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Some worrying findings for the Tories from Opinium – politicalbetting.com

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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,249
    Kherson news blackout continues. In the void are Russians on telegram talking about the destruction of the Ukrainian offensive force. Meanwhile noises the other way that Russian forces are now trying swim across the Dnipro to escape the onslaught. 500 re-supply trucks per day might be needed to re supply the Russian force and perhaps only 50 making it across via ferry / pontoon. You’d have thought within another week the direction of this battle will be known, and it might well be the pivotal one of this war.
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    Nigelb said:

    Thread by reporter in Pakistan, on the situation 5 days post flood.
    It looks utterly desperate.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/az_journalist/status/1566165791224975360

    British support for Pakistan of up to £15 million was announced by Liz Truss as Foreign Secretary a couple of days back.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-steps-up-support-for-pakistans-flood-response
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    The polling for Truss is mind-blowing. They appear to be electing a leader not supported by most MPs and badly regarded by most Tory voters.

    Have to hand it to the Tories. They couldn't have fucked this up harder if they had tried.

    Let's see what the Truss energy price bail-out looks like before we write her off completely. However, it is hard to have much confidence in any Prime Minister who puts Jacob Rees Mogg in charge of it. Having him on TV day after day explaining it all really doesn't look like a recipe for Tory success.

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,860

    The polling for Truss is mind-blowing. They appear to be electing a leader not supported by most MPs and badly regarded by most Tory voters.

    Have to hand it to the Tories. They couldn't have fucked this up harder if they had tried.

    Let's see what the Truss energy price bail-out looks like before we write her off completely. However, it is hard to have much confidence in any Prime Minister who puts Jacob Rees Mogg in charge of it. Having him on TV day after day explaining it all really doesn't look like a recipe for Tory success.

    One issue will rather be him on TV day after day totally failing to explain it.
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    ydoethur said:

    The polling for Truss is mind-blowing. They appear to be electing a leader not supported by most MPs and badly regarded by most Tory voters.

    Have to hand it to the Tories. They couldn't have fucked this up harder if they had tried.

    Oh come on, that's not true.

    They could have elected Suella Braverman.
    Don't say that.

    You'll given them ideas.

    Seriously - when the Truss era goes pearshaped, there's at least one more utterly bonkers Conservative leader to come before they are ready to consider playing nicely again .

    Probably Badenoch, but Braverman will do.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,135
    I also saw Richard III at the RSC in Stratford yesterday 😊
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 924

    The polling for Truss is mind-blowing. They appear to be electing a leader not supported by most MPs and badly regarded by most Tory voters.

    Have to hand it to the Tories. They couldn't have fucked this up harder if they had tried.

    The next by-election will be interesting. The performance of the Conservatives at three recent ones that I have helped for the Lib Dems at has been appalling - starting with poor (or worse) candidate selection. Boris was the main issue but a continuity Boris wont help and failure to cut energy costs for businesses of all sizes and all homes including larger than average homes will be a disaster for them.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,230
    moonshine said:

    Kherson news blackout continues. In the void are Russians on telegram talking about the destruction of the Ukrainian offensive force. Meanwhile noises the other way that Russian forces are now trying swim across the Dnipro to escape the onslaught. 500 re-supply trucks per day might be needed to re supply the Russian force and perhaps only 50 making it across via ferry / pontoon. You’d have thought within another week the direction of this battle will be known, and it might well be the pivotal one of this war.

    The little information that is coming through, suggests a reasonable Ukranian pushback against the enemy in the past few days. The reality on the ground is likely better than that, the news blackout appears designed to keep information from the enemy commanders, with an estimated 20k troops stranded with only the river as a supply line. The defenders are hoping that they abandon, rather than destroy, their equipment as they retreat.


    Source: https://liveuamap.com/
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    The polling for Truss is mind-blowing. They appear to be electing a leader not supported by most MPs and badly regarded by most Tory voters.

    Have to hand it to the Tories. They couldn't have fucked this up harder if they had tried.

    A positive spin is that they're going through the stage of having a leader to please the extreme wing of the party even before they're in opposition, so they have a chance to do some ideological things before they are kicked out, which will keep Labour busy in their first years in government, and it means they will be psychologically prepared to compromise with the electorate as soon as they are in opposition.

    Whereas Labour waited until five years in to opposition to go to the comfort of their extremes, messing up the timing so they spent longer out of government.
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    Delta poll in today's Sun on Sunday:
    Labour 42
    Tories 31

    Best PM …
    Starmer 34
    Johnson 23
    Truss 11

    Truss 11

    This popcorn stockpile was a wise investment.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458

    ydoethur said:

    The polling for Truss is mind-blowing. They appear to be electing a leader not supported by most MPs and badly regarded by most Tory voters.

    Have to hand it to the Tories. They couldn't have fucked this up harder if they had tried.

    Oh come on, that's not true.

    They could have elected Suella Braverman.
    Don't say that.

    You'll given them ideas.

    Seriously - when the Truss era goes pearshaped, there's at least one more utterly bonkers Conservative leader to come before they are ready to consider playing nicely again .

