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CON & LAB now level pegging in the GE most seats betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,801
    Pro_Rata said:

    Italy:

    The election wends on, it doesn't feel from this distance like it has caught great light or hit an overriding theme, but has been a little under the surface, not least because the ongoing, now caretaker, Draghi government has continued with its major work, particularly the National Recovery and Resilience Plan (basically COVID recovery and energy security).

    In as much as anything has happened, PD, the main centre-left partner, has lost a little polling ground, primarily to M5S, where Conte has had a decent campaign and is now edging Lega.

    Aggregate polling around:
    Right 46, Centre-left 28, M5S 13, Centre 7

    That still.points to a substantial right majority of 60%+ of seats in both houses.

    Some leader confidence net ratings:

    Draghi: +10
    Meloni: -20
    Conte: -21 (also improving)
    Salvini: -28
    Berlusconi: -30
    Letta: -38
    Renzi: -60

    Broadly, nobody that popular, but right politicians beat centre-left beat Centre, beat extremes.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    edited September 2022

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    Bloody tax dodgers, make them pay. Just think of the hospitals the NHS could open if the Royals paid taxes like the rest of us.

    King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

    Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

    The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-will-not-pay-tax-on-inheritance-from-the-queen

    The Crown Estate, in effect, belongs to the government, so that would not be an issue for IHT purposes.

    As to the rest, most would be untaxed under normal rules. Country houses that are open 25 days a year, significant artworks, are exempt, thanks to Roy Jenkins.

    Farmland gets 100% business property relief, and woodlands get a special light regime.

    Ok, so let us sell some of the assets off to help pay down the national debt.
    The return on the assets is quite good - why would you sell capital to pay debt?
    A hedge fund manager would see an opportunity here. Gift the assets from the Crown estate where we have 75% of the revenue to a new UK asset fund where we have 100% of the revenue.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Carnyx said:

    Bloody tax dodgers, make them pay. Just think of the hospitals the NHS could open if the Royals paid taxes like the rest of us.

    King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

    Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

    The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-will-not-pay-tax-on-inheritance-from-the-queen

    Hmm. IANAE but surely the RF also have private trusts anyway. Though that would not count as 'sovereigh to sovereign'.

    The other issue is that, presumably, the late Queen's will and inventory valuation will not be published (following the example of her consort). Unlike the rest of us.
    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?
    Counter-Darwinian money sink.

    next?
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    MISTY said:
    I would like to know whats realy going on there.

    It looks like Azerbaijan has started this because the first shots came form there side, but that seems illogical, Azibajane did well at the last conflict, taking all the disputed areas, pulse a few extra bits. I would have thought that it would be in Arabinans interest to lest this stand, let the new day-facto line of control last and eventually tern into a recognised boarder.

    Arminia does not seem to be in a position to start things up again, especially as Russia has been there biggest backer in the passed and they are a bit busy at the moment.

    Am I too sceptical to wonder if Putin is some how behind this? perhaps by bribing/blackmailing the right people to get the conflict going in the hope it will both limit or stop oil/gas delivery's thought the area, and similtaniasly distract attention from Ukraine.

    Am I missing something?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Italy:

    The election wends on, it doesn't feel from this distance like it has caught great light or hit an overriding theme, but has been a little under the surface, not least because the ongoing, now caretaker, Draghi government has continued with its major work, particularly the National Recovery and Resilience Plan (basically COVID recovery and energy security).

    In as much as anything has happened, PD, the main centre-left partner, has lost a little polling ground, primarily to M5S, where Conte has had a decent campaign and is now edging Lega.

    Aggregate polling around:
    Right 46, Centre-left 28, M5S 13, Centre 7

    That still.points to a substantial right majority of 60%+ of seats in both houses.

    Some leader confidence net ratings:

    Draghi: +10
    Meloni: -20
    Conte: -21 (also improving)
    Salvini: -28
    Berlusconi: -30
    Letta: -38
    Renzi: -60

    Broadly, nobody that popular, but right politicians beat centre-left beat Centre, beat extremes.
    And Meloni still on course to become the first elected Nationalist right and ex Fascist party PM or President of a Western European nation post WW2
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bloody tax dodgers, make them pay. Just think of the hospitals the NHS could open if the Royals paid taxes like the rest of us.

    King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

    Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

    The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-will-not-pay-tax-on-inheritance-from-the-queen

    Stop lying for your agenda.

    Charles and all other beneficiaries will pay full inheritance tax on all assets received from the private estate of the Queen.

    He will not pay IHT on the Queen's sovereign assets which belonged to the Crown not her personally
    In the latter case, he gets the benefit of them. If other people try that with HMRC ...

    And if it pertains to a state function it should be handed over to the state.

    It's how much is in private trusts that is alkso of interest.

    Since when did the PM pay tax for the benefit of No 10 or Chequers? The Crown Estate belongs to the Crown but most of its revenues go to the state or to ensure taxpayers don't pay for royal duties anyway
    Mr Johnson didn't have any right to the income from letting Chequers out for parties, did he?

    Edit: and he had to pay for upkeep, heating, etc., for his personal flat. Only the bit pertaining to his duties was tax-free.

    You can't seriously claim that a bit of the sea bed making money from wind farms, for instance, is necessary to the performance of the sovereign's duties, especially as only 25% of the income *even now* goes to the sovereign.
    No as taxpayers pay the PMs costs directly whereas they don't for the Monarch, the Crown Estate does.

    Most Crown Estate income goes directly to the Treasury to fund the NHS etc yes only 25% to fund the sovereign grant
  • Options
    DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Azerbaijan, victor in the 2020 war, has today attacked Armenia at multiple points.
  • Options
    MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Stocks getting smacked following that US inflation data. Looks OK at the headline rate, a slight slowing, but the core measure is up. Ugh.

    75bp hike now fully priced in for next meeting.

    What the feck are Bailey and co up to?
  • Options
    Chris said:

    Carnyx said:

    Bloody tax dodgers, make them pay. Just think of the hospitals the NHS could open if the Royals paid taxes like the rest of us.

    King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

    Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

    The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-will-not-pay-tax-on-inheritance-from-the-queen

    Hmm. IANAE but surely the RF also have private trusts anyway. Though that would not count as 'sovereigh to sovereign'.

    The other issue is that, presumably, the late Queen's will and inventory valuation will not be published (following the example of her consort). Unlike the rest of us.
    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?
    It hasn't taken long to get back to the infantile, has it?
    It is more than apparent that your level of intellect, analysis and comment is permanently infantile, so that way, for you at least, there is no reason at all for you to "get back to the infantile" as you rarely leave your familiar home ground.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Didn’t he affirm some oath about defending the Church of Scotland?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bloody tax dodgers, make them pay. Just think of the hospitals the NHS could open if the Royals paid taxes like the rest of us.

    King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

    Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

    The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-will-not-pay-tax-on-inheritance-from-the-queen

    Stop lying for your agenda.

    Charles and all other beneficiaries will pay full inheritance tax on all assets received from the private estate of the Queen.

    He will not pay IHT on the Queen's sovereign assets which belonged to the Crown not her personally
    In the latter case, he gets the benefit of them. If other people try that with HMRC ...

    And if it pertains to a state function it should be handed over to the state.

    It's how much is in private trusts that is alkso of interest.

    Since when did the PM pay tax for the benefit of No 10 or Chequers? The Crown Estate belongs to the Crown but most of its revenues go to the state or to ensure taxpayers don't pay for royal duties anyway
    Mr Johnson didn't have any right to the income from letting Chequers out for parties, did he?

