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Penny for your thoughts – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited November 3 in General
Penny for your thoughts – politicalbetting.com

NEW: Penny Mordaunt is STAYING in the race says a source close to herShe sees a route to 100 nominations now Johnson is outShe wants the members to have their sayTune in tomorrow to see if she makes the ballot!https://t.co/41pbsdZjGL

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,124
    Another prediction: Oliver Dowden will return to Cabinet.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,410
    "Half of all primary schools in England are trying to feed children in poverty who are ineligible for free school meals because their parents’ income does not meet the threshold. But there are 800,000 of them. It can be hard sometimes to grasp the scale of the problem through bare statistics, but vivid and haunting details can flesh them out. Children are eating school rubbers to line their stomachs and dull the ache and nausea of hunger. Others are bringing in empty lunchboxes then pretending to dine on their phantom food away from classmates, too ashamed to reveal that they have nothing to eat."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/24/conservative-leadership-grownup-politics-poverty
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,410

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    I mean, yes obvs, but what is it this time?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,365
    JohnO said:

    Another prediction: Oliver Dowden will return to Cabinet.

    Do we really need more Cambridge-educated lawyers in public life? Especially David Cameron's ex-SpAd and presumed expert in negative campaigning?
  • What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    I mean, yes obvs, but what is it this time?
    This.


  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,930
    It’s odd how many parliamentarians don’t understand how parliamentary democracy works. Maybe it’s like how lots of doctors are overweight, smoking alcoholics.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,233

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    I mean, yes obvs, but what is it this time?
    This.


    What an ar*ehole.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,124

    JohnO said:

    Another prediction: Oliver Dowden will return to Cabinet.

    Do we really need more Cambridge-educated lawyers in public life? Especially David Cameron's ex-SpAd and presumed expert in negative campaigning?
    I’m just predicting….but to be fair to Dowden, he was the first senior Minister to resign on principle from Johnson’s government after the two by election defeats.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882
    edited October 24
    Good morning. It's a bright day. It's a new dawn. Rejoice!

    Hopefully now we will see the back of:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's endless drivel
    Nadine Dorries' deranged starry-eyed sycophancy
    Stanley Johnson telling the nation how wonderful his son is
    and
    Michael Fabricant's wig
    Bond villain Sir Richard Drax
    Sir Deadwood Leigh
    Christopher NoHope
    Peter Bonehead
    John Dreadwood
    Oh and for @TSE David Campbell-Bannerman
    etc. etc. ...

    but above all the wicked clown and arch LIAR IN CHIEF, Boris Johnson
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,927
    Of course IF Penny gets 100 nominations then she would be in exactly the position Boris claimed he was in.

    Which was a position Boris said wasn't good enough to proceed as the Parliamentary Party wouldn't have been united behind his leadership.

    So per these "Boris requirements" Penny should not proceed even if she gets 100 nominations.

    Now we know Boris almost certainly didn't have 100 nominations - but the above logic still stands.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882
    @TSE I think you are absolutely right about the 2023 General Election tip. It looks like a good bet to me and I'm on.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,453

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    I mean, duh.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,204
    Who are 'Boris Johnsons supporters' who are going to 'cause trouble'?
    The only one we ever seem to hear from is Nadine Dorries, who does not come across as a leader, more an eccentric political loner.
    I would guess we will see dissent in the Parliamentary party but Sunak will probably lead more by consensus than his two predecessors who both pursued quite divisive agendas making a forced 2023 GE less likely.
    I think the size of the Conservative majority means that the government will limp on until 2024, the odds are about right.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882
    edited October 24
    moonshine said:

    It’s odd how many parliamentarians don’t understand how parliamentary democracy works. Maybe it’s like how lots of doctors are overweight, smoking alcoholics.

    You mean re the General Election?

    In terms of the constitution, you're correct.

    However, I think the clamour for a General Election next year, including from those on the right of the Conservative Party, will grow. They have the capability to make Sunak's reign ungovernable and after an initial phoney peace, I expect them to begin exercising their revenge.

    The British Constitution sort-of operates on a fair play basis. Johnson was the last person to understand, let alone follow, that. But most decent people do and there are quite a few moral and ethical reasons why there should be an election next year.

    Spring 2023 before the Coronation? Otherwise it gets tricky as we can't have a campaign with that event but June would still be possible.
  • Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,807
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Another prediction: Oliver Dowden will return to Cabinet.

    Do we really need more Cambridge-educated lawyers in public life? Especially David Cameron's ex-SpAd and presumed expert in negative campaigning?
    I’m just predicting….but to be fair to Dowden, he was the first senior Minister to resign on principle from Johnson’s government after the two by election defeats.
    I never thought he came across that well on the media, but he’s a titan compared to some we’ve had to endure since.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,807
    Spare a thought for the Tory activists who have spent the weekend frantically trying to set Boris-loving grannies up with email addresses…

    What a shame.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,670
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: despite the first safety car since 2015 making my bet red, did find the race pretty entertaining. Shame for Vettel his pit stop ruined what had been a most promising position.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,365
    darkage said:

    Who are 'Boris Johnsons supporters' who are going to 'cause trouble'?
    The only one we ever seem to hear from is Nadine Dorries, who does not come across as a leader, more an eccentric political loner.
    I would guess we will see dissent in the Parliamentary party but Sunak will probably lead more by consensus than his two predecessors who both pursued quite divisive agendas making a forced 2023 GE less likely.
    I think the size of the Conservative majority means that the government will limp on until 2024, the odds are about right.