    Probably Badenoch, but Braverman will do.
    Or 3, it took the Tories to get through Hague, IDS and Howard before they got to Cameron. Labour went through Brown, Ed Miliband and Corbyn after Blair before Starmer and Foot and Kinnock after Wilson and Callaghan.

    Though of course Thatcher was considered unelectable when she became Tory leader in 1975 but won after the high inflation and strikes under the 1974 to 1979 Labour government
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 924

    Delta poll in today's Sun on Sunday:
    Labour 42
    Tories 31

    Best PM …
    Starmer 34
    Johnson 23
    Truss 11

    Truss 11

    This popcorn stockpile was a wise investment.
    Expectation management? If Truss manages to produce half a policy on energy the Daily Mail, for one, will hail her as the Messiah.
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    Icarus said:

    Delta poll in today's Sun on Sunday:
    Labour 42
    Tories 31

    Best PM …
    Starmer 34
    Johnson 23
    Truss 11

    Truss 11

    This popcorn stockpile was a wise investment.
    Expectation management? If Truss manages to produce half a policy on energy the Daily Mail, for one, will hail her as the Messiah.
    For 5 minutes. Until the people wielding the calculators point out that her plan does very little to mitigate the disaster. Even the Daily Dacre can't ignore the realities of the bill disaster as it collapses on top of their reader's heads.
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    No Tory poll leads for nigh on NINE MONTHS!

    Let Liz spray some cash about and give her her honeymoon period, that lead is likely to be wiped out or reversed. Anyone who isn’t Boris will get a poll bounce
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    No Tory poll leads for nigh on NINE MONTHS!

    Let Liz spray some cash about and give her her honeymoon period, that lead is likely to be wiped out or reversed. Anyone who isn’t Boris will get a poll bounce
    A swingback fan? Rare on the ground these days.
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    Icarus said:

    Delta poll in today's Sun on Sunday:
    Labour 42
    Tories 31

    Best PM …
    Starmer 34
    Johnson 23
    Truss 11

    Truss 11

    This popcorn stockpile was a wise investment.
    Expectation management? If Truss manages to produce half a policy on energy the Daily Mail, for one, will hail her as the Messiah.
    For 5 minutes. Until the people wielding the calculators point out that her plan does very little to mitigate the disaster. Even the Daily Dacre can't ignore the realities of the bill disaster as it collapses on top of their reader's heads.
    More importantly, people will notice if they can't afford to turn the heating on this winter and nothing works.

    Lots of people don't have much contact with The News (or even GB News), but it's impossible to avoid reality. And the reality is that even a good protective scheme will leave people feeling poorer.
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    Foxy said:

    Time to do a stocktaking of the covid emergency cupboard, and see what can be eaten without being heated...

    This is a good recipe: https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/tuna-caper-panzanella

    It’s tasty, healthy, relatively cheap and doesn’t require any cooking.
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    ydoethur said:

    The polling for Truss is mind-blowing. They appear to be electing a leader not supported by most MPs and badly regarded by most Tory voters.

    Have to hand it to the Tories. They couldn't have fucked this up harder if they had tried.

    Oh come on, that's not true.

    They could have elected Suella Braverman.
    Don't say that.

    You'll given them ideas.

    Seriously - when the Truss era goes pearshaped, there's at least one more utterly bonkers Conservative leader to come before they are ready to consider playing nicely again .

    Probably Badenoch, but Braverman will do.
    We surely need to try the dream team of Mark Francois PM with Gavin Williamson Chancellor and Chris Chope as Attorney General.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,249

    The polling for Truss is mind-blowing. They appear to be electing a leader not supported by most MPs and badly regarded by most Tory voters.

    Have to hand it to the Tories. They couldn't have fucked this up harder if they had tried.

    Let's see what the Truss energy price bail-out looks like before we write her off completely. However, it is hard to have much confidence in any Prime Minister who puts Jacob Rees Mogg in charge of it. Having him on TV day after day explaining it all really doesn't look like a recipe for Tory success.

    I keep meeting people in real life who should on paper be predisposed to Truss who think she’ll be “a disaster”. Some of these are snap judgements based on a snatched few mins of observation during the leadership campaign and nothing else. Others think she has no plan to stop the hollowing out of the economy this winter.

    Jury out on whether she’ll be able easily surpass these expectations and rally in the polls, or whether these judgements will stick regardless of what she does with the job.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,943
    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,806
    edited September 2022
    Morning all. An interesting comment on Liz that I saw over on Conhome is that she has always been a dedicated free-marketeer - this has not changed from the Lib Dem days. Seeing it that way explains a lot.
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    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    You should see the bunch of whiners that comprise the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. Nobody loves them and everybody hates them, so they’ve decided to eat worms.
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    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384
    Re the header, a very graphic graphic here of collapse of Ms Truss's regard within the public as a whole:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/03/the-more-tory-voters-see-of-liz-truss-the-less-they-like-her-polls-show
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    You should see the bunch of whiners that comprise the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. Nobody loves them and everybody hates them, so they’ve decided to eat worms.
    They'll really know they are done when people start pitying them rather than hating them. Though Mr Ross has somewhat inflicted his woes on himself by changing from end to end more often than he does as a footie referee.
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    moonshine said:

    Kherson news blackout continues. In the void are Russians on telegram talking about the destruction of the Ukrainian offensive force. Meanwhile noises the other way that Russian forces are now trying swim across the Dnipro to escape the onslaught. 500 re-supply trucks per day might be needed to re supply the Russian force and perhaps only 50 making it across via ferry / pontoon. You’d have thought within another week the direction of this battle will be known, and it might well be the pivotal one of this war.

