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Will the Tories ever get over Kwarteng’s budget? – politicalbetting.com

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  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    edited November 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Rishi has made himself a hostage to fortune with his comments on migration.

    Cracking questions from SKS (sozza @bjo )

    Whats SKSs policy on migration?

    In fact TBF substitute any policy area you wish for migration

    Or perhaps its awaiting focus group results (does the guy have any principles??)
  • After Black Wednesday the Tories went a period of one of poll lead in eight years.

    (That one poll was right at the end of 1992.)

    Had Liz Truss continued as PM until the next general election I reckon that polling record would have been broken.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    I'm glad the Scottish Government has taken on board recent population projections:

    https://twitter.com/scotgov/status/1587791766899523585?t=bGXQKmQxKNyhmKLP46oaUQ&s=19
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789

    kjh said:

    I must confess I got Liz Truss completely wrong. I shared @Big_G_NorthWales view (correct me if I am wrong Big G). I thought there was a 90% chance she was going to be a big fat damp squib, poleaxed by her inability to present and coming up with nothing new. I also thought there was a 10% chance she was going to surprise us on the upside coming out with new popular ideas starting with the energy crisis.

    I never thought she would come out with lots of radical stuff that would sink her immediately.

    Well she spent two months of campaign clearly promising exactly what she did, and still believes in.

    Our own Big G gave PM Liz support all the way up to the Monday following the budget, largely on the basis thank goodness shes not Boris, no one could be worse than Boris…
    I know what she said, but I didn't expect her to do it (with knobs on).
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    Yeah. I've turned all my shot glasses upside down.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited November 2022

    TOPPING said:

    Rishi has made himself a hostage to fortune with his comments on migration.

    Cracking questions from SKS (sozza @bjo )

    Whats SKSs policy on migration?

    In fact TBF substitute any policy area you wish for migration
    I thought he gave a very sensible bullet point policy list in his last question.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    No I think it looks as though it is just the one pheasant on their lapels.
    I have found my perfect fall out shelter

    Vatnajokulls Ice Cave. Phenom




  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Jonathan said:

    Sunak seems to be approaching PMQs like a failing opposition leader. Chuck out yesterdays slogans and complain about long gone politicians. Corbyn is the new Thatch. So tired. He can’t answer a single question, because he’s not in top of the details.

    It’s very weak. My hunch is that his number 10 setup isn’t functioning yet and he will improve eventually. But now it’s all noise and bluster. Perhaps it’s another case of ministerial experience not preparing you for the PM role.

    The MPs behind him are happy if they get any old rubbish confidently delivered, provided it knocks Labour, and they hope those of us at home won’t notice that it’s all rubbish.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I must confess I got Liz Truss completely wrong. I shared @Big_G_NorthWales view (correct me if I am wrong Big G). I thought there was a 90% chance she was going to be a big fat damp squib, poleaxed by her inability to present and coming up with nothing new. I also thought there was a 10% chance she was going to surprise us on the upside coming out with new popular ideas starting with the energy crisis.

    I never thought she would come out with lots of radical stuff that would sink her immediately.

    Well she spent two months of campaign clearly promising exactly what she did, and still believes in.

    Our own Big G gave PM Liz support all the way up to the Monday following the budget, largely on the basis thank goodness shes not Boris, no one could be worse than Boris…
    I know what she said, but I didn't expect her to do it (with knobs on).
    SKS mindset
  • Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    Yeah right, we're meant to believe a nation that can barely agree to mobilise some peasants and is unable to stop the Turks from breaking their grain embargo is willing to commit nuclear suicide?

    Pull the other one.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    EPG said:

    DougSeal said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/02/rishi-sunak-suella-braverman-british-politics-austerity-hostile-environment

    "Austerity in the Treasury; a hostile environment at the Home Office. After 12 years and four prime ministers, British politics has cycled back to where it started, but that much meaner and poorer. All for what? Where did the journey take us? To Brexit, to rage, to division and economic downgrade. A dozen years wasted. A crusade whipped up by nationalist zealots to a holy land that doesn’t exist to fight an enemy that was actually our friend, defeating no one but ourselves."

    Hmm. Becajuse there is no inflation or energy crisis in the EU. There are no EU countries with immigration policies like the UK. The EU central bank is not raising interest rates. There are no riots in France, or protests in Spain......No EU country has far right parties snapping at the heels of power.....
    First class whataboutery.
    Try reading the article. The point it is making isn't that the EU is better than us. It is that leaving the EU hasn't helped the UK in any way, while stoking division and distracting policymakers from our real problems - a point that voters seem to agree with.
    Brexit happened. You need to move on. As does the Guardian.
    The only way to move on is to accept the damage that Brexit has caused and seek to mitigate that damage. You need to realise that, accept responsibility for the division and harm you’ve caused, and work with the people to remedy it.
    Felix voted Remain.

    It's stunningly hypocritical for people who still haven't accepted the result of a democratic vote to demand atonement for the creation of division from the people who have.
    Six years ago, longer than the lifetime of a Parliament, and you got what you wanted. But I've never seen a group of winners more bitter at the shitness of the prize they won, while also insisting it be treated as an irreversible state religion.
    I also voted Remain.

    It may be hard to remember now, but many people genuinely did think that by voting for Brexit, they would put an end to the interminable debate about the European question in British politics. The primary reason this has not happened is because of Remainers not accepting the outcome.

    It will only be true to say that people who voted for Brexit got what they wanted when the issue is regarded as settled.
    Brexit will never be settled.

    The Eurosceptic shits made life hell from Macmillan to Cameron. Now the boot is on the other foot and we’re going to kick and kick and kick the shits in the goolies til the cows come home.

    (I can mix some more metaphors if you like.)
    From Sweden?
    If I held the opposite opinion, would my location undermine that opinion?
    No one needs to try to undermine your opinion. I was simply pointing out that you achieve it yourself every time you rail against the British government.
    Huh? Opposing the UK government automatically undermines one’s opinion?

