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Will the Tories ever get over the Kwasi Budget? – politicalbetting.com

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Some names are obvious, though, no need to look them up. Eg you are a biscuit. Although why you chose it is quite interesting. Not that you have to share if it's too personal.
    Predictably, just a derivative of my surname, which I chose without more than 30 seconds thought when I first posted back in 2005 (possibly taking issue with NPMP on a matter relating to cheese, though that would have been reaching peak pb on my first post, so maybe I have made that memory up).
    If I'd thought about it in more detail I might have come up with something more interesting.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    I agree with most of that - but that does not contradict the fact that Starmer has made serious errors. Had Batley & Spen also been lost his position might well have become untenable and he might well have had to step down in Autumn 2021. He lacks a good political brain - and is certainly no Harold Wilson.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    He invented the Johnson variant

    That was pure genius
    That was a misstep but there hasn't been that many. I think the lead Labour have now is only a third froth. I see it staying in double digits all the way to the election.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited November 2022

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    'Selebian' had not occurred to me either. It and 'Kinabalu' are both fine names.

    What really gets my goat are the people who choose to go by the name of historical figures, as if they gain some reflected glory in doing so. Such posters should be immediately banned, especially if the name comes from particularly obscure figures ...

    Ahem.
    Heh, I'd always assumed you were one of our 'genuine name' people. Possibly with slightly old-fashioned parents with a penchant for alliteration.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Indeed. A friend of my brother, who also lived in Selby for a time, told me a day or two before I registered here, "you're a Selebian now, you know". It stuck in my mind when I created the account and was casting round for some kind of username.

    Anyway, that's my story. I might be a famous Ian with spelling issues :wink:
  • Alistair said:

    Nigelb said:

    JPMorgan Reveals Shock ‘Cascade’ Bitcoin Price Prediction After Stunning FTX Meltdown
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2022/11/13/jpmorgan-reveals-shock-cascade-bitcoin-price-prediction-after-stunning-ftx-meltdown/
    ...The researchers said they expect the latest crypto crisis—coming after a series of failures this year—could push the bitcoin price to lows of $13,000 due to a "cascade of margin calls" in the aftermath of the FTX collapse, pointing to bitcoin production costs that are currently around $15,000 per bitcoin...

    Wut ?

    Electricity cost to run Bitcoin mining rig.

    The production cost is always going to be near the current price.
    Until the whole house of cards collapses and the production cost exceeds the current price, at which point problems could mount rather rapidly.

    We must be getting fairly close to a potential breaking point now. It does feel like following the collapse of FTX and the other dodgy scams that were out there, that a sufficiently determined and individual or group with a lot of money behind them could break other scams by shorting and pressuring them until they collapse - a bit like how George Soros made a billion by shorting Sterling.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    "Maximising the GE24 result" is what bothers me about Sir Keir, I think - that's supposed to be a means to an end not an end in itself. I'd rather he had a 40 majority and a decent plan of what to do with it than a 100 majority and no such plan.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Latest German polling average

    Union 27.0%
    SPD 19.7%
    Greens 19.2%
    AfD 14.4%
    FDP 7.0%
    Left 4.5%
    Others 8.2%

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahl_zum_21._Deutschen_Bundestag/Umfragen_und_Prognosen#Dynamische_Sonntagsfrage
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited November 2022
    I'm hoping Hunt extends the VAT break currently on new solar to retrofitting batteries, updated inverters and new panels in the budget.
    I mean he should - not just because it'd benefit me (With my new shiny battery), but it'd also provide an incentive for people to improve their systems. I've concluded I'll be better off long run by just swallowing it but it would help the country in the round too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Some names are obvious, though, no need to look them up. Eg you are a biscuit. Although why you chose it is quite interesting. Not that you have to share if it's too personal.
    Predictably, just a derivative of my surname, which I chose without more than 30 seconds thought when I first posted back in 2005 (possibly taking issue with NPMP on a matter relating to cheese, though that would have been reaching peak pb on my first post, so maybe I have made that memory up).
    If I'd thought about it in more detail I might have come up with something more interesting.
    Ah, I see. Biscuits not relevant then. Bit disappointing. Still, hats off for sticking with one handle for 17 years. Some people feel the need to chop and change which is great but can also be discombobulating.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Looks like the outrageous shadow docket decisions will indeed have ended up being vital

    https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1591640016295694336
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    I agree with most of that - but that does not contradict the fact that Starmer has made serious errors. Had Batley & Spen also been lost his position might well have become untenable and he might well have had to step down in Autumn 2021. He lacks a good political brain - and is certainly no Harold Wilson.
    No, but he doesn't need to be. "He'll do, I suppose" is all you need when your opponent is imploding.
    In the unlikely event that the Tories Get Their Shit Together, Labour may lament not having a political genius in charge who can keep firm hold of the initiative. Short of that, having a leader less strange than the previous three is probably enough.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Some names are obvious, though, no need to look them up. Eg you are a biscuit. Although why you chose it is quite interesting. Not that you have to share if it's too personal.
    Predictably, just a derivative of my surname, which I chose without more than 30 seconds thought when I first posted back in 2005 (possibly taking issue with NPMP on a matter relating to cheese, though that would have been reaching peak pb on my first post, so maybe I have made that memory up).
    If I'd thought about it in more detail I might have come up with something more interesting.
    Ah, I see. Biscuits not relevant then. Bit disappointing. Still, hats off for sticking with one handle for 17 years. Some people feel the need to chop and change which is great but can also be discombobulating.
    What about you then? What's the relevance of kinabalu? A particularly memorable holiday? A childhood nickname? Your actual name (unlikely, but not impossible)?
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    He invented the Johnson variant

    That was pure genius
    That was a misstep but there hasn't been that many. I think the lead Labour have now is only a third froth. I see it staying in double digits all the way to the election.
    Pretending to shop for wallpaper in John Lewis was just the kind of serious action we needed to see from a potential leader
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    DJ41 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: Simon McDonald, Foreign Office perm sec when Dominic Raab was in charge, tells @andrewmarr9 he was “a tough boss”.

    "Do you think the characterisation of him as somebody who could bully, and around whom bullying happened, is a plausible one?" he is asked

    “Yes," he replies.

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1592136625244766208

    This isn't a Dominic Raab/ Gordon Brown/Fiona Hill/ Gavin Williamson/ Priti Patel/ Alistair Campbell thing.

    It's a politics thing.

    They are in high stress jobs, with a lot of personal accountability/risk, far too many have never worked outside politics or learnt basic people skills and they think the way to drive performance from their staff is to shout at them and throw a wobbly, which coincidentally doesn't require them to main self-control behind closed doors and is a bit of a release for them.

    You need to be always show respect to everyone: be firm & clear but fair on poor performance, always maintaining self-control, and recognise/celebrate good performance. You also need to set an example.

    These are basic leadership skills that apply in all human endeavours. They apply just as much to politics as everywhere else.
    I also imagine that the challenge is that the minister isn't the manager of the department they head. They can't fire civil servants, only their own advisors. So I can see where even someone who is a very effective business manager suddenly becomes ineffective - they can see the processes / people who are the problem but can do very little about it...
    Yes. That's a big issue. The Minister needs more than anything to motivate their department, but they have no control over the levers of incentive and disincentive. The system is actually very Victorian - depending on totally impartial civil servants scribbling away by candlelight in cold offices just to implement the will of the Government. Those people don't exist anymore.
    The British civil service was established in the 1870s on the Chinese model.
    The schools that were ~reformed at the same time in what was essentially the same process still exist.

