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The money goes on DeSantis to win WH2024 – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,635
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    I remember a long time ago reading Room at the Top (which I am dismayed to see was published in 1957) which very much identified that sort of problem. My father, who came from a very working class background in Dundee, had very similar issues when he was commissioned as an officer in the army.
    Talking about educating the working classes, this has popped up on the GRaun: and note the sting in the tail, at least of this quote - so it's not just a de facto Tech Modern default.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/12/art-drama-languages-and-geography-to-become-preserve-of-private-schools-as-state-sector-cuts-bite

    'Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “Subjects we have always seen as culturally really important will increasingly become the preserve of private schools because state schools can’t afford to teach them.”

    He told the Observer that subjects that attract fewer pupils at GCSE and A-level, including drama, art, German and French, would all be in danger of being axed, because “one teacher to 20 children won’t be viable any more”.

    Subjects like design technology, which is expensive because schools have to buy materials and classes can’t be big for safety reasons, would also be at risk, he said.'

    The modern languages in particular are another issue - for university entrance AIUI.
    The really problematic one in Scotland is economics, which is basically only taught in private schools these days. A truly dismaying state of affairs, especially when
    you look at the charts for the average earnings of different graduates. But yes, a daughter of a good friend of mine has just started at St Andrews in International relations. She got her place because her
    private school helped her become completely fluent in French, Spanish and Italian (have so say that a lot of family skiing holidays probably helped too). What chance does a state school pupil have of competing with that?
    It’s all going downhill
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    DavidL said:

    Tottenham concede first yet again.

    Will still beat Leeds though.

    LOL
    LOL
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Marcus Smith has no place in the England rugby side. All of England's best attacking play has involved Smith being no where near the ball.

    He’s kicked a bit too much, but one resulted in a try. He also scored a superb try off Joe’s off load. He is still learning.
    He's a good stand off but Jones's system is killing him and he is killing it.

    He has almost no value add and kills attacking ball dead time and time again for England.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,872

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    I remember a long time ago reading Room at the Top (which I am dismayed to see was published in 1957) which very much identified that sort of problem. My father, who came from a very working class background in Dundee, had very similar issues when he was commissioned as an officer in the army.
    Talking about educating the working classes, this has popped up on the GRaun: and note the sting in the tail, at least of this quote - so it's not just a de facto Tech Modern default.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/12/art-drama-languages-and-geography-to-become-preserve-of-private-schools-as-state-sector-cuts-bite

    'Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “Subjects we have always seen as culturally really important will increasingly become the preserve of private schools because state schools can’t afford to teach them.”

    He told the Observer that subjects that attract fewer pupils at GCSE and A-level, including drama, art, German and French, would all be in danger of being axed, because “one teacher to 20 children won’t be viable any more”.

    Subjects like design technology, which is expensive because schools have to buy materials and classes can’t be big for safety reasons, would also be at risk, he said.'

    The modern languages in particular are another issue - for university entrance AIUI.
    The really problematic one in Scotland is economics, which is basically only taught in private schools these days. A truly dismaying state of affairs, especially when
    you look at the charts for the average earnings of different graduates. But yes, a daughter of a good friend of mine has just started at St Andrews in International relations. She got her place because her
    private school helped her become completely fluent in French, Spanish and Italian (have so say that a lot of family skiing holidays probably helped too). What chance does a state school pupil have of competing with that?
    It’s all going downhill
    Well I presume the skiing did. More troubling though is that rather than create additional ladders and pathways for those with ambition and talent born into modest circumstances, we seem to be finding less and less opportunities. This is definitely not helping our economic performance nor is it helping with social cohesion.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,570
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Marcus Smith has no place in the England rugby side. All of England's best attacking play has involved Smith being no where near the ball.

    He’s kicked a bit too much, but one resulted in a try. He also scored a superb try off Joe’s off load. He is still learning.
    He's a good stand off but Jones's system is killing him and he is killing it.

    He has almost no value add and kills attacking ball dead time and time again for England.
    So really Jones is the issue. Considering what he used to say about English rugby before he got the job, he’s doing a fair job at destroying any flair and creativity in the English backline.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Tottenham concede first yet again.

    Will still beat Leeds though.

    LOL
    Football. ******* hell

    Is there a Conte problem? Might he walk blaming board for giving him a squad of much of a muchness?

    Any leading WC scorer bets on a jaded Kane?
    Back to 2-2, you may be right yet. I think that Kane gets better service for Spurs than he does for England but he is a greedy b***** as all good strikers are and he is not the worst bet for top scorer.
    Tiredness? jaded. And if the England side were a horse, the recent form would put you right off.

    Brazil the team to beat?
    They usually are, them and Germany. England just don't seem to create enough given the quality in their midfield. Not sure why that is but Southgate's teams always seem quite passive or defensive in their approach.
    McGuire Stones Dier Shaw Trippier back five, rice mount Henderson saka midfield, and Kane upfront starting the first match Would prove you sooo right.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,073
    edited November 2022

    MoonRabbit asks: "Is Nevada over?"

    In the US, traditionally contests "ain't over till the fat lady sings".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_ain't_over_till_the_fat_lady_sings

    More seriously, it will be over for most practical purposes when one or more news organizations declare a winner, over when election officials certify the election, and, possibly, over when the legal challenges are finished. (Bettors may have to wait for the second; I don't know about the rules on third.)

    Over?
    No. Don’t think will ever be over Nevada Grande. Beef pate and chilli mayo.
    It's not over till the last online loudmouth stops talking.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 49,002

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    They gave council houses the vote?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,749
    rcs1000 said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    They gave council houses the vote?
    It's less paperwork than giving it to dead people.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    edited November 2022
    Yep. See also when perfectly mainstream media claim not to be mainstream, or establishment figures claim not to be establishment.

    @baddiel
    It is a key thing now that even the most elitist of the elite is not in their own minds a member of the elite.

    @elonmusk
    As Twitter pursues the goal of elevating citizen journalism, media elite will try everything to stop that from happening

    https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1591124811027476480?cxt=HHwWgMDTqbzl55QsAAAA
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,265
    Yay - Forest didn't surrender a lead!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    In a way these figures make me wonder more about why there was comparitively slow growth from the 50s.

    There has always been immigration to Britain — that’s my heritage — but the historical trend is obviously remarkable.

    The overall foreign born population of Britain has risen from:

    • 0.6% in 1851
    • 1.5% in 1901
    • 4.2% in 1951
    • 8.3% in 2001
    • 16.8% in 2022


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1589259006232891392?cxt=HHwWgMDQqaupl44sAAAA
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650

    Yay - Forest didn't surrender a lead!!

    Like Leeds. Oh, no, the opposite of Leeds. Three times. Against one of the twat teams
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,232

    algarkirk said:

    A thought on listless political discussion.

    I reckon part of the problem is that, right now, there's only one realistic option open to the UK, and it's not an attractive one.

    The retrenchment after 2008 had choices to debate- how much tax rise, how much spending cut. This one, much less so- taxes are going to go up as much as possible, spending is going to be cut as much as possible, and everyone is hoping that will allow the fiscal trousers to button up.

    The brief firework that was the Truss premiership was a desparate attempt to escape that, but it didn't work because it was alway a thousand to one shot.

