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Punters give her a 41% chance of being PM after next election – politicalbetting.com

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,603
    HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    What is it with your obsession with charisma?

    This is about running the country not prime time entertainment.
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    In fairness, if people want support is there anyone but taxpayers who will be on the hook?
    Future taxpayers?
  • HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    Seems you are not on team Truss yet and still lamenting Johnson and even Farage
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    Let the sackings commence. Liz Truss is in her Parliament office, removing current cabinet ministers before announcing her new front bench.
  • @MoonRabbit from last thread
    Thats what im waiting to see. The Truss plan and Starmer plan will probably have similar net effects in freezing but truss AIUI is for 2 years and slightly better protects lower end users whilst punishing higher end a bit more.
    The key however is businesses - Davey and Starmers freeze does nothing for them, if Truss does then her plan is superior regardless of raising 4% of the cost via a windfall tax or not.
    No point us all staying warm and there being no businesses left to utilise and work for
    Edit - no business measures and Truss can do one on day one

    Horse Battery can make a fine socialist out of you yet, Woolie if you are selling us a socialist energy price freeze on PB 🤭

    I don’t dislike the element of trying some compulsion of everyone saving energy, but is it enough compulsion and no inherent vice?

    Labours policy would be the best value for money option for the nation, at shielding billpayers from the imminent 80% rise set for October, and another jump in January. The weakness of it though is the crisis will not be over by March 2023.

    My main attack on Truss leaked proposal, and that is all it is, she hasn’t nailed herself to anything, is the need for windfall tax to pay for some it, not just fairness signalling, but the political element of getting much needed buy in from the public.
    A windfall tax already exists though. I could see the logic of extending its duration as a signal only, not its scope.
    Labours policy leaves business to wither on the vine. Economically catastrophic for millions via job losses, services lost etc. It was too rushed, too limited in scope and too focussed on 'getting in the news'
    And there lies the problem. Labour doesn't understand business. It never has (even during Blair premiership) and it never will. It sees business, whether large or small as a cash cow to tax as much as possible. It is why I would have struggled to vote Labour even if the Clown was still PM.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,624
    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.
  • Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,883
    MaxPB said:

    Driver said:

    @MoonRabbit from last thread
    Thats what im waiting to see. The Truss plan and Starmer plan will probably have similar net effects in freezing but truss AIUI is for 2 years and slightly better protects lower end users whilst punishing higher end a bit more.
    The key however is businesses - Davey and Starmers freeze does nothing for them, if Truss does then her plan is superior regardless of raising 4% of the cost via a windfall tax or not.
    No point us all staying warm and there being no businesses left to utilise and work for
    Edit - no business measures and Truss can do one on day one

    Horse Battery can make a fine socialist out of you yet, Woolie if you are selling us a socialist energy price freeze on PB 🤭

    I don’t dislike the element of trying some compulsion of everyone saving energy, but is it enough compulsion and no inherent vice?

    Labours policy would be the best value for money option for the nation, at shielding billpayers from the imminent 80% rise set for October, and another jump in January. The weakness of it though is the crisis will not be over by March 2023.

    My main attack on Truss leaked proposal, and that is all it is, she hasn’t nailed herself to anything, is the need for windfall tax to pay for some it, not just fairness signalling, but the political element of getting much needed buy in from the public.
    The problems with the windfall tax idea include, but are not limited to:

    (a) Not all "energy firms" have made massive profits. The energy suppliers - the firms that ordinary people actually deal with - really haven't;
    (b) Those firms that have made bigger profits than usual are in many cases just balancing out the losses they made during lockdown. Why should we tax the profits but not compensate the losses?
    (c) we need vast investment in energy generation to drive energy independence.
    Why would firms invest if the profits are taxed away?
    d) Explain by what mechanism we can tax the Qatari government and other non-UK based gas producers.
    We can get them to buy all the rest of the football clubs and let them splurge on building new stadiums and paying stupid wages thus boosting the vat and income tax takes. Problem solved.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Let the sackings commence. Liz Truss is in her Parliament office, removing current cabinet ministers before announcing her new front bench.

    There are no current cabinet ministers.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    Scott_xP said:
    No f***in shit Sherlock.

