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Is the regent about to become the monarch? – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,649
    edited October 2022
    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unpopular said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    On your first point, I'm inclined to agree although listening to Rory Stewart on the Rest is Politics earlier he relayed an exchange with a Tory MP who admonished him for constantly saying that MPs will do whatever they can to avoid a GE in order to cling onto their seats. The Tory MP claimed that many first time MPs were sick of the whole thing and wanted out. I'm not 100% convinced because there's a big difference between not wanting to do a job and imminently making yourself unemployed. However, it should certainly be factored into predictions.

    On your second, I reckon Starmer's very good at politics.
    For the average Tory redwall MP the £84,144 MPs salary is probably the most they have or will ever earn even if some Home Counties Tory MPs might be able to make more money outside
    No wealthy people in the 'red wall' then?
    Redwall seats have below the national average earnings and a below the national average median houseprice

    https://www.ft.com/content/48495b7f-b749-407b-9cfe-c1a34f6a9cf5
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280
    edited October 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    MP confuses Jeremy Hunt as the new Prime Minister https://twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/status/1581978417054220288/video/1

    Funny. But misleading that you don’t note it’s a parody
    DP was enjoyable today,. Steve Brine genuinely did slip (Edit: not sleep!) at one point and call Hunt PM and was gently ribbed for the remainder of the programme.

    But the ribbing, said Tominay was as nothing to, as she claimed, Liz Truss humanity's greatest bantermeister. (I'm not kidding).
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    Starmer is the best Labour leader since Tony Blair.
    That’s almost certainly true, though the competition isn’t that tough.

    Remarkably since Blair came to power Labour have had 4 leaders (Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer) and the Conservatives 7 (Hague, IDS, Howard, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and about to embark on an 8th).

    Starmer does seem to be someone who improves with time, and shows signs of learning from events. His authority has also slowly but surely grown in the party. Look how he’s mended the relationship with Angela Rayner so the two of them are now quite an effective double act.
    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.
    Fake news.
    It’s probably the best Labour front bench since late Blair.
    Would like to agree, but on what I've heard....Maybe I just happened to listen to the wrong ones.
    I used to be a profound Keir skeptic.
    I also used to be very suspicious of the Labour front bench.

    I’ve grudgingly changed my mind on both.

    Nandy, Streeting, Reeves, Phillipson, Lammy, Cooper, Ashworth…

    Add Bryant and Benn (potentially) and you have a high-calibre team.

    Rayner is not really my cup of tea, but I appreciate she reaches places others don’t.

    Starmer’s energy policy should highlight to anyone paying attention that he (and/or his team) have no idea whatsoever what they’re doing. That doesn’t mean he’ll be electorally unsuccessful, at least initially. But it is a clue as to how competent an administration he would likely run.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,614
    rcs1000 said:

    ihunt said:

    algarkirk said:

    pigeon said:

    FPT:


    I'd have no problem with the triple lock being swapped to finance higher defence spending.

    In fact, I'd view it as wholly appropriate.

    I agree however just 4 minutes ago.

    NEW: Cabinet Office Minister Brendan Clarke-Smith tells @JPonpolitics on @TimesRadio pensioners can breathe easily tonight on a their pensions being up-rated inline with with inflation:

    "We want to look after our pensioners. The triple lock was a manifesto commitment"


    https://twitter.com/HenryTribe/status/1582432983675703297
    Doesn’t mean they can't be taxed. (Or does it; I've never bothered to understand it)
    They could be but they won't. The Tories will never attack what they perceive as their client vote. At least I don't think they will. Hunt may prove me wrong in which case more power to him.

    What is daft is that there will be a significant portion of those pensioners and near pensioners who can look beyond their own self interest and realise their benefits come at the expense of their children and grandchildren. I actually think the smack back against any government who got rid of the triple lock or starting taxing pensioners would be no where near as bad as politicians and pundits think. I would love to be proved right on this but I doubt I will get the chance.
    As I wrote earlier, Dick, Hunt has a once in a generation opportunity to rid us of the Lock. I think he'll do it, but you may be right so I won't fall off my bathchair if he doesn't.
    Indeed. I do desperately want to be wrong about this and see a politician do something because it is the right thing to do for the country rather even though they think it will be politically damaging to them. Hunt, for all the criticism directed at him in the past, might be the person to grasp this rare opportunity.

    Who knows, he might even get to like the idea and start taking some more of the electorally damaging but correct decisions for the long term good of the country.
    In this discussion Hunt is being assigned agency he does not have. There are not the votes in the Commons to remove the triple lock. Labour will vote against as would at least 50 Tory MPs, probably a lot more.
    I am not so sure about that. Of course you may well be right but I think the mood at the moment is such that he could get away with it. Indeed it is worth remembering that when the vote on the Triple lock came before the house last September, Labour did not support retaining it. Instead they abstained. So there is at least some element of realism at work there.
    We all know how a budget vote on ending the triple lock will turn out. Labour will decide, after careful consideration, that making poor, vulnerable pensioners with scarcely two pennies to rub together pay the cost of the Kamikwazi budget and multi-million pound bonuses for evil City bankers is abhorrent, and vote against.

    All the Tory backbenchers will then be made to leave their fingerprints on the bloody knife. They do it, bye bye grey vote. They refuse, general election. Checkmate, crown Starmer King.
    There hasn't been quite enough discussion about what SKS and Labour would actually do when in government about the impossible task facing them - much the same as the impossible task facing Hunt's government. Winning the next GE is the easy bit.

    i remember last time labour got in and the tories were wiped out nationalist parties like the bnp and later ukip started to have electoral success. The BNP made big breakthroughs in the 2002 to 2006 period when the Tories were moribund...now we have a much worse economic situation so something like that could well happen again this time on a bigger scale
    I went to the local election pages of the BBC to see the extent of this BNP surge:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/vote2002/local_elections/atoz.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2003/locals/html/atoz.stm#s
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_United_Kingdom_local_elections

    And weirdly, other than 13 councillors in 2003, there didn't seem to be any surge
    Pesky facts, eh?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    At least the very worse off are getting a Brexit payrise, though.


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,542
    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unpopular said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    On your first point, I'm inclined to agree although listening to Rory Stewart on the Rest is Politics earlier he relayed an exchange with a Tory MP who admonished him for constantly saying that MPs will do whatever they can to avoid a GE in order to cling onto their seats. The Tory MP claimed that many first time MPs were sick of the whole thing and wanted out. I'm not 100% convinced because there's a big difference between not wanting to do a job and imminently making yourself unemployed. However, it should certainly be factored into predictions.

    On your second, I reckon Starmer's very good at politics.
    For the average Tory redwall MP the £84,144 MPs salary is probably the most they have or will ever earn even if some Home Counties Tory MPs might be able to make more money outside
    No wealthy people in the 'red wall' then?
    Just Billy Elliot's is the view of the Epping Forest Massive.
  • HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    It's not even about smarts, or how much people like Starmer. Right now they'd face an extinction level event. Playing for time might not change that, but it at least has a chance!
    Extinction level event is playing overplayed. The wrinklies and thickos will fall back in line on Election Day. Under no scenario can I see the Tories going under 175 seats.
    If they keep Truss I can, indeed under 100 seats. Sunak however could probably at least get them to around 250 seats+
    That's a bit optimistic, H, but at least with Sunak they stay in the game. With Truss, it would be Game Over.

    But Truss is going. Until recently, I was with you in thinking she would stay till the 2023 May Elections. I'm now of the view that tomorrow will be her last PMQ.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    moonshine said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    Starmer is the best Labour leader since Tony Blair.
    That’s almost certainly true, though the competition isn’t that tough.

    Remarkably since Blair came to power Labour have had 4 leaders (Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer) and the Conservatives 7 (Hague, IDS, Howard, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and about to embark on an 8th).

    Starmer does seem to be someone who improves with time, and shows signs of learning from events. His authority has also slowly but surely grown in the party. Look how he’s mended the relationship with Angela Rayner so the two of them are now quite an effective double act.
    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.
    Fake news.
    It’s probably the best Labour front bench since late Blair.
    Would like to agree, but on what I've heard....Maybe I just happened to listen to the wrong ones.
    I used to be a profound Keir skeptic.
    I also used to be very suspicious of the Labour front bench.

    I’ve grudgingly changed my mind on both.

    Nandy, Streeting, Reeves, Phillipson, Lammy, Cooper, Ashworth…

    Add Bryant and Benn (potentially) and you have a high-calibre team.

    Rayner is not really my cup of tea, but I appreciate she reaches places others don’t.

    Starmer’s energy policy should highlight to anyone paying attention that he (and/or his team) have no idea whatsoever what they’re doing. That doesn’t mean he’ll be electorally unsuccessful, at least initially. But it is a clue as to how competent an administration he would likely run.
    Appalling policy.
    So bad Hunt looks set to steal it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,614
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Freddie Sayers
    @freddiesayers
    ·
    1h
    Suddenly there is wide open space for a new populist movement in the UK:

    - anti-globalist/technocrat
    - pro-freedom
    - culturally conservative
    - non free market-fundamentalist

    Neither Tories or Labour anywhere near. Will anyone emerge to seize the opportunity?

