But what did state TV's mammoth Sunday night news shows have to say about it?..
The press seem to be a little less evasive.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1576823713252757505 In today’s Russian papers: * “The surrender of Lyman becomes a political problem.” * Mobilisation “has rocked the boat of political stability.” * The world “on the edge of a [nuclear] catastrophe.”
I see from tonight's thread that you scratch the surface of the appeaser types, and it turns out to be deep seated anti-Americanism behind it. Still smarting from the loss of global superpower status by the British Empire a century ago. All the blame can go to British politicians standing up for the freedom of Europe. Not, say, the fact that millions of Africans and Indians resented living under authoritarian government where they didn't get to choose who runs them.
And of course, just like United Russia scum, the only way they can justify this immoral empire is by pretending democracy is no better. Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians aren't able to be free democracies like the Brits. We are either Russian puppets or American puppets.
"Free democracy like the Brits", Mr WillG??? Nothing of the kind..... Starting with our broken voting system...
Why is it 'broken' ? What guiding principles would you start with to choose a 'better' system?
He equates the principle of “democracy” with the voting mechanism that gives his favoured party the best shot at power.
Not a thoughtful person
You haven't addressed any of the thoughtful arguments he just made. The same critique is more fairly applied to you.
Because it was written before I saw his more detailed post… I have many talents but the ability to answer a post before reading it is not one of them
Chaos at the English-Scottish border this morning as those convoys of millionaire Jocks moving to England for the benign tax regime u-turn when they realise it’s a complete waste of time.
So Truss and Kwarteng have made the necessary u turn and dumped the cut in the 45p top rate which was polititically toxic at the moment. Also calms the markets and sterling has risen
As Ian King on Sky business has just said this measures has not had an effect on the market or the pound which remains at 1.1186 and Bloomberg has just said their credit has not been restored in the market
They have successfully moved the debate on from giving tax cuts to rich people.
The debate is now who thought of it, who approved it, who reversed it, who gets the blame for it, and how many more times will it still bite them in the ass
So Truss and Kwarteng have made the necessary u turn and dumped the cut in the 45p top rate which was polititically toxic at the moment. Also calms the markets and sterling has risen
As Ian King on Sky business has just said this measures has not had an effect on the market or the pound which remains at 1.1186 and Bloomberg has just said their credit has not been restored in the market
The app on my phone gives much the same information. The only significant strengthening is against the Thai Baht!
I see from tonight's thread that you scratch the surface of the appeaser types, and it turns out to be deep seated anti-Americanism behind it. Still smarting from the loss of global superpower status by the British Empire a century ago. All the blame can go to British politicians standing up for the freedom of Europe. Not, say, the fact that millions of Africans and Indians resented living under authoritarian government where they didn't get to choose who runs them.
And of course, just like United Russia scum, the only way they can justify this immoral empire is by pretending democracy is no better. Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians aren't able to be free democracies like the Brits. We are either Russian puppets or American puppets.
"Free democracy like the Brits", Mr WillG??? Nothing of the kind..... Starting with our broken voting system...
Why is it 'broken' ? What guiding principles would you start with to choose a 'better' system?
One where every vote counts. And where we end up with a government - not necessarily of just one party - which reflects the wishes of the people.
So no minority governments, and no safe seats.
You are making the mistake of viewing the UK as one demos whereas it is many.
London has different priorities to Cornwall or Yorkshire, for example.
With our current system each local community gets to vote for their representative who then has an equal say alongside the other communities.
Which would still happen in larger multi member constituencies with STV - except that the voice of those outside the winning national plurality (likely to be only 40% of those voting under FPTP) would be far better represented.
I see from tonight's thread that you scratch the surface of the appeaser types, and it turns out to be deep seated anti-Americanism behind it. Still smarting from the loss of global superpower status by the British Empire a century ago. All the blame can go to British politicians standing up for the freedom of Europe. Not, say, the fact that millions of Africans and Indians resented living under authoritarian government where they didn't get to choose who runs them.
And of course, just like United Russia scum, the only way they can justify this immoral empire is by pretending democracy is no better. Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians aren't able to be free democracies like the Brits. We are either Russian puppets or American puppets.
"Free democracy like the Brits", Mr WillG??? Nothing of the kind..... Starting with our broken voting system...
