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Can Sunak really win back CON to LAB switchers and retain power? – politicalbetting.com

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  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Whats the point in Southgate going to watch premiership games when he picks players who are completely out of form.

    Because the only other English LCBs are sadly a long way behind. So it's Maguire or play someone out of position, which is particularly risky in central defence.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,951
    edited November 2022

    kjh said:

    Recovery mode - In the last 10 days it has been my birthday, my wife's birthday, my son's birthday, my daughter's birthday, our wedding anniversary. My son's girlfriend has put in a poor showing by having her birthday a whole 10 days earlier. 5 celebrations in 10 days, 6 in 20 days

    Well, your children's birthdays were down to you. Ditto your wedding anniversary. So was this all planned?

    My Mum picked her wedding date to be between my Dad's Mum's birthday and her Mum's birthday so that he would never forget it. He just forgot all 3...
    Not sure you can plan children that well. Re wedding anniversary, yes as I was given an ultimatum by my wife to get married by my 40th birthday. I celebrated it on the flight to the honeymoon.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,057

    Whats the point in Southgate going to watch premiership games when he picks players who are completely out of form.

    Maybe he enjoys watching rugby.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 703
    Has anyone mentioned that a llama on This Morning with Phil and Holly has predicted that England and Wales will lose their opening games?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    MattW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cookie said:

    I think my position is that we keep political gestures out of the playing arena. That goes for political gestures whose intentions I agree with as well as political gestures whose politics I oppose. There are dozens of reasons for this, and another one has just become apparent: that we end up looking silly when we are pressured to remove our political gesture.

    There are people employed to do the politics, and it shouldn’t be the players jobs.

    To be clear, I’m not sure who I view as the main villains of the piece here, Fifa or the state of Qatar; but it’s certainly not Harry Kane or England or Denmark or Europe or even Gareth Southgate, pain in the arse though I find him.

    Also, we should have withdrawn from fifa about a decade ago when the scale of its corruption became unignorable.

    But none of this is the players’ job to carry.

    Footballers should not be put under pressure to be activists, I agree.
    I'm inclined to agree with that.

    I'd suggest the wrong turn was in allowing BLM to further politicise sport, and to introducing 'bending the knee' and being arsy about it.

    Countries get to world cups

    a - Because they are countries.
    b - Because they are good at football.

    World cups are one channel for contact with many different countries; to approach it like a witchfinder general seems to me to be unwise.

    And that leaves aside the issue of personal hypocrisy for so many taking the filthy lucre.
    For most of the England team, I imagine taking the knee is equivalent to a "kick racism out of football" sign of solidarity to the black players on the team who get racist chants against them.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,333
    SandraMc said:

    Has anyone mentioned that a llama on This Morning with Phil and Holly has predicted that England and Wales will lose their opening games?

    Does it know anything about politics?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    On topic, NOM is underpriced for me, because of a couple of fundamentals - firstly, Scotland: I simply cannot see Labour picking up (m)any seats, unless the SNP continue to devolve (lol) into internal conflict.

    Secondly - I simply don't think the polls right now will be where they are pre-election. The Tories are set to lose seats to both Labour and Lib Dems, but I don't think we'll see anything like the baxterised wipeouts.

    PM Starmer still seems most likely, but with a very slim majority at absolute best, and more likely in a minority C&S arrangement. And Labour have plenty of time to make mistakes yet. The outlier remains whether Farage and the ERG headbangers can get a banner together for the election and squeeze the Tories from the right.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Ghedebrav said:

    Whats the point in Southgate going to watch premiership games when he picks players who are completely out of form.

    Presumably cos he's got a team in mind and feels they'll play differently as a unit? There are a few odd selections though in my amateur opinion.

    One thing he's done quite impressively vs every England manager since Venables(?) is to foster a genuinely strong sense of team identity, rather than a bunch of disinterested millionaires who would rather be elsewhere.
    Sterling and Maquire are as out of form as possible.
    Yeah, that's who I'm thinking of. But sooner see them picked against Iran to see how they do in a competitive match than either USA or Wales.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,533
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    This is weird. Have just got my ticket for the match - at my local cinema. Anyone ever watched football in the cinema before? Hopefully it’s not me and 300 Iranians!

    I watched England's World Cup 2018 matches in pubs in Scotland. The experience of England's progress in that tournament was enhanced for me by the crushing disappointment felt by other viewers in the pub.
    There will undoubtedly be a small group of Scots dress in Iran shirts and waving Iran flags today.

    I would say that they shouldn’t be cheering for a regime with no respect for women’s rights, which sets out to violently clamp down on protests, but I guess it’s now something they’re quite used to up there…
    Would imagine it would be a few real nutters doing that unless they are Iranians. You haev a warped view of people.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,533

    On footballers' gestures, I confess I'm really confused.
    Can somebody help me to understand the difference between Woke virtue-signalling by spoilt multi-millionaires, and essential gestures that show solidarity with the oppressed?

