The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
So you are happy with the "conservative" government wrecking the economy, but will still blame Labourt for the results.
If they do wreck the economy then they will be out of office for a long time
That was likely anyway. 13-14 years in power is a lot, and chances would be if losing at that point you'll be out for some time.
I concede that and it looks very likely they will lose office but 2 years is a long time so very likely but not a done deal for labour yet
It depends how you define 'favour'. Kwarteng is just giving a Clintonian answer.
A lie then. If the purpose is to deceive, it's a lie.
No, the purpose is to avoid having words put in his mouth.
You were the one who described it as Clintonian, not me. Clinton was evading the truth, giving a response he knew would mislead people as to what he could then claim to have meant, even though no one would define things in such a way normally.
If you are arguing Kwarteng was behaving in a similar way that's your choice.
Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder. Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?
This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.
Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are in second place, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to united Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
The tweeter in the image I posted is a recently retired SLab MSP. Doesn’t Starmer need to keep people like him on board?
No, Findlay is a hard left socialist who only got into Holyrood on the list
If Scottish Labour gleefully throw away the hard left socialist vote then they can forget 15-20 gains. No amount of SLD and SCon tactical votes can save them is they start haemorrhaging their core support.
Most of the hard left in Scotland went to the SNP or Greens or Tommy Sheridan long ago. Most SLab voters now are centrist or centre left Unionists
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
How many billions? Or are you just making stuff up?
They have promised investment in the NHS, Social Care, Education and now Defence that runs into billions
You are surely not suggesting they do not intend investing billions into these areas
On paper, so are the Tories. Take, for example, social care, and the 3% defence commitment.
My point is that you actually don’t have a clue about Labour spending plans, and your querulous nonsense about their having questions to answer just makes you look like a Tory stooge.
If you think labour should be given a free pass then that is naive and I will continue to pose questions that are relevant
I understand Labour paying attention to the 45p change but there is a danger in focusing on this too much. What they should really be pointing to is the fall in sterling, the rise in government borrowing and the absence of a medium term plan with figures from the OBR.
Not sure whether pre or post Special Financial Operation. 7000 asked.
Not much of a bounce for Ms Truss.
Annoying when they don’t show the other parties’ numbers so I can’t do LLG. The accompanying article is paywalled too.
But Comres are fairly Lab+ Green- and 45+33+presumably 5% for SNP only leaves 17% for the rest so implies something like LD 10%, Green 4%, Refuk 2% other 1%, thus LLG roughly 58-60%.
I understand Labour paying attention to the 45p change but there is a danger in focusing on this too much. What they should really be pointing to is the fall in sterling, the rise in government borrowing and the absence of a medium term plan with figures from the OBR.
I agree. The 45p thing is a distraction - it has been lower before, and I don't think people regard the current rate as as morally inviolable.
We would need ca. 12,000 individuals earning over £1m per year on PAYE to relocate here from overseas to generate more in absolute tax than this generates. I don't see it. If anything the removal of the financial sector bonus cap will achieve this within the existing pool of labour and everyone who would get the big bonus would have paid the additional 5% anyway.
It's still such a poor decision and the Tories will pay for it at the next election.
Tech is more important than finance in terms of securing a bigger share of global high-income PAYE jobs. I think you might be missing the wood for the trees.
Potentially, but those will require for the high value jobs to be created here, not for high net worth individuals to move here from overseas.
Unlocking business investment is a much bigger driver of tech job creation than cutting personal taxation.
The 5% additional rate cut doesn't achieve creation of high value tech jobs.
The rate cut combined with the depreciation in Sterling undoubtedly makes it a relatively more attractive place to hire people.
I remain to be convinced that the rate cut will drive any additional £150k+ jobs in tech. Sterling diving maybe, but that's an unintended consequence of their incompetence not something they wanted, I hope.
I don’t think anyone seriously believes the £150k rate cut will “drive more jobs”.
As you’ve pointed out in other posts, there are other measures that would be much more effective there.
No, this was conceived as a symbol of intent. Indeed, there’s evidence that Kwasi-Truss considered this some kind of “gotcha” policy to shock and awe.
Sadly the only shock was in the currency and gilt markets.
I have a thread idea on rentseeking and why it's destroying the UK economy and causing a break down of society but I haven't got the time of energy to write it. Sad.
I understand Labour paying attention to the 45p change but there is a danger in focusing on this too much. What they should really be pointing to is the fall in sterling, the rise in government borrowing and the absence of a medium term plan with figures from the OBR.
Actually politically labour are right to centre on the 45% change as it has handed them an enormous prize and the rest the public just do not understand and glaze over
George Osborne always made a point of saying that those with the broadest shoulders had to carry the heaviest load. He was right. I supported this through the removal of my personal allowances, the removal of my child benefit and the fiscal drag caused by bands not keeping with inflation, all at the time that a signifcant number of people were being taken out of tax altogether by the increase in personal allowances and the minimum wage was rising considerably faster than inflation.
This was modern, pragmatic, compassionate Conservatism and I had do problem with it. In contrast Kwarteng's budget is divisive, attacks the poor, rewards the rich and reduces the income available to government at a time when we are already spending far more than is being taken in tax and are promising to spend an absolute fortune on subsidising heating bills.
The contention is that this will boost growth. I will be delighted if I am wrong about this but I really don't see it. Cuts in tax for the much higher paid tend to improve the savings ratio (not a bad thing in itself) but do not have anything like the multiplier effects that additional income for those living hand to mouth do. We might attract back the odd banker from Dublin or Paris but not enough to make much of a difference. I do not think that CT rates are key to DFI, there is a long list of things that are more important. The investment zones seems a rebranding of the enterprise zones we have tried before with minimal success.
I really want the UK to succeed. I want our people to enjoy a more comfortable life. I want good, well funded, public services and I desperately want a private sector successful enough to fund them. I remain to be persuaded that this budget is the answer or even a step in the right direction. I very much hope that I am wrong.
Excellent post, David. But I’m afraid you’re giving them too much benefit of the doubt and getting hoodwinked by the distributional issue.
The thing that really matters is the fiscal trajectory from here. Truss and Kwarteng’s plan is more tax cuts, fairly soon, focused on those lower down the income scale.
Deficit be damned.
They’re totally wrecking the public finances. That’s their explicit plan.
Try to win the election, then they’ll start banging on about balancing the books by slashing the state.
It’s thoroughly dishonest and irresponsible government. If I were a Tory, this is the thing I’d be ashamed about.
Do the tories on this site support this plan? Because that’s what you’re going to be defending at the next election.
Wreck the public finances, needlessly indebt the next generation, attempt to win an election, slash the state. That is the agenda you are explicitly supporting when you pay your membership fee and you cast your vote.
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
How many billions? Or are you just making stuff up?
They have promised investment in the NHS, Social Care, Education and now Defence that runs into billions
You are surely not suggesting they do not intend investing billions into these areas
On paper, so are the Tories. Take, for example, social care, and the 3% defence commitment.
My point is that you actually don’t have a clue about Labour spending plans, and your querulous nonsense about their having questions to answer just makes you look like a Tory stooge.
If you think labour should be given a free pass then that is naive and I will continue to pose questions that are relevant
Only one party has, for example, prevented the OBR publishing an analysis of one of the biggest fiscal events in recent history.
