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God save the Queen – politicalbetting.com

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  • MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    The funeral and coronation will be attended by dignitaries from across the world and the security will be vast

    Expect large parts of London closed on these two days as we witness the biggest events in decades
    Again, define "large parts". London is 607 square miles. What percentage of that do you think will be "closed"?
    I expect most of it to be closed
    Most of London's 607 square miles will be closed.

    ONLY ON PB.
    City of London is 2.9 km^2
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,198
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,255

    Ardent Republicans should have the decency to crawl under a stone at times such as these.

    Why? It's perfectly possible to feel sorry for the health of a frail old lady without supporting the institution.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,131
    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Sometimes a family crisis is what it takes to mend those fences. Unfortunately as soon as Harry goes back to LA the poison will begin dripping in his ear again and it all gets undone.
    It's hard to mend fences if there's a book coming and the concern that anything you say will be spun out to the media to keep the money rolling in.

    Anyway, the family will be focused on the new monarch and supporting him not worrying about those who have left.

    I rather liked H&M and quite understand why they might want a different life. But doing that and endlessly going on about the past in a "I'm not going to tell you about all the awful things but there's so much I could tell you" way becomes a bit tiresome frankly. As is the media endlessly going on about it.

    When your partner's family member dies or becomes seriously ill, your only job is to support and comfort them.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,494

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    Wasn't that so people could throw flowers at the hearse carrying Diana's coffin to the family estate?

    Similar thing will happen to the ECML so the Royal Train can inch its way down to London. Even as a republican I'm vaguely tempted to cycle to a spot with a decent view of the track.
    Why? To see a train go past in a few seconds?

    I find all this stuff mawkish and weird in the extreme TBH.
    Well the train will be going slowly. Could be quite a people-watching experience. Also a bit of a nod to my Grandad who worked on the railways at a time when they used to have railway staff guarding all the bridges over the line when the Royal Train went through.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,126

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    It would be nice if it drew a line under the lazy, NYT-style "Britain is a laughing stock" era of international coverage too.
    Johnson's exit helps with that too. Helps enormously.
    Yes, it was his bad luck that Trump came along and hating him became a proxy.
    Maybe but the opposite with me. My dislike for Johnson was leavened by my hatred of Trump. Johnson was rendered less ghastly via the comparison.

    Anyway, now they're both gone - sort of - so yay!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,569
    IshmaelZ said:

    Ardent Republicans should have the decency to crawl under a stone at times such as these.

    Piss off Walty, entirely unnecessary and inappropriate.
    Another troll methinks.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,255

    MISTY said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

    Many people would, yes, to ensure the bigotry was dealt with and didn't happen again.

    Shooting the messenger is the alternative.
    Indeed.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,448
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    Wasn't that so people could throw flowers at the hearse carrying Diana's coffin to the family estate?

    Similar thing will happen to the ECML so the Royal Train can inch its way down to London. Even as a republican I'm vaguely tempted to cycle to a spot with a decent view of the track.
    That railway line has overhead electric wires!
    I dont think she'll be travelling on the roof.
  • It's made me think of all the members of my family who were there at the start of her reign and watched the Coronation on the first tellies they had probably ever seen up close. Some I never met, but many I knew and loved and have now gone - my Dad, my grandparents, aunts and uncles.

    They were there at the start, just ordinary people who only a few years before had lived through the most traumatic events it is possible to imagine, huddled around a tiny black and white TV, watching it all happen as the rain fell outside.

    Now, 69 years later, it's my generation of the family and our kids watching on our big colour tellies, on our computers and on our phones, as it may well all be coming to an end. And the rain is falling outside.

    It's that link to the past through to today that the Queen represents for most of us - whether we are monarchists or republicans. It's not only about the country, it's about all our lives and the generations that come and then go. That's why this is such a big deal, why it is so sad.

    She has always been there. As everything else has changed, she has been there. Soon she won't be. It's quite hard to get your head round - at least for me.

    I am not expressing it well, I am not the writer some on here are, but I am sure you know what I mean.

    I remember some of my earliest possessions as Ladybird books made in the 1950s, with vivid antique-style coronation drawings of the Queen as the latest in the line of British monarchs, also associated in my mind with some words optimism about the Second Elizabethan Age, technology and modernity. The Queen *is* postwar Britain.
    My wife and I well remember the death of the King and the Queen's coronation in 1953

    She has been quite the most extraordinary servant to her country and will be greatly missed
    Absolutely.
    By the way, please don’t go leave off the full stops like that berk Leon.
    Not deliberate to be honest but I am quite old myself and more eccentric !!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,482
    edited September 8
    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I am not sure Truss as the incumbent will have the longer term bonus the monarch's passing once might have had. The World gets to know her early. And as so many have already said, what a mercy it will not happen on Johnson's watch.
  • pingping Posts: 3,186
    edited September 8

    Ardent Republicans should have the decency to crawl under a stone at times such as these.

    Right wingers who bang on about “cancel culture” show themselves up to be complete hypocrites. Shocker!

    Actually, this is even worse: pre-cancellation.