    Welcome to Tory topsy-turvey land. Most UK citizens oppose the UK government.
    It’s funny. A Scot who argues for the right to self determination doesn’t support it in the case of the UK… it’s almost as if he is just anti-English
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    No I think it looks as though it is just the one pheasant on their lapels.
    I have found my perfect fall out shelter

    Vatnajokulls Ice Cave. Phenom




    Thing is, for most of Iceland you wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between the landscape pre- and post-nuclear holocaust.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited November 2022
    kjh said:

    I must confess I got Liz Truss completely wrong. I shared @Big_G_NorthWales view (correct me if I am wrong Big G). I thought there was a 90% chance she was going to be a big fat damp squib, poleaxed by her inability to present and coming up with nothing new. I also thought there was a 10% chance she was going to surprise us on the upside coming out with new popular ideas starting with the energy crisis.

    I never thought she would come out with lots of radical stuff that would sink her immediately.

    You seek to claim that your prediction was actually half right, because she did indeed surprise us, just not on the upside?

    If our Leon had more intellectual imagination he really should have got to that line first!
  • Selebian said:

    algarkirk said:

    10 year borrowing rates, change in the last year:

    UK

    1% -> 3.5%

    Germany

    -0.2% -> 2.1%

    US

    1.5% -> 4%

    France

    0.1% -> 2.5%

    Ireland

    0.2% ->2.6%

    Denmark

    0.1% -> 2.5%

    As you can see, basically all up 2.5%.

    The UK was worse after the minibudget, but it's right on trend now.

    And that's even with the BoE yesterday making history and engaging in active QT unlike the ECB or rest of the wold.
    One indicator to watch out if the UK economic/political situation begins to stabilise:

    The rhetoric shifts from "We are maxed out on our credit card, insolvent due to government debt and the sick man of Europe"

    to (what is the case but currently ignored)

    "Of the G7 countries (all of which are civilised, democratic and liberal apart from the USA if Trumpism gets back) our public debt as % of GDP is the second lowest after Germany".

    If we are bankrupt, then so is Japan, France, Italy, Canada and the USA.

    Whenever I hear about the UK's credit card, I do wonder wistfully about who gets all the Avios points :hushed:
    Bondholders?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited November 2022
    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    No I think it looks as though it is just the one pheasant on their lapels.
    I have found my perfect fall out shelter

    Vatnajokulls Ice Cave. Phenom




    Strange that the local KKK grand wizard chose it as his northern hideout
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    Yeah right, we're meant to believe a nation that can barely agree to mobilise some peasants and is unable to stop the Turks from breaking their grain embargo is willing to commit nuclear suicide?

    Pull the other one.

    Not sure “pull the other one” is the optimum retort at this juncture
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited November 2022

    After Black Wednesday the Tories went a period of one of poll lead in eight years.

    (That one poll was right at the end of 1992.)

    Had Liz Truss continued as PM until the next general election I reckon that polling record would have been broken.

    How, in just two and a bit years? ;)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Rishi has made himself a hostage to fortune with his comments on migration.

    Cracking questions from SKS (sozza @bjo )

    Whats SKSs policy on migration?

    In fact TBF substitute any policy area you wish for migration
    I thought he gave a very sensible bullet point policy list in his last question.
    He still supports basic rate tax cuts and against additional borrowing and austerity??

    Reeves pro austerity fiscal Conservative who says she will be tougher on those on benefits and offer worse Public Sector Pay rises than the Tories

    Basically all over the place.

    Why would anyone believe a SKS pledge anyway he has already disowned the 10 he made to steal the Leaders job?

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited November 2022

    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    10 year borrowing rates, change in the last year:

    UK

    1% -> 3.5%

    Germany

    -0.2% -> 2.1%

    US

    1.5% -> 4%

    France

    0.1% -> 2.5%

    Ireland

    0.2% ->2.6%

    Denmark

    0.1% -> 2.5%

    As you can see, basically all up 2.5%.

    The UK was worse after the minibudget, but it's right on trend now.

    And that's even with the BoE yesterday making history and engaging in active QT unlike the ECB or rest of the wold.
    One indicator to watch out if the UK economic/political situation begins to stabilise:

    The rhetoric shifts from "We are maxed out on our credit card, insolvent due to government debt and the sick man of Europe"

    to (what is the case but currently ignored)

    "Of the G7 countries (all of which are civilised, democratic and liberal apart from the USA if Trumpism gets back) our public debt as % of GDP is the second lowest after Germany".

    If we are bankrupt, then so is Japan, France, Italy, Canada and the USA.

    The last decade and a half have been run on the zero-rate never-never, by governments in pretty much all developed countries. The next decade is going to be horrific, as interest rates return to normal levels and that massive debt needs to be serviced.
    You are forgetting the decade before that when debt and leverage grew out of control.
    I like Sandpits post a lot, but you are right this orthodoxy began decade earlier just after the millennium.

    The bond markets seeing no plan for UK growth now, they will perfectly fairly demand a greater return on their investment. Simply put Gilt yields rising above 4 per cent was not high by the standard of the 20th century, nor was living with between 2-4% interest rates and periods of inflation.

    government shouldn’t now continue to make everything worse by trying to keep gilts and interest rates down - it’s doom loop economics, low interest rates creates debt, coupled with political reluctance to tackle inflation because raising interest rates will make people poorer

    So, at collapse of this twenty year orthodoxy, all countries will be left in their own positions - US have 30 year mortgages as a cushion to raised interest rates and can get away with debt levels we can’t. In UK, where Tories are right to blame Labour for 10 years of it, the twenty year orthodoxy has failed Britain and its people: here we are after it with an insane housing market, negative real interest rates, double digit inflation, taxes at a 70 year high, exponential spending on the worst health service in Europe, £2.4 trillion of debt and lower wages than we had in 2008.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I must confess I got Liz Truss completely wrong. I shared @Big_G_NorthWales view (correct me if I am wrong Big G). I thought there was a 90% chance she was going to be a big fat damp squib, poleaxed by her inability to present and coming up with nothing new. I also thought there was a 10% chance she was going to surprise us on the upside coming out with new popular ideas starting with the energy crisis.