I would gently suggest you wait for Labour to publish its plans in more detail before pearl clutching about their interest in better public services.
We would need ca. 12,000 individuals earning over £1m per year on PAYE to relocate here from overseas to generate more in absolute tax than this generates. I don't see it. If anything the removal of the financial sector bonus cap will achieve this within the existing pool of labour and everyone who would get the big bonus would have paid the additional 5% anyway.
It's still such a poor decision and the Tories will pay for it at the next election.
Tech is more important than finance in terms of securing a bigger share of global high-income PAYE jobs. I think you might be missing the wood for the trees.
Potentially, but those will require for the high value jobs to be created here, not for high net worth individuals to move here from overseas.
Unlocking business investment is a much bigger driver of tech job creation than cutting personal taxation.
The 5% additional rate cut doesn't achieve creation of high value tech jobs.
The rate cut combined with the depreciation in Sterling undoubtedly makes it a relatively more attractive place to hire people.
I remain to be convinced that the rate cut will drive any additional £150k+ jobs in tech. Sterling diving maybe, but that's an unintended consequence of their incompetence not something they wanted, I hope.
I don’t think anyone seriously believes the £150k rate cut will “drive more jobs”.
As you’ve pointed out in other posts, there are other measures that would be much more effective there.
No, this was conceived as a symbol of intent. Indeed, there’s evidence that Kwasi-Truss considered this some kind of “gotcha” policy to shock and awe.
Sadly the only shock was in the currency and gilt markets.
I have a thread idea on rentseeking and why it's destroying the UK economy and causing a break down of society but I haven't got the time of energy to write it. Sad.
George Osborne always made a point of saying that those with the broadest shoulders had to carry the heaviest load. He was right. I supported this through the removal of my personal allowances, the removal of my child benefit and the fiscal drag caused by bands not keeping with inflation, all at the time that a signifcant number of people were being taken out of tax altogether by the increase in personal allowances and the minimum wage was rising considerably faster than inflation.
This was modern, pragmatic, compassionate Conservatism and I had do problem with it. In contrast Kwarteng's budget is divisive, attacks the poor, rewards the rich and reduces the income available to government at a time when we are already spending far more than is being taken in tax and are promising to spend an absolute fortune on subsidising heating bills.
The contention is that this will boost growth. I will be delighted if I am wrong about this but I really don't see it. Cuts in tax for the much higher paid tend to improve the savings ratio (not a bad thing in itself) but do not have anything like the multiplier effects that additional income for those living hand to mouth do. We might attract back the odd banker from Dublin or Paris but not enough to make much of a difference. I do not think that CT rates are key to DFI, there is a long list of things that are more important. The investment zones seems a rebranding of the enterprise zones we have tried before with minimal success.
I really want the UK to succeed. I want our people to enjoy a more comfortable life. I want good, well funded, public services and I desperately want a private sector successful enough to fund them. I remain to be persuaded that this budget is the answer or even a step in the right direction. I very much hope that I am wrong.
Excellent post, David. But I’m afraid you’re giving them too much benefit of the doubt.
The thing that really matters is the fiscal trajectory from here. Truss and Kwarteng’s plan is more tax cuts, fairly soon, focused on those lower down the income scale.
Deficit be damned.
They’re totally wrecking the public finances. That’s their explicit plan.
Try to win the election, then they’ll start banging on about balancing the books by slashing the state.
It’s thoroughly dishonest and irresponsible government. If I were a Tory, this is the thing I’d be ashamed about.
Do the tories on this site support this plan? Because that’s what you’re going to be defending at the next election.
Wreck the public finances, needlessly indebt the next generation, attempt to win an election, slash the state. That is the agenda you are explicitly supporting when you pay your membership fee and you cast your vote.
Honestly dont think the oaps who are the tory core vote will care...
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
How many billions? Or are you just making stuff up?
They have promised investment in the NHS, Social Care, Education and now Defence that runs into billions
You are surely not suggesting they do not intend investing billions into these areas
On paper, so are the Tories. Take, for example, social care, and the 3% defence commitment.
My point is that you actually don’t have a clue about Labour spending plans, and your querulous nonsense about their having questions to answer just makes you look like a Tory stooge.
If you think labour should be given a free pass then that is naive and I will continue to pose questions that are relevant
If the Tories can pay for it by massive public debt, then why is it wrong for Labour to do the same?
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
So you are happy with the "conservative" government wrecking the economy, but will still blame Labourt for the results.
If they do wreck the economy then they will be out of office for a long time
Not necessarily.
If Johnson returns after a Truss disaster, prior to the next GE as a new broom and a safe pair of hands, the Conservatives will win.
The voters that matter seem to think that a new leader breaks continuity Conservative Governments.
Long lines of vehicles were seen at a border crossing between Mongolia and Russia on Sunday as people fled the Kremlin's call-up of hundreds of thousands of reservists for the war in Ukraine.
It's come to the point where the Russians are now more afraid of their own army than the Ukrainians are - to the extent that they're literally prepared to run away to Outer Mongolia to escape the draft. Though why the Mongolians would want to take in all that lot, Lord alone knows.
Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder. Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?
This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.
Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are in second place, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to united Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
The tweeter in the image I posted is a recently retired SLab MSP. Doesn’t Starmer need to keep people like him on board?
No, Findlay is a hard left socialist who only got into Holyrood on the list
If Scottish Labour gleefully throw away the hard left socialist vote then they can forget 15-20 gains. No amount of SLD and SCon tactical votes can save them is they start haemorrhaging their core support.
Most of the hard left in Scotland went to the SNP or Greens or Tommy Sheridan long ago. Most SLab voters now are centrist or centre left Unionists
PB Scotch expertise at its very best.
Given how many ScoTories only get in on the list, it's a bit unkind of HYUFD to complain about Mr Findlay.
George Osborne always made a point of saying that those with the broadest shoulders had to carry the heaviest load. He was right. I supported this through the removal of my personal allowances, the removal of my child benefit and the fiscal drag caused by bands not keeping with inflation, all at the time that a signifcant number of people were being taken out of tax altogether by the increase in personal allowances and the minimum wage was rising considerably faster than inflation.
This was modern, pragmatic, compassionate Conservatism and I had do problem with it. In contrast Kwarteng's budget is divisive, attacks the poor, rewards the rich and reduces the income available to government at a time when we are already spending far more than is being taken in tax and are promising to spend an absolute fortune on subsidising heating bills.
The contention is that this will boost growth. I will be delighted if I am wrong about this but I really don't see it. Cuts in tax for the much higher paid tend to improve the savings ratio (not a bad thing in itself) but do not have anything like the multiplier effects that additional income for those living hand to mouth do. We might attract back the odd banker from Dublin or Paris but not enough to make much of a difference. I do not think that CT rates are key to DFI, there is a long list of things that are more important. The investment zones seems a rebranding of the enterprise zones we have tried before with minimal success.
I really want the UK to succeed. I want our people to enjoy a more comfortable life. I want good, well funded, public services and I desperately want a private sector successful enough to fund them. I remain to be persuaded that this budget is the answer or even a step in the right direction. I very much hope that I am wrong.
