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These YouGov findings are terrible for Truss – politicalbetting.com

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,745
    Carnyx said:

    darkage said:

    Carnyx said:

    darkage said:

    Eabhal said:

    Why are HP printers so irredeemably shit?

    An hour into trying to get a contract to sign and it's still firing out test pages

    Yeah I've had this problem with HP laser printers. I thought I would make my life easier by buying an expensive laser printer rather than the cartridge printers that are slow and take forever. Ha ha.
    I found that the HP laser printer was an absolute heap of junk and a waste of £150. The tray broke and Currys wouldn't fix it. Got it working again but every time you try and get it to print, you seem to be messing around for 20 minutes before it prints anything. And you can't seem to do anything without getting tied in to their weird online network thing. How hard can it be to just send something to the printer and get it printed? It is astonishing how this has got harder over time, rather than easier.

    Now its run out of ink i'm throwing it way and replacing it with a cheap £30 inkjet printer that you plug in when you need to print something.
    False economy. Get one of the refillable Epson ones. They charge the actual price for the printer so they don't have to make it back with ink cartridges and various user-hostile tricks to make sure you keep buying the ink cartridges.
    Got one. Very pleased. 8550 in fact - prints A3, which is great for proofreading.

    Only concern is the high front end price but I got a two year guarantee for free.
    Thanks both, very helpful. Yes, I suspected that HP are essentially recruiting you in to their 'ink subscription' service which requires you to be online so they can continuously harvest your data - seems to be behind many of the complications involved in trying to getting the printer to do its job.

    The £700 price tag of the EPSON alternative is a bit off putting though, for a personal (rather than business) purchase for occasional use.
    I'd been waiting till Which consistently recommended an inktank printer with decent printing gubbins and this family was the first - ET-8500 is A4 printing only; 8550 is A3 and A4 etc printing (but A4 scanning/copying only).

    There is a minor issue of ink bleed through from photos but this is probably just a combination of the paper I use and my laziness in not adjusting the setting. Doesn't affect me.

    I am a moderate user (researcher at home) printing 10s or even 100s in a day, and I have only had to refill it once, 10 momths on, after the initial filling, and even then there is plenty ink left in the bottles. One also needs to buy a replacement overflow/dribble sponge eventually but mine is not even a quarter of the way full.

    Edit: still have my HP printer with a few cartridges to use up. Useful as a backup printer/scanner, though it's great not to have to buy cartridges like smarties - third party ones were hopeless, they didn't work or do so reliably when they did work.
    I have an ET3750 and I find it pretty good for a printer (considering they were invented to try the patience of Job, this being why they use that word, obvs). The larger bottles of ink are a lot cheaper than the cartridges.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    DYOR but I believe 5 hour eco cycles on washing machines are cheaper than the 1 hour quick and dirty.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,863
    Scott_xP said:

    Like I say, it doesn’t matter. The narrative is Liz Truss is a disaster, so everything she does will be seen through that prism. But she’s done OK at PMQs today. Solid performance.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1580158895297040384

    That's rubbish, she was awful, dodging questions, ridiculous repetition of the energy price cap, dreary speaking, and frankly she sounds thick. I mean really like she's not quite all there.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has the Free Speech Union been on this?

    Celtic have been fined over “provocative” anti-monarchy banners displayed by their fans at a Champions League match last month, less than a week after the Queen’s death.

    One banner spotted in the Celtic section of the ground during their 1-1 draw with Ukrainian side Shakhtar Donetsk in Poland on September 14 stated “F*** the crown”.

    Another read “Sorry For Your Loss Michael Fagan” — a reference to a man who broke into the Queen’s bedroom in 1982.

    The Scottish champions have been fined €15,000 (£13,000) by Uefa’s control, ethics and disciplinary body over what was described as “a message not fit for a sporting event (ie a provocative banner)”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-fined-for-anti-monarchy-banners-p25fb2jjj

    Quite right too, that could also count as hate speech in the aftermath of the Queen's death.

    They should have done what Rangers did

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgID9PFU44
    Hate speech? Defined how? Is republicanism a banned belief?
    Arguably yes, if it is treason and disloyalty to the Crown
    Treason? Really? I am a republican. Thought was a legal opinion to hold and express. Do you disagree?
    Take it as a complement.

    HYUFD said that Sunak was a "traitor" then voted for him.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Liz Truss says she is "absolutely" sticking to her pledge not to cut public spending.

    Bookmark this one.


    https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1580154348645990400

    Almost impossible to cut public spending in an inflationary environment!
    Perhaps you're onto something there - she may feel that a freeze in public spending, equal to an 11% cut in real terms, might be sold as "no cuts".
    But that still leaves the black hole of her tax cuts.

    If the new government had made no changes to Sunak's planned measures, we'd be in a position where the public finances would be looking OKish (though not great), but where public services, already under huge strain, would be facing even bigger problems from inflation. It's completely obvious that there's no room to save any significant money on those services, given the demographic and Covid-recovery pressures, not to mention the need for increased defence spending. Big tax cuts on top of all that was clearly bonkers, even though one can argue that the individual tax cuts are (in isolation) fairly sensible ones; they might have been sensible if introduced gradually and balanced by tax increases elsewhere.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,745
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Jordan is not having a good day and it looks likely to cost England the game.

    Magnificent timing.
    Thank you. But I hope Jordan doesn't bowl any more today.
    Told you. 😒
  • Phil said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    Even if you can afford to pay for it, I think reducing energy usage right now is preceived as the moral & patriotic thing to do. Every therm you don’t use is a therm that can be used in other parts of the EU that are more dependent on gas than we are, ensuring they make it through the winter.
    Christmas lights are going to divide the nation! Fury from both sides, pitchforks at dusk in small rural villages, town councils baffled as to what to do.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,745
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Jordan is not having a good day and it looks likely to cost England the game.

    Magnificent timing.
    Thank you. But I hope Jordan doesn't bowl any more today.
    Told you. 😒
    SOmetimes I impress even myself.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,587
    IshmaelZ said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    DYOR but I believe 5 hour eco cycles on washing machines are cheaper than the 1 hour quick and dirty.
    I've been using a 15 minute cycle. I'm struggling to see how a 5 hour cycle would cost less but I will check!
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,662
    RobD said:

    IshmaelZ said:
    Pedant mode: 5 hours, not a day.
    What's interesting about that story is that they say the Max output during the 5 hours was 3.1GW - by comparison, the UK is currently producing 3.27GW from Solar alone (ignoring the 10GW from Wind currently). Now clearly that's apples to oranges etc, but still highlights how much renewable electricity the UK already has in place (even if we need a great deal more as well)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,853

    On Liz Truss, @patrickkmaguire quips that she’s now “the supply teacher who’s lost the room.” That, I think, is rather👌.

    And any supply teacher I remember being in this position ended up with drawing pins on their chair and paper aeroplanes flying over their head…


    https://twitter.com/tommctague/status/1580158971964379136

    I don't like that comparison, as it might make me feel sorry for her.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,523
    The last thing we need is a general election...

    Using the Royal We there??
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Jordan is not having a good day and it looks likely to cost England the game.

