Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

A sad day – politicalbetting.com

16791112

Comments

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Presumably those who support the cancellation of the sporting schedule also support the foreclosure of all work places and retailers simultaneously?

    No. Sporting fixtures are not the economy nor peoples access to food, heat, medicine etc
    Er, sporting fixtures are a big part of the economy and people’s livelihoods, you’ll find.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    MikeL said:

    Things will be cancelled simply because nobody wants to be accused of showing disrespect.

    All the UEFA club games have gone ahead tonight as usual without any issues whatsoever. Were any players too upset to play tonight? Have many spectators decided not to attend tonight because they are mourning? Of course not. So why cancel games on Saturday if not tonight? Surely people are far more likely to be upset or in shock tonight than on Saturday.

    The day of the funeral is obviously a different matter and I can understand cancelling things on that day.

    Spot on. Most of all, in absolutely loathe the idea that someone dictates this on the part of the fans and players. What was the attendance at Old Trafford tonight? 50,000? 60,000?
    Apparently football carried on when the old king died. This is Man United vs Preston 3 days after George VI died:




  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    HYUFD said:

    The Queen’s death is such a news supernova that Liz’s simply adequate speech is totally drowned out already.

    I don’t think Truss really gets a bounce.

    Thought Starmer spoke well to be fair, far more statesmanlike than Corbyn or even Ed Miliband would have done. Liz did OK too but if we have to have a Labour PM there are worse options than Sir Keir
    You're warming to Starmer, aren't you? If he were a Tory, you'd much prefer him to Truss, wouldn't you?
    The speech wss ok, maybe a bit more emotive than Truss not that it matters, he should have been on his feet however
  • HYUFD said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    Yes well unfortunately too many 30s and under are narcissists who can't see the importance of much beyond their latest Instagram post
    That's rather rude about my offspring! They read Marx and Tolstoy rather than posting on Instagram (for all you know).
  • Here’s another question.
    What happens to all the Queen’s patronages?
    Do they all just lapse, or are they divvied up among surviving royals?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    biggles said:

    The absolute state of cancelling sporting matches when matches ARE ACTUALLY BEING PLAYED NOW. Either a principle applies or it doesn’t.

    (It shouldn’t, if people don’t want to watch a match they are under no obligation to do so)

    There is a difference. By 1830 it was too late to safely cancel the match.

    Not so. Games have been cancelled at such short notice many many times in the past. However they were right not to cancel it, those who didn’t want to attend didn’t need to do so.

    You simply do not reflect the mood of the nation and while you are entitled to your views you are unlikely to have an effect on the next 10 days mourning for the Queen
    How many people attended the game at Old Trafford?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Presumably those who support the cancellation of the sporting schedule also support the foreclosure of all work places and retailers simultaneously?

    No. Sporting fixtures are not the economy nor peoples access to food, heat, medicine etc
    Er, sporting fixtures are a big part of the economy and people’s livelihoods, you’ll find.
    They will be replayed
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited September 2022

    kle4 said:

    Presumably those who support the cancellation of the sporting schedule also support the foreclosure of all work places and retailers simultaneously?

    Who are you even arguing with with this stuff? You seem to be saying that organisations are being forced to cancel things (which they clearly aren't, since some are not going to), and now that there can be no differences between any sort of event, but that a single policy must apply for everything? Even though, as I said, advice in these matters is generally to consider what is appropriate within the period, rather than provide a set list of X and Y must happen and Z must not. Certainly it will advise certain things would be preferred not to. But why act like if someone does think a sporting event should be cancelled (and I don't care if they do or don't, I think it is up to them) that that must mean they support closing everything? That's not even extending the logic to absurdity, it's just an unconnected point.
    No it’s not unconnected at all. People like cancelling stuff that they aren’t bothered about. So if they don’t have tickets to the Test or the football, they might like cancelling those. But they don’t want to close their local off licence and supermarkets because they want wine and food.

    Give over with the cancelling shit. If the players refuse to play or fans refuse to attend (no evidence so far of that, quite the opposite…) , cancel the games, otherwise carry on.
    It is entirely unconnected, you're really angry and for some reason you've decided that if one thing is cancelled it means everything must be cancelled, as if there is no possibility people could judge things on a case by case basis. There's no logic to that at all, life is not one size fits all.

    You are also really confusing me, since you are acting like they are being forced to close and what an outrage that is, but they aren't.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    I've always liked dwelling on the practicalities behind grand events. Like, who sets up the sound system for the Papal Conclaves? Who organised the bottles of water in the media room for the Taliban press conference after taking Kabul?

    I can just imagine someone at Buckingham Palace frantically hunting round for the headed paper for the official notification, or contacting someone in IT as the printer was bust.

    Ha yes. I’ve been that IT guy in the background on too many work occasions. It’s a big responsibility, to know things that only the CEO knows and not f… it up.

    Interesting that the PM got the message at 16:30 today, two hours before the rest of us, and while the royal plane occupants were still in the car to Balmoral.
    Jacinda Ardern said she was woken up by a policeman waving a torch in her face at 4:50am NZ time, ie 5:50pm UK.

    Having said that they might have waited until a “reasonable hour” to wake her.
    That was about as reasonable an hour as she could have expected. 40 minutes later and it was on the news. Sometimes these things happen in the middle of the night, as with the death of Diana.
    Agree with every word, but rolling it back to the first post… a policeman with a torch in her face? Feels a bit dramatic.

    One of her security squad trying not to wake her husband while at the same time helping reassure her it's not an intruder?
    The intruder thing is what I was thinking of. Don’t know about you but if I’m woken up with a torch in my face I think I’d be kicking and screaming, and thinking “intruder”.

    Minor point I know tonight, just intrigued me.

    You know that you’re alone in the house. Presumably the PM of New Zealand knows that she isn’t, and that there’s established protocol if she needs to be woken in the middle of the night?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,964

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    It’s surely not inappropriate that a period of mourning is observed. I think 10 days too long but them’s the breaks in a 1000-year-old monarchy.
    10 days is needed to transport the body back from Scotland, have the lying in state next week and the full State Funeral on Monday week which will be a public holiday.

    Heads of State from around the world will be there in one of the biggest gatherings of world leaders for years not just in the UK
  • MattW said:

    Pedant question.

    Charles Statement:
    I know her loss will be deeply felt throughout the country, the Realms, and the Commonwealth, and by countless people around the world.

    What, in 2022, are the Realms?

    Her other kingdoms - Canada, Australia etc
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    kle4 said:

    Presumably those who support the cancellation of the sporting schedule also support the foreclosure of all work places and retailers simultaneously?