Excellent post, David. But I’m afraid you’re giving them too much benefit of the doubt.
The thing that really matters is the fiscal trajectory from here. Truss and Kwarteng’s plan is more tax cuts, fairly soon, focused on those lower down the income scale.
Deficit be damned.
They’re totally wrecking the public finances. That’s their explicit plan.
Try to win the election, then they’ll start banging on about balancing the books by slashing the state.
It’s thoroughly dishonest and irresponsible government. If I were a Tory, this is the thing I’d be ashamed about.
Do the tories on this site support this plan? Because that’s what you’re going to be defending at the next election.
Wreck the public finances, needlessly indebt the next generation, attempt to win an election, slash the state. That is the agenda you are explicitly supporting when you pay your membership fee and you cast your vote.
Honestly dont think the oaps who are the tory core vote will care...
They may be the core, but by their own they are not sufficiently numerous.
Not sure whether pre or post Special Financial Operation. 7000 asked.
Not much of a bounce for Ms Truss.
Annoying when they don’t show the other parties’ numbers so I can’t do LLG. The accompanying article is paywalled too.
But Comres are fairly Lab+ Green- and 45+33+presumably 5% for SNP only leaves 17% for the rest so implies something like LD 10%, Green 4%, Refuk 2% other 1%, thus LLG roughly 58-60%.
Anyone have the full scores?
Trend is LLG is down quite a bit during the Truss uptick - LD and Green are down during this period aren’t they as Truss pulls supporters back from don’t know but strengthens Labour support at same time.
One of these 35% for Truss was a +5 on the previous poll, so -2 from last time is still +3 on that previous, so Truss honeymoon uptick still going on imo.
Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder. Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?
This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.
Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are in second place, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to united Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
The tweeter in the image I posted is a recently retired SLab MSP. Doesn’t Starmer need to keep people like him on board?
No, Findlay is a hard left socialist who only got into Holyrood on the list
If Scottish Labour gleefully throw away the hard left socialist vote then they can forget 15-20 gains. No amount of SLD and SCon tactical votes can save them is they start haemorrhaging their core support.
Most of the hard left in Scotland went to the SNP or Greens or Tommy Sheridan long ago. Most SLab voters now are centrist or centre left Unionists
PB Scotch expertise at its very best.
Given how many ScoTories only get in on the list, it's a bit unkind of HYUFD to complain about Mr Findlay.
Plenty also get in on the constituency vote too and the just 18% Scottish Labour got in 2019 under Corbyn and Leonard shows how badly they can do on a hard left agenda without any Scottish Conservative and LD tactical votes
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
So you are happy with the "conservative" government wrecking the economy, but will still blame Labourt for the results.
If they do wreck the economy then they will be out of office for a long time
Not necessarily.
If Johnson returns after a Truss disaster, prior to the next GE as a new broom and a safe pair of hands, the Conservatives will win.
The voters that matter seem to think that a new leader breaks continuity Conservative Governments.
You may very well be right.
The most depressing thing about this whole situation is that Labour is highly unlikely to learn the lessons of the past and weaponize electoral reform against the Conservative Party. All the latter therefore have to do is wait for a modest number of swing voters to get cheesed off, when the damage inflicted by this lot proves unamenable to resolution by quick fixes. Then we'll be back to yet another round of rapacious asset stripping and pocket lining for elderly homeowners and the stinking rich. And thus, the cycle of decline continues.
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
So you are happy with the "conservative" government wrecking the economy, but will still blame Labourt for the results.
If they do wreck the economy then they will be out of office for a long time
Not necessarily.
If Johnson returns after a Truss disaster, prior to the next GE as a new broom and a safe pair of hands, the Conservatives will win.
The voters that matter seem to think that a new leader breaks continuity Conservative Governments.
You may very well be right.
The most depressing thing about this whole situation is that Labour is highly unlikely to learn the lessons of the past and weaponize electoral reform against the Conservative Party. All the latter therefore have to do is wait for a modest number of swing voters to get cheesed off, when the damage inflicted by this lot proves unamenable to resolution by quick fixes. Then we'll be back to yet another round of rapacious asset stripping and pocket lining for elderly homeowners and the stinking rich. And thus, the cycle of decline continues.
Their decision not to back voting reform is leading them to look silly. It's just bad PR.
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
So you are happy with the "conservative" government wrecking the economy, but will still blame Labourt for the results.
If they do wreck the economy then they will be out of office for a long time
Not necessarily.
If Johnson returns after a Truss disaster, prior to the next GE as a new broom and a safe pair of hands, the Conservatives will win.
The voters that matter seem to think that a new leader breaks continuity Conservative Governments.
You may very well be right.
The most depressing thing about this whole situation is that Labour is highly unlikely to learn the lessons of the past and weaponize electoral reform against the Conservative Party. All the latter therefore have to do is wait for a modest number of swing voters to get cheesed off, when the damage inflicted by this lot proves unamenable to resolution by quick fixes. Then we'll be back to yet another round of rapacious asset stripping and pocket lining for elderly homeowners and the stinking rich. And thus, the cycle of decline continues.
Their decision not to back voting reform is leading them to look silly. It's just bad PR.
Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder. Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?
This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.
Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are in second place, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to united Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
The tweeter in the image I posted is a recently retired SLab MSP. Doesn’t Starmer need to keep people like him on board?
No, Findlay is a hard left socialist who only got into Holyrood on the list
If Scottish Labour gleefully throw away the hard left socialist vote then they can forget 15-20 gains. No amount of SLD and SCon tactical votes can save them is they start haemorrhaging their core support.
Most of the hard left in Scotland went to the SNP or Greens or Tommy Sheridan long ago. Most SLab voters now are centrist or centre left Unionists
PB Scotch expertise at its very best.
Given how many ScoTories only get in on the list, it's a bit unkind of HYUFD to complain about Mr Findlay.
Plenty also get in on the constituency vote too and the just 18% Scottish Labour got in 2019 under Corbyn and Leonard shows how badly they can do on a hard left agenda without any Scottish Conservative and LD tactical votes
"plenty" must be in HYUFDese as it's certainly not the meaning of a word in English used in this sentence.
5 Tory constituency MSPs, 26 list MSPs if I recall rightly. (ANd MPs don't count as we are talking about Holyrood, given your slur on Mr Findlay).
British Social Attitudes Survey: Almost four in 10 Labour voters back Scottish independence
Support for Scottish independence has risen among Labour voters and people living in England over the past decade, a major new survey has found.
The 39th annual British Social Attitudes (BSA) Survey sparked headlines last week as it recorded the highest level of support for independence north of the Border at 52% and an increase in support for Irish re-unification.
The latest survey shows that nearly four out of 10 – 38% – of Labour voters backed independence, while the proportion supporting devolution as the best way to govern had fallen to 53%. Eight per cent still thought Holyrood should not exist.
The views of Conservatives have changed little over that time, with 7% backing independence in 2010 compared to 5% in 2021. Support for devolution has risen slightly among Tories, from 63% to 69% – while one in four believe there should be no Scottish Parliament.
Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder. Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?
This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.
Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are in second place, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to united Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
The tweeter in the image I posted is a recently retired SLab MSP. Doesn’t Starmer need to keep people like him on board?