    If only the fannies were as good at playing football as they are at being WOKE
  • Chris said:

    Leon said:

    This is why Taking the Knee for game after game was such a stupid idea. Many suspected it was worthless virtue signalling by the England team. Now we KNOW it was worthless virtue signalling. Because as soon as a gesture comes with a price - when it is worth something - they stop. They look like craven cowards.

    If they do the Knee today it will be excruciating. What will it say? “We’re against racism but homophobia is OK”

    Just be content - from your point of view - that they've caved on to homophobia. Don't expect a bonus in the form of them caving in to every prejudice in your pathetic little mind.
    Qatari homophobia and fifa duplicity are much more front and centre this morning than if they had just worn the things. Also, who knows what trolling has been planned in e.g. wearing them for post match interviews?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,422
    Artemis Loss of signal at 1160 miles from the moon. Closest approach is ~80 but there'll be no views of that.
    Be interesting to see how far away it is when signal is regained.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    This is weird. Have just got my ticket for the match - at my local cinema. Anyone ever watched football in the cinema before? Hopefully it’s not me and 300 Iranians!

    I watched England's World Cup 2018 matches in pubs in Scotland. The experience of England's progress in that tournament was enhanced for me by the crushing disappointment felt by other viewers in the pub.
    There will undoubtedly be a small group of Scots dress in Iran shirts and waving Iran flags today.

    I would say that they shouldn’t be cheering for a regime with no respect for women’s rights, which sets out to violently clamp down on protests, but I guess it’s now something they’re quite used to up there…
    Would imagine it would be a few real nutters doing that unless they are Iranians. You haev a warped view of people.
    Well it’s happened at every single England WC and Euros match for decades now, that groups of Scots go to the trouble of buying and wearing the kit of whoever’s playing England. I’ll be amazed if today is somehow an exception.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    They’ve successfully made the England captain look like a coward

    “Confirmed: Harry Kane will wear the FIFA armband v Iran”

    https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1594662240963420161?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    What a pointless avoidable mess
  • Twitter has just served me 5 tweets in a row of pix of DD women with captions like "I don't want NFL, NBA AND ROCK, I just want one man to satisfy me 😋volunteers?" A new and unwelcome development.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,958
    Leon said:

    They’ve successfully made the England captain look like a coward

    “Confirmed: Harry Kane will wear the FIFA armband v Iran”

    https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1594662240963420161?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Presumably you're not watching so that FIFA get the message not to award the World Cup to similar countries in the future?
  • The 'Ar brave SAS lads' community not v. happy with the BBC's puerile Peaky Rogue Heroes flummery. My objections would be more on aesthetic than insufficient respect grounds, but I'd have thought they'd want to get the fanbois onside.



    https://twitter.com/blair_mayne/status/1594444462758969344?s=20&t=pz58HnuuX1yG0OVVQ4Igyg
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,228
    edited November 2022

    Leon said:

    They’ve successfully made the England captain look like a coward

    “Confirmed: Harry Kane will wear the FIFA armband v Iran”

    https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1594662240963420161?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Presumably you're not watching so that FIFA get the message not to award the World Cup to similar countries in the future?
    Can’t help thinking that FIFA should move its headquarters to Qatar. They deserve each other.

    Plus carrying the incentives a shorter distance will reduce the issue of back injuries.
  • Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,980
    edited November 2022
    After Christmas, thinking of selling some old video games to Music Magpie (just so they're not landfill). Any experience, or alternatives (selling or recycling) people know about?

    Edited extra bit: and if anyone's after PS2/PS3 games, do give me a bell.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072

    Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
    A rock star
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
    Lead singer of Mumford & Sons, one of the best selling musical artists of the last 15 years.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,271
    Pulpstar said:

    Artemis Loss of signal at 1160 miles from the moon. Closest approach is ~80 but there'll be no views of that.
    Be interesting to see how far away it is when signal is regained.

    The aliens warned us not to go back.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,003
    Leon said:

    They’ve successfully made the England captain look like a coward

    “Confirmed: Harry Kane will wear the FIFA armband v Iran”

    https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1594662240963420161?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    If he scores and tears off his shirt to reveal the logo on a T, would that be two yellows = a sending off I wonder?

    I hope every team that gets eliminated take their shirts off as they leave the pitch, revealing the logo. FUFIFA
  • HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    1992 shows it is possible. At that time the Tories had a leader who was broadly liked and thought competent who took over after a long period in power. He was opposed by Neil Kinnock who could give a great speech but who did not inspire economic competence. Even a recession (and Sunak is having to cope with this too) did not persuade people that the Tories were a part of the problem or that Labour had any meaningful answers.

