It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
Wiki lists AG as not being full Cabinet, so I think the list is complete. Average age up to 48.
Mordaunt one of the earliest to first get into the Cabinet, which shows how her career has since stalled.
Truss is the only one with any extended experience (if you count Chief Secretary as Cabinet, as sometimes it is, she's had 8 years at the top) - nearly half have either never been in the Cabinet before, or have only been in it since earlier this year (some did attend Cabinet previously though). No others have even close to her.
Chris Philp is Chief Secretary to the Treasury and Michael Ellis QC is Attorney General and so and we have Truss' full Cabinet
Doesn't seem like a cabinet that's going to win the Red Wall somehow
Depends. Truss could do something really stupid like capping all energy bills at pre-crisis levels, accepting that it will lead to a massive increase in borrowing but will make it seem like she has solved the problem for the next couple of winters. People might be daft enough to look upon that as strong action that saves them from disaster without worrying about the long term consequences and that might see her through the next election.
I hope I am wrong but I don't think it is impossible. Some creative maths saying this will be paid back by a future energy levy to kick in when real prices are back down to more normal levels and will be over such a long period that they will claim people won't notice.
I hope no one on the new Truss team reads PB and thinks this is a good idea. It isn't.
Its all both smoke and mirrors and required action to avoid catastrophe. Shes going to go hard and huge and extend it till the next GE so she can try and claim 'week one and the biggest problem is under control' and ride a bounce into populist Tory delighting stuff and the right media will push the 'just like Maggie she was underestimated' line Of course just like Gordon 'saved the world innit' Brown and co's interventions and profligacy, the cost will require extreme action on tax or austerity in 2025. However, it remains necessary to solve the issue at hand, the rest is just the pantomime costumes around it. I merely hope the long term energy provision and needs are attended to.
Doesn't seem like a cabinet that's going to win the Red Wall somehow
At a glance, and I can't be bothered to do the analysis, it does look as if virtually all the Cabinet are southern MPs. Simon Clarke and Jake Berry aren't, and there may be others - but even if so, midlands/northern representation looks a bit weak.
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
Never said Boris was to the right - twas Brexit for me - Could Thursday's by-elections be an early indication of the initial success or failure of LT?
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
Indeed. No mandate, already unpopular, perhaps ruinously so by Christmas, yet we're still probably going to have to endure it for the next two years.
I think the issue will be dealing with backbench MPs.
Still waiting for appointments to Scotland and Wales, but so far the average age of the Cabinet is 47.5. Liz Truss being 47.
Only 2 were in parliament prior to 2010 (one from 2009 - yet is one of the youngest there, Chloe Smith at 40).
Historically young? Who knows. It's not very old, but there are plenty of 50+, but in terms of years of experience at Cabinet level it has to be unusually low for a 12 year government.
This is why talk of "twelve years of this Government" is false, the Government has rejuvenated over time. The composition of this Cabinet bears next to zero resemblance with Cameron's . . . is the PM the only survivor from Cameron's day herself?
This government was elected on the basis of the 2019 manifesto.
Leaving the ECHR was not in that manifesto and the Lords would be perfectly entitled to block such a measure.
The manifesto also contained this promise - "We will continue to grant asylum and support to refugees fleeing persecution, with the ultimate aim of helping them to return home if it is safe to do so."
Page 39 on workers rights: not just preserving existing rights but enhancing them is worth reading too.
If Truss wants to tear up the 2019 manifesto and govern according to a new one, she should call a GE. If not, she can do what the government which was elected promised to do in that manifesto.
Meet the new set of chancers. Not wildly different from the old set of chancers.
I think I've had it with politics really.
There has been an interesting recent case on whistleblowing in the Care Quality Commission. The NHS has quite an issue with whistleblowing and to see the same problems in the CQC is quite demoralising.
I may write about this for my work blog, whistleblowing being my specialism these days.