No, Findlay is a hard left socialist who only got into Holyrood on the list
If Scottish Labour gleefully throw away the hard left socialist vote then they can forget 15-20 gains. No amount of SLD and SCon tactical votes can save them is they start haemorrhaging their core support.
Most of the hard left in Scotland went to the SNP or Greens or Tommy Sheridan long ago. Most SLab voters now are centrist or centre left Unionists
PB Scotch expertise at its very best.
Tommy is Alba now isn’t he? I suspect a very teeny section of the ‘hard left’ will have migrated with him.
A ray of hope. If enough middle income mortgage payers are made to scream in agony then it might just be enough to persuade the country to vote out the current Government at long bloody last. For reasons previously described I fear that the exile of the Tories won't last very long, but giving them the heave-ho at least opens up the remote possibility that it might.
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
So you are happy with the "conservative" government wrecking the economy, but will still blame Labourt for the results.
If they do wreck the economy then they will be out of office for a long time
Not necessarily.
If Johnson returns after a Truss disaster, prior to the next GE as a new broom and a safe pair of hands, the Conservatives will win.
The voters that matter seem to think that a new leader breaks continuity Conservative Governments.
You may very well be right.
The most depressing thing about this whole situation is that Labour is highly unlikely to learn the lessons of the past and weaponize electoral reform against the Conservative Party. All the latter therefore have to do is wait for a modest number of swing voters to get cheesed off, when the damage inflicted by this lot proves unamenable to resolution by quick fixes. Then we'll be back to yet another round of rapacious asset stripping and pocket lining for elderly homeowners and the stinking rich. And thus, the cycle of decline continues.
Their decision not to back voting reform is leading them to look silly. It's just bad PR.
Reading what leon said about how accommodation now expensive in usa Looking at booking.com 1 night in manhattan mid oct Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night Los angeles mid october Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
A ray of hope. If enough middle income mortgage payers are made to scream in agony then it might just be enough to persuade the country to vote out the current Government at long bloody last. For reasons previously described I fear that the exile of the Tories won't last very long, but giving them the heave-ho at least opens up the remote possibility that it might.
How long the Tories remain out of power would depend on whether Labour implements election reform. I suspect it will be very high on the agenda following Liz's years....
Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder. Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?
This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.
Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are in second place, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to united Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
The tweeter in the image I posted is a recently retired SLab MSP. Doesn’t Starmer need to keep people like him on board?
No, Findlay is a hard left socialist who only got into Holyrood on the list
If Scottish Labour gleefully throw away the hard left socialist vote then they can forget 15-20 gains. No amount of SLD and SCon tactical votes can save them is they start haemorrhaging their core support.
Most of the hard left in Scotland went to the SNP or Greens or Tommy Sheridan long ago. Most SLab voters now are centrist or centre left Unionists
PB Scotch expertise at its very best.
Tommy is Alba now isn’t he? I suspect a very teeny section of the ‘hard left’ will have migrated with him.
Yes, HYUFD is just a wee bittie out of date there (you can't vote for Mr S IIRC as he's not standing for anything as far as I know).
British Social Attitudes Survey: Almost four in 10 Labour voters back Scottish independence
Support for Scottish independence has risen among Labour voters and people living in England over the past decade, a major new survey has found.
The 39th annual British Social Attitudes (BSA) Survey sparked headlines last week as it recorded the highest level of support for independence north of the Border at 52% and an increase in support for Irish re-unification.
The latest survey shows that nearly four out of 10 – 38% – of Labour voters backed independence, while the proportion supporting devolution as the best way to govern had fallen to 53%. Eight per cent still thought Holyrood should not exist.
The views of Conservatives have changed little over that time, with 7% backing independence in 2010 compared to 5% in 2021. Support for devolution has risen slightly among Tories, from 63% to 69% – while one in four believe there should be no Scottish Parliament.
So 62% of Scottish Labour voters still don't support independence then, well above the Scottish average. Without Unionist Scottish Labour votes and tactical votes from SCons and the LDs where they are the main opponent to the SNP, SLab has no chance of any further seats.
Ian Murray's success in Edinburgh South in beating the SNP with Unionist votes united behind him should be the SLab model.
Of course since the Queen's death support for independence has fallen anyway
Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder. Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?
This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.
Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are in second place, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to united Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
The tweeter in the image I posted is a recently retired SLab MSP. Doesn’t Starmer need to keep people like him on board?
No, Findlay is a hard left socialist who only got into Holyrood on the list
If Scottish Labour gleefully throw away the hard left socialist vote then they can forget 15-20 gains. No amount of SLD and SCon tactical votes can save them is they start haemorrhaging their core support.
Most of the hard left in Scotland went to the SNP or Greens or Tommy Sheridan long ago. Most SLab voters now are centrist or centre left Unionists
PB Scotch expertise at its very best.
Given how many ScoTories only get in on the list, it's a bit unkind of HYUFD to complain about Mr Findlay.
Plenty also get in on the constituency vote too and the just 18% Scottish Labour got in 2019 under Corbyn and Leonard shows how badly they can do on a hard left agenda without any Scottish Conservative and LD tactical votes
"plenty" must be in HYUFDese as it's certainly not the meaning of a word in English used in this sentence.
5 Tory constituency MSPs, 26 list MSPs if I recall rightly. (ANd MPs don't count as we are talking about Holyrood, given your slur on Mr Findlay).
So 5 more with constituency seats than Findlay then
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
So you are happy with the "conservative" government wrecking the economy, but will still blame Labourt for the results.
If they do wreck the economy then they will be out of office for a long time
Not necessarily.
If Johnson returns after a Truss disaster, prior to the next GE as a new broom and a safe pair of hands, the Conservatives will win.
The voters that matter seem to think that a new leader breaks continuity Conservative Governments.
You may very well be right.
The most depressing thing about this whole situation is that Labour is highly unlikely to learn the lessons of the past and weaponize electoral reform against the Conservative Party. All the latter therefore have to do is wait for a modest number of swing voters to get cheesed off, when the damage inflicted by this lot proves unamenable to resolution by quick fixes. Then we'll be back to yet another round of rapacious asset stripping and pocket lining for elderly homeowners and the stinking rich. And thus, the cycle of decline continues.
Their decision not to back voting reform is leading them to look silly. It's just bad PR.
Reading what leon said about how accommodation now expensive in usa Looking at booking.com 1 night in manhattan mid oct Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night Los angeles mid october Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
It’s not just the exchange rate, it’s a surge in wages for US hospitality staff, post Covid, as the bosses can’t find the workers
Americans themselves are bemoaning these appalling prices - another reason so many of them in Europe
Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder. Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?
This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.
Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are in second place, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to united Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
The tweeter in the image I posted is a recently retired SLab MSP. Doesn’t Starmer need to keep people like him on board?
No, Findlay is a hard left socialist who only got into Holyrood on the list
If Scottish Labour gleefully throw away the hard left socialist vote then they can forget 15-20 gains. No amount of SLD and SCon tactical votes can save them is they start haemorrhaging their core support.
Most of the hard left in Scotland went to the SNP or Greens or Tommy Sheridan long ago. Most SLab voters now are centrist or centre left Unionists
PB Scotch expertise at its very best.
Given how many ScoTories only get in on the list, it's a bit unkind of HYUFD to complain about Mr Findlay.