    There is no free lunch, no government money to be splurged that doesn't end up back on taxpayers. If you demand 'the government' takes action then it is taxpayers money they spend when they do.
    If only the governmemt would use their own money!
    Taxpayers are on the hook! Quick, windfall tax some payers of tax.....
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 2,356
    TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    Seems you are not on team Truss yet and still lamenting Johnson and even Farage
    Well after that speech I would hardly call it inspiring oratory but we await and see what her policies are.

    I will always support the leader of the Tory Party whoever they are, including Truss but I am also not going to stop saying what I genuinely think about the political situation on here
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,914
    edited September 2022
    Leon said:

    She’s better than TMay and she might even be competent and capable

    However I just can’t see her doing enough to overcome the massive desire to kick the Tories out and give the other lot a go

    Labour should be heavy favourites for 2024

    That's the baby!

    Spot on, agreed, well said, "this", +1, hats off etc
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    She's going to make us all dig holes this winter, so we're very warm and don't need heating?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    What is it with your obsession with charisma?

    This is about running the country not prime time entertainment.
    9 times out of 10 you need charisma to win a general election to govern the country for a sustainable period, that is just reality now whether you like it or not
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,918
    Has Graham Brady reached the threshold yet?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,662
    Just listening to Liz Truss's speech... honestly she sounds pretty good to me. Her delivery is way better than you'd think reading people on here.
  • Listening to the vox pops seems the general response is to give Truss a hearing

    I am not surprised but she has a big mountain to climb
  • nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Lol. That is one of the most amusing posts I have seen on here for a while. It does seem that listening to the views of the general populace too often damages one's faith in the principle of universal suffrage. Vox pops should come with a health warning.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    I saw a proper mad tweet reply earlier. Essentially recoup the cost of a CoL bill by clawing back dodgy expense claims by MPs
  • HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    What is it with your obsession with charisma?

    This is about running the country not prime time entertainment.
    9 times out of 10 you need charisma to win a general election to govern the country for a sustainable period, that is just reality now whether you like it or not
    You need a kind of charisma, certainly.

    Mind you, Helen Clark of NZ won three terms despite having the social skills of a closet full of mothballs and a face like Dracula’s granny.
  • nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Sorry but that thinking is just wrong and indeed largely accounts for brexit
  • Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    Another great decision.

    So far I am 100% on board with Truss’s announcements.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,603

    nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Lol. That is one of the most amusing posts I have seen on here for a while. It does seem that listening to the views of the general populace too often damages one's faith in the principle of universal suffrage. Vox pops should come with a health warning.
    Anyone who has been canvassing knows that already. But it’s better than the alternatives.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779

    As a young person I will tell you of my priorities from PM Truss:

    CoL - energy bills
    Housing - we need to build lots of houses and bring prices down so we can get on the ladder
    Education - sort out tuition fees
    Transport - fix rising costs and terrible service

    I will judge PM Truss on those

    So with the 2 quid bus fare cap, if there is an extensive energy bills package this week you'll be thinking what a start!
    Yes bus cap is a good start but we need work on the railways too.
    She didn't mention railways. Just building roads. Twice.
    Ms Sturgeon said something about holding Scotrail fares till at least March 2023. Don't know the details, mind, and the usual increase is in January anyway.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    .
    MaxPB said:

    Driver said:

    @MoonRabbit from last thread
    Thats what im waiting to see. The Truss plan and Starmer plan will probably have similar net effects in freezing but truss AIUI is for 2 years and slightly better protects lower end users whilst punishing higher end a bit more.
    The key however is businesses - Davey and Starmers freeze does nothing for them, if Truss does then her plan is superior regardless of raising 4% of the cost via a windfall tax or not.
    No point us all staying warm and there being no businesses left to utilise and work for
    Edit - no business measures and Truss can do one on day one

    Horse Battery can make a fine socialist out of you yet, Woolie if you are selling us a socialist energy price freeze on PB 🤭

    I don’t dislike the element of trying some compulsion of everyone saving energy, but is it enough compulsion and no inherent vice?

    Labours policy would be the best value for money option for the nation, at shielding billpayers from the imminent 80% rise set for October, and another jump in January. The weakness of it though is the crisis will not be over by March 2023.