    The better accounts I follow are talking about weeks of attrition, they don't seem to be expecting anything spectacular in either direction. With attrition it's really hard to tell who's winning.
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    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
    Not all world views are equal. Very socialist of those who assume they are......
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    Morning all. An interesting comment on Liz that I saw over on Conhome is that she has always been a dedicated free-marketeer - this has not changed from the Lib Dem days. Seeing it that way explains a lot.

    If only she was bright enough to understand that energy is not a free market but a heavily regulated one.
    The problem is that energy is as you say heavily regulated, if it was not if it was treated as a free market, then there would be a lot less problems, and a lot cheaper energy.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,334
    edited September 2022
    BigRich said:

    Morning all. An interesting comment on Liz that I saw over on Conhome is that she has always been a dedicated free-marketeer - this has not changed from the Lib Dem days. Seeing it that way explains a lot.

    If only she was bright enough to understand that energy is not a free market but a heavily regulated one.
    The problem is that energy is as you say heavily regulated, if it was not if it was treated as a free market, then there would be a lot less problems, and a lot cheaper energy.
    Looking at the current renewal prices for businesses how would a free energy market reduce those prices?

    The issue is a simple one of supply and demand as 40% or so of European supply has disappeared.

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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,193
    The first letters are going in to Brady next weekend to start the process of Detrussification according to the Sunday Mirror.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 48,119

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
    lol, quite
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    BigRich said:

    Morning all. An interesting comment on Liz that I saw over on Conhome is that she has always been a dedicated free-marketeer - this has not changed from the Lib Dem days. Seeing it that way explains a lot.

    If only she was bright enough to understand that energy is not a free market but a heavily regulated one.
    The problem is that energy is as you say heavily regulated, if it was not if it was treated as a free market, then there would be a lot less problems, and a lot cheaper energy.
    The regulations were set for a typical energy market and we are in a very atypical one. The answer, whether someone believes in free markets or not, is most definitely not to leave the unsuitable regulations in place because of ideology. Truss has been talking nonsense on this all summer.
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    eek said:

    BigRich said:

    Morning all. An interesting comment on Liz that I saw over on Conhome is that she has always been a dedicated free-marketeer - this has not changed from the Lib Dem days. Seeing it that way explains a lot.

    If only she was bright enough to understand that energy is not a free market but a heavily regulated one.
    The problem is that energy is as you say heavily regulated, if it was not if it was treated as a free market, then there would be a lot less problems, and a lot cheaper energy.
    Looking at the current renewal prices for businesses how would a free energy market reduce those prices?

    The issue is a simple one of supply and demand as 40% or so of European supply has disappeared.

    If we had something even close of a free market in energy, we would have started producing a lot of cheep gas from fracking and more conventional ways in the UK a long time ago. amongst other things.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384
    BigRich said:

    eek said:

    BigRich said:

    Morning all. An interesting comment on Liz that I saw over on Conhome is that she has always been a dedicated free-marketeer - this has not changed from the Lib Dem days. Seeing it that way explains a lot.

    If only she was bright enough to understand that energy is not a free market but a heavily regulated one.
    The problem is that energy is as you say heavily regulated, if it was not if it was treated as a free market, then there would be a lot less problems, and a lot cheaper energy.
    Looking at the current renewal prices for businesses how would a free energy market reduce those prices?

    The issue is a simple one of supply and demand as 40% or so of European supply has disappeared.

    If we had something even close of a free market in energy, we would have started producing a lot of cheep gas from fracking and more conventional ways in the UK a long time ago. amongst other things.
    No, we wouldn't. We already frack (sort of) off shore, and onshore is crap geology for fracking. See previous discussions.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,675

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MISTY said:

    I wonder why Father Calv crowbarred paedophillia into a tweet about transgender issues?



    Only joking, I know exactly why he did!

    Actually there is genuine concern about why some people may be keen to encourage the use of puberty blockers. It is worthy of consideration.
    Genuine concerns about x, words to define the age we live in.

    I know we don't see eye to eye on much UD, but Babylon Berlin is utterly FAB and thanks again for the recommendation.
    👍 Cool. I admit to have becoming totally fanboi about the series to the point of being evangelical, but glad if I've made at least one convert!
    I liked Rings of Power a lot. Am I alone here?

    First of all, the elements we can all agree on? There’s nothing wrong with the excellent soundtrack and score, use of music and sound was good. And the Title Sequence is quite excellent too. I enjoyed the visual spectacle - the hidden Hobbit village coming alive was very good.

    Pacing we could argue over. I thought the first episode had a good pace. There was discussion here last week, horror tales tend be short, if it’s long then it becomes more than horror - similar here in that making Rings of Power have pace, action and suspense it has to move away from pure Tolkienism - indeed hiding from, and the battle with the big Orc, sequence Spielberg would have been proud of.

