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If young voters actually voted then be afraid – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    AlistairM said:

    Chilling, I expect the free speech warriors to be defending this woman and having a go at the rozzers.

    A woman was arrested holding an anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh today, before the Queen’s cortege arrived in the city.

    She was detained outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the monarch’s coffin is due to be held from tomorrow after spending the night at the Palace of
    Holyroodhouse.

    Moments before the proclamation of Charles III as new king this afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross.

    She held a sign saying ‘f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy’.


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/11/woman-arrested-after-holding-abolish-monarchy-sign-in-edinburgh-17351692/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

    I believe in the monarchy. I believe in free speech. She should not have been arrested. She should be released and an apology given.
    The problem here is the doctrine of "Offending people" being an arrest able offence.

    Remember the comedian who was threatened with arrest for a Bollocks to Blair T-shirt worn outside Downing Street?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chilling, I expect the free speech warriors to be defending this woman and having a go at the rozzers.

    A woman was arrested holding an anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh today, before the Queen’s cortege arrived in the city.

    She was detained outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the monarch’s coffin is due to be held from tomorrow after spending the night at the Palace of
    Holyroodhouse.

    Moments before the proclamation of Charles III as new king this afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross.

    She held a sign saying ‘f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy’.


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/11/woman-arrested-after-holding-abolish-monarchy-sign-in-edinburgh-17351692/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

    They should count themselves lucky, 200 years ago they would have been hanged or beheaded for disrupting the accession process of our new monarch
    In 1822?!?
    Yes, capital punishment was still the punishment for treason then
    But not in Scots law, it wasn't (very famously when English law was illegally applied in 1820).
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44726376
    Belatedly imposed on Scotland in 1848. Not legal in 1822 which is what you were talki9ng about.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    One of my issues with republicanism is that on average the best countries are constitutional monarchies.

    Path dependency perhaps, rather than causation, but, still.

    If we have to go republic than of course it should one of those post-Anglo constitutions like Ireland or Germany with a respected non-entity as president.

    The presidencies of which are as boring as fuck, and no-one cares about.

    There's no advantage to flipping to a republic for the UK except that it might help a small 'intellectual' minority feel philosophically consistent.
    Just in case you were not sure of my status on this I am pro Charles and the monarchy and see no merit in the UK becoming a republic

    However, I do expect some commonwealth countries to seek Republican status
    I liked and respected Her Majesty, and I hope Charles, and then William, will continue her good work.

    A strong monarchy requires a good and strong monarch. The danger will come if (or perhaps I should say when) a Prince Andrew type character ascends.
    It seems to me that the ONLY think that sunk Andrew, was that one photograph. If Charles "I married a 19 year old when I was 32, nothing to see here, move right along" III had, counterfactually, behaved like his brother, the difference is the photo would not have been taken, or would have been recovered along with all negatives.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    There are only approx 7000 votes separating the blocs.

    200,000 foreign votes will not be added to count until Wednesday, so Swedes in eg London might decide the outcome!! 😉

    OR the Swedes of Ballard, Seattle. Home of the Northwest Nordic Heritage Museum, and a must-see-and-be-seen stop for Scandinavian royals.

    BTW, Ballard is only place in the world (I think) where you may encounter anti-Swedish sentiment.

    Among old Norskis! Who aren't exactly crazy about Finns and Danes either. Not sure of views re: Danes, Icelanders, etc, but reckon skeptical covers it.
    Anti-Swedish sentiment is rife in Russia. They go ballistic if anyone points out that the Rus (vikings) established both the Ukrainian and Russian states (Rus-ia). Not to mention Poltava etc. And that we like gays and women. They despise us.

    Anti-Swedish sentiment also a minor feature in Finnish society. Resentment that all Finnish children must study Swedish.

    I'm sure I recall a piece on modern Finland having a bit of denial about its long history with and influence from Sweden. Fair comment?
    Not sure I understand your question. Finland didn’t have a “long history with and influence from Sweden”, it was just part of Sweden. It was simply eastern Sweden. For 8 centuries.
    Yes, that was the point of the article (I cannot find it though), saying that modern Finland downplayed that status, as if it was an embarrassing thing they did not want to mention.
    Haven’t read the article of course, but

    Swedish speaking Finns are a embedded part of the polity, with their own schools and political parties.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    AlistairM said:

    Chilling, I expect the free speech warriors to be defending this woman and having a go at the rozzers.

    A woman was arrested holding an anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh today, before the Queen’s cortege arrived in the city.

    She was detained outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the monarch’s coffin is due to be held from tomorrow after spending the night at the Palace of
    Holyroodhouse.

    Moments before the proclamation of Charles III as new king this afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross.

    She held a sign saying ‘f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy’.


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/11/woman-arrested-after-holding-abolish-monarchy-sign-in-edinburgh-17351692/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

    I believe in the monarchy. I believe in free speech. She should not have been arrested. She should be released and an apology given.
    The problem here is the doctrine of "Offending people" being an arrest able offence.

    Remember the comedian who was threatened with arrest for a Bollocks to Blair T-shirt worn outside Downing Street?
    Different jurisdiction, not sure if it carries over.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    Will Ukraine join the Commonwealth?

    I was surprised to learn that Gabon and Togo joined *this year*.

    Why surprised? What is the downside of joining?
    What, really, is the upside of joining?
    I couldn’t honestly say.
    Nothing has really happened in a CHOGM since apartheid days.
    Get to vote in UK elections if living here.

    Someone from Gabon or Togo could get off a plane and vote in the GE a few weeks later.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    edited September 2022

    Will Ukraine join the Commonwealth?

    I was surprised to learn that Gabon and Togo joined *this year*.

    Rwanda, Mozambique and Cameroon are also recently joined members as well, in spite of none of them having been in the British Empire (Belgian, Portuguese and French.)
    Bits of Cameroon were.
    British Cameroons.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    In an Indian restaurant in a drizzly, rundown Faro on the coast. After the beauty of the Alentejo, and a week of “hmm, that pleasant Portuguese food is awfully like the last pleasant Portuguese food I had yesterday, right down to the nice-ish, OK-ish bean soup”, the prospect of a decent curry is FRAZZLING my Pleasure Circuits

    This is the same experience I had in Italy two weeks ago. The food is often pleasant and generally what you expect. ALWAYS

    Faro is a dump.
    It REALLY is. Noticed it last year and it’s got worse. Drugs, poverty, graffiti. A lot of gangs. Illegal migrant issues

    It look little better than a similar town in say Tunis or CaSA Blanca. Needs sorting

    The weird thing is a lot of Portugal is looking somewhat better. Money coming in from rich northern Europeans seeking cheapish sun

    Inner Faro might be a good place to buy property now. You could get it cheap. My bet is that it will gentrify
    Wouldn't disagree with any of that: Portugal is definitely on the up... But Faro is the Hastings of the Portuguese coast.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Will Ukraine join the Commonwealth?

    I was surprised to learn that Gabon and Togo joined *this year*.

    Why surprised? What is the downside of joining?
    What, really, is the upside of joining?
    I couldn’t honestly say.
    Nothing has really happened in a CHOGM since apartheid days.
    Nations don't join without an upside so there must be one, though maybe not the same for all the joiners.

    A further chance to hobnob with some larger nations and connected allies? To signal an openness to more English speaking markets?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Will Ukraine join the Commonwealth?

    I was surprised to learn that Gabon and Togo joined *this year*.

    Why surprised? What is the downside of joining?
    What, really, is the upside of joining?
    I couldn’t honestly say.
    Nothing has really happened in a CHOGM since apartheid days.
    Gabon and Togo obviously thought there was an upside. Perhaps there are funding schemes, exchanges etc. And don’t forget the glorious Commonwealth Games! The Friendly Games.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Will Ukraine join the Commonwealth?

    I was surprised to learn that Gabon and Togo joined *this year*.

    Rwanda, Mozambique and Cameroon are also recently joined members as well, in spite of none of them having been in the British Empire (Belgian, Portuguese and French.)
    To be pedantic, I think that a portion of Cameroon, was ones part of the empire, and for that matter for a brief time a small portion of modern day Mozambique, that has ones been part of German west Africa, and was incorporated as as Tanganyika in to the British Empire after WW1, was later transfer to Portugal and became part of Mozambique,

    Both rather tenuis, but this is PB
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876

    HYUFD said:

    “The Moderates have played straight into the hands of the Sweden Democrats.”

    On current figures the right of centre coalition including the Sweden Democrats but excluding the Centre Party will have more votes and seats combined than the centre right coalition in Sweden at the last election including the Centre Party but excluding the Sweden Democrats
    There is no “right of centre coalition”.

    Scandi PB experts are just as ill-informed as Jock PB experts.
    Instead of insulting us all, why don't you try to explain it ?

    Are there other possible Government permutations other than the two apparent "blocs" ? The Moderate leader seems not very keen on the Social Democrats - where does the Centre Party sit?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Will Ukraine join the Commonwealth?

    I was surprised to learn that Gabon and Togo joined *this year*.

    Why surprised? What is the downside of joining?
    What, really, is the upside of joining?
    I couldn’t honestly say.
    Nothing has really happened in a CHOGM since apartheid days.
    Gabon and Togo obviously thought there was an upside. Perhaps there are funding schemes, exchanges etc. And don’t forget the glorious Commonwealth Games! The Friendly Games.
    Without the US or China they certainly are friendlier for anyone hoping for a medal. I wouldn't be surprised if the joke suggestion others have made about that is even true!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    “The Moderates have played straight into the hands of the Sweden Democrats.”

    On current figures the right of centre coalition including the Sweden Democrats but excluding the Centre Party will have more votes and seats combined than the centre right coalition in Sweden at the last election including the Centre Party but excluding the Sweden Democrats
    There is no “right of centre coalition”.

    Scandi PB experts are just as ill-informed as Jock PB experts.
    Instead of insulting us all, why don't you try to explain it ?

    ...I've had my tussles with Stuart, but he has, hasn't he? He's mentioned many times before the 'blocs' are not formal coalitions, and so cannot be expected to fall into line as a unified group. It's presumably just a general right/left grouping by commentators.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    HYUFD said:

    Chilling, I expect the free speech warriors to be defending this woman and having a go at the rozzers.

    A woman was arrested holding an anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh today, before the Queen’s cortege arrived in the city.

    She was detained outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the monarch’s coffin is due to be held from tomorrow after spending the night at the Palace of
    Holyroodhouse.

