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Will the Tories ever get over Kwarteng’s budget? – politicalbetting.com

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  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    I don't really think this is correct.

    No doubt it was a good hustings line in the leadership contest Sunak lost to a Lettuce.

    But that's preaching to political, Johnsonite Tories. For the electorate at large, Corbyn is a man who was never PM and now isn't even a Labour MP - an historical oddity and nothing more.
    I would be surprised if the electorate at large realised that Corbyn wasn't a Labour MP any more.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
    "Properly" = no guide.

    Darwinism.
    Unsurprisingly, you aren’t allowed anywhere near the Ice Caves without an official guide. The glaciers are treacherous with crevasses, and the caves beautiful yet perilous

    But I imagine our very own Ian “Bear Grylls” B2 would strike out alone across the icy wastes at night. With his Chihuahua
  • Andy_JS said:

    Who won PMQs today? Going to watch it later.

    Wheat farmers.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    rcs1000 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I must confess I got Liz Truss completely wrong. I shared @Big_G_NorthWales view (correct me if I am wrong Big G). I thought there was a 90% chance she was going to be a big fat damp squib, poleaxed by her inability to present and coming up with nothing new. I also thought there was a 10% chance she was going to surprise us on the upside coming out with new popular ideas starting with the energy crisis.

    I never thought she would come out with lots of radical stuff that would sink her immediately.

    Well she spent two months of campaign clearly promising exactly what she did, and still believes in.

    Our own Big G gave PM Liz support all the way up to the Monday following the budget, largely on the basis thank goodness shes not Boris, no one could be worse than Boris…
    I know what she said, but I didn't expect her to do it (with knobs on).
    SKS mindset
    You are weirdly, creepily obsessed with Sir Keir.

    Do you ever post about anything else?
    When BJO was a kid, a centrist took his dinner money.
    No mate since 1979 the Liberal elite (Centrists) have taken poor peoples money and given it to the richest in Society.

    The first time that was challenged the Liberal Elites in both Parties and the Centrists at Lab HQ literally stole money from marginal winnable seats and used it to protect the Liberal Elite enablers in safe PLP Centrist seats.

    Determined to defeat the alternative real change that Jezza offered

    The centrist took the dinner money but was stolen back by Marcus Rashford and Ian Byrne who Centrists now want rid of
    Callaghan: We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists, and in so far as it ever did exist, it only worked on each occasion since the war by injecting a bigger dose of inflation into the economy, followed by a higher level of unemployment as the next step.

    Don't you think you should put him with the liberal centrists too?

    Its about redistribution of Wealth, who owns our Assets, being on the side of the many not the wealthy few.


    No Party since when i got the vote in 1977 has offered what was on offer in 2017
  • https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/nov/02/channel-4s-40-best-shows-ranked

    Wow, Channel 4 really has made a lot of great TV. I'm surprised how many of these I've watched. Number 1 is controversial but fair, probably.

    They certainly have had some great shows in the past. Not sure I agree with all that list, especially not number 1 (it wasn't even original, the Dutch came up with it), but there were some good ones there, but what's interesting skimming that list is how their halcyon days seem to have been the 90s to early 2000s.

    The BBC's fans love to play on its past, with shows like Monty Python etc, but its best days were the 60s-80s it seems, but even Channel 4 is very dated now.

    One of the most modern creations on the list is 2013's Gogglebox. Only 3 of the 40 shows began after 2013.

    Broadcast TV channels aren't coping/competing with modern streaming services and that goes for C4 just as much as the Beeb.
    That's probably fair although I think it probably partly reflects the age of the person compiling the list and those reading it. I don't watch much TV now and not much on C4. A lot of the stuff on the streaming services is crap too - I've liked historical documentary the Crown, Inventing Anna and Succession, not that much else. C4's Derry Girls is as good as anything else on TV in recent years. The BBC has had some good stuff including the US show Mrs America - not sure if that was a coproduction or if they just bought it. We're re-watching the Buddha of Suburbia on iPlayer, that has aged very well.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That’s not actually what he was saying in the video. But Labour had artfully cut the video to mislead.

    He was saying that all deprived areas need support - including deprived rural areas in Kent - not just deprived urban areas
    I asked before (to Turbotubbs, who made a similar comment) whether there's a version available with that missing context - I'd still like to see it. I know Sunak has defended the video with that claimed rationale since it came out.

    I'm also ignorant on the actual policy (and change) here. Did the funding really discriminate between urban and rural areas of deprivation? Or was it, if existing, an unintended consequence of scale, e.g. allocation at council level, say, rather than based on ward or LSOA?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Rishi Sunak appointed a home secretary who's broken the ministerial code, lost control of a refugee centre, and put our national security at risk.

    In Suella Braverman's own words, the Tories have 'broken' the asylum system.

    It's time for a Labour government.
    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1587805363130494982/video/1
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That wasn't un-levelling though was it? That was accepting that rural locations can also have pockets of extreme poverty too.
    Indeed they can. Much of Lincolnshire, as an example that's not just 'pockets'. If that was the context for the comments he made, then I'd be very interested to see it.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oTxRGvuP9Nk

    This is how he explained it when challenged by Sky. Of course this was after the event - but it strikes me as to cogent and fluent an answer to be a scrambled political BS response, so I’m inclined to think it’s true. (Although I agree with what he is saying in this interview so may be hearing what I want to hear)

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    Two words of advice for fellow PBers regarding Twitter:

    (1) Never discuss Tesla. I foolishly made a couple of comments because a friend of mine is a bear on the stock, and now I have hundred of notifications that are replies of replies of replies.

    (2) Don't follow Tulsi Gabbard. She was batshit crazy when she ran for the Democratic nomination in 2020, and she's doubly batshit crazy now.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Andy_JS said:

    Who won PMQs today? Going to watch it later.

    I suspect you'll call it for Sunak.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    It sets a new benchmark for government implosion. The shortest stint as PM ever. Entirely self-inflicted. It is unprecedented. So it's a mistake to try to predict what will happen by looking at precedents.

    My best guess is that this will do more lasting damage to the Tories than Black Wednesday - but I think it's worth noting that a lot of the damage in the 90s accumulated as the Major government lurched from scandal to scandal.

    However, it is possible that the very speed with which this crisis unfolded will ameliorate done of the damage. The public may associate the crisis Truss and Kwarteng personally, more than the Tories in general. By the new year many people might feel the short Truss Ministry was a nightmare that they've woken up from, and are we sure it even happened?

    I wouldn't say this was likely, but it is possible.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Dark Elon has done nothing for my freedom of speech on Twitter. I'm on another ban for telling Billy the Fysh that I sincerely hope that *** **** ***** ***.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Well that's nice.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?
    English numpties who think they know all about more about ice than Icelanders tend to get the very real travel experience of coming home in a coffin.
    Notd to mention volcanoes and jökulhlaups.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Just the beginning. Rough old year ahead
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Andy_JS said:

    Who won PMQs today? Going to watch it later.

