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Trump down in the WH2024 betting after the Mar-a Lago raid – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited August 2022 in General
imageTrump down in the WH2024 betting after the Mar-a Lago raid – politicalbetting.com

The huge news in American politics this week has of course been the raid by FBI agents on Donald Trump’s home in Florida. It is being suggested that they were looking for nuclear codes in the residence and other linked data that Trump acquired when he was President. If this is case it would be in breach of strong legal rules about these being removed from the White House.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • First unlike Trump
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Good
  • Betfair next prime minister
    1.11 Liz Truss 90%
    10 Rishi Sunak 10%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.1 Liz Truss 91%
    10 Rishi Sunak 10%
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America


  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Lay for GOP nomination, back for president (as he'll 3rd party run?)
  • The Great Orange should get used to tossing the salad for the rest of his life.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    edited August 2022
    The raid is politically neutral. Trump plays the victim, the Right claims persecution, the Left touts no one is above investigation, and the DOJ/FBI can show true impartiality when they don't prosecute It all cancels out. Everyone wins so no one wins.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,699

    The Great Orange should get used to tossing the salad for the rest of his life.


    Didn’t know what that meant until I saw one of those American prison documentaries on YouTube when I was working away.

    🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
  • Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    LOCK HIM UP!

    Looks like the GOP are abandoning him as well.

    Does it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,727
    Taz said:

    The Great Orange should get used to tossing the salad for the rest of his life.


    Didn’t know what that meant until I saw one of those American prison documentaries on YouTube when I was working away.

    🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
    Too much information...
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    Curse of the last thread.....

    FPT

    The Eurovision cities shortlist being released today has led to a second media appearance for the Ukraine flag that's currently hanging in my window. It's on the ITV News website after appearing on the BBC News website back in June as a Press Association photo.
  • LOCK HIM UP!

    Looks like the GOP are abandoning him as well.

    Does it?
    So a dozen of House Republicans planned to hit the news this morning or have press conferences regarding the search warrant executed on Donald Trump have canceled all appearances. As the Department of Justice plans to unseal the search warrant at 3pm today.

    https://twitter.com/FordJohnathan5/status/1558060633492520967
  • Taz said:

    The Great Orange should get used to tossing the salad for the rest of his life.


    Didn’t know what that meant until I saw one of those American prison documentaries on YouTube when I was working away.

    🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
    Once you hear about it you never forget it, no matter how much you try.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    Vile. The idea that if you aren't loudly and performatively pro-Israel and pro-settlements, you must be Adolf.

    It is extremely easy to criticise the Israeli government and the settlement policy without drifting into any anti-semitism tropes or nonsensical views on neo-imperialism or whatever the general worldview of the loonier side of things is focused on. Sure, fringe idiots may still make such a claim, but it will be seen as ridiculous.
    In theory, you're right, In practice, however, there's a whole load of folk out there who are determined to paint any criticism of the Israeli government, and in particular its treatment of the Palestinians, as anti-semitic even when there's absolutely no such tropes or neo-imperialist guff about such criticisms. It rather sounds like Liz Truss may be one of these folk.
    She might be, but people who are most definitely antisemitic also use that excuse as cover.

    All we can do is judge each occasion as it occurs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Trump will be fine. Why would this be the line, assuming he is even ever convicted?
  • Taz said:

    The Great Orange should get used to tossing the salad for the rest of his life.


    Didn’t know what that meant until I saw one of those American prison documentaries on YouTube when I was working away.

    🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
    Once you hear about it you never forget it, no matter how much you try.
    Please tell me it's not what Frasier Crane was singing about. Even if it was.

    I don't think I could cope.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
  • Taz said:

    The Great Orange should get used to tossing the salad for the rest of his life.


    Didn’t know what that meant until I saw one of those American prison documentaries on YouTube when I was working away.

    🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
    Once you hear about it you never forget it, no matter how much you try.
    Please tell me it's not what Frasier Crane was singing about. Even if it was.

