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Some worrying findings for the Tories from Opinium – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,190
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Replying to @Leon from the last thread
    Dystopian indeed. It doesnt take much reading between the lines from a September announcement of a Jan to Mar subsidy of bus fares so people can afford to get to work to work out just how much shit we are in. Expect many more such things being announced, get your freezer stocked and buy a new kettle.
    I invested in 2 very nice hoodies in Scotland. Toasty.

    Yes. I'm surprised the bus policy attracted so little comment.
    It's a major intervention. Of the type which the new PM must have signed off on. It is what they dragged Burnham through court to prevent.
    It's a huge deal.
    And not a harbinger of good at all.
    Its the most worrying development i've seen so far. It literally reeks of horizon doom
    Yep.
    State mandated pricing in buses. Something undreamed of outside our capitals.
    Worst Tory nightmare in fact. They've been fighting this since David Blunkett was a councillor.
    Implies very real fear of businesses closing because no one can afford to travel.
    Those businesses might have no shortage of other reasons to have to close anyway.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,798

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    I will never stop wondering why you specified recent *English* incomers there. Never.
  • Eabhal said:

    Good evening

    It seems PB has decided Truss is over before she even takes office and the policies announced

    I have no idea why she thinks JRM and Dorries should be in her cabinet other than some plot to prevent 2 by elections as Johnson sends them to the Lords

    However, I am more restrained as I haven't a clue what she will announce next week, but I would be surprised if she and those around her do not provide an extensive support package for consumers and as importantly businesses, especially small businesses

    A package well targeted and very pro business may well change the narrative and have some red faces on here

    I admit I have to be persuaded by her, but at least let her get in office and start the post Johnson age

    Her poll ratings are poor but even Starmer is only on 29% tonight

    Truth is disenchantment , worry and fear stalks the political class as they attempt to do the impossible and make the cost of living crisis disappear as if it is not real when it is a direct consequence of the war with Russia which only ends when that does

    The polling indeed suggests none of the above is wanted in number 10.
    If Labour are high 30s, low 40s, 29% thinking Starmer will be best PM suggests their vote is shallow.
    Having said that, its better than the blues right now!
    Everybody's is better than the conservatives who have taken leave of their senses, indeed the only good is Johnson leaving no 10 on Tuesday
    Theyve got a bugger of a job to do to hold it all together this winter, i fear for what might happen. I'm trying to be hopeful but also feeling rather bleakly pessimistic. I just think its too big. For anyone. Starmers intervention already looks ludicrously naive and undercooked. But it does at least exist.
    Starmer's solution was far too generous to people on higher incomes. It really needs to be Sunak's (x4) or similar.
    My issue with Starmer's proposals were that the wealthy including footballers, celebrities, and company bosses were included when in truth those with the broadest shoulders should contribute to the crisis not benefit from it

    Furthermore he refuses to answer what he will do when energy rises to £6,000 in April and nothing at all for business other than a billion raised by increasing the Amazon tax
  • I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Is that a go @RochdalePioneers as it is quite funny
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    People waking up to what a dramatic change of government this is. Truss and Kwarzy politics in a very different place than Boris and his chancellors, very very different place to Dave and May and their chancellors, very different to Major and Clarke and the Labour PMs and CoE that followed.

    It will be proper, dry, courage of their convictions Thatcherism.

    From Monday.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    edited September 2022

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Truss' government also to add a requirement that 60%+ in polls of Scots for at least a year in favour of indyref2 required before any UK government would even consider granting it
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,798

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Haha, quite. Only 5 weeks till Supreme Court decision!
  • dixiedean said:

    Replying to @Leon from the last thread
    Dystopian indeed. It doesnt take much reading between the lines from a September announcement of a Jan to Mar subsidy of bus fares so people can afford to get to work to work out just how much shit we are in. Expect many more such things being announced, get your freezer stocked and buy a new kettle.
    I invested in 2 very nice hoodies in Scotland. Toasty.

    Yes. I'm surprised the bus policy attracted so little comment.
    It's a major intervention. Of the type which the new PM must have signed off on. It is what they dragged Burnham through court to prevent.
    It's a huge deal.
    And not a harbinger of good at all.
    Besides. A lot of places have increasingly skeletal bus services anyway.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357

    HYUFD said:

    The Sweden Democrats have beaten the Moderates in the last 23 polls.

    If this holds true on the evening of 11 September (the result is known within an hour or two of polling closing), and SD+M+KD+L is greater than S+V+C+MP then we will likely see an extremely unstable minority M+KD government with C&S from SD and L. Probably won’t last 12 months.

    Personally I’m still hoping that PM Magdalena Andersson holds on. I voted C-C-L (national-regional-local) with that aim.

    I really wish that my former party the Moderates had held on to our previous leader Anna Kinberg Batra. There is no way she would have got the party into the guddle that Ulf Kristersson has created.

    Yes but Kristersson might still be PM as even you suggest due to his willingness to deal with the SDs
    … despite his willingness to deal with them.

    Without being willing to accept SD confidence and supply he has zero chance of becoming PM
  • HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    People waking up to what a dramatic change of government this is. Truss and Kwarzy politics in a very different place than Boris and his chancellors, very very different place to Dave and May and their chancellors, very different to Major and Clarke and the Labour PMs and CoE that followed.

    It will be proper, dry, courage of their convictions Thatcherism.

    From Monday.
    Err Tuesday after seeing the Queen at Balmoral
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,190
    Eabhal said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
    Never really stops them shouting toxic nationalism anyway, tbf.
  • HYUFD said:

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Truss' government also to add a requirement that 60%+ in polls of Scots for at least a year in favour of indyref2 required before any UK government would even consider granting it
    Will be interesting how Starmer responds
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Not a britnat but that should have been the rule for Brexit and should be the rule for all referendums and should be welcomed by all sides, because it saves them from a Brexit type pyrrhic victory.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650

    Eabhal said:

    Good evening

    It seems PB has decided Truss is over before she even takes office and the policies announced

    I have no idea why she thinks JRM and Dorries should be in her cabinet other than some plot to prevent 2 by elections as Johnson sends them to the Lords

    However, I am more restrained as I haven't a clue what she will announce next week, but I would be surprised if she and those around her do not provide an extensive support package for consumers and as importantly businesses, especially small businesses

    A package well targeted and very pro business may well change the narrative and have some red faces on here

    I admit I have to be persuaded by her, but at least let her get in office and start the post Johnson age

    Her poll ratings are poor but even Starmer is only on 29% tonight

    Truth is disenchantment , worry and fear stalks the political class as they attempt to do the impossible and make the cost of living crisis disappear as if it is not real when it is a direct consequence of the war with Russia which only ends when that does

    The polling indeed suggests none of the above is wanted in number 10.
    If Labour are high 30s, low 40s, 29% thinking Starmer will be best PM suggests their vote is shallow.
    Having said that, its better than the blues right now!
    Everybody's is better than the conservatives who have taken leave of their senses, indeed the only good is Johnson leaving no 10 on Tuesday
    Theyve got a bugger of a job to do to hold it all together this winter, i fear for what might happen. I'm trying to be hopeful but also feeling rather bleakly pessimistic. I just think its too big. For anyone. Starmers intervention already looks ludicrously naive and undercooked. But it does at least exist.
    Starmer's solution was far too generous to people on higher incomes. It really needs to be Sunak's (x4) or similar.
    My issue with Starmer's proposals were that the wealthy including footballers, celebrities, and company bosses were included when in truth those with the broadest shoulders should contribute to the crisis not benefit from it

    Furthermore he refuses to answer what he will do when energy rises to £6,000 in April and nothing at all for business other than a billion raised by increasing the Amazon tax
    When pressed on it in interview (the what about April onwards) he wibbled on about insulation like one of those glue your butt to the road nutters. It does nothing to support business. It only looks superficially attractive because nought else is on the table. If she cant beat that in her response they deserve to lose and lose big.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214

    The key number from Opinium is that the Tories are just four points behind. With a huge energy price rescue plan to come, there is all to play for. However, given the Opinium methodology and how it allocates Don’t Knows, it’s clear that Truss needs to find a way to get Tory to Labour switchers back. The Don’t Knows will not do it for her.