    My main attack on Truss leaked proposal, and that is all it is, she hasn’t nailed herself to anything, is the need for windfall tax to pay for some it, not just fairness signalling, but the political element of getting much needed buy in from the public.
    The problems with the windfall tax idea include, but are not limited to:

    (a) Not all "energy firms" have made massive profits. The energy suppliers - the firms that ordinary people actually deal with - really haven't;
    (b) Those firms that have made bigger profits than usual are in many cases just balancing out the losses they made during lockdown. Why should we tax the profits but not compensate the losses?
    (c) we need vast investment in energy generation to drive energy independence. Why would firms invest if the profits are taxed away?
    d) Explain by what mechanism we can tax the Qatari government and other non-UK based gas producers.
    Well we could impose import duties.... but I don't think that's what you have in mind. :smile:

    Taxing the profits, somewhat more problematic.
    And we're not even particularly competitive at selling them expensive weapons these days.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563

    Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    Another great decision.

    So far I am 100% on board with Truss’s announcements.
    He was bad - but Buckland would be worse...
  • Scott_xP said:

    Let the sackings commence. Liz Truss is in her Parliament office, removing current cabinet ministers before announcing her new front bench.

    She was in Downing Street a minute ago. I suppose there are no television cameras on the door to her Commons office.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,624

    nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Lol. That is one of the most amusing posts I have seen on here for a while. It does seem that listening to the views of the general populace too often damages one's faith in the principle of universal suffrage. Vox pops should come with a health warning.
    I’m glad you liked it ! It’s like broadcasters tend to put up a sign saying , single digit IQs welcome ! I need to stop watching them as they seriously wind me up !
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    He predicted this yesterday. Is he a sage?!
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    What is it with your obsession with charisma?

    This is about running the country not prime time entertainment.
    HY is/was always obsessed with GE performance and nothing else. As I have said before it is like employing someone that turns out to be shit and insisting on keeping them because they are good at interviews.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563

    Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    He predicted this yesterday. Is he a sage?!
    Add an onion, and he's been stuffed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Bulldozers and tractors have unfortunate connotations of late. Best avoided in metaphors to do with ground-breaking.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491

    Scott_xP said:

    Let the sackings commence. Liz Truss is in her Parliament office, removing current cabinet ministers before announcing her new front bench.

    There are no current cabinet ministers.
    And this is why
    Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    So the incoming PM simply does not reappoint people, rather than sacks them.

    But in reality it is not treated that way. Remember May and Osborne?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175

    She was in Downing Street a minute ago. I suppose there are no television cameras on the door to her Commons office.

    Traditionally the sackings happen in the Commons, and the appointments happen in Downing Street
  • Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    As a young person I will tell you of my priorities from PM Truss:

    CoL - energy bills
    Housing - we need to build lots of houses and bring prices down so we can get on the ladder
    Education - sort out tuition fees
    Transport - fix rising costs and terrible service

    I will judge PM Truss on those

    So with the 2 quid bus fare cap, if there is an extensive energy bills package this week you'll be thinking what a start!
    Yes bus cap is a good start but we need work on the railways too.
    Remember that railway users are richer on average than the population as a whole, so you need to be careful to avoid the poor subsidising the rich.
    Working population vs unemployed, pensioners and schoolkids and babies?
    First link on Google: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/articles-reports/2018/12/31/four-ten-brits-havent-set-foot-train-last-12-month

    More than four in ten (42%) of those who have made more than 50 train journeys in the last year live in a high income household (i.e. which we have classified as any household with a combined income of £40,000 or more). Just 10% live in a low income household – which we have classified as one where the combined income is less than £20,000 a year.

    By contrast, only 14% of those who never use the train are in higher income households, while 31% are in lower income households.
    Alternatively. Cities are prosperous and growing dense cities helps create more well-paid jobs. That may change if WFH takes off, but it's roughly true right now.

    You can't have car commuting into the centre of properly large prosperous cities, because roads and car parks take up lots of space and stop the people-to-people interactions that make cities work. Out-of-town business parks served by cars don't seem to work as well.

    So what do you want? To grow the cake(TM), or to hold on to a model that doesn't require explicit subsidy but puts a brake on economic growth?
  • Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Fracking lol. She wants spades in the ground to dig thousands of holes that will fart out nothing useful.

    But it will make a small band of Daily Mail readers happy that she's sticking it to the eco mob. Until their house starts jittering, that is.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175

    Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    He predicted this yesterday. Is he a sage?!
    Last week, Dominic Raab told Katy Balls that "those Jedi mind tricks don't work on me," dismissing rumours about his demise.