    Edit: and he had to pay for upkeep, heating, etc., for his personal flat. Only the bit pertaining to his duties was tax-free.

    You can't seriously claim that a bit of the sea bed making money from wind farms, for instance, is necessary to the performance of the sovereign's duties, especially as only 25% of the income *even now* goes to the sovereign.
    No as taxpayers pay the PMs costs directly whereas they don't for the Monarch, the Crown Estate does.

    Most Crown Estate income goes directly to the Treasury to fund the NHS etc yes only 25% to fund the sovereign grant
    In other words. the taxpayer is losing 25% of the CE income to go to the sovereigh. It all has the same effecxt.

    You are continuiing to avoid the point - that most of the CE is demonstrably unnecessary for the sovereign to do his duties. Probably all of it, given the amount spent on minor royals in recent decades who are unnecessary on any realistic appreciation. And therefore should be handed over to the state.
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,966

    Sean_F said:

    Bloody tax dodgers, make them pay. Just think of the hospitals the NHS could open if the Royals paid taxes like the rest of us.

    King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

    Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

    The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-will-not-pay-tax-on-inheritance-from-the-queen

    The Crown Estate, in effect, belongs to the government, so that would not be an issue for IHT purposes.

    As to the rest, most would be untaxed under normal rules. Country houses that are open 25 days a year, significant artworks, are exempt, thanks to Roy Jenkins.

    Farmland gets 100% business property relief, and woodlands get a special light regime.

    Ok, so let us sell some of the assets off to help pay down the national debt.
    The return on the assets is quite good - why would you sell capital to pay debt?
    The Royals don't need all those residences.
    Just think how much Trump would pay for Buckingham Palace!
  • Options
    DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited September 2022
    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Didn’t he affirm some oath about defending the Church of Scotland?
    So he did, on checking. Maybe when he was up here anyway.

    https://www.royal.uk/his-majesty-kings-oath-relating-security-church-scotland
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited September 2022
    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,251
    edited September 2022
    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,884
    edited September 2022
    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unambiguously that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland.
    It isn't hers to do anything with, is it?
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    Bloody tax dodgers, make them pay. Just think of the hospitals the NHS could open if the Royals paid taxes like the rest of us.

    King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

    Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

    The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-will-not-pay-tax-on-inheritance-from-the-queen

    The Crown Estate, in effect, belongs to the government, so that would not be an issue for IHT purposes.

    As to the rest, most would be untaxed under normal rules. Country houses that are open 25 days a year, significant artworks, are exempt, thanks to Roy Jenkins.

    Farmland gets 100% business property relief, and woodlands get a special light regime.

    Ok, so let us sell some of the assets off to help pay down the national debt.
    The return on the assets is quite good - why would you sell capital to pay debt?
    The Royals don't need all those residences.
    Just think how much Trump would pay for Buckingham Palace!
    Indeed and we can seize it back without paying a penny by saying he’s close to Putin.
  • Options
    Another Eric Berger hit-piece ...

    He's gone totally native since he got all those lovely contacts for his SpaceX book.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland.
    SNP isn't a republican party, despite what you seem to think. That mediaeval monastic cesspit lid is always required for Westminster coronations, for some reason.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,881

    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination

    The helicopter shots of Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh in the sunshine were fantastic. Do we know if they were broadcast in the US etc?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unambiguously that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland.
    It isn't hers to do anything with, is it?
    It is. Commissioners for the Keeping of the Regalia.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,801
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Italy:

    The election wends on, it doesn't feel from this distance like it has caught great light or hit an overriding theme, but has been a little under the surface, not least because the ongoing, now caretaker, Draghi government has continued with its major work, particularly the National Recovery and Resilience Plan (basically COVID recovery and energy security).

    In as much as anything has happened, PD, the main centre-left partner, has lost a little polling ground, primarily to M5S, where Conte has had a decent campaign and is now edging Lega.

    Aggregate polling around:
    Right 46, Centre-left 28, M5S 13, Centre 7

    That still.points to a substantial right majority of 60%+ of seats in both houses.

    Some leader confidence net ratings:

    Draghi: +10
    Meloni: -20
    Conte: -21 (also improving)
    Salvini: -28
    Berlusconi: -30
    Letta: -38
    Renzi: -60

    Broadly, nobody that popular, but right politicians beat centre-left beat Centre, beat extremes.
    Issue net agreement (Quorum / YouTrend for Sky News)

    EU and Euro essential to Italy and shouldn't be up for discussion: +25
    Should support Ukraine, including supplying arms: -10
    Impose continued sanctions on Russia: +9
    (As they stand or weaker): +/-0
    Fast track citizenship for the school children of immigrants: +30
    Italians should have priority over immigrants for public housing: +38
    Implement a flat taxation system: +5
    Out of work benefits are too generous: +30
    Abortion laws are too liberal: -28
    Heavier punishments for the cannabis trade: -7
    Implement new laws against homophobia and transphobia: +37
    Legalise euthanasia for terminal illness: +56

    Untangle all that if you will!
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,881
    Eabhal said:

    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination

    The helicopter shots of Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh in the sunshine were fantastic. Do we know if they were broadcast in the US etc?
    But also a huge missed opportunity not to have the Royal Train go across the Forth Bridge/ECML.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination

    The helicopter shots of Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh in the sunshine were fantastic. Do we know if they were broadcast in the US etc?
    But also a huge missed opportunity not to have the Royal Train go across the Forth Bridge/ECML.
    Fried royalists flinging paddington bears and flowers onto overhead wires are not good TV.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    At this moment in time the monarchy has support even with the young but, that support does require the monarchy to adjust to the times, slim down the hangers on, and pay taxes
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination

    The helicopter shots of Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh in the sunshine were fantastic. Do we know if they were broadcast in the US etc?
    But also a huge missed opportunity not to have the Royal Train go across the Forth Bridge/ECML.
    Agree.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MISTY said:

    Stocks getting smacked following that US inflation data. Looks OK at the headline rate, a slight slowing, but the core measure is up. Ugh.

    75bp hike now fully priced in for next meeting.

    What the feck are Bailey and co up to?

    Being respectful. No time for frivolous pastimes like setting the base rate while HM is in her coffin
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    Interesting stats. I am something of a monarchy-sceptic, but nonetheless feel the change is not really worth the hassle. I do think they should be taxed in the same way any other ordinary billionaire is though.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    Say it ain't so!
  • Options
    DynamoDynamo Posts: 651

    Sean_F said:

    Bloody tax dodgers, make them pay. Just think of the hospitals the NHS could open if the Royals paid taxes like the rest of us.

    King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

    Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

    The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-will-not-pay-tax-on-inheritance-from-the-queen

    The Crown Estate, in effect, belongs to the government, so that would not be an issue for IHT purposes.

    As to the rest, most would be untaxed under normal rules. Country houses that are open 25 days a year, significant artworks, are exempt, thanks to Roy Jenkins.

    Farmland gets 100% business property relief, and woodlands get a special light regime.

    Ok, so let us sell some of the assets off to help pay down the national debt.
    The return on the assets is quite good - why would you sell capital to pay debt?
    The Royals don't need all those residences.
    Just think how much Trump would pay for Buckingham Palace!
    The royal family are self-sacrificers to whom we should all be grateful for protecting us from the vulgar, the commercial, and the trashy? C III R vs $Coca-Cola?