    I think the cross-party consensus is "my side".
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That wasn't un-levelling though was it? That was accepting that rural locations can also have pockets of extreme poverty too.
    Indeed they can. Much of Lincolnshire, as an example that's not just 'pockets'. If that was the context for the comments he made, then I'd be very interested to see it.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oTxRGvuP9Nk

    This is how he explained it when challenged by Sky. Of course this was after the event - but it strikes me as to cogent and fluent an answer to be a scrambled political BS response, so I’m inclined to think it’s true. (Although I agree with what he is saying in this interview so may be hearing what I want to hear)

    Thanks. Yes, I've seen that - and the point is valid. It's either what he meant to start with or a very good cover for it. Would love to see a longer clip from the original though. It's not unknown for those in very affluent areas to complain about how they are subsidising less affluent areas, afterall (I live in an affluent area of constituency with many deprived areas and I hear plenty of it myself).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    IanB2 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
    "Properly" = no guide.

    Darwinism.
    I’d expect that most of us know that much of the challenge, and joy, of travel is finding yourself in an unfamiliar environment and working out how to cope with all the challenges that throws at you, and enjoy where you are. Looking for someone at the airport holding up a piece of paper with your name on it, and then following them about for a week, is a pale imitation.
    You’re an idiot. You simply can’t go to half these places without professional guides

    1. It’s Icelandic law
    2. You could easily die

    All you are doing is proving that you actually have not travelled much, if you disbelieve this
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited November 2022
    Ishmael_Z said:
    I see it's a UK legislative measure involved - Comms Act 2003. Hadn't realised it wasn't devolved. So I'm confused by the whining about the Scottish Government etc.

    Edit: oh - is this *the* Toby Young?

    'Toby Young, general secretary of the Free Speech Union, told STV News: “What Joseph Kelly said was undoubtedly offensive, but we don’t believe anyone should be prosecuted for being offensive.

    “This out-of-date law is about to be repealed in England and Wales and if this appeal is successful, I cannot see it remaining on the statute books in Scotland for much longer.”'
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Scott_xP said:
    And rightly so. Where’s free speech if you get rid of the right wing think tanks but keep the left wing ones?

    But. The actual question was should think tanks have charitable status as IEA does.

    Sunak did not answer.

    It’s a bit of a grey area, charitable status comes with benefits.

    https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/voices/david-ainsworth-should-these-think-tanks-lose-charity-status.html

    So if you are not even an honest think tank, just a lobby group fronting up as one, you’d love charitable status, but should you have it? So you see how grey an answer this is?

    https://www.thirdsector.co.uk/think-tank-not-charity-fossil-fuel-lobby-group-celebrities-activists-tell-regulator/governance/article/1787244
  • Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That’s not actually what he was saying in the video. But Labour had artfully cut the video to mislead.

    He was saying that all deprived areas need support - including deprived rural areas in Kent - not just deprived urban areas
    The problem was not him rightly pointing to pockets of deprived rural areas. The probem was that he claimed he had taken money from genuinely shonky areas in the north to give to pockets of deprived rural areas.

    Nobody is denying that rural places can't hide poverty. But you can't divert money from places already promised the cash. Or in practice what it's meant is that money has gone to posh Tory areas to sort the small bit that isn't quite as posh as the rest whilst the scum area gets little or nothing.

    Stockton on Tees seeing levelling up money spent in Yarm as a prime example. Yes, there are bits of Yarm not as nice as the rest. But relatively these areas are fine - certainly a lot better than chunks of town centre or Newtown wards.
  • MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Pin down the drop lights in the end of each car. Piston effect forces cool air into the passenger cabin.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited November 2022

    Scott_xP said:
    And rightly so. Where’s free speech if you get rid of the right wing think tanks but keep the left wing ones?

    But. The actual question was should think tanks have charitable status as IEA does.

    Sunak did not answer.

    It’s a bit of a grey area, charitable status comes with benefits.

    https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/voices/david-ainsworth-should-these-think-tanks-lose-charity-status.html

    So if you are not even an honest think tank, just a lobby group fronting up as one, you’d love charitable status, but should you have it? So you see how grey an answer this is?

    https://www.thirdsector.co.uk/think-tank-not-charity-fossil-fuel-lobby-group-celebrities-activists-tell-regulator/governance/article/1787244
    Charities aren't supposed to be political. Amnesty, indeed, isn't and perhaps never was one. So why treat the lobby groups for the establishment* differently?

    Edit: both left and right wing, I should have said.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Two words of advice for fellow PBers regarding Twitter:

    (1) Never discuss Tesla. I foolishly made a couple of comments because a friend of mine is a bear on the stock, and now I have hundred of notifications that are replies of replies of replies.

    (2) Don't follow Tulsi Gabbard. She was batshit crazy when she ran for the Democratic nomination in 2020, and she's doubly batshit crazy now.

    Not sure about Twitter, but as I have a Tesla YouTube channel I am being careful what I say...
  • It is amazing to see how much more confident Starmer is at PMQs now. He really has stepped it up a gear.

    I actually think Rishi is fine presentationally at PMQs. the problem is he has precious little going right at the moment to really work with.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    It is London who gives a F***
  • Andy_JS said:

    Who won PMQs today? Going to watch it later.

    Didn't see it either, Andy, but am interested that you should ask here on this forum.

    It's what I do if I want an impartial and balanced view. No good going to the mainstream media, and although not everyone here is as objective as you and I (ahem) you tend to know who calls it straight and who doesn't, so your chances of getting a fair view are good.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    For the avoidance of doubt, if any PB-er fancies the Vatnajokull Ice Caves (and they are wonderful) follow my advice, not that of @IanB2. You must have a guide



    “You always go with a certified guide!

    The ice caves are only accessible during winter months, from November and usually throughout March, depending on the weather. The beautiful ice caves are very dangerous if you are not accompanied by a trained guide that knows the glacier from inside out, you should not go there by yourself. The caves should never be entered without a glacier guide and proper safety gear. Before going into the ice cave with a tour operator, you are provided with a safety helmet and crampons for walking on the ice.”


    https://visitvatnajokull.is/ice-caves-in-vatnajokull/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    It is London who gives a F***
    They complain about getting free heating on the trains, like they complain about 2.3mm of snow.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited November 2022
    Norway

    A fortnight ago I warned as follows, regarding the story that Russian passport holders had been detained by the Norwegian authorities for allegedly surveilling Norwegian energy installations using drones.

    That was while everybody else was groupthinkily assuming that if WW3 cracked off it would be after Putin launched a battlefield nuke against Ukrainian forces.
    The Norway story is f*cking scary.
    [snip]
    WATCH NORWAY. THIS STORY WILL DEVELOP.
    And now...

