Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Punters give her a 41% chance of being PM after next election – politicalbetting.com

1246714

Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,230


    TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
    Any practical solutions for that on offer?
    I understand she is to address doctors concerns over their pensions to retain them in the workforce

    This would be an excellent move
    And the nurses?
  • kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.

    There's simply no way to connect the assertion the government has done a fantastic job under the amazing Boris (ignore the others) but also that we are all absolutely screwed without radical action. The attempt is made to suggest it is all down to Putin, but that's putting too much on him for all our problems.
    The current PM clearly believes the Tories have wasted the last 12 years. I think she has a point. The question is, why did she tolerate it?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    biggles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    No, it's incoherent even as a metaphor.
    Going with "Brexit is like having a baby" would have made more sense.
    Because you’ll be paying for it the rest of your life?
    Brexit is very much like making love to a beautiful woman…

    What does that make me as an asexual Remainer?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    Scott_xP said:

    Massacre of the Rishi-ites? Dominic Raab, Grant Shapps, Steve Barclay all sacked from cabinet within an hour of Truss entering No10. Three of his most prominent front bench backers.
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1567197285490036751

    Back a loser what do you expect? I think the idea of a 'unity Cabinet' is a bit overrated - we'd hope a PM will not include mere sycophants, but also some on merit who may not be complete toadies, but high profile supporters of the key rival, or that rival? Why? They will swing behind the new leader if things go well, and if they don't even the 'loyal' ones will brief and moan to the press.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    .
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    No, it's incoherent even as a metaphor.
    Going with "Brexit is like having a baby" would have made more sense.
    Because you’ll be paying for it the rest of your life?
    Both you and @ydoethur are making me re-evalute Leon's favourite nonsense.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,568
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Grant Shapps sacked at Transport and returns to backbenches https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1567195630149242880

    What's Michael Green in line for?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,145

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss in commons doing sackings.. so far Raab, Barclay, and Shapps all out.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1567196654524047365

    Shapps is a clear error.

    I'd say that defenestrating Shapps is an excellent step. The man is shameless.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.
    Was injuncted by a court not to turn up, disobeyed injunction. the jail is for contempt not the underlying offence

    Also he said that this was all because of his Christian faith. It is a real struggle to derive from the Bible that God hates queers; it's fucking impossible to pinpoint where he rules out calling people "they."
    Amusingly, God is, in the Old Testament, gender neutral.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    dixiedean said:


    TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
    Any practical solutions for that on offer?
    I understand she is to address doctors concerns over their pensions to retain them in the workforce

    This would be an excellent move
    And the nurses?
    not in such immediate danger of ther pension pots exceeding £1.2m.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,230
    edited September 2022

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    He was fired.
    He was jailed for ignoring a banning order.
    Contempt of court.
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Massacre of the Rishi-ites? Dominic Raab, Grant Shapps, Steve Barclay all sacked from cabinet within an hour of Truss entering No10. Three of his most prominent front bench backers.
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1567197285490036751

    Back a loser what do you expect? I think the idea of a 'unity Cabinet' is a bit overrated - we'd hope a PM will not include mere sycophants, but also some on merit who may not be complete toadies, but high profile supporters of the key rival, or that rival? Why? They will swing behind the new leader if things go well, and if they don't even the 'loyal' ones will brief and moan to the press.
    A Cabinet needs to engage in collective responsibility. If rivals don't agree with policy there may be a role for them or not, but its not in the Cabinet.
  • When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    Sky - the sackings of the Sunak supporters

    Coming up..... Kay Burley kicks the face off a dog and Beth Rigby gets everything wrong in real time
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,112
    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prime minister Liz Truss in her first speech outside No.10:

    “Now is the time to tackle the issues that are holding Britain back.”

    https://twitter.com/SophiaSleigh/status/1567183127134584838


    Brexit...

    Really? Still? To you, Brexit is still Britain's #1 issue?
    She didn't say #1, she said holding Britain back.

    Absofuckinglutely, Brexit is holding Britain back.
    Well I don't agree, obviously. My view is that the negatives of Brexit over trade with the EU are outweighed by the positives - largely being disentangled from what appears to be a gradually unraveĺling shambles on the continent. But whatever. The impact either way is quite a long way down the list on what's holding Britain back, surely? Compared to energy costs, low productivity, safetyism, an inefficient state, an acute lack of housing, infrastructure issues... Brexit seems a long way down the list of concerns.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.

    There's simply no way to connect the assertion the government has done a fantastic job under the amazing Boris (ignore the others) but also that we are all absolutely screwed without radical action. The attempt is made to suggest it is all down to Putin, but that's putting too much on him for all our problems.
    The current PM clearly believes the Tories have wasted the last 12 years. I think she has a point. The question is, why did she tolerate it?