    I’m pretty ambivalent about the monarchy. I rather unenthusiastically went along to the platty jubes, organised by the elderly neighbours. But that’s about it, from me.

    I do care about free speech though, and you, my friend, are an arse.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,121

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Undoubtedly. Exactly how, we cannot say, though I suspect there is more upside for Truss than negative. She suddenly becomes first lady of the realm.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,255

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    The funeral and coronation will be attended by dignitaries from across the world and the security will be vast

    Expect large parts of London closed on these two days as we witness the biggest events in decades
    Again, define "large parts". London is 607 square miles. What percentage of that do you think will be "closed"?
    I expect most of it to be closed
    Most of London's 607 square miles will be closed.

    ONLY ON PB.
    City of London is 2.9 km^2
    True, one square mile ish. However it doesn't include Buck House or the Abbey so I'm not sure it will be the hotspot!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    MISTY said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

    Many people would, yes, to ensure the bigotry was dealt with and didn't happen again.

    Shooting the messenger is the alternative.
    But Barty, you have not a shred of credible evidence of bigotry. You just don't know. Do you make a habit of believing this sort of shit on the evidence of one person?
    Yes. If someone raises concerns, then the right thing to do is to try and in good faith address the concerns, not try to tear to shreds the person raising concerns.
    Right thing for who to do?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,569
    “Biden has been briefed”.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,519
    Some more good news from Ukraine.

    ⚡️Ukraine reportedly liberates Balakliia in Kharkiv Oblast.

    A video circulating on social media allegedly shows the Ukrainian flag installed on top of the district state administration building in the city of Balakliia.

    https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1567906488928317441
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    JACK_W said:

    May Almighty God Bless And Preserve The Life Of Our Sovereign Lady - Her Majesty The Queen.

    Amen.

    From 1 Samuel 8:10-18:

    "10 Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king.

    11 He said, 'This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots.

    12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots.

    13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers.

    14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants.

    15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants.

    16 Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use.

    17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves.

    18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.'
    "
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,977

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    Wasn't that so people could throw flowers at the hearse carrying Diana's coffin to the family estate?

    Similar thing will happen to the ECML so the Royal Train can inch its way down to London. Even as a republican I'm vaguely tempted to cycle to a spot with a decent view of the track.
    That railway line has overhead electric wires!
    I dont think she'll be travelling on the roof.
    I was thinking of people throwing stuff. Especially if it is a wet day, the wrapping is aluminized, etc. Or just debris gathering around the pantograph.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    It will work in her favour, provided she handles the speechifying and so on adequately, because people gravitate to the govt at times like this. Blair got a uge diana boost. Further down the road, it will fuel either a new Elizabethan era narrative, or be when everything went to shit, depending.
    Not sure about the Diana boost thing, though it probably cemented Blair as The PM, and forcefully showed Conservatives how irrelevant they were at that point. At the end of June 1997, ICM was giving Lab 61, Con 23. Now that's a new PM bounce.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,198

    MISTY said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

    Many people would, yes, to ensure the bigotry was dealt with and didn't happen again.

    Shooting the messenger is the alternative.
    Recollections may vary. Meghan isn't a trustworthy source, we know that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,301
    IshmaelZ said:

    Ardent Republicans should have the decency to crawl under a stone at times such as these.

    Piss off Walty, entirely unnecessary and inappropriate.
    Getting a ghost of the ghost of Harry Flashman vibe here, smarting from his team’s bleaching by Ajax nae doot.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,112

    IshmaelZ said:

    MISTY said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

    Many people would, yes, to ensure the bigotry was dealt with and didn't happen again.

    Shooting the messenger is the alternative.
    But Barty, you have not a shred of credible evidence of bigotry. You just don't know. Do you make a habit of believing this sort of shit on the evidence of one person?
    Yes. If someone raises concerns, then the right thing to do is to try and in good faith address the concerns, not try to tear to shreds the person raising concerns.
    Even if the "concerns" are blatantly raised in bad faith?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345
    Is this 6 o'clock announcement confirmed?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876

    The Queen has reigned for 30% of the USA’s existence.

    and 70% of the existence of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and NORTHERN Ireland.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,723

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I am not sure Truss as the incumbent will have the longer term bonus the monarch's passing once might have had. The World gets to know her early. And as so many have already said, what a mercy it will not happen on Johnson's
    watch.
    I just sense the electorate are ready for a change after 12 years of the Tories. Not sure any new leader, or any circumstances, would change that.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,676

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    10 days after she dies
    Bugger. That's my wedding anniversary.
    You already know when the Queen dies??
    My impression from talking to a few people who have been involved in planning these sorts of things (from the military perspective) is she has already died. Once that has happened they have to gather the family but also inform the Government's of all the states of which she is still head and then the rest of the Commonwealth.

    They are expecting the formal announcement will be made probably at 6pm.

    I don't know for sure but looking at the reaction in Parliament today and the behaviour of the media, it seems likely to me.
    Tbf I suspect you are right.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,977
    edited September 8

    The Queen has reigned for 30% of the USA’s existence.

    and 70% of the existence of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and NORTHERN Ireland.
    100% if you go by the annexation of Rockall.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,012
    AlistairM said:

    Some more good news from Ukraine.