    "Norway is putting its military on a raised level of alert, moving more personnel on to operational duties and enhancing the role of a rapid mobilisation force [...]
    'This is the most severe security situation in several decades,' [prime minister] Jonas Gahr Støre told a news conference on Monday.
    "

    And guess what... both Jens Stoltenberg, NATO secretary general, who is Norwegian, and Jonas Gahr Støre, prime minister of Norway, are kookhouse followers of Rudolf Steiner (which is actually quite common among the upper Oslo bourgeoisie, but that doesn't make it any less relevant).

    NO-RU is of course by far the oldest NATO-Russian land border.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
    Very interesting... though Max is complaining about the Victoria Line, which is entirely underground, so it shouldn't be as badly affected as the Central Line.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
    Yes, I'd seen something similar already, surely the answer is pumping cold air from outside into the tunnels overnight when trains aren't running. They had to get the trains down there in the first place, so use the same entrances and exits to pump in cold air for 4-6h per day. The alternative seems like it will require the Victoria and Central lines to just close until they do it. The Victoria line genuinely felt unsafe to travel on today.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
    "Properly" = no guide.

    Darwinism.
    I’d expect that most of us know that much of the challenge, and joy, of travel is finding yourself in an unfamiliar environment and working out how to cope with all the challenges that throws at you, and enjoy where you are. Looking for someone at the airport holding up a piece of paper with your name on it, and then following them about for a week, is a pale imitation.
    You’re an idiot. You simply can’t go to half these places without professional guides

    1. It’s Icelandic law
    2. You could easily die

    All you are doing is proving that you actually have not travelled much, if you disbelieve this
    It's Icelandic law? When I went to Iceland only a few years ago it wasn't law to have a guide.

    I agree you can die, but that depends upon weather conditions. Again when I was there it was very mild and driving wasn't an issue at all and you could rent a car.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    It is London who gives a F***
    They complain about getting free heating on the trains, like they complain about 2.3mm of snow.
    Never F***ing happy
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    ...

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    Its a big win? When the PM has a cabinet full of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson picks? The same Boris Johnson he stood shoulder to shoulder with?
    Do you dispute the spectre of Corbyn remains a massive problem for Labour? Sunak wouldn't use the attack every week if he didn't believe it hits the target.
    It doesn't strike me as effective at all. After his change of mind on COP 2 they might start wondering why he doesn't put his own house in order before wasting time tilting at windmills


  • @rcs1000

    I see the Kremlin has sent us another troll.

    Please can we keep this one? Pretty please?? They are such fun, and it is pleasing to think of Vlad wasting his roubles on the funding of these pathetic but amusing creatures.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161

    Well that's nice.
    The PMI data looks pretty miserable everywhere:

    https://www.pmi.spglobal.com/Public/Release/PressReleases
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    edited November 2022
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
    Very interesting... though Max is complaining about the Victoria Line, which is entirely underground, so it shouldn't be as badly affected as the Central Line.
    I think it makes it worse, that heat generated by people and trains has got nowhere to go, it just accumulates now I'm pretty sure it was over 30 degrees on the train. Like it's been bad, last summer and autumn were bad but this is way, way worse than I've ever experienced it. One lady looked like she was going to pass out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go ...

    Peculiar obviously doesn't bother them, at least.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
    "Properly" = no guide.

    Darwinism.
    I’d expect that most of us know that much of the challenge, and joy, of travel is finding yourself in an unfamiliar environment and working out how to cope with all the challenges that throws at you, and enjoy where you are. Looking for someone at the airport holding up a piece of paper with your name on it, and then following them about for a week, is a pale imitation.
    You’re an idiot. You simply can’t go to half these places without professional guides

    1. It’s Icelandic law
    2. You could easily die

    All you are doing is proving that you actually have not travelled much, if you disbelieve this
    It's Icelandic law? When I went to Iceland only a few years ago it wasn't law to have a guide.

    I agree you can die, but that depends upon weather conditions. Again when I was there it was very mild and driving wasn't an issue at all and you could rent a car.
    I’m sure Leon is having a great time. Just don’t kid the rest of us that he’s doing anything other than ersatz travel for the benefit of his readers.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Two words of advice for fellow PBers regarding Twitter:

    (1) Never discuss Tesla. I foolishly made a couple of comments because a friend of mine is a bear on the stock, and now I have hundred of notifications that are replies of replies of replies.

    (2) Don't follow Tulsi Gabbard. She was batshit crazy when she ran for the Democratic nomination in 2020, and she's doubly batshit crazy now.

    Today I muted the word Twitter on Twitter, which seems to have helped since half my normally excellent feed was banging on about blue checks or something .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
    "Properly" = no guide.

    Darwinism.
    I’d expect that most of us know that much of the challenge, and joy, of travel is finding yourself in an unfamiliar environment and working out how to cope with all the challenges that throws at you, and enjoy where you are. Looking for someone at the airport holding up a piece of paper with your name on it, and then following them about for a week, is a pale imitation.
    You’re an idiot. You simply can’t go to half these places without professional guides

    1. It’s Icelandic law
    2. You could easily die

    All you are doing is proving that you actually have not travelled much, if you disbelieve this
    It's Icelandic law? When I went to Iceland only a few years ago it wasn't law to have a guide.

    I agree you can die, but that depends upon weather conditions. Again when I was there it was very mild and driving wasn't an issue at all and you could rent a car.
    I’m talking about the ice caves. Of course you can wander the streets of Reykjavik or drive the ring road as much as you like
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
    Very interesting... though Max is complaining about the Victoria Line, which is entirely underground, so it shouldn't be as badly affected as the Central Line.
    I think it makes it worse, that heat generated by people and trains has got nowhere to go, it just accumulates now I'm pretty sure it was over 30 degrees on the train. Like it's been bad, last summer and autumn were bad but this is way, way worse than I've ever experienced it. One lady looked like she was going to pass out.
    The video Robert linked to suggests that it's worse to have trains running outside as they absorb heat from the Sun and deposit it in the tunnels.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Leon said:

    For the avoidance of doubt, if any PB-er fancies the Vatnajokull Ice Caves (and they are wonderful) follow my advice, not that of @IanB2....

    I'd have thought that you, of all folk, would realise when you're being wound up.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Do British voters approve or disapprove of the Government's performance on the economy? (30 October)

    Disapprove: 55% (-14)
    Approve: 20% (+6)
    Net Approval: -35% (+20)

    Changes +/- 23 October https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1587810563249373187/photo/1
  • It is amazing to see how much more confident Starmer is at PMQs now. He really has stepped it up a gear.

    I actually think Rishi is fine presentationally at PMQs. the problem is he has precious little going right at the moment to really work with.

