The Tories messed up both recent leadership elections. The first one was far too long in terms of the time it took, and this one was far too short. Overcorrection.
Why too short? It's an emergency situation, and they all know each other.
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
This is the dullest argument being made on PB. You are more than welcome to say the Labour Party are a load of ****, but this criticism is nonsense.
I've been away the last week, so not posted here, but how do we feel about the person who lost six weeks ago in a membership vote now being anointed as PM - will the Tory membership be happy?
Sod the Tory membership. They have played a large part in this mess.
I mean, if the Tory party is concerned about winning elections and its longevity, alienating the membership is not great.
No. The Tory party needs to appeal to the general public and speak to their desires and needs.
Membership and internal debate should be encouraged but members cannot expect the party to always march to their tune. It is part of the broad church nature of our political parties that some compromise is required.
I've been away the last week, so not posted here, but how do we feel about the person who lost six weeks ago in a membership vote now being anointed as PM - will the Tory membership be happy?
I've been away the last week, so not posted here, but how do we feel about the person who lost six weeks ago in a membership vote now being anointed as PM - will the Tory membership be happy?
I've been away the last week, so not posted here, but how do we feel about the person who lost six weeks ago in a membership vote now being anointed as PM - will the Tory membership be happy?
Hopefully this will result in all of the racist members leaving like that idiot on LBC yesterday. People like that are a disgrace to the party and have no place in it.
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
This is the dullest argument being made on PB. You are more than welcome to say the Labour Party are a load of ****, but this criticism is nonsense.
It does look odd though doesn't it? Labour's not even had a female leader yet?
Just under an hour to go until Sunak gets it by coronation.
Gutted to miss out on the £5000, but will take that as a moral, Pyrrhic victory.
Hopefully Sunak has learned that increasing National Insurance was a mistake and won't do that again.
Hopefully Sunak takes a balanced overview and doesn't listen to obsessive lobbyists.
Everything needs to go up. Sadly.
If everything needs to go up, then start with Income Tax, which is paid by everyone, rather than NI which is only paid by those who work.
There is no justification slashing Income Tax by 4p, while increasing NI, is there?
No there isn't. Either extend NI to all earned income, or increase Income Tax by N+4p and reduce NI by Np in the pound - where N is about 13.25 ;-)
Good start.
We could go further. Increase Income Tax by 9 above that and abolish 'student loan repayments'.
Everyone should pay the same rate of income tax. If you think that rate is too high for you, its too high for anyone else too.
It's funny how far apart we on most things but agree on that. Also, I believe, on the need to move away from taxing income towards taxing wealth.
I don't agree with taxing wealth, but do agree with taxing land, which amounts to much the same thing.
If I were in charge I'd start by increasing income tax by 22.25% and abolishing NI and Student Loans. Abolish Stamp Duty and Council Tax and replace with an annual Land Tax.
If there's a budget surplus, then we can start reducing income tax, for everyone uniformly.
You are a purveyor of the politics of envy. You are no better than Jeremy Corbyn. As I have said to you before, if you spent a little more time working, and a little less time writing politically and economically incoherent bollox on here, then maybe you could afford a few more of the things you are so jealous of other people for having.
Just under an hour to go until Sunak gets it by coronation.
Gutted to miss out on the £5000, but will take that as a moral, Pyrrhic victory.
Hopefully Sunak has learned that increasing National Insurance was a mistake and won't do that again.
Hopefully Sunak takes a balanced overview and doesn't listen to obsessive lobbyists.
Everything needs to go up. Sadly.
If everything needs to go up, then start with Income Tax, which is paid by everyone, rather than NI which is only paid by those who work.
There is no justification slashing Income Tax by 4p, while increasing NI, is there?
No there isn't. Either extend NI to all earned income, or increase Income Tax by N+4p and reduce NI by Np in the pound - where N is about 13.25 ;-)
Good start.
We could go further. Increase Income Tax by 9 above that and abolish 'student loan repayments'.
Everyone should pay the same rate of income tax. If you think that rate is too high for you, its too high for anyone else too.
It's funny how far apart we on most things but agree on that. Also, I believe, on the need to move away from taxing income towards taxing wealth.
I don't agree with taxing wealth, but do agree with taxing land, which amounts to much the same thing.
If I were in charge I'd start by increasing income tax by 22.25% and abolishing NI and Student Loans. Abolish Stamp Duty and Council Tax and replace with an annual Land Tax.