Why is it 'broken' ? What guiding principles would you start with to choose a 'better' system?
He equates the principle of “democracy” with the voting mechanism that gives his favoured party the best shot at power.
Not a thoughtful person
You haven't addressed any of the thoughtful arguments he just made. The same critique is more fairly applied to you.
Because it was written before I saw his more detailed post… I have many talents but the ability to answer a post before reading it is not one of them
Then perhaps hold back on the ad hominems until you're sure they're deserved ?
I'll admit to having been made to look silly in just the same way myself.
The 45p tax change was just £2bn of the £45bn package. If £43bn of tax cuts go through having reversed on the £2bn then that is 95% of the package. And since they're not focused on the £2bn anymore, since its been reversed, it makes sense to be focused on the remaining £43bn.
I see from tonight's thread that you scratch the surface of the appeaser types, and it turns out to be deep seated anti-Americanism behind it. Still smarting from the loss of global superpower status by the British Empire a century ago. All the blame can go to British politicians standing up for the freedom of Europe. Not, say, the fact that millions of Africans and Indians resented living under authoritarian government where they didn't get to choose who runs them.
And of course, just like United Russia scum, the only way they can justify this immoral empire is by pretending democracy is no better. Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians aren't able to be free democracies like the Brits. We are either Russian puppets or American puppets.
"Free democracy like the Brits", Mr WillG??? Nothing of the kind..... Starting with our broken voting system...
Why is it 'broken' ? What guiding principles would you start with to choose a 'better' system?
One where every vote counts. And where we end up with a government - not necessarily of just one party - which reflects the wishes of the people.
So no minority governments, and no safe seats.
Why 'no safe seats' ? How do you achieve that whilst still reflecting the wishes of the (local) people?
Here are some of my thoughts on this: *) I want a system where we vote for individuals, not parties. *) I want to vote on manifestos, not post-election backroom deals. *) I want to reduce, not increase, the power of parties. (*) *) I want a voting system where votes are accountable and transparent, yet also protects the individual's vote. *) I would like (but won't get) a system that allows governments to look more than one electoral cycle ahead.
(*) IMO this is *really* important in a democracy. Powerful parties are one of the steps on the road towards bad government, or even non-democracy.
I see from tonight's thread that you scratch the surface of the appeaser types, and it turns out to be deep seated anti-Americanism behind it. Still smarting from the loss of global superpower status by the British Empire a century ago. All the blame can go to British politicians standing up for the freedom of Europe. Not, say, the fact that millions of Africans and Indians resented living under authoritarian government where they didn't get to choose who runs them.
And of course, just like United Russia scum, the only way they can justify this immoral empire is by pretending democracy is no better. Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians aren't able to be free democracies like the Brits. We are either Russian puppets or American puppets.
"Free democracy like the Brits", Mr WillG??? Nothing of the kind..... Starting with our broken voting system...
Why is it 'broken' ? What guiding principles would you start with to choose a 'better' system?
One where every vote counts. And where we end up with a government - not necessarily of just one party - which reflects the wishes of the people.
So no minority governments, and no safe seats.
You are making the mistake of viewing the UK as one demos whereas it is many.
London has different priorities to Cornwall or Yorkshire, for example.
With our current system each local community gets to vote for their representative who then has an equal say alongside the other communities.
Currently, Cornwall has six MPs all of them from the ruling Conservative Party. Does this state of things represent the views of Cornwall as a whole?
I wouldn’t have the votes at county level but at community level. I used counties as an example of different interests
Chaos at the English-Scottish border this morning as those convoys of millionaire Jocks moving to England for the benign tax regime u-turn when they realise it’s a complete waste of time.
You keep using this word “jock”. WTF does it mean?
Kwarteng says it is not “parliamentary games” that led to the u-turn but it is quite clear MPs were saying to No10&11 that they would not vote for it and telling them to change course https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1576834794645692416
Well quite, it turns out that the markets hate the energy and NI policies that both parties agree on.
Today's u turn means that on the 19% rate, the NI change, and the 2 year cap both conservative and labour are in the same place, following Reeves confirmation yesterday they support the 2 year cap
Tory insiders claim that it was, in fact, Treasury chief sec Chris Philp who had the idea to cut the 45p tax rate, presenting Truss and Kwarteng with a paper on it during leadership campaign. https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1576819652902400000
They're going to throw him under the bus, aren't they, in an unedifying attempt to save their worthless selves.