    Does anybody think politicians would be better at running the state than civil servants? I'm not on either of their sides. Just wondering. Politicians?
    All things being equal no. But politicians are motivated by the electorate.

    Let's say, as a mad example, the civil service doesn't want to leave the EU - for years they've worked behind the scenes to harmonise and smooth our path to complete integration - it has become ingrained into the very bones of the organisation. A new Government may come bustling in determined to make it work, but what motivates those civil servants to actually implement such changes - changes that set us on a different path, making their cherished hope of Britain at the heart of Europe become more distant and difficult?

    We saw with the Truss Government that when a new PM comes in, they face huge pressure to go with 'the grain' - forces as wide-ranging as the IMF and the US President lined up to oppose them. To have actually been an effective Government, they would have had to have snake like cunning and patience to take control of the whole thing step by step. Instead they provided an object lesson in how inneffectual elected politicians actually are.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Brexit was a shit idea. No 24058362437 in an ongoing series...

    Shapps says post-Brexit replacement of EU's product safety marking being delayed for two years to cut costs for business - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/14/james-cleverly-uk-france-channel-asylum-seekers-rishi-sunak-g20-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b#block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm hoping Hunt extends the VAT break currently on new solar to retrofitting batteries, updated inverters and new panels in the budget.
    I mean he should - not just because it'd benefit me (With my new shiny battery), but it'd also provide an incentive for people to improve their systems. I've concluded I'll be better off long run by just swallowing it but it would help the country in the round too.

    One thing I note on this is that I'd have been able to get the money interest free (Instead of at 4.7%) if I lived in Scotland with their home-renewables scheme.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Alistair said:

    Nigelb said:

    JPMorgan Reveals Shock ‘Cascade’ Bitcoin Price Prediction After Stunning FTX Meltdown
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2022/11/13/jpmorgan-reveals-shock-cascade-bitcoin-price-prediction-after-stunning-ftx-meltdown/
    ...The researchers said they expect the latest crypto crisis—coming after a series of failures this year—could push the bitcoin price to lows of $13,000 due to a "cascade of margin calls" in the aftermath of the FTX collapse, pointing to bitcoin production costs that are currently around $15,000 per bitcoin...

    Wut ?

    Electricity cost to run Bitcoin mining rig.

    The production cost is always going to be near the current price.
    Or the production cost exceeds the current price and the whole thing comes crashing down.

    An alternative (aka completely dodgy) banking system that uses the energy requirements of the Netherlands deserves to die.
  • Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    I agree with most of that - but that does not contradict the fact that Starmer has made serious errors. Had Batley & Spen also been lost his position might well have become untenable and he might well have had to step down in Autumn 2021. He lacks a good political brain - and is certainly no Harold Wilson.
    No, but he doesn't need to be. "He'll do, I suppose" is all you need when your opponent is imploding.
    In the unlikely event that the Tories Get Their Shit Together, Labour may lament not having a political genius in charge who can keep firm hold of the initiative. Short of that, having a leader less strange than the previous three is probably enough.
    Though in the party political grief cycle, Labour are still meant to be at the Kinnock/ Howard "paying the price for choosing a nutter as leader, the aim is to repair the internal damage and not lose too badly so that the election after next is winnable" stage. Sunak is trying to do much the same, from the more exposed position of being in office.

    From that point of view, Starmer made perfect sense and he has done what was needed with admirable efficiency. Even that wouldn't have been enough for Starmer to be considered as next PM had the Conservatives not chosen a sequence of really terrible leaders.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Well, we all know you’re a biscuit, at least.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm hoping Hunt extends the VAT break currently on new solar to retrofitting batteries, updated inverters and new panels in the budget.
    I mean he should - not just because it'd benefit me (With my new shiny battery), but it'd also provide an incentive for people to improve their systems. I've concluded I'll be better off long run by just swallowing it but it would help the country in the round too.

    One thing I note on this is that I'd have been able to get the money interest free (Instead of at 4.7%) if I lived in Scotland with their home-renewables scheme.
    Out of interest, do you have a rough set of figures to hand for it - spec, cost, savings per year. payback etc? Have thought about adding a battery a few times, but not been convinced the money makes sense.

    Also still in FiT agreement, so need to pop it in after the solar meter (i.e. on the AC supply) to avoid messing with that, I guess? Seems more obvious to put the battery before the inverter, but again I haven't looked at this in detail.

    Agree with the point. Would be very sensible to do everything possible to encourage battery adoption, residential and commercial.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    'if we hadn't had Brexit we probably wouldn't be talking about an austerity Budget this week' https://twitter.com/BloombergTV/status/1592109834664648704
  • Scott_xP said:

    Brexit was a shit idea. No 24058362437 in an ongoing series...

    Shapps says post-Brexit replacement of EU's product safety marking being delayed for two years to cut costs for business - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/14/james-cleverly-uk-france-channel-asylum-seekers-rishi-sunak-g20-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b#block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b

    Well there's a surprise. Yet another totally bonkers anti-growth idea which even this government is slowly beginning to realise won't stand contact with reality.

    The trouble is that the continued uncertainty about just how bonkers the government is and whether they will U-turn in time inevitably hits business confidence and therefore investment.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Scott_xP said:

    'if we hadn't had Brexit we probably wouldn't be talking about an austerity Budget this week' https://twitter.com/BloombergTV/status/1592109834664648704

    We'd still be talking about Brexit, instead. Or the campaign for a new vote and arguing how long a generation was :wink:
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    .

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    I agree with most of that - but that does not contradict the fact that Starmer has made serious errors. Had Batley & Spen also been lost his position might well have become untenable and he might well have had to step down in Autumn 2021. He lacks a good political brain - and is certainly no Harold Wilson.
    No, but he doesn't need to be. "He'll do, I suppose" is all you need when your opponent is imploding.
    In the unlikely event that the Tories Get Their Shit Together, Labour may lament not having a political genius in charge who can keep firm hold of the initiative. Short of that, having a leader less strange than the previous three is probably enough.
    Though in the party political grief cycle, Labour are still meant to be at the Kinnock/ Howard "paying the price for choosing a nutter as leader, the aim is to repair the internal damage and not lose too badly so that the election after next is winnable" stage. Sunak is trying to do much the same, from the more exposed position of being in office.

    From that point of view, Starmer made perfect sense and he has done what was needed with admirable efficiency. Even that wouldn't have been enough for Starmer to be considered as next PM had the Conservatives not chosen a sequence of really terrible leaders.
    So, really, was Cameron before the GFC - when elected he was expected to need two terms to get a majority. And, indeed, that's how it turned out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Some names are obvious, though, no need to look them up. Eg you are a biscuit. Although why you chose it is quite interesting. Not that you have to share if it's too personal.
    Predictably, just a derivative of my surname, which I chose without more than 30 seconds thought when I first posted back in 2005 (possibly taking issue with NPMP on a matter relating to cheese, though that would have been reaching peak pb on my first post, so maybe I have made that memory up).
    If I'd thought about it in more detail I might have come up with something more interesting.
    Probably just as well you didn't.
    You might have ended up an Osborne Biscuit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    So when do we expect Lavrov to fall out of a window?

    Let's hope he grabs on to Putin as he does.

