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Day 41 of the Truss premiership and some terrible front pages – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    Dear oh dear. Will this simple simon tripe never cease?
    Aha. Baited. Hooked.
    Oh well if you know it's tripe and are just seeking a response, that's slightly different and a lesser offence. Been known to do similar. Could even be classed a service. You need a bit a tripe to grist the mill of PB ... so ok as you were with your "left the EU to become a free sovereign nation" tripe.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    I agree but we have to remember that Charles is quite old (and not doing nearly as well as his mother or father did in respect of ageing), seriously stupid and quite new at the job. It is completely unrealistic that he is going to perform to the impeccable standards of his mother but he will hopefully improve.
    'seriously stupid'

    Lol!
    Were Victoria and Elisabeth the only two properly smart British monarchs of the last 200 years? Even longer maybe..
    Charles is an intellectual, he is not stupid. The Queen was not an intellectual even if maybe she had more common sense
    Charles is a poor successor to HMQ and frankly I do not listen to much he says, nor appreciate the way he allows people to bow to him

    Utter nonsense in these modern times
    You also bowed to the Queen, it is protocol when meeting the monarch
    I have never bowed to anyone other than when I was in Japan and it is a mutual custom in that country
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    I agree but we have to remember that Charles is quite old (and not doing nearly as well as his mother or father did in respect of ageing), seriously stupid and quite new at the job. It is completely unrealistic that he is going to perform to the impeccable standards of his mother but he will hopefully improve.
    'seriously stupid'

    Lol!
    Were Victoria and Elisabeth the only two properly smart British monarchs of the last 200 years? Even longer maybe..
    Charles is an intellectual, he is not stupid. The Queen was not an intellectual even if maybe she had more common sense
    He did the BRNC commissioning course for Surface Warfare/Aviation officers in 6 weeks instead of the 49 weeks it normally takes. Genius.
    The result of which, was going to be obvious…
    I was Red Air on a QWI course at Leuchers that day. The sheer, unadulterated panic that erupted when the news broke that PC had crashed a 146 on Craggy Island was really something.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    The only claim that anyone has to the Koh-I-Noor diamond is that their forebears looted it. That it is as true of India as any other claimant.

    The only people who get really worked up about it are people who don't really have much in their lives to worry about.

    All concerns that you don't share are kind of trivial in the grand scheme, aren't they?
    It's not an issue that makes a difference to anybody's life, is it?
    Ah but I was diagnosing a general trait of yours. It's quite interesting.
  • Actually, the Queen taking the piss out of Gordon Brown in front of President Sarkozy was probably the bigger faux pas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w64OETtpm6c
  • HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    I'm on record as saying King Charles III will be a total disaster and I stand by that prediction.
    The King has had a far better start to his reign than Truss has had to her premiership
    That is the lowest bar possible
    Tony Adams start on Strictly?
    Not even Tony Adams
  • kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Hahahahahaha. I love the fact you actually believe that.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    nico679 said:

    Over 7 million now on NHS waiting lists.

    The Tories will blame covid but it’s only exacerbated an already dire situation.

    Is there a breakdown of what these 7m are waiting for? And is it 7m waiting or say 5m waiting for 7m procedures?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    I agree but we have to remember that Charles is quite old (and not doing nearly as well as his mother or father did in respect of ageing), seriously stupid and quite new at the job. It is completely unrealistic that he is going to perform to the impeccable standards of his mother but he will hopefully improve.
    'seriously stupid'

    Lol!
    Were Victoria and Elisabeth the only two properly smart British monarchs of the last 200 years? Even longer maybe..
    Charles is an intellectual, he is not stupid. The Queen was not an intellectual even if maybe she had more common sense
    He did the BRNC commissioning course for Surface Warfare/Aviation officers in 6 weeks instead of the 49 weeks it normally takes. Genius.
    The result of which, was going to be obvious…
    I was Red Air on a QWI course at Leuchers that day. The sheer, unadulterated panic that erupted when the news broke that PC had crashed a 146 on Craggy Island was really something.
    Let they who have never totalled vehicles cast the first stones...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    nico679 said:

    Over 7 million now on NHS waiting lists.

    The Tories will blame covid but it’s only exacerbated an already dire situation.

    Both are correct. I believe that a lot of these are minor things (important to the patient) so its perhaps not as bad as it sounds - for instance a lot are day surgery, rather than 7 million hip replacements. I also wonder how many are on the list more than once? It might be 7 million 'things; but only 1 million patients. (Probably too few, but you get the idea).

    We still need to have the discussion in this country about how to best sort healthcare. The NHS is not at the top of money spent by comparison to other equivalent nations and I think it shows. Yet try to increase taxes to fund it more is challenging. Perhaps an incoming Starmer government could do this. I think it is time to think the unthinkable, look at how European nations organise their healthcare and learn from the best practice. As long as you maintain the free at the point of need, I would not object to a more insurance based system. At least you would see directly where your tax/insurance goes.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    Jimmy Carr with a flamethrower, threatening to destroy works of art bought (when you consider TV show funding mechanism) using tax payers money, whilst audience shout Higher! Lower! or something. 🤮
    Ian Katz, from the Gaurdiun, now Channel 4’s director of programming - who wants to destroy Art works just for attention seeking and ratings - What a Twat. Must be put in jail in my opinion.

    Obviously I don’t wish to prejudice a fair trial and due judicial process etc etc, but he must end up in jail after it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    "If the 22 changed the rules, we'd hit the threshold for a confidence vote in a couple of hours", a Tory MP tells me.

    Safe to say the mood is sulphurous in parliament this morning


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1580493478823280640
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    Over 7 million now on NHS waiting lists.

    The Tories will blame covid but it’s only exacerbated an already dire situation.

    Is there a breakdown of what these 7m are waiting for? And is it 7m waiting or say 5m waiting for 7m procedures?
    I can’t find a breakdown on what people are waiting for but the 7m is patients waiting for treatment .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Scott_xP said:

    "If the 22 changed the rules, we'd hit the threshold for a confidence vote in a couple of hours", a Tory MP tells me.

    Safe to say the mood is sulphurous in parliament this morning


    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1580493478823280640

    Well they are a bunch of farts.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    I think talk like this is very dangerous. It's tantamount to giving Putin permission to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

    The Kyiv Independent
    @KyivIndependent
    ·
    18m
    ⚡️ Macron: France won’t strike Russia if it nukes Ukraine.

    "Our doctrine is based on the fundamental interests of (our) nation, and they are clearly defined. If there were a nuclear ballistic attack in Ukraine, these interests would not be called into question," said Macron.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1580481219564687360

    WTF is the context and reason for this? A crazy thing to say out loud. Imagine if you’re Ukrainian - reading that
    He misheard the question, thought it was about the UK, not the Ukraine...
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    What annoys me reading tonight is that all the blame for where we are is being put on truss and kwasi. Have they made things worse certainly they have and I have no liking for either.

    However where we are is the end point of 30 odd years of centrist social democratic style governement. It has left millions in this country unable to live despite working 40 hours a week without having to rely on governement handouts or food banks or both.

    Most of that time spent within the EU before anyone goes yeah but brexit. Centrist governments have failed a lot of people in this country while companies and their directors made out like bandits. The difference now is it is beginning to hit people on this board most of whom weren't in those bottom cohorts so now you are starting to cry and whine about it.

    Welcome to the poorhouse you deserve it.

    Forget Brexit.

    What is it you propose?

    Where is prospering, and what policies have they implemented that are appropriate for the UK?

    And there are two massive headwinds you need to at the very least acknowledge.