But that doesn't work. If they had any sense they would have told him it was politically tin-eared, economically suicidal and therefore a total non-starter.
Yes. I wouldn't criticize someone for having ideas. We need those. But a grown up politician shouldn't have had to think about this one too long. Nobody forced them to run with it.
Kwarteng tells BBC "it is a complete distortion" to characterise budget as something that caused mortgages to go up over 900 pounds A YEAR. On this he maybe probably correct, as many I spoke to last week said their mortgages were up hundreds of pounds A MONTH after his budget https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1576835087756193792
I see from tonight's thread that you scratch the surface of the appeaser types, and it turns out to be deep seated anti-Americanism behind it. Still smarting from the loss of global superpower status by the British Empire a century ago. All the blame can go to British politicians standing up for the freedom of Europe. Not, say, the fact that millions of Africans and Indians resented living under authoritarian government where they didn't get to choose who runs them.
And of course, just like United Russia scum, the only way they can justify this immoral empire is by pretending democracy is no better. Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians aren't able to be free democracies like the Brits. We are either Russian puppets or American puppets.
"Free democracy like the Brits", Mr WillG??? Nothing of the kind..... Starting with our broken voting system...
Why is it 'broken' ? What guiding principles would you start with to choose a 'better' system?
He equates the principle of “democracy” with the voting mechanism that gives his favoured party the best shot at power.
Not a thoughtful person
You haven't addressed any of the thoughtful arguments he just made. The same critique is more fairly applied to you.
Because it was written before I saw his more detailed post… I have many talents but the ability to answer a post before reading it is not one of them
Then perhaps hold back on the ad hominems until you're sure they're deserved ?
I'll admit to having been made to look silly in just the same way myself.
It’s just about the only thing that @ClippP posts on. Also it was a disagreement not an ad hominem. He was making a fundamental error by equating two separate things
The 45p tax change was just £2bn of the £45bn package. If £43bn of tax cuts go through having reversed on the £2bn then that is 95% of the package. And since they're not focused on the £2bn anymore, since its been reversed, it makes sense to be focused on the remaining £43bn.
The numbers make sense there.
What LizT and Kwasi need to focus on is not the remaining tax cuts but by precisely what mechanism they lead to growth. That's what the markets (and the people) need to see.
Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Chris Philp refuses to provide details on who suggested the tax cut, stating that he wouldn't share "private conversations" but says he "would not describe it as his idea".
I see from tonight's thread that you scratch the surface of the appeaser types, and it turns out to be deep seated anti-Americanism behind it. Still smarting from the loss of global superpower status by the British Empire a century ago. All the blame can go to British politicians standing up for the freedom of Europe. Not, say, the fact that millions of Africans and Indians resented living under authoritarian government where they didn't get to choose who runs them.
And of course, just like United Russia scum, the only way they can justify this immoral empire is by pretending democracy is no better. Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians aren't able to be free democracies like the Brits. We are either Russian puppets or American puppets.
"Free democracy like the Brits", Mr WillG??? Nothing of the kind..... Starting with our broken voting system...
Why is it 'broken' ? What guiding principles would you start with to choose a 'better' system?
He equates the principle of “democracy” with the voting mechanism that gives his favoured party the best shot at power. Not a thoughtful person
But if I, as an elector, have a wide choice of electable candidates with a variety of different values and proposals, I no longer need a party, do I, Mr Waters? At best, a party is an approximation to what I want to see. I am not necessarily equally in favour of all the parts of the party package.
Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Chris Philp refuses to provide details on who suggested the tax cut, stating that he wouldn't share "private conversations" but says he "would not describe it as his idea".
I'll bet he wouldn't. Look to the Taxpayers Alliance or one of those other think tanks advising this government or, possibly, one of those hedge fund friends of Kwasi.
It really doesn't matter who proposed it - other than give us the endlessly amusing spectacle of watching them all turn on each other. They were all too stupid to realise what a bad idea it was at this time.
The symbolism of this defeat extends far beyond the narrow 45p issue.
Truss/Kwarteng can no longer propose radical libertarian reform and assume they a majority for it.
