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CON polling better under Sunak but still way behind – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,981
    Will Schryver continues to believe that all is going swimmingly for the Russians:



    You do have to admire his consistency.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,993

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    Very absurd and very crass
    Yes. very crass. Actually offensive. For me, the closest comparison to the Kherson Liberation is Brexit Day, Friday 31st January, and the moment Boris won the GE in 2019, when we knew he would Ged Brexit Done

    The hideous oppressor was expelled, and the tanks of free movement and the artillery of trade regulations fled across the Channel, like the soldiers across the Dnieper, and it was like having a baby as well
    Even more absurdly crass. Only swiveleyed loons like you think the fools charter of Brexit is anything worth celebrating. "Ooo sovereinty sovereignty" we hear the brainwashed fuckwits cry. We already had our sovereignty you gullible thickheads.
    I read your post yesterday about your Euroscepticism with some interest, but it makes your stridency about Brexit seem a bit artificial. Surely you must see arguments on both sides, even if on balance you favoured Remain or thought the disadvantages outweighed any advantages from pulling out?

    If you're a William Hague-style Eurosceptic then you must think that the EU has done things and plans to do more things that we are better off steering clear of, but at the same time you are adamant that there are absolutely no benefits whatsoever from opting out of the whole lot. How can you be so sure that the line of what to opt in to was drawn in precisely the right place before 2016?
    I am a right of centre pragmatist, though I must admit that my putdowns of the lunatic Brexit apologists may well make me seem like an EU enthusiast when I never have been such. I was not in favour of joining Euro, and not in favour of "ever closer union", the latter which I think is mythological, as the French in particular have zero intention of being absorbed into a full-on union with Germany. I find British EU-phobia (as opposed to Eurosceptism) to be a pernicious and dangerously stupid ideology.
    Being part of an organisation whose explicit aims - Ever Closer Union - we are opposed to on the basis that we hope other members will share our opposition seems - well - a little trusting for my tastes.
    It is meaningless nonsense and is seen as such by many pro-Europeans. The only people who bang on about it are the rabid Euro-federalists, who are in reality a minority, and British EU-phobes.
    You need the political equivalent of the Hubble Telescope to see far enough into the future to detect a Federal Europe replacing the nation states.
    Its already happening.

    The states won't vanish, but neither have states in the USA. But the EU already has a federal currency, federal Central Bank, federal Parliament, federal Court and federal Commission.

    The idea that "the French won't cease to be French" is an anti-Federalist argument can only be said by someone who has never met a Texan.
    If you view the EU - now or in the foreseeable - as being remotely like the USA you're in a world I simply don't recognize. Which is fine. How's the weather?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Someone's feeling a bit sore.

    Going forward, accounts engaged in parody must include “parody” in their name, not just in bio
    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1590884973535711232

    Not sure he quite gets the concept of parody.

    Could usher in a refreshing new era where people put exactly what they're all about in their name so there can be no misunderrstandings.

    "Comedian"
    "Troll"
    "Entertainer-cum-Philosopher"
    "Serious Pundit"
    etc
    "Control freak billionaire with sense of humour failure"
    Does seem a bit like that. Twitter needs its light side imo. Still, I was thinking of the positives of his idea to have an overt role description in the account name. Eg it would become Dan "Serious Pundit" Hodges. No longer possible to mistake him for anything else.
    He already includes '"Worst political pundit in the West" in his description, albeit as something Greenwald apparently said about him.
    Ah, touch of self-deprecating humour. That goes a long way in life. Unless you overdo it, then it becomes perversely smug.
    I like to think I tread the line, but every day is a new battle.

    (Shit, overshot)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,981
    Alistair said:

    Question:

    Does Big Ron go and stump for Walker in the run-off?

    Actually, that's not the interesting question.

    The interesting question is, who will Walker accept help from?

    Will he have rallies headlined by Former President Trump, or by Governor DeSantis?
  • In the great Evergreen State of Washington, where 2.3 million ballots have been counted so far, estimated ballots remaining to be counted = 602,775.

    IF estimate is correct, then final voter turnout will = 60.2% of 4.8 million active registered voters.

    https://results.vote.wa.gov/results/20221108/turnout.html

    Note that the 600k remaining is the floor and NOT the ceiling. For on thing, some returned ballots not included in above numbers, for example challenged ballots that may (or may not) end up getting validated and counted.

    Even so, turnout for THIS midterm will be way down, compared to 71.8% turnout in 2018 general.

    Key races still undecided as of Thursday night:

    > WA Secretary of State
    > US House of Representatives, 3rd congressional district
    > WA Legislature - two state senate seats & six state house seats

    Despite fact it's Veterans Day, a public holiday in US, six of the largest counties in WA State will be processing ballots today AND reporting updated totals this evening.

    SO think that situation in the ten races highlighted, will be a lot clearer by tonight - either decided OR really really close.

    At moment, based on available numbers, am thinking Democrats are likely to win 7, 8 or even 9 of 10.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Possibly quite important. This is Putin's favourite Russian philosopher


    "Alexander Dugin directly blamed Putin for the retreat from Kherson. He stated that the power in Russia is almost autocratic, but if the tsar cannot save the people, then he will face the "king of the rains fate" (a man whose stomach was ritually torn open by his fellow tribesmen)"

    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1591114586891194368?s=20&t=zsv7SZfUZ3ijJnL0TIpY4g

    Calling Dugin a "philosopher" is akin to calling Trump a "statesman".
    That's what Putin calls him. He thus referenced Dugin (and Dugin's daughter) in his notorious annexation speech

    It may be significant that Dugin is turning on his leader
    Mene mene tekel upharsin
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited November 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Latest popular vote figures for the House:

    GOP 52.1%
    Dem 46.4%

    https://www.cookpolitical.com/charts/house-charts/national-house-vote-tracker/2022

    Not a true reflection due to 32 uncontested congressional districts. Also California still largely to come
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,869
    edited November 2022
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    Very absurd and very crass
    Yes. very crass. Actually offensive. For me, the closest comparison to the Kherson Liberation is Brexit Day, Friday 31st January, and the moment Boris won the GE in 2019, when we knew he would Ged Brexit Done

    The hideous oppressor was expelled, and the tanks of free movement and the artillery of trade regulations fled across the Channel, like the soldiers across the Dnieper, and it was like having a baby as well
    Even more absurdly crass. Only swiveleyed loons like you think the fools charter of Brexit is anything worth celebrating. "Ooo sovereinty sovereignty" we hear the brainwashed fuckwits cry. We already had our sovereignty you gullible thickheads.
    I read your post yesterday about your Euroscepticism with some interest, but it makes your stridency about Brexit seem a bit artificial. Surely you must see arguments on both sides, even if on balance you favoured Remain or thought the disadvantages outweighed any advantages from pulling out?

    If you're a William Hague-style Eurosceptic then you must think that the EU has done things and plans to do more things that we are better off steering clear of, but at the same time you are adamant that there are absolutely no benefits whatsoever from opting out of the whole lot. How can you be so sure that the line of what to opt in to was drawn in precisely the right place before 2016?
    I am a right of centre pragmatist, though I must admit that my putdowns of the lunatic Brexit apologists may well make me seem like an EU enthusiast when I never have been such. I was not in favour of joining Euro, and not in favour of "ever closer union", the latter which I think is mythological, as the French in particular have zero intention of being absorbed into a full-on union with Germany. I find British EU-phobia (as opposed to Eurosceptism) to be a pernicious and dangerously stupid ideology.
    Being part of an organisation whose explicit aims - Ever Closer Union - we are opposed to on the basis that we hope other members will share our opposition seems - well - a little trusting for my tastes.
    It is meaningless nonsense and is seen as such by many pro-Europeans. The only people who bang on about it are the rabid Euro-federalists, who are in reality a minority, and British EU-phobes.
    You need the political equivalent of the Hubble Telescope to see far enough into the future to detect a Federal Europe replacing the nation states.
    Its already happening.

    The states won't vanish, but neither have states in the USA. But the EU already has a federal currency, federal Central Bank, federal Parliament, federal Court and federal Commission.

    The idea that "the French won't cease to be French" is an anti-Federalist argument can only be said by someone who has never met a Texan.
    If you view the EU - now or in the foreseeable - as being remotely like the USA you're in a world I simply don't recognize. Which is fine. How's the weather?
    The EU is the EU, not the USA. Australia is Australia, not the USA too. No two federations are the same.

    Federal Europe, Federal Australia and Federal America are all very different. The EU is a nascent and evolving federation, just as 18thC USA and early 20thC Australia were, but it is an evolving one.

    If its not remotely a federation why does it already have a Federal Government (the Commission), Federal Central Bank, Federal Taxes, Federal Parliament, Federal Laws and Federal Supreme Court?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,993
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    Someone's feeling a bit sore.

    Going forward, accounts engaged in parody must include “parody” in their name, not just in bio
    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1590884973535711232

    Not sure he quite gets the concept of parody.

    Could usher in a refreshing new era where people put exactly what they're all about in their name so there can be no misunderrstandings.

