They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Is Elon Musk heading for financial trouble due to the war in Ukraine or something?
@KyivPost The @elonmusk situation is clearly getting out of hand, and it seems like pride and vanity play a behemoth role in his attempt to pose as an expert on #Ukraine.
Just stop, Elon. It's ok to admit that you overdid smth. Just stop.
------
@elonmusk replying to @KyivPost I’m a big fan of Ukraine, but not of WW3
What proportion of Twitter users are actually sitting in a windowless office in St Peterburg? Russia's defeat could seriously dent Twitter's user numbers.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Crumbs. Those are some serious (alleged) crimes. Which require jail time.
They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Also, hard to fix as changing leader may not resolve the issue.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Holy moly. Aside from just 'what the hell?!' - I wonder if this was under Dacre, Greig or Verity.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Crumbs. Those are some serious (alleged) crimes. Which require jail time.
Someone thought it was worth stabbing 4 people for a bike on Bishopsgate during this mornings rush hour. But if you listen to @MayorofLondon you’d think climate change is London’s number one issue at the moment
"The good news is, it's not a terror attack. And another piece of good news is the three victims of the stabbing are not in life-threatening situations, thank God. But it's just a reminder of the dangers of carrying the knife." - Sadiq Khan
You don't come back from this. But alternatives are unpalatable.
They're pretty screwed. Not about damage limitation and hoping the public shown uncharacteristic gratitude if the economy picks up, despite the horrendous winter we're about to experience.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Holy moly. Aside from just 'what the hell?!' - I wonder if this was under Dacre, Greig or Verity.
The conservative mps need to agree a single candidate and throw Truss out
I can't see that helping. I don't think they can coalesce around a single candidate and even if they did wouldn't the clamour for an election become unbearable? How many times can you change leader and claim a mandate? I think either they limp on with Truss in office but not in power, hoping something turns up, or we are heading towards a general election before next summer.
Someone thought it was worth stabbing 4 people for a bike on Bishopsgate during this mornings rush hour. But if you listen to @MayorofLondon you’d think climate change is London’s number one issue at the moment
"The good news is, it's not a terror attack. And another piece of good news is the three victims of the stabbing are not in life-threatening situations, thank God. But it's just a reminder of the dangers of carrying the knife." - Sadiq Khan
Climate change clearly a bigger problem than knife crime for Londoners. In the short term its cost of living people are most worried about. Most Londoners find it a very safe city.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Holy moly. Aside from just 'what the hell?!' - I wonder if this was under Dacre, Greig or Verity.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Wow.
That's a pretty serious set of allegations. If subsequent investigation bears them out, then one might expect some individuals are likely to see the inside of a jail.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Interesting that if we look back all the way back to Operation Motorman, Mirror / NOTW / Mail were all up to naughty stuff (well all the papers were including the holy than thou ones, but those 3 pumped lots of money into it). However, after the plod called all the editors in, the Mail were one of the papers who changed the way they operated, while the Mirror / NOTW just carried on and hence when phone hacking hit, the Mail weren't implicated.
Interesting that now alleged they have more recently gone down that path of the tabloids worst behaviour.
Someone thought it was worth stabbing 4 people for a bike on Bishopsgate during this mornings rush hour. But if you listen to @MayorofLondon you’d think climate change is London’s number one issue at the moment
"The good news is, it's not a terror attack. And another piece of good news is the three victims of the stabbing are not in life-threatening situations, thank God. But it's just a reminder of the dangers of carrying the knife." - Sadiq Khan
They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Also, hard to fix as changing leader may not resolve the issue.
War with Russia would fix it. Then once the strategic nukes started flying - which would be within about a week, max - there'd be no country left and survivors wouldn't be answering pollsters or voting. There's practically no opposition on the pro-Zelensky foreign policy.
The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump. Practically every property I see flying the blue and yellow right now is also flying the Butcher's Apron. We've got all Trump and no Hillary Clinton. What a wonderful time to be alive...
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
That is fair enough.
I have a DB pension but decided to change to paying in to a SIPP going forward. This is because I worked out that there is a high risk that the DB pension will never see the light of day, as it will be subject to the type of interference suggested above at some point in the next 20-30 years. A lot of people stay in jobs for there for their whole careers because they are relying on the pension materialising but it is not a safe assumption, particularly in the public sector.
I think the next government or the one after will realise the DB pensions in the state and private sector are just not affordable so either people who have them work longer or take a living standards cut. The WASPI issue has set enough of a precedent to give the state cover to make it work. The future of the nation rests on a politicians being brave enough and voters under 60 giving them enough protection at the ballot box to allow implementation.
Yes, yes, never link to Guido etc, but I do like this sort of meaningless trivia. My name was briefly very popular in the 80s for no reason I can discern, but before dropping back out of fashion.
This morning the ONS 2021 baby names data was published. Guido’s been enjoying the annual tradition of seeing whether any politicians have inspired parents so much as to influence their birth certificate decisions. The main bad news comes for Sir Keir, whose name is now facing extinction levels. In 2019, there were 15 baby Keirs; in 2020 that fell to nine; in 2021, a year into his leadership of The Labour Party, that figure now stands at just six – a 60% drop. Will Labour’s poll lead this year do anything to improve the only statistic dropping quicker than the pound?