In office but not in power.
It seems conservative mps have demonstrated that they are able to exercise the power to remove Kwarteng/ Truss, and Truss will be removed in 2023 unless she can turn things round
Chaos at the English-Scottish border this morning as those convoys of millionaire Jocks moving to England for the benign tax regime u-turn when they realise it’s a complete waste of time.
You keep using this word “jock”. WTF does it mean?
Uh oh, the language police have been triggered again.
Kwarteng like Truss: incapable of anything but the most banal copy-and-paste political sloganeering: 'What I'm focusing on' etc etc. No intellectual presence in the conversation at all. https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1576836990242549761
Government U-turns would be less humiliating if the comms line the day before wasn't always some variation of, "our policy is obviously correct and anyone who doesn't see that is a remoaner cuck declinist probably working for Putin, or worse, Macron." https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1576837178369658882
This hasn't shifted the UK corporate bond and gilt markets, as I understand it. This is only 2 billion out of a 45 billion package, as Bartholomew says.
Now there'll have to be more changes of policy on the back of this one..
The 45p tax change was just £2bn of the £45bn package. If £43bn of tax cuts go through having reversed on the £2bn then that is 95% of the package. And since they're not focused on the £2bn anymore, since its been reversed, it makes sense to be focused on the remaining £43bn.
The numbers make sense there.
What LizT and Kwasi need to focus on is not the remaining tax cuts but by precisely what mechanism they lead to growth. That's what the markets (and the people) need to see.
They best junk the Corporation Tax cuts then - because we have 12 years of recent history that demonstrates it doesn't generate investment - it encourages short term profiteering at the cost of medium term let alone long term viability.
I'm sorry but I see nothing in the mini budget or subsequent gossip (because things like cutting HS2 hasn't been announced yet) that says they understand how to grow the economy.
And if they are going to bin HS2 they may as well write off the Home County seats it runs through. If they aren't even going to complete it the pain really isn't worth it..
Chaos at the English-Scottish border this morning as those convoys of millionaire Jocks moving to England for the benign tax regime u-turn when they realise it’s a complete waste of time.
You keep using this word “jock”. WTF does it mean?
A search indicates that it is many things, but apparently in British English is sometimes refers to a Scotsman, and that sometimes this is offensive.
I wonder if any PBers can give empirical evidence of this strange use and/or its power to offend?
"Jock in British English (dʒɒk IPA Pronunciation Guide) NOUN sometimes offensive a slang word or term of address for a Scot"
Still not voting for this bunch of c-words. Zero humility.
It could be a good time to consider joining the conservative party though. The likes of Gove and Sunak aren't going to be back in high office until the membership want it. Who actually gains by the Conservative party going in to a death spiral? FPTP ensures that a new party will get nowhere. Starmer is a great leader but any faith in the labour party is deeply misguided. Look at the 'Corbyn' generation of MP's that mostly fill out its backbenches.
So Truss and Kwarteng have made the necessary u turn and dumped the cut in the 45p top rate which was polititically toxic at the moment. Also calms the markets and sterling has risen
As Ian King on Sky business has just said this measures has not had an effect on the market or the pound which remains at 1.1186 and Bloomberg has just said their credit has not been restored in the market
Still not voting for this bunch of c-words. Zero humility.
It could be a good time to consider joining the conservative party though. The likes of Gove and Sunak aren't going to be back in high office until the membership want it. Who actually gains by the Conservative party going in to a death spiral? FPTP ensures that a new party will get nowhere. Starmer is a great leader but any faith in the labour party is deeply misguided. Look at the 'Corbyn' generation of MP's that mostly fill out its backbenches.
Is it just me, or was the policy originally conceived as a political move to signal distance from previous administrations and has now been ditched today to avoid further bad headlines at conference.
They talk long term strategy, but this is all short term politics.
Still not voting for this bunch of c-words. Zero humility.
KK used the word ‘proud’ this morning. He is remarkably arrogant.
He got a bit cross, didn't he.
Anyway it doesn't matter. He's a dead man walking. Truss's departure will be slower and more carefully timed, but there is no way the Tories can go into the next election with these two up front and centre stage.
Still not voting for this bunch of c-words. Zero humility.
KK used the word ‘proud’ this morning. He is remarkably arrogant.