    "Comedian"
    "Troll"
    "Entertainer-cum-Philosopher"
    "Serious Pundit"
    etc
    "Control freak billionaire with sense of humour failure"
    Does seem a bit like that. Twitter needs its light side imo. Still, I was thinking of the positives of his idea to have an overt role description in the account name. Eg it would become Dan "Serious Pundit" Hodges. No longer possible to mistake him for anything else.
    He already includes '"Worst political pundit in the West" in his description, albeit as something Greenwald apparently said about him.
    Ah, touch of self-deprecating humour. That goes a long way in life. Unless you overdo it, then it becomes perversely smug.
    I like to think I tread the line, but every day is a new battle.

    (Shit, overshot)
    🙂 - yes, careful.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,710
    rcs1000 said:

    Will Schryver continues to believe that all is going swimmingly for the Russians:



    You do have to admire his consistency.

    That consistency being very thick of course.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,065
    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,159
    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    Anything so you don't have rub shoulder at the airport with those horrid Tunisians... :smile:
  • HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    Very absurd and very crass
    Yes. very crass. Actually offensive. For me, the closest comparison to the Kherson Liberation is Brexit Day, Friday 31st January, and the moment Boris won the GE in 2019, when we knew he would Ged Brexit Done

    The hideous oppressor was expelled, and the tanks of free movement and the artillery of trade regulations fled across the Channel, like the soldiers across the Dnieper, and it was like having a baby as well
    Even more absurdly crass. Only swiveleyed loons like you think the fools charter of Brexit is anything worth celebrating. "Ooo sovereinty sovereignty" we hear the brainwashed fuckwits cry. We already had our sovereignty you gullible thickheads.
    I read your post yesterday about your Euroscepticism with some interest, but it makes your stridency about Brexit seem a bit artificial. Surely you must see arguments on both sides, even if on balance you favoured Remain or thought the disadvantages outweighed any advantages from pulling out?

    If you're a William Hague-style Eurosceptic then you must think that the EU has done things and plans to do more things that we are better off steering clear of, but at the same time you are adamant that there are absolutely no benefits whatsoever from opting out of the whole lot. How can you be so sure that the line of what to opt in to was drawn in precisely the right place before 2016?
    I am a right of centre pragmatist, though I must admit that my putdowns of the lunatic Brexit apologists may well make me seem like an EU enthusiast when I never have been such. I was not in favour of joining Euro, and not in favour of "ever closer union", the latter which I think is mythological, as the French in particular have zero intention of being absorbed into a full-on union with Germany. I find British EU-phobia (as opposed to Eurosceptism) to be a pernicious and dangerously stupid ideology.
    Being part of an organisation whose explicit aims - Ever Closer Union - we are opposed to on the basis that we hope other members will share our opposition seems - well - a little trusting for my tastes.
    It is meaningless nonsense and is seen as such by many pro-Europeans. The only people who bang on about it are the rabid Euro-federalists, who are in reality a minority, and British EU-phobes.
    You need the political equivalent of the Hubble Telescope to see far enough into the future to detect a Federal Europe replacing the nation states.
    Most at the top in Brussels are ideologically committed to an EU superstate able to match the US and China and, in time, India.

    The EU as Bart says already has its own Parliament, currency, court, executive commission and President. It will soon have its own army too and be a superstate in all but name.

    It is certainly no longer just the trading block we joined the Common Market for. Even had we voted Remain in due course we would have ended up on the outer edge with non Eurozone Sweden, Denmark and Poland and Hungary while the rest moved full steam ahead to federal union.



    We agree, except that I would regard that as a good thing, whereas you would think it a bad thing.

    Yes?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    I was wondering what was going on in Alaska's at-large congressional election. It was kind of funny that they had an election on August 16th and also now.

    In August it was

    First round
    Democrat - Peltola - 39.66%
    Republican - Palin - 30.92%
    Republican - Begich - 27.84%
    Write in - 1.58%

    With the Democrat winning the run off 51.48 to 48.52, with some surprising comments that the system was unfair as 'clearly' Alaska wanted a Republican, demonstrably incorrect since given the choice of a specific Republican they rejected them.

    Apparently at 80% reporting the results are currently, for the first round:

    Democrat - Peltola - 47.3%
    Republican - Palin - 26.6%
    Republican - Begich - 24.2%
    Libertarian - Bye - 1.7%
    Write ins - 0.3%

    That's potentially a pretty decent change in a couple of months, and knowing nothing about him I assume Begich must really dislike Palin to once again make sure she doesn't get all the Republican votes.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Question:

    Does Big Ron go and stump for Walker in the run-off?

    Actually, that's not the interesting question.

    The interesting question is, who will Walker accept help from?

    Will he have rallies headlined by Former President Trump, or by Governor DeSantis?
    DeSantis IF Walker still wants to win.

    As star running back, he's seen crapped-out old quarterback (at least one) benched in favor of rising new QB with better aim.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    Ratters said:

    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.

    The one line that barely seems to have changed from pre-February is the one near Donetsk. Both sides must be dug in deep.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    rcs1000 said:

    Will Schryver continues to believe that all is going swimmingly for the Russians:



    You do have to admire his consistency.

    In the same way as admiring someone who is 'principled'?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,354

    Andy_JS asked: "Why is the USA pretty much the only Western country that takes weeks to count its votes, instead of hours or days?

    First, let me repeat that most American states take days or even hours, so your question should be rephrased as follows: Why do some American states take weeks to count votes while most states count votes in days, or even hours?

    And the answer is, usually, because the slow states have longer and more complex ballots, and use mail ballots for all, or a large fraction, of their ballots. Counting mail ballots takes longer, since, among other things, vote counters have to compare signatures, with the signatures on file.

    (It's also my impression that few other nations allow write-in votes, which add still another layer of complexity to the counting.

    Thanks for the explanation.
  • Ratters said:

    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.

    What's interesting is that the breakthroughs have occurred on memorable dates. Kharkiv fell on the same date the Queen died, Kherson fell on Remembrance Day.

    The way this is going, expect Crimea to be liberated on Easter Sunday.
  • Good evening from the Empire Pool. Whilst I have a great view of the stage am amazed to see seats just a few rows in front that cannot see the stage at all due to the entry for the stairs up...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    edited November 2022
    Andy_JS said:
    Boebert definitely just scraping home as predicted earlier I see. I wonder if a close shave would lead to some self reflection.

    That seat in Washington where the former incumbent was primaried out for voting to impeach Trump looks like a Dem gain.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,417

    Ratters said:

    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.

    What's interesting is that the breakthroughs have occurred on memorable dates. Kharkiv fell on the same date the Queen died, Kherson fell on Remembrance Day.

    The way this is going, expect Crimea to be liberated on Easter Sunday.
    Christmas Day, 7th January.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited November 2022
    kle4 said:

    I was wondering what was going on in Alaska's at-large congressional election. It was kind of funny that they had an election on August 16th and also now.

    In August it was

    First round
    Democrat - Peltola - 39.66%
    Republican - Palin - 30.92%
    Republican - Begich - 27.84%
    Write in - 1.58%

    With the Democrat winning the run off 51.48 to 48.52, with some surprising comments that the system was unfair as 'clearly' Alaska wanted a Republican, demonstrably incorrect since given the choice of a specific Republican they rejected them.

    Apparently at 80% reporting the results are currently, for the first round:

    Democrat - Peltola - 47.3%
    Republican - Palin - 26.6%
    Republican - Begich - 24.2%
    Libertarian - Bye - 1.7%
    Write ins - 0.3%

    That's potentially a pretty decent change in a couple of months, and knowing nothing about him I assume Begich must really dislike Palin to once again make sure she doesn't get all the Republican votes.

    LOTS of Alaskans dislike Sarah Palin these days. Many see her as a reverse carpetbagger. Thus many of the Begich votes would NOT automatically have gone to Palin in his absence.

    Unless estimated 20% of the final votes still to be counted (for first preferences) are strongly skewed against incumbent US Rep. Mary Peltola, then reckon she's gonna win in the end.

    With Sarah Palin AND Donald Trump deserving most of the credit for the GOP (Grifters On Parade) pissing away yet another seat Republicans clearly could and should have won.
  • HYUFD said:

    [snip]

    Even had we voted Remain in due course we would have ended up on the outer edge with non Eurozone Sweden, Denmark and Poland and Hungary while the rest moved full steam ahead to federal union.

    Yes, exactly (except fuller union of the core won't be anything like at 'full steam ahead', more like a snail's pace with long periods of stasis, if it ever happens at all). We'd have had the best of all possible positions: all the advantages of full EU membership, without the excessive bits. It is such an extraordinary tragedy that we, of our own volition, threw it away. As I predicted at the time, we'll spend at least a decade, perhaps longer, painfully trying to claw back some of the lost ground, but we'll never get back to such a favourable position as we had.
    Sounds like Dave's Deal was the best realistic combo of access, input, veto and staying out of anything disagreeable.

    But as with "withdrawal but only as far as EEA", that wasn't enough for some people.