    Firstly, there's demographics.
    Secondly, there's all the people in the world - and we're not talking immigrants - who are prepared to do your job for less.

    I don't believe anywhere in the west is prospering when you consider the life of the median citizen, they are finding housing costs rising, tax rising,energy price rising and food rising all more than their pay over the last 3 to 4 decades. All the west has been doing the social democratic lie of we can have more and more public services but not raise tax and funded it through borrowing. UK, germany, france etc.

    Time to be realistic. We need to fund those public services we consider essential properly. We need to stop putting the cost of that on generations unborn. What we cant fund we need to tell people I am sorry we cant fund that and cut it.

    I laid out the 5 tenets of where I come from.

    Personally I prefer a small state but the 5 principles I think is where we need to be before we even talk about small state vs big state....fiscal stability
    I wrote a piece of research about six or seven years ago which said pretty much the same thing:

    For much of the post war period, developed countries – and their citizens – had it pretty good.

    Unemployment was negligible, crime low, and each generation successively richer. A German, Japanese or American father could look down on his children and feel confident that their lives would be better than his.

    But then something changed. The children of the 2000s ceased being wealthier than their parents. And while incomes had apparently risen, so had the prices of petrol, of energy and of rent. While families of the 1970s could survive - or even prosper – with one working parent, it now required two. Young people were leaving college with ever larger amounts of debt and failing to find the kind of
    secure, well paid jobs their father’s had.

    We see these trends wherever we look. Take the US, generally considered (by us in Europe at least) to have been the most successful developed economy in the world in the recent past. According to the US Federal Reserve, real median household income is down almost 10% since peaking in 1999.

    That’s an unprecedented reduction, and is all the more shocking in the context of a country where headline GDP growth has been relatively strong.
    Three UK structural observations:

    1) As the rewards for employment have fallen, the returns on capital have increased dramatically (especially true in the USA btw)

    2) Income is taxed very heavily, capital is taxed relatively lightly and land not taxed at all.

    3) The efficiency of government spending has collapsed as public services are no longer controlled by the taxpayer.

    These problems date at least to the end of the 1960s.

    Major reforms of employment are needed, including promoting self employment and small businesses. A major shift in the tax system is needed including an increase in wealth and capital taxes and a sharp reduction of the income tax burden. Major administrative reform is needed, including radical decentralization and a simplification of the role of the state.

    At 10 million words, the UK still has the longest tax code in the world. Aiming to cut that would be a massive task, but the fiscal burden of administration is most definitely "anti-growth". We need a whole new approach, but our politics doesn´t even understand the question. Hence in order to address the economic crisis, we need to address the failures of our politics.

    There can be no prosperity without reform.
    Well said, which is why Liz Truss was a breath of fresh air in the leadership contest.

    There is an urgent need to vastly simply the tax code, move government income from earnings to land, allow more taxes to be raised locally, and a proper zero-based review of government spending.

    I had high hopes for the next few months, but the reluctance of the Tory MPs to engage with the project and support the leader they chose, is hugely disappointing.

    It now sadly looks like we’ll muddle on for two years, until an election that gives us Starmer as PM and five more years of Blairism, or what Amercians describe as the “Uniparty” or the “Global Consensus” that exists primarily for the political donors and “The 1%”, with no-one prepared to take any risks.
    Amusing article from 2015 on Britain's world-beating tax code
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/13/britain-tax-code-17000-pages-long-dog-whistle-very-rich
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,332
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    Dear oh dear. Will this simple simon tripe never cease?
    Aha. Baited. Hooked.
    Oh well if you know it's tripe and are just seeking a response, that's slightly different and a lesser offence. Been known to do similar. Could even be classed a service. You need a bit a tripe to grist the mill of PB ... so ok as you were with your "left the EU to become a free sovereign nation" tripe.
    No it’s both. I believe this to be completely true. We were not free and sovereign in the EU, now we are (or at least, to a significantly greater extent). Thanks to Brexit

    But I only shoved the reference in there to get a peevish reaction from people like you, thus wasting 17 seconds of your stupid dwindling life. I see that as a victory, in the greater scheme
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    Changing the electoral system is nothing to do with Brexit.

    In fact, the EU would probably prefer us to have a more democratic electoral system.
  • HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    I'm on record as saying King Charles III will be a total disaster and I stand by that prediction.
    The King has had a far better start to his reign than Truss has had to her premiership
    That is the lowest bar possible
    Tony Adams start on Strictly?
    Not even Tony Adams
    Fair. You have to go back to Anne Widdecombe. Either on Strictly or as a minister, take your pick.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    I agree but we have to remember that Charles is quite old (and not doing nearly as well as his mother or father did in respect of ageing), seriously stupid and quite new at the job. It is completely unrealistic that he is going to perform to the impeccable standards of his mother but he will hopefully improve.
    'seriously stupid'

    Lol!
    Were Victoria and Elisabeth the only two properly smart British monarchs of the last 200 years? Even longer maybe..
    Charles is an intellectual, he is not stupid. The Queen was not an intellectual even if maybe she had more common sense
    He did the BRNC commissioning course for Surface Warfare/Aviation officers in 6 weeks instead of the 49 weeks it normally takes. Genius.
    The result of which, was going to be obvious…
    I was Red Air on a QWI course at Leuchers that day. The sheer, unadulterated panic that erupted when the news broke that PC had crashed a 146 on Craggy Island was really something.
    LOL, watching the top brass jump would have been funny. Look forward to the day you can tell the actual story, and the poor bugger who lost his instructor rating because the BoI couldn’t put the blame where it belonged.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Leon said:

    Apparently Macron had to say this because French public opinion is freaking out about nuclear war

    But he could surely have found a better way of phrasing it than this. Calamitously awkward

    The quote seems selective because it doesn't mention nuclear. If he's talking about nuclear, of course France wouldn't nuke Russia for using a nuke in Ukraine - not would we, nor would America.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    Looks like a Ukrainian drone took out a Russian one by smashing its rotors.

    Serhiy Prytula
    @serhiyprytula
    WW1-style duel. Ukrainan Mavic-drone, which we have delivered to one of the airborne units in Donetsk region, destroyes russian opponent. Amazing!


    https://mobile.twitter.com/serhiyprytula/status/1580490706560626688
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Hahahahahaha. I love the fact you actually believe that.
    In what way were we not? Being in the EU meant we were committed to stuff just like all other treaties and we were free to leave subject to the terms of the treaties, just like all other treaties.

    There was nothing magic about the EU other than it was by far the most complex of arrangements.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the
    calamity of her first month in office!
    You’ve changed

    Truss is a libertarian not a Tory who is trashing the party and leading it sleepwalking to its worst defeat since 1832 on current polls.

    She has until the local elections to turn it round or she is gone
    Why should it be the poor local councillors who have to be stuck with the fork to tell us what we all know

    "Yep, she's done...."

    Get rid before Christmas, start the New Year as afresh as this parliamentary party can muster.
    Boris and May only went after poor local election results in May 2019 and May 2022 respectively, Truss will likely be the same
    Come on. Boris and May did not go because of poor local election results.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    I agree but we have to remember that Charles is quite old (and not doing nearly as well as his mother or father did in respect of ageing), seriously stupid and quite new at the job. It is completely unrealistic that he is going to perform to the impeccable standards of his mother but he will hopefully improve.
    'seriously stupid'

    Lol!
    Were Victoria and Elisabeth the only two properly smart British monarchs of the last 200 years? Even longer maybe..
    Elizabeth has left the Monarchy a completely different and significantly less important institution than it was when she inherited it. We are a much more democratic country now and the Monarch has become a decorative, if useful, part of our evolving constitution. That is as it should be in a modern state.