    Who are you even arguing with with this stuff? You seem to be saying that organisations are being forced to cancel things (which they clearly aren't, since some are not going to), and now that there can be no differences between any sort of event, but that a single policy must apply for everything? Even though, as I said, advice in these matters is generally to consider what is appropriate within the period, rather than provide a set list of X and Y must happen and Z must not. Certainly it will advise certain things would be preferred not to. But why act like if someone does think a sporting event should be cancelled (and I don't care if they do or don't, I think it is up to them) that that must mean they support closing everything? That's not even extending the logic to absurdity, it's just an unconnected point.
    No it’s not unconnected at all. People like cancelling stuff that they aren’t bothered about. So if they don’t have tickets to the Test or the football, they might like cancelling those. But they don’t want to close their local off licence and supermarkets because they want wine and food.

    Give over with the cancelling shit. If the players refuse to play or fans refuse to attend (no evidence so far of that, quite the opposite…) , cancel the games, otherwise carry on.
    So you think the cancellations are to amuse people? That those taking the decisions enjoy it?
    I’d suggest take a step back and think about it a bit. A few days with the nation mourning the head of state, who has been head of state for 70 (seventy!) years.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Remarkable statement from President Macron. Hard to imagine a contemporary British prime minister being as gracious about a great French figure passing. https://twitter.com/EdwardGLuce/status/1567976520404336640/photo/1

    Great tribute. Macron is, and always has been, a class act. Much classier than our recent leaders.
    Though to be fair, he doesn't have an election coming up. Our PM did when she said what she did.

    What does it say about us as a nation, or even Conservatives as a party, that she thought her comments were a vote winner?
  • This is such a strange day, I feel like a bit of an emotional wreck.
    Had an interesting dinner in Mayfair with figures from journalism and polling. By no means a left leaning audience or speakers but the consensus view is that the Tories are screwed, 15% chance of forming the next government. Great news from my point of view although it's hard to feel happy about anything this evening. Also - who would want to run this country after the next election? Talk about a poison chalice.
    The other thing - extraordinary crowds at Green Park tube, obviously come from the Palace. Mood strangely exuberant, not sombre, in line with eye witness accounts from similar past events. The public love this kind of thing. People like the sense of connection that comes with it, I think.
    Final thought - is Leon accounted for? I can't believe he really went on a 15km walk with only a bottle of white wine to drink - feels like more of his mythos under construction - but I do hope he is okay. By any rational benchmark he is utterly reprehensible but he is ours.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,053
    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    I've always liked dwelling on the practicalities behind grand events. Like, who sets up the sound system for the Papal Conclaves? Who organised the bottles of water in the media room for the Taliban press conference after taking Kabul?

    I can just imagine someone at Buckingham Palace frantically hunting round for the headed paper for the official notification, or contacting someone in IT as the printer was bust.

    Ha yes. I’ve been that IT guy in the background on too many work occasions. It’s a big responsibility, to know things that only the CEO knows and not f… it up.

    Interesting that the PM got the message at 16:30 today, two hours before the rest of us, and while the royal plane occupants were still in the car to Balmoral.
    Jacinda Ardern said she was woken up by a policeman waving a torch in her face at 4:50am NZ time, ie 5:50pm UK.

    Having said that they might have waited until a “reasonable hour” to wake her.
    That was about as reasonable an hour as she could have expected. 40 minutes later and it was on the news. Sometimes these things happen in the middle of the night, as with the death of Diana.
    Agree with every word, but rolling it back to the first post… a policeman with a torch in her face? Feels a bit dramatic.

    One of her security squad trying not to wake her husband while at the same time helping reassure her it's not an intruder?
    The intruder thing is what I was thinking of. Don’t know about you but if I’m woken up with a torch in my face I think I’d be kicking and screaming, and thinking “intruder”.

    Minor point I know tonight, just intrigued me.

    As opposed to being woken in the dark?
    Didn’t expect the Spanish Inquisition about this! I’ve woken principals. It was usually by phone or door knock.

    I just raised a very minor eyebrow and can’t see myself signing up on “Op torch in the face”.

  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    I've always liked dwelling on the practicalities behind grand events. Like, who sets up the sound system for the Papal Conclaves? Who organised the bottles of water in the media room for the Taliban press conference after taking Kabul?

    I can just imagine someone at Buckingham Palace frantically hunting round for the headed paper for the official notification, or contacting someone in IT as the printer was bust.

    Some poor sod in each Department’s digital team needs to track down every reference to “Her Majesty” or “the Queen” on gov.uk.
    Um, I am a non techie 60 year old, and I know how grep works. You claim to be 30 ish and haven’t heard of search and replace?
    That's pretty much guaranteed to screw things up. It's a very non-trivial problem to correctly replace strings across a large body of text. You will run into all sorts of corner cases with things like quotes, where you don't want to change what was said, or references, and many other issues.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Presumably those who support the cancellation of the sporting schedule also support the foreclosure of all work places and retailers simultaneously?

    No. Sporting fixtures are not the economy nor peoples access to food, heat, medicine etc
    Er, sporting fixtures are a big part of the economy and people’s livelihoods, you’ll find.
    And they will be rescheduled.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    I wouldn't have, but nations cancel stuff when heads of state die, I don't know why you are so incredibly upset by that. It's up to the organisers to decide what they want to do, I may not agree with their choices but I don't think it is worth getting so angry about either, no one as far we can tell is forcing them to cancel anything. So if you must be as angry as you appear to be about it, direct it solely at the organisers, not the occasion, the occasion is not mandating it.
    EFL postpones all Friday fixtures with a decision about the rest of the weekend waiting on official mourning guidance.
    Personally I'd postpone tomorrow if they want to show respect by not playing, but carry on with the weekend fixtures. Rearranging that many will be quite awkward with such busy yearly schedules. That way they've made a gesture without being too disruptive.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Presumably those who support the cancellation of the sporting schedule also support the foreclosure of all work places and retailers simultaneously?

    Who are you even arguing with with this stuff? You seem to be saying that organisations are being forced to cancel things (which they clearly aren't, since some are not going to), and now that there can be no differences between any sort of event, but that a single policy must apply for everything? Even though, as I said, advice in these matters is generally to consider what is appropriate within the period, rather than provide a set list of X and Y must happen and Z must not. Certainly it will advise certain things would be preferred not to. But why act like if someone does think a sporting event should be cancelled (and I don't care if they do or don't, I think it is up to them) that that must mean they support closing everything? That's not even extending the logic to absurdity, it's just an unconnected point.
    No it’s not unconnected at all. People like cancelling stuff that they aren’t bothered about. So if they don’t have tickets to the Test or the football, they might like cancelling those. But they don’t want to close their local off licence and supermarkets because they want wine and food.