    And whilst some of the script was a little lame, some performances were very good. Markella Kavenagh steals acting honours as adventurous Hobbit Nori - Ismael Córdova as buttoned up Elf Arondir likeable too.

    Too early to say about Characterisation just two episodes in. Accents. Maybe a bit like Derry Girls doing Midsummer Nights Dream at times?

    If Tolkien purists were to argue it’s not true to Tolkien enough, I would argue it builds upon what Tolkien offered, mankind fighting for Morgoth so held in suspicion for example. For purists I’m reminded about what Stu from Romford said about ism’s earlier today. How do the purists know that the man himself wouldn’t watch this and enjoy it?

    Loved Galadriel’s warrior eye make up when she took down the troll, I’m going to do mine like that. 😍
    You're also the only remaining fan of Yorkshire County Cricket Club. That's a warning light about your judgment :smile:

    What would Tolkien have thought? Well, there are a couple of answers to that. First of all, he really hated people making changes to his ideas. In fact he vetoed several possible film productions of the Lord of the rings because they wanted to alter plot points, commenting, 'I don't mind people leaving things out, but I wish they wouldn't change things.' Therefore, we can probably say that he would be pretty pissed off with what's been done here in terms of his Legendarium.

    However, there is another side to this. The character of Galadriel in particular changed a great deal as he was writing about her. So, for example, in the fellowship of the ring she describes herself as having passed over the mountains of the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin to join Celeborn who is that point appears to have been a Nandorin elf. However by the time he wrote the appendices he changed his mind and Celeborn and Galadriel ran the kingdom of south Lindon for many years after the end of the second age having met in Doriath.

    Yet another version of her backstory in unfinished tales shows her and Celeborn as the Lord and Lady of Eregion having founded it sometime after the end of the first stage.

    Now, anyone of these could make an excellent story which makes it deeply puzzling that the writers have decided to ditch the whole bloody lot and come up with something totally different but wildly inconsistent with the texts and in fact not very convincing on the first couple of episodes.

    Which is roughly why I'm not very impressed with them.
    The thing is: I really don't care what Tolkien would have thought. I want an entertaining story, well told. Perhaps there were reasons for the changes; perhaps not. It's a series *inspired* by his writing, not a word-for-word reciting of the story.

    In the same way the TV series 'Elementary' had very little connection with Conan Doyle's stories, but was still far more faithful than the BBC's Sherlock.
    Perhaps. But so far, I haven't found this especially entertaining. Certainly less so than any of the ideas they could have picked up and run with from Tolkien's writing.

    I've watched an episode and a half. It's unlikely I'll watch the rest.
    What’s all this I’m missing? I only popped on for the Opinium.

    “ You're also the only remaining fan of Yorkshire County Cricket Club. That's a warning light about your judgment “

    Who woke you up grumpy old Gandalf. 🤣.

    Well I’m enjoying how they have made it suspenseful, mysterious and a visual and auditory charm to wallow in. And that’s even before the characters and storyline builds.

    Most of Tolkiens work is a historical and mythical mishmash anyway, hardly original with so much copied from the Edda and then changed to be or mean something else, so Tolkien purists can’t be too Poe faced about the effort put in here in my honest opinion.
    The only bit that really annoyed me so far was the implied trans (ha) oceanic swimming thing.

    That and maybe the dropping the Ban of the Valar on certain people rocking up in Valinor.

    The way the Two Trees and their destruction was done was very fine - clever use of a shadow to suggest Morgoth, without getting into the issue of them not having rights to the First Age writings.

    Some interesting ideas in the story - will be interesting to see where they go with it. And how the Lord Of Gifts gets brought in…
    I really like Tolkein but the best thing that has probably been done with his work is this: https://saurons.home.blog/
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    BigRich said:

    eek said:

    BigRich said:

    Morning all. An interesting comment on Liz that I saw over on Conhome is that she has always been a dedicated free-marketeer - this has not changed from the Lib Dem days. Seeing it that way explains a lot.

    If only she was bright enough to understand that energy is not a free market but a heavily regulated one.
    The problem is that energy is as you say heavily regulated, if it was not if it was treated as a free market, then there would be a lot less problems, and a lot cheaper energy.
    Looking at the current renewal prices for businesses how would a free energy market reduce those prices?

    The issue is a simple one of supply and demand as 40% or so of European supply has disappeared.

    If we had something even close of a free market in energy, we would have started producing a lot of cheep gas from fracking and more conventional ways in the UK a long time ago. amongst other things.
    Forget fracking. PB's oil industry insiders tell us there is no frackable gas in Britain. As Margaret Thatcher almost said, free markets can't buck geology.
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    I also saw Richard III at the RSC in Stratford yesterday 😊

    In the car park?
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,281
    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    You should see the bunch of whiners that comprise the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. Nobody loves them and everybody hates them, so they’ve decided to eat worms.
    They'll really know they are done when people start pitying them rather than hating them. Though Mr Ross has somewhat inflicted his woes on himself by changing from end to end more often than he does as a footie referee.
    To be fair, they have been Scotland's second largest party for 6 years. This tends to really annoy people when you mention it (particularly other Labour supporters).
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,685

    Dura_Ace said:

    The first letters are going in to Brady next weekend to start the process of Detrussification according to the Sunday Mirror.

