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All Trussed up and nowhere to go – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,163
edited December 2022 in General
imageAll Trussed up and nowhere to go – politicalbetting.com

Recently I worked out I had a relationship that lasted substantially fewer days than the premiership of Liz Truss, once I overcame the embarrassment of having such a short relationship I started to wonder what the future would hold for Liz Truss, the country’s shortest serving Prime Minister.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022

    The Wellcome Trust news is batshit.
    Every angle of it, including the pathetic mewling on Twitter.

    ”The very fact that these items have ended up in one place, the story we told was that of a man with enormous wealth, power and privilege,” the museum said on Twitter.

    That train of thought leads to the closure of most the great museums on Earth.

    Melanie Keen should lose her job. Possibly sectioned.

    So she can spend more time destroying, I mean decolonising, the government art collection....
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    This is why I can't get all revved up about how wokeism is this incredibly dangerous thing. It's clearly some silly bollocks but almost everyone can see what silly bollocks it is. When it's pushed in schools, parents react and things move in the opposite direction. When museums try to push a woke agenda, they struggle, go bankrupt and get taken over. When big public protests happen, right wing governments get elected.

    In terms of actual dangerous things, it's far worse that autocratic governments interfere in Western elections. That political debate on major social networks can be bought up by the richest billionaire who censors criticism of himself. That the world economy is increasingly a new gilded age of monopolies that can bend governments to their preferred policies. Even if we are talking abstract ideological agendas, it's more concerning that the world's biggest movie franchise is constantly pushing the military-industrial complex as heroes.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    I went to the Wellcome Collection yesterday. I'll be honest, I find it hard to get worked up about museums, but I would like to see the curator resign as she clearly is taking tainted money.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I can’t imagine the Wellcome decision will simply stand.

    If Ms Keen had an ounce of smarts she would have conduced some ersatz consultation with “local community representatives” and then announced the exhibition would be “revised to make sense for the world of 2022”.

    By suddenly closing it and posting a set of ideologically bankrupt gibberish on Twitter, she will bring about an inevitable backlash.
  • A museum in London is closing one of its main exhibitions following concerns over "racist, sexist and ableist theories and language".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63772864

    Always find it interesting that these claims will go unchallenged / unexplored...for instance who was concerned? How widespread?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited November 2022
    What is “ableist theory and language”?

    I trust the Wellcome Trust is fully accessible to wheelchairs.
  • I can’t imagine the Wellcome decision will simply stand.

    If Ms Keen had an ounce of smarts she would have conduced some ersatz consultation with “local community representatives” and then announced the exhibition would be “revised to make sense for the world of 2022”.

    By suddenly closing it and posting a set of ideologically bankrupt gibberish on Twitter, she will bring about an inevitable backlash.

    "The Wellcome Collection's website says a new exhibition featuring health stories of people who have been previously marginalised or even erased from museums will be unveiled in the coming years."
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    What about the thread lead?

    The betting market is that Truss is almost certain to chuck in the towel?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited November 2022

    I can’t imagine the Wellcome decision will simply stand.

    If Ms Keen had an ounce of smarts she would have conduced some ersatz consultation with “local community representatives” and then announced the exhibition would be “revised to make sense for the world of 2022”.

    By suddenly closing it and posting a set of ideologically bankrupt gibberish on Twitter, she will bring about an inevitable backlash.

    "The Wellcome Collection's website says a new exhibition featuring health stories of people who have been previously marginalised or even erased from museums will be unveiled in the coming years."
    “In the coming years” = “we just made this up”.

    They may as well close now.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648

    What is “ableist theory and language”?

    It’s a good thing the culture war is just a figment of the right’s imagination.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    WillG said:

    This is why I can't get all revved up about how wokeism is this incredibly dangerous thing. It's clearly some silly bollocks but almost everyone can see what silly bollocks it is. When it's pushed in schools, parents react and things move in the opposite direction. When museums try to push a woke agenda, they struggle, go bankrupt and get taken over. When big public protests happen, right wing governments get elected.

    In terms of actual dangerous things, it's far worse that autocratic governments interfere in Western elections. That political debate on major social networks can be bought up by the richest billionaire who censors criticism of himself. That the world economy is increasingly a new gilded age of monopolies that can bend governments to their preferred policies. Even if we are talking abstract ideological agendas, it's more concerning that the world's biggest movie franchise is constantly pushing the military-industrial complex as heroes.

    But she won't get fired. The Woke Establishment will close ranks and tell her she's "brave". It's happening right now on Twitter

    I'll be surprised if this decision is reversed, we shall see. It's not even been DEBATED

    And this is the point, and this is one of many reasons why Wokeness is truly dangerous. It does not believe there is an argument, it is entirely in the right, anything they want to cancel must be cancelled. Simple as. There is never nuance, never room for compromise. The statues must be thrown in the river

    And the Wokerati are everywhere now. If you check the other workers at Wellcome - they are all on Twitter - they are all openly "left wing" "she/her" "they/them" - the Woke have entirely captured this one institution, as they are capturing so many institutions - in the arts, law, education, universities, charities, media, corporations. And their aim is quite open: to impose one jaundiced strangulated view of our culture and history: that it is irredeemably awful, that all; we did was destroy and colonise, and that white people are intrinsically racist and must always be ashamed

  • TresTres Posts: 2,696
    v strong old man waving at clouds vibe in this thread
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,765
    IanB2 said:

    What about the thread lead?

    The betting market is that Truss is almost certain to chuck in the towel?

    I would have guessed that she'd carry on, but an unbettable market due to the certain insider knowledge.

    (I can't imagine what else she'll do - she must be almost unemployable)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Tres said:

    v strong old man waving at clouds vibe in this thread

    Actually no.

    This is not @Casino_Royale getting upset that a bookshop has opened in the Winersh Triangle.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    WillG said:

    This is why I can't get all revved up about how wokeism is this incredibly dangerous thing. It's clearly some silly bollocks but almost everyone can see what silly bollocks it is. When it's pushed in schools, parents react and things move in the opposite direction. When museums try to push a woke agenda, they struggle, go bankrupt and get taken over. When big public protests happen, right wing governments get elected.