    ⚡️Ukraine reportedly liberates Balakliia in Kharkiv Oblast.

    A video circulating on social media allegedly shows the Ukrainian flag installed on top of the district state administration building in the city of Balakliia.

    https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1567906488928317441

    What I fear:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,210

    Ardent Republicans should have the decency to crawl under a stone at times such as these.

    I'm not exactly Mr Frequent Poster myself, but someone with 11 posts to their name really shouldn't be lecturing others on what they may or may not do.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,519
    edited September 8

    AlistairM said:

    Some more good news from Ukraine.

    ⚡️Ukraine reportedly liberates Balakliia in Kharkiv Oblast.

    A video circulating on social media allegedly shows the Ukrainian flag installed on top of the district state administration building in the city of Balakliia.

    https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1567906488928317441

    What I fear:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
    Imperial stormtroopers weren't tweeting/telegramming how f*cked they were though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,081
    Trump Pushed Officials to Prosecute His Critics, Ex-U.S. Attorney Says
    Geoffrey S. Berman, who headed the Manhattan office, says in a book the Justice Department pushed cases, against John Kerry and others, to help Mr. Trump.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/08/nyregion/geoffrey-berman-trump-book.html?referringSource=articleShare
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited September 8
    Irrelevant but reporting anyway, Redfield also show no bounce yet 42 to 30, remains 12% lead
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,379
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
    There is a clear parallel with Blair who faced Diana's death a few months after coming to power, and I think did very well out of his reaction to it - The People's Princess and all that - which cemented him in people's minds as someone who could speak for the country and tap into and convey a feeling of strong emotion.
    I think there were indications beforehand that he might be good at that sort of thing, but the fact he was so good at it was a surprise. I think it would perhaps be a bigger surprise if Truss were to rise to the occasion as effectively, but if she does it could help her a lot.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,012

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    Wasn't that so people could throw flowers at the hearse carrying Diana's coffin to the family estate?

    Similar thing will happen to the ECML so the Royal Train can inch its way down to London. Even as a republican I'm vaguely tempted to cycle to a spot with a decent view of the track.
    Why? To see a train go past in a few seconds?

    I find all this stuff mawkish and weird in the extreme TBH.
    Well the train will be going slowly. Could be quite a people-watching experience. Also a bit of a nod to my Grandad who worked on the railways at a time when they used to have railway staff guarding all the bridges over the line when the Royal Train went through.
    I think I might go and see the train; if it takes the reasonable route, I know a place that might be quiet with SOE connections, which might feel apt given HMQ's connection with the military and WW2. But not if my son wants to go, as it's a bit of a trek...

    (As ever, I expect thousands of people will congregate in a few easy-to-access places, whilst somewhere a few hundred metres from roads will be deserted.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,977
    edited September 8

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    Wasn't that so people could throw flowers at the hearse carrying Diana's coffin to the family estate?

    Similar thing will happen to the ECML so the Royal Train can inch its way down to London. Even as a republican I'm vaguely tempted to cycle to a spot with a decent view of the track.
    Why? To see a train go past in a few seconds?

    I find all this stuff mawkish and weird in the extreme TBH.
    Well the train will be going slowly. Could be quite a people-watching experience. Also a bit of a nod to my Grandad who worked on the railways at a time when they used to have railway staff guarding all the bridges over the line when the Royal Train went through.
    I think I might go and see the train; if it takes the reasonable route, I know a place that might be quiet with SOE connections, which might feel apt given HMQ's connection with the military and WW2. But not if my son wants to go, as it's a bit of a trek...

    (As ever, I expect thousands of people will congregate in a few easy-to-access places, whilst somewhere a few hundred metres from roads will be deserted.)
    ....
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,131
    edited September 8

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    Meghan not going to Balmoral

    Seems odd she wouldn't accompany her husband.
    To be fair, they do have kids. I’d understand if she’s with them.
    Yeah. I'm not her biggest fan, but seems reasonable enough to me.
    They're not here.

    IshmaelZ said:

    MISTY said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

    Many people would, yes, to ensure the bigotry was dealt with and didn't happen again.

    Shooting the messenger is the alternative.
    But Barty, you have not a shred of credible evidence of bigotry. You just don't know. Do you make a habit of believing this sort of shit on the evidence of one person?
    Yes. If someone raises concerns, then the right thing to do is to try and in good faith address the concerns, not try to tear to shreds the person raising concerns.
    You are assuming the concern raised was real. Now it may be. But if so you'd raise it at the time not a couple of years later on prime time TV.

    Plus - and I speak as an investigator here - one of the first things I would want to clarify would be the inconsistencies between what he said and she said about the incident during that interview. He said it only happened once and to him. She says it was multiple times but she was not present.

    So which is it?

    The worry is that vague non-specific allegations are made in a way that is hurtful and damaging but also in a way which makes them hard to investigate and distrustful of what you are told and the motives of the person doing it and also whether further conversations will be used for purposes other than what they are intended for.

