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God save the Queen – politicalbetting.com

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  • Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Controversially, I think Olivia Colman was a good Queen. I hate her in everything else, but I thought that last series v good.

    She was good in the Aberfan episode but otherwise not really. Gillian Anderson stole the show IMO, absolutely brilliant as Mrs T.
    Colman was miscast as HMQ. Ruined the last series.
    Agreed. The actor who played Charles was brilliant though; more than compensated.
    The actress who played Diana was pretty good too I thought.
    Charles and Diana were excellent.
    Gillian Anderson was a caricature of Thatcher.
    Thatcher was a caricature of Thatcher. I thought that Anderson did a good job of humanising her TBH.
  • boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Listening to radio 4 because i want to get the news prefaced by "this is London." Rather good programme about the maths of pi.

    Is that the one which mentions the fact that some people in the United States about 100 years ago wanted to redefine pi as 3.2?
    Yup. Indiana. They actually legislated it.
    They are mad about maths and geometry there, even made a film about it “Indiana Jones and the Radius of the Lost Arc”
    That is excellent.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 19,093
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Oh f*** off Witchell!

    Has to be Auntie for this but he is a tough watch. My tip - when he's on make a special effort to relax your buttocks.
    I remember that moment when Charles was caught describing him as "that awful man" when on a skiing trip, in the 90s it was I think.
    I remember that quite vividly - watching it with a complex mix of emotions.

    Distaste for the obvious snobbery from Charles; interest that he discussed Witchell with his children; genuine embarrassment on Witchell's behalf... while agreeing completely with the judgment. All the while finding the entire thing hilarious.
    And yet Witchell remains a hand wringing, simpering, wretched, sychophant. Whereas he should have told Charles to do one.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486

    More proof that the monarchy is a deeply cruel concept – human beings forced to live like goldfish in a bowl, never free from the peering eyes of an obsessed public.

    In an alternative universe, a frail old lady who has lived a good life is spending her last days with family in dignity – and privacy.

    It must be weird for the Queen to know "London Bridge" is a thing.
    Yep, it's inhumane and sinister if you think about it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Oh f*** off Witchell!

    Has to be Auntie for this but he is a tough watch. My tip - when he's on make a special effort to relax your buttocks.
    I remember that moment when Charles was caught describing him as "that awful man" when on a skiing trip, in the 90s it was I think.
    I remember that quite vividly - watching it with a complex mix of emotions.

    Distaste for the obvious snobbery from Charles; interest that he discussed Witchell with his children; genuine embarrassment on Witchell's behalf... while agreeing completely with the judgment. All the while finding the entire thing hilarious.
    Calling that snobbish, is like people who call you sexist if you call T Coffey f*t, even if you have called phatboi fat 1,000 times as often. I'd be pretty fucked off with someone whose job was to stalk me round the world doing pieces to camera about me.
    The BBC royal correspondent is a role more obsequious than most, Witchell's embodiment of it particularly so. Describing it as 'stalking' is pitiful stuff.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Listening to radio 4 because i want to get the news prefaced by "this is London." Rather good programme about the maths of pi.

    Is that the one which mentions the fact that some people in the United States about 100 years ago wanted to redefine pi as 3.2?
    Yup. Indiana. They actually legislated it.
    I like politicians with ambition.
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    The BBC's live news page is desperate. They have just had a piece on "News starting to trickle through in Windsor", about how most people have been staying in because of the rain but some ventured out and overheard castle staff saying the Queen was not well.

    A live news feed is a bit pointless, given that nothing will be known until we hear the one piece of news we are waiting for, and then nothing else will be particularly relevant.

    They are watching and filming the arrival of various members of the Royal famiiy
    Yes, and quoting some public figures saying they are concerned, and others saying everyone will be very sad when the Queen dies.
    And now a piece telling us it is raining at Balmoral.
    The thing is, they can't go to normal programming while knowing they could have to break into it at any moment. They can't start the tributes until it's confirmed. So they are reduced to filling. It's a bit rubbish, but what else could they do.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,317
    Are we all being kept waiting because of that damned fool Harry?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    Bit more than that - Westminster, Palace, etc. There will be processions. The other issue is the numbers of visitors and travel arrangements.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge
  • kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Listening to radio 4 because i want to get the news prefaced by "this is London." Rather good programme about the maths of pi.

    Is that the one which mentions the fact that some people in the United States about 100 years ago wanted to redefine pi as 3.2?
    Yup. Indiana. They actually legislated it.
    I like politicians with ambition.
    A young Liz Truss wanted the monarchy abolished, 72 hours as PM and . . .