    If Charles accepts that then he will do fine but I think that he has been deluded about the significance of the Monarch by what he saw in his childhood 60 odd years ago and the flummery of PM chats, kissing hands, red boxes and other nonsense. As @Leon has pointed out being intelligent in the current role of Monarch would be almost cruel. Fortunately this is a relatively low risk for a Windsor.
    I think he needs a grand project to get involved in. The building of a new city for example.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    Changing the electoral system is nothing to do with Brexit.

    In fact, the EU would probably prefer us to have a more democratic electoral system.
    Perhaps the EU could set an example for all by moving to being democratic, and no being able to elect MEP's doesn't make it democratic in the least as MEP's have no real clout in the EU.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,332
    Oof. About to go to Heathrow for an agreeable and extended trip abroad


    But a couple of faint symptoms of covid. And I have been socialising a fair bit recently


    MORAL DILEMMA

    Ignore the symptoms (they are minor) get on the plane and see more of the world?

    Or take a test, risk a positive: be forced to stay home and also inconvenience quite a few people?

  • Leon said:

    Apparently Macron had to say this because French public opinion is freaking out about nuclear war

    But he could surely have found a better way of phrasing it than this. Calamitously awkward

    The quote seems selective because it doesn't mention nuclear. If he's talking about nuclear, of course France wouldn't nuke Russia for using a nuke in Ukraine - not would we, nor would America.
    We absolutely should, 100%. We made guarantees to Ukraine when they disarmed their own nukes, and we should honour our word by holding them under our nuclear shield if it gets that far.

    And Putin should be in no doubt about that, so if he chooses to nuke Ukraine he knows we will take it as seriously as him choosing to nuke London.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Buy candles

    “It’s very unlikely that we’ll see the conditions that would lead to blackouts” - climate minister @grahamstuart tells the Energy UK conference.

    #eukconf22 https://twitter.com/jameskirkup/status/1580494672803205122/photo/1
  • .
    Leon said:

    Oof. About to go to Heathrow for an agreeable and extended trip abroad


    But a couple of faint symptoms of covid. And I have been socialising a fair bit recently


    MORAL DILEMMA

    Ignore the symptoms (they are minor) get on the plane and see more of the world?

    Or take a test, risk a positive: be forced to stay home and also inconvenience quite a few people?

    No dilemma, get on the plane. Testing is not required anymore.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    edited October 2022
    When A&E Stats were first recorded in current format October 2010 there were precisely Zero / Nil/ Nada people waiting 12 hrs

    12 years later the same figure shows more than 32.000 (9.6% of everyone attending) waited more than 12 hrs

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/ae-waiting-times-and-activity/ae-attendances-and-emergency-admissions-2022-23/
  • kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
    Perverse logic.

    If Scotland had Yes in 2014 would that have rather proven the point that they were sovereign pre-2014?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Health Secretary @theresecoffey says nurses won't get > 3% pay offer. As @theRCN ballots for a #NursesStrike they can count on support of 54% of the public in latest #deltapolloftheday @DeltapollUK poll. Just 31% are opposed to nurses striking. Results at http://www.deltapoll.co.uk
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    Dear oh dear. Will this simple simon tripe never cease?
    Aha. Baited. Hooked.
    Oh well if you know it's tripe and are just seeking a response, that's slightly different and a lesser offence. Been known to do similar. Could even be classed a service. You need a bit a tripe to grist the mill of PB ... so ok as you were with your "left the EU to become a free sovereign nation" tripe.
    No it’s both. I believe this to be completely true. We were not free and sovereign in the EU, now we are (or at least, to a significantly greater extent). Thanks to Brexit

    But I only shoved the reference in there to get a peevish reaction from people like you, thus wasting 17 seconds of your stupid dwindling life. I see that as a victory, in the greater scheme
    Somewhat ironic that my comment on the subject appeared immediately below this!
    As I wrote it I thought "Clickbait ".
  • kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
    We have had this debate many times before and the only result is that it proves you Eurofanatics don't understand basic English and think it is possible to change the meaning of words haphazardly to suit your political view. It is the height of idiocy.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2022

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    I agree but we have to remember that Charles is quite old (and not doing nearly as well as his mother or father did in respect of ageing), seriously stupid and quite new at the job. It is completely unrealistic that he is going to perform to the impeccable standards of his mother but he will hopefully improve.
    'seriously stupid'

    Lol!
    Were Victoria and Elisabeth the only two properly smart British monarchs of the last 200 years? Even longer maybe..
    Charles is an intellectual, he is not stupid. The Queen was not an intellectual even if maybe she had more common sense
    Charles is a poor successor to HMQ and frankly I do not listen to much he says, nor appreciate the way he allows people to bow to him

    Utter nonsense in these modern times
    I am sure Charles is polite enough to allow people to do what they want they they see him- are you saying he should be rude enough to say they CANNOT bow or curtsy? ie dictate what they do in his presense? For most people, even VIPS meeting the monarch is a big deal and many like to mark it by showing that respect -
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    Here is an off the wall suggestion

    A governement introduces a concept of a minimum mortgage interest rate which ratchets up and down with the base rate, say for example making mortgages cost 2% more per year than currently.

    The 2% extra interest goes to the treasury
    The minimum mortgage percentage also acts as a dampener on rising house prices
    Could even have a different minimum rate for BTL mortgages thats a little higher
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    If James Cleverly is already having to say “changing PM would be disastrous” on the media rounds (per BBC top story) then she is already toast. The seed has been planted. It is now just a matter of timing.

    Penny is looking more and more like a decent shout to me. I thought it would be impossible given the rather catty attacks that various ministers came out with during the leadership contest about her being essentially sh*t at her job, but her whole “all about the team/less about the captain” shtick probably actually works quite well in current times.

    They could do worse than having her as a “first among equals” PM with a cabinet from all wings of the party. Have May, Gove, Rishi, Hunt, DD, heck even IDS (as a sop to the ERG) back in cabinet.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Leon said:

    Apparently Macron had to say this because French public opinion is freaking out about nuclear war

    But he could surely have found a better way of phrasing it than this. Calamitously awkward

    The quote seems selective because it doesn't mention nuclear. If he's talking about nuclear, of course France wouldn't nuke Russia for using a nuke in Ukraine - not would we, nor would America.
    We absolutely should, 100%. We made guarantees to Ukraine when they disarmed their own nukes, and we should honour our word by holding them under our nuclear shield if it gets that far.

    And Putin should be in no doubt about that, so if he chooses to nuke Ukraine he knows we will take it as seriously as him choosing to nuke London.
    I know you've expressed this view before, and it's absolutely, balls out, shit for brains, Kenny Everett mad. Mad is a cheapened word these days, it doesn't express adequately how stupid that would be.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pagan2 said:

    maxh said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    What annoys me reading tonight is that all the blame for where we are is being put on truss and kwasi. Have they made things worse certainly they have and I have no liking for either.

    However where we are is the end point of 30 odd years of centrist social democratic style governement. It has left millions in this country unable to live despite working 40 hours a week without having to rely on governement handouts or food banks or both.

    Most of that time spent within the EU before anyone goes yeah but brexit. Centrist governments have failed a lot of people in this country while companies and their directors made out like bandits. The difference now is it is beginning to hit people on this board most of whom weren't in those bottom cohorts so now you are starting to cry and whine about it.

    Welcome to the poorhouse you deserve it.

    Forget Brexit.

    What is it you propose?