    Starmer won it quite easily today and while Rishi is good presentational the migrant crisis and Braverman are difficult topics for him at present

    He needs results on this problematic issue
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That’s not actually what he was saying in the video. But Labour had artfully cut the video to mislead.

    He was saying that all deprived areas need support - including deprived rural areas in Kent - not just deprived urban areas
    I asked before (to Turbotubbs, who made a similar comment) whether there's a version available with that missing context - I'd still like to see it. I know Sunak has defended the video with that claimed rationale since it came out.

    I'm also ignorant on the actual policy (and change) here. Did the funding really discriminate between urban and rural areas of deprivation? Or was it, if existing, an unintended consequence of scale, e.g. allocation at council level, say, rather than based on ward or LSOA?
    I posted a post-event Sky interview when he was asked about it

    IIRC Blair deliberately changed the formulae to benefit urban/labour areas. But that’s just memory - I’m sure he justified it somehow and the impact was purely coincidental or something

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    rcs1000 said:

    Two words of advice for fellow PBers regarding Twitter:

    (1) Never discuss Tesla. I foolishly made a couple of comments because a friend of mine is a bear on the stock, and now I have hundred of notifications that are replies of replies of replies.

    (2) Don't follow Tulsi Gabbard. She was batshit crazy when she ran for the Democratic nomination in 2020, and she's doubly batshit crazy now.

    It's going to be a mud wrestling match between her and Lake to get Trump's VP slot if he runs.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    rcs1000 said:

    Two words of advice for fellow PBers regarding Twitter:

    (1) Never discuss Tesla. I foolishly made a couple of comments because a friend of mine is a bear on the stock, and now I have hundred of notifications that are replies of replies of replies.

    (2) Don't follow Tulsi Gabbard. She was batshit crazy when she ran for the Democratic nomination in 2020, and she's doubly batshit crazy now.

    (2) but she is cute ☺️

  • tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
    Very interesting... though Max is complaining about the Victoria Line, which is entirely underground, so it shouldn't be as badly affected as the Central Line.
    I think the undegroundness is part of the problem; there's nowhere for the heat to go. So the clay around the Central Line tunnels is about 10C hotter now than it was a century ago. All that energy from friction braking had to go somewhere.

    Hooray for the Elizabeth Line, that's what I say.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
    Very interesting... though Max is complaining about the Victoria Line, which is entirely underground, so it shouldn't be as badly affected as the Central Line.
    I think it makes it worse, that heat generated by people and trains has got nowhere to go, it just accumulates now I'm pretty sure it was over 30 degrees on the train. Like it's been bad, last summer and autumn were bad but this is way, way worse than I've ever experienced it. One lady looked like she was going to pass out.
    We are freezing our bollox off, rain pissing down , no sympathy whatsoever.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
    "Properly" = no guide.

    Darwinism.
    I’d expect that most of us know that much of the challenge, and joy, of travel is finding yourself in an unfamiliar environment and working out how to cope with all the challenges that throws at you, and enjoy where you are. Looking for someone at the airport holding up a piece of paper with your name on it, and then following them about for a week, is a pale imitation.
    You’re an idiot. You simply can’t go to half these places without professional guides

    1. It’s Icelandic law
    2. You could easily die

    All you are doing is proving that you actually have not travelled much, if you disbelieve this
    It's Icelandic law? When I went to Iceland only a few years ago it wasn't law to have a guide.

    I agree you can die, but that depends upon weather conditions. Again when I was there it was very mild and driving wasn't an issue at all and you could rent a car.
    You rented a car to go over a glacier and down into underground caverns as per the pictures?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That’s not actually what he was saying in the video. But Labour had artfully cut the video to mislead.

    He was saying that all deprived areas need support - including deprived rural areas in Kent - not just deprived urban areas
    I asked before (to Turbotubbs, who made a similar comment) whether there's a version available with that missing context - I'd still like to see it. I know Sunak has defended the video with that claimed rationale since it came out.

    I'm also ignorant on the actual policy (and change) here. Did the funding really discriminate between urban and rural areas of deprivation? Or was it, if existing, an unintended consequence of scale, e.g. allocation at council level, say, rather than based on ward or LSOA?
    I posted a post-event Sky interview when he was asked about it

    IIRC Blair deliberately changed the formulae to benefit urban/labour areas. But that’s just memory - I’m sure he justified it somehow and the impact was purely coincidental or something

    This confused me, as I thought you posted that video in reply to my comment that you just replied to above (and I replied thanking you for posting the video, in response to my request).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    References to Corbyn aren't references to Jeremy Corbyn as such. They are short hand for the muscle memory of Labour to tax and spend - something which does still resonate with those over 50.

    You will keep hearing "Corbyn" for years to come. Basically, until Labour changes its broken business model.
    As opposed to the Hunt/Sunak business model of tax and not spend?

    I don't see attacks on Corbyn as a metaphor for Labour's current business programme. If it were Sunak wouldn't have referenced Hezbollah. They are attacks on Starmer's association with a reprehensible and evil former leader of the Labour Party.
    I really don't see any downsides to the Tories keep mentioning Corbyn. He was a large part of why they got an 80-seat majority. Fear of his form of open borders, anti-NATO, tax and borrow until the pips squeak socialism still scares people. Labour still hasn't put enough clear blue water between them and him.

    And it's not as if the Tories have a huge amount else to sell!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995

    @rcs1000

    I see the Kremlin has sent us another troll.

    Please can we keep this one? Pretty please?? They are such fun, and it is pleasing to think of Vlad wasting his roubles on the funding of these pathetic but amusing creatures.

    This one is a little more sophisticated than the last few. Trying to express things from the Western point of view, although the mask has slipped a couple of times recently.

    Has anyone asked him what his view is on Covid vaccinations yet?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Liz Truss effigy is the Guy to be burnt at this year's Edenbridge Bonfire Night

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63482510
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That’s not actually what he was saying in the video. But Labour had artfully cut the video to mislead.

    He was saying that all deprived areas need support - including deprived rural areas in Kent - not just deprived urban areas
    The problem was not him rightly pointing to pockets of deprived rural areas. The probem was that he claimed he had taken money from genuinely shonky areas in the north to give to pockets of deprived rural areas.

    Nobody is denying that rural places can't hide poverty. But you can't divert money from places already promised the cash. Or in practice what it's meant is that money has gone to posh Tory areas to sort the small bit that isn't quite as posh as the rest whilst the scum area gets little or nothing.

    Stockton on Tees seeing levelling up money spent in Yarm as a prime example. Yes, there are bits of Yarm not as nice as the rest. But relatively these areas are fine - certainly a lot better than chunks of town centre or Newtown wards.
    Westminster has some of the greatest areas of deprivation in London as measured by FSM for example

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    It is amazing to see how much more confident Starmer is at PMQs now. He really has stepped it up a gear.