    Trust is needed when you are trying to sort out sensitive issues like this. Takes time to build and can be very quickly destroyed.

    These sorts of investigations are some of the hardest to deal with. People going to the press (and I've had my share of those too) make everything very much harder.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
    There is a clear parallel with Blair who faced Diana's death a few months after coming to power, and I think did very well out of his reaction to it - The People's Princess and all that - which cemented him in people's minds as someone who could speak for the country and tap into and convey a feeling of strong emotion.
    I think there were indications beforehand that he might be good at that sort of thing, but the fact he was so good at it was a surprise. I think it would perhaps be a bigger surprise if Truss were to rise to the occasion as effectively, but if she does it could help her a lot.
    It was hammy as fuck, that theatrical sort catch in the throat gurgle kind of effect. It worked though. Hague made an early twat of himself by explicitly complaining that he was making capital out of it - true but not salable.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 32,012
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    Wasn't that so people could throw flowers at the hearse carrying Diana's coffin to the family estate?

    Similar thing will happen to the ECML so the Royal Train can inch its way down to London. Even as a republican I'm vaguely tempted to cycle to a spot with a decent view of the track.
    Why? To see a train go past in a few seconds?

    I find all this stuff mawkish and weird in the extreme TBH.
    Well the train will be going slowly. Could be quite a people-watching experience. Also a bit of a nod to my Grandad who worked on the railways at a time when they used to have railway staff guarding all the bridges over the line when the Royal Train went through.
    I think I might go and see the train; if it takes the reasonable route, I know a place that might be quiet with SOE connections, which might feel apt given HMQ's connection with the military and WW2. But not if my son wants to go, as it's a bit of a trek...

    (As ever, I expect thousands of people will congregate in a few easy-to-access places, whilst somewhere a few hundred metres from roads will be deserted.)
    Begins with T ..,, doesn't it?
    Yeah. There's a barn near it which features a tiny but poignant museum to the SOE - just a few exhibits. From memory it's the barn where the agents were given their equipment before taking off.
  • YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,198

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    Keir hasn't explained how he intends to tax Norway and Qatar, until he does it's bullshit.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,634
    AlistairM said:

    This is incredible, folks. Balakliya has been retaken. I think the next main goal is Kupyansk — the key railroad and automobile transportation center between Russia and northern and central Donbas. Sever this GLOC and Russians are in the world of shit.
    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1567909502770462720

    When does the weather change in Ukraine, such that you wouldn’t want to be an occupying force with crap logistics lines?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,703
    edited September 8
    @Carnyx

    Malcolm IV reigned from 1153 to 1165. So Malc would be Malcolm V.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,094
    MaxPB said:

    Another bit of energy stuff, it seems as though the proposal is to decouple gas prices from electricity, that immediately brings a lot of relief and will act as an effective "windfall tax" on domestic electricity producers who have been charging at the marginal cost of gas. I'd like to see a European approach to this, the UK has been invited by the EU into a temporary energy pricing alliance which to me seems like a good idea.

    There's going to be some interesting contract law with all this I guess? Lawyers having a field day? But we are at war so stuff must be done.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,317

    Ardent Republicans should have the decency to crawl under a stone at times such as these.

    Nope.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,703

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    I just want some actual detail, but I don't think we'll be getting that for a while now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,880
    MaxPB said:

    Another bit of energy stuff, it seems as though the proposal is to decouple gas prices from electricity, that immediately brings a lot of relief and will act as an effective "windfall tax" on domestic electricity producers who have been charging at the marginal cost of gas. I'd like to see a European approach to this, the UK has been invited by the EU into a temporary energy pricing alliance which to me seems like a good idea.

    All of the affected countries working together makes sense, but as with vaccines, is the EU the right organisation to be running the show?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,149
    NEW! Liz Truss First Prime Ministerial Approval Rating (7 September):

    Neither: 40%
    Disapprove: 23%
    Approve: 22%
    Don't know: 14%
    Net: -1%

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-49 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1567910715020742658/photo/1
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,198

    MaxPB said:

    Another bit of energy stuff, it seems as though the proposal is to decouple gas prices from electricity, that immediately brings a lot of relief and will act as an effective "windfall tax" on domestic electricity producers who have been charging at the marginal cost of gas. I'd like to see a European approach to this, the UK has been invited by the EU into a temporary energy pricing alliance which to me seems like a good idea.

    There's going to be some interesting contract law with all this I guess? Lawyers having a field day? But we are at war so stuff must be done.
    Luckily in this country parliament is sovereign and primary legislation does mean something. If the government uses an act of Parliament to amend contracts then there's really not much that the likes of SSE can do about it.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    Not so much with his much stingier short term proposal. He has captured the foot stampers/mummy mummy make the bad man pay zeitgeist though
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,317
    dixiedean said:

    Is this 6 o'clock announcement confirmed?

    The 6pm announcement will be confirmed at 6pm.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,149
    Labour leads by 12%, tied largest lead for Labour that we've recorded.