    I know its dark, but that's never going to go away.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    edited September 2022

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Oh f*** off Witchell!

    Has to be Auntie for this but he is a tough watch. My tip - when he's on make a special effort to relax your buttocks.
    I remember that moment when Charles was caught describing him as "that awful man" when on a skiing trip, in the 90s it was I think.
    I remember that quite vividly - watching it with a complex mix of emotions.

    Distaste for the obvious snobbery from Charles; interest that he discussed Witchell with his children; genuine embarrassment on Witchell's behalf... while agreeing completely with the judgment. All the while finding the entire thing hilarious.
    And yet Witchell remains a hand wringing, simpering, wretched, sychophant. Whereas he should have told Charles to do one.
    Well, yes, but I expect he couldn't afford to give up the job.
    Despite its having become an ongoing humiliation for him.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503

    More proof that the monarchy is a deeply cruel concept – human beings forced to live like goldfish in a bowl, never free from the peering eyes of an obsessed public.

    In an alternative universe, a frail old lady who has lived a good life is spending her last days with family in dignity – and privacy.

    It must be weird for the Queen to know "London Bridge" is a thing.
    She’d have been intimately involved in the process, over a number of decades.

    Anyway, planning your own funeral is all the rage these days, look at all those daytime TV adverts!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    biggles said:

    Driver said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is it too dark to wonder if Netflix will extend The Crown to Season 7 or 8 to reach the 'end' of the story?

    Certainly a lot of material for the final couple of seasons if they do.

    It hasn't been good post Claire Foy anyway.
    I stopped watching it when it got to the part that I remembered what happened, because at that point the inaccuracies would have annoyed me so much it wouldn't have been worth it...
    Agreed. I got up to the end of the 60s (series three?) then had to stop. I was born in the early 80s but even so it started to feature people I knew too well to accept in caricature.

    Even as a monarchist I found it too dull from the start sadly.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486
    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    Bit more than that - Westminster, Palace, etc. There will be processions. The other issue is the numbers of visitors and travel arrangements.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge
    Still, that's an absolutely tiny sliver of London. Though many tourists seem to think London begins at the Thames and ends at St James' Park.
  • Any news from Leon ? I hope he's not going to end up like St. Paul or Moses, wandering in the heat.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    edited September 2022
    Meghan not going to Balmoral
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,316
    edited September 2022

    There are reports that the Ukrainians have reached the left bank of the Oskil RIver at Sen'kove. That is some 30 km east of Shevchenkove.

    The Ukrainian troops are driving even faster than Dura Ace....

    Some footage of that.
    https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1567883017015726082

    https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1567901702958768131
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,962

    More proof that the monarchy is a deeply cruel concept – human beings forced to live like goldfish in a bowl, never free from the peering eyes of an obsessed public.

    In an alternative universe, a frail old lady who has lived a good life is spending her last days with family in dignity – and privacy.

    It must be weird for the Queen to know "London Bridge" is a thing.
    Yep, it's inhumane and sinister if you think about it.
    Any different from Co-op Funeral Plan in the bottom divan drawer?

    Knowing her sense of role, she will have, over the years, been adamant about and taken great interest in its planning.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Listening to radio 4 because i want to get the news prefaced by "this is London." Rather good programme about the maths of pi.

    Is that the one which mentions the fact that some people in the United States about 100 years ago wanted to redefine pi as 3.2?
    Yup. Indiana. They actually legislated it.
    I like politicians with ambition.
    A young Liz Truss wanted the monarchy abolished, 72 hours as PM and . . .

    I know its dark, but that's never going to go away.
    It is merely silly.

    What isn't, is the huge good luck that this was not on phatboi's watch.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    Bit more than that - Westminster, Palace, etc. There will be processions. The other issue is the numbers of visitors and travel arrangements.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge
    Still, that's an absolutely tiny sliver of London. Though many tourists seem to think London begins at the Thames and ends at St James' Park.
    Across key routes, and with every royalist in the three kingdoms piling in? I'd WFH myself.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,641
    edited September 2022

    Meghan not going to Balmoral

    Not sure she can win either way here. On balance it’s the right thing .
  • MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    10 days after she dies
    Bugger. That's my wedding anniversary.
  • Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    They closed the road for the funeral convoy to pass, from London up the M1 to Althorp Estate in Northamptonshire.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Sandpit said:

    @Leon is going to love this one:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/people/circle-truss-story-behind-lizs-favourite-necklace/

    ”To my knowledge, no brand has stepped forward to claim it – but her office confirms it was a gift from her husband

    “So the necklace is a symbol of Truss’s political ascent. And there are also subconscious reasons that Truss might be so fond of this necklace. Circles symbolise eternity, wholeness and perfection. A never-ending hoop is used to signify unbroken love and commitment, whether on a wedding band or as part of a necklace. On a subconscious level, humans are drawn to the geometry of a perfect circle; it’s a universal symbol that spans cultures and centuries, representing everything from the perpetuity of time to the potential of the digit zero. “[The circle] has a magical value as a protective agent, and indicates the end of the process of individuation, of striving towards a psychic wholeness and self-realisation,” wrote Nadia Julien in The Mammoth Dictionary of Symbols.