    Er... pro-freedom and culturally conservative?

    So, free to marry someone of the same sex and against gay marriages for example?
    Culturally conservative can be of the "minding your own business" variety, ie. people do whatever they like as long as they don't tell other people what to do. So it can be libertarian and culturally conservative at the same time.
    Anti lockdown, anti tax but otherwise socially conservative
    So anti gay marriage?
  • nico679 said:

    Until the Tory membership move on from Brexit then they’re going to remain a clear and present danger to the UK and need to be sidelined .

    Truss got in because she went into EU hate on steroids , even though she voted Remain she’s turned into the ERGs gimpess!

    That's utterly ridiculous and false. The EU have barely featured in the discussions and Truss has done nothing to "hate" the EU, she's merely come up with a sensible method to unilaterally fix the NI Protocol in case an agreement isn't reached - which is the only sensible way to act in negotiations, you need a Plan B in case your negotiations fail and the UK is perfectly entitled to act in a way it sees fit to protect the Good Friday Agreement.

    The Truss v Sunak divide had bugger all to do with Europe and was purely an old-fashioned one on the issue of taxation versus sound money. Sunak on the side of increasing taxes, with Truss on the side of cutting them. Brussels was neither here nor there in that.

    Truss was both literally and figuratively our first post-Brexit PM and is further proof that Brexit is "done". How people voted for Brexit - Leave or Remain - won't get people to the polls to vote Tory next time as that is all history now.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737

    moonshine said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    Starmer is the best Labour leader since Tony Blair.
    That’s almost certainly true, though the competition isn’t that tough.

    Remarkably since Blair came to power Labour have had 4 leaders (Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer) and the Conservatives 7 (Hague, IDS, Howard, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and about to embark on an 8th).

    Starmer does seem to be someone who improves with time, and shows signs of learning from events. His authority has also slowly but surely grown in the party. Look how he’s mended the relationship with Angela Rayner so the two of them are now quite an effective double act.
    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.
    Fake news.
    It’s probably the best Labour front bench since late Blair.
    Would like to agree, but on what I've heard....Maybe I just happened to listen to the wrong ones.
    I used to be a profound Keir skeptic.
    I also used to be very suspicious of the Labour front bench.

    I’ve grudgingly changed my mind on both.

    Nandy, Streeting, Reeves, Phillipson, Lammy, Cooper, Ashworth…

    Add Bryant and Benn (potentially) and you have a high-calibre team.

    Rayner is not really my cup of tea, but I appreciate she reaches places others don’t.

    Starmer’s energy policy should highlight to anyone paying attention that he (and/or his team) have no idea whatsoever what they’re doing. That doesn’t mean he’ll be electorally unsuccessful, at least initially. But it is a clue as to how competent an administration he would likely run.
    Appalling policy.

    So bad Hunt looks set to steal it.
    If that’s what you really think then you haven’t read Starmer’s energy policy.

  • HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.

    The shadow cabinet are generally terrible.

    And infinitely better at every position than the actual cabinet
    Indeed. The state of British politics is shocking. Where are the the heavyweights of old?
    Cooper, Starmer, Hunt, Sunak, Redwood, Wallace, Clark some are still around
    Too many of them are on the backbenches though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,998
    edited October 2022
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I hunkered down like it was the Harrods Sale, and watched the European Research Group arrive in dribs, drabs and the occasional straightjacket.

    These are the true believers: if they’re angry at Liz for anything, it’s for not keeping the mini-Budget. Lord Frost, John Redwood, Kate Hoey, Jacob, Fabbers, the magnificent David Campell Bannerman dragging a suitcase - full, no doubt, of Monetarist literature - and Steve “Muscles” Baker.

    Sir William Cash spread his arms like Jolson, and sang, “Here we goooo!”


    @Richard_Tyndall - that’s you, that is.
    Says the man who believes Putin invaded Ukraine because of Brexit. Face it Gammonwalker your credibility is shot.
    That’s ridiculous

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of the repeal of the Corn Laws.
    Actually I believe that Putin and Zelensky had a disagreement over the truth or falsehood of the miracle of transubstantiation. Though granted I've no idea on which sides of the dispute the two men found themselves.
    Ah, transubstantiation.

    Some really believe that Northern Ireland is about religion. But that would mean that this chap understands what transubstantiation means. Or could spell it…

    image
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,542

    At least the very worse off are getting a Brexit payrise, though.


    That is a pretty grim chart.

    I don't think it would be a very different shape under any other conceivable government. It is going to be a grim winter for many.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,383
    Foxy said:

    ihunt said:

    Interestingly at my gym today quite a bit of politics discussed which is unusual and even talk of protests and riots....

    Makes a change from them dissing gay folk I suppose.
    They diss gay folk at the gym?
    Not a good idea to alienate half the membership.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,614
    moonshine said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    Starmer is the best Labour leader since Tony Blair.
    That’s almost certainly true, though the competition isn’t that tough.

    Remarkably since Blair came to power Labour have had 4 leaders (Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer) and the Conservatives 7 (Hague, IDS, Howard, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and about to embark on an 8th).

    Starmer does seem to be someone who improves with time, and shows signs of learning from events. His authority has also slowly but surely grown in the party. Look how he’s mended the relationship with Angela Rayner so the two of them are now quite an effective double act.
    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.
    Fake news.
    It’s probably the best Labour front bench since late Blair.
    Would like to agree, but on what I've heard....Maybe I just happened to listen to the wrong ones.
    I used to be a profound Keir skeptic.
    I also used to be very suspicious of the Labour front bench.

    I’ve grudgingly changed my mind on both.

    Nandy, Streeting, Reeves, Phillipson, Lammy, Cooper, Ashworth…

    Add Bryant and Benn (potentially) and you have a high-calibre team.

    Rayner is not really my cup of tea, but I appreciate she reaches places others don’t.

    Starmer’s energy policy should highlight to anyone paying attention that he (and/or his team) have no idea whatsoever what they’re doing. That doesn’t mean he’ll be electorally unsuccessful, at least initially. But it is a clue as to how competent an administration he would likely run.
    It's the policy more or less implemented now by the government. I understand you don't like it; plenty of grown-ups think it's the right thing to do.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,649
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Try NYC on an average weeknight or afternoon and it would still be bustling I expect. As I said, Denver is just the biggest city in Colorado, it is not a global metropolis
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,331

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    Starmer is the best Labour leader since Tony Blair.
    That’s almost certainly true, though the competition isn’t that tough.

    Remarkably since Blair came to power Labour have had 4 leaders (Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer) and the Conservatives 7 (Hague, IDS, Howard, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and about to embark on an 8th).

    Starmer does seem to be someone who improves with time, and shows signs of learning from events. His authority has also slowly but surely grown in the party. Look how he’s mended the relationship with Angela Rayner so the two of them are now quite an effective double act.
    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.
    Could you be more specific? Too much of a generalisation to respond to, although I think the SC is stronger than for some time.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Try NYC on an average weeknight or afternoon and it would still be bustling I expect. As I said, Denver is just the biggest city in Colorado, it is not a global metropolis
    The Denver metro has 3m people, which would make it the second largest metro after London I think, were it in the UK.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,614

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.
    Not really a fair comparison. Seville is a tourist destination; Denver not so much.

    A better comparison would be Leeds or Birmingham, but I suspect both would still look a lot livelier than Denver does in those pics.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,953
    ...
  • TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    Starmer is the best Labour leader since Tony Blair.
    That’s almost certainly true, though the competition isn’t that tough.

    Remarkably since Blair came to power Labour have had 4 leaders (Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer) and the Conservatives 7 (Hague, IDS, Howard, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and about to embark on an 8th).

    Starmer does seem to be someone who improves with time, and shows signs of learning from events. His authority has also slowly but surely grown in the party. Look how he’s mended the relationship with Angela Rayner so the two of them are now quite an effective double act.
    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.
    Could you be more specific? Too much of a generalisation to respond to, although I think the SC is stronger than for some time.
    Sorry but I can't remember names (which is itself an indication of the problem) but too often I hear a substandard response from a Shadow spokesman so I can only assume there is a lack of talent.

    And why is Hilary Benn still a backbencher? Makes no sense.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952
    edited October 2022

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,490
    Major economic news from Germany: Schnitzel prices in restaurants hit record high

    https://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/spuerbare-preiserhoehungen-rekord-preise-fuer-schnitzel-im-restaurant-was-sie-beachten-muessen_id_164955696.html

    More seriously, several bankruptcies have been announced in the last 24 hours: Wolff Hoch-und Ingenieurbau, Borgers, Bodeta and Kappus.
  • Leon said:

    America is fucked





    Leon did you see this video about the American “food” offer?

    https://twitter.com/mikebradleymke/status/1580381366314598401?s=46&t=sc2PVZg7p214HBxpRZ4YcA
    If that's an American Costco sized store rather than a UK sized supermarket I don't see anything wrong with that, at all.