    Magnificent timing.
    Thank you. But I hope Jordan doesn't bowl any more today.
    Told you. 😒
    I'm an idiot, I had Sky Sports Cricket on in the background which is showing a T20 versus SA and we look to be winning it. Only realised from your comment that it must have been the wrong match. 🤦‍♂️
  • Truss: "I think the last thing we need is a General Election".

    You betcha!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,101
    It does appear that Liz still thinks she can bend reality to her will

    No spending cuts

    No tax rises

    No budget shortfall

    No market mayhem

    Come on Tory MPs, “Screw your courage to the sticking-place, And we’ll not fail.”
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,445

    Jonathan said:

    The Tory front bench. I have seen happier faces at funerals in January.

    Curious as to why January? What are the best months for funerals?
    January is a depressing month, and funerals are depressing. At least the departed made it to christmas though.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,105
    AlistairM said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    DYOR but I believe 5 hour eco cycles on washing machines are cheaper than the 1 hour quick and dirty.
    I've been using a 15 minute cycle. I'm struggling to see how a 5 hour cycle would cost less but I will check!
    Less heating I guess. In 15 minutes the washing machine has to rapidly heat up the water to a high temperature to achieve the same results.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 1,202
    edited October 2022
    pm215 said:

    darkage said:


    Yeah I've had this problem with HP laser printers. I thought I would make my life easier by buying an expensive laser printer rather than the cartridge printers that are slow and take forever. Ha ha.
    I found that the HP laser printer was an absolute heap of junk and a waste of £150.

    I think the problem there is that 150 quid is not an expensive laser printer -- it is a cheap laser printer, and thus it will have been value-engineered to death. I spent 250 quid on my multifunction HP laserjet and it's still working fine 9 years later...

    I find the advantage of laser over inkjet is for the very-occasional-user: if you need to print one document every three months then what I found was that an inkjet would always have dried up ink and not print properly. (Perhaps they're better these days? I switched to laser a decade or more back.) Because toner is powder, not liquid, a laser printer won't have this issue.
    My policy has been to pick up end of life medium office grade laser printers that still have a few thousand pages of life left in them and run them until the mechanisms pack up or one of the very expensive consumables needs replacing. Current house printer is an HP3015 duplex. Cost me £30 five years ago & is still going. Only thing I’ve done to it over that period is stick a cheap toner cartridge in it made by the OEM who manufactured the printer in the first place.
  • eristdoof said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Tory front bench. I have seen happier faces at funerals in January.

    Curious as to why January? What are the best months for funerals?
    January is a depressing month, and funerals are depressing. At least the departed made it to christmas though.
    I don't mind a bit of January as long as we are allowed to go skiing!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,124
    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    Sometimes a shorter cycle on the washing machine uses more energy. My machine has longer cycles that have more time for soaking, which means there is less agitation of the clothes required to clean them, so less energy is used, because the drum isn't turned as much.

    People really need to check the manuals with their appliances, because sometimes they can get these things wrong.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,863
    edited October 2022
    Boris would regularly get himself into a pickle by being too lazy to do his homework, but he had a charm and bravado that could disguise his ignorance, and allow him to deflect the questioner.

    Truss sounds like someone who has blagged their way into a job they are manifestly incapable of doing, and is stuck slowly and drearily parroting the same irrelevant talking points.

    It's mind-boggling that Tory members thought "she's the one". If this was an audition no way would Truss get a callback.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 1,202
    AlistairM said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    DYOR but I believe 5 hour eco cycles on washing machines are cheaper than the 1 hour quick and dirty.
    I've been using a 15 minute cycle. I'm struggling to see how a 5 hour cycle would cost less but I will check!
    Most of the energy use in a washing machine is in heating the water I think - spinning the drum is a small fraction of the total.

    So a single wash is much more energy efficient than a double wash & a long cool wash is better than a short hot one.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,105
    glw said:

    Boris would regularly get himself into a pickle by being too lazy to do his homework, but he had a charm and bravado that could disguise his ignorance, and allow him to deflect the questioner.

    Truss sounds like someone who has blagged their way into a job they are manifestly incapable of doing, and is stuck slowly and drearily parroting the same irrelevant talking points.

    It's mind-boggling that Tory members thought "she's the one". If this was an audition no way would Truss get a callback.

    And she was only five MP's votes away from elimination in the final round. We are truly in the darkest timeline.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,855
    edited October 2022
    glw said:

    Boris would regularly get himself into a pickle by being too lazy to do his homework, but he had a charm and bravado that could disguise his ignorance, and allow him to deflect the questioner.

    Truss sounds like someone who has blagged their way into a job they are manifestly incapable of doing, and is stuck slowly and drearily parroting the same irrelevant talking points.

    It's mind-boggling that Tory members thought "she's the one". If this was an audition no way would Truss get a callback.

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,105
    glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    True, but the Tory membership are also demonstrably idiots.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Seems to me the LDI issue (is it too soon to call it a scandal?) seems eerily similar to the sub-prime issue in 2007/8.

    No one it seems in LDI pension land had modelled or planned for an unprecedented gilt yield change so suddenly of more than 1%.

    Just as no one in big banks and insurance companies and ratings agencies back in 2007/8 had bothered to ask: what happens if the housing market drops by a big wedge, perhaps bigger than ever before?

    This one is on the pensions regulator and not BoE.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,745
    Magnificent effort by Curran, he really should be MOTM for that. He has surely played himself into the first 11 for the WC too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,817
    AlistairM said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    DYOR but I believe 5 hour eco cycles on washing machines are cheaper than the 1 hour quick and dirty.
    I've been using a 15 minute cycle. I'm struggling to see how a 5 hour cycle would cost less but I will check!
    The question is the energy used to heat water (generally hotter for short cycles) vs the energy used to rotate the drum.

    Incidentally, just installed a heat pump condenser dryer - massive reduction in power consumption.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,101
    What the actual…..is this actually telling surgeons to reduce operations that might involve blood? https://twitter.com/shaunlintern/status/1580142571271389186
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,045
    glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    Anyone who denies the existence of racism is quite evidently an idiot.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    glw said:

    Boris would regularly get himself into a pickle by being too lazy to do his homework, but he had a charm and bravado that could disguise his ignorance, and allow him to deflect the questioner.

    Truss sounds like someone who has blagged their way into a job they are manifestly incapable of doing, and is stuck slowly and drearily parroting the same irrelevant talking points.

    It's mind-boggling that Tory members thought "she's the one". If this was an audition no way would Truss get a callback.

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?
    They wanted Badenoch.

    You need to steer clear odf the whole satire space.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    JRM was excruciatingly smarmy and patronising on R4 this morning. He ended up accusing the interviewer of being in breach of the BBC Charter because she had the temerity to suggest that there was a link between the 'mini-budget' and the subsequent market turmoil. He denied any such link. The BBC is, of course, another enemy within and part of the anti-growth coalition.

    I'm not sure that JRM is right, and the BBC (and 99% of commentators) wrong on this. He's insufferable.

    Oh, well if 99% of commentators are saying something, why should any of us look at the facts and take an informed view?
    99% of doctors do not recommend bleach for covid.
    Nobody recommends bleach for Covid.
    Oh? Don't you remember?

    Not so much now, perhaps, but it is still a thing, if not as huge as it was.