    “Perhaps Truss is striving towards a psychic wholeness. Or perhaps the Circle of Truss has become like a second skin, a no-brainer accessory that she reaches for every morning. Like most jewellery, there’s probably an element of sentimentality – in fact one would hope so, given the giver. But it’s clear that she’s found the one that works, and she’s sticking with it. A works-with-everything accessory that serves as a wearable reminder of your career highs so far – isn’t that what every woman wants in her jewellery box?”

    Thanks for this. I hadn't seen that piece in the Torygraph. That commentary is lazy and of little interest (Jewellery and Watches editor mentions John Lewis, yawn, and does a quick websearch, double yawn, and probably doesn't know what "subconscious" means - truly worthless scribbling), but quite a few people are already aware that something's going on with that item. It's at least an amulet; could be a talisman. Not sure its shape is a perfect circle either.

    I expected the launch of a Merkelian handsignal...

    ... but all we got was the Apprentice Pillar lectern outside No10.
  • MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    The funeral and coronation will be attended by dignitaries from across the world and the security will be vast

    Expect large parts of London closed on these two days as we witness the biggest events in decades
  • Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    Bit more than that - Westminster, Palace, etc. There will be processions. The other issue is the numbers of visitors and travel arrangements.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge
    My cycle route to work takes me over Westminster Bridge, down Horseguards and up the Mall. My daughter has just started sixth form minutes from the Abbey. I have a feeling we are both about to see our commutes seriously messed with.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    10 days after she dies
    Bugger. That's my wedding anniversary.
    You already know when the Queen dies??
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    I think he’s referring to the fact it was closed WHILST the hearse was in transit because of the numbers of people likely to come and the public health risk. Not the same thing.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,641
    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Listening to radio 4 because i want to get the news prefaced by "this is London." Rather good programme about the maths of pi.

    Is that the one which mentions the fact that some people in the United States about 100 years ago wanted to redefine pi as 3.2?
    Yup. Indiana. They actually legislated it.
    I like politicians with ambition.
    A young Liz Truss wanted the monarchy abolished, 72 hours as PM and . . .

    I know its dark, but that's never going to go away.
    It is merely silly.

    What isn't, is the huge good luck that this was not on phatboi's watch.
    It’s this sort of thing that could have saved Johnson . We heard it all about not changing leader because of Ukraine. And the Bozo cult would have milked this and said now is not the time .
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,909

    Meghan not going to Balmoral

    Apparently she heard Harry on the phone discussing dress protocol and heard “wears black” and thought it was Camilla having a dig so now busy contacting Oprah.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836
    biggles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    I think he’s referring to the fact it was closed WHILST the hearse was in transit because of the numbers of people likely to come and the public health risk. Not the same thing.

    The public health risk was later, from the dunes of rotting flowers.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,651

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    Bit more than that - Westminster, Palace, etc. There will be processions. The other issue is the numbers of visitors and travel arrangements.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge
    Still, that's an absolutely tiny sliver of London. Though many tourists seem to think London begins at the Thames and ends at St James' Park.
    Across key routes, and with every royalist in the three kingdoms piling in? I'd WFH myself.
    Sure, I will. But my point is simply that the idea that "London will be locked down" is hyperbolic in the extreme. It won't be.

    A tiny part of it will and lots of monarchists will come to town. Rather different.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567

    Meghan not going to Balmoral

    Seems odd she wouldn't accompany her husband.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,682
    edited September 2022

    Sandpit said:

    Anyway, planning your own funeral is all the rage these days, look at all those daytime TV adverts!

    Perhaps it will turn out that all the plans are redundant because she had a policy with SunLife.

    Let's hope she doesn't have a contract with Vodafone.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/28/sadmin-mother-death-vodafone
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 7,459
    edited September 2022

    It's made me think of all the members of my family who were there at the start of her reign and watched the Coronation on the first tellies they had probably ever seen up close. Some I never met, but many I knew and loved and have now gone - my Dad, my grandparents, aunts and uncles.