    This evening, he announced that he's leaving government .
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/those-jedi-mind-tricks-dont-work-on-me-dominic-raab-on-truss-sunak-and-his-own-future
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028
    edited September 2022

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    Dig to deliver.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    edited September 2022

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    No, it's incoherent even as a metaphor.
    Going with "Brexit is like having a baby" would have made more sense.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    Apparently North Korea used to be pretty developed and well off, compared to South Korea, which was news to me. And how devastating american bombing was to them in the Korean War.

    How North Korea become so insanely poor

    Basically, idiotic ideology, shocking.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    Nigelb said:

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    No, it's incoherent even as a metaphor.
    Going with "Brexit is like having a baby" would have made more sense.
    It all started with Labour?
  • Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    No he's not been. He may not have been reappointed but you can't be sacked from a position you don't have.

    The entire Cabinet fell with Boris. A new Cabinet is being formed. There are no sackings today.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Labour lead by 17% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (4 September):

    Labour 48% (+1)
    Conservative 31% (-3)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    Reform UK 7% (+2)
    Green 5% (+2)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (-1)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 21 August

    Reform very high in the red wall.
    Reform level with the LDs in the redwall now, in a Starmer v Truss snoozeville election, Nige may well fancy his chances to bring some populist charisma back into the contest. He could return as leader for the umpteenth time of UKIP/RefUK
    If you’re a Tory strategist then, together with the “Don’t knows who are really Tories” and swing back, I think you view that as all to play for. Especially if you are about to give voters a bung of cash AND pick a fight with the EU, whilst going round Eastern Europe in combat fatigues.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,743
    PJH said:

    Nigelb said:

    How are they going to select soundbites from that for the news ?
    Dreadful.

    Fingers crossed she can govern better than she speaks.

    As a non-Tory listening on the radio I thought she came across OK. I noticed a couple of odd pauses or emphases but no more than the average speaker.

    But the odd thing was that apart from the tax cuts bit, it sounded like what an incoming Labour PM might say.
    It was, being objective, a tricky gig for an absolute Boris loyalist. She had to say that not only was he a genius who got everything done but with hardly pausing for breath explain how that she was going to sort the fact that the entire country is shot to bits as a result of 12 years of Tory/Boris/Truss government.

    She could have said about her 3 big issues:
    Energy policy is an absolute fail due to 12 years of uselessness and lack of preparation.

    12 years of Tories has led to zero/low/minus growth.

    The NHS is a chaotic expensive disaster due to lack of planning and capacity issues, deliberately ignored by Tory governments.

    She could but didn't mention that 10 years would be optimistic for sorting much of it.

  • TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
    Any practical solutions for that on offer?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656

    A boring PM. A boring LOTO. Maybe we are on the beginnings of the road to recovery.

    Or the public like “fun” and we get Farage and co from nowhere….
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,918
    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,624

    nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Sorry but that thinking is just wrong and indeed largely accounts for brexit
    What’s my post got to do with Brexit ? I’m sure I’m not the only one who watches these vox pops and is greatly concerned for the UKs gene pool !
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 2,356
    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Speech wasn't too bad. She does better when she doesn't have to stop for audience applause. So similar to Theresa I get the feeling she doesn't really "do" people. Which is unfortunate as it's the people that are going to have to vote for her in the end...

    Truss doesn't "do" people = she has no charisma.
    TMay had some.
    Truss seems less personable than any PM since Gordon Brown.
    She is lucky that Keir Starmer has no charisma either and is less personable than any Labour leader since ... Gordon Brown.
    The next general election will be between the 2 dullest leaders of the main parties since at least Heath v Wilson but at least Wilson had some folksy charisma.

    Indeed you probably have to go back to the 1922 general election and Bonar Law as the new Conservative PM v Clynes as Leader of the Labour Party which overtook the Liberals as the main opposition to find Tory and Labour leaders so dull
    After the last few years, we need dull. We need boring. We need competent. We don’t need charisma.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    Why are these major things pooing everywhere
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    He predicted this yesterday. Is he a sage?!
    Last week, Dominic Raab told Katy Balls that "those Jedi mind tricks don't work on me," dismissing rumours about his demise.