    The hangover has started, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. It doesn't really matter if its origin was 2020, 2016, 2010, 2008, the 1980s or 1945. There's a hangover to come, and the only real cure is time and pain.

    Your post is put well, but I disagree on the basics. We cannot 'save up and plug the hole' if we get recession. A contracting economy enlarges the hole because tax revenue dips, and unemployment benefit increases. It's fighting a losing battle. Growth is the only way through this, and Sunak's Government will be forced to recognise that, whether they like it or not. Truss's approach was like a bull in a china shop, and that's a shame, but fundamentally she was spot on.
    PB currently reflects the fact that the Overton window appears narrow at the moment. In the UK if you take out Brexit as such and SNP, both of which cut across traditional lines, there is almost too much agreement. This causes much agitation about small things - the narcissism of small differences, and of course focus on character.

    But in reality socialism, unbridled capitalism, small state, marxism, libertarianism, radicalism, 'Year Nought' thinking, old fashioned liberalism, religious politics etc are all in severe decay.

    Leaving only a Social Democrat debate about where exactly to pitch your stall for a combination of massive state, massive corporate enterprise, small scale enterprise and third sector.

    In truth this is amazingly dull. the other subject that is dull is competence, which is the one great issue of our day.

    That's a very Western-centric view. Not much evidence of a social democratic statist consensus in Dubai, which is why their economy is exploding and the Western economies are falling back.
    Dubai is an autocracy that is (a) buoyed up by vast oil wealth, (b) can import third world slave labour to work for almost nothing and then throw it back out again when it's all used up, and (c) needn't worry about either the voting power or the welfare of vast numbers of old people. One might as well compare economic conditions in the UK with those on the planet Neptune as with those in the UAE, for all the insight that this would provide.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,635
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    I remember a long time ago reading Room at the Top (which I am dismayed to see was published in 1957) which very much identified that sort of problem. My father, who came from a very working class background in Dundee, had very similar issues when he was commissioned as an officer in the army.
    Talking about educating the working classes, this has popped up on the GRaun: and note the sting in the tail, at least of this quote - so it's not just a de facto Tech Modern default.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/12/art-drama-languages-and-geography-to-become-preserve-of-private-schools-as-state-sector-cuts-bite

    'Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “Subjects we have always seen as culturally really important will increasingly become the preserve of private schools because state schools can’t afford to teach them.”

    He told the Observer that subjects that attract fewer pupils at GCSE and A-level, including drama, art, German and French, would all be in danger of being axed, because “one teacher to 20 children won’t be viable any more”.

    Subjects like design technology, which is expensive because schools have to buy materials and classes can’t be big for safety reasons, would also be at risk, he said.'

    The modern languages in particular are another issue - for university entrance AIUI.
    The really problematic one in Scotland is economics, which is basically only taught in private schools these days. A truly dismaying state of affairs, especially when
    you look at the charts for the average earnings of different graduates. But yes, a daughter of a good friend of mine has just started at St Andrews in International relations. She got her place because her
    private school helped her become completely fluent in French, Spanish and Italian (have so say that a lot of family skiing holidays probably helped too). What chance does a state school pupil have of competing with that?
    It’s all going downhill
    Well I presume the skiing did. More troubling though is that rather than create additional ladders and pathways for those with ambition and talent born into modest circumstances, we seem to be finding less and less opportunities. This is definitely not helping our economic performance nor is it helping with social cohesion.
    That is a theme that I spend a lot of focus on
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,142
    kle4 said:

    In a way these figures make me wonder more about why there was comparitively slow growth from the 50s.

    There has always been immigration to Britain — that’s my heritage — but the historical trend is obviously remarkable.

    The overall foreign born population of Britain has risen from:

    • 0.6% in 1851
    • 1.5% in 1901
    • 4.2% in 1951
    • 8.3% in 2001
    • 16.8% in 2022


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1589259006232891392?cxt=HHwWgMDQqaupl44sAAAA

    1) It wasn't until the 1970s we joined the EU, and until the 00s there wasn't a massive imbalance in the wealth of countries with freedom of movement.
    2) Immigration (especially from the third world) grows exponentially. Each immigrant generates more immigrants as potential immigrants have mpre contacts in the host country.
    3) Immigrants need a certain amount of resource to get started. Back in the 50s, much of the world was simply too poor to move.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,232
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    I remember a long time ago reading Room at the Top (which I am dismayed to see was published in 1957) which very much identified that sort of problem. My father, who came from a very working class background in Dundee, had very similar issues when he was commissioned as an officer in the army.
    Talking about educating the working classes, this has popped up on the GRaun: and note the sting in the tail, at least of this quote - so it's not just a de facto Tech Modern default.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/12/art-drama-languages-and-geography-to-become-preserve-of-private-schools-as-state-sector-cuts-bite

    'Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “Subjects we have always seen as culturally really important will increasingly become the preserve of private schools because state schools can’t afford to teach them.”

    He told the Observer that subjects that attract fewer pupils at GCSE and A-level, including drama, art, German and French, would all be in danger of being axed, because “one teacher to 20 children won’t be viable any more”.

    Subjects like design technology, which is expensive because schools have to buy materials and classes can’t be big for safety reasons, would also be at risk, he said.'

    The modern languages in particular are another issue - for university entrance AIUI.
    The really problematic one in Scotland is economics, which is basically only taught in private schools these days. A truly dismaying state of affairs, especially when
    you look at the charts for the average earnings of different graduates. But yes, a daughter of a good friend of mine has just started at St Andrews in International relations. She got her place because her
    private school helped her become completely fluent in French, Spanish and Italian (have so say that a lot of family skiing holidays probably helped too). What chance does a state school pupil have of competing with that?
    It’s all going downhill
    Well I presume the skiing did. More troubling though is that rather than create additional ladders and pathways for those with ambition and talent born into modest circumstances, we seem to be finding less and less opportunities. This is definitely not helping our economic performance nor is it helping with social cohesion.
    There are only two real priorities in public policy: minimising the taxation of assets and the state pension triple lock. Everything else is expendable.

    Time for our regular reminder that the nation's entire population of schoolkids was thrown on the educational scrap pile for the better part of two years in the desperate scramble to save the lives of octogenarian homeowners, and yet gold-plated state pensions are to be maintained and inheritances of up to £1,000,000 can still be transmitted tax-free - all whilst the education system is allowed to fall apart, as school heads prepare to order mass sackings of their own staff in order to afford to cover unfunded pay rises for the survivors, as well as colossal energy bills.

    Quite why the politicians in favour of this cross-party consensus would be expected to give a flying fuck about the kids of anyone who can't afford to send their offspring to Eton being unable to study foreign languages at school is quite beyond me.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 32,135
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    I remember a long time ago reading Room at the Top (which I am dismayed to see was published in 1957) which very much identified that sort of problem. My father, who came from a very working class background in Dundee, had very similar issues when he was commissioned as an officer in the army.
    Talking about educating the working classes, this has popped up on the GRaun: and note the sting in the tail, at least of this quote - so it's not just a de facto Tech Modern default.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/12/art-drama-languages-and-geography-to-become-preserve-of-private-schools-as-state-sector-cuts-bite

    'Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “Subjects we have always seen as culturally really important will increasingly become the preserve of private schools because state schools can’t afford to teach them.”