Meanwhile, Boris managed to cling onto popularity, with the number of babies named after the then-PM sticking to its 2019 figure of 39 – the 815th most popular boys’ name out of over 4,600. Rishi’s numbers, improved by forcing everyone to stay at home for three months while paying their wages, are remarkable. They leaped by 77% between 2019 and 2020, and now hold steady at 41 uses in 2021. It seems many Britons, if not Tory members, were #Ready4Rishi…
The conservative mps need to agree a single candidate and throw Truss out
I can't see that helping. I don't think they can coalesce around a single candidate and even if they did wouldn't the clamour for an election become unbearable? How many times can you change leader and claim a mandate? I think either they limp on with Truss in office but not in power, hoping something turns up, or we are heading towards a general election before next summer.
I think they'll limp on (although 'limp' probably isn't quite the right word, as it doesn't capture the ferocity of the civil war and blame-mongering which will accompany the doleful spectacle). I just don't see any mechanism for them to do otherwise, or any political possibility of them agreeing on anything other than being miserable about the situation. At best Liz Truss might try to bring back some of the saner ex-ministers to attempt to limit the damage, but the trouble is that the saner ex-ministers are completely hated by the loons who seem to be her remaining supporters.
The conservative mps need to agree a single candidate and throw Truss out
I can't see that helping. I don't think they can coalesce around a single candidate and even if they did wouldn't the clamour for an election become unbearable? How many times can you change leader and claim a mandate? I think either they limp on with Truss in office but not in power, hoping something turns up, or we are heading towards a general election before next summer.
The only remedy for them not being able to agree on a candidate is time. As the weeks march on and things become more and more desperate, it will start to strike home to more and more of them that they need to act.
Of course by then the damage may already have been done.
There is however a problem with locating a compromise candidate as you say. The Boris-ites won’t want Rishi, the ERG won’t want May, a large chunk of the party don’t want Boris, and Wallace doesn’t want the job.
Someone thought it was worth stabbing 4 people for a bike on Bishopsgate during this mornings rush hour. But if you listen to @MayorofLondon you’d think climate change is London’s number one issue at the moment
"The good news is, it's not a terror attack. And another piece of good news is the three victims of the stabbing are not in life-threatening situations, thank God. But it's just a reminder of the dangers of carrying the knife." - Sadiq Khan
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Wow.
That's a pretty serious set of allegations. If subsequent investigation bears them out, then one might expect some individuals are likely to see the inside of a jail.
They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Also, hard to fix as changing leader may not resolve the issue.
War with Russia would fix it. Then once the strategic nukes started flying - which would be within about a week, max - there'd be no country left and survivors wouldn't be answering pollsters or voting. There's practically no opposition on the pro-Zelensky foreign policy.
The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump. Practically every property I see flying the blue and yellow right now is also flying the Butcher's Apron. We've got all Trump and no Hillary Clinton. What a wonderful time to be alive...
Thank you Dynamo for that considered opinion. Guessing you haven't been mobilised yet then?
Is Elon Musk heading for financial trouble due to the war in Ukraine or something?
@KyivPost The @elonmusk situation is clearly getting out of hand, and it seems like pride and vanity play a behemoth role in his attempt to pose as an expert on #Ukraine.
Just stop, Elon. It's ok to admit that you overdid smth. Just stop.
------
@elonmusk replying to @KyivPost I’m a big fan of Ukraine, but not of WW3
What proportion of Twitter users are actually sitting in a windowless office in St Peterburg? Russia's defeat could seriously dent Twitter's user numbers.
They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Also, hard to fix as changing leader may not resolve the issue.
War with Russia would fix it. Then once the strategic nukes started flying - which would be within about a week, max - there'd be no country left and survivors wouldn't be answering pollsters or voting. There's practically no opposition on the pro-Zelensky foreign policy.
The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump. Practically every property I see flying the blue and yellow right now is also flying the Butcher's Apron. We've got all Trump and no Hillary Clinton. What a wonderful time to be alive...
Finding the pro-imperialist vote is really fucking hard these days. Or haven’t you noticed?
Had a fun one, yesterday - the local Corbynite chap with a table in the street. Palestine etc. He also had a poster up about the evils of slavery. And one about Begum.
He was spitting angry when I pointed out that Begum was, by her own words, a slaver.
They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Also, hard to fix as changing leader may not resolve the issue.
War with Russia would fix it. Then once the strategic nukes started flying - which would be within about a week, max - there'd be no country left and survivors wouldn't be answering pollsters or voting. There's practically no opposition on the pro-Zelensky foreign policy.
The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump. Practically every property I see flying the blue and yellow right now is also flying the Butcher's Apron. We've got all Trump and no Hillary Clinton. What a wonderful time to be alive...
We haven't even got a Joe Biden. Could you imagine Sir Keir Starmer telling Liz Truss she's the worst f*cking PM in British history? He wouldn't have the guts.
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Wow.
That's a pretty serious set of allegations. If subsequent investigation bears them out, then one might expect some individuals are likely to see the inside of a jail.
Listening devices in people’s homes is a big deal, as is the use of corrupt police officers to obtain sensitive information.
If they can prove the links to the Mail for any of it, then surely prosecutions must follow?
The conservative mps need to agree a single candidate and throw Truss out
I can't see that helping. I don't think they can coalesce around a single candidate and even if they did wouldn't the clamour for an election become unbearable? How many times can you change leader and claim a mandate? I think either they limp on with Truss in office but not in power, hoping something turns up, or we are heading towards a general election before next summer.