    I never thought she would come out with lots of radical stuff that would sink her immediately.

    Well she spent two months of campaign clearly promising exactly what she did, and still believes in.

    Our own Big G gave PM Liz support all the way up to the Monday following the budget, largely on the basis thank goodness shes not Boris, no one could be worse than Boris…
    I know what she said, but I didn't expect her to do it (with knobs on).
    SKS mindset
    You are weirdly, creepily obsessed with Sir Keir.

    Do you ever post about anything else?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    No I think it looks as though it is just the one pheasant on their lapels.
    I have found my perfect fall out shelter

    Vatnajokulls Ice Cave. Phenom




    Thing is, for most of Iceland you wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between the landscape pre- and post-nuclear holocaust.
    Water supplies won’t be an issue. Filtered through a thousand years of ice


  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,841
    UK gas prices shooting up again. Why?
  • ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    Its a big win? When the PM has a cabinet full of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson picks? The same Boris Johnson he stood shoulder to shoulder with?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    WillG said:

    It was an absolute shit show of a budget, worse than the ERM, because this was clearly self inflicted as a lone move by the Truss government, whereas ERM was a mistake supported by the whole political elite.

    After Brexit, we saw tremendous wage growth in lower income professions, which generated a lot of goodwill towards Johnson before he screwed it up with partygate. Then Truss undid that wage increase with the currency devaluation, in order to give a tax cut for the rich.

    “Then Truss undid that wage increase with the currency devaluation”

    What currency devaluation?
    It somewhat misses the point on another level, too. The inflation (and BOE failure) that followed the wage growth led to the interest rate rises that are now being mooned at....
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    edited November 2022

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I must confess I got Liz Truss completely wrong. I shared @Big_G_NorthWales view (correct me if I am wrong Big G). I thought there was a 90% chance she was going to be a big fat damp squib, poleaxed by her inability to present and coming up with nothing new. I also thought there was a 10% chance she was going to surprise us on the upside coming out with new popular ideas starting with the energy crisis.

    I never thought she would come out with lots of radical stuff that would sink her immediately.

    Well she spent two months of campaign clearly promising exactly what she did, and still believes in.

    Our own Big G gave PM Liz support all the way up to the Monday following the budget, largely on the basis thank goodness shes not Boris, no one could be worse than Boris…
    I know what she said, but I didn't expect her to do it (with knobs on).
    SKS mindset
    You are weirdly, creepily obsessed with Sir Keir.

    Do you ever post about anything else?
    L4%K?? and my post at 12.45 and Lula and Polling and Braverman and Jezza and #enoughisenoughnotinrespectofSKSthough obvs.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    Yeah right, we're meant to believe a nation that can barely agree to mobilise some peasants and is unable to stop the Turks from breaking their grain embargo is willing to commit nuclear suicide?

    Pull the other one.

    Not sure “pull the other one” is the optimum retort at this juncture
    Russia couldn't be more obviously bluffing, if President Putin was standing their stomping his feet and futilely screaming "I'm not bluffing!"

    Oh wait, he's already done that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited November 2022

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Rishi has made himself a hostage to fortune with his comments on migration.

    Cracking questions from SKS (sozza @bjo )

    Whats SKSs policy on migration?

    In fact TBF substitute any policy area you wish for migration
    I thought he gave a very sensible bullet point policy list in his last question.
    He still supports basic rate tax cuts and against additional borrowing and austerity??

    Reeves pro austerity fiscal Conservative who says she will be tougher on those on benefits and offer worse Public Sector Pay rises than the Tories

    Basically all over the place.

    Why would anyone believe a SKS pledge anyway he has already disowned the 10 he made to steal the Leaders job?

    Well at present the one thing he can't renege on is his promise not to be the Conservative Party in government.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I must confess I got Liz Truss completely wrong. I shared @Big_G_NorthWales view (correct me if I am wrong Big G). I thought there was a 90% chance she was going to be a big fat damp squib, poleaxed by her inability to present and coming up with nothing new. I also thought there was a 10% chance she was going to surprise us on the upside coming out with new popular ideas starting with the energy crisis.

    I never thought she would come out with lots of radical stuff that would sink her immediately.

    Well she spent two months of campaign clearly promising exactly what she did, and still believes in.

    Our own Big G gave PM Liz support all the way up to the Monday following the budget, largely on the basis thank goodness shes not Boris, no one could be worse than Boris…
    I know what she said, but I didn't expect her to do it (with knobs on).
    SKS mindset
    You are weirdly, creepily obsessed with Sir Keir.

    Do you ever post about anything else?
    L4%K??
    Yes, you post about her (assume Liz Kendall?) occasionally too, another of your bizarre infatuations. Odd
  • rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning

    Strange times indeed

    Greta Thunberg to boycott COP27 due to human right abuses

    Rishi Sunak to attend COP27

    Will anyone take in-person climate conferences seriously, while hundreds of attendees fly in to it, many on private or governmental aircraft?

    If they want to actually show action, have the whole thing sponsored by Cisco Webex, as an example of the power of remote conferencing. Did nothing get learned from the pandemic?

    The average man in the street might be convinced about changes in their own behaviour, once the people advocating for changed behaviour first do so themselves.
    I had to use Cisco WebEx last week.

    There are few better arguments for in person meetings.
    iirc it was Webex and MS Teams that had the mute and unmute icons the opposite way round, leading to hours of fun for those of us who used both.
  • Mortimer said:

    WillG said:

    It was an absolute shit show of a budget, worse than the ERM, because this was clearly self inflicted as a lone move by the Truss government, whereas ERM was a mistake supported by the whole political elite.