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/05/cdc-misusing-bleach-try-kill-coronavirus/
    https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/health/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-drinking-miracle-mineral-solution-puts-covid-patient-in-icu/
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/11/anti-vaxxers-covid-drinking-urine-misinformation
    It was never 'huge', nor do your sources show it to have been.

    I do remember the scandal over Trump's remarks, where he rambled on about 'injecting' 'disinfectant', and several virtue signalling idiots (including Sturgeon afaicr) misquoted him as having suggested 'ingesting' dangerous substances - bringing a completely different and more dangerous idea to the public. Thanks Nicola you massive twat.
    Scott_xP said:

    JRM comments on mini-budget merely an affirmation of government’s position throughout- which is that the mini-budget was not responsible for the chaos in mortgage markets and financial instability. This is self-evidently not the case. BoE has effectively confirmed as much.
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1580136705104887808

    Two problems with this line

    1) economic: it sends a signal to the markets that govt doesn’t understand the problem and makes them more jittery still.
    2) political: all the polling shows the public absolutely blame the govt and this line won’t work, risks making situ worse.

    One problem with the Lewis Goodall line, why would the BOE confirm that their own interventions were in fact responsible? Mandy Rice Davis applies.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,480
    HYUFD said:

    *Orders lackey to gralloch a heap of deer guts on to the heather*

    'It's what she would have wanted'




    The Queen also supported blood sports, it is perfectly legal and deer are not endangered species and indeed venison is very tasty
    On this I agree with my royalist friend - deer are a pest and lack natural predators across the nation. They need culling, and the happy byproduct is excellent, heathy meat.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    pm215 said:

    darkage said:


    Yeah I've had this problem with HP laser printers. I thought I would make my life easier by buying an expensive laser printer rather than the cartridge printers that are slow and take forever. Ha ha.
    I found that the HP laser printer was an absolute heap of junk and a waste of £150.

    I think the problem there is that 150 quid is not an expensive laser printer -- it is a cheap laser printer, and thus it will have been value-engineered to death. I spent 250 quid on my multifunction HP laserjet and it's still working fine 9 years later...

    I find the advantage of laser over inkjet is for the very-occasional-user: if you need to print one document every three months then what I found was that an inkjet would always have dried up ink and not print properly. (Perhaps they're better these days? I switched to laser a decade or more back.) Because toner is powder, not liquid, a laser printer won't have this issue.
    HP used to do incredible value cheap Laser printers. The HP1020 was an absolute bargin - but it started eating into their low end commercial sales it was so good at price-to-performance.

    So what they've done over the last decade is make their consumer Laserjets absolute shit.

    Apparently Brother are the brand you want to go with for a cheap but good B&W Laser these days.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,003
    edited October 2022

    Seems to me the LDI issue (is it too soon to call it a scandal?) seems eerily similar to the sub-prime issue in 2007/8.

    No one it seems in LDI pension land had modelled or planned for an unprecedented gilt yield change so suddenly of more than 1%.

    Just as no one in big banks and insurance companies and ratings agencies back in 2007/8 had bothered to ask: what happens if the housing market drops by a big wedge, perhaps bigger than ever before?

    This one is on the pensions regulator and not BoE.

    And to be truly fair, if Kwasi budget had been different it may not have highlited we had this problem, so that’s something in the Chancellors credit column, he is gifted at smoking out our economy’s long time inherent vice.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,195
    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,741
    glw said:

    Boris would regularly get himself into a pickle by being too lazy to do his homework, but he had a charm and bravado that could disguise his ignorance, and allow him to deflect the questioner.

    Truss sounds like someone who has blagged their way into a job they are manifestly incapable of doing, and is stuck slowly and drearily parroting the same irrelevant talking points.

    It's mind-boggling that Tory members thought "she's the one". If this was an audition no way would Truss get a callback.

    Was she as gormless in the hustings? Obviously, I didn't watch them which I regret as I would have liked to see Kate McCann flake out.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,480
    edited October 2022

    Phil said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    Even if you can afford to pay for it, I think reducing energy usage right now is preceived as the moral & patriotic thing to do. Every therm you don’t use is a therm that can be used in other parts of the EU that are more dependent on gas than we are, ensuring they make it through the winter.
    Christmas lights are going to divide the nation! Fury from both sides, pitchforks at dusk in small rural villages, town councils baffled as to what to do.
    LED's now so not much energy used. I mean you can get ones powered by 2xAA batteries that will do 4 hours at night through the whole Christmas period, no problem at all.

    If the thickies out there can't work that equation out, then I despair.

    Edited as typed drivel initially
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 1,477

    HYUFD said:

    *Orders lackey to gralloch a heap of deer guts on to the heather*

    'It's what she would have wanted'




    The Queen also supported blood sports, it is perfectly legal and deer are not endangered species and indeed venison is very tasty
    On this I agree with my royalist friend - deer are a pest and lack natural predators across the nation. They need culling, and the happy byproduct is excellent, heathy meat.
    Yeah, as a veggie, I'm still in favour of others culling deer - they are an animal that needs population control, and bringing back their natural predators (whilst my preferred method) seems to not be what others want.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,101
    NEW:
    Bank of England chief economist Huw Pill:

    Mini Budget “will add to inflationary pressure coming from energy guarantee”and

    “volatile market dynamics that followed announcement of Growth Plan underline the need to bolster the credibility of wider institutional framework” https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1580163899726630916/photo/1
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299

    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    Speaking of fantasies...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,003
    glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    Someone used the racist term “Black Friday” in this thread and got away with it. If it’s a specially bad day on the markets surely that is Red Friday?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 1,477

    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    I mean, McDonnell had a plan on how to fund the Corbyn spending and indeed had spent a lot of time talking to businesses about how it would work - those businesses may not have liked it but they could have seen how more German style worker involvement in boards, or a more progressive tax system, would have worked and they could plan business around it. The problem with Truss is that she has not put out a long term plan or how it would work, and that has spooked the markets as much as the uncosted nature of the spend.
  • glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    Someone used the racist term “Black Friday” in this thread and got away with it. If it’s a specially bad day on the markets surely that is Red Friday?
    Seeing as it is caused by Bluekip, Friday Blues?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 1,202
    Scott_xP said:

    What the actual…..is this actually telling surgeons to reduce operations that might involve blood? https://twitter.com/shaunlintern/status/1580142571271389186

    Having given blood before I regularly get pleading emails asking me to donate from blood.co.uk only to go online to discover that the only donation opportunity within 50 miles is six months away. Unless the NHS boosts donation capacity they are not going to be able to cope with these short term shortages - people are perfectly willing to turn out & donate, but there’s no point asking them if the capacity isn’t there.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    glw said:

    Boris would regularly get himself into a pickle by being too lazy to do his homework, but he had a charm and bravado that could disguise his ignorance, and allow him to deflect the questioner.

    Truss sounds like someone who has blagged their way into a job they are manifestly incapable of doing, and is stuck slowly and drearily parroting the same irrelevant talking points.

    It's mind-boggling that Tory members thought "she's the one". If this was an audition no way would Truss get a callback.

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?
    They wanted Badenoch.

