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Will the Tories ever get over the Kwasi Budget? – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    A touch of envy ?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Pretty sure the (male) Saudi Royals get to do pretty much whatever (and whoever) they please.
    That's an utterly appalling thing to say.

    Whomever.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,272
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Pretty sure the (male) Saudi Royals get to do pretty much whatever (and whoever) they please.
    That's an utterly appalling thing to say.

    Whomever.
    :lol:

    I did wonder.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,604
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"

    I must admit to being slightly surprised by this.

    Euronext is bigger than the LSE, sure, but that's because the LSE is (basically) just London. While Euronext is Paris + Amsterdam + Milan + Oslo + Lisbon + Dublin.

    France has one massive company by market cap (LVMH), but the UK has AstraZeneca, Shell, BP, Unlever, GlaxoSmithKline, and HSBC - all of which are going to be $100bn+ companies.
    UK equities are trading at a huge discount. Look at the average P/E, it's either a misprice and a huge buying opportunity or UK companies are intrinsically less valuable. I suspect it's a mix of both because investors are tired of years of zero capital growth.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,275
    Off-topic:

    For any map and history nerds out there, a new variant of the NLS-style mapping service:
    https://bothness.github.io/ons-basemaps/#/zoomstack-outdoor//os-1900//15,-1.82367,52.90341
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,267
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    "Maximising the GE24 result" is what bothers me about Sir Keir, I think - that's supposed to be a means to an end not an end in itself. I'd rather he had a 40 majority and a decent plan of what to do with it than a 100 majority and no such plan.
    A "plan" is a bit much to expect - but hopefully there'll be the impression of integrity and competence plus some workable proposals in the manifesto to improve the lives of ordinary people.
    Wow. If that's the case, no wonder I'm bothered by him!
    But you weren't bothered by Johnson who had no post Brexit plan.

    When Labour propose an economic recovery plan, let's face it, you won't like it anyway.
    Boris at least had a plan to end the antidemocratic nonsense of the 2017 parliament.

    As for the latter point - we'll have to see it to judge on that!
    Anti-democratic? Parliament was sovereign even if you didn't like it.

    Johnson's post election plan was simply to "do Brexit". He had no idea what that meant. The biggest dilemma facing the May Parliament was resolving the Irish issue. Johnson "resolved" that by putting a border in the North Channel. How is that working?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,646
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,993

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    "Maximising the GE24 result" is what bothers me about Sir Keir, I think - that's supposed to be a means to an end not an end in itself. I'd rather he had a 40 majority and a decent plan of what to do with it than a 100 majority and no such plan.
    A "plan" is a bit much to expect - but hopefully there'll be the impression of integrity and competence plus some workable proposals in the manifesto to improve the lives of ordinary people.
    Wow. If that's the case, no wonder I'm bothered by him!
    But you weren't bothered by Johnson who had no post Brexit plan.

    When Labour propose an economic recovery plan, let's face it, you won't like it anyway.
    We all know the game. Ultra partisan poses as open-minded pragmatist wanting only what's best for the country and expresses disappointment that the other side's lack of ambition/realism/clarity (delete to taste) means they can't vote for them.
  • Some comic relief . . .

    Politico - Rick Scott tries to explain what went wrong for the GOP

    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/florida-playbook/2022/11/14/rick-scott-tries-to-explain-what-went-wrong-for-the-gop-00066685

    Remember this?— On the eve of the election, Florida Sen. Rick Scott, who was leading the campaign arm of Senate Republicans, went on Fox News and flatly predicted that the GOP would win control of the Senate and wind up with “at least 52” seats. “I think we’re going to get 52-plus,” Scott said.

    Everything is awesome— Scott added that Republicans had “great candidates” and that those candidates had a “great message” and the “energy on our side is unbelievable.” He also said that “we defined the Democrats early and it paid off,” an apparent reference to the National Republican Senatorial Committee spending money early on television ads.

    Recalibration — What a difference a few days makes. By Friday evening, Scott told Fox’s Sean Hannity that the election was a “complete disappointment.” He was back on Fox on Sunday — right after Democrats won Arizona and Nevada, and held onto the Senate — where he was now throwing jabs at Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, contending that Republicans lost “because we didn’t have a plan.”

    What he didn’t say— Of course, there have been a lot of others pointing fingers at former President Donald Trump as well as at some of the GOP candidates that wound up running. Let’s not forget that Scott refused to take sides in primaries and himself was criticized earlier this year for his stewardship of the NRSC. Scott’s decision to release his own “Rescue America” plan also did not go over well with some of his colleagues, especially after President Joe Biden used it to hammer Republicans.

    This merits a promotion?— Amid all of this, Scott — who was poised to announce a leadership challenge to McConnell last week, only to pull back amid Tuesday’s disappointing results — is part of a group (including fellow Sen. Marco Rubio, in a move that was a tad surprising) that now wants a delay in this week’s scheduled leadership elections until after the Georgia runoff. Scott himself on Sunday sounded as if he still serious about running by saying “I’m not going to take anything off the table.” Multiple reports suggest McConnell would still win, which could place both of Florida's senators in a somewhat awkward position the next two years. But away we go. . . .

    SSI - HA! HA! HA! - Rick Scott is surely the 2nd-Biggest Loser of the 2022 midterms. His "management" of GOP Senate campaign committee was epic . . . for the Democrats!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,604
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"

    I must admit to being slightly surprised by this.

    Euronext is bigger than the LSE, sure, but that's because the LSE is (basically) just London. While Euronext is Paris + Amsterdam + Milan + Oslo + Lisbon + Dublin.

    France has one massive company by market cap (LVMH), but the UK has AstraZeneca, Shell, BP, Unlever, GlaxoSmithKline, and HSBC - all of which are going to be $100bn+ companies.
    So are L'Oréal, hermes, dior, sanofi and total energie it says here

    https://companiesmarketcap.com/france/largest-companies-in-france-by-market-cap/

    Bit worrying so much money tied up in silk ties and shampoo
    Four of the top five French companies - by market cap - are luxury goods. There you go.
    Interestingly, that link (for the UK) is here https://companiesmarketcap.com/united-kingdom/largest-companies-in-the-uk-by-market-cap/

    And that suggests that the UK has a narrow lead in market cap - 2.8trn vs 2.5trn.
    There's also some historically depressed prices in London as well, RR and IAG come to mind.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    Executions were public in the UK until the abolition of capital punishment.
    The last public hanging in the UK was in 1867 but capital punishment was not abolished here until 1969
    History has long arms. Thomas Hardy attended one at age 16, and lived to 1928, within the lifetime of people still alive..

    "I remember what a fine figure she showed against the sky as she hung in the misty rain and how the tight black silk gown set off her shape as she wheeled half round and back.’ So said Thomas Hardy when looking back to a sight that haunted him into later life: the hanging at Dorchester Prison on 9 August 1856 of Martha Brown. She was the last woman to be publicly hanged in Dorset. He was just sixteen when he witnessed the hanging and wrote seventy years later that he was ashamed to have been there."

    Bloody hell

    She was executed outside Dorchester Prison after being convicted of the murder of her second husband, John Brown, on 5 July, just thirty-five days earlier. The prosecution said she had attacked him with an axe after he had taken a whip to her.[2]

    The *prosecution* admit that, and it makes no difference.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Lol SpaceX has just went and made a bog old advertising purchase on Twitter.

    Really?