    After Brexit, we saw tremendous wage growth in lower income professions, which generated a lot of goodwill towards Johnson before he screwed it up with partygate. Then Truss undid that wage increase with the currency devaluation, in order to give a tax cut for the rich.

    “Then Truss undid that wage increase with the currency devaluation”

    What currency devaluation?
    It somewhat misses the point on another level, too. The inflation (and BOE failure) that followed the wage growth led to the interest rate rises that are now being mooned at....
    Inflation was caused by an external commodity price shock, not wage growth.

    The inflation problem would be worse for working people if they weren't getting pay rises. Which is why we have some people here still bemoaning they can't get the staff they want for minimum wage anymore.
  • Jonathan said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I must confess I got Liz Truss completely wrong. I shared @Big_G_NorthWales view (correct me if I am wrong Big G). I thought there was a 90% chance she was going to be a big fat damp squib, poleaxed by her inability to present and coming up with nothing new. I also thought there was a 10% chance she was going to surprise us on the upside coming out with new popular ideas starting with the energy crisis.

    I never thought she would come out with lots of radical stuff that would sink her immediately.

    Well she spent two months of campaign clearly promising exactly what she did, and still believes in.

    Our own Big G gave PM Liz support all the way up to the Monday following the budget, largely on the basis thank goodness shes not Boris, no one could be worse than Boris…
    I know what she said, but I didn't expect her to do it (with knobs on).
    SKS mindset
    You are weirdly, creepily obsessed with Sir Keir.

    Do you ever post about anything else?
    When BJO was a kid, a centrist took his dinner money.
    There are no centrists. There are fine upstanding socialist intellects like Richard Burgon, or there are Tories.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    Its a big win? When the PM has a cabinet full of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson picks? The same Boris Johnson he stood shoulder to shoulder with?
    Do you dispute the spectre of Corbyn remains a massive problem for Labour? Sunak wouldn't use the attack every week if he didn't believe it hits the target.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Rishi has made himself a hostage to fortune with his comments on migration.

    Cracking questions from SKS (sozza @bjo )

    Whats SKSs policy on migration?

    In fact TBF substitute any policy area you wish for migration
    I thought he gave a very sensible bullet point policy list in his last question.
    He still supports basic rate tax cuts and against additional borrowing and austerity??

    Reeves pro austerity fiscal Conservative who says she will be tougher on those on benefits and offer worse Public Sector Pay rises than the Tories

    Basically all over the place.

    Why would anyone believe a SKS pledge anyway he has already disowned the 10 he made to steal the Leaders job?

    Well at present the one thing he can't renege on is his promise not to be the Conservative Party in government.
    He can renege on anything IMO apart from FOI in which case he would be gone quicker than the Taste the Difference range at the foodbank
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Sunak wouldn't use the attack every week if he didn't believe it hits the target.

    He would if he has nothing else
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    TOPPING said:

    Rishi has made himself a hostage to fortune with his comments on migration.

    Cracking questions from SKS (sozza @bjo )

    Whats SKSs policy on migration?

    In fact TBF substitute any policy area you wish for migration

    Or perhaps its awaiting focus group results (does the guy have any principles??)
    Whilst it is good for Labour to have policies, I absolutely hate that PMQs has become about "what are the LOTOs views" because that is not what PMQs is for! The purpose of PMQs is (in an ideal world) the loyal opposition keeping the government on its toes through socratic dialogue, an opportunity for the government to face scrutiny for its actions. The LOTO has no ability to make policy, but the PM does - so always turning back to "what is LOTOs position" is silly. Literally everywhere else it makes sense - in political debate in parliament, in media, in campaigns; but PMQs serves one purpose alone - to question the decisions of the government of the day that impact the nation. The opposition benches do not have that power, so asking them questions is moot.
  • ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    I don't really think this is correct.

    No doubt it was a good hustings line in the leadership contest Sunak lost to a Lettuce.

    But that's preaching to political, Johnsonite Tories. For the electorate at large, Corbyn is a man who was never PM and now isn't even a Labour MP - an historical oddity and nothing more.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161
    algarkirk said:

    10 year borrowing rates, change in the last year:

    UK

    1% -> 3.5%

    Germany

    -0.2% -> 2.1%

    US

    1.5% -> 4%

    France

    0.1% -> 2.5%

    Ireland

    0.2% ->2.6%

    Denmark

    0.1% -> 2.5%

    As you can see, basically all up 2.5%.

    The UK was worse after the minibudget, but it's right on trend now.

    And that's even with the BoE yesterday making history and engaging in active QT unlike the ECB or rest of the wold.
    One indicator to watch out if the UK economic/political situation begins to stabilise:

    The rhetoric shifts from "We are maxed out on our credit card, insolvent due to government debt and the sick man of Europe"

    to (what is the case but currently ignored)

    "Of the G7 countries (all of which are civilised, democratic and liberal apart from the USA if Trumpism gets back) our public debt as % of GDP is the second lowest after Germany".

    If we are bankrupt, then so is Japan, France, Italy, Canada and the USA.

    I think everyone already knows that Japan and Italy are bankrupt :smile:

    Also: Canada's government debt-to-GDP is lower than the UK's, unless you are including local and provincial governments. But if you're going to include them, then you also need to include local government in the UK.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    SKS's only problem with the deportation of asylum seekers to Rwanda is that not enough have been deported yet and it might be a bit pricey FFS
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    edited November 2022

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    References to Corbyn aren't references to Jeremy Corbyn as such. They are short hand for the muscle memory of Labour to tax and spend - something which does still resonate with those over 50.

    You will keep hearing "Corbyn" for years to come. Basically, until Labour changes its broken business model.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited November 2022

    ...