    Westminster Voting Intention (7 Sept.):

    Labour 42% (-1)
    Conservative 30% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 14% (+2)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 4 Sept.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-49 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1567907411125485569/photo/1
  • This might seem a little thing, but decimalisation will make this a particularly strange succession. Previous generations would have been used to having coinage with the representation of several monarchs in circulation, but most people have grown up with only QEII on the coins.

    Now, for the first time in decades, we will have a mix of coins circulating with QEII or KCIII on them. That will be strange.

    Not so! Before the downsizing of 5p and 10p pieces there used to be plenty of George VI 1s and 2s pieces in circulation. When I was a kid in the 1980s I remember being especially excited whenever I found one of the pre-48 ones with "Ind Imp" written on it.
    If they were pre-1947 there was the added bonus that they contained real silver and were worth a lot more than face value if you took them to a jeweller.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    Wasn't that so people could throw flowers at the hearse carrying Diana's coffin to the family estate?

    Similar thing will happen to the ECML so the Royal Train can inch its way down to London. Even as a republican I'm vaguely tempted to cycle to a spot with a decent view of the track.
    Why? To see a train go past in a few seconds?

    I find all this stuff mawkish and weird in the extreme TBH.
    It is.

    But wait until you see the people bending over and looking back at the funeral procession through their legs.

    (Robert Kirk reference.)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    biggles said:

    AlistairM said:

    This is incredible, folks. Balakliya has been retaken. I think the next main goal is Kupyansk — the key railroad and automobile transportation center between Russia and northern and central Donbas. Sever this GLOC and Russians are in the world of shit.
    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1567909502770462720

    When does the weather change in Ukraine, such that you wouldn’t want to be an occupying force with crap logistics lines?
    Cold in October freezing in November, precipitation fairly evenly distributed
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,198
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Another bit of energy stuff, it seems as though the proposal is to decouple gas prices from electricity, that immediately brings a lot of relief and will act as an effective "windfall tax" on domestic electricity producers who have been charging at the marginal cost of gas. I'd like to see a European approach to this, the UK has been invited by the EU into a temporary energy pricing alliance which to me seems like a good idea.

    All of the affected countries working together makes sense, but as with vaccines, is the EU the right organisation to be running the show?
    Just in a sense that we should all be in alignment on pricing structures, it's no use if the UK government says electricity prices are to be separated if Europe doesn't follow suit because UK producers suddenly have a huge incentive to export UK generated power to Europe via the interconnects.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,880
    biggles said:

    AlistairM said:

    This is incredible, folks. Balakliya has been retaken. I think the next main goal is Kupyansk — the key railroad and automobile transportation center between Russia and northern and central Donbas. Sever this GLOC and Russians are in the world of shit.
    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1567909502770462720

    When does the weather change in Ukraine, such that you wouldn’t want to be an occupying force with crap logistics lines?
    It’ll be back to mud by the end of this month, and freezing by the middle of November.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,126
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
    I agree if she resolves the CoL crisis - and let's see - she'll reap a dividend. But London Bridge? No, I don't think so. I think she'll do the necessary perfectly well, as is only to be expected, but I can't see her pulling off some master-thespian voice-catch, "she was the people's princess" type stunt. Or even trying to. And thank god for that.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,379
    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
    There is a clear parallel with Blair who faced Diana's death a few months after coming to power, and I think did very well out of his reaction to it - The People's Princess and all that - which cemented him in people's minds as someone who could speak for the country and tap into and convey a feeling of strong emotion.
    I think there were indications beforehand that he might be good at that sort of thing, but the fact he was so good at it was a surprise. I think it would perhaps be a bigger surprise if Truss were to rise to the occasion as effectively, but if she does it could help her a lot.
    It was hammy as fuck, that theatrical sort catch in the throat gurgle kind of effect. It worked though. Hague made an early twat of himself by explicitly complaining that he was making capital out of it - true but not salable.
    Oh yes it was appalling but also brilliant. I remember it vividly, I had stayed over at my sister's flat after a party and we woke up to the awful news the morning after. I remember watching Blair on the TV and my sister's flatmate said "fuck, he's good". To be fair to Blair, he caught the public mood early on and helped the Royal family to navigate it, which I think they might have failed to on their own.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 553
    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
    There is a clear parallel with Blair who faced Diana's death a few months after coming to power, and I think did very well out of his reaction to it - The People's Princess and all that - which cemented him in people's minds as someone who could speak for the country and tap into and convey a feeling of strong emotion.
    I think there were indications beforehand that he might be good at that sort of thing, but the fact he was so good at it was a surprise. I think it would perhaps be a bigger surprise if Truss were to rise to the occasion as effectively, but if she does it could help her a lot.
    It was hammy as fuck, that theatrical sort catch in the throat gurgle kind of effect. It worked though. Hague made an early twat of himself by explicitly complaining that he was making capital out of it - true but not salable.
    But the whole nation was going through some kind of para-social grief, possibly a guilt-response (I was only little, so the main impact to me was because it was all over the telly. I also remember a few grown-ups bursting into tears). He got the mood of the nation bang on, doesn't matter if he was shameless in going about it.
  • MaxPB said:

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    Keir hasn't explained how he intends to tax Norway and Qatar, until he does it's bullshit.
    Doesn’t matter, the public likes it.