    It would be a wise precaution for Rishi (or Penny) to keep a couple of tame ERG types in Cabinet, to act as human shields (as indeed Boris did). We might not have seen the last of Jacob Rees-Mogg. A thought to cheer the nation!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,353
    Heathener said:

    Good morning. It's a bright day. It's a new dawn. Rejoice!

    Hopefully now we will see the back of:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's endless drivel
    Nadine Dorries' deranged starry-eyed sycophancy
    Stanley Johnson telling the nation how wonderful his son is
    and
    Michael Fabricant's wig
    Bond villain Sir Richard Drax
    Sir Deadwood Leigh
    Christopher NoHope
    Peter Bonehead
    John Dreadwood
    Oh and for @TSE David Campbell-Bannerman
    etc. etc. ...

    but above all the wicked clown and arch LIAR IN CHIEF, Boris Johnson

    They'll be back.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,044
    What are the chances of Penny reaching 100 signatures?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,977
    In taking this difficult decision last night @BorisJohnson has put country before party, and party before self. He worked to secure the mandate and the majority we now enjoy.

    We should put it to good use, and I know he will work with us to do so.


    https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1584423576848867328
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882
    Right I'm on 2023.

    Decent enough odds to make it attractive.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,353
    IanB2 said:

    Spare a thought for the Tory activists who have spent the weekend frantically trying to set Boris-loving grannies up with email addresses…

    What a shame.

    Boris-loving grannies must be a Pornhub category surely?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,927
    edited October 24
    After Boris withdrew last night, Rishi gained nine MPs and Penny one MP.

    Now this morning we have just had the first new declaration of the day - Alex Burghart for Rishi.

    In terms of MPs who have switched from Boris - Rishi has gained six and Penny one.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620
    MikeL said:

    Of course IF Penny gets 100 nominations then she would be in exactly the position Boris claimed he was in.

    Which was a position Boris said wasn't good enough to proceed as the Parliamentary Party wouldn't have been united behind his leadership.

    So per these "Boris requirements" Penny should not proceed even if she gets 100 nominations.

    Now we know Boris almost certainly didn't have 100 nominations - but the above logic still stands.

    Penny doesn't have the standards committee etc hanging over her, so not quite the same as Johnson. I expect that she will be out today though.

    So we enter the Sunak era, probably the least worse option for the Tories.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882
    I'm not totally sure what prompted Krishnan Guru-Murthy's c-bomb but I quite admire Steve Baker. I dislike his religious views but I have a respect for them and him. What ever K G-M thinks, Baker does seem to have integrity in there and he was one of those on the right who saw Boris Johnson for the lying sack of shit that he is.

    I hope Rishi keeps him on board.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,176
    MikeL said:

    After Boris withdrew last night, Rishi gained nine MPs and Penny one MP.

    Now this morning we have just had the first new declaration of the day - Alex Burghart for Rishi.

    In terms of MPs who have switched from Boris - Rishi has gained six and Penny one.

    6.5 hours left.

    Not looking great for her, is it?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882
    darkage said:

    Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0

    [...] But Braverman actually believes in deporting people to Rwanda. [...].
    DREAMS of it indeed :(
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,807
    edited October 24
    darkage said:

    Who are 'Boris Johnsons supporters' who are going to 'cause trouble'?
    The only one we ever seem to hear from is Nadine Dorries, who does not come across as a leader, more an eccentric political loner.
    I would guess we will see dissent in the Parliamentary party but Sunak will probably lead more by consensus than his two predecessors who both pursued quite divisive agendas making a forced 2023 GE less likely.
    I think the size of the Conservative majority means that the government will limp on until 2024, the odds are about right.

    It’s hard to see why the Tories would want to go earlier than 2024, and elections don’t happen just because people are calling for one.

    Meanwhile, Johnson must have imagined for at least 24 hours or so that he was just days away from moving back into number ten and resuming his old ways. Now he slinks away with nothing. He’s going to be insufferable at home and Carrie might be wise to consider booking a long stay at a spa?

    With any luck it’ll be downhill all the way now for the clown - sensible Conservatives would be well advised to drive a stake through his heart at privileges committee to make absolutely sure he cannot return.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,044

    MikeL said:

    After Boris withdrew last night, Rishi gained nine MPs and Penny one MP.

    Now this morning we have just had the first new declaration of the day - Alex Burghart for Rishi.

    In terms of MPs who have switched from Boris - Rishi has gained six and Penny one.