    This evening, he announced that he's leaving government .
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/those-jedi-mind-tricks-dont-work-on-me-dominic-raab-on-truss-sunak-and-his-own-future
    Katy Balls does have Jedi mind powers ?
  • East London's turn to get a soaking!
  • nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Lol. That is one of the most amusing posts I have seen on here for a while. It does seem that listening to the views of the general populace too often damages one's faith in the principle of universal suffrage. Vox pops should come with a health warning.
    I’m glad you liked it ! It’s like broadcasters tend to put up a sign saying , single digit IQs welcome ! I need to stop watching them as they seriously wind me up !
    They could use a warning such as "interviewing of the terminally stupid took place during the making of this film. More sensitive viewers of a more nuanced political perspective are advised to turn away now"
  • Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    After rewatching it, I still think it was a mistake. It may be her script was badly formatted.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,914
    edited September 2022

    nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Sorry but that thinking is just wrong and indeed largely accounts for brexit
    People voted for Brexit to show they weren't stupid?

    Talk about a plan backfiring!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Let the sackings commence. Liz Truss is in her Parliament office, removing current cabinet ministers before announcing her new front bench.

    There are no current cabinet ministers.
    And this is why
    Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    So the incoming PM simply does not reappoint people, rather than sacks them.

    But in reality it is not treated that way. Remember May and Osborne?
    No, I think the new PM has to actively sack them. In theory ministers have all been appointed via the Queen and in role until they are not, I think, irrespective of PM (other than in GEs).

  • TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
    Any practical solutions for that on offer?
    I understand she is to address doctors concerns over their pensions to retain them in the workforce

    This would be an excellent move
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    Jonathan said:

    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.

    There's simply no way to connect the assertion the government has done a fantastic job under the amazing Boris (ignore the others) but also that we are all absolutely screwed without radical action. The attempt is made to suggest it is all down to Putin, but that's putting too much on him for all our problems.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563

    East London's turn to get a soaking!

    Just checked the forecast for tomorrow and it looks spectacular!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    edited September 2022
    kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Sorry but that thinking is just wrong and indeed largely accounts for brexit
    People voted for Brexit to show they weren't stupid?

    Talk about a plan backfiring!
    Big G couldn’t even get the plan right in the first place.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    Jonathan said:

    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.

    Yup, take the politics out of it and all governments have run out of steam after about 8/9 years. Two terms each then swap is best for the country.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,112
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.
  • Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    He predicted this yesterday. Is he a sage?!
    Last week, Dominic Raab told Katy Balls that "those Jedi mind tricks don't work on me," dismissing rumours about his demise.

    This evening, he announced that he's leaving government .
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/those-jedi-mind-tricks-dont-work-on-me-dominic-raab-on-truss-sunak-and-his-own-future
    Katy Balls does have Jedi mind powers ?
    No, but to Raab it must seem like everyone has Jedi mind powers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    edited September 2022
    BREAKING: Grant Shapps sacked at Transport and returns to backbenches https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1567195630149242880
  • Leon said:

    Why are these major things pooing everywhere

    We still talking about Therese Coffey?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 10,172
    edited September 2022
    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.

    There's simply no way to connect the assertion the government has done a fantastic job under the amazing Boris (ignore the others) but also that we are all absolutely screwed without radical action. The attempt is made to suggest it is all down to Putin, but that's putting too much on him for all our problems.
    It’s not the worst “war time” narrative though, to make the best of it and frame everything as part of a grand plan to stand up to Russia. Probably her best chance.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    Dig to deliver.
    Frack to the future
  • Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Grant Shapps sacked at Transport and returns to backbenches https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1567195630149242880

    Good
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 17,547
    edited September 2022
    kle4 said:

    Apparently North Korea used to be pretty developed and well off, compared to South Korea, which was news to me. And how devastating american bombing was to them in the Korean War.

    How North Korea become so insanely poor

    Basically, idiotic ideology, shocking.

    Ditto the North of England.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    Truss in commons doing sackings.. so far Raab, Barclay, and Shapps all out.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1567196654524047365
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    edited September 2022
    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Let the sackings commence. Liz Truss is in her Parliament office, removing current cabinet ministers before announcing her new front bench.

    There are no current cabinet ministers.
    And this is why
    Scott_xP said:

    Dominic Raab sacked as Deputy PM and Justice Secretary https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1567192575219572737

    So the incoming PM simply does not reappoint people, rather than sacks them.

    But in reality it is not treated that way. Remember May and Osborne?
    No, I think the new PM has to actively sack them. In theory ministers have all been appointed via the Queen and in role until they are not, I think, irrespective of PM (other than in GEs).
    The point being whether it is literally the case or not, in effect they are clearly being sacked by how they are treated, as the Osborne example shows. It's also why some resign first to avoid being 'sacked', irrespective of whether it is a technical sacking or not.