How long does someone like Truss limp on in office but not power? Not til 2024. So lay the 2024 or later GE as you win either way around and can get some lovely odds.
Yes, yes, never link to Guido etc, but I do like this sort of meaningless trivia. My name was briefly very popular in the 80s for no reason I can discern, but before dropping back out of fashion.
This morning the ONS 2021 baby names data was published. Guido’s been enjoying the annual tradition of seeing whether any politicians have inspired parents so much as to influence their birth certificate decisions. The main bad news comes for Sir Keir, whose name is now facing extinction levels. In 2019, there were 15 baby Keirs; in 2020 that fell to nine; in 2021, a year into his leadership of The Labour Party, that figure now stands at just six – a 60% drop. Will Labour’s poll lead this year do anything to improve the only statistic dropping quicker than the pound?
Meanwhile, Boris managed to cling onto popularity, with the number of babies named after the then-PM sticking to its 2019 figure of 39 – the 815th most popular boys’ name out of over 4,600. Rishi’s numbers, improved by forcing everyone to stay at home for three months while paying their wages, are remarkable. They leaped by 77% between 2019 and 2020, and now hold steady at 41 uses in 2021. It seems many Britons, if not Tory members, were #Ready4Rishi…
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Interesting that if we look back all the way back to Operation Motorman, Mirror / NOTW / Mail were all up to naughty stuff (well all the papers were including the holy than thou ones, but those 3 pumped lots of money into it). However, after the plod called all the editors in, the Mail were one of the papers who changed the way they operated, while the Mirror / NOTW just carried on and hence when phone hacking hit, the Mail weren't implicated.
Interesting that now alleged they have more recently gone down that path of the tabloids worst behaviour.
All of that was standard operating procedure in Fleet Street - they seemed to take the view that being the Fourth Estate put them above the law. To the point that nearly anything went for an investigation. On Guardian hack was proud of using the phone “hack” - it didn’t seem to occur to him that the target wasn’t the issue, but the overall legality.
One reason the phone hacking thing faded away was that too many people were coming into the frame - the police selling background checks to private detectives and phone hacking and email interception was extremely common, in and out of the press. I have knowledge of a case involving a sports club - a paranoid nutter who hired a private eye to dig on everyone on the committee, then tried blackmailing people. The stuff he got access to for a few hundred pounds was staggering.
They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Also, hard to fix as changing leader may not resolve the issue.
War with Russia would fix it. Then once the strategic nukes started flying - which would be within about a week, max - there'd be no country left and survivors wouldn't be answering pollsters or voting. There's practically no opposition on the pro-Zelensky foreign policy.
The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump. Practically every property I see flying the blue and yellow right now is also flying the Butcher's Apron. We've got all Trump and no Hillary Clinton. What a wonderful time to be alive...
Putin's such a pussy we don't have to go to war with him, we just lol while Ukraine kicks his arse. His missiles don't work and he doesn't have the balls to put them to the test.
Winter Is Coming. Winter clothing is not. So raise your posting game or you'll be freezing to death in a t shirt in donetsk oblast.
If backbench Tory MPs foment a rebellion to avoid the extinction of the Tory Party, isn't there a risk that they'll be confused with Extinction Rebellion?
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Interesting that if we look back all the way back to Operation Motorman, Mirror / NOTW / Mail were all up to naughty stuff (well all the papers were including the holy than thou ones, but those 3 pumped lots of money into it). However, after the plod called all the editors in, the Mail were one of the papers who changed the way they operated, while the Mirror / NOTW just carried on and hence when phone hacking hit, the Mail weren't implicated.
Interesting that now alleged they have more recently gone down that path of the tabloids worst behaviour.
All of that was standard operating procedure in Fleet Street - they seemed to take the view that being the Fourth Estate put them above the law. To the point that nearly anything went for an investigation. On Guardian hack was proud of using the phone “hack” - it didn’t seem to occur to him that the target wasn’t the issue, but the overall legality.
One reason the phone hacking thing faded away was that too many people were coming into the frame - the police selling background checks to private detectives and phone hacking and email interception was extremely common, in and out of the press. I have knowledge of a case involving a sports club - a paranoid nutter who hired a private eye to dig on everyone on the committee, then tried blackmailing people. The stuff he got access to for a few hundred pounds was staggering.
It was only the Independent that even really looked into this a tiny bit. The rest were obsessed by which z-list celeb had their voice mail listened to, when there appeared to pretty good evidence that a lot worse had been going on both with the papers but also private entities.
I think the 1922 committee have the right to alter the rules and if they felt they had enough support, they could either (a) suspend or abolish the right of party members to have the final say, or (b) require a very high number of MPs to nominate someone in order for them to go through to the first round (or alternatively to the final round).
Someone thought it was worth stabbing 4 people for a bike on Bishopsgate during this mornings rush hour. But if you listen to @MayorofLondon you’d think climate change is London’s number one issue at the moment
"The good news is, it's not a terror attack. And another piece of good news is the three victims of the stabbing are not in life-threatening situations, thank God. But it's just a reminder of the dangers of carrying the knife." - Sadiq Khan
Err, there was only one person carrying a knife, Mr Khan, and that was the bike thief.
When the crime moves from the gangland areas and the tourist areas, to the City, he’s got a big problem on his hands.
Well its was very dangerous for the thief, without the knife the mob might have detained him or worse still inflicted some pain.