    Give over with the cancelling shit. If the players refuse to play or fans refuse to attend (no evidence so far of that, quite the opposite…) , cancel the games, otherwise carry on.
    It is entirely unconnected, you're really angry and for some reason you've decided that if one thing is cancelled it means everything must be cancelled, as if there is no possibility people could judge things on a case by case basis. There's no logic to that at all, life is not one size fits all.

    You are also really confusing me, since you are acting like they are being forced to close and what an outrage that is, but they aren't.

    I am outraged by all the outrage against outrage about outrage about other outrage {keep going to infinity}

    Can we cancel someone or something for some reason?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    moonshine said:

    Elizabeth the Great is a tag that seems to be sticking on the BBC.

    Bit unfair on the first one.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    It’s surely not inappropriate that a period of mourning is observed. I think 10 days too long but them’s the breaks in a 1000-year-old monarchy.
    10 days is needed to transport the body back from Scotland, have the lying in state next week and the full State Funeral on Monday week which will be a public holiday.

    Heads of State from around the world will be there in one of the biggest gatherings of world leaders for years not just in the UK
    The funeral will not be a public holiday unless they make that change during the planning. As currently set out it will not be
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    I wouldn't have, but nations cancel stuff when heads of state die, I don't know why you are so incredibly upset by that. It's up to the organisers to decide what they want to do, I may not agree with their choices but I don't think it is worth getting so angry about either, no one as far we can tell is forcing them to cancel anything. So if you must be as angry as you appear to be about it, direct it solely at the organisers, not the occasion, the occasion is not mandating it.

    We have spend the last two and a half years closing stuff down and telling people they can’t do stuff.

    Let people make their own choices.

  • Scott_xP said:

    Remarkable statement from President Macron. Hard to imagine a contemporary British prime minister being as gracious about a great French figure passing. https://twitter.com/EdwardGLuce/status/1567976520404336640/photo/1

    Great tribute. Macron is, and always has been, a class act. Much classier than our recent leaders.
    Though to be fair, he doesn't have an election coming up. Our PM did when she said what she did.

    What does it say about us as a nation, or even Conservatives as a party, that she thought her comments were a vote winner?
    Definitely a comment on Tory members not the country as a whole. I am sure that most people thought her comments tacky in the extreme.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    Scott_xP said:

    Remarkable statement from President Macron. Hard to imagine a contemporary British prime minister being as gracious about a great French figure passing. https://twitter.com/EdwardGLuce/status/1567976520404336640/photo/1

    Great tribute. Macron is, and always has been, a class act. Much classier than our recent leaders.
    The reaction to Ukraine invasion from him showed a man of real honour and courage. He spoke to Putin because he was trusted to do so, despite what the French haters would have you believe he is a fine man
    Indeed, Zelensky specifically asked Macron to talk to Putin after the invasion:

    "Some pretty incredible footage of Macron talking to Zelensky on the morning of the invasion, when the scale of the full-scale Russian assault on Ukraine was becoming clear."

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1567518365761011712?t=B6TYzdZThHbtlAjMpt8Vxw&s=19
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited September 2022

    This is such a strange day, I feel like a bit of an emotional wreck.
    Had an interesting dinner in Mayfair with figures from journalism and polling. By no means a left leaning audience or speakers but the consensus view is that the Tories are screwed, 15% chance of forming the next government. Great news from my point of view although it's hard to feel happy about anything this evening. Also - who would want to run this country after the next election? Talk about a poison chalice.
    The other thing - extraordinary crowds at Green Park tube, obviously come from the Palace. Mood strangely exuberant, not sombre, in line with eye witness accounts from similar past events. The public love this kind of thing. People like the sense of connection that comes with it, I think.
    Final thought - is Leon accounted for? I can't believe he really went on a 15km walk with only a bottle of white wine to drink - feels like more of his mythos under construction - but I do hope he is okay. By any rational benchmark he is utterly reprehensible but he is ours.

    London professionals always seems to underestimate the chances of the Tories winning the next election. I'd put it at 40-45%. 15% is too low IMO.

    Hope Leon's okay after his trek.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    This is such a strange day, I feel like a bit of an emotional wreck.
    Had an interesting dinner in Mayfair with figures from journalism and polling. By no means a left leaning audience or speakers but the consensus view is that the Tories are screwed, 15% chance of forming the next government. Great news from my point of view although it's hard to feel happy about anything this evening. Also - who would want to run this country after the next election? Talk about a poison chalice.
    The other thing - extraordinary crowds at Green Park tube, obviously come from the Palace. Mood strangely exuberant, not sombre, in line with eye witness accounts from similar past events. The public love this kind of thing. People like the sense of connection that comes with it, I think.
    Final thought - is Leon accounted for? I can't believe he really went on a 15km walk with only a bottle of white wine to drink - feels like more of his mythos under construction - but I do hope he is okay. By any rational benchmark he is utterly reprehensible but he is ours.

    Yes @leon has reached the safety of a new hotel bar.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,964
    edited September 2022

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    It’s surely not inappropriate that a period of mourning is observed. I think 10 days too long but them’s the breaks in a 1000-year-old monarchy.
    10 days is needed to transport the body back from Scotland, have the lying in state next week and the full State Funeral on Monday week which will be a public holiday.

    Heads of State from around the world will be there in one of the biggest gatherings of world leaders for years not just in the UK
    The funeral will not be a public holiday unless they make that change during the planning. As currently set out it will not be
    The day of the funeral as a weekday will be a public holiday and national day of mourning I can assure you, though am not going too much into how I know that
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Scott_xP said:

    Remarkable statement from President Macron. Hard to imagine a contemporary British prime minister being as gracious about a great French figure passing. https://twitter.com/EdwardGLuce/status/1567976520404336640/photo/1

    Great tribute. Macron is, and always has been, a class act. Much classier than our recent leaders.
    The reaction to Ukraine invasion from him showed a man of real honour and courage. He spoke to Putin because he was trusted to do so, despite what the French haters would have you believe he is a fine man
    God knows what they talked about for an hour at a time several times. I bet Putin is a bit of a rambler.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,329

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    And yet my 16 year old daughter seems genuinely a bit shocked and sad
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    It’s surely not inappropriate that a period of mourning is observed. I think 10 days too long but them’s the breaks in a 1000-year-old monarchy.
    10 days is needed to transport the body back from Scotland, have the lying in state next week and the full State Funeral on Monday week which will be a public holiday.