    You need to steer clear odf the whole satire space.
    They had a choice of Sunak or Truss...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Chris said:

    glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    Anyone who denies the existence of racism is quite evidently an idiot.
    You are a disgusting bigoted racist pig.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,863
    edited October 2022
    Chris said:

    glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    Anyone who denies the existence of racism is quite evidently an idiot.
    Nobody is denying racism, but Sunak didn't lose because of Tory membership racism.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299
    glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    Yep. Not pretty.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 11,124
    edited October 2022
    This is quite a claim. I wonder how far Iran will take this involvement at a time when they're facing a large protest movement at home?

    NOËL 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports
    ·
    1m
    🇮🇷 instructors arrived in occupied Kherson and Crimea to launch Shahed-136 kamikaze drones. It is reported by the Center for National Resistance.

    They control the launch of drones on 🇺🇦 civilian targets. In particular, attacks on Nikolaev/Odessa took place under their control


    https://mobile.twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1580164540226244608
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 106,927
    edited October 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has the Free Speech Union been on this?

    Celtic have been fined over “provocative” anti-monarchy banners displayed by their fans at a Champions League match last month, less than a week after the Queen’s death.

    One banner spotted in the Celtic section of the ground during their 1-1 draw with Ukrainian side Shakhtar Donetsk in Poland on September 14 stated “F*** the crown”.

    Another read “Sorry For Your Loss Michael Fagan” — a reference to a man who broke into the Queen’s bedroom in 1982.

    The Scottish champions have been fined €15,000 (£13,000) by Uefa’s control, ethics and disciplinary body over what was described as “a message not fit for a sporting event (ie a provocative banner)”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-fined-for-anti-monarchy-banners-p25fb2jjj

    Quite right too, that could also count as hate speech in the aftermath of the Queen's death.

    They should have done what Rangers did

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgID9PFU44
    Hate speech? Defined how? Is republicanism a banned belief?
    Arguably yes, if it is treason and disloyalty to the Crown
    Treason? Really? I am a republican. Thought was a legal opinion to hold and express. Do you disagree?
    Arguably that would be treason legally.

    The Treason Act 1848 makes it treason felony to try and deprive the sovereign of the Crown.

    The Treason Act 1351 makes it illegal to give aid and comfort to the sovereign's enemies
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,480
    148grss said:

    HYUFD said:

    *Orders lackey to gralloch a heap of deer guts on to the heather*

    'It's what she would have wanted'




    The Queen also supported blood sports, it is perfectly legal and deer are not endangered species and indeed venison is very tasty
    On this I agree with my royalist friend - deer are a pest and lack natural predators across the nation. They need culling, and the happy byproduct is excellent, heathy meat.
    Yeah, as a veggie, I'm still in favour of others culling deer - they are an animal that needs population control, and bringing back their natural predators (whilst my preferred method) seems to not be what others want.
    I'm on board with that - wolves, lynx etc. Sady although my dog thinks she can hunt deer, she can't.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,003
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:
    Bank of England chief economist Huw Pill:

    Mini Budget “will add to inflationary pressure coming from energy guarantee”and

    “volatile market dynamics that followed announcement of Growth Plan underline the need to bolster the credibility of wider institutional framework” https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1580163899726630916/photo/1

    This looks like the day everyone finally realises the overly expensive and regressive energy price guarantee (Tories bucking the market) is no longer preferable to the alternatives such as variable price.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    glw said:

    Boris would regularly get himself into a pickle by being too lazy to do his homework, but he had a charm and bravado that could disguise his ignorance, and allow him to deflect the questioner.

    Truss sounds like someone who has blagged their way into a job they are manifestly incapable of doing, and is stuck slowly and drearily parroting the same irrelevant talking points.

    It's mind-boggling that Tory members thought "she's the one". If this was an audition no way would Truss get a callback.

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?
    They wanted Badenoch.

    You need to steer clear odf the whole satire space.
    They had a choice of Sunak or Truss...
    Yes, because that was the choice given to them by MPs. left to their own devices they would have gone for mordaunt or badenoch

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mordaunt-badenoch-tory-members-poll-b2120709.html

    Therefore they preferred black Badenoch over white Truss.

    Therefore the best evidence is that their preferences were not racially based.

    How hard really is this?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,480
    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has the Free Speech Union been on this?

    Celtic have been fined over “provocative” anti-monarchy banners displayed by their fans at a Champions League match last month, less than a week after the Queen’s death.

    One banner spotted in the Celtic section of the ground during their 1-1 draw with Ukrainian side Shakhtar Donetsk in Poland on September 14 stated “F*** the crown”.

    Another read “Sorry For Your Loss Michael Fagan” — a reference to a man who broke into the Queen’s bedroom in 1982.

    The Scottish champions have been fined €15,000 (£13,000) by Uefa’s control, ethics and disciplinary body over what was described as “a message not fit for a sporting event (ie a provocative banner)”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-fined-for-anti-monarchy-banners-p25fb2jjj

    Quite right too, that could also count as hate speech in the aftermath of the Queen's death.

    They should have done what Rangers did

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgID9PFU44
    Hate speech? Defined how? Is republicanism a banned belief?
    Arguably yes, if it is treason and disloyalty to the Crown
    Treason? Really? I am a republican. Thought was a legal opinion to hold and express. Do you disagree?
    Arguably that would be treason legally.

    The Treason Act 1848 makes it treason felony to try and deprive the sovereign of the Crown.

    The Treason Act 1351 makes it illegal to give aid and comfort to the sovereign's enemies
    Doesn't this stray into 'legal to shoot Welshman with crossbows in Hereford' territory though? There are many laws that are no longer enforced.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,195

    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    Speaking of fantasies...
    Maybe, but I can dream that there will be a will in government to take clear action to stabilise things. At the moment I have no such confidence.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,003
    glw said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    Anyone who denies the existence of racism is quite evidently an idiot.
    Nobody is denying racism, but Sunak didn't lose because of Tory membership racism.
    Did it play at all in todays Tory membership? I’m not at all sure it did. Tory’s I know are not like that at all.
  • glw said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    Anyone who denies the existence of racism is quite evidently an idiot.
    Nobody is denying racism, but Sunak didn't lose because of Tory membership racism.
    The positive thing about the Tory party is that its MPs are a lot more tolerant and seated in the 21st century than the members.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:
    Bank of England chief economist Huw Pill:

    Mini Budget “will add to inflationary pressure coming from energy guarantee”and

    “volatile market dynamics that followed announcement of Growth Plan underline the need to bolster the credibility of wider institutional framework” https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1580163899726630916/photo/1

    This looks like the day everyone finally realises the overly expensive and regressive energy price guarantee (Tories bucking the market) is no longer preferable to the alternatives such as variable price.
    The energy price guarantee reduces headline inflation.

    I think we have got to a stage where the BOE has declared war on the Government, but the Government hasn't picked up a weapon yet.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,844

    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    Speaking of fantasies...
    Maybe, but I can dream that there will be a will in government to take clear action to stabilise things. At the moment I have no such confidence.