    With Putin grabbing on to Medvedev.

    Who was clutching Alexander Dugin.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    He invented the Johnson variant

    That was pure genius
    That was a misstep but there hasn't been that many. I think the lead Labour have now is only a third froth. I see it staying in double digits all the way to the election.
    Much as I think a some of @Heathener's posts are just partisan hope casting, I do think something has snapped with the electorate and there is no hope for a Tory government after the next election. The only thing for them is scale of defeat. And that is crucial for the election after next.
    Labour don't have the answers - no-one does really. I think as a nation we need to pay more tax to get the public services we say we want. We need desperately to fix social care - I'd be shipping in overseas care staff to live in with those who need 24 hour care - au pairs for the aged. Then the person needing care stays in their own home, the carer gets free accommodation and we can start freeing up hospital beds.

    But really, its hard to see a labour government becoming hugely popular in time for say 2028.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    "Maximising the GE24 result" is what bothers me about Sir Keir, I think - that's supposed to be a means to an end not an end in itself. I'd rather he had a 40 majority and a decent plan of what to do with it than a 100 majority and no such plan.
    A "plan" is a bit much to expect - but hopefully there'll be the impression of integrity and competence plus some workable proposals in the manifesto to improve the lives of ordinary people.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    IanB2 said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Well, we all know you’re a biscuit, at least.
    It appears not.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    "Maximising the GE24 result" is what bothers me about Sir Keir, I think - that's supposed to be a means to an end not an end in itself. I'd rather he had a 40 majority and a decent plan of what to do with it than a 100 majority and no such plan.
    A "plan" is a bit much to expect - but hopefully there'll be the impression of integrity and competence plus some workable proposals in the manifesto to improve the lives of ordinary people.
    Wow. If that's the case, no wonder I'm bothered by him!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    I hope he Tweeted that.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Alistair said:

    Lol SpaceX has just went and made a bog old advertising purchase on Twitter.

    Really?

    I'd be pretty pissed if I was a SpaceX shareholder.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Some names are obvious, though, no need to look them up. Eg you are a biscuit. Although why you chose it is quite interesting. Not that you have to share if it's too personal.
    Predictably, just a derivative of my surname, which I chose without more than 30 seconds thought when I first posted back in 2005 (possibly taking issue with NPMP on a matter relating to cheese, though that would have been reaching peak pb on my first post, so maybe I have made that memory up).
    If I'd thought about it in more detail I might have come up with something more interesting.
    Ah, I see. Biscuits not relevant then. Bit disappointing. Still, hats off for sticking with one handle for 17 years. Some people feel the need to chop and change which is great but can also be discombobulating.
    What about you then? What's the relevance of kinabalu? A particularly memorable holiday? A childhood nickname? Your actual name (unlikely, but not impossible)?
    My childhood nickname was Chimp - due to prowess at climbing trees. Liked it at the time but glad it didn't stick into adolescence.

    Kinabalu is after the birthplace of my wife - Kota Kinabalu. I've got to know and like it over the years.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited November 2022
    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm hoping Hunt extends the VAT break currently on new solar to retrofitting batteries, updated inverters and new panels in the budget.
    I mean he should - not just because it'd benefit me (With my new shiny battery), but it'd also provide an incentive for people to improve their systems. I've concluded I'll be better off long run by just swallowing it but it would help the country in the round too.

    One thing I note on this is that I'd have been able to get the money interest free (Instead of at 4.7%) if I lived in Scotland with their home-renewables scheme.
    Out of interest, do you have a rough set of figures to hand for it - spec, cost, savings per year. payback etc? Have thought about adding a battery a few times, but not been convinced the money makes sense.

    Also still in FiT agreement, so need to pop it in after the solar meter (i.e. on the AC supply) to avoid messing with that, I guess? Seems more obvious to put the battery before the inverter, but again I haven't looked at this in detail.

    Agree with the point. Would be very sensible to do everything possible to encourage battery adoption, residential and commercial.
    Our existing system is 4 KW, produces 4.1 - 4.3kwh per year. My other half works overnight (Legal work) and so our night time usage is higher than average. We have a few fish tanks which obviously have a draw that we can't coincide with cloud, night etc and with a new person in the house this year our general usage won't go down.
    The cost is 5 + 1 VATk and the battery is 6 kw.
    I don't know what our usage would be without solar since the house came with the panels but post solar it's about 2.8-4 kwh/year. Given we use loads at night we should get plenty of battery charge and discharge in spring/autumn - perhaps less direct gain in the peak of summer due to being more on solar and less on battery and obviously less gain at this time of year due to the battery not charging up daily.
    I think it makes sense (For me) if the cost of leccy is > 30p/kwh and assuming it won't really drop in the future below that (As we'll need as a country to invest in redundancy, nuclear needs to make a profit above the inevitable long term costs and gas will still be volatile) it should pay back in perhaps 6-7 years and gives a huge chunk of leccy basically free in the future. Also it's a selling point for the house if we need to move before then - hey you get a battery, solar AND FIT payments if we need to move before then.

    If it doesn't make sense it'll essentially be because the price of electricity has dropped which wouldn't be terrible anyway & if we're not using the battery fully I can add electric heaters for blocked winter weather (Clear & cold) to replace gas wrt heating the house.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    He invented the Johnson variant

    That was pure genius
    That was a misstep but there hasn't been that many. I think the lead Labour have now is only a third froth. I see it staying in double digits all the way to the election.
    Pretending to shop for wallpaper in John Lewis was just the kind of serious action we needed to see from a potential leader
    You're nitpicking in deeply partisan fashion from ancient history. Johnson, sadly, forced a dumbing down of our politics. No-one was immune. Not even a sobersides ex DPP turned leader of the Opposition.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Some names are obvious, though, no need to look them up. Eg you are a biscuit. Although why you chose it is quite interesting. Not that you have to share if it's too personal.
    Predictably, just a derivative of my surname, which I chose without more than 30 seconds thought when I first posted back in 2005 (possibly taking issue with NPMP on a matter relating to cheese, though that would have been reaching peak pb on my first post, so maybe I have made that memory up).
    If I'd thought about it in more detail I might have come up with something more interesting.
    Ah, I see. Biscuits not relevant then. Bit disappointing. Still, hats off for sticking with one handle for 17 years. Some people feel the need to chop and change which is great but can also be discombobulating.
    What about you then? What's the relevance of kinabalu? A particularly memorable holiday? A childhood nickname? Your actual name (unlikely, but not impossible)?
    My childhood nickname was Chimp - due to prowess at climbing trees. Liked it at the time but glad it didn't stick into adolescence.

    Kinabalu is after the birthplace of my wife - Kota Kinabalu. I've got to know and like it over the years.
    I did not know there was a city attached to the mountain. I've just looked it up. Fascinating. Also, apparently, known as Jesselton or Api-Api - literally, 'fire-fire'. Which doesn't sound an ideal name for a city.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kota_Kinabalu
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Pulpstar said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm hoping Hunt extends the VAT break currently on new solar to retrofitting batteries, updated inverters and new panels in the budget.
    I mean he should - not just because it'd benefit me (With my new shiny battery), but it'd also provide an incentive for people to improve their systems. I've concluded I'll be better off long run by just swallowing it but it would help the country in the round too.