    Heads of State from around the world will be there in one of the biggest gatherings of world leaders for years not just in the UK
    The funeral will not be a public holiday unless they make that change during the planning. As currently set out it will not be
    Pretty sure it will be a holiday.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,053

    Here’s another question.
    What happens to all the Queen’s patronages?
    Do they all just lapse, or are they divvied up among surviving royals?

    They lapse, but since she cared about them I expect that in practice they then get first dibs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    dixiedean said:

    moonshine said:

    Elizabeth the Great is a tag that seems to be sticking on the BBC.

    Bit unfair on the first one.
    Absolutely. She (the first one) was a major figure with real regnal power. E2R was purely symbolic. There is a danger of dragging her into disrepute by going OTT.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    "Relevant to their lives"

    What exactly does this mean?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    I wouldn't have, but nations cancel stuff when heads of state die, I don't know why you are so incredibly upset by that. It's up to the organisers to decide what they want to do, I may not agree with their choices but I don't think it is worth getting so angry about either, no one as far we can tell is forcing them to cancel anything. So if you must be as angry as you appear to be about it, direct it solely at the organisers, not the occasion, the occasion is not mandating it.

    We have spend the last two and a half years closing stuff down and telling people they can’t do stuff.

    Let people make their own choices.

    So, if one team doesn’t want to play, what should the league do?

    Face it, London Bridge is down, and events are going to be cancelled for the next 10 days.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,053
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    I've always liked dwelling on the practicalities behind grand events. Like, who sets up the sound system for the Papal Conclaves? Who organised the bottles of water in the media room for the Taliban press conference after taking Kabul?

    I can just imagine someone at Buckingham Palace frantically hunting round for the headed paper for the official notification, or contacting someone in IT as the printer was bust.

    Ha yes. I’ve been that IT guy in the background on too many work occasions. It’s a big responsibility, to know things that only the CEO knows and not f… it up.

    Interesting that the PM got the message at 16:30 today, two hours before the rest of us, and while the royal plane occupants were still in the car to Balmoral.
    Jacinda Ardern said she was woken up by a policeman waving a torch in her face at 4:50am NZ time, ie 5:50pm UK.

    Having said that they might have waited until a “reasonable hour” to wake her.
    That was about as reasonable an hour as she could have expected. 40 minutes later and it was on the news. Sometimes these things happen in the middle of the night, as with the death of Diana.
    Agree with every word, but rolling it back to the first post… a policeman with a torch in her face? Feels a bit dramatic.

    One of her security squad trying not to wake her husband while at the same time helping reassure her it's not an intruder?
    The intruder thing is what I was thinking of. Don’t know about you but if I’m woken up with a torch in my face I think I’d be kicking and screaming, and thinking “intruder”.

    Minor point I know tonight, just intrigued me.

    You know that you’re alone in the house. Presumably the PM of New Zealand knows that she isn’t, and that there’s established protocol if she needs to be woken in the middle of the night?
    No, I’ve thought about this. My wife sleeps on the door side of the bed and so will always get disturbed by the burglar first.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    The diplomatic niceties still intact

    Vladimir Putin has written to King Charles following the death of the Queen.

    The Russian president conveyed his condolences despite the ongoing conflict in Ukraine and the Queen’s support for its people.

    The Russian leader’s note to the new king read: ‘Your Majesty, please accept our deepest condolences on the passing of Queen Elizabeth II.

    ‘The most important events in the recent history of the United Kingdom are inextricably linked with the name of Her Majesty.

    ‘For many decades, Elizabeth II rightfully enjoyed the love and respect of her subjects, as well as authority on the world stage.

    ‘I wish you courage and perseverance in the face of this heavy, irreparable loss.

    ‘I ask you to convey the words of sincere sympathy and support to the members of the royal family and all the people of Great Britain.’


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/08/queen-elizabeth-ii-dead-vladimir-putin-writes-to-king-charles-17331238/
  • Liz Truss is going to win on ideas, not on being interested or engaging.
  • MattW said:

    Pedant question.

    Charles Statement:
    I know her loss will be deeply felt throughout the country, the Realms, and the Commonwealth, and by countless people around the world.

    What, in 2022, are the Realms?

    NZ, Canada, Australia and about a dozen more.
    UK, NZ, Canada, Australia, Jamaica, Papua New Guinea, Antigua & Barbuda, Bahamas, Belize, Grenada, Saint Kitts & Nevis, Saint Lucia, St Vincent & the Grenadines, Solomon Islands, and Tuvalu.
    Also Lord of Man, and Duke of Normandy (re: Channel Islands).
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    It’s surely not inappropriate that a period of mourning is observed. I think 10 days too long but them’s the breaks in a 1000-year-old monarchy.
    10 days is needed to transport the body back from Scotland, have the lying in state next week and the full State Funeral on Monday week which will be a public holiday.

    Heads of State from around the world will be there in one of the biggest gatherings of world leaders for years not just in the UK
    The funeral will not be a public holiday unless they make that change during the planning. As currently set out it will not be
    The day of the funeral as a weekday will be a public holiday and national day of mourning I can assure you, though am not going too much into how I know that
    I will not be remotely surprised if it is, i was just pointing out that unless and until a bank holiday is announced, its not currently set to be
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Nigeria between 1 and 2?
  • Scott_xP said:

    Remarkable statement from President Macron. Hard to imagine a contemporary British prime minister being as gracious about a great French figure passing. https://twitter.com/EdwardGLuce/status/1567976520404336640/photo/1

    Great tribute. Macron is, and always has been, a class act. Much classier than our recent leaders.
    Though to be fair, he doesn't have an election coming up. Our PM did when she said what she did.

    What does it say about us as a nation, or even Conservatives as a party, that she thought her comments were a vote winner?
    Drop the politics for a night, Macron has said all sorts of things in the right contexts about British PMs too.

    Saying one thing in the cut and thrust of politics, is completely different to what people say in a moment of tragedy.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,063
    edited September 2022

    biggles said:

    The absolute state of cancelling sporting matches when matches ARE ACTUALLY BEING PLAYED NOW. Either a principle applies or it doesn’t.

    (It shouldn’t, if people don’t want to watch a match they are under no obligation to do so)

    There is a difference. By 1830 it was too late to safely cancel the match.

    Not so. Games have been cancelled at such short notice many many times in the past. However they were right not to cancel it, those who didn’t want to attend didn’t need to do so.