    The claim will be 'collective responsibility', but it doesn't work if you claim disastrous policies were being enacted.

    It reminds of of when Carswell defected to UKIP. He was so overblown about why he felt he needed to, how unhappy he had been about the wrong direction of the Tories etc, that rather than make clear why he defected it instead raised the question how he could possibly have stuck around for as long as he did.

    With Truss, the more she says what a terrible state we are in and in need of radical solutions, the more the question is how did it get that way - and it cannot all be Russia.
  • MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss in commons doing sackings.. so far Raab, Barclay, and Shapps all out.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1567196654524047365

    Shapps is a clear error.

    I'd say that defenestrating Shapps is an excellent step. The man is shameless.
    But that made him an excellent Lord Haw Haw for the outgoing shower.

    One thing I liked about his three-minute leadership campaign bid is that he was the only one who asked how the UK could grow an economy bigger than Germany’s.

    Sadly his campaign ended before he was able to provide answers.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    Scott_xP said:

    Massacre of the Rishi-ites? Dominic Raab, Grant Shapps, Steve Barclay all sacked from cabinet within an hour of Truss entering No10. Three of his most prominent front bench backers.
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1567197285490036751

    Early signs do not look like she is looking to bring the party together, sacking 3 of the biggest Rishi supporters
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    IshmaelZ said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.
    Was injuncted by a court not to turn up, disobeyed injunction. the jail is for contempt not the underlying offence

    Also he said that this was all because of his Christian faith. It is a real struggle to derive from the Bible that God hates queers; it's fucking impossible to pinpoint where he rules out calling people "they."
    It's possible to infer that They are a grammar pedant like ydoethur.
    All that stuff about taking names in vain, etc.

    But you could argue that the other way, too.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    Cookie said:

    Brexit seems a long way down the list of concerns.

    Not to the people for whom it entirely fucked their business.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    He was fired.
    He was jailed for ignoring a banning order not to go near the school.
    I cannot, for the life of me, understand why he would breach such an order. There always seemed to me to be something vaguely sad and disturbing about ex-colleagues who tried to hang round the place.

    And of course, it's landed him in prison anyway, which makes it a doubly stupid idea.
  • When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    Sadly you won’t be getting anything despite your occasional services.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    No, it's incoherent even as a metaphor.
    Going with "Brexit is like having a baby" would have made more sense.
    Because you’ll be paying for it the rest of your life?
    Brexit is very much like making love to a beautiful woman…

    What does that make me as an asexual Remainer?
    Sh*t out of luck.
    Like the rest of us.
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Massacre of the Rishi-ites? Dominic Raab, Grant Shapps, Steve Barclay all sacked from cabinet within an hour of Truss entering No10. Three of his most prominent front bench backers.
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1567197285490036751

    Early signs do not look like she is looking to bring the party together, sacking 3 of the biggest Rishi supporters
    Sacked incompetence is a good start
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    edited September 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    He was fired.
    He was jailed for ignoring a banning order.
    Contempt of court.
    Hes not even been fired yet, he was on discipilnary leave whilst its dealt with
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,507

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    I am no expert but I’d be amazed if transgender is mentioned in the bible. He has failed the ‘don’t be a dick’ test.
  • When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    It varies. May's was three months after the door to Number 10 closed, Cameron was one month (Blair and Brown didn't do it after the Cash for Honours scandal). I suspect it'll be nearer the May figure as there's likely to be some vetting going on (one hopes). But it's not a set time.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,568
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    East London's turn to get a soaking!

    Just checked the forecast for tomorrow and it looks spectacular!
    Light showers, sunny intervals, moderate breeze says the BBC. Sounds normal for the end of summer? Here in the eastern US the heavens have opened.
    Have you emigrated or on holiday?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    What is it with your obsession with charisma?

    This is about running the country not prime time entertainment.
    9 times out of 10 you need charisma to win a general election to govern the country for a sustainable period, that is just reality now whether you like it or not
    You need a kind of charisma, certainly.

    Mind you, Helen Clark of NZ won three terms despite having the social skills of a closet full of mothballs and a face like Dracula’s granny.
    She was fortunate her opponents were even more dull eg Don Brash and Bill English and she then lost to John Key
  • ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    He was fired.
    He was jailed for ignoring a banning order not to go near the school.
    I cannot, for the life of me, understand why he would breach such an order. There always seemed to me to be something vaguely sad and disturbing about ex-colleagues who tried to hang round the place.