    American/Canadian Costco's etc are humungous and have a huge selection of goods, plus a deep quantity of those goods. It looked like many cabinets only had a single flavour of the pizza (so many versions of the same flavour) while here a supermarket could have 9 different flavours in the same cabinet.

    So long as it has a comparable range of fresh food etc and not just frozen pizza, if it simply has a lot of stock, and a lot of choice in that stock, there's nothing wrong with that. There's no difference between buying 1 pizza from one freezer, or 1 pizza from a choice of 30 different freezers, it just means walking further which isn't necessarily a bad thing for anyone eating pizza to do!
  • glw said:

    FPT:

    What people actually think about Brexit, rather than simplistic binary choices.

    https://institute.global/policy/moving-how-british-public-views-brexit-and-what-it-wants-future-relationship-european-union

    Well worth reading, even if you don't like the source.

    Over two-thirds of voters (70 per cent) think that, over the medium term, the UK should have a closer relationship with the EU than what we have today, but only a third of the public think that the UK should seek membership of the EU single market at the minimum.


    That's hardly a public endorsement for joining the EU as it actually is, rather than the romantic utopian view die-hard Remainers have.
    As someone who voted Leave, I looked at the result and was quite dismayed at where we ended up.
    48% of people wanted to Remain, so my view was we should've seriously considered EEA or EFTA+
    To leave both the EU and stay outside of EFTA as well was not, in my opinion, delivering what was broadly voted for.

    And given the events in Russia and the Ukraine, I personally think like Finland and Sweden joining NATO that we should rejoin EFTA.

    Maybe Labour will do that.... who knows......
    This was my argument from the day after the referendum. Actually, it was my argument well before but unlike some I did stick to this conviction. I still think it is where our final destination will be although not soon enough to save me the £100 bet I had with Richard Nabavi at the time.

    It is also the reason why we will not rejoin the EU. And it is the only way in which Brexit will, finally, be settled.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,383
    Philip Blond is utterly deluded.
    The Tories the Party of the working class? My arse.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,490
    Foxy said:
    The rumour is that Putin will close the borders tomorrow (although it's not the first time there have been such rumours).
  • At least the very worse off are getting a Brexit payrise, though.


    Do you have the same chart for Greeks, Germans and other Europeans?

    Its entirely possible that people are having both a Brexit payrise and a decline in real wages considering there is huge global inflation - but that the decline in real wages would have been much worse without their Brexit payrise to help cushion the blow.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I hunkered down like it was the Harrods Sale, and watched the European Research Group arrive in dribs, drabs and the occasional straightjacket.

    These are the true believers: if they’re angry at Liz for anything, it’s for not keeping the mini-Budget. Lord Frost, John Redwood, Kate Hoey, Jacob, Fabbers, the magnificent David Campell Bannerman dragging a suitcase - full, no doubt, of Monetarist literature - and Steve “Muscles” Baker.

    Sir William Cash spread his arms like Jolson, and sang, “Here we goooo!”


    @Richard_Tyndall - that’s you, that is.
    Says the man who believes Putin invaded Ukraine because of Brexit. Face it Gammonwalker your credibility is shot.
    That’s ridiculous

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of the repeal of the Corn Laws.
    Actually I believe that Putin and Zelensky had a disagreement over the truth or falsehood of the miracle of transubstantiation. Though granted I've no idea on which sides of the dispute the two men found themselves.
    Ah, transubstantiation.

    Some really believe that Northern Ireland is about religion. But that would mean that this chap understands what transubstantiation means. Or could spell it…

    image
    Tbh, Putin strikes me as more of a Radiohead man than Zelensky does, so I think that may be it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,542
    I see also that the puppet regime in Kherson is losing its bottle.

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1582472381519781888?t=dSND6-lZllMo17KdEKWmDw&s=19
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,541

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    Leon did you see this video about the American “food” offer?

    https://twitter.com/mikebradleymke/status/1580381366314598401?s=46&t=sc2PVZg7p214HBxpRZ4YcA
    If that's an American Costco sized store rather than a UK sized supermarket I don't see anything wrong with that, at all.

    American/Canadian Costco's etc are humungous and have a huge selection of goods, plus a deep quantity of those goods. It looked like many cabinets only had a single flavour of the pizza (so many versions of the same flavour) while here a supermarket could have 9 different flavours in the same cabinet.

    So long as it has a comparable range of fresh food etc and not just frozen pizza, if it simply has a lot of stock, and a lot of choice in that stock, there's nothing wrong with that. There's no difference between buying 1 pizza from one freezer, or 1 pizza from a choice of 30 different freezers, it just means walking further which isn't necessarily a bad thing for anyone eating pizza to do!
    Yup. Indeed, some of the replies to that tweet show videos of similarly huge cheese and beer sections of similar stores.

    Having said that, Wisconsin does have a famously bad obesity problem. They eat like they still do a day's manual labour in the winter snows - very carb heavy indeed. There's a scene in a documentary (Palin? Bourdain?) of a Wisconsin lunch buffet which sticks in my mind, even if I can't place it.
  • moonshine said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    Starmer is the best Labour leader since Tony Blair.
    That’s almost certainly true, though the competition isn’t that tough.

    Remarkably since Blair came to power Labour have had 4 leaders (Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer) and the Conservatives 7 (Hague, IDS, Howard, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and about to embark on an 8th).

    Starmer does seem to be someone who improves with time, and shows signs of learning from events. His authority has also slowly but surely grown in the party. Look how he’s mended the relationship with Angela Rayner so the two of them are now quite an effective double act.
    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.
    Fake news.
    It’s probably the best Labour front bench since late Blair.
    Would like to agree, but on what I've heard....Maybe I just happened to listen to the wrong ones.
    I used to be a profound Keir skeptic.
    I also used to be very suspicious of the Labour front bench.

    I’ve grudgingly changed my mind on both.

    Nandy, Streeting, Reeves, Phillipson, Lammy, Cooper, Ashworth…

    Add Bryant and Benn (potentially) and you have a high-calibre team.

    Rayner is not really my cup of tea, but I appreciate she reaches places others don’t.

    Starmer’s energy policy should highlight to anyone paying attention that he (and/or his team) have no idea whatsoever what they’re doing. That doesn’t mean he’ll be electorally unsuccessful, at least initially. But it is a clue as to how competent an administration he would likely run.
    It's the policy more or less implemented now by the government. I understand you don't like it; plenty of grown-ups think it's the right thing to do.
    So what you're saying is that the way to judge whether a policy is sound is by whether this government is implementing it? And if this government is implementing the policy, then that is competent and the grown up thing to do?

    Its a view. 🤔
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,033

    glw said:

    FPT:

    What people actually think about Brexit, rather than simplistic binary choices.

    https://institute.global/policy/moving-how-british-public-views-brexit-and-what-it-wants-future-relationship-european-union

    Well worth reading, even if you don't like the source.

    Over two-thirds of voters (70 per cent) think that, over the medium term, the UK should have a closer relationship with the EU than what we have today, but only a third of the public think that the UK should seek membership of the EU single market at the minimum.


    That's hardly a public endorsement for joining the EU as it actually is, rather than the romantic utopian view die-hard Remainers have.
    As someone who voted Leave, I looked at the result and was quite dismayed at where we ended up.
    48% of people wanted to Remain, so my view was we should've seriously considered EEA or EFTA+
    To leave both the EU and stay outside of EFTA as well was not, in my opinion, delivering what was broadly voted for.

    And given the events in Russia and the Ukraine, I personally think like Finland and Sweden joining NATO that we should rejoin EFTA.

    Maybe Labour will do that.... who knows......
    This was my argument from the day after the referendum. Actually, it was my argument well before but unlike some I did stick to this conviction. I still think it is where our final destination will be although not soon enough to save me the £100 bet I had with Richard Nabavi at the time.

    It is also the reason why we will not rejoin the EU. And it is the only way in which Brexit will, finally, be settled.
    The thing that I find compelling EFTA/EEA is that the countries in it seem very happy about their relationships with the EU.

    And maybe something that works for the middle 60% is the right place to be.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,033
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



    Have you been to the Wynkoop yet? Make sure you go there this evening.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,307
    dixiedean said:

    Philip Blond is utterly deluded.
    The Tories the Party of the working class? My arse.

    ...if only we could persuade self- made working class hero Boris Johnson back into Downing Street.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,033

    rcs1000 said:

    Freddie Sayers
    @freddiesayers
    ·
    1h
    Suddenly there is wide open space for a new populist movement in the UK:

    - anti-globalist/technocrat
    - pro-freedom
    - culturally conservative
    - non free market-fundamentalist

    Neither Tories or Labour anywhere near. Will anyone emerge to seize the opportunity?

    Er... pro-freedom and culturally conservative?