    The whiff of power does funny things to people
  • kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Boebert definitely just scraping home as predicted earlier I see. I wonder if a close shave would lead to some self reflection.

    That seat in Washington where the former incumbent was primaried out for voting to impeach Trump looks like a Dem gain.
    Probably good for the Dems that Boebert gets elected so that voters are reminded regularly of the chickenbrains in the GOP ranks.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,859
    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    They only destroyed it for "real people" Roger...us unreal people think differently but then you would rather we don't count as to you we are lady parts
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    edited November 2022
    I see the good folk of Nevada still get the option to vote 'None of these candidates' in their races. I remember hearing about it being legally challenged around a decade ago and obviously must have failed.

    Wiki says on a couple of occasions 'none of these candidates' has topped party primaries, with the result that the second place actual human got the nod.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Chris said:

    Remarkable that the BBC is incapable of getting even the simplest facts correct in its reporting of the war in Ukraine.

    "... the Antonovskiy Bridge - the main crossing over the Dnipro River on the west of the city [of Kherson] ..."

    Why not just look at a map if you don't know?

    We can’t all be as clever as you, Chris
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    edited November 2022

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    How has the country been "all but destroyed?"
    "The worst economic performance since records began'. BBC 5 O'Clock News.

    Supply chains 'Thanks to Brexit' the worst ever and Covid is NOT the major cause.
    FYI, here's a chart of UK and German #GDP, updated to include today's Q3 data for the UK.

    Since Q1 2016 (the quarter before the vote to leave the EU), the UK economy has grown by around 6.7% and the German economy by about 6.2%.

    #BrexitReality


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1591036294494576640
    Watch the Six o'clock news. We are the bottom of the G7 and the only one with deficit and if you compare the size of our economy with its pre Brexit size it has reduced significantly more than the other six. The cause is almost certainly Brexit according to Faisal Islam
  • Andy_JS said:
    Looking at the results in so far for those House seats, it's just amazing how many are within 2 or 3%.
  • kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Boebert definitely just scraping home as predicted earlier I see. I wonder if a close shave would lead to some self reflection.

    That seat in Washington where the former incumbent was primaried out for voting to impeach Trump looks like a Dem gain.
    IF the Democrat prevails in WA 3rd CD, yet another defeat for GOP snatched from jaws of victory, thanks to the Sage of Mar-a-Lardo. With able assist from SCOTUS.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,993
    edited November 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    Very absurd and very crass
    Yes. very crass. Actually offensive. For me, the closest comparison to the Kherson Liberation is Brexit Day, Friday 31st January, and the moment Boris won the GE in 2019, when we knew he would Ged Brexit Done

    The hideous oppressor was expelled, and the tanks of free movement and the artillery of trade regulations fled across the Channel, like the soldiers across the Dnieper, and it was like having a baby as well
    Even more absurdly crass. Only swiveleyed loons like you think the fools charter of Brexit is anything worth celebrating. "Ooo sovereinty sovereignty" we hear the brainwashed fuckwits cry. We already had our sovereignty you gullible thickheads.
    I read your post yesterday about your Euroscepticism with some interest, but it makes your stridency about Brexit seem a bit artificial. Surely you must see arguments on both sides, even if on balance you favoured Remain or thought the disadvantages outweighed any advantages from pulling out?

    If you're a William Hague-style Eurosceptic then you must think that the EU has done things and plans to do more things that we are better off steering clear of, but at the same time you are adamant that there are absolutely no benefits whatsoever from opting out of the whole lot. How can you be so sure that the line of what to opt in to was drawn in precisely the right place before 2016?
    I am a right of centre pragmatist, though I must admit that my putdowns of the lunatic Brexit apologists may well make me seem like an EU enthusiast when I never have been such. I was not in favour of joining Euro, and not in favour of "ever closer union", the latter which I think is mythological, as the French in particular have zero intention of being absorbed into a full-on union with Germany. I find British EU-phobia (as opposed to Eurosceptism) to be a pernicious and dangerously stupid ideology.
    Being part of an organisation whose explicit aims - Ever Closer Union - we are opposed to on the basis that we hope other members will share our opposition seems - well - a little trusting for my tastes.
    It is meaningless nonsense and is seen as such by many pro-Europeans. The only people who bang on about it are the rabid Euro-federalists, who are in reality a minority, and British EU-phobes.
    You need the political equivalent of the Hubble Telescope to see far enough into the future to detect a Federal Europe replacing the nation states.
    Most at the top in Brussels are ideologically committed to an EU superstate able to match the US and China and, in time, India.

    The EU as Bart says already has its own Parliament, currency, court, executive commission and President. It will soon have its own army too and be a superstate in all but name.

    It is certainly no longer just the trading block we joined the Common Market for. Even had we voted Remain in due course we would have ended up on the outer edge with non Eurozone Sweden, Denmark and Poland and Hungary while the rest moved full steam ahead to federal union.
    Impossible to predict and an odd reason to bail out imo. But fwiw - given you seem to buy it - was that the future YOU were hoping for when you voted Remain then? Us on the outer edge of a federal superstate? Or do you now prefer this - ie being outside even the outer edge? Like a kind of Pluto. I'd rather be back where we were, I must say. Third rock from the sun after Germany and France.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940

    Andy_JS said:
    Looking at the results in so far for those House seats, it's just amazing how many are within 2 or 3%.
    For all attempts at gerrymandering close contests cannot always be avoided (and as SeaShantyIrish2 notes, some places that should have been safe have ended up not being thanks to Trumpistas).
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    My Wife, a newly minted US-UK dual national, is now registered to vote in both jurisdictions. I fear for the future.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,445
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    Very absurd and very crass
    Yes. very crass. Actually offensive. For me, the closest comparison to the Kherson Liberation is Brexit Day, Friday 31st January, and the moment Boris won the GE in 2019, when we knew he would Ged Brexit Done

    The hideous oppressor was expelled, and the tanks of free movement and the artillery of trade regulations fled across the Channel, like the soldiers across the Dnieper, and it was like having a baby as well
    Even more absurdly crass. Only swiveleyed loons like you think the fools charter of Brexit is anything worth celebrating. "Ooo sovereinty sovereignty" we hear the brainwashed fuckwits cry. We already had our sovereignty you gullible thickheads.
    I read your post yesterday about your Euroscepticism with some interest, but it makes your stridency about Brexit seem a bit artificial. Surely you must see arguments on both sides, even if on balance you favoured Remain or thought the disadvantages outweighed any advantages from pulling out?

    If you're a William Hague-style Eurosceptic then you must think that the EU has done things and plans to do more things that we are better off steering clear of, but at the same time you are adamant that there are absolutely no benefits whatsoever from opting out of the whole lot. How can you be so sure that the line of what to opt in to was drawn in precisely the right place before 2016?
    I am a right of centre pragmatist, though I must admit that my putdowns of the lunatic Brexit apologists may well make me seem like an EU enthusiast when I never have been such. I was not in favour of joining Euro, and not in favour of "ever closer union", the latter which I think is mythological, as the French in particular have zero intention of being absorbed into a full-on union with Germany. I find British EU-phobia (as opposed to Eurosceptism) to be a pernicious and dangerously stupid ideology.
    Being part of an organisation whose explicit aims - Ever Closer Union - we are opposed to on the basis that we hope other members will share our opposition seems - well - a little trusting for my tastes.
    It is meaningless nonsense and is seen as such by many pro-Europeans. The only people who bang on about it are the rabid Euro-federalists, who are in reality a minority, and British EU-phobes.
    You need the political equivalent of the Hubble Telescope to see far enough into the future to detect a Federal Europe replacing the nation states.
    Most at the top in Brussels are ideologically committed to an EU superstate able to match the US and China and, in time, India.

    The EU as Bart says already has its own Parliament, currency, court, executive commission and President. It will soon have its own army too and be a superstate in all but name.

    It is certainly no longer just the trading block we joined the Common Market for. Even had we voted Remain in due course we would have ended up on the outer edge with non Eurozone Sweden, Denmark and Poland and Hungary while the rest moved full steam ahead to federal union.
    Impossible to predict and an odd reason to bail out now imo. But fwiw - given you seem to buy it - was that the future you were hoping for when you voted Remain then? Us on the outer edge of a federal superstate? Or do now you prefer this - ie being outside even the outer edge? Like a kind of Pluto. I'd rather be back where were, I must say. Third rock from the sun after Germany and France.
    I voted Remain as we were still outside the Eurozone, had Remain required us to join the Eurozone I would have voted Leave
  • kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Boebert definitely just scraping home as predicted earlier I see. I wonder if a close shave would lead to some self reflection.

    That seat in Washington where the former incumbent was primaried out for voting to impeach Trump looks like a Dem gain.
    Boebert's margin of victory 0.4% with 99% counted, must have come as a surprise.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,604
    Alistair said:

    Nigelb said:

    Someone else even more sore.