    I'd be pretty pissed if I was a SpaceX shareholder.
    For Starlink

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/spacex-buys-ad-campaign-twitter-starlink-musk-says-2022-11-14/
    I like Starlink; makes a very useful backup for conventional broadband, and is unlikely to be taken out by the same events which take down fibre broadband.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Mass murder is a bit more objectionable than adultery, TBF.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899
    "Brexit continues to undermine attempts to handle the economic crisis". Must read-piece by @anandMenon1 (@UKandEU ) offering a very compelling account of the current UK political and economic crisis and its relationship to Brexit! https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-kingdom/how-britain-stumbled?utm_medium=social @pmdfoster
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,993
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Hill believes Biden should make Newsom VP.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3728474-heres-a-game-plan-biden-replaces-harris-with-newsom-and-then-resigns/amp/

    Oh yes, and after appointing Newsom (a man who would struggle to win the Democratic Presidential in his home state), Biden should resign, making Newsom President.

    The author is a former Reagan and Bush speechwriter, as a Republican I am sure he would love the Democratic candidate in 2024 to be an elitist liberal governor of California who would go down like a lead balloon in the rustbelt swing states
    I struggle to think of a stupider pick than Newsom for the Democrats.
    How about a Bernie AOC ticket ?
    I'd fly over to campaign for that!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,275
    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Lol SpaceX has just went and made a bog old advertising purchase on Twitter.

    Really?

    I'd be pretty pissed if I was a SpaceX shareholder.
    For Starlink

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/spacex-buys-ad-campaign-twitter-starlink-musk-says-2022-11-14/
    I like Starlink; makes a very useful backup for conventional broadband, and is unlikely to be taken out by the same events which take down fibre broadband.
    Yes, but is very susceptible to be taken out by a petulant man-child called Musk.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,646
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Mass murder is a bit more objectionable than adultery, TBF.
    True, but it's the logic of relativity that is the issue here. In fact GK was also a noted adulterer, so we could go on that as well!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,805
    edited November 2022
    US House:

    From CNN - called races 204 Dem 212 GOP.

    Of 19 remaining:

    1. Democrats lead in 9
    2. GOP lead in 10.

    If things go to the current leaders, that’s a 222/213 House which is the reverse of what happened in 2020

    From an untrained review of the outstanding races e the 3 that look riskiest for the GOP where they are leading are the 2 AZ seats and CA-13. But that’s without knowledge of the areas left to report so the margins could quite easily grow so DYOR. I’m assuming Boebert has scraped home.

    Looks to me like GOP range 219-225. I don’t think I can really see a path to a Democratic House.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,993

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit was a shit idea. No 24058362437 in an ongoing series...

    Shapps says post-Brexit replacement of EU's product safety marking being delayed for two years to cut costs for business - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/14/james-cleverly-uk-france-channel-asylum-seekers-rishi-sunak-g20-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b#block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b

    Whats the sodding point? Our standards are their standards are our standards. And with the EU market so much larger its a pointless faff making up our own special marking. Hence so many things now wearing both UK and CE markings.
    If its the same standards then you put both UKCA and CE markings down. Its done by a printer normally, it can handle both in a template. No harm, no foul, no loss.

    If the standards differ, then its because we've chosen to differ them, or they've chosen to and we've chosen not to copy, which makes having our own standard valuable to cope with that.

    Seems like rather a no win, no fee kind of situation. If there's no reason not to have our own standards, just print UK next to theirs at no extra cost, but if there is, then its better to have them and not need them, than need them but not have them.
    That is compound negative hell - but I know I'd disagree if I could unravel it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,445
    edited November 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Half the Presidents in the world and half the monarchs in history have been adulterers. Being a Saint in your personal life does not mean you will be an effective Head of your country, see Jimmy Carter.

    Religious leaders should normally have impeccable personal lives like the Archbishop of Canterbury or Pope. For Presidents or Kings or PMs it is an optional extra, desirable but not a requirement
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678
    In a breakthrough, the U.S. and China will restart climate talks that have been frozen for months amid tensions over trade and Taiwan.
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1592167537206255616
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,889

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    "Maximising the GE24 result" is what bothers me about Sir Keir, I think - that's supposed to be a means to an end not an end in itself. I'd rather he had a 40 majority and a decent plan of what to do with it than a 100 majority and no such plan.
    A "plan" is a bit much to expect - but hopefully there'll be the impression of integrity and competence plus some workable proposals in the manifesto to improve the lives of ordinary people.
    Wow. If that's the case, no wonder I'm bothered by him!
    But you weren't bothered by Johnson who had no post Brexit plan.

    When Labour propose an economic recovery plan, let's face it, you won't like it anyway.
    Boris at least had a plan to end the antidemocratic nonsense of the 2017 parliament.

    As for the latter point - we'll have to see it to judge on that!
    Anti-democratic? Parliament was sovereign even if you didn't like it.

    Johnson's post election plan was simply to "do Brexit". He had no idea what that meant. The biggest dilemma facing the May Parliament was resolving the Irish issue. Johnson "resolved" that by putting a border in the North Channel. How is that working?
    Yes, and for about the eleventy billionth time we elect Parliament to do our bidding. A direct instruction in a referendum democratically trumps "we're MPs, so ner".
  • Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    A touch of envy ?
    No comment.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678
    Obviously.

    Russia has sanctioned Jim Carrey and Margaret Atwood for being "directly involved in forming an aggressive anti-Russian tendency
    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1592180838086873088
  • Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Mass murder is a bit more objectionable than adultery, TBF.
    True, but it's the logic of relativity that is the issue here. In fact GK was also a noted adulterer, so we could go on that as well!
    Do we think GK should have been more observant of the Seventh Commandment than the other nine?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Serious misunderstanding of the pensions issue in the header:
    - No-one in receipt of a final salary / defined benefit pension scheme will ever notice the impact on their scheme from LDI, because the obligation to make good on any shortfall sits with the sponsor. It would only matter if a sponsor went bust as a direct result, which a) hasn't happened yet, b) probably won't happen, and c) even if it did you still get most of the money back via the PPF.
    - No-one paying contributions into a scheme was affected, because LDI doesn't really apply to defined contribution schemes.
    - Finally, the long term overall effect of Kwarteng's budget would likely have been positive for DB pension schemes, because they benefit from increased interest rates discounting the value of their liabilities rather more than they lose out from having to do the same to their assets, assuming the value of equities/property/other non-bond instruments doesn't also tank at the same time. The issue was short term liquidity, not long term structural problems.

    In short: a big issue, yes, albeit one the advisors to corporate trustees really should have done more to prevent. But not going to be an issue with the public.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,445

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Mass murder is a bit more objectionable than adultery, TBF.
    True, but it's the logic of relativity that is the issue here. In fact GK was also a noted adulterer, so we could go on that as well!
    Do we think GK should have been more observant of the Seventh Commandment than the other nine?
    GK was not Christian. His only religion was Mongolian Shamanism
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678

    US House:

    From CNN - called races 204 Dem 212 GOP.

    Of 19 remaining:

    1. Democrats lead in 9
    2. GOP lead in 10.

    If things go to the current leaders, that’s a 222/213 House which is the reverse of what happened in 2020

    From an untrained review of the outstanding races e the 3 that look riskiest for the GOP where they are leading are the 2 AZ seats and CA-13. But that’s without knowledge of the areas left to report so the margins could quite easily grow so DYOR. I’m assuming Boebert has scraped home.

    Looks to me like GOP range 219-225. I don’t think I can really see a path to a Democratic House.

    I finally followed Casino on this yesterday when it began to look inevitable; before then there might just have been an outside chance..
    I don't really like short odds bets unless they really are sure things.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,102
    rkrkrk said:

    On the header -> have people actually had their pensions directly reduced over this? I didn't realize that.

    I assumed any costs are just going to be passed onto future pensioners.

    There aren’t really any costs (AIUI).

    Essentially the plan assets fell but the funding liability fells as well (as interest l rates go up the capitalised value of the future payment obligation goes down).

    So hedging worked as it was intended to.