    This meme appears a lot, for example in the vicious attacks on Meghan.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination

    The helicopter shots of Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh in the sunshine were fantastic. Do we know if they were broadcast in the US etc?
    But also a huge missed opportunity not to have the Royal Train go across the Forth Bridge/ECML.
    Fried royalists flinging paddington bears and flowers onto overhead wires are not good TV.
    Disagree.
  • Options
    MISTY said:

    Leon said:

    If Crimea falls, Putin falls

    When.

    Its not that long ago that Putin apologists on this site were saying the idea of Crimea falling was laughable and not achievable.

    The curtain has really been pulled back and shown Russia in its true, wretched state.
    The thing is, that could be a cue for instability and unrest in all kinds of areas where the Russians have influence. Syria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Chechnya etc.

    Good.

    Dictatorships are the wrong kind of stability. Time to shake the kaleidoscope and see what comes up.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    Interesting stats. I am something of a monarchy-sceptic, but nonetheless feel the change is not really worth the hassle. I do think they should be taxed in the same way any other ordinary billionaire is though.
    The interesting question that would reveal is - how much is your average billionaire on the street actually taxed, when it comes to family trusts? A very sensitive issue. Perhaps the RF should take one for their income class.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,881
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination

    The helicopter shots of Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh in the sunshine were fantastic. Do we know if they were broadcast in the US etc?
    But also a huge missed opportunity not to have the Royal Train go across the Forth Bridge/ECML.
    Fried royalists flinging paddington bears and flowers onto overhead wires are not good TV.
    Dunno, that would be quite entertaining!
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Didn’t he affirm some oath about defending the Church of Scotland?
    So he did, on checking. Maybe when he was up here anyway.

    https://www.royal.uk/his-majesty-kings-oath-relating-security-church-scotland
    Lots of excitement on twitter that this was some affirmation of (a minimal) Scottish sovereignty, but afaics it was mostly about confirming that the Church of Scotland has ascendancy over the Papists. Am I misreading it?
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination

    The helicopter shots of Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh in the sunshine were fantastic. Do we know if they were broadcast in the US etc?
    I assume the feed was international but the drive from Balmoral to Aberdeen and as you say from Auld Reekie were stunning and almost a travelogue
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination

    The helicopter shots of Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh in the sunshine were fantastic. Do we know if they were broadcast in the US etc?
    But also a huge missed opportunity not to have the Royal Train go across the Forth Bridge/ECML.
    Fried royalists flinging paddington bears and flowers onto overhead wires are not good TV.
    Disagree.
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination

    The helicopter shots of Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh in the sunshine were fantastic. Do we know if they were broadcast in the US etc?
    But also a huge missed opportunity not to have the Royal Train go across the Forth Bridge/ECML.
    Fried royalists flinging paddington bears and flowers onto overhead wires are not good TV.
    Dunno, that would be quite entertaining!
    Good grief - we've got HYUFD demanding executions for the crime of demonstrating/being arseholes near Royality, and now this ...
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,398

    Selebian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Bloody tax dodgers, make them pay. Just think of the hospitals the NHS could open if the Royals paid taxes like the rest of us.

    King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

    Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

    The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-will-not-pay-tax-on-inheritance-from-the-queen

    Hmm. IANAE but surely the RF also have private trusts anyway. Though that would not count as 'sovereigh to sovereign'.

    The other issue is that, presumably, the late Queen's will and inventory valuation will not be published (following the example of her consort). Unlike the rest of us.
    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?
    I don't know; but it's do, not does. Tut.
    Any typos I make are clearly and solely down to autocorrect
    Including absent full stops, of course.
    Shows that we really do need Period Officers
    Deleted - probably inappropriate joke.
    I'm intrigued now!
  • Options
    DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    So that's 25% (of those who expressed an opinion) wanting to get rid of the monarchy. Funny we don't get 25% of airtime. And it's 42% of 18-24s.

    Meanwhile a poll is running at The Student Room, Britain's leading online forum for students, asking "Do you want King Charles to be the king or not?" The current score is 80%-20% in favour of "No". Not many voters yet, though.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    That is down from 75% 10 years ago, and at a time of high emotion. It'll be sub 50 in 10 years time.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    A poll is running at The Student Room, Britain's leading online forum for students, asking "Do you want King Charles to be the king or not?" The current score is 80%-20% in favour of "No". Not many voters yet, though.
    Who cares, that is not scientific and even most 18 to 24s are not students and more of them now back the monarchy than not with Yougov
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Good afternoon

    Away from politics and monarchy, the visuals from Scotland, England and now Ireland in lovely Autumn sun demonstrates what a beautiful country this is and travel destination

    The helicopter shots of Aberdeenshire and Edinburgh in the sunshine were fantastic. Do we know if they were broadcast in the US etc?
    But also a huge missed opportunity not to have the Royal Train go across the Forth Bridge/ECML.
    Indeed
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    Interesting stats. I am something of a monarchy-sceptic, but nonetheless feel the change is not really worth the hassle. I do think they should be taxed in the same way any other ordinary billionaire is though.
    The interesting question that would reveal is - how much is your average billionaire on the street actually taxed, when it comes to family trusts? A very sensitive issue. Perhaps the RF should take one for their income class.
    I am all in favour of legitimate rich people having legitimate ways of protecting their assets. The royals should be subject to the same rules and take advantage of the same loopholes if their accountants can find them. Taxation should have equal rules for all
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,456
    "Opinion
    The great Net Zero lie
    Our leaders just want to take control
    By Thomas Fazi"

    https://unherd.com/2022/09/the-great-net-zero-lie/
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Chris said:

    Carnyx said:

    Bloody tax dodgers, make them pay. Just think of the hospitals the NHS could open if the Royals paid taxes like the rest of us.

    King Charles will not pay tax on the fortune he has inherited from the late Queen, although he has volunteered to follow his mother’s lead in paying income tax.

    Under a clause agreed in 1993 by the then prime minister, John Major, any inheritance passed “sovereign to sovereign” avoids the 40% levy applied to assets valued at more than £325,000.

    The crown estate has an estimated £15.2bn in assets, of which 25% of the profits are given to the royal family as the sovereign grant. The estate includes the royal archives and the royal collection of paintings, which are held by the monarch “in right of the crown”.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/king-charles-will-not-pay-tax-on-inheritance-from-the-queen

    Hmm. IANAE but surely the RF also have private trusts anyway. Though that would not count as 'sovereigh to sovereign'.

    The other issue is that, presumably, the late Queen's will and inventory valuation will not be published (following the example of her consort). Unlike the rest of us.
    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?
    It hasn't taken long to get back to the infantile, has it?
    Are you talking about posts about Covid-19?

    Who can forget the most intelligent person on PB posting as much shite as you did.
    I don't think I posted any shite about Covid-19, so why have I got dragged into this?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    edited September 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Didn’t he affirm some oath about defending the Church of Scotland?
    So he did, on checking. Maybe when he was up here anyway.

    https://www.royal.uk/his-majesty-kings-oath-relating-security-church-scotland
    Lots of excitement on twitter that this was some affirmation of (a minimal) Scottish sovereignty, but afaics it was mostly about confirming that the Church of Scotland has ascendancy over the Papists. Am I misreading it?
    No - it was very much a case of ascendancy over Erastian Episcopalian/C of E type such as bishops and Royal supremacy. To help araldite King Billy on the throne by leeping the minister mannies happy, and to be fair manyt lieges. The RC bit was sort of baked in anyway once you'd done that, but was a bonus given the proclivities of the later Stuarts.