    Trump unloading on DeSantis over on Truth Social.
    https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1590844069118607364

    Love the "then I sent in the Feds to steal the election for Ron" bit in the middle there.
    I think he's actually lost it and is being advised not to run but damage RDS as much as possible so he can run in 2028 when he's 80.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    rcs1000 said:

    Will Schryver continues to believe that all is going swimmingly for the Russians:



    You do have to admire his consistency.

    I think he's a distant cousin of "Comical Ali"
  • kle4 said:

    I see the good folk of Nevada still get the option to vote 'None of these candidates' in their races. I remember hearing about it being legally challenged around a decade ago and obviously must have failed.

    Wiki says on a couple of occasions 'none of these candidates' has topped party primaries, with the result that the second place actual human got the nod.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/None_of_These_Candidates

    Notable impact on elections
    According to a report by then-Secretary of State Dean Heller, "None of These Candidates" has finished first on three other occasions: in a 1978 Republican congressional primary, a 1978 Republican Secretary of State primary and a 1986 Democratic Treasurer primary. Additionally, it happened again in the 2014 Democratic gubernatorial primary making it a grand total of five instances.[4]

    The "None of These Candidates" option has possibly played a spoiler effect in close races, such as in the 1998 U.S. Senate election, in which Democratic incumbent Sen. Harry Reid defeated Republican challenger John Ensign by only 428 votes, while None of These Candidates drew 8,125 votes.[5]
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,993

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    This is a classic example of the opinions are like arseholes genre.

    Stick to the betting.
    Ok, Elon, I will put JOKE at the front of such comments in future.

    (that House bet has bailed you out then, I note)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,417
    DougSeal said:

    My Wife, a newly minted US-UK dual national, is now registered to vote in both jurisdictions. I fear for the future.

    Congratulations to her, on her new citizenship.
  • kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Will Schryver continues to believe that all is going swimmingly for the Russians:



    You do have to admire his consistency.

    In the same way as admiring someone who is 'principled'?
    I think more in the way of admiring the Kamikaze pilots of WW2. Completely mad and wasting their lives on a lost cause but undeniably committed in a way most of can't even begin to imagine.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Question:

    Does Big Ron go and stump for Walker in the run-off?

    Actually, that's not the interesting question.

    The interesting question is, who will Walker accept help from?

    Will he have rallies headlined by Former President Trump, or by Governor DeSantis?
    Judging by Walker interviews on Fox pretty much any sitting GOP senator.

    Seriously, the dude is always paired up in interviews.
  • HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    Very absurd and very crass
    Yes. very crass. Actually offensive. For me, the closest comparison to the Kherson Liberation is Brexit Day, Friday 31st January, and the moment Boris won the GE in 2019, when we knew he would Ged Brexit Done

    The hideous oppressor was expelled, and the tanks of free movement and the artillery of trade regulations fled across the Channel, like the soldiers across the Dnieper, and it was like having a baby as well
    Even more absurdly crass. Only swiveleyed loons like you think the fools charter of Brexit is anything worth celebrating. "Ooo sovereinty sovereignty" we hear the brainwashed fuckwits cry. We already had our sovereignty you gullible thickheads.
    I read your post yesterday about your Euroscepticism with some interest, but it makes your stridency about Brexit seem a bit artificial. Surely you must see arguments on both sides, even if on balance you favoured Remain or thought the disadvantages outweighed any advantages from pulling out?

    If you're a William Hague-style Eurosceptic then you must think that the EU has done things and plans to do more things that we are better off steering clear of, but at the same time you are adamant that there are absolutely no benefits whatsoever from opting out of the whole lot. How can you be so sure that the line of what to opt in to was drawn in precisely the right place before 2016?
    I am a right of centre pragmatist, though I must admit that my putdowns of the lunatic Brexit apologists may well make me seem like an EU enthusiast when I never have been such. I was not in favour of joining Euro, and not in favour of "ever closer union", the latter which I think is mythological, as the French in particular have zero intention of being absorbed into a full-on union with Germany. I find British EU-phobia (as opposed to Eurosceptism) to be a pernicious and dangerously stupid ideology.
    Being part of an organisation whose explicit aims - Ever Closer Union - we are opposed to on the basis that we hope other members will share our opposition seems - well - a little trusting for my tastes.
    It is meaningless nonsense and is seen as such by many pro-Europeans. The only people who bang on about it are the rabid Euro-federalists, who are in reality a minority, and British EU-phobes.
    You need the political equivalent of the Hubble Telescope to see far enough into the future to detect a Federal Europe replacing the nation states.
    Most at the top in Brussels are ideologically committed to an EU superstate able to match the US and China and, in time, India.

    The EU as Bart says already has its own Parliament, currency, court, executive commission and President. It will soon have its own army too and be a superstate in all but name.

    It is certainly no longer just the trading block we joined the Common Market for. Even had we voted Remain in due course we would have ended up on the outer edge with non Eurozone Sweden, Denmark and Poland and Hungary while the rest moved full steam ahead to federal union.



    Fundamentally, our membership of such a bloc is dishonest.
  • kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Boebert definitely just scraping home as predicted earlier I see. I wonder if a close shave would lead to some self reflection.

    That seat in Washington where the former incumbent was primaried out for voting to impeach Trump looks like a Dem gain.
    Probably good for the Dems that Boebert gets elected so that voters are reminded regularly of the chickenbrains in the GOP ranks.
    Boebert is redundant, seeing as how Marjorie Taylor Greene (reelected with 66%) working overtime on THAT front.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2022
    Hey, how much harm could the whole fake blue tick thing do? How about 10 or so bilion dollars billion dollars.

    https://twitter.com/rafaelshimunov/status/1591133819918114816?t=q1KCyh03qvRouLithRkD3w&s=19
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678
    Liberated Kherson singing Chervona Kalyna, a song that was banned for nine months. No electricity — Russia destroyed the power lines before leaving.
    https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1591100046635929608
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    How has the country been "all but destroyed?"
    "The worst economic performance since records began'. BBC 5 O'Clock News.

    Supply chains 'Thanks to Brexit' the worst ever and Covid is NOT the major cause.
    FYI, here's a chart of UK and German #GDP, updated to include today's Q3 data for the UK.

    Since Q1 2016 (the quarter before the vote to leave the EU), the UK economy has grown by around 6.7% and the German economy by about 6.2%.

    #BrexitReality


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1591036294494576640
    Watch the Six o'clock news. We are the bottom of the G7 and the only one with deficit and if you compare the size of our economy with its pre Brexit size it has reduced significantly more than the other six. The cause is almost certainly Brexit according to Faisal Islam
    "according to Faisal Islam"
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    This is a classic example of the opinions are like arseholes genre.

    Stick to the betting.
    Ok, Elon, I will put JOKE at the front of such comments in future.

    (that House bet has bailed you out then, I note)
    I've got my losses down to £95 (they were shocking at one point).

    Will do pretty well on the House but my Senate bets have totally sunk me, and there's no way out.

    On the bright side I'm pretty happy with my Presidential bets and looking forward to playing those over the next 23 months.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,940
    Of course

    A security guard has admitted spying for Russia while working at the British Embassy in Berlin. ...
    Prosecutors said he was driven by an intense hatred for his country and angered by the flying of the Rainbow flag in support of the LGBT community.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63602000
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2022
    Ratters said:

    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.

    I'd be very cautious on the prospects for the next few months, if not longer. In the South the Russian are now digging in behind a stonking great river barrier, and it's very hard to see how the Ukrainians can dislodge them from that and cross the Dnipro. Meanwhile the Russians may simply revert to blasting the hell out of the civilian population, including Kherson itself (although there'd be a certain irony in them pulverising what they claim is part of Russia).

    In the East, the Ukrainians might have more success, but it will be very tough going and in winter there's little cover. Probably not much will change there over the winter, although Ukraine has surprised us before.

    In the spring things may develop more quickly, but I don't think anyone can really be too confident of how this is going to turn out.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,859
    Roger is a mysogynist as he supports Roman Polanksi who sodomized a 15 year old girl and dismisses it as hardly relevant

    Roger is a racist as he dismisses tunisians as not real people

    Waiting for his homophobia to surface next

    He rails against people from hartlepool but I suspect he would disgust most people in hartlepool because of his views

    What was the bible quote....remove the beam from your own eye first.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,604

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    How has the country been "all but destroyed?"
    "The worst economic performance since records began'. BBC 5 O'Clock News.

    Supply chains 'Thanks to Brexit' the worst ever and Covid is NOT the major cause.
    FYI, here's a chart of UK and German #GDP, updated to include today's Q3 data for the UK.

    Since Q1 2016 (the quarter before the vote to leave the EU), the UK economy has grown by around 6.7% and the German economy by about 6.2%.

    #BrexitReality


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1591036294494576640
    Watch the Six o'clock news. We are the bottom of the G7 and the only one with deficit and if you compare the size of our economy with its pre Brexit size it has reduced significantly more than the other six. The cause is almost certainly Brexit according to Faisal Islam
    "according to Faisal Islam"
    He definitely wasn't listening because the idea that the UK is the only G7 nation with a deficit is laughable. Only Germany has got lower national debt and a lower deficit as a proportion of GDP than we do trailing 12 months. Even that looks like it will change in the next 5 years as UK debt continues to fall as a proportion of GDP.
  • Why is Prime now shitting all over programmes I select and watch with "free ads"?