    But the media, in the interests of drama, only reports one half of the story.

    Where there was a risk - and hence the BofE intervention - was the speed of the change triggered some meeting calls, which could have resulted in forced sales of other assets. That’s why - for example - BT lent its pension fund £300m during the process.
  • Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    "Maximising the GE24 result" is what bothers me about Sir Keir, I think - that's supposed to be a means to an end not an end in itself. I'd rather he had a 40 majority and a decent plan of what to do with it than a 100 majority and no such plan.
    A "plan" is a bit much to expect - but hopefully there'll be the impression of integrity and competence plus some workable proposals in the manifesto to improve the lives of ordinary people.
    Wow. If that's the case, no wonder I'm bothered by him!
    But you weren't bothered by Johnson who had no post Brexit plan.

    When Labour propose an economic recovery plan, let's face it, you won't like it anyway.
    Boris at least had a plan to end the antidemocratic nonsense of the 2017 parliament.

    As for the latter point - we'll have to see it to judge on that!
    Anti-democratic? Parliament was sovereign even if you didn't like it.

    Johnson's post election plan was simply to "do Brexit". He had no idea what that meant. The biggest dilemma facing the May Parliament was resolving the Irish issue. Johnson "resolved" that by putting a border in the North Channel. How is that working?
    Yes, and for about the eleventy billionth time we elect Parliament to do our bidding. A direct instruction in a referendum democratically trumps "we're MPs, so ner".
    I'd say we elect Parliament to take well-informed, difficult decisions about subjects we know little about. From this perspective calling a referendum was a dereliction of duty.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,596
    Endillion said:

    Serious misunderstanding of the pensions issue in the header:
    - No-one in receipt of a final salary / defined benefit pension scheme will ever notice the impact on their scheme from LDI, because the obligation to make good on any shortfall sits with the sponsor. It would only matter if a sponsor went bust as a direct result, which a) hasn't happened yet, b) probably won't happen, and c) even if it did you still get most of the money back via the PPF.
    - No-one paying contributions into a scheme was affected, because LDI doesn't really apply to defined contribution schemes.
    - Finally, the long term overall effect of Kwarteng's budget would likely have been positive for DB pension schemes, because they benefit from increased interest rates discounting the value of their liabilities rather more than they lose out from having to do the same to their assets, assuming the value of equities/property/other non-bond instruments doesn't also tank at the same time. The issue was short term liquidity, not long term structural problems.

    In short: a big issue, yes, albeit one the advisors to corporate trustees really should have done more to prevent. But not going to be an issue with the public.

    ???

    The header correctly says that the Truss Kwarteng fiasco '...could have cost the UK pensions industry up to £75 billion.'

    Nothing misleading about that, shirley?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,391
    rcs1000 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"

    I must admit to being slightly surprised by this.

    Euronext is bigger than the LSE, sure, but that's because the LSE is (basically) just London. While Euronext is Paris + Amsterdam + Milan + Oslo + Lisbon + Dublin.

    France has one massive company by market cap (LVMH), but the UK has AstraZeneca, Shell, BP, Unlever, GlaxoSmithKline, and HSBC - all of which are going to be $100bn+ companies.
    So are L'Oréal, hermes, dior, sanofi and total energie it says here

    https://companiesmarketcap.com/france/largest-companies-in-france-by-market-cap/

    Bit worrying so much money tied up in silk ties and shampoo
    Four of the top five French companies - by market cap - are luxury goods. There you go.
    Luxury goods sales to China seem to be bucking the trend. LVMH and Hermes shares have gone up a lot in the last six months.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678
    Another bit of modern NATO kit taken out.
    Lancet drone ? They seem to be one of the few Russian weapons that has proved quite effective.

    https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1592188538329890816
    A destroyed Ukrainian Zuzana 2 155mm self-propelled howitzer, which was purchased from Slovakia.

    It is currently unknown when and where it was destroyed.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,596
    Nigelb said:

    Obviously.

    Russia has sanctioned Jim Carrey and Margaret Atwood for being "directly involved in forming an aggressive anti-Russian tendency
    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1592180838086873088


    Badge of honour. Many celebs will be disappointed to be overlooked - the message to them is 'must try harder'.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit was a shit idea. No 24058362437 in an ongoing series...

    Shapps says post-Brexit replacement of EU's product safety marking being delayed for two years to cut costs for business - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/14/james-cleverly-uk-france-channel-asylum-seekers-rishi-sunak-g20-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b#block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b

    Whats the sodding point? Our standards are their standards are our standards. And with the EU market so much larger its a pointless faff making up our own special marking. Hence so many things now wearing both UK and CE markings.
    If its the same standards then you put both UKCA and CE markings down. Its done by a printer normally, it can handle both in a template. No harm, no foul, no loss.

    If the standards differ, then its because we've chosen to differ them, or they've chosen to and we've chosen not to copy, which makes having our own standard valuable to cope with that.

    Seems like rather a no win, no fee kind of situation. If there's no reason not to have our own standards, just print UK next to theirs at no extra cost, but if there is, then its better to have them and not need them, than need them but not have them.
    A lot of CE is ISO derived.
    Indeed, and yet the EU still insists on a CE marking rather than an ISO marking.

    The UK requiring a UKCA marking is no different really.

    It will just join the array of stamps that are printed on the back of a device. And in the rare event that divergence happens, then its a good thing we have our own stamp. And if it never happens, then just print one stamp next to the other, no big deal.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,978
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Half the Presidents in the world and half the monarchs in history have been adulterers. Being a Saint in your personal life does not mean you will be an effective Head of your country, see Jimmy Carter.

    Religious leaders should normally have impeccable personal lives like the Archbishop of Canterbury or Pope. For Presidents or Kings or PMs it is an optional extra, desirable but not a requirement
    So I guess "The Faith" is now OK with adultery, since its Defender is an adulterer?

    I nice line up of adulterous Tory ex-PMs at the Cenotaph yesterday, btw.
  • Endillion said:

    Serious misunderstanding of the pensions issue in the header:
    - No-one in receipt of a final salary / defined benefit pension scheme will ever notice the impact on their scheme from LDI, because the obligation to make good on any shortfall sits with the sponsor. It would only matter if a sponsor went bust as a direct result, which a) hasn't happened yet, b) probably won't happen, and c) even if it did you still get most of the money back via the PPF.
    - No-one paying contributions into a scheme was affected, because LDI doesn't really apply to defined contribution schemes.
    - Finally, the long term overall effect of Kwarteng's budget would likely have been positive for DB pension schemes, because they benefit from increased interest rates discounting the value of their liabilities rather more than they lose out from having to do the same to their assets, assuming the value of equities/property/other non-bond instruments doesn't also tank at the same time. The issue was short term liquidity, not long term structural problems.

    In short: a big issue, yes, albeit one the advisors to corporate trustees really should have done more to prevent. But not going to be an issue with the public.

    ???

    The header correctly says that the Truss Kwarteng fiasco '...could have cost the UK pensions industry up to £75 billion.'

    Nothing misleading about that, shirley?
    I was given to believe that in the children's playground that is the world financial system stocks are the swings and gilts are the roundabouts and they are judiciously designed to counterbalance each other so that old folk like me can afford to eat and stay warm when we're too knackered to do anything else. Is someone suggesting this may be untrue?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,993
    edited November 2022

    rkrkrk said:

    On the header -> have people actually had their pensions directly reduced over this? I didn't realize that.

    I assumed any costs are just going to be passed onto future pensioners.

    There aren’t really any costs (AIUI).

    Essentially the plan assets fell but the funding liability fells as well (as interest l rates go up the capitalised value of the future payment obligation goes down).

    So hedging worked as it was intended to.

    But the media, in the interests of drama, only reports one half of the story.