    No more Laudian innovations and no more stools* flung in the High Kirk a la 1637.

    *The three legged kind, but I'm sure the unfortunate guinea pig of a priest in 1638 got the brown kind outside as well.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
    LOL you really think the original is in Scotland?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited September 2022
    Scots also back keeping the monarchy 47% to 35%, outside of Scotland support for the monarchy strongest in the South at 71% beyond London and lowest in London at 51%.

    78% of Leave voters want to keep the monarchy compared to 60% of Remainers who are monarchists

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/c2lzp15u60/TheTimes_RoyalFamily_Results_220912.pdf
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    Interesting stats. I am something of a monarchy-sceptic, but nonetheless feel the change is not really worth the hassle. I do think they should be taxed in the same way any other ordinary billionaire is though.
    The interesting question that would reveal is - how much is your average billionaire on the street actually taxed, when it comes to family trusts? A very sensitive issue. Perhaps the RF should take one for their income class.
    Very little I should think.

    The thing about IHT is that it's only expensive houses, bank accounts, and quoted shares that are taxed at 40%.

    Everything else is either untaxed, or taxed at a much lower level. That includes country houses that are open to the public, for at least 25 days a year, heritage assets, business property, farmland, woodland and unit trusts.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,884
    edited September 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unambiguously that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland.
    It isn't hers to do anything with, is it?
    It is. Commissioners for the Keeping of the Regalia.
    Ah, fair enough. Her and a few friends.

    Is the current one even the original? It was out of sight for quite a while, after all.

    It is just a bit of stone from the Annaty Burn anyway, isn't it? It isn't from anywhere exotic.
  • Options

    MISTY said:

    Leon said:

    If Crimea falls, Putin falls

    When.

    Its not that long ago that Putin apologists on this site were saying the idea of Crimea falling was laughable and not achievable.

    The curtain has really been pulled back and shown Russia in its true, wretched state.
    The thing is, that could be a cue for instability and unrest in all kinds of areas where the Russians have influence. Syria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Chechnya etc.

    Good.

    Dictatorships are the wrong kind of stability. Time to shake the kaleidoscope and see what comes up.
    I can't see those being blown up being very grateful that they have been freed from their 'wrong type of stability'. What a fatuous post.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    HYUFD said:

    Scots also back keeping the monarchy 47% to 35%, outside of Scotland support for the monarchy strongest in the South at 71% beyond London and lowest in London at 51%.

    78% of Leave voters want to keep the monarchy compared to 60% of Remainers who are monarchists

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/c2lzp15u60/TheTimes_RoyalFamily_Results_220912.pdf

    Voters in Scotland, please, unless you are a Racefinder General.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Didn’t he affirm some oath about defending the Church of Scotland?
    So he did, on checking. Maybe when he was up here anyway.

    https://www.royal.uk/his-majesty-kings-oath-relating-security-church-scotland
    Lots of excitement on twitter that this was some affirmation of (a minimal) Scottish sovereignty, but afaics it was mostly about confirming that the Church of Scotland has ascendancy over the Papists. Am I misreading it?
    It's simply fulfilling a condition of the Act of Union.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    That is down from 75% 10 years ago, and at a time of high emotion. It'll be sub 50 in 10 years time.
    There is a danger that it could unravel if they don't move with the times, abolish a lot of the rigmarole and bowing ( nobody should bow to another)and above all be seen to be paying taxes

    If they recognise these dangers then they should survive, but need to make sure they are not taking the public for granted at anytime
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    edited September 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unambiguously that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland.
    It isn't hers to do anything with, is it?
    It is. Commissioners for the Keeping of the Regalia.
    Ah, fair enough. Her and a few friends, anyway.

    Is the current one even the original? It was out of sight for quite a while, after all.

    Just a bit of stone from the Annaty Burn anyway, innit? It isn't from anywhere exotic.
    Put it this way, if it's a black sculptured stone from Ireland/the West, it's a bloody odd one. Its lithology is inconsistent with Dunstaffnage, but consistent with stone from the district, and most of all with the Perth area. Which, interpreted, means Edward Longshanks just grabbed the nearest lump with a handle on it, on top of the Abbey cesspit, when he needed to foist something on his homies back in London.

    Though I don't think it's such a bad reminder of some of the key responsibilityes of government - to keep the utilities running.

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BLCmAwAAQBAJ&pg=RA1-PA27&lpg=RA1-PA27&dq=petrology+stone+scone&source=bl&ots=xAVYgqDL5g&sig=ACfU3U021iXMwS28kJx_QCFLfv7xdEAkHg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiH77iTiJL6AhVTe8AKHceDAFUQ6AF6BAgbEAM#v=onepage&q=petrology stone scone&f=false
  • Options
    Well now.

    The FBI has warned Twitter it may have at least one Chinese agent on its payroll, according to Sen. Chuck Grassley, summarizing previously undisclosed details of an allegation by Twitter whistleblower Peiter “Mudge” Zatko against his former employer.

    A previously reported version of Zatko’s whistleblower disclosure — submitted to authorities in July and first reported by CNN and The Washington Post in August — indicated that the US government had provided Twitter with specific information that at least one of its employees, perhaps more, may be working for a foreign intelligence agency.

    But that version of the disclosure did not identify which country the suspected agent may have been affiliated with.


    https://edition.cnn.com/tech/live-news/peiter-zatko-hearing-twitter-privacy-security-09-13-2022/h_e71d7eb2bf3a99020ecb46eda3916a22
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,934
    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    Interesting stats. I am something of a monarchy-sceptic, but nonetheless feel the change is not really worth the hassle. I do think they should be taxed in the same way any other ordinary billionaire is though.
    The interesting question that would reveal is - how much is your average billionaire on the street actually taxed, when it comes to family trusts? A very sensitive issue. Perhaps the RF should take one for their income class.
    Very little I should think.

    The thing about IHT is that it's only expensive houses, bank accounts, and quoted shares that are taxed at 40%.

    Everything else is either untaxed, or taxed at a much lower level. That includes country houses that are open to the public, for at least 25 days a year, heritage assets, business property, farmland, woodland and unit trusts.
    I believe the Duke of Westminster paid virtually nothing when he inherited his £9bn estate. (It's held in trust and makes extensive use of tax breaks to minimise tax liabilities)

  • Options

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    That is down from 75% 10 years ago, and at a time of high emotion. It'll be sub 50 in 10 years time.
    There is a danger that it could unravel if they don't move with the times, abolish a lot of the rigmarole and bowing ( nobody should bow to another)and above all be seen to be paying taxes

    If they recognise these dangers then they should survive, but need to make sure they are not taking the public for granted at anytime
    I quite like a bit of bowing. Germans in particular nod their heads as they shake hands in mutual respect, which is really quite pleasant. Thankfully most of them have dispensed with the heel clicking and the funny Roman salute though.
  • Options
    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
    I really cannot see how doing so could possibly be a good idea, for the cause of Scottish independence, for the cause of republicanism, for the continuing legend of the Stone and therefore its pulling power as a tourism attraction, even for Russia (if that's your bag). It's an all round 360 degree shit idea. Do you have any arguments in its favour?
  • Options
    MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    Well now.