    I already pay monthly. If they continue to pull that shit I'll cancel.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,604
    Pagan2 said:

    Roger is a mysogynist as he supports Roman Polanksi who sodomized a 15 year old girl and dismisses it as hardly relevant

    Roger is a racist as he dismisses tunisians as not real people

    Waiting for his homophobia to surface next

    He rails against people from hartlepool but I suspect he would disgust most people in hartlepool because of his views

    What was the bible quote....remove the beam from your own eye first.

    He's also lauded "vibrant Italy" a lot in the past, the same Italy that has just elected a nationalist government with the leading party formed out of the ashes of the Italian fascist party. He's gone quiet about "vibrant Italy" recently though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,391

    Ratters said:

    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.

    I'd be very cautious on the prospects for the next few months, if not longer. In the South the Russian are now digging in behind a stonking great river barrier, and it's very hard to see how the Ukrainians can dislodge them from that and cross the Dnipro. Meanwhile the Russians may simply revert to blasting the hell out of the civilian population, including Kherson itself (although there'd be a certain irony in them pulverising what they claim is part of Russia).

    In the East, the Ukrainians might have more success, but it will be very tough going and in winter there's little cover. Probably not much will change there over the winter, although Ukraine has surprised us before.

    In the Spring things may develop more quickly, but I don't think anyone can really be too confident of how this is going to turn out.
    The logical next move might be to split the Russian-controlled territories in two by attacking the left bank from the north and heading for the Sea of Azov.
  • .
    Pagan2 said:

    Roger is a mysogynist as he supports Roman Polanksi who sodomized a 15 year old girl and dismisses it as hardly relevant

    Roger is a racist as he dismisses tunisians as not real people

    Waiting for his homophobia to surface next

    He rails against people from hartlepool but I suspect he would disgust most people in hartlepool because of his views

    What was the bible quote....remove the beam from your own eye first.

    Tunisians aren't just not real people for Roger, they're also dirty plague carriers in his eyes.

    Real people like Roger having to spend time in Tunisian's company will mean that he probably now has Covid.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If this war ends soon (God willing) what are relations going to be like between Russia and Ukraine?

    Hateful, I imagine. Ukrainians will HATE Russia and Russians for decades, maybe generations. So another byproduct of Putin's Crazy War has been to turn a neighbouring country with often warm, fraternal feelings towards Russia into a sworn enemy, of 40 million people, who will loathe Russia with every atom

    Genius

    Decades, generations, or maybe just a couple of years. Look at Germany, France and the low countries after the war. We humans have a remarkable capacity to get over dreadful experiences.
    Yes, indeed, but as I have argued before, it was much easier to forgive Germany because Germany was utterly vanquished, its cities laid to waste, its regime brutally toppled, its women raped by the Red Army, and its people left starving (those that didn't die in firestorms). It is easier to forgive an enemy that has been bludgeoned into total submission

    Post-war Russia will not be like that. Russia will seem largely untouched, even as Ukraine has to rebuild half of its cities and all of its infrastructure. So the hateful resentment will, I suggest, fester and ferment
    You might ask the Dutch if they forgave Germany easily and quickly.
    After the IRA started targeting British forces and families in Germany in the early 80s, the MOD advised all British families to switch their numberplates from British to German to make it more difficult for them to be identified.

    One interesting side effect of this was that after the switch, when the British drove their cars over the border into the Netherlands at the weekend, they would come back to find they had been keyed or smashed up. It never happened to their cars when they had British plates.

    The Dutch did not quickly or easily forget or forgive the Germans.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,859
    MaxPB said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger is a mysogynist as he supports Roman Polanksi who sodomized a 15 year old girl and dismisses it as hardly relevant

    Roger is a racist as he dismisses tunisians as not real people

    Waiting for his homophobia to surface next

    He rails against people from hartlepool but I suspect he would disgust most people in hartlepool because of his views

    What was the bible quote....remove the beam from your own eye first.

    He's also lauded "vibrant Italy" a lot in the past, the same Italy that has just elected a nationalist government with the leading party formed out of the ashes of the Italian fascist party. He's gone quiet about "vibrant Italy" recently though.
    Roger is everything he claims to despise but can't see it because he classes himself as left wing. The rest of us classify him as pond scum
  • As part of their Tribute to Veterans on Veterans Day, one el cheapo US broadcast TV channel now featuring "The Wackiest Ship in the Army" to be followed by "The Longest Day".
  • kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Boebert definitely just scraping home as predicted earlier I see. I wonder if a close shave would lead to some self reflection.

    That seat in Washington where the former incumbent was primaried out for voting to impeach Trump looks like a Dem gain.
    Probably good for the Dems that Boebert gets elected so that voters are reminded regularly of the chickenbrains in the GOP ranks.
    Boebert is redundant, seeing as how Marjorie Taylor Greene (reelected with 66%) working overtime on THAT front.
    You can never have too many chickenbrains in the opposition ranks, SSI.
  • Ratters said:

    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.

    I'd be very cautious on the prospects for the next few months, if not longer. In the South the Russian are now digging in behind a stonking great river barrier, and it's very hard to see how the Ukrainians can dislodge them from that and cross the Dnipro. Meanwhile the Russians may simply revert to blasting the hell out of the civilian population, including Kherson itself (although there'd be a certain irony in them pulverising what they claim is part of Russia).

    In the East, the Ukrainians might have more success, but it will be very tough going and in winter there's little cover. Probably not much will change there over the winter, although Ukraine has surprised us before.

    In the Spring things may develop more quickly, but I don't think anyone can really be too confident of how this is going to turn out.
    The logical next move might be to split the Russian-controlled territories in two by attacking the left bank from the north and heading for the Sea of Azov.
    Yes, that would be smart if they can do it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,604

    Why is Prime now shitting all over programmes I select and watch with "free ads"?

    I already pay monthly. If they continue to pull that shit I'll cancel.

    Because, like most of us who have prime, the convenience of next day delivery is too much to give up. Although with the price rise it's not brilliant value any more and now that I've finished my Bond run through there's also not a lot left I want to watch on it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    This is a classic example of the opinions are like arseholes genre.

    Stick to the betting.
    Ok, Elon, I will put JOKE at the front of such comments in future.

    (that House bet has bailed you out then, I note)
    I've got my losses down to £95 (they were shocking at one point).

    Will do pretty well on the House but my Senate bets have totally sunk me, and there's no way out...
    ‘They completely f--ked up’: How the GOP lost its grip on the Senate majority
    Democrats are on the doorstep of control, despite a series of obstacles. And they couldn’t have done it without Republicans blowing winnable races.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/11/republicans-senate-majority-00066009

    This wasn’t entirely unpredictable before the vote.
    (Though I’ll admit I was pretty relieved with the way a couple of the races turned out.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,981
    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    How has the country been "all but destroyed?"
    "The worst economic performance since records began'. BBC 5 O'Clock News.

    Supply chains 'Thanks to Brexit' the worst ever and Covid is NOT the major cause.
    FYI, here's a chart of UK and German #GDP, updated to include today's Q3 data for the UK.

    Since Q1 2016 (the quarter before the vote to leave the EU), the UK economy has grown by around 6.7% and the German economy by about 6.2%.

    #BrexitReality


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1591036294494576640
    Watch the Six o'clock news. We are the bottom of the G7 and the only one with deficit and if you compare the size of our economy with its pre Brexit size it has reduced significantly more than the other six. The cause is almost certainly Brexit according to Faisal Islam
    "according to Faisal Islam"
    He definitely wasn't listening because the idea that the UK is the only G7 nation with a deficit is laughable. Only Germany has got lower national debt and a lower deficit as a proportion of GDP than we do trailing 12 months. Even that looks like it will change in the next 5 years as UK debt continues to fall as a proportion of GDP.
    Canada beats us too, don't they?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,859
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    How has the country been "all but destroyed?"
    "The worst economic performance since records began'. BBC 5 O'Clock News.

    Supply chains 'Thanks to Brexit' the worst ever and Covid is NOT the major cause.
    FYI, here's a chart of UK and German #GDP, updated to include today's Q3 data for the UK.

    Since Q1 2016 (the quarter before the vote to leave the EU), the UK economy has grown by around 6.7% and the German economy by about 6.2%.

    #BrexitReality


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1591036294494576640
    Watch the Six o'clock news. We are the bottom of the G7 and the only one with deficit and if you compare the size of our economy with its pre Brexit size it has reduced significantly more than the other six. The cause is almost certainly Brexit according to Faisal Islam
    "according to Faisal Islam"
    He definitely wasn't listening because the idea that the UK is the only G7 nation with a deficit is laughable. Only Germany has got lower national debt and a lower deficit as a proportion of GDP than we do trailing 12 months. Even that looks like it will change in the next 5 years as UK debt continues to fall as a proportion of GDP.
    Canada beats us too, don't they?
    Canada gave us justin bieber though a huge blot on a countries history
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,604
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    How has the country been "all but destroyed?"
    "The worst economic performance since records began'. BBC 5 O'Clock News.