    And of course, it's landed him in prison anyway, which makes it a doubly stupid idea.
    Its disturbing in any workplace.

    Its doubly disturbing surely in schools to have unauthorised adults hanging around the place.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 2,356


    TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
    Any practical solutions for that on offer?
    Yes. Go back to the old fashioned system of going to the surgery during opening hours and wait in the waiting room until it’s your turn. Plus evening and weekend surgeries for working people.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,732

    Well I have now reached that point in life when I am older than the PM.

    Youngsters running the country!

    I reached that point in 2010 (older than Cameron).
    Yes, me too, though I was younger than May or Johnson, so Truss is the second PM born after me. Starmer is older so might get a reprieve in a couple of years.

    It doesn't look as if there will be a POTUS younger than me for quite some time.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,782
    Roads? FFS

    Driving is the only form of transport that has actually got cheaper over the last 20 years, and the numbers of cars has grown accordingly. Hence the massive gridlock in all our cities.

    Buses. HS2. And anyone driving less than a mile is dragged to a bicycle shop and offered a two-wheeled freedom vehicle.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491

    When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    May's were announced on 10 September according to wiki, so about 6 weeks after her resignation
    Cameron's were announced on 4 August, about 4 weeks after his resignation.

    Apparently Brown and Blair did not have any.
  • When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    It varies. May's was three months after the door to Number 10 closed, Cameron was one month (Blair and Brown didn't do it after the Cash for Honours scandal). I suspect it'll be nearer the May figure as there's likely to be some vetting going on (one hopes). But it's not a set time.
    Thanks
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Massacre of the Rishi-ites? Dominic Raab, Grant Shapps, Steve Barclay all sacked from cabinet within an hour of Truss entering No10. Three of his most prominent front bench backers.
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1567197285490036751

    Back a loser what do you expect? I think the idea of a 'unity Cabinet' is a bit overrated - we'd hope a PM will not include mere sycophants, but also some on merit who may not be complete toadies, but high profile supporters of the key rival, or that rival? Why? They will swing behind the new leader if things go well, and if they don't even the 'loyal' ones will brief and moan to the press.
    Competent cabinet ministers are a bit of a rarity, less than half turn out well. It is when those ministers are dispensed with for the private political gain of the leader that the country suffers a loss. Losing Raab and Shapps makes no difference, Truss may replace them with someone worse but they deserved the sack regardless for so many reasons. Barclay was relatively competent for both May and Johnson, he may be a slight loss.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    Sadly you won’t be getting anything despite your occasional services.
    I think we should dub this one The Wine List 🤭
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,230
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.

    There's simply no way to connect the assertion the government has done a fantastic job under the amazing Boris (ignore the others) but also that we are all absolutely screwed without radical action. The attempt is made to suggest it is all down to Putin, but that's putting too much on him for all our problems.
    The current PM clearly believes the Tories have wasted the last 12 years. I think she has a point. The question is, why did she tolerate it?

    The claim will be 'collective responsibility', but it doesn't work if you claim disastrous policies were being enacted.

    It reminds of of when Carswell defected to UKIP. He was so overblown about why he felt he needed to, how unhappy he had been about the wrong direction of the Tories etc, that rather than make clear why he defected it instead raised the question how he could possibly have stuck around for as long as he did.

    With Truss, the more she says what a terrible state we are in and in need of radical solutions, the more the question is how did it get that way - and it cannot all be Russia.
    It's COVID, too.
    And the Labour government.
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Massacre of the Rishi-ites? Dominic Raab, Grant Shapps, Steve Barclay all sacked from cabinet within an hour of Truss entering No10. Three of his most prominent front bench backers.
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1567197285490036751

    Early signs do not look like she is looking to bring the party together, sacking 3 of the biggest Rishi supporters
    Who should she sack instead? Every PM in this situation needs to create room to promote their own supporters and up and comers.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,393
    Pleased that Grant Shapps is out of government.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    He was fired.
    He was jailed for ignoring a banning order.
    Contempt of court.
    Hes not even been fired yet, he was on discipilnary leave whilst its dealt with
    I think we take it as a foregone conclusion he is now fired!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,732
    dixiedean said:


    TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
    Any practical solutions for that on offer?
    I understand she is to address doctors concerns over their pensions to retain them in the workforce

    This would be an excellent move
    And the nurses?
    Similar issues. They are not allowed to keep their pension and work full time after 1st October, when the Covid rules expire.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Really? Where? All documents I have seen from that period use 'he' as a shorthand for a single person of unknown gender.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Shocked to see a teacher refer to they as a plural noun. Its always been both third person singular and third person plural.
  • Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prime minister Liz Truss in her first speech outside No.10:

    “Now is the time to tackle the issues that are holding Britain back.”

    https://twitter.com/SophiaSleigh/status/1567183127134584838


    Brexit...