    6.5 hours left.

    Not looking great for her, is it?
    Only 43% have declared for Rishi. That leaves a lot of MPs giving no preference so far. Maybe some of them are going to nominate but aren't interested in making it public beforehand.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819
    IanB2 said:

    Spare a thought for the Tory activists who have spent the weekend frantically trying to set Boris-loving grannies up with email addresses…

    What a shame.

    If they don’t have an email address it’s very likely they don’t have anything beyond a landline, most people I know without email have neither a broadband connection nor anything beyond the most basic mobile phone, because they’ve never really needed it.

    The voting method (online only) is utterly insane given the membership and a cheats charter
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620
    Happy Diwali to all.

    I wonder if Rishi will put his Diwali lights out tonight in Downing St.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    What the heck is Nadine doing?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,639

    In taking this difficult decision last night @BorisJohnson has put country before party, and party before self. He worked to secure the mandate and the majority we now enjoy.

    We should put it to good use, and I know he will work with us to do so.


    https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1584423576848867328

    “Us”.

    Interesting.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,807
    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Spare a thought for the Tory activists who have spent the weekend frantically trying to set Boris-loving grannies up with email addresses…

    What a shame.

    If they don’t have an email address it’s very likely they don’t have anything beyond a landline, most people I know without email have neither a broadband connection nor anything beyond the most basic mobile phone, because they’ve never really needed it.

    The voting method (online only) is utterly insane given the membership and a cheats charter
    The impossibility and illogicality of it within the timescale, and the clear hints from Brady that it was unlikely to happen, were part of the jigsaw of the Tory hierarchy’s plan to manage toward a Sunak coronation.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392
    Taz said:

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    I mean, yes obvs, but what is it this time?
    This.


    What an ar*ehole.
    I don’t think he’s trying to be racist - I think he’s just calling Rishi a snake.

    Doesn’t mean you are incorrect though!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392
    Heathener said:

    Good morning. It's a bright day. It's a new dawn. Rejoice!

    Hopefully now we will see the back of:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's endless drivel
    Nadine Dorries' deranged starry-eyed sycophancy
    Stanley Johnson telling the nation how wonderful his son is
    and
    Michael Fabricant's wig
    Bond villain Sir Richard Drax
    Sir Deadwood Leigh
    Christopher NoHope
    Peter Bonehead
    John Dreadwood
    Oh and for @TSE David Campbell-Bannerman
    etc. etc. ...

    but above all the wicked clown and arch LIAR IN CHIEF, Boris Johnson

    To be fair to Stanley Johnson a Dad’s allowed to be proud of their kid. That’s at least forgiveable
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882

    Heathener said:

    Good morning. It's a bright day. It's a new dawn. Rejoice!

    Hopefully now we will see the back of:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's endless drivel
    Nadine Dorries' deranged starry-eyed sycophancy
    Stanley Johnson telling the nation how wonderful his son is
    and
    Michael Fabricant's wig
    Bond villain Sir Richard Drax
    Sir Deadwood Leigh
    Christopher NoHope
    Peter Bonehead
    John Dreadwood
    Oh and for @TSE David Campbell-Bannerman
    etc. etc. ...

    but above all the wicked clown and arch LIAR IN CHIEF, Boris Johnson

    To be fair to Stanley Johnson a Dad’s allowed to be proud of their kid. That’s at least forgiveable
    On national television though?

    Okay, I'll concede that you're right. ;)
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,410

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    I mean, yes obvs, but what is it this time?
    This.


    Whoa that's nuts.
    Asian taxi driver in Leeds this morning thinks Sunak will do a good job but face problems "because of the colour of his skin".
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392

    Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0

    Why are you so quick to believe an ally of Suella? Rishi isn’t going to appoint her Home Secretary. Why would he?

  • IanB2 said:

    Spare a thought for the Tory activists who have spent the weekend frantically trying to set Boris-loving grannies up with email addresses…

    What a shame.

    Boris-loving grannies must be a Pornhub category surely?
    What is this Pornhub you speak of?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,121
    edited October 24
    I think Penny will withdraw, 100 or no, but I suspect that she’ll hold off until very near to close of nominations, or just after, to avoid a situation where the Clown Fans suddenly see an opportunity and try and hassle her supporters to bounce BoZo onto the ballot.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,807

    Heathener said:

    Good morning. It's a bright day. It's a new dawn. Rejoice!

    Hopefully now we will see the back of:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's endless drivel
    Nadine Dorries' deranged starry-eyed sycophancy
    Stanley Johnson telling the nation how wonderful his son is
    and
    Michael Fabricant's wig
    Bond villain Sir Richard Drax
    Sir Deadwood Leigh
    Christopher NoHope
    Peter Bonehead
    John Dreadwood
    Oh and for @TSE David Campbell-Bannerman
    etc. etc. ...

    but above all the wicked clown and arch LIAR IN CHIEF, Boris Johnson

    To be fair to Stanley Johnson a Dad’s allowed to be proud of their kid. That’s at least forgiveable
    Yet his behaviour as husband and father is responsible for all that we have endured?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,639
    edited October 24
    Andy_JS said:

    MikeL said:

    After Boris withdrew last night, Rishi gained nine MPs and Penny one MP.