    The FBI has warned Twitter it may have at least one Chinese agent on its payroll, according to Sen. Chuck Grassley, summarizing previously undisclosed details of an allegation by Twitter whistleblower Peiter “Mudge” Zatko against his former employer.

    A previously reported version of Zatko’s whistleblower disclosure — submitted to authorities in July and first reported by CNN and The Washington Post in August — indicated that the US government had provided Twitter with specific information that at least one of its employees, perhaps more, may be working for a foreign intelligence agency.

    But that version of the disclosure did not identify which country the suspected agent may have been affiliated with.


    https://edition.cnn.com/tech/live-news/peiter-zatko-hearing-twitter-privacy-security-09-13-2022/h_e71d7eb2bf3a99020ecb46eda3916a22


    The conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,913

    Well now.

    The FBI has warned Twitter it may have at least one Chinese agent on its payroll, according to Sen. Chuck Grassley, summarizing previously undisclosed details of an allegation by Twitter whistleblower Peiter “Mudge” Zatko against his former employer.

    A previously reported version of Zatko’s whistleblower disclosure — submitted to authorities in July and first reported by CNN and The Washington Post in August — indicated that the US government had provided Twitter with specific information that at least one of its employees, perhaps more, may be working for a foreign intelligence agency.

    But that version of the disclosure did not identify which country the suspected agent may have been affiliated with.


    https://edition.cnn.com/tech/live-news/peiter-zatko-hearing-twitter-privacy-security-09-13-2022/h_e71d7eb2bf3a99020ecb46eda3916a22

    Stunningly unexpected news. The CCP just don't seem the type to infiltrate everything
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Well now.

    The FBI has warned Twitter it may have at least one Chinese agent on its payroll, according to Sen. Chuck Grassley, summarizing previously undisclosed details of an allegation by Twitter whistleblower Peiter “Mudge” Zatko against his former employer.

    A previously reported version of Zatko’s whistleblower disclosure — submitted to authorities in July and first reported by CNN and The Washington Post in August — indicated that the US government had provided Twitter with specific information that at least one of its employees, perhaps more, may be working for a foreign intelligence agency.

    But that version of the disclosure did not identify which country the suspected agent may have been affiliated with.


    https://edition.cnn.com/tech/live-news/peiter-zatko-hearing-twitter-privacy-security-09-13-2022/h_e71d7eb2bf3a99020ecb46eda3916a22

    Awful grammar.

    Unless of course CNN really do mean the FBI have informed Twitter that there's a Chinese agent working for the FBI.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,627
    rcs1000 said:

    @KyivIndependent
    ⚡️Ukrainian intelligence: Russian occupiers begin leaving Crimea, southern Ukraine with their families.

    An “urgent evacuation” of Russian proxies, intelligence officers, and military commanders is taking place, the Main Intelligence Directorate said.


    https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1569659989417152515

    Russia fleeing Crimea?

    If true (and that's a big "if"), it's massive.

    Hard to believe really. With all the success this week the Ukrainians have lots of territory to reclaim just to get close to Crimea. And that's not an 'allied republic', its Ris6sian soil following 'lawful' referendum.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,456
    "Peter Hitchens
    @ClarkeMicah

    In France it is *illegal* for traders to refuse cash payments in lawful currency. Article 642-3 of the French penal code states that traders cannot “refuse cash payments for the settling of accounts,” and they can be fined up to €150 for doing so. We should copy this .
    5:08 PM · Sep 12, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1569357341484613633
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scots also back keeping the monarchy 47% to 35%, outside of Scotland support for the monarchy strongest in the South at 71% beyond London and lowest in London at 51%.

    78% of Leave voters want to keep the monarchy compared to 60% of Remainers who are monarchists

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/c2lzp15u60/TheTimes_RoyalFamily_Results_220912.pdf

    Voters in Scotland, please, unless you are a Racefinder General.
    Are there any subsamples for the Picts?
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,652
    edited September 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Hitchens
    @ClarkeMicah

    In France it is *illegal* for traders to refuse cash payments in lawful currency. Article 642-3 of the French penal code states that traders cannot “refuse cash payments for the settling of accounts,” and they can be fined up to €150 for doing so. We should copy this .
    5:08 PM · Sep 12, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1569357341484613633

    We absolutely should not.

    If traders don't want the security risk of carrying or accepting cash then that should be their prerogative. Take your business elsewhere if you're not happy with that.

    Why do people like Hitchens want a big state to micromanage their lives for them? Let people choose what they want to do or accept.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
    I really cannot see how doing so could possibly be a good idea, for the cause of Scottish independence, for the cause of republicanism, for the continuing legend of the Stone and therefore its pulling power as a tourism attraction, even for Russia (if that's your bag). It's an all round 360 degree shit idea. Do you have any arguments in its favour?
    Don't worry, HYUFD will go collect it, in a tank..... 😀
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Hitchens
    @ClarkeMicah

    In France it is *illegal* for traders to refuse cash payments in lawful currency. Article 642-3 of the French penal code states that traders cannot “refuse cash payments for the settling of accounts,” and they can be fined up to €150 for doing so. We should copy this .
    5:08 PM · Sep 12, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1569357341484613633

    If the French do it then we definitely shouldn’t.
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Hitchens
    @ClarkeMicah

    In France it is *illegal* for traders to refuse cash payments in lawful currency. Article 642-3 of the French penal code states that traders cannot “refuse cash payments for the settling of accounts,” and they can be fined up to €150 for doing so. We should copy this .
    5:08 PM · Sep 12, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1569357341484613633

    Interesting that Peter Hitchens is in favour of issuing fines in Euros.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
    I really cannot see how doing so could possibly be a good idea, for the cause of Scottish independence, for the cause of republicanism, for the continuing legend of the Stone and therefore its pulling power as a tourism attraction, even for Russia (if that's your bag). It's an all round 360 degree shit idea. Do you have any arguments in its favour?
    It's already been announced it's going back to Westminster Abbey.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62875378

    I do not see how Sturgeon can have any say in the matter. Coronations are constitutional issues and outside her remit. And the SG doesn't own the Stone, although they do apparently manage it.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
    I really cannot see how doing so could possibly be a good idea, for the cause of Scottish independence, for the cause of republicanism, for the continuing legend of the Stone and therefore its pulling power as a tourism attraction, even for Russia (if that's your bag). It's an all round 360 degree shit idea. Do you have any arguments in its favour?
    It#s not even An Lia Fàil anyway, so nobody gives a monkey. Any more than its return by the Tories saved the Tories in Scotland (I can remember the booing from the crowds as Mr Forsyth walked behind it from Holyroodhouse to the High Kirk).

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12029854.apathy-sets-the-tone-of-destiny/
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,456
    edited September 2022
    Thousands of guests staying at Center Parcs holiday villages will have to leave the site for 24 hours next Monday.

    If people are hundreds of miles from home what are they supposed to do?

    https://twitter.com/MetroUK/status/1569672167268179974

    "Metro
    @MetroUK
    Center Parcs has been inundated with complaints after announcing it will close UK sites on the day of the Queen’s funeral - with holidaymakers told to leave their sites."
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    edited September 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
    I really cannot see how doing so could possibly be a good idea, for the cause of Scottish independence, for the cause of republicanism, for the continuing legend of the Stone and therefore its pulling power as a tourism attraction, even for Russia (if that's your bag). It's an all round 360 degree shit idea. Do you have any arguments in its favour?
    It's already been announced it's going back to Westminster Abbey.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62875378

    I do not see how Sturgeon can have any say in the matter. Coronations are constitutional issues and outside her remit. And the SG doesn't own the Stone, although they do apparently manage it.
    She does. See my post. It gives her full authority*, together wuith the Keeper of the Records, who is her subordinate anyway.