    Moments before the proclamation of Charles III as new king this afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross.

    She held a sign saying ‘f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy’.


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/11/woman-arrested-after-holding-abolish-monarchy-sign-in-edinburgh-17351692/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

    They should count themselves lucky, 200 years ago they would have been hanged or beheaded for disrupting the accession process of our new monarch
    They really wouldn't.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited September 2022
    kle4 said:

    Will Ukraine join the Commonwealth?

    I was surprised to learn that Gabon and Togo joined *this year*.

    Why surprised? What is the downside of joining?
    What, really, is the upside of joining?
    I couldn’t honestly say.
    Nothing has really happened in a CHOGM since apartheid days.
    Nations don't join without an upside so there must be one, though maybe not the same for all the joiners.

    A further chance to hobnob with some larger nations and connected allies? To signal an openness to more English speaking markets?
    I suppose at least it provides a regular forum where you are likely to meet the leaders of UK, India, Canada, Australia, Nigeria and South Africa who are all great powers to some extent.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    Chilling, I expect the free speech warriors to be defending this woman and having a go at the rozzers.

    A woman was arrested holding an anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh today, before the Queen’s cortege arrived in the city.

    She was detained outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the monarch’s coffin is due to be held from tomorrow after spending the night at the Palace of
    Holyroodhouse.

    Moments before the proclamation of Charles III as new king this afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross.

    She held a sign saying ‘f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy’.


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/11/woman-arrested-after-holding-abolish-monarchy-sign-in-edinburgh-17351692/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

    I am surprised the crowd didn't exact their own summary justice.

    There is a time and a place for abolishionism,
    HYUFD said:

    Chilling, I expect the free speech warriors to be defending this woman and having a go at the rozzers.

    A woman was arrested holding an anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh today, before the Queen’s cortege arrived in the city.

    She was detained outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the monarch’s coffin is due to be held from tomorrow after spending the night at the Palace of
    Holyroodhouse.

    Moments before the proclamation of Charles III as new king this afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross.

    She held a sign saying ‘f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy’.


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/11/woman-arrested-after-holding-abolish-monarchy-sign-in-edinburgh-17351692/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

    They should count themselves lucky, 200 years ago they would have been hanged or beheaded for disrupting the accession process of our new monarch
    Maybe you could write to Suella and ask for restoration. I am sure she will give you a sympathetic ear. A Brexit bonus to be sure.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Interesting update on the war situation in Ukraine. Russia seems to be in all sorts of trouble in the North as the forces they have left there haven't got any equipment as they didn't take it with them when retreating.

    A little map of the situation in Northern Luhansk after the rout of the russian invaders from Kharkiv Oblast.

    Black 1 = the Oskil River frontline russia tries to establish.
    Red 2s = the russian units retreating - those fleeing from Northern Kharkiv are on exterior lines and
    1/n

    https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1569056211676299269
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    “The Moderates have played straight into the hands of the Sweden Democrats.”

    On current figures the right of centre coalition including the Sweden Democrats but excluding the Centre Party will have more votes and seats combined than the centre right coalition in Sweden at the last election including the Centre Party but excluding the Sweden Democrats
    There is no “right of centre coalition”.

    Scandi PB experts are just as ill-informed as Jock PB experts.
    There effectively is, Moderates plus Liberals plus Christian Democrats plus Sweden Democrats
    It is absolutely *not* a coalition. It is a lazy shorthand.

    SD support M

    M will not support SD

    L will not support SD

    KD, who knows?

    They are not a team.
  • BigRich said:

    Will Ukraine join the Commonwealth?

    I was surprised to learn that Gabon and Togo joined *this year*.

    Rwanda, Mozambique and Cameroon are also recently joined members as well, in spite of none of them having been in the British Empire (Belgian, Portuguese and French.)
    To be pedantic, I think that a portion of Cameroon, was ones part of the empire, and for that matter for a brief time a small portion of modern day Mozambique, that has ones been part of German west Africa, and was incorporated as as Tanganyika in to the British Empire after WW1, was later transfer to Portugal and became part of Mozambique,

    Both rather tenuis, but this is PB
    And I thank you for your pedanticism (and @dixiedean ). It means I have learnt something new today which is always a good thing :)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Carnyx said:

    AlistairM said:

    Chilling, I expect the free speech warriors to be defending this woman and having a go at the rozzers.

    A woman was arrested holding an anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh today, before the Queen’s cortege arrived in the city.

    She was detained outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the monarch’s coffin is due to be held from tomorrow after spending the night at the Palace of
    Holyroodhouse.

    Moments before the proclamation of Charles III as new king this afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross.

    She held a sign saying ‘f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy’.


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/11/woman-arrested-after-holding-abolish-monarchy-sign-in-edinburgh-17351692/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

    I believe in the monarchy. I believe in free speech. She should not have been arrested. She should be released and an apology given.
    The problem here is the doctrine of "Offending people" being an arrest able offence.

    Remember the comedian who was threatened with arrest for a Bollocks to Blair T-shirt worn outside Downing Street?
    Different jurisdiction, not sure if it carries over.
    It's a social principle. Which is taught at a number of levels - opinions that offend other people are actually harmful, according to this doctrine.

    I've seen this in across the UK.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited September 2022

    kle4 said:

    Will Ukraine join the Commonwealth?

    I was surprised to learn that Gabon and Togo joined *this year*.

    Why surprised? What is the downside of joining?
    What, really, is the upside of joining?
    I couldn’t honestly say.
    Nothing has really happened in a CHOGM since apartheid days.
    Nations don't join without an upside so there must be one, though maybe not the same for all the joiners.

    A further chance to hobnob with some larger nations and connected allies? To signal an openness to more English speaking markets?
    I suppose at least it provides a regular forum where you are likely to meet the leaders of UK, India, Canada, Australia, Nigeria and South Africa who are all great powers to some extent.
    Ye

    That’s the key draw.

    Being president or PM of a crap country gets boring after a while. They get status anxiety.

    Hosting CHOGM is a really big deal for these countries. They get to feel important.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    There are only approx 7000 votes separating the blocs.

    200,000 foreign votes will not be added to count until Wednesday, so Swedes in eg London might decide the outcome!! 😉

    OR the Swedes of Ballard, Seattle. Home of the Northwest Nordic Heritage Museum, and a must-see-and-be-seen stop for Scandinavian royals.

    BTW, Ballard is only place in the world (I think) where you may encounter anti-Swedish sentiment.

    Among old Norskis! Who aren't exactly crazy about Finns and Danes either. Not sure of views re: Danes, Icelanders, etc, but reckon skeptical covers it.
    Anti-Swedish sentiment is rife in Russia. They go ballistic if anyone points out that the Rus (vikings) established both the Ukrainian and Russian states (Rus-ia). Not to mention Poltava etc. And that we like gays and women. They despise us.

    Anti-Swedish sentiment also a minor feature in Finnish society. Resentment that all Finnish children must study Swedish.

    I'm sure I recall a piece on modern Finland having a bit of denial about its long history with and influence from Sweden. Fair comment?
    Not sure I understand your question. Finland didn’t have a “long history with and influence from Sweden”, it was just part of Sweden. It was simply eastern Sweden. For 8 centuries.
    Yes, that was the point of the article (I cannot find it though), saying that modern Finland downplayed that status, as if it was an embarrassing thing they did not want to mention.
    Well, of course! Doesn’t make it less true.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,876

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    “The Moderates have played straight into the hands of the Sweden Democrats.”

    On current figures the right of centre coalition including the Sweden Democrats but excluding the Centre Party will have more votes and seats combined than the centre right coalition in Sweden at the last election including the Centre Party but excluding the Sweden Democrats
    There is no “right of centre coalition”.

    Scandi PB experts are just as ill-informed as Jock PB experts.
    There effectively is, Moderates plus Liberals plus Christian Democrats plus Sweden Democrats
    It is absolutely *not* a coalition. It is a lazy shorthand.

    SD support M

    M will not support SD

    L will not support SD

    KD, who knows?

    They are not a team.
    On that basis, the question then becomes whether there are enough votes on a Confidence & Supply basis to keep the Social Democrats in Government as a minority.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    “The Moderates have played straight into the hands of the Sweden Democrats.”

    On current figures the right of centre coalition including the Sweden Democrats but excluding the Centre Party will have more votes and seats combined than the centre right coalition in Sweden at the last election including the Centre Party but excluding the Sweden Democrats
    There is no “right of centre coalition”.

    Scandi PB experts are just as ill-informed as Jock PB experts.
    There effectively is, Moderates plus Liberals plus Christian Democrats plus Sweden Democrats
    The difference between 'a coalition' and 'effectively a coalition' strikes me as rather significant. Effectively would still mean 'not a', since you would be conceding they are not actually one, even if you were to claim they can be treated like one.

    Put it this way - would you claim the Tories are effectively in a coalition with Reform? Before you answer, think about what your party leaders, whom you are so loyal to, would say about it.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    On showing deference: I walk a lot, and often encounter women on my walks. If they make eye contact, I give a small nod of my head to them, as one might when tipping a hat. Most women I encounter seem to like it, and show that by smiling briefly. Many then say "Good morning", or "Hello", to which I reply, by repeating their greeting.

    So when I show a little deference I am often rewarded.

    (I don't know what women's reactions would be in, for example, Manhattan. I don't know how many would even make eye contact in such places.)

    I perhaps should add that, as a slender fellow, who will turn 80 next August, I don't look particularly threatening.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    ...

    Chilling, I expect the free speech warriors to be defending this woman and having a go at the rozzers.

    A woman was arrested holding an anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh today, before the Queen’s cortege arrived in the city.

    She was detained outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the monarch’s coffin is due to be held from tomorrow after spending the night at the Palace of
    Holyroodhouse.

    Moments before the proclamation of Charles III as new king this afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross.

    She held a sign saying ‘f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy’.


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/11/woman-arrested-after-holding-abolish-monarchy-sign-in-edinburgh-17351692/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

    I am surprised the crowd didn't exact their own summary justice.

    There is a time and a place for abolishionism,
    HYUFD said:

    Chilling, I expect the free speech warriors to be defending this woman and having a go at the rozzers.

    A woman was arrested holding an anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh today, before the Queen’s cortege arrived in the city.

    She was detained outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the monarch’s coffin is due to be held from tomorrow after spending the night at the Palace of
    Holyroodhouse.

    Moments before the proclamation of Charles III as new king this afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross.