    So objecting to the term sacking is pointless - Truss is clearly sacking people whatever it is called, by not confirming them in place.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.
    LOL.
    I thought for a moment you'd come out in favour of jailing pupils for lack of respect.
  • kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Sorry but that thinking is just wrong and indeed largely accounts for brexit
    People voted for Brexit to show they weren't stupid?

    Talk about a plan backfiring!
    Big G couldn’t even get the plan right in the first place.
    I am too polite to respond to your personal carping but then you do not even live in our country
  • glwglw Posts: 8,869

    A boring PM. A boring LOTO. Maybe we are on the beginnings of the road to recovery.

    Cross your fingers for a boring US President too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Grant Shapps sacked at Transport and returns to backbenches https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1567195630149242880

    Good
    Let's hear who the replacements are before we celebrate.
    (cf Patel/Braverman.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,603
    Nigelb said:

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    No, it's incoherent even as a metaphor.
    Going with "Brexit is like having a baby" would have made more sense.
    Because you’ll be paying for it the rest of your life?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the gender identity debate, 'they' is a plural noun and totally unsuitable for referring to a person.

    Couldn't we come up with some vaguely acceptable compromise? E.g. 'shehe?' Or perhaps, to make it sound classier, borrow from Welsh and create 'fehi?'
  • Scott_xP said:

    Truss in commons doing sackings.. so far Raab, Barclay, and Shapps all out.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1567196654524047365

    Shapps is a clear error.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,175
    Massacre of the Rishi-ites? Dominic Raab, Grant Shapps, Steve Barclay all sacked from cabinet within an hour of Truss entering No10. Three of his most prominent front bench backers.
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1567197285490036751
  • Sky - the sackings of the Sunak supporters
  • kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Sorry but that thinking is just wrong and indeed largely accounts for brexit
    People voted for Brexit to show they weren't stupid?

    Talk about a plan backfiring!
    Big G couldn’t even get the plan right in the first place.
    I am too polite to respond to your personal carping but then you do not even live in our country
    You just did respond though.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    If Schapps is out, could we get a surprise Rishi supporter on her left wing to look more inclusive. Hunt?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Seen the Truss speech. 5/10. The agenda looks so tired. The 12 years really show.

    There's simply no way to connect the assertion the government has done a fantastic job under the amazing Boris (ignore the others) but also that we are all absolutely screwed without radical action. The attempt is made to suggest it is all down to Putin, but that's putting too much on him for all our problems.
    It’s not the worst “war time” narrative though, to make the best of it and frame everything as part of a grand plan to stand up to Russia. Probably her best chance.
    By the end Boris seemed to say the word Ukraine every other sentence. And the other sentence contained Zelensky.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    edited September 2022

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    Fair enough. Teachers should treat their pupils with respect and vice-versa.

    EDIT: Misread it, jailed!? Fired is what I misread it as, fired is appropriate, jailed is not.

    EDIT2: No, he was jailed for contempt of court, not for pronoun use. Contempt of court is of course jailable, should have read article first.
    He was jailed for contempt of court
    Edit - you saw it too. Ignore!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Grant Shapps sacked at Transport and returns to backbenches https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1567195630149242880

    That would be good news if it wasn't for the probability that she will find someone even worse to replace him.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042

    Scott_xP said:

    Truss in commons doing sackings.. so far Raab, Barclay, and Shapps all out.
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1567196654524047365

    Shapps is a clear error.

    You only just noticed ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,603
    ydoethur said:

    East London's turn to get a soaking!

    Just checked the forecast for tomorrow and it looks spectacular!
    Light showers, sunny intervals, moderate breeze says the BBC. Sounds normal for the end of summer? Here in the eastern US the heavens have opened.

  • TOPPING said:

    Code: the NHS is not fit for purpose.

    One of her top three priorities.

    Assuming she does something to keep energy bills affordable for most, which I don’t think she can avoid, if she can also do something to ensure voters can see their GP when they need to, without the stress of fighting the receptionist, she may get ordinary voters to re-elect her.
    Any practical solutions for that on offer?
    I understand she is to address doctors concerns over their pensions to retain them in the workforce

    This would be an excellent move
    Great. So the plan is to slightly attenuate the clear reduction in capacity that is coming down the line.