    Where is prospering, and what policies have they implemented that are appropriate for the UK?

    And there are two massive headwinds you need to at the very least acknowledge.

    Firstly, there's demographics.
    Secondly, there's all the people in the world - and we're not talking immigrants - who are prepared to do your job for less.

    I don't believe anywhere in the west is prospering when you consider the life of the median citizen, they are finding housing costs rising, tax rising,energy price rising and food rising all more than their pay over the last 3 to 4 decades. All the west has been doing the social democratic lie of we can have more and more public services but not raise tax and funded it through borrowing. UK, germany, france etc.

    Time to be realistic. We need to fund those public services we consider essential properly. We need to stop putting the cost of that on generations unborn. What we cant fund we need to tell people I am sorry we cant fund that and cut it.

    I laid out the 5 tenets of where I come from.

    Personally I prefer a small state but the 5 principles I think is where we need to be before we even talk about small state vs big state....fiscal stability
    I wrote a piece of research about six or seven years ago which said pretty much the same thing:

    For much of the post war period, developed countries – and their citizens – had it pretty good.

    Unemployment was negligible, crime low, and each generation successively richer. A German, Japanese or American father could look down on his children and feel confident that their lives would be better than his.

    But then something changed. The children of the 2000s ceased being wealthier than their parents. And while incomes had apparently risen, so had the prices of petrol, of energy and of rent. While families of the 1970s could survive - or even prosper – with one working parent, it now required two. Young people were leaving college with ever larger amounts of debt and failing to find the kind of
    secure, well paid jobs their father’s had.

    We see these trends wherever we look. Take the US, generally considered (by us in Europe at least) to have been the most successful developed economy in the world in the recent past. According to the US Federal Reserve, real median household income is down almost 10% since peaking in 1999.

    That’s an unprecedented reduction, and is all the more shocking in the context of a country where headline GDP growth has been relatively strong.
    The story in the US - replicated to a lesser extent around the rest of the developed world - is that the benefits of that growth have been appropriated mostly by a small group of the rich and powerful, and hence denied from the rest of us.


    I do wonder whether the hypothesis that the
    fall of communism removed the imperative to demonstrate the superiority of capitalism through sharing the benefits of growth more widely, because the potential alternative to capitalism had been defeated and the potential threat to the powerful of revolution went away, has something to it.
    Really interesting thread, thanks pagan for starting it. I’m surprised by the diagnosis of centrist government as the source of the problem, though. To me the source is really quite simple - shareholder capitalism prioritising dividends and short term profit over investment.

    The solution, in my view, is some form of stakeholder capitalism. Employees, customers and local communities (ie those with a long term interest in the growth of a business) owning as large a stake in that business as economically possible.

    I don’t think it’s government that is the problem, though I agree with other parts of your diagnosis.
    I blame centrist social democratic governements because they have served the interests of short term capitalism throughout, served the interests of the propertied with house prices which must be ever inflating, while at the same time heaping more and more on the states platter of things it does while pretending we can have all that for no more tax. It is the government we have had since around 1992 to the fall of governement....a cosy consensus between all main parties just like the eu was.
    From 1970 to 1999, GDP per head grew by 2.5% pa. That way, everyone got get richer more or less, without too much difficulty.

    Since 2000, GDP per head has grown by about 1% a year. Things become more dog eat dog in that environment.
    Yes, but to my mind we are still looking down the wrong end of the telescope. We are more concerned about how a pie that, per capita, is barely growing at all, is distributed than why our economy has been growing so slowly. That part of the Truss/Kwarteng analysis is right: we need more growth. Their prescription to achieve that, however, is bordering on madness both politically and economically.

    There are far too many who are seeking to blame Truss and Kwarteng for really deep underlying problems that governments of all stripes have failed to address in the last 30 years. Some have not even tried. At best the Kamikwase mini budget made things slightly worse at the margins. The underlying problems are huge and I am not seeing any politician even attempting to address them. In particular those who think that everything will be fine again when SKS takes over are just deluding themselves.
    Rishi had a plan to stimulate growth. It was rejected a couple of months back; it might not have worked but is hardly ancient history.
    Rishi had several years as Chancellor to address our lack of growth. They were, in fairness, extremely difficult times dealing with one crisis after another but I did not see any clear evidence of a plan to boost our underlying growth issues.

    Where was tax reform and simplification? He increased the burden of tax on income whilst doing very little to nothing about capital gains or land taxes. He continued the absurd favourtism for the old, indeed his NI plans increased it. Where was the efforts to increase investment or training or skills? Some gestures but nothing more.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
    Perverse logic.

    If Scotland had Yes in 2014 would that have rather proven the point that they were sovereign pre-2014?
    Not the same thing at all.

    If Scotland voted Yes they are still dependent upon the UK to leave. They couldn't just leave, but would have been allowed to leave.

    When we voted to leave the EU the EU could not stop us leaving.

    So the circumstances are very different and the logic is not perverse.

    We were Sovereign before we left, Scotland wasn't. Hence we could just leave and Scotland couldn't.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Looks like a Ukrainian drone took out a Russian one by smashing its rotors.

    Serhiy Prytula
    @serhiyprytula
    WW1-style duel. Ukrainan Mavic-drone, which we have delivered to one of the airborne units in Donetsk region, destroyes russian opponent. Amazing!


    https://mobile.twitter.com/serhiyprytula/status/1580490706560626688

    Some UAF drone jockey appears to be a massive Valentino Rossi fan which leaves me ill disposed toward them. Splashed ASU-1 near Kherson yesterday...


  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Leon said:

    Oof. About to go to Heathrow for an agreeable and extended trip abroad


    But a couple of faint symptoms of covid. And I have been socialising a fair bit recently


    MORAL DILEMMA

    Ignore the symptoms (they are minor) get on the plane and see more of the world?

    Or take a test, risk a positive: be forced to stay home and also inconvenience quite a few people?

    Would you rather the person who gave you the gross disease has stayed at home?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    When Labour left power in 2010 98% of people attending A&E were seen in 4 hours that has plummeted to 71%

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    Leon said:

    Oof. About to go to Heathrow for an agreeable and extended trip abroad


    But a couple of faint symptoms of covid. And I have been socialising a fair bit recently


    MORAL DILEMMA

    Ignore the symptoms (they are minor) get on the plane and see more of the world?

    Or take a test, risk a positive: be forced to stay home and also inconvenience quite a few people?

    Reviewing a hotel's response to a sick guest is the sort of information you don't normally get from travel journalism, but can be really valuable for tourists to know in advance.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Oof. About to go to Heathrow for an agreeable and extended trip abroad


    But a couple of faint symptoms of covid. And I have been socialising a fair bit recently


    MORAL DILEMMA

    Ignore the symptoms (they are minor) get on the plane and see more of the world?

    Or take a test, risk a positive: be forced to stay home and also inconvenience quite a few people?

    Test. Will almost certainly be negative (10 x more colds out there than covid), and even if covid, likelihood of negative test in early stages too. Then you can proudly wave a photo on your phone of your negative test.
  • Leon said:

    Apparently Macron had to say this because French public opinion is freaking out about nuclear war

    But he could surely have found a better way of phrasing it than this. Calamitously awkward

    The quote seems selective because it doesn't mention nuclear. If he's talking about nuclear, of course France wouldn't nuke Russia for using a nuke in Ukraine - not would we, nor would America.
    We absolutely should, 100%. We made guarantees to Ukraine when they disarmed their own nukes, and we should honour our word by holding them under our nuclear shield if it gets that far.