    Seems an odd +4 swing though, when nothing has really changed to prompt it
    The last one was the outlier. And South Ham is right, the higher you poll by sweeping up don’t knows yourself the smaller the packet of don’t knows the % gets added to you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    Carnyx said:

    I just refuse to believe that Liz Truss is too stupid to understand that there will have to be an absolutely massive intervention on energy prices. She has no option but to do something huge. There really is no alternative. It’s the rest that concerns me.

    Her administration is utterly finished within a week or so if she does not go large and I mean massively fucking large on energy.

    My brain cannot compute her not doing this with some kind of cover for the lovely, ageing, ranting members who want a bit of a cut to the NI they no longer pay.



    I might believe she is serious if she

    (a) eliminates inheritance tax allowances beyond the basic one especially those for Approved Families ((c) C of E)
    (b) ditto the savings interest, rentals, and dividends allowances for income tax

    Won't be nearly enough - but it will show she's no longer pandering to the grey legions of the Tory Party and is at least aware that voters exist beyond that.
    The appetite for Singapore style capitalism with high inheritance tax and little support for pensioners' savings is about 10% max in the UK.

    So it would be political suicide for Truss to try it
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,190
    HYUFD said:

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Truss' government also to add a requirement that 60%+ in polls of Scots for at least a year in favour of indyref2 required before any UK government would even consider granting it
    Ooooh, they'll "consider" it at that point? How very generous.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,643
    Surely those rumours re Truss dropping the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday are some wind up .

    How on earth is removing that guarantee any sort of vote winner or are the Tories now so arrogant that they think they can get away with anything.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    Eabhal said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
    To be blunt, Scottish nationalism already looks pretty toxic to this non-English observer. Like Farageism only with even more dishonesty.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357

    HYUFD said:

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Truss' government also to add a requirement that 60%+ in polls of Scots for at least a year in favour of indyref2 required before any UK government would even consider granting it
    Will be interesting how Starmer responds
    Truss intends to pass that into law, so unless Starmer repeals it that makes a very high threshold even to get to indyref2
  • eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    Truss' new government will also lift the fracking ban within days

    https://twitter.com/toryboypierce/status/1566075534295146496?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    That first change will require changing multiple parts of employment law - which really does need to be sorted as current employment law is a grade a mess.

    We’ve covered fracking before though - the Uk geology isn’t suitable
    Fracking is an easy win for Truss.

    She lifts any bans but then no one wants to actually do any fracking in UK - a detail that will escape her members.
    It's bizarro post-modern politics. Lifting a fracking ban that doesn't release a single bubble of gas but makes the Conservative right feel good... Why?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Sweden Democrats have beaten the Moderates in the last 23 polls.

    If this holds true on the evening of 11 September (the result is known within an hour or two of polling closing), and SD+M+KD+L is greater than S+V+C+MP then we will likely see an extremely unstable minority M+KD government with C&S from SD and L. Probably won’t last 12 months.

    Personally I’m still hoping that PM Magdalena Andersson holds on. I voted C-C-L (national-regional-local) with that aim.

    I really wish that my former party the Moderates had held on to our previous leader Anna Kinberg Batra. There is no way she would have got the party into the guddle that Ulf Kristersson has created.

    Yes but Kristersson might still be PM as even you suggest due to his willingness to deal with the SDs
    … despite his willingness to deal with them.

    Without being willing to accept SD confidence and supply he has zero chance of becoming PM
    That comment displays how Nigel Farage has totally succeeded in rotting Tory self-confidence. “Zero chance”?!? Accept the far right or you have “zero chance”?!?

    The centre-right has a choice: concede to the far right, as the Tories have done, or defeat them at the ballot box. “Zero chance” my arse.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    Eabhal said:

    Good evening

    It seems PB has decided Truss is over before she even takes office and the policies announced

    I have no idea why she thinks JRM and Dorries should be in her cabinet other than some plot to prevent 2 by elections as Johnson sends them to the Lords

    However, I am more restrained as I haven't a clue what she will announce next week, but I would be surprised if she and those around her do not provide an extensive support package for consumers and as importantly businesses, especially small businesses

    A package well targeted and very pro business may well change the narrative and have some red faces on here

    I admit I have to be persuaded by her, but at least let her get in office and start the post Johnson age

    Her poll ratings are poor but even Starmer is only on 29% tonight

    Truth is disenchantment , worry and fear stalks the political class as they attempt to do the impossible and make the cost of living crisis disappear as if it is not real when it is a direct consequence of the war with Russia which only ends when that does

    The polling indeed suggests none of the above is wanted in number 10.
    If Labour are high 30s, low 40s, 29% thinking Starmer will be best PM suggests their vote is shallow.
    Having said that, its better than the blues right now!
    Everybody's is better than the conservatives who have taken leave of their senses, indeed the only good is Johnson leaving no 10 on Tuesday
    Theyve got a bugger of a job to do to hold it all together this winter, i fear for what might happen. I'm trying to be hopeful but also feeling rather bleakly pessimistic. I just think its too big. For anyone. Starmers intervention already looks ludicrously naive and undercooked. But it does at least exist.
    Starmer's solution was far too generous to people on higher incomes. It really needs to be Sunak's (x4) or similar.
    But everyone of those is a voter. A cut off line package has some of those voters just missing the cut off. The Special financial event we are not allowed to call crisis budget is a Special Political Event too - the pressure is on them not to sink themselves so early in the general election run in.
  • HYUFD said:

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Truss' government also to add a requirement that 60%+ in polls of Scots for at least a year in favour of indyref2 required before any UK government would even consider granting it
    Ooooh, they'll "consider" it at that point? How very generous.
    Imagine if the European Commission totally rigged the rules for a Brexit referendum before “considering” or “allowing” it. Pressure cooker deluxe.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    edited September 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    People waking up to what a dramatic change of government this is. Truss and Kwarzy politics in a very different place than Boris and his chancellors, very very different place to Dave and May and their chancellors, very different to Major and Clarke and the Labour PMs and CoE that followed.

    It will be proper, dry, courage of their convictions Thatcherism.

    From Monday.
    Yes it will most likely be the most economically dry government since Thatcher and Howe. Even more economically Thatcherite than Cameron and Osborne were
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,190

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    Truss' new government will also lift the fracking ban within days

    https://twitter.com/toryboypierce/status/1566075534295146496?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    That first change will require changing multiple parts of employment law - which really does need to be sorted as current employment law is a grade a mess.