    Where there was a risk - and hence the BofE intervention - was the speed of the change triggered some meeting calls, which could have resulted in forced sales of other assets. That’s why - for example - BT lent its pension fund £300m during the process.
    That's pretty much my understanding too. Also 'vicious circle' risk - gilts falling triggering sales of gilts to meet margin calls on money borrowed against gilts.
  • Endillion said:

    Serious misunderstanding of the pensions issue in the header:
    - No-one in receipt of a final salary / defined benefit pension scheme will ever notice the impact on their scheme from LDI, because the obligation to make good on any shortfall sits with the sponsor. It would only matter if a sponsor went bust as a direct result, which a) hasn't happened yet, b) probably won't happen, and c) even if it did you still get most of the money back via the PPF.
    - No-one paying contributions into a scheme was affected, because LDI doesn't really apply to defined contribution schemes.
    - Finally, the long term overall effect of Kwarteng's budget would likely have been positive for DB pension schemes, because they benefit from increased interest rates discounting the value of their liabilities rather more than they lose out from having to do the same to their assets, assuming the value of equities/property/other non-bond instruments doesn't also tank at the same time. The issue was short term liquidity, not long term structural problems.

    In short: a big issue, yes, albeit one the advisors to corporate trustees really should have done more to prevent. But not going to be an issue with the public.

    ???

    The header correctly says that the Truss Kwarteng fiasco '...could have cost the UK pensions industry up to £75 billion.'

    Nothing misleading about that, shirley?
    My lunch today could have cost me up to £3 billion.
    You had lunch with Liz Truss?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,102
    Alistair said:

    So... charges are being brought again Hunter Biden for things not related to Joe Biden in any way. Showing both that he has not been given any corrupt special protection and that the desperate attempt to smear Joe Biden with his son's personal failings was a big nothing?

    The DEEP STATE are more cunning than I thought.

    Or they chose minor misdemeanours that can be settled without prison time but then used as an example to say “he’s already paid his dues”…

    Cunning!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,978

    Endillion said:

    Serious misunderstanding of the pensions issue in the header:
    - No-one in receipt of a final salary / defined benefit pension scheme will ever notice the impact on their scheme from LDI, because the obligation to make good on any shortfall sits with the sponsor. It would only matter if a sponsor went bust as a direct result, which a) hasn't happened yet, b) probably won't happen, and c) even if it did you still get most of the money back via the PPF.
    - No-one paying contributions into a scheme was affected, because LDI doesn't really apply to defined contribution schemes.
    - Finally, the long term overall effect of Kwarteng's budget would likely have been positive for DB pension schemes, because they benefit from increased interest rates discounting the value of their liabilities rather more than they lose out from having to do the same to their assets, assuming the value of equities/property/other non-bond instruments doesn't also tank at the same time. The issue was short term liquidity, not long term structural problems.

    In short: a big issue, yes, albeit one the advisors to corporate trustees really should have done more to prevent. But not going to be an issue with the public.

    ???

    The header correctly says that the Truss Kwarteng fiasco '...could have cost the UK pensions industry up to £75 billion.'

    Nothing misleading about that, shirley?
    My lunch today could have cost me up to £3 billion.
    Does that include the service charge?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    You can still get Senate No Majority at 1.01.
  • US House:

    From CNN - called races 204 Dem 212 GOP.

    Of 19 remaining:

    1. Democrats lead in 9
    2. GOP lead in 10.

    If things go to the current leaders, that’s a 222/213 House which is the reverse of what happened in 2020

    From an untrained review of the outstanding races e the 3 that look riskiest for the GOP where they are leading are the 2 AZ seats and CA-13. But that’s without knowledge of the areas left to report so the margins could quite easily grow so DYOR. I’m assuming Boebert has scraped home.

    Looks to me like GOP range 219-225. I don’t think I can really see a path to a Democratic House.

    At this stage of counting, is NOT georgraphy that matters, but rather differential between ballots counted later than those counted earlier in the process.

    Which is generally due to timing (when voter returned ballot) and odds & ends (whether challenged & provisional ballots get "cured" by voters or otherwise verified and then counted.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899
    How much confidence, if any, do you have in the government to handle the issue of migrants crossing the Channel in small boats?

    A great deal: 1%
    Some: 10%
    Not very much: 40%
    None at all: 41%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/11/14/d489a/1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1592194011548327938/photo/1
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,102
    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    So are you chocolate chip or Maryland?

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899
    NEW: Supreme Court rejects bid by Ariz GOP Chair Kelli Ward to block a Jan. 6 committee subpoena for her phone records. Thomas and Alito dissent. https://twitter.com/GregStohr/status/1592191665879805952/photo/1
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Serious misunderstanding of the pensions issue in the header:
    - No-one in receipt of a final salary / defined benefit pension scheme will ever notice the impact on their scheme from LDI, because the obligation to make good on any shortfall sits with the sponsor. It would only matter if a sponsor went bust as a direct result, which a) hasn't happened yet, b) probably won't happen, and c) even if it did you still get most of the money back via the PPF.
    - No-one paying contributions into a scheme was affected, because LDI doesn't really apply to defined contribution schemes.
    - Finally, the long term overall effect of Kwarteng's budget would likely have been positive for DB pension schemes, because they benefit from increased interest rates discounting the value of their liabilities rather more than they lose out from having to do the same to their assets, assuming the value of equities/property/other non-bond instruments doesn't also tank at the same time. The issue was short term liquidity, not long term structural problems.

    In short: a big issue, yes, albeit one the advisors to corporate trustees really should have done more to prevent. But not going to be an issue with the public.

    ???

    The header correctly says that the Truss Kwarteng fiasco '...could have cost the UK pensions industry up to £75 billion.'

    Nothing misleading about that, shirley?
    ...the cost to the pensions industry is something that affects a very large section of the population...

    No, it doesn't. At least, not in a way that anyone will ever notice.

    ... you can see this being used against the Tories for generations to come.

    No, I can't. At least, not successfully.

    No doubt it will feature in the next general election campaign.

    No, it won't, because no-one will recognise it as having meant anything. Labour will focus on mortgage rates, even though that was nothing to do with Truss/Kwarteng, because it happened at the same time and actually manifests as a tangible effect on people's disposable income.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,968
    In recent months, I have been thinking that, if anything, we should be encouraging the sale of luxury Western goods to Russia. They would have less money to spend on essentials, and it would help divide the oligarchs from ordinary Russians. (I seem to recall reading that one reason morale dropped in Imperial Germany near the end of World War I was the ostentatious displays by war profiteeers.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,445
    edited November 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Half the Presidents in the world and half the monarchs in history have been adulterers. Being a Saint in your personal life does not mean you will be an effective Head of your country, see Jimmy Carter.

    Religious leaders should normally have impeccable personal lives like the Archbishop of Canterbury or Pope. For Presidents or Kings or PMs it is an optional extra, desirable but not a requirement
    So I guess "The Faith" is now OK with adultery, since its Defender is an adulterer?

    I nice line up of adulterous Tory ex-PMs at the Cenotaph yesterday, btw.
    The Church of England was established by an adulterer, Henry VIII, so he could break with Rome and Papal Supremacy and marry Anne Boleyn. What a ridiculous question. The Monarch is only Supreme Governor of the Church of England, its Leader is the Archbishop of Canterbury.

    I haven't heard any evidence May, Cameron or Sunak have been adulterers even if Major, Johnson and Truss have. Of the 2 Labour PMs Blair has had the Wendy Deng rumours of course but we will give him the benefit of that. Not to mention the Marcia Williams rumours around Wilson when he was Labour PM

  • Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    So are you chocolate chip or Maryland?