Some years ago I was put up to speak for a department that was failing very badly, when the CQC called. Obviously management were a bit worried, so I was well briefed, and had a file full of stuff to explain our excuses and mitigations. They knew I would be honest, and wanted me to be honest as we already were fixing stuff.
The 2 inspectors were a junior nurse and a junior doctor and hadn't spotted any of the issues, instead asked me about a lot of irrelevant trivia about protocols for this and that. I answered to their satisfaction and they went away without noticing the dead suppurating elephant in the room and wrote a positive write up
Not only am I older than the PM, I'm older than the entire cabinet.
Time to put me out to pasture.
Oh, and Chloe Smith. In cabinet. What the actual feck? Good job I didn't have a mouthful of tea when I heard that announced.
Does she have some sort of reputation? I confess I'd never heard of her, whereas everyone else the names at least sounded familiar.
She briefly became famous amongst political obsessives when she had a total dire interview on Newsnight. She was shunted out of the limelight for several years.
Seems intelligent and competent to me from a distance. Quite pleased she has taken DWP and not bloody IDS yet again.
Freezing of bills was expensive enough . But Truss has promised the NI cut aswell as an income tax cut . The combination of all those in terms of costs is going to put huge pressure on the pound . And that will feed into inflation.
Still waiting for appointments to Scotland and Wales, but so far the average age of the Cabinet is 47.5. Liz Truss being 47.
Only 2 were in parliament prior to 2010 (one from 2009 - yet is one of the youngest there, Chloe Smith at 40).
Historically young? Who knows. It's not very old, but there are plenty of 50+, but in terms of years of experience at Cabinet level it has to be unusually low for a 12 year government.
This is why talk of "twelve years of this Government" is false, the Government has rejuvenated over time. The composition of this Cabinet bears next to zero resemblance with Cameron's . . . is the PM the only survivor from Cameron's day herself?
Yes.
It is a rather remarkable bit of refreshing, but having pulled that trick once they may find it harder to sell it this time.
And it's a helluva refresh. Looking down that list, how many of the names here were major players in the 2019 campaign?
Truss was at Trade, Coffey was Work+Pensions, Jack was Scotland, Cleverly was party chair. I think that's it in terms of full Cabinet minsiters.
Them's the rules, but there does seem to be a bit of a unlocked backdoor in the system here.
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
This forum is not representative of tory voters - how many Labour supporters on here voted leave?
Sebastian Payne @SebastianEPayne · 10s . @TomTugendhat enters government for the first time as security minister at the Home Office. He will also attend cabinet.
Not only am I older than the PM, I'm older than the entire cabinet.
Time to put me out to pasture.
Oh, and Chloe Smith. In cabinet. What the actual feck? Good job I didn't have a mouthful of tea when I heard that announced.
Does she have some sort of reputation? I confess I'd never heard of her, whereas everyone else the names at least sounded familiar.
She briefly became famous amongst political obsessives when she had a total dire interview on Newsnight. She was shunted out of the limelight for several years.
Seems intelligent and competent to me from a distance. Quite pleased she has taken DWP and not bloody IDS yet again.
Shes been quietly working as a junior minister right through the May to Boz to Liz transition and had a brief fight with breast cancer a couple years ago which is now in remission after chemo
OT. Plans have been submitted to Lincs County Council to put three solar farms in North Lincolnshire covering 10,000 acres of farmland. It does seem a hell of a lot of farmland to take out of production.
Still waiting for appointments to Scotland and Wales, but so far the average age of the Cabinet is 47.5. Liz Truss being 47.
Only 2 were in parliament prior to 2010 (one from 2009 - yet is one of the youngest there, Chloe Smith at 40).
Historically young? Who knows. It's not very old, but there are plenty of 50+, but in terms of years of experience at Cabinet level it has to be unusually low for a 12 year government.
This is why talk of "twelve years of this Government" is false, the Government has rejuvenated over time. The composition of this Cabinet bears next to zero resemblance with Cameron's . . . is the PM the only survivor from Cameron's day herself?
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
This forum is not representative of tory voters - how many Labour supporters on here voted leave?