    We’ve covered fracking before though - the Uk geology isn’t suitable
    Fracking is an easy win for Truss.

    She lifts any bans but then no one wants to actually do any fracking in UK - a detail that will escape her members.
    It's bizarro post-modern politics. Lifting a fracking ban that doesn't release a single bubble of gas but makes the Conservative right feel good... Why?
    You've answered your own question, right?
  • nico679 said:

    Surely those rumours re Truss dropping the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday are some wind up .

    How on earth is removing that guarantee any sort of vote winner or are the Tories now so arrogant that they think they can get away with anything.

    Truss really believes that the problem with Britain is that British workers don't work hard enough.

    And so many Conservative voters are retired that they won't be affected by this.
  • Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Replying to @Leon from the last thread
    Dystopian indeed. It doesnt take much reading between the lines from a September announcement of a Jan to Mar subsidy of bus fares so people can afford to get to work to work out just how much shit we are in. Expect many more such things being announced, get your freezer stocked and buy a new kettle.
    I invested in 2 very nice hoodies in Scotland. Toasty.

    Yes. I'm surprised the bus policy attracted so little comment.
    It's a major intervention. Of the type which the new PM must have signed off on. It is what they dragged Burnham through court to prevent.
    It's a huge deal.
    And not a harbinger of good at all.
    Pennies compared to the fuel duty cut.

    The Truss government will be fixed firmly in favour of geriatric drivers.
    The ones with backless gloves.
    She could increase the minimum age for a driving license to 65 to get all the 50 year old boy racers in their company BMWs and Audis off the roads, It’s very upsetting for us 70 year olds when all we want to do is tootle along at 30 admiring the scenery.
    Parked in the middle of the road at the Rest and be Thankful, that sort of thing.
    Great food van there. Try the bacon and brie roll.

    Edit: and possibly parked there to avoid the extortionate parking fees at Arrochar.
    My mum used to work at a pub called The Moorings in Arrochar.
    The owners used to give me old singles from the jukebox
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,317
    nico679 said:

    Surely those rumours re Truss dropping the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday are some wind up .

    How on earth is removing that guarantee any sort of vote winner or are the Tories now so arrogant that they think they can get away with anything.

    What worries me is that she might really believe that reforming the UK labour market, one of the least regulated in the western world, is likely to boost GDP and productivity.

    Or maybe she's a sleeper who's been placed by the hard left?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Truss' government also to add a requirement that 60%+ in polls of Scots for at least a year in favour of indyref2 required before any UK government would even consider granting it
    Will be interesting how Starmer responds
    Truss intends to pass that into law, so unless Starmer repeals it that makes a very high threshold even to get to indyref2
    You seem to be such an amateur in politics at times

    Starmer supporting it would see it pass and through the Lords

    His opposition would make it very controversial and just push the conservatives further through the floor in Scotland
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    nico679 said:

    Surely those rumours re Truss dropping the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday are some wind up .

    How on earth is removing that guarantee any sort of vote winner or are the Tories now so arrogant that they think they can get away with anything.

    Copy the brave conviction politics of Lady Thatcher, enjoy her landslides.
  • nico679 said:

    Surely those rumours re Truss dropping the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday are some wind up .

    How on earth is removing that guarantee any sort of vote winner or are the Tories now so arrogant that they think they can get away with anything.

    You will have to wait just 2 years to find out
  • TresTres Posts: 1,536
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    Truss' new government will also lift the fracking ban within days

    https://twitter.com/toryboypierce/status/1566075534295146496?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    That first change will require changing multiple parts of employment law - which really does need to be sorted as current employment law is a grade a mess.

    We’ve covered fracking before though - the Uk geology isn’t suitable
    oi, no experts
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    People waking up to what a dramatic change of government this is. Truss and Kwarzy politics in a very different place than Boris and his chancellors, very very different place to Dave and May and their chancellors, very different to Major and Clarke and the Labour PMs and CoE that followed.

    It will be proper, dry, courage of their convictions Thatcherism.

    From Monday.
    Yes it will most likely be the most economically dry government since Thatcher and Howe. Even more economically Thatcherite than Cameron and Osborne were
    Or than Thatcher was. And completely illiterate with it.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,798
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
    To be blunt, Scottish nationalism already looks pretty toxic to this non-English observer. Like Farageism only with even more dishonesty.
    That's a shame. I think some of the toxic elements are over-represented on PB, which makes sense given it's a forum of political obsessives. And obviously the stupid Yes2 parades (which Sturgeon studiously avoids) don't help in the media.

    Most indy supporters are just fed up with the current situation, look at the Nordic countries with envy, and see independence as a way to that kind of life. I think that's a perfectly reasonable position, particularly over a 50-year timeline.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    edited September 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Sweden Democrats have beaten the Moderates in the last 23 polls.

    If this holds true on the evening of 11 September (the result is known within an hour or two of polling closing), and SD+M+KD+L is greater than S+V+C+MP then we will likely see an extremely unstable minority M+KD government with C&S from SD and L. Probably won’t last 12 months.

    Personally I’m still hoping that PM Magdalena Andersson holds on. I voted C-C-L (national-regional-local) with that aim.

    I really wish that my former party the Moderates had held on to our previous leader Anna Kinberg Batra. There is no way she would have got the party into the guddle that Ulf Kristersson has created.

    Yes but Kristersson might still be PM as even you suggest due to his willingness to deal with the SDs
    … despite his willingness to deal with them.

    Without being willing to accept SD confidence and supply he has zero chance of becoming PM
    That comment displays how Nigel Farage has totally succeeded in rotting Tory self-confidence. “Zero chance”?!? Accept the far right or you have “zero chance”?!?

    The centre-right has a choice: concede to the far right, as the Tories have done, or defeat them at the ballot box. “Zero chance” my arse.
    Sweden has PR, so yes zero chance.

    We don't, so the Tories can still win without needing Farage under FPTP. With PR the Tories would not have won a majority in 2015 and would have needed Farage. Like the Moderates under PR the Tories would normally need the Liberals and/or the Nationalist right for a majority.

    In any case the Social Democrats already do deals with the far left Left Party with no complaints
  • eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    Truss' new government will also lift the fracking ban within days

    https://twitter.com/toryboypierce/status/1566075534295146496?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    That first change will require changing multiple parts of employment law - which really does need to be sorted as current employment law is a grade a mess.

    We’ve covered fracking before though - the Uk geology isn’t suitable
    Fracking is an easy win for Truss.

    She lifts any bans but then no one wants to actually do any fracking in UK - a detail that will escape her members.
    It's bizarro post-modern politics. Lifting a fracking ban that doesn't release a single bubble of gas but makes the Conservative right feel good... Why?
    Drilling for votes, not hydrocarbons.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 555

    I admit I have to be persuaded by her, but at least let her get in office and start the post Johnson age

    I think this is the party's fault for having the leadership election take so long -- it's left a big gap where the result is clear and the only thing left to do is speculate about what the new incumbent will do. And Truss has hardly been being careful to avoid providing fuel for speculation about potential daft policies...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    The Hundred with a surprisingly exciting climax.
    After looking like a cakewalk.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214

    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    People waking up to what a dramatic change of government this is. Truss and Kwarzy politics in a very different place than Boris and his chancellors, very very different place to Dave and May and their chancellors, very different to Major and Clarke and the Labour PMs and CoE that followed.