    SKS has nothing like Kinnock's oratory skills but he does come across as a safer pair of hands. Hunt strikes me as a much smarter and smoother operator than Norman Lamont was. Reeves I remain unsure of.

    Is it likely? Hell no.

    Major won in 1992 mainly to keep Kinnock out, despite over 10 years of Tory government. As soon as Labour
    had a more plausible leader in Blair then Major lost heavily in 1997.

    Starmer does not attract the sane negativity amongst swing voters Kinnock did and certainly much less than Corbyn did
    At this stage of Major's time as PM - Xmas 1990 - the Tories had been ahead in the polls for over a month. They appear to be some way off that at present.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,209

    Leon said:

    They’ve successfully made the England captain look like a coward

    “Confirmed: Harry Kane will wear the FIFA armband v Iran”

    https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1594662240963420161?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Presumably you're not watching so that FIFA get the message not to award the World Cup to similar countries in the future?
    If Kane went against instructions, wore the armband, got yellowcarded (and then suspended) Leon would be the first to endlessly rant about "woke, unprofessional football players ruining England's chances with their pointless virtue-signalling."

    The ones who would have needed to show some backbone here are the FA.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    LDs losing 43% of their vote to Lab and Cons losing 24% of their vote to Lab suggests to me that Rishi's attempts to tie Starmer to Corbyn as probably strategically what is needed to reduce Labour vote share, but I don't really see it sticking. Voters who thought Corbyn was a unique threat don't think the same of Starmer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,003

    Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
    He is married to Carey Mulligan. The lucky bastard.

    They have a boat here in Dartmouth and are seen pottering around the town.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,350
    DavidL said:

    On topic, I don't think comparisons with 1992 have much merit. Simply because of Kinnock. Kinnock was a windbag of limited intellectual ability and little vision. I can't imagine that he would have been a good Prime Minister; he had very little going for him other than the occasional rhetorical flourish.

    Now if I, a solid Labour voter, thought that about Kinnock, it's not difficult to see why swing voters were unpersuaded. Starmer is a different kettle of fish entirely.

    I think you seriously underestimate him. He made at least 2 of the 5 best political speeches in this country since the war. As a Tory I was greatly moved by his "thousand generations" speech...
    Were those Scottish generations ?

    And for some reason Biden cribbed that bit of nonsense.

    That apart, it was a good speech.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072
    malcolmg said:

    On footballers' gestures, I confess I'm really confused.
    Can somebody help me to understand the difference between Woke virtue-signalling by spoilt multi-millionaires, and essential gestures that show solidarity with the oppressed?

    If only the fannies were as good at playing football as they are at being WOKE
    In future they will spend more time practising taking the knee than taking penalties
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    The 'Ar brave SAS lads' community not v. happy with the BBC's puerile Peaky Rogue Heroes flummery. My objections would be more on aesthetic than insufficient respect grounds, but I'd have thought they'd want to get the fanbois onside.



    https://twitter.com/blair_mayne/status/1594444462758969344?s=20&t=pz58HnuuX1yG0OVVQ4Igyg

    I watched the final episode last night. It is brilliant, and I was uncertain after the first episode, so it completely won me over

    It is also gloriously swashbuckling, unwoke, dramatic and amusing. And vividly patriotic and patriotically British (so I can see why you detest it)

    And finally - it is a smash hit. One of the most successful BBC dramas of recent years and already renewed for a second season. I bet it will be big abroad as well. It’s just damn good TV

    If this was on Netflix they would now be pumping in money and expanding season 2 to ten episodes - coming soon - and prepping for a five season drama that will mint billions
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,539
    edited November 2022
    After Gary Lineker's sermon from the mount yesterday, I am surprised nobody has pointed out that in the past he took squillions from the Qataris to host their coverage of the Champion League coverage. Its not like in the past 10 years they have all of a sudden gone a bit Poland and anti-LBGT etc.

    He also managed to piss off the local audience by insulting Muslims during his presenting stint.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    algarkirk said:

    Shamima Begum in the news today.

    I hope that Leon has stocked up on Kleenex.

    The whole story is of course repulsive, but a UK government trying to make it the problem of a random third country (Bangladesh I think) is a further repellent feature. Time for the courts to tell the government to grow up.
    I don't think that is the role of the courts. Many things are shitty but lawful, and so can be condemned but doesn't mean a court can interfere.

    Leaving her case aside I don't like that the Home Secretary has the power they do in this area at all, but they do regardless, and an earlier case wrapped the knuckles of lower courts for substituting their own judgement on things they did not have full information for that of the Minister who was responsible.