    You simply do not reflect the mood of the nation and while you are entitled to your views you are unlikely to have an effect on the next 10 days mourning for the Queen
    How many people attended the game at Old Trafford?
    I assume 60,000+ but most would have either been in the ground or on their way when the announcement was made

    The minutes silence was observed impeccably with lots of spectators visibly upset

    You could have heard a pin drop

    As I said you are very much a minority and the next 10 days will demonstrate to all of us and the world how much the Queen was loved and admired

    Of course there are those who don't support the monarchy but that is their choice and best they do not to watch too much TV as is going to be wall to wall coverage for days
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Presumably those who support the cancellation of the sporting schedule also support the foreclosure of all work places and retailers simultaneously?

    Who are you even arguing with with this stuff? You seem to be saying that organisations are being forced to cancel things (which they clearly aren't, since some are not going to), and now that there can be no differences between any sort of event, but that a single policy must apply for everything? Even though, as I said, advice in these matters is generally to consider what is appropriate within the period, rather than provide a set list of X and Y must happen and Z must not. Certainly it will advise certain things would be preferred not to. But why act like if someone does think a sporting event should be cancelled (and I don't care if they do or don't, I think it is up to them) that that must mean they support closing everything? That's not even extending the logic to absurdity, it's just an unconnected point.
    No it’s not unconnected at all. People like cancelling stuff that they aren’t bothered about. So if they don’t have tickets to the Test or the football, they might like cancelling those. But they don’t want to close their local off licence and supermarkets because they want wine and food.

    Give over with the cancelling shit. If the players refuse to play or fans refuse to attend (no evidence so far of that, quite the opposite…) , cancel the games, otherwise carry on.
    It is entirely unconnected, you're really angry and for some reason you've decided that if one thing is cancelled it means everything must be cancelled, as if there is no possibility people

    could judge things on a case by case basis. There's no logic to that at all, life is not one size fits all.


    You are also really confusing me, since you are


    acting like they are being forced to close and what an outrage that is, but they aren't.

    Can you run past me the ‘case’ for football matches being cancelled?

    Why not simply cancel events if people refuse to staff or attend them?

    No evidence of that so far, how many people were at Old Trafford tonight? Did the players refuse to play?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,964

    HYUFD said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    Yes well unfortunately too many 30s and under are narcissists who can't see the importance of much beyond their latest Instagram post
    That's rather rude about my offspring! They read Marx and Tolstoy rather than posting on Instagram (for all you know).
    Well if they read Marx rather than post on Instagram they are certainly not typical of their generation
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Jamaica?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,718
    moonshine said:

    Elizabeth the Great is a tag that seems to be sticking on the BBC.

    Not sure she would have approved. She might have liked Elizabeth the Humble.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Jamaica 4th
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Are you going to work in the morning?
    I don't work so no i am not
    If i did - yes i would
    I am not sure what to do. I have a case calling in Dumfries by webex. There has been no official indication that it is not happening so I had better turn up. For all the alleged plans there is some confusion about this sort of thing.
  • The Department for Education (DfE) has said schools and further education colleges in England should remain open as normal during the official mourning period following the Queen’s death, until further notice.

    In a message to principals and heads, the DfE said it would issue further guidance on closures after details of the funeral are confirmed by the Royal household.

    The DfE said: “Schools and Further Education settings should remain open. While normal attendance is expected, headteachers continue to have the power to authorise leaves of absence for pupils in exceptional circumstances.”

    It said schools may want to “consider conducting special activities, holding assemblies or adapting planned lessons” to commemorate the Queen’s life during the mourning period.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2022/sep/08/queen-elizabeth-ii-dies-royals-monarchy-latest-news-updates?page=with:block-631a5ab38f0804237ace5581#block-631a5ab38f0804237ace5581
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Remarkable statement from President Macron. Hard to imagine a contemporary British prime minister being as gracious about a great French figure passing. https://twitter.com/EdwardGLuce/status/1567976520404336640/photo/1

    Great tribute. Macron is, and always has been, a class act. Much classier than our recent leaders.
    The reaction to Ukraine invasion from him showed a man of real honour and courage. He spoke to Putin because he was trusted to do so, despite what the French haters would have you believe he is a fine man
    Indeed, Zelensky specifically asked Macron to talk to Putin after the invasion:

    "Some pretty incredible footage of Macron talking to Zelensky on the morning of the invasion, when the scale of the full-scale Russian assault on Ukraine was becoming clear."

    https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1567518365761011712?t=B6TYzdZThHbtlAjMpt8Vxw&s=19
    Wow, not seen that before. Astonishing footage.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    kle4 said:

    Presumably those who support the cancellation of the sporting schedule also support the foreclosure of all work places and retailers simultaneously?

    Who are you even arguing with with this stuff? You seem to be saying that organisations are being forced to cancel things (which they clearly aren't, since some are not going to), and now that there can be no differences between any sort of event, but that a single policy must apply for everything? Even though, as I said, advice in these matters is generally to consider what is appropriate within the period, rather than provide a set list of X and Y must happen and Z must not. Certainly it will advise certain things would be preferred not to. But why act like if someone does think a sporting event should be cancelled (and I don't care if they do or don't, I think it is up to them) that that must mean they support closing everything? That's not even extending the logic to absurdity, it's just an unconnected point.
    No it’s not unconnected at all. People like cancelling stuff that they aren’t bothered about. So if they don’t have tickets to the Test or the football, they might like cancelling those. But they don’t want to close their local off licence and supermarkets because they want wine and food.

    Give over with the cancelling shit. If the players refuse to play or fans refuse to attend (no evidence so far of that, quite the opposite…) , cancel the games, otherwise carry on.
    So you think the cancellations are to amuse people? That those taking the decisions enjoy it?
    I’d suggest take a step back and think about it a bit. A few days with the nation mourning the head of state, who has been head of state for 70 (seventy!) years.
    Nobody is forced to attend or indeed play in a football match, should they be unwilling to do so, cancel them by all means.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    And yet my 16 year old daughter seems genuinely a bit shocked and sad
    You survived the trek then.
  • Leon said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    And yet my 16 year old daughter seems genuinely a bit shocked and sad
    What, that she's your daughter?