    Had to google "Maryland cookie" as was previously unknown to me and about 99.46% of Americans, including Marylanders.

    Anyway, seems it's a brand and not a specific cookie (or biscuit for you biscuit-taking Brits!)

    Reminds me of the first time I was in London, and saw signs advertising "Tennessee Fried Chicken" which struck me as semi-hilarious.

    Fried chicken being well-known in Tennessee (naturally) but "Tennessee Fried Chicken" being unknown in the Volunteer State as well as other 49.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,445
    Scott_xP said:

    How much confidence, if any, do you have in the government to handle the issue of migrants crossing the Channel in small boats?

    A great deal: 1%
    Some: 10%
    Not very much: 40%
    None at all: 41%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/11/14/d489a/1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1592194011548327938/photo/1

    We will see what today's deal with Macron's government brings
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,102

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Lol SpaceX has just went and made a bog old advertising purchase on Twitter.

    SpaceX needs to advertise ?
    I thought free publicity was Musk's special genius.
    Probably for Starlink.

    But it sniffs a bit. I really hope that they purchased the ads at the going rate...
    Why does it sniff?

    Private company buying services from another private company.

    On the assumption that there are processes to ensure that the minority investors on both sides are fairly treated there is absolutely nothing wrong with it

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,387

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Half the Presidents in the world and half the monarchs in history have been adulterers. Being a Saint in your personal life does not mean you will be an effective Head of your country, see Jimmy Carter.

    Religious leaders should normally have impeccable personal lives like the Archbishop of Canterbury or Pope. For Presidents or Kings or PMs it is an optional extra, desirable but not a requirement
    So I guess "The Faith" is now OK with adultery, since its Defender is an adulterer?

    I nice line up of adulterous Tory ex-PMs at the Cenotaph yesterday, btw.
    The faith is fine with imperfect people (sinners in the old lingo) or it would have no members and no leaders.

  • Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Lol SpaceX has just went and made a bog old advertising purchase on Twitter.

    SpaceX needs to advertise ?
    I thought free publicity was Musk's special genius.
    Probably for Starlink.

    But it sniffs a bit. I really hope that they purchased the ads at the going rate...
    Why does it sniff?

    Private company buying services from another private company.

    On the assumption that there are processes to ensure that the minority investors on both sides are fairly treated there is absolutely nothing wrong with it

    In this case, Elon Musk-melon is using money from one of his companies to (try to) throw a lifeline to another one of his companies.

    Impure and simple. Reckon investors are impressed - NOT.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much confidence, if any, do you have in the government to handle the issue of migrants crossing the Channel in small boats?

    A great deal: 1%
    Some: 10%
    Not very much: 40%
    None at all: 41%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/11/14/d489a/1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1592194011548327938/photo/1

    We will see what today's deal with Macron's government brings
    A large price tag
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    Andy_JS said:

    "Hunt has been dealt a poor hand in the proposed parliamentary constituency boundary changes, which were published last week and become law next summer.

    Hunt's South West Surrey constituency is being split into two, making both new seats highly marginal for the Tories. He's not best pleased at the prospect. 'I need to understand the implications of the report, which are terrible for me personally,' he has said.

    'After proudly representing Godalming, Farnham & Haslemere (and their surrounding villages) for more than 17 years, it looks like I will have to choose between two halves of a constituency that is basically being cut in two — a frankly impossible and heart-breaking choice. There is now a four-week consultation and I will not be rushing this particularly difficult decision.'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11424285/ANDREW-PIERCE-Jeremy-Hunts-headache-Budget-cost-seat.html

    The numbers are what they are, the BCE cannot avoid some stupid or unfair seat divisions, only minimise them.
  • Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    Lol SpaceX has just went and made a bog old advertising purchase on Twitter.

    SpaceX needs to advertise ?
    I thought free publicity was Musk's special genius.
    Probably for Starlink.

    But it sniffs a bit. I really hope that they purchased the ads at the going rate...
    Why does it sniff?

    Private company buying services from another private company.

    On the assumption that there are processes to ensure that the minority investors on both sides are fairly treated there is absolutely nothing wrong with it

    In this case, Elon Musk-melon is using money from one of his companies to (try to) throw a lifeline to another one of his companies.

    Impure and simple. Reckon investors are impressed - NOT.
    Its a bit like Man City getting all these spurious Etihad sponsorship deals.
  • In recent months, I have been thinking that, if anything, we should be encouraging the sale of luxury Western goods to Russia. They would have less money to spend on essentials, and it would help divide the oligarchs from ordinary Russians. (I seem to recall reading that one reason morale dropped in Imperial Germany near the end of World War I was the ostentatious displays by war profiteeers.)

    Had the same thought (sorta) re: Chinese land-pirates and their ongoing demand for luxury goods.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,889
    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much confidence, if any, do you have in the government to handle the issue of migrants crossing the Channel in small boats?

    A great deal: 1%
    Some: 10%
    Not very much: 40%
    None at all: 41%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/11/14/d489a/1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1592194011548327938/photo/1

    We will see what today's deal with Macron's government brings
    A large price tag
    You moaning about it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,604

    In recent months, I have been thinking that, if anything, we should be encouraging the sale of luxury Western goods to Russia. They would have less money to spend on essentials, and it would help divide the oligarchs from ordinary Russians. (I seem to recall reading that one reason morale dropped in Imperial Germany near the end of World War I was the ostentatious displays by war profiteeers.)

    Had the same thought (sorta) re: Chinese land-pirates and their ongoing demand for luxury goods.
    The question is whether western companies should profit from fraud and theft perpetrated against ordinary Russians or Chinese people by these elites.
  • Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much confidence, if any, do you have in the government to handle the issue of migrants crossing the Channel in small boats?

    A great deal: 1%
    Some: 10%
    Not very much: 40%
    None at all: 41%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/11/14/d489a/1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1592194011548327938/photo/1

    We will see what today's deal with Macron's government brings
    A large price tag
    You moan and groan every day about brexit and our relationship with Europe, but when Macron and Sunak cooperate and a new deal is agreed and signed in Paris you still moan and grown

    You are habitually in a state of brexit despair and Starmar is not about to come to your rescue either

    I genuinely feel sorry for you, there is so much more to life
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Half the Presidents in the world and half the monarchs in history have been adulterers. Being a Saint in your personal life does not mean you will be an effective Head of your country, see Jimmy Carter.

    Religious leaders should normally have impeccable personal lives like the Archbishop of Canterbury or Pope. For Presidents or Kings or PMs it is an optional extra, desirable but not a requirement
    So I guess "The Faith" is now OK with adultery, since its Defender is an adulterer?

    I nice line up of adulterous Tory ex-PMs at the Cenotaph yesterday, btw.
    The Church of England was established by an adulterer, Henry VIII, so he could break with Rome and Papal Supremacy and marry Anne Boleyn. What a ridiculous question. The Monarch is only Supreme Governor of the Church of England, its Leader is the Archbishop of Canterbury.

    I haven't heard any evidence May, Cameron or Sunak have been adulterers even if Major, Johnson and Truss have. Of the 2 Labour PMs Blair has had the Wendy Deng rumours of course but we will give him the benefit of that. Not to mention the Marcia Williams rumours around Wilson when he was Labour PM

    37th Article:

    XXXVII. Of the Civil Magistrates.

    THE Queen's Majesty hath the chief power in this realm of England and other her dominions, unto whom the chief government of all estates of this realm, whether they be ecclesiastical or civil, in all causes doth appertain, and is not nor ought to be subject to any foreign jurisdiction.