If there's a budget surplus, then we can start reducing income tax, for everyone uniformly.
"... increasing income tax by 22.25% and abolishing NI..."
That would be catastrophic of course. Truss levels of chaos.
You'd need to be careful increasing the tax on the 20% + 13.25% NI taxpayers. Your proposal would reduce the net income of that group by 15% at a stroke.
Not if they're young graduates. It wouldn't be a change at all if they're graduates, it would just bring everyone else up to the same level they're expected to pay. And if its good enough for them, why's it not for everyone else?
Of course it wouldn't need to go up that high if tax were fairly paid by everyone, so by expecting everyone to pay their own share we'd have a lower tax rate for those currently getting shafted (eg young graduates) while those currently dodging tax (eg old graduates with a wealth of unearned income by now) pay their fair share.
What makes the income of old graduates "unearned?"
You are living proof that the politics of envy is a thing.
Amusing to see the parasites who want to evade tax that others are expected to pay lash out about "envy".
Suggesting that everyone should pay the same tax rate isn't a politics of "envy". Suggesting that others should pay tax, but not you, that is.
I imagine you pay very little tax, but not as a result of tax avoidance. Productivity avoidance is your way of achieving this sorry state.
Rajdeep Sardesai @sardesairajdeep Breaking: Rishi Sunak to be next British PM: a PM of Indian origin on Diwali day: a glass ceiling has been well and truly broken. Let’s celebrate diversity in Britain and yes, hopefully in India too! #RishiSunak
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
This is the dullest argument being made on PB. You are more than welcome to say the Labour Party are a load of ****, but this criticism is nonsense.
It's more something to bring out when someone does a Rupa Huq.
The Tories messed up both recent leadership elections. The first one was far too long in terms of the time it took, and this one was far too short. Overcorrection.
Why too short? It's an emergency situation, and they all know each other.
If only they'd done this last time...or at least, 50 nominations required. That would have lopped off Truss, Braverman, Badenoch, Hunt and Tugendhat on the fly leaving Sunak and Mordaunt as the choice for the members.
And OK Mordaunt wouldn't have been great but she would have been way better than this!
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
Second, if you count the Jewish Disraeli…meanwhile in Labour’s Diversity Drive they’ve got a leader from Kentish Town, not the more usual Islington.
I've been away the last week, so not posted here, but how do we feel about the person who lost six weeks ago in a membership vote now being anointed as PM - will the Tory membership be happy?
Sod the Tory membership. They have played a large part in this mess.
I mean, if the Tory party is concerned about winning elections and its longevity, alienating the membership is not great.
It depends which bit of it they alienate. If they just alienate those that have caused much of the problem and they leave, and then the party gravitates back to being a sensible right of centre business orientated party then that is an outcome that can only be positive.
I suspect Rishi's immediate challenge is dealing with the situation of the country rather than the internal politics.
We know who the vocal minority are who have been loudest about betrayal, but the breadth of people who switched to Sunak both before and after Boris dropped out - Bridgen, Baker, Braverman and even some of those not sharing the letter B with Boris - suggests that, even amongst a lot of those who clung to Johnson, there is some understanding and acceptance of why that happened.
That may endure for a little while, some months. In the longer term it is how shallow rooted that acceptance is and how the administration goes that will determine how fractious the party is.
But, it's perfectly possible that Dorries et al will be an isolated bunch just howling at the moon like the Corbynites they mirror.
Hopefully this will result in all of the racist members leaving like that idiot on LBC yesterday. People like that are a disgrace to the party and have no place in it.
They had an old f***wit on 5live earlier, they tend to be "I'm not racist, but Richi betrayed Boris and is unfit for office...". All these people should **** off whatever their party stripe.
My Indian colleagues are referring to this as a reverse takeover....
Sunak was born in the UK not India even if he has Indian heritage
That was not intended to be anti-Indian - my Indian colleagues are very happy about it
Strangely, I feel an small twinge of pride that my country can elect a Hindu of Asian heritage to its highest office. What's more, nobody is making too much fuss about it.
Neat takeover of No10 by the almost-billionaire, starting in July when he resigned from the government.
He could never have won a membership vote, but it turned out there was another route.
Questions include
1. Will someone (Banksy?) put the money up to split the Tory party? (Recall Malcolm Pearson meeting Tommy Robinson in the HoL.)