    One thing I note on this is that I'd have been able to get the money interest free (Instead of at 4.7%) if I lived in Scotland with their home-renewables scheme.
    Out of interest, do you have a rough set of figures to hand for it - spec, cost, savings per year. payback etc? Have thought about adding a battery a few times, but not been convinced the money makes sense.

    Also still in FiT agreement, so need to pop it in after the solar meter (i.e. on the AC supply) to avoid messing with that, I guess? Seems more obvious to put the battery before the inverter, but again I haven't looked at this in detail.

    Agree with the point. Would be very sensible to do everything possible to encourage battery adoption, residential and commercial.
    Our existing system is 4 KW, produces 4.1 - 4.3kwh per year. My other half works overnight (Legal work) and so our night time usage is higher than average. We have a few fish tanks which obviously have a draw that we can't coincide with cloud, night etc and with a new person in the house this year our general usage won't go down.
    The cost is 5 + 1 VATk and the battery is 6 kw.
    I don't know what our usage would be without solar since the house came with the panels but post solar it's about 2.8-4 kwh/year. Given we use loads at night we should get plenty of battery charge and discharge in spring/autumn - perhaps less direct gain in the peak of summer due to being more on solar and less on battery and obviously less gain at this time of year due to the battery not charging up daily.
    I think it makes sense (For me) if the cost of leccy is > 30p/kwh and assuming it won't really drop in the future below that (As we'll need as a country to invest in redundancy, nuclear needs to make a profit above the inevitable long term costs and gas will still be volatile) it should pay back in perhaps 6-7 years and gives a huge chunk of leccy basically free in the future. Also it's a selling point for the house if we need to move before then - hey you get a battery, solar AND FIT payments if we need to move before then.

    If it doesn't make sense it'll essentially be because the price of electricity has dropped which wouldn't be terrible anyway.
    Thanks. Very helpful. We don't have the same night time use, I expect, but the figures look better than last time I semi-seriously looked.

    (some of those kWh should be MWh, presumably?)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    'Selebian' had not occurred to me either. It and 'Kinabalu' are both fine names.

    What really gets my goat are the people who choose to go by the name of historical figures, as if they gain some reflected glory in doing so. Such posters should be immediately banned, especially if the name comes from particularly obscure figures ...

    Ahem.
    Heh, I'd always assumed you were one of our 'genuine name' people. Possibly with slightly old-fashioned parents with a penchant for alliteration.
    When I first came on PB I was reading a biography of William Jessop, who was a rather important civil engineer at the end of the canal and start of the railway era, who is little-known nowadays. I needed to choose a name, but William seemed a little ordinary. But his son and father shared the name 'Josias', which I loved. Hence I became Josias Jessop.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Jessop
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    He invented the Johnson variant

    That was pure genius
    That was a misstep but there hasn't been that many. I think the lead Labour have now is only a third froth. I see it staying in double digits all the way to the election.
    Pretending to shop for wallpaper in John Lewis was just the kind of serious action we needed to see from a potential leader
    You're nitpicking in deeply partisan fashion from ancient history. Johnson, sadly, forced a dumbing down of our politics. No-one was immune. Not even a sobersides ex DPP turned leader of the Opposition.
    Ancient history isn’t what it used to be..

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm hoping Hunt extends the VAT break currently on new solar to retrofitting batteries, updated inverters and new panels in the budget.
    I mean he should - not just because it'd benefit me (With my new shiny battery), but it'd also provide an incentive for people to improve their systems. I've concluded I'll be better off long run by just swallowing it but it would help the country in the round too.

    One thing I note on this is that I'd have been able to get the money interest free (Instead of at 4.7%) if I lived in Scotland with their home-renewables scheme.
    Out of interest, do you have a rough set of figures to hand for it - spec, cost, savings per year. payback etc? Have thought about adding a battery a few times, but not been convinced the money makes sense.

    Also still in FiT agreement, so need to pop it in after the solar meter (i.e. on the AC supply) to avoid messing with that, I guess? Seems more obvious to put the battery before the inverter, but again I haven't looked at this in detail.

    Agree with the point. Would be very sensible to do everything possible to encourage battery adoption, residential and commercial.
    Our existing system is 4 KW, produces 4.1 - 4.3kwh per year. My other half works overnight (Legal work) and so our night time usage is higher than average. We have a few fish tanks which obviously have a draw that we can't coincide with cloud, night etc and with a new person in the house this year our general usage won't go down.
    The cost is 5 + 1 VATk and the battery is 6 kw.
    I don't know what our usage would be without solar since the house came with the panels but post solar it's about 2.8-4 kwh/year. Given we use loads at night we should get plenty of battery charge and discharge in spring/autumn - perhaps less direct gain in the peak of summer due to being more on solar and less on battery and obviously less gain at this time of year due to the battery not charging up daily.
    I think it makes sense (For me) if the cost of leccy is > 30p/kwh and assuming it won't really drop in the future below that (As we'll need as a country to invest in redundancy, nuclear needs to make a profit above the inevitable long term costs and gas will still be volatile) it should pay back in perhaps 6-7 years and gives a huge chunk of leccy basically free in the future. Also it's a selling point for the house if we need to move before then - hey you get a battery, solar AND FIT payments if we need to move before then.

    If it doesn't make sense it'll essentially be because the price of electricity has dropped which wouldn't be terrible anyway.
    Thanks. Very helpful. We don't have the same night time use, I expect, but the figures look better than last time I semi-seriously looked.

    (some of those kWh should be MWh, presumably?)
    I've sent you a PM with my broad calcs.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    The Hill believes Biden should make Newsom VP.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3728474-heres-a-game-plan-biden-replaces-harris-with-newsom-and-then-resigns/amp/

    Oh yes, and after appointing Newsom (a man who would struggle to win the Democratic Presidential in his home state), Biden should resign, making Newsom President.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    rcs1000 said:

    The Hill believes Biden should make Newsom VP.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3728474-heres-a-game-plan-biden-replaces-harris-with-newsom-and-then-resigns/amp/

    Oh yes, and after appointing Newsom (a man who would struggle to win the Democratic Presidential in his home state), Biden should resign, making Newsom President.

    That seems like a terrible idea.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    edited November 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    The Hill believes Biden should make Newsom VP.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3728474-heres-a-game-plan-biden-replaces-harris-with-newsom-and-then-resigns/amp/

    Oh yes, and after appointing Newsom (a man who would struggle to win the Democratic Presidential in his home state), Biden should resign, making Newsom President.

    The Hill is not necessarily a publication with the Democrats best interests at heart.

    A similarly damaging and muddled set of ideas in this Politico opinion piece (by a Republican, I think).

    Democrats Escaped a Midterm Thrashing. Here’s How to Primary Biden Anyway.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/11/14/so-you-want-to-unseat-joe-biden-a-guide-for-impatient-democrats-00065642
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    FWIW, "Cookie" is the name of two rather different characters in well-known American comic strips, "Blondie" and "Beetle Bailey".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blondie_(comic_strip)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beetle_Bailey

    Neither seems much like the valued commenter here.

    (I'm quite fond of some of our comic strips, thinking they often tell truths that don't fit in most American newspapers, otherwise. If, for instance, you were to read "Calvin and Hobbes" regularly, you would probably be struck by Calvin's resemblance to the Donald.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_and_Hobbes

    And some strips, for instance "Wizard of Id", almost always make me smile.)
  • Scott_xP said:

    Brexit was a shit idea. No 24058362437 in an ongoing series...