    So, free to marry someone of the same sex and against gay marriages for example?
    When they say "pro-freedom", what they mean is "pro-my-specific-kind-of-freedom-and-I-should-be-free-to-make-jokes-about-uphill-gardening"/
    As opposed to the pro-my-specific-kind-of-freedom-and-I-should-be-free-to-get-people-fired-for-not-believing-my-esoteric-set-of-nostrums

    The belief in freedom in the sense of “freedom for people I don’t like, to do things I don’t approve of” is rather rare
    It is. But it's important.

    I have no desire to snort heroin off a 19 year old hooker's naked body, and I would regard such behaviour as tawdry and boorish, but believe people should have the freedom to do that, so long as everyone is a consenting adult.

    I have no desire to go into a Mosque and preach about the evils of America. But I believe people should have the freedom to do that.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737

    moonshine said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    Starmer is the best Labour leader since Tony Blair.
    That’s almost certainly true, though the competition isn’t that tough.

    Remarkably since Blair came to power Labour have had 4 leaders (Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer) and the Conservatives 7 (Hague, IDS, Howard, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and about to embark on an 8th).

    Starmer does seem to be someone who improves with time, and shows signs of learning from events. His authority has also slowly but surely grown in the party. Look how he’s mended the relationship with Angela Rayner so the two of them are now quite an effective double act.
    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.
    Fake news.
    It’s probably the best Labour front bench since late Blair.
    Would like to agree, but on what I've heard....Maybe I just happened to listen to the wrong ones.
    I used to be a profound Keir skeptic.
    I also used to be very suspicious of the Labour front bench.

    I’ve grudgingly changed my mind on both.

    Nandy, Streeting, Reeves, Phillipson, Lammy, Cooper, Ashworth…

    Add Bryant and Benn (potentially) and you have a high-calibre team.

    Rayner is not really my cup of tea, but I appreciate she reaches places others don’t.

    Starmer’s energy policy should highlight to anyone paying attention that he (and/or his team) have no idea whatsoever what they’re doing. That doesn’t mean he’ll be electorally unsuccessful, at least initially. But it is a clue as to how competent an administration he would likely run.
    It's the policy more or less implemented now by the government. I understand you don't like it;
    plenty of grown-ups think it's the right thing to do.
    False. The current govt is not proposing to crowd our private sector investment by nationalising renewable energy production.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,331
    Just catching up.

    Thank God Brexit is done and dusted. Christ only knows how many posts there would be on it if it was still a bone of contention.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,490
    Pro_Rata said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I hunkered down like it was the Harrods Sale, and watched the European Research Group arrive in dribs, drabs and the occasional straightjacket.

    These are the true believers: if they’re angry at Liz for anything, it’s for not keeping the mini-Budget. Lord Frost, John Redwood, Kate Hoey, Jacob, Fabbers, the magnificent David Campell Bannerman dragging a suitcase - full, no doubt, of Monetarist literature - and Steve “Muscles” Baker.

    Sir William Cash spread his arms like Jolson, and sang, “Here we goooo!”


    @Richard_Tyndall - that’s you, that is.
    Says the man who believes Putin invaded Ukraine because of Brexit. Face it Gammonwalker your credibility is shot.
    That’s ridiculous

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of the repeal of the Corn Laws.
    Actually I believe that Putin and Zelensky had a disagreement over the truth or falsehood of the miracle of transubstantiation. Though granted I've no idea on which sides of the dispute the two men found themselves.
    Ah, transubstantiation.

    Some really believe that Northern Ireland is about religion. But that would mean that this chap understands what transubstantiation means. Or could spell it…

    image
    Tbh, Putin strikes me as more of a Radiohead man than Zelensky does, so I think that may be it.
    A creep who’s somewhere he doesn’t belong?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,592
    Foxy said:

    I see also that the puppet regime in Kherson is losing its bottle.

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1582472381519781888?t=dSND6-lZllMo17KdEKWmDw&s=19

    Bet he will be one of the first out of the door.

  • Pro_Rata said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I hunkered down like it was the Harrods Sale, and watched the European Research Group arrive in dribs, drabs and the occasional straightjacket.

    These are the true believers: if they’re angry at Liz for anything, it’s for not keeping the mini-Budget. Lord Frost, John Redwood, Kate Hoey, Jacob, Fabbers, the magnificent David Campell Bannerman dragging a suitcase - full, no doubt, of Monetarist literature - and Steve “Muscles” Baker.

    Sir William Cash spread his arms like Jolson, and sang, “Here we goooo!”


    @Richard_Tyndall - that’s you, that is.
    Says the man who believes Putin invaded Ukraine because of Brexit. Face it Gammonwalker your credibility is shot.
    That’s ridiculous

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of the repeal of the Corn Laws.
    Actually I believe that Putin and Zelensky had a disagreement over the truth or falsehood of the miracle of transubstantiation. Though granted I've no idea on which sides of the dispute the two men found themselves.
    Ah, transubstantiation.

    Some really believe that Northern Ireland is about religion. But that would mean that this chap understands what transubstantiation means. Or could spell it…

    image
    Tbh, Putin strikes me as more of a Radiohead man than Zelensky does, so I think that may be it.
    No surprises that this guy is a creep.

    image
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



    Though looking at the photos in the round, why would anyone want to spend any more time there than they had to? It looks like slab - wide road - slab. Not much to engage with, or that can make the soul sing. In their different ways, the Square Mile, Docklands and old Seville have got enough density and texture to give the eye lots of somethings to look at.

    Has anywhere done that and left enough space for cars to flow and park sufficiently freely?
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Freddie Sayers
    @freddiesayers
    ·
    1h
    Suddenly there is wide open space for a new populist movement in the UK:

    - anti-globalist/technocrat
    - pro-freedom
    - culturally conservative
    - non free market-fundamentalist

    Neither Tories or Labour anywhere near. Will anyone emerge to seize the opportunity?

    Er... pro-freedom and culturally conservative?

    So, free to marry someone of the same sex and against gay marriages for example?
    When they say "pro-freedom", what they mean is "pro-my-specific-kind-of-freedom-and-I-should-be-free-to-make-jokes-about-uphill-gardening"/
    As opposed to the pro-my-specific-kind-of-freedom-and-I-should-be-free-to-get-people-fired-for-not-believing-my-esoteric-set-of-nostrums

    The belief in freedom in the sense of “freedom for people I don’t like, to do things I don’t approve of” is rather rare
    It is. But it's important.

    I have no desire to snort heroin off a 19 year old hooker's naked body, and I would regard such behaviour as tawdry and boorish, but believe people should have the freedom to do that, so long as everyone is a consenting adult.

    I have no desire to go into a Mosque and preach about the evils of America. But I believe people should have the freedom to do that.
    Freedom means absolutely nothing if you don't give the same freedom to those you vehemently disagree with.
  • Given that the current UK cabinet is a motley collection of substandard muppets, why not replacing with a new and (greatly) improved team, composed of REAL Muppets:

    Prime Minister > Kermit the Frog (aka GOF)
    Deputy PM and Chief Whip > Miss Piggy
    Chancellor of the Exchequer > Fozie Bear
    Foreign Secretary > Dr Julius Strangepork
    Home Secretary > Gonzo the Great
    Defense Secretary > Animal
    Justice Secretary/Lord Chancellor > Bert and Ernie
    SS for Business & Trade > Rizzo the Rat
    SS for Environment > Oscar the Grouch
    SS for Education > Elmo
    SS for Health > Link Hogthrob
    SS for Science > Dr Bensen Honeydew (w Beaker as UnderSec)
    SS for Culture > Dr Teeth
    SS for Agriculture > Henrietta Chicken (or Attila the Hen?)
    SS for Transport > Big Bird
    SS for Leveling Up > Cookie Monster
    SSs for Woke & Multiculturalism > Janice and Swedish Chef
    Leader of the House of Commons > Scooter

    Leader(s) of the Opposition > Statler and Waldorf


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,649
    edited October 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Try NYC on an average weeknight or afternoon and it would still be bustling I expect. As I said, Denver is just the biggest city in Colorado, it is not a global metropolis
    The Denver metro has 3m people, which would make it the second largest metro after London I think, were it in the UK.
    Yes but who wants to go into Birmingham to work either if they can work at home.

    The big tourist cities and the big buzzing global metropolis cities like London and NYC and Paris will still have plenty of people in them in the week, the rest won't unless for the odd team meeting or night out
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,033
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA
    Denver exists for people who like to spend their entire time in the mountains, but have day jobs.

    Almost everyone I know there has a second place - usually just a two or three room cabin - out in the mountains.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,270
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Try NYC on an average weeknight or afternoon and it would still be bustling I expect. As I said, Denver is just the biggest city in Colorado, it is not a global metropolis
    But how much of that in NYC is tourists? That's treating a city as a museum exhibit to be gawked at, rather than a real living thing.