Plenty also get in on the constituency vote too and the just 18% Scottish Labour got in 2019 under Corbyn and Leonard shows how badly they can do on a hard left agenda without any Scottish Conservative and LD tactical votes
"plenty" must be in HYUFDese as it's certainly not the meaning of a word in English used in this sentence.
5 Tory constituency MSPs, 26 list MSPs if I recall rightly. (ANd MPs don't count as we are talking about Holyrood, given your slur on Mr Findlay).
So 5 more with constituency seats than Findlay then
He didn't stand in the last election. So your comparison is meaningless.
The point about those usa hotel prices is we are now becoming a relativeky poor country outside the se of england....the days when the average joe has a weekend in new york are coming to an end
British Social Attitudes Survey: Almost four in 10 Labour voters back Scottish independence
Support for Scottish independence has risen among Labour voters and people living in England over the past decade, a major new survey has found.
The 39th annual British Social Attitudes (BSA) Survey sparked headlines last week as it recorded the highest level of support for independence north of the Border at 52% and an increase in support for Irish re-unification.
The latest survey shows that nearly four out of 10 – 38% – of Labour voters backed independence, while the proportion supporting devolution as the best way to govern had fallen to 53%. Eight per cent still thought Holyrood should not exist.
The views of Conservatives have changed little over that time, with 7% backing independence in 2010 compared to 5% in 2021. Support for devolution has risen slightly among Tories, from 63% to 69% – while one in four believe there should be no Scottish Parliament.
So 62% of Scottish Labour voters still don't support independence then, well above the Scottish average. Without Unionist Scottish Labour votes and tactical votes from SCons and the LDs where they are the main opponent to the SNP, SLab has no chance of any further seats.
Ian Murray's success in Edinburgh South in beating the SNP with Unionist votes united behind him should be the SLab model.
Of course since the Queen's death support for independence has fallen anyway
We would need ca. 12,000 individuals earning over £1m per year on PAYE to relocate here from overseas to generate more in absolute tax than this generates. I don't see it. If anything the removal of the financial sector bonus cap will achieve this within the existing pool of labour and everyone who would get the big bonus would have paid the additional 5% anyway.
It's still such a poor decision and the Tories will pay for it at the next election.
Tech is more important than finance in terms of securing a bigger share of global high-income PAYE jobs. I think you might be missing the wood for the trees.
Potentially, but those will require for the high value jobs to be created here, not for high net worth individuals to move here from overseas.
Unlocking business investment is a much bigger driver of tech job creation than cutting personal taxation.
The 5% additional rate cut doesn't achieve creation of high value tech jobs.
The rate cut combined with the depreciation in Sterling undoubtedly makes it a relatively more attractive place to hire people.
I remain to be convinced that the rate cut will drive any additional £150k+ jobs in tech. Sterling diving maybe, but that's an unintended consequence of their incompetence not something they wanted, I hope.
I don’t think anyone seriously believes the £150k rate cut will “drive more jobs”.
As you’ve pointed out in other posts, there are other measures that would be much more effective there.
No, this was conceived as a symbol of intent. Indeed, there’s evidence that Kwasi-Truss considered this some kind of “gotcha” policy to shock and awe.
Sadly the only shock was in the currency and gilt markets.
I have a thread idea on rentseeking and why it's destroying the UK economy and causing a break down of society but I haven't got the time of energy to write it. Sad.
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
Too many people think that people's livelyhoods and the economy is a game, trying different strategies and not worrying about the consequences, a kind of sociopathy as it were. Kwazy Kwoissant and LizBot et al will move on if things go tits up, they won't be affected by short term economic disaster. Jacob Smug is so rich I often wonder why he is in Parliament. It can't be to do good things, as he hasn't yet.
Long lines of vehicles were seen at a border crossing between Mongolia and Russia on Sunday as people fled the Kremlin's call-up of hundreds of thousands of reservists for the war in Ukraine.
It's come to the point where the Russians are now more afraid of their own army than the Ukrainians are - to the extent that they're literally prepared to run away to Outer Mongolia to escape the draft. Though why the Mongolians would want to take in all that lot, Lord alone knows.
The poorest and middle earners will gain from the cuts to the basic rate etc too but the fact the biggest gainers will be the rich, especially from headline measures like the scrapping of the 45p rate and bankers' bonus cap, was not great politics.
The government will hope it leads to growth not a rising deficit too
scraps off the rich men's table....
Trickle down economics is just p*ssing downwards on the less well off, and laughing about it afterwards.
Would you characterise New Labour as trickle-down economics? Blair slapped down any attempts to increase the top rate from 40%.
The 45% tax rate was brought in for no reason other than the look of the thing. It wasn't brought in in the expectation of raising more revenue. I will certainly never be in favour of troubling that band, but I'm glad it's gone.
I think income is taxed too highly, and I’m not thrilled by the 45% rate.
But I’m also not stupid enough to believe that it ought to be the prime area for tax cutting.
That attitude is a recipe for not achieving anything in politics and just going along with the consensus. Maybe it takes someone who is stupid enough to implement their ideas to get anything done.
No, my attitude is based on what works.
Like Truss, but also Starmer, I’m desperate to see growth in the UK economy.
Trickle down doesn’t work. Prioritising those over £150k doesn’t make sense.
Trickle down is just a pejorative slogan, not the essence of the policy.
You're "not thrilled by the 45% rate"; Truss has abolished it. For you it would never have been the right time.
Not at all.
I am a long term bore on reducing income tax and increasing wealth tax.
I even responded “good” to the first rumours of stamp duty abolition.
I would be delighted to see the 45% scrapped and stamp duty abolished in the context of new wealth taxes and a sane fiscal framework.
We are not often on the same page but I agree with your last sentence
Commentators have pointed out that understandably Starmer vows to reinstate the 45% rate, but that he is to retain the abolition of the NI charge and the reduction to 19%, which ironically is costing 10 times the reduction in the 45 % rate
It would be churlish not to accept Truss/Kwarteng have embarked on a colossal gamble that could hand GE 24 to Starmar but I am relaxed about that now Corbyn has gone
However, he needs to have an answer on this insane pursuit of billions of pounds in wind farm technology when we know it is unreliable (just 15% last friday) and accept we need to access gas for years to come from the North Sea and the ludicrous promise by Miliband that we will be carbon zero for energy by 2030, just over 7 years from now
Keir’s questions to answer are about his ability to sell his vision.
I’m delighted with the general direction of economic policy I’ve seen so far from the Labour team.
It may not seem like it but I am relaxed about the 2024 election as of course I would like a conservative government but if labour win then it will be very interesting how they find all the billions needed to invest in the NHS, education, and now defence
So you are happy with this “conservative” government and its tax cutting for the really very wealthy rather than those aspiring to be wealthy…
It’s quite weird because in the next breath he says they are being ideological.
And his main beef seems to be with Labour for wishing to fund public services.
You misunderstand me
Labour promise billions for NHS and public services and in the climate they are likely to enter it is a fair question
So you are happy with the "conservative" government wrecking the economy, but will still blame Labourt for the results.
If they do wreck the economy then they will be out of office for a long time
Not necessarily.