This forum is definitely not representative of Tory voters, but for the Tories to win they need much, much more than just die-hard Tory loyalists.
Doesn't seem like a cabinet that's going to win the Red Wall somehow
At a glance, and I can't be bothered to do the analysis, it does look as if virtually all the Cabinet are southern MPs. Simon Clarke and Jake Berry aren't, and there may be others - but even if so, midlands/northern representation looks a bit weak.
Scotland - 1 Wales - 0 London - 0 Northern Ireland - 0 East Midlands - 1 West Midlands - 1 North East - 2 North West - 2 South West - 3 South East - 6 East - 6
Attending Cabinet
London - 1 W. Midlands - 2 E. Midlands - 1 East - 1
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
OT. Plans have been submitted to Lincs County Council to put three solar farms in North Lincolnshire covering 10,000 acres of farmland. It does seem a hell of a lot of farmland to take out of production.
Farmland being screwed with is a growing problem worldwide. See Netherlands etc, or Gates buying it all up in the States. Or the Sri Lanka disaster
Sebastian Payne @SebastianEPayne · 10s . @TomTugendhat enters government for the first time as security minister at the Home Office. He will also attend cabinet.
Apart from JRM I am pleased with her cabinet and it must be the most diverse ever to be appointed
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
Well yes absolutely. As long as he has the support of the MPs. They are the people we elect top represent us.
Personally I would like to see a lot more use of referendums as they do in Switzerland but I know that idea is not popular on here.
Doesn't seem like a cabinet that's going to win the Red Wall somehow
At a glance, and I can't be bothered to do the analysis, it does look as if virtually all the Cabinet are southern MPs. Simon Clarke and Jake Berry aren't, and there may be others - but even if so, midlands/northern representation looks a bit weak.
Scotland - 1 Wales - 0 London - 0 Northern Ireland - 0 East Midlands - 1 West Midlands - 1 North East - 2 North West - 2 South West - 3 South East - 6 East - 6
Attending Cabinet
London - 1 W. Midlands - 2 E. Midlands - 1 East - 1
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
This government was elected on the basis of the 2019 manifesto.
Leaving the ECHR was not in that manifesto and the Lords would be perfectly entitled to block such a measure.
The manifesto also contained this promise - "We will continue to grant asylum and support to refugees fleeing persecution, with the ultimate aim of helping them to return home if it is safe to do so."
Page 39 on workers rights: not just preserving existing rights but enhancing them is worth reading too.
If Truss wants to tear up the 2019 manifesto and govern according to a new one, she should call a GE. If not, she can do what the government which was elected promised to do in that manifesto.
Meet the new set of chancers. Not wildly different from the old set of chancers.
I think I've had it with politics really.
There has been an interesting recent case on whistleblowing in the Care Quality Commission. The NHS has quite an issue with whistleblowing and to see the same problems in the CQC is quite demoralising.
I may write about this for my work blog, whistleblowing being my specialism these days.
Some years ago I was put up to speak for a department that was failing very badly, when the CQC called. Obviously management were a bit worried, so I was well briefed, and had a file full of stuff to explain our excuses and mitigations. They knew I would be honest, and wanted me to be honest as we already were fixing stuff.
The 2 inspectors were a junior nurse and a junior doctor and hadn't spotted any of the issues, instead asked me about a lot of irrelevant trivia about protocols for this and that. I answered to their satisfaction and they went away without noticing the dead suppurating elephant in the room and wrote a positive write up
I haven't had much faith in them since.
My brother is senior NHS management and he says similar. Aggressively fixating on small points and lacking empathy and technical understanding.
Sebastian Payne @SebastianEPayne · 10s . @TomTugendhat enters government for the first time as security minister at the Home Office. He will also attend cabinet.
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
This forum is not representative of tory voters - how many Labour supporters on here voted leave?
This forum is definitely not representative of Tory voters, but for the Tories to win they need much, much more than just die-hard Tory loyalists.
exactly - former Labour voters like myself who voted for Boris you need to keep - it's the how bit that's the Tory's problem
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
This forum is not representative of tory voters - how many Labour supporters on here voted leave?