    I actually think Rishi is fine presentationally at PMQs. the problem is he has precious little going right at the moment to really work with.

    Starmer won it quite easily today and while Rishi is good presentational the migrant crisis and Braverman are difficult topics for him at present

    He needs results on this problematic issue
    I agree. I thought score draw or narrow Starmer win last week. Not so good from Sunak this week. Corbyn bashing is a very tired (and irrelevant) old line.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That’s not actually what he was saying in the video. But Labour had artfully cut the video to mislead.

    He was saying that all deprived areas need support - including deprived rural areas in Kent - not just deprived urban areas
    The problem was not him rightly pointing to pockets of deprived rural areas. The probem was that he claimed he had taken money from genuinely shonky areas in the north to give to pockets of deprived rural areas.

    Nobody is denying that rural places can't hide poverty. But you can't divert money from places already promised the cash. Or in practice what it's meant is that money has gone to posh Tory areas to sort the small bit that isn't quite as posh as the rest whilst the scum area gets little or nothing.

    Stockton on Tees seeing levelling up money spent in Yarm as a prime example. Yes, there are bits of Yarm not as nice as the rest. But relatively these areas are fine - certainly a lot better than chunks of town centre or Newtown wards.
    Why do the Tories still have a minister for levelling up? Bottom line up front, Boris Johnson’s glib election promise “we will level up” is undeliverable bollocks.

    Once you fathom out the impossible to fathom out “what exactly does it mean? Level up the north to the level of the south? But bits of the south are just as run down as bits of the north and vice versa? And switch to how to do it anyway to delivery something at least, even though you don’t really understand what it means, you realise it’s not about funnelling existing money from this to that, you will just end up hated and stuck in the 20s in the polling, it has to be new money, given to deserving places, fairly, and so that Tiverton in Blue Wall can’t get upset they are just as deserving and being cheated.

    After all that, are you now levelling up? Of course not, because it is just pretend the ancient mismatch in scale and wealth between London and the secondary cities their regions can ever be levelled, it always was empty unachievable Johnsonian electioneering bollocks.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Scott_xP said:

    Do British voters approve or disapprove of the Government's performance on the economy? (30 October)

    Disapprove: 55% (-14)
    Approve: 20% (+6)
    Net Approval: -35% (+20)

    Changes +/- 23 October https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1587810563249373187/photo/1

    Quite a move in a week. Although moving from "hell no!" to sucking-air-through-teeth "Hmmmmmm...." rather than any real approval.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    rcs1000 said:

    Two words of advice for fellow PBers regarding Twitter:

    (1) Never discuss Tesla. I foolishly made a couple of comments because a friend of mine is a bear on the stock, and now I have hundred of notifications that are replies of replies of replies.

    (2) Don't follow Tulsi Gabbard. She was batshit crazy when she ran for the Democratic nomination in 2020, and she's doubly batshit crazy now.

    You forgot 3) If inclined to go on twitter go do something more useful instead like make chainmail condoms
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
    Very interesting... though Max is complaining about the Victoria Line, which is entirely underground, so it shouldn't be as badly affected as the Central Line.
    I think the undegroundness is part of the problem; there's nowhere for the heat to go. So the clay around the Central Line tunnels is about 10C hotter now than it was a century ago. All that energy from friction braking had to go somewhere.

    Hooray for the Elizabeth Line, that's what I say.

    Saving a fortune in heating for the properties directly* overhead, though :wink:

    *well, some way overhead - they probably need to get the geothermal power people in to maximise their benefits!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    TimS said:

    @rcs1000

    I see the Kremlin has sent us another troll.

    Please can we keep this one? Pretty please?? They are such fun, and it is pleasing to think of Vlad wasting his roubles on the funding of these pathetic but amusing creatures.

    This one is a little more sophisticated than the last few. Trying to express things from the Western point of view, although the mask has slipped a couple of times recently.

    Has anyone asked him what his view is on Covid vaccinations yet?
    Have a heart.
    You only do that when you want them booted.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    WillG said:

    It was an absolute shit show of a budget, worse than the ERM, because this was clearly self inflicted as a lone move by the Truss government, whereas ERM was a mistake supported by the whole political elite.

    After Brexit, we saw tremendous wage growth in lower income professions, which generated a lot of goodwill towards Johnson before he screwed it up with partygate. Then Truss undid that wage increase with the currency devaluation, in order to give a tax cut for the rich.

    “Then Truss undid that wage increase with the currency devaluation”

    What currency devaluation?
    It somewhat misses the point on another level, too. The inflation (and BOE failure) that followed the wage growth led to the interest rate rises that are now being mooned at....
    Inflation was caused by an external commodity price shock, not wage growth.

    The inflation problem would be worse for working people if they weren't getting pay rises. Which is why we have some people here still bemoaning they can't get the staff they want for minimum wage anymore.
    Generally the same people who go on about a living wage and how people in full time work shouldnt need to rely on welfare/food banks.
    Actually it strikes me that they are exactly the opposite sorts of people holding such opinions.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    China doing the Russia thing.

    MAGA porn, hate for Trump: China-based accounts stoke division
    A fake China-based account called MAGA ‘Hot Babe’ was among nearly 2,000 that sought to influence America’s midterms and were removed by Twitter
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/11/01/china-midterms-twitter-networks/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    It is London who gives a F***
    They complain about getting free heating on the trains, like they complain about 2.3mm of snow.
    Never F***ing happy
    But enough of your status reports, malcy!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    For the avoidance of doubt, if any PB-er fancies the Vatnajokull Ice Caves (and they are wonderful) follow my advice, not that of @IanB2....

    I'd have thought that you, of all folk, would realise when you're being wound up.
    If he keeps typing away on his phone like this, he’s going to lose sight of the guy with the umbrella.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,994
    edited November 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    And rightly so. Where’s free speech if you get rid of the right wing think tanks but keep the left wing ones?

    But. The actual question was should think tanks have charitable status as IEA does.

    Sunak did not answer.

    It’s a bit of a grey area, charitable status comes with benefits.

    https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/voices/david-ainsworth-should-these-think-tanks-lose-charity-status.html

    So if you are not even an honest think tank, just a lobby group fronting up as one, you’d love charitable status, but should you have it? So you see how grey an answer this is?

    https://www.thirdsector.co.uk/think-tank-not-charity-fossil-fuel-lobby-group-celebrities-activists-tell-regulator/governance/article/1787244
    Charities aren't supposed to be political. Amnesty, indeed, isn't and perhaps never was one. So why treat the lobby groups for the establishment* differently?

    Edit: both left and right wing, I should have said.
    Not quite. Charities must have a charitable purpose and aren't supposed to be political outside their own purpose.

    If a political activity supports their purpose and is in the best interests of the charitable aim of the charity, then that activity is permitted.