    Where we attribute to the Queen's Majesty the chief government, by which titles we understand the minds of some slanderous folks to be offended, we give not to our princes the ministering either of God's word or of sacraments, the which thing the Injunctions also lately set forth by Elizabeth our Queen doth most plainly testify: but that only prerogative which we see to have been given always to all godly princes in Holy Scriptures by God himself, that is, that they should rule all estates and degrees committed to their charge by God, whether they be ecclesiastical or temporal, and restrain with the civil sword the stubborn and evil-doers. The Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction in this realm of England.

    The Laws of the Realm may punish Christian men with death for heinous and grievous offences.

    It is lawful for Christian men at the commandment of the Magistrate to wear weapons and serve in the wars.


    So there.
  • kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hunt has been dealt a poor hand in the proposed parliamentary constituency boundary changes, which were published last week and become law next summer.

    Hunt's South West Surrey constituency is being split into two, making both new seats highly marginal for the Tories. He's not best pleased at the prospect. 'I need to understand the implications of the report, which are terrible for me personally,' he has said.

    'After proudly representing Godalming, Farnham & Haslemere (and their surrounding villages) for more than 17 years, it looks like I will have to choose between two halves of a constituency that is basically being cut in two — a frankly impossible and heart-breaking choice. There is now a four-week consultation and I will not be rushing this particularly difficult decision.'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11424285/ANDREW-PIERCE-Jeremy-Hunts-headache-Budget-cost-seat.html

    The numbers are what they are, the BCE cannot avoid some stupid or unfair seat divisions, only minimise them.
    Perhaps Jeremy Hunt should leave his (current) snakepit, fly to Phoenix and join Kari Lake at her next press conference?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hunt has been dealt a poor hand in the proposed parliamentary constituency boundary changes, which were published last week and become law next summer.

    Hunt's South West Surrey constituency is being split into two, making both new seats highly marginal for the Tories. He's not best pleased at the prospect. 'I need to understand the implications of the report, which are terrible for me personally,' he has said.

    'After proudly representing Godalming, Farnham & Haslemere (and their surrounding villages) for more than 17 years, it looks like I will have to choose between two halves of a constituency that is basically being cut in two — a frankly impossible and heart-breaking choice. There is now a four-week consultation and I will not be rushing this particularly difficult decision.'"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11424285/ANDREW-PIERCE-Jeremy-Hunts-headache-Budget-cost-seat.html

    The numbers are what they are, the BCE cannot avoid some stupid or unfair seat divisions, only minimise them.
    Perhaps Jeremy Hunt should leave his (current) snakepit, fly to Phoenix and join Kari Lake at her next press conference?
    Hudson, sir. He's Hicks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    But using an analogy between adulterers and mass murderers is firmly logical?

    Arguing whose heads of state are the biggest adulterers is light hearted stuff, since I really doubt whether many people, disapprove thought they do, would rule someone out because they were an adulterer.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,370

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead is twenty-three points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 27% (-2)
    Lab 50% (+3)
    Lib Dem 6% (-3)
    Other 17% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 10th - 14th November 2022
    Sample: 1,060 GB adults
    (Changes from 4th - 7th November 2022) https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1592175611375763457/photo/1

    SBCOTS. Greater than moe move to Labour, after RS inception.
    Lib Dems on 6

    I think these polls are silly
    Lib Dem on six is because the Starmergasm has gobbled it up for silly 50+ scores they won’t be getting anywhere near in General Election. Which is why I argue don’t look at size of lead to work out where things are, look at the Con % for how they are climbing back up into contention.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    edited November 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much confidence, if any, do you have in the government to handle the issue of migrants crossing the Channel in small boats?

    A great deal: 1%
    Some: 10%
    Not very much: 40%
    None at all: 41%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/11/14/d489a/1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1592194011548327938/photo/1

    We will see what today's deal with Macron's government brings
    A large price tag
    Seems pretty small change in the grand scheme of things. If we want a deal we need to provide something they want, and cash qualifies.

    What should be provided instead?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Tories buckling again
    Labour leads by 24%, a 3-point increase since our last poll.

    Westminster Voting Intention (13 November):

    Labour 50% (+1)
    Conservative 26% (-2)
    Liberal Democrat 9% (-2)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 4% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 9-10 November

    redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voti…
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,402

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Half the Presidents in the world and half the monarchs in history have been adulterers. Being a Saint in your personal life does not mean you will be an effective Head of your country, see Jimmy Carter.

    Religious leaders should normally have impeccable personal lives like the Archbishop of Canterbury or Pope. For Presidents or Kings or PMs it is an optional extra, desirable but not a requirement
    So I guess "The Faith" is now OK with adultery, since its Defender is an adulterer?

    I nice line up of adulterous Tory ex-PMs at the Cenotaph yesterday, btw.
    Idly wondering how many monarchs since Henry VIII were NOT adulterers....
  • Impending White House Wedding - with Joe Biden's grand-daughter (Hunter Biden's daughter) as the Bride.

    As discussed a while back by two of my favorite celebrity women - Jill Biden and Kelli Clarkson

    First Lady Jill Biden & Kelly Toast Upcoming White House Wedding With Martinis & French Fries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-l9qKzUj5Y

    PLUS another bonus clip from "The Kelli Clarkson Show":

    LeVar Burton & Kelly Clarkson Compete In Spelling Bee Hosted By First Lady Jill Biden
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzylv5eNJNY
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899
    Why are we paying the French to control our borders?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899
    folks,,,it is going to be a good day on twitter. this dude is about to learn what game devs have known for years. "we left the bowling ball inside the wall because otherwise the game crashes"

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1592177471654604800
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,391
    Scott_xP said:

    Why are we paying the French to control our borders?

    As the foremost advocate of sending money across the Channel in return for political cooperation, I'm sure you can come up with an argument.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Impending White House Wedding - with Joe Biden's grand-daughter (Hunter Biden's daughter) as the Bride.

    As discussed a while back by two of my favorite celebrity women - Jill Biden and Kelli Clarkson

    First Lady Jill Biden & Kelly Toast Upcoming White House Wedding With Martinis & French Fries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-l9qKzUj5Y

    PLUS another bonus clip from "The Kelli Clarkson Show":

    LeVar Burton & Kelly Clarkson Compete In Spelling Bee Hosted By First Lady Jill Biden
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzylv5eNJNY

    Will we get a bank holiday?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,102

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    He invented the Johnson variant

    That was pure genius
    That was a misstep but there hasn't been that many. I think the lead Labour have now is only a third froth. I see it staying in double digits all the way to the election.
    Much as I think a some of @Heathener's posts are just partisan hope casting, I do think something has snapped with the electorate and there is no hope for a Tory government after the next election. The only thing for them is scale of defeat. And that is crucial for the election after next.
    Labour don't have the answers - no-one does really. I think as a nation we need to pay more tax to get the public services we say we want. We need desperately to fix social care - I'd be shipping in overseas care staff to live in with those who need 24 hour care - au pairs for the aged. Then the person needing care stays in their own home, the carer gets free accommodation and we can start freeing up hospital beds.

    But really, its hard to see a labour government becoming hugely popular in time for say 2028.
    How do you manage safeguarding and elder abuse?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899

    Scott_xP said:

    Why are we paying the French to control our borders?

    As the foremost advocate of sending money across the Channel in return for political cooperation, I'm sure you can come up with an argument.
    But "we took back control"

    Why are we paying them to do it?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    edited November 2022

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    "Maximising the GE24 result" is what bothers me about Sir Keir, I think - that's supposed to be a means to an end not an end in itself. I'd rather he had a 40 majority and a decent plan of what to do with it than a 100 majority and no such plan.
    A "plan" is a bit much to expect - but hopefully there'll be the impression of integrity and competence plus some workable proposals in the manifesto to improve the lives of ordinary people.
    Wow. If that's the case, no wonder I'm bothered by him!
    But you weren't bothered by Johnson who had no post Brexit plan.