    Think of it like the bull crap Boris Johnson used to come out with and public loved.
  • YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    It smells a bit 1993-7 Ken Clarke to me...

    Truss has done the rightish sort of thing, and can probably tapdance over the difference between her plan now and what she's said previously. But it leaves people feeling a bit rubbish, and there's not much gratitude to be had for preventing it being even worse. And there's an obvious thing that the public want to happen that isn't happening. It doesn't matter whether a windfall tax is good economics, it's lousy democratic politics.

    ... and we know how 1993-7 ended, don't we?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,954
    From Zelensky advisor Podolyak:

    Strange proposals by certain figures to mediate between 🇺🇦 and 🇷🇺 should be considered as an attempt to use 🇺🇦 topic in order to recover their name in their own countries. Any mediator must have trust, authority, relevance. For sure neither Berlusconi nor Merkel has it. For what?

    https://twitter.com/podolyak_m/status/1567836264434466816
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,634
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW! Liz Truss First Prime Ministerial Approval Rating (7 September):

    Neither: 40%
    Disapprove: 23%
    Approve: 22%
    Don't know: 14%
    Net: -1%

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-49 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1567910715020742658/photo/1

    You’d take that if you were her.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,198

    MaxPB said:

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    Keir hasn't explained how he intends to tax Norway and Qatar, until he does it's bullshit.
    Doesn’t matter, the public likes it.

    Think of it like the bull crap Boris Johnson used to come out with and public loved.
    We saw how that worked out for Boris, though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,317
    MaxPB said:

    MISTY said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

    Many people would, yes, to ensure the bigotry was dealt with and didn't happen again.

    Shooting the messenger is the alternative.
    Recollections may vary. Meghan isn't a trustworthy source, we know that.
    The problem to the ongoing rift is less which side is being entirely truthful, since recollections do indeed vary, but that the rift is in the interests of Harry and Meghan as it keeps focus on them, and the others have no benefit to healing it either since to meet Harry and Meghan halfway would involve them in an issue they don't want to open up.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 19,983
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW! Liz Truss First Prime Ministerial Approval Rating (7 September):

    Neither: 40%
    Disapprove: 23%
    Approve: 22%
    Don't know: 14%
    Net: -1%

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-49 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1567910715020742658/photo/1

    A lot of room for improvement there with the 40% undecided.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,977
    edited September 8
    Unpopular said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
    There is a clear parallel with Blair who faced Diana's death a few months after coming to power, and I think did very well out of his reaction to it - The People's Princess and all that - which cemented him in people's minds as someone who could speak for the country and tap into and convey a feeling of strong emotion.
    I think there were indications beforehand that he might be good at that sort of thing, but the fact he was so good at it was a surprise. I think it would perhaps be a bigger surprise if Truss were to rise to the occasion as effectively, but if she does it could help her a lot.
    It was hammy as fuck, that theatrical sort catch in the throat gurgle kind of effect. It worked though. Hague made an early twat of himself by explicitly complaining that he was making capital out of it - true but not salable.
    But the whole nation was going through some kind of para-social grief, possibly a guilt-response (I was only little, so the main impact to me was because it was all over the telly. I also remember a few grown-ups bursting into tears). He got the mood of the nation bang on, doesn't matter if he was shameless in going about it.
    Not the nation, unless you mean England. There was real shock in Scotland amongst many royalists, never mind the republicans, wo were horrified at the OTT stuff.

    No idea if there was a transition at, say, Watdford Gap or the Trent, mind.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,126

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
    There is a clear parallel with Blair who faced Diana's death a few months after coming to power, and I think did very well out of his reaction to it - The People's Princess and all that - which cemented him in people's minds as someone who could speak for the country and tap into and convey a feeling of strong emotion.
    I think there were indications beforehand that he might be good at that sort of thing, but the fact he was so good at it was a surprise. I think it would perhaps be a bigger surprise if Truss were to rise to the occasion as effectively, but if she does it could help her a lot.
    It was hammy as fuck, that theatrical sort catch in the throat gurgle kind of effect. It worked though. Hague made an early twat of himself by explicitly complaining that he was making capital out of it - true but not salable.
    Oh yes it was appalling but also brilliant. I remember it vividly, I had stayed over at my sister's flat after a party and we woke up to the awful news the morning after. I remember watching Blair on the TV and my sister's flatmate said "fuck, he's good". To be fair to Blair, he caught the public mood early on and helped the Royal family to navigate it, which I think they might have failed to on their own.
    It was his equivalent of Jackson's moonwalk at Motown 25. The moment he went stratospheric.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,880

    MaxPB said:

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    Keir hasn't explained how he intends to tax Norway and Qatar, until he does it's bullshit.
    Doesn’t matter, the public likes it.

    Think of it like the bull crap Boris Johnson used to come out with and public loved.
    Of course the public likes a theoretical ‘other’ paying the bill, when there’s a group of people advocating this completely unchallenged by the media as to what they actually mean.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,317
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    Keir hasn't explained how he intends to tax Norway and Qatar, until he does it's bullshit.
    Doesn’t matter, the public likes it.