    I know that of my family in NYC quite a few of them are still working at home a fair bit. It's definitely a change. Not convinced that it's the death of western civilisation that Leon thinks it is, but I have no problem admitting to being frequently wrong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



    Though looking at the photos in the round, why would anyone want to spend any more time there than they had to? It looks like slab - wide road - slab. Not much to engage with, or that can make the soul sing. In their different ways, the Square Mile, Docklands and old Seville have got enough density and texture to give the eye lots of somethings to look at.

    Has anywhere done that and left enough space for cars to flow and park sufficiently freely?
    Except there is also a really nice handsome preserved Victorian downtown bit - steam cleaned bricks and wooden floors, classic preservation stuff - and it is nearly as bad

    My guide was a charming old dude and he was in mild despair. It is not a good thing if your cities die. Just isn’t. Working From Home is a fucking disaster for the human soul
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737
    Foxy said:

    I see also that the puppet regime in Kherson is losing its bottle.

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1582472381519781888?t=dSND6-lZllMo17KdEKWmDw&s=19

    Increasing signal through the noise that Kherson is about to fall. Sounds too like a systematic campaign of slow but steady encirclement happening in the north east that should soon tie up probably two of three major remaining railway junctions in north Luhansk.

    As for Wallace in DC, I suspect this is about new Iranian nuclear capability (gifted from Russia). I’d say >50% odds we see an Israeli intervention of some sort within a month.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,649
    edited October 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Philip Blond is utterly deluded.
    The Tories the Party of the working class? My arse.

    They were under Boris, he was the first Tory leader ever to win DEs, the unskilled working class and unemployed, as well as winning C2s, the skilled working class by more than he won upper middle class ABs
  • Given that the current UK cabinet is a motley collection of substandard muppets, why not replacing with a new and (greatly) improved team, composed of REAL Muppets:

    Prime Minister > Kermit the Frog (aka GOF)
    Deputy PM and Chief Whip > Miss Piggy
    Chancellor of the Exchequer > Fozie Bear
    Foreign Secretary > Dr Julius Strangepork
    Home Secretary > Gonzo the Great
    Defense Secretary > Animal
    Justice Secretary/Lord Chancellor > Bert and Ernie
    SS for Business & Trade > Rizzo the Rat
    SS for Environment > Oscar the Grouch
    SS for Education > Elmo
    SS for Health > Link Hogthrob
    SS for Science > Dr Bensen Honeydew (w Beaker as UnderSec)
    SS for Culture > Dr Teeth
    SS for Agriculture > Henrietta Chicken (or Attila the Hen?)
    SS for Transport > Big Bird
    SS for Leveling Up > Cookie Monster
    SSs for Woke & Multiculturalism > Janice and Swedish Chef
    Leader of the House of Commons > Scooter

    Leader(s) of the Opposition > Statler and Waldorf


    The mini budget could have done with a few Wocka Wockas.
  • Scott_xP said:
    I hunkered down like it was the Harrods Sale, and watched the European Research Group arrive in dribs, drabs and the occasional straightjacket.

    These are the true believers: if they’re angry at Liz for anything, it’s for not keeping the mini-Budget. Lord Frost, John Redwood, Kate Hoey, Jacob, Fabbers, the magnificent David Campell Bannerman dragging a suitcase - full, no doubt, of Monetarist literature - and Steve “Muscles” Baker.

    Sir William Cash spread his arms like Jolson, and sang, “Here we goooo!”


    @Richard_Tyndall - that’s you, that is.
    Says the man who believes Putin invaded Ukraine because of Brexit. Face it Gammonwalker your credibility is shot.
    That’s ridiculous

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of the repeal of the Corn Laws.
    Well, the Corn Laws DID help the Ukraine grain trade in massive way, thus paving way for their delusions of independence and nationhood
  • PJHPJH Posts: 639

    rcs1000 said:

    Freddie Sayers
    @freddiesayers
    ·
    1h
    Suddenly there is wide open space for a new populist movement in the UK:

    - anti-globalist/technocrat
    - pro-freedom
    - culturally conservative
    - non free market-fundamentalist

    Neither Tories or Labour anywhere near. Will anyone emerge to seize the opportunity?

    Er... pro-freedom and culturally conservative?

    So, free to marry someone of the same sex and against gay marriages for example?
    When they say "pro-freedom", what they mean is "pro-my-specific-kind-of-freedom-and-I-should-be-free-to-make-jokes-about-uphill-gardening"/
    As opposed to the pro-my-specific-kind-of-freedom-and-I-should-be-free-to-get-people-fired-for-not-believing-my-esoteric-set-of-nostrums

    The belief in freedom in the sense of “freedom for people I don’t like, to do things I don’t approve of” is rather rare
    I can't say I've noticed any Populist movements anywhere that have any interest in freedom at all. Quite the reverse.

    The other three - definitely, especially if non-free market fundamentalist means fairly left wing protectionist.

    But the problem for Populist movements seems to be (as a poster said the other day) that they always seem to end up being captured by wealthy anti-tax small state (apart from the bits they like, such as police) elites.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



    Though looking at the photos in the round, why would anyone want to spend any more time there than they had to? It looks like slab - wide road - slab. Not much to engage with, or that can make the soul sing. In their different ways, the Square Mile, Docklands and old Seville have got enough density and texture to give the eye lots of somethings to look at.

    Has anywhere done that and left enough space for cars to flow and park sufficiently freely?
    Except there is also a really nice handsome preserved Victorian downtown bit - steam cleaned bricks and wooden floors, classic preservation stuff - and it is nearly as bad

    My guide was a charming old dude and he was in mild despair. It is not a good thing if your cities die. Just isn’t. Working From Home is a fucking disaster for the human soul
    Don’t you work from home?
  • ihuntihunt Posts: 146

    Given that the current UK cabinet is a motley collection of substandard muppets, why not replacing with a new and (greatly) improved team, composed of REAL Muppets:

    Prime Minister > Kermit the Frog (aka GOF)
    Deputy PM and Chief Whip > Miss Piggy
    Chancellor of the Exchequer > Fozie Bear
    Foreign Secretary > Dr Julius Strangepork
    Home Secretary > Gonzo the Great
    Defense Secretary > Animal
    Justice Secretary/Lord Chancellor > Bert and Ernie
    SS for Business & Trade > Rizzo the Rat
    SS for Environment > Oscar the Grouch
    SS for Education > Elmo
    SS for Health > Link Hogthrob
    SS for Science > Dr Bensen Honeydew (w Beaker as UnderSec)
    SS for Culture > Dr Teeth
    SS for Agriculture > Henrietta Chicken (or Attila the Hen?)
    SS for Transport > Big Bird
    SS for Leveling Up > Cookie Monster
    SSs for Woke & Multiculturalism > Janice and Swedish Chef
    Leader of the House of Commons > Scooter

    Leader(s) of the Opposition > Statler and Waldorf


    The mini budget could have done with a few Wocka Wockas.
    Kermit the frog would be a lot more interesting and charismatic than Teyss
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,383
    edited October 2022
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Philip Blond is utterly deluded.
    The Tories the Party of the working class? My arse.

    They were under Boris, he was the first Tory leader ever to win DEs, the unskilled working class and unemployed, as well as winning C2s, the skilled working class by more than he won upper middle class ABs
    And what did he do for them? Falling real wages and worse conditions.
    Fool me once.
    The skilled and unskilled retired home owners did OK.
    They aren't workers.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 639

    Given that the current UK cabinet is a motley collection of substandard muppets, why not replacing with a new and (greatly) improved team, composed of REAL Muppets:

    Prime Minister > Kermit the Frog (aka GOF)
    Deputy PM and Chief Whip > Miss Piggy
    Chancellor of the Exchequer > Fozie Bear
    Foreign Secretary > Dr Julius Strangepork
    Home Secretary > Gonzo the Great
    Defense Secretary > Animal
    Justice Secretary/Lord Chancellor > Bert and Ernie
    SS for Business & Trade > Rizzo the Rat
    SS for Environment > Oscar the Grouch
    SS for Education > Elmo
    SS for Health > Link Hogthrob
    SS for Science > Dr Bensen Honeydew (w Beaker as UnderSec)
    SS for Culture > Dr Teeth
    SS for Agriculture > Henrietta Chicken (or Attila the Hen?)
    SS for Transport > Big Bird
    SS for Leveling Up > Cookie Monster
    SSs for Woke & Multiculturalism > Janice and Swedish Chef
    Leader of the House of Commons > Scooter

    Leader(s) of the Opposition > Statler and Waldorf


    Brilliant!

    I think the previous Chancellor couldn't count even as well as Fozzie...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    edited October 2022
    Kirsty Walk to Robert Buckland.........

    "What did you see in Liz Truss that made you change your support from Rishi Sunak to her?"

    There's a lot to dislike in this bunch of Tory MPs. YUK!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,649
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Philip Blond is utterly deluded.
    The Tories the Party of the working class? My arse.

    They were under Boris, he was the first Tory leader ever to win DEs, the unskilled working class and unemployed, as well as winning C2s, the skilled working class by more than he won upper middle class ABs
    And what did he do for them? Falling real wages and worse conditions.
    Fool me once.
    Got Brexit done and replaced free movement with a points system, provided furlough with Sunak and got the vaccine out.