    Shapps says post-Brexit replacement of EU's product safety marking being delayed for two years to cut costs for business - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/14/james-cleverly-uk-france-channel-asylum-seekers-rishi-sunak-g20-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b#block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b

    Whats the sodding point? Our standards are their standards are our standards. And with the EU market so much larger its a pointless faff making up our own special marking. Hence so many things now wearing both UK and CE markings.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073

    FWIW, "Cookie" is the name of two rather different characters in well-known American comic strips, "Blondie" and "Beetle Bailey".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blondie_(comic_strip)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beetle_Bailey

    Neither seems much like the valued commenter here.

    (I'm quite fond of some of our comic strips, thinking they often tell truths that don't fit in most American newspapers, otherwise. If, for instance, you were to read "Calvin and Hobbes" regularly, you would probably be struck by Calvin's resemblance to the Donald.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_and_Hobbes

    And some strips, for instance "Wizard of Id", almost always make me smile.)

    There's certainly a touch of Calvin-ball about Trump, though not in a very charming manner.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited November 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    The Hill believes Biden should make Newsom VP.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3728474-heres-a-game-plan-biden-replaces-harris-with-newsom-and-then-resigns/amp/

    Oh yes, and after appointing Newsom (a man who would struggle to win the Democratic Presidential in his home state), Biden should resign, making Newsom President.

    The author is a former Reagan and Bush speechwriter, as a Republican I am sure he would love the Democratic candidate in 2024 to be an elitist liberal governor of California who would go down like a lead balloon in the rustbelt swing states
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    His political antennae are not good - as revealed by calling the Hartlepool by election in Spring last year with disastrous consequences electorally. That was followed by the near loss of Batley & Spen a couple of months later. Labour's much stronger position today owes 90% to the Tories having imploded - rather than to Starmer himself.
    The Tories certainly have imploded since their Hartlepool peak and B&S was indeed hairy. If that had been lost Starmer might have been in trouble. It was pivotal. However look at the big picture. He took over shortly after a landslide defeat and pretty much straightaway came Covid which meant that for the best part of 2 years the public had little interest in the Opposition opposing.

    "Here's our great alternative ideas for xyz!"

    "Oh do shut up, ffs, there's a pandemic on."

    So, he played that as best he could - stayed calm, didn't irritate - whilst slowly but surely doing the groundwork to get a hearing when times normalized. Then, lucky for him, VERY lucky I agree, times didn't normalize, rather the Tories poured petrol on themselves and immolated. After which you can only eat what's on the plate in front of you - and he is.
    He invented the Johnson variant

    That was pure genius
    That was a misstep but there hasn't been that many. I think the lead Labour have now is only a third froth. I see it staying in double digits all the way to the election.
    Much as I think a some of @Heathener's posts are just partisan hope casting, I do think something has snapped with the electorate and there is no hope for a Tory government after the next election. The only thing for them is scale of defeat. And that is crucial for the election after next.
    Labour don't have the answers - no-one does really. I think as a nation we need to pay more tax to get the public services we say we want. We need desperately to fix social care - I'd be shipping in overseas care staff to live in with those who need 24 hour care - au pairs for the aged. Then the person needing care stays in their own home, the carer gets free accommodation and we can start freeing up hospital beds.

    But really, its hard to see a labour government becoming hugely popular in time for say 2028.
    The harsh reality is that this country is very expensive for increasingly poor services. Too much £ just gets syphoned off by the ultra-rich but there is not a huge amount we can do about that now. What we can do is demolish the bullshit they spin to protect their positions.

    You mention staff - a key battleground. We rather desperately need a shit-ton of workers in a whole load of sectors, yet we not only allow very few in, we treat them like shit to ensure nobody comes back.

    Time for politicians / the media to stand up to this. Do you want a job cleaning floors or wiping your dad's arse? No? So STFU moaning about migration.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Brexit was a shit idea. No 24058362437 in an ongoing series...

    Shapps says post-Brexit replacement of EU's product safety marking being delayed for two years to cut costs for business - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/14/james-cleverly-uk-france-channel-asylum-seekers-rishi-sunak-g20-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b#block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b

    Whats the sodding point? Our standards are their standards are our standards. And with the EU market so much larger its a pointless faff making up our own special marking. Hence so many things now wearing both UK and CE markings.
    If its the same standards then you put both UKCA and CE markings down. Its done by a printer normally, it can handle both in a template. No harm, no foul, no loss.

    If the standards differ, then its because we've chosen to differ them, or they've chosen to and we've chosen not to copy, which makes having our own standard valuable to cope with that.

    Seems like rather a no win, no fee kind of situation. If there's no reason not to have our own standards, just print UK next to theirs at no extra cost, but if there is, then its better to have them and not need them, than need them but not have them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Some names are obvious, though, no need to look them up. Eg you are a biscuit. Although why you chose it is quite interesting. Not that you have to share if it's too personal.
    Predictably, just a derivative of my surname, which I chose without more than 30 seconds thought when I first posted back in 2005 (possibly taking issue with NPMP on a matter relating to cheese, though that would have been reaching peak pb on my first post, so maybe I have made that memory up).
    If I'd thought about it in more detail I might have come up with something more interesting.
    Ah, I see. Biscuits not relevant then. Bit disappointing. Still, hats off for sticking with one handle for 17 years. Some people feel the need to chop and change which is great but can also be discombobulating.
    What about you then? What's the relevance of kinabalu? A particularly memorable holiday? A childhood nickname? Your actual name (unlikely, but not impossible)?
    My childhood nickname was Chimp - due to prowess at climbing trees. Liked it at the time but glad it didn't stick into adolescence.

    Kinabalu is after the birthplace of my wife - Kota Kinabalu. I've got to know and like it over the years.
    I would need to change my name to Giddarbaha
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Paris overtakes London as Europe's top stock market, a bit concerning

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63623502
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    Executions were public in the UK until the abolition of capital punishment.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    edited November 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit was a shit idea. No 24058362437 in an ongoing series...

    Shapps says post-Brexit replacement of EU's product safety marking being delayed for two years to cut costs for business - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/14/james-cleverly-uk-france-channel-asylum-seekers-rishi-sunak-g20-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b#block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b

    Whats the sodding point? Our standards are their standards are our standards. And with the EU market so much larger its a pointless faff making up our own special marking. Hence so many things now wearing both UK and CE markings.
    It's a massive extra cost for business with no gain.

    Which is why they have "delayed" it again, until after the next election when Starmer can quietly ditch it
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    Paris overtakes London as Europe's top stock market, a bit concerning

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63623502

    And India overtakes China in population

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/why-india-overtaking-china-as-most-populous-country-is-more-than-symbolic
  • Scott_xP said:

    Brexit was a shit idea. No 24058362437 in an ongoing series...

    Shapps says post-Brexit replacement of EU's product safety marking being delayed for two years to cut costs for business - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/14/james-cleverly-uk-france-channel-asylum-seekers-rishi-sunak-g20-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b#block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b

    Whats the sodding point? Our standards are their standards are our standards. And with the EU market so much larger its a pointless faff making up our own special marking. Hence so many things now wearing both UK and CE markings.
    If its the same standards then you put both UKCA and CE markings down. Its done by a printer normally, it can handle both in a template. No harm, no foul, no loss.

    If the standards differ, then its because we've chosen to differ them, or they've chosen to and we've chosen not to copy, which makes having our own standard valuable to cope with that.