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    Its a big win? When the PM has a cabinet full of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson picks? The same Boris Johnson he stood shoulder to shoulder with?
    Do you dispute the spectre of Corbyn remains a massive problem for Labour? Sunak wouldn't use the attack every week if he didn't believe it hits the target.
    If Sunak had more positive answers based on successes, he would fill up the Corbyn time with that instead. Sunak has been right in there for five years so can’t blame others for the baggage he inherited, that leaves him on the defensive unable to break out of his own half other than with over the top Corbyn long balls
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    Yeah right, we're meant to believe a nation that can barely agree to mobilise some peasants and is unable to stop the Turks from breaking their grain embargo is willing to commit nuclear suicide?

    Pull the other one.

    Not sure “pull the other one” is the optimum retort at this juncture
    What happened to the invasion from Belarus?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    SKS's only problem with the deportation of asylum seekers to Rwanda is that not enough have been deported yet and it might be a bit pricey FFS

    You've just made that up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    I'm tinged a shade of emerald.

    Have you been to the Earthquake Machine yet at the geothermal power plant?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    References to Corbyn aren't references to Jeremy Corbyn as such. They are short hand for the muscle memory of Labour to tax and spend - something which does still resonate with those over 50.

    You will keep hearing "Corbyn" for years to come. Basically, until Labour changes its broken business model.

    *cough*Truss*cough*

    People may imagine the damage Corbyn could have done.

    People are living the damage Truss has done.

    For years to come...
  • ...

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    Its a big win? When the PM has a cabinet full of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson picks? The same Boris Johnson he stood shoulder to shoulder with?
    Do you dispute the spectre of Corbyn remains a massive problem for Labour? Sunak wouldn't use the attack every week if he didn't believe it hits the target.
    Tottenham keep using Lucas Moura and he hasn't hit the target all season.
  • ...

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    Its a big win? When the PM has a cabinet full of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson picks? The same Boris Johnson he stood shoulder to shoulder with?
    Do you dispute the spectre of Corbyn remains a massive problem for Labour? Sunak wouldn't use the attack every week if he didn't believe it hits the target.
    He *believes* it hits the target. The polls demonstrates this belief to be misplaced. Everyone has moved on a long way from fear of Corbyn. Now it is fear of cold, of hunger, of bills. All of which are on Sunak and Truss and Johnson...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Scott_xP said:

    References to Corbyn aren't references to Jeremy Corbyn as such. They are short hand for the muscle memory of Labour to tax and spend - something which does still resonate with those over 50.

    You will keep hearing "Corbyn" for years to come. Basically, until Labour changes its broken business model.

    *cough*Truss*cough*

    People may imagine the damage Corbyn could have done.

    People are living the damage Truss has done.

    For years to come...
    Truss was so fleeting and replaced so totally that she is but a questioning "Did that really happen?"
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Jonathan said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I must confess I got Liz Truss completely wrong. I shared @Big_G_NorthWales view (correct me if I am wrong Big G). I thought there was a 90% chance she was going to be a big fat damp squib, poleaxed by her inability to present and coming up with nothing new. I also thought there was a 10% chance she was going to surprise us on the upside coming out with new popular ideas starting with the energy crisis.

    I never thought she would come out with lots of radical stuff that would sink her immediately.

    Well she spent two months of campaign clearly promising exactly what she did, and still believes in.

    Our own Big G gave PM Liz support all the way up to the Monday following the budget, largely on the basis thank goodness shes not Boris, no one could be worse than Boris…
    I know what she said, but I didn't expect her to do it (with knobs on).
    SKS mindset
    You are weirdly, creepily obsessed with Sir Keir.

    Do you ever post about anything else?
    When BJO was a kid, a centrist took his dinner money.
    No mate since 1979 the Liberal elite (Centrists) have taken poor peoples money and given it to the richest in Society.

    The first time that was challenged the Liberal Elites in both Parties and the Centrists at Lab HQ literally stole money from marginal winnable seats and used it to protect the Liberal Elite enablers in safe PLP Centrist seats.

    Determined to defeat the alternative real change that Jezza offered

    The centrist took the dinner money but was stolen back by Marcus Rashford and Ian Byrne who Centrists now want rid of
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    SKS's only problem with the deportation of asylum seekers to Rwanda is that not enough have been deported yet and it might be a bit pricey FFS

    You've just made that up.
    Starmer called it a gimmick - Owls Fan wants Starmer to come off the fence and say what he really thinks about it
  • https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/nov/02/channel-4s-40-best-shows-ranked

    Wow, Channel 4 really has made a lot of great TV. I'm surprised how many of these I've watched. Number 1 is controversial but fair, probably.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    ...

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    Its a big win? When the PM has a cabinet full of Liz Truss and Boris Johnson picks? The same Boris Johnson he stood shoulder to shoulder with?
    Do you dispute the spectre of Corbyn remains a massive problem for Labour? Sunak wouldn't use the attack every week if he didn't believe it hits the target.
    I don't think Corbyn is a problem for Labour at all - as someone who is not in the Labour party but liked Corbyn's policy proposals, Starmer has clearly staked out his position as not Corbyn by a) kicking Corbyn out of the Labour party and b) diluting the language of transformative change proposed by Corbyn's front bench in favour of a more moderate and (arguably) small c conservative premise of, essentially, "we would do most of what the Tories would do but more efficiently and slightly more heart".

    I think it is also clear that voters are at least willing to entertain a Starmer government in a way they (unfortunately from my view) wouldn't consider a Corbyn one. That Labour was polling in the low 50s% shows that clearly to me.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161

    When are the US mid term Elections?

    Next Tuesday.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    Yeah right, we're meant to believe a nation that can barely agree to mobilise some peasants and is unable to stop the Turks from breaking their grain embargo is willing to commit nuclear suicide?

    Pull the other one.