    Really? Still? To you, Brexit is still Britain's #1 issue?
    She didn't say #1, she said holding Britain back.

    Absofuckinglutely, Brexit is holding Britain back.
    Well I don't agree, obviously. My view is that the negatives of Brexit over trade with the EU are outweighed by the positives - largely being disentangled from what appears to be a gradually unraveĺling shambles on the continent. But whatever. The impact either way is quite a long way down the list on what's holding Britain back, surely? Compared to energy costs, low productivity, safetyism, an inefficient state, an acute lack of housing, infrastructure issues... Brexit seems a long way down the list of concerns.
    Yes, quite so.
    It's not Brexit holding Britain back. It's 12 years of hopeless Tory governments. At least Truss recognises this.....
  • When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    Sadly you won’t be getting anything despite your occasional services.
    There is no way I would be interested in the HOLS

    It needs reforming and getting rid of bishops and so many hangers on
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    edited September 2022
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.

    There's simply no way to connect the assertion the government has done a fantastic job under the amazing Boris (ignore the others) but also that we are all absolutely screwed without radical action. The attempt is made to suggest it is all down to Putin, but that's putting too much on him for all our problems.
    The current PM clearly believes the Tories have wasted the last 12 years. I think she has a point. The question is, why did she tolerate it?

    The claim will be 'collective responsibility', but it doesn't work if you claim disastrous policies were being enacted.

    It reminds of of when Carswell defected to UKIP. He was so overblown about why he felt he needed to, how unhappy he had been about the wrong direction of the Tories etc, that rather than make clear why he defected it instead raised the question how he could possibly have stuck around for as long as he did.

    With Truss, the more she says what a terrible state we are in and in need of radical solutions, the more the question is how did it get that way - and it cannot all be Russia.
    It's COVID, too.
    And the Labour government.
    And tbf its smoke and mirrors. One must draw attention to both real and imagined chaos in order to get credit for bringing order
  • When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    When he has had time to check the contents of the envelopes?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484

    Leon said:

    Why are these major things pooing everywhere

    We still talking about Therese Coffey?
    there are major things pooing and it is everywhere now isn’t it
  • When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    Sadly you won’t be getting anything despite your occasional services.
    Occasional? Big G's at over 50,000 posts!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.

    There's simply no way to connect the assertion the government has done a fantastic job under the amazing Boris (ignore the others) but also that we are all absolutely screwed without radical action. The attempt is made to suggest it is all down to Putin, but that's putting too much on him for all our problems.
    The current PM clearly believes the Tories have wasted the last 12 years. I think she has a point. The question is, why did she tolerate it?

    The claim will be 'collective responsibility', but it doesn't work if you claim disastrous policies were being enacted.

    It reminds of of when Carswell defected to UKIP. He was so overblown about why he felt he needed to, how unhappy he had been about the wrong direction of the Tories etc, that rather than make clear why he defected it instead raised the question how he could possibly have stuck around for as long as he did.

    With Truss, the more she says what a terrible state we are in and in need of radical solutions, the more the question is how did it get that way - and it cannot all be Russia.
    It's COVID, too.
    And the Labour government.
    Naturally, the 'last government' excuse was still used by Labour 13 years into power so of course the current lot still use it. But they were saying they were doing great despite those two things. Certainly as compared to now, but apparently we have deep structural issues we have failed to address this whole time.

    But I'm sure increasing spending on things people like, and cutting tax, will solve it all.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    Dig to deliver.
    Frack to the future
    😆 . .
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are these major things pooing everywhere

    We still talking about Therese Coffey?
    there are major things pooing and it is everywhere now isn’t it
    That must have been a very, very large gin and tonic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    Sadly you won’t be getting anything despite your occasional services.
    There is no way I would be interested in the HOLS

    It needs reforming and getting rid of bishops and so many hangers on
    There are far more Lords who could be got rid of then Bishops, who make up less than 5% and then to have come from Parish ministry and know local communities and are amongst the most educated in the House. As long as it is still an appointed not elected House the Bishops must be there
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    edited September 2022

    When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    Sadly you won’t be getting anything despite your occasional services.
    Occasional? Big G's at over 50,000 posts!
    Yes, but since 2014. Leon's a newbie present since 2020 and already halfway to that. So more occasional.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    He was fired.
    He was jailed for ignoring a banning order not to go near the school.
    I cannot, for the life of me, understand why he would breach such an order. There always seemed to me to be something vaguely sad and disturbing about ex-colleagues who tried to hang round the place.