If Johnson returns after a Truss disaster, prior to the next GE as a new broom and a safe pair of hands, the Conservatives will win.
The voters that matter seem to think that a new leader breaks continuity Conservative Governments.
You may very well be right.
The most depressing thing about this whole situation is that Labour is highly unlikely to learn the lessons of the past and weaponize electoral reform against the Conservative Party. All the latter therefore have to do is wait for a modest number of swing voters to get cheesed off, when the damage inflicted by this lot proves unamenable to resolution by quick fixes. Then we'll be back to yet another round of rapacious asset stripping and pocket lining for elderly homeowners and the stinking rich. And thus, the cycle of decline continues.
Last year, a call for proportional representation was defeated thanks to the big unions – but Unison and Unite have since shifted their position, and the people in charge of an umbrella group called Labour for a New Democracy sound confident that this year should see their side win. An understanding of the causal link between our endless national crises and the way we elect our MPs seems to have worked its way into the party’s collective soul, and such big Labour figures as the Welsh first minister, Mark Drakeford, and the Greater Manchester mayor, Andy Burnham, now support Labour’s reformers...
Reading what leon said about how accommodation now expensive in usa Looking at booking.com 1 night in manhattan mid oct Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night Los angeles mid october Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
It’s not just the exchange rate, it’s a surge in wages for US hospitality staff, post Covid, as the bosses can’t find the workers
Americans themselves are bemoaning these appalling prices - another reason so many of them in Europe
Yeah a couple of 2. Week in usa Flights around £ 1000 Accomodation if staying near major metro areas...lets say they are frugal pay £400 per night £2800 Spending Again assume frugal so £150 per day Total cost £5000 for week Average joe in uk unlikely to pay that
British Social Attitudes Survey: Almost four in 10 Labour voters back Scottish independence
Support for Scottish independence has risen among Labour voters and people living in England over the past decade, a major new survey has found.
The 39th annual British Social Attitudes (BSA) Survey sparked headlines last week as it recorded the highest level of support for independence north of the Border at 52% and an increase in support for Irish re-unification.
The latest survey shows that nearly four out of 10 – 38% – of Labour voters backed independence, while the proportion supporting devolution as the best way to govern had fallen to 53%. Eight per cent still thought Holyrood should not exist.
The views of Conservatives have changed little over that time, with 7% backing independence in 2010 compared to 5% in 2021. Support for devolution has risen slightly among Tories, from 63% to 69% – while one in four believe there should be no Scottish Parliament.
So 62% of Scottish Labour voters still don't support independence then, well above the Scottish average. Without Unionist Scottish Labour votes and tactical votes from SCons and the LDs where they are the main opponent to the SNP, SLab has no chance of any further seats.
Nonsense. The only road to success for Scottish Labour is being pro-Scottish. They need to appeal to Middle Scotland, not to BritNat extremists.
Maybe every budget until the end of time should focus on getting rid of incomes above say, £85k, and maybe this is the only acceptable "politics". It does, however, have the long-run impact that everyone regardless of income will end up paying more for the welfare state they want, like they do in Belgium or Finland.
Reading what leon said about how accommodation now expensive in usa Looking at booking.com 1 night in manhattan mid oct Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night Los angeles mid october Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
It’s not just the exchange rate, it’s a surge in wages for US hospitality staff, post Covid, as the bosses can’t find the workers
Americans themselves are bemoaning these appalling prices - another reason so many of them in Europe
Yeah a couple of 2. Week in usa Flights around £ 1000 Accomodation if staying near major metro areas...lets say they are frugal pay £400 per night £2800 Spending Again assume frugal so £150 per day Total cost £5000 for week Average joe in uk unlikely to pay that
thought everyone was airbnbing in the big cities these days.
Maybe every budget until the end of time should focus on getting rid of incomes above say, £85k, and maybe this is the only acceptable "politics". It does, however, have the long-run impact that everyone regardless of income will end up paying more for the welfare state they want, like they do in Belgium or Finland.
The more the likes of Lynch oppose Starmer, the better for his prospects in Tory held marginals
If you weren't innately predisposed to vote Conservative, pre-programmed if you like, I believe you would be campaigning for Starmer now.
No, I will always vote Conservative at general elections. The most I would go at a general election is LD not full Labour if I were ever to vote differently
British Social Attitudes Survey: Almost four in 10 Labour voters back Scottish independence
Support for Scottish independence has risen among Labour voters and people living in England over the past decade, a major new survey has found.
The 39th annual British Social Attitudes (BSA) Survey sparked headlines last week as it recorded the highest level of support for independence north of the Border at 52% and an increase in support for Irish re-unification.
The latest survey shows that nearly four out of 10 – 38% – of Labour voters backed independence, while the proportion supporting devolution as the best way to govern had fallen to 53%. Eight per cent still thought Holyrood should not exist.
The views of Conservatives have changed little over that time, with 7% backing independence in 2010 compared to 5% in 2021. Support for devolution has risen slightly among Tories, from 63% to 69% – while one in four believe there should be no Scottish Parliament.
So 62% of Scottish Labour voters still don't support independence then, well above the Scottish average. Without Unionist Scottish Labour votes and tactical votes from SCons and the LDs where they are the main opponent to the SNP, SLab has no chance of any further seats.
Nonsense. The only road to success for Scottish Labour is being pro-Scottish. They need to appeal to Middle Scotland, not to BritNat extremists.
Pro Scottish within the Union yes and winning over Middle Scotland Unionists, Scottish Nationalist extremists will never vote for them
Reading what leon said about how accommodation now expensive in usa Looking at booking.com 1 night in manhattan mid oct Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night Los angeles mid october Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
It’s not just the exchange rate, it’s a surge in wages for US hospitality staff, post Covid, as the bosses can’t find the workers
Americans themselves are bemoaning these appalling prices - another reason so many of them in Europe
Yeah a couple of 2. Week in usa Flights around £ 1000 Accomodation if staying near major metro areas...lets say they are frugal pay £400 per night £2800 Spending Again assume frugal so £150 per day Total cost £5000 for week Average joe in uk unlikely to pay that
thought everyone was airbnbing in the big cities these days.
Once all their fees are added hotels are usually cheaper...
Reading what leon said about how accommodation now expensive in usa Looking at booking.com 1 night in manhattan mid oct Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night Los angeles mid october Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
It’s not just the exchange rate, it’s a surge in wages for US hospitality staff, post Covid, as the bosses can’t find the workers
Americans themselves are bemoaning these appalling prices - another reason so many of them in Europe
Yeah a couple of 2. Week in usa Flights around £ 1000 Accomodation if staying near major metro areas...lets say they are frugal pay £400 per night £2800 Spending Again assume frugal so £150 per day Total cost £5000 for week Average joe in uk unlikely to pay that
Hmm. Excuse my ignorance - I don’t follow the type of websites and forums where I’m sure this sort of thing is discussed in depth, but…
Are there still cheap options? Like, I dunno, renting an RV and driving around Yellowstone? If it’s just accommodation that is the stinger, then there are ways around it if you’re flexible, surely?
British Social Attitudes Survey: Almost four in 10 Labour voters back Scottish independence
Support for Scottish independence has risen among Labour voters and people living in England over the past decade, a major new survey has found.