    Citizenship is a murkier affair than we tend to admit in general, since the laws of a nation might mean someone has citizenship without either side realising it, but the government's approach has certainly relied heavily on the technicalities of what is possible and permissable. I wouldn't be surprised if she can win the latest action, but the courts telling the goverment to 'grow up' won't feature I'm sure.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,350
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    This is why Taking the Knee for game after game was such a stupid idea. Many suspected it was worthless virtue signalling by the England team. Now we KNOW it was worthless virtue signalling. Because as soon as a gesture comes with a price - when it is worth something - they stop. They look like craven cowards.

    If they do the Knee today it will be excruciating. What will it say? “We’re against racism but homophobia is OK”

    Just be content - from your point of view - that they've caved on to homophobia. Don't expect a bonus in the form of them caving in to every prejudice in your pathetic little mind.
    Are you going to have a small self satisfied anti-racist wank when they take the knee today? I imagine you will, at least, be tumescent
    That's at least two things you're still obsessing over.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072

    Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
    He is married to Carey Mulligan. The lucky bastard.

    They have a boat here in Dartmouth and are seen pottering around the town.
    She was brilliant in Dr Who as Sally Sparrow.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,003

    SandraMc said:

    Has anyone mentioned that a llama on This Morning with Phil and Holly has predicted that England and Wales will lose their opening games?

    Does it know anything about politics?
    Does anybody anymore?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    tlg86 said:

    "It's not fair on the players" says Alan Shearer. Nope, sorry, they've brought it on themselves.

    If they've worn such armbands before with no issue then it is more on Fifa if they suddenly decide it is not ok, quite clearly at the behest of the local authorities.
  • SandraMc said:

    Has anyone mentioned that a llama on This Morning with Phil and Holly has predicted that England and Wales will lose their opening games?

    Does it know anything about politics?
    Yes and it posts here under @[REDACTED]
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,034
    Ticketing issues now at the game?!

    Really is such a shambles for FIFA. No one seems to be motivated by this world cup
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,350
    SandraMc said:

    Has anyone mentioned that a llama on This Morning with Phil and Holly has predicted that England and Wales will lose their opening games?

    Is that a Dalai feature, or just a one off ?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Woke is weak worthless virtue signalling whilst also simultaneously an all powerful force in total control and destroying out society.

    Am I doing this right?
  • It's possible, I think, that the Conservatives could be the largest party.

    But I think the overwhelmingly likelihood is that Labour will be, with a small but credible chance of an outright majority worth having.

    They should consider how a coalition might work, though, and what they'd be willing to negotiate with the Lib Dems.

    There will be no Coalition - though possibly some form of Lib/Lab pact similar to what we had 1977/78.
  • As predicted, no Foden, going with the out of form Maguire, Shaw, Mount and Sterling....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    This is ACTUAL bravery

    "Iran’s World Cup captain: “In the name of God, creator of rainbows… I want to say condolences to all the grieving families in Iran… we want them to know we are with them and by their side and share their pain.”"

    https://twitter.com/carolineframke/status/1594509813765087233?s=20&t=yUTQ03w2K7QKUak4IiR3xg
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,003
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
    He is married to Carey Mulligan. The lucky bastard.

    They have a boat here in Dartmouth and are seen pottering around the town.
    She was brilliant in Dr Who as Sally Sparrow.
    Yep. When I first spotted her. Carried "The Weeping Angels" episode, in itself one of the very best episodes of the new era. What could be more terrifying to kids than monsters that attack you when you blink?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597

    The 'Ar brave SAS lads' community not v. happy with the BBC's puerile Peaky Rogue Heroes flummery. My objections would be more on aesthetic than insufficient respect grounds, but I'd have thought they'd want to get the fanbois onside.



    https://twitter.com/blair_mayne/status/1594444462758969344?s=20&t=pz58HnuuX1yG0OVVQ4Igyg

    What are they on about, must every media production be 'respectful'?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    The 'Ar brave SAS lads' community not v. happy with the BBC's puerile Peaky Rogue Heroes flummery. My objections would be more on aesthetic than insufficient respect grounds, but I'd have thought they'd want to get the fanbois onside.



    https://twitter.com/blair_mayne/status/1594444462758969344?s=20&t=pz58HnuuX1yG0OVVQ4Igyg

    I watched the final episode last night. It is brilliant, and I was uncertain after the first episode, so it completely won me over

    It is also gloriously swashbuckling, unwoke, dramatic and amusing. And vividly patriotic and patriotically British (so I can see why you detest it)

    And finally - it is a smash hit. One of the most successful BBC dramas of recent years and already renewed for a second season. I bet it will be big abroad as well. It’s just damn good TV

    If this was on Netflix they would now be pumping in money and expanding season 2 to ten episodes - coming soon - and prepping for a five season drama that will mint billions
    Netflix would cancel it after 3 seasons because the metrics would say it isn't bringing in new subscribers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Tempted to support Iran now
  • A video in which a woman shouts a pro-IRA chant while posing alongside Dame Arlene Foster has been condemned.