    He told the Observer that subjects that attract fewer pupils at GCSE and A-level, including drama, art, German and French, would all be in danger of being axed, because “one teacher to 20 children won’t be viable any more”.

    Subjects like design technology, which is expensive because schools have to buy materials and classes can’t be big for safety reasons, would also be at risk, he said.'

    The modern languages in particular are another issue - for university entrance AIUI.
    The really problematic one in Scotland is economics, which is basically only taught in private schools these days. A truly dismaying state of affairs, especially when
    you look at the charts for the average earnings of different graduates. But yes, a daughter of a good friend of mine has just started at St Andrews in International relations. She got her place because her
    private school helped her become completely fluent in French, Spanish and Italian (have so say that a lot of family skiing holidays probably helped too). What chance does a state school pupil have of competing with that?
    It’s all going downhill
    Well I presume the skiing did. More troubling though is that rather than create additional ladders and pathways for those with ambition and talent born into modest circumstances, we seem to be finding less and less opportunities. This is definitely not helping our economic performance nor is it helping with social cohesion.
    Went to a rowing club dinner last night.

    The guest speaker was https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_Sbihi

    Who had a fair bit to say about how being introduced to rowing at his state school by a talent hunting program changed his life. Not just the Olympic medals, but in terms of opening his eyes to the world beyond the expectations of “where I was from”

    The rowing club in question, incidentally, has a massive program of working with state schools on rowing, as a charity - the adult rowing is the smaller part of what they do.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    I remember a long time ago reading Room at the Top (which I am dismayed to see was published in 1957) which very much identified that sort of problem. My father, who came from a very working class background in Dundee, had very similar issues when he was commissioned as an officer in the army.
    Talking about educating the working classes, this has popped up on the GRaun: and note the sting in the tail, at least of this quote - so it's not just a de facto Tech Modern default.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/12/art-drama-languages-and-geography-to-become-preserve-of-private-schools-as-state-sector-cuts-bite

    'Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “Subjects we have always seen as culturally really important will increasingly become the preserve of private schools because state schools can’t afford to teach them.”

    He told the Observer that subjects that attract fewer pupils at GCSE and A-level, including drama, art, German and French, would all be in danger of being axed, because “one teacher to 20 children won’t be viable any more”.

    Subjects like design technology, which is expensive because schools have to buy materials and classes can’t be big for safety reasons, would also be at risk, he said.'

    The modern languages in particular are another issue - for university entrance AIUI.
    The really problematic one in Scotland is economics, which is basically only taught in private schools these days. A truly dismaying state of affairs, especially when
    you look at the charts for the average earnings of different graduates. But yes, a daughter of a good friend of mine has just started at St Andrews in International relations. She got her place because her
    private school helped her become completely fluent in French, Spanish and Italian (have so say that a lot of family skiing holidays probably helped too). What chance does a state school pupil have of competing with that?
    It’s all going downhill
    Well I presume the skiing did. More troubling though is that rather than create additional ladders and pathways for those with ambition and talent born into modest circumstances, we seem to be finding less and less opportunities. This is definitely not helping our economic performance nor is it helping with social cohesion.
    There are only two real priorities in public policy: minimising the taxation of assets and the state pension triple lock. Everything else is expendable.

    Time for our regular reminder that the nation's entire population of schoolkids was thrown on the educational scrap pile for the better part of two years in the desperate scramble to save the lives of octogenarian homeowners, and yet gold-plated state pensions are to be maintained and inheritances of up to £1,000,000 can still be transmitted tax-free - all whilst the education system is allowed to fall apart, as school heads prepare to order mass sackings of their own staff in order to afford to cover unfunded pay rises for the survivors, as well as colossal energy bills.

    Quite why the politicians in favour of this cross-party consensus would be expected to give a flying fuck about the kids of anyone who can't afford to send their offspring to Eton being unable to study foreign languages at school is quite beyond me.
    Good try, but Covid was mainly a disease of council house tenants

    https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/the-housing-pandemic-four-graphs-showing-the-link-between-covid-19-deaths-and-the-housing-crisis-66562
  • kle4 said:

    In a way these figures make me wonder more about why there was comparitively slow growth from the 50s.

    There has always been immigration to Britain — that’s my heritage — but the historical trend is obviously remarkable.

    The overall foreign born population of Britain has risen from:

    • 0.6% in 1851
    • 1.5% in 1901
    • 4.2% in 1951
    • 8.3% in 2001
    • 16.8% in 2022


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1589259006232891392?cxt=HHwWgMDQqaupl44sAAAA

    We live in a more mobile world. That 16.8% includes two of my kids, born in the US to British parents.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,073
    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    In a way these figures make me wonder more about why there was comparitively slow growth from the 50s.

    There has always been immigration to Britain — that’s my heritage — but the historical trend is obviously remarkable.

    The overall foreign born population of Britain has risen from:

    • 0.6% in 1851
    • 1.5% in 1901
    • 4.2% in 1951
    • 8.3% in 2001
    • 16.8% in 2022


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1589259006232891392?cxt=HHwWgMDQqaupl44sAAAA

    1) It wasn't until the 1970s we joined the EU, and until the 00s there wasn't a massive imbalance in the wealth of countries with freedom of movement.
    2) Immigration (especially from the third world) grows exponentially. Each immigrant generates more immigrants as potential immigrants have mpre contacts in the host country.
    3) Immigrants need a certain amount of resource to get started. Back in the 50s, much of the world was simply too poor to move.
    Yes. In the days of the Empire, hundreds of millions of people from the colonies had the legal right to reside in the UK, but couldn't afford to pay the fare. Quite a substantial proportion of immigrants from the colonies came as stowaways.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    New twist coming at 5.00 on a Tory Ministerial scandal

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1591475293398728704

    Nothing yet
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    edited November 2022
    Ishmael_Z said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    New twist coming at 5.00 on a Tory Ministerial scandal

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1591475293398728704

    Nothing yet

    Yeah there is, its Conor Burns. He's not guilty and Morton overreacted suspending the whip is the story
  • kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Are there any female posters left?
    Cyclefree’s departure is not good at all.

    This site risks becoming a bubble of broadly convergent views which in turn reduces its utility.

    No, I don’t know what the solution is.

    CarlottaVance despite the brickbats thrown her way by some of our Scottish contingent is the only one I can think of still posting regularly.
    Is @MoonRabbit not genuinely a horse racing fanatic lesbian then?
    LOL. After that first race scrub horse racing and add bunked off school. It took two weeks to convince PB I wasn’t a foreign bot new to English Language. One year in they are still teaching me English Grammar!
    Yes but to be fair your posts often lie somewhere between navigating a labyrinth and wading through treacle.
    I like them.

    I’m getting punchier 🥊
    Your midterms punditry (ex Nevada) was v good.
    Is Nevada over? 😝

    Polls consistently put her a long way behind, AND the Dem governor got flipped, so would be a remarkable hold.
    "Polls consistently put her [Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto] a long way behind"

    Really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_Senate_election_in_Nevada

    BTW, do we think that Nate Freaking Silver STILL has confidence in Fucking Trafalgar?