    And of course, it's landed him in prison anyway, which makes it a doubly stupid idea.
    Its disturbing in any workplace.

    Its doubly disturbing surely in schools to have unauthorised adults hanging around the place.
    I think he was after martyrdom.

    Enoch Burke is a great name.

    Anglican, not surprisingly.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    He was fired.
    He was jailed for ignoring a banning order.
    Contempt of court.
    Hes not even been fired yet, he was on discipilnary leave whilst its dealt with
    I think we take it as a foregone conclusion he is now fired!
    The sensible money has gone that way. But this is Ireland after all. An intervention from Mary Robinson, Dana and Roy Keane and who knows?!
  • Scott_xP said:

    Truss in commons doing sackings.. so far Raab, Barclay, and Shapps all out.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1567196654524047365

    Shapps is a clear error.

    Yes, but now he's gone, so all OK.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491

    When do we get Johnson 's resignation honours list

    When he has had time to check the contents of the envelopes?
    A totally no strings attached we swear offer of a holiday in a friend's caribbean mansion, please.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Really? Where? All documents I have seen from that period use 'he' as a shorthand for a single person of unknown gender.
    https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

    Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed. It’s the word we use for sentences like Everyone loves his mother.

    But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    ,
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are these major things pooing everywhere

    We still talking about Therese Coffey?
    there are major things pooing and it is everywhere now isn’t it
    That must have been a very, very large gin and tonic.
    Cloudy, With a Chance of Dung Balls....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are these major things pooing everywhere

    We still talking about Therese Coffey?
    there are major things pooing and it is everywhere now isn’t it
    That must have been a very, very large gin and tonic.


    No, I’m just so bored of British politics I am trying to see what it is like if you have brain damage
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:


    TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
    Any practical solutions for that on offer?
    I understand she is to address doctors concerns over their pensions to retain them in the workforce

    This would be an excellent move
    And the nurses?
    not in such immediate danger of ther pension pots exceeding £1.2m.
    But in the public sector, if you have a pension activated, you can't go back to work in the same field without your pension often being docked. Which is a bit shit. (The rules are fairly technical, and IIRC a low level of part time work is probably not an issue.)

    That applies to everyone, I think (except, presumably, MPs). Pension pot not relevant, I think (though that is also an issue).
  • kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.

    There's simply no way to connect the assertion the government has done a fantastic job under the amazing Boris (ignore the others) but also that we are all absolutely screwed without radical action. The attempt is made to suggest it is all down to Putin, but that's putting too much on him for all our problems.
    Careful, that sort of loose-lipped talk gives succour to evil uncle Vlad.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,624
    Looks like the UK will soon be withdrawing from the ECHR if the odious Braverman has her way . Patel replaced by an equally nasty individual .
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Really? Where? All documents I have seen from that period use 'he' as a shorthand for a single person of unknown gender.
    https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

    Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed. It’s the word we use for sentences like Everyone loves his mother.

    But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
    But that sentence isn't a singular. If it says 'each man' that means there's more than one.

    And your own link notes the Chicago Manual of Style doesn't agree.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    He was fired.
    He was jailed for ignoring a banning order not to go near the school.
    I cannot, for the life of me, understand why he would breach such an order. There always seemed to me to be something vaguely sad and disturbing about ex-colleagues who tried to hang round the place.

    And of course, it's landed him in prison anyway, which makes it a doubly stupid idea.
    Its disturbing in any workplace.

    Its doubly disturbing surely in schools to have unauthorised adults hanging around the place.
    I think he was after martyrdom.

    Enoch Burke is a great name.

    Anglican, not surprisingly.
    Matthew 19:12 and several similar passages suggest he's not much of a Christian, either.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,393
    edited September 2022

    The Truss pitch:

    The last 12 years have been a disaster for the UK

    I was at the heart of it all

    Trust me to put it right

    It's true the Tories haven't done anything very conservative over the last 12 years.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    Truss being ruthless is a good sign. She’s gonna need steely resolve these coming months

    ALSO she isn’t boring. Not in the Starmer way. The necklace and the dress

    Unless Keir has a secret love dungeon and likes asphyxiaphilia and ageplay - and I rather doubt this - then he is more boring

    What Truss is, is a boring, wooden SPEAKER
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,253
    SKY guy shouting to people going in to 10 Downing Street, whilst giving an interview to the studio.

    What a wanker. Like they are going to respond....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    nico679 said:

    Looks like the UK will soon be withdrawing from the ECHR if the odious Braverman has her way . Patel replaced by an equally nasty individual .