    I dreamed a dream in times gone by
    When hope was high and life worth living
    I dreamed, that Sunak would never die
  • 148grss said:

    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    I mean, McDonnell had a plan on how to fund the Corbyn spending and indeed had spent a lot of time talking to businesses about how it would work - those businesses may not have liked it but they could have seen how more German style worker involvement in boards, or a more progressive tax system, would have worked and they could plan business around it. The problem with Truss is that she has not put out a long term plan or how it would work, and that has spooked the markets as much as the uncosted nature of the spend.
    Lets not get too carried away. McDonnell produced Mao's Little Red Book, quoted from it then gently tossed his copy across the table towards Osborne who was visibly orgasming in delight.

    Not everything he proposed was stupid - same with Kwarteng. But the simple reality is that the markets would have utterly crucified him because he, Corbyn and the entire project was deeply suspect.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,393

    Lots of afterburner activity over Lincolnshire this afternoon.

    Coningsby QRA out chasing bears?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299

    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    Speaking of fantasies...
    Maybe, but I can dream that there will be a will in government to take clear action to stabilise things. At the moment I have no such confidence.

    It is not within the gift of the Government to stabilise things - the instability is being stoked by the BOE.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 16,232
    edited October 2022

    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    Speaking of fantasies...
    Maybe, but I can dream that there will be a will in government to take clear action to stabilise things. At the moment I have no such confidence.

    It is not within the gift of the Government to stabilise things - the instability is being stoked by the BOE.
    How long has the BoE been going? How long has this government been going? When did the instability start? Did Sunak and others warn such instability would start if the govt pressed ahead?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    glw said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    Anyone who denies the existence of racism is quite evidently an idiot.
    Nobody is denying racism, but Sunak didn't lose because of Tory membership racism.
    Did it play at all in todays Tory membership? I’m not at all sure it did. Tory’s I know are not like that at all.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mordaunt-badenoch-tory-members-poll-b2120709.html

    Members prefs descending order mordaunt badenoch sunak braverman truss. You have to work quite hard to infer racism from that lot.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,776

    148grss said:

    HYUFD said:

    *Orders lackey to gralloch a heap of deer guts on to the heather*

    'It's what she would have wanted'




    The Queen also supported blood sports, it is perfectly legal and deer are not endangered species and indeed venison is very tasty
    On this I agree with my royalist friend - deer are a pest and lack natural predators across the nation. They need culling, and the happy byproduct is excellent, heathy meat.
    Yeah, as a veggie, I'm still in favour of others culling deer - they are an animal that needs population control, and bringing back their natural predators (whilst my preferred method) seems to not be what others want.
    I'm on board with that - wolves, lynx etc. Sady although my dog thinks she can hunt deer, she can't.
    They need to bring in helicopter hunting. The forestry commission alone plan to cull 30,000 deer per year in Scotland.

    The other problem is sheep but you'll piss off the farmers if you go near that...
  • I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    Speaking of fantasies...
    Maybe, but I can dream that there will be a will in government to take clear action to stabilise things. At the moment I have no such confidence.

    It is not within the gift of the Government to stabilise things - the instability is being stoked by the BOE.
    How long has the BoE been going? How long has this government been going? When did the instability start? Did Sunak and others warn such instability would start if the govt pressed ahead?
    The instability started within 24 hours of the Bank of England announcing unprecedented Quantitative Tightening that it has never done before, and has never been done at scale by any Central Bank, anywhere in the world that I can think of, apart from the Federal Reserve which is rather sui generis.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW:
    Bank of England chief economist Huw Pill:

    Mini Budget “will add to inflationary pressure coming from energy guarantee”and

    “volatile market dynamics that followed announcement of Growth Plan underline the need to bolster the credibility of wider institutional framework” https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1580163899726630916/photo/1

    This looks like the day everyone finally realises the overly expensive and regressive energy price guarantee (Tories bucking the market) is no longer preferable to the alternatives such as variable price.
    Is your variable price cap idea just 'Use up to this band's worth of energy and it' s capped here (low), anything over is capped here, and anything over that is capped here, like income tax? So a poorer person who's barely using a kettle and an electric heater gets quite a low rate? If so, it sounds sensible. My defence of the Government does not rest on the idea that their energy guarantee is the best thing since sliced bread.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,522

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has the Free Speech Union been on this?

    Celtic have been fined over “provocative” anti-monarchy banners displayed by their fans at a Champions League match last month, less than a week after the Queen’s death.

    One banner spotted in the Celtic section of the ground during their 1-1 draw with Ukrainian side Shakhtar Donetsk in Poland on September 14 stated “F*** the crown”.

    Another read “Sorry For Your Loss Michael Fagan” — a reference to a man who broke into the Queen’s bedroom in 1982.

    The Scottish champions have been fined €15,000 (£13,000) by Uefa’s control, ethics and disciplinary body over what was described as “a message not fit for a sporting event (ie a provocative banner)”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-fined-for-anti-monarchy-banners-p25fb2jjj

    Quite right too, that could also count as hate speech in the aftermath of the Queen's death.

    They should have done what Rangers did

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgID9PFU44
    Hate speech? Defined how? Is republicanism a banned belief?
    Arguably yes, if it is treason and disloyalty to the Crown
    Treason? Really? I am a republican. Thought was a legal opinion to hold and express. Do you disagree?
    Take it as a complement.

    HYUFD said that Sunak was a "traitor" then voted for him.
    A complement to what?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,393

    This is quite a claim. I wonder how far Iran will take this involvement at a time when they're facing a large protest movement at home?

    NOËL 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports
    ·
    1m
    🇮🇷 instructors arrived in occupied Kherson and Crimea to launch Shahed-136 kamikaze drones. It is reported by the Center for National Resistance.

    They control the launch of drones on 🇺🇦 civilian targets. In particular, attacks on Nikolaev/Odessa took place under their control


    https://mobile.twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1580164540226244608

    Well I don’t think Biden will have too many qualms, about sending a drone or two of his own to the Iranian factory.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299
    edited October 2022

    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    Speaking of fantasies...
    Maybe, but I can dream that there will be a will in government to take clear action to stabilise things. At the moment I have no such confidence.

    It is not within the gift of the Government to stabilise things - the instability is being stoked by the BOE.
    How long has the BoE been going? How long has this government been going? When did the instability start? Did Sunak and others warn such instability would start if the govt pressed ahead?
    The instability started within 24 hours of the Bank of England announcing unprecedented Quantitative Tightening that it has never done before, and has never been done at scale by any Central Bank, anywhere in the world that I can think of, apart from the Federal Reserve which is rather sui generis.
    The Government needs to challenge the Bank. They should see if they can get a former Governer like Eddie George (from when they were still decent) to make a strong statement on the current dangerous course, and steal back the agenda from there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 106,927

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has the Free Speech Union been on this?

    Celtic have been fined over “provocative” anti-monarchy banners displayed by their fans at a Champions League match last month, less than a week after the Queen’s death.

    One banner spotted in the Celtic section of the ground during their 1-1 draw with Ukrainian side Shakhtar Donetsk in Poland on September 14 stated “F*** the crown”.

    Another read “Sorry For Your Loss Michael Fagan” — a reference to a man who broke into the Queen’s bedroom in 1982.