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 43,011
    edited November 2022

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    My comment asking that we get rid of the “like” button has now got four “likes”

    I am vindicated. Get rid of it!

    My 'like' was sarcastic. ;)
    Mine too. In general I just use the like button either when someone posts some good or just jolly news (child passed their exams, whatever), for a quip that amused me, or if someone replies to me with some help/clarification but it doesn't need a full quote/reply to just say 'ta'.
    But plenty of other people treat it as a gesture of political solidarity. It's tedious and childish and bad for debate, as it cows the obviously less popular opinions from being expressed
    Yes that's a point. Should be considered, I agree. But say I did a post (a decent one) and then all the 'left team' posters quote-replied it in full with ecstatic one-liners like "+ 1000" or "terrific post!" or "this" or "preach brother preach" ... wouldn't that get on people's nerves?
    The Like button is simply a vile invention. It is the social media equivalent of fentanyl. It is designed to be horribly addictive, it brings nothing genuinely good, only negative emotions, even for the Liked. Ooh, I got 9 Likes, I will try and get more!

    The people that designed the Like button admit this, now, and many regret the innovation. It has been bad for the human soul. It is especially corrosive on a site like PB

    At the very least - if this is possible - we should try a temporary suspension, see if it improves things
    There's no Like button on Rail Forums! Mind, with their moderation policy you'd probably be banned after your first post.
    I had this image removed from RUKF :lol:


  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 895
    Not sure if LauraK has been given a nod on this, but https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63599465

    "Spending cuts of about £35bn and plans to raise some £20bn in tax in the coming years are expected to be set out in Thursday's Autumn Statement.

    None of Jeremy Hunt's decisions have been officially confirmed, but I understand most of the extra revenue will come from freezing tax thresholds.

    The levy on energy firms is also set to rise and last for another six years."
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    New twist coming at 5.00 on a Tory Ministerial scandal

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1591475293398728704

    Nothing yet

    Yeah there is, its Conor Burns. He's not guilty and Morton overreacted suspending the whip is the story
    Thanks

    Underwhelming
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,773

    algarkirk said:

    A thought on listless political discussion.

    I reckon part of the problem is that, right now, there's only one realistic option open to the UK, and it's not an attractive one.

    The retrenchment after 2008 had choices to debate- how much tax rise, how much spending cut. This one, much less so- taxes are going to go up as much as possible, spending is going to be cut as much as possible, and everyone is hoping that will allow the fiscal trousers to button up.

    The brief firework that was the Truss premiership was a desparate attempt to escape that, but it didn't work because it was alway a thousand to one shot.

    The hangover has started, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. It doesn't really matter if its origin was 2020, 2016, 2010, 2008, the 1980s or 1945. There's a hangover to come, and the only real cure is time and pain.

    Your post is put well, but I disagree on the basics. We cannot 'save up and plug the hole' if we get recession. A contracting economy enlarges the hole because tax revenue dips, and unemployment benefit increases. It's fighting a losing battle. Growth is the only way through this, and Sunak's Government will be forced to recognise that, whether they like it or not. Truss's approach was like a bull in a china shop, and that's a shame, but fundamentally she was spot on.
    PB currently reflects the fact that the Overton window appears narrow at the moment. In the UK if you take out Brexit as such and SNP, both of which cut across traditional lines, there is almost too much agreement. This causes much agitation about small things - the narcissism of small differences, and of course focus on character.

    But in reality socialism, unbridled capitalism, small state, marxism, libertarianism, radicalism, 'Year Nought' thinking, old fashioned liberalism, religious politics etc are all in severe decay.

    Leaving only a Social Democrat debate about where exactly to pitch your stall for a combination of massive state, massive corporate enterprise, small scale enterprise and third sector.

    In truth this is amazingly dull. the other subject that is dull is competence, which is the one great issue of our day.

    That's a very Western-centric view. Not much evidence of a social democratic statist consensus in Dubai, which is why their economy is exploding and the Western economies are falling back.
    Yes, it's a view about the UK. North Korea has different Overton windows, as does Iran, Dubai and Russia.

    It's not a moral sentiment, it's a view about what is thought possible in a society. So, for example, in UK criminalizing gays would be outside the Overton window. In Dubai however the reverse may be the case.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,635
    rcs1000 said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    They gave council houses the vote?
    No taxation without representation!

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    New twist coming at 5.00 on a Tory Ministerial scandal

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1591475293398728704

    Nothing yet

    Yeah there is, its Conor Burns. He's not guilty and Morton overreacted suspending the whip is the story
    Thanks

    Underwhelming
    Very. Like most things Hodges ramps.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    edited November 2022
    Masters not conceding Az is today's 'optimistic' award
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,635
    kle4 said:

    In a way these figures make me wonder more about why there was comparitively slow growth from the 50s.

    There has always been immigration to Britain — that’s my heritage — but the historical trend is obviously remarkable.

    The overall foreign born population of Britain has risen from:

    • 0.6% in 1851
    • 1.5% in 1901
    • 4.2% in 1951
    • 8.3% in 2001
    • 16.8% in 2022


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1589259006232891392?cxt=HHwWgMDQqaupl44sAAAA

    +4% in 100 years (1851-1951)
    +4% in 50 years (1951-2001)
    +8% in 20 years (2001-22)

    And they wonder why people were discomforted by the rate of change and increasing population / capacity constraints in public services

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,773
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    My comment asking that we get rid of the “like” button has now got four “likes”

    I am vindicated. Get rid of it!

    My 'like' was sarcastic. ;)
    Mine too. In general I just use the like button either when someone posts some good or just jolly news (child passed their exams, whatever), for a quip that amused me, or if someone replies to me with some help/clarification but it doesn't need a full quote/reply to just say 'ta'.
    But plenty of other people treat it as a gesture of political solidarity. It's tedious and childish and bad for debate, as it cows the obviously less popular opinions from being expressed
    The like button avoids the thread being clogged up with "+1", "thanks", I agree", and "good post".
    It is also a short and easy way of acknowledging a post that may have agreed with yours without having to add any more to the point. I don't agree that it stifles contrary views, certainly not on here. Possibly on MSM threads where the default setting is the most liked items on the thread and you don't see the others.
    Agree.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 18,053
    kinabalu said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    Snap - I'm a former Labour voting lad who did well in work and in marriage - would never have thought of buying a house if it wasn't for my better half - it's the "inside" bit isn't it that still makes you working class but so hard to define. I know I have a chip on my shoulder re the Labour Party Brexit stance which in area (Ashfield) a lot of voters appear to share hence the popularity of Ashfield Independents
    The two Labour Parties.

    One, of the North London supper party.

    The other, of the pie and peas supper down the Working Men's Club.

    The first had stopped listening to the second.
    Is Starmer forging the right balance iyo?
    I think having the likes of Rayner, Nandy and Philipson on the front bench helps to point him in the right direction, but we still need a manifesto full of policies to address the concerns of the average working person.

    For the workers, not the wokers.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 18,053
    algarkirk said:

    Anyhow, I am about to start reading 'A Rising Man' by Abir Mukherjee. Historical crime fiction not my usual thing, but £2 from a charity shop, so I'll give it a go...

    Quite good. Worth a read, as is its successor.