    They were there at the start, just ordinary people who only a few years before had lived through the most traumatic events it is possible to imagine, huddled around a tiny black and white TV, watching it all happen as the rain fell outside.

    Now, 69 years later, it's my generation of the family and our kids watching on our big colour tellies, on our computers and on our phones, as it may well all be coming to an end. And the rain is falling outside.

    It's that link to the past through to today that the Queen represents for most of us - whether we are monarchists or republicans. It's not only about the country, it's about all our lives and the generations that come and then go. That's why this is such a big deal, why it is so sad.

    She has always been there. As everything else has changed, she has been there. Soon she won't be. It's quite hard to get your head round - at least for me.

    I am not expressing it well, I am not the writer some on here are, but I am sure you know what I mean.

    I remember some of my earliest possessions as Ladybird books made in the 1950s, with vivid antique-style coronation drawings of the Queen as the latest in the line of British monarchs, also associated in my mind with some words optimism about the Second Elizabethan Age, technology and modernity. The Queen *is* postwar Britain.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    Wasn't that so people could throw flowers at the hearse carrying Diana's coffin to the family estate?

    Similar thing will happen to the ECML so the Royal Train can inch its way down to London. Even as a republican I'm vaguely tempted to cycle to a spot with a decent view of the track.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    It will work in her favour, provided she handles the speechifying and so on adequately, because people gravitate to the govt at times like this. Blair got a uge diana boost. Further down the road, it will fuel either a new Elizabethan era narrative, or be when everything went to shit, depending.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,073

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    The BBC's live news page is desperate. They have just had a piece on "News starting to trickle through in Windsor", about how most people have been staying in because of the rain but some ventured out and overheard castle staff saying the Queen was not well.

    A live news feed is a bit pointless, given that nothing will be known until we hear the one piece of news we are waiting for, and then nothing else will be particularly relevant.

    They are watching and filming the arrival of various members of the Royal famiiy
    Yes, and quoting some public figures saying they are concerned, and others saying everyone will be very sad when the Queen dies.
    And now a piece telling us it is raining at Balmoral.
    The thing is, they can't go to normal programming while knowing they could have to break into it at any moment. They can't start the tributes until it's confirmed. So they are reduced to filling. It's a bit rubbish, but what else could they do.
    I'm talking about a web page. They could just not have a live news page when there is no news to report.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 3,127
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Listening to radio 4 because i want to get the news prefaced by "this is London." Rather good programme about the maths of pi.

    Is that the one which mentions the fact that some people in the United States about 100 years ago wanted to redefine pi as 3.2?
    Yup. Indiana. They actually legislated it.
    I like politicians with ambition.
    It's not entirely true - the value of pi = 3.2 (and root 2 = 10/7) is implicit rather than explicit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    The funeral and coronation will be attended by dignitaries from across the world and the security will be vast

    Expect large parts of London closed on these two days as we witness the biggest events in decades
    Again, define "large parts". London is 607 square miles. What percentage of that do you think will be "closed"?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    edited September 2022

    It's made me think of all the members of my family who were there at the start of her reign and watched the Coronation on the first tellies they had probably ever seen up close. Some I never met, but many I knew and loved and have now gone - my Dad, my grandparents, aunts and uncles.

    They were there at the start, just ordinary people who only a few years before had lived through the most traumatic events it is possible to imagine, huddled around a tiny black and white TV, watching it all happen as the rain fell outside.

    Now, 69 years later, it's my generation of the family and our kids watching on our big colour tellies, on our computers and on our phones, as it may well all be coming to an end. And the rain is falling outside.

    It's that link to the past through to today that the Queen represents for most of us - whether we are monarchists or republicans. It's not only about the country, it's about all our lives and the generations that come and then go. That's why this is such a big deal, why it is so sad.

    She has always been there. As everything else has changed, she has been there. Soon she won't be. It's quite hard to get your head round - at least for me.

    I am not expressing it well, I am not the writer some on here are, but I am sure you know what I mean.

    We’re living through the end of the future history book: “the Second Elizabethan Age and the end of Empire”. Rarely is it so obvious that history is unfolding in front of you.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    Wasn't that so people could throw flowers at the hearse carrying Diana's coffin to the family estate?