    It will be proper, dry, courage of their convictions Thatcherism.

    From Monday.
    Err Tuesday after seeing the Queen at Balmoral
    Err Monday. In victory speech. Truss is the Conservative Party leader from Monday.

    Where she walks, from Monday, the Conservative Party walks.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,643
    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

  • HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    Truss' new government will also lift the fracking ban within days

    https://twitter.com/toryboypierce/status/1566075534295146496?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    This is going to be the most hilarious premiership ever. Popcorn bliss.

    For the record, I have 7 weeks paid holiday. Just saying.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    A six.
    And now 5 off 4 needed.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    On the 48 hour working week (FPT) - I signed a thing in my contract that meant this doesn't apply to me. Is that change really a story?

    I expect you got highly paid for working those extra hours, Truss would scrap the 48 hours maximum week even for those on average or low incomes it seems
    You tell them, comrade. General Strike incoming.
    Well at least under the slash tax, slash regulation, increase working hours, take on the unions government Truss looks likely to lead we will see how popular Singapore on Thames UK actually is post Brexit
    It's very exciting to see the seeming resolve of her nascent Government to pursue economic growth.

    Meanwhile, Rishi's £400 energy subsidy will not be considered a reduction in the price of energy, and will therefore not help inflation at all. Thanks Rishi. https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2022/09/02/the-ons-makes-life-more-difficult/
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Minimum turnouts (and 50% absolute vote threshold is just a disguised minimum turnout provision) are terrible for multiple very obvious reasons from the theoretical to the very practical.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,317
    edited September 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Truss' government also to add a requirement that 60%+ in polls of Scots for at least a year in favour of indyref2 required before any UK government would even consider granting it
    Will be interesting how Starmer responds
    Truss intends to pass that into law, so unless Starmer repeals it that makes a very high threshold even to get to indyref2
    You seem to be such an amateur in politics at times

    Starmer supporting it would see it pass and through the Lords

    His opposition would make it very controversial and just push the conservatives further through the floor in Scotland
    What's odd is that it isn't as if the English care very much about Scottish independence. Who is she trying to appeal to with this stuff?. Leaving aside how on earth you legislate for 'opinion polls.' No doubt she'll have something positive on offer for the DUP with regards to the protocol. I wonder if there will be anything for potential Conservative voters?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
    To be blunt, Scottish nationalism already looks pretty toxic to this non-English observer. Like Farageism only with even more dishonesty.
    That's a shame. I think some of the toxic elements are over-represented on PB, which makes sense given it's a forum of political obsessives. And obviously the stupid Yes2 parades (which Sturgeon studiously avoids) don't help in the media.

    Most indy supporters are just fed up with the current situation, look at the Nordic countries with envy, and see independence as a way to that kind of life. I think that's a perfectly reasonable position, particularly over a 50-year timeline.
    Again, you could make the same comments about Brexit and its supporters. Most of them are not xenophobic loons with small brains and massive egos, but the likes of Farage get the attention.

    However, that in itself shapes the debate and puts people off them.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,716
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    People waking up to what a dramatic change of government this is. Truss and Kwarzy politics in a very different place than Boris and his chancellors, very very different place to Dave and May and their chancellors, very different to Major and Clarke and the Labour PMs and CoE that followed.

    It will be proper, dry, courage of their convictions Thatcherism.

    From Monday.
    Yes it will most likely be the most economically dry government since Thatcher and Howe. Even more economically Thatcherite than Cameron and Osborne were
    Or than Thatcher was. And completely illiterate with it.
    Surely someone within Truss’ team is looking at the numbers and thinking that some common sense is needed.

    ..or is it really just a case of “keep the oldies sweet” while shafting everyone else

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 14,025
    Eabhal said:

    On the 48 hour working week (FPT) - I signed a thing in my contract that meant this doesn't apply to me. Is that change really a story?

    In principle that declaration needs to be genuinely voluntary. Not quite sure what would happen if your employer enforced it.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Truss' government also to add a requirement that 60%+ in polls of Scots for at least a year in favour of indyref2 required before any UK government would even consider granting it
    Will be interesting how Starmer responds
    Truss intends to pass that into law, so unless Starmer repeals it that makes a very high threshold even to get to indyref2
    You seem to be such an amateur in politics at times

    Starmer supporting it would see it pass and through the Lords

    His opposition would make it very controversial and just push the conservatives further through the floor in Scotland
    Starmer's opposition is irrelevant as the Tories have a majority.

    If he made clear he would repeal it as PM that will make it harder for him to refuse indyref2, so his problem
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Truss' government also to add a requirement that 60%+ in polls of Scots for at least a year in favour of indyref2 required before any UK government would even consider granting it
    Will be interesting how Starmer responds
    Truss intends to pass that into law, so unless Starmer repeals it that makes a very high threshold even to get to indyref2
    You seem to be such an amateur in politics at times

    Starmer supporting it would see it pass and through the Lords

    His opposition would make it very controversial and just push the conservatives further through the floor in Scotland
    Absolutely right G. Hating the size and heat of the fire already, don’t put more gasoline on the fire.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,716
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
    To be blunt, Scottish nationalism already looks pretty toxic to this non-English observer. Like Farageism only with even more dishonesty.
    That's a shame. I think some of the toxic elements are over-represented on PB, which makes sense given it's a forum of political obsessives. And obviously the stupid Yes2 parades (which Sturgeon studiously avoids) don't help in the media.

    Most indy supporters are just fed up with the current situation, look at the Nordic countries with envy, and see independence as a way to that kind of life. I think that's a perfectly reasonable position, particularly over a 50-year timeline.
    To be honest, you’ve only got to look on Twitter to see the “other” side to Scottish nationalism.

    Though I do agree with your second point re. 50 year timeline. Key point being “time”
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,190
    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    Maybe she'll tell people they need to go down the mines in what would have been their holiday, seeing as we'll need the alternative source of energy.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,643
    Maybe Truss should just say current workers need to be worked to death to keep the Tory core vote happy with their triple lock pensions .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
    To be blunt, Scottish nationalism already looks pretty toxic to this non-English observer. Like Farageism only with even more dishonesty.
    If you can't tell the difference between a left of centre social democratic movement and a Faragist movement, you might want to read up some more, and believe PB and the London media a bit less.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    edited September 2022

    nico679 said:

    Surely those rumours re Truss dropping the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday are some wind up .

    How on earth is removing that guarantee any sort of vote winner or are the Tories now so arrogant that they think they can get away with anything.

    Truss really believes that the problem with Britain is that British workers don't work hard enough.

    And so many Conservative voters are retired that they won't be affected by this.
    Yes but the retired are the Tory core vote, it is voters on average incomes aged 45 to 55 who live in the redwall and Tory held marginal seats who will determine the next general election
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 2,373
    IshmaelZ said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    I will never stop wondering why you specified recent *English* incomers there. Never.
    Because other nationalities respect our right to self determination.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,604

    nico679 said:

    Surely those rumours re Truss dropping the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday are some wind up .

    How on earth is removing that guarantee any sort of vote winner or are the Tories now so arrogant that they think they can get away with anything.