    Oh I see, you mean about HMQ. Sorry.
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Remarkable statement from President Macron. Hard to imagine a contemporary British prime minister being as gracious about a great French figure passing. https://twitter.com/EdwardGLuce/status/1567976520404336640/photo/1

    Great tribute. Macron is, and always has been, a class act. Much classier than our recent leaders.
    The reaction to Ukraine invasion from him showed a man of real honour and courage. He spoke to Putin because he was trusted to do so, despite what the French haters would have you believe he is a fine man
    God knows what they talked about for an hour at a time several times. I bet Putin is a bit of a rambler.
    I'm surprised you can talk to Putin for an hour without him cutting you off. I'd have lasted less than a minute.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    Yes well unfortunately too many 30s and under are narcissists who can't see the importance of much beyond their latest Instagram post
    That's rather rude about my offspring! They read Marx and Tolstoy rather than posting on Instagram (for all you know).
    Well if they read Marx rather than post on Instagram they are certainly not typical of their generation
    Obviously thoroughly shining examples of hard work and endeavour.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Carnyx said:

    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Nigeria between 1 and 2?
    Not a commonwealth realm (he is not head of state)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited September 2022

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Presumably those who support the cancellation of the sporting schedule also support the foreclosure of all work places and retailers simultaneously?

    Who are you even arguing with with this stuff? You seem to be saying that organisations are being forced to cancel things (which they clearly aren't, since some are not going to), and now that there can be no differences between any sort of event, but that a single policy must apply for everything? Even though, as I said, advice in these matters is generally to consider what is appropriate within the period, rather than provide a set list of X and Y must happen and Z must not. Certainly it will advise certain things would be preferred not to. But why act like if someone does think a sporting event should be cancelled (and I don't care if they do or don't, I think it is up to them) that that must mean they support closing everything? That's not even extending the logic to absurdity, it's just an unconnected point.
    No it’s not unconnected at all. People like cancelling stuff that they aren’t bothered about. So if they don’t have tickets to the Test or the football, they might like cancelling those. But they don’t want to close their local off licence and supermarkets because they want wine and food.

    Give over with the cancelling shit. If the players refuse to play or fans refuse to attend (no evidence so far of that, quite the opposite…) , cancel the games, otherwise carry on.
    It is entirely unconnected, you're really angry and for some reason you've decided that if one thing is cancelled it means everything must be cancelled, as if there is no possibility people

    could judge things on a case by case basis. There's no logic to that at all, life is not one size fits all.


    You are also really confusing me, since you are


    acting like they are being forced to close and what an outrage that is, but they aren't.

    Can you run past me the ‘case’ for football matches being cancelled?

    Why would I do that when I don't think they should be cancelled? But I also won't throw a tantrum if the footballing authorities decide they do want to, nor would I claim that if they did then everything else in the country must do the same.

    There will be guidance, but they can do what they want. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    It’s surely not inappropriate that a period of mourning is observed. I think 10 days too long but them’s the breaks in a 1000-year-old monarchy.
    10 days is needed to transport the body back from Scotland, have the lying in state next week and the full State Funeral on Monday week which will be a public holiday.

    Heads of State from around the world will be there in one of the biggest gatherings of world leaders for years not just in the UK
    The funeral will not be a public holiday unless they make that change during the planning. As currently set out it will not be
    The day of the funeral as a weekday will be a public holiday and national day of mourning I can assure you, though am not going too much into how I know that
    I will not be remotely surprised if it is, i was just pointing out that unless and until a bank holiday is announced, its not currently set to be
    Bit of a bugger for all the patients I have booked.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Jamaica?
    Long way away, geographically.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,964
    kle4 said:

    The diplomatic niceties still intact

    Vladimir Putin has written to King Charles following the death of the Queen.

    The Russian president conveyed his condolences despite the ongoing conflict in Ukraine and the Queen’s support for its people.

    The Russian leader’s note to the new king read: ‘Your Majesty, please accept our deepest condolences on the passing of Queen Elizabeth II.

    ‘The most important events in the recent history of the United Kingdom are inextricably linked with the name of Her Majesty.

    ‘For many decades, Elizabeth II rightfully enjoyed the love and respect of her subjects, as well as authority on the world stage.

    ‘I wish you courage and perseverance in the face of this heavy, irreparable loss.

    ‘I ask you to convey the words of sincere sympathy and support to the members of the royal family and all the people of Great Britain.’


    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/08/queen-elizabeth-ii-dead-vladimir-putin-writes-to-king-charles-17331238/

    Putin does the right thing for once
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Andy_JS said:

    This is such a strange day, I feel like a bit of an emotional wreck.
    Had an interesting dinner in Mayfair with figures from journalism and polling. By no means a left leaning audience or speakers but the consensus view is that the Tories are screwed, 15% chance of forming the next government. Great news from my point of view although it's hard to feel happy about anything this evening. Also - who would want to run this country after the next election? Talk about a poison chalice.
    The other thing - extraordinary crowds at Green Park tube, obviously come from the Palace. Mood strangely exuberant, not sombre, in line with eye witness accounts from similar past events. The public love this kind of thing. People like the sense of connection that comes with it, I think.
    Final thought - is Leon accounted for? I can't believe he really went on a 15km walk with only a bottle of white wine to drink - feels like more of his mythos under construction - but I do hope he is okay. By any rational benchmark he is utterly reprehensible but he is ours.

    London professionals always seems to underestimate the chances of the Tories winning the next election. I'd put it at 40-45%. 15% is too low IMO.

    Hope Leon's okay after his trek.
    Although his expiring on the same day as HMQ would be very in character attention seeking?
  • carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    the UK is a Commonwealth realm…
  • The Queen made 10 visits to NZ.

    She was in the country for and paid tribute to the victims of the “Tangiwai Disaster”, a rail disaster which killed 151 passengers travelling home on Christmas Eve 1953, one of those events that define national memory. Tangiwai can be translated as “weeping waters”.

    In 1986 she was confronted with the bare bum of a Māori protester as she toured Napier in a motorcade. Earlier, in Auckland, she had been pelted with eggs by two women during a meeting with school children.

    The Queen gamely declared that she preferred NZ eggs “for breakfast”.
  • Andy_JS said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    "Relevant to their lives"

    What exactly does this mean?
    What it says.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Carnyx said:

    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Nigeria between 1 and 2?
    Nigeria would (if it were correct) be miles out in front, its over 100 million, more than the UK
  • Andy_JS said:

    This is such a strange day, I feel like a bit of an emotional wreck.
    Had an interesting dinner in Mayfair with figures from journalism and polling. By no means a left leaning audience or speakers but the consensus view is that the Tories are screwed, 15% chance of forming the next government. Great news from my point of view although it's hard to feel happy about anything this evening. Also - who would want to run this country after the next election? Talk about a poison chalice.
    The other thing - extraordinary crowds at Green Park tube, obviously come from the Palace. Mood strangely exuberant, not sombre, in line with eye witness accounts from similar past events. The public love this kind of thing. People like the sense of connection that comes with it, I think.
    Final thought - is Leon accounted for? I can't believe he really went on a 15km walk with only a bottle of white wine to drink - feels like more of his mythos under construction - but I do hope he is okay. By any rational benchmark he is utterly reprehensible but he is ours.