    Is one signed by the member for Uxbridge? And good morning one and all!
    Prime Minister Johnson back in the No 11 flat before the wallpaper has been torn down will be quite something.

    I suspect a returning Johnson's polling will be through the roof. Ironic, I know, compared to where we are today, but the voters will reflect a nation's gratitude at dodging the Truss bullet. CoL crisis or no CoL crisis. Perhaps that was his Partygate master plan all along.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 48,119
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
    Have a different world view sure. But don’t incite a mob to storm the Capitol and somehow play the victim. Don’t spend your entire waking hours attacking others and then complain when if someone dares critics your favoured candidate.

    The hypocrisy of certain sections of this new right is a concern. They remind me of a toddler prepared to break everything if they don’t get what they want.
    But the American Left is just as pathetic, hypocritical, wanky. They kvetch about Trump claiming the Dems stole the election, but they spent years claiming Trump stole his election in 2016

    And of course in some significant ways (just not the ones Trump cites) they DID steal the2020 election. They conspired with Facebook to silence the unhelpful Hunter Biden story. They conspired with Fauci, Facebook and Twitter to make the lab leak theory not just invisible but UNSAYABLE - as a "racist conspiracy theory" - for a year. Until Trump, who espoused the theory, was safely gone

    Both sides are appalling and apparently have no intention of moderating. Hence: civil war, perhaps

    After the Roe v Wade reversal, I expect the Dems to do better in the midterms and probably scrape a win with Biden in 2024. But that means four more years of worsening Wokeness. If this comes true the fever will therefore peak in the late 2020s when the GOP will likely sweep to power with an overtly "far right" agenda
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,298
    BigRich said:

    eek said:

    BigRich said:

    Morning all. An interesting comment on Liz that I saw over on Conhome is that she has always been a dedicated free-marketeer - this has not changed from the Lib Dem days. Seeing it that way explains a lot.

    If only she was bright enough to understand that energy is not a free market but a heavily regulated one.
    The problem is that energy is as you say heavily regulated, if it was not if it was treated as a free market, then there would be a lot less problems, and a lot cheaper energy.
    Looking at the current renewal prices for businesses how would a free energy market reduce those prices?

    The issue is a simple one of supply and demand as 40% or so of European supply has disappeared.

    If we had something even close of a free market in energy, we would have started producing a lot of cheep gas from fracking and more conventional ways in the UK a long time ago. amongst other things.
    Permission to frack, and indeed permission to build on-shore wind farms or have solar panels in a field, are not down to whether we have a free market or not.

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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,987
    Dura_Ace said:

    The first letters are going in to Brady next weekend to start the process of Detrussification according to the Sunday Mirror.

    The position come Christmas will be fascinating. I think we’ll know clearly which way everything is heading (I think we do know now in all honesty, with the supposed cabinet appointments)

    We’ll have Mogg on the airwaves daily telling us all to “get back to the office” because we’re all lazy, unproductive swines, or we’ll have our holidays and pay reduced
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    Truss - I will act on energy bills in the first week

    She will not reveal the detail to Kunnessberg on BBC
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,273
    This must go down as one of the most pointless political interviews of all time.

    I guess it’s good for Truss as she gets to dodge this interview again until the party conference.
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    tlg86 said:

    This must go down as one of the most pointless political interviews of all time.

    I guess it’s good for Truss as she gets to dodge this interview again until the party conference.

    Truss has been consistent in saying she will not announce details of her cost of living proposals until she becomes PM

    I have no problem with that and if she does announce a comprehensive long term package next week then she may confound a lot of her critics
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,675

    moonshine said:

    Kherson news blackout continues. In the void are Russians on telegram talking about the destruction of the Ukrainian offensive force. Meanwhile noises the other way that Russian forces are now trying swim across the Dnipro to escape the onslaught. 500 re-supply trucks per day might be needed to re supply the Russian force and perhaps only 50 making it across via ferry / pontoon. You’d have thought within another week the direction of this battle will be known, and it might well be the pivotal one of this war.

    The better accounts I follow are talking about weeks of attrition, they don't seem to be expecting anything spectacular in either direction. With attrition it's really hard to tell who's winning.
    This is all about supply. Unless Russia can improve their links over the Dnieper river then their forces on the west bank are losing every time there is an exchange of fire. The Ukranians have to maintain the intensity of the fighting there beyond the Russian supply capability. If they do, they win. It will take a while but the Russians have a serious problem and are going to run out of ammo.
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    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,173
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
    Have a different world view sure. But don’t incite a mob to storm the Capitol and somehow play the victim. Don’t spend your entire waking hours attacking others and then complain when if someone dares critics your favoured candidate.