    The footage which emerged over the weekend was taken at the Local Women Business Awards on Saturday.

    In the video, the woman poses for a selfie with the former first minister before starting to chant "Up the Ra".

    Dame Arlene was eight when the IRA attempted to kill her father, a reserve police officer, outside the family home.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-63693756
  • Alistair said:

    Woke is weak worthless virtue signalling whilst also simultaneously an all powerful force in total control and destroying out society.

    Am I doing this right?

    You've got it - but please stress that noone in the real world really knows what it means.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,539
    edited November 2022
    Leon said:

    The 'Ar brave SAS lads' community not v. happy with the BBC's puerile Peaky Rogue Heroes flummery. My objections would be more on aesthetic than insufficient respect grounds, but I'd have thought they'd want to get the fanbois onside.



    https://twitter.com/blair_mayne/status/1594444462758969344?s=20&t=pz58HnuuX1yG0OVVQ4Igyg

    I watched the final episode last night. It is brilliant, and I was uncertain after the first episode, so it completely won me over

    It is also gloriously swashbuckling, unwoke, dramatic and amusing. And vividly patriotic and patriotically British (so I can see why you detest it)

    And finally - it is a smash hit. One of the most successful BBC dramas of recent years and already renewed for a second season. I bet it will be big abroad as well. It’s just damn good TV

    If this was on Netflix they would now be pumping in money and expanding season 2 to ten episodes - coming soon - and prepping for a five season drama that will mint billions
    I presume BBC will do their usual when they get a hit, Season 2 coming in 2025...Season 3, 2030....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,350
    pillsbury said:

    Twitter has just served me 5 tweets in a row of pix of DD women with captions like "I don't want NFL, NBA AND ROCK, I just want one man to satisfy me 😋volunteers?" A new and unwelcome development.

    You could have told them you weren't interested in the ad when you got the first one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Alistair said:

    Woke is weak worthless virtue signalling whilst also simultaneously an all powerful force in total control and destroying out society.

    Am I doing this right?

    Delete the word "weak" because I never said it. And without the word weak you don't have a point, do you?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,057

    As predicted, no Foden, going with the out of form Maguire, Shaw, Mount and Sterling....

    Playing Foden in place of Maguire or Shaw would have been an interesting experiment in the Graham Taylor mould ("well, you've got to experiment, so in goal I'm playing Gloria Hunniford").

    I'm not sure how much "form" in club football playing difefrent styles really matters. Guess we'll find out.
  • WillG said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
    Lead singer of Mumford & Sons, one of the best selling musical artists of the last 15 years.
    Are they that posh-boy band that Sam Cam was into? I don't think I've ever heard any of their songs.
    A grown man on a skateboard deserves everything that's coming to him.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
    He is married to Carey Mulligan. The lucky bastard.

    They have a boat here in Dartmouth and are seen pottering around the town.
    She was brilliant in Dr Who as Sally Sparrow.
    Yep. When I first spotted her. Carried "The Weeping Angels" episode, in itself one of the very best episodes of the new era. What could be more terrifying to kids than monsters that attack you when you blink?
    Yes, it was a great feat given it was written as a Doctor Lite episode to allow David Tennant a break.

    Of the new era monsters the Weeping Angels are the very best.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    Whilst we're all having fun with some reversals in positions on the matter of political gestures/protesting by sports stars, I think it can also be true that people might take the view that they would rather they didn't do such a thing, but would be more outraged at the players being ordered not to do it. (obviously some would have already ordered them not to, it doesn't apply to those)
  • DavidL said:

    So what would make a 1992 possible?

    Firstly, the economy would have to perform much better than the OBR have forecast. That is certainly possible.
    Secondly, SKS would either have to tar his reputation somewhat or go under the proverbial bus. Much less likely.
    Thirdly, the government would need to reach better deals with the EU and France in respect of the channel. Possible and very much in hand.

    The difference to me seems to come down to SKS being far more electable than Kinnock ever was. Unless that changes the Tories are toast.

    Even the 1992 result was not inevitable. Kinnock could have managed a 2017 result had he but controlled his emotions better in the later stages of the campaign.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,539
    edited November 2022
    Driver said:

    As predicted, no Foden, going with the out of form Maguire, Shaw, Mount and Sterling....

    Playing Foden in place of Maguire or Shaw would have been an interesting experiment in the Graham Taylor mould ("well, you've got to experiment, so in goal I'm playing Gloria Hunniford").