    She held a sign saying ‘f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy’.


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/11/woman-arrested-after-holding-abolish-monarchy-sign-in-edinburgh-17351692/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

    They should count themselves lucky, 200 years ago they would have been hanged or beheaded for disrupting the accession process of our new monarch
    Maybe you could write to Suella and ask for restoration. I am sure she will give you a sympathetic ear. A Brexit bonus to be sure.
    Abolitionism!
  • Sweden 2022 GE official results (easily translatable into English)

    https://resultat.val.se/val2022/prel/RD/rike
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    There are only approx 7000 votes separating the blocs.

    200,000 foreign votes will not be added to count until Wednesday, so Swedes in eg London might decide the outcome!! 😉

    OR the Swedes of Ballard, Seattle. Home of the Northwest Nordic Heritage Museum, and a must-see-and-be-seen stop for Scandinavian royals.

    BTW, Ballard is only place in the world (I think) where you may encounter anti-Swedish sentiment.

    Among old Norskis! Who aren't exactly crazy about Finns and Danes either. Not sure of views re: Danes, Icelanders, etc, but reckon skeptical covers it.
    Anti-Swedish sentiment is rife in Russia. They go ballistic if anyone points out that the Rus (vikings) established both the Ukrainian and Russian states (Rus-ia). Not to mention Poltava etc. And that we like gays and women. They despise us.

    Anti-Swedish sentiment also a minor feature in Finnish society. Resentment that all Finnish children must study Swedish.

    I'm sure I recall a piece on modern Finland having a bit of denial about its long history with and influence from Sweden. Fair comment?
    Not sure I understand your question. Finland didn’t have a “long history with and influence from Sweden”, it was just part of Sweden. It was simply eastern Sweden. For 8 centuries.
    Yes, that was the point of the article (I cannot find it though), saying that modern Finland downplayed that status, as if it was an embarrassing thing they did not want to mention.
    Haven’t read the article of course, but

    Swedish speaking Finns are a embedded part of the polity, with their own schools and political parties.
    Swedish has equal status with Finnish as the national language. Swedish-speaking Finns are just Finns, like any other.

    (They sound so cute. Like hearing the Good Old Boys from the Dukes of Hazard: loveable country bumpkins.)
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    StuartDickson - I don't know whether you have mentioned this earlier -- in which case I apologize -- but am I right to conclude that Sweden's reaction to COVID was not an important issue in this election?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    In an Indian restaurant in a drizzly, rundown Faro on the coast. After the beauty of the Alentejo, and a week of “hmm, that pleasant Portuguese food is awfully like the last pleasant Portuguese food I had yesterday, right down to the nice-ish, OK-ish bean soup”, the prospect of a decent curry is FRAZZLING my Pleasure Circuits

    This is the same experience I had in Italy two weeks ago. The food is often pleasant and generally what you expect. ALWAYS

    Faro is a dump.
    Correct. Portimão is less of a dump (but still a bit of one). Lagos is pleasant.
    I learned to fly a gyrocopter in Lagos.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    There are only approx 7000 votes separating the blocs.

    200,000 foreign votes will not be added to count until Wednesday, so Swedes in eg London might decide the outcome!! 😉

    OR the Swedes of Ballard, Seattle. Home of the Northwest Nordic Heritage Museum, and a must-see-and-be-seen stop for Scandinavian royals.

    BTW, Ballard is only place in the world (I think) where you may encounter anti-Swedish sentiment.

    Among old Norskis! Who aren't exactly crazy about Finns and Danes either. Not sure of views re: Danes, Icelanders, etc, but reckon skeptical covers it.
    Anti-Swedish sentiment is rife in Russia. They go ballistic if anyone points out that the Rus (vikings) established both the Ukrainian and Russian states (Rus-ia). Not to mention Poltava etc. And that we like gays and women. They despise us.

    Anti-Swedish sentiment also a minor feature in Finnish society. Resentment that all Finnish children must study Swedish.

    I'm sure I recall a piece on modern Finland having a bit of denial about its long history with and influence from Sweden. Fair comment?
    Not sure I understand your question. Finland didn’t have a “long history with and influence from Sweden”, it was just part of Sweden. It was simply eastern Sweden. For 8 centuries.
    Yes, that was the point of the article (I cannot find it though), saying that modern Finland downplayed that status, as if it was an embarrassing thing they did not want to mention.
    Haven’t read the article of course, but

    Swedish speaking Finns are a embedded part of the polity, with their own schools and political parties.
    Swedish has equal status with Finnish as the national language. Swedish-speaking Finns are just Finns, like any other.

    (They sound so cute. Like hearing the Good Old Boys from the Dukes of Hazard: loveable country bumpkins.)
    They are, on average, posher though.
    As many are descended from the Swedish high bourgeoisie who ruled Finland when it was indeed part of Sweden.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    IshmaelZ said:

    Excuse my intrusion, but is it not a little in poor taste to be debating republic versus monarchy at the moment? The lady has not even had her funeral yet. Show a little judgement and delicacy. There is *plenty* of time for vigorous (and good-natured) debate in the years ahead.

    No, it's as good a time as any to debate it. HMQ is Sleeping the Big Sleep and doesn't give a toss one way or the other, and her son is a self regarding adulterous creep who deserves no quarter, after marrying with the full intention of carrying on with the Tampon Holder Consort during the actual engagement to poor old Di. What a monumental fucking arsewipe, and the THC doesn't look great either.
    This is why you won´t get much of a hearing. You are not even prepared to observe a few common decencies. No one is perfect, and for every one of the supposedly unforgivable "crimes" you name, there are a thousand other examples of civic duty and public service that show a totally different view. So spew childish hate, by all means, but it will be greeted with "haters gonna hate" and a shrug. Your views are angry and perhaps a bit childish, but ultimately meaningless.
  • StuartDickson - I don't know whether you have mentioned this earlier -- in which case I apologize -- but am I right to conclude that Sweden's reaction to COVID was not an important issue in this election?

    Spot on.

    Total, 100% non-issue.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    StuartDickson - I don't know whether you have mentioned this earlier -- in which case I apologize -- but am I right to conclude that Sweden's reaction to COVID was not an important issue in this election?

    Spot on.

    Total, 100% non-issue.
    Interesting! I wonder if there was a GE in the U.K. this week if Covid would be an issue here? I’m not convinced directly, but the Tories would be attacked for cronyism for sure, and would probably attack Starmer for wanting to lockdown harder and longer.
  • Overheard near Buckingham Palace: "There's no toilets. It's going to be a carnage."

    https://twitter.com/BeardyHowse/status/1569050481120477196
  • On showing deference: I walk a lot, and often encounter women on my walks. If they make eye contact, I give a small nod of my head to them, as one might when tipping a hat. Most women I encounter seem to like it, and show that by smiling briefly. Many then say "Good morning", or "Hello", to which I reply, by repeating their greeting.

    So when I show a little deference I am often rewarded.

    (I don't know what women's reactions would be in, for example, Manhattan. I don't know how many would even make eye contact in such places.)

    I perhaps should add that, as a slender fellow, who will turn 80 next August, I don't look particularly threatening.

    To maximize positive impact, ALWAYS be sure to first XYZ: eXamine Your Zipper
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    There are only approx 7000 votes separating the blocs.

    200,000 foreign votes will not be added to count until Wednesday, so Swedes in eg London might decide the outcome!! 😉

    OR the Swedes of Ballard, Seattle. Home of the Northwest Nordic Heritage Museum, and a must-see-and-be-seen stop for Scandinavian royals.

    BTW, Ballard is only place in the world (I think) where you may encounter anti-Swedish sentiment.

    Among old Norskis! Who aren't exactly crazy about Finns and Danes either. Not sure of views re: Danes, Icelanders, etc, but reckon skeptical covers it.
    Anti-Swedish sentiment is rife in Russia. They go ballistic if anyone points out that the Rus (vikings) established both the Ukrainian and Russian states (Rus-ia). Not to mention Poltava etc. And that we like gays and women. They despise us.

    Anti-Swedish sentiment also a minor feature in Finnish society. Resentment that all Finnish children must study Swedish.

    I'm sure I recall a piece on modern Finland having a bit of denial about its long history with and influence from Sweden. Fair comment?
    Not sure I understand your question. Finland didn’t have a “long history with and influence from Sweden”, it was just part of Sweden. It was simply eastern Sweden. For 8 centuries.
    Yes, that was the point of the article (I cannot find it though), saying that modern Finland downplayed that status, as if it was an embarrassing thing they did not want to mention.
    Haven’t read the article of course, but

    Swedish speaking Finns are a embedded part of the polity, with their own schools and political parties.
    Swedish has equal status with Finnish as the national language. Swedish-speaking Finns are just Finns, like any other.

    (They sound so cute. Like hearing the Good Old Boys from the Dukes of Hazard: loveable country bumpkins.)
    They are, on average, posher though.
    As many are descended from the Swedish high bourgeoisie who ruled Finland when it was indeed part of Sweden.
    Yes and no. Swedish-speaking Helsinki = very posh.

    Coastal rural Swedish-speakers = hillbillies.

    We get a lot of hillbilly tv shows here, but rarely hear from the Helsinki set.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    “SCOOP: Foreign heads of state and their spouses heading to London for the state funeral for Queen Elizabeth II have been asked to arrive in the U.K. on commercial flights and banned from using helicopters to get around.”

    https://www.politico.eu/article/queen-elizabeth-joe-biden-king-charles-westminster-abbeyonly-heads-of-state-plus-one-to-attend-queen-elizabeths-funeral/
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191

    On showing deference: I walk a lot, and often encounter women on my walks. If they make eye contact, I give a small nod of my head to them, as one might when tipping a hat. Most women I encounter seem to like it, and show that by smiling briefly. Many then say "Good morning", or "Hello", to which I reply, by repeating their greeting.

    So when I show a little deference I am often rewarded.

    (I don't know what women's reactions would be in, for example, Manhattan. I don't know how many would even make eye contact in such places.)

    I perhaps should add that, as a slender fellow, who will turn 80 next August, I don't look particularly threatening.

    Bet you wish that you'd worked this out some 62 years ago ;-)
  • Overheard near Buckingham Palace: "There's no toilets. It's going to be a carnage."

    https://twitter.com/BeardyHowse/status/1569050481120477196

    Perhaps the Forces of Order should worry less about signage, and more about sewage?
  • Now only 1 single MP separating Left bloc from Right bloc.