    In terms of actual dangerous things, it's far worse that autocratic governments interfere in Western elections. That political debate on major social networks can be bought up by the richest billionaire who censors criticism of himself. That the world economy is increasingly a new gilded age of monopolies that can bend governments to their preferred policies. Even if we are talking abstract ideological agendas, it's more concerning that the world's biggest movie franchise is constantly pushing the military-industrial complex as heroes.

    Though there is another point.

    In the run up to the Ukrainian war, we were discussing empires. When I pointed out that the Russian and Chinese states were and are explicit empires, doing the bad things that empires do, various people of the progressive bent, here, tried to tell me that

    - they can’t be
    - that’s what aboutery for the British Empire
    - it’s hypocritical

    The annihilation of cultures (such as Tibetan) in the modern Chinese empire is beyond dispute. As is their promulgation of a weird, plastic fake version of Han culture as the uniform culture of all China.

    The Russian attempted destruction of Ukraine as a culture is also now beyond doubt.

    The Chinese and Russian propaganda behind this is extremely…. Gammon - literally, the natives are grateful for everything we do. Pure Sanders of The River - if Sanders recreationally massacred the locals on occasion.

    Woke often seems to be a new narrative combined with shut up about anything else.

    It is the anything else that needs looking at - otherwise you get people telling lies about the Aztecs really being humanitarians.
  • Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    And predictably virtue signalling with a mask in the old profile pic....
  • In a parallel universe the Caribs formed agricultural cooperatives to send us fair trade sugar in exchange for financial services.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    Morocco score (again).....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,962
    Truss could try reality TV, I'm a Celeb has worked for Hancock
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    edited November 2022

    What is “ableist theory and language”?

    I trust the Wellcome Trust is fully accessible to wheelchairs.

    It’s the theory that emphasis on medicine is all about white supremacy and celebrating the idea of being perfectly well. Which is then pejorative to sick people.

    So Joseph Bazelgette building the sewers of London was a macro aggression against those dying of cholera.
  • Perhaps they could replace Medicine Man exhibition with something from Byzantine Empire.....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    And predictably virtue signalling with a mask in the old profile pic....
    You don’t know that’s old.
    She might live like that now.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    it's also pure topsy-turvy 1984

    Appointing museum curators who openly hate museums and want to close museums down

    DOWN WITH ART AND LEARNING. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    And predictably virtue signalling with a mask in the old profile pic....
    I went to the National Maritime Museum in Falmouth in June. It had a small exhibit asking the questions on what museums should be for: to right past injustices? to fight for equality? to educate peopleon issues like climate change?
    No suggestion was given about providing and informatuve and enjoyable destination for paying customers to visit, thereby ensuring the ongoing viability of the museum.
    And it made me realise what a long time it was since I'd been to a museum and not felt hectored. Almost every museum you visit will try to crowbar in some fashionable cause.
    Happily, in October, I visited the camera obscura and optical illusion museum in Edinburgh. Fucking brilliant. Entirely focused on providing an enjoyable experience for visitors. And consequently, almost solidly booked out. You couldn't just turn up, you had to book in advance.
    I even came out wondering whether it was, in fact, a real museum, given that I was enjoying myself. But it clearly was. You were informed and engaged and learned stuff. You just weren't invited to feel bad while you did it.
    Actually, I've just thought of another one which falls into that category: the National Railway Museum in York (which you're also well advised to book ahead for).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    And predictably virtue signalling with a mask in the old profile pic....
    I went to the National Maritime Museum in Falmouth in June. It had a small exhibit asking the questions on what museums should be for: to right past injustices? to fight for equality? to educate peopleon issues like climate change?
    No suggestion was given about providing and informatuve and enjoyable destination for paying customers to visit, thereby ensuring the ongoing viability of the museum.
    And it made me realise what a long time it was since I'd been to a museum and not felt hectored. Almost every museum you visit will try to crowbar in some fashionable cause.
    Happily, in October, I visited the camera obscura and optical illusion museum in Edinburgh. Fucking brilliant. Entirely focused on providing an enjoyable experience for visitors. And consequently, almost solidly booked out. You couldn't just turn up, you had to book in advance.
    I even came out wondering whether it was, in fact, a real museum, given that I was enjoying myself. But it clearly was. You were informed and engaged and learned stuff. You just weren't invited to feel bad while you did it.
    Actually, I've just thought of another one which falls into that category: the National Railway Museum in York (which you're also well advised to book ahead for).
    You see your problem is you are clearly stuck in the mindset of a colonial oppressor....indoctrinated with racist, sexist and ableist views.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    Blooming heck Morocco.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Blooming heck Morocco.

    Belgium aging squad weren't exactly great against Canada the other day.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Should a relationship that lasted a shorter time than Truss's premiership be classed as 'casual'? It certainly seems pretty fleeting. I suppose it's pretty commonplace these days, but I wonder whether most people would publicise it prominently on the Internet.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    HYUFD said:

    Truss could try reality TV, I'm a Celeb has worked for Hancock

    While Hancock is a buffoon, he is a buffoon within the bounds of normality. His buffoonery is the sort to evoke eye-rolling, rather than nervously edging away. I'm not sure Truss could carry off the 'she's human after all' schtick.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404

    dixiedean said:

    Blooming heck Morocco.

    Belgium aging squad weren't exactly great against Canada the other day.
    Knockout game with Croatia now.
    3rd v 2nd last time.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316

    WillG said:

    This is why I can't get all revved up about how wokeism is this incredibly dangerous thing. It's clearly some silly bollocks but almost everyone can see what silly bollocks it is. When it's pushed in schools, parents react and things move in the opposite direction. When museums try to push a woke agenda, they struggle, go bankrupt and get taken over. When big public protests happen, right wing governments get elected.

    In terms of actual dangerous things, it's far worse that autocratic governments interfere in Western elections. That political debate on major social networks can be bought up by the richest billionaire who censors criticism of himself. That the world economy is increasingly a new gilded age of monopolies that can bend governments to their preferred policies. Even if we are talking abstract ideological agendas, it's more concerning that the world's biggest movie franchise is constantly pushing the military-industrial complex as heroes.

    Though there is another point.