    I'm not sure how much "form" in club football playing difefrent styles really matters. Guess we'll find out.
    Obviously not suggesting that. Saying he is picking 4 players who are out of form, 2 of which Foden could (and should) play in place of. Foden has shown at Man City he can consistently create and score against the best in the world in EPL and Champions League for 2 seasons now.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,965
    There were only ever two options available to England - go to Qatar and accept all their nonsense, or take Scotland's principle lead and not attend at all.

    I don't mind "virtue signalling" at all - I try and put myself in the place of someone who is gay/black whatever, and suppose that those small gestures are probably quite heartening.

    But now they are utterly worthless. The opposite effect. I just hope a few players do the Ecuadorian money gesture thing as a celebration.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,095
    Leon said:

    This is ACTUAL bravery

    "Iran’s World Cup captain: “In the name of God, creator of rainbows… I want to say condolences to all the grieving families in Iran… we want them to know we are with them and by their side and share their pain.”"

    https://twitter.com/carolineframke/status/1594509813765087233?s=20&t=yUTQ03w2K7QKUak4IiR3xg

    That's pretty impressive.
    I don't want my friends or family or the small army of unknown lads inexplicably building in Manchester to be disappointed or unhappy. I want England to win for their sake. But secretly, I'd be rather pleased if genuinely brave individuals like this, and the benighted Iranian people, have something to celebrate. Maybe it could spark something?
  • Leon said:

    This is ACTUAL bravery

    "Iran’s World Cup captain: “In the name of God, creator of rainbows… I want to say condolences to all the grieving families in Iran… we want them to know we are with them and by their side and share their pain.”"

    https://twitter.com/carolineframke/status/1594509813765087233?s=20&t=yUTQ03w2K7QKUak4IiR3xg

    Very woke of him - and of you

    Maybe I am getting the hang of this 'woke' mallarkey
  • Leon said:

    This is ACTUAL bravery

    "Iran’s World Cup captain: “In the name of God, creator of rainbows… I want to say condolences to all the grieving families in Iran… we want them to know we are with them and by their side and share their pain.”"

    https://twitter.com/carolineframke/status/1594509813765087233?s=20&t=yUTQ03w2K7QKUak4IiR3xg

    Very good. As far as the interweb knows, creator of rainbows is NOT a standard epithet for Allah.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
    Lead singer of Mumford & Sons, one of the best selling musical artists of the last 15 years.
    Are they that posh-boy band that Sam Cam was into? I don't think I've ever heard any of their songs.
    A grown man on a skateboard deserves everything that's coming to him.
    Mumford and Sons are the Wurzels from Eton
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    This is ACTUAL bravery

    "Iran’s World Cup captain: “In the name of God, creator of rainbows… I want to say condolences to all the grieving families in Iran… we want them to know we are with them and by their side and share their pain.”"

    https://twitter.com/carolineframke/status/1594509813765087233?s=20&t=yUTQ03w2K7QKUak4IiR3xg

    That's pretty impressive.
    I don't want my friends or family or the small army of unknown lads inexplicably building in Manchester to be disappointed or unhappy. I want England to win for their sake. But secretly, I'd be rather pleased if genuinely brave individuals like this, and the benighted Iranian people, have something to celebrate. Maybe it could spark something?
    He probably won't be able to go back home to Iran now.

    Genuinely brave gestures like this in sport are admirable.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Okay, this is weird. Got off work and ran to cinema just in time - and it’s just me in a 300-seat room!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,747
    edited November 2022
    Rather disconcerting, the WC in the dank early winte - but ok I can do it, so COME ON ENGLAND!

    (Lineker's trousers are too tight. Hope that changes.)
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072
    Eabhal said:

    There were only ever two options available to England - go to Qatar and accept all their nonsense, or take Scotland's principle lead and not attend at all.

    I don't mind "virtue signalling" at all - I try and put myself in the place of someone who is gay/black whatever, and suppose that those small gestures are probably quite heartening.

    But now they are utterly worthless. The opposite effect. I just hope a few players do the Ecuadorian money gesture thing as a celebration.

    I'm sure the commentators could happily join in

    Trebles all round
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
    Lead singer of Mumford & Sons, one of the best selling musical artists of the last 15 years.
    Are they that posh-boy band that Sam Cam was into? I don't think I've ever heard any of their songs.
    A grown man on a skateboard deserves everything that's coming to him.
    Seems like an efficient way to get around.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Sandpit said:

    Okay, this is weird. Got off work and ran to cinema just in time - and it’s just me in a 300-seat room!

    How bizarre

    Is the World Cup not that popular, is it Covid, what do you think?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    This is a genuine dilemma

    Iran team protesting? Wow
  • Sandpit said:

    Okay, this is weird. Got off work and ran to cinema just in time - and it’s just me in a 300-seat room!