    Before Truss he was also investing in levelling up
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    I am starting a new role in January and some of it is going to be trying to work out how to balance the collaborative productivity of in-office working, with the improved comfort of working from home.

    If anyone is aware of any decent models, let me know.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,033

    Pro_Rata said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I hunkered down like it was the Harrods Sale, and watched the European Research Group arrive in dribs, drabs and the occasional straightjacket.

    These are the true believers: if they’re angry at Liz for anything, it’s for not keeping the mini-Budget. Lord Frost, John Redwood, Kate Hoey, Jacob, Fabbers, the magnificent David Campell Bannerman dragging a suitcase - full, no doubt, of Monetarist literature - and Steve “Muscles” Baker.

    Sir William Cash spread his arms like Jolson, and sang, “Here we goooo!”


    @Richard_Tyndall - that’s you, that is.
    Says the man who believes Putin invaded Ukraine because of Brexit. Face it Gammonwalker your credibility is shot.
    That’s ridiculous

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of the repeal of the Corn Laws.
    Actually I believe that Putin and Zelensky had a disagreement over the truth or falsehood of the miracle of transubstantiation. Though granted I've no idea on which sides of the dispute the two men found themselves.
    Ah, transubstantiation.

    Some really believe that Northern Ireland is about religion. But that would mean that this chap understands what transubstantiation means. Or could spell it…

    image
    Tbh, Putin strikes me as more of a Radiohead man than Zelensky does, so I think that may be it.
    No surprises that this guy is a creep.

    image
    And a loser. What the hell is he doing there. He doesn't belong there.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,998

    Scott_xP said:
    I hunkered down like it was the Harrods Sale, and watched the European Research Group arrive in dribs, drabs and the occasional straightjacket.

    These are the true believers: if they’re angry at Liz for anything, it’s for not keeping the mini-Budget. Lord Frost, John Redwood, Kate Hoey, Jacob, Fabbers, the magnificent David Campell Bannerman dragging a suitcase - full, no doubt, of Monetarist literature - and Steve “Muscles” Baker.

    Sir William Cash spread his arms like Jolson, and sang, “Here we goooo!”


    @Richard_Tyndall - that’s you, that is.
    Says the man who believes Putin invaded Ukraine because of Brexit. Face it Gammonwalker your credibility is shot.
    That’s ridiculous

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of the repeal of the Corn Laws.
    Well, the Corn Laws DID help the Ukraine grain trade in massive way, thus paving way for their delusions of independence and nationhood
    Applause.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,383

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



    Though looking at the photos in the round, why would anyone want to spend any more time there than they had to? It looks like slab - wide road - slab. Not much to engage with, or that can make the soul sing. In their different ways, the Square Mile, Docklands and old Seville have got enough density and texture to give the eye lots of somethings to look at.

    Has anywhere done that and left enough space for cars to flow and park sufficiently freely?
    Except there is also a really nice handsome preserved Victorian downtown bit - steam cleaned bricks and wooden floors, classic preservation stuff - and it is nearly as bad

    My guide was a charming old dude and he was in mild despair. It is not a good thing if your cities die. Just isn’t. Working From Home is a fucking disaster for the human soul
    Don’t you work from home?
    That may explain the state of his soul.
  • rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA
    Denver exists for people who like to spend their entire time in the mountains, but have day jobs.

    Almost everyone I know there has a second place - usually just a two or three room cabin - out in the mountains.
    Seattle is quite similar. With boating as alternative to mountaineering.

    Also similar issue regarding downtown.

    Though we do get a LOT of tourists, most visibly in relation to cruise ships to Alaska & back. Their returning to business has helped downtown SEA.

    BTW, Leon, have you been to the State Capitol yet? Always wanted to go there & stand at the Mile High marker!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    edited October 2022
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Philip Blond is utterly deluded.
    The Tories the Party of the working class? My arse.

    They were under Boris, he was the first Tory leader ever to win DEs, the unskilled working class and unemployed, as well as winning C2s, the skilled working class by more than he won upper middle class ABs
    And what did he do for them? Falling real wages and worse conditions.
    Fool me once.
    Got Brexit done and replaced free movement with a points system, provided furlough with Sunak and got the vaccine out.

    Before Truss he was also investing in levelling up
    No he wasn’t.
    Sunak never released the funds.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,383
    edited October 2022
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Philip Blond is utterly deluded.
    The Tories the Party of the working class? My arse.

    They were under Boris, he was the first Tory leader ever to win DEs, the unskilled working class and unemployed, as well as winning C2s, the skilled working class by more than he won upper middle class ABs
    And what did he do for them? Falling real wages and worse conditions.
    Fool me once.
    Got Brexit done and replaced free movement with a points system, provided furlough with Sunak and got the vaccine out.

    Before Truss he was also investing in levelling up
    Ha ha. My arse he was.
    Falling real wages and worse conditions.
    Nobody on minimum wage cares about the rest. That's fluff for the decently paid to obsess about.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    Good grief Buckland on Newsnight is dreadful .

    He changed from Sunak to Truss because she had a more realistic and hopeful vision ! Or was it you thought she’d win and wanted a job .

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,542

    I am starting a new role in January and some of it is going to be trying to work out how to balance the collaborative productivity of in-office working, with the improved comfort of working from home.

    If anyone is aware of any decent models, let me know.

    Some of our admin team work from home, and their appraisals were interesting. Some had higher productivity and fewer errors, others the opposite. It is very person and site specific.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited October 2022
    While in the great Centennial State, Leon should head up to Woody Creek and pay homage to that great PB icon, Dr. Hunter S. Thompson.

    Edit - Icon AND role model?

    For instance, have always sensed strong native affinity between HST and Big_G_NorthWales.
  • ihuntihunt Posts: 146
    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    We neglect social capital at our peril. Socially Spain is wealthier than the usa despite been economically poorer.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



    Though looking at the photos in the round, why would anyone want to spend any more time there than they had to? It looks like slab - wide road - slab. Not much to engage with, or that can make the soul sing. In their different ways, the Square Mile, Docklands and old Seville have got enough density and texture to give the eye lots of somethings to look at.

    Has anywhere done that and left enough space for cars to flow and park sufficiently freely?
    Except there is also a really nice handsome preserved Victorian downtown bit - steam cleaned bricks and wooden floors, classic preservation stuff - and it is nearly as bad

    My guide was a charming old dude and he was in mild despair. It is not a good thing if your cities die. Just isn’t. Working From Home is a fucking disaster for the human soul
    Don’t you work from home?
    Friend, the WORLD is my home
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,649
    edited October 2022

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Philip Blond is utterly deluded.
    The Tories the Party of the working class? My arse.

    They were under Boris, he was the first Tory leader ever to win DEs, the unskilled working class and unemployed, as well as winning C2s, the skilled working class by more than he won upper middle class ABs
    And what did he do for them? Falling real wages and worse conditions.
    Fool me once.
    Got Brexit done and replaced free movement with a points system, provided furlough with Sunak and got the vaccine out.

    Before Truss he was also investing in levelling up
    No he wasn’t.
    Sunak never released the funds.
    https://www.theplanner.co.uk/2021/10/27/budget-and-spending-review-sunak-allocates-first-round-bids-levelling-fund.

    Boris is also the only senior politician still who has higher favourables with working class C2DEs than middle class ABC1s with Yougov.

    Starmer, Sunak. Truss and Hunt by contrast all do better with middle class voters than working class voters

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/18/liz-trusss-net-favourability-rating-falls-70
  • TresTres Posts: 2,689

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I hunkered down like it was the Harrods Sale, and watched the European Research Group arrive in dribs, drabs and the occasional straightjacket.

    These are the true believers: if they’re angry at Liz for anything, it’s for not keeping the mini-Budget. Lord Frost, John Redwood, Kate Hoey, Jacob, Fabbers, the magnificent David Campell Bannerman dragging a suitcase - full, no doubt, of Monetarist literature - and Steve “Muscles” Baker.

    Sir William Cash spread his arms like Jolson, and sang, “Here we goooo!”


    @Richard_Tyndall - that’s you, that is.
    Says the man who believes Putin invaded Ukraine because of Brexit. Face it Gammonwalker your credibility is shot.
    That’s ridiculous

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of the repeal of the Corn Laws.
    Actually I believe that Putin and Zelensky had a disagreement over the truth or falsehood of the miracle of transubstantiation. Though granted I've no idea on which sides of the dispute the two men found themselves.
    Actually it was over the Schleswig-Holstein question. Only three men ever knew the answer. One is dead, one has forgotten, and the other is @Richard_Tyndall
    took a european war to solve that question
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,383
    edited October 2022
    Foxy said:

    I am starting a new role in January and some of it is going to be trying to work out how to balance the collaborative productivity of in-office working, with the improved comfort of working from home.

    If anyone is aware of any decent models, let me know.