The crime was within a couple of hundred yards of Bishopsgate police station, and blanketed with cctv. Such is our broken justice system that no-one cares.
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
The conservative mps need to agree a single candidate and throw Truss out
Which would be Rishi Sunak.
Could it possibly be (I don't particularly favour this theory - just asking - but then again the man in question does have a lot of resources) that Sunak staged all this? Let's say he is fully aware that given a choice between a white candidate and a non-white one the retired Powellites who make up the membership will always pick the white one. So who would he want to replace Johnson, as his own transitional person? Truss or Mordaunt? Well Truss of course! Watch her self-destruct as the biggest pile of cretinous insanity that has ever graced Number 10. Then sail in through the front door by acclamation.
They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Also, hard to fix as changing leader may not resolve the issue.
War with Russia would fix it. Then once the strategic nukes started flying - which would be within about a week, max - there'd be no country left and survivors wouldn't be answering pollsters or voting. There's practically no opposition on the pro-Zelensky foreign policy.
The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump. Practically every property I see flying the blue and yellow right now is also flying the Butcher's Apron. We've got all Trump and no Hillary Clinton. What a wonderful time to be alive...
We haven't even got a Joe Biden. Could you imagine Sir Keir Starmer telling Liz Truss she's the worst f*cking PM in British history? He wouldn't have the guts.
The extinction of the Daily Mail seems very unlikely. It did happen to the News of the World, but that was probably a relatively small part of News International compared with the Mail's role at Associated Newspapers.
But does anyone know by what right the Mail has the Royal coat of arms on its masthead? Can anyone do that or will they have been given permission at some stage in the recesses of history? If the latter, can such permission be revoked?
I think the 1922 committee have the right to alter the rules and if they felt they had enough support, they could either (a) suspend or abolish the right of party members to have the final say, or (b) require a very high number of MPs to nominate someone in order for them to go through to the first round (or alternatively to the final round).
(a) definitely not possible and I don't think they can alter the 15% rule either. Their power extends to the nuts and bolts of the election not to substance. Think of them as returning officers.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Holy moly. Aside from just 'what the hell?!' - I wonder if this was under Dacre, Greig or Verity.
The extinction of the Daily Mail seems very unlikely. It did happen to the News of the World, but that was probably a relatively small part of News International compared with the Mail's role at Associated Newspapers.
But does anyone know by what right the Mail has the Royal coat of arms on its masthead? Can anyone do that or will they have been given permission at some stage in the recesses of history? If the latter, can such permission be revoked?
I like that suggestion so much Pancakes, I could toss you 🤭
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
Lol, she was merely an accountant trying to find savings to ensure the pension fund stayed afloat (hint, she proposed cuts to rail investment because that was the only area that wasn't "protected") but she did say there were a huge number of people retiring at >70% and loads at 80% and the actuaries were saying NR would be bankrupt in 20 years without huge government intervention or cuts elsewhere.
Multiply this to the nation at large and loads of big businesses across the country.
I cannot take seriously any genuine comment which uses the term Butcher's Apron in an effort to be edgy.
On the flying of flags, so few people fly them anyway (as opposed to somewhere like the USA) that it is probably hard to draw any conclusions from it.
He has picked it up on here not realising it is a Scoticism. See also the superfluous wonderful in the final sentence - needs to work on his idioms.
Isn't it on the contrary a political expression, like Whig? Also a Jacobite one, in this case from Cumberland's atrocities post-Culloden in 1746. Perhaps stemming from this cartoon.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Wow.
That's a pretty serious set of allegations. If subsequent investigation bears them out, then one might expect some individuals are likely to see the inside of a jail.
The only defence we have is that most of us are not important enough for anyone to bother.
I think the 1922 committee have the right to alter the rules and if they felt they had enough support, they could either (a) suspend or abolish the right of party members to have the final say, or (b) require a very high number of MPs to nominate someone in order for them to go through to the first round (or alternatively to the final round).
(a) definitely not possible and I don't think they can alter the 15% rule either. Their power extends to the nuts and bolts of the election not to substance. Think of them as returning officers.
Out of interest how would the Tory leadership voting system be changed? Who needs to approve any changes?
They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Also, hard to fix as changing leader may not resolve the issue.
War with Russia would fix it. Then once the strategic nukes started flying - which would be within about a week, max - there'd be no country left and survivors wouldn't be answering pollsters or voting. There's practically no opposition on the pro-Zelensky foreign policy.
The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump. Practically every property I see flying the blue and yellow right now is also flying the Butcher's Apron. We've got all Trump and no Hillary Clinton. What a wonderful time to be alive...
"The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump."
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
Lol, she was merely an accountant trying to find savings to ensure the pension fund stayed afloat (hint, she proposed cuts to rail investment because that was the only area that wasn't "protected") but she did say there were a huge number of people retiring at >70% and loads at 80% and the actuaries were saying NR would be bankrupt in 20 years without huge government intervention or cuts elsewhere.
Multiply this to the nation at large and loads of big businesses across the country.
Network Rail is fairly unique in being a "private" company with a DB pension. Most disappeared 15+ years ago except where they were required due to their relationship with the public sector
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
Lol, she was merely an accountant trying to find savings to ensure the pension fund stayed afloat (hint, she proposed cuts to rail investment because that was the only area that wasn't "protected") but she did say there were a huge number of people retiring at >70% and loads at 80% and the actuaries were saying NR would be bankrupt in 20 years without huge government intervention or cuts elsewhere.