    I don't think I could cope.
    There's a distinction between tossing the salad and tossed salads and scrambled eggs.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,836
    Yep I think my longtime call and associated betting position are going to prove on and in the money respectively - Donald Trump will not be regaining the White House.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,439
    Alistair said:

    Lay for GOP nomination, back for president (as he'll 3rd party run?)

    The opposite, if anything.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    Really? The religious strike me as much less likely to quickly change their positioning, whereas many of those now enthusiastically persuing many of the woker things you pinpoint were pretty unwoke even 10 years ago, and there are still voices in their ranks speaking against the loonier stuff.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,727
    DougSeal said:

    The raid is politically neutral. Trump plays the victim, the Right claims persecution, the Left touts no one is above investigation, and the DOJ/FBI can show true impartiality when they don't prosecute It all cancels out. Everyone wins so no one wins.

    What happens if they have found the nuclear codes?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,752
    FPT
    IshmaelZ Posts: 19,116
    3:35PM
    DavidL said:
    » show previous quotes
    To take one very obvious example by the same logic the fact that in almost every culture women have a better life expectancy than men must conclusively prove that society is inherently biased against men and fails to recognise inherent female privilege, that any suggestion that women are disadvantaged or ever have been disadvantaged is a failure to recognise the structual biases that cause men to die at an earlier age.

    It is, quite frankly, both mad and depressing.

    @IshmaelZ said:
    So you really think that black people are *biologically* less well able than whites and Asians to be educated so as to become competent doctors, and that there is inherent white privilege here which qwe should just put up with cos there is nothing to be done about it?
    @DavidL says
    No, of course I don't. What I do say is that the answer to that problem is to look at the societal issues that result in that under performance and seek to address them. Which is not easy. But the answer is not to appoint doctors who come from a minority who are, bluntly, not up to the rather difficult job.

    30 odd years ago someone noticed that sheriffs were male, pale and stale. This, of course, reflected the profession that they had gained the requisite experience in. The answer was to appoint many female sheriffs. In my experience female solicitors, such as my wife, hated this because along with many excellent appointments they also appointed various incompetent female sheriffs who gave female sheriffs a bad name. Of course, they also appointed a lot of seriously incompetent male sheriffs too but they did not stand out so much amongst the profession. Those I spoke to wanted female Sheriffs to be appointed on merit, given a fair and even crack of the whip and an equal chance.

    Now, 30 odd years on, the profession is becoming increasingly female dominated as is the bench, albeit 20 years or so behind. The focus now is on whether there are sufficient minorities and we are in danger of making the same mistakes again.

    As a society we aspire to true equality of opportunity and rightly so. That means that those who face structural problems, whether of poverty, social breakdown, poor schooling or whatever should indeed be helped but the ideal that all are selected on merit is a really important principle and should not be abandoned, whether for gender or racial reasons.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America


    I suspect you will get your wish of a radical hard right government. But it won't save America, it will destroy it.

    Once Trump - or Trumpite - politicians retake power, they will never relinquish it. We saw the failed farcical coup in January. They will be better organised next time.

    And what a country they will build. Remove rights for women. Remove rights for us gayers and for non-Christians and for other unwanted minorities.

    It won't be woke. Which you will support. But it will be fascist. Which you won't. All hail Gilead.
    America is either heading for Cultural Marxism, or for Hard Right Francoism (it's not quite Fascism, but I agree it is close)

    Which is better? It's like choosing a hammer to the bollocks or a knife in the eyes

    I'd go for the hammering of my testicles - the Republicans - as I could survive a hammer to the cullions and life would be bearable albeit diminished. If I voted Democrat - took a knife in both eyes - I'd be permanently blind. That's worse

    Neither is ideal



  • TazTaz Posts: 10,699
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited August 2022

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I'm no fan of much of what I consider the loopier obsessions of the american left, or attempts to transplant those obsessions unchanged here. But that or the Trump party? Many of whom are worse than him because they believe it more? It isn't a hard choice. I believe Leon has said similarly around the time of the Biden/Trump contest.

    At worse the stuff Leon raises is a longer term issue to be concerned by. The Trump party are a genuine danger right now to fundamental issues of law and governance.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    The raid is politically neutral. Trump plays the victim, the Right claims persecution, the Left touts no one is above investigation, and the DOJ/FBI can show true impartiality when they don't prosecute It all cancels out. Everyone wins so no one wins.