    Some of our admin team work from home, and their appraisals were interesting. Some had higher productivity and fewer errors, others the opposite. It is very person and site specific.
    Working in an office is highly regarded by managers who've risen to their position by being good at working in an office shock.
    Folk are different.
    We aren't all David Brent surprise.
  • ihuntihunt Posts: 146
    rcs1000 said:

    ihunt said:

    algarkirk said:

    pigeon said:

    FPT:


    I'd have no problem with the triple lock being swapped to finance higher defence spending.

    In fact, I'd view it as wholly appropriate.

    I agree however just 4 minutes ago.

    NEW: Cabinet Office Minister Brendan Clarke-Smith tells @JPonpolitics on @TimesRadio pensioners can breathe easily tonight on a their pensions being up-rated inline with with inflation:

    "We want to look after our pensioners. The triple lock was a manifesto commitment"


    https://twitter.com/HenryTribe/status/1582432983675703297
    Doesn’t mean they can't be taxed. (Or does it; I've never bothered to understand it)
    They could be but they won't. The Tories will never attack what they perceive as their client vote. At least I don't think they will. Hunt may prove me wrong in which case more power to him.

    What is daft is that there will be a significant portion of those pensioners and near pensioners who can look beyond their own self interest and realise their benefits come at the expense of their children and grandchildren. I actually think the smack back against any government who got rid of the triple lock or starting taxing pensioners would be no where near as bad as politicians and pundits think. I would love to be proved right on this but I doubt I will get the chance.
    As I wrote earlier, Dick, Hunt has a once in a generation opportunity to rid us of the Lock. I think he'll do it, but you may be right so I won't fall off my bathchair if he doesn't.
    Indeed. I do desperately want to be wrong about this and see a politician do something because it is the right thing to do for the country rather even though they think it will be politically damaging to them. Hunt, for all the criticism directed at him in the past, might be the person to grasp this rare opportunity.

    Who knows, he might even get to like the idea and start taking some more of the electorally damaging but correct decisions for the long term good of the country.
    In this discussion Hunt is being assigned agency he does not have. There are not the votes in the Commons to remove the triple lock. Labour will vote against as would at least 50 Tory MPs, probably a lot more.
    I am not so sure about that. Of course you may well be right but I think the mood at the moment is such that he could get away with it. Indeed it is worth remembering that when the vote on the Triple lock came before the house last September, Labour did not support retaining it. Instead they abstained. So there is at least some element of realism at work there.
    We all know how a budget vote on ending the triple lock will turn out. Labour will decide, after careful consideration, that making poor, vulnerable pensioners with scarcely two pennies to rub together pay the cost of the Kamikwazi budget and multi-million pound bonuses for evil City bankers is abhorrent, and vote against.

    All the Tory backbenchers will then be made to leave their fingerprints on the bloody knife. They do it, bye bye grey vote. They refuse, general election. Checkmate, crown Starmer King.
    There hasn't been quite enough discussion about what SKS and Labour would actually do when in government about the impossible task facing them - much the same as the impossible task facing Hunt's government. Winning the next GE is the easy bit.

    i remember last time labour got in and the tories were wiped out nationalist parties like the bnp and later ukip started to have electoral success. The BNP made big breakthroughs in the 2002 to 2006 period when the Tories were moribund...now we have a much worse economic situation so something like that could well happen again this time on a bigger scale
    I went to the local election pages of the BBC to see the extent of this BNP surge:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/vote2002/local_elections/atoz.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2003/locals/html/atoz.stm#s
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_United_Kingdom_local_elections

    And weirdly, other than 13 councillors in 2003, there didn't seem to be any surge
    Think they got about 30 gains in 2006 and took control of barking and dagenham council...so yes there was a surge
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



    Though looking at the photos in the round, why would anyone want to spend any more time there than they had to? It looks like slab - wide road - slab. Not much to engage with, or that can make the soul sing. In their different ways, the Square Mile, Docklands and old Seville have got enough density and texture to give the eye lots of somethings to look at.

    Has anywhere done that and left enough space for cars to flow and park sufficiently freely?
    Except there is also a really nice handsome preserved Victorian downtown bit - steam cleaned bricks and wooden floors, classic preservation stuff - and it is nearly as bad

    My guide was a charming old dude and he was in mild despair. It is not a good thing if your cities die. Just isn’t. Working From Home is a fucking disaster for the human soul
    Don’t you work from home?
    Working from home should be for the elites, not the plebs!

    The World has changed - the genie is out. WFH is here to stay,
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952

    While in the great Centennial State, Leon should head up to Woody Creek and pay homage to that great PB icon, Dr. Hunter S. Thompson.

    Edit - Icon AND role model?

    For instance, have always sensed strong native affinity between HST and Big_G_NorthWales.


    I met a guy that knew Hunter S Thompson at lunch today

    @rcs1000 will be pleased to hear it was at Wynkoop
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Foxy said:

    I am starting a new role in January and some of it is going to be trying to work out how to balance the collaborative productivity of in-office working, with the improved comfort of working from home.

    If anyone is aware of any decent models, let me know.

    Some of our admin team work from home, and their appraisals were interesting. Some had higher productivity and fewer errors, others the opposite. It is very person and site specific.
    I work, very broadly speaking, in a creative profession. In-person collaboration is indispensable. There is also a need to work client-side occasionally.

    I’m leaning toward a multi-modal policy, set by project leads, who can choose from two or three options.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



    Though looking at the photos in the round, why would anyone want to spend any more time there than they had to? It looks like slab - wide road - slab. Not much to engage with, or that can make the soul sing. In their different ways, the Square Mile, Docklands and old Seville have got enough density and texture to give the eye lots of somethings to look at.

    Has anywhere done that and left enough space for cars to flow and park sufficiently freely?
    Except there is also a really nice handsome preserved Victorian downtown bit - steam cleaned bricks and wooden floors, classic preservation stuff - and it is nearly as bad

    My guide was a charming old dude and he was in mild despair. It is not a good thing if your cities die. Just isn’t. Working From Home is a fucking disaster for the human soul
    Don’t you work from home?
    Friend, the WORLD is my home
    Citizens of Nowhere are the traitors. T May said so....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Tres said:

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I hunkered down like it was the Harrods Sale, and watched the European Research Group arrive in dribs, drabs and the occasional straightjacket.

    These are the true believers: if they’re angry at Liz for anything, it’s for not keeping the mini-Budget. Lord Frost, John Redwood, Kate Hoey, Jacob, Fabbers, the magnificent David Campell Bannerman dragging a suitcase - full, no doubt, of Monetarist literature - and Steve “Muscles” Baker.

    Sir William Cash spread his arms like Jolson, and sang, “Here we goooo!”


    @Richard_Tyndall - that’s you, that is.
    Says the man who believes Putin invaded Ukraine because of Brexit. Face it Gammonwalker your credibility is shot.
    That’s ridiculous

    Putin invaded Ukraine because of the repeal of the Corn Laws.
    Actually I believe that Putin and Zelensky had a disagreement over the truth or falsehood of the miracle of transubstantiation. Though granted I've no idea on which sides of the dispute the two men found themselves.
    Actually it was over the Schleswig-Holstein question. Only three men ever knew the answer. One is dead, one has forgotten, and the other is @Richard_Tyndall
    took a european war to solve that question
    As predicted by David Cameron of course.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,952
    “the English word civilisation comes from the 16th-century French civilisé ("civilized"), from Latin civilis ("civil"), related to civis ("citizen") and civitas ("city").”

    If we let our cities die, then our civilisation dies with it

    Get back in the office you fucking plebs
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



    Though looking at the photos in the round, why would anyone want to spend any more time there than they had to? It looks like slab - wide road - slab. Not much to engage with, or that can make the soul sing. In their different ways, the Square Mile, Docklands and old Seville have got enough density and texture to give the eye lots of somethings to look at.

    Has anywhere done that and left enough space for cars to flow and park sufficiently freely?
    Except there is also a really nice handsome preserved Victorian downtown bit - steam cleaned bricks and wooden floors, classic preservation stuff - and it is nearly as bad

    My guide was a charming old dude and he was in mild despair. It is not a good thing if your cities die. Just isn’t. Working From Home is a fucking disaster for the human soul
    Don’t you work from home?
    Working from home should be for the elites, not the plebs!

    The World has changed - the genie is out. WFH is here to stay,
    Complete 100% WFH is as depressing as complete 100% working in the office, though.

    All things in moderation, or some such shite.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,476
    Roger said:

    Kirsty Walk to Robert Buckland.........

    "What did you see in Liz Truss that made you change your support from Rishi Sunak to her?"

    “So what first attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels?”
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    edited October 2022
    It was evident that Truss' survival was barely 50-50 on back of the reaction to the budget. Once she sacked Kwarteng then the survival odds got less. The other day I reckoned the markets going forward might have as big as role to play as Conservativbe MPs. If the markets kept going for the throat against UK PLC then that was it, she wouldnt survive because it would have been a clear statement of no confidence until the PM was gone. Truss aint bigger than the economy and only a total swivel eyed tool believes that.