    Similar thing will happen to the ECML so the Royal Train can inch its way down to London. Even as a republican I'm vaguely tempted to cycle to a spot with a decent view of the track.
    That railway line has overhead electric wires!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,264
    Tom Scholar, perm sec at the Treasury, is leaving. His departure was agreed on Tuesday when Kwasi Kwarteng was appointed chancellor. He's just told staff
    https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1567902362903142402
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,344
    edited September 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    It would be nice if it drew a line under the lazy, NYT-style "Britain is a laughing stock" era of international coverage too.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    biggles said:

    It's made me think of all the members of my family who were there at the start of her reign and watched the Coronation on the first tellies they had probably ever seen up close. Some I never met, but many I knew and loved and have now gone - my Dad, my grandparents, aunts and uncles.

    They were there at the start, just ordinary people who only a few years before had lived through the most traumatic events it is possible to imagine, huddled around a tiny black and white TV, watching it all happen as the rain fell outside.

    Now, 69 years later, it's my generation of the family and our kids watching on our big colour tellies, on our computers and on our phones, as it may well all be coming to an end. And the rain is falling outside.

    It's that link to the past through to today that the Queen represents for most of us - whether we are monarchists or republicans. It's not only about the country, it's about all our lives and the generations that come and then go. That's why this is such a big deal, why it is so sad.

    She has always been there. As everything else has changed, she has been there. Soon she won't be. It's quite hard to get your head round - at least for me.

    I am not expressing it well, I am not the writer some on here are, but I am sure you know what I mean.

    We’re living through the end of the future history book: “the Second Elizabethan Age and the end of Empire”. Rarely is it so obvious that history is unfolding in front of you.

    Yet few see it.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Scott_xP said:

    Tom Scholar, perm sec at the Treasury, is leaving. His departure was agreed on Tuesday when Kwasi Kwarteng was appointed chancellor. He's just told staff
    https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1567902362903142402

    I read something in which Scholar was touted as the chief keeper of the Brownite flame.....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,264
    Tom Scholar makes clear Kwarteng asked him to go, writing: "The Chancellor decided it was time for new leadership at the Treasury."

    HMT announces search for successor, who will be appointed shortly https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1567902362903142402 https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1567903111993331720/photo/1
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,571
    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    kle4 said:

    Meghan not going to Balmoral

    Seems odd she wouldn't accompany her husband.
    To be fair, they do have kids. I’d understand if she’s with them.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    Wasn't that so people could throw flowers at the hearse carrying Diana's coffin to the family estate?

    Similar thing will happen to the ECML so the Royal Train can inch its way down to London. Even as a republican I'm vaguely tempted to cycle to a spot with a decent view of the track.
    Why? To see a train go past in a few seconds?

    I find all this stuff mawkish and weird in the extreme TBH.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503
    Scott_xP said:

    Tom Scholar, perm sec at the Treasury, is leaving. His departure was agreed on Tuesday when Kwasi Kwarteng was appointed chancellor. He's just told staff
    https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1567902362903142402

    Good good, another Treasury mandarin bites the dust.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,356

    It's made me think of all the members of my family who were there at the start of her reign and watched the Coronation on the first tellies they had probably ever seen up close. Some I never met, but many I knew and loved and have now gone - my Dad, my grandparents, aunts and uncles.

    They were there at the start, just ordinary people who only a few years before had lived through the most traumatic events it is possible to imagine, huddled around a tiny black and white TV, watching it all happen as the rain fell outside.

    Now, 69 years later, it's my generation of the family and our kids watching on our big colour tellies, on our computers and on our phones, as it may well all be coming to an end. And the rain is falling outside.

    It's that link to the past through to today that the Queen represents for most of us - whether we are monarchists or republicans. It's not only about the country, it's about all our lives and the generations that come and then go. That's why this is such a big deal, why it is so sad.

    She has always been there. As everything else has changed, she has been there. Soon she won't be. It's quite hard to get your head round - at least for me.

    I am not expressing it well, I am not the writer some on here are, but I am sure you know what I mean.

    You expressed it well. Thank you.
    nico679 said:

    Meghan not going to Balmoral

    Not sure she can win either way here. On balance it’s the right thing .
    This is not about her. Or whether she 's "winning " something or not.

    The Duchess of Cambridge isn't there either. Nor HMQ's other grandchildren. They are frankly more important - having been part of the family and known and loved her for a long time.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,651
    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Sometimes a family crisis is what it takes to mend those fences. Unfortunately as soon as Harry goes back to LA the poison will begin dripping in his ear again and it all gets undone.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,975

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    It would be nice if it drew a line under the lazy, NYT-style "Britain is a laughing stock" era of international coverage too.
    Johnson's exit helps with that too. Helps enormously.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,594
    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Might be difficult with the Netflix TV crew in tow.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,503
    edited September 2022
    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Kate won’t want to say a word to her, lest it end up in American tabloids by the morning. Sadly, Meghan will need to be told that she can’t bring her own TV crew to a funeral.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,345
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Listening to radio 4 because i want to get the news prefaced by "this is London." Rather good programme about the maths of pi.