    What happens if they have found the nuclear codes?
    They got changed at midday on 20 January 2021 if I understand correctly. I think that's a bit of a red herring.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    Read that essay on Wokeness. The Democrats are the bigger menace, remarkably

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,547

    LOCK HIM UP!

    Looks like the GOP are abandoning him as well.

    Does it?
    So a dozen of House Republicans planned to hit the news this morning or have press conferences regarding the search warrant executed on Donald Trump have canceled all appearances. As the Department of Justice plans to unseal the search warrant at 3pm today.

    https://twitter.com/FordJohnathan5/status/1558060633492520967
    Not sure about that.

    That's just about them having the rug pulled out from under their planned rants about the FBI's inexplicable raid.
    Garland called their bluff by saying it was in the public interest for the full details of the warrant to be published, and that he's give Trump a day to respond. Trump took the bait and said publish.

    Roll on 3pm.

    Which way the GOP jump now is yet to be determined.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,699

    Taz said:

    The Great Orange should get used to tossing the salad for the rest of his life.


    Didn’t know what that meant until I saw one of those American prison documentaries on YouTube when I was working away.

    🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
    Once you hear about it you never forget it, no matter how much you try.
    I’d never even heard of Jell-O before.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,836
    Alistair said:

    Lay for GOP nomination, back for president (as he'll 3rd party run?)

    Back to run. Lay for the GOP nom. Lay for President.

    The road to riches.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,755

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I think there are some Southern legislatures that would like to reinstate anti miscegenation laws but they must know thats a dead letter>
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,547
    (FPT)
    Leon said:

    No wonder the Chinese are confident

    The West is busy damaging itself, and the lead nation in the West, the USA, is practically pouring gasoline over itself, while playing with a Zippo

    When they come to write the History of what Woke did to us all, I wonder if the Chinese will be at the bottom of it, at least in part. You can get great nations to self harm, if you know the right buttons to push. American guilt over slavery is a big fat red button

    See also: Scottish Nationalism. And, to be fair, Brexit, quite probably (even if I believe in it, I imagine Xi and Putin approve of it, simply as it is another disruptor)

    Think of it as ... a pregnancy ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,699

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    Read that essay on Wokeness. The Democrats are the bigger menace, remarkably

    Only to with someone lacking the IQ God gave pistachio nuts.
    The Democrats are terrible, truly awful, but if I was in the US I’d vote for them over the republicans in a heartbeat
  • .
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I think there are some Southern legislatures that would like to reinstate anti miscegenation laws but they must know thats a dead letter>
    One of them said something like 'They said that about overturning Roe'.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,755
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    According to Fox News latest poll (and it is pretty much the gold standard) the Democrats only lead the Republicans by 11% on abortion. By contrast, the Republicans lead by 15% on inflation and prices, and even by 3% on gun rights.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,522

    .

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I think there are some Southern legislatures that would like to reinstate anti miscegenation laws but they must know thats a dead letter>
    One of them said something like 'They said that about overturning Roe'.
    The difference is that Roe's constitutional backing was gossamer thin, at best, whereas anti-miscegenation laws would clearly fall foul of the 14th Amendment.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - jusg nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotitshow
    Really? The religious strike me as much less likely to quickly change their positioning, whereas many of those now enthusiastically persuing many of the woker things you pinpoint were pretty unwoke even 10 years ago, and there are still voices in their ranks speaking against the loonier stuff.
    "and there are still voices in their ranks speaking against the loonier stuff."

    Wrong. There aren't. This is the whole point. Wokeness is so dangerous because it not only tramples over values like Free Speech, but it does not tolerate any dissent at all. You are not ALLOWED to express a different opinion. It gets you sacked. Cancelled. Finished. Everyone Must Agree



    From that essay:

    "On February 24, 2021, Ed Livingston, deputy editor for clinical reviews and education at the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), recorded a podcast with Mitch Katz, president of New York City Health and Hospitals, called “Structural Racism for Doctors—What Is It?” Livingston, a UCLA surgeon, asked Katz to define structural racism. Katz gave as examples the routing of diesel trucks through poor neighborhoods and disparities in access to top-level medical care.