    Supply chains 'Thanks to Brexit' the worst ever and Covid is NOT the major cause.
    FYI, here's a chart of UK and German #GDP, updated to include today's Q3 data for the UK.

    Since Q1 2016 (the quarter before the vote to leave the EU), the UK economy has grown by around 6.7% and the German economy by about 6.2%.

    #BrexitReality


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1591036294494576640
    Watch the Six o'clock news. We are the bottom of the G7 and the only one with deficit and if you compare the size of our economy with its pre Brexit size it has reduced significantly more than the other six. The cause is almost certainly Brexit according to Faisal Islam
    "according to Faisal Islam"
    He definitely wasn't listening because the idea that the UK is the only G7 nation with a deficit is laughable. Only Germany has got lower national debt and a lower deficit as a proportion of GDP than we do trailing 12 months. Even that looks like it will change in the next 5 years as UK debt continues to fall as a proportion of GDP.
    Canada beats us too, don't they?
    Deficit maybe, don't think so on debt. Alas, my computer is now off until Monday so we'll never know.
  • Ratters said:

    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.

    I'd be very cautious on the prospects for the next few months, if not longer. In the South the Russian are now digging in behind a stonking great river barrier, and it's very hard to see how the Ukrainians can dislodge them from that and cross the Dnipro. Meanwhile the Russians may simply revert to blasting the hell out of the civilian population, including Kherson itself (although there'd be a certain irony in them pulverising what they claim is part of Russia).

    In the East, the Ukrainians might have more success, but it will be very tough going and in winter there's little cover. Probably not much will change there over the winter, although Ukraine has surprised us before.

    In the spring things may develop more quickly, but I don't think anyone can really be too confident of how this is going to turn out.

    Ratters said:

    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.

    I'd be very cautious on the prospects for the next few months, if not longer. In the South the Russian are now digging in behind a stonking great river barrier, and it's very hard to see how the Ukrainians can dislodge them from that and cross the Dnipro. Meanwhile the Russians may simply revert to blasting the hell out of the civilian population, including Kherson itself (although there'd be a certain irony in them pulverising what they claim is part of Russia).

    In the East, the Ukrainians might have more success, but it will be very tough going and in winter there's little cover. Probably not much will change there over the winter, although Ukraine has surprised us before.

    In the spring things may develop more quickly, but I don't think anyone can really be too confident of how this is going to turn out.
    Wouldn't the smart move for the Ukrainians be to just sit still and let the Russians perish through their own incompetence?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,981
    MaxPB said:

    Why is Prime now shitting all over programmes I select and watch with "free ads"?

    I already pay monthly. If they continue to pull that shit I'll cancel.

    Because, like most of us who have prime, the convenience of next day delivery is too much to give up. Although with the price rise it's not brilliant value any more and now that I've finished my Bond run through there's also not a lot left I want to watch on it.
    The Prime video selection is much better in the US.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678

    Ratters said:

    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.

    I'd be very cautious on the prospects for the next few months, if not longer. In the South the Russian are now digging in behind a stonking great river barrier, and it's very hard to see how the Ukrainians can dislodge them from that and cross the Dnipro. Meanwhile the Russians may simply revert to blasting the hell out of the civilian population, including Kherson itself (although there'd be a certain irony in them pulverising what they claim is part of Russia).

    In the East, the Ukrainians might have more success, but it will be very tough going and in winter there's little cover. Probably not much will change there over the winter, although Ukraine has surprised us before.

    In the spring things may develop more quickly, but I don't think anyone can really be too confident of how this is going to turn out.

    Ratters said:

    I wonder where Ukraine's next breakthrough attack will be? Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson west of the Dnipro river are now secure, which had been the focus for so long.

    The length of the frontline seems to offer a few different options once the Ukraine army has regrouped from its latest victory.

    I'd be very cautious on the prospects for the next few months, if not longer. In the South the Russian are now digging in behind a stonking great river barrier, and it's very hard to see how the Ukrainians can dislodge them from that and cross the Dnipro...
    They won’t bother,
    If they continue the offensive, they’ll come down from the north.
  • Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger is a mysogynist as he supports Roman Polanksi who sodomized a 15 year old girl and dismisses it as hardly relevant

    Roger is a racist as he dismisses tunisians as not real people

    Waiting for his homophobia to surface next

    He rails against people from hartlepool but I suspect he would disgust most people in hartlepool because of his views

    What was the bible quote....remove the beam from your own eye first.

    He's also lauded "vibrant Italy" a lot in the past, the same Italy that has just elected a nationalist government with the leading party formed out of the ashes of the Italian fascist party. He's gone quiet about "vibrant Italy" recently though.
    Roger is everything he claims to despise but can't see it because he classes himself as left wing. The rest of us classify him as pond scum
    Bit strong.

    He's just a prejudiced left-wing snob.

    When you filter everything through that he's sort of harmless and amusing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,272

    Alistair said:

    Turns out not giving Putin what he wanted lead to the liberation of Kherson and not nuclear holocaust.

    I wonder how long we are back to "must given Putin what he wants".

    The current story seems to be that he is getting what he wants. If this does turn into a full blown peace deal and includes Crimea remaining Russian-controlled, I look forward to the fuming denunciations of Biden that will no doubt ensue from PB's 'no quarter' armchair warrior contingent.
    On what planet is Putin "getting what he wants"?

    He would have to be into extreme S&M with no safe words to see the past six months as anything he could ever want.

    I don't mean what he wanted out of the invasion, that would be ridiculous. I mean what he wants now.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,859

    Pagan2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger is a mysogynist as he supports Roman Polanksi who sodomized a 15 year old girl and dismisses it as hardly relevant

    Roger is a racist as he dismisses tunisians as not real people

    Waiting for his homophobia to surface next

    He rails against people from hartlepool but I suspect he would disgust most people in hartlepool because of his views

    What was the bible quote....remove the beam from your own eye first.

    He's also lauded "vibrant Italy" a lot in the past, the same Italy that has just elected a nationalist government with the leading party formed out of the ashes of the Italian fascist party. He's gone quiet about "vibrant Italy" recently though.
    Roger is everything he claims to despise but can't see it because he classes himself as left wing. The rest of us classify him as pond scum
    Bit strong.

    He's just a prejudiced left-wing snob.

    When you filter everything through that he's sort of harmless and amusing.
    Would you excuse anyone else for blatant mysogyny and racism? I don't know anyone else on this board that is such a blatant arsehole
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,841
    edited November 2022

    HYUFD said:

    [snip]

    Even had we voted Remain in due course we would have ended up on the outer edge with non Eurozone Sweden, Denmark and Poland and Hungary while the rest moved full steam ahead to federal union.

    Yes, exactly (except fuller union of the core won't be anything like at 'full steam ahead', more like a snail's pace with long periods of stasis, if it ever happens at all). We'd have had the best of all possible positions: all the advantages of full EU membership, without the excessive bits. It is such an extraordinary tragedy that we, of our own volition, threw it away. As I predicted at the time, we'll spend at least a decade, perhaps longer, painfully trying to claw back some of the lost ground, but we'll never get back to such a favourable position as we had.
    And all of it easily avoided if the arrogant clueless europhiles had only given the British people a vote on earlier moments of integration - as they so often promised, yet failed to do

    This constant fraudulence led inexorably to the fatal rupture of total Brexit. Consider this
  • Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    This is a classic example of the opinions are like arseholes genre.

    Stick to the betting.
    Ok, Elon, I will put JOKE at the front of such comments in future.

    (that House bet has bailed you out then, I note)
    I've got my losses down to £95 (they were shocking at one point).

    Will do pretty well on the House but my Senate bets have totally sunk me, and there's no way out...
    ‘They completely f--ked up’: How the GOP lost its grip on the Senate majority
    Democrats are on the doorstep of control, despite a series of obstacles. And they couldn’t have done it without Republicans blowing winnable races.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/11/republicans-senate-majority-00066009

    This wasn’t entirely unpredictable before the vote.
    (Though I’ll admit I was pretty relieved with the way a couple of the races turned out.)
    I'm very annoyed at myself.

    This only happened because I got arrogant and flipped my positions as the very earliest results came in (which mean nothing in America).

    I'd actually laid Republican Majority in the Senate to start with, and had a good position.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    This is a classic example of the opinions are like arseholes genre.

    Stick to the betting.
    Ok, Elon, I will put JOKE at the front of such comments in future.

    (that House bet has bailed you out then, I note)
    I've got my losses down to £95 (they were shocking at one point).

    Will do pretty well on the House but my Senate bets have totally sunk me, and there's no way out...
    ‘They completely f--ked up’: How the GOP lost its grip on the Senate majority
    Democrats are on the doorstep of control, despite a series of obstacles. And they couldn’t have done it without Republicans blowing winnable races.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/11/republicans-senate-majority-00066009

    This wasn’t entirely unpredictable before the vote.
    (Though I’ll admit I was pretty relieved with the way a couple of the races turned out.)
    I'm very annoyed at myself.