    London professionals always seems to underestimate the chances of the Tories winning the next election. I'd put it at 40-45%. 15% is too low IMO.

    Hope Leon's okay after his trek.
    Yeah maybe. My thought too. But the guy who said it was a Tory and a pollster not just some random London Remoaner.
  • This is all extremely sad.

    But the BBC coverage now is absolute cringe
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Jamaica 4th
    No, and the answer is not 4th. I Should have been more specific…
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    It’s surely not inappropriate that a period of mourning is observed. I think 10 days too long but them’s the breaks in a 1000-year-old monarchy.
    10 days is needed to transport the body back from Scotland, have the lying in state next week and the full State Funeral on Monday week which will be a public holiday.

    Heads of State from around the world will be there in one of the biggest gatherings of world leaders for years not just in the UK
    Not sure if you are correct as I understand she will lie in state in Holyrood Palace for 3 days before being returned to London by train on Tuesday
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659
    carnforth said:

    Carnyx said:

    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Nigeria between 1 and 2?
    Not a commonwealth realm (he is not head of state)
    We are looking for a Commonwealth country of population 30 million-ish, with the Queen/King HoS.

    PNG?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    carnforth said:

    Carnyx said:

    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Nigeria between 1 and 2?
    Not a commonwealth realm (he is not head of state)
    Not until Liz Truss buffs up the military and puts them to use!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    I wouldn't have, but nations cancel stuff when heads of state die, I don't know why you are so incredibly upset by that. It's up to the organisers to decide what they want to do, I may not agree with their choices but I don't think it is worth getting so angry about either, no one as far we can tell is forcing them to cancel anything. So if you must be as angry as you appear to be about it, direct it solely at the organisers, not the occasion, the occasion is not mandating it.

    We have spend the last two and a half years closing stuff down and telling people they can’t do stuff.

    Let people make their own choices.

    So, if one team doesn’t want to play, what should the league do?

    Face it, London Bridge is down, and events are going to be cancelled for the next 10 days.

    Then cancelling is valid in that scenario. Do you have any evidence that teams are unwilling to play?

    (See @Foxy’s post above.)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,053
    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Papua New Guinea. Third?
  • A different world.

    I have been around a long time and all my life I was brought up to respect Elizabeth II. Which I always did.

    In the pub tonight, they were showing the football then flashed over to Sky News for 5 mins. Then back to the football. No one seemed interested.

    A different world 😡😡😡
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    the UK is a Commonwealth realm…
    Correct, my mistake. But not the answer. It lies between 1) and 2) or between 2) and 3).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    It’s surely not inappropriate that a period of mourning is observed. I think 10 days too long but them’s the breaks in a 1000-year-old monarchy.
    10 days is needed to transport the body back from Scotland, have the lying in state next week and the full State Funeral on Monday week which will be a public holiday.

    Heads of State from around the world will be there in one of the biggest gatherings of world leaders for years not just in the UK
    The funeral will not be a public holiday unless they make that change during the planning. As currently set out it will not be
    The day of the funeral as a weekday will be a public holiday and national day of mourning I can assure you, though am not going too much into how I know that
    I will not be remotely surprised if it is, i was just pointing out that unless and until a bank holiday is announced, its not currently set to be
    Bit of a bugger for all the patients I have booked.
    Very glad my 4th covid jab is on the 21st.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,404
    Leon said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    And yet my 16 year old daughter seems genuinely a bit shocked and sad
    And my 81 year old Mother is delighted that a parasite has gone.
    Wasn't an easy phone call at all.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Sad to think Diana might have been Queen Consort now.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    DavidL said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Are you going to work in the morning?
    I don't work so no i am not
    If i did - yes i would
    I am not sure what to do. I have a case calling in Dumfries by webex. There has been no official indication that it is not happening so I had better turn up. For all the alleged plans there is some confusion about this sort of thing.
    I think work and retail is supposed to go on as normal. social, sporting and leisure events on a case by case decision for the organisers or organisations to decide
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    This is all extremely sad.

    But the BBC coverage now is absolute cringe

    Time to turn off then.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Carnyx said:

    carnforth said:

    The four most populous of King Charles III’s commonwealth realms are, in descending order:

    1) Canada
    2) Australia
    3) New Zealand

    I missed one out - what is it, and in which position does it sit? No Googling…

    Nigeria between 1 and 2?
    Not a commonwealth realm (he is not head of state)
    We are looking for a Commonwealth country of population 30 million-ish, with the Queen/King HoS.

    PNG?
    Winner winner chicken dinner!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited September 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    "Relevant to their lives"

    What exactly does this mean?
    They have no interest in the Royal Family and the existence of the Royal Family bears no direct relationship to how they run their lives.

    Don't forget people below a certain age don't watch live stream TV.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    It’s surely not inappropriate that a period of mourning is observed. I think 10 days too long but them’s the breaks in a 1000-year-old monarchy.
    10 days is needed to transport the body back from Scotland, have the lying in state next week and the full State Funeral on Monday week which will be a public holiday.

    Heads of State from around the world will be there in one of the biggest gatherings of world leaders for years not just in the UK
    Oooh I’ve been looking for a betting angle on this, all day. At about 2pm, I was going to propose a market on “hours until QE’s death is announced.” Then I realised I wasn’t a dickhead and scrubbed my post.

    Anyway, I think I can get away with this;

    To attend the funeral?

    Xi Jinping

    Yes 10/1
    No 1/10

    Bolsonaro

    Yes 1/5
    No 5/1

    Putin

    Yes 100/1
    No 1/100

    Zelensky

    Yes Evens
    No Evens

    Others on request.

    Are my odds wrong, PB?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    DavidL said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Are you going to work in the morning?
    I don't work so no i am not
    If i did - yes i would
    I am not sure what to do. I have a case calling in Dumfries by webex. There has been no official indication that it is not happening so I had better turn up. For all the alleged plans there is some confusion about this sort of thing.
    I think work and retail is supposed to go on as normal. social, sporting and leisure events on a case by case decision for the organisers or organisations to decide
    The horror!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    A bit awkward for Barbados who ditched the monarchy a few months ago.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    I regularly walked 20km in my thirties without even a bottle of white wine, though usually in rather rainy places.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,964

    Andy_JS said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    "Relevant to their lives"

    What exactly does this mean?
    They have no interest in the Royal family and the existence of the royal family bears no direct relationship to how they run their lives.