    Maybe London Swedes *will* be decisive?!?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited September 2022

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    There are only approx 7000 votes separating the blocs.

    200,000 foreign votes will not be added to count until Wednesday, so Swedes in eg London might decide the outcome!! 😉

    OR the Swedes of Ballard, Seattle. Home of the Northwest Nordic Heritage Museum, and a must-see-and-be-seen stop for Scandinavian royals.

    BTW, Ballard is only place in the world (I think) where you may encounter anti-Swedish sentiment.

    Among old Norskis! Who aren't exactly crazy about Finns and Danes either. Not sure of views re: Danes, Icelanders, etc, but reckon skeptical covers it.
    Anti-Swedish sentiment is rife in Russia. They go ballistic if anyone points out that the Rus (vikings) established both the Ukrainian and Russian states (Rus-ia). Not to mention Poltava etc. And that we like gays and women. They despise us.

    Anti-Swedish sentiment also a minor feature in Finnish society. Resentment that all Finnish children must study Swedish.

    I'm sure I recall a piece on modern Finland having a bit of denial about its long history with and influence from Sweden. Fair comment?
    Not sure I understand your question. Finland didn’t have a “long history with and influence from Sweden”, it was just part of Sweden. It was simply eastern Sweden. For 8 centuries.
    Yes, that was the point of the article (I cannot find it though), saying that modern Finland downplayed that status, as if it was an embarrassing thing they did not want to mention.
    Haven’t read the article of course, but

    Swedish speaking Finns are a embedded part of the polity, with their own schools and political parties.
    Swedish has equal status with Finnish as the national language. Swedish-speaking Finns are just Finns, like any other.

    (They sound so cute. Like hearing the Good Old Boys from the Dukes of Hazard: loveable country bumpkins.)
    They are, on average, posher though.
    As many are descended from the Swedish high bourgeoisie who ruled Finland when it was indeed part of Sweden.
    Yes and no. Swedish-speaking Helsinki = very posh.

    Coastal rural Swedish-speakers = hillbillies.

    We get a lot of hillbilly tv shows here, but rarely hear from the Helsinki set.
    I am aware of the coastal hillbillies but considered them marginal.

    Why do you hear a lot from them? Are they stock comic characters, like Brummies?

    And why not from the Swedish-speaking bourgeoisie? Are they hiding in high finance etc and don’t get out much?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Excuse my intrusion, but is it not a little in poor taste to be debating republic versus monarchy at the moment? The lady has not even had her funeral yet. Show a little judgement and delicacy. There is *plenty* of time for vigorous (and good-natured) debate in the years ahead.

    No, it's as good a time as any to debate it. HMQ is Sleeping the Big Sleep and doesn't give a toss one way or the other, and her son is a self regarding adulterous creep who deserves no quarter, after marrying with the full intention of carrying on with the Tampon Holder Consort during the actual engagement to poor old Di. What a monumental fucking arsewipe, and the THC doesn't look great either.
    This is why you won´t get much of a hearing. You are not even prepared to observe a few common decencies. No one is perfect, and for every one of the supposedly unforgivable "crimes" you name, there are a thousand other examples of civic duty and public service that show a totally different view. So spew childish hate, by all means, but it will be greeted with "haters gonna hate" and a shrug. Your views are angry and perhaps a bit childish, but ultimately meaningless.
    Wrong, I'm afraid. Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special, and not actually compensated by any amount of quote civic duty unquote. But you carry on with the invitation to your insect overlords to give it to as hard as they like, so typical of the non upper class English Tory.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,039
    edited September 2022

    WarMonitor🇺🇦
    @WarMonitor3
    ·
    1h
    Russian military convoys are seen to be heading towards Mariupol.

    I hope the Ukrainians have a HIMARS or two available ...

    Slava Ukraini
  • Sweden Democrats now very down in the mouth: they are probably not going to have any influence on the formation of the next government. They have just nicked other Right voters: not enough crosses over from Left to Right.

    I really do not know anything about Swedish politics so could you give me an idea of exactly how extreme the left and right are and the implications for Sweden

    Sorry I am not more knowledgeable on this
    No apology necessary! 😄 Why on earth should you?

    The short answer is: not very extreme. Yes, the Left party has roots in the disgusting Communist swamp (DDR apologists for example) and the Sweden Democrats were formed partly by neo-Nazis. But to be honest, the modern Left and SD parties are pale shadows of their roots. They have both moved strongly towards the centre.

    The long answer: see a post I posted a few hours ago:

    SWEDISH GENERAL ELECTION

    Brief guide to the commonly-used party abbreviations, and point on spectrum.

    PR system, with 4% threshold to get into parliament. The main thing to get your head around is that all 8 of the parliamentary parties are “left” in a global context, even the supposed “conservatives”.

    Currently 8 parliamentary parties

    Two “Labour” parties:

    S - Social Democrats, think centrist/sensible Labour; currently the sole governing party, weak minority government

    V - Vänsterpartiet (’Left Party’), formerly the Communists, far-left; back the Social Democrats

    One Green party:

    MP - Miljöpartiet (’Environment Party’), what it says on the tin, pretty leftist; back the Social Democrats

    Two conservative parties:

    M - Moderates, think Tory wets; currently the principal Opposition party

    KD - Christian Democrats, ultra-liberal Jesus fans when compared to every other Christian political movement; back the Moderates

    Two ”Lib Dem” parties:

    C - Centre Party, formerly the Agrarians, pro small-business liberals with a greenish tinge, still strongest in rural Sweden; back the Social Democrats

    L - Liberals, classic urban liberal party; oppose the Social Democrats

    One far-right party:

    SD - Sweden Democrats, think BNP-lite/UKIP/Farage, but rarely talk about Europe; bang on about immigration literally non-stop; other policies pretty left wing; back the Moderates
    Thank you. I really appreciate you taking time to explain it
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited September 2022

    Overheard near Buckingham Palace: "There's no toilets. It's going to be a carnage."

    https://twitter.com/BeardyHowse/status/1569050481120477196

    I don't think Her Majesty would have wanted her funeral to resemble the 1971 Glastonbury. Not that the 1971 Glastonbury wasn't good, ofcourse.
  • Donald Trump is claiming he was knighted in private.
  • rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    In an Indian restaurant in a drizzly, rundown Faro on the coast. After the beauty of the Alentejo, and a week of “hmm, that pleasant Portuguese food is awfully like the last pleasant Portuguese food I had yesterday, right down to the nice-ish, OK-ish bean soup”, the prospect of a decent curry is FRAZZLING my Pleasure Circuits

    This is the same experience I had in Italy two weeks ago. The food is often pleasant and generally what you expect. ALWAYS

    Faro is a dump.
    Correct. Portimão is less of a dump (but still a bit of one). Lagos is pleasant.
    I learned to fly a gyrocopter in Lagos.
    That really sounds like a code phrase: I wonder what the counter-sign is?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Light relief - Cornish megaliths. Had never heard of this pretty stone circle.

    "The Merry Maidens is a Neolithic stone circle consisting of 19 standing stones, situated in a field in St Buryan
    The Cornish name for the circle was ‘Dans Maen’ or ‘Dons Meyn’, meaning ‘dancing stones’"


    https://twitter.com/CIOS_HER/status/1562697963050516480
  • Sweden GE 2022

    With just over 45% of electoral districts counted, Swedish Democrats have +2% lead versus Moderates.

    Is this margin too much for M to overcome, and thus retain status as #2 party?

    AND what impact might overseas vote play? For example, would it tend to favor M over SD?
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    There are only approx 7000 votes separating the blocs.

    200,000 foreign votes will not be added to count until Wednesday, so Swedes in eg London might decide the outcome!! 😉

    OR the Swedes of Ballard, Seattle. Home of the Northwest Nordic Heritage Museum, and a must-see-and-be-seen stop for Scandinavian royals.

    BTW, Ballard is only place in the world (I think) where you may encounter anti-Swedish sentiment.

    Among old Norskis! Who aren't exactly crazy about Finns and Danes either. Not sure of views re: Danes, Icelanders, etc, but reckon skeptical covers it.
    Anti-Swedish sentiment is rife in Russia. They go ballistic if anyone points out that the Rus (vikings) established both the Ukrainian and Russian states (Rus-ia). Not to mention Poltava etc. And that we like gays and women. They despise us.

    Anti-Swedish sentiment also a minor feature in Finnish society. Resentment that all Finnish children must study Swedish.

    I'm sure I recall a piece on modern Finland having a bit of denial about its long history with and influence from Sweden. Fair comment?
    Not sure I understand your question. Finland didn’t have a “long history with and influence from Sweden”, it was just part of Sweden. It was simply eastern Sweden. For 8 centuries.
    Yes, that was the point of the article (I cannot find it though), saying that modern Finland downplayed that status, as if it was an embarrassing thing they did not want to mention.
    Haven’t read the article of course, but

    Swedish speaking Finns are a embedded part of the polity, with their own schools and political parties.
    Swedish has equal status with Finnish as the national language. Swedish-speaking Finns are just Finns, like any other.

    (They sound so cute. Like hearing the Good Old Boys from the Dukes of Hazard: loveable country bumpkins.)
    They are, on average, posher though.
    As many are descended from the Swedish high bourgeoisie who ruled Finland when it was indeed part of Sweden.
    Yes and no. Swedish-speaking Helsinki = very posh.

    Coastal rural Swedish-speakers = hillbillies.

    We get a lot of hillbilly tv shows here, but rarely hear from the Helsinki set.
    I am aware of the coastal hillbillies but considered them marginal.

    Why do you hear a lot from them? Are they stock comic characters, like Brummies?

    And why not from the Swedish-speaking bourgeoisie? Are they hiding in high finance etc and don’t get out much?
    Dunno. Our tv companies buy in an awful lot of Norwegian tv shows, and a fair few Finnish and Danish. Nearly all the Finnish tv shows I’ve ever seen come from Åland, which is country bumpkin territory. Never ever heard a posh Helsinki voice on telly. (Our next door neighbour at our old house is from one of those privileged Helsinki families, so I know what they sound like.)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404

    Sweden Democrats now very down in the mouth: they are probably not going to have any influence on the formation of the next government. They have just nicked other Right voters: not enough crosses over from Left to Right.

    I really do not know anything about Swedish politics so could you give me an idea of exactly how extreme the left and right are and the implications for Sweden

    Sorry I am not more knowledgeable on this
    No apology necessary! 😄 Why on earth should you?