Multiply this to the nation at large and loads of big businesses across the country.
Stdill doesn't meet the sniff test, given the hard work and safety issues involved which woiuld tend to prevent the extension of retirement age. I wonder if actual salary with overtime is being used to work out pension entitlement but for accountants' purposes it hs expressed in basic salary?
I think the 1922 committee have the right to alter the rules and if they felt they had enough support, they could either (a) suspend or abolish the right of party members to have the final say, or (b) require a very high number of MPs to nominate someone in order for them to go through to the first round (or alternatively to the final round).
(a) definitely not possible and I don't think they can alter the 15% rule either. Their power extends to the nuts and bolts of the election not to substance. Think of them as returning officers.
Out of interest how would the Tory leadership voting system be changed? Who needs to approve any changes?
The conservative mps need to agree a single candidate and throw Truss out
Which would be Rishi Sunak.
Could it possibly be (I don't particularly favour this theory - just asking - but then again the man in question does have a lot of resources) that Sunak staged all this? Let's say he is fully aware that given a choice between a white candidate and a non-white one the retired Powellites who make up the membership will always pick the white one. So who would he want to replace Johnson, as his own transitional person? Truss or Mordaunt? Well Truss of course! Watch her self-destruct as the biggest pile of cretinous insanity that has ever graced Number 10. Then sail in through the front door by acclamation.
No. That is silly, and would work just as well if Mordaunt had won. More believably, if Truss had withdrawn at the last minute, as Leadsom did against May, then some would be asking how big a cheque Sunak had written her.
The conservative mps need to agree a single candidate and throw Truss out
Which would be Rishi Sunak.
Could it possibly be (I don't particularly favour this theory - just asking - but then again the man in question does have a lot of resources) that Sunak staged all this? Let's say he is fully aware that given a choice between a white candidate and a non-white one the retired Powellites who make up the membership will always pick the white one. So who would he want to replace Johnson, as his own transitional person? Truss or Mordaunt? Well Truss of course! Watch her self-destruct as the biggest pile of cretinous insanity that has ever graced Number 10. Then sail in through the front door by acclamation.
Sunak can't be leader now he has been rejected by the membership without civil war in the party.
As I said before the only viable replacement for Truss before the next general election is Wallace, with maybe Sunak as Chancellor
@Sandpit Thank you for your kind comment on the last thread. Will report back. As you can see I have reached an age where I can no longer scare the willies out of myself by my own strength and agility (skiing, catamaran sailing) so I am relying on the mechanised forms (Pitts Special, single seater racing car, etc).
I fancy a go on one of the ex Americas cup catamarans, but I can't see how it is possible. I'm guessing you can't get a crew together for a joy ride and even if you could it would cost a fortune to hire them. I seem to remember Top Gear did a race against one in New Zealand. Envious.
Any other suggestions for scaring myself. I don't like heights, but I'm ok if enclosed (hence can ski and pitts special and gliders)
Someone thought it was worth stabbing 4 people for a bike on Bishopsgate during this mornings rush hour. But if you listen to @MayorofLondon you’d think climate change is London’s number one issue at the moment
"The good news is, it's not a terror attack. And another piece of good news is the three victims of the stabbing are not in life-threatening situations, thank God. But it's just a reminder of the dangers of carrying the knife." - Sadiq Khan
I cannot take seriously any genuine comment which uses the term Butcher's Apron in an effort to be edgy.
On the flying of flags, so few people fly them anyway (as opposed to somewhere like the USA) that it is probably hard to draw any conclusions from it.
He has picked it up on here not realising it is a Scoticism. See also the superfluous wonderful in the final sentence - needs to work on his idioms.
Isn't it on the contrary a political expression, like Whig? Also a Jacobite one, in this case from Cumberland's atrocities post-Culloden in 1746. Perhaps stemming from this cartoon.
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include: 1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes 2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place 3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information 4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception 5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Crumbs. Those are some serious (alleged) crimes. Which require jail time.
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
Lol, she was merely an accountant trying to find savings to ensure the pension fund stayed afloat (hint, she proposed cuts to rail investment because that was the only area that wasn't "protected") but she did say there were a huge number of people retiring at >70% and loads at 80% and the actuaries were saying NR would be bankrupt in 20 years without huge government intervention or cuts elsewhere.
Multiply this to the nation at large and loads of big businesses across the country.
Network Rail is fairly unique in being a "private" company with a DB pension. Most disappeared 15+ years ago except where they were required due to their relationship with the public sector
The schemes were closed to new entrants, yes, but there remain millions of people currently receiving or about to receive DB pensions and they are largely funded out of today's tax or business revenue and the problem will only get worse for the next 30-40 years before it improves and DB pension holders die off. However, before then we will be facing national bankruptcy to pay for it. It is completely untenable and Labour or the Tories need to take steps which, as I said, will leave a lot of people feeling hard done by, but then so were the WASPI women.
DB pensions should never have been offered but the mistake was made and now it needs a course correction.
Cutting that DB pension liability would cut bond rates for the state and private sectors overnight.
They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Also, hard to fix as changing leader may not resolve the issue.
War with Russia would fix it. Then once the strategic nukes started flying - which would be within about a week, max - there'd be no country left and survivors wouldn't be answering pollsters or voting. There's practically no opposition on the pro-Zelensky foreign policy.