    When Labour propose an economic recovery plan, let's face it, you won't like it anyway.
    Boris at least had a plan to end the antidemocratic nonsense of the 2017 parliament.

    As for the latter point - we'll have to see it to judge on that!
    Anti-democratic? Parliament was sovereign even if you didn't like it.

    Johnson's post election plan was simply to "do Brexit". He had no idea what that meant. The biggest dilemma facing the May Parliament was resolving the Irish issue. Johnson "resolved" that by putting a border in the North Channel. How is that working?
    Yes, and for about the eleventy billionth time we elect Parliament to do our bidding. A direct instruction in a referendum democratically trumps "we're MPs, so ner".
    I'd say we elect Parliament to take well-informed, difficult decisions about subjects we know little about. From this perspective calling a referendum was a dereliction of duty.
    Whether it was or not I really do not know why even now people whinge about the referendum not being a binding commitment.

    It simply wasn't. Not legally. No amount of indeed legitimate talk of moral cases changes that. Nor statements from ministers. Referendums are not a direct instruction unless the authorising act says so in law, particularly when several so called Brexiteers were the ones refusing to back a Brexit as there were many options.

    I voted leave and wanted May's deal to pass, but facts are facts. The public did not like parliament dicking about and voted accordingly in 2019 - that's how it works.

    It doesn't undermine Leave to accept that direct instruction was not a legal thing. Indeed, it helps leave to acknowledge that by showing how opponents (and stupid leavers in parliament refusing to play ball) tried to legalese around things.

    As they were democratically entitled to. But they faced the consequences for that.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,595
    On topic.

    QTWTAIN. The Truss budget deserves to be hung around the Tory party's neck for a generation. You simply do not screw up to that extent and get away with it.

    The fallout continues...

    "London loses position as most valuable European stock market"



  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Half the Presidents in the world and half the monarchs in history have been adulterers. Being a Saint in your personal life does not mean you will be an effective Head of your country, see Jimmy Carter.

    Religious leaders should normally have impeccable personal lives like the Archbishop of Canterbury or Pope. For Presidents or Kings or PMs it is an optional extra, desirable but not a requirement
    So I guess "The Faith" is now OK with adultery, since its Defender is an adulterer?

    I nice line up of adulterous Tory ex-PMs at the Cenotaph yesterday, btw.
    Idly wondering how many monarchs since Henry VIII were NOT adulterers....
    Queens Elizabeth I, Mary, Anne, Victoria and Elizabeth II would be my nominations.

    Mary & Vicki NOT being married when they had their flings (Earl of Essex & John Brown respectively) though personally doubt that the fellows involved actually scored any royal home runs, as opposed to (maybe) getting to first base.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899
    First negative net approval rating for Rishi Sunak since he became Prime Minister.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (13 November):

    Disapprove: 30% (–)
    Approve: 26% (-5)
    Net: -4% (-5)

    Changes +/- 9-10 November

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-13-november-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1592203265361444864/photo/1
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Why are we paying the French to control our borders?

    As the foremost advocate of sending money across the Channel in return for political cooperation, I'm sure you can come up with an argument.
    But "we took back control"

    Why are we paying them to do it?
    We took back control of *legal* immigration by ending FOM.

    Look at the italy/France stand off for an example of how illegal immigration issues transcend EU solidarity.

    I am strongly opposed to Brexit, but this is not a point.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Why are we paying the French to control our borders?

    Parce que nous avons en main toutes les cartes.


    Look, it's a sensible way forward, and cheaper, and more effective than other plans we could mention.

    But a brief silence in memory of the ideal of unilateral control of borders is in order.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Tories buckling again
    Labour leads by 24%, a 3-point increase since our last poll.

    Westminster Voting Intention (13 November):

    Labour 50% (+1)
    Conservative 26% (-2)
    Liberal Democrat 9% (-2)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 4% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 9-10 November

    redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voti…

    End of the Sunak bounce / Truss unwind?
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Rumours that Ukraine may have taken a town on the far side of the Dnipro.

    News coming in from #Olehsky, UA forces seem to have liberated the town. 🇷🇺 forces left after a heavy barrage of artillery & HIMARS fire all night and morning. Apperently 🇺🇦 SOF entered the city this morning.

    Caution this news is still un-confirmed.

    https://twitter.com/NLwartracker/status/1592195331181416448?t=obCaM87DJnmsNksVm0yAAg&s=19
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,391
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Why are we paying the French to control our borders?

    As the foremost advocate of sending money across the Channel in return for political cooperation, I'm sure you can come up with an argument.
    But "we took back control"

    Why are we paying them to do it?
    Why does the EU pay Turkey to control its borders?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Why are we paying the French to control our borders?

    As the foremost advocate of sending money across the Channel in return for political cooperation, I'm sure you can come up with an argument.
    But "we took back control"

    Why are we paying them to do it?
    Why does the EU pay Turkey to control its borders?
    Cos they haven't "taken back control" like we did...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,102

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit was a shit idea. No 24058362437 in an ongoing series...

    Shapps says post-Brexit replacement of EU's product safety marking being delayed for two years to cut costs for business - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/14/james-cleverly-uk-france-channel-asylum-seekers-rishi-sunak-g20-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b#block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b

    Whats the sodding point? Our standards are their standards are our standards. And with the EU market so much larger its a pointless faff making up our own special marking. Hence so many things now wearing both UK and CE markings.
    If its the same standards then you put both UKCA and CE markings down. Its done by a printer normally, it can handle both in a template. No harm, no foul, no loss.

    If the standards differ, then its because we've chosen to differ them, or they've chosen to and we've chosen not to copy, which makes having our own standard valuable to cope with that.

    Seems like rather a no win, no fee kind of situation. If there's no reason not to have our own standards, just print UK next to theirs at no extra cost, but if there is, then its better to have them and not need them, than need them but not have them.
    The cost is the time and the faff involved in having products approved by the relevant agency
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,370

    Tories buckling again
    Labour leads by 24%, a 3-point increase since our last poll.

    Westminster Voting Intention (13 November):

    Labour 50% (+1)
    Conservative 26% (-2)
    Liberal Democrat 9% (-2)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 4% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 9-10 November

    redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voti…

    The first thing people will do is look at what happened in past week, resignations for example, and blame Con drop on that. Yes, in this case Truth is it might just be New PM bounce dipping off as Sunak begins to look a bit similar to his predecessors on ethics.

    There’s positives here for the conservatives. Reform has not moved upwards. And they can claim they have two years to do good things to earn trust. They can say, pah, we didn’t expect serious moves in first two weeks, let us get to work first.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,391
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Why are we paying the French to control our borders?

    As the foremost advocate of sending money across the Channel in return for political cooperation, I'm sure you can come up with an argument.
    But "we took back control"

    Why are we paying them to do it?
    Why does the EU pay Turkey to control its borders?
    Cos they haven't "taken back control" like we did...
    You're being incredibly childish.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited November 2022

    Tories buckling again
    Labour leads by 24%, a 3-point increase since our last poll.

    Westminster Voting Intention (13 November):

    Labour 50% (+1)
    Conservative 26% (-2)
    Liberal Democrat 9% (-2)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 4% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 9-10 November

    redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voti…

    End of the Sunak bounce / Truss unwind?
    Looks that way as approval and best PM are also turning. Looks like baseline Rishi is 26 to 30% support and 17 to 25 deficit

    Edit - although its all still MoE stuff of course
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,445
    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Half the Presidents in the world and half the monarchs in history have been adulterers. Being a Saint in your personal life does not mean you will be an effective Head of your country, see Jimmy Carter.