    And Putin should be in no doubt about that, so if he chooses to nuke Ukraine he knows we will take it as seriously as him choosing to nuke London.
    I know you've expressed this view before, and it's absolutely, balls out, shit for brains, Kenny Everett mad. Mad is a cheapened word these days, it doesn't express adequately how stupid that would be.
    Nah, just because you and a few other loons love Putin and can't bear to see Putin lose, doesn't mean we should go back on our word or allow nuclear escalation to go unpunished.

    As long as the war remains conventional then we should only fight via proxy, as we are doing, and has been done for seventy years through the Cold War.

    If it escalates to nuclear though, that is what Trident is there for.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (11-12 Oct)

    Con: 23% (+1 from 6-7 Oct)
    Lab: 51% (-1)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (-2)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/13/voting-intention-con-23-lab-51-11-12-oct-2022 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1580496386755555328/photo/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Which of the following do you think would make the best prime minister? (11-12 Oct)

    Keir Starmer: 42% (-1 from 6-7 Oct)
    Liz Truss: 13% (-1)
    Not sure: 41% (+2)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/13/voting-intention-con-23-lab-51-11-12-oct-2022 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1580496391985459201/photo/1
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
    Perverse logic.

    If Scotland had Yes in 2014 would that have rather proven the point that they were sovereign pre-2014?
    The UK is a sovereign nation, Scotland is not. Brexit was a sovereign nation deciding to leave the EU. Sindy would be the creation of a sovereign nation where none exists now. These are the essential facts of the matter. There are similarities between Brexit and Sindy but they are routinely overstated. The fundamentals are different.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Sharp pull back in UK surveyors' house price expectations. Tends to be a decent leading indicator of where prices are heading. Pointing to YoY prices turning negative by end Q1 23. Fieldwork undertaken before some of the most recent mortgage market dislocation so may understate https://twitter.com/shjfrench/status/1580455095107407873/photo/1
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Scott_xP said:

    Buy candles

    “It’s very unlikely that we’ll see the conditions that would lead to blackouts” - climate minister @grahamstuart tells the Energy UK conference.

    #eukconf22 https://twitter.com/jameskirkup/status/1580494672803205122/photo/1

    Have just had a discussion about our Uni's winter graduations (Dec 2022). Apparantly we are using generators just in case of power cuts, as if they were announced short notice, there would not be time or capacity to get them in.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Liz Truss has come under fire from her own MPs as they demanded more U-turns on her tax-slashing agenda.

    Isabel Oakeshott: "We might genuinely be looking at the ousting of this Prime Minister within the next few weeks or months."

    @iromg | @isabeloakeshott https://twitter.com/TalkTV/status/1580488303597477894/video/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Net approval of government performance at managing the cost of living (fieldwork 6-28 Sep)

    🇬🇧 -72
    🇮🇹 -69
    🇩🇪 -62
    🇪🇸 -53
    🇫🇷 -50
    🇸🇪 -38
    🇩🇰 -35

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/economy/articles-reports/2022/10/13/new-cost-living-tracker-reveals-extent-crisis-west https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1580498005123162117/photo/1
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Can I just make my mandatory comment that Liz Truss is not 'from Norfolk'. She has a background in Leeds and Paisley, then Oxford and now London. She was parachuted into a safe Norfolk seat and has an almost always unoccupied house that she owns a few doors down from me.

    Put her fucking windows through.

    “You cannot buy the revolution. You cannot make the revolution. You can only be the revolution. It is in your spirit, or it is nowhere.”

    Ursula LeGuin or maybe Stacey's mental mum out of Eastenders.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    darkage said:

    Nigelb said:

    If The Queen Consort wears it then it is an insult to over a billion people and the fact the the Royal Family don't give a shit about their bloody colonial past.

    Plans for Queen Camilla to be honoured with a crown containing the Koh-i-Noor diamond at the coronation next year could be dropped because of “political sensitivities”, it was claimed yesterday...

    And in that context, it looks as though the India trade deal is now off.

    Though that's more to do with Braverman complaining about Indian visitors who overstay their visas.

    Is 'the deal' actually off?
    I wonder what exactly Braverman expects the Indian government to do about visa overstayers? It is a problem for the enforcement team in the Home Office. This seems to be in line with the Brexiteer tradition of blaming other people/countries for our own failures. The Conservatives have run out of ideas, and people are now tired of hearing from them.

    To be fair to Braverman she didn’t say any of that.

    What she said is that she is concerned about liberalising visas for Indians because of lot of the current visa holders overstay. That’s an empirical observation (and a bit of politicking) but it’s not blaming the Indian government or telling them to fix it.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
    We have had this debate many times before and the only result is that it proves you Eurofanatics don't understand basic English and think it is possible to change the meaning of words haphazardly to suit your political view. It is the height of idiocy.
    Richard I have no idea what you mean. Please see my reply to Barty if that helps.

    Although I was a remainer I am not a rejoiner so I'm no fanatic. I fail to understand how people think we did not have choices when we clearly did.

    You are also not usually rude to me Richard. Not sure why you are at the moment?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,157
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    Dear oh dear. Will this simple simon tripe never cease?
    Aha. Baited. Hooked.
    Oh well if you know it's tripe and are just seeking a response, that's slightly different and a lesser offence. Been known to do similar. Could even be classed a service. You need a bit a tripe to grist the mill of PB ... so ok as you were with your "left the EU to become a free sovereign nation" tripe.
    No it’s both. I believe this to be completely true. We were not free and sovereign in the EU, now we are (or at least, to a significantly greater extent). Thanks to Brexit.

    But I only shoved the reference in there to get a peevish reaction from people like you, thus wasting 17 seconds of your stupid dwindling life. I see that as a victory, in the greater scheme.
    I'm not responding obviously. Not even with something short and dismissive.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,332
    Ok I’m going to be a good boy and test
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Buy candles

    “It’s very unlikely that we’ll see the conditions that would lead to blackouts” - climate minister @grahamstuart tells the Energy UK conference.

    #eukconf22 https://twitter.com/jameskirkup/status/1580494672803205122/photo/1

    Have just had a discussion about our Uni's winter graduations (Dec 2022). Apparantly we are using generators just in case of power cuts, as if they were announced short notice, there would not be time or capacity to get them in.
    Anyone who’s not order their winter generator by now, won’t be getting one. They’ll be in supermarket car parks by December.

    Electricians are going to make a killing between now and Easter, plugging and unplugging generators, and installing backup power systems.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Scott_xP said:

    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (11-12 Oct)

    Con: 23% (+1 from 6-7 Oct)
    Lab: 51% (-1)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (-2)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/13/voting-intention-con-23-lab-51-11-12-oct-2022 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1580496386755555328/photo/1

    Bounceback!!!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    BoZo's biggest fan in the lobby...

    Tolerance levels low for the same MPs who knifed Johnson without a plan now skulking in the same alcoves of parliament complaining to journalists that something must be done. "What's the plan then?" Errr..
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1580490439257251840
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Leon said:

    I think talk like this is very dangerous. It's tantamount to giving Putin permission to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

    The Kyiv Independent
    @KyivIndependent
    ·
    18m
    ⚡️ Macron: France won’t strike Russia if it nukes Ukraine.

    "Our doctrine is based on the fundamental interests of (our) nation, and they are clearly defined. If there were a nuclear ballistic attack in Ukraine, these interests would not be called into question," said Macron.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1580481219564687360

    WTF is the context and reason for this? A crazy thing to say out loud. Imagine if you’re Ukrainian - reading that
    Here's the clip with the context (although it would be good to see a bit more at the end of the exchange)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVoc8G-YmiQ
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    'Liz Truss is presiding over a full-spectrum, system-wide, multifaceted political breakdown. In every aspect and at every level, the Government is falling apart.'