    You sure you are in the right screen and haven't accidentally gone to see Black Adam?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    As far as virtue signalling goes, I don't think signalling virtue is inherently a bad thing to do. It's if you are clearly doing it only to win brownie points, and not actually acting virtuously, that it would be an issue.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Artemis Loss of signal at 1160 miles from the moon. Closest approach is ~80 but there'll be no views of that.
    Be interesting to see how far away it is when signal is regained.

    Now expected in 4 minutes, so no clash there.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072
    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    BREAKING

    “Marcus Mumford 'bitten' by dog in Exeter while riding his skateboard”

    https://twitter.com/devonlivenews/status/1594666491357454336?s=46&t=K-rE85rPCqYH-KtiQcjJEA

    Who is Marcus Mumford?
    Lead singer of Mumford & Sons, one of the best selling musical artists of the last 15 years.
    Are they that posh-boy band that Sam Cam was into? I don't think I've ever heard any of their songs.
    A grown man on a skateboard deserves everything that's coming to him.
    Mumford and Sons are the Wurzels from Eton
    Talking of woke, as people are, one member of Mumford and Sons was hoofed out for daring to be right wing.

    They reacted badly to outrage on twitter.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, this is weird. Got off work and ran to cinema just in time - and it’s just me in a 300-seat room!

    You sure you are in the right screen and haven't accidentally gone to see Black Adam?
    I thought it might be Arabic commentary, or that it might be me and 300 Iranians - but I didn’t think there would be no-one else here at all!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    Sandpit said:

    Okay, this is weird. Got off work and ran to cinema just in time - and it’s just me in a 300-seat room!

    Had the same experience when I watched Schindler's List on Holocaust Memorial Day. Well, there was one other person in there, which may have been worse.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Cookie said:

    I think my position is that we keep political gestures out of the playing arena. That goes for political gestures whose intentions I agree with as well as political gestures whose politics I oppose. There are dozens of reasons for this, and another one has just become apparent: that we end up looking silly when we are pressured to remove our political gesture.

    There are people employed to do the politics, and it shouldn’t be the players jobs.

    To be clear, I’m not sure who I view as the main villains of the piece here, Fifa or the state of Qatar; but it’s certainly not Harry Kane or England or Denmark or Europe or even Gareth Southgate, pain in the arse though I find him.

    Also, we should have withdrawn from fifa about a decade ago when the scale of its corruption became unignorable.

    But none of this is the players’ job to carry.

    I respectfully disagree - if a sportsperson wants to use their position to get across a political, social or moral issue they feel strongly about, that up to them. To pluck an example from many, Ali on Vietnam gave public and prominent voice of opposition to a bloody and fruitless war.

    That said, I don't think it should necessarily be foisted either - the annual poppy stramash being a case in point. But where's the line? There isn't one, tbh. It's a matter of judgement.
  • Mr. Taz, if you tolerate wrongthink you'll only encourage it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072
    Leon said:

    This is a genuine dilemma

    Iran team protesting? Wow

    Protesting against a regime that puts its opponents to death is brave.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,003

    Leon said:

    The 'Ar brave SAS lads' community not v. happy with the BBC's puerile Peaky Rogue Heroes flummery. My objections would be more on aesthetic than insufficient respect grounds, but I'd have thought they'd want to get the fanbois onside.



    https://twitter.com/blair_mayne/status/1594444462758969344?s=20&t=pz58HnuuX1yG0OVVQ4Igyg

    I watched the final episode last night. It is brilliant, and I was uncertain after the first episode, so it completely won me over

    It is also gloriously swashbuckling, unwoke, dramatic and amusing. And vividly patriotic and patriotically British (so I can see why you detest it)

    And finally - it is a smash hit. One of the most successful BBC dramas of recent years and already renewed for a second season. I bet it will be big abroad as well. It’s just damn good TV

    If this was on Netflix they would now be pumping in money and expanding season 2 to ten episodes - coming soon - and prepping for a five season drama that will mint billions
    I presume BBC will do their usual when they get a hit, Season 2 coming in 2025...Season 3, 2030....
    Filming it now, I understand.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    That was a remarkable "singing" of the Iranian national anthem. The entire crowd booing?

    I suggest Iran could win this from a sense of moral superiority and revolutionary urgency
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,539
    edited November 2022
    I presume the players not singing their own national anthem was protest? I presume they will have to claim asylum somewhere rather than ever go home?
  • HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    DavidL said:

    So what would make a 1992 possible?

    .

    Nothing because this is nothing like 1992.

    Stop making a false comparison please. It's misleading.

    The truth is that this is psepholoically like 1997 but economically FAR WORSE.