Me and BJO. If you still class him as a Labour supporter.
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
I'm trying to have an intelligent non-partisan discussion here.
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
This forum is not representative of tory voters - how many Labour supporters on here voted leave?
Me and BJO. If you still class him as a Labour supporter.
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
A lesson for the Tory 2019 vote to ponder perhaps.
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
I'm trying to have an intelligent non-partisan discussion here.
It is an intelligent non-partisan discussion.
If Labour get a majority they get to choose how to govern, that's democracy. If Labour get a majority and turn Corbynite, then them's the breaks.
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
A lesson for the Tory 2019 vote to ponder perhaps.
Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You can vote Cameron and get ultimately Boris, you can vote Blair and get Brown.
This government was elected on the basis of the 2019 manifesto.
Leaving the ECHR was not in that manifesto and the Lords would be perfectly entitled to block such a measure.
The manifesto also contained this promise - "We will continue to grant asylum and support to refugees fleeing persecution, with the ultimate aim of helping them to return home if it is safe to do so."
Page 39 on workers rights: not just preserving existing rights but enhancing them is worth reading too.
If Truss wants to tear up the 2019 manifesto and govern according to a new one, she should call a GE. If not, she can do what the government which was elected promised to do in that manifesto.
Meet the new set of chancers. Not wildly different from the old set of chancers.
I think I've had it with politics really.
There has been an interesting recent case on whistleblowing in the Care Quality Commission. The NHS has quite an issue with whistleblowing and to see the same problems in the CQC is quite demoralising.
I may write about this for my work blog, whistleblowing being my specialism these days.
Some years ago I was put up to speak for a department that was failing very badly, when the CQC called. Obviously management were a bit worried, so I was well briefed, and had a file full of stuff to explain our excuses and mitigations. They knew I would be honest, and wanted me to be honest as we already were fixing stuff.
The 2 inspectors were a junior nurse and a junior doctor and hadn't spotted any of the issues, instead asked me about a lot of irrelevant trivia about protocols for this and that. I answered to their satisfaction and they went away without noticing the dead suppurating elephant in the room and wrote a positive write up
I haven't had much faith in them since.
Thanks.
Sorry.
It is a true story. Our SMT had changed and so the problems were already being tackled, though there was a promotion for the person with management responsibility for the car crash department.
A CQC team needs experienced clinicians to do a decent job, not teenage scribblers building careers as inspectors, with no clinical experience themselves.
I think that is the gist of the current CQC whistleblowing scandal.
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
Energy price cap. Bus fare cap. We've got a Corbynite government!
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
Well yes absolutely. As long as he has the support of the MPs. They are the people we elect top represent us.
Personally I would like to see a lot more use of referendums as they do in Switzerland but I know that idea is not popular on here.
Oh god no, not that "direct democracy" thing. Prefer this way to that. Maybe take a dash of your "more independents" idea and inject some of that into it.
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
This forum is not representative of tory voters - how many Labour supporters on here voted leave?
Me and BJO. If you still class him as a Labour supporter.
I in 3 Labour voters voted Leave
But a much smaller proportion of party members. I would often be a lone voice in branch meetings.
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
A lesson for the Tory 2019 vote to ponder perhaps.
Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You can vote Cameron and get ultimately Boris, you can vote Blair and get Brown.
I meant vote Boris get the IEA. The equivalent is vote Blair get Corbyn.
Sebastian Payne @SebastianEPayne · 10s . @TomTugendhat enters government for the first time as security minister at the Home Office. He will also attend cabinet.
Apart from JRM I am pleased with her cabinet and it must be the most diverse ever to be appointed
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
This forum is not representative of tory voters - how many Labour supporters on here voted leave?
This forum is definitely not representative of Tory voters, but for the Tories to win they need much, much more than just die-hard Tory loyalists.
exactly - former Labour voters like myself who voted for Boris you need to keep - it's the how bit that's the Tory's problem
Sort of. See 2015. Kill off the LibDem challenge in the south and on the new boundaries they don’t need much Red Wall for a working majority.