    This only happened because I got arrogant and flipped my positions as the very earliest results came in (which mean nothing in America).

    I'd actually laid Republican Majority in the Senate to start with, and had a good position.
    Don’t get me started on the daft stuff I’ve done.
    We’ve all been there.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,829
    Evening all :)

    Just one or two random uncoordinated musings from me.

    I thought the best news of the week was the slackening in US inflation. The markets loved it suggesting inflation rates would be peaking at or not far above current levels. I'm loath to suggest a brief period of interest rate normality will be followed by a return to the post-GFC financial methodone but perhaps we will find ourselves in a period of low inflation and low interest rates (though presumably the new normal on oil is $90 per barrel).

    As for "identity", I've only had limited contact with Americans but my impression is they see themselves as Americans first and Texans/Hoosiers/Californians second which is the reverse of the situation in Europe where historical regional identity means so much. I suspect we'll never see a United States of Europe but a very loose European Confederation - maybe.

    Interesting to hear people rant (mainly) about the M25 protesters. As someone on here pointed out, if we do nothing because we think nothing we do matters, it won't but it makes pressuring China and India and others more difficult. As to the rest of the world, the word "reparations" carries so much historical baggage as to be useless - there's an argument for utilising our money and technology to ensure the developing world moves to prosperity with the minimum of environmental degradation. I fear a lot of damage has already been done and we will be living the rest of our lives (and those of our children and grandchildren) with the impact of what we have already done.

    There's a wider question around those who take action which proves disruptive. Sometimes disruptive equals effective if it either keeps the dispute in the public eye or forces negotiation and/or compromise. Not always and the temptation is for Governments to proscribe disruptive industrial action or protest but rendering such protests mute or ineffective won't make the sense of grievance go away.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,841

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    If this war ends soon (God willing) what are relations going to be like between Russia and Ukraine?

    Hateful, I imagine. Ukrainians will HATE Russia and Russians for decades, maybe generations. So another byproduct of Putin's Crazy War has been to turn a neighbouring country with often warm, fraternal feelings towards Russia into a sworn enemy, of 40 million people, who will loathe Russia with every atom

    Genius

    Decades, generations, or maybe just a couple of years. Look at Germany, France and the low countries after the war. We humans have a remarkable capacity to get over dreadful experiences.
    Yes, indeed, but as I have argued before, it was much easier to forgive Germany because Germany was utterly vanquished, its cities laid to waste, its regime brutally toppled, its women raped by the Red Army, and its people left starving (those that didn't die in firestorms). It is easier to forgive an enemy that has been bludgeoned into total submission

    Post-war Russia will not be like that. Russia will seem largely untouched, even as Ukraine has to rebuild half of its cities and all of its infrastructure. So the hateful resentment will, I suggest, fester and ferment
    You might ask the Dutch if they forgave Germany easily and quickly.
    After the IRA started targeting British forces and families in Germany in the early 80s, the MOD advised all British families to switch their numberplates from British to German to make it more difficult for them to be identified.

    One interesting side effect of this was that after the switch, when the British drove their cars over the border into the Netherlands at the weekend, they would come back to find they had been keyed or smashed up. It never happened to their cars when they had British plates.

    The Dutch did not quickly or easily forget or forgive the Germans.
    That used to happen to German cars in the Czech Republic. Not sure if it still does
  • .

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger is a mysogynist as he supports Roman Polanksi who sodomized a 15 year old girl and dismisses it as hardly relevant

    Roger is a racist as he dismisses tunisians as not real people

    Waiting for his homophobia to surface next

    He rails against people from hartlepool but I suspect he would disgust most people in hartlepool because of his views

    What was the bible quote....remove the beam from your own eye first.

    Tunisians aren't just not real people for Roger, they're also dirty plague carriers in his eyes.

    Real people like Roger having to spend time in Tunisian's company will mean that he probably now has Covid.
    Still, he might have been able to pick out his next low-paid cleaner / gardener / maid from those in the queue
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Conclusion: Sean Patrick Maloney is a worse strategist than Robbie Mook.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,859

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger is a mysogynist as he supports Roman Polanksi who sodomized a 15 year old girl and dismisses it as hardly relevant

    Roger is a racist as he dismisses tunisians as not real people

    Waiting for his homophobia to surface next

    He rails against people from hartlepool but I suspect he would disgust most people in hartlepool because of his views

    What was the bible quote....remove the beam from your own eye first.

    Tunisians aren't just not real people for Roger, they're also dirty plague carriers in his eyes.

    Real people like Roger having to spend time in Tunisian's company will mean that he probably now has Covid.
    Still, he might have been able to pick out his next low-paid cleaner / gardener / maid from those in the queue
    and then whinge about british people being workshy because they wont live 8 to a room hot sharing beds so they can make ends meet.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,981
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    How has the country been "all but destroyed?"
    "The worst economic performance since records began'. BBC 5 O'Clock News.

    Supply chains 'Thanks to Brexit' the worst ever and Covid is NOT the major cause.
    FYI, here's a chart of UK and German #GDP, updated to include today's Q3 data for the UK.

    Since Q1 2016 (the quarter before the vote to leave the EU), the UK economy has grown by around 6.7% and the German economy by about 6.2%.

    #BrexitReality


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1591036294494576640
    Watch the Six o'clock news. We are the bottom of the G7 and the only one with deficit and if you compare the size of our economy with its pre Brexit size it has reduced significantly more than the other six. The cause is almost certainly Brexit according to Faisal Islam
    "according to Faisal Islam"
    He definitely wasn't listening because the idea that the UK is the only G7 nation with a deficit is laughable. Only Germany has got lower national debt and a lower deficit as a proportion of GDP than we do trailing 12 months. Even that looks like it will change in the next 5 years as UK debt continues to fall as a proportion of GDP.
    Canada beats us too, don't they?
    Deficit maybe, don't think so on debt. Alas, my computer is now off until Monday so we'll never know.
    https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/canada/government-debt--of-nominal-gdp#:~:text=Key information about Canada Government,Mar 1962 to Mar 2022.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,658
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    [snip]

    Even had we voted Remain in due course we would have ended up on the outer edge with non Eurozone Sweden, Denmark and Poland and Hungary while the rest moved full steam ahead to federal union.

    Yes, exactly (except fuller union of the core won't be anything like at 'full steam ahead', more like a snail's pace with long periods of stasis, if it ever happens at all). We'd have had the best of all possible positions: all the advantages of full EU membership, without the excessive bits. It is such an extraordinary tragedy that we, of our own volition, threw it away. As I predicted at the time, we'll spend at least a decade, perhaps longer, painfully trying to claw back some of the lost ground, but we'll never get back to such a favourable position as we had.
    And all of it easily avoided if the arrogant clueless europhiles had only given the British people a vote on earlier moments of integration - as they so often promised, yet failed to do

    This constant fraudulence led inexorably to the fatal rupture of total Brexit. Consider this
    Yes, the EU as it was circa 2005 almost everybody could have lived with*. A halfway house, fine. Had Cameron tried that little bit harder to achieve such a thing, and to sell it he would have carried the day. Sadly, he thought all he had to was reject the Eurosceptics. Inasmuch as he thought about Euroscepticism, he thought it was confined to a fringe of his own party and an even smaller fringe of the far left. He thought that the country thought like Witney. But given Lisbon we had no way to trust that we wouldn't be dragged in further. Blair wanted to be at the heart of Europe, remember, and wanted to join the Euro. Why would we trust our political classes on Europe? So in a forced choice of wholly in or wholly out, out wins.

    *Not me. I was a leaver long before it was unfashionable. But even I was a soft Brexiteer.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,678
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    [snip]

    Even had we voted Remain in due course we would have ended up on the outer edge with non Eurozone Sweden, Denmark and Poland and Hungary while the rest moved full steam ahead to federal union.

    Yes, exactly (except fuller union of the core won't be anything like at 'full steam ahead', more like a snail's pace with long periods of stasis, if it ever happens at all). We'd have had the best of all possible positions: all the advantages of full EU membership, without the excessive bits. It is such an extraordinary tragedy that we, of our own volition, threw it away. As I predicted at the time, we'll spend at least a decade, perhaps longer, painfully trying to claw back some of the lost ground, but we'll never get back to such a favourable position as we had.
    And all of it easily avoided if the arrogant clueless europhiles had only given the British people a vote on earlier moments of integration - as they so often promised, yet failed to do

    This constant fraudulence led inexorably to the fatal rupture…
    I prefer to call it a futile rapture.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,165
    Alistair said:

    Hey, how much harm could the whole fake blue tick thing do? How about 10 or so bilion dollars billion dollars.

    https://twitter.com/rafaelshimunov/status/1591133819918114816?t=q1KCyh03qvRouLithRkD3w&s=19

    Investors are worried Americans might get cheaper insulin?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    MaxPB said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger is a mysogynist as he supports Roman Polanksi who sodomized a 15 year old girl and dismisses it as hardly relevant

    Roger is a racist as he dismisses tunisians as not real people

    Waiting for his homophobia to surface next

    He rails against people from hartlepool but I suspect he would disgust most people in hartlepool because of his views

    What was the bible quote....remove the beam from your own eye first.