    Now this morning we have just had the first new declaration of the day - Alex Burghart for Rishi.

    In terms of MPs who have switched from Boris - Rishi has gained six and Penny one.

    6.5 hours left.

    Not looking great for her, is it?
    Only 43% have declared for Rishi. That leaves a lot of MPs giving no preference so far. Maybe some of them are going to nominate but aren't interested in making it public beforehand.
    If I was an anonymous backbencher I wouldn’t have publicly declared either. I’d have privately told then all they had my support and that I’d state it just as soon as I was back near a computer and had good phone signal on Monday. What a weekend I’d picked to go hill climbing, I’d say.

    My plan for a 1345 public statement today would have been all based on becoming junior minister for paper clips.
  • Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0

    Why are you so quick to believe an ally of Suella? Rishi isn’t going to appoint her Home Secretary. Why would he?

    He needs to keep the ERG onside.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    darkage said:

    Who are 'Boris Johnsons supporters' who are going to 'cause trouble'?
    The only one we ever seem to hear from is Nadine Dorries, who does not come across as a leader, more an eccentric political loner.
    I would guess we will see dissent in the Parliamentary party but Sunak will probably lead more by consensus than his two predecessors who both pursued quite divisive agendas making a forced 2023 GE less likely.
    I think the size of the Conservative majority means that the government will limp on until 2024, the odds are about right.

    Yes, I'm not inclined to wager cash on backing a prediction by the ridiculous Dorries either.

    Though TBF the odds are not ungenerous.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,204
    Heathener said:

    darkage said:

    Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0

    [...] But Braverman actually believes in deporting people to Rwanda. [...].
    DREAMS of it indeed :(
    Yes, she is completely out of her depth. People like Farage are far more careful with their language. She is being used by the Conservative party to boost their position with a certain type of voter, but is likely to be brutally discarded when she is no longer a net positive.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,121
    BBC suggesting the King is returning to London tonight, but Sunak might choose to go to the palace tomorrow so as not to have his Number 10 moment outside in the dark.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392
    biggles said:

    In taking this difficult decision last night @BorisJohnson has put country before party, and party before self. He worked to secure the mandate and the majority we now enjoy.

    We should put it to good use, and I know he will work with us to do so.


    https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1584423576848867328

    “Us”.

    Interesting.
    May be Penny is staying in to prevent any one opportunistically trying to hoover up the anti-Rishi votes?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286

    Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0

    If he reappoints her, yes.
    If he's any sense, he won't.

    He's going to have to toss the odd bone to that wing of the party, though.
    Something for Baker, perhaps ?
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819

    BBC suggesting the King is returning to London tonight, but Sunak might choose to go to the palace tomorrow so as not to have his Number 10 moment outside in the dark.

    Why? It’s all going to be over by 2:15 at the latest which leaves 3 hours of daylight
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,121
    eek said:

    BBC suggesting the King is returning to London tonight, but Sunak might choose to go to the palace tomorrow so as not to have his Number 10 moment outside in the dark.

    Why? It’s all going to be over by 2:15 at the latest which leaves 3 hours of daylight
    Because Charles isn’t in London until later, apparently.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Good morning. It's a bright day. It's a new dawn. Rejoice!

    Hopefully now we will see the back of:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's endless drivel
    Nadine Dorries' deranged starry-eyed sycophancy
    Stanley Johnson telling the nation how wonderful his son is
    and
    Michael Fabricant's wig
    Bond villain Sir Richard Drax
    Sir Deadwood Leigh
    Christopher NoHope
    Peter Bonehead
    John Dreadwood
    Oh and for @TSE David Campbell-Bannerman
    etc. etc. ...

    but above all the wicked clown and arch LIAR IN CHIEF, Boris Johnson

    To be fair to Stanley Johnson a Dad’s allowed to be proud of their kid. That’s at least forgiveable
    Yet his behaviour as husband and father is responsible for all that we have endured?
    I’m sure Boris will appreciate you absolving him of any culpability.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Tory donor Guy Hands, asked by @BBCr4today if the Tory party is fit the run the country: "No."

    He says problem is not just the last 6 weeks, it's the last 6 years, including badly negotiated Brexit deal.

    Warns IMF bailout now possible.

    Hands said poverty was rising up the income scale, not least with many mortgage holders set to get hit in coming months/yrs.

    Says the UK is unattractive to investors + returning to reputation as 'the sick man of Europe'.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1584430166897745921
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,855

    Taz said:

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    I mean, yes obvs, but what is it this time?
    This.


    What an ar*ehole.
    I don’t think he’s trying to be racist - I think he’s just calling Rishi a snake.