He got a bit cross, didn't he.
Anyway it doesn't matter. He's a dead man walking. Truss's departure will be slower and more carefully timed, but there is no way the Tories can go into the next election with these two up front and centre stage.
So Truss and Kwarteng have made the necessary u turn and dumped the cut in the 45p top rate which was polititically toxic at the moment. Also calms the markets and sterling has risen
As Ian King on Sky business has just said this measures has not had an effect on the market or the pound which remains at 1.1186 and Bloomberg has just said their credit has not been restored in the market
Well quite, it turns out that the markets hate the energy and NI policies that both parties agree on.
Today's u turn means that on the 19% rate, the NI change, and the 2 year cap both conservative and labour are in the same place, following Reeves confirmation yesterday they support the 2 year cap
Not on ending the bankers' bonus cap however nor on the corporation tax cut
I see from tonight's thread that you scratch the surface of the appeaser types, and it turns out to be deep seated anti-Americanism behind it. Still smarting from the loss of global superpower status by the British Empire a century ago. All the blame can go to British politicians standing up for the freedom of Europe. Not, say, the fact that millions of Africans and Indians resented living under authoritarian government where they didn't get to choose who runs them.
And of course, just like United Russia scum, the only way they can justify this immoral empire is by pretending democracy is no better. Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians aren't able to be free democracies like the Brits. We are either Russian puppets or American puppets.
"Free democracy like the Brits", Mr WillG??? Nothing of the kind..... Starting with our broken voting system...
Why is it 'broken' ? What guiding principles would you start with to choose a 'better' system?
One where every vote counts. And where we end up with a government - not necessarily of just one party - which reflects the wishes of the people.
So no minority governments, and no safe seats.
You are making the mistake of viewing the UK as one demos whereas it is many.
London has different priorities to Cornwall or Yorkshire, for example.
With our current system each local community gets to vote for their representative who then has an equal say alongside the other communities.
Which would still happen in larger multi member constituencies with STV - except that the voice of those outside the winning national plurality (likely to be only 40% of those voting under FPTP) would be far better represented.
That’s the system I first proposed in the 90s…
And the Liberal Government was pushing through Parliament over a hundred years ago, when everything was interrupted by the Great War.
Still not voting for this bunch of c-words. Zero humility.
KK used the word ‘proud’ this morning. He is remarkably arrogant.
He got a bit cross, didn't he.
Anyway it doesn't matter. He's a dead man walking. Truss's departure will be slower and more carefully timed, but there is no way the Tories can go into the next election with these two up front and centre stage.
Hence rejoining the party, the current Tory party membership is completely out of touch with reality. Hopefully I can go to some events and tell them they're all grasping, selfish and out of touch.
I see from tonight's thread that you scratch the surface of the appeaser types, and it turns out to be deep seated anti-Americanism behind it. Still smarting from the loss of global superpower status by the British Empire a century ago. All the blame can go to British politicians standing up for the freedom of Europe. Not, say, the fact that millions of Africans and Indians resented living under authoritarian government where they didn't get to choose who runs them.
And of course, just like United Russia scum, the only way they can justify this immoral empire is by pretending democracy is no better. Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians aren't able to be free democracies like the Brits. We are either Russian puppets or American puppets.
"Free democracy like the Brits", Mr WillG??? Nothing of the kind..... Starting with our broken voting system...
Why is it 'broken' ? What guiding principles would you start with to choose a 'better' system?
He equates the principle of “democracy” with the voting mechanism that gives his favoured party the best shot at power. Not a thoughtful person
But if I, as an elector, have a wide choice of electable candidates with a variety of different values and proposals, I no longer need a party, do I, Mr Waters? At best, a party is an approximation to what I want to see. I am not necessarily equally in favour of all the parts of the party package.
Which is why you elect a representative not a delegate. But parties are too powerful, I agree.
However PR pushes the decisions further away from the people and into the coalition building process
This will raise eyebrows at Buckingham Palace. Has @KwasiKwarteng forgotten that as Chancellor he is a royal trustee who, with the Prime Minister, actually sets the percentage of Crown Estate profits that are paid for the Sovereign Grant? https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1576830758018502657
They talk long term strategy, but this is all short term politics.