    Copy the brave conviction politics of Lady Thatcher, enjoy her landslides.
    The Tories have been complaining about the Working Time Directive since the Major Govt opted out of it. Blair opted us in. It’s been a political football for years. The one set of EU Regs I’ll sit up and take notice if they talk about getting rid is TUPE. That never seems to come up in all these proposed, so-called, “bonfire of regulations”, which never ceases to surprise me given how it runs against English concepts of contract law. Also s.188 of TULRCA - but that’s been baked into primary legislation so’s harder to shift.
  • HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    Truss' new government will also lift the fracking ban within days

    https://twitter.com/toryboypierce/status/1566075534295146496?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    This is going to be the most hilarious premiership ever. Popcorn bliss.

    For the record, I have 7 weeks paid holiday. Just saying.
    I am sure your workplace has no objections.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    BritNats: you’re not getting your referendum.

    Also BritNats: we’re going to rig your referendum.

    Make your minds up chaps.
    Truss' government also to add a requirement that 60%+ in polls of Scots for at least a year in favour of indyref2 required before any UK government would even consider granting it
    Will be interesting how Starmer responds
    Truss intends to pass that into law, so unless Starmer repeals it that makes a very high threshold even to get to indyref2
    You seem to be such an amateur in politics at times

    Starmer supporting it would see it pass and through the Lords

    His opposition would make it very controversial and just push the conservatives further through the floor in Scotland
    Starmer's opposition is irrelevant as the Tories have a majority.

    If he made clear he would repeal it as PM that will make it harder for him to refuse indyref2, so his problem
    Not sure how much of that majority Truss can count on, and of course it is better for Starmer to be on board but then you are not known for talking sense on Scotland
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    edited September 2022
    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    Not to mention folk have a problem recruiting.
    How does extending hours and removing holidays help when you can't get anyone as it is?
    S Cambs Council trying to move to a 30 hour week because they have no applicants.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,264
    Among the Boris projects to be kicked into the long grass is the national flagship (aka the new royal yacht). Defence sources say building new spy ships to stop Russia meddling with undersea cables come first. "No one wants to pay for the bloody yacht". https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/82f696ea-2ba4-11ed-b39f-ae396665d39a
  • Reminder: at some point, inside information about the count may be leaked.

    Rishi is not very liquid; the price on Liz Truss is a more reliable signal.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    22 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    21 Rishi Sunak 5%
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,798
    edited September 2022

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
    To be blunt, Scottish nationalism already looks pretty toxic to this non-English observer. Like Farageism only with even more dishonesty.
    That's a shame. I think some of the toxic elements are over-represented on PB, which makes sense given it's a forum of political obsessives. And obviously the stupid Yes2 parades (which Sturgeon studiously avoids) don't help in the media.

    Most indy supporters are just fed up with the current situation, look at the Nordic countries with envy, and see independence as a way to that kind of life. I think that's a perfectly reasonable position, particularly over a 50-year timeline.
    To be honest, you’ve only got to look on Twitter to see the “other” side to Scottish nationalism.

    Though I do agree with your second point re. 50 year timeline. Key point being “time”
    Twitter is not Scotland!
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,816
    edited September 2022
    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    It'll never happen. It's just another "Regional pay board" type policy. She either won't go through with it, or she'll announce it and then after the inevitable outcry say she's been misrepresented and cancel it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    edited September 2022
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
    To be blunt, Scottish nationalism already looks pretty toxic to this non-English observer. Like Farageism only with even more dishonesty.
    If you can't tell the difference between a left of centre social democratic movement and a Faragist movement, you might want to read up some more, and believe PB and the London media a bit less.
    Oh, I can. In fact, I used to be quite an admirer of the SNP for just that reason. And I seldom read the London media, so that criticism fails.

    But the SNP is increasingly not different from a Farageist movement. Alarmingly so, in fact.

    It's like the end of Animal Farm.

    Whether its current supporters will ever have this revelation I don't know.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,298
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    Surely those rumours re Truss dropping the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday are some wind up .

    How on earth is removing that guarantee any sort of vote winner or are the Tories now so arrogant that they think they can get away with anything.

    Truss really believes that the problem with Britain is that British workers don't work hard enough.

    And so many Conservative voters are retired that they won't be affected by this.
    Yes but the retired are the Tory core vote, it is voters on average incomes aged 45 to 55 who live in the redwall and Tory held marginal seats who will determine the next general election
    In which case might as well enjoy the next two years.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,356

    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    People waking up to what a dramatic change of government this is. Truss and Kwarzy politics in a very different place than Boris and his chancellors, very very different place to Dave and May and their chancellors, very different to Major and Clarke and the Labour PMs and CoE that followed.

    It will be proper, dry, courage of their convictions Thatcherism.

    From Monday.
    And not contained in the manifesto on which this government was elected.

    "Vote Tory and lose your holidays." Coming to a Labour poster soon if these suggestions are true.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,643
    The Tories need a long time in opposition as they’ve become totally arrogant and think the electorate will swallow anything .

    Just as Trump is a cancer on the USA the current manifestation of the Tories represent a clear and present danger to the UK and need to be removed at the next GE before the UK as we know it ceases to exist .
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,264
    Worrying polling for Truss with 2019 Conservative voters, in tomorrow’s Observer https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/03/the-more-tory-voters-see-of-liz-truss-the-less-they-like-her-polls-show
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,836
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
    To be blunt, Scottish nationalism already looks pretty toxic to this non-English observer. Like Farageism only with even more dishonesty.
    If you can't tell the difference between a left of centre social democratic movement and a Faragist movement, you might want to read up some more, and believe PB and the London media a bit less.
    Oh, I can. In fact, I used to be quite an admirer of the SNP for just that reason.

    But the SNP is increasingly not different from a Farageist movement. Alarmingly so, in fact.

    It's like the end of Animal Farm.

    Whether its current supporters will ever have this revelation I don't know.
    Gone the other way over the last 50 years, actually. But then I was there in Scotland, so what do I know?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,798

    IshmaelZ said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    I will never stop wondering why you specified recent *English* incomers there. Never.
    Because other nationalities respect our right to self determination.
    Don't confuse the Tories for the English.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,673
    Feeling my age. Just watched a documentary about Sid James - then realised that he died 46 years ago.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 14,025
    Eabhal said:

    Good evening

    It seems PB has decided Truss is over before she even takes office and the policies announced

    I have no idea why she thinks JRM and Dorries should be in her cabinet other than some plot to prevent 2 by elections as Johnson sends them to the Lords

    However, I am more restrained as I haven't a clue what she will announce next week, but I would be surprised if she and those around her do not provide an extensive support package for consumers and as importantly businesses, especially small businesses

    A package well targeted and very pro business may well change the narrative and have some red faces on here

    I admit I have to be persuaded by her, but at least let her get in office and start the post Johnson age

    Her poll ratings are poor but even Starmer is only on 29% tonight

    Truth is disenchantment , worry and fear stalks the political class as they attempt to do the impossible and make the cost of living crisis disappear as if it is not real when it is a direct consequence of the war with Russia which only ends when that does

    The polling indeed suggests none of the above is wanted in number 10.
    If Labour are high 30s, low 40s, 29% thinking Starmer will be best PM suggests their vote is shallow.
    Having said that, its better than the blues right now!
    Everybody's is better than the conservatives who have taken leave of their senses, indeed the only good is Johnson leaving no 10 on Tuesday
    Theyve got a bugger of a job to do to hold it all together this winter, i fear for what might happen. I'm trying to be hopeful but also feeling rather bleakly pessimistic. I just think its too big. For anyone. Starmers intervention already looks ludicrously naive and undercooked. But it does at least exist.
    Starmer's solution was far too generous to people on higher incomes. It really needs to be Sunak's (x4) or similar.
    Starmer calls this correctly in terms of scale, I think. May not actually be enough. Also true that massive subsidy can't go on indefinitely.