    Doesn’t mean you are incorrect though!
    He's not trying very hard to not be racist though.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620

    BBC suggesting the King is returning to London tonight, but Sunak might choose to go to the palace tomorrow so as not to have his Number 10 moment outside in the dark.

    Light in the darkness symbolising the triumph over evil is the theme of Diwali, so very apposite.

    Tuesday is the partial solar eclipse. Very inauspicious in Hindu astrology.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392

    Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0

    Why are you so quick to believe an ally of Suella? Rishi isn’t going to appoint her Home Secretary. Why would he?

    He needs to keep the ERG onside.
    Baker.

    All the noise about Suella is just her trying to pretend she’s a big beast. Note to the editor: she isn’t. She’s insaneballs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    What the heck is Nadine doing?
    The usual.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,300
    Heathener said:

    Unpopular this may be but we NEED immigration. Brexit and covid drove away workers who helped our country function. Right now there's a labour shortage.

    It goes deeper than that. Whatever some nasty white Brits might like to believe, this country has been an island nation with an outward facing attitude. For good or ill we have been a global nation, not an insular one. This country has benefitted phenomenally from the rich legacy of that outlook, right down to having our first Asian heritage Prime Minister.

    I celebrate that fact. We all should.

    The reason immigration is unpopular isn't the "furriners", it's the infrastructure.

    Yes, you're right. Britain needs immigration, we're an ageing population and we need young people to wipe bottoms, and we need people to do the jobs us Brits are either too lazy or feckless or simply think it's beneath us to do.

    The problem is we also need the infrastructure support that immigration. We need new houses built. New schools. New hospitals. People see expanding class sizes, inability to get a GP's appointment for weeks, rents going up and up and semi-correctly diagnose immigration as the problem. The problem isn't the immigration, it's the lack of infrastructure to keep up with immigration.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855
    Foxy said:

    BBC suggesting the King is returning to London tonight, but Sunak might choose to go to the palace tomorrow so as not to have his Number 10 moment outside in the dark.

    Light in the darkness symbolising the triumph over evil is the theme of Diwali, so very apposite.

    Tuesday is the partial solar eclipse. Very inauspicious in Hindu astrology.
    Couldn’t he compromise by having Downing Street lit up with candles for Diwali?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392

    BBC suggesting the King is returning to London tonight, but Sunak might choose to go to the palace tomorrow so as not to have his Number 10 moment outside in the dark.

    Wasn’t that posted on the last thread as a comment? Which came first?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,121
    edited October 24
    I think Rishi will have learned from the Truss cabinet debacle. As such I think we’re likely to see ministers drawn from all wings of the party. Unfortunately I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cruella back in some capacity.

    My big wish is for JRM to be gone.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,176
    Andy_JS said:

    MikeL said:

    After Boris withdrew last night, Rishi gained nine MPs and Penny one MP.

    Now this morning we have just had the first new declaration of the day - Alex Burghart for Rishi.

    In terms of MPs who have switched from Boris - Rishi has gained six and Penny one.

    6.5 hours left.

    Not looking great for her, is it?
    Only 43% have declared for Rishi. That leaves a lot of MPs giving no preference so far. Maybe some of them are going to nominate but aren't interested in making it public beforehand.
    It doesn't work that way.

    If she's going to run she needs nominations. And if she has nominations they aren't kept secret.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392
    Scott_xP said:

    Tory donor Guy Hands, asked by @BBCr4today if the Tory party is fit the run the country: "No."

    He says problem is not just the last 6 weeks, it's the last 6 years, including badly negotiated Brexit deal.

    Warns IMF bailout now possible.

    Hands said poverty was rising up the income scale, not least with many mortgage holders set to get hit in coming months/yrs.

    Says the UK is unattractive to investors + returning to reputation as 'the sick man of Europe'.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1584430166897745921

    That would be the Guy Hands who made such a great job of running EMI… Four Seasons… Terra Firma…


  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,121

    BBC suggesting the King is returning to London tonight, but Sunak might choose to go to the palace tomorrow so as not to have his Number 10 moment outside in the dark.

    Wasn’t that posted on the last thread as a comment? Which came first?
    I don’t know, was just reporting what I heard.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,839
    Heathener said:

    Unpopular this may be but we NEED immigration. Brexit and covid drove away workers who helped our country function. Right now there's a labour shortage.

    It goes deeper than that. Whatever some nasty white Brits might like to believe, this country has been an island nation with an outward facing attitude. For good or ill we have been a global nation, not an insular one. This country has benefitted phenomenally from the rich legacy of that outlook, right down to having our first Asian heritage Prime Minister.

    I celebrate that fact. We all should.

    Up to a point.
    We need immigration of skilled individuals who don't hate us.
    And while population decline would be bad news, the unprecedented population expolsion of the past 25 years has also brought a lot of challenges and is not sustainable.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392
    kamski said:

    Taz said:

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    I mean, yes obvs, but what is it this time?
    This.


    What an ar*ehole.
    I don’t think he’s trying to be racist - I think he’s just calling Rishi a snake.