    Not sure “pull the other one” is the optimum retort at this juncture
    What happened to the invasion from Belarus?
    Yokes suggested it is still on just two days ago.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    SKS's only problem with the deportation of asylum seekers to Rwanda is that not enough have been deported yet and it might be a bit pricey FFS

    You've just made that up.
    Actually, I think @bigjohnowls is right there. That's what Starmer pointed out in PMQs. Obviously one can object to a policy on a number of grounds, but those are the reasons that Starmer mentioned today.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    UK gas prices shooting up again. Why?

    Yes. I’d like to know. That was the only bit of good news!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    SKS's only problem with the deportation of asylum seekers to Rwanda is that not enough have been deported yet and it might be a bit pricey FFS

    You've just made that up.
    I am against deportation

    Is SKS?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Has anyone seen me and Frankie Boyle in the same room

    https://twitter.com/Agitate4Change/status/1587620947816861696/photo/1
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    MaxPB said:

    Very difficult to find a way back. Fiscal responsibility is part of it and Rishi/Hunt will have a good stab at that but ultimately they need to get the economy growing in a very tough environment where everyone around us will have a much worse recessions and bigger falls in discretionary spending. If ever there was a time to attach ourselves to the SE Asian tiger economies it's now, hopefully Kemi can make this happen because the European economy is going to be in the shit for the next decade at least.

    In 1992, the ERM fiasco did for the Conservatives.
    They actually managed to turn around the economy by 1997 but it counted for naught because certain people like Mellor, Aitkin and Hamilton mired the party in sleaze.
    The opponent faced was Blair.

    Now Sunak faces a similar problem but:
    1. He has two years (not four and a half) to turn the economy around.
    2. He's already facing problems that aren't economical - Braverman was completely his choice. Hancock clearly isn't but there will be some impact.
    3. He faces Starmer not Blair.

    1 is a problem. There really isn't much time left to turn the ship around.
    2 is a problem that he may or may not be able to do much about.
    3 is a positive as Starmer is a dull technocrat with a limited vision for Britain but will this be enough?

    It's a difficult task, not impossible, but difficult.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    References to Corbyn aren't references to Jeremy Corbyn as such. They are short hand for the muscle memory of Labour to tax and spend - something which does still resonate with those over 50.

    You will keep hearing "Corbyn" for years to come. Basically, until Labour changes its broken business model.
    As opposed to the Hunt/Sunak business model of tax and not spend?

    I don't see attacks on Corbyn as a metaphor for Labour's current business programme. If it were Sunak wouldn't have referenced Hezbollah. They are attacks on Starmer's association with a reprehensible and evil former leader of the Labour Party.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    Yeah right, we're meant to believe a nation that can barely agree to mobilise some peasants and is unable to stop the Turks from breaking their grain embargo is willing to commit nuclear suicide?

    Pull the other one.

    Not sure “pull the other one” is the optimum retort at this juncture
    Russia couldn't be more obviously bluffing, if President Putin was standing their stomping his feet and futilely screaming "I'm not bluffing!"

    Oh wait, he's already done that.
    Nothing quite says "I'm bluffing" like saying "I'm not bluffing".
  • SKS's only problem with the deportation of asylum seekers to Rwanda is that not enough have been deported yet and it might be a bit pricey FFS

    You've just made that up.
    I am against deportation

    Is SKS?
    Nope. He's planning to deport all the remaining socialists there once he becomes PM.

    HE IS SUCH A BEAST!!!
  • ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    References to Corbyn aren't references to Jeremy Corbyn as such. They are short hand for the muscle memory of Labour to tax and spend - something which does still resonate with those over 50.

    You will keep hearing "Corbyn" for years to come. Basically, until Labour changes its broken business model.
    Andrew Neil introduced the American tax-and-spend meme to Britain. It ignores the reality that in this country, whatever one's views on taxation, government spending remains popular with all sections of the electorate. It's not like the United States where half the country suspects Washington is engaged in a huge, criminal conspiracy against the populace.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Mortimer said:

    WillG said:

    It was an absolute shit show of a budget, worse than the ERM, because this was clearly self inflicted as a lone move by the Truss government, whereas ERM was a mistake supported by the whole political elite.

    After Brexit, we saw tremendous wage growth in lower income professions, which generated a lot of goodwill towards Johnson before he screwed it up with partygate. Then Truss undid that wage increase with the currency devaluation, in order to give a tax cut for the rich.

    “Then Truss undid that wage increase with the currency devaluation”

    What currency devaluation?
    It somewhat misses the point on another level, too. The inflation (and BOE failure) that followed the wage growth led to the interest rate rises that are now being mooned at....
    Inflation was caused by an external commodity price shock, not wage growth.

    The inflation problem would be worse for working people if they weren't getting pay rises. Which is why we have some people here still bemoaning they can't get the staff they want for minimum wage anymore.
    Generally the same people who go on about a living wage and how people in full time work shouldnt need to rely on welfare/food banks.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,161

    Jonathan said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    I must confess I got Liz Truss completely wrong. I shared @Big_G_NorthWales view (correct me if I am wrong Big G). I thought there was a 90% chance she was going to be a big fat damp squib, poleaxed by her inability to present and coming up with nothing new. I also thought there was a 10% chance she was going to surprise us on the upside coming out with new popular ideas starting with the energy crisis.

    I never thought she would come out with lots of radical stuff that would sink her immediately.

    Well she spent two months of campaign clearly promising exactly what she did, and still believes in.

    Our own Big G gave PM Liz support all the way up to the Monday following the budget, largely on the basis thank goodness shes not Boris, no one could be worse than Boris…
    I know what she said, but I didn't expect her to do it (with knobs on).
    SKS mindset
    You are weirdly, creepily obsessed with Sir Keir.

    Do you ever post about anything else?
    When BJO was a kid, a centrist took his dinner money.
    No mate since 1979 the Liberal elite (Centrists) have taken poor peoples money and given it to the richest in Society.