    In the run up to the Ukrainian war, we were discussing empires. When I pointed out that the Russian and Chinese states were and are explicit empires, doing the bad things that empires do, various people of the progressive bent, here, tried to tell me that

    - they can’t be
    - that’s what aboutery for the British Empire
    - it’s hypocritical

    The annihilation of cultures (such as Tibetan) in the modern Chinese empire is beyond dispute. As is their promulgation of a weird, plastic fake version of Han culture as the uniform culture of all China.

    The Russian attempted destruction of Ukraine as a culture is also now beyond doubt.

    The Chinese and Russian propaganda behind this is extremely…. Gammon - literally, the natives are grateful for everything we do. Pure Sanders of The River - if Sanders recreationally massacred the locals on occasion.

    Woke often seems to be a new narrative combined with shut up about anything else.

    It is the anything else that needs looking at - otherwise you get people telling lies about the Aztecs really being humanitarians.
    You can definitely split the socialist left according to their response to the war in Ukraine. Russia & China are both expanionist empires that operate under a hegemonising model of empire (everyone we conquor gets to become Russian / Chinese and like it!). If you refuse to recognise this then you are divorcing yourself from reality.

    Those on the left who took Russia’s side purely out of some contrarian anti-US imperialism position get the scorn they deserve.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,765
    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    A friend of mine is a pretty senior guy in the widget manufacturing world. He's recently been for a couple of interviews, and apparently the main theme of the questioning is not how he'll get tip top widgets produced, but rather how he'll ensure woke stuff. Can you give examples as to how you've promoted equality? What would be your strategy to ensure minorities are represented in your team? It's no longer good enough to be entirely fair and unbiased, you now have to demonstrate that you've somehow fought a war against perhaps yours and others views to ensure this.
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Blooming heck Morocco.

    Belgium aging squad weren't exactly great against Canada the other day.
    Knockout game with Croatia now.
    3rd v 2nd last time.
    Another team with a heavy reliance of players nearing the use of zimmer frames....
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    I am concerned that history, which is what museums should be presenting and explaining, is being destroyed by the “Woke”.

    I am much more concerned that misogynistic men are still abusing innocent and vulnerable women.

    I know which one I want to see resolved first.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    A friend of mine is a pretty senior guy in the widget manufacturing world. He's recently been for a couple of interviews, and apparently the main theme of the questioning is not how he'll get tip top widgets produced, but rather how he'll ensure woke stuff. Can you give examples as to how you've promoted equality? What would be your strategy to ensure minorities are represented in your team? It's no longer good enough to be entirely fair and unbiased, you now have to demonstrate that you've somehow fought a war against perhaps yours and others views to ensure this.
    That's different. It's basic legal and personnel stuff, not woke, tbf.

    For all I know they thought his widgets were great but wanted to probe in other areas.

  • Leon said:

    WillG said:

    This is why I can't get all revved up about how wokeism is this incredibly dangerous thing. It's clearly some silly bollocks but almost everyone can see what silly bollocks it is. When it's pushed in schools, parents react and things move in the opposite direction. When museums try to push a woke agenda, they struggle, go bankrupt and get taken over. When big public protests happen, right wing governments get elected.

    In terms of actual dangerous things, it's far worse that autocratic governments interfere in Western elections. That political debate on major social networks can be bought up by the richest billionaire who censors criticism of himself. That the world economy is increasingly a new gilded age of monopolies that can bend governments to their preferred policies. Even if we are talking abstract ideological agendas, it's more concerning that the world's biggest movie franchise is constantly pushing the military-industrial complex as heroes.

    But she won't get fired. The Woke Establishment will close ranks and tell her she's "brave". It's happening right now on Twitter

    I'll be surprised if this decision is reversed, we shall see. It's not even been DEBATED

    And this is the point, and this is one of many reasons why Wokeness is truly dangerous. It does not believe there is an argument, it is entirely in the right, anything they want to cancel must be cancelled. Simple as. There is never nuance, never room for compromise. The statues must be thrown in the river

    And the Wokerati are everywhere now. If you check the other workers at Wellcome - they are all on Twitter - they are all openly "left wing" "she/her" "they/them" - the Woke have entirely captured this one institution, as they are capturing so many institutions - in the arts, law, education, universities, charities, media, corporations. And their aim is quite open: to impose one jaundiced strangulated view of our culture and history: that it is irredeemably awful, that all; we did was destroy and colonise, and that white people are intrinsically racist and must always be ashamed

    "She/her" is woke?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Phil said:

    WillG said:

    This is why I can't get all revved up about how wokeism is this incredibly dangerous thing. It's clearly some silly bollocks but almost everyone can see what silly bollocks it is. When it's pushed in schools, parents react and things move in the opposite direction. When museums try to push a woke agenda, they struggle, go bankrupt and get taken over. When big public protests happen, right wing governments get elected.

    In terms of actual dangerous things, it's far worse that autocratic governments interfere in Western elections. That political debate on major social networks can be bought up by the richest billionaire who censors criticism of himself. That the world economy is increasingly a new gilded age of monopolies that can bend governments to their preferred policies. Even if we are talking abstract ideological agendas, it's more concerning that the world's biggest movie franchise is constantly pushing the military-industrial complex as heroes.

    Though there is another point.

    In the run up to the Ukrainian war, we were discussing empires. When I pointed out that the Russian and Chinese states were and are explicit empires, doing the bad things that empires do, various people of the progressive bent, here, tried to tell me that

    - they can’t be
    - that’s what aboutery for the British Empire
    - it’s hypocritical

    The annihilation of cultures (such as Tibetan) in the modern Chinese empire is beyond dispute. As is their promulgation of a weird, plastic fake version of Han culture as the uniform culture of all China.

    The Russian attempted destruction of Ukraine as a culture is also now beyond doubt.

    The Chinese and Russian propaganda behind this is extremely…. Gammon - literally, the natives are grateful for everything we do. Pure Sanders of The River - if Sanders recreationally massacred the locals on occasion.

    Woke often seems to be a new narrative combined with shut up about anything else.

    It is the anything else that needs looking at - otherwise you get people telling lies about the Aztecs really being humanitarians.
    You can definitely split the socialist left according to their response to the war in Ukraine. Russia & China are both expanionist empires that operate under a hegemonising model of empire (everyone we conquor gets to become Russian / Chinese and like it!). If you refuse to recognise this then you are divorcing yourself from reality.