The 39th annual British Social Attitudes (BSA) Survey sparked headlines last week as it recorded the highest level of support for independence north of the Border at 52% and an increase in support for Irish re-unification.
The latest survey shows that nearly four out of 10 – 38% – of Labour voters backed independence, while the proportion supporting devolution as the best way to govern had fallen to 53%. Eight per cent still thought Holyrood should not exist.
The views of Conservatives have changed little over that time, with 7% backing independence in 2010 compared to 5% in 2021. Support for devolution has risen slightly among Tories, from 63% to 69% – while one in four believe there should be no Scottish Parliament.
So 62% of Scottish Labour voters still don't support independence then, well above the Scottish average. Without Unionist Scottish Labour votes and tactical votes from SCons and the LDs where they are the main opponent to the SNP, SLab has no chance of any further seats.
Nonsense. The only road to success for Scottish Labour is being pro-Scottish. They need to appeal to Middle Scotland, not to BritNat extremists.
Pro Scottish within the Union yes and winning over Middle Scotland Unionists, Scottish Nationalist extremists will never vote for them
Talking about Slab and winning over Middle Scotland ...
'SCOTTISH Labour acknowledged "mistakes were made" to representatives of the Catholic community after standing an Orangeman as a candidate in the local elections, it has been claimed.' [...]
Quigley said both Kelly and Sarwar had “acknowledged mistakes had been made” by Scottish Labour and said the party had shown a “willingness to help confront the hatred our community faces”.'
Reading what leon said about how accommodation now expensive in usa Looking at booking.com 1 night in manhattan mid oct Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night Los angeles mid october Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
It’s not just the exchange rate, it’s a surge in wages for US hospitality staff, post Covid, as the bosses can’t find the workers
Americans themselves are bemoaning these appalling prices - another reason so many of them in Europe
Yeah a couple of 2. Week in usa Flights around £ 1000 Accomodation if staying near major metro areas...lets say they are frugal pay £400 per night £2800 Spending Again assume frugal so £150 per day Total cost £5000 for week Average joe in uk unlikely to pay that
Hmm. Excuse my ignorance - I don’t follow the type of websites and forums where I’m sure this sort of thing is discussed in depth, but…
Are there still cheap options? Like, I dunno, renting an RV and driving around Yellowstone? If it’s just accommodation that is the stinger, then there are ways around it if you’re flexible, surely?
RV rental is extortionate, and then there’s the pitch charges in campgrounds. Motels still by far the cheapest options.
We were thinking of a US road trip next year but decided not to because of the exchange rate. Doing Georgia instead.
Reading what leon said about how accommodation now expensive in usa Looking at booking.com 1 night in manhattan mid oct Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night Los angeles mid october Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
It’s not just the exchange rate, it’s a surge in wages for US hospitality staff, post Covid, as the bosses can’t find the workers
Americans themselves are bemoaning these appalling prices - another reason so many of them in Europe
Yeah a couple of 2. Week in usa Flights around £ 1000 Accomodation if staying near major metro areas...lets say they are frugal pay £400 per night £2800 Spending Again assume frugal so £150 per day Total cost £5000 for week Average joe in uk unlikely to pay that
Hmm. Excuse my ignorance - I don’t follow the type of websites and forums where I’m sure this sort of thing is discussed in depth, but…
Are there still cheap options? Like, I dunno, renting an RV and driving around Yellowstone? If it’s just accommodation that is the stinger, then there are ways around it if you’re flexible, surely?
Of course there are...you could camp if you wanted...but thats hardly the point...many average middle class couples wont want to do that
Reading what leon said about how accommodation now expensive in usa Looking at booking.com 1 night in manhattan mid oct Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night Los angeles mid october Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
It’s not just the exchange rate, it’s a surge in wages for US hospitality staff, post Covid, as the bosses can’t find the workers
Americans themselves are bemoaning these appalling prices - another reason so many of them in Europe
Yeah a couple of 2. Week in usa Flights around £ 1000 Accomodation if staying near major metro areas...lets say they are frugal pay £400 per night £2800 Spending Again assume frugal so £150 per day Total cost £5000 for week Average joe in uk unlikely to pay that
Hmm. Excuse my ignorance - I don’t follow the type of websites and forums where I’m sure this sort of thing is discussed in depth, but…
Are there still cheap options? Like, I dunno, renting an RV and driving around Yellowstone? If it’s just accommodation that is the stinger, then there are ways around it if you’re flexible, surely?
RV rental is extortionate, and then there’s the pitch charges in campgrounds. Motels still by far the cheapest options.
We were thinking of a US road trip next year but decided not to because of the exchange rate. Doing Georgia instead.
A friend was telling me there's a way you can buy an RV/camper van as a foreigner through a limited company in Montana - and then sell it at the end of your trip. Substantially cheaper than renting one for 1+ months.
Maybe every budget until the end of time should focus on getting rid of incomes above say, £85k, and maybe this is the only acceptable "politics". It does, however, have the long-run impact that everyone regardless of income will end up paying more for the welfare state they want, like they do in Belgium or Finland.
Interesting. You seem somewhat resigned.
What do you think will happen now?
It's just an observation.
The most likely outcome of this budget is that it gets reversed because the fools forgot to, er, pay for it.
If Rishi has any ambition to become PM then he needs to rebel against this budget and stand up for middle and lower income people. He only needs 37 rebels I think, given the nature and scale of the the cuts for rich people and sterling tanking I think he could find them.
Reading what leon said about how accommodation now expensive in usa Looking at booking.com 1 night in manhattan mid oct Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night Los angeles mid october Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
It’s not just the exchange rate, it’s a surge in wages for US hospitality staff, post Covid, as the bosses can’t find the workers
Americans themselves are bemoaning these appalling prices - another reason so many of them in Europe
Yeah a couple of 2. Week in usa Flights around £ 1000 Accomodation if staying near major metro areas...lets say they are frugal pay £400 per night £2800 Spending Again assume frugal so £150 per day Total cost £5000 for week Average joe in uk unlikely to pay that
Hmm. Excuse my ignorance - I don’t follow the type of websites and forums where I’m sure this sort of thing is discussed in depth, but…
Are there still cheap options? Like, I dunno, renting an RV and driving around Yellowstone? If it’s just accommodation that is the stinger, then there are ways around it if you’re flexible, surely?
RV rental is extortionate, and then there’s the pitch charges in campgrounds. Motels still by far the cheapest options.
We were thinking of a US road trip next year but decided not to because of the exchange rate. Doing Georgia instead.
A friend was telling me there's a way you can buy an RV/camper van as a foreigner through a limited company in Montana - and then sell it at the end of your trip. Substantially cheaper than renting one for 1+ months.
If Rishi has any ambition to become PM then he needs to rebel against this budget and stand up for middle and lower income people. He only needs 37 rebels I think, given the nature and scale of the the cuts for rich people and sterling tanking I think he could find them.
He just lost a leadership election on these issues. It would create a massive crisis for the Conservative party if he tried to get MPs to overrule the result.