    Edit: *under the Crown, presumably, but she's not going to say no. The SNP isn't a republican party, despote the number of PB Tories convinced it is.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,884
    edited September 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unambiguously that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland.
    It isn't hers to do anything with, is it?
    It is. Commissioners for the Keeping of the Regalia.
    Ah, fair enough. Her and a few friends, anyway.

    Is the current one even the original? It was out of sight for quite a while, after all.

    Just a bit of stone from the Annaty Burn anyway, innit? It isn't from anywhere exotic.
    Put it this way, if it's a black sculptured stone from Ireland/the West, it's a bloody odd one. Its lithology is inconsistent with Dunstaffnage, but consistent with stone from the district, and most of all with the Perth area. Which, interpreted, means Edward Longshanks just grabbed the nearest lump with a handle on it, on top of the Abbey cesspit, when he needed to foist something on his homies back in London.

    Though I don't think it's such a bad reminder of some of the key responsibilityes of government - to keep the utilities running.

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BLCmAwAAQBAJ&pg=RA1-PA27&lpg=RA1-PA27&dq=petrology+stone+scone&source=bl&ots=xAVYgqDL5g&sig=ACfU3U021iXMwS28kJx_QCFLfv7xdEAkHg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiH77iTiJL6AhVTe8AKHceDAFUQ6AF6BAgbEAM#v=onepage&q=petrology stone scone&f=false
    Yes, I was always told it was just a rock from somewhere local to Scone Palace, and probably from somewhere near to what is now Quarrymill Park.

    Did someone stash the original? Perhaps this is the third one (after the second was nicked in the 50s and allegedly 'returned').
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Hitchens
    @ClarkeMicah

    In France it is *illegal* for traders to refuse cash payments in lawful currency. Article 642-3 of the French penal code states that traders cannot “refuse cash payments for the settling of accounts,” and they can be fined up to €150 for doing so. We should copy this .
    5:08 PM · Sep 12, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1569357341484613633

    If the French do it then we definitely shouldn’t.
    Father Ted:

    American Priest: You know what I'd do with four hundred dollars? I'd wipe my ass with four hundred dollars!

    Father Ted: Would it still be legal tender?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    That is down from 75% 10 years ago, and at a time of high emotion. It'll be sub 50 in 10 years time.
    In 2012 22% thought Briton would be better off without a monarchy, actually slightly higher than today's poll

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/may/24/queen-diamond-jubilee-record-support
  • Options
    MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    Well now.

    The FBI has warned Twitter it may have at least one Chinese agent on its payroll, according to Sen. Chuck Grassley, summarizing previously undisclosed details of an allegation by Twitter whistleblower Peiter “Mudge” Zatko against his former employer.

    A previously reported version of Zatko’s whistleblower disclosure — submitted to authorities in July and first reported by CNN and The Washington Post in August — indicated that the US government had provided Twitter with specific information that at least one of its employees, perhaps more, may be working for a foreign intelligence agency.

    But that version of the disclosure did not identify which country the suspected agent may have been affiliated with.


    https://edition.cnn.com/tech/live-news/peiter-zatko-hearing-twitter-privacy-security-09-13-2022/h_e71d7eb2bf3a99020ecb46eda3916a22

    Stunningly unexpected news. The CCP just don't seem the type to infiltrate everything

    Twitter banned Trump.

    Was that decision influenced by the CCP...???
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,801
    HYUFD said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Italy:

    The election wends on, it doesn't feel from this distance like it has caught great light or hit an overriding theme, but has been a little under the surface, not least because the ongoing, now caretaker, Draghi government has continued with its major work, particularly the National Recovery and Resilience Plan (basically COVID recovery and energy security).

    In as much as anything has happened, PD, the main centre-left partner, has lost a little polling ground, primarily to M5S, where Conte has had a decent campaign and is now edging Lega.

    Aggregate polling around:
    Right 46, Centre-left 28, M5S 13, Centre 7

    That still.points to a substantial right majority of 60%+ of seats in both houses.

    Some leader confidence net ratings:

    Draghi: +10
    Meloni: -20
    Conte: -21 (also improving)
    Salvini: -28
    Berlusconi: -30
    Letta: -38
    Renzi: -60

    Broadly, nobody that popular, but right politicians beat centre-left beat Centre, beat extremes.
    And Meloni still on course to become the first elected Nationalist right and ex Fascist party PM or President of a Western European nation post WW2
    Asides from the natural fear of a centre-left man (a fear Letta is banging on about with little cut through), I'm interested in how this will pan out. Meloni isn't a facsimile of Le Pen, and I'm not sure the mix of mainstream state reducing ideological right and populist flag waving migrant deterring we will get. (Some kind of naval blockade seems a likelihood and again horror / interest to see what occurs).

    Someone said on here a few weeks back that the old AN leader Fini did more than anyone to open the door for ex-Fascist mainstream conversions and it rings true to me - he was
    always the still point in the competitive clownfest that Berlusconi's Forza and Bossi's
    original Lega Nord (tbf, the latter won), and could command respect beyond his own
    fringe. And perhaps I reflect Fini a little onto Meloni, even as she bangs the populist drum more than he tended to do (and she's not Salvini).

    But the clown fest dynamic remains and I'll be watching how comfortable FdI and Lega co-exist, especially on Ukraine/Russia where their policies are polar opposites. Lega should hold balance of power and, even if longer-term the alliance is stable, Lega could see opportunity in opposition at some juncture
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Hitchens
    @ClarkeMicah

    In France it is *illegal* for traders to refuse cash payments in lawful currency. Article 642-3 of the French penal code states that traders cannot “refuse cash payments for the settling of accounts,” and they can be fined up to €150 for doing so. We should copy this .
    5:08 PM · Sep 12, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1569357341484613633

    We absolutely should not.

    If traders don't want the security risk of carrying or accepting cash then that should be their prerogative. Take your business elsewhere if you're not happy with that.

    Why do people like Hitchens want a big state to micromanage their lives for them? Let people choose what they want to do or accept.
    You choose to drive everywhere. Lots of people can't, so they are stuck if they are somewehre miles from another supplier.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unambiguously that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland.
    It isn't hers to do anything with, is it?
    It is. Commissioners for the Keeping of the Regalia.
    Ah, fair enough. Her and a few friends, anyway.

    Is the current one even the original? It was out of sight for quite a while, after all.

    Just a bit of stone from the Annaty Burn anyway, innit? It isn't from anywhere exotic.
    Put it this way, if it's a black sculptured stone from Ireland/the West, it's a bloody odd one. Its lithology is inconsistent with Dunstaffnage, but consistent with stone from the district, and most of all with the Perth area. Which, interpreted, means Edward Longshanks just grabbed the nearest lump with a handle on it, on top of the Abbey cesspit, when he needed to foist something on his homies back in London.

    Though I don't think it's such a bad reminder of some of the key responsibilityes of government - to keep the utilities running.