    Those on the left who took Russia’s side purely out of some contrarian anti-US imperialism position get the scorn they deserve.
    The local angry man with bicycle clips has the usual Corbynite stall on the high street. Highlights include placards against the history of slavery in the U.K. and placards in support of Begum.

    Who participated in actual slavery.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Cookie said:


    And it made me realise what a long time it was since I'd been to a museum and not felt hectored.

    I suppose that could be determined only with the help of a list of the museums you'd been to, together with a checklist of which ones you felt had "hectored" you and which hadn't - together with examples of what you counted as "hectoring".

    To describe a small exhibit asking you your opinions about the purpose of museums as "hectoring" sounds a bit odd to me. Your comment gives the impression that you usually feel "hectored" when visiting museums. Can you give us any more convincing examples?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited November 2022
    Just had a real life experience with a unprompted racist taxi driver going on about the immigrants, like in the stories. Feels like a rite of passage.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Chris said:

    Should a relationship that lasted a shorter time than Truss's premiership be classed as 'casual'? It certainly seems pretty fleeting. I suppose it's pretty commonplace these days, but I wonder whether most people would publicise it prominently on the Internet.

    The political equivalent of a one night stand?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    A friend of mine is a pretty senior guy in the widget manufacturing world. He's recently been for a couple of interviews, and apparently the main theme of the questioning is not how he'll get tip top widgets produced, but rather how he'll ensure woke stuff. Can you give examples as to how you've promoted equality? What would be your strategy to ensure minorities are represented in your team? It's no longer good enough to be entirely fair and unbiased, you now have to demonstrate that you've somehow fought a war against perhaps yours and others views to ensure this.
    That's different. It's basic legal and personnel stuff, not woke, tbf.

    For all I know they thought his widgets were great but wanted to probe in other areas.

    It's not basic legal and personnel stuff, FFS

    You just don't get it. You haven't encountered Wokeness so you don't see how insidious, dispiriting and dangerous it can be

    At least the Wellcome bollocks has shone a light
  • kle4 said:

    Just had a real life experience with a unprompted racist taxi driver going on about the immigrants, like in the stories. Feels like a rite of passage.

    Were they Albanian?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    A friend of mine is a pretty senior guy in the widget manufacturing world. He's recently been for a couple of interviews, and apparently the main theme of the questioning is not how he'll get tip top widgets produced, but rather how he'll ensure woke stuff. Can you give examples as to how you've promoted equality? What would be your strategy to ensure minorities are represented in your team? It's no longer good enough to be entirely fair and unbiased, you now have to demonstrate that you've somehow fought a war against perhaps yours and others views to ensure this.
    The true significance of Musk's takeover of Twitter may be that it represents a revolt against the culture of turning corporations into ideological vehicles.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    What's Twitter?

    At the Surrealist exhibition at Tate Modern earlier this year (real life, not online), the info boards said the most ridiculous things - and they said them over and over again in an "I'm NOT LYING TO YOU" fashion - e.g. when André Breton cooperated with artists from e.g. Haiti or Africa, they said he didn't appropriate their outlook, or that perhaps he did appropriate their outlook to some extent but you've got to make your own mind up about that, and that was a different epoch from today's epoch of such huge respect for everything (especially if it's got a $ sign in front of it), blah blah F***ING blah. Talk about being patronising towards black people in the third world, because that's exactly what this was. Anybody who actually knows anything about Breton knows that he was an anti-colonialist all his life (since long before the Manifesto of the 121), absolutely not a racist of any kind, and the whole reason he got on well with artists in Haiti and Africa wasn't that he was appropriating anything but because he found that his outlook had something in COMMON with theirs, with regard to the unconscious. And why shouldn't it have? Two people both interested in something have a good natter, they learn from each other, they tell each other about what they themselves have been doing, maybe find something to cooperate on. There's no f***ing mystery there. The reason they wrote sh*t on those boards was because they felt they had to. I got the feeling they kinda assumed Breton was a white boy from a colonial mother country, with all the prejudices that for SOME people come with that, talking to black descendants of slaves, and that the colonial-colonised dichotomy must have been either dominant in his mind or determinant of most of his behaviour, or both, when, guess what, it wasn't. Not everyone from a colonial mother country only took their Klan robes off five minutes ago because they noticed the red light above the camera.

    In short, there's a heck of a lot of racism hiding behind the "woke" cloak.

    (I realise Breton also dealt in art and that he ran a gallery, but that seriously isn't something for the bods at TM to criticise, and it's got little to do with most of the art he actually made.)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    A friend of mine is a pretty senior guy in the widget manufacturing world. He's recently been for a couple of interviews, and apparently the main theme of the questioning is not how he'll get tip top widgets produced, but rather how he'll ensure woke stuff. Can you give examples as to how you've promoted equality? What would be your strategy to ensure minorities are represented in your team? It's no longer good enough to be entirely fair and unbiased, you now have to demonstrate that you've somehow fought a war against perhaps yours and others views to ensure this.
    But of course it's so easy to represent the legal requirements against unlawful discrimination as something to do with this mysterious and undefined bogey-man of "woke".

    "Can you demonstrate you have procedures in place to ensure there is no unlawful discrimination against ethnic minorities" can so easily be portrayed as widget manufacturers being coerced into a "war on woke" ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    kle4 said:

    Just had a real life experience with a unprompted racist taxi driver going on about the immigrants, like in the stories. Feels like a rite of passage.

    Were they Albanian?
    Did you do the correct thing - get his number and report him to the cab licensing people?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    A friend of mine is a pretty senior guy in the widget manufacturing world. He's recently been for a couple of interviews, and apparently the main theme of the questioning is not how he'll get tip top widgets produced, but rather how he'll ensure woke stuff. Can you give examples as to how you've promoted equality? What would be your strategy to ensure minorities are represented in your team? It's no longer good enough to be entirely fair and unbiased, you now have to demonstrate that you've somehow fought a war against perhaps yours and others views to ensure this.
    The true significance of Musk's takeover of Twitter may be that it represents a revolt against the culture of turning corporations into ideological vehicles.
    By turning Twitter into an ideological vehicle?
    Interesting counter intuitive strategy.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    What is “ableist theory and language”?