    Sixty pages in, and enjoying it so far.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,232
    Ishmael_Z said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    I remember a long time ago reading Room at the Top (which I am dismayed to see was published in 1957) which very much identified that sort of problem. My father, who came from a very working class background in Dundee, had very similar issues when he was commissioned as an officer in the army.
    Talking about educating the working classes, this has popped up on the GRaun: and note the sting in the tail, at least of this quote - so it's not just a de facto Tech Modern default.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/12/art-drama-languages-and-geography-to-become-preserve-of-private-schools-as-state-sector-cuts-bite

    'Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “Subjects we have always seen as culturally really important will increasingly become the preserve of private schools because state schools can’t afford to teach them.”

    He told the Observer that subjects that attract fewer pupils at GCSE and A-level, including drama, art, German and French, would all be in danger of being axed, because “one teacher to 20 children won’t be viable any more”.

    Subjects like design technology, which is expensive because schools have to buy materials and classes can’t be big for safety reasons, would also be at risk, he said.'

    The modern languages in particular are another issue - for university entrance AIUI.
    The really problematic one in Scotland is economics, which is basically only taught in private schools these days. A truly dismaying state of affairs, especially when
    you look at the charts for the average earnings of different graduates. But yes, a daughter of a good friend of mine has just started at St Andrews in International relations. She got her place because her
    private school helped her become completely fluent in French, Spanish and Italian (have so say that a lot of family skiing holidays probably helped too). What chance does a state school pupil have of competing with that?
    It’s all going downhill
    Well I presume the skiing did. More troubling though is that rather than create additional ladders and pathways for those with ambition and talent born into modest circumstances, we seem to be finding less and less opportunities. This is definitely not helping our economic performance nor is it helping with social cohesion.
    There are only two real priorities in public policy: minimising the taxation of assets and the state pension triple lock. Everything else is expendable.

    Time for our regular reminder that the nation's entire population of schoolkids was thrown on the educational scrap pile for the better part of two years in the desperate scramble to save the lives of octogenarian homeowners, and yet gold-plated state pensions are to be maintained and inheritances of up to £1,000,000 can still be transmitted tax-free - all whilst the education system is allowed to fall apart, as school heads prepare to order mass sackings of their own staff in order to afford to cover unfunded pay rises for the survivors, as well as colossal energy bills.

    Quite why the politicians in favour of this cross-party consensus would be expected to give a flying fuck about the kids of anyone who can't afford to send their offspring to Eton being unable to study foreign languages at school is quite beyond me.
    Good try, but Covid was mainly a disease of council house tenants

    https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/the-housing-pandemic-four-graphs-showing-the-link-between-covid-19-deaths-and-the-housing-crisis-66562
    "Mainly" would be something of an exaggeration, to put it mildly, given how modest a fraction of the population lives in social housing, and those figures are likely skewed by vulnerable working age people employed in essential low-income occupations (e.g. supermarket shelf-stackers) who couldn't reduce their exposure to the virus by working from home all the time, and were more likely to end up dead as a result.

    Regardless, the essential point holds: young people with few or no assets have been made to bear the economic burden - before and after Covid, as well as during the peak phase of the pandemic - of supporting legions of asset rich elderly, who have basically been mollycoddled the whole time. The entire economy is rigged to favour the interests of the asset rich and the old - two groups whose circles on a Venn diagram would heavily intersect - and will continue to be so.

    We find ourselves facing chronic problems with low productivity and a lack of skills because investing in the young is a matter of no interest or importance to a country that is entirely given over to enriching the retired and ensuring that their property wealth can be passed on to their late middle-aged heirs intact. The sinking of an ever-greater share of national wealth into unproductive assets (houses) and unproductive people (pensioners) is at the root of most of our problems.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,829
    edited November 2022
    kle4 said:

    In a way these figures make me wonder more about why there was comparitively slow growth from the 50s.

    There has always been immigration to Britain — that’s my heritage — but the historical trend is obviously remarkable.

    The overall foreign born population of Britain has risen from:

    • 0.6% in 1851
    • 1.5% in 1901
    • 4.2% in 1951
    • 8.3% in 2001
    • 16.8% in 2022


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1589259006232891392?cxt=HHwWgMDQqaupl44sAAAA

    Hmm, I wonder how 'Britain' is defined? That is because I'd qualify those data with the thought that the concept of foreignness has varied. The Irish and in particular the RC Irish were very much considered foreign, in important senses, during much of the 19th and 20th centuries. In Edinburgh 150-200 years ago, for instance, there'd be the odd Black such as the chap who taught Charles Darwin how to taxidermise birds, but down the hill in the Cowgate slums the 'foreign other' was very much the Irish and to some extent also the poor Gaelic transmigrants.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 18,053
    rcs1000 said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    They gave council houses the vote?
    Where's the 'groan' button?
  • kle4 said:

    In a way these figures make me wonder more about why there was comparitively slow growth from the 50s.

    There has always been immigration to Britain — that’s my heritage — but the historical trend is obviously remarkable.

    The overall foreign born population of Britain has risen from:

    • 0.6% in 1851
    • 1.5% in 1901
    • 4.2% in 1951
    • 8.3% in 2001
    • 16.8% in 2022


    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/1589259006232891392?cxt=HHwWgMDQqaupl44sAAAA

    When I first arrived in the UK in early 1976, I spoke not a word of English. But that was probably because I was only 4 months old :lol:
    Coming over here, looking at our trains...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    pigeon said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    I remember a long time ago reading Room at the Top (which I am dismayed to see was published in 1957) which very much identified that sort of problem. My father, who came from a very working class background in Dundee, had very similar issues when he was commissioned as an officer in the army.
    Talking about educating the working classes, this has popped up on the GRaun: and note the sting in the tail, at least of this quote - so it's not just a de facto Tech Modern default.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/12/art-drama-languages-and-geography-to-become-preserve-of-private-schools-as-state-sector-cuts-bite

    'Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “Subjects we have always seen as culturally really important will increasingly become the preserve of private schools because state schools can’t afford to teach them.”

    He told the Observer that subjects that attract fewer pupils at GCSE and A-level, including drama, art, German and French, would all be in danger of being axed, because “one teacher to 20 children won’t be viable any more”.

    Subjects like design technology, which is expensive because schools have to buy materials and classes can’t be big for safety reasons, would also be at risk, he said.'

    The modern languages in particular are another issue - for university entrance AIUI.
    The really problematic one in Scotland is economics, which is basically only taught in private schools these days. A truly dismaying state of affairs, especially when
    you look at the charts for the average earnings of different graduates. But yes, a daughter of a good friend of mine has just started at St Andrews in International relations. She got her place because her
    private school helped her become completely fluent in French, Spanish and Italian (have so say that a lot of family skiing holidays probably helped too). What chance does a state school pupil have of competing with that?
    It’s all going downhill
    Well I presume the skiing did. More troubling though is that rather than create additional ladders and pathways for those with ambition and talent born into modest circumstances, we seem to be finding less and less opportunities. This is definitely not helping our economic performance nor is it helping with social cohesion.
    There are only two real priorities in public policy: minimising the taxation of assets and the state pension triple lock. Everything else is expendable.