    "Livingston responded that Katz had described a “very real” problem: impoverished neighborhoods with poor quality of life and little opportunity, where most residents are black and Hispanic. Livingston agreed with the urgency of making sure that all people “have equal opportunities to become successful.” His only quibble was with the current emphasis on “racism,” which “might be hurting” the cause of racial equality, he said. Livingston had been taught to revile discrimination and yet was being told that he was racist. The focus, as Livingston saw it, should be on socioeconomic disparities, not alleged racial animus.

    After the podcast became an instant totem of white supremacy, JAMA disappeared it from the web. Livingston himself was disappeared from JAMA shortly thereafter. (Back at his home base at the UCLA medical school, he faced a show trial from fellow faculty members.) JAMA’s editor-in-chief Howard Bauchner, a professor of pediatrics and public health at Boston University, apparently sensed that he might be next on the chopping block and started issuing serial apologies. The disappeared podcast, Bauchner declared, was “inaccurate, offensive, hurtful, and inconsistent with the standards of JAMA.” JAMA would be “instituting changes that will address and prevent such failures from happening again”—a “failure” being defined as deviation from racial justice orthodoxy.....

    JAMA was once a leading forum for physicians and other scientists to present research to their peers. Now JAMA’s overseers regard a fundamental component of the scientific method—debate—as out of bounds, at least regarding the diversity agenda.,,. No disagreement is tolerated.

    Meanwhile, Bauchner’s efforts to distance himself from the “offensive” dialogue were not bearing fruit.... By June 2021, Bauchner, too, was out, even though, as he ruefully observed, he “did not write or even see the tweet, or create the podcast."

    This is Maoism. Onethink
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,755

    .

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I think there are some Southern legislatures that would like to reinstate anti miscegenation laws but they must know thats a dead letter>
    One of them said something like 'They said that about overturning Roe'.
    Roe was always on weak ground (and the Kansas vote suggests that actually ending the constitutional right to abortion might not make a lot of difference at State level). The reasoning behind Bird v Loving is a lot stronger.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,779
    Just to echo the posts on the last thread, Lothian, Moray, Aberdeenshire all looking extraordinarily dry at the mo (from recent travels). I've taken to watering the newly planted trees at work - they're pretty much dead, but birches are pretty resilient.

    There is also a big wildfire out at West Calder at the mo. It's not just England.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    DavidL said:

    FPT
    IshmaelZ Posts: 19,116
    3:35PM
    DavidL said:
    » show previous quotes
    To take one very obvious example by the same logic the fact that in almost every culture women have a better life expectancy than men must conclusively prove that society is inherently biased against men and fails to recognise inherent female privilege, that any suggestion that women are disadvantaged or ever have been disadvantaged is a failure to recognise the structual biases that cause men to die at an earlier age.

    It is, quite frankly, both mad and depressing.

    @IshmaelZ said:
    So you really think that black people are *biologically* less well able than whites and Asians to be educated so as to become competent doctors, and that there is inherent white privilege here which qwe should just put up with cos there is nothing to be done about it?
    @DavidL says
    No, of course I don't. What I do say is that the answer to that problem is to look at the societal issues that result in that under performance and seek to address them. Which is not easy. But the answer is not to appoint doctors who come from a minority who are, bluntly, not up to the rather difficult job.

    30 odd years ago someone noticed that sheriffs were male, pale and stale. This, of course, reflected the profession that they had gained the requisite experience in. The answer was to appoint many female sheriffs. In my experience female solicitors, such as my wife, hated this because along with many excellent appointments they also appointed various incompetent female sheriffs who gave female sheriffs a bad name. Of course, they also appointed a lot of seriously incompetent male sheriffs too but they did not stand out so much amongst the profession. Those I spoke to wanted female Sheriffs to be appointed on merit, given a fair and even crack of the whip and an equal chance.