    The short answer is: not very extreme. Yes, the Left party has roots in the disgusting Communist swamp (DDR apologists for example) and the Sweden Democrats were formed partly by neo-Nazis. But to be honest, the modern Left and SD parties are pale shadows of their roots. They have both moved strongly towards the centre.

    The long answer: see a post I posted a few hours ago:

    SWEDISH GENERAL ELECTION

    Brief guide to the commonly-used party abbreviations, and point on spectrum.

    PR system, with 4% threshold to get into parliament. The main thing to get your head around is that all 8 of the parliamentary parties are “left” in a global context, even the supposed “conservatives”.

    Currently 8 parliamentary parties

    Two “Labour” parties:

    S - Social Democrats, think centrist/sensible Labour; currently the sole governing party, weak minority government

    V - Vänsterpartiet (’Left Party’), formerly the Communists, far-left; back the Social Democrats

    One Green party:

    MP - Miljöpartiet (’Environment Party’), what it says on the tin, pretty leftist; back the Social Democrats

    Two conservative parties:

    M - Moderates, think Tory wets; currently the principal Opposition party

    KD - Christian Democrats, ultra-liberal Jesus fans when compared to every other Christian political movement; back the Moderates

    Two ”Lib Dem” parties:

    C - Centre Party, formerly the Agrarians, pro small-business liberals with a greenish tinge, still strongest in rural Sweden; back the Social Democrats

    L - Liberals, classic urban liberal party; oppose the Social Democrats

    One far-right party:

    SD - Sweden Democrats, think BNP-lite/UKIP/Farage, but rarely talk about Europe; bang on about immigration literally non-stop; other policies pretty left wing; back the Moderates
    Thank you. I really appreciate you taking time to explain it
    Me too. Really.useful.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Excuse my intrusion, but is it not a little in poor taste to be debating republic versus monarchy at the moment? The lady has not even had her funeral yet. Show a little judgement and delicacy. There is *plenty* of time for vigorous (and good-natured) debate in the years ahead.

    No, it's as good a time as any to debate it. HMQ is Sleeping the Big Sleep and doesn't give a toss one way or the other, and her son is a self regarding adulterous creep who deserves no quarter, after marrying with the full intention of carrying on with the Tampon Holder Consort during the actual engagement to poor old Di. What a monumental fucking arsewipe, and the THC doesn't look great either.
    This is why you won´t get much of a hearing. You are not even prepared to observe a few common decencies. No one is perfect, and for every one of the supposedly unforgivable "crimes" you name, there are a thousand other examples of civic duty and public service that show a totally different view. So spew childish hate, by all means, but it will be greeted with "haters gonna hate" and a shrug. Your views are angry and perhaps a bit childish, but ultimately meaningless.
    Wrong, I'm afraid. Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special, and not actually compensated by any amount of quote civic duty unquote. But you carry on with the invitation to your insect overlords to give it to as hard as they like, so typical of the non upper class English Tory.
    Idiot. I am not, and never have been, a Conservative, and snobbery ("non upper class" - how would you know?) is as childish as the rest of your contributions today. Denigrating people you disagree with is one of the stupidest features of UK politics and you fall straight into the trap. So go and have a lie down.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    One last thought on families: John J. DiIulio Jr (a Democrat who served briefly in the George W. Bush administration) liked to tell this story. In his old-fashioned Italian neighborhood a young man got a young woman pregnant. To the distress of the family and the neighbors, he did not immediately propose to her. So, the family went to the local Mafia godfather and asked him for help.

    He called the young man in, and explained the facts of life (and perhaps, death) to him. The next day, the young man showed up at the young woman's house with a ring.

    DiIulio adds that the marriage which followed was reasonably happy -- and that sometimes it takes a man to make a man out of a boy.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158

    Donald Trump is claiming he was knighted in private.

    This is actually true:

    Trump and I were secretly taken to the Palace, where HM knighted us. Afterwards, we had an evening at Annabel's, where we celebrated our new knightly roles.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    With half the districts declared it's 49.2% for both blocs.

    https://resultat.val.se/val2022/prel/RD/rike
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Excuse my intrusion, but is it not a little in poor taste to be debating republic versus monarchy at the moment? The lady has not even had her funeral yet. Show a little judgement and delicacy. There is *plenty* of time for vigorous (and good-natured) debate in the years ahead.

    No, it's as good a time as any to debate it. HMQ is Sleeping the Big Sleep and doesn't give a toss one way or the other, and her son is a self regarding adulterous creep who deserves no quarter, after marrying with the full intention of carrying on with the Tampon Holder Consort during the actual engagement to poor old Di. What a monumental fucking arsewipe, and the THC doesn't look great either.
    This is why you won´t get much of a hearing. You are not even prepared to observe a few common decencies. No one is perfect, and for every one of the supposedly unforgivable "crimes" you name, there are a thousand other examples of civic duty and public service that show a totally different view. So spew childish hate, by all means, but it will be greeted with "haters gonna hate" and a shrug. Your views are angry and perhaps a bit childish, but ultimately meaningless.
    Wrong, I'm afraid. Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special, and not actually compensated by any amount of quote civic duty unquote. But you carry on with the invitation to your insect overlords to give it to as hard as they like, so typical of the non upper class English Tory.
    "Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special"

    Is it particularly special?

  • Will Ukraine join the Commonwealth?

    I was surprised to learn that Gabon and Togo joined *this year*.

    Rwanda, Mozambique and Cameroon are also recently joined members as well, in spite of none of them having been in the British Empire (Belgian, Portuguese and French.)
    To be Uber-pedantic, the port of Chinde in Mozambique (then Portuguese East Africa) was leased to Britain from 1891 to 1923, and Cameroon is an amalgam of the former French territory and the southern half of the former British Cameroons (the northern section now forming the northeast of Nigeria), the whole lot being German pre-1914.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    That really sounds like a code phrase: I wonder what the counter-sign is?

    I drove a taxi, in Albania...
  • rcs1000 said:

    Donald Trump is claiming he was knighted in private.

    This is actually true:

    Trump and I were secretly taken to the Palace, where HM knighted us. Afterwards, we had an evening at Annabel's, where we celebrated our new knightly roles.
    Bet you'd like Keira "knightly".
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,039
    Andy_JS said:

    With half the districts declared it's 49.2% for both blocs.

    https://resultat.val.se/val2022/prel/RD/rike

    "The people have spoken, but we've no idea what they've said ..."
  • NOW THE RIGHT BLOC HAS TAKEN THE LEAD!!!
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    There are only approx 7000 votes separating the blocs.

    200,000 foreign votes will not be added to count until Wednesday, so Swedes in eg London might decide the outcome!! 😉

    OR the Swedes of Ballard, Seattle. Home of the Northwest Nordic Heritage Museum, and a must-see-and-be-seen stop for Scandinavian royals.

    BTW, Ballard is only place in the world (I think) where you may encounter anti-Swedish sentiment.

    Among old Norskis! Who aren't exactly crazy about Finns and Danes either. Not sure of views re: Danes, Icelanders, etc, but reckon skeptical covers it.
    Anti-Swedish sentiment is rife in Russia. They go ballistic if anyone points out that the Rus (vikings) established both the Ukrainian and Russian states (Rus-ia). Not to mention Poltava etc. And that we like gays and women. They despise us.

    Anti-Swedish sentiment also a minor feature in Finnish society. Resentment that all Finnish children must study Swedish.

    I'm sure I recall a piece on modern Finland having a bit of denial about its long history with and influence from Sweden. Fair comment?
    Not sure I understand your question. Finland didn’t have a “long history with and influence from Sweden”, it was just part of Sweden. It was simply eastern Sweden. For 8 centuries.
    Yes, that was the point of the article (I cannot find it though), saying that modern Finland downplayed that status, as if it was an embarrassing thing they did not want to mention.
    Haven’t read the article of course, but

    Swedish speaking Finns are a embedded part of the polity, with their own schools and political parties.
    Swedish has equal status with Finnish as the national language. Swedish-speaking Finns are just Finns, like any other.

    (They sound so cute. Like hearing the Good Old Boys from the Dukes of Hazard: loveable country bumpkins.)
    They are, on average, posher though.
    As many are descended from the Swedish high bourgeoisie who ruled Finland when it was indeed part of Sweden.
    Yes and no. Swedish-speaking Helsinki = very posh.

    Coastal rural Swedish-speakers = hillbillies.

    We get a lot of hillbilly tv shows here, but rarely hear from the Helsinki set.
    Always amazes me how many of the best known Finns were/are Swedish speakers: Sibelius, Mannerheim, Tove Jansen, Akseli Gallen-Kallela, Fazer, Linus Torvalds, and many others.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    In an Indian restaurant in a drizzly, rundown Faro on the coast. After the beauty of the Alentejo, and a week of “hmm, that pleasant Portuguese food is awfully like the last pleasant Portuguese food I had yesterday, right down to the nice-ish, OK-ish bean soup”, the prospect of a decent curry is FRAZZLING my Pleasure Circuits

    This is the same experience I had in Italy two weeks ago. The food is often pleasant and generally what you expect. ALWAYS

    Faro is a dump.
    Correct. Portimão is less of a dump (but still a bit of one). Lagos is pleasant.
    I learned to fly a gyrocopter in Lagos.
    That really sounds like a code phrase: I wonder what the counter-sign is?
    The Red Kipper flies at midnight?
  • Right 175 MPs
    Left 174 MPs
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    edited September 2022

    Overheard near Buckingham Palace: "There's no toilets. It's going to be a carnage."

    https://twitter.com/BeardyHowse/status/1569050481120477196

    Perhaps the Forces of Order should worry less about signage, and more about sewage?
    I was there this afternoon. As part of the setup for the 19th, they are bringing in truck loads of portaloos.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    I think the Swedish election show has changed their forecast from 176/173 to 175/174. Can anyone confirm?
  • Now it’s the Social Democrats who look in shell-shock.

    Sweden Democrats jumping up and down in ecstasy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Overheard near Buckingham Palace: "There's no toilets. It's going to be a carnage."

    https://twitter.com/BeardyHowse/status/1569050481120477196

    Perhaps the Forces of Order should worry less about signage, and more about sewage?
    I was there this afternoon. As part of the setup for the 19th, they are bringing in truck loads of portaloos.
    Makes you wonder how they managed in 1952. Stiff upper lip and all that.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Donald Trump is claiming he was knighted in private.