Both of which they are REALLY bad at
Because of the current probabilities the only importance of the Tory view is whether they can get us through to 2024 with a degree of damage limitation and without actually destroying the nation. The politically interesting question is Labour's long term costed strategy, and what IFS etc have to say about it.
Labour's position on this or that short term thing is tactics. It is their strategy and the instruments to implement the long term that matter.
Oh, I agree, and it's important not to turn them into holy grails. Like voting at an election: unless you're a party zealot, no one party will probably match everything you want. There will be some policies you love, and some you dislike. Ditto the people within.
There'll be things I dislike about *any* voting system; there will be compromises to the above (except for the sanctity of the actual voting process - I won't back down on that). It's a case of being adult and picking the bext compromise.
I'm not saying we do not have political parties; just that they should be given as little power as possible, whereas they always want to get more power.
I agree with much of what you say, and think you'd like the Swiss system which forces voters to take direct responsibility, one issue at a time. The parties are essentially advisory bodies.
That said, I think your perception of parties as monolithic forces detached from MPs and forcing them to act against their better judgment is exaggerated. Most MPs have been members of their parties for many years, not usually for career reasons but because they broadly agree with them. Of course there are times when MPs say to each other "Are we REALLY going ahead with this thing?" but most of the time there's a sense of common purpose and the party is voluntarily given the benefit of the doubt, so "giving parties less power" would make little difference. I make mostly pro-Labour posts here, with occasional criticisms, because it's what I think - nobody is pressing me to post.
It was much the same as an MP, except that when I had criticisms I'd get a discussion with the Minister an, usually, some tweaks to make the policy more acceptable - much as Gove & co have done over the 45p. I was only once directly pressured by a whip - "If you won't that way, you won't get any visits from senior Ministers at election time". I laughed, and made a point of voting the way I wanted. No repercussions followed and the Chief Whip (Hilary Armstrong) privately apologised.
It's more like a marriage. You sometimes squabble, and generally end up compromising or shrugging and getting over it. Occasionally it gets bad enough to make you split up. But it's misleading to say that one has the "power" over the other.
This hasn't shifted the UK corporate bond and gilt markets, as I understand it. This is only 2 billion out of 45 million package, as Bartholomew says.
Now there'll have to be more changes of policy, on the back of this one..
The extraordinary fact is that labour is now aligned with the conservatives on all the main measures including the 2 year cap
Labour isn't supporting a number of the others. We need a full breakdown on this, from one of our stats-expert posters.
Corporation tax reduction and bankers bonuses are the remaining divide
Corporation tax reduction has been bigged up as one of the "for the wealthy" features of the budget. Yet for those self-employed who are set up as companies, the reversal of the tax increase is a major boost (yes, I am one of them).
I see from tonight's thread that you scratch the surface of the appeaser types, and it turns out to be deep seated anti-Americanism behind it. Still smarting from the loss of global superpower status by the British Empire a century ago. All the blame can go to British politicians standing up for the freedom of Europe. Not, say, the fact that millions of Africans and Indians resented living under authoritarian government where they didn't get to choose who runs them.
And of course, just like United Russia scum, the only way they can justify this immoral empire is by pretending democracy is no better. Poles, Lithuanians, Ukrainians aren't able to be free democracies like the Brits. We are either Russian puppets or American puppets.
"Free democracy like the Brits", Mr WillG??? Nothing of the kind..... Starting with our broken voting system...
Why is it 'broken' ? What guiding principles would you start with to choose a 'better' system?
One where every vote counts. And where we end up with a government - not necessarily of just one party - which reflects the wishes of the people.
So no minority governments, and no safe seats.
You are making the mistake of viewing the UK as one demos whereas it is many.
London has different priorities to Cornwall or Yorkshire, for example.
With our current system each local community gets to vote for their representative who then has an equal say alongside the other communities.
Which would still happen in larger multi member constituencies with STV - except that the voice of those outside the winning national plurality (likely to be only 40% of those voting under FPTP) would be far better represented.
That’s the system I first proposed in the 90s…
And the Liberal Government was pushing through Parliament over a hundred years ago, when everything was interrupted by the Great War.
If the Liberals hadn’t merged with the SDP I would likely vote for them
Still not voting for this bunch of c-words. Zero humility.
KK used the word ‘proud’ this morning. He is remarkably arrogant.