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BLCmAwAAQBAJ&pg=RA1-PA27&lpg=RA1-PA27&dq=petrology+stone+scone&source=bl&ots=xAVYgqDL5g&sig=ACfU3U021iXMwS28kJx_QCFLfv7xdEAkHg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiH77iTiJL6AhVTe8AKHceDAFUQ6AF6BAgbEAM#v=onepage&q=petrology stone scone&f=false
    Yes, I was always told it was just a rock from somewhere local to Scone Palace, and probably from somewhere near to what is now Quarrymill Park.

    Did someone stash the original? Perhaps this is the third one (after the second was nicked in the 50s and allegedly 'returned').
    What would you do with Longshanks and his nutters approaching? Leave it out?
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,913
    Andy_JS said:

    Thousands of guests staying at Center Parcs holiday villages will have to leave the site for 24 hours next Monday.

    If people are hundreds of miles from home what are they supposed to do?

    https://twitter.com/MetroUK/status/1569672167268179974

    "Metro
    @MetroUK
    Center Parcs has been inundated with complaints after announcing it will close UK sites on the day of the Queen’s funeral - with holidaymakers told to leave their sites."

    Expensive and epically shit holiday experience gets even worse.
  • Options

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    That is down from 75% 10 years ago, and at a time of high emotion. It'll be sub 50 in 10 years time.
    There is a danger that it could unravel if they don't move with the times, abolish a lot of the rigmarole and bowing ( nobody should bow to another)and above all be seen to be paying taxes

    If they recognise these dangers then they should survive, but need to make sure they are not taking the public for granted at anytime
    I quite like a bit of bowing. Germans in particular nod their heads as they shake hands in mutual respect, which is really quite pleasant. Thankfully most of them have dispensed with the heel clicking and the funny Roman salute though.
    It is lovely in Japan and showing respect is fine, but bowing to a monarch is subjugation and needs to go
  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,767
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @KyivIndependent
    ⚡️Ukrainian intelligence: Russian occupiers begin leaving Crimea, southern Ukraine with their families.

    An “urgent evacuation” of Russian proxies, intelligence officers, and military commanders is taking place, the Main Intelligence Directorate said.


    https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1569659989417152515

    Russia fleeing Crimea?

    If true (and that's a big "if"), it's massive.

    If the Kherson garrison surrenders (or kills itself in red-on-red fights, as reported) then Crimea is wide open. They may as well escape before HIMARS brings down the Kerch bridge leaving them trapped.

    Not sure that is as easy as it sounds. The Crimean isthmus is quite narrow and marshy, and the Kerch bridge out of HIMARS range.

    IIRC, securing the irrigation canal from the Dnieper to the water hungry Crimean agricultural areas was one of the strategic aims of the invasion. regaining control of that gives Ukraine a stranglehold on the region.
  • Options
    DynamoDynamo Posts: 651

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
    I really cannot see how doing so could possibly be a good idea, for the cause of Scottish independence, for the cause of republicanism, for the continuing legend of the Stone and therefore its pulling power as a tourism attraction, even for Russia (if that's your bag). It's an all round 360 degree shit idea. Do you have any arguments in its favour?
    Have you ever actually thought about symbolism in politics? Clue: monarchist regimes use a lot of it.

    Do you think running off with a monarch's crown before he gets crowned with it on his big day would be beneficial or harmful for the message he's trying to sell?

    I hope one or more of India, Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan demand the Koh-i-Noor diamond back too.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters now back the monarchy 64% to 21%.

    Even 18 to 24s want to keep the monarchy 40% to 29% as do Labour voters 49% to 33%.

    87% of Tory voters and 67% of LDs also monarchists

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1569698859831508995?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA
    https://twitter.com/charliemansell/status/1569699932600422400?s=20&t=8kGcup3GipR6U8-IySDArA

    That is down from 75% 10 years ago, and at a time of high emotion. It'll be sub 50 in 10 years time.
    There is a danger that it could unravel if they don't move with the times, abolish a lot of the rigmarole and bowing ( nobody should bow to another)and above all be seen to be paying taxes

    If they recognise these dangers then they should survive, but need to make sure they are not taking the public for granted at anytime
    I quite like a bit of bowing. Germans in particular nod their heads as they shake hands in mutual respect, which is really quite pleasant. Thankfully most of them have dispensed with the heel clicking and the funny Roman salute though.
    It is lovely in Japan and showing respect is fine, but bowing to a monarch is subjugation and needs to go
    Careful, some'll be baying on PB for you to have a one-way trip to Marble Arch. Like theyt have for others. Much to my disgust.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,652
    edited September 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Hitchens
    @ClarkeMicah

    In France it is *illegal* for traders to refuse cash payments in lawful currency. Article 642-3 of the French penal code states that traders cannot “refuse cash payments for the settling of accounts,” and they can be fined up to €150 for doing so. We should copy this .
    5:08 PM · Sep 12, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1569357341484613633

    We absolutely should not.

    If traders don't want the security risk of carrying or accepting cash then that should be their prerogative. Take your business elsewhere if you're not happy with that.

    Why do people like Hitchens want a big state to micromanage their lives for them? Let people choose what they want to do or accept.
    You choose to drive everywhere. Lots of people can't, so they are stuck if they are somewehre miles from another supplier.
    So what?

    Where you choose to shop, live and spend your money is entirely your choice. Whether you choose to learn to drive or not is your choice. Even public transport works contactless now too, anyway.

    Cash is a security risk that can lead to armed robberies. If someone doesn't want to take that risk, that is their choice, there's no law against that and nor should there be.

    If you're not happy with that, its up to you to change, not others to change for you.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,224

    Another Eric Berger hit-piece ...

    He's gone totally native since he got all those lovely contacts for his SpaceX book.
    That's what people said when he predicted the SLS launch date, years back. Which turned out to be optimistic.

    Or predicted that Vulcan would slip to the right repeatedly. Which turned out to be exactly right as well.

    His track record means he is the top space reporter, now.

    The maths is fairly simple - ULA, based on track record, isn't going to integrate new engines to a new booster, doing the testing and launch in 3 months.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,913
    MISTY said:

    Well now.

    The FBI has warned Twitter it may have at least one Chinese agent on its payroll, according to Sen. Chuck Grassley, summarizing previously undisclosed details of an allegation by Twitter whistleblower Peiter “Mudge” Zatko against his former employer.

    A previously reported version of Zatko’s whistleblower disclosure — submitted to authorities in July and first reported by CNN and The Washington Post in August — indicated that the US government had provided Twitter with specific information that at least one of its employees, perhaps more, may be working for a foreign intelligence agency.

    But that version of the disclosure did not identify which country the suspected agent may have been affiliated with.


    https://edition.cnn.com/tech/live-news/peiter-zatko-hearing-twitter-privacy-security-09-13-2022/h_e71d7eb2bf3a99020ecb46eda3916a22

    Stunningly unexpected news. The CCP just don't seem the type to infiltrate everything

    Twitter banned Trump.

    Was that decision influenced by the CCP...???
    I suspect that may well be an angle taken.
    Althiugh i understand the Chinese communist spy left twitter complaining it was 'wayyyyyyy too lefty' for him
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    edited September 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Hitchens
    @ClarkeMicah

    In France it is *illegal* for traders to refuse cash payments in lawful currency. Article 642-3 of the French penal code states that traders cannot “refuse cash payments for the settling of accounts,” and they can be fined up to €150 for doing so. We should copy this .
    5:08 PM · Sep 12, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1569357341484613633

    We absolutely should not.

    If traders don't want the security risk of carrying or accepting cash then that should be their prerogative. Take your business elsewhere if you're not happy with that.