    I trust the Wellcome Trust is fully accessible to wheelchairs.

    It’s the theory that emphasis on medicine is all about white supremacy and celebrating the idea of being perfectly well. Which is then pejorative to sick people.

    So Joseph Bazelgette building the sewers of London was a macro aggression against those dying of cholera.
    Was the Wellcome Trust behind the promotion of the concept of "wellness", "well man", "well woman", "well baby", etc.? It smells as though that all came from their propaganda department, but I've never managed to pin it down.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    dixiedean said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    A friend of mine is a pretty senior guy in the widget manufacturing world. He's recently been for a couple of interviews, and apparently the main theme of the questioning is not how he'll get tip top widgets produced, but rather how he'll ensure woke stuff. Can you give examples as to how you've promoted equality? What would be your strategy to ensure minorities are represented in your team? It's no longer good enough to be entirely fair and unbiased, you now have to demonstrate that you've somehow fought a war against perhaps yours and others views to ensure this.
    The true significance of Musk's takeover of Twitter may be that it represents a revolt against the culture of turning corporations into ideological vehicles.
    By turning Twitter into an ideological vehicle?
    Interesting counter intuitive strategy.
    The complaints are that not enough people and tweets are being banned, not that he is censoring woke or other groups.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    Grow up.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    What does... "dismantle white infrastructure" mean... if it doesn't mean dismantling every western institution - in the arts, media, science, academe, law, politics - as we know them?

    DISMANTLE WHITE INFRASTRUCTURE
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    A friend of mine is a pretty senior guy in the widget manufacturing world. He's recently been for a couple of interviews, and apparently the main theme of the questioning is not how he'll get tip top widgets produced, but rather how he'll ensure woke stuff. Can you give examples as to how you've promoted equality? What would be your strategy to ensure minorities are represented in your team? It's no longer good enough to be entirely fair and unbiased, you now have to demonstrate that you've somehow fought a war against perhaps yours and others views to ensure this.
    That's different. It's basic legal and personnel stuff, not woke, tbf.

    For all I know they thought his widgets were great but wanted to probe in other areas.

    It's not basic legal and personnel stuff, FFS

    You just don't get it. You haven't encountered Wokeness so you don't see how insidious, dispiriting and dangerous it can be.
    If you want to convince anyone, be more specific, and demonstrate that what you're complaining about is something more than the legal prohibitions against racial and other forms of discrimination.

    From your posts, I can very easily believe that legal prohibitions against discrimination on the grounds of race, sex, sexual preferences and so on will rankle with you, and you will try to portray them at every opportunity as "woke". Protestations about "woke" are a very easy and lazy way of bigots trying to make their odious views less unacceptable.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    DJ41 said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    What's Twitter?

    At the Surrealist exhibition at Tate Modern earlier this year (real life, not online), the info boards said the most ridiculous things - and they said them over and over again in an "I'm NOT LYING TO YOU" fashion - e.g. when André Breton cooperated with artists from e.g. Haiti or Africa, they said he didn't appropriate their outlook, or that perhaps he did appropriate their outlook to some extent but you've got to make your own mind up about that, and that was a different epoch from today's epoch of such huge respect for everything (especially if it's got a $ sign in front of it), blah blah F***ING blah. Talk about being patronising towards black people in the third world, because that's exactly what this was. Anybody who actually knows anything about Breton knows that he was an anti-colonialist all his life (since long before the Manifesto of the 121), absolutely not a racist of any kind, and the whole reason he got on well with artists in Haiti and Africa wasn't that he was appropriating anything but because he found that his outlook had something in COMMON with theirs, with regard to the unconscious. And why shouldn't it have? Two people both interested in something have a good natter, they learn from each other, they tell each other about what they themselves have been doing, maybe find something to cooperate on. There's no f***ing mystery there. The reason they wrote sh*t on those boards was because they felt they had to. I got the feeling they kinda assumed Breton was a white boy from a colonial mother country, with all the prejudices that for SOME people come with that, talking to black descendants of slaves, and that the colonial-colonised dichotomy must have been either dominant in his mind or determinant of most of his behaviour, or both, when, guess what, it wasn't. Not everyone from a colonial mother country only took their Klan robes off five minutes ago because they noticed the red light above the camera.

    In short, there's a heck of a lot of racism hiding behind the "woke" cloak.

    (I realise Breton also dealt in art and that he ran a gallery, but that seriously isn't something for the bods at TM to criticise, and it's got little to do with most of the art he actually made.)
    The impression I get from your story is a little different. Of course Breton was a real Communist, and if he weren't (say if he were Ernst and had done the same), no doubt they would be dumping on him like any other white man.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    A friend of mine is a pretty senior guy in the widget manufacturing world. He's recently been for a couple of interviews, and apparently the main theme of the questioning is not how he'll get tip top widgets produced, but rather how he'll ensure woke stuff. Can you give examples as to how you've promoted equality? What would be your strategy to ensure minorities are represented in your team? It's no longer good enough to be entirely fair and unbiased, you now have to demonstrate that you've somehow fought a war against perhaps yours and others views to ensure this.
    That's different. It's basic legal and personnel stuff, not woke, tbf.

    For all I know they thought his widgets were great but wanted to probe in other areas.

    It's not basic legal and personnel stuff, FFS

    You just don't get it. You haven't encountered Wokeness so you don't see how insidious, dispiriting and dangerous it can be.
    If you want to convince anyone, be more specific, and demonstrate that what you're complaining about is something more than the legal prohibitions against racial and other forms of discrimination.

    From your posts, I can very easily believe that legal prohibitions against discrimination on the grounds of race, sex, sexual preferences and so on will rankle with you, and you will try to portray them at every opportunity as "woke". Protestations about "woke" are a very easy and lazy way of bigots trying to make their odious views less unacceptable.
    We have an example of dangerous and insidious Wokeness right here. The lunatics at the Wellcome Collection who want to "dismantle white infrastructure" - which means suddenly closing the core of their own museum
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    Grow up.
    You don't really have interesting or original thoughts, do you?
  • Tres said:

    v strong old man waving at clouds vibe in this thread

    The musk is strong.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    A friend of mine is a pretty senior guy in the widget manufacturing world. He's recently been for a couple of interviews, and apparently the main theme of the questioning is not how he'll get tip top widgets produced, but rather how he'll ensure woke stuff. Can you give examples as to how you've promoted equality? What would be your strategy to ensure minorities are represented in your team? It's no longer good enough to be entirely fair and unbiased, you now have to demonstrate that you've somehow fought a war against perhaps yours and others views to ensure this.
    That's different. It's basic legal and personnel stuff, not woke, tbf.