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
A lesson for the Tory 2019 vote to ponder perhaps.
Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You can vote Cameron and get ultimately Boris, you can vote Blair and get Brown.
I meant vote Boris get the IEA. The equivalent is vote Blair get Corbyn.
That's Parliamentary democracy. We don't elect a President.
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
A lesson for the Tory 2019 vote to ponder perhaps.
Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You can vote Cameron and get ultimately Boris, you can vote Blair and get Brown.
I meant vote Boris get the IEA. The equivalent is vote Blair get Corbyn.
Boris was not IEA, of course. But they were a core part of his coalition.
This is an IEA coup. Redwallers and Osbornites crushed under heel.
There is a theory amongst Leicester City fans that Brendan Rodgers is deliberately sabotaging the club by bizarre team selection, inept substitutions, freezing out the competent, and slagging off the team, owners and fans.
I can't help but wonder if Truss is doing the same.
Rodgers gets a massive payoff if sacked, but what is in it for Truss? To destroy big government and the welfare state irrevocably?
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
This forum is not representative of tory voters - how many Labour supporters on here voted leave?
Me and BJO. If you still class him as a Labour supporter.
I in 3 Labour voters voted Leave
But a much smaller proportion of party members. I would often be a lone voice in branch meetings.
Last time, as I'm going to bed, with regions added. Errors blamed on wikipedia.
Simon Clarke was in Cabinet as Chief Treasury
The page on that seems a little iffy - sometimes the Chief Secretary is a full Cabinet Member, sometimes they simply 'attend Cabinet' - the page on the Johnson ministry and ministerial rankings had Clarke not as a full Cabinet Minister.
Technically on same basis I should put Braverman as 2022, since AG also doesn't count on that basis.
Edit
The internet wayback machine concurs from the official government page
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
A lesson for the Tory 2019 vote to ponder perhaps.
Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You can vote Cameron and get ultimately Boris, you can vote Blair and get Brown.
I meant vote Boris get the IEA. The equivalent is vote Blair get Corbyn.
That's Parliamentary democracy. We don't elect a President.
Though even a President can be replaced by a VP who is ideologically not the same if they resign or die in office, even if they are in the same party
There is a theory amongst Leicester City fans that Brendan Rodgers is deliberately sabotaging the club by bizarre team selection, inept substitutions, freezing out the competent, and slagging off the team, owners and fans.
I can't help but wonder if Truss is doing the same.
Rodgers gets a massive payoff if sacked, but what is in it for Truss? To destroy big government and the welfare state irrevocably?
Nah, to destroy the Tory Party before she gets that far. Finally she does her LibDem masters’ bidding and can return home, mission complete, to tea and medals.
There is a theory amongst Leicester City fans that Brendan Rodgers is deliberately sabotaging the club by bizarre team selection, inept substitutions, freezing out the competent, and slagging off the team, owners and fans.
I can't help but wonder if Truss is doing the same.
Rodgers gets a massive payoff if sacked, but what is in it for Truss? To destroy big government and the welfare state irrevocably?
If she loses the next general election and badly we could have years of big government from Labour. She is moving to a small state government which is not really what Boris got elected to do which was mainly to get Brexit done, level up and beat Corbyn.
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
This forum is not representative of tory voters - how many Labour supporters on here voted leave?
This forum is definitely not representative of Tory voters, but for the Tories to win they need much, much more than just die-hard Tory loyalists.
exactly - former Labour voters like myself who voted for Boris you need to keep - it's the how bit that's the Tory's problem
Sort of. See 2015. Kill off the LibDem challenge in the south and on the new boundaries they don’t need much Red Wall for a working majority.
mmmm - hadn't thought of that - my vote and others similar to my view might not be as important as I think they will be
Lol at Big G welcoming these appointments. He must be the owner of some fine bridges.