    Doesn’t mean you are incorrect though!
    He's not trying very hard to not be racist though.
    May be he’s just not very bright?

    If I thought someone was a snake I’d call them a snake. I wouldn’t stop to consider the colour of their skin

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Tory MPs are set to hand Rishi Sunak the keys to No 10 without him saying a single word about how he’d govern.

    Little wonder he’s dodging scrutiny: he’s so dire that just a few weeks ago he was trounced by Liz Truss. 🥬

    No mandate. No one voted for this.
    #GeneralElectionNow

    https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1584431842471530496
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    Scott_xP said:

    Tory donor Guy Hands, asked by @BBCr4today if the Tory party is fit the run the country: "No."

    He says problem is not just the last 6 weeks, it's the last 6 years, including badly negotiated Brexit deal.

    Warns IMF bailout now possible.

    Hands said poverty was rising up the income scale, not least with many mortgage holders set to get hit in coming months/yrs.

    Says the UK is unattractive to investors + returning to reputation as 'the sick man of Europe'.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1584430166897745921

    Not sure the opinions of an LBO merchant are of particular relevance when it comes to 'investment' in the UK economy.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,695
    The JRM test (out = moving on more sensibly; in = more of the bonkers) has morphed into the Braverman test with the same parameters.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620
    edited October 24
    Cookie said:

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    I mean, yes obvs, but what is it this time?
    This.


    Whoa that's nuts.
    Asian taxi driver in Leeds this morning thinks Sunak will do a good job but face problems "because of the colour of his skin".
    He may face one or two.
    But I think he will face far fewer problems from his skin colour than some suspect.
    The number of people in this country who are reflexively prejudiced because of skin colour is vanishingly small.
    The number of people who are reflexively prejudiced because of someone's cultural appearance - for example, beard-without-moustache or hijab - is rather larger, though most of those people will thej internally correct themselves. But Rishi doesn't fall into that category. Withthe minor exception of the teetotalism, Rishi looks entirely British. He is culturally unthreatening.
    East African Asians like the Sunaks do tend to integrate very well, partly through being more middle class, but also from having lived as a minority community before migrating. I don't think racism will be a big problem for him.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286

    Scott_xP said:

    Tory donor Guy Hands, asked by @BBCr4today if the Tory party is fit the run the country: "No."

    He says problem is not just the last 6 weeks, it's the last 6 years, including badly negotiated Brexit deal.

    Warns IMF bailout now possible.

    Hands said poverty was rising up the income scale, not least with many mortgage holders set to get hit in coming months/yrs.

    Says the UK is unattractive to investors + returning to reputation as 'the sick man of Europe'.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1584430166897745921

    That would be the Guy Hands who made such a great job of running EMI… Four Seasons… Terra Firma…

    He made a lot of money along the way, of course.

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,300

    Scott_xP said:

    Tory donor Guy Hands, asked by @BBCr4today if the Tory party is fit the run the country: "No."

    He says problem is not just the last 6 weeks, it's the last 6 years, including badly negotiated Brexit deal.

    Warns IMF bailout now possible.

    Hands said poverty was rising up the income scale, not least with many mortgage holders set to get hit in coming months/yrs.

    Says the UK is unattractive to investors + returning to reputation as 'the sick man of Europe'.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1584430166897745921

    That would be the Guy Hands who made such a great job of running EMI… Four Seasons… Terra Firma…


    And who lives in an offshore tax haven.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,855
    If the conservatives have any sense, they will have an immediate vote of confidence in the commons to confirm the new PM.

    I think it should be a constitutional requirement when the PM changes. OK it would be mainly symbolic, but important to remind everyone that it is absolutely up to MPs (and not eg the membership of any political party) to choose the PM. And that is where any government's mandate comes from - from elected MPs. The "mandate" from members of a party (that Truss claimed to have) is bullshit, in terms of running the country.

    It would also offer any Conservative MPs who really believe that anyone except Johnson becoming PM is "Banana Republic 'democracy'" to stand up for what they believe in, and then lose the whip, if they have any guts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855
    edited October 24

    kamski said:

    Taz said:

    What an utter twat David Campbell-Bannerman is.

    I mean, yes obvs, but what is it this time?
    This.


    What an ar*ehole.
    I don’t think he’s trying to be racist - I think he’s just calling Rishi a snake.

    Doesn’t mean you are incorrect though!
    He's not trying very hard to not be racist though.
    May be he’s just not very bright?

    If I thought someone was a snake I’d call them a snake. I wouldn’t stop to consider the colour of their skin

    I wouldn’t call David Campbell-Bannerman a snake.

    It would be cruel, and nasty, and show prejudice against snakes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    Scott_xP said:

    Tory MPs are set to hand Rishi Sunak the keys to No 10 without him saying a single word about how he’d govern.

    Little wonder he’s dodging scrutiny: he’s so dire that just a few weeks ago he was trounced by Liz Truss. 🥬

    No mandate. No one voted for this.
    #GeneralElectionNow

    https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1584431842471530496

    Pretty feeble critique, given he spent months doing so over the summer.