    For all I know they thought his widgets were great but wanted to probe in other areas.

    It's not basic legal and personnel stuff, FFS

    You just don't get it. You haven't encountered Wokeness so you don't see how insidious, dispiriting and dangerous it can be

    At least the Wellcome bollocks has shone a light
    You don't do that stuff - you get clobbered. Like the organizations which were being discussed earlier and yesterday.

    Like if you don't do the accountancy or the costing or the factory environment (for the widgets as much as for the staff).
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,837
    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    He was by far the least talented of the brothers.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    Even GPT-3, no GPT-2, perhaps even GPT-1 could have written a better passage of prose to explain how Marx was right and everybody else was a racist for that exhibit.....
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,230
    Gosh, this Wellcome Trust announcement has turned this place into a bit of an echo chamber this afternoon.

    It might be in part because it does seem like an odd decision, hard to justify in the terms it has been presented, and plenty of people (like me) aren't quite sure how to react yet. I want to know a bit more about why they've taken this decision, and as a result am holding off sharing an opinion yet.

    I'd find this blog a more valuable read this afternoon if I thought there was a chance of reasoned, considered responses from those who are concerned about this decision and its cultural impact, rather than a kneejerk scream of WOKE!!

    (Honourable exception made for @Fairliered's comment - I thought you summed it up perfectly!)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
  • I have a bad cold and had a weird fever dream featuring Leon last night. First he was berating me on Bloomberg, lots of random capitalisation. Then we met in person. I don't remember exactly what occurred but I think it featured a lot of drinking and shouting on his part. Very strange.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022
    maxh said:

    Gosh, this Wellcome Trust announcement has turned this place into a bit of an echo chamber this afternoon.

    It might be in part because it does seem like an odd decision, hard to justify in the terms it has been presented, and plenty of people (like me) aren't quite sure how to react yet. I want to know a bit more about why they've taken this decision, and as a result am holding off sharing an opinion yet.

    I'd find this blog a more valuable read this afternoon if I thought there was a chance of reasoned, considered responses from those who are concerned about this decision and its cultural impact, rather than a kneejerk scream of WOKE!!

    (Honourable exception made for @Fairliered's comment - I thought you summed it up perfectly!)

    You can read their reasoning here...its pretty unequivocal. The whole collection is so racist and a display of white privilege, we just can't continue promoting it.

    https://twitter.com/ExploreWellcome/status/1596091211844313088
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Even GPT-3, no GPT-2, perhaps even GPT-1 could have written a better passage of prose to explain how Marx was right and everybody else was a racist for that exhibit.....

    Mind you, Marx was a white man who provided the theory used to justify a large number of genocides. Including quite a number of non-white people.

    Shouldn’t he be cancelled?
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    Vandals caught on camera in Oxford?

    Or people who live and work somewhere dare to take action against a measure that the authorities opposed on them?

    That's not vandalism.

    Perhaps turning the whole street into a prison is the solution.

    Meanwhile, on the very same day, the British media gleefully report popular protests against lockdown in faraway China, mostly framing them as protests against the "zero covid policy".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326

    I have a bad cold and had a weird fever dream featuring Leon last night. First he was berating me on Bloomberg, lots of random capitalisation. Then we met in person. I don't remember exactly what occurred but I think it featured a lot of drinking and shouting on his part. Very strange.

    *proud*
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    maxh said:

    Gosh, this Wellcome Trust announcement has turned this place into a bit of an echo chamber this afternoon.

    It might be in part because it does seem like an odd decision, hard to justify in the terms it has been presented, and plenty of people (like me) aren't quite sure how to react yet. I want to know a bit more about why they've taken this decision, and as a result am holding off sharing an opinion yet.

    I'd find this blog a more valuable read this afternoon if I thought there was a chance of reasoned, considered responses from those who are concerned about this decision and its cultural impact, rather than a kneejerk scream of WOKE!!

    (Honourable exception made for @Fairliered's comment - I thought you summed it up perfectly!)

    Also: it's quite normal for museums to close galleries for redisplay. Which inherently means taqking the objects therein off display. Happens all the time, as part of their progressive renewal. I can remember the arguments about such things back in the 1970s ...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited November 2022

    Even GPT-3, no GPT-2, perhaps even GPT-1 could have written a better passage of prose to explain how Marx was right and everybody else was a racist for that exhibit.....

    Mind you, Marx was a white man who provided the theory used to justify a large number of genocides. Including quite a number of non-white people.

    Shouldn’t he be cancelled?
    Well he was said plenty of stuff that one might consider antisemitic, but free pass there, while other individuals, who after digging through millions of words they wrote, we have found one or two iffy sentences, they absolutely must be cancelled.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited November 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
  • Paging Leon....

    How the West handed classical music over to China – and may not get it back

    The sad truth is that among Britain’s upper echelons, the situation is very different from that of half a century ago. Now, classical music and opera arouse too much embarrassment or (worse) resentment and suspicion. An insider privy to the recent ACE funding talks tells me that there was palpable resentment towards Glyndebourne, Opera North and many orchestras. Furthermore, in the eyes of some, classical music and opera bear an ancestral guilt. They are fruits of the sins of Western society: its patriarchal and colonial mindset. The rules of tonal harmony are, these critics say, as oppressive as British rule in India, and have to be dismantled – witness the recent calls in universities to “decolonise” the music curriculum.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/classical-music/how-west-handed-classical-music-china-may-not-get-back/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    Even GPT-3, no GPT-2, perhaps even GPT-1 could have written a better passage of prose to explain how Marx was right and everybody else was a racist for that exhibit.....

    Mind you, Marx was a white man who provided the theory used to justify a large number of genocides. Including quite a number of non-white people.