    Sunak's plan is woefully inadequate, over-complicated and creates too many edge cases. If you want to taper the support the best and easiest way to do this is to cap fuel prices for everyone and claw some or all of it back through higher income tax rates. That's the way to do it, but probably not politically acceptable.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,756
    edited September 2022
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    I have no problem with that if it is introduced in conjunction with a rule that only those living full time in Scotland for at least 10 years can vote. No second homers and recent English incomers can vote.
    Just the English ones? Steady there, Scotch Farage.

    The residency rule is something the SNP should avoid debating at all costs. Shut that down immediately, otherwise the Unionists will (rightly) cry toxic nationalism.
    To be blunt, Scottish nationalism already looks pretty toxic to this non-English observer. Like Farageism only with even more dishonesty.
    If you can't tell the difference between a left of centre social democratic movement and a Faragist movement, you might want to read up some more, and believe PB and the London media a bit less.
    Oh, I can. In fact, I used to be quite an admirer of the SNP for just that reason.

    But the SNP is increasingly not different from a Farageist movement. Alarmingly so, in fact.

    It's like the end of Animal Farm.

    Whether its current supporters will ever have this revelation I don't know.
    Gone the other way over the last 50 years, actually. But then I was there in Scotland, so what do I know?
    And I have been watching from Wales and the borders over the last 15 years.

    And I think you haven't noticed what's happening. Or don't want to see it.

    But there, why do I argue? Rationality plays no part in this debate and hasn't for many years.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MISTY said:

    I wonder why Father Calv crowbarred paedophillia into a tweet about transgender issues?



    Only joking, I know exactly why he did!

    Actually there is genuine concern about why some people may be keen to encourage the use of puberty blockers. It is worthy of consideration.
    Genuine concerns about x, words to define the age we live in.

    I know we don't see eye to eye on much UD, but Babylon Berlin is utterly FAB and thanks again for the recommendation.
    👍 Cool. I admit to have becoming totally fanboi about the series to the point of being evangelical, but glad if I've made at least one convert!
    I liked Rings of Power a lot. Am I alone here?

    First of all, the elements we can all agree on? There’s nothing wrong with the excellent soundtrack and score, use of music and sound was good. And the Title Sequence is quite excellent too. I enjoyed the visual spectacle - the hidden Hobbit village coming alive was very good.

    Pacing we could argue over. I thought the first episode had a good pace. There was discussion here last week, horror tales tend be short, if it’s long then it becomes more than horror - similar here in that making Rings of Power have pace, action and suspense it has to move away from pure Tolkienism - indeed hiding from, and the battle with the big Orc, sequence Spielberg would have been proud of.

    And whilst some of the script was a little lame, some performances were very good. Markella Kavenagh steals acting honours as adventurous Hobbit Nori - Ismael Córdova as buttoned up Elf Arondir likeable too.

    Too early to say about Characterisation just two episodes in. Accents. Maybe a bit like Derry Girls doing Midsummer Nights Dream at times?

    If Tolkien purists were to argue it’s not true to Tolkien enough, I would argue it builds upon what Tolkien offered, mankind fighting for Morgoth so held in suspicion for example. For purists I’m reminded about what Stu from Romford said about ism’s earlier today. How do the purists know that the man himself wouldn’t watch this and enjoy it?

    Loved Galadriel’s warrior eye make up when she took down the troll, I’m going to do mine like that. 😍
    You're also the only remaining fan of Yorkshire County Cricket Club. That's a warning light about your judgment :smile:

    What would Tolkien have thought? Well, there are a couple of answers to that. First of all, he really hated people making changes to his ideas. In fact he vetoed several possible film productions of the Lord of the rings because they wanted to alter plot points, commenting, 'I don't mind people leaving things out, but I wish they wouldn't change things.' Therefore, we can probably say that he would be pretty pissed off with what's been done here in terms of his Legendarium.

    However, there is another side to this. The character of Galadriel in particular changed a great deal as he was writing about her. So, for example, in the fellowship of the ring she describes herself as having passed over the mountains of the fall of Nargothrond or Gondolin to join Celeborn who is that point appears to have been a Nandorin elf. However by the time he wrote the appendices he changed his mind and Celeborn and Galadriel ran the kingdom of south Lindon for many years after the end of the second age having met in Doriath.

    Yet another version of her backstory in unfinished tales shows her and Celeborn as the Lord and Lady of Eregion having founded it sometime after the end of the first stage.

    Now, anyone of these could make an excellent story which makes it deeply puzzling that the writers have decided to ditch the whole bloody lot and come up with something totally different but wildly inconsistent with the texts and in fact not very convincing on the first couple of episodes.

    Which is roughly why I'm not very impressed with them.
    The thing is: I really don't care what Tolkien would have thought. I want an entertaining story, well told. Perhaps there were reasons for the changes; perhaps not. It's a series *inspired* by his writing, not a word-for-word reciting of the story.

    In the same way the TV series 'Elementary' had very little connection with Conan Doyle's stories, but was still far more faithful than the BBC's Sherlock.
    Perhaps. But so far, I haven't found this especially entertaining. Certainly less so than any of the ideas they could have picked up and run with from Tolkien's writing.

    I've watched an episode and a half. It's unlikely I'll watch the rest.
    What’s all this I’m missing? I only popped on for the Opinium.

    “ You're also the only remaining fan of Yorkshire County Cricket Club. That's a warning light about your judgment “

    Who woke you up grumpy old Gandalf. 🤣.

    Well I’m enjoying how they have made it suspenseful, mysterious and a visual and auditory charm to wallow in. And that’s even before the characters and storyline builds.

    Most of Tolkiens work is a historical and mythical mishmash anyway, hardly original with so much copied from the Edda and then changed to be or mean something else, so Tolkien purists can’t be too Poe faced about the effort put in here in my honest opinion.
    The only bit that really annoyed me so far was the implied trans (ha) oceanic swimming thing.

    That and maybe the dropping the Ban of the Valar on certain people rocking up in Valinor.

    The way the Two Trees and their destruction was done was very fine - clever use of a shadow to suggest Morgoth, without getting into the issue of them not having rights to the First Age writings.

    Some interesting ideas in the story - will be interesting to see where they go with it. And how the Lord Of Gifts gets brought in…
    Rings of Power *spolier alert*

    Has he (your Lord Of Gifts) literally crashed in via meatorite? Or have they invented a pre Gandalf type Gandalf 🤔
  • Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss considering not replacing the 48 hour maximum working week in UK law when all remaining EU regulations are scrapped next year and also not renewing the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday a year plus Bank Holidays. This is the first sign of the firmly Thatcherite government Truss will lead in economic terms

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1566018961875079169?s=20&t=bcYiechy4LAcRQXuuFY1vw

    People waking up to what a dramatic change of government this is. Truss and Kwarzy politics in a very different place than Boris and his chancellors, very very different place to Dave and May and their chancellors, very different to Major and Clarke and the Labour PMs and CoE that followed.