Biden adviser: US will ‘respond decisively’ if Russia uses nuclear weapons
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/3660107-biden-adviser-us-will-respond-decisively-if-russia-uses-nuclear-weapons/ White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan on Sunday said the United States will “respond decisively” if Russian President Vladimir Putin moves to use nuclear weapons. “We have communicated directly, privately, at very high levels, to the Kremlin that any use of nuclear weapons will be met with catastrophic consequences for Russia, that the United States and our allies will respond decisively. And we have been clear and specific about what that will entail,” Sullivan told CBS…
Comments
If you are arguing Kwarteng was behaving in a similar way that's your choice.
But Comres are fairly Lab+ Green- and 45+33+presumably 5% for SNP only leaves 17% for the rest so implies something like LD 10%, Green 4%, Refuk 2% other 1%, thus LLG roughly 58-60%.
Anyone have the full scores?
The thing that really matters is the fiscal trajectory from here. Truss and Kwarteng’s plan is more tax cuts, fairly soon, focused on those lower down the income scale.
Deficit be damned.
They’re totally wrecking the public finances. That’s their explicit plan.
Try to win the election, then they’ll start banging on about balancing the books by slashing the state.
It’s thoroughly dishonest and irresponsible government. If I were a Tory, this is the thing I’d be ashamed about.
Do the tories on this site support this plan? Because that’s what you’re going to be defending at the next election.
Wreck the public finances, needlessly indebt the next generation, attempt to win an election, slash the state. That is the agenda you are explicitly supporting when you pay your membership fee and you cast your vote.
I would gently suggest you wait for Labour to publish its plans in more detail before pearl clutching about their interest in better public services.
Send me the bullets!
Meanwhile, we can see signs Government Budget is working staggering well ALREADY, with flocks across London Bridge this weekend, into the city.
Or is it as simple as:
Labour deficit bad, Tory deficit good?
If Johnson returns after a Truss disaster, prior to the next GE as a new broom and a safe pair of hands, the Conservatives will win.
The voters that matter seem to think that a new leader breaks continuity Conservative Governments.
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1574042287281152001
It's come to the point where the Russians are now more afraid of their own army than the Ukrainians are - to the extent that they're literally prepared to run away to Outer Mongolia to escape the draft. Though why the Mongolians would want to take in all that lot, Lord alone knows.
One of these 35% for Truss was a +5 on the previous poll, so -2 from last time is still +3 on that previous, so Truss honeymoon uptick still going on imo.
The most depressing thing about this whole situation is that Labour is highly unlikely to learn the lessons of the past and weaponize electoral reform against the Conservative Party. All the latter therefore have to do is wait for a modest number of swing voters to get cheesed off, when the damage inflicted by this lot proves unamenable to resolution by quick fixes. Then we'll be back to yet another round of rapacious asset stripping and pocket lining for elderly homeowners and the stinking rich. And thus, the cycle of decline continues.
https://www.exchangerates.org.uk/news/36595/2022-09-24-mini-budget-analysis-4-interest-rate-by-early-2023
https://www.exchangerates.org.uk/news/36595/2022-09-24-mini-budget-analysis-4-interest-rate-by-early-2023.html
5 Tory constituency MSPs, 26 list MSPs if I recall rightly. (ANd MPs don't count as we are talking about Holyrood, given your slur on Mr Findlay).
Support for Scottish independence has risen among Labour voters and people living in England over the past decade, a major new survey has found.
The 39th annual British Social Attitudes (BSA) Survey sparked headlines last week as it recorded the highest level of support for independence north of the Border at 52% and an increase in support for Irish re-unification.
The latest survey shows that nearly four out of 10 – 38% – of Labour voters backed independence, while the proportion supporting devolution as the best way to govern had fallen to 53%. Eight per cent still thought Holyrood should not exist.
The views of Conservatives have changed little over that time, with 7% backing independence in 2010 compared to 5% in 2021. Support for devolution has risen slightly among Tories, from 63% to 69% – while one in four believe there should be no Scottish Parliament.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/22632131.british-social--attitudes-almost-four-10-labour-voters-back-scottish-independence/
Perhaps better if they can hold off a week, maybe until Kwasi is due to speak at the Tory conference...
Looking at booking.com
1 night in manhattan mid oct
Cheapest hotel round £350 per night average around £550 per night
Los angeles mid october
Bog standard hotel in santa monica around £500 per night
These prices price out much of the uk middle class from the usa
Pound dollar exchange rate is killing us here
Ian Murray's success in Edinburgh South in beating the SNP with Unionist votes united behind him should be the SLab model.
Of course since the Queen's death support for independence has fallen anyway
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/22292141.support-independence-queens-death-poll-suggests/
Americans themselves are bemoaning these appalling prices - another reason so many of them in Europe
https://twitter.com/johnmcternan/status/1573747634417897474?s=46&t=ATQN-YAT9KTOhRCiVeFMpg
Che peccato.
If not, what a missed opportunity.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/25/liz-truss-keir-starmer-electoral-reform-voting-system
… Polling suggests that 83% of Labour members now support electoral reform. In the buildup to its conference this week, about 140 constituency parties have submitted motions calling for exactly that. Unless backroom fixes get in the way, a resolution proposing a new voting system should be debated on Monday afternoon.
Last year, a call for proportional representation was defeated thanks to the big unions – but Unison and Unite have since shifted their position, and the people in charge of an umbrella group called Labour for a New Democracy sound confident that this year should see their side win. An understanding of the causal link between our endless national crises and the way we elect our MPs seems to have worked its way into the party’s collective soul, and such big Labour figures as the Welsh first minister, Mark Drakeford, and the Greater Manchester mayor, Andy Burnham, now support Labour’s reformers...
Week in usa
Flights around £ 1000
Accomodation if staying near major metro areas...lets say they are frugal pay £400 per night £2800
Spending Again assume frugal so £150 per day
Total cost £5000 for week
Average joe in uk unlikely to pay that
What do you think will happen now?
Are there still cheap options? Like, I dunno, renting an RV and driving around Yellowstone? If it’s just accommodation that is the stinger, then there are ways around it if you’re flexible, surely?
https://www.thenational.scot/news/22639088.scottish-labour-acknowledged-mistake-orangeman-councillor-says-call/
'SCOTTISH Labour acknowledged "mistakes were made" to representatives of the Catholic community after standing an Orangeman as a candidate in the local elections, it has been claimed.' [...]
Quigley said both Kelly and Sarwar had “acknowledged mistakes had been made” by Scottish Labour and said the party had shown a “willingness to help confront the hatred our community faces”.'
We were thinking of a US road trip next year but decided not to because of the exchange rate. Doing Georgia instead.
This
https://www.newsflare.com/video/241746/footage-shows-farmers-in-cumbria-moving-hundreds-of-sheep-down-from-the-fells
is a medium size flock of sheep in Cumbria.
The most likely outcome of this budget is that it gets reversed because the fools forgot to, er, pay for it.
What’s going on in Dagestan, and might this have a multiplier effect in neighbouring republics?
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/3660107-biden-adviser-us-will-respond-decisively-if-russia-uses-nuclear-weapons/
White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan on Sunday said the United States will “respond decisively” if Russian President Vladimir Putin moves to use nuclear weapons.
“We have communicated directly, privately, at very high levels, to the Kremlin that any use of nuclear weapons will be met with catastrophic consequences for Russia, that the United States and our allies will respond decisively. And we have been clear and specific about what that will entail,” Sullivan told CBS…