He got a bit cross, didn't he.
Anyway it doesn't matter. He's a dead man walking. Truss's departure will be slower and more carefully timed, but there is no way the Tories can go into the next election with these two up front and centre stage.
Hence rejoining the party, the current Tory party membership is completely out of touch with reality. Hopefully I can go to some events and tell them they're all grasping, selfish and out of touch.
That's actually quite a tempting thought. I could join the local party and have the opportunity to call Michael Fabricant a stupid c*** to his face.
Kwarteng tells BBC "it is a complete distortion" to characterise budget as something that caused mortgages to go up over 900 pounds A YEAR. On this he maybe probably correct, as many I spoke to last week said their mortgages were up hundreds of pounds A MONTH after his budget https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1576835087756193792
Kwarteng like Truss: incapable of anything but the most banal copy-and-paste political sloganeering: 'What I'm focusing on' etc etc. No intellectual presence in the conversation at all. https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1576836990242549761
Just to note that KK used the word 'contrition' on R4 Today interview with NR. I doubt if this has yet been given proper weight. Normally politicians don't do that.
This hasn't shifted the UK corporate bond and gilt markets, as I understand it. This is only 2 billion out of 45 million package, as Bartholomew says.
Now there'll have to be more changes of policy, on the back of this one..
The extraordinary fact is that labour is now aligned with the conservatives on all the main measures including the 2 year cap
Labour isn't supporting a number of the others. We need a full breakdown on this, from one of our stats-expert posters.
Corporation tax reduction and bankers bonuses are the remaining divide
Corporation tax reduction has been bigged up as one of the "for the wealthy" features of the budget. Yet for those self-employed who are set up as companies, the reversal of the tax increase is a major boost (yes, I am one of them).
I think that shows you don't understand how the tapering worked for profits between £50,000 to £250,000....
If he wants to support small businesses a way better solution would be a low rate for profits less than £150,000 a year with a higher rate above that...
This hasn't shifted the UK corporate bond and gilt markets, as I understand it. This is only 2 billion out of 45 million package, as Bartholomew says.
Now there'll have to be more changes of policy, on the back of this one..
The extraordinary fact is that labour is now aligned with the conservatives on all the main measures including the 2 year cap
Labour isn't supporting a number of the others. We need a full breakdown on this, from one of our stats-expert posters.
Corporation tax reduction and bankers bonuses are the remaining divide
Corporation tax reduction has been bigged up as one of the "for the wealthy" features of the budget. Yet for those self-employed who are set up as companies, the reversal of the tax increase is a major boost (yes, I am one of them).
I shed no tears for tax rises on personal service scammers.
Comments
Truss/Kwarteng can no longer propose radical libertarian reform and assume they a majority for it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/1576823713252757505
In today’s Russian papers:
* “The surrender of Lyman becomes a political problem.”
* Mobilisation “has rocked the boat of political stability.”
* The world “on the edge of a [nuclear] catastrophe.”
He says: “I wouldn’t describe it as my idea, no. I did not produce a paper specifically on this measure. We discuss lots of ideas” 👀
https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1576831813284417536
https://twitter.com/davidyelland/status/1576710728433602560
😜
The debate is now who thought of it, who approved it, who reversed it, who gets the blame for it, and how many more times will it still bite them in the ass
I'll admit to having been made to look silly in just the same way myself.
The 45p tax change was just £2bn of the £45bn package. If £43bn of tax cuts go through having reversed on the £2bn then that is 95% of the package. And since they're not focused on the £2bn anymore, since its been reversed, it makes sense to be focused on the remaining £43bn.
The numbers make sense there.
Too tip Tories, you need to get rid of this guy. He’s politically deaf.
https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1576834828984385541
https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1576834794645692416
On this he maybe probably correct, as many I spoke to last week said their mortgages were up hundreds of pounds A MONTH after his budget
https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1576835087756193792
https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1576835395589136384
This interview is brutal. It's the sound of fucked, with crystal clarity in full HD.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1576835720358264833
Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Chris Philp refuses to provide details on who suggested the tax cut, stating that he wouldn't share "private conversations" but says he "would not describe it as his idea".