    The first time that was challenged the Liberal Elites in both Parties and the Centrists at Lab HQ literally stole money from marginal winnable seats and used it to protect the Liberal Elite enablers in safe PLP Centrist seats.

    Determined to defeat the alternative real change that Jezza offered

    The centrist took the dinner money but was stolen back by Marcus Rashford and Ian Byrne who Centrists now want rid of
    Callaghan: We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists, and in so far as it ever did exist, it only worked on each occasion since the war by injecting a bigger dose of inflation into the economy, followed by a higher level of unemployment as the next step.

    Don't you think you should put him with the liberal centrists too?

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    At least we don't have a racist and a fascist in a government led by a criminal.

    Welcome to Israel 2022!
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?
    English numpties who think they know all about more about ice than Icelanders tend to get the very real travel experience of coming home in a coffin.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    This is an actual attack ad from the Tories

    Labour wants you to forget it, but Keir Starmer spent years trying to make Jeremy Corbyn the Prime Minister. Corbyn's worldview:

    ❌ NATO
    ❌ Nuclear Deterrent
    ❌ Anti-Terror Laws
    ✅ Hamas & Hezbollah

    We can't trust Labour with our national security 🥀

    #PMQs https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1587800379362017281/video/1



    The people who actually made actual Liz Fucking Truss actual Prime Minister.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    Yeah right, we're meant to believe a nation that can barely agree to mobilise some peasants and is unable to stop the Turks from breaking their grain embargo is willing to commit nuclear suicide?

    Pull the other one.

    Not sure “pull the other one” is the optimum retort at this juncture
    What happened to the invasion from Belarus?
    The Belarus army didn't fancy the idea.

    The other news which Leon (and the NYT) seems to have missed, as he trecks the barren wastes, was about the conversations the US and Russia held about nukes over the last week. Which led to something of a reduction in tensions.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Has anyone seen me and Frankie Boyle in the same room

    https://twitter.com/Agitate4Change/status/1587620947816861696/photo/1

    I know which side we'd look to for entertainment.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Still to cheer his spirits...

    Kari Lake: “The truth is Joe Biden did not win with 81 million votes, and if you believe he did then you are the conspiracy theorist.”
    https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status/1587616112979677184
  • Two decades plus Guardian columnist quits - the Eye got hold of her resignation letter:

    At least they still have Owen Jones:


    https://twitter.com/bindelj/status/1587788554947665921
  • novanova Posts: 692

    Sunak keeps harping on about Jeremy Corbyn at #PMQs - does anyone actually care?

    Latest @SavantaComRes data found that 46% of the public say attacking Starmer for Labour's association with Corbyn is unfair.

    All
    Fair 27%
    Unfair 46%

    2019 Con
    Fair 40%
    Unfair 38%


    https://twitter.com/chrishopkins92/status/1587786813330038790?s=46&t=ITd2EfWMCAPS0KabZ51mGg

    A professional pollster citing sub-samples?!? The scandal!

    I realise you're mocking, but surely 2019 vote is one of the first things that the poll would have been weighted with.

    Not all sub-samples are created equally.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    edited November 2022

    Just caught up with PMQ. If I were a Tory I'd be concerned.

    Sunak is just replicating the tired old Johnson formula. Don't answer the specific question. Say that Labour wants completely open borders. Not acknowledge any errors at all. And then, remind everybody that Starmer used to sleep with Corbyn, or whatever. It's not far off the "any your mother's a whore" stuff I used to hear in the playground.

    I thought Sunak may reinvigorate the Tories. I don't think he will.

    Sorry - 'any your....' should read 'and your....' of course.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,994
    edited November 2022

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/nov/02/channel-4s-40-best-shows-ranked

    Wow, Channel 4 really has made a lot of great TV. I'm surprised how many of these I've watched. Number 1 is controversial but fair, probably.

    They certainly have had some great shows in the past. Not sure I agree with all that list, especially not number 1 (it wasn't even original, the Dutch came up with it), but there were some good ones there, but what's interesting skimming that list is how their halcyon days seem to have been the 90s to early 2000s.

    The BBC's fans love to play on its past, with shows like Monty Python etc, but its best days were the 60s-80s it seems, but even Channel 4 is very dated now.

    One of the most modern creations on the list is 2013's Gogglebox. Only 3 of the 40 shows began after 2013.

    Broadcast TV channels aren't coping/competing with modern streaming services and that goes for C4 just as much as the Beeb.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning

    Strange times indeed

    Greta Thunberg to boycott COP27 due to human right abuses

    Rishi Sunak to attend COP27

    Will anyone take in-person climate conferences seriously, while hundreds of attendees fly in to it, many on private or governmental aircraft?

    If they want to actually show action, have the whole thing sponsored by Cisco Webex, as an example of the power of remote conferencing. Did nothing get learned from the pandemic?

    The average man in the street might be convinced about changes in their own behaviour, once the people advocating for changed behaviour first do so themselves.
    I had to use Cisco WebEx last week.

    There are few better arguments for in person meetings.
    I have used for years and apart from odd glitch it works a treat
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    I'm tinged a shade of emerald.

    Have you been to the Earthquake Machine yet at the geothermal power plant?

    I think we’re going to something like that tomorrow. Dunno. Don’t care. I’m blissed out. Exhausted. But happy

    That ice cave is a keeper. Stunning. I recommend it to all PB Travellers


    https://www.viator.com/en-GB/tours/Skaftafell/Private-2-hour-tour-in-Natural-Ice-Cave-of-Vatnajokull-Glacier/d25390-47191P1
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
    "Properly" = no guide.

    Darwinism.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    No I think it looks as though it is just the one pheasant on their lapels.
    I have found my perfect fall out shelter

    Vatnajokulls Ice Cave. Phenom




    Thing is, for most of Iceland you wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between the landscape pre- and post-nuclear holocaust.
    Water supplies won’t be an issue. Filtered through a thousand years of ice


    Fuck me, it's Kevin Talbot.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Roger said:

    At least we don't have a racist and a fascist in a government led by a criminal.