    This is actually true:

    Trump and I were secretly taken to the Palace, where HM knighted us. Afterwards, we had an evening at Annabel's, where we celebrated our new knightly roles.
    Fake news!

    Everyone knows that Trump would MUCH prefer chowing down with Prince Andrew at Pizza Express, then heading out for a night of bowling.

    With each eager to show off their balls.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    kle4 said:

    There are only approx 7000 votes separating the blocs.

    200,000 foreign votes will not be added to count until Wednesday, so Swedes in eg London might decide the outcome!! 😉

    OR the Swedes of Ballard, Seattle. Home of the Northwest Nordic Heritage Museum, and a must-see-and-be-seen stop for Scandinavian royals.

    BTW, Ballard is only place in the world (I think) where you may encounter anti-Swedish sentiment.

    Among old Norskis! Who aren't exactly crazy about Finns and Danes either. Not sure of views re: Danes, Icelanders, etc, but reckon skeptical covers it.
    Anti-Swedish sentiment is rife in Russia. They go ballistic if anyone points out that the Rus (vikings) established both the Ukrainian and Russian states (Rus-ia). Not to mention Poltava etc. And that we like gays and women. They despise us.

    Anti-Swedish sentiment also a minor feature in Finnish society. Resentment that all Finnish children must study Swedish.

    I'm sure I recall a piece on modern Finland having a bit of denial about its long history with and influence from Sweden. Fair comment?
    Not sure I understand your question. Finland didn’t have a “long history with and influence from Sweden”, it was just part of Sweden. It was simply eastern Sweden. For 8 centuries.
    I have an acquaintance who still hasn't graduated from university at the age of 50, because he hasn't passed the compulsory Swedish exam which everyone in Finland must take to graduate university.

    All the road, street signs etc are in Finnish and Swedish. All the children have to learn Swedish at school, to the point of being billingual.

    However, the actual Swedish population of Finland is something like 5%, who are percieved to be rich, and have had a lot of power in the country, and have done so since independence.

    They have their own Swedish speaking schools and universities, and even theatres etc.

    It is a bit like a weird 'post colonial' situation. Stuart of all people should appreciate why people in Finland find the situation a bit annoying.



  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526
    edited September 2022

    NOW THE RIGHT BLOC HAS TAKEN THE LEAD!!!

    I see SVT are saying that the overseas votes haven't been counted yet. Would you expect those to lean left or right?
    https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/senaste-nytt-om-svensk-politik-och-valet-2022
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    In an Indian restaurant in a drizzly, rundown Faro on the coast. After the beauty of the Alentejo, and a week of “hmm, that pleasant Portuguese food is awfully like the last pleasant Portuguese food I had yesterday, right down to the nice-ish, OK-ish bean soup”, the prospect of a decent curry is FRAZZLING my Pleasure Circuits

    This is the same experience I had in Italy two weeks ago. The food is often pleasant and generally what you expect. ALWAYS

    Faro is a dump.
    Correct. Portimão is less of a dump (but still a bit of one). Lagos is pleasant.
    I learned to fly a gyrocopter in Lagos.
    That really sounds like a code phrase: I wonder what the counter-sign is?
    The Red Kipper flies at midnight?
    Little Nellie defended her virtue?
  • Social Democrats look like they’re about to burst out crying.

    Liberals partying.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    rcs1000 said:

    Donald Trump is claiming he was knighted in private.

    This is actually true:

    Trump and I were secretly taken to the Palace, where HM knighted us. Afterwards, we had an evening at Annabel's, where we celebrated our new knightly roles.
    Should we be referring to you as 'Sir rcs1000'? or simply 'My Lord'?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Overheard near Buckingham Palace: "There's no toilets. It's going to be a carnage."

    https://twitter.com/BeardyHowse/status/1569050481120477196

    A stiff bladder is more important than a stiff upper lip.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    This election was always going to be too close to call.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Excuse my intrusion, but is it not a little in poor taste to be debating republic versus monarchy at the moment? The lady has not even had her funeral yet. Show a little judgement and delicacy. There is *plenty* of time for vigorous (and good-natured) debate in the years ahead.

    No, it's as good a time as any to debate it. HMQ is Sleeping the Big Sleep and doesn't give a toss one way or the other, and her son is a self regarding adulterous creep who deserves no quarter, after marrying with the full intention of carrying on with the Tampon Holder Consort during the actual engagement to poor old Di. What a monumental fucking arsewipe, and the THC doesn't look great either.
    This is why you won´t get much of a hearing. You are not even prepared to observe a few common decencies. No one is perfect, and for every one of the supposedly unforgivable "crimes" you name, there are a thousand other examples of civic duty and public service that show a totally different view. So spew childish hate, by all means, but it will be greeted with "haters gonna hate" and a shrug. Your views are angry and perhaps a bit childish, but ultimately meaningless.
    Wrong, I'm afraid. Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special, and not actually compensated by any amount of quote civic duty unquote. But you carry on with the invitation to your insect overlords to give it to as hard as they like, so typical of the non upper class English Tory.
    "Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special"

    Is it particularly special?

    Well, it is conduct which would be condemned outright if the perp were a bricklayer, solicitor, taxi driver, banker, schoolteacher, ballet dancer or bus conductor. But not if he has opened the odd hospital in exchange for a squillion quid a year from the public purse, it appears. How childish to call attention to it, in that case.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    NOW THE RIGHT BLOC HAS TAKEN THE LEAD!!!

    I see SVT are saying that the overseas votes haven't been counted yet. Would you expect those to lean left or right?
    https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/senaste-nytt-om-svensk-politik-och-valet-2022
    One would expect them to be bad for the Sweden Democrats but I don't know about the other parties.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting story I heard last night.

    Some time in the early 90s, Paul McCartney was lined up to play a private performance at Buckingham Palace, perhaps for some kind of reception.

    Paul met the Queen beforehand and said he would be playing later in the evening, and would she be in the audience?

    Oh no, said the Queen, it’ll be 8pm. I’ll be watching Twin Peaks.

    Sounds like absolute bollocks, but was related by Angelo Badalamenti based on a story from Macca himself.

    Sounds familiar. Someone rang into Radio 4 the other day with quite a convincing story that the Queen had told him The Full Monty was one of her favourite films, and that she used to watch it with her mother when it was raining, after he had made a joke s that the equerry's trousers with their velcro looked like stripper's trousers.

    Her viewing habits weren't elite. Don't forget her education was rarefied only on constitutional rather than cultural matters. A lot she simply learnt and absorbed herself from the thousands of people she was around, both everyday and elite.
    David Starkey of course infamously said the late Queen was poorly educated and philistine and uncomfortable with anyone intellectual
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/22/monarchy.topstories3
    Starkey however thought King Charles was intellectually curious and a good speech maker, though he is less a fan of who he has called 'Woke William'

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1633768/gb-news-prince-william-woke-david-starkey-rwanda-ont
    He's certainly intellectually curious. Despite the appearances of dog and horse-only life, his father had a huge library, and intellectual interests, that he kept quiet about, and his mother was naturally bright. I don't think Charles was particularly academic while at Cambridge, but he was always interested in a lot of stuff. He developed his intellect a bit later on, around the time he got interested in architecture.
    Nobody serious takes Starkey the Sycophant seriously. He's a pantomime character.

    As for Charles the King, would his "intellect" have developed before or after he wrote his ludicrous 2010 book "Harmony" in which he claims that the ratio between some function or other of planetary orbits being so close to the golden section makes a strong case for design? (I posted copies of those pages here a few days ago.) In 2010 the man was 62. He graduated (with a lower second) when he was 21.

    I remember looking at the ratio and it was about 2% out. Many statements have been written about the pyramid complex at Giza, just to take one example, which check out much more closely than that. Archaeoastronomy is an interesting field, but way above that guy's head because he doesn't have the mind to distinguish between what's meaningful and what's probably coincidence. He has no intellect. He just goes "oh wow". He's a moron.

    His eyes glinted when he used the word "harmony" in his recent declaration, which he placed between "peace" and "prosperity". It was as if he was saying, "You think I'm an idiot? You laugh at me, you think I'm simple-minded? Well, I'm going to show you some harmony now, you c***s."

    Say what you really think ! ;.)

    Charles is not a world-leading intellectual, but the way he's threaded together interests in architecture, spirituality and management of the land and earth is actually quite intellectually original - you could even class him as a key intellectual on others as a result.

    What makes this cocktail somewhat impressive is also that he's dome at at time so against the grain of modern cynical and philosophically materialist thinking. Now his warnings in the 1970's on rivers and pollution, industrial farming and, in the 1980's, aesthetic ugliness also look a bit less mad. Poundbury used to be a running joke amongst architects, and his multicultural spiritualism thought too indulgent or far-fetched; not so much now.
    Not really. Most people have views on those things and it's hard not to when you own or expect to inherit 30 palaces and houses and thousands of square miles, and the world's second largest church.

    He is above all an entitled arse.
    I can't actually think of anyone who combined views on architecture, land and the earth, and religion into some sort of programme before him, in the last century. A pretty off-centre and outlying combination for the late 20th century. It might not be Socratic , and it may have been done because he had access to and a platform for all these things, but the fact remains.
    There are a lot in that tradition - though you might need to allow "philosophy around the environment" for 'religion'. To name a few, including some inspirations for King Charles as far back as the 1970s, consider from the world of architecture / sustainability:

    Arthur Quarmby (architect who built the first Earth sheltered house here in 1973-5),
    Walter Segal (timber frame for everyman self-build pioneer, starting from 196x),
    E F Shumacher
    Frank-Lloyd Wright in many ways, though he overdid the technology
    Gerard Morgan-Grenville (founded Centre for Alternative Technology, where Charles visited in the 1970s)

    Prince Charles was distinctive in going out and finding them as a public figure, doing his thinking, and developing a platform. Very Prince Albert-like, I think. A different but parallel track to Prince Philip.
  • Estimated Turnout now just 83%.

    Down from 87.2% in 2018.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Excuse my intrusion, but is it not a little in poor taste to be debating republic versus monarchy at the moment? The lady has not even had her funeral yet. Show a little judgement and delicacy. There is *plenty* of time for vigorous (and good-natured) debate in the years ahead.