    He's also lauded "vibrant Italy" a lot in the past, the same Italy that has just elected a nationalist government with the leading party formed out of the ashes of the Italian fascist party. He's gone quiet about "vibrant Italy" recently though.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63596773
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,658

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Whether a deal has been done with Putin, or not, those scenes in Kherson are spellbinding. What is it about Liberation videos? They have the same power whether they come from France in 1944, or Ukraine in 2022

    They must touch something primal and Freudian inside us. The beaten animal yearning to be free, the glorious overthrowing of the oppressor

    Yes. And it puts much of what we worry about into perspective. 2nd May 1997 is perhaps our nearest equivalent in recent memory - but even to make such a comparison is absurd and slightly crass.
    Very absurd and very crass
    Yes. very crass. Actually offensive. For me, the closest comparison to the Kherson Liberation is Brexit Day, Friday 31st January, and the moment Boris won the GE in 2019, when we knew he would Ged Brexit Done

    The hideous oppressor was expelled, and the tanks of free movement and the artillery of trade regulations fled across the Channel, like the soldiers across the Dnieper, and it was like having a baby as well
    Even more absurdly crass. Only swiveleyed loons like you think the fools charter of Brexit is anything worth celebrating. "Ooo sovereinty sovereignty" we hear the brainwashed fuckwits cry. We already had our sovereignty you gullible thickheads.
    I read your post yesterday about your Euroscepticism with some interest, but it makes your stridency about Brexit seem a bit artificial. Surely you must see arguments on both sides, even if on balance you favoured Remain or thought the disadvantages outweighed any advantages from pulling out?

    If you're a William Hague-style Eurosceptic then you must think that the EU has done things and plans to do more things that we are better off steering clear of, but at the same time you are adamant that there are absolutely no benefits whatsoever from opting out of the whole lot. How can you be so sure that the line of what to opt in to was drawn in precisely the right place before 2016?
    I am a right of centre pragmatist, though I must admit that my putdowns of the lunatic Brexit apologists may well make me seem like an EU enthusiast when I never have been such. I was not in favour of joining Euro, and not in favour of "ever closer union", the latter which I think is mythological, as the French in particular have zero intention of being absorbed into a full-on union with Germany. I find British EU-phobia (as opposed to Eurosceptism) to be a pernicious and dangerously stupid ideology.
    Being part of an organisation whose explicit aims - Ever Closer Union - we are opposed to on the basis that we hope other members will share our opposition seems - well - a little trusting for my tastes.
    It is meaningless nonsense and is seen as such by many pro-Europeans. The only people who bang on about it are the rabid Euro-federalists, who are in reality a minority, and British EU-phobes.
    And yet the clear movement for the first 16 years of the century was ever closer union. When something is both an explicit aim of the organisation and is visibly happening, you can forgive people for thinking Ever Closer Union is a thing.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kamski said:

    Alistair said:

    Hey, how much harm could the whole fake blue tick thing do? How about 10 or so bilion dollars billion dollars.

    https://twitter.com/rafaelshimunov/status/1591133819918114816?t=q1KCyh03qvRouLithRkD3w&s=19

    Investors are worried Americans might get cheaper insulin?
    I suspect trading bots using sentiment analysis picked up a lot of negative sentiment.
  • MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    How has the country been "all but destroyed?"
    "The worst economic performance since records began'. BBC 5 O'Clock News.

    Supply chains 'Thanks to Brexit' the worst ever and Covid is NOT the major cause.
    FYI, here's a chart of UK and German #GDP, updated to include today's Q3 data for the UK.

    Since Q1 2016 (the quarter before the vote to leave the EU), the UK economy has grown by around 6.7% and the German economy by about 6.2%.

    #BrexitReality


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1591036294494576640
    Watch the Six o'clock news. We are the bottom of the G7 and the only one with deficit and if you compare the size of our economy with its pre Brexit size it has reduced significantly more than the other six. The cause is almost certainly Brexit according to Faisal Islam
    "according to Faisal Islam"
    He definitely wasn't listening because the idea that the UK is the only G7 nation with a deficit is laughable. Only Germany has got lower national debt and a lower deficit as a proportion of GDP than we do trailing 12 months. Even that looks like it will change in the next 5 years as UK debt continues to fall as a proportion of GDP.
    Canada beats us too, don't they?
    Deficit maybe, don't think so on debt. Alas, my computer is now off until Monday so we'll never know.
    Both Roger and (if he is quoting him correctly) Islam are talking rubbish.

    G7 debt as % GDP End 2021 according to the IMF

    Germany 69.3%
    UK 95.1% (Latest figure for September 2022 is 98%)
    Canada 112.8%
    France 113%
    USA 137%
    Italy 151%
    Japan 266%

    G7 Deficits end 2021 as % GDP again from IMF

    Germany 3.7%
    Canada 4.7%
    UK 6%
    France 6.5%
    Italy 7.2%
    Japan 12.6%
    USA 16.7%


  • For PBers interested in seeing different aspects of ongoing ballot processing for 2022 general, check out

    https://kingcounty.gov/depts/elections/about-us/security-and-accountability/watch-us-in-action.aspx
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,981

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Interesting but more interesting is how decisions by Cameron May Johnson and Truss have done more damage to this country than any consecutive group of Prime Ministers in history. They have all but destroyed it. In every case they put personal aggrandisement above the good of the country. Cameron was slightly less culpable and Johnson slightly more but history will judge them equally. The sooner the country is shot of the whole Party -which the surely will-the sooner the reconstruction can start.

    Item 1. rejoining the EU. On our knees if necessary

    How has the country been "all but destroyed?"
    "The worst economic performance since records began'. BBC 5 O'Clock News.

    Supply chains 'Thanks to Brexit' the worst ever and Covid is NOT the major cause.
    FYI, here's a chart of UK and German #GDP, updated to include today's Q3 data for the UK.

    Since Q1 2016 (the quarter before the vote to leave the EU), the UK economy has grown by around 6.7% and the German economy by about 6.2%.

    #BrexitReality


    https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1591036294494576640
    Watch the Six o'clock news. We are the bottom of the G7 and the only one with deficit and if you compare the size of our economy with its pre Brexit size it has reduced significantly more than the other six. The cause is almost certainly Brexit according to Faisal Islam
    "according to Faisal Islam"
    He definitely wasn't listening because the idea that the UK is the only G7 nation with a deficit is laughable. Only Germany has got lower national debt and a lower deficit as a proportion of GDP than we do trailing 12 months. Even that looks like it will change in the next 5 years as UK debt continues to fall as a proportion of GDP.
    Canada beats us too, don't they?
    Deficit maybe, don't think so on debt. Alas, my computer is now off until Monday so we'll never know.
    Both Roger and (if he is quoting him correctly) Islam are talking rubbish.

    G7 debt as % GDP End 2021 according to the IMF

    Germany 69.3%
    UK 95.1% (Latest figure for September 2022 is 98%)
    Canada 112.8%
    France 113%
    USA 137%
    Italy 151%
    Japan 266%

    G7 Deficits end 2021 as % GDP again from IMF

    Germany 3.7%
    Canada 4.7%
    UK 6%
    France 6.5%
    Italy 7.2%
    Japan 12.6%
    USA 16.7%


    The IMF numbers for Canada include local government debt, but do not for everywhere else. Why, I don't know.

    And their US numbers are gross: if you include the numbers the US government owes to itself (i.e. a US government entity owns US government bonds), then the debt-to-GDP numbers come down considerably (although they are still well above the UK).
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,739
    It's always seemed to me strange that so many large organisations became so reliant on Twitter for their communications, despite having no control over it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,417
    So who backed Kevin Magnussen for pole position? :D
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,391
    Roger said:


    MaxPB said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Roger is a mysogynist as he supports Roman Polanksi who sodomized a 15 year old girl and dismisses it as hardly relevant

    Roger is a racist as he dismisses tunisians as not real people

    Waiting for his homophobia to surface next

    He rails against people from hartlepool but I suspect he would disgust most people in hartlepool because of his views

    What was the bible quote....remove the beam from your own eye first.

    He's also lauded "vibrant Italy" a lot in the past, the same Italy that has just elected a nationalist government with the leading party formed out of the ashes of the Italian fascist party. He's gone quiet about "vibrant Italy" recently though.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63596773
    Getting basic facts wrong while disparagingly referring to an "official rationale" that we are invited to distrust is not good journalism.

    Faisal says that, "While the EU is more physically dependent on actual supplies of Russian gas, the UK is more dependent on imported gas full stop," but this isn't true. The EU's gas import dependency ratio is over 80% while the UK's is around 50%.
This discussion has been closed.