    The hypocrisy of certain sections of this new right is a concern. They remind me of a toddler prepared to break everything if they don’t get what they want.
    But the American Left is just as pathetic, hypocritical, wanky. They kvetch about Trump claiming the Dems stole the election, but they spent years claiming Trump stole his election in 2016

    And of course in some significant ways (just not the ones Trump cites) they DID steal the2020 election. They conspired with Facebook to silence the unhelpful Hunter Biden story. They conspired with Fauci, Facebook and Twitter to make the lab leak theory not just invisible but UNSAYABLE - as a "racist conspiracy theory" - for a year. Until Trump, who espoused the theory, was safely gone

    Both sides are appalling and apparently have no intention of moderating. Hence: civil war, perhaps

    After the Roe v Wade reversal, I expect the Dems to do better in the midterms and probably scrape a win with Biden in 2024. But that means four more years of worsening Wokeness. If this comes true the fever will therefore peak in the late 2020s when the GOP will likely sweep to power with an overtly "far right" agenda
    Your attempt at false equivalence is very misguided ! The Dems didn’t actively try and steal the 2016 election and to suggest that the Dems stole the 2020 election shows that you are indeed a Trump supporter regardless of your attempts to pretend otherwise.

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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,685
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
    Have a different world view sure. But don’t incite a mob to storm the Capitol and somehow play the victim. Don’t spend your entire waking hours attacking others and then complain when if someone dares critics your favoured candidate.

    The hypocrisy of certain sections of this new right is a concern. They remind me of a toddler prepared to break everything if they don’t get what they want.
    But the American Left is just as pathetic, hypocritical, wanky. They kvetch about Trump claiming the Dems stole the election, but they spent years claiming Trump stole his election in 2016

    And of course in some significant ways (just not the ones Trump cites) they DID steal the2020 election. They conspired with Facebook to silence the unhelpful Hunter Biden story. They conspired with Fauci, Facebook and Twitter to make the lab leak theory not just invisible but UNSAYABLE - as a "racist conspiracy theory" - for a year. Until Trump, who espoused the theory, was safely gone

    Both sides are appalling and apparently have no intention of moderating. Hence: civil war, perhaps

    After the Roe v Wade reversal, I expect the Dems to do better in the midterms and probably scrape a win with Biden in 2024. But that means four more years of worsening Wokeness. If this comes true the fever will therefore peak in the late 2020s when the GOP will likely sweep to power with an overtly "far right" agenda
    "The American left"? An oxymoron surely.

    I see your via PB audition for GBNews is on track. Keep up the good work.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
    Have a different world view sure. But don’t incite a mob to storm the Capitol and somehow play the victim. Don’t spend your entire waking hours attacking others and then complain when if someone dares critics your favoured candidate.

    The hypocrisy of certain sections of this new right is a concern. They remind me of a toddler prepared to break everything if they don’t get what they want.
    Well put. Even if someone wants to argue there are similarities of kind, they are not similar in degree, and that's significant.

    Besides, the right have long been just as big snowflakes as the left.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,230

    Truss - I will act on energy bills in the first week

    She will not reveal the detail to Kunnessberg on BBC

    Because the actual details should be announced first in Parliament, no matter how much the media think that they are more important.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,685

    tlg86 said:

    This must go down as one of the most pointless political interviews of all time.

    I guess it’s good for Truss as she gets to dodge this interview again until the party conference.

    Truss has been consistent in saying she will not announce details of her cost of living proposals until she becomes PM

    I have no problem with that and if she does announce a comprehensive long term package next week then she may confound a lot of her critics
    SOLD! To an internet buyer in North Wales.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580
    edited September 2022

    Dura_Ace said:

    The first letters are going in to Brady next weekend to start the process of Detrussification according to the Sunday Mirror.

    The position come Christmas will be fascinating. I think we’ll know clearly which way everything is heading (I think we do know now in all honesty, with the supposed cabinet appointments)

    We’ll have Mogg on the airwaves daily telling us all to “get back to the office” because we’re all lazy, unproductive swines, or we’ll have our holidays and pay reduced
    A man with no insight, ability or compassion, with the self awareness of a lump of coal and the ego of Caligula. Just what we need.

    Come on Truss, there really are decent people to pick, you dont need to do this.
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    PhilPhil Posts: 1,962
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
    Have a different world view sure. But don’t incite a mob to storm the Capitol and somehow play the victim. Don’t spend your entire waking hours attacking others and then complain when if someone dares critics your favoured candidate.

    The hypocrisy of certain sections of this new right is a concern. They remind me of a toddler prepared to break everything if they don’t get what they want.
    But the American Left is just as pathetic, hypocritical, wanky. They kvetch about Trump claiming the Dems stole the election, but they spent years claiming Trump stole his election in 2016

    And of course in some significant ways (just not the ones Trump cites) they DID steal the2020 election. They conspired with Facebook to silence the unhelpful Hunter Biden story. They conspired with Fauci, Facebook and Twitter to make the lab leak theory not just invisible but UNSAYABLE - as a "racist conspiracy theory" - for a year. Until Trump, who espoused the theory, was safely gone

    Both sides are appalling and apparently have no intention of moderating. Hence: civil war, perhaps

    After the Roe v Wade reversal, I expect the Dems to do better in the midterms and probably scrape a win with Biden in 2024. But that means four more years of worsening Wokeness. If this comes true the fever will therefore peak in the late 2020s when the GOP will likely sweep to power with an overtly "far right" agenda
    This is false equivalence & you know it Leon.