    No, it's as good a time as any to debate it. HMQ is Sleeping the Big Sleep and doesn't give a toss one way or the other, and her son is a self regarding adulterous creep who deserves no quarter, after marrying with the full intention of carrying on with the Tampon Holder Consort during the actual engagement to poor old Di. What a monumental fucking arsewipe, and the THC doesn't look great either.
    This is why you won´t get much of a hearing. You are not even prepared to observe a few common decencies. No one is perfect, and for every one of the supposedly unforgivable "crimes" you name, there are a thousand other examples of civic duty and public service that show a totally different view. So spew childish hate, by all means, but it will be greeted with "haters gonna hate" and a shrug. Your views are angry and perhaps a bit childish, but ultimately meaningless.
    Wrong, I'm afraid. Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special, and not actually compensated by any amount of quote civic duty unquote. But you carry on with the invitation to your insect overlords to give it to as hard as they like, so typical of the non upper class English Tory.
    "Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special"

    Is it particularly special?

    Well, it is conduct which would be condemned outright if the perp were a bricklayer, solicitor, taxi driver, banker, schoolteacher, ballet dancer or bus conductor. But not if he has opened the odd hospital in exchange for a squillion quid a year from the public purse, it appears. How childish to call attention to it, in that case.
    Really?

    If the girl was a halfwit, it sounds like he was doing her a favour.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Excuse my intrusion, but is it not a little in poor taste to be debating republic versus monarchy at the moment? The lady has not even had her funeral yet. Show a little judgement and delicacy. There is *plenty* of time for vigorous (and good-natured) debate in the years ahead.

    No, it's as good a time as any to debate it. HMQ is Sleeping the Big Sleep and doesn't give a toss one way or the other, and her son is a self regarding adulterous creep who deserves no quarter, after marrying with the full intention of carrying on with the Tampon Holder Consort during the actual engagement to poor old Di. What a monumental fucking arsewipe, and the THC doesn't look great either.
    This is why you won´t get much of a hearing. You are not even prepared to observe a few common decencies. No one is perfect, and for every one of the supposedly unforgivable "crimes" you name, there are a thousand other examples of civic duty and public service that show a totally different view. So spew childish hate, by all means, but it will be greeted with "haters gonna hate" and a shrug. Your views are angry and perhaps a bit childish, but ultimately meaningless.
    Wrong, I'm afraid. Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special, and not actually compensated by any amount of quote civic duty unquote. But you carry on with the invitation to your insect overlords to give it to as hard as they like, so typical of the non upper class English Tory.
    "Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special"

    Is it particularly special?

    I think adultery is a really shitty thing to do, but I can't say I agree with the rather severe view that no amount of duty could every theoretically make up for being a shitty husband or wife.

    Plenty of people we consider genuinely great might (and in some cases definitely were) complete shits in their personal lives.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173
    Cookie said:

    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting story I heard last night.

    Some time in the early 90s, Paul McCartney was lined up to play a private performance at Buckingham Palace, perhaps for some kind of reception.

    Paul met the Queen beforehand and said he would be playing later in the evening, and would she be in the audience?

    Oh no, said the Queen, it’ll be 8pm. I’ll be watching Twin Peaks.

    Sounds like absolute bollocks, but was related by Angelo Badalamenti based on a story from Macca himself.

    Sounds familiar. Someone rang into Radio 4 the other day with quite a convincing story that the Queen had told him The Full Monty was one of her favourite films, and that she used to watch it with her mother when it was raining, after he had made a joke s that the equerry's trousers with their velcro looked like stripper's trousers.

    Her viewing habits weren't elite. Don't forget her education was rarefied only on constitutional rather than cultural matters. A lot she simply learnt and absorbed herself from the thousands of people she was around, both everyday and elite.
    David Starkey of course infamously said the late Queen was poorly educated and philistine and uncomfortable with anyone intellectual
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/22/monarchy.topstories3
    Starkey however thought King Charles was intellectually curious and a good speech maker, though he is less a fan of who he has called 'Woke William'

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1633768/gb-news-prince-william-woke-david-starkey-rwanda-ont
    He's certainly intellectually curious. Despite the appearances of dog and horse-only life, his father had a huge library, and intellectual interests, that he kept quiet about, and his mother was naturally bright. I don't think Charles was particularly academic while at Cambridge, but he was always interested in a lot of stuff. He developed his intellect a bit later on, around the time he got interested in architecture.
    Nobody serious takes Starkey the Sycophant seriously. He's a pantomime character.

    As for Charles the King, would his "intellect" have developed before or after he wrote his ludicrous 2010 book "Harmony" in which he claims that the ratio between some function or other of planetary orbits being so close to the golden section makes a strong case for design? (I posted copies of those pages here a few days ago.) In 2010 the man was 62. He graduated (with a lower second) when he was 21.

    I remember looking at the ratio and it was about 2% out. Many statements have been written about the pyramid complex at Giza, just to take one example, which check out much more closely than that. Archaeoastronomy is an interesting field, but way above that guy's head because he doesn't have the mind to distinguish between what's meaningful and what's probably coincidence. He has no intellect. He just goes "oh wow". He's a moron.

    His eyes glinted when he used the word "harmony" in his recent declaration, which he placed between "peace" and "prosperity". It was as if he was saying, "You think I'm an idiot? You laugh at me, you think I'm simple-minded? Well, I'm going to show you some harmony now, you c***s."

    Say what you really think ! ;.)

    Charles is not a world-leading intellectual, but the way he's threaded together interests in architecture, spirituality and management of the land and earth is actually quite intellectually original - you could even class him as a key intellectual on others as a result.

    What makes this cocktail somewhat impressive is also that he's dome at at time so against the grain of modern cynical and philosophically materialist thinking. Now his warnings in the 1970's on rivers and pollution, industrial farming and, in the 1980's, aesthetic ugliness also look a bit less mad. Poundbury used to be a running joke amongst architects, and his multicultural spiritualism thought too indulgent or far-fetched; not so much now.
    Not really. Most people have views on those things and it's hard not to when you own or expect to inherit 30 palaces and houses and thousands of square miles, and the world's second largest church.

    He is above all an entitled arse.
    ..
    My impression of Charles - which could be totally wrong, or could be right but he's going to change - is that he would have made an excellent Prince Edward. Fourth child of the monarch not really expected to take the throne but given free reign to be intellectually curious (which I think he is), and come up with ideas, some of which may go against the grain. You may not agree with him on all of them but it doesn't really matter; none of them are so controversial that they will bring down the monarchy but some might take some thinking in a new direction. And while you're about it, do some stuff with the Prince's trust and write the odd children's book. Fine. If you behave like an entitled arse no-one will really mind.

    But does he have even half the monarch skills the queen had? Can he come across as charming and well liked and a national treasure and slightly mysterious and almost never alienate anyone ever? Can he be something we can largely all agree on? Can he be the subject of 'God save the King' without making the singer question too deeply whether this is something he wants to be singing? Let's hope so.
    We're about to find out :smile: .

    I think he probably does, and has perhaps had the most thorough preparation of any monarch for centuries.

    I don't think he has been really controversial, tbh.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited September 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Light relief - Cornish megaliths. Had never heard of this pretty stone circle.

    "The Merry Maidens is a Neolithic stone circle consisting of 19 standing stones, situated in a field in St Buryan
    The Cornish name for the circle was ‘Dans Maen’ or ‘Dons Meyn’, meaning ‘dancing stones’"


    https://twitter.com/CIOS_HER/status/1562697963050516480

    Remarkable coincidence - I literally started reading Pratchett's 'Lords and Ladies' half an hour ago, the plot of which involves a stone circle known as the Dancers.

    There's quite a few neolithic monuments I had never heard of here and in Ireland, I feel like there are some missed treasures.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,156
    edited September 2022
    MattW said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting story I heard last night.

    Some time in the early 90s, Paul McCartney was lined up to play a private performance at Buckingham Palace, perhaps for some kind of reception.

    Paul met the Queen beforehand and said he would be playing later in the evening, and would she be in the audience?

    Oh no, said the Queen, it’ll be 8pm. I’ll be watching Twin Peaks.

    Sounds like absolute bollocks, but was related by Angelo Badalamenti based on a story from Macca himself.

    Sounds familiar. Someone rang into Radio 4 the other day with quite a convincing story that the Queen had told him The Full Monty was one of her favourite films, and that she used to watch it with her mother when it was raining, after he had made a joke s that the equerry's trousers with their velcro looked like stripper's trousers.

    Her viewing habits weren't elite. Don't forget her education was rarefied only on constitutional rather than cultural matters. A lot she simply learnt and absorbed herself from the thousands of people she was around, both everyday and elite.
    David Starkey of course infamously said the late Queen was poorly educated and philistine and uncomfortable with anyone intellectual
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/22/monarchy.topstories3
    Starkey however thought King Charles was intellectually curious and a good speech maker, though he is less a fan of who he has called 'Woke William'

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1633768/gb-news-prince-william-woke-david-starkey-rwanda-ont
    He's certainly intellectually curious. Despite the appearances of dog and horse-only life, his father had a huge library, and intellectual interests, that he kept quiet about, and his mother was naturally bright. I don't think Charles was particularly academic while at Cambridge, but he was always interested in a lot of stuff. He developed his intellect a bit later on, around the time he got interested in architecture.
    Nobody serious takes Starkey the Sycophant seriously. He's a pantomime character.

    As for Charles the King, would his "intellect" have developed before or after he wrote his ludicrous 2010 book "Harmony" in which he claims that the ratio between some function or other of planetary orbits being so close to the golden section makes a strong case for design? (I posted copies of those pages here a few days ago.) In 2010 the man was 62. He graduated (with a lower second) when he was 21.

    I remember looking at the ratio and it was about 2% out. Many statements have been written about the pyramid complex at Giza, just to take one example, which check out much more closely than that. Archaeoastronomy is an interesting field, but way above that guy's head because he doesn't have the mind to distinguish between what's meaningful and what's probably coincidence. He has no intellect. He just goes "oh wow". He's a moron.

    His eyes glinted when he used the word "harmony" in his recent declaration, which he placed between "peace" and "prosperity". It was as if he was saying, "You think I'm an idiot? You laugh at me, you think I'm simple-minded? Well, I'm going to show you some harmony now, you c***s."

    Say what you really think ! ;.)

    Charles is not a world-leading intellectual, but the way he's threaded together interests in architecture, spirituality and management of the land and earth is actually quite intellectually original - you could even class him as a key intellectual on others as a result.

    What makes this cocktail somewhat impressive is also that he's dome at at time so against the grain of modern cynical and philosophically materialist thinking. Now his warnings in the 1970's on rivers and pollution, industrial farming and, in the 1980's, aesthetic ugliness also look a bit less mad. Poundbury used to be a running joke amongst architects, and his multicultural spiritualism thought too indulgent or far-fetched; not so much now.
    Not really. Most people have views on those things and it's hard not to when you own or expect to inherit 30 palaces and houses and thousands of square miles, and the world's second largest church.