    @IanDunt

    https://inews.co.uk/opinion/liz-truss-worst-nightmares-never-dreamed-this-bad-1907392
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Leon said:

    Apparently Macron had to say this because French public opinion is freaking out about nuclear war

    But he could surely have found a better way of phrasing it than this. Calamitously awkward

    The quote seems selective because it doesn't mention nuclear. If he's talking about nuclear, of course France wouldn't nuke Russia for using a nuke in Ukraine - not would we, nor would America.
    We absolutely should, 100%. We made guarantees to Ukraine when they disarmed their own nukes, and we should honour our word by holding them under our nuclear shield if it gets that far.

    And Putin should be in no doubt about that, so if he chooses to nuke Ukraine he knows we will take it as seriously as him choosing to nuke London.
    I know you've expressed this view before, and it's absolutely, balls out, shit for brains, Kenny Everett mad. Mad is a cheapened word these days, it doesn't express adequately how stupid that would be.
    Nah, just because you and a few other loons love Putin and can't bear to see Putin lose, doesn't mean we should go back on our word or allow nuclear escalation to go unpunished.

    As long as the war remains conventional then we should only fight via proxy, as we are doing, and has been done for seventy years through the Cold War.

    If it escalates to nuclear though, that is what Trident is there for.
    Trident is absolutely and demonstrably *not* for attacking another country that has attacked an ally. And I don't think you'll get many thanks from Ukrainians for turning a disaster (a tactical nuke attack) into a piss-fight using strategic nukes, given that they would all die. You utter chump.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    Pagan2 said:

    Here is an off the wall suggestion

    A governement introduces a concept of a minimum mortgage interest rate which ratchets up and down with the base rate, say for example making mortgages cost 2% more per year than currently.

    The 2% extra interest goes to the treasury
    The minimum mortgage percentage also acts as a dampener on rising house prices
    Could even have a different minimum rate for BTL mortgages thats a little higher

    In some ways this would be similar to Insurance Premium Tax. Effectively a tax on outstanding mortgage debt.

    I've no idea if it's a good idea economically, but I admire the inventiveness.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Scott_xP said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best prime minister? (11-12 Oct)

    Keir Starmer: 42% (-1 from 6-7 Oct)
    Liz Truss: 13% (-1)
    Not sure: 41% (+2)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/13/voting-intention-con-23-lab-51-11-12-oct-2022 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1580496391985459201/photo/1

    Even now, Sir Keir is barely struggling to beat "not sure" (which, of course, means "neither"). Time for him to start telling us what he would do.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    By convention, MPs are usually not allowed to refer to the Monarch in the Commons.
    But @ThangamMP just got round the rules by pointedly saying 'Dear, oh dear' during a wider attack on the Govt's past week.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1580303100404826113
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Hearing multiple MPs have submitted letters of no-confidence in Liz Truss.
    One MP tells me: "She's just embarrassingly bad, and even looks like she knows she's shit".

    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1580496835105665025
  • kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
    We have had this debate many times before and the only result is that it proves you Eurofanatics don't understand basic English and think it is possible to change the meaning of words haphazardly to suit your political view. It is the height of idiocy.
    Well Richard, I am definitely not a "Eurofanatic" as you put it, even though I believe Brexit itself was the height of idiocy. You so desperately bang on about sovereignty because you, in spite of being a more intelligent Brexiteer (there are a few) were gulled by the non-argument. We were sovereign before Brexit, we are sovereign afterward. The remaining 27 nations are sovereign nations and are recognised as such by the UN. To pretend otherwise is not quite the height of idiocy, because that monumental ground is occupied by those who still believe Brexit was worthwhile.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913
    Driver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best prime minister? (11-12 Oct)

    Keir Starmer: 42% (-1 from 6-7 Oct)
    Liz Truss: 13% (-1)
    Not sure: 41% (+2)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/13/voting-intention-con-23-lab-51-11-12-oct-2022 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1580496391985459201/photo/1

    Even now, Sir Keir is barely struggling to beat "not sure" (which, of course, means "neither"). Time for him to start telling us what he would do.
    While that may be true, the statistic that leaps out is
    Liz Truss 13% (-1)
  • kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
    Perverse logic.

    If Scotland had Yes in 2014 would that have rather proven the point that they were sovereign pre-2014?
    The UK is a sovereign nation, Scotland is not. Brexit was a sovereign nation deciding to leave the EU. Sindy would be the creation of a sovereign nation where none exists now. These are the essential facts of the matter. There are similarities between Brexit and Sindy but they are routinely overstated. The fundamentals are different.
    The UK was a semi-sovereign nation where some of our sovereignty had been transferred to the EU whose laws and courts took precedence over our own.

    Brexit was us choosing to take back our sovereignty and become a fully sovereign nation once more. The fact that we had the right to choose to become fully sovereign by leaving didn't mean that we were before we left.

    There are countries around the world whose constitutions explicitly grant the right to secede to part of their country, if they choose to do so. EG the constitution of the nation of Saint Kitts and Nevis grants the smaller island of Nevis the right to secede if it votes to do so.

    Even the tiny state of Liechtenstein could become even tinier, all of its municipalities have a right enshrined in the constitution to become independent if they vote to do so.

    France's constitution too says it is indivisible, except that it also goes on to say that New Caledonia can become independent if it chooses to do so.

    So are the island of Nevis, the archipelago of New Caledonia, or all 11 municipalities of Liechtenstein all "sovereign" nations too?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Pagan2 said:

    Here is an off the wall suggestion

    A governement introduces a concept of a minimum mortgage interest rate which ratchets up and down with the base rate, say for example making mortgages cost 2% more per year than currently.

    The 2% extra interest goes to the treasury
    The minimum mortgage percentage also acts as a dampener on rising house prices
    Could even have a different minimum rate for BTL mortgages thats a little higher

    In some ways this would be similar to Insurance Premium Tax. Effectively a tax on outstanding mortgage debt.

    I've no idea if it's a good idea economically, but I admire the inventiveness.
    The main reason I suggest it apart from providing revenue is it gives governement of whatever colour a lever to pull to manage the rise in housing costs to a certain extent separate to the BoE base rate
  • Pagan2 said:

    Here is an off the wall suggestion

    A governement introduces a concept of a minimum mortgage interest rate which ratchets up and down with the base rate, say for example making mortgages cost 2% more per year than currently.

    The 2% extra interest goes to the treasury
    The minimum mortgage percentage also acts as a dampener on rising house prices
    Could even have a different minimum rate for BTL mortgages thats a little higher

    Could be in favour for BTL and non primary residences only.

    Not much point in lower house prices for owner occupier workers if they then have to pay a surcharge to the government that makes it just as bad or worse than the high house prices were.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (11-12 Oct)

    Con: 23% (+1 from 6-7 Oct)
    Lab: 51% (-1)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (-2)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/13/voting-intention-con-23-lab-51-11-12-oct-2022 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1580496386755555328/photo/1

    Bounceback!!!
    SKS fans, please explain? :wink:
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    Oof. About to go to Heathrow for an agreeable and extended trip abroad


    But a couple of faint symptoms of covid. And I have been socialising a fair bit recently


    MORAL DILEMMA

    Ignore the symptoms (they are minor) get on the plane and see more of the world?

    Or take a test, risk a positive: be forced to stay home and also inconvenience quite a few people?