    So supply is not going to fall quite so much. How is the supply going to actually increase?

    It's not unlike energy policy. There will come a crunch but rather than prices we have waiting lists.

    Key difference however. Rather than us gradually moving to LED bulbs and what not over the last ten years, i.e. reducing demand like for like, we have people becoming fatter, getting COPD, type II diabetes etc.

    Turn your heating down/telly off.

    Turn you type II diabetes / COPD off. Doesn't quite work.

  • kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    I wish they’d stop doing vox pops.

    It tends to support my view that many are too stupid to vote and should be sterilized to stop their idiot genes from contaminating the country.

    Sorry but that thinking is just wrong and indeed largely accounts for brexit
    People voted for Brexit to show they weren't stupid?

    Talk about a plan backfiring!
    Big G couldn’t even get the plan right in the first place.
    I am too polite to respond to your personal carping but then you do not even live in our country
    You just did respond though.

    I responded politely
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,624
    Politics is weird . You get sacked and most of the time still stay loyal to that PM . You certainly need a thick skin to be a politician.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,028
    edited September 2022
    Driver said:

    @MoonRabbit from last thread
    Thats what im waiting to see. The Truss plan and Starmer plan will probably have similar net effects in freezing but truss AIUI is for 2 years and slightly better protects lower end users whilst punishing higher end a bit more.
    The key however is businesses - Davey and Starmers freeze does nothing for them, if Truss does then her plan is superior regardless of raising 4% of the cost via a windfall tax or not.
    No point us all staying warm and there being no businesses left to utilise and work for
    Edit - no business measures and Truss can do one on day one

    Horse Battery can make a fine socialist out of you yet, Woolie if you are selling us a socialist energy price freeze on PB 🤭

    I don’t dislike the element of trying some compulsion of everyone saving energy, but is it enough compulsion and no inherent vice?

    Labours policy would be the best value for money option for the nation, at shielding billpayers from the imminent 80% rise set for October, and another jump in January. The weakness of it though is the crisis will not be over by March 2023.

    My main attack on Truss leaked proposal, and that is all it is, she hasn’t nailed herself to anything, is the need for windfall tax to pay for some it, not just fairness signalling, but the political element of getting much needed buy in from the public.
    The problems with the windfall tax idea include, but are not limited to:

    (a) Not all "energy firms" have made massive profits. The energy suppliers - the firms that ordinary people actually deal with - really haven't;
    (b) Those firms that have made bigger profits than usual are in many cases just balancing out the losses they made during lockdown. Why should we tax the profits but not compensate the losses?
    Are you telling me, or telling Rishi and Boris? Are you telling Truss to give the money back, becuase it shouldn’t have been taken? are you entirely sure Truss won’t flip flop on that too, like the socialist energy price freeze she’s now bringing in, because you know I’ll be straight back to ask for your comment 🙂

    Alternately, St Bart PB Pirate, I’ve just read his anti Freeze (sic) post, is sticking to his guns, this labour policy Truss is being in is wrong - holding her nerve on letting energy markets work, while addressing hardship through targeted welfare support and tax cuts is the only honest path to match the radically free market rhetoric. That’s not you then Driver?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good speech and interesting that she referenced building and spades in the ground so much. Perhaps she's planning some genuine free market reforms on planning.

    Tbh I was wondering if the Prime Minister accidentally skipped a section there. It made no sense.
    The Prime Minister said, "We'll get spades in the ground to make sure people are not facing unaffordable energy bills."

    It makes no sense; she must have lost her place in the script and missed a sentence.
    Metaphor surely? No planning and talking, immediate action
    No, it's incoherent even as a metaphor.
    Going with "Brexit is like having a baby" would have made more sense.
    Because you’ll be paying for it the rest of your life?
    Brexit is very much like making love to a beautiful woman…

  • Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/06/teacher-jailed-row-use-pronouns-transgender-pupil/

    A teacher in Ireland has been jailed for refusing to use the pronoun 'they' to refer to a pupil who identified as neither male nor female.

    No he hasn't based on that story.

    He was jailed for breaching an injunction (indeed point-blank refusing to comply with an injunction) requiring him to stay away from the school during disciplinary proceedings.

    Whether or not the disciplinary proceedings lead to his dismissal (HIS description of them suggests they are harsh, but I suspect there is much more to them than he's saying) you don't ignore a court injunction.
This discussion has been closed.