    It is surely the principal reason for her appointment. Stop the boats, get out of the ECHR, job done - it'll give endless chances for them to claim Labour want to give succour to criminals.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are these major things pooing everywhere

    We still talking about Therese Coffey?
    there are major things pooing and it is everywhere now isn’t it
    That must have been a very, very large gin and tonic.
    No, I’m just so bored of British politics I am trying to see what it is like if you have brain damage
    A VERY, VERY large G&T, then.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Really? Where? All documents I have seen from that period use 'he' as a shorthand for a single person of unknown gender.
    https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

    Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed. It’s the word we use for sentences like Everyone loves his mother.

    But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
    But that sentence isn't a singular. If it says 'each man' that means there's more than one.

    And your own link notes the Chicago Manual of Style doesn't agree.
    Americanese is not English. Though related, admittedly, in the manner of an elephant and a manatee.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    Looks like Rishi and all his cabinet supporters are out. Stupid really. Firstly, talent is thin enough on the ground. Secondly, it creates a natural base for rebellions, grumbling etc. Thirdly, this really should be all hands on deck.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Really? Where? All documents I have seen from that period use 'he' as a shorthand for a single person of unknown gender.
    https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

    Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed. It’s the word we use for sentences like Everyone loves his mother.

    But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
    But that sentence isn't a singular. If it says 'each man' that means there's more than one.

    And your own link notes the Chicago Manual of Style doesn't agree.
    Americanese is not English. Though related, admittedly, in the manner of an elephant and a manatee.
    Tusk, tusk.

    There is a serious point, in that the CMS while focused on American English is actually generally used as a standard grammar guide in a way the OED is for spelling.

    So if they agree with me, regardless of what Ishmael thinks I'm happy I'm right.

  • TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
    Any practical solutions for that on offer?
    Yes. Go back to the old fashioned system of going to the surgery during opening hours and wait in the waiting room until it’s your turn. Plus evening and weekend surgeries for working people.
    Go back to the old fashioned system? Ahh I see, that would sort it. Haha.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 2,356
    Scott_xP said:

    Massacre of the Rishi-ites? Dominic Raab, Grant Shapps, Steve Barclay all sacked from cabinet within an hour of Truss entering No10. Three of his most prominent front bench backers.
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1567197285490036751

    Maybe they’ll be invited to reapply for their jobs on a lower salary and worse employment terms. It’s the Tory way.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 20,039
    HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    I'm amazed that 7% of voters even know what Reform is. Are they campaigning in the Red Wall? Do they have constituency associations? Public meetings? Down here I've not heard them mentioned - ever.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Leon said:

    Truss being ruthless is a good sign. She’s gonna need steely resolve these coming months

    ALSO she isn’t boring. Not in the Starmer way. The necklace and the dress

    Unless Keir has a secret love dungeon and likes asphyxiaphilia and ageplay - and I rather doubt this - then he is more boring

    What Truss is, is a boring, wooden SPEAKER

    Sir Keir Starmer's functional fornication hour. With subtitles and appopriate graphic content warnings. Tune in next week for Sir Keirs guide to tepid love making in an energy crisis.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,624
    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Looks like the UK will soon be withdrawing from the ECHR if the odious Braverman has her way . Patel replaced by an equally nasty individual .

    It is surely the principal reason for her appointment. Stop the boats, get out of the ECHR, job done - it'll give endless chances for them to claim Labour want to give succour to criminals.
    Unfortunately the general public don’t seem to realize how many rights have been secured by the ECHR . I’m hoping there’s enough backbench Tories who would rebel and stop that from happening . It wasn’t in the manifesto , the HOL should not back down if legislation gets there. Can you imagine the optics at this time for the UK to be withdrawing from the ECHR .
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,467

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Perhaps she has discovered a network of subterranean hot springs
  • Special relationship klaxon.

    @POTUS
    Congratulations to Prime Minister Liz Truss.

    I look forward to deepening the special relationship between our countries and working in close cooperation on global challenges, including continued support for Ukraine as it defends itself against Russian aggression.


    https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1567184098195537921
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Really? Where? All documents I have seen from that period use 'he' as a shorthand for a single person of unknown gender.
    https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

    Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed. It’s the word we use for sentences like Everyone loves his mother.

    But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
    But that sentence isn't a singular. If it says 'each man' that means there's more than one.

    And your own link notes the Chicago Manual of Style doesn't agree.
    Americanese is not English. Though related, admittedly, in the manner of an elephant and a manatee.
    Tusk, tusk.

    There is a serious point, in that the CMS while focused on American English is actually generally used as a standard grammar guide in a way the OED is for spelling.