    Shouldn’t he be cancelled?
    Well he was also antisemite, but that also gets glossed over, while other individuals who after digging through millions of words they wrote, we have found one or two iffy sentences have to get canned.
    Which brings us to another interesting effect of editing the past of annoying things (statues and exhibits)

    Racist writers tend not to be consistently and 100% racist all the time. Case in point - Kipling. I have, somewhere, a complete works if I purchased in a second hand bookshop. His poetry and prose all mingled together.

    In one story, he describes the inner thoughts and ideas of a poor Indian orphan girl with devastating humanity.

    Practically over the page is an essay he wrote about going on patrol with the police in an Indian city. When they come across an English woman married to an Indian, his rant reads exactly like an article in Der Sturmer - all about race defilement.

    The essay is no longer published. I have encountered people who don’t believe Kipling was racist because they have never read anything racist by him.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    And predictably virtue signalling with a mask in the old profile pic....
    I went to the National Maritime Museum in Falmouth in June. It had a small exhibit asking the questions on what museums should be for: to right past injustices? to fight for equality? to educate peopleon issues like climate change?
    No suggestion was given about providing and informatuve and enjoyable destination for paying customers to visit, thereby ensuring the ongoing viability of the museum.
    And it made me realise what a long time it was since I'd been to a museum and not felt hectored. Almost every museum you visit will try to crowbar in some fashionable cause.
    Happily, in October, I visited the camera obscura and optical illusion museum in Edinburgh. Fucking brilliant. Entirely focused on providing an enjoyable experience for visitors. And consequently, almost solidly booked out. You couldn't just turn up, you had to book in advance.
    I even came out wondering whether it was, in fact, a real museum, given that I was enjoying myself. But it clearly was. You were informed and engaged and learned stuff. You just weren't invited to feel bad while you did it.
    Actually, I've just thought of another one which falls into that category: the National Railway Museum in York (which you're also well advised to book ahead for).
    I think the National Maritime Museum in Falmouth may have been the one I visited about 15 years ago and it had an entire top floor devoted to pushing greenwash, and buttons you could press at the end to answer the question "Do you believe the climate is changing because of human activity?" Then if you pushed the "No" button they informed you that David Attenborough thought the answer was "Yes" and now that you're aware of what he thinks do you still want to answer "No". It really was as crude as that. Very few visitors even bothered doing that floor.

    The Science Museum in London around the same time had a hands-on interactive machine in the cafe area where you could save babies by vaccinating them...quick, there's an ill baby you haven't vaccinated...oh dear, even more babies are getting ill now...quick, vaccinate them fast! Inject! Inject! My recollection is that may have had something to do with Wellcome.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,837
    DJ41 said:

    Vandals caught on camera in Oxford?

    Or people who live and work somewhere dare to take action against a measure that the authorities opposed on them?

    That's not vandalism.

    Perhaps turning the whole street into a prison is the solution.

    Meanwhile, on the very same day, the British media gleefully report popular protests against lockdown in faraway China, mostly framing them as protests against the "zero covid policy".

    I suppose the real question for you is:

    Would you rather live in Oxford or China?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    Somebody obviously used the arty bollocks gibberish generator -

    https://www.artybollocks.com/generator.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    DJ41 said:

    Vandals caught on camera in Oxford?

    Or people who live and work somewhere dare to take action against a measure that the authorities opposed on them?

    That's not vandalism.

    Perhaps turning the whole street into a prison is the solution.

    Meanwhile, on the very same day, the British media gleefully report popular protests against lockdown in faraway China, mostly framing them as protests against the "zero covid policy".

    I suppose the real question for you is:

    Would you rather live in Oxford or China?
    The insane traffic policies of Oxford city council make Xi’s COVID policies look rational and sensible.

    They make things worse for buses and cyclists then claim it’s Green because it fucks up car drivers as well.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Some of whose mates used to call him "Mohr" with reference to his darker-than-lilywhite skin colour.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,230

    maxh said:

    Gosh, this Wellcome Trust announcement has turned this place into a bit of an echo chamber this afternoon.

    It might be in part because it does seem like an odd decision, hard to justify in the terms it has been presented, and plenty of people (like me) aren't quite sure how to react yet. I want to know a bit more about why they've taken this decision, and as a result am holding off sharing an opinion yet.

    I'd find this blog a more valuable read this afternoon if I thought there was a chance of reasoned, considered responses from those who are concerned about this decision and its cultural impact, rather than a kneejerk scream of WOKE!!

    (Honourable exception made for @Fairliered's comment - I thought you summed it up perfectly!)

    You can read their reasoning here...its pretty unequivocal. The whole collection is so racist and a display of white privilege, we just can't continue promoting it.

    https://twitter.com/ExploreWellcome/status/1596091211844313088
    Thanks (I realise I could have simply googled this myself, but I'm lazy).

    Some thoughts in response, in fairly random order:
    1. IMO there are definitely some exhibits in some museums that are out-of-date and have little ongoing cultural value (I realise this is a value judgement). Sounds like Medicine Man might have been one of those. When I say I want to know more, I really want to know more about this exhibit, and how much cultural value it has.
    2. Without knowing more than I do, I think there is valid criticism of exhibitions that started out essentially as repositories of one person's ego, which it sounds like Medicine Man did (i.e. I want to collect stuff, I don't know where to put it, oh I know, I'll con the local populace into paying to view it, even though the collection as a whole is incoherent and purely baed on what I could nick when I was on my foreign travels). Other museums are genuinely fascinating and add lots to our culture. Two local examples to evidence this for me: Bristol's 'We the curious' which is wonderful, compared to the Bristol Museum which is of so little cultural value that it could be shut tomorrow without anyone being any the worse off (I realise this is another value judgement).
    3. The way in which Wellcome have made this announcement seems designed to provoke, and is disappointingly performative. From a relatively uninformed base I am tempted to agree with their central point (the collection tells more of a story of a man's wealth than it does a coherent cultural story) but the answer is to quietly modernise or transform it (which happens to museums all the time without anyone crying about the destruction of cultural heritage). The noise around this seems unhelpful.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    Grow up.
    You don't really have interesting or original thoughts, do you?
    There is nothing remotely interesting or original about a ranty old man who is losing the ability to change with the times.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    A very good thread detailing exactly what has happened at the Wellcome