    Is that the one which mentions the fact that some people in the United States about 100 years ago wanted to redefine pi as 3.2?
    Yup. Indiana. They actually legislated it.
    I like politicians with ambition.
    The professor who pointed out it was nonsense was asked if he wanted to meet the legislator who proposed it. He declined saying he had met enough crazy people in his life.

    Note it passed unanimously.
  • biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    Meghan not going to Balmoral

    Seems odd she wouldn't accompany her husband.
    To be fair, they do have kids. I’d understand if she’s with them.
    Yeah. I'm not her biggest fan, but seems reasonable enough to me.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    The funeral and coronation will be attended by dignitaries from across the world and the security will be vast

    Expect large parts of London closed on these two days as we witness the biggest events in decades
    Again, define "large parts". London is 607 square miles. What percentage of that do you think will be "closed"?
    The securuty operation alone will close down large parts of central London
  • kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    It would be nice if it drew a line under the lazy, NYT-style "Britain is a laughing stock" era of international coverage too.
    Johnson's exit helps with that too. Helps enormously.
    Yes, it was his bad luck that Trump came along and hating him became a proxy.
  • MISTY said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

    Many people would, yes, to ensure the bigotry was dealt with and didn't happen again.

    Shooting the messenger is the alternative.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    Driver said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Listening to radio 4 because i want to get the news prefaced by "this is London." Rather good programme about the maths of pi.

    Is that the one which mentions the fact that some people in the United States about 100 years ago wanted to redefine pi as 3.2?
    Yup. Indiana. They actually legislated it.
    I like politicians with ambition.
    It's not entirely true - the value of pi = 3.2 (and root 2 = 10/7) is implicit rather than explicit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
    Why such a thing even was submitted is baffling.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486
    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Sisters-in-law very often dislike each other, there's no good reason why these two should be friends particularly. They are human beings and not all human beings get on with each other – it's perfectly normal.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,594

    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    Meghan not going to Balmoral

    Seems odd she wouldn't accompany her husband.
    To be fair, they do have kids. I’d understand if she’s with them.
    Yeah. I'm not her biggest fan, but seems reasonable enough to me.
    Any evidence they have brought the kids to Europe with them? I get the impression they were left in California whilst they were touring.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567
    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    But what would the popular magazines write about?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,975
    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Sometimes a family crisis is what it takes to mend those fences. Unfortunately as soon as Harry goes back to LA the poison will begin dripping in his ear again and it all gets undone.
    His book may not go down too well now. Best he delays it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,142
    biggles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    pm215 said:

    pm215 said:

    Looks like 10 days of parliament closure after Bridge, the cabinet meet with the new monarch during the period

    Now this seems pretty bad to me -- they've just had a big summer holiday pause while they sorted out a new PM. There must be a lot of stuff backlogged, and delaying it further can't be ideal.
    One would imagine there is no “ideal” time for the death of the monarch.
    Indeed not, but there is also no necessity to shut everything down for ten days when it happens.
    Probably not.
    A week would seem more reasonable.
    Nothing should be forcibly closed by state fiat – what a ludicrous idea. Those individuals and businesses that want to pay their respects by shutting up shop are free to do so.
    When her daughter-in-law died - this being in the infancy of the internet - the natural home of nutters was the radio phone in. I remember some nutter phoning radio 5 to say that to mark the death of Princess Diana, the M1 should be closed for the weekend.
    What a nutter, we all thought.
    They didn't close it for the weekend, but they did close it for Saturday.
    They probably won't attempt quite that sort of overreach again, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Did they really?

    Golly.
    They closed the M1 when Lady Di died? That is completely mawkish and un-British if true, and why the M1 specifically, not the A1 or M11 or M6?
    I think he’s referring to the fact it was closed WHILST the hearse was in transit because of the numbers of people likely to come and the public health risk. Not the same thing.

    I may have misremembered. ISTR it was closed for the day of the funeral.
    I do remember driving from Nottingham to Manchester in record time that day, so little traffic was there on the roads. But that didn't include the M1. I went through Leek.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    The funeral and coronation will be attended by dignitaries from across the world and the security will be vast

    Expect large parts of London closed on these two days as we witness the biggest events in decades
    Again, define "large parts". London is 607 square miles. What percentage of that do you think will be "closed"?
    The securuty operation alone will close down large parts of central London
    Large parts of "central London" now... again, can you define "large parts"?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 10,231
    edited September 2022
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    Its over-shone her big day in dealing with the energy crisis though.