    Religious leaders should normally have impeccable personal lives like the Archbishop of Canterbury or Pope. For Presidents or Kings or PMs it is an optional extra, desirable but not a requirement
    So I guess "The Faith" is now OK with adultery, since its Defender is an adulterer?

    I nice line up of adulterous Tory ex-PMs at the Cenotaph yesterday, btw.
    The Church of England was established by an adulterer, Henry VIII, so he could break with Rome and Papal Supremacy and marry Anne Boleyn. What a ridiculous question. The Monarch is only Supreme Governor of the Church of England, its Leader is the Archbishop of Canterbury.

    I haven't heard any evidence May, Cameron or Sunak have been adulterers even if Major, Johnson and Truss have. Of the 2 Labour PMs Blair has had the Wendy Deng rumours of course but we will give him the benefit of that. Not to mention the Marcia Williams rumours around Wilson when he was Labour PM

    37th Article:

    XXXVII. Of the Civil Magistrates.

    THE Queen's Majesty hath the chief power in this realm of England and other her dominions, unto whom the chief government of all estates of this realm, whether they be ecclesiastical or civil, in all causes doth appertain, and is not nor ought to be subject to any foreign jurisdiction.

    Where we attribute to the Queen's Majesty the chief government, by which titles we understand the minds of some slanderous folks to be offended, we give not to our princes the ministering either of God's word or of sacraments, the which thing the Injunctions also lately set forth by Elizabeth our Queen doth most plainly testify: but that only prerogative which we see to have been given always to all godly princes in Holy Scriptures by God himself, that is, that they should rule all estates and degrees committed to their charge by God, whether they be ecclesiastical or temporal, and restrain with the civil sword the stubborn and evil-doers. The Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction in this realm of England.

    The Laws of the Realm may punish Christian men with death for heinous and grievous offences.

    It is lawful for Christian men at the commandment of the Magistrate to wear weapons and serve in the wars.


    So there.
    So as that clearly says the Monarch is not a priest, they do not preach the word of the Bible or administer the sacraments. They merely rule the nation by grace of God and free of Papal Supremacy and ensure troops can be sent into battle and the worst crimes punished.

    So there!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,978
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Half the Presidents in the world and half the monarchs in history have been adulterers. Being a Saint in your personal life does not mean you will be an effective Head of your country, see Jimmy Carter.

    Religious leaders should normally have impeccable personal lives like the Archbishop of Canterbury or Pope. For Presidents or Kings or PMs it is an optional extra, desirable but not a requirement
    So I guess "The Faith" is now OK with adultery, since its Defender is an adulterer?

    I nice line up of adulterous Tory ex-PMs at the Cenotaph yesterday, btw.
    The Church of England was established by an adulterer, Henry VIII, so he could break with Rome and Papal Supremacy and marry Anne Boleyn. What a ridiculous question. The Monarch is only Supreme Governor of the Church of England, its Leader is the Archbishop of Canterbury.

    I haven't heard any evidence May, Cameron or Sunak have been adulterers even if Major, Johnson and Truss have. Of the 2 Labour PMs Blair has had the Wendy Deng rumours of course but we will give him the benefit of that. Not to mention the Marcia Williams rumours around Wilson when he was Labour PM

    Was Henry an adulterer? Or did he wait until the previous wife was divorced or dead before he started banging the next one?

    Either way, less of a role model than Jesus, the Buddha or Guru Nanak. Maybe on a par with the Prophet. And yet his is the faith you choose to follow.

    So only 50% of recent Tory PMs are adulterers. Fair enough.
  • Impending White House Wedding - with Joe Biden's grand-daughter (Hunter Biden's daughter) as the Bride.

    As discussed a while back by two of my favorite celebrity women - Jill Biden and Kelli Clarkson

    First Lady Jill Biden & Kelly Toast Upcoming White House Wedding With Martinis & French Fries
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-l9qKzUj5Y

    PLUS another bonus clip from "The Kelli Clarkson Show":

    LeVar Burton & Kelly Clarkson Compete In Spelling Bee Hosted By First Lady Jill Biden
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzylv5eNJNY

    Will we get a bank holiday?
    No. And no such thing as "bank holiday" in USA. Just legal holidays . . . which White House weddings ain't.

    My point in posting this, is to give example of what you might call "soft persuasion" in political sense via American popular media. In this case, a very popular platform aimed at millions of (mostly) young-ish women (that is, from 18 to 80-plus).

    Hollywood Reporter -

    In its fourth season, The Kelly Clarkson Show has its largest station lineup yet as it airs in all 211 local markets in premier time periods across the country. The series is averaging 1.3 million viewers since its September return. That makes it the only syndicated talk show to grow in consecutive seasons — a feat not accomplished since 2014. The show is posting year-over-year double-digit gains in adults 25-54 in many top markets.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/the-kelly-clarkson-show-renewed-2025-1235256793/
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,318
    On the deal with the French, I read that we are coughing up an extra £8m a year (£55m to £63m this year) in an effort to reduce Channel crossings.
    At the same time, we have apparently paid £140m to Rwanda upfront for a scheme that is yet to have any impact (and probably never will have).

    So if we hadn't embarked on the Rwanda scheme, we could have used that £140m (and the future costs of the scheme) instead to increase resources (border force, asylum adjudication staffing etc.) on top of what we're already paying France. Might have made more difference than a mere extra £8m.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Scott_xP said:

    First negative net approval rating for Rishi Sunak since he became Prime Minister.

    Rishi Sunak Approval Rating (13 November):

    Disapprove: 30% (–)
    Approve: 26% (-5)
    Net: -4% (-5)

    Changes +/- 9-10 November

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-13-november-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1592203265361444864/photo/1

    What until people realise it isn't just people who are richer than them who are going to have to pay more tax!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,978

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
    "It's OK for our Kings to be mass murderers because Genghis Khan was a bigger mass murderer."

    Seriously, that's the coruscating logic and quality of apologetics on display here.
    Half the Presidents in the world and half the monarchs in history have been adulterers. Being a Saint in your personal life does not mean you will be an effective Head of your country, see Jimmy Carter.

    Religious leaders should normally have impeccable personal lives like the Archbishop of Canterbury or Pope. For Presidents or Kings or PMs it is an optional extra, desirable but not a requirement
    So I guess "The Faith" is now OK with adultery, since its Defender is an adulterer?

    I nice line up of adulterous Tory ex-PMs at the Cenotaph yesterday, btw.
    Idly wondering how many monarchs since Henry VIII were NOT adulterers....
    Queens Elizabeth I, Mary, Anne, Victoria and Elizabeth II would be my nominations.

    Mary & Vicki NOT being married when they had their flings (Earl of Essex & John Brown respectively) though personally doubt that the fellows involved actually scored any royal home runs, as opposed to (maybe) getting to first base.
    Elizabeth II? Hmmm.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,172
    My understanding of computer networking is a bit ropey, but I thought the basic idea of the internet was to create a computer network that was robust and would carry on working even if multiple parts of the network were lost.

    My experience today, described to me as, "a big internet pipe going down" with the provider of our VPN, suggests that with VPNs (and CDNs) the modern internet has bolted on a bunch of single points of failure. Is that a fair summation?

    How did that happen?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899

    You're being incredibly childish.

    The entire Brexit project was childish.

    A toddler having a temper tantrum, except it costs us billions and trashed the future for millions.

    But the Brexiteers will continue to scweam and scweam about how unfair it to mock them, and I shall continue to do so
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,899
    Starmer leads by 4%, his second lead since Sunak became PM.

    At this moment, which of the following do British voters think would be the better Prime Minister for the UK? (13 November)

    Keir Starmer 40% (+1)
    Rishi Sunak 36% (-2)

    Changes +/- 9-10 November

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-13-november-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1592205774088196096/photo/1
This discussion has been closed.