    Amnesty does have a UK charitable trust. Amnesty UK is a charity and is permitted to oppose the death penalty, which is political, because that meets their purpose, which is charitable.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    Yeah right, we're meant to believe a nation that can barely agree to mobilise some peasants and is unable to stop the Turks from breaking their grain embargo is willing to commit nuclear suicide?

    Pull the other one.

    Not sure “pull the other one” is the optimum retort at this juncture
    What happened to the invasion from Belarus?
    Yokes suggested it is still on just two days ago.
    There’s still exercises going on in Belarus, and the suggestion is that an invasion of Ukraine could take place. Personally I can’t see it, the Russian conscripts are lacking training, morale and equipment - but the threat of it, is keeping thousands of Ukranian soldiers occupied on the other side of the border.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    And now *another* headache for Suella Braverman, as the bar standards board looks into a “dishonest statement to promote her career” as she tried to break into politics. Full story - and something else the regulator might want to have a look at - in the brand new Eye, out today.
    https://twitter.com/PrivateEyeNews/status/1587772749153542148


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,558
    "Suella Braverman speaks for ordinary people – and that’s why Leftist elites detest her
    The Home Secretary is right about the migrant crisis, but that makes her a target for those who want to maintain the lie
    Allison Pearson" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2022/11/02/suella-braverman-speaks-ordinary-people-why-leftist-elites/
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Good morning

    Strange times indeed

    Greta Thunberg to boycott COP27 due to human right abuses

    Rishi Sunak to attend COP27

    Sunak has ended up with the worst of both worlds politically.

    He said he wasn't going. giving the impression he didn't much care about environmental issues. He then u-turned giving an excuse that had little credibility making him look weak/indecisive. He then decided to go giving the impression that he's just paying it lip-service.to the whole thing.

    Don't get me wrong I think we have well passed the tipping point on climate issues, too little, too late and therefore his attendance is irrelevant. I am looking at it simply from the political angle. Two weeks in and I am coming to the conclusion that your boy hasn't got much political nous.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That’s not actually what he was saying in the video. But Labour had artfully cut the video to mislead.

    He was saying that all deprived areas need support - including deprived rural areas in Kent - not just deprived urban areas
    I asked before (to Turbotubbs, who made a similar comment) whether there's a version available with that missing context - I'd still like to see it. I know Sunak has defended the video with that claimed rationale since it came out.

    I'm also ignorant on the actual policy (and change) here. Did the funding really discriminate between urban and rural areas of deprivation? Or was it, if existing, an unintended consequence of scale, e.g. allocation at council level, say, rather than based on ward or LSOA?
    I posted a post-event Sky interview when he was asked about it

    IIRC Blair deliberately changed the formulae to benefit urban/labour areas. But that’s just memory - I’m sure he justified it somehow and the impact was purely coincidental or something

    This confused me, as I thought you posted that video in reply to my comment that you just replied to above (and I replied thanking you for posting the video, in response to my request).
    I work through threads sequentially…
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
    "Properly" = no guide.

    Darwinism.
    I’d expect that most of us know that much of the challenge, and joy, of travel is finding yourself in an unfamiliar environment and working out how to cope with all the challenges that throws at you, and enjoy where you are. Looking for someone at the airport holding up a piece of paper with your name on it, and then following them about for a week, is a pale imitation.
    You’re an idiot. You simply can’t go to half these places without professional guides

    1. It’s Icelandic law
    2. You could easily die

    All you are doing is proving that you actually have not travelled much, if you disbelieve this
    It's Icelandic law? When I went to Iceland only a few years ago it wasn't law to have a guide.

    I agree you can die, but that depends upon weather conditions. Again when I was there it was very mild and driving wasn't an issue at all and you could rent a car.
    I’m talking about the ice caves. Of course you can wander the streets of Reykjavik or drive the ring road as much as you like
    Not what you said. You said 'You simply can’t go to half these places without professional guides'. Practically everything you have posted you can go to without a guide. I know because I have been to them. Even the only one you said needs a guide is a recommendation because it is dangerous not to, not because it is the law (it might be, but I doubt it). The same is true for all sorts of stuff all over the world. I wouldn't go on an unpisted glacier without a guide for instance, but it isn't illegal to do so in most countries. I couldn't go around the race track last week without a test beforehand, but it wasn't the law.

    We made a mistake when going to Iceland. I normally do not book organised stuff and prefer to discover them ourselves, however Iceland was a different trip for us so did go along with organised stuff and regret doing so. We would have got more in by not doing so because of wasted time between trips. You seem to be cramming a lot in (of course). I assume you have back to back stuff organised which is hard to coordinate for the bog standard tourist as the trips are so long and not coordinated.

    FYI I recommend the Cod War patrol boat. Not as impressive as all the other stuff you will be seeing but a good bit of history to fill a spare hour.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    As Sunak agrees to go to COP27

    % who are currently very/fairly worried about climate change and its effects

    All Britons: 67%
    Con voters: 55%
    Labour voters: 84%

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1587744947519819777?s=20&t=PMEGNwE0d5gI2AwdzPPNsg
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
    Very interesting... though Max is complaining about the Victoria Line, which is entirely underground, so it shouldn't be as badly affected as the Central Line.
    I think it makes it worse, that heat generated by people and trains has got nowhere to go, it just accumulates now I'm pretty sure it was over 30 degrees on the train. Like it's been bad, last summer and autumn were bad but this is way, way worse than I've ever experienced it. One lady looked like she was going to pass out.
    The video Robert linked to suggests that it's worse to have trains running outside as they absorb heat from the Sun and deposit it in the tunnels.
    Yeah, I think that was probably true until we got those days over 36 degrees, the air got into the underground and then they haven't managed to get it cooled down again, plus the everyday heating it's just become a disaster. I used to get the Victoria Line every weekday to Oxford Circus for 4 years, it was never, ever this bad.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    DJ41 said:

    Norway

    A fortnight ago I warned as follows, regarding the story that Russian passport holders had been detained by the Norwegian authorities for allegedly surveilling Norwegian energy installations using drones.

    That was while everybody else was groupthinkily assuming that if WW3 cracked off it would be after Putin launched a battlefield nuke against Ukrainian forces.

    The Norway story is f*cking scary.
    [snip]
    WATCH NORWAY. THIS STORY WILL DEVELOP.
    And now...

    "Norway is putting its military on a raised level of alert, moving more personnel on to operational duties and enhancing the role of a rapid mobilisation force [...]
    'This is the most severe security situation in several decades,' [prime minister] Jonas Gahr Støre told a news conference on Monday.
    "

    And guess what... both Jens Stoltenberg, NATO secretary general, who is Norwegian, and Jonas Gahr Støre, prime minister of Norway, are kookhouse followers of Rudolf Steiner (which is actually quite common among the upper Oslo bourgeoisie, but that doesn't make it any less relevant).

    NO-RU is of course by far the oldest NATO-Russian land border.