    Conservatives on here need to prepare for the Dark Night of the Soul.
    Unlike 1997 though there will be no golden economic legacy for Starmer and Reeves so the economy will then be their problem
    1997 was not exactly a golden economic legacy even though things had improved since the collapse of the Major Government's economic strategy at the the time of the Autumn 1992 ERM fiasco. Labour still inherited Budget and Balance of Payments deficits. Ted Heath enjoyed a better legacy from Labour in 1970.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    This is ACTUAL bravery

    "Iran’s World Cup captain: “In the name of God, creator of rainbows… I want to say condolences to all the grieving families in Iran… we want them to know we are with them and by their side and share their pain.”"

    https://twitter.com/carolineframke/status/1594509813765087233?s=20&t=yUTQ03w2K7QKUak4IiR3xg

    That's pretty impressive.
    I don't want my friends or family or the small army of unknown lads inexplicably building in Manchester to be disappointed or unhappy. I want England to win for their sake. But secretly, I'd be rather pleased if genuinely brave individuals like this, and the benighted Iranian people, have something to celebrate. Maybe it could spark something?
    He probably won't be able to go back home to Iran now.

    Genuinely brave gestures like this in sport are admirable.
    Absolutely.
  • Sigh, iPlayer on PC still only in 720p.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,485

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    DavidL said:

    So what would make a 1992 possible?

    .

    Nothing because this is nothing like 1992.

    Stop making a false comparison please. It's misleading.

    The truth is that this is psepholoically like 1997 but economically FAR WORSE.

    Conservatives on here need to prepare for the Dark Night of the Soul.
    Unlike 1997 though there will be no golden economic legacy for Starmer and Reeves so the economy will then be their problem
    1997 was not exactly a golden economic legacy even though things had improved since the collapse of the Major Government's economic strategy at the the time of the Autumn 1992 ERM fiasco. Labour still inherited Budget and Balance of Payments deficits. Ted Heath enjoyed a better legacy from Labour in 1970.
    "Golden legacy" means not an utterly disastrous economic situation.
  • pillsbury said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Artemis Loss of signal at 1160 miles from the moon. Closest approach is ~80 but there'll be no views of that.
    Be interesting to see how far away it is when signal is regained.

    Now expected in 4 minutes, so no clash there.
    Now reacquired. 78 miles up according to the counter on NASA website.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    The 'Ar brave SAS lads' community not v. happy with the BBC's puerile Peaky Rogue Heroes flummery. My objections would be more on aesthetic than insufficient respect grounds, but I'd have thought they'd want to get the fanbois onside.



    https://twitter.com/blair_mayne/status/1594444462758969344?s=20&t=pz58HnuuX1yG0OVVQ4Igyg

    I watched the final episode last night. It is brilliant, and I was uncertain after the first episode, so it completely won me over

    It is also gloriously swashbuckling, unwoke, dramatic and amusing. And vividly patriotic and patriotically British (so I can see why you detest it)

    And finally - it is a smash hit. One of the most successful BBC dramas of recent years and already renewed for a second season. I bet it will be big abroad as well. It’s just damn good TV

    If this was on Netflix they would now be pumping in money and expanding season 2 to ten episodes - coming soon - and prepping for a five season drama that will mint billions
    I presume BBC will do their usual when they get a hit, Season 2 coming in 2025...Season 3, 2030....
    Filming it now, I understand.
    Apparently, filming starts in April 2023 and the new season is coming in..... autumn 2024. Two years later

    It simply isn't good enough. There has to be a season a year with a hit show


    https://www.backstage.com/uk/magazine/article/sas-rogue-heroes-greenlit-for-second-season-75601/

  • Sigh, iPlayer on PC still only in 720p.

    UHD feed on the iPlayer on my TV has a delay of 78 seconds compared to the feed on the Sky Q box.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Can I hear..... vuvezelas?

    Say it ain't so
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,095
    edited November 2022
    This may not turn out to be a great game of football, but it's gripping from a Middle Eastern geopolitics perspective. Feels like England are supporting actors in this story.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    That goalie is surely going off
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,072

    I presume the players not singing their own national anthem was protest? I presume they will have to claim asylum somewhere rather than ever go home?

    Hopefully they will get it without any issues, especially given the current debate around the matter in Europe.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Sigh, iPlayer on PC still only in 720p.

    UHD feed on the iPlayer on my TV has a delay of 78 seconds compared to the feed on the Sky Q box.
    Yes, I'm not watching England matches in 4k, will watch other ones on iPlayer though.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,003
    Leon said:

    That goalie is surely going off

    Broken nose, by his reaction when they tried to touch it....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    That goalie is surely going off

    Broken nose, by his reaction when they tried to touch it....
    And a real risk of concussion as well. Has to go off
  • Good piece in this week’s Economist. [On healthcare for trans identifying children] The extraordinary thing is that Scotland is diverging so much from England now - Scottish Govt simply ignoring the evidence that has prompted a shift in children’s healthcare in England for political reasons.

    https://twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1594675375975563265
This discussion has been closed.