The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump. Practically every property I see flying the blue and yellow right now is also flying the Butcher's Apron. We've got all Trump and no Hillary Clinton. What a wonderful time to be alive...
"The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump."
They are truly dreadful figures. These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored. Happened to Major and Brown.
Also, hard to fix as changing leader may not resolve the issue.
War with Russia would fix it. Then once the strategic nukes started flying - which would be within about a week, max - there'd be no country left and survivors wouldn't be answering pollsters or voting. There's practically no opposition on the pro-Zelensky foreign policy.
The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump. Practically every property I see flying the blue and yellow right now is also flying the Butcher's Apron. We've got all Trump and no Hillary Clinton. What a wonderful time to be alive...
"The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump."
Total pigshit, from another one of Putin's pimps.
Trumpets are usually Putin fans over Ukraine, complete with “Hunter Bidens laptop” memes and all the other shite
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
Why would closing DB pensions schemes be a priority for the next government?
And on what basis could the government legitimately force the conversion of "existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes"?
For private companies it's entirely a matter for them. For public companies, well yes, HMG might decide it needs to close DB schemes for new entrants and stop the further accrual of DB rights but they cannot simply steal away the rights already accrued.
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
Lol, she was merely an accountant trying to find savings to ensure the pension fund stayed afloat (hint, she proposed cuts to rail investment because that was the only area that wasn't "protected") but she did say there were a huge number of people retiring at >70% and loads at 80% and the actuaries were saying NR would be bankrupt in 20 years without huge government intervention or cuts elsewhere.
Multiply this to the nation at large and loads of big businesses across the country.
Stdill doesn't meet the sniff test, given the hard work and safety issues involved which woiuld tend to prevent the extension of retirement age. I wonder if actual salary with overtime is being used to work out pension entitlement but for accountants' purposes it hs expressed in basic salary?
That could be it, also NR is hugely bureaucratic so a big proportion of the workers won't be doing manual labour.
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
Lol, she was merely an accountant trying to find savings to ensure the pension fund stayed afloat (hint, she proposed cuts to rail investment because that was the only area that wasn't "protected") but she did say there were a huge number of people retiring at >70% and loads at 80% and the actuaries were saying NR would be bankrupt in 20 years without huge government intervention or cuts elsewhere.
Multiply this to the nation at large and loads of big businesses across the country.
Network Rail is fairly unique in being a "private" company with a DB pension. Most disappeared 15+ years ago except where they were required due to their relationship with the public sector
The schemes were closed to new entrants, yes, but there remain millions of people currently receiving or about to receive DB pensions and they are largely funded out of today's tax or business revenue and the problem will only get worse for the next 30-40 years before it improves and DB pension holders die off. However, before then we will be facing national bankruptcy to pay for it. It is completely untenable and Labour or the Tories need to take steps which, as I said, will leave a lot of people feeling hard done by, but then so were the WASPI women.
DB pensions should never have been offered but the mistake was made and now it needs a course correction.
Cutting that DB pension liability would cut bond rates for the state and private sectors overnight.
Outstanding DB pension liabilities are the UK equivalent of zombie companies that crowd out new productive investment.
I cannot take seriously any genuine comment which uses the term Butcher's Apron in an effort to be edgy.
On the flying of flags, so few people fly them anyway (as opposed to somewhere like the USA) that it is probably hard to draw any conclusions from it.
He has picked it up on here not realising it is a Scoticism. See also the superfluous wonderful in the final sentence - needs to work on his idioms.
Isn't it on the contrary a political expression, like Whig? Also a Jacobite one, in this case from Cumberland's atrocities post-Culloden in 1746. Perhaps stemming from this cartoon.
Always assumed the butcher was Cumberland and therefore the expression Scottish.
Only in the sense that the immediate victims were. But, like Culloden itself, it reflects the much wider Hanoverian/Jacobite split, which was present not only in Scotland but in the UK and Ireland. Very many Scots would never have used the term, that's for sure. So it's not a specifrically Scottish vs UK thing in its origins. (Plenty of non-Scots were killed by Cumberland's armies, too.)
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
Why would closing DB pensions schemes be a priority for the next government?
And on what basis could the government legitimately force the conversion of "existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes"?
For private companies it's entirely a matter for them. For public companies, well yes, HMG might decide it needs to close DB schemes for new entrants and stop the further accrual of DB rights but they cannot simply steal away the rights already accrued.
Because DB pensions are bankrupting the nation. It's an absolutely gigantic liability no one is willing to face up to yet it looms large over the economy.
I think the 1922 committee have the right to alter the rules and if they felt they had enough support, they could either (a) suspend or abolish the right of party members to have the final say, or (b) require a very high number of MPs to nominate someone in order for them to go through to the first round (or alternatively to the final round).
(a) definitely not possible and I don't think they can alter the 15% rule either. Their power extends to the nuts and bolts of the election not to substance. Think of them as returning officers.
d they could choose to increase it further in later rounds. So what would stop them picking a much higher figure?
Secondly, if the committee doesn't have the power either to set a very high threshold or to suspend the membership vote entirely, who does? Would Tory MPs as a whole have the power to adopt a rule change (by what majority?) or would another body within the party have to do so? Either way it is at least conceivable that sufficient support for changing the rules could develop.