    What is the relevance of Steiner?

    (Though I find that he rather splendidly wrote

    The Russian becomes ill or actually suffers a death if he desires to be political. This may seem strange, yet a Russian person has a constitution which creates a disposition towards disease, towards death, with intensive political involvement. The Russian Folk Soul has absolutely no affinity with that quality in the English and American Folk Soul which creates a political capacity.)

    And is Russia really going to invade Norway rather than just prat about cutting undersea cables?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,558
    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    I was using it about 3 weeks ago and it was definitely hotter than the sauna at my local health club.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Quite the statistic


    “One of every 180 Albanians are currently awaiting a UK asylum decision….”

    https://twitter.com/frasernelson/status/1587786452573847553?s=46&t=LTLtF7M8R5zmcXR3VsApVg
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Pagan2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    WillG said:

    It was an absolute shit show of a budget, worse than the ERM, because this was clearly self inflicted as a lone move by the Truss government, whereas ERM was a mistake supported by the whole political elite.

    After Brexit, we saw tremendous wage growth in lower income professions, which generated a lot of goodwill towards Johnson before he screwed it up with partygate. Then Truss undid that wage increase with the currency devaluation, in order to give a tax cut for the rich.

    “Then Truss undid that wage increase with the currency devaluation”

    What currency devaluation?
    It somewhat misses the point on another level, too. The inflation (and BOE failure) that followed the wage growth led to the interest rate rises that are now being mooned at....
    Inflation was caused by an external commodity price shock, not wage growth.

    The inflation problem would be worse for working people if they weren't getting pay rises. Which is why we have some people here still bemoaning they can't get the staff they want for minimum wage anymore.
    Generally the same people who go on about a living wage and how people in full time work shouldnt need to rely on welfare/food banks.
    Actually it strikes me that they are exactly the opposite sorts of people holding such opinions.
    There are many on the left who are going on about letting more immigrants in because of staffing issues. We have seen low paid workers actually raising their pay above minimum wage now the bottomless bag of cheap labour has been shut down.

    Now is it just me or thinks workers having payrises because managers can't just shrug and say well tough you aren't getting a payrise because there are plenty of people available to do your job cheaper is about the only way these people are ever going to see pay rises. (Yes right wing people say the same but they arent usually the people going on about a living wage).

    Sorry but the only way to raise wages and not make minimum wage a maxium wage for the low paid is to make demand exceed supply
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Suella Braverman speaks for ordinary people – and that’s why Leftist elites detest her
    The Home Secretary is right about the migrant crisis, but that makes her a target for those who want to maintain the lie
    Allison Pearson" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2022/11/02/suella-braverman-speaks-ordinary-people-why-leftist-elites/

    "Leftist elites" being people who have had no control over the immigration system for 12 years?
  • Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That’s not actually what he was saying in the video. But Labour had artfully cut the video to mislead.

    He was saying that all deprived areas need support - including deprived rural areas in Kent - not just deprived urban areas
    The problem was not him rightly pointing to pockets of deprived rural areas. The probem was that he claimed he had taken money from genuinely shonky areas in the north to give to pockets of deprived rural areas.

    Nobody is denying that rural places can't hide poverty. But you can't divert money from places already promised the cash. Or in practice what it's meant is that money has gone to posh Tory areas to sort the small bit that isn't quite as posh as the rest whilst the scum area gets little or nothing.

    Stockton on Tees seeing levelling up money spent in Yarm as a prime example. Yes, there are bits of Yarm not as nice as the rest. But relatively these areas are fine - certainly a lot better than chunks of town centre or Newtown wards.
    Why do the Tories still have a minister for levelling up? Bottom line up front, Boris Johnson’s glib election promise “we will level up” is undeliverable bollocks.

    Once you fathom out the impossible to fathom out “what exactly does it mean? Level up the north to the level of the south? But bits of the south are just as run down as bits of the north and vice versa? And switch to how to do it anyway to delivery something at least, even though you don’t really understand what it means, you realise it’s not about funnelling existing money from this to that, you will just end up hated and stuck in the 20s in the polling, it has to be new money, given to deserving places, fairly, and so that Tiverton in Blue Wall can’t get upset they are just as deserving and being cheated.

    After all that, are you now levelling up? Of course not, because it is just pretend the ancient mismatch in scale and wealth between London and the secondary cities their regions can ever be levelled, it always was empty unachievable Johnsonian electioneering bollocks.
    Why? Because:
    (a) Red Wall voters have noticed they are still relatively / actually poor
    (b) Brexit promised them resources and riches
    (c) Tories promised them definitely resources and riches
    (d) They won't take no for an answer

    Either this government produces a rabbit out of the hat or the Tory 2019 first timers depart.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
    Very interesting... though Max is complaining about the Victoria Line, which is entirely underground, so it shouldn't be as badly affected as the Central Line.
    I think it makes it worse, that heat generated by people and trains has got nowhere to go, it just accumulates now I'm pretty sure it was over 30 degrees on the train. Like it's been bad, last summer and autumn were bad but this is way, way worse than I've ever experienced it. One lady looked like she was going to pass out.
    The video Robert linked to suggests that it's worse to have trains running outside as they absorb heat from the Sun and deposit it in the tunnels.
    Yeah, I think that was probably true until we got those days over 36 degrees, the air got into the underground and then they haven't managed to get it cooled down again, plus the everyday heating it's just become a disaster. I used to get the Victoria Line every weekday to Oxford Circus for 4 years, it was never, ever this bad.
    I get it after Arsenal games and I don't think it's any worse now than before.
  • As we are doing ice caves from Iceland, one from this summer.


  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    malcolmg said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
    "Properly" = no guide.

    Darwinism.
    I’d expect that most of us know that much of the challenge, and joy, of travel is finding yourself in an unfamiliar environment and working out how to cope with all the challenges that throws at you, and enjoy where you are. Looking for someone at the airport holding up a piece of paper with your name on it, and then following them about for a week, is a pale imitation.
    You’re an idiot. You simply can’t go to half these places without professional guides

    1. It’s Icelandic law
    2. You could easily die

    All you are doing is proving that you actually have not travelled much, if you disbelieve this
    It's Icelandic law? When I went to Iceland only a few years ago it wasn't law to have a guide.

    I agree you can die, but that depends upon weather conditions. Again when I was there it was very mild and driving wasn't an issue at all and you could rent a car.
    You rented a car to go over a glacier and down into underground caverns as per the pictures?
    Boom boom. Yes they weren't happy when I returned it.
  • FFS. Order samples from the Romanian client which I need for a specific task they need doing. Faff getting the export team to prepare them. Complaints from the owner about costs. Box arrives today (having been dispatched a day later than promised) with half the stuff asked for missing. Yep, they've left out the stuff I desperately needed.