    Now there is at least a bit of softening of marklet sentiment, even if the damage will take a lot longer to repair so now its down to the parliamentary party to get their act together, forget about infighting and get on with it. It appears the majority of the membership arent going to rebel.

    The question is, whos the safe hands going to be?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,578
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA

    But they don’t live up in the sometimes-lovely mountains. They all live in endless identikit suburbs that sprawl around Denver city/downtown. I’ve seen them. Sometimes they come in at night to drink but by day it is a zombie city and - so the guide told me - city businesses that held out during the pandemic hoping things would return are now giving up

    A culture that abandons its city centres is in secular decline. It’s what happened to Roman Britain in the 4th century just before Rome quit for good

    It’s paradoxical. Americans all say they want a lovable walkable city that is more like Europe. But they don’t do anything to make that happen, they do the opposite. And they insist on driving private cars, which ultimately kills cities

    The contrast with happily bustling central Seville a few weeks ago is stark
    Yet Denver is many times richer than Seville.
    Economically, at least.

    Denver is vastly richer on paper. And you can feel the money in the nice quality new buildings. The modern stonework. There is very little graffiti. At its best it feels like a more demotic Zurich

    Except: zero people. None. I’d much much rather be in beautiful Seville with its happy buzzing atmosphere. This is creepy

    Amazingly, the guide told me it is WORSE in the Denver CBD with the skyscrapers

    Here’s an office across the road from my hotel. Tuesday at 3pm. Not a soul in there



    I'm not sure whether that is better or worse than San Francisco with its heaps of steaming human excrement, and mental health/meth casualties on every block being studiously ignored by precarious middle class work drones.
  • ihuntihunt Posts: 146
    Russian Telegram is full of rumors that Putin will declare martial law and close all of the borders tomorrow.

    https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1582472547505143808?s=20&t=m9JuUVFmOmExXq1BT6k59g
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,270
    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.

    The shadow cabinet are generally terrible.

    And infinitely better at every position than the actual cabinet
    Indeed. The state of British politics is shocking. Where are the the heavyweights of old?
    It's easy enough to think that politicians were better when one was younger. But, I think it's true. Most modern politicians are frivolous (and it's not restricted to this country).

    The French, German, and US political class are also a shadow of what they were.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899

    glw said:

    FPT:

    What people actually think about Brexit, rather than simplistic binary choices.

    https://institute.global/policy/moving-how-british-public-views-brexit-and-what-it-wants-future-relationship-european-union

    Well worth reading, even if you don't like the source.

    Over two-thirds of voters (70 per cent) think that, over the medium term, the UK should have a closer relationship with the EU than what we have today, but only a third of the public think that the UK should seek membership of the EU single market at the minimum.


    That's hardly a public endorsement for joining the EU as it actually is, rather than the romantic utopian view die-hard Remainers have.
    As someone who voted Leave, I looked at the result and was quite dismayed at where we ended up.
    48% of people wanted to Remain, so my view was we should've seriously considered EEA or EFTA+
    To leave both the EU and stay outside of EFTA as well was not, in my opinion, delivering what was broadly voted for.

    And given the events in Russia and the Ukraine, I personally think like Finland and Sweden joining NATO that we should rejoin EFTA.

    Maybe Labour will do that.... who knows......
    This was my argument from the day after the referendum. Actually, it was my argument well before but unlike some I did stick to this conviction. I still think it is where our final destination will be although not soon enough to save me the £100 bet I had with Richard Nabavi at the time.

    It is also the reason why we will not rejoin the EU. And it is the only way in which Brexit will, finally, be settled.
    I've long believed that we'd end up in EFTA or an analogue of it. Because it made the most sense if you wanted maximise public contentment, or alternately minimise the discontent. The one thing I've never been able to figure out is how long it would take the exhausted maximalists on both sides to thrown in the towel. They are not quite there yet, maybe it will require a couple of more electoral maulings.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,614

    moonshine said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    murali_s said:

    As much as I want an immediate GE, it’s simply not going to happen. The Tories are smart enough to play the long game. Starmar is pretty hopeless as the YouGov net favourability ratings show; yes, he may be significantly better than the actors from the filth that is Tory party but the guy has zero political awareness.

    Starmer is the best Labour leader since Tony Blair.
    That’s almost certainly true, though the competition isn’t that tough.

    Remarkably since Blair came to power Labour have had 4 leaders (Brown, Miliband, Corbyn, Starmer) and the Conservatives 7 (Hague, IDS, Howard, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and about to embark on an 8th).

    Starmer does seem to be someone who improves with time, and shows signs of learning from events. His authority has also slowly but surely grown in the party. Look how he’s mended the relationship with Angela Rayner so the two of them are now quite an effective double act.
    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.
    Fake news.
    It’s probably the best Labour front bench since late Blair.
    Would like to agree, but on what I've heard....Maybe I just happened to listen to the wrong ones.
    I used to be a profound Keir skeptic.
    I also used to be very suspicious of the Labour front bench.

    I’ve grudgingly changed my mind on both.

    Nandy, Streeting, Reeves, Phillipson, Lammy, Cooper, Ashworth…

    Add Bryant and Benn (potentially) and you have a high-calibre team.

    Rayner is not really my cup of tea, but I appreciate she reaches places others don’t.

    Starmer’s energy policy should highlight to anyone paying attention that he (and/or his team) have no idea whatsoever what they’re doing. That doesn’t mean he’ll be electorally unsuccessful, at least initially. But it is a clue as to how competent an administration he would likely run.
    It's the policy more or less implemented now by the government. I understand you don't like it; plenty of grown-ups think it's the right thing to do.
    So what you're saying is that the way to judge whether a policy is sound is by whether this government is implementing it? And if this government is implementing the policy, then that is competent and the grown up thing to do?

    Its a view. 🤔
    You know very well that's not what I am saying.

    I was pointing out in March/April that the Energy price cap was going to need to be frozen. It was the only sensible approach. The Lib Dems and then Labour adopted it way back when your preferred Tory leader was telling us she wasn't going to do it (several u-turns ago).

    Typically this government has not yet addressed the funding (which my proposal did) but they are inching closer and I wouldn't be surprised to see both windfall taxes on energy companies and increased taxes on the wealthy being implement in time (as per my proposals).

    Your alternative proposal is...?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    edited October 2022
    Sean_F said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Starmer is ok. More of a problem is the quality of the Shadow Cabinet generally.

    The shadow cabinet are generally terrible.

    And infinitely better at every position than the actual cabinet
    Indeed. The state of British politics is shocking. Where are the the heavyweights of old?
    It's easy enough to think that politicians were better when one was younger. But, I think it's true. Most modern politicians are frivolous (and it's not restricted to this country).

    The French, German, and US political class are also a shadow of what they were.
    Also, NZ.

    I always laugh when I see the plaudits for Jacinda Ardern.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,383
    edited October 2022
    Losing my most highly valued TA this week. She's absolutely super with the most damaged and disruptive kids.
    Going back to care because she can't afford the loss of pay due to the school holidays. And because she can't be put on the minimum wage payroll due to no GSCE's. Therefore no holiday or sick pay.
    We start from scratch after half term. All progress lost while the Tory Party wanks about Corporation Tax.
    Going to set 2 or 3 really tricky kids back a whole half term.
    Am thinking what's the point?
    Working class Party my absolute arse.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,614
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    “the English word civilisation comes from the 16th-century French civilisé ("civilized"), from Latin civilis ("civil"), related to civis ("citizen") and civitas ("city").”

    If we let our cities die, then our civilisation dies with it

    Get back in the office you fucking plebs

    Says the man who by his own admission has never done a day's work in an office in his life. 🤔
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,464
    dixiedean said:

    Philip Blond is utterly deluded.
    The Tories the Party of the working class? My arse.

    Sheffield Hallam and Hampstead are Labour seats. West Bromwich and Stoke-on-Trent are Tory seats atm.
  • For PBers who are NOT familiar with Denver and it's environs, check out pictorial map at this link:

    https://i.redd.it/t29p032x3an21.jpg

    BTW, Aspen (with Woody Creek nearby) is at top left
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,751
    edited October 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    America is fucked





    If you lived in Colorado though, with some of the most beautiful natural scenery in the world, would you really want to work in Denver every day rather than work at home and admire the view? If you want a big city lifestyle you would move to New York or Chicago or LA
    Denver exists for people who like to spend their entire time in the mountains, but have day jobs.

    Almost everyone I know there has a second place - usually just a two or three room cabin - out in the mountains.
    Seattle is quite similar. With boating as alternative to mountaineering.

    Also similar issue regarding downtown.

    Though we do get a LOT of tourists, most visibly in relation to cruise ships to Alaska & back. Their returning to business has helped downtown SEA.

    BTW, Leon, have you been to the State Capitol yet? Always wanted to go there & stand at the Mile High marker!
    I went in 2011 :)

    image
This discussion has been closed.