    A day to bury good news.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,567

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    It would be nice if it drew a line under the lazy, NYT-style "Britain is a laughing stock" era of international coverage too.
    It will ramp it up, as end of era stuff is overplayed as if we hadn't noticed things had changed in the last 70 years.

    Even that excellent Guardian piece on London Bridge shoehorned that sort of thing in.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    It will work in her favour, provided she handles the speechifying and so on adequately, because people gravitate to the govt at times like this. Blair got a uge diana boost. Further down the road, it will fuel either a new Elizabethan era narrative, or be when everything went to shit, depending.
    The problem is, Blair could make a good speech. Truss has a weird delivery. I was listening to the rest is politics and Campbell got it bang on in my opinion. Essentially she has a weird intonation and it really impacts on the tone of her speech.
  • It's made me think of all the members of my family who were there at the start of her reign and watched the Coronation on the first tellies they had probably ever seen up close. Some I never met, but many I knew and loved and have now gone - my Dad, my grandparents, aunts and uncles.

    They were there at the start, just ordinary people who only a few years before had lived through the most traumatic events it is possible to imagine, huddled around a tiny black and white TV, watching it all happen as the rain fell outside.

    Now, 69 years later, it's my generation of the family and our kids watching on our big colour tellies, on our computers and on our phones, as it may well all be coming to an end. And the rain is falling outside.

    It's that link to the past through to today that the Queen represents for most of us - whether we are monarchists or republicans. It's not only about the country, it's about all our lives and the generations that come and then go. That's why this is such a big deal, why it is so sad.

    She has always been there. As everything else has changed, she has been there. Soon she won't be. It's quite hard to get your head round - at least for me.

    I am not expressing it well, I am not the writer some on here are, but I am sure you know what I mean.

    I remember some of my earliest possessions as Ladybird books made in the 1950s, with vivid antique-style coronation drawings of the Queen as the latest in the line of British monarchs, also associated in my mind with some words optimism about the Second Elizabethan Age, technology and modernity. The Queen *is* postwar Britain.
    My wife and I well remember the death of the King and the Queen's coronation in 1953

    She has been quite the most extraordinary servant to her country and will be greatly missed
    Absolutely.
    By the way, please don’t go leave off the full stops like that berk Leon.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,190

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Is there any political impact do we think?
    Will Liz Truss’s Premiership be indelibly marked?

    We have often talked about the psychological rupture about to be experienced, the sense of “falling into the future”. Will that colour how people think of Liz Truss?

    Quite the opposite, it could be the making of her politically if she plays it well. It's exactly the kind of event that marks a reset in people's opinions and Liz Truss could come out of the other side with a lot of credit she may not have otherwise got. Crises, inevitably, play well for politicians, even Boris got a COVID bounce despite all of the disorganisation and confusion surrounding lockdowns, PPE and the rest of it. The reason it didn't stick was Boris. If Liz can avoid partying on the Queen's grave I think she'll do well and can show she's a serious leader, not a comedian.
    I'm sure she'll handle it fine but I'm not sure about a lasting political impact. Neutral to small positive (for her) is what I'd expect.
    Its over-shone her big day in dealing with the energy crisis though.

    A day to bury good news.
    And that might be one of her few good days.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486

    This might seem a little thing, but decimalisation will make this a particularly strange succession. Previous generations would have been used to having coinage with the representation of several monarchs in circulation, but most people have grown up with only QEII on the coins.

    Now, for the first time in decades, we will have a mix of coins circulating with QEII or KCIII on them. That will be strange.

    I don't think I have set eyes on a coin for about three years. Does anyone still use them for anything? What is the point of cash full stop?
  • It's made me think of all the members of my family who were there at the start of her reign and watched the Coronation on the first tellies they had probably ever seen up close. Some I never met, but many I knew and loved and have now gone - my Dad, my grandparents, aunts and uncles.

    They were there at the start, just ordinary people who only a few years before had lived through the most traumatic events it is possible to imagine, huddled around a tiny black and white TV, watching it all happen as the rain fell outside.

    Now, 69 years later, it's my generation of the family and our kids watching on our big colour tellies, on our computers and on our phones, as it may well all be coming to an end. And the rain is falling outside.

    It's that link to the past through to today that the Queen represents for most of us - whether we are monarchists or republicans. It's not only about the country, it's about all our lives and the generations that come and then go. That's why this is such a big deal, why it is so sad.