    Welcome to Israel 2022!

    = the left's safe space.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    rcs1000 said:

    I had to use Cisco WebEx last week.

    There are few better arguments for in person meetings.

    WebEx truly is the Radiohead of remote conferencing platforms
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    SKS's only problem with the deportation of asylum seekers to Rwanda is that not enough have been deported yet and it might be a bit pricey FFS

    You've just made that up.
    I am against deportation

    Is SKS?
    I don't know about Starmer, but if an asylum seeker is found to be an economic migrant who has no business being here, and his application fails, hell yes. He goes back on an aircraft to his place of origin. Not Rwanda, to his place of origin.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited November 2022
    Who won PMQs today? Going to watch it later.
  • The ONS has an interactive map where you can explore population demographics down to individual census areas - fun tool:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/maps
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    ...

    Just watched PMQs

    SKS made a perfect little weapon against himself by smearing Corbyn and courteously handed it to Sunak, who is now using it, because why wouldn't he?

    It is nonetheless quite remarkable that Sunak associating Starmer with Corbyn "I do think Jeremy Corbyn would make a great Prime Minister" (Starmer) is a big win every week for Sunak. Corbyn remains a massive drag on Labour.
    References to Corbyn aren't references to Jeremy Corbyn as such. They are short hand for the muscle memory of Labour to tax and spend - something which does still resonate with those over 50.

    You will keep hearing "Corbyn" for years to come. Basically, until Labour changes its broken business model.
    As opposed to the Hunt/Sunak business model of tax and not spend?

    I don't see attacks on Corbyn as a metaphor for Labour's current business programme. If it were Sunak wouldn't have referenced Hezbollah. They are attacks on Starmer's association with a reprehensible and evil former leader of the Labour Party.
    Johnson did sks and Savile, sunak does sks and Corbyn, is how it is beginning to look.

    Sunakism is tax and spend, ever since covid.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Leon said:

    WASHINGTON — Senior Russian military leaders recently had conversations to discuss when and how Moscow might use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, contributing to heightened concern in Washington and allied capitals, according to multiple senior American officials.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/02/us/politics/russia-ukraine-nuclear-weapons.html

    Brace?

    No. Russia might escalate further, but it'll be a chemical weapons attack first (which will probably be largely ineffective).

    Russia, and Putin, are still hoping the 300,000 mobilised troops will see them to victory.
    It won't, though it MIGHT head towards a long stalemate.... or at least stop the rot over the winter.

    Putin is still looking for a way out, but I think the only way out for him now is a bullet to the back of the head.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited November 2022
    Ishmael_Z said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is a peak travel moment. Even for a jaded Gazetteer like me

    You hike for three hours over Vatnajokull - one of the biggest glaciers in the world. You descend intense Mordor slopes of black volcanic scree. You are plunged into the emerald and crystal chasm of the ice cave. Where you gaze at clearly frozen time.

    Then you hike back to the Glacier Lagoon where you have hot chocolate laced with Brennivin and superb lobster soup as you gaze with utterly contented exhaustion at the toppling icebergs

    Bliss

    Just a shame that a guided tour with your hand held the whole way isn't real travel, eh?

    Not sure they allow peculiar and solitary men with dogs down here. But you could give it a go








    You’re just being led down there and baby fed, so you can write it up to encourage the rest of us to make the trip properly. So I suggest that you do your job and find out.
    "Properly" = no guide.

    Darwinism.
    I’d expect that most of us know that much of the challenge, and joy, of travel is finding yourself in an unfamiliar environment and working out how to cope with all the challenges that throws at you, and enjoy where you are. Looking for someone at the airport holding up a piece of paper with your name on it, and then following them about for a week, is a pale imitation.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,789

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/nov/02/channel-4s-40-best-shows-ranked

    Wow, Channel 4 really has made a lot of great TV. I'm surprised how many of these I've watched. Number 1 is controversial but fair, probably.

    They certainly have had some great shows in the past. Not sure I agree with all that list, especially not number 1 (it wasn't even original, the Dutch came up with it), but there were some good ones there, but what's interesting skimming that list is how their halcyon days seem to have been the 90s to early 2000s.

    The BBC's fans love to play on its past, with shows like Monty Python etc, but its best days were the 60s-80s it seems, but even Channel 4 is very dated now.

    One of the most modern creations on the list is 2013's Gogglebox. Only 3 of the 40 shows began after 2013.

    Broadcast TV channels aren't coping/competing with modern streaming services and that goes for C4 just as much as the Beeb.
    When I first heard of Gogglebox (before it was transmitted) I thought 'What, who the hell is going to watch that? Talk about dumb downed TV' How wrong could I be. It is a great concept..

    GBH was one of my favourites.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I had to use Cisco WebEx last week.

    There are few better arguments for in person meetings.

    WebEx truly is the Radiohead of remote conferencing platforms
    Steep learning curve, but utterly brilliant for its devotees ?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Selebian said:

    'Levelling up' is dangerous ground for Sunak, given that video of him trumpeting unlevelling up the already high...

    That’s not actually what he was saying in the video. But Labour had artfully cut the video to mislead.

    He was saying that all deprived areas need support - including deprived rural areas in Kent - not just deprived urban areas
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    SKS's only problem with the deportation of asylum seekers to Rwanda is that not enough have been deported yet and it might be a bit pricey FFS

    You've just made that up.
    I am against deportation

    Is SKS?
    YES
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    Fuck the Victoria Line. TFL need to figure out how to cool it down, the trains are still carrying the heat of the summer and it's November for fucks sake. I think it's actually approaching dangerous levels of heat, they need to figure out ASAP.
This discussion has been closed.