    The Scottish champions have been fined €15,000 (£13,000) by Uefa’s control, ethics and disciplinary body over what was described as “a message not fit for a sporting event (ie a provocative banner)”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-fined-for-anti-monarchy-banners-p25fb2jjj

    Quite right too, that could also count as hate speech in the aftermath of the Queen's death.

    They should have done what Rangers did

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgID9PFU44
    Hate speech? Defined how? Is republicanism a banned belief?
    Arguably yes, if it is treason and disloyalty to the Crown
    Treason? Really? I am a republican. Thought was a legal opinion to hold and express. Do you disagree?
    Arguably that would be treason legally.

    The Treason Act 1848 makes it treason felony to try and deprive the sovereign of the Crown.

    The Treason Act 1351 makes it illegal to give aid and comfort to the sovereign's enemies
    Doesn't this stray into 'legal to shoot Welshman with crossbows in Hereford' territory though? There are many laws that are no longer enforced.
    They may no longer be actively enforced but if the government of the day told the police to actively enforce them they legally would have to
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 106,927
    edited October 2022

    glw said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    But the other one was a darkie. So what choice did they have really?

    You really are an idiot for posting that.
    Anyone who denies the existence of racism is quite evidently an idiot.
    Nobody is denying racism, but Sunak didn't lose because of Tory membership racism.
    Did it play at all in todays Tory membership? I’m not at all sure it did. Tory’s I know are not like that at all.
    Indeed and Badenoch, who is not white, was Tory members preferred candidate in the final Yougov polls during the MPs ballots
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,393

    Phil said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    Even if you can afford to pay for it, I think reducing energy usage right now is preceived as the moral & patriotic thing to do. Every therm you don’t use is a therm that can be used in other parts of the EU that are more dependent on gas than we are, ensuring they make it through the winter.
    Christmas lights are going to divide the nation! Fury from both sides, pitchforks at dusk in small rural villages, town councils baffled as to what to do.
    Make sure they’re all LED lights, powered by batteries.

    Anyone using thousands of incandescent lights, will have the shock of their lives when the bill comes through!
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,545
    Those are truly horrendous numbers for Truss. Starmer is one lucky guy. There cannot be any way back for her now.

    It is unlikely someone as power hungry as she seems to be will relinquish the top job willingly, especially having taken so long to get it.

    She will take the Tory Party down with her. That is probably not a bad thing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299
    Eabhal said:

    148grss said:

    HYUFD said:

    *Orders lackey to gralloch a heap of deer guts on to the heather*

    'It's what she would have wanted'




    The Queen also supported blood sports, it is perfectly legal and deer are not endangered species and indeed venison is very tasty
    On this I agree with my royalist friend - deer are a pest and lack natural predators across the nation. They need culling, and the happy byproduct is excellent, heathy meat.
    Yeah, as a veggie, I'm still in favour of others culling deer - they are an animal that needs population control, and bringing back their natural predators (whilst my preferred method) seems to not be what others want.
    I'm on board with that - wolves, lynx etc. Sady although my dog thinks she can hunt deer, she can't.
    They need to bring in helicopter hunting. The forestry commission alone plan to cull 30,000 deer per year in Scotland.

    The other problem is sheep but you'll piss off the farmers if you go near that...
    You think we should allow helicopter hunting of sheep?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,844
    I thought about the attack line for Labour - "If you vote for Truss at the next GE, who knows who you will end up with ?"
    But actually that would help the Conservatives out.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,702
    I just can’t see the Tory party sticking with Truss for much longer

    Just shambolic.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 18,002

    IanB2 said:

    Lefties should really praise Liz Truss.

    She's destroyed the Tory party for a generation.

    I believe we spotted this consolation quite early on.
    The LDs in the mid 1990s with their sleeper plan.
    More overnight trains? Hurray!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,776

    Eabhal said:

    148grss said:

    HYUFD said:

    *Orders lackey to gralloch a heap of deer guts on to the heather*

    'It's what she would have wanted'




    The Queen also supported blood sports, it is perfectly legal and deer are not endangered species and indeed venison is very tasty
    On this I agree with my royalist friend - deer are a pest and lack natural predators across the nation. They need culling, and the happy byproduct is excellent, heathy meat.
    Yeah, as a veggie, I'm still in favour of others culling deer - they are an animal that needs population control, and bringing back their natural predators (whilst my preferred method) seems to not be what others want.
    I'm on board with that - wolves, lynx etc. Sady although my dog thinks she can hunt deer, she can't.
    They need to bring in helicopter hunting. The forestry commission alone plan to cull 30,000 deer per year in Scotland.

    The other problem is sheep but you'll piss off the farmers if you go near that...
    You think we should allow helicopter hunting of sheep?
    Haha, no. Just that they have the same impact on the natural environment as deer - eating samplings etc
  • Sandpit said:

    Phil said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    Even if you can afford to pay for it, I think reducing energy usage right now is preceived as the moral & patriotic thing to do. Every therm you don’t use is a therm that can be used in other parts of the EU that are more dependent on gas than we are, ensuring they make it through the winter.
    Christmas lights are going to divide the nation! Fury from both sides, pitchforks at dusk in small rural villages, town councils baffled as to what to do.
    Make sure they’re all LED lights, powered by batteries.

    Anyone using thousands of incandescent lights, will have the shock of their lives when the bill comes through!
    And the taxpayer will be subbing the bills heavily. The houses that go for ultra bling should be expecting to get them vandalised overnight.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,844

    Sandpit said:

    Phil said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    Even if you can afford to pay for it, I think reducing energy usage right now is preceived as the moral & patriotic thing to do. Every therm you don’t use is a therm that can be used in other parts of the EU that are more dependent on gas than we are, ensuring they make it through the winter.
    Christmas lights are going to divide the nation! Fury from both sides, pitchforks at dusk in small rural villages, town councils baffled as to what to do.
    Make sure they’re all LED lights, powered by batteries.

    Anyone using thousands of incandescent lights, will have the shock of their lives when the bill comes through!
    And the taxpayer will be subbing the bills heavily. The houses that go for ultra bling should be expecting to get them vandalised overnight.
    What about if they're on a cheap fix ?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,741
    Sandpit said:

    Lots of afterburner activity over Lincolnshire this afternoon.

    Coningsby QRA out chasing bears?
    Generally don't need the full send for RuAF trade as they have usually transited the Norwegian Bodo FIR before the CAOC at Uedem hands them off to the RAF. Unrestricted departure is more likely to be civvie traffic that is unresponsive to ATC.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Phil said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    Even if you can afford to pay for it, I think reducing energy usage right now is preceived as the moral & patriotic thing to do. Every therm you don’t use is a therm that can be used in other parts of the EU that are more dependent on gas than we are, ensuring they make it through the winter.
    Christmas lights are going to divide the nation! Fury from both sides, pitchforks at dusk in small rural villages, town councils baffled as to what to do.
    Make sure they’re all LED lights, powered by batteries.

    Anyone using thousands of incandescent lights, will have the shock of their lives when the bill comes through!
    And the taxpayer will be subbing the bills heavily. The houses that go for ultra bling should be expecting to get them vandalised overnight.
    What about if they're on a cheap fix ?
    Still not great for the environment regardless. And didnt the govt reduce peoples fixes or was that only if the fix would have been over the cap?
  • I just can’t see the Tory party sticking with Truss for much longer

    Just shambolic.