    So if they agree with me, regardless of what Ishmael thinks I'm happy I'm right.
    Oh, really? Well, well. Ivery much am surprised at the sirenian call of transatlantic grammar.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    DavidL said:

    Looks like Rishi and all his cabinet supporters are out. Stupid really. Firstly, talent is thin enough on the ground. Secondly, it creates a natural base for rebellions, grumbling etc. Thirdly, this really should be all hands on deck.

    Although truthfully I can't imagine Sunak would have appointed Truss or her coterie to the cabinet if he had won.

    The party's hopelessly split. About the only positive is it seems to be largely about personality rather than policy so hopefully when all involved leave Parliament in five years it should be easy to move on.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why are these major things pooing everywhere

    We still talking about Therese Coffey?
    there are major things pooing and it is everywhere now isn’t it
    That must have been a very, very large gin and tonic.
    No, I’m just so bored of British politics I am trying to see what it is like if you have brain damage
    A VERY, VERY large G&T, then.
    Non

    This is the first vinho branco of the day. Tho probably not the last




  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    Leon said:

    Truss being ruthless is a good sign. She’s gonna need steely resolve these coming months

    ALSO she isn’t boring. Not in the Starmer way. The necklace and the dress

    Unless Keir has a secret love dungeon and likes asphyxiaphilia and ageplay - and I rather doubt this - then he is more boring

    What Truss is, is a boring, wooden SPEAKER

    Yes but how the PM and Leader of the Opposition speak is 90% of what the average voter sees of them
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,019

    HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    I'm amazed that 7% of voters even know what Reform is. Are they campaigning in the Red Wall? Do they have constituency associations? Public meetings? Down here I've not heard them mentioned - ever.
    Perhaps they mean the think-tank our Prime Minister used to work for.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Really? Where? All documents I have seen from that period use 'he' as a shorthand for a single person of unknown gender.
    https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

    Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed. It’s the word we use for sentences like Everyone loves his mother.

    But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
    But that sentence isn't a singular. If it says 'each man' that means there's more than one.

    And your own link notes the Chicago Manual of Style doesn't agree.
    Americanese is not English. Though related, admittedly, in the manner of an elephant and a manatee.
    Tusk, tusk.

    There is a serious point, in that the CMS while focused on American English is actually generally used as a standard grammar guide in a way the OED is for spelling.

    So if they agree with me, regardless of what Ishmael thinks I'm happy I'm right.
    Oh, really? Well, well. Ivery much am surprised at the sirenian call of transatlantic grammar.
    You shouldn't be. They get everywhere. Like an embarrassing disease that nobody talks about.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    I'm amazed that 7% of voters even know what Reform is. Are they campaigning in the Red Wall? Do they have constituency associations? Public meetings? Down here I've not heard them mentioned - ever.
    I wonder if Redfield are redirecting 'brexit party' responses to Reform given BXP were running pretty hot in parts of the red wall in 19
  • DavidL said:

    Looks like Rishi and all his cabinet supporters are out. Stupid really. Firstly, talent is thin enough on the ground. Secondly, it creates a natural base for rebellions, grumbling etc. Thirdly, this really should be all hands on deck.

    I'll say it again, she'll be ousted by conference 2023.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Really? Where? All documents I have seen from that period use 'he' as a shorthand for a single person of unknown gender.
    https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

    Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed. It’s the word we use for sentences like Everyone loves his mother.

    But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
    But that sentence isn't a singular. If it says 'each man' that means there's more than one.

    And your own link notes the Chicago Manual of Style doesn't agree.
    Americanese is not English. Though related, admittedly, in the manner of an elephant and a manatee.
    Tusk, tusk.

    There is a serious point, in that the CMS while focused on American English is actually generally used as a standard grammar guide in a way the OED is for spelling.

    So if they agree with me, regardless of what Ishmael thinks I'm happy I'm right.
    you are saying "each man" is plural?

    Respect. A positively HYUFDian claim.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:


    TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
    Any practical solutions for that on offer?
    I understand she is to address doctors concerns over their pensions to retain them in the workforce

    This would be an excellent move
    And the nurses?
    not in such immediate danger of ther pension pots exceeding £1.2m.
    Indeed. Of course the Biggles solution would be to act to cut private firms out of the NHS market, nationalise all GPs, point out to doctors they have nowhere else to go and note that if you’re at the lifetime limit you’re doing ok and should not get a taxpayer handout.

    (And then reinvest what it would have cost in nurse and junior doctor pay).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    nico679 said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Looks like the UK will soon be withdrawing from the ECHR if the odious Braverman has her way . Patel replaced by an equally nasty individual .