    She has always been there. As everything else has changed, she has been there. Soon she won't be. It's quite hard to get your head round - at least for me.

    I am not expressing it well, I am not the writer some on here are, but I am sure you know what I mean.

    I think you express it extremely well and am very grateful you did.

    Thank-you.

  • MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    The funeral and coronation will be attended by dignitaries from across the world and the security will be vast

    Expect large parts of London closed on these two days as we witness the biggest events in decades
    Again, define "large parts". London is 607 square miles. What percentage of that do you think will be "closed"?
    I expect most of it to be closed
  • Ardent Republicans should have the decency to crawl under a stone at times such as these.
  • This might seem a little thing, but decimalisation will make this a particularly strange succession. Previous generations would have been used to having coinage with the representation of several monarchs in circulation, but most people have grown up with only QEII on the coins.

    Now, for the first time in decades, we will have a mix of coins circulating with QEII or KCIII on them. That will be strange.

    Not so! Before the downsizing of 5p and 10p pieces there used to be plenty of George VI 1s and 2s pieces in circulation. When I was a kid in the 1980s I remember being especially excited whenever I found one of the pre-48 ones with "Ind Imp" written on it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    MISTY said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

    Many people would, yes, to ensure the bigotry was dealt with and didn't happen again.

    Shooting the messenger is the alternative.
    But Barty, you have not a shred of credible evidence of bigotry. You just don't know. Do you make a habit of believing this sort of shit on the evidence of one person?
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    MISTY said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

    Many people would, yes, to ensure the bigotry was dealt with and didn't happen again.

    Shooting the messenger is the alternative.

    Yet another alternative would have been a quiet word in private with Kate and Wills, who are manifestly acutely sensitive to this stuff and would never tolerate it.

  • IshmaelZ said:

    MISTY said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe while Meghan and Kate are staying at Windsor without their husbands they might meet up and start trying to sort out some of this nonsense.

    Would you want to have talks with someone who insinuated on Prime time TV in America that bigotry was alive and well in your extended family?

    Many people would, yes, to ensure the bigotry was dealt with and didn't happen again.

    Shooting the messenger is the alternative.
    But Barty, you have not a shred of credible evidence of bigotry. You just don't know. Do you make a habit of believing this sort of shit on the evidence of one person?
    Yes. If someone raises concerns, then the right thing to do is to try and in good faith address the concerns, not try to tear to shreds the person raising concerns.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,486

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    The funeral and coronation will be attended by dignitaries from across the world and the security will be vast

    Expect large parts of London closed on these two days as we witness the biggest events in decades
    Again, define "large parts". London is 607 square miles. What percentage of that do you think will be "closed"?
    I expect most of it to be closed
    Most of London's 607 square miles will be closed.

    ONLY ON PB.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    edited September 2022

    MaxPB said:

    What is the actual protocol?
    Is tomorrow a bank holiday in the UK?

    Funeral day, government can plan for that at least. Then coronation day probably next spring.
    I wonder when that might be (assuming today is the day she passes). Week after next? It'll take time for all the setting up and arranging the visit of heads of state. I assume Biden would have to come plus many others. London will be locked down for it.

    I'll be in Greece for it if thats the case.
    "London will be locked down for it"

    No, it won't. Nine million of us live here and have work to do.

    Granted, a small area of town near the abbey or wherever they hold the funeral will be 'locked down' – but that is on a rather different scale.
    The funeral and coronation will be attended by dignitaries from across the world and the security will be vast

    Expect large parts of London closed on these two days as we witness the biggest events in decades
    Again, define "large parts". London is 607 square miles. What percentage of that do you think will be "closed"?
    The securuty operation alone will close down large parts of central London
    Large parts of "central London" now... again, can you define "large parts"?
    No, im not privy to the security operation. But loads of world leaders, the eyes of the whole world on London, they arent going to just let stuff go on as normal. Lots of spot checks, road closures etc
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Who is the Dean of the Diplomatic Corps now that Khaled Al-Duwaisan has ended his service as Kuwaiti ambassador? Has anyone been in office as ambassador or high commissioner in London longer than Cenio Lewis (appointed 24 Apr 2001) of St Vincent and the Grenadines?

    Accession (if there is one) will be proclaimed with gun salutes in Hyde Park and at the Tower of London. (Source.)

    Got to wonder what proportion of the Accession Council (if there is one) will have attended private school.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Ardent Republicans should have the decency to crawl under a stone at times such as these.

    Piss off Walty, entirely unnecessary and inappropriate.
This discussion has been closed.