    He is above all an entitled arse.
    I can't actually think of anyone who combined views on architecture, land and the earth, and religion into some sort of programme before him, in the last century. A pretty off-centre and outlying combination for the late 20th century. It might not be Socratic , and it may have been done because he had access to and a platform for all these things, but the fact remains.
    There are a lot in that tradition - though you might need to allow "philosophy around the environment" for 'religion'. To name a few, including some inspirations for King Charles as far back as the 1970s, consider from the world of architecture / sustainability:

    Arthur Quarmby (architect who built the first Earth sheltered house here in 1973-5),
    Walter Segal (timber frame for everyman self-build pioneer, starting from 196x),
    E F Shumacher
    Frank-Lloyd Wright in many ways, though he overdid the technology
    Gerard Morgan-Grenville (founded Centre for Alternative Technology, where Charles visited in the 1970s)

    Prince Charles was distinctive in going out and finding them as a public figure, doing his thinking, and developing a platform. Very Prince Albert-like, I think. A different but parallel track to Prince Philip.
    No, I agree here, the sustainabllity around the built and natural environment was very much of that time, that he grew up in - *in intellectual rather than everyday circles*, and certainly much further outside the ideological mainstream than now. But I've never seen it combined with a state-minded multicultural spiritualism in the way he does. The ecumenical spiritual interests are also certainly connected to the 1960's, but I think he may be the only person ever worldwide to attempt to merge the two into some sort of national ideology. Very interesting.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Cicero said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    There are only approx 7000 votes separating the blocs.

    200,000 foreign votes will not be added to count until Wednesday, so Swedes in eg London might decide the outcome!! 😉

    OR the Swedes of Ballard, Seattle. Home of the Northwest Nordic Heritage Museum, and a must-see-and-be-seen stop for Scandinavian royals.

    BTW, Ballard is only place in the world (I think) where you may encounter anti-Swedish sentiment.

    Among old Norskis! Who aren't exactly crazy about Finns and Danes either. Not sure of views re: Danes, Icelanders, etc, but reckon skeptical covers it.
    Anti-Swedish sentiment is rife in Russia. They go ballistic if anyone points out that the Rus (vikings) established both the Ukrainian and Russian states (Rus-ia). Not to mention Poltava etc. And that we like gays and women. They despise us.

    Anti-Swedish sentiment also a minor feature in Finnish society. Resentment that all Finnish children must study Swedish.

    I'm sure I recall a piece on modern Finland having a bit of denial about its long history with and influence from Sweden. Fair comment?
    Not sure I understand your question. Finland didn’t have a “long history with and influence from Sweden”, it was just part of Sweden. It was simply eastern Sweden. For 8 centuries.
    Yes, that was the point of the article (I cannot find it though), saying that modern Finland downplayed that status, as if it was an embarrassing thing they did not want to mention.
    Haven’t read the article of course, but

    Swedish speaking Finns are a embedded part of the polity, with their own schools and political parties.
    Swedish has equal status with Finnish as the national language. Swedish-speaking Finns are just Finns, like any other.

    (They sound so cute. Like hearing the Good Old Boys from the Dukes of Hazard: loveable country bumpkins.)
    They are, on average, posher though.
    As many are descended from the Swedish high bourgeoisie who ruled Finland when it was indeed part of Sweden.
    Yes and no. Swedish-speaking Helsinki = very posh.

    Coastal rural Swedish-speakers = hillbillies.

    We get a lot of hillbilly tv shows here, but rarely hear from the Helsinki set.
    Always amazes me how many of the best known Finns were/are Swedish speakers: Sibelius, Mannerheim, Tove Jansen, Akseli Gallen-Kallela, Fazer, Linus Torvalds, and many others.
    An area-based nationalism seeking to separate that area politically from another area with which the said nationalists share a language, when they don't share one with most people in the area they're basing their nationalism on, and when they refer a lot to a language and folk culture that aren't their own, is a strange thing. No wonder Helsinki remains one of the world's most important centres of folklore studies and Finland was the birthplace of the historic-geographic method.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    carnforth said:

    “SCOOP: Foreign heads of state and their spouses heading to London for the state funeral for Queen Elizabeth II have been asked to arrive in the U.K. on commercial flights and banned from using helicopters to get around.”

    https://www.politico.eu/article/queen-elizabeth-joe-biden-king-charles-westminster-abbeyonly-heads-of-state-plus-one-to-attend-queen-elizabeths-funeral/

    for a lot that wont be a problem, but I suspect Air Force 1 will still be used, and I would imagine, most of the Gulf monkeys will wont to attend(?) and I don't think they are keen to forgo there royal aircraft.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Excuse my intrusion, but is it not a little in poor taste to be debating republic versus monarchy at the moment? The lady has not even had her funeral yet. Show a little judgement and delicacy. There is *plenty* of time for vigorous (and good-natured) debate in the years ahead.

    No, it's as good a time as any to debate it. HMQ is Sleeping the Big Sleep and doesn't give a toss one way or the other, and her son is a self regarding adulterous creep who deserves no quarter, after marrying with the full intention of carrying on with the Tampon Holder Consort during the actual engagement to poor old Di. What a monumental fucking arsewipe, and the THC doesn't look great either.
    This is why you won´t get much of a hearing. You are not even prepared to observe a few common decencies. No one is perfect, and for every one of the supposedly unforgivable "crimes" you name, there are a thousand other examples of civic duty and public service that show a totally different view. So spew childish hate, by all means, but it will be greeted with "haters gonna hate" and a shrug. Your views are angry and perhaps a bit childish, but ultimately meaningless.
    Wrong, I'm afraid. Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special, and not actually compensated by any amount of quote civic duty unquote. But you carry on with the invitation to your insect overlords to give it to as hard as they like, so typical of the non upper class English Tory.
    "Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special"

    Is it particularly special?

    Well, it is conduct which would be condemned outright if the perp were a bricklayer, solicitor, taxi driver, banker, schoolteacher, ballet dancer or bus conductor. But not if he has opened the odd hospital in exchange for a squillion quid a year from the public purse, it appears. How childish to call attention to it, in that case.
    Really?

    If the girl was a halfwit, it sounds like he was doing her a favour.
    Well, exercise your own judgement. She was patently young, naive, and easily manipulated.

    Would you have behaved like that?
  • Donald Trump is claiming he was knighted in private.

    Mad-hatter mercury poisoning territory.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Looks like Stockholm has swung to the left. Same pattern as other countries.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/11/republican-protesters-arrested-king-charles-proclamation-events

    Odd wording:

    'A Thames Valley police spokesperson said: “A 45-year-old man was arrested in connection with a disturbance that was caused during the county proclamation ceremony of King Charles III in Oxford.

    “He has subsequently been de-arrested and is engaging with us voluntarily as we investigate a public order offence. The man was arrested on suspicion of a public order offence [under section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986].”'
  • Andy_JS said:

    Looks like Stockholm has swung to the left. Same pattern as other countries.

    And the second city, Gothenburg.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    IshmaelZ said:

    Excuse my intrusion, but is it not a little in poor taste to be debating republic versus monarchy at the moment? The lady has not even had her funeral yet. Show a little judgement and delicacy. There is *plenty* of time for vigorous (and good-natured) debate in the years ahead.

    No, it's as good a time as any to debate it. HMQ is Sleeping the Big Sleep and doesn't give a toss one way or the other, and her son is a self regarding adulterous creep who deserves no quarter, after marrying with the full intention of carrying on with the Tampon Holder Consort during the actual engagement to poor old Di. What a monumental fucking arsewipe, and the THC doesn't look great either.
    Stuart is right. You could wait just a few days before re-starting your campaign.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cicero said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Excuse my intrusion, but is it not a little in poor taste to be debating republic versus monarchy at the moment? The lady has not even had her funeral yet. Show a little judgement and delicacy. There is *plenty* of time for vigorous (and good-natured) debate in the years ahead.

    No, it's as good a time as any to debate it. HMQ is Sleeping the Big Sleep and doesn't give a toss one way or the other, and her son is a self regarding adulterous creep who deserves no quarter, after marrying with the full intention of carrying on with the Tampon Holder Consort during the actual engagement to poor old Di. What a monumental fucking arsewipe, and the THC doesn't look great either.
    This is why you won´t get much of a hearing. You are not even prepared to observe a few common decencies. No one is perfect, and for every one of the supposedly unforgivable "crimes" you name, there are a thousand other examples of civic duty and public service that show a totally different view. So spew childish hate, by all means, but it will be greeted with "haters gonna hate" and a shrug. Your views are angry and perhaps a bit childish, but ultimately meaningless.
    Wrong, I'm afraid. Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special, and not actually compensated by any amount of quote civic duty unquote. But you carry on with the invitation to your insect overlords to give it to as hard as they like, so typical of the non upper class English Tory.
    "Marrying a halfwitted 19 year old while intending to shag your existing girlfriend before during and after, is really special"

    Is it particularly special?

    I think adultery is a really shitty thing to do, but I can't say I agree with the rather severe view that no amount of duty could every theoretically make up for being a shitty husband or wife.

    Plenty of people we consider genuinely great might (and in some cases definitely were) complete shits in their personal lives.
    Not the point. At all. Straying into adultery in the course of a marriage is one thing, entering a marriage with the preconceived intention of being adulterous is another.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Light relief - Cornish megaliths. Had never heard of this pretty stone circle.

    "The Merry Maidens is a Neolithic stone circle consisting of 19 standing stones, situated in a field in St Buryan
    The Cornish name for the circle was ‘Dans Maen’ or ‘Dons Meyn’, meaning ‘dancing stones’"


    https://twitter.com/CIOS_HER/status/1562697963050516480

    Remarkable coincidence - I literally started reading Pratchett's 'Lords and Ladies' half an hour ago, the plot of which involves a stone circle known as the Dancers.

    There's quite a few neolithic monuments I had never heard of here and in Ireland, I feel like there are some missed treasures.
    Exactly my feeling, your final sentiment.
  • Social Democrats look like they’re about to burst out crying.

    Liberals partying.

    Right now leads by 175-174. So is this seats based on what's counted atm, or projected seats based on what's counted?

    So looks like it will come down to the overseas vote?
This discussion has been closed.