    Seems like rather a no win, no fee kind of situation. If there's no reason not to have our own standards, just print UK next to theirs at no extra cost, but if there is, then its better to have them and not need them, than need them but not have them.
    Meanwhile in the real world our government has kicked this into the long grass. Because we can't afford to do it. Same as inbound customs checks. So if we have chosen to differ them or they've chosen to and we've chosen not to copy it doesn't matter. Because we can't afford to implement it. Again.

    Too poor to implement our own stupid Brexit. Global Britain at its finest.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    HYUFD said:

    Paris overtakes London as Europe's top stock market, a bit concerning

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63623502

    Another Brexit dividend.

    And if we took back control of our borders, why are we now paying the French to control our borders?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead is twenty-three points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 27% (-2)
    Lab 50% (+3)
    Lib Dem 6% (-3)
    Other 17% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 10th - 14th November 2022
    Sample: 1,060 GB adults
    (Changes from 4th - 7th November 2022) https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1592175611375763457/photo/1
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    HD and Q was a speciality of the Christian west, and I don't believe Islam ever really got in to burnings for heresy. Not much to crow about here.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    ohnotnow said:

    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"

    I must admit to being slightly surprised by this.

    Euronext is bigger than the LSE, sure, but that's because the LSE is (basically) just London. While Euronext is Paris + Amsterdam + Milan + Oslo + Lisbon + Dublin.

    France has one massive company by market cap (LVMH), but the UK has AstraZeneca, Shell, BP, Unlever, GlaxoSmithKline, and HSBC - all of which are going to be $100bn+ companies.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    The only country not prepared for #Brexit is the one that asked for it. https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1592174168224792579
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead is twenty-three points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 27% (-2)
    Lab 50% (+3)
    Lib Dem 6% (-3)
    Other 17% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 10th - 14th November 2022
    Sample: 1,060 GB adults
    (Changes from 4th - 7th November 2022) https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1592175611375763457/photo/1

    SBCOTS. Greater than moe move to Labour, after RS inception.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Hill believes Biden should make Newsom VP.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3728474-heres-a-game-plan-biden-replaces-harris-with-newsom-and-then-resigns/amp/

    Oh yes, and after appointing Newsom (a man who would struggle to win the Democratic Presidential in his home state), Biden should resign, making Newsom President.

    The author is a former Reagan and Bush speechwriter, as a Republican I am sure he would love the Democratic candidate in 2024 to be an elitist liberal governor of California who would go down like a lead balloon in the rustbelt swing states
    I struggle to think of a stupider pick than Newsom for the Democrats.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Some names are obvious, though, no need to look them up. Eg you are a biscuit. Although why you chose it is quite interesting. Not that you have to share if it's too personal.
    Predictably, just a derivative of my surname, which I chose without more than 30 seconds thought when I first posted back in 2005 (possibly taking issue with NPMP on a matter relating to cheese, though that would have been reaching peak pb on my first post, so maybe I have made that memory up).
    If I'd thought about it in more detail I might have come up with something more interesting.
    Ah, I see. Biscuits not relevant then. Bit disappointing. Still, hats off for sticking with one handle for 17 years. Some people feel the need to chop and change which is great but can also be discombobulating.
    What about you then? What's the relevance of kinabalu? A particularly memorable holiday? A childhood nickname? Your actual name (unlikely, but not impossible)?
    My childhood nickname was Chimp - due to prowess at climbing trees. Liked it at the time but glad it didn't stick into adolescence.

    Kinabalu is after the birthplace of my wife - Kota Kinabalu. I've got to know and like it over the years.
    I did not know there was a city attached to the mountain. I've just looked it up. Fascinating. Also, apparently, known as Jesselton or Api-Api - literally, 'fire-fire'. Which doesn't sound an ideal name for a city.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kota_Kinabalu
    Yep, Jesselton was the old colonial name. That Empire again. Going over there, making up names for places.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Hill believes Biden should make Newsom VP.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3728474-heres-a-game-plan-biden-replaces-harris-with-newsom-and-then-resigns/amp/

    Oh yes, and after appointing Newsom (a man who would struggle to win the Democratic Presidential in his home state), Biden should resign, making Newsom President.

    The author is a former Reagan and Bush speechwriter, as a Republican I am sure he would love the Democratic candidate in 2024 to be an elitist liberal governor of California who would go down like a lead balloon in the rustbelt swing states
    I struggle to think of a stupider pick than Newsom for the Democrats.
    How about a Bernie AOC ticket ?

  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    edited November 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    The Hill believes Biden should make Newsom VP.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3728474-heres-a-game-plan-biden-replaces-harris-with-newsom-and-then-resigns/amp/

    Oh yes, and after appointing Newsom (a man who would struggle to win the Democratic Presidential in his home state), Biden should resign, making Newsom President.

    If Biden runs he runs with Kamala. He has too much to lose from the optics of ditching her than simply keeping her on the ticket.

    I’m not actually that convinced that she’s been as terrible a VP as everyone says she has. She was dealt a pretty rough hand with the areas she was expected to prioritise, and is a little gaffe prone (like her boss in that respect). I don’t think she’s been used as effectively as she could have been. There’s talent there - anyone could see that from her time as a Senator.

    She will however, absent a succession, never be POTUS, in my opinion.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Some names are obvious, though, no need to look them up. Eg you are a biscuit. Although why you chose it is quite interesting. Not that you have to share if it's too personal.
    Predictably, just a derivative of my surname, which I chose without more than 30 seconds thought when I first posted back in 2005 (possibly taking issue with NPMP on a matter relating to cheese, though that would have been reaching peak pb on my first post, so maybe I have made that memory up).
    If I'd thought about it in more detail I might have come up with something more interesting.
    Ah, I see. Biscuits not relevant then. Bit disappointing. Still, hats off for sticking with one handle for 17 years. Some people feel the need to chop and change which is great but can also be discombobulating.
    What about you then? What's the relevance of kinabalu? A particularly memorable holiday? A childhood nickname? Your actual name (unlikely, but not impossible)?
    My childhood nickname was Chimp - due to prowess at climbing trees. Liked it at the time but glad it didn't stick into adolescence.

    Kinabalu is after the birthplace of my wife - Kota Kinabalu. I've got to know and like it over the years.
    I would need to change my name to Giddarbaha
    You are forever Yanis Varoufakis to me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    HD and Q was a speciality of the Christian west, and I don't believe Islam ever really got in to burnings for heresy. Not much to crow about here.
    Though for treason against the Crown mainly rather than religious reasons, we were not really a theocracy even then. Apart from maybe under Mary Tudor, even Elizabeth was just stopping a potential Spanish backed internal revolt.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    rcs1000 said:

    The Hill believes Biden should make Newsom VP.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3728474-heres-a-game-plan-biden-replaces-harris-with-newsom-and-then-resigns/amp/

    Oh yes, and after appointing Newsom (a man who would struggle to win the Democratic Presidential in his home state), Biden should resign, making Newsom President.

    If Biden runs he runs with Kamala. He has too much to lose from the optics of ditching her than simply keeping her on the ticket.

    I’m not actually that convinced that she’s been as terrible a VP as everyone says she has. She was dealt a pretty rough hand with the areas she was expected to prioritise, and is a little gaffe prone (like her boss in that respect). I don’t think she’s been used as effectively as she could have been. There’s talent there - anyone could see that from her time as a Senator.
    My theory is that the next Democrat ticket will be XXX-Harris. She will keep the VP slot, but under a new President.