    She was asked a direct question about committing not to unleash cuts to public spending and responded "absolutely" to gasps. From what we know its very unlikely she has discussed any firm decision with cabinet - indeed reports out of cabinet were very clear that no decision had been made.

    But lets step back and understand what she means. She thinks a cut is a cash terms cut. In reality a cut is anything less than inflation. So she thinks she is being so smart saying "absolutely" thinking that she simply points to a 5% rise as a rise and not a cut. Despite literally everyone else knowing it is a real terms cut and saying so.

    We're back to her being the smartest person in the room. Except that she isn't...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299

    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    Speaking of fantasies...
    Maybe, but I can dream that there will be a will in government to take clear action to stabilise things. At the moment I have no such confidence.

    It is not within the gift of the Government to stabilise things - the instability is being stoked by the BOE.
    How long has the BoE been going? How long has this government been going? When did the instability start? Did Sunak and others warn such instability would start if the govt pressed ahead?
    Is this a serious post? You're ignoring the substance of what has actually taken place and giving the BOE the benefit of the doubt because they've 'been going' a long time? Wow.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,393
    IshmaelZ said:

    pm215 said:

    darkage said:


    Yeah I've had this problem with HP laser printers. I thought I would make my life easier by buying an expensive laser printer rather than the cartridge printers that are slow and take forever. Ha ha.
    I found that the HP laser printer was an absolute heap of junk and a waste of £150.

    I think the problem there is that 150 quid is not an expensive laser printer -- it is a cheap laser printer, and thus it will have been value-engineered to death. I spent 250 quid on my multifunction HP laserjet and it's still working fine 9 years later...

    I find the advantage of laser over inkjet is for the very-occasional-user: if you need to print one document every three months then what I found was that an inkjet would always have dried up ink and not print properly. (Perhaps they're better these days? I switched to laser a decade or more back.) Because toner is powder, not liquid, a laser printer won't have this issue.
    Seems not to be a problem, I have been printing 5 docs a year for 4 years on the one inkjet

    Toppest tip of all is: avoid wireless printers at all costs and NEVER expect them to work with a phone or tablet.
    My £5k office printer/copier can’t reliably keep the AirPrint service running for more than a few days!

    For a small office, recommend something like the HP Laserjet Pro 479fdw.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,393
    edited October 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lots of afterburner activity over Lincolnshire this afternoon.

    Coningsby QRA out chasing bears?
    Generally don't need the full send for RuAF trade as they have usually transited the Norwegian Bodo FIR before the CAOC at Uedem hands them off to the RAF. Unrestricted departure is more likely to be civvie traffic that is unresponsive to ATC.
    Some idiot who got the wrong frequency at the FIR boundary then - or who forgot the difference between 7000, 7700, 7600 and 7500, and managed to light up ATC’s panel like a Christmas tree!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    148grss said:

    HYUFD said:

    *Orders lackey to gralloch a heap of deer guts on to the heather*

    'It's what she would have wanted'




    The Queen also supported blood sports, it is perfectly legal and deer are not endangered species and indeed venison is very tasty
    On this I agree with my royalist friend - deer are a pest and lack natural predators across the nation. They need culling, and the happy byproduct is excellent, heathy meat.
    Yeah, as a veggie, I'm still in favour of others culling deer - they are an animal that needs population control, and bringing back their natural predators (whilst my preferred method) seems to not be what others want.
    I'm on board with that - wolves, lynx etc. Sady although my dog thinks she can hunt deer, she can't.
    They need to bring in helicopter hunting. The forestry commission alone plan to cull 30,000 deer per year in Scotland.

    The other problem is sheep but you'll piss off the farmers if you go near that...
    You think we should allow helicopter hunting of sheep?
    Haha, no. Just that they have the same impact on the natural environment as deer - eating samplings etc
    Assuming you mean saplings, is that an issue? Sheep graze on pasture, which isn't meant to turn into wood around them. Or is it?
  • I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    Speaking of fantasies...
    Maybe, but I can dream that there will be a will in government to take clear action to stabilise things. At the moment I have no such confidence.

    It is not within the gift of the Government to stabilise things - the instability is being stoked by the BOE.
    How long has the BoE been going? How long has this government been going? When did the instability start? Did Sunak and others warn such instability would start if the govt pressed ahead?
    Is this a serious post? You're ignoring the substance of what has actually taken place and giving the BOE the benefit of the doubt because they've 'been going' a long time? Wow.
    One organisations whole ethos is about maintaining stability and has been going a long time.

    The other one has been going a couple of weeks and promised to completely shake things up, which they have done (or at least attempted to do).

    I think the shakers up are far more likely to be causing the instability on that basis, yes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 20,299
    Taz said:

    Those are truly horrendous numbers for Truss. Starmer is one lucky guy. There cannot be any way back for her now.

    It is unlikely someone as power hungry as she seems to be will relinquish the top job willingly, especially having taken so long to get it.

    She will take the Tory Party down with her. That is probably not a bad thing.

    But is there a poll? Surely amongst all these character questions they asked people who they'd vote for?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,818
    edited October 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Phil said:

    AlistairM said:

    On energy consumption every single person I speak to is talking about what they are doing to reduce it. Not using the tumble dryer. Short cycles on washing machines. Avoiding using the central heating. Reducing time the hot water is on. Layering up. Turning off unused lights. This is all easy to do stuff. We just never bothered before. This is going to add up to a big reduction in energy usage.

    Even if you can afford to pay for it, I think reducing energy usage right now is preceived as the moral & patriotic thing to do. Every therm you don’t use is a therm that can be used in other parts of the EU that are more dependent on gas than we are, ensuring they make it through the winter.
    Christmas lights are going to divide the nation! Fury from both sides, pitchforks at dusk in small rural villages, town councils baffled as to what to do.
    Make sure they’re all LED lights, powered by batteries.

    Anyone using thousands of incandescent lights, will have the shock of their lives when the bill comes through!
    I have 10 50W halogens in one ceiling that I've been avoiding doing anything with for years and years because doing so involves crawling between two roof spaces and fighting through horrible glass fibre insulation in order to remove the transformers.

    We don't switch them on much but I cannot now justify keeping them any more, so I have the 5W replacements ready for the weekend.

    Another small decrease in GDP incoming. I wonder what kind of % cut in energy usage we'll get even without government intervention?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,480
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has the Free Speech Union been on this?

    Celtic have been fined over “provocative” anti-monarchy banners displayed by their fans at a Champions League match last month, less than a week after the Queen’s death.

    One banner spotted in the Celtic section of the ground during their 1-1 draw with Ukrainian side Shakhtar Donetsk in Poland on September 14 stated “F*** the crown”.

    Another read “Sorry For Your Loss Michael Fagan” — a reference to a man who broke into the Queen’s bedroom in 1982.

    The Scottish champions have been fined €15,000 (£13,000) by Uefa’s control, ethics and disciplinary body over what was described as “a message not fit for a sporting event (ie a provocative banner)”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-fined-for-anti-monarchy-banners-p25fb2jjj

    Quite right too, that could also count as hate speech in the aftermath of the Queen's death.