If I have to be generous, I’d say that downright comedy appointments are restricted to Rees-Mogg, Braverman and Cleverly.
Mordaunt’s political talents are wasted, so too by the looks of it are Kemi’s.
It will be interesting to see how Kwasi and Coffey perform. Kwasi was a dud in BEIS, but perhaps he was stifled trying to make sense of Johnson-ism. Coffey seemed quietly competent in Work and Pensions. Health is a much bigger challenge.
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
A lesson for the Tory 2019 vote to ponder perhaps.
Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You can vote Cameron and get ultimately Boris, you can vote Blair and get Brown.
I meant vote Boris get the IEA. The equivalent is vote Blair get Corbyn.
That's Parliamentary democracy. We don't elect a President.
Indeed. But I don't think this is the administration the country wanted. You may differ. It's 1993 again.
There is a theory amongst Leicester City fans that Brendan Rodgers is deliberately sabotaging the club by bizarre team selection, inept substitutions, freezing out the competent, and slagging off the team, owners and fans.
I can't help but wonder if Truss is doing the same.
Rodgers gets a massive payoff if sacked, but what is in it for Truss? To destroy big government and the welfare state irrevocably?
It's not the vote of the majority of PB posters that LT is after but voters like me - Boris fans - so further to the right she goes the better as far as I'm concerned - first impressions are good but will wait for more details especially with regard to illegal immigration
Well she needs to learn how to count. There's a dozen 2019 and previous Tories here who have said they wouldn't vote for Boris again, vs Boris fans you and HYUFD. HYUFD is sui generis and you seem confused if you think Boris was far right, so she'd do better trying to win the dozen back.
This forum is not representative of tory voters - how many Labour supporters on here voted leave?
Me and BJO. If you still class him as a Labour supporter.
I in 3 Labour voters voted Leave
But a much smaller proportion of party members. I would often be a lone voice in branch meetings.
Well watching the Truss coverage and the punditry I do get the impression of an almost completely new government staking out a pretty stupid and possibly ruinous new direction.
Yet with no general election, little support amongst MPs, no mandate at all really other than from the tiny demographic of members of the Conservative Party, and not even there since they'd still prefer Boris Johnson.
Feels wrong. Doesn't feel like a democracy in working order.
If Parliament passes the laws and budgets the Government proposes then it is absolutely democracy as it has run for the last couple of centuries. I may not like Truss (I really don't) but that is the system.
Actually I do think we should return to an earlier Parliamentary system that existed prior to 1926 when an MP who was not already a minister had to stand for re-election if appointed to Government outside of the immediate aftermath of a GE. .
It's within the rules, yes, but that doesn't mean it can't feel lacking in democratic terms. Us in the EU was in the rules too, but still there was much talk of a "democratic deficit" wasn't there?
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
If you don't want a Corbynite government, don't vote Labour.
A lesson for the Tory 2019 vote to ponder perhaps.
Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You can vote Cameron and get ultimately Boris, you can vote Blair and get Brown.
I meant vote Boris get the IEA. The equivalent is vote Blair get Corbyn.
That's Parliamentary democracy. We don't elect a President.
Indeed. But I don't think this is the administration the country wanted. You may differ. It's 1993 again.
Comments
Time to put me out to pasture.
Oh, and Chloe Smith. In cabinet. What the actual feck?
Good job I didn't have a mouthful of tea when I heard that announced.
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1567268075459809282?s=20&t=duPelsRvggRVsap3wFa_5A
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1567268964543205378?s=20&t=3EO6T6ZQyvk8dTEsubS6ew
Shes going to go hard and huge and extend it till the next GE so she can try and claim 'week one and the biggest problem is under control' and ride a bounce into populist Tory delighting stuff and the right media will push the 'just like Maggie she was underestimated' line
Of course just like Gordon 'saved the world innit' Brown and co's interventions and profligacy, the cost will require extreme action on tax or austerity in 2025.
However, it remains necessary to solve the issue at hand, the rest is just the pantomime costumes around it. I merely hope the long term energy provision and needs are attended to.