    (This theory only holds in the event that XXX is a man. If it is - for example - Governor Whitmer, then I don't think she keeps the VP slot.)
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"

    I must admit to being slightly surprised by this.

    Euronext is bigger than the LSE, sure, but that's because the LSE is (basically) just London. While Euronext is Paris + Amsterdam + Milan + Oslo + Lisbon + Dublin.

    France has one massive company by market cap (LVMH), but the UK has AstraZeneca, Shell, BP, Unlever, GlaxoSmithKline, and HSBC - all of which are going to be $100bn+ companies.
    So are L'Oréal, hermes, dior, sanofi and total energie it says here

    https://companiesmarketcap.com/france/largest-companies-in-france-by-market-cap/

    Bit worrying so much money tied up in silk ties and shampoo
  • kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    @Selebian

    Your avatar is terribly familiar but I can't place it. Put me out my misery. What is it?

    Selby town seal. Adoptive town (nearest town to where I live).

    ETA: This example lifted from Wikipedia (public domain by the creator)
    Hence also, I suppose 'Selebian'.
    Oddly, never crossed my mind to wonder what a Selebian was. Just as it never crossed my mind to wonder what a kinabalu was until I was looking at a wikipedia list of the world's highest islands. I bet there's loads of interesting names out there I never wondered about. How disappointingly incurious of me.
    Some names are obvious, though, no need to look them up. Eg you are a biscuit. Although why you chose it is quite interesting. Not that you have to share if it's too personal.
    Predictably, just a derivative of my surname, which I chose without more than 30 seconds thought when I first posted back in 2005 (possibly taking issue with NPMP on a matter relating to cheese, though that would have been reaching peak pb on my first post, so maybe I have made that memory up).
    If I'd thought about it in more detail I might have come up with something more interesting.
    Ah, I see. Biscuits not relevant then. Bit disappointing. Still, hats off for sticking with one handle for 17 years. Some people feel the need to chop and change which is great but can also be discombobulating.
    What about you then? What's the relevance of kinabalu? A particularly memorable holiday? A childhood nickname? Your actual name (unlikely, but not impossible)?
    My childhood nickname was Chimp - due to prowess at climbing trees. Liked it at the time but glad it didn't stick into adolescence.

    Kinabalu is after the birthplace of my wife - Kota Kinabalu. I've got to know and like it over the years.
    How romantic! If I'd followed your example my name would be Margate.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    Executions were public in the UK until the abolition of capital punishment.
    The last public hanging in the UK was in 1867 but capital punishment was not abolished here until 1969
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨🚨New Voting Intention🚨🚨
    Labour lead is twenty-three points in latest results from Deltapoll.
    Con 27% (-2)
    Lab 50% (+3)
    Lib Dem 6% (-3)
    Other 17% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 10th - 14th November 2022
    Sample: 1,060 GB adults
    (Changes from 4th - 7th November 2022) https://twitter.com/DeltapollUK/status/1592175611375763457/photo/1

    SBCOTS. Greater than moe move to Labour, after RS inception.
    Lib Dems on 6

    I think these polls are silly
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    Executions were public in the UK until the abolition of capital punishment.
    The last public hanging in the UK was in 1867 but capital punishment was not abolished here until 1969
    I stand corrected. I thought people could apply and get tickets to hangings in the UK right up until the end.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    "Maximising the GE24 result" is what bothers me about Sir Keir, I think - that's supposed to be a means to an end not an end in itself. I'd rather he had a 40 majority and a decent plan of what to do with it than a 100 majority and no such plan.
    A "plan" is a bit much to expect - but hopefully there'll be the impression of integrity and competence plus some workable proposals in the manifesto to improve the lives of ordinary people.
    Wow. If that's the case, no wonder I'm bothered by him!
    But you weren't bothered by Johnson who had no post Brexit plan.

    When Labour propose an economic recovery plan, let's face it, you won't like it anyway.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"

    I must admit to being slightly surprised by this.

    Euronext is bigger than the LSE, sure, but that's because the LSE is (basically) just London. While Euronext is Paris + Amsterdam + Milan + Oslo + Lisbon + Dublin.

    France has one massive company by market cap (LVMH), but the UK has AstraZeneca, Shell, BP, Unlever, GlaxoSmithKline, and HSBC - all of which are going to be $100bn+ companies.
    So are L'Oréal, hermes, dior, sanofi and total energie it says here

    https://companiesmarketcap.com/france/largest-companies-in-france-by-market-cap/

    Bit worrying so much money tied up in silk ties and shampoo
    Four of the top five French companies - by market cap - are luxury goods. There you go.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"

    I must admit to being slightly surprised by this.

    Euronext is bigger than the LSE, sure, but that's because the LSE is (basically) just London. While Euronext is Paris + Amsterdam + Milan + Oslo + Lisbon + Dublin.

    France has one massive company by market cap (LVMH), but the UK has AstraZeneca, Shell, BP, Unlever, GlaxoSmithKline, and HSBC - all of which are going to be $100bn+ companies.
    So are L'Oréal, hermes, dior, sanofi and total energie it says here

    https://companiesmarketcap.com/france/largest-companies-in-france-by-market-cap/

    Bit worrying so much money tied up in silk ties and shampoo
    It's slim pickings on both counts really isn't it? Hardly the halcyon days of ICI.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,779
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"

    I must admit to being slightly surprised by this.

    Euronext is bigger than the LSE, sure, but that's because the LSE is (basically) just London. While Euronext is Paris + Amsterdam + Milan + Oslo + Lisbon + Dublin.

    France has one massive company by market cap (LVMH), but the UK has AstraZeneca, Shell, BP, Unlever, GlaxoSmithKline, and HSBC - all of which are going to be $100bn+ companies.
    Yeah - I'm not sure where they get the numbers from to make that work. Looking at the MSCI Country Weights for the MSCI World IMI (so including MSCI Small Cap) at the end of October they were France 2.87% v UK 4.23%. Appreciate that we've had 2 weeks of moves since then but things haven't moved *that* much in 2 weeks. Equally that won't include everything / will have an MSCI exclusion filter on some things etc - but I would be surprised if it was enough to overturn a 40% starting difference.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    NEW from @IpsosUK Are there signs of a Sunak recovery for the Conservatives? It's a mixed bag. THREAD/

    1. Some sense Sunak viewed more positively than Truss / Johnson. Public much more likely to think he can unite Cons than either - but majority still think he loses GE.

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1592170519629012995/photo/1
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    rcs1000 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"

    I must admit to being slightly surprised by this.

    Euronext is bigger than the LSE, sure, but that's because the LSE is (basically) just London. While Euronext is Paris + Amsterdam + Milan + Oslo + Lisbon + Dublin.

    France has one massive company by market cap (LVMH), but the UK has AstraZeneca, Shell, BP, Unlever, GlaxoSmithKline, and HSBC - all of which are going to be $100bn+ companies.
    So are L'Oréal, hermes, dior, sanofi and total energie it says here

    https://companiesmarketcap.com/france/largest-companies-in-france-by-market-cap/

    Bit worrying so much money tied up in silk ties and shampoo
    Four of the top five French companies - by market cap - are luxury goods. There you go.
    Interestingly, that link (for the UK) is here https://companiesmarketcap.com/united-kingdom/largest-companies-in-the-uk-by-market-cap/

    And that suggests that the UK has a narrow lead in market cap - 2.8trn vs 2.5trn.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    Lennon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Apologies if this has been covered already https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/london-loses-its-crown-of-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris

    "London Loses Crown of Biggest European Stock Market to Paris

    * France’s stock market narrowly edges out the UK in size"

    I must admit to being slightly surprised by this.