    It will be proper, dry, courage of their convictions Thatcherism.

    From Monday.
    And not contained in the manifesto on which this government was elected.

    "Vote Tory and lose your holidays." Coming to a Labour poster soon if these suggestions are true.
    If they're not in the manifesto, won't Truss struggle to get any controversial laws through the Lords?

    What exactly are the constraints and timeframes there?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357
    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    Not to mention folk have a problem recruiting.
    How does extending hours and removing holidays help when you can't get anyone as it is?
    S Cambs Council trying to move to a 30 hour week because they have no applicants.
    Truss will simply tell those on UC they either take whatever job they get or get sent down a mine or fracking for gas or lose all their benefits
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,798
    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Good evening

    It seems PB has decided Truss is over before she even takes office and the policies announced

    I have no idea why she thinks JRM and Dorries should be in her cabinet other than some plot to prevent 2 by elections as Johnson sends them to the Lords

    However, I am more restrained as I haven't a clue what she will announce next week, but I would be surprised if she and those around her do not provide an extensive support package for consumers and as importantly businesses, especially small businesses

    A package well targeted and very pro business may well change the narrative and have some red faces on here

    I admit I have to be persuaded by her, but at least let her get in office and start the post Johnson age

    Her poll ratings are poor but even Starmer is only on 29% tonight

    Truth is disenchantment , worry and fear stalks the political class as they attempt to do the impossible and make the cost of living crisis disappear as if it is not real when it is a direct consequence of the war with Russia which only ends when that does

    The polling indeed suggests none of the above is wanted in number 10.
    If Labour are high 30s, low 40s, 29% thinking Starmer will be best PM suggests their vote is shallow.
    Having said that, its better than the blues right now!
    Everybody's is better than the conservatives who have taken leave of their senses, indeed the only good is Johnson leaving no 10 on Tuesday
    Theyve got a bugger of a job to do to hold it all together this winter, i fear for what might happen. I'm trying to be hopeful but also feeling rather bleakly pessimistic. I just think its too big. For anyone. Starmers intervention already looks ludicrously naive and undercooked. But it does at least exist.
    Starmer's solution was far too generous to people on higher incomes. It really needs to be Sunak's (x4) or similar.
    Starmer calls this correctly in terms of scale, I think. May not actually be enough. Also true that massive subsidy can't go on indefinitely.

    Sunak's plan is woefully inadequate, over-complicated and creates too many edge cases. If you want to taper the support the best and easiest way to do this is to cap fuel prices for everyone and claw some or all of it back through higher income tax rates. That's the way to do it, but probably not politically acceptable.
    All good points. I was speaking from a pure income distribution basis from that analysis last week (forget the source).
  • HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    Not to mention folk have a problem recruiting.
    How does extending hours and removing holidays help when you can't get anyone as it is?
    S Cambs Council trying to move to a 30 hour week because they have no applicants.
    Truss will simply tell those on UC they either take whatever job they get or get sent down a mine or fracking for gas or lose all their benefits
    How does she do that without new laws?

    From Thatcher to Violet Elizabeth Bott.
  • HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    Not to mention folk have a problem recruiting.
    How does extending hours and removing holidays help when you can't get anyone as it is?
    S Cambs Council trying to move to a 30 hour week because they have no applicants.
    Truss will simply tell those on UC they either take whatever job they get or get sent down a mine or fracking for gas or lose all their benefits
    You hope she says something as idiotic as that as you hate Johnson’s eviction and want Truss to fail

    And you as a representative of the party fills me with dread with comments like that

    You are heading for Corbyn style annihilation and deserve it
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,264
    TRUSS CABINET REVEALED
    Based on multiple converstions with aides and ministers, this is my current understanding of the Truss cabinet. Caveat: the white board is not finalised 1/ https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1566166456164810752/photo/1
  • nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    It's vote Tory so that those poorer than you are forced to work harder so that the prices you pay for goods and services are lower.

    There's quite a lot of votes in that. Lots of workers have more annual leave than the statutory minimum, and will be confident the change won't lead to them losing holidays.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,650
    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Good evening

    It seems PB has decided Truss is over before she even takes office and the policies announced

    I have no idea why she thinks JRM and Dorries should be in her cabinet other than some plot to prevent 2 by elections as Johnson sends them to the Lords

    However, I am more restrained as I haven't a clue what she will announce next week, but I would be surprised if she and those around her do not provide an extensive support package for consumers and as importantly businesses, especially small businesses

    A package well targeted and very pro business may well change the narrative and have some red faces on here

    I admit I have to be persuaded by her, but at least let her get in office and start the post Johnson age

    Her poll ratings are poor but even Starmer is only on 29% tonight

    Truth is disenchantment , worry and fear stalks the political class as they attempt to do the impossible and make the cost of living crisis disappear as if it is not real when it is a direct consequence of the war with Russia which only ends when that does

    The polling indeed suggests none of the above is wanted in number 10.
    If Labour are high 30s, low 40s, 29% thinking Starmer will be best PM suggests their vote is shallow.
    Having said that, its better than the blues right now!
    Everybody's is better than the conservatives who have taken leave of their senses, indeed the only good is Johnson leaving no 10 on Tuesday
    Theyve got a bugger of a job to do to hold it all together this winter, i fear for what might happen. I'm trying to be hopeful but also feeling rather bleakly pessimistic. I just think its too big. For anyone. Starmers intervention already looks ludicrously naive and undercooked. But it does at least exist.
    Starmer's solution was far too generous to people on higher incomes. It really needs to be Sunak's (x4) or similar.
    Starmer calls this correctly in terms of scale, I think. May not actually be enough. Also true that massive subsidy can't go on indefinitely.

    Sunak's plan is woefully inadequate, over-complicated and creates too many edge cases. If you want to taper the support the best and easiest way to do this is to cap fuel prices for everyone and claw some or all of it back through higher income tax rates. That's the way to do it, but probably not politically acceptable.
    If his propossl exceeds whatever Truss anounces he is closer on calling the scale correctly but will still be woefully short of what is required to avert disaster and only looks at the next 6 months. Its completely damning of the Tories response so far that Starmers plan has not been dismissed as an expensive sticking plaster for the amputation ward.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,716
    Scott_xP said:

    TRUSS CABINET REVEALED
    Based on multiple converstions with aides and ministers, this is my current understanding of the Truss cabinet. Caveat: the white board is not finalised 1/ https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1566166456164810752/photo/1

    I still can’t understand the political optics of Rees-Mogg at business. That in itself is political suicide
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,816
    Scott_xP said:

    TRUSS CABINET REVEALED
    Based on multiple converstions with aides and ministers, this is my current understanding of the Truss cabinet. Caveat: the white board is not finalised 1/ https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1566166456164810752/photo/1

    Kwasi Kwarteng has very woke views of the Empire. I look forward to him abandoning them.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/30/ghosts-of-empire-what-kwasi-kwartengs-book-tells-us-about-him
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 14,025
    Pulling that stunt didn't pay off the last time in the end, and it won't if they try it again now.