2. Did Sunak try to become a scholar at Winchester, or did he think that becoming anything other than a commoner was beyond his grasp? (What do you reckon, @Boulay? )
3. What will the Daily Mail say about the Sunak administration's imminent (Halloween) budget, or will the entire media perhaps call it Hunt's statement? (Recall the Daily Mail's joyous applause for the Truss and Kwarteng budget.)
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
This is the dullest argument being made on PB. You are more than welcome to say the Labour Party are a load of ****, but this criticism is nonsense.
Indeed, the stale, pale, male Labour leadership can easily pass a motion with the brothers stating they are the absolute boys of diversity. Simple.
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
The Tories have had as many Prime Ministers in less than seven years as Labour have had in more than eight decades, so the sample sizes are different.
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
This is the dullest argument being made on PB. You are more than welcome to say the Labour Party are a load of ****, but this criticism is nonsense.
Indeed, the stale, pale, male Labour leadership can easily pass a motion with the brothers stating they are the absolute boys of diversity. Simple.
Shush. You know any criticism of Labour or their sainted Leader is heresy on this site.
I've been away the last week, so not posted here, but how do we feel about the person who lost six weeks ago in a membership vote now being anointed as PM - will the Tory membership be happy?
Sod the Tory membership. They have played a large part in this mess.
I mean, if the Tory party is concerned about winning elections and its longevity, alienating the membership is not great.
The point here is that the Conservative party membership should not be electing the leader on a "one person one vote" system. Particularly not if the party is already in government. Liz Truss is the embodiment of how dysfunctional such a system can be. Some people may leave in frustration. But others will join. People were members of the Conservative party long before the idea was planted that members have a right to choose the leader.
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
This is the dullest argument being made on PB. You are more than welcome to say the Labour Party are a load of ****, but this criticism is nonsense.
It does look odd though doesn't it? Labour's not even had a female leader yet?
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
The Tories have had as many Prime Ministers in less than seven years as Labour have had in more than eight decades, so the sample sizes are different.
Labour have only switched leader while in office twice in the last fifty years.
The Conservatives have switched leader in office twice in the last fifty days.
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
This is the dullest argument being made on PB. You are more than welcome to say the Labour Party are a load of ****, but this criticism is nonsense.
It does look odd though doesn't it? Labour's not even had a female leader yet?
It's irrelevant. Are Labour competent or incompetent? That is the only question you, and I, need to ponder.
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
This is the dullest argument being made on PB. You are more than welcome to say the Labour Party are a load of ****, but this criticism is nonsense.
It's nonsense to point out that for all Labour's playing of identity politics, their leader is always a white man, usually from North London? And yo use this as a criticism of the utility of identity politics?
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
The Tories have had as many Prime Ministers in less than seven years as Labour have had in more than eight decades, so the sample sizes are different.
Labour have had 19 permanent leaders, excluding acting leaders.
How many of those 19 were non-white or female? From a party that claims to care about "identity" "representation".
I think one may legitimately now open the vintage champagne which was awaiting the end of the Boris premiership, but which had to be kept in the cellar in view of the Truss premiership.
The next polls will be interesting to see if there is an immediate bounce. I suspect there will be. Questions are, how big and how long?
Very anecdotal, I know, but I now feel able to support the Conservatives, and it was only a few months ago that I was genuinely thinking of voting Labour for the first time ever. I suspect the Tories will lose quite a few on the populist far right that loved The Clown, but I think it Sunak can pull a decent team around him he has a real prospect of blunting the Labour advance. If he gets some luck on his side then things might change and lots of people might be saying "SKS fans please explain" 🤣🤣🤣
"King Charles will return to London from Sandringham, and will be in Buckingham Palace this evening, ITV’s Chris Ship reports. That means he could accept Liz Truss’s resignation and appoint Rishi Sunak as PM tonight."
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
The Tories have had as many Prime Ministers in less than seven years as Labour have had in more than eight decades, so the sample sizes are different.
Since the war, the Tories have had 15 leaders to Labour's 12.
When Cameron and Corbyn were leaders, the score was 11-11.
Pernickety point - but does that include George Brown, Beckett and Harman?
Has anyone told him Rish! is safe for 12 months (like Truss was!)