    Euronext is bigger than the LSE, sure, but that's because the LSE is (basically) just London. While Euronext is Paris + Amsterdam + Milan + Oslo + Lisbon + Dublin.

    France has one massive company by market cap (LVMH), but the UK has AstraZeneca, Shell, BP, Unlever, GlaxoSmithKline, and HSBC - all of which are going to be $100bn+ companies.
    Yeah - I'm not sure where they get the numbers from to make that work. Looking at the MSCI Country Weights for the MSCI World IMI (so including MSCI Small Cap) at the end of October they were France 2.87% v UK 4.23%. Appreciate that we've had 2 weeks of moves since then but things haven't moved *that* much in 2 weeks. Equally that won't include everything / will have an MSCI exclusion filter on some things etc - but I would be surprised if it was enough to overturn a 40% starting difference.
    It's possible the difference is how they count dual listed/Headquarterd companies:

    The top six companies in the UK are AstraZeneca (which is half Swedish), Shell (half Dutch), Linde (three quarters German), Unilever (half Dutch), HSBC (a fair amount HK), and Rio Tinto (half Australian).
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    If Corbyn stands as an Independent , he is very likely to win with the active support of most of the Islington North CLP. After close of nominations he might well receive endorsement from John Mcdonell, Diane Abbot and most of the Campaign group of Labour MPs. Starmer would be unwise to reopen this wound , and by doing so he risks lending credibility to Tory attacks which they no longer have with the wider electorate.For the vast majority of voters this is very much 'water under the bridge.'

    I can't really even believe he's considering all this. It draws all the attention back to Corbyn and his wing of the party. It seems like a big own goal.
    It enables Labour to bat back Tory attack lines on Corbyn: “we removed our batshit crazy wing nut, you put yours in the home office”.
    It risks a serious Labour split in the middle of the GE campaign if a significant number of Labour MPs openly declare support for him and proceed to campaign on his behalf.
    I personally don't want Corbyn expelled but I'm starting to really trust Starmer on what's best for maximizing the GE24 result. I think he'll do that calculation here and get it right.
    "Maximising the GE24 result" is what bothers me about Sir Keir, I think - that's supposed to be a means to an end not an end in itself. I'd rather he had a 40 majority and a decent plan of what to do with it than a 100 majority and no such plan.
    A "plan" is a bit much to expect - but hopefully there'll be the impression of integrity and competence plus some workable proposals in the manifesto to improve the lives of ordinary people.
    Wow. If that's the case, no wonder I'm bothered by him!
    But you weren't bothered by Johnson who had no post Brexit plan.

    When Labour propose an economic recovery plan, let's face it, you won't like it anyway.
    Boris at least had a plan to end the antidemocratic nonsense of the 2017 parliament.

    As for the latter point - we'll have to see it to judge on that!
  • rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160
    edited November 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit was a shit idea. No 24058362437 in an ongoing series...

    Shapps says post-Brexit replacement of EU's product safety marking being delayed for two years to cut costs for business - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/nov/14/james-cleverly-uk-france-channel-asylum-seekers-rishi-sunak-g20-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b#block-63724bf38f089dfd847c061b

    Whats the sodding point? Our standards are their standards are our standards. And with the EU market so much larger its a pointless faff making up our own special marking. Hence so many things now wearing both UK and CE markings.
    If its the same standards then you put both UKCA and CE markings down. Its done by a printer normally, it can handle both in a template. No harm, no foul, no loss.

    If the standards differ, then its because we've chosen to differ them, or they've chosen to and we've chosen not to copy, which makes having our own standard valuable to cope with that.

    Seems like rather a no win, no fee kind of situation. If there's no reason not to have our own standards, just print UK next to theirs at no extra cost, but if there is, then its better to have them and not need them, than need them but not have them.
    A lot of CE is ISO derived.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Well Charles has a less prolific record of adultery than virtually every French President except De Gaulle or many US Presidents, notably JFK and
    Clinton.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    All of them?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    Executions were public in the UK until the abolition of capital punishment.
    The last public hanging in the UK was in 1867 but capital punishment was not abolished here until 1969
    History has long arms. Thomas Hardy attended one at age 16, and lived to 1928, within the lifetime of people still alive..

    "I remember what a fine figure she showed against the sky as she hung in the misty rain and how the tight black silk gown set off her shape as she wheeled half round and back.’ So said Thomas Hardy when looking back to a sight that haunted him into later life: the hanging at Dorchester Prison on 9 August 1856 of Martha Brown. She was the last woman to be publicly hanged in Dorset. He was just sixteen when he witnessed the hanging and wrote seventy years later that he was ashamed to have been there."

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    News from the Neolithic


    “Afghanistan’s supreme leader has ordered judges to fully implement aspects of Islamic law that include public executions, stonings, floggings and the amputation of limbs for thieves, the Taliban’s chief spokesman said.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/14/afghanistan-supreme-leader-orders-full-implementation-of-sharia-law-taliban

    The new 'moderate' Taliban. Merely amputation of limbs for thieves rather than being hung drawn and quartered and public executions not televised, merely first come first served for best view in the crowd?
    And yet they were allowed to play in the cricket world cup a few days ago.
    Saudi Arabia has similar laws and gets to play in the Football World Cup.

    (Death by stoning is the punishment for adultery in Saudi Arabia.)
    An utter scandal that in this country we make adulterers King and Queen.
    Pretty sure the (male) Saudi Royals get to do pretty much whatever (and whoever) they please.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    edited November 2022
    Extinction Rebellion are now calling in their fiercest warriors:

    https://twitter.com/jimrosecircus1/status/1591874269482549250

    :)
  • If Sir Keir pretending to buy wallpaper is ancient history, that must make his less than three year old bid to make Jeremy Corbyn the Prime Minister prehistoric

    Was the Salisbury poisoning before or after the dinosaurs?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Lol SpaceX has just went and made a bog old advertising purchase on Twitter.

    Really?

    I'd be pretty pissed if I was a SpaceX shareholder.
    For Starlink

    https://www.reuters.com/technology/spacex-buys-ad-campaign-twitter-starlink-musk-says-2022-11-14/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Hill believes Biden should make Newsom VP.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/3728474-heres-a-game-plan-biden-replaces-harris-with-newsom-and-then-resigns/amp/

    Oh yes, and after appointing Newsom (a man who would struggle to win the Democratic Presidential in his home state), Biden should resign, making Newsom President.

    The author is a former Reagan and Bush speechwriter, as a Republican I am sure he would love the Democratic candidate in 2024 to be an elitist liberal governor of California who would go down like a lead balloon in the rustbelt swing states
    I struggle to think of a stupider pick than Newsom for the Democrats.
    He's quite short - 8.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    If Sir Keir pretending to buy wallpaper is ancient history, that must make his less than three year old bid to make Jeremy Corbyn the Prime Minister prehistoric

    Was the Salisbury poisoning before or after the dinosaurs?

    Nutsak pretended to buy petrol, so it's a no score draw on that front.
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