    A better one is the pass the parcel habit the Tories have developed with the office of PM.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,882
    Cookie said:

    Heathener said:

    Unpopular this may be but we NEED immigration. Brexit and covid drove away workers who helped our country function. Right now there's a labour shortage.

    It goes deeper than that. Whatever some nasty white Brits might like to believe, this country has been an island nation with an outward facing attitude. For good or ill we have been a global nation, not an insular one. This country has benefitted phenomenally from the rich legacy of that outlook, right down to having our first Asian heritage Prime Minister.

    I celebrate that fact. We all should.

    Up to a point.
    We need immigration of skilled individuals who don't hate us.
    And while population decline would be bad news, the unprecedented population expolsion of the past 25 years has also brought a lot of challenges and is not sustainable.
    I don't know what makes you think those who come to this country hates us. Just a bizarre thing to write. Most of them love to be here and bring huge amounts of energy and work.

    And, no, we don't just need "skilled" immigration. We need people who are prepared to roll up their sleeves and pick the fruit, dig the potatoes on those dark winter mornings, mop the floors and clean the loos of our hotels, wait on tables etc.

    Sorry but your post is off-beam.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,855
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Tory MPs are set to hand Rishi Sunak the keys to No 10 without him saying a single word about how he’d govern.

    Little wonder he’s dodging scrutiny: he’s so dire that just a few weeks ago he was trounced by Liz Truss. 🥬

    No mandate. No one voted for this.
    #GeneralElectionNow

    https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1584431842471530496

    Pretty feeble critique, given he spent months doing so over the summer.

    A better one is the pass the parcel habit the Tories have developed with the office of PM.
    Although I wonder how Angela Rayner feels about being on the same side as Nadine Dorries and Rees-Mogg?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    Only fair to report that one of the worst genocide propagandists on Russian TV might have been been sacked.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1584422464276529152
    RT has suspended presenter Anton Krasovsky for genocidal hate speech against Ukrainians, which is kind of like the time Lemmy was kicked out of Hawkwind for doing too many drugs
  • Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0

    Why are you so quick to believe an ally of Suella? Rishi isn’t going to appoint her Home Secretary. Why would he?

    He doesn't need to. He is in a strong position.
  • IanB2 said:

    darkage said:

    Who are 'Boris Johnsons supporters' who are going to 'cause trouble'?
    The only one we ever seem to hear from is Nadine Dorries, who does not come across as a leader, more an eccentric political loner.
    I would guess we will see dissent in the Parliamentary party but Sunak will probably lead more by consensus than his two predecessors who both pursued quite divisive agendas making a forced 2023 GE less likely.
    I think the size of the Conservative majority means that the government will limp on until 2024, the odds are about right.

    It’s hard to see why the Tories would want to go earlier than 2024, and elections don’t happen just because people are calling for one.

    Meanwhile, Johnson must have imagined for at least 24 hours or so that he was just days away from moving back into number ten and resuming his old ways. Now he slinks away with nothing. He’s going to be insufferable at home and Carrie might be wise to consider booking a long stay at a spa?

    With any luck it’ll be downhill all the way now for the clown - sensible Conservatives would be well advised to drive a stake through his heart at privileges committee to make absolutely sure he cannot return.
    The 2023 scenario is simple. Sunak has no mandate, is implementing swinging austerity cuts, has to preside over a winter that may be cold and dark, and is very likely to face endless sniping from the loony right of the party who think he is a backstabbing remainer. An election because they don't have a working majority is the end of this scenario.

    Lets see how Sunak fills his government. He will have to put *some* ERG-types in. I assume Baker will be one of them, but an awful lot of dross is getting flushed - they made *Gulles* a minister for education FFS.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,695
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Tory MPs are set to hand Rishi Sunak the keys to No 10 without him saying a single word about how he’d govern.

    Little wonder he’s dodging scrutiny: he’s so dire that just a few weeks ago he was trounced by Liz Truss. 🥬

    No mandate. No one voted for this.
    #GeneralElectionNow

    https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1584431842471530496

    Pretty feeble critique, given he spent months doing so over the summer.

    A better one is the pass the parcel habit the Tories have developed with the office of PM.
    It is quite amusing though. Endless leadership contest which ended in failure for Sunak as the membership chose another candidate then before you know it Sunak is pronounced PM.

    I mean I'm no fan of the Conservative Party or its members but if you were an anti-Sunak process driven party member you might be forgiven for being a tad miffed.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,807
    darkage said:

    Heathener said:

    darkage said:

    Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0

    [...] But Braverman actually believes in deporting people to Rwanda. [...].
    DREAMS of it indeed :(
    Yes, she is completely out of her depth. People like Farage are far more careful with their language. She is being used by the Conservative party to boost their position with a certain type of voter, but is likely to be brutally discarded when she is no longer a net positive.
    Another chance to watch a very recent great Commons moment that has been overlooked amid the PM crisis - well worth three minutes of your time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uevRdbeNBeQ
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,540
    Cookie said:

    Heathener said:

    Unpopular this may be but we NEED immigration. Brexit and covid drove away workers who helped our country function. Right now there's a labour shortage.