    Two other sample consignments went out at the same time. If they have shorted those then they will be in trouble, and not from me. That the lazy fuck organising these is the nephew of the owner is a problem...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789
    Leon said:

    Quite the statistic


    “One of every 180 Albanians are currently awaiting a UK asylum decision….”

    https://twitter.com/frasernelson/status/1587786452573847553?s=46&t=LTLtF7M8R5zmcXR3VsApVg

    I'm tempted to move over there. Sounds like there is going to be a lot of space and cheap property.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Trump 2024 campaign prepares for post-midterms launch
    https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-donald-trump-41b12f18f536017920d2f74803980899

    (And post-midterm indictments.)
  • MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.

    Worth watching this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MzHt_YLnjw
    Very interesting... though Max is complaining about the Victoria Line, which is entirely underground, so it shouldn't be as badly affected as the Central Line.
    I think it makes it worse, that heat generated by people and trains has got nowhere to go, it just accumulates now I'm pretty sure it was over 30 degrees on the train. Like it's been bad, last summer and autumn were bad but this is way, way worse than I've ever experienced it. One lady looked like she was going to pass out.
    The video Robert linked to suggests that it's worse to have trains running outside as they absorb heat from the Sun and deposit it in the tunnels.
    Yeah, I think that was probably true until we got those days over 36 degrees, the air got into the underground and then they haven't managed to get it cooled down again, plus the everyday heating it's just become a disaster. I used to get the Victoria Line every weekday to Oxford Circus for 4 years, it was never, ever this bad.
    It's the accumulated heat in the earth around the tunnels. When the tube first opened it was beautifully cool but now the ground has absorbed 100 years of heat from the trains (a bit less for the Victoria line). The best solution is to put water pipes through the ground near the tunnels, which I think maybe has been done somewhere, to generate a local heating source for houses nearby but I guess that's expensive.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    No I think it looks as though it is just the one pheasant on their lapels.
    I have found my perfect fall out shelter

    Vatnajokulls Ice Cave. Phenom




    Thing is, for most of Iceland you wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between the landscape pre- and post-nuclear holocaust.
    Water supplies won’t be an issue. Filtered through a thousand years of ice


    Fuck me, it's Kevin Talbot.
    No it's not it's Ian Murray!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    edited November 2022
    One for @Dura_Ace

    TV ad for the Citroën Visa GTi in 1988, propelled like a Super Etendard* over the sea. Note that the car was actually catapulted from the 'Clemenceau' aircraft carrier and had to be filled with concrete to film a proper launch, without the car disintegrating immediately.
    https://twitter.com/AviationMarlene/status/1587774876349333505

    *The aircraft shown in the video is the Etendard 4P, apparently.
  • Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That’s not actually what he was saying in the video. But Labour had artfully cut the video to mislead.

    He was saying that all deprived areas need support - including deprived rural areas in Kent - not just deprived urban areas
    The problem was not him rightly pointing to pockets of deprived rural areas. The probem was that he claimed he had taken money from genuinely shonky areas in the north to give to pockets of deprived rural areas.

    Nobody is denying that rural places can't hide poverty. But you can't divert money from places already promised the cash. Or in practice what it's meant is that money has gone to posh Tory areas to sort the small bit that isn't quite as posh as the rest whilst the scum area gets little or nothing.

    Stockton on Tees seeing levelling up money spent in Yarm as a prime example. Yes, there are bits of Yarm not as nice as the rest. But relatively these areas are fine - certainly a lot better than chunks of town centre or Newtown wards.
    Why do the Tories still have a minister for levelling up? Bottom line up front, Boris Johnson’s glib election promise “we will level up” is undeliverable bollocks.

    Once you fathom out the impossible to fathom out “what exactly does it mean? Level up the north to the level of the south? But bits of the south are just as run down as bits of the north and vice versa? And switch to how to do it anyway to delivery something at least, even though you don’t really understand what it means, you realise it’s not about funnelling existing money from this to that, you will just end up hated and stuck in the 20s in the polling, it has to be new money, given to deserving places, fairly, and so that Tiverton in Blue Wall can’t get upset they are just as deserving and being cheated.

    After all that, are you now levelling up? Of course not, because it is just pretend the ancient mismatch in scale and wealth between London and the secondary cities their regions can ever be levelled, it always was empty unachievable Johnsonian electioneering bollocks.
    Why? Because:
    (a) Red Wall voters have noticed they are still relatively / actually poor
    (b) Brexit promised them resources and riches
    (c) Tories promised them definitely resources and riches
    (d) They won't take no for an answer

    Either this government produces a rabbit out of the hat or the Tory 2019 first timers depart.
    (A) is wrong.

    Red Wall Tory voters are typically home owners, not impoverished people awaiting resources and riches.

    Thanks to the relatively huge success in building new homes up here, compared to the rest of the country, the Red Wall has seen much more people getting on the property ladder rather than the reverse happening as in much of the country.

    That's the real reason the non-metropolitan North has been swinging Tory while the South is swinging against the Tories. Because voters here have their own deeds to their very own Barratt Home and similar, rather than rental bills.
  • OllyT said:

    Good morning

    Strange times indeed

    Greta Thunberg to boycott COP27 due to human right abuses

    Rishi Sunak to attend COP27

    Sunak has ended up with the worst of both worlds politically.

    He said he wasn't going. giving the impression he didn't much care about environmental issues. He then u-turned giving an excuse that had little credibility making him look weak/indecisive. He then decided to go giving the impression that he's just paying it lip-service.to the whole thing.

    Don't get me wrong I think we have well passed the tipping point on climate issues, too little, too late and therefore his attendance is irrelevant. I am looking at it simply from the political angle. Two weeks in and I am coming to the conclusion that your boy hasn't got much political nous.
    He is very presentable and seems to be gaining approval with the voters but after the last 6 months this is a marathon (2 years anyway) and not a sprint

    As most know I have said it will be next Spring at the earliest before we have a real idea of just how far he has travelled
  • OllyT said:

    Good morning

    Strange times indeed

    Greta Thunberg to boycott COP27 due to human right abuses

    Rishi Sunak to attend COP27

    Sunak has ended up with the worst of both worlds politically.

    He said he wasn't going. giving the impression he didn't much care about environmental issues. He then u-turned giving an excuse that had little credibility making him look weak/indecisive. He then decided to go giving the impression that he's just paying it lip-service.to the whole thing.

    Don't get me wrong I think we have well passed the tipping point on climate issues, too little, too late and therefore his attendance is irrelevant. I am looking at it simply from the political angle. Two weeks in and I am coming to the conclusion that your boy hasn't got much political nous.
    I miss the days when we could go 48 hours without the government changing their mind.

    It demonstrates how badly our government has been run in recent times that they manage to make themselves look the worst they possibly could on pretty much every controversial decision they take (and then row back on).
This discussion has been closed.