    "So a well-loved and unique cultural attraction hired a director who explicitly aimed to destroy it in its historic form for essentially political reasons. More of this to come no doubt. Future appointments to key positions in the cultural bureaucracy will require close scrutiny"

    https://twitter.com/surplustakes/status/1596863959444836359?s=20&t=p13oN65jQ1Agj7_q7z340Q

    The Woke are at the gate. Their baying and howling can no longer be ignored
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    Grow up.
    You don't really have interesting or original thoughts, do you?
    There is nothing remotely interesting or original about a ranty old man who is losing the ability to change with the times.
    There is a reason the only friend you have is a dog
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Mustn't have black poets expressing themselves in our white museums in our white country!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    Somebody obviously used the arty bollocks gibberish generator -

    https://www.artybollocks.com/generator.html
    Now you’ve highlighted that, @Leon is going to find a new generator for his posts!
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    Grow up.
    You don't really have interesting or original thoughts, do you?
    There is nothing remotely interesting or original about a ranty old man who is losing the ability to change with the times.
    Actually Leon is quite right about this particular instance, even if I demur on many of his other Twitter-inspired diatribes.

    Just read what Wellcome have said, it’s bonkers.
    I just read it, seems a bit provocative (no doubt intentionally in order to raise their profile), but what is specifically bonkers?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    Oh!
    Canada!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Canada 1:0 in the first minute!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Mustn't have black poets expressing themselves in our white museums in our white country!
    Tsk. You are a horrible racist. These days you have to capitalise Black (but not white)
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Mustn't have black poets expressing themselves in our white museums in our white country!
    Tsk. You are a horrible racist. These days you have to capitalise Black (but not white)
    Idiot.

    You're previous post was clearly racist, and moronic.
  • Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    They make an exception because they agree with the politics he inspired.

    That's what this is really about.
  • IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    The museum sector has been quietly and completely captured by the Woke. It is a stealthy takeover

    Here is the Twitter profile of one of the most senior people in the sector

    "Director @museumsassoc chair @our_MOH, trustee @thackraymuseum @museum_forum
    Passionate about equality & anti-racism, Leeds lass & feminist"

    https://twitter.com/Sharonheal/status/1596826865205129216?s=20&t=lNY-6717r1Hh9Nwmr_euYg

    Her opinion of Wellcome closing its core exhibition?

    "A thoughtful, ethical & brave approach to rethinking what a museum is from ⁦
    @ExploreWellcome
    ⁩ 👏👏👏"

    They are APPLAUDING it

    Grow up.
    You don't really have interesting or original thoughts, do you?
    There is nothing remotely interesting or original about a ranty old man who is losing the ability to change with the times.
    Actually Leon is quite right about this particular instance, even if I demur on many of his other Twitter-inspired diatribes.

    Just read what Wellcome have said, it’s bonkers.
    It's a credit to you that you see this and are prepared to call it out.

    If only others shared your intelligence.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,326
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Mustn't have black poets expressing themselves in our white museums in our white country!
    Tsk. You are a horrible racist. These days you have to capitalise Black (but not white)
    Idiot.

    You're previous post was clearly racist, and moronic.
    You have revealed yourself as a racist. Finally. TBH I always suspected it

    Time for you to go away and reflect
  • On topic Liz Truss has stated that she intends to remain an MP. If you are betting against you are betting on illness or on her losing her seat (hint: she will not do the latter)
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst

    We are a white country, with a white history, and the white elite hates us for that

    It is genuinely quite bleak and depressing. And STILL there will be PB-ers claiming Woke is a bogeyman invented by the Right
    Mustn't have black poets expressing themselves in our white museums in our white country!
    Tsk. You are a horrible racist. These days you have to capitalise Black (but not white)
    Idiot.

    You're previous post was clearly racist, and moronic.
    You have revealed yourself as a racist. Finally. TBH I always suspected it

    Time for you to go away and reflect
    touched that you give a shit about my use of capital letteRs.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The Wellcome gets worse

    “Taken by a friend at the Wellcome Collection. This is real.”


    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1596880839711002630?s=46&t=OTxOvpdbAL3PiHIc5HsPrA

    It’s quite open now. They want to tear down our culture and history. They admit it



    I have to admit that made me laugh.

    It's funny that for all the hostility to privileged cis white men throughout history they seem to make an exception for Karl Marx. Or just Marx if you prefer.
    Naturally the man who wants to dismantle white infrastructure is a fellow of an Oxford college, and white:

    image
    I quite like the irony of an archaeologist saying "time's up"

    Yep, "time's up, who needs all this old shit?"
    That placard reads like a parody, like something from Private Eye.

    Every sentence is a keeper.

    If Wellcome think that the very idea of museums is exploitatively “re-centering the white cis-male body” they shouldn’t stop at one collection but simply close the doors full stop.

    Imagine being working class - both repulsed and intrigued by Bentham’s skin, naturally - and hoping to learn more about Bentham and how his skin got there.

    You’d come way shrugging, wondering why you wasted your bus fare.
    Yes, it is an agenda to close every single museum (and university, and art gallery, etc). Or turn them into conversation spaces for Black poets to express their angst
    That's not what behind it. And they aren't going to close every university.

    It's similar to the "Aryanising" of German institutions and culture in the 1930s. All officials and all institutions must keep to the message. In most cases the officials obey without question. If they're senior enough, they mustn't just keep to it: they must push it and make sure that others push it too. It doesn't matter whether they believe in it. Much of the time it contradicts itself anyway. Get them only to believe in power. That doesn't take long to achieve. They were already ¾ of the way there.

    Sometimes it's preferable to choose absolute garbage to feed to people when there's a choice between absolute garbage and stuff that's only semi-garbage, for reasons that from a behavioural engineering POV - aka mind control - should be clear.

    It's also similar to Stalinism in the USSR where there would be e.g. gatherings of officials where someone would spout some absolute sh*t about "workers' power" and everyone would clap and cheer, sometimes for 15 or 20 minutes, and they'd only stop when the leaders stopped, because if they stopped first they might get sent to a labour camp.

    "They thought they were free", as Milton Mayer put it.
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