    I would not test- covid is here to stay ,isolation merely delays people getting it -everyone is vaccinated who wants to be
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Selebian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (11-12 Oct)

    Con: 23% (+1 from 6-7 Oct)
    Lab: 51% (-1)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (+1)
    Reform UK: 3% (-2)
    SNP: 5% (=)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/13/voting-intention-con-23-lab-51-11-12-oct-2022 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1580496386755555328/photo/1

    Bounceback!!!
    SKS fans, please explain? :wink:
    Sleazy, broken Labour on the slide.
  • kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
    We have had this debate many times before and the only result is that it proves you Eurofanatics don't understand basic English and think it is possible to change the meaning of words haphazardly to suit your political view. It is the height of idiocy.
    Richard I have no idea what you mean. Please see my reply to Barty if that helps.

    Although I was a remainer I am not a rejoiner so I'm no fanatic. I fail to understand how people think we did not have choices when we clearly did.

    You are also not usually rude to me Richard. Not sure why you are at the moment?
    This topic tends to do that. Best avoided, as Leon knows, hence the fishbait to suck people in.
  • Leon said:

    Apparently Macron had to say this because French public opinion is freaking out about nuclear war

    But he could surely have found a better way of phrasing it than this. Calamitously awkward

    The quote seems selective because it doesn't mention nuclear. If he's talking about nuclear, of course France wouldn't nuke Russia for using a nuke in Ukraine - not would we, nor would America.
    We absolutely should, 100%. We made guarantees to Ukraine when they disarmed their own nukes, and we should honour our word by holding them under our nuclear shield if it gets that far.

    And Putin should be in no doubt about that, so if he chooses to nuke Ukraine he knows we will take it as seriously as him choosing to nuke London.
    I know you've expressed this view before, and it's absolutely, balls out, shit for brains, Kenny Everett mad. Mad is a cheapened word these days, it doesn't express adequately how stupid that would be.
    Nah, just because you and a few other loons love Putin and can't bear to see Putin lose, doesn't mean we should go back on our word or allow nuclear escalation to go unpunished.

    As long as the war remains conventional then we should only fight via proxy, as we are doing, and has been done for seventy years through the Cold War.

    If it escalates to nuclear though, that is what Trident is there for.
    Trident is absolutely and demonstrably *not* for attacking another country that has attacked an ally. And I don't think you'll get many thanks from Ukrainians for turning a disaster (a tactical nuke attack) into a piss-fight using strategic nukes, given that they would all die. You utter chump.
    You're the chump who can't understand the meaning of the word "deterrence".

    As long as the war doesn't escalate to WMDs then we will not get directly involved, that is our red line, as it should. If it does, then we absolutely should and must.
  • Liz Truss and Kwasi Karteng have had a crash course over the last few weeks on the limits of our 'sovereignty'.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Leon said:

    Apparently Macron had to say this because French public opinion is freaking out about nuclear war

    But he could surely have found a better way of phrasing it than this. Calamitously awkward

    The quote seems selective because it doesn't mention nuclear. If he's talking about nuclear, of course France wouldn't nuke Russia for using a nuke in Ukraine - not would we, nor would America.
    We absolutely should, 100%. We made guarantees to Ukraine when they disarmed their own nukes, and we should honour our word by holding them under our nuclear shield if it gets that far.

    And Putin should be in no doubt about that, so if he chooses to nuke Ukraine he knows we will take it as seriously as him choosing to nuke London.
    I know you've expressed this view before, and it's absolutely, balls out, shit for brains, Kenny Everett mad. Mad is a cheapened word these days, it doesn't express adequately how stupid that would be.
    Nah, just because you and a few other loons love Putin and can't bear to see Putin lose, doesn't mean we should go back on our word or allow nuclear escalation to go unpunished.

    As long as the war remains conventional then we should only fight via proxy, as we are doing, and has been done for seventy years through the Cold War.

    If it escalates to nuclear though, that is what Trident is there for.
    Trident is absolutely and demonstrably *not* for attacking another country that has attacked an ally. And I don't think you'll get many thanks from Ukrainians for turning a disaster (a tactical nuke attack) into a piss-fight using strategic nukes, given that they would all die. You utter chump.
    Don’t worry, a small tactical nuke won’t be met by an overwhelming nuclear response.

    It’ll be met by an overwhelming conventional response. Overwhelming, as in every NATO country throwing everything it has available against the Russian military. There won’t be a Black Sea fleet, and there won’t be dozens of bases from which further attacks might be launched.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited October 2022

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    I agree but we have to remember that Charles is quite old (and not doing nearly as well as his mother or father did in respect of ageing), seriously stupid and quite new at the job. It is completely unrealistic that he is going to perform to the impeccable standards of his mother but he will hopefully improve.
    'seriously stupid'

    Lol!
    Were Victoria and Elisabeth the only two properly smart British monarchs of the last 200 years? Even longer maybe..
    Go back to 1625 and add Cromwell and you might have a point. I also wonder how far Vicky relied on darling Albert, who was a seriously serious cookie by comparison with a lot of the formal kings.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited October 2022

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
    Perverse logic.

    If Scotland had Yes in 2014 would that have rather proven the point that they were sovereign pre-2014?
    No, because they only got the vote with the agreement of the UK government. Scotland had no legal route to unilaterally leaving the UK, without UK consent, so was not sovereign (and the same still applies). The UK was able to unilaterally leave the EU with no one else's permission, so it was sovereign.

    ETA: But it's somewhat semantics anyway. We pooled sovereignty in the EU and it's fair enough to object to that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Liz Truss and Kwasi Karteng have had a crash course over the last few weeks on the limits of our 'sovereignty'.

    https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1580151328344805376
  • Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Apparently Macron had to say this because French public opinion is freaking out about nuclear war

    But he could surely have found a better way of phrasing it than this. Calamitously awkward

    The quote seems selective because it doesn't mention nuclear. If he's talking about nuclear, of course France wouldn't nuke Russia for using a nuke in Ukraine - not would we, nor would America.
    We absolutely should, 100%. We made guarantees to Ukraine when they disarmed their own nukes, and we should honour our word by holding them under our nuclear shield if it gets that far.

    And Putin should be in no doubt about that, so if he chooses to nuke Ukraine he knows we will take it as seriously as him choosing to nuke London.
    I know you've expressed this view before, and it's absolutely, balls out, shit for brains, Kenny Everett mad. Mad is a cheapened word these days, it doesn't express adequately how stupid that would be.
    Nah, just because you and a few other loons love Putin and can't bear to see Putin lose, doesn't mean we should go back on our word or allow nuclear escalation to go unpunished.

    As long as the war remains conventional then we should only fight via proxy, as we are doing, and has been done for seventy years through the Cold War.

    If it escalates to nuclear though, that is what Trident is there for.
    Trident is absolutely and demonstrably *not* for attacking another country that has attacked an ally. And I don't think you'll get many thanks from Ukrainians for turning a disaster (a tactical nuke attack) into a piss-fight using strategic nukes, given that they would all die. You utter chump.

    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Have just noticed. The video of Truss meeting the King. Lots of comments about her appalling courtesy thing. And his "you're back again? Dear oh dear". But listen between "again" and "dear". He grimaces and sucks his teeth loudly. Its comedy gold!

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1580264025648431105

    I am no fan of Truss but, quite frankly, I find it rude of the entitled, privileged, white male Monarch to react in that way.

    There is no need for it.

    People approving of such ignorant behaviour because its towards someone they politically do not like would not be so accomodating if it was someone like Starmer or Davey.
    Utter rubbish, Truss is the most hapless and unpopular PM in 100 years. It was a mild remark reflecting on the complete calamity of the current government before the King swiftly moved the conversation on.