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
Lol, she was merely an accountant trying to find savings to ensure the pension fund stayed afloat (hint, she proposed cuts to rail investment because that was the only area that wasn't "protected") but she did say there were a huge number of people retiring at >70% and loads at 80% and the actuaries were saying NR would be bankrupt in 20 years without huge government intervention or cuts elsewhere.
Multiply this to the nation at large and loads of big businesses across the country.
Network Rail is fairly unique in being a "private" company with a DB pension. Most disappeared 15+ years ago except where they were required due to their relationship with the public sector
The schemes were closed to new entrants, yes, but there remain millions of people currently receiving or about to receive DB pensions and they are largely funded out of today's tax or business revenue and the problem will only get worse for the next 30-40 years before it improves and DB pension holders die off. However, before then we will be facing national bankruptcy to pay for it. It is completely untenable and Labour or the Tories need to take steps which, as I said, will leave a lot of people feeling hard done by, but then so were the WASPI women.
DB pensions should never have been offered but the mistake was made and now it needs a course correction.
Cutting that DB pension liability would cut bond rates for the state and private sectors overnight.
Outstanding DB pension liabilities are the UK equivalent of zombie companies that crowd out new productive investment.
Yup, and if this government is actually "pro growth" and stands against the "anti growth coalition" then it needs to be taking on these kinds of issues. It isn't, because it doesn't care about growth, only the continuation of shovelling more money to old people for votes.
I think whoever wins the next election will have to grasp the nettle of DB pensions. It will be unpopular among those who believe they "have worked hard all their lives" but then again we can't bankrupt the nation to pander to a small group of already pretty well of people. Just as the WASPI women felt hard done by because a historical wrong was righted, DB pensioners will also feel hard done by because the government and industry made promises they couldn't keep 40 years ago on retirement income.
The next party in power will need to close all DB pension schemes and come up with a fairish formula for converting existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes. Though I have no idea how that works in practice given that DB schemes are non-contributory.
Simply, neither the state nor private industry can afford to pay retirees 50-80% of their final salary until the day they die along with everything else and for industry continuing to invest in the business.
Ultimately, we need a government who is willing to tell 60+ people that things are going to be a lot more difficult and they'll need to work to 70+ if they want to keep their existing lifestyle because the nation can't afford to fund it.
What DB pensions are paying 80% of final salary?! And how many DB pensions are there still left? Surely most DB schemes have already closed and switched to DC.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
My sister was juggling the costs of one briefly at Network Rail that paid up to 80% of final salary so they are definitely out there, I think that one is still open too.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
That NR pension - it seems to be the usual 1/60 x year served x annual salary. She must be working for 48 years and/or paying in extra and/or deferring.
Why would closing DB pensions schemes be a priority for the next government?
And on what basis could the government legitimately force the conversion of "existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes"?
For private companies it's entirely a matter for them. For public companies, well yes, HMG might decide it needs to close DB schemes for new entrants and stop the further accrual of DB rights but they cannot simply steal away the rights already accrued.
Because DB pensions are bankrupting the nation. It's an absolutely gigantic liability no one is willing to face up to yet it looms large over the economy.
British Airways now has more retired pilots than active pilots on its books. It’s basically a pension scheme that flies planes around.
Comments
What happens now?
These things tend to take on a momentum of their own. All bad news is the government's fault (and there'll be plenty of it). Good news ignored.
Happened to Major and Brown.
https://twitter.com/BBCDanielS/status/1578050430650748928
Hamlins LLP said the "unlawful acts alleged to have taken place include:
1) The hiring of private investigators to secretly place listening devices inside people’s cars and homes
2) The commissioning of individuals to surreptitiously listen into and record people’s live, private telephone calls whilst they were taking place
3) The payment of police officials, with corrupt links to private investigators, for inside, sensitive information
4) The impersonation of individuals to obtain medical information from private hospitals, clinics, and treatment centres by deception
5) The accessing of bank accounts, credit histories and financial transactions through illicit means and manipulation.
Which require jail time.
https://twitter.com/DDDaughters/status/1578022800836939776?s=20&t=iTxC0ZgdDvxQmMv61D08xg
"The good news is, it's not a terror attack. And another piece of good news is the three victims of the stabbing are not in life-threatening situations, thank God. But it's just a reminder of the dangers of carrying the knife." - Sadiq Khan
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/06/bishopsgate-incident-multiple-people-injured-suspected-stabbing/
They're pretty screwed. Not about damage limitation and hoping the public shown uncharacteristic gratitude if the economy picks up, despite the horrendous winter we're about to experience.
Daily Mail
Mail on Sunday
Mail online
I think either they limp on with Truss in office but not in power, hoping something turns up, or we are heading towards a general election before next summer.
That's a pretty serious set of allegations. If subsequent investigation bears them out, then one might expect some individuals are likely to see the inside of a jail.
Interesting that now alleged they have more recently gone down that path of the tabloids worst behaviour.
When the crime moves from the gangland areas and the tourist areas, to the City, he’s got a big problem on his hands.
The kind of person who flies the Ukrainian flag from their house is the type who would have voted for Trump. Practically every property I see flying the blue and yellow right now is also flying the Butcher's Apron. We've got all Trump and no Hillary Clinton. What a wonderful time to be alive...
It only takes a handful of nutters to nominate a fellow nutter, and they might well win with the party at large.
Westminster Voting Intention (5 Oct.):
Labour 52% (–)
Conservative 24% (–)
Liberal Democrat 10% (–)
Green 5% (–)
SNP 4% (-1)
Reform UK 3% (–)
Other 1% (–)
Changes +/- 2 Oct.