    It is surely the principal reason for her appointment. Stop the boats, get out of the ECHR, job done - it'll give endless chances for them to claim Labour want to give succour to criminals.
    Unfortunately the general public don’t seem to realize how many rights have been secured by the ECHR . I’m hoping there’s enough backbench Tories who would rebel and stop that from happening . It wasn’t in the manifesto , the HOL should not back down if legislation gets there. Can you imagine the optics at this time for the UK to be withdrawing from the ECHR .
    No one gives a fuck, sorry. A load of Bulgarian judges telling ENGLAND what to do. The cheek
  • ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Really? Where? All documents I have seen from that period use 'he' as a shorthand for a single person of unknown gender.
    https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

    Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed. It’s the word we use for sentences like Everyone loves his mother.

    But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
    But that sentence isn't a singular. If it says 'each man' that means there's more than one.

    And your own link notes the Chicago Manual of Style doesn't agree.
    Each man is singular by their self surely?

    If singular they is due to trans issues then as a child of the eighties the Rocky Horror Show of the seventies must have really shook up education as we were always taught third person singular they.

    Somebody has left their umbrella in the room.
    I met a friend at the beach, they had an ice cream and I had candy floss.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    He was fired.
    He was jailed for ignoring a banning order not to go near the school.
    I cannot, for the life of me, understand why he would breach such an order. There always seemed to me to be something vaguely sad and disturbing about ex-colleagues who tried to hang round the place.

    And of course, it's landed him in prison anyway, which makes it a doubly stupid idea.
    Its disturbing in any workplace.

    Its doubly disturbing surely in schools to have unauthorised adults hanging around the place.
    I think he was after martyrdom.

    Enoch Burke is a great name.

    Anglican, not surprisingly.
    He will be a hero to the anti Woke right though, Leon will have a poster of him on his wall soon enough
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    nico679 said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Looks like the UK will soon be withdrawing from the ECHR if the odious Braverman has her way . Patel replaced by an equally nasty individual .

    It is surely the principal reason for her appointment. Stop the boats, get out of the ECHR, job done - it'll give endless chances for them to claim Labour want to give succour to criminals.
    Unfortunately the general public don’t seem to realize how many rights have been secured by the ECHR . I’m hoping there’s enough backbench Tories who would rebel and stop that from happening . It wasn’t in the manifesto , the HOL should not back down if legislation gets there. Can you imagine the optics at this time for the UK to be withdrawing from the ECHR .
    I'm as frustrated as the next man when awful people piss about trying to use some right to delay or obstruct things, but rights are there to protect awful people too, in fact they may well emerge thanks to those awful people challenging things. I just don't see how withdrawing would be a proportionate action - the reputational hit, the unpicking of the bits we like and bits we do not and potential to cock up, it just doesn't seem worth it. But it is presented as some quick and easy fix, which is why it cannot be trusted.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
    No it isn't. been in constant use as a singular since at the latest 1375.
    Really? Where? All documents I have seen from that period use 'he' as a shorthand for a single person of unknown gender.
    https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

    Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent – the word the pronoun refers to – is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed. It’s the word we use for sentences like Everyone loves his mother.

    But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.’
    But that sentence isn't a singular. If it says 'each man' that means there's more than one.

    And your own link notes the Chicago Manual of Style doesn't agree.
    Americanese is not English. Though related, admittedly, in the manner of an elephant and a manatee.
    Tusk, tusk.

    There is a serious point, in that the CMS while focused on American English is actually generally used as a standard grammar guide in a way the OED is for spelling.

    So if they agree with me, regardless of what Ishmael thinks I'm happy I'm right.
    you are saying "each man" is plural?

    Respect. A positively HYUFDian claim.
    No, I'm saying if they refer to 'each man' it means there was more than one of them!

    You wouldn't use the word 'each' instead of 'the' for just one, would you?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491

    Special relationship klaxon.

    @POTUS
    Congratulations to Prime Minister Liz Truss.

    I look forward to deepening the special relationship between our countries and working in close cooperation on global challenges, including continued support for Ukraine as it defends itself against Russian aggression.


    https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1567184098195537921

    I wish he didn't say special, just so we can get some commentators here wetting themselves in outrage about it.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Looks like the UK will soon be withdrawing from the ECHR if the odious Braverman has her way . Patel replaced by an equally nasty individual .

    It is surely the principal reason for her appointment. Stop the boats, get out of the ECHR, job done - it'll give endless chances for them to claim Labour want to give succour to criminals.
    I find the best question to ask anyone who says they want to withdraw is which particular bit they dislike. They generally can’t point to anything as the whole document is basic good sense.
This discussion has been closed.