    Why do people like Hitchens want a big state to micromanage their lives for them? Let people choose what they want to do or accept.
    You choose to drive everywhere. Lots of people can't, so they are stuck if they are somewehre miles from another supplier.
    So what?

    Where you choose to shop, live and spend your money is entirely your choice. Whether you choose to learn to drive or not is your choice.

    Cash is a security risk that can lead to armed robberies. If someone doesn't want to take that risk, that is their choice, there's no law against that and nor should there be.

    If you're not happy with that, its up to you to change, not others to change for you.
    "Choice" is a libertarian shibboleth. But what will you say when you are 67, your licence is taken away or you admit you can't drive safely, and you're living out in the sticks to try and help your children and vice versa?
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Hitchens
    @ClarkeMicah

    In France it is *illegal* for traders to refuse cash payments in lawful currency. Article 642-3 of the French penal code states that traders cannot “refuse cash payments for the settling of accounts,” and they can be fined up to €150 for doing so. We should copy this .
    5:08 PM · Sep 12, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1569357341484613633

    We absolutely should not.

    If traders don't want the security risk of carrying or accepting cash then that should be their prerogative. Take your business elsewhere if you're not happy with that.

    Why do people like Hitchens want a big state to micromanage their lives for them? Let people choose what they want to do or accept.
    You choose to drive everywhere. Lots of people can't, so they are stuck if they are somewehre miles from another supplier.
    So what?

    Where you choose to shop, live and spend your money is entirely your choice. Whether you choose to learn to drive or not is your choice.

    Cash is a security risk that can lead to armed robberies. If someone doesn't want to take that risk, that is their choice, there's no law against that and nor should there be.

    If you're not happy with that, its up to you to change, not others to change for you.
    "Choice" is a libertarian shibboleth. But what will you say when you are 67, your licence is taken away or you admit you can't drive safely, and you're living out in the sticks to try and help your children and vice versa?
    What about it?

    Not a single part of that justifies compelling others to put themselves at risk of burglary or robbery.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scots also back keeping the monarchy 47% to 35%, outside of Scotland support for the monarchy strongest in the South at 71% beyond London and lowest in London at 51%.

    78% of Leave voters want to keep the monarchy compared to 60% of Remainers who are monarchists

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/c2lzp15u60/TheTimes_RoyalFamily_Results_220912.pdf

    Voters in Scotland, please, unless you are a Racefinder General.
    Are there any subsamples for the Picts?
    How would I know? Inquiries to the RG, not me.
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited September 2022
    Dynamo said:

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
    I really cannot see how doing so could possibly be a good idea, for the cause of Scottish independence, for the cause of republicanism, for the continuing legend of the Stone and therefore its pulling power as a tourism attraction, even for Russia (if that's your bag). It's an all round 360 degree shit idea. Do you have any arguments in its favour?
    Have you ever actually thought about symbolism in politics? Clue: monarchist regimes use a lot of it.

    Do you think running off with a monarch's crown before he gets crowned with it on his big day would be beneficial or harmful for the message he's trying to sell?

    I hope one or more of India, Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan demand the Koh-i-Noor diamond back too.
    What's your favourite bit of Russian symbolism ? I ask this as a largely non-rhetorical question.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
    I really cannot see how doing so could possibly be a good idea, for the cause of Scottish independence, for the cause of republicanism, for the continuing legend of the Stone and therefore its pulling power as a tourism attraction, even for Russia (if that's your bag). It's an all round 360 degree shit idea. Do you have any arguments in its favour?
    It's already been announced it's going back to Westminster Abbey.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62875378

    I do not see how Sturgeon can have any say in the matter. Coronations are constitutional issues and outside her remit. And the SG doesn't own the Stone, although they do apparently manage it.
    She does. See my post. It gives her full authority*, together wuith the Keeper of the Records, who is her subordinate anyway.

    Edit: *under the Crown, presumably, but she's not going to say no. The SNP isn't a republican party, despote the number of PB Tories convinced it is.
    As an ex officio Commissioner, she is required to keep it and produce it when required for a coronation.

    It would be somewhat overstepping her bounds to refuse to provide it!

    Not that that would bother her overmuch.
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    MISTY said:

    Leon said:

    If Crimea falls, Putin falls

    When.

    Its not that long ago that Putin apologists on this site were saying the idea of Crimea falling was laughable and not achievable.

    The curtain has really been pulled back and shown Russia in its true, wretched state.
    The thing is, that could be a cue for instability and unrest in all kinds of areas where the Russians have influence. Syria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Chechnya etc.

    Good.

    Dictatorships are the wrong kind of stability. Time to shake the kaleidoscope and see what comes up.
    I can't see those being blown up being very grateful that they have been freed from their 'wrong type of stability'. What a fatuous post.
    You're the fatuous one, but considering your affectation for Putin, its not really surprising.

    How many of those getting blown up by dictators currently in order to ensure the continuation of "stability" are grateful for the security being secured by blowing them up?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,590
    edited September 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dynamo said:

    Carnyx said:

    .

    Why does King Charles and the royal family hate the NHS?

    Hasn't he just taken a vow to defend the national religion?
    Just in Scotland?
    Didn't know we'd had a coronation with the Honours of Scotland. You may be thinking of the Proclamation. You get your (geographical) bit in Westminster Abbey, anyway.
    Can Nicola please state unequivocally that the Stone of Scone isn't leaving Scotland. C'mon - score the open goal!
    I really cannot see how doing so could possibly be a good idea, for the cause of Scottish independence, for the cause of republicanism, for the continuing legend of the Stone and therefore its pulling power as a tourism attraction, even for Russia (if that's your bag). It's an all round 360 degree shit idea. Do you have any arguments in its favour?
    It's already been announced it's going back to Westminster Abbey.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62875378

    I do not see how Sturgeon can have any say in the matter. Coronations are constitutional issues and outside her remit. And the SG doesn't own the Stone, although they do apparently manage it.
    She does. See my post. It gives her full authority*, together wuith the Keeper of the Records, who is her subordinate anyway.

    Edit: *under the Crown, presumably, but she's not going to say no. The SNP isn't a republican party, despote the number of PB Tories convinced it is.
    As an ex officio Commissioner, she is required to keep it and produce it when required for a coronation.

    It would be somewhat overstepping her bounds to refuse to provide it!

    Not that that would bother her overmuch.
    You're perhaps thinking of the Scottish Socialists, now in part SGs, in the last sentence. Definitely not SNP policy. Though some members have been republican in recent decades and still are.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    MISTY said:

    Leon said:

    If Crimea falls, Putin falls

    When.

    Its not that long ago that Putin apologists on this site were saying the idea of Crimea falling was laughable and not achievable.

    The curtain has really been pulled back and shown Russia in its true, wretched state.
    The thing is, that could be a cue for instability and unrest in all kinds of areas where the Russians have influence. Syria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Chechnya etc.

    Good.

    Dictatorships are the wrong kind of stability. Time to shake the kaleidoscope and see what comes up.
    I can't see those being blown up being very grateful that they have been freed from their 'wrong type of stability'. What a fatuous post.
    You're the fatuous one, but considering your affectation for Putin, its not really surprising.

    How many of those getting blown up by dictators currently in order to ensure the continuation of "stability" are grateful for the security being secured by blowing them up?
    I don't know, but I suspect the number is inflated.
This discussion has been closed.