    Think of it like the bull crap Boris Johnson used to come out with and public loved.
    We saw how that worked out for Boris, though.
    He got to be Prime Minister for three years. I'd call that a success.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 19,983

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    10 days after she dies
    Bugger. That's my wedding anniversary.
    You already know when the Queen dies??
    My impression from talking to a few people who have been involved in planning these sorts of things (from the military perspective) is she has already died. Once that has happened they have to gather the family but also inform the Government's of all the states of which she is still head and then the rest of the Commonwealth.

    They are expecting the formal announcement will be made probably at 6pm.

    I don't know for sure but looking at the reaction in Parliament today and the behaviour of the media, it seems likely to me.
    I hope this isn't true. She looked okay just two days when meeting Johnson and Truss.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 9,898
    edited September 8
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is this 6 o'clock announcement confirmed?

    The 6pm announcement will be confirmed at 6pm.
    LOL. Though Duke of Sussex is on his way still, I expect any announcement won't be made until after he's made it there.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    Truss sneaks back ahead as best PM 37 to 35 with Redfield
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,112
    biggles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW! Liz Truss First Prime Ministerial Approval Rating (7 September):

    Neither: 40%
    Disapprove: 23%
    Approve: 22%
    Don't know: 14%
    Net: -1%

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-49 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1567910715020742658/photo/1

    You’d take that if you were her.
    Yeah, that's basically the donkey-with-a-rosette voters on each side, with everyone else sensibly waiting until she does anything before they decide whether they approve of what she's doing.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,723
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour leads by 12%, tied largest lead for Labour that we've recorded.

    Westminster Voting Intention (7 Sept.):

    Labour 42% (-1)
    Conservative 30% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 14% (+2)
    Green 6% (–)
    SNP 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 4 Sept.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/magnified-email/issue-49 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1567907411125485569/photo/1

    LLG a whopping 62%, and the biggest Lib Dem score for a while.

    Let’s see how today - London Bridge + energy freeze - changes things.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,634
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    AlistairM said:

    This is incredible, folks. Balakliya has been retaken. I think the next main goal is Kupyansk — the key railroad and automobile transportation center between Russia and northern and central Donbas. Sever this GLOC and Russians are in the world of shit.
    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1567909502770462720

    When does the weather change in Ukraine, such that you wouldn’t want to be an occupying force with crap logistics lines?
    It’ll be back to mud by the end of this month, and freezing by the middle of November.
    Dare we hope that this is the beginning of the end?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,703
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    Keir hasn't explained how he intends to tax Norway and Qatar, until he does it's bullshit.
    Doesn’t matter, the public likes it.

    Think of it like the bull crap Boris Johnson used to come out with and public loved.
    We saw how that worked out for Boris, though.
    He got to be Prime Minister for three years. I'd call that a success.
    I would call it many things, but 'success' would not be one of them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,317
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    Keir hasn't explained how he intends to tax Norway and Qatar, until he does it's bullshit.
    Doesn’t matter, the public likes it.

    Think of it like the bull crap Boris Johnson used to come out with and public loved.
    We saw how that worked out for Boris, though.
    He got to be Prime Minister for three years. I'd call that a success.
    I would call it many things, but 'success' would not be one of them.
    It was for him.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    It would be nice if it drew a line under the lazy, NYT-style "Britain is a laughing stock" era of international coverage too.
    If someone doesn't want to be viewed as something, it's advisable that they not be it.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,819
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
    There is a clear parallel with Blair who faced Diana's death a few months after coming to power, and I think did very well out of his reaction to it - The People's Princess and all that - which cemented him in people's minds as someone who could speak for the country and tap into and convey a feeling of strong emotion.
    I think there were indications beforehand that he might be good at that sort of thing, but the fact he was so good at it was a surprise. I think it would perhaps be a bigger surprise if Truss were to rise to the occasion as effectively, but if she does it could help her a lot.
    It was hammy as fuck, that theatrical sort catch in the throat gurgle kind of effect. It worked though. Hague made an early twat of himself by explicitly complaining that he was making capital out of it - true but not salable.
    Oh yes it was appalling but also brilliant. I remember it vividly, I had stayed over at my sister's flat after a party and we woke up to the awful news the morning after. I remember watching Blair on the TV and my sister's flatmate said "fuck, he's good". To be fair to Blair, he caught the public mood early on and helped the Royal family to navigate it, which I think they might have
    failed to on their own.
    It was his equivalent of Jackson's moonwalk at Motown 25. The moment he went stratospheric.
    Does that make Prescott “bubbles” the semi-trained chimp?
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited September 8
    JJ's memory agrees with mine. SOE memorial Tempsford. It's in one of many disused WWII airfields> I walked by it on footpaths several times on the way to Peterborough, part of which is Roman. Very moving.