    Did Dem leadership claim that the 2016 election was rigged? Did they stir up a violent insurrection to try and prevent the transfer of power? No.

    Yes, there were those who questioned the 2016 election. But the difference in both scale & degree is enormous.

    Have you really gone so far down the alt-right cesspit that you can’t see this?
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    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
    Have a different world view sure. But don’t incite a mob to storm the Capitol and somehow play the victim. Don’t spend your entire waking hours attacking others and then complain when if someone dares critics your favoured candidate.

    The hypocrisy of certain sections of this new right is a concern. They remind me of a toddler prepared to break everything if they don’t get what they want.
    But the American Left is just as pathetic, hypocritical, wanky. They kvetch about Trump claiming the Dems stole the election, but they spent years claiming Trump stole his election in 2016

    And of course in some significant ways (just not the ones Trump cites) they DID steal the2020 election. They conspired with Facebook to silence the unhelpful Hunter Biden story. They conspired with Fauci, Facebook and Twitter to make the lab leak theory not just invisible but UNSAYABLE - as a "racist conspiracy theory" - for a year. Until Trump, who espoused the theory, was safely gone

    Both sides are appalling and apparently have no intention of moderating. Hence: civil war, perhaps

    After the Roe v Wade reversal, I expect the Dems to do better in the midterms and probably scrape a win with Biden in 2024. But that means four more years of worsening Wokeness. If this comes true the fever will therefore peak in the late 2020s when the GOP will likely sweep to power with an overtly "far right" agenda
    Biden 81 million votes
    Trump 74 million votes

    :innocent:
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    PhilPhil Posts: 1,962
    Also: NEW THREAD!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580
    edited September 2022
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
    Have a different world view sure. But don’t incite a mob to storm the Capitol and somehow play the victim. Don’t spend your entire waking hours attacking others and then complain when if someone dares critics your favoured candidate.

    The hypocrisy of certain sections of this new right is a concern. They remind me of a toddler prepared to break everything if they don’t get what they want.
    But the American Left is just as pathetic, hypocritical, wanky. They kvetch about Trump claiming the Dems stole the election, but they spent years claiming Trump stole his election in 2016

    And of course in some significant ways (just not the ones Trump cites) they DID steal the2020 election. They conspired with Facebook to silence the unhelpful Hunter Biden story. They conspired with Fauci, Facebook and Twitter to make the lab leak theory not just invisible but UNSAYABLE - as a "racist conspiracy theory" - for a year. Until Trump, who espoused the theory, was safely gone

    Both sides are appalling and apparently have no intention of moderating. Hence: civil war, perhaps

    After the Roe v Wade reversal, I expect the Dems to do better in the midterms and probably scrape a win with Biden in 2024. But that means four more years of worsening Wokeness. If this comes true the fever will therefore peak in the late 2020s when the GOP will likely sweep to power with an overtly "far right" agenda
    I nominate you for the @Plato_Says memorial award for disappearing down the alt.right black hole
    It's been years yet people still try to equate moaning about Trump winning in 2016 with the incitement of a mob and a great many figures seeking to enable legislatures to overturn an election outcome they dont like.

    Those things are not the same! They just aren't.

    The worst Democrats are awful. Be disgusted by some of them. But the behaviours toward accepting elections has not been the same. It might next time though.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,819
    Labour’s Emily Thornberry makes this assessment of Liz Truss - says she has very thick skin but is light weight on detail #Kuenssberg
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    Phil said:

    Did Dem leadership claim that the 2016 election was rigged? Did they stir up a violent insurrection to try and prevent the transfer of power? No.

    https://twitter.com/CaldronPool/status/1300244705649676289
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    PhilPhil Posts: 1,962

    Phil said:

    Did Dem leadership claim that the 2016 election was rigged? Did they stir up a violent insurrection to try and prevent the transfer of power? No.

    https://twitter.com/CaldronPool/status/1300244705649676289
    A bunch of out of context quotes from who knows when from a niche, dominionist Christian org. Come on, you can do better than this.

    In 2016 there was a peaceful transfer of power: Obama turned up to the inaugaration and everything! The contrast with 2020 could not be more stark.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,685
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour’s Emily Thornberry makes this assessment of Liz Truss - says she has very thick skin but is light weight on detail #Kuenssberg

    Lord Astor speaks.

    (He is right though).
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,533
    eek said:

    Icarus said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:
    It's the new groundnut scheme.
    "Battery technology pioneer Britishvolt today [20 August 2022] announces a transition within its management team, aligned to the company’s growth plans and 2050 vision. Founder and Chief Executive Officer Orral Nadjari is to step down, with Dr Graham Hoare OBE appointed as Acting CEO."
    I’ve known this for a week - the issue is they need a suitably sized customer and there simply isn’t one in the UK.
    Brexit strangled the nascent UK battery industry at birth.
    It's been blamed unfairly for all manner of things, but this is one that's pretty certain.

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    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    Kherson news blackout continues. In the void are Russians on telegram talking about the destruction of the Ukrainian offensive force. Meanwhile noises the other way that Russian forces are now trying swim across the Dnipro to escape the onslaught. 500 re-supply trucks per day might be needed to re supply the Russian force and perhaps only 50 making it across via ferry / pontoon. You’d have thought within another week the direction of this battle will be known, and it might well be the pivotal one of this war.