    Time for our regular reminder that the nation's entire population of schoolkids was thrown on the educational scrap pile for the better part of two years in the desperate scramble to save the lives of octogenarian homeowners, and yet gold-plated state pensions are to be maintained and inheritances of up to £1,000,000 can still be transmitted tax-free - all whilst the education system is allowed to fall apart, as school heads prepare to order mass sackings of their own staff in order to afford to cover unfunded pay rises for the survivors, as well as colossal energy bills.

    Quite why the politicians in favour of this cross-party consensus would be expected to give a flying fuck about the kids of anyone who can't afford to send their offspring to Eton being unable to study foreign languages at school is quite beyond me.
    Good try, but Covid was mainly a disease of council house tenants

    https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/the-housing-pandemic-four-graphs-showing-the-link-between-covid-19-deaths-and-the-housing-crisis-66562
    "Mainly" would be something of an exaggeration, to put it mildly, given how modest a fraction of the population lives in social housing, and those figures are likely skewed by vulnerable working age people employed in essential low-income occupations (e.g. supermarket shelf-stackers) who couldn't reduce their exposure to the virus by working from home all the time, and were more likely to end up dead as a result.

    Regardless, the essential point holds: young people with few or no assets have been made to bear the economic burden - before and after Covid, as well as during the peak phase of the pandemic - of supporting legions of asset rich elderly, who have basically been mollycoddled the whole time. The entire economy is rigged to favour the interests of the asset rich and the old - two groups whose circles on a Venn diagram would heavily intersect - and will continue to be so.

    We find ourselves facing chronic problems with low productivity and a lack of skills because investing in the young is a matter of no interest or importance to a country that is entirely given over to enriching the retired and ensuring that their property wealth can be passed on to their late middle-aged heirs intact. The sinking of an ever-greater share of national wealth into unproductive assets (houses) and unproductive people (pensioners) is at the root of most of our problems.
    Otherwise, as avarice is the necessary consequence of old age, those immortals would in time become proprietors of the whole nation, and engross the civil power, which, for want of abilities to manage, must end in the ruin of the public.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    @Sunil_Prasannan have you seen Hancock ancient apocalypse on Netflix? Episode 1 Sundaland
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,829
    Ishmael_Z said:

    pigeon said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    I remember a long time ago reading Room at the Top (which I am dismayed to see was published in 1957) which very much identified that sort of problem. My father, who came from a very working class background in Dundee, had very similar issues when he was commissioned as an officer in the army.
    Talking about educating the working classes, this has popped up on the GRaun: and note the sting in the tail, at least of this quote - so it's not just a de facto Tech Modern default.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/nov/12/art-drama-languages-and-geography-to-become-preserve-of-private-schools-as-state-sector-cuts-bite

    'Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “Subjects we have always seen as culturally really important will increasingly become the preserve of private schools because state schools can’t afford to teach them.”

    He told the Observer that subjects that attract fewer pupils at GCSE and A-level, including drama, art, German and French, would all be in danger of being axed, because “one teacher to 20 children won’t be viable any more”.

    Subjects like design technology, which is expensive because schools have to buy materials and classes can’t be big for safety reasons, would also be at risk, he said.'

    The modern languages in particular are another issue - for university entrance AIUI.
    The really problematic one in Scotland is economics, which is basically only taught in private schools these days. A truly dismaying state of affairs, especially when
    you look at the charts for the average earnings of different graduates. But yes, a daughter of a good friend of mine has just started at St Andrews in International relations. She got her place because her
    private school helped her become completely fluent in French, Spanish and Italian (have so say that a lot of family skiing holidays probably helped too). What chance does a state school pupil have of competing with that?
    It’s all going downhill
    Well I presume the skiing did. More troubling though is that rather than create additional ladders and pathways for those with ambition and talent born into modest circumstances, we seem to be finding less and less opportunities. This is definitely not helping our economic performance nor is it helping with social cohesion.
    There are only two real priorities in public policy: minimising the taxation of assets and the state pension triple lock. Everything else is expendable.

    Time for our regular reminder that the nation's entire population of schoolkids was thrown on the educational scrap pile for the better part of two years in the desperate scramble to save the lives of octogenarian homeowners, and yet gold-plated state pensions are to be maintained and inheritances of up to £1,000,000 can still be transmitted tax-free - all whilst the education system is allowed to fall apart, as school heads prepare to order mass sackings of their own staff in order to afford to cover unfunded pay rises for the survivors, as well as colossal energy bills.

    Quite why the politicians in favour of this cross-party consensus would be expected to give a flying fuck about the kids of anyone who can't afford to send their offspring to Eton being unable to study foreign languages at school is quite beyond me.
    Good try, but Covid was mainly a disease of council house tenants

    https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/the-housing-pandemic-four-graphs-showing-the-link-between-covid-19-deaths-and-the-housing-crisis-66562
    "Mainly" would be something of an exaggeration, to put it mildly, given how modest a fraction of the population lives in social housing, and those figures are likely skewed by vulnerable working age people employed in essential low-income occupations (e.g. supermarket shelf-stackers) who couldn't reduce their exposure to the virus by working from home all the time, and were more likely to end up dead as a result.

    Regardless, the essential point holds: young people with few or no assets have been made to bear the economic burden - before and after Covid, as well as during the peak phase of the pandemic - of supporting legions of asset rich elderly, who have basically been mollycoddled the whole time. The entire economy is rigged to favour the interests of the asset rich and the old - two groups whose circles on a Venn diagram would heavily intersect - and will continue to be so.

    We find ourselves facing chronic problems with low productivity and a lack of skills because investing in the young is a matter of no interest or importance to a country that is entirely given over to enriching the retired and ensuring that their property wealth can be passed on to their late middle-aged heirs intact. The sinking of an ever-greater share of national wealth into unproductive assets (houses) and unproductive people (pensioners) is at the root of most of our problems.
    Otherwise, as avarice is the necessary consequence of old age, those immortals would in time become proprietors of the whole nation, and engross the civil power, which, for want of abilities to manage, must end in the ruin of the public.
    That role is taken in this polity by the private family trusts, no?
  • MoonRabbit asks: "Is Nevada over?"

    In the US, traditionally contests "ain't over till the fat lady sings".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_ain't_over_till_the_fat_lady_sings

    More seriously, it will be over for most practical purposes when one or more news organizations declare a winner, over when election officials certify the election, and, possibly, over when the legal challenges are finished. (Bettors may have to wait for the second; I don't know about the rules on third.)

    Brit bookies have learned (sorta) the hard way (definitely) that they can NOT rely on newpaper or even semi-official election "calls" as totally definitive.

    The 2008 Iowa precinct caucuses on GOP side being major example. IIRC the bookes (mostly) took the declaration by Iowa Republican Party officials that Mitt Romney had "won" that year.

    Actual winner turned out to be Rick Santorum (remember him?)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Iowa_Republican_presidential_caucuses
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,403

    Yay - Forest didn't surrender a lead!!

    And didn't look too troubled either. The trend is heading in the right direction. Definitely not bottom as we go into the break.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,808

    vino said:

    vino said:

    There is no "working class" contributers on this site which to me seems to be a problem - all the labour supporters appear to be rich and voted remain - I mean look at Roger. Almost all the people I know voted leave but I appear to be the exception on here.

    Hello from a Labour Party member brought up in a council house who voted Leave.