    I have no problem with it at all and given she was open in her republicanism in the past who could blame Charles in enjoying secretly the calamity of her first month in office!
    I’m a monarchist but I don’t like this. Ask yourself: why did this stuff never happen to the Queen?

    Because she had impeccable manners and knew how to behave as a monarch

    Even if there was no malign intent in KC3’s mutterings (and how can anyone be sure?) they can certainly be interpreted as dissing the elected Prime Minister. And that is really bad - for the Monarchy

    A few years of it could turn me into a republican. It’s the one single thing they must not do. KC3 needs to kick out the cameras if he can’t control his words

    'elected'?
    She’s an MP. That’s our electoral system. If we don’t like it we can change it. Now we have Brexited we are a free and sovereign democracy once again
    As we were before we Brexited.
    Sovereign, in the sense of either accept everything or leave, yes.

    The People made their decision.
    Yep they did, which rather proves the point. We were/are sovereign.
    Perverse logic.

    If Scotland had Yes in 2014 would that have rather proven the point that they were sovereign pre-2014?
    No, because they only got the vote with the agreement of the UK government. Scotland had no legal route to unilaterally leaving the UK, without UK consent, so was not sovereign (and the same still applies). The UK was able to unilaterally leave the EU with no one else's permission, so it was sovereign.
    Nevis has a unilateral right to leave St Kitts and Nevis, does that mean that Nevis is sovereign?

    Is New Caledonia? It has the unilateral right to leave France.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Liz Truss and Kwasi Karteng have had a crash course over the last few weeks on the limits of our 'sovereignty'.

    Yes. The battle to win it back is far from over.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Apparently Macron had to say this because French public opinion is freaking out about nuclear war

    But he could surely have found a better way of phrasing it than this. Calamitously awkward

    The quote seems selective because it doesn't mention nuclear. If he's talking about nuclear, of course France wouldn't nuke Russia for using a nuke in Ukraine - not would we, nor would America.
    We absolutely should, 100%. We made guarantees to Ukraine when they disarmed their own nukes, and we should honour our word by holding them under our nuclear shield if it gets that far.

    And Putin should be in no doubt about that, so if he chooses to nuke Ukraine he knows we will take it as seriously as him choosing to nuke London.
    I know you've expressed this view before, and it's absolutely, balls out, shit for brains, Kenny Everett mad. Mad is a cheapened word these days, it doesn't express adequately how stupid that would be.
    Nah, just because you and a few other loons love Putin and can't bear to see Putin lose, doesn't mean we should go back on our word or allow nuclear escalation to go unpunished.

    As long as the war remains conventional then we should only fight via proxy, as we are doing, and has been done for seventy years through the Cold War.

    If it escalates to nuclear though, that is what Trident is there for.
    Trident is absolutely and demonstrably *not* for attacking another country that has attacked an ally. And I don't think you'll get many thanks from Ukrainians for turning a disaster (a tactical nuke attack) into a piss-fight using strategic nukes, given that they would all die. You utter chump.
    Don’t worry, a small tactical nuke won’t be met by an overwhelming nuclear response.

    It’ll be met by an overwhelming conventional response. Overwhelming, as in every NATO country throwing everything it has available against the Russian military. There won’t be a Black Sea fleet, and there won’t be dozens of bases from which further attacks might be launched.
    Yes, my expectation would be a conventional escalation.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Pagan2 said:

    Here is an off the wall suggestion

    A governement introduces a concept of a minimum mortgage interest rate which ratchets up and down with the base rate, say for example making mortgages cost 2% more per year than currently.

    The 2% extra interest goes to the treasury
    The minimum mortgage percentage also acts as a dampener on rising house prices
    Could even have a different minimum rate for BTL mortgages thats a little higher

    Could be in favour for BTL and non primary residences only.

    Not much point in lower house prices for owner occupier workers if they then have to pay a surcharge to the government that makes it just as bad or worse than the high house prices were.
    If it reduces house price inflation from the current 10% or more a year to say a mere 5% then in the round it would be beneficial for house buyers
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    Scott_xP said:

    Which of the following do you think would make the best prime minister? (11-12 Oct)

    Keir Starmer: 42% (-1 from 6-7 Oct)
    Liz Truss: 13% (-1)
    Not sure: 41% (+2)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/10/13/voting-intention-con-23-lab-51-11-12-oct-2022 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1580496391985459201/photo/1

    Not Sure on the rise; I think they would make an excellent PM.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Joe Biden is too timid. It is time to legalise cocaine
    The costs of prohibition outweigh the benefits"

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/10/12/joe-biden-is-too-timid-it-is-time-to-legalise-cocaine
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,332
    The reason Remoaners STILL get worked up by the idea “Britain was not sovereign in the EU” is because they know it is true, not the opposite

    It therefore irks them because it is an inarguable reason for Brexit. They will never be able to turn around and say “Brexit was a mistake” because Brexit is already, in these terms, a success. We are sovereign again. We control our own borders. The fact the borders are pathetically uncontrolled is down to OUR stupid useless government which we can elect or dismiss

    Every time I see Ursula von der Wotsit on the telly I give thanks for Brexit. Quite sincerely

    Tho she must have been extremely hot in her 20s
  • RunDeepRunDeep Posts: 77

    In their last couple of leadership elections, both main parties have managed to elect an extremist who did/does not enjoy anything like enough support from their parliamentary party and who would never command enough support nationally to win a general election.

    The only difference between the two parties' situations is that (fortuitously for them) Labour happened to do it while they were in opposition, so it was much more damaging to them than it was to the country. Doing it while in Government inflicts significant damage to the country too, as we're seeing.

    In the next GE I'll vote for any party which proposes to legislate to ban any political party with more than, say, 40 MPs from leaving their final choice of leader in the hands of their membership!

    (though I know that's pure fantasy, of course)

    If you think Corbyn and Truss are bad, you ought to have a look at the long list of duds elected by Scottish Labour members:

    2007 Wendy Alexander
    2008 Iain Gray
    2011 Johan Lamont
    2014 Jim Murphy
    2015 Kezia Dugdale
    2017 Richard Leonard
    2021 Anas Sarwar

    The talent pool is admittedly tiny, but they still managed to pick total crackers there.

    Luckily, as you say, when parties do it in Opposition, they solely damage themselves and not the country.
    They do damage the country by not being an effective opposition, which we need. That is why the country ended up with Boris. Because there was no viable opposition.

    The Tories risk being wiped out at the next GE. They deserve it. But I do not want to see a humongous Labour majority because governing parties with large majorities become complacent, lazy and hubristic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,965

    Leon said:

    Apparently Macron had to say this because French public opinion is freaking out about nuclear war

    But he could surely have found a better way of phrasing it than this. Calamitously awkward

    The quote seems selective because it doesn't mention nuclear. If he's talking about nuclear, of course France wouldn't nuke Russia for using a nuke in Ukraine - not would we, nor would America.
    We absolutely should, 100%. We made guarantees to Ukraine when they disarmed their own nukes, and we should honour our word by holding them under our nuclear shield if it gets that far.

    And Putin should be in no doubt about that, so if he chooses to nuke Ukraine he knows we will take it as seriously as him choosing to nuke London.
    Ukraine is not even in NATO. So if Putin uses a tactical nuke in Ukraine, you would nuke Moscow, then Putin nukes London. Just to be clear?

    Trident is a last resort for our defence or at most NATO's defence that is it. Otherwise blockade and isolate Putin further but don't launch Trident
This discussion has been closed.