    Don't forget people below a certain age don't watch live stream TV.
    They do check Internet news and twitter however
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    edited September 2022
    Unfortunately, even the capital of PNG is not considered safe for tourists. Also the country with the some of most recent alleged cannibalism.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    And yet my 16 year old daughter seems genuinely a bit shocked and sad
    And my 81 year old Mother is delighted that a parasite has gone.
    Wasn't an easy phone call at all.
    Ivermectin did the trick then?
  • This is all extremely sad.

    But the BBC coverage now is absolute cringe

    Time to turn off then.
    It's off, love the dog tubbs
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Paging @TSE

    Do we know the code name that replaces London Bridge?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    biggles said:

    The absolute state of cancelling sporting matches when matches ARE ACTUALLY BEING PLAYED NOW. Either a principle applies or it doesn’t.

    (It shouldn’t, if people don’t want to watch a match they are under no obligation to do so)

    There is a difference. By 1830 it was too late to safely cancel the match.

    Not so. Games have been cancelled at such short notice many many times in the past. However they were right not to cancel it, those who didn’t want to attend didn’t need to do so.

    You simply do not reflect the mood of the nation and while you are entitled to your views you are unlikely to have an effect on the next 10 days mourning for the Queen
    How many people attended the game at Old Trafford?
    I assume 60,000+ but most would have either been in the ground or on their way when the announcement was made

    The minutes silence was observed impeccably with lots of spectators visibly upset

    You could have heard a pin drop

    As I said you are very much a minority and the next 10 days will demonstrate to all of us and the world how much the Queen was loved and admired

    Of course there are those who don't support the monarchy but that is their choice and best they do not to watch too much TV as is going to be wall to wall coverage for days
    I admire her actually. I rather liked the silence which as you say was beautifully observed. A much better way to commemorate her death rather than just cancelling stuff.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,964

    A different world.

    I have been around a long time and all my life I was brought up to respect Elizabeth II. Which I always did.

    In the pub tonight, they were showing the football then flashed over to Sky News for 5 mins. Then back to the football. No one seemed interested.

    A different world 😡😡😡

    All British football is cancelled from tomorrow but if you go to the pub you go to meet people not watch wall to wall news you can watch at home
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    "Relevant to their lives"

    What exactly does this mean?
    They have no interest in the Royal family and the existence of the royal family bears no direct relationship to how they run their lives.

    Don't forget people below a certain age don't watch live stream TV.
    They do check Internet news and twitter however
    Yes, but they can hop to the bits that interest them. No need to sit through a Witchell to, erm, lead them to an understanding of their duties.


    And twitter for youngsters? I'm not at all sure about your confident assumptions.
  • dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    I appreciate, and to some extent share, the sadness expressed by most posters tonight. Interestingly, though, I've talked to all four of my children tonight, all in their early thirties. I was surprised both by how unmoved they were, and more tellingly, by their lack of interest. They just don't see HMQ as relevant to their lives; they think she's done well to get to 96, and that the reaction to her death is a bit over the top. They weren't derogatory about her in the slightest - just not interested. I do wonder if it's a bit of a generational thing - I guess most PB posters are somewhat older.

    And yet my 16 year old daughter seems genuinely a bit shocked and sad
    And my 81 year old Mother is delighted that a parasite has gone.
    Wasn't an easy phone call at all.
    Yeah my 77 year old mum complaining about all the "toadying and fawning to the ghastly royals" we have to look forward to. Certainly a range of views out there and hard to characterise it as young vs old, left vs right etc.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    I've always liked dwelling on the practicalities behind grand events. Like, who sets up the sound system for the Papal Conclaves? Who organised the bottles of water in the media room for the Taliban press conference after taking Kabul?

    I can just imagine someone at Buckingham Palace frantically hunting round for the headed paper for the official notification, or contacting someone in IT as the printer was bust.

    Ha yes. I’ve been that IT guy in the background on too many work occasions. It’s a big responsibility, to know things that only the CEO knows and not f… it up.

    Interesting that the PM got the message at 16:30 today, two hours before the rest of us, and while the royal plane occupants were still in the car to Balmoral.
    Jacinda Ardern said she was woken up by a policeman waving a torch in her face at 4:50am NZ time, ie 5:50pm UK.

    Having said that they might have waited until a “reasonable hour” to wake her.
    That was about as reasonable an hour as she could have expected. 40 minutes later and it was on the news. Sometimes these things happen in the middle of the night, as with the death of Diana.
    Agree with every word, but rolling it back to the first post… a policeman with a torch in her face? Feels a bit dramatic.

    One of her security squad trying not to wake her husband while at the same time helping reassure her it's not an intruder?
    The intruder thing is what I was thinking of. Don’t know about you but if I’m woken up with a torch in my face I think I’d be kicking and screaming, and thinking “intruder”.

    Minor point I know tonight, just intrigued me.

    You know that you’re alone in the house. Presumably the PM of New Zealand knows that she isn’t, and that there’s established protocol if she needs to be woken in the middle of the night?
    No, I’ve thought about this. My wife sleeps on the door side of the bed and so will always get disturbed by the burglar first.
    Yours sounds tougher* than mine. I'm always required to take the door side.

    *or loves you more than mine loves me? :disappointed:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,964

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    I mean the senior head of state in the world, head of a commonwealth of 2.5 billion of the worlds inhabitants and monarch for 70 years has died.
    The idea that some stuff wouldnt get cancelled for a bit is bizarre.

    Quite. The 'it's an old woman dying' stuff is just a bit dismissive of the fact its a head of state, and its the day of the event. Even if an event tomorrow was cancelled, well, it's the next full day after, I would be very surprised if things are not occasionally cancelled in such circumstances in other places.
    Why cancel them if people are happy to staff them and attend them?
    It’s surely not inappropriate that a period of mourning is observed. I think 10 days too long but them’s the breaks in a 1000-year-old monarchy.
    10 days is needed to transport the body back from Scotland, have the lying in state next week and the full State Funeral on Monday week which will be a public holiday.

    Heads of State from around the world will be there in one of the biggest gatherings of world leaders for years not just in the UK
    Not sure if you are correct as I understand she will lie in state in Holyrood Palace for 3 days before being returned to London by train on Tuesday
    Which is next week
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Andy_JS said:

    A bit awkward for Barbados who ditched the monarchy a few months ago.

    I respect their decision to be honest - there's several places that have been clear in their intention to drop the monarchy, and in the case of Jamaica have been promising to do it for at least 15 years and seemingly have the political consensus to (though the process is constitutionally trickier for them I think than Barbados), yet have not yet done it, possibly due to the Queen. At least Barbados just went 'Look, we want to do this, there's no reason to hold off any longer'.
This discussion has been closed.