    Yes, I have a well paid professional job these days, but that is because I put the effort in and took advantage of the educational opportunities presented to all of us, and I was clever enough to do well. Plus having parents who encouraged me to get on in life.

    Inside, I am the same lad from a Tyneside estate. I make the odd comment about "three types of Balsamic" just to take the piss out of myself, and highlight the internal conflicts of the working class made good.

    Snap - I'm a former Labour voting lad who did well in work and in marriage - would never have thought of buying a house if it wasn't for my better half - it's the "inside" bit isn't it that still makes you working class but so hard to define. I know I have a chip on my shoulder re the Labour Party Brexit stance which in area (Ashfield) a lot of voters appear to share hence the popularity of Ashfield Independents
    The two Labour Parties.

    One, of the North London supper party.

    The other, of the pie and peas supper down the Working Men's Club.

    The first had stopped listening to the second.
    Good post, but there is a third Labour Party - the party of the ethnic - mostly black and Muslim - ghettos. The Rotherhams, Bradfords, Tower Hamlets and so on, where they weigh Labour votes rather than counting them (and where the total number of votes is sometimes rather greater than the number on the electoral roll...) The Guardianista/student, ethnic and WWC votes are just as different in their concerns and aspirations as the shire/red wall/Metropolitan business Tories, though as they aren't in government, they can paper over the cracks at the moment.
  • THIS THREAD HAS BEEN SHELVED BY THERESE COFFEY
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,773

    algarkirk said:

    Anyhow, I am about to start reading 'A Rising Man' by Abir Mukherjee. Historical crime fiction not my usual thing, but £2 from a charity shop, so I'll give it a go...

    Quite good. Worth a read, as is its successor.

    Sixty pages in, and enjoying it so far.
    There are one or two Indian based crime series worth a look. Perveen Mistry series is strange, too wordy and long but informative and different; Vaseem Khan, Malabar House series is quite fun. For mindless relaxation Harriet Steele's series set in Ceylon (late empire) is OK.

  • This thread has just failed re-election

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 18,053

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    My comment asking that we get rid of the “like” button has now got four “likes”

    I am vindicated. Get rid of it!

    My 'like' was sarcastic. ;)
    Mine too. In general I just use the like button either when someone posts some good or just jolly news (child passed their exams, whatever), for a quip that amused me, or if someone replies to me with some help/clarification but it doesn't need a full quote/reply to just say 'ta'.
    But plenty of other people treat it as a gesture of political solidarity. It's tedious and childish and bad for debate, as it cows the obviously less popular opinions from being expressed
    Yes that's a point. Should be considered, I agree. But say I did a post (a decent one) and then all the 'left team' posters quote-replied it in full with ecstatic one-liners like "+ 1000" or "terrific post!" or "this" or "preach brother preach" ... wouldn't that get on people's nerves?
    The Like button is simply a vile invention. It is the social media equivalent of fentanyl. It is designed to be horribly addictive, it brings nothing genuinely good, only negative emotions, even for the Liked. Ooh, I got 9 Likes, I will try and get more!

    The people that designed the Like button admit this, now, and many regret the innovation. It has been bad for the human soul. It is especially corrosive on a site like PB

    At the very least - if this is possible - we should try a temporary suspension, see if it improves things
    There's no Like button on Rail Forums! Mind, with their moderation policy you'd probably be banned after your first post.
    I had this image removed from RUKF :lol:


    I hope you included a text description of what the image depicted, as per forum rules.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,505
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    algarkirk said:

    A thought on listless political discussion.

    I reckon part of the problem is that, right now, there's only one realistic option open to the UK, and it's not an attractive one.

    The retrenchment after 2008 had choices to debate- how much tax rise, how much spending cut. This one, much less so- taxes are going to go up as much as possible, spending is going to be cut as much as possible, and everyone is hoping that will allow the fiscal trousers to button up.

    The brief firework that was the Truss premiership was a desparate attempt to escape that, but it didn't work because it was alway a thousand to one shot.

    The hangover has started, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. It doesn't really matter if its origin was 2020, 2016, 2010, 2008, the 1980s or 1945. There's a hangover to come, and the only real cure is time and pain.

    Your post is put well, but I disagree on the basics. We cannot 'save up and plug the hole' if we get recession. A contracting economy enlarges the hole because tax revenue dips, and unemployment benefit increases. It's fighting a losing battle. Growth is the only way through this, and Sunak's Government will be forced to recognise that, whether they like it or not. Truss's approach was like a bull in a china shop, and that's a shame, but fundamentally she was spot on.
    PB currently reflects the fact that the Overton window appears narrow at the moment. In the UK if you take out Brexit as such and SNP, both of which cut across traditional lines, there is almost too much agreement. This causes much agitation about small things - the narcissism of small differences, and of course focus on character.

    But in reality socialism, unbridled capitalism, small state, marxism, libertarianism, radicalism, 'Year Nought' thinking, old fashioned liberalism, religious politics etc are all in severe decay.

    Leaving only a Social Democrat debate about where exactly to pitch your stall for a combination of massive state, massive corporate enterprise, small scale enterprise and third sector.

    In truth this is amazingly dull. the other subject that is dull is competence, which is the one great issue of our day.

    That's a very Western-centric view. Not much evidence of a social democratic statist consensus in Dubai, which is why their economy is exploding and the Western economies are falling back.
    Dubai's economy is booming because high oil prices mean it is currently awash with Saudi money. There is very little that is sustainable about its economy. And in general it's not a good idea about comparing city states with proper countries.
    A tired set of flatulent excuses. We have oil and gas in the UK. We're failing to develop it because of the same fatuous consensus I'm arguing against.
    I was being polite about your views before and removed some adjectives to do so. I will do so no longer. The idea that the UK oil and gas sector can be a contribution to the economy in any way comparable to Saudi Arabia and UAE is completely fucking ridiculous. Marginal production costs there are $5-10 per barrel. That is a tiny fraction of what it would cost here even if we gave oil companies complete permission to annex land at will and dig anywhere. And even if we did have oil that cheap, known reserves are less than 1% of what is in the UAE and Saudi Arabia. That is despite far more extensive exploration. Our population is also about seven times larger than the UAE's where most of the money is spent. I suggest you do some basic fact checking, or perhaps even have a discussion with someone who has worked in both places, before you start throwing terms like "flatulent" to those who point out why you are wrong.
    I won't take your swearing personally because you're swearing about something that quite clearly I never said.

    I never compared the UK oil and gas industry in size and scope with that of the UAE - though it's worth noting that apparently oil production accounts for less than 1% of Dubai's GDP these days. I merely suggest that given the rise in energy costs, it could be making a vastly more useful contribution than it currently is, had successive UK Governments provided a consistent tax and regulatory framework, and not paid any attention to those lobbying for a curtailment of the industry on ecological grounds, especially since the ecological upshot of such a curtailment is more carbon going into the atmosphere due to the inefficient nature of LNG imports. Successive governments pursued a lunatic energy policy that made us reliant on foreign imports, and even the current situation has failed to bring about a change to this ruinous course.