    The better accounts I follow are talking about weeks of attrition, they don't seem to be expecting anything spectacular in either direction. With attrition it's really hard to tell who's winning.
    This is all about supply. Unless Russia can improve their links over the Dnieper river then their forces on the west bank are losing every time there is an exchange of fire. The Ukranians have to maintain the intensity of the fighting there beyond the Russian supply capability. If they do, they win. It will take a while but the Russians have a serious problem and are going to run out of ammo.
    That is true, and yet the Ukrainians also have limits on their availability of trained soldiers, armoured vehicles and ammunition. They will also be suffering attrition, and it is not possible to say whether they will reach their limits of endurance before the Russians do, because we don't know what those limits are, or what rate they are suffering losses at.

    It looks as though Ukraine are fighting in a more sophisticated way than Russia did during Russia's summer offensive in the Donbas, and so there is reason to suspect that they are doing what they can to limit their losses, but attacking in modern war seems to be very hard, and the Ukrainians are suffering losses. The Russians seem to be a lot more willing to fight then they are often given credit for. It's hard to know which way it will go.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,409

    DavidL said:

    moonshine said:

    Kherson news blackout continues. In the void are Russians on telegram talking about the destruction of the Ukrainian offensive force. Meanwhile noises the other way that Russian forces are now trying swim across the Dnipro to escape the onslaught. 500 re-supply trucks per day might be needed to re supply the Russian force and perhaps only 50 making it across via ferry / pontoon. You’d have thought within another week the direction of this battle will be known, and it might well be the pivotal one of this war.

    The better accounts I follow are talking about weeks of attrition, they don't seem to be expecting anything spectacular in either direction. With attrition it's really hard to tell who's winning.
    This is all about supply. Unless Russia can improve their links over the Dnieper river then their forces on the west bank are losing every time there is an exchange of fire. The Ukranians have to maintain the intensity of the fighting there beyond the Russian supply capability. If they do, they win. It will take a while but the Russians have a serious problem and are going to run out of ammo.
    That is true, and yet the Ukrainians also have limits on their availability of trained soldiers, armoured vehicles and ammunition. They will also be suffering attrition, and it is not possible to say whether they will reach their limits of endurance before the Russians do, because we don't know what those limits are, or what rate they are suffering losses at.

    It looks as though Ukraine are fighting in a more sophisticated way than Russia did during Russia's summer offensive in the Donbas, and so there is reason to suspect that they are doing what they can to limit their losses, but attacking in modern war seems to be very hard, and the Ukrainians are suffering losses. The Russians seem to be a lot more willing to fight then they are often given credit for. It's hard to know which way it will go.
    The Ukrainians do have two significant advantages, though:

    Firstly, the West is supplying then with weapons and ammunition, and their ability to resupply their troops will benefit from both shorter supply lines, and the lack of a need to cross the river.

    Secondly, the Ukrainians are fighting on their own soil. It's a hell of a lot easier to get motivated troops when they are fighting to drive the invaders out, rather than when you are fighting for some imperialist dream.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,409
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    What is wrong with the right? Glanced at the paper headlines, Trump doubling down calling Biden an enemy of the state and the Sunday Mail, in what has to be one of their most ironic headlines, complains that Johnson and Truss were subject to an unfair steam of criticism.

    I’ve not seen this victim mentality and willingness to double down and argue black is white before. Worrying times.

    What is wrong with other people thinking differently to me? Why, it's almost like they have a totally different world view!
    Have a different world view sure. But don’t incite a mob to storm the Capitol and somehow play the victim. Don’t spend your entire waking hours attacking others and then complain when if someone dares critics your favoured candidate.

    The hypocrisy of certain sections of this new right is a concern. They remind me of a toddler prepared to break everything if they don’t get what they want.
    But the American Left is just as pathetic, hypocritical, wanky. They kvetch about Trump claiming the Dems stole the election, but they spent years claiming Trump stole his election in 2016

    And of course in some significant ways (just not the ones Trump cites) they DID steal the2020 election. They conspired with Facebook to silence the unhelpful Hunter Biden story. They conspired with Fauci, Facebook and Twitter to make the lab leak theory not just invisible but UNSAYABLE - as a "racist conspiracy theory" - for a year. Until Trump, who espoused the theory, was safely gone

    Both sides are appalling and apparently have no intention of moderating. Hence: civil war, perhaps

    After the Roe v Wade reversal, I expect the Dems to do better in the midterms and probably scrape a win with Biden in 2024. But that means four more years of worsening Wokeness. If this comes true the fever will therefore peak in the late 2020s when the GOP will likely sweep to power with an overtly "far right" agenda
    Ah yes, I remember Hillary's attempts to overturn the 2016 election, I remember Obama flouncing and refusing to be at Trump's inauguration, I even remember the attempts to create parallel slates of electors and to claim that the entire mechanism for voting was a fraud.

    Sore loser != attempting to overthrow the electoral result.

    I also find it odd that you react with such primal passion about the EU referendum, and yet somehow look to excuse the behavior of Trump.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,505
    edited September 2022
    ...
This discussion has been closed.