    They should have done what Rangers did

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgID9PFU44
    Hate speech? Defined how? Is republicanism a banned belief?
    Arguably yes, if it is treason and disloyalty to the Crown
    Treason? Really? I am a republican. Thought was a legal opinion to hold and express. Do you disagree?
    Arguably that would be treason legally.

    The Treason Act 1848 makes it treason felony to try and deprive the sovereign of the Crown.

    The Treason Act 1351 makes it illegal to give aid and comfort to the sovereign's enemies
    Doesn't this stray into 'legal to shoot Welshman with crossbows in Hereford' territory though? There are many laws that are no longer enforced.
    They may no longer be actively enforced but if the government of the day told the police to actively enforce them they legally would have to
    No jury in the land is going to convict a republican of treason if the offence is a sign saying 'Feck the Crown'.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,700

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    148grss said:

    HYUFD said:

    *Orders lackey to gralloch a heap of deer guts on to the heather*

    'It's what she would have wanted'




    The Queen also supported blood sports, it is perfectly legal and deer are not endangered species and indeed venison is very tasty
    On this I agree with my royalist friend - deer are a pest and lack natural predators across the nation. They need culling, and the happy byproduct is excellent, heathy meat.
    Yeah, as a veggie, I'm still in favour of others culling deer - they are an animal that needs population control, and bringing back their natural predators (whilst my preferred method) seems to not be what others want.
    I'm on board with that - wolves, lynx etc. Sady although my dog thinks she can hunt deer, she can't.
    They need to bring in helicopter hunting. The forestry commission alone plan to cull 30,000 deer per year in Scotland.

    The other problem is sheep but you'll piss off the farmers if you go near that...
    You think we should allow helicopter hunting of sheep?
    Haha, no. Just that they have the same impact on the natural environment as deer - eating samplings etc
    Assuming you mean saplings, is that an issue? Sheep graze on pasture, which isn't meant to turn into wood around them. Or is it?
    It does, by natural succession of plant and animal populations, through scrubland, to mature forest. If not over-populated, or artificially maintained as sheep pasture. (This does depend on altitude, wind, exposure, ground, and marshiness etc.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,700

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has the Free Speech Union been on this?

    Celtic have been fined over “provocative” anti-monarchy banners displayed by their fans at a Champions League match last month, less than a week after the Queen’s death.

    One banner spotted in the Celtic section of the ground during their 1-1 draw with Ukrainian side Shakhtar Donetsk in Poland on September 14 stated “F*** the crown”.

    Another read “Sorry For Your Loss Michael Fagan” — a reference to a man who broke into the Queen’s bedroom in 1982.

    The Scottish champions have been fined €15,000 (£13,000) by Uefa’s control, ethics and disciplinary body over what was described as “a message not fit for a sporting event (ie a provocative banner)”.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/celtic-fined-for-anti-monarchy-banners-p25fb2jjj

    Quite right too, that could also count as hate speech in the aftermath of the Queen's death.

    They should have done what Rangers did

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgID9PFU44
    Hate speech? Defined how? Is republicanism a banned belief?
    Arguably yes, if it is treason and disloyalty to the Crown
    Treason? Really? I am a republican. Thought was a legal opinion to hold and express. Do you disagree?
    Arguably that would be treason legally.

    The Treason Act 1848 makes it treason felony to try and deprive the sovereign of the Crown.

    The Treason Act 1351 makes it illegal to give aid and comfort to the sovereign's enemies
    Doesn't this stray into 'legal to shoot Welshman with crossbows in Hereford' territory though? There are many laws that are no longer enforced.
    They may no longer be actively enforced but if the government of the day told the police to actively enforce them they legally would have to
    No jury in the land is going to convict a republican of treason if the offence is a sign saying 'Feck the Crown'.
    Not treason anyway, but sedition. Which was abolished in Scotland in 2010. Not sure about rUK.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 10,146
    edited October 2022

    I really do fear what will happen to the markets now given Liz’s latest fantasy economics turn at the dispatch box.

    FFS this is what concerned so many about a Corbyn government, and it’s the Tories who have delivered it.

    Honestly think Brady and some other cabinet grandees should pay Liz a visit this week and agree a crisis plan. Kwarteng has to go this week (remarkably I think the loss of a chancellor would actually increase market confidence rather than dent it). A replacement needs to be found to basically scrap the mini budget and reinstitute Rishi’s economic plans (it might be too humiliating for her to appoint Rishi, so let’s say someone like Gove or May). And Liz confirms she’ll oversee the winter period but won’t fight the next GE. Gives the Tory Party time to organise a coronation in the spring.

    Speaking of fantasies...
    Maybe, but I can dream that there will be a will in government to take clear action to stabilise things. At the moment I have no such confidence.

    It is not within the gift of the Government to stabilise things - the instability is being stoked by the BOE.
    How long has the BoE been going? How long has this government been going? When did the instability start? Did Sunak and others warn such instability would start if the govt pressed ahead?
    Is this a serious post? You're ignoring the substance of what has actually taken place and giving the BOE the benefit of the doubt because they've 'been going' a long time? Wow.
    One organisations whole ethos is about maintaining stability and has been going a long time.

    The other one has been going a couple of weeks and promised to completely shake things up, which they have done (or at least attempted to do).

    I think the shakers up are far more likely to be causing the instability on that basis, yes.
    The one you are claiming has been going a long time has gone in two-footed with a novel policy it has never before attempted in its entire history, and has never been tried AFAIK by any other Central Bank anywhere in the entire world apart from the sui generis Federal Reserve.

    So sure, "stable". Novel policies that are unprecedented and have never been tried before may cause disruption, especially when you start off that policy with eighty billion pounds and not a small sum to test the water.

    And this untested, untried, unprecedented policy began at the same time (same 24 hour window) as the mini budget, so you can't rule it out.

    If you think the Bank of England is being stable and not "shaking" things then please point to the precedent, domestically or anywhere else apart from the USA, that the eighty billion of QT is following.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 31,817
    148grss said:

    HYUFD said:

    *Orders lackey to gralloch a heap of deer guts on to the heather*

    'It's what she would have wanted'




    The Queen also supported blood sports, it is perfectly legal and deer are not endangered species and indeed venison is very tasty
    On this I agree with my royalist friend - deer are a pest and lack natural predators across the nation. They need culling, and the happy byproduct is excellent, heathy meat.
    Yeah, as a veggie, I'm still in favour of others culling deer - they are an animal that needs population control, and bringing back their natural predators (whilst my preferred method) seems to not be what others want.
    Plus stalking involves the animal having a rather natural life until {bang}.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,741
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Lots of afterburner activity over Lincolnshire this afternoon.

    Coningsby QRA out chasing bears?
    Generally don't need the full send for RuAF trade as they have usually transited the Norwegian Bodo FIR before the CAOC at Uedem hands them off to the RAF. Unrestricted departure is more likely to be civvie traffic that is unresponsive to ATC.
    Some idiot who got the wrong frequency at the FIR boundary then - or who forgot the difference between 7000, 7700, 7600 and 7500, and managed to light up ATC’s panel like a Christmas tree!
    Swiss Hornets have a handy reminder on the centre tank for those that do fuck it up.


This discussion has been closed.