    You offered zero evidence to support your claim that the Dubai economy rests on an unstable footing. You didn't bother to say why 'proper countries' should be compared in their own category aside from city states. If you don't want your views to be criticised, you should try offering a little more than the threadbare toss you came up with.
  • WillG said:

    WillG said:

    algarkirk said:

    A thought on listless political discussion.

    I reckon part of the problem is that, right now, there's only one realistic option open to the UK, and it's not an attractive one.

    The retrenchment after 2008 had choices to debate- how much tax rise, how much spending cut. This one, much less so- taxes are going to go up as much as possible, spending is going to be cut as much as possible, and everyone is hoping that will allow the fiscal trousers to button up.

    The brief firework that was the Truss premiership was a desparate attempt to escape that, but it didn't work because it was alway a thousand to one shot.

    The hangover has started, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. It doesn't really matter if its origin was 2020, 2016, 2010, 2008, the 1980s or 1945. There's a hangover to come, and the only real cure is time and pain.

    Your post is put well, but I disagree on the basics. We cannot 'save up and plug the hole' if we get recession. A contracting economy enlarges the hole because tax revenue dips, and unemployment benefit increases. It's fighting a losing battle. Growth is the only way through this, and Sunak's Government will be forced to recognise that, whether they like it or not. Truss's approach was like a bull in a china shop, and that's a shame, but fundamentally she was spot on.
    PB currently reflects the fact that the Overton window appears narrow at the moment. In the UK if you take out Brexit as such and SNP, both of which cut across traditional lines, there is almost too much agreement. This causes much agitation about small things - the narcissism of small differences, and of course focus on character.

    But in reality socialism, unbridled capitalism, small state, marxism, libertarianism, radicalism, 'Year Nought' thinking, old fashioned liberalism, religious politics etc are all in severe decay.

    Leaving only a Social Democrat debate about where exactly to pitch your stall for a combination of massive state, massive corporate enterprise, small scale enterprise and third sector.

    In truth this is amazingly dull. the other subject that is dull is competence, which is the one great issue of our day.

    That's a very Western-centric view. Not much evidence of a social democratic statist consensus in Dubai, which is why their economy is exploding and the Western economies are falling back.
    Dubai's economy is booming because high oil prices mean it is currently awash with Saudi money. There is very little that is sustainable about its economy. And in general it's not a good idea about comparing city states with proper countries.
    A tired set of flatulent excuses. We have oil and gas in the UK. We're failing to develop it because of the same fatuous consensus I'm arguing against.
    I was being polite about your views before and removed some adjectives to do so. I will do so no longer. The idea that the UK oil and gas sector can be a contribution to the economy in any way comparable to Saudi Arabia and UAE is completely fucking ridiculous. Marginal production costs there are $5-10 per barrel. That is a tiny fraction of what it would cost here even if we gave oil companies complete permission to annex land at will and dig anywhere. And even if we did have oil that cheap, known reserves are less than 1% of what is in the UAE and Saudi Arabia. That is despite far more extensive exploration. Our population is also about seven times larger than the UAE's where most of the money is spent. I suggest you do some basic fact checking, or perhaps even have a discussion with someone who has worked in both places, before you start throwing terms like "flatulent" to those who point out why you are wrong.
    Whilst I agree with the overall thrust of what you are saying in terms of the impact of oil and gas on the UK economy compared to the Middle East, you are wrong to claim that the Middle Eastern marginal production costs are "a tiny fraction of what it would cost here". The equivalent numbers for the UK are around $16-20 dollars a barrel, so by no means vastly more expensive. I agree with just about everything else you say though.
  • Sack James Cleverly now, he's written in Le Monde the following rubbish.

    Ma présence à Paris le 11 novembre démontre que nous sommes amis, partenaires, alliés, que nous travaillons ensemble très étroitement en raison du retour de la guerre en Europe.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2022/11/12/james-cleverly-tout-le-monde-veut-que-le-conflit-trouve-une-issue-mais-elle-doit-etre-juste-pour-le-peuple-ukrainien_6149550_3210.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,749

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    My comment asking that we get rid of the “like” button has now got four “likes”

    I am vindicated. Get rid of it!

    My 'like' was sarcastic. ;)
    Mine too. In general I just use the like button either when someone posts some good or just jolly news (child passed their exams, whatever), for a quip that amused me, or if someone replies to me with some help/clarification but it doesn't need a full quote/reply to just say 'ta'.
    But plenty of other people treat it as a gesture of political solidarity. It's tedious and childish and bad for debate, as it cows the obviously less popular opinions from being expressed
    Yes that's a point. Should be considered, I agree. But say I did a post (a decent one) and then all the 'left team' posters quote-replied it in full with ecstatic one-liners like "+ 1000" or "terrific post!" or "this" or "preach brother preach" ... wouldn't that get on people's nerves?
    The Like button is simply a vile invention. It is the social media equivalent of fentanyl. It is designed to be horribly addictive, it brings nothing genuinely good, only negative emotions, even for the Liked. Ooh, I got 9 Likes, I will try and get more!

    The people that designed the Like button admit this, now, and many regret the innovation. It has been bad for the human soul. It is especially corrosive on a site like PB

    At the very least - if this is possible - we should try a temporary suspension, see if it improves things
    There's no Like button on Rail Forums! Mind, with their moderation policy you'd probably be banned after your first post.
    I had this image removed from RUKF :lol:


    Anyone else enjoy the irony of Sunil, of all people, being lured away by a railway line named after the Queen?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Are there any female posters left?
    Cyclefree’s departure is not good at all.

    This site risks becoming a bubble of broadly convergent views which in turn reduces its utility.

    No, I don’t know what the solution is.

    CarlottaVance despite the brickbats thrown her way by some of our Scottish contingent is the only one I can think of still posting regularly.
    Is @MoonRabbit not genuinely a horse racing fanatic lesbian then?
    LOL. After that first race scrub horse racing and add bunked off school. It took two weeks to convince PB I wasn’t a foreign bot new to English Language. One year in they are still teaching me English Grammar!
    Yes but to be fair your posts often lie somewhere between navigating a labyrinth and wading through treacle.
    I like them.

    I’m getting punchier 🥊
    Your midterms punditry (ex Nevada) was v good.
    Is Nevada over? 😝

    Polls consistently put her a long way behind, AND the Dem governor got flipped, so would be a remarkable hold.
    "Polls consistently put her [Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto] a long way behind"

    Really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_Senate_election_in_Nevada

    BTW, do we think that Nate Freaking Silver STILL has confidence in Fucking Trafalgar?

    Yes really. What you posted supports me. She was tipped to lose for a long time for a reason. The levels she was posting in all polls in the closing weeks clearly pointed to defeat - of the last 14 polls hit the height of 47 just once. Take the highest she recorded in the last weeks, the lowest, the average between them was much much closer to the lowest. And then the gaps. In the last month she lost more polls than won, but when she did win it was by no more than 2, opponent recorded 1x3 1x4 4x5 1x6. So she loses on quantity.

    But central to my argument of why I called these mid terms spot on is about quality - cowboy polling, with criminal intent not to be accurate, completely fogging the more honest polls. Even here on quality Cortez was in trouble, hence I called her to be the GOP flip - Laxalt led in nearly all the late polls and by 6 percent in the InsiderAdvantage poll in November and was ahead in the real clear average by 3.4 percent.
This discussion has been closed.