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1578052464024162304?s=20&t=nuwHsNZUEohnPYag9NRzrA
This morning the ONS 2021 baby names data was published. Guido’s been enjoying the annual tradition of seeing whether any politicians have inspired parents so much as to influence their birth certificate decisions. The main bad news comes for Sir Keir, whose name is now facing extinction levels. In 2019, there were 15 baby Keirs; in 2020 that fell to nine; in 2021, a year into his leadership of The Labour Party, that figure now stands at just six – a 60% drop. Will Labour’s poll lead this year do anything to improve the only statistic dropping quicker than the pound?
Meanwhile, Boris managed to cling onto popularity, with the number of babies named after the then-PM sticking to its 2019 figure of 39 – the 815th most popular boys’ name out of over 4,600. Rishi’s numbers, improved by forcing everyone to stay at home for three months while paying their wages, are remarkable. They leaped by 77% between 2019 and 2020, and now hold steady at 41 uses in 2021. It seems many Britons, if not Tory members, were #Ready4Rishi…
https://order-order.com/2022/10/06/keir-facing-extinction/
Of course by then the damage may already have been done.
There is however a problem with locating a compromise candidate as you say. The Boris-ites won’t want Rishi, the ERG won’t want May, a large chunk of the party don’t want Boris, and Wallace doesn’t want the job.
Someone will have to compromise somewhere.
Pensions are an issue, but shouldn't we talk about raising the pension age first?
Safest place in the building.
Had a fun one, yesterday - the local Corbynite chap with a table in the street. Palestine etc. He also had a poster up about the evils of slavery. And one about Begum.
He was spitting angry when I pointed out that Begum was, by her own words, a slaver.
I believe I may have even coined kamikwasi or kamiwazi? before you, but I can never figure out how search works on PB.
It's not about closing the schemes, although that is also necessary, it's restating the existing ones that are due to pay out after 2030 (which gives people time to plan) into DC and all of them to DC by 2040. Existing recipients will have to take a hit.
Macron is a friend 🧅 ❤️
If they can prove the links to the Mail for any of it, then surely prosecutions must follow?
Rod “swing back” Crosby would be running the numbers. But I think it is 90% a Labour majority now.
On the flying of flags, so few people fly them anyway (as opposed to somewhere like the USA) that it is probably hard to draw any conclusions from it.
It’s a complete cancer on British public life, is run by sociopaths, and owned by tax dodgers.
If you see a Ukraine flag, it’s safe to go and borrow some sugar.
If you see a “Let’s Go Brandon” placard, avoid like the plague.
One reason the phone hacking thing faded away was that too many people were coming into the frame - the police selling background checks to private detectives and phone hacking and email interception was extremely common, in and out of the press. I have knowledge of a case involving a sports club - a paranoid nutter who hired a private eye to dig on everyone on the committee, then tried blackmailing people. The stuff he got access to for a few hundred pounds was staggering.
Winter Is Coming. Winter clothing is not. So raise your posting game or you'll be freezing to death in a t shirt in donetsk oblast.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let's_Go_Brandon
https://www.mynrpension.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/NR-Pensions-Key-Features-April-2021.pdf
Could it possibly be (I don't particularly favour this theory - just asking - but then again the man in question does have a lot of resources) that Sunak staged all this? Let's say he is fully aware that given a choice between a white candidate and a non-white one the retired Powellites who make up the membership will always pick the white one. So who would he want to replace Johnson, as his own transitional person? Truss or Mordaunt? Well Truss of course! Watch her self-destruct as the biggest pile of cretinous insanity that has ever graced Number 10. Then sail in through the front door by acclamation.
But does anyone know by what right the Mail has the Royal coat of arms on its masthead? Can anyone do that or will they have been given permission at some stage in the recesses of history? If the latter, can such permission be revoked?
Multiply this to the nation at large and loads of big businesses across the country.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jacobite_broadside_-_Agreeable_Contrast.jpg
Total pigshit, from another one of Putin's pimps.
As I said before the only viable replacement for Truss before the next general election is Wallace, with maybe Sunak as Chancellor
I fancy a go on one of the ex Americas cup catamarans, but I can't see how it is possible. I'm guessing you can't get a crew together for a joy ride and even if you could it would cost a fortune to hire them. I seem to remember Top Gear did a race against one in New Zealand. Envious.
Any other suggestions for scaring myself. I don't like heights, but I'm ok if enclosed (hence can ski and pitts special and gliders)
DB pensions should never have been offered but the mistake was made and now it needs a course correction.
Cutting that DB pension liability would cut bond rates for the state and private sectors overnight.
And on what basis could the government legitimately force the conversion of "existing DB pensions to DC based on the asset levels within those DB pension schemes"?
For private companies it's entirely a matter for them. For public companies, well yes, HMG might decide it needs to close DB schemes for new entrants and stop the further accrual of DB rights but they cannot simply steal away the rights already accrued.
d they could choose to increase it further in later rounds. So what would stop them picking a much higher figure?
Secondly, if the committee doesn't have the power either to set a very high threshold or to suspend the membership vote entirely, who does? Would Tory MPs as a whole have the power to adopt a rule change (by what majority?) or would another body within the party have to do so? Either way it is at least conceivable that sufficient support for changing the rules could develop.