    It goes deeper than that. Whatever some nasty white Brits might like to believe, this country has been an island nation with an outward facing attitude. For good or ill we have been a global nation, not an insular one. This country has benefitted phenomenally from the rich legacy of that outlook, right down to having our first Asian heritage Prime Minister.

    I celebrate that fact. We all should.

    Up to a point.
    We need immigration of skilled individuals who don't hate us.
    And while population decline would be bad news, the unprecedented population expolsion of the past 25 years has also brought a lot of challenges and is not sustainable.
    Population decline, globally, is on its way. We could try to remain one of the few corners of the world with a growing population, but I think the demographic transition is coming for everywhere, eventually, so we may as well work out how to handle it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Nigelb said:

    Pretty feeble critique, given he spent months doing so over the summer.

    A better one is the pass the parcel habit the Tories have developed with the office of PM.

    Oh

    https://twitter.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1584436660472725505

    This is the reality of the economic chaos this Conservative government has brought.

    Bills up and family finances hit, and all the Tories want to do is keep handing round the job of PM like it’s a game of pass the parcel.

    We need a general election now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/oct/22/more-than-two-million-uk-households-are-in-debt-on-their-electricity-bills
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Tory donor Guy Hands, asked by @BBCr4today if the Tory party is fit the run the country: "No."

    He says problem is not just the last 6 weeks, it's the last 6 years, including badly negotiated Brexit deal.

    Warns IMF bailout now possible.

    Hands said poverty was rising up the income scale, not least with many mortgage holders set to get hit in coming months/yrs.

    Says the UK is unattractive to investors + returning to reputation as 'the sick man of Europe'.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1584430166897745921

    That would be the Guy Hands who made such a great job of running EMI… Four Seasons… Terra Firma…

    He made a lot of money along the way, of course.

    He made a lot on a couple of deals and paid himself handsomely. He then lost a vast amount of money for investors and can no longer raise a new fund because he’s just a bit shit at it.
  • Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0

    Why are you so quick to believe an ally of Suella? Rishi isn’t going to appoint her Home Secretary. Why would he?

    He needs to keep the ERG onside.
    He doesn't need to keep anybody onside.

    What are the malcontents going to do- trigger a GE? They can read the polls as well as you and I.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,286
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Tory MPs are set to hand Rishi Sunak the keys to No 10 without him saying a single word about how he’d govern.

    Little wonder he’s dodging scrutiny: he’s so dire that just a few weeks ago he was trounced by Liz Truss. 🥬

    No mandate. No one voted for this.
    #GeneralElectionNow

    https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1584431842471530496

    Pretty feeble critique, given he spent months doing so over the summer.

    A better one is the pass the parcel habit the Tories have developed with the office of PM.
    It is quite amusing though. Endless leadership contest which ended in failure for Sunak as the membership chose another candidate then before you know it Sunak is pronounced PM.

    I mean I'm no fan of the Conservative Party or its members but if you were an anti-Sunak process driven party member you might be forgiven for being a tad miffed.

    You'd also be a pretty rare beast.
    Process driven party members would never have gone for Johnson in the first place.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,392

    Ugh, Sunak's just as bad as Truss and Johnson.

    Braverman’s endorsement of Sunak surprised even some of her allies, with one speculating about whether she had been offered the chance to return as home secretary. “She wouldn’t have settled for much less,” said one.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-foes-hasten-to-end-the-only-show-in-town-in-tory-leadership-race-lm98q83k0

    Why are you so quick to believe an ally of Suella? Rishi isn’t going to appoint her Home Secretary. Why would he?

    He doesn't need to. He is in a strong position.
    I agree. My post was meant to be rhetorical.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,121
    edited October 24
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Tory MPs are set to hand Rishi Sunak the keys to No 10 without him saying a single word about how he’d govern.

    Little wonder he’s dodging scrutiny: he’s so dire that just a few weeks ago he was trounced by Liz Truss. 🥬

    No mandate. No one voted for this.
    #GeneralElectionNow

    https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1584431842471530496

    Pretty feeble critique, given he spent months doing so over the summer.

    A better one is the pass the parcel habit the Tories have developed with the office of PM.
    It is quite amusing though. Endless leadership contest which ended in failure for Sunak as the membership chose another candidate then before you know it Sunak is pronounced PM.

    I mean I'm no fan of the Conservative Party or its members but if you were an anti-Sunak process driven party member you might be forgiven for being a tad miffed.

    Honestly, sod them. They chose someone who it transpired didn’t have the skills needed to run the country last time so perfectly fair that MPs choose someone they have more faith in this time, particularly given that we are now in crisis in no small part because of Truss’ failings. It shouldn’t be the job of that narrow electorate to choose our PM when the Tories are in government.
This discussion has been closed.