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/RAF+Tempsford+SOE+Barn/@52.1579097,-0.2573984,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4877cfbd364307f1:0xe05c00b6ab9f65f7!8m2!3d52.158529!4d-0.2583234?hl=en
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Unpopular said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
    There is a clear parallel with Blair who faced Diana's death a few months after coming to power, and I think did very well out of his reaction to it - The People's Princess and all that - which cemented him in people's minds as someone who could speak for the country and tap into and convey a feeling of strong emotion.
    I think there were indications beforehand that he might be good at that sort of thing, but the fact he was so good at it was a surprise. I think it would perhaps be a bigger surprise if Truss were to rise to the occasion as effectively, but if she does it could help her a lot.
    It was hammy as fuck, that theatrical sort catch in the throat gurgle kind of effect. It worked though. Hague made an early twat of himself by explicitly complaining that he was making capital out of it - true but not salable.
    But the whole nation was going through some kind of para-social grief, possibly a guilt-response (I was only little, so the main impact to me was because it was all over the telly. I also remember a few grown-ups bursting into tears). He got the mood of the nation bang on, doesn't matter if he was shameless in going about it.
    Well, I was not only little, and I found it perplexing and fucking hilarious in about equal parts. Now you may say quite rightly that I am a high functioning sociopath, but perplexity was pretty standard.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,703
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    Keir hasn't explained how he intends to tax Norway and Qatar, until he does it's bullshit.
    Doesn’t matter, the public likes it.

    Think of it like the bull crap Boris Johnson used to come out with and public loved.
    We saw how that worked out for Boris, though.
    He got to be Prime Minister for three years. I'd call that a success.
    I would call it many things, but 'success' would not be one of them.
    It was for him.
    I don't think it even was for him.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,519
    biggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    AlistairM said:

    This is incredible, folks. Balakliya has been retaken. I think the next main goal is Kupyansk — the key railroad and automobile transportation center between Russia and northern and central Donbas. Sever this GLOC and Russians are in the world of shit.
    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1567909502770462720

    When does the weather change in Ukraine, such that you wouldn’t want to be an occupying force with crap logistics lines?
    It’ll be back to mud by the end of this month, and freezing by the middle of November.
    Dare we hope that this is the beginning of the end?

    I suspect at the very least it is the end of the beginning.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,519
    Odd to think that Truss's first meeting with most world leaders as PM will be at HMQ's funeral.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,112
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    YouGov 80% in favour of the energy proposals but 54% say too little help and 68% want more windfall

    Sir Keir speaks for the nation.
    Keir hasn't explained how he intends to tax Norway and Qatar, until he does it's bullshit.
    Doesn’t matter, the public likes it.

    Think of it like the bull crap Boris Johnson used to come out with and public loved.
    We saw how that worked out for Boris, though.
    He got to be Prime Minister for three years. I'd call that a success.
    I would call it many things, but 'success' would not be one of them.
    It was for him.
    I don't think it even was for him.
    He reached the top of his chosen profession.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,345
    The news must get a little less "newsy" soon.
    Mustn't it?
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 553
    Carnyx said:

    Unpopular said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    I think it's different, a lot of people have pre-conceptions of Liz Truss based on a partial media profile and being associated with Boris. This is a huge global stage to reset it all and stand out for who she is, not what people think she is. That doesn't happen often for politicians and Liz seems canny enough to make it work for her.

    The energy stuff today is a good example of what I mean, expectations were very low and actually we got a pretty wide ranging package and a commitment to be energy independent at some stage. While that's been overshadowed, the lasting policy effect will be a net positive for her vs what people expected (£400-600 and no help with monthly bills vs £150-200).
    There is a clear parallel with Blair who faced Diana's death a few months after coming to power, and I think did very well out of his reaction to it - The People's Princess and all that - which cemented him in people's minds as someone who could speak for the country and tap into and convey a feeling of strong emotion.
    I think there were indications beforehand that he might be good at that sort of thing, but the fact he was so good at it was a surprise. I think it would perhaps be a bigger surprise if Truss were to rise to the occasion as effectively, but if she does it could help her a lot.
    It was hammy as fuck, that theatrical sort catch in the throat gurgle kind of effect. It worked though. Hague made an early twat of himself by explicitly complaining that he was making capital out of it - true but not salable.
    But the whole nation was going through some kind of para-social grief, possibly a guilt-response (I was only little, so the main impact to me was because it was all over the telly. I also remember a few grown-ups bursting into tears). He got the mood of the nation bang on, doesn't matter if he was shameless in going about it.
    Not the nation, unless you mean England. There was real shock in Scotland amongst many royalists, never mind the republicans, wo were horrified at the OTT stuff.

    No idea if there was a transition at, say, Watdford Gap or the Trent, mind.
    Fair point. Even my girlfriend's Unionist parents don't have much time for Monarchy as an institution and she's often remarked that the monarchy feels pretty distant to her in a way that feels distinctly Scottish. Beyond sympathy for the personal tragedy, probably won't have felt much grief for Diana themselves.
  • dixiedean said:

    The news must get a little less "newsy" soon.
    Mustn't it?

    The Crown scriptwriters crammed as much material into the final season as they could.
This discussion has been closed.