Bridgen
(a) supported Rishi (b) said the ERG should stay out of this leadership election and had cocked it up (c) is clearly humouring his former fellow troublemakers
He's clearly regenerated and I'm warming to this incarnation Andrew Bridgen, lord help me.
Neat takeover of No10 by the almost-billionaire, starting in July when he resigned from the government.
He could never have won a membership vote, but it turned out there was another route.
Questions include
1. Will someone (Banksy?) put the money up to split the Tory party? (Recall Malcolm Pearson meeting Tommy Robinson in the HoL.)
2. Did Sunak try to become a scholar at Winchester, or did he think that becoming anything other than a commoner was beyond his grasp? (What do you reckon, @Boulay? )
3. What will the Daily Mail say about the Sunak administration's imminent (Halloween) budget, or will the entire media perhaps call it Hunt's statement? (Recall the Daily Mail's joyous applause for the Truss and Kwarteng budget.)
You don’t want to be a scholar, Dynamo, otherwise you turn out like Marcus Fysh.
So the Conservative Party has given us three female Prime Ministers (least said about the final two the better mind ) and now the the first ethnic minority Prime Minister.
Labour meanwhile... ?
This is the dullest argument being made on PB. You are more than welcome to say the Labour Party are a load of ****, but this criticism is nonsense.
It does look odd though doesn't it? Labour's not even had a female leader yet?
It's irrelevant. Are Labour competent or incompetent? That is the only question you, and I, need to ponder.
The Conservative party achieved diversity at leadership level without changing the rules to push women/BAME candidates forward. However, Labour have pushed women /BAME candidates forward, through lists, quotas etc. It may be just that the Conservative system is better at bringing finding talented politicians capable of doing the high level jobs.
If I'm not very much mistaken, it was Cameron that did change the rules to bring less conventional Tory candidates forward, with his "selection A-list".
Comments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48497953
Membership and internal debate should be encouraged but members cannot expect the party to always march to their tune. It is part of the broad church nature of our political parties that some compromise is required.
@sardesairajdeep
Breaking: Rishi Sunak to be next British PM: a PM of Indian origin on Diwali day: a glass ceiling has been well and truly broken. Let’s celebrate diversity in Britain and yes, hopefully in India too! #RishiSunak
https://twitter.com/sardesairajdeep/status/1584535484021477378
And OK Mordaunt wouldn't have been great but she would have been way better than this!
“I’m off to get that letter in”.
https://order-order.com/quote/bridgen-reacts-to-new-pm-rishi/
He's finally learned to write.
Congratulations are in order.
We know who the vocal minority are who have been loudest about betrayal, but the breadth of people who switched to Sunak both before and after Boris dropped out - Bridgen, Baker, Braverman and even some of those not sharing the letter B with Boris - suggests that, even amongst a lot of those who clung to Johnson, there is some understanding and acceptance of why that happened.
That may endure for a little while, some months. In the longer term it is how shallow rooted that acceptance is and how the administration goes that will determine how fractious the party is.
But, it's perfectly possible that Dorries et al will be an isolated bunch just howling at the moon like the Corbynites they mirror.
Nice.
He could never have won a membership vote, but it turned out there was another route.
Questions include
1. Will someone (Banksy?) put the money up to split the Tory party? (Recall Malcolm Pearson meeting Tommy Robinson in the HoL.)
2. Did Sunak try to become a scholar at Winchester, or did he think that becoming anything other than a commoner was beyond his grasp? (What do you reckon, @Boulay?
3. What will the Daily Mail say about the Sunak administration's imminent (Halloween) budget, or will the entire media perhaps call it Hunt's statement? (Recall the Daily Mail's joyous applause for the Truss and Kwarteng budget.)
The Conservatives have switched leader in office twice in the last fifty days.
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1584274031544766464
How many of those 19 were non-white or female? From a party that claims to care about "identity" "representation".
NEW THREAD
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/oct/24/uk-politics-live-rishi-sunak-penny-mordaunt-boris-johnson-withdrawal-nominations-deadline-tory-leadership-contest-race
(a) supported Rishi
(b) said the ERG should stay out of this leadership election and had cocked it up
(c) is clearly humouring his former fellow troublemakers
He's clearly regenerated and I'm warming to this incarnation Andrew Bridgen, lord help me.
You don’t want to be a scholar, Dynamo, otherwise you turn out like Marcus Fysh.
Now is the time for party unity and I congratulate
@RishiSunak
on his victory and will support his leadership.