    Let's say independence is supported by 49%; opposed by 30% with 20% no opinion. Is the 30% going to prevail?
  • ...

    Scott_xP said:

    TRUSS CABINET REVEALED
    Based on multiple converstions with aides and ministers, this is my current understanding of the Truss cabinet. Caveat: the white board is not finalised 1/ https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1566166456164810752/photo/1

    I still can’t understand the political optics of Rees-Mogg at business. That in itself is political suicide
    Rees Mogg is a combative Minister. If he's being appointed, it indicates that BEIS is being lined up for a (well-deserved imo) kick up the bum.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 9,214
    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    TRUSS CABINET REVEALED
    Based on multiple converstions with aides and ministers, this is my current understanding of the Truss cabinet. Caveat: the white board is not finalised 1/ https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1566166456164810752/photo/1

    Kwasi Kwarteng has very woke views of the Empire. I look forward to him abandoning them.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/30/ghosts-of-empire-what-kwasi-kwartengs-book-tells-us-about-him
    But an interesting promotion for James Cleverley.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,357

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    Not to mention folk have a problem recruiting.
    How does extending hours and removing holidays help when you can't get anyone as it is?
    S Cambs Council trying to move to a 30 hour week because they have no applicants.
    Truss will simply tell those on UC they either take whatever job they get or get sent down a mine or fracking for gas or lose all their benefits
    You hope she says something as idiotic as that as you hate Johnson’s eviction and want Truss to fail

    And you as a representative of the party fills me with dread with comments like that

    You are heading for Corbyn style annihilation and deserve it
    You do realise I was being sarcastic.

    Though given Truss' expected first acts I would not be surprised if it was not a million miles off
  • CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    TRUSS CABINET REVEALED
    Based on multiple converstions with aides and ministers, this is my current understanding of the Truss cabinet. Caveat: the white board is not finalised 1/ https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1566166456164810752/photo/1

    Kwasi Kwarteng has very woke views of the Empire. I look forward to him abandoning them.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/30/ghosts-of-empire-what-kwasi-kwartengs-book-tells-us-about-him
    Nothing to do with his views on the Empire, but I'm not overjoyed at him being lined up for the COTE job.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    Not to mention folk have a problem recruiting.
    How does extending hours and removing holidays help when you can't get anyone as it is?
    S Cambs Council trying to move to a 30 hour week because they have no applicants.
    Truss will simply tell those on UC they either take whatever job they get or get sent down a mine or fracking for gas or lose all their benefits
    You hope she says something as idiotic as that as you hate Johnson’s eviction and want Truss to fail

    And you as a representative of the party fills me with dread with comments like that

    You are heading for Corbyn style annihilation and deserve it
    You do realise I was being sarcastic.

    Though given Truss' expected first acts I would not be surprised if it was not a million miles off
    With you - no - and you compound it with your last sentence

    You want Truss to fail and it is very obvious in many of your posts
  • HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    Not to mention folk have a problem recruiting.
    How does extending hours and removing holidays help when you can't get anyone as it is?
    S Cambs Council trying to move to a 30 hour week because they have no applicants.
    Truss will simply tell those on UC they either take whatever job they get or get sent down a mine or fracking for gas or lose all their benefits
    You hope she says something as idiotic as that as you hate Johnson’s eviction and want Truss to fail

    And you as a representative of the party fills me with dread with comments like that

    You are heading for Corbyn style annihilation and deserve it
    That's unfair; people can forsee things without wanting them to happen. The confusion of "what I think will probably happen" and "what I want to happen" is the sort of magical thinking that underpins Trumpism and some of the aspects of UK politics that make me despair.

    (Seriously. People have drawn convincing connections between the "name it and claim it" strand of evangelicalism and the triumph of Trump.)

    All the evidence we have of Truss's views on economics points to her being so dry that, if she were a Martini, people would be flocking to drink her. If she were a desert, there would be a disaster appeal to support the desperate people living there. Getting rid of protections for workers is an electorally dumb idea, but also the kind of thing that an idealogue might do, given two years and a seventy seat majority.

    Pointing that out doesn't mean that anyone wants Truss to fail. Just that she is very likely to do so. Unless she reverse ferrets in the next 48 hours.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,423
    nico679 said:

    Surely those rumours re Truss dropping the guaranteed 4 weeks holiday are some wind up .

    How on earth is removing that guarantee any sort of vote winner or are the Tories now so arrogant that they think they can get away with anything.

    If anything people should have more holidays not less.
  • FF43 said:

    Pulling that stunt didn't pay off the last time in the end, and it won't if they try it again now.

    Let's say independence is supported by 49%; opposed by 30% with 20% no opinion. Is the 30% going to prevail?
    If Independence requires the support of 50% of the electorate there's no point in anyone bothering to turn out to vote against it. The result would be a very negative campaign because voters wouldn't need to be encouraged to vote no, just not to bother to vote.
  • HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    Not to mention folk have a problem recruiting.
    How does extending hours and removing holidays help when you can't get anyone as it is?
    S Cambs Council trying to move to a 30 hour week because they have no applicants.
    Truss will simply tell those on UC they either take whatever job they get or get sent down a mine or fracking for gas or lose all their benefits
    You hope she says something as idiotic as that as you hate Johnson’s eviction and want Truss to fail

    And you as a representative of the party fills me with dread with comments like that

    You are heading for Corbyn style annihilation and deserve it
    That's unfair; people can forsee things without wanting them to happen. The confusion of "what I think will probably happen" and "what I want to happen" is the sort of magical thinking that underpins Trumpism and some of the aspects of UK politics that make me despair.

    (Seriously. People have drawn convincing connections between the "name it and claim it" strand of evangelicalism and the triumph of Trump.)

    All the evidence we have of Truss's views on economics points to her being so dry that, if she were a Martini, people would be flocking to drink her. If she were a desert, there would be a disaster appeal to support the desperate people living there. Getting rid of protections for workers is an electorally dumb idea, but also the kind of thing that an idealogue might do, given two years and a seventy seat majority.

    Pointing that out doesn't mean that anyone wants Truss to fail. Just that she is very likely to do so. Unless she reverse ferrets in the next 48 hours.
    @HYUFD cannot accept Johnson’s rejection and simply has not come to terms with Truss taking office from him

    I doubt he ever will
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    Removing peoples guaranteed 4 weeks holiday seems insane . Not sure vote Tory to lose your holiday rights is going to be a winning slogan .

    Not to mention folk have a problem recruiting.
    How does extending hours and removing holidays help when you can't get anyone as it is?
    S Cambs Council trying to move to a 30 hour week because they have no applicants.
    Truss will simply tell those on UC they either take whatever job they get or get sent down a mine or fracking for gas or lose all their benefits
    You hope she says something as idiotic as that as you hate Johnson’s eviction and want Truss to fail

    And you as a representative of the party fills me with dread with comments like that

    You are heading for Corbyn style annihilation and deserve it
    You do realise I was being sarcastic.

    Though given Truss' expected first acts I would not be surprised if it was not a million miles off
    With you - no - and you compound it with your last sentence

    You want Truss to fail and it is very obvious in many of your posts
    HYUFD is dire on Truss. It's sad.
This discussion has been closed.