Seems intelligent and competent to me from a distance. Quite pleased she has taken DWP and not bloody IDS yet again.
I spoke to President @ZelenskyyUa this evening and reiterated our steadfast support for Ukraine’s freedom and democracy.
Russia's attempts to weaponise energy must not deter the West.
Ukraine can depend on the UK for support in the long term. 🇬🇧🇺🇦
https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1567268354209058828
Truss was at Trade, Coffey was Work+Pensions, Jack was Scotland, Cleverly was party chair. I think that's it in terms of full Cabinet minsiters.
Them's the rules, but there does seem to be a bit of a unlocked backdoor in the system here.
How many Mordaunt supporters?
How do you magick them up?
My lost youth is returned.
And tomorrow I get to wind up some BEIS civil servants about their new boss. I wonder how many will WFH?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/06/british-mps-and-a-prime-minister-congratulate-the-wrong-liz-truss-on-twitter
Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
·
10s
.
@TomTugendhat
enters government for the first time as security minister at the Home Office. He will also attend cabinet.
Just 6 years, and all those careers ended.
Wales - 0
London - 0
Northern Ireland - 0
East Midlands - 1
West Midlands - 1
North East - 2
North West - 2
South West - 3
South East - 6
East - 6
Attending Cabinet
London - 1
W. Midlands - 2
E. Midlands - 1
East - 1
Or a different example. Starmer wins in 24 on a moderate ticket then implements Corbyn's 2019 manifesto. Within the rules. Not outside the system. But democratic? Hmm.
#Chloe4Leader
After Truss loses in 2024.
Personally I would like to see a lot more use of referendums as they do in Switzerland but I know that idea is not popular on here.
Interesting.
Edit - although shes cracking on tonight it seems!
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1567273256289189888?s=20&t=HVD7KeqcruwDMbKsC1w1ag
If Labour get a majority they get to choose how to govern, that's democracy. If Labour get a majority and turn Corbynite, then them's the breaks.
Does that live in Defence, Home or Foreign?
It is a true story. Our SMT had changed and so the problems were already being tackled, though there was a promotion for the person with management responsibility for the car crash department.
A CQC team needs experienced clinicians to do a decent job, not teenage scribblers building careers as inspectors, with no clinical experience themselves.
I think that is the gist of the current CQC whistleblowing scandal.
BBC News - NHS whistleblower Shyam Kumar wins case against regulator
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62764409
No idea what she is thinking.
The equivalent is vote Blair get Corbyn.
So Tugendhat reports into Braverman!
But they were a core part of his coalition.
This is an IEA coup.
Redwallers and Osbornites crushed under heel.
I can't help but wonder if Truss is doing the same.
Rodgers gets a massive payoff if sacked, but what is in it for Truss? To destroy big government and the welfare state irrevocably?
If we're unlucky, this is all for real.
Is there any evidence that Truss does jokes? Remember that she's fundamentally a maths student, and maths jokes don't get better than
Why is six afraid of seven?
Because seven eight nine.
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1567273838488035330?s=20&t=Muok5AShYxQiyFioGCIpIQ
Technically on same basis I should put Braverman as 2022, since AG also doesn't count on that basis.
Edit
The internet wayback machine concurs from the official government page
My six year old doesn't 100% get it and repeats the joke saying "ten eleven twelve" in response.
https://members.parliament.uk/Government/Cabinet
He must be the owner of some fine bridges.
If I have to be generous, I’d say that downright comedy appointments are restricted to Rees-Mogg, Braverman and Cleverly.
Mordaunt’s political talents are wasted, so too by the looks of it are Kemi’s.
It will be interesting to see how Kwasi and Coffey perform. Kwasi was a dud in BEIS, but perhaps he was stifled trying to make sense of Johnson-ism. Coffey seemed quietly competent in Work and Pensions. Health is a much bigger challenge.
But I don't think this is the administration the country wanted.
You may differ.
It's 1993 again.
But Redwood won.