#KayBurley: https://trib.al/ecixuwi https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1576834685270999041/video/1
It really doesn't matter who proposed it - other than give us the endlessly amusing spectacle of watching them all turn on each other. They were all too stupid to realise what a bad idea it was at this time.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1576836990242549761
What is jarring (to use the Schapps word) is that this such a humbling moment for the government and the chancellor, and yet the tone of @KwasiKwarteng is pure arrogance
https://twitter.com/jonsopel/status/1576837342077194240
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/04e69744-4285-11ed-abc9-d0d53e948d21?shareToken=3896eafba0c847a9f627463883488943
Full cabinet wasn’t consulted when the original policy was adopted; wasn’t consulted when it was scrapped.
https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1576837571723685888
Has this Government's credibility reached an all time low?
How low can you go?!
https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1576837178369658882
Now there'll have to be more changes of policy on the back of this one..
I'm sorry but I see nothing in the mini budget or subsequent gossip (because things like cutting HS2 hasn't been announced yet) that says they understand how to grow the economy.
And if they are going to bin HS2 they may as well write off the Home County seats it runs through. If they aren't even going to complete it the pain really isn't worth it..
I wonder if any PBers can give empirical evidence of this strange use and/or its power to offend?
"Jock
in British English
(dʒɒk IPA Pronunciation Guide)
NOUN sometimes offensive
a slang word or term of address for a Scot"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market-data
They talk long term strategy, but this is all short term politics.
Anyway it doesn't matter. He's a dead man walking. Truss's departure will be slower and more carefully timed, but there is no way the Tories can go into the next election with these two up front and centre stage.
I wonder if the next thing they pick off is the chancellor...
This has hardly registered in the markets
Tory donors return to the fold after Kwasi Kwarteng’s mini-budget
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-donors-return-to-the-fold-after-kwasi-kwartengs-mini-budget-9mn6tz5zr (£££)
However PR pushes the decisions further away from the people and into the coalition building process
You'll be telling me next that a civil servant at the DfE is useless.
Labour's position on this or that short term thing is tactics. It is their strategy and the instruments to implement the long term that matter.
We may be in for a wait.
That said, I think your perception of parties as monolithic forces detached from MPs and forcing them to act against their better judgment is exaggerated. Most MPs have been members of their parties for many years, not usually for career reasons but because they broadly agree with them. Of course there are times when MPs say to each other "Are we REALLY going ahead with this thing?" but most of the time there's a sense of common purpose and the party is voluntarily given the benefit of the doubt, so "giving parties less power" would make little difference. I make mostly pro-Labour posts here, with occasional criticisms, because it's what I think - nobody is pressing me to post.
It was much the same as an MP, except that when I had criticisms I'd get a discussion with the Minister an, usually, some tweaks to make the policy more acceptable - much as Gove & co have done over the 45p. I was only once directly pressured by a whip - "If you won't that way, you won't get any visits from senior Ministers at election time". I laughed, and made a point of voting the way I wanted. No repercussions followed and the Chief Whip (Hilary Armstrong) privately apologised.
It's more like a marriage. You sometimes squabble, and generally end up compromising or shrugging and getting over it. Occasionally it gets bad enough to make you split up. But it's misleading to say that one has the "power" over the other.
And then do the same to Gavin Williamson.
Here are a few articles if you want to check that out.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/inflation-keeps-the-u-s-from-stepping-in-to-slow-dollars-rapid-rise-11664663619?st=jjx37mmmzehwznm&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-a-strong-dollar-means-for-the-rest-of-the-world-11658482200?st=a6khdj103evbbc3&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/business/economy/us-dollar-global-impact.html
https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1576712610895929344?s=20&t=QkMHs8xjc5KDTUzGEC0XHA
He was, of course, in general awful.
If he wants to support small businesses a way better solution would be a low rate for profits less than £150,000 a year with a higher rate above that...
Unfit for office.
Clueless.
An embarrassment to the nation.
https://twitter.com/business/status/1576587825109164033?s=21&t=AN7dhJbY6Vjc3kNTiOrjow
The Lady is for turning
The modesty of Cambridge educated historians is legendary. And historians in general are noted for our reserve, humility and lack of hubris.
- what spending cuts and supply side measures they intend
- precisely how these will lead to growth
- over what timetable and
- for whom.
We have had no clarity on the first and I am willing to bet that Truss and co., have no answers on the remaining 3.