    Now, 30 odd years on, the profession is becoming increasingly female dominated as is the bench, albeit 20 years or so behind. The focus now is on whether there are sufficient minorities and we are in danger of making the same mistakes again.

    As a society we aspire to true equality of opportunity and rightly so. That means that those who face structural problems, whether of poverty, social breakdown, poor schooling or whatever should indeed be helped but the ideal that all are selected on merit is a really important principle and should not be abandoned, whether for gender or racial reasons.

    At what point does law start seeing the same problems as medicine, that encouragement of women to join these professions leads eventually to shortages, as they effectively “retire” in their thirties?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706
    edited August 2022
    Never mind the impact on Trump's chances, how on earth could an ex President be allowed to take nuclear codes with him? Even if it turns out he hasn't that should never have been a risk
  • HYUFD said:

    Never mind the impact on Trump's chances, how on earth could an ex President be allowed to take nuclear codes with him? Even if it turns out he hasn't that should never have been a risk

    Wait until you hear about the former UK Foreign Secretary who, as FS, met with a KGB agent, didn't tell his staff, denied it for ages, and then said he couldn't remember if he discussed government business.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    We will all have to pick a side in the Coming American Civil War

    Religious Freaks or Cultural Marxists? Not exactly a fun choice. But we will have to choose

    At least it will be exciting
  • Leon said:

    We will all have to pick a side in the Coming American Civil War

    Religious Freaks or Cultural Marxists? Not exactly a fun choice. But we will have to choose

    At least it will be exciting

    Do Cultural Marxists want to ban abortion and inter-racial sex?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,111
    Leon said:

    We will all have to pick a side in the Coming American Civil War

    Religious Freaks or Cultural Marxists? Not exactly a fun choice. But we will have to choose

    At least it will be exciting

    You think there would be two sides? I wonder.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,779
    Eabhal said:

    Just to echo the posts on the last thread, Lothian, Moray, Aberdeenshire all looking extraordinarily dry at the mo (from recent travels). I've taken to watering the newly planted trees at work - they're pretty much dead, but birches are pretty resilient.

    There is also a big wildfire out at West Calder at the mo. It's not just England.

    We also have thunderstorms forecast for Sunday/Monday, but this has happened a few times and they have never materialised.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America


    I suspect you will get your wish of a radical hard right government. But it won't save America, it will destroy it.

    Once Trump - or Trumpite - politicians retake power, they will never relinquish it. We saw the failed farcical coup in January. They will be better organised next time.

    And what a country they will build. Remove rights for women. Remove rights for us gayers and for non-Christians and for other unwanted minorities.

    It won't be woke. Which you will support. But it will be fascist. Which you won't. All hail Gilead.
    Even if the GOP managed to win the White House and Congress on such a platform, which is unlikely, California and New York and Massachusetts etc would soon secede from the Union if further Federal elections every 2 and 4 years were prevented.

    In the South it might be possible, there is still a Trump majority overall there not the US overall
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I think there are some Southern legislatures that would like to reinstate anti miscegenation laws but they must know thats a dead letter>
    One of them said something like 'They said that about overturning Roe'.
    Roe was always on weak ground (and the Kansas vote suggests that actually ending the constitutional right to abortion might not make a lot of difference at State level). The reasoning behind Bird v Loving is a lot stronger.
    The late Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that the reasoning in Roe v Wade was suspect, even though she didn’t wish to overturn it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,140
    HYUFD said:

    Never mind the impact on Trump's chances, how on earth could an ex President be allowed to take nuclear codes with him? Even if it turns out he hasn't that should never have been a risk

    The reports are that he had nuclear secrets. I doubt that means launch codes. It's presumably details about weaponry (the US's or maybe somewhere else's).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,547
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Never mind the impact on Trump's chances, how on earth could an ex President be allowed to take nuclear codes with him? Even if it turns out he hasn't that should never have been a risk

    The codes are changed with the change in President - at which point the Biscuit* becomes stale.

    The significant of nuclear secrets (alongside the fact that they're rather consequential) is that the President does not have the ability to declassify them on his own.
    So the excuse that he just declassified on his way out of office (offered by a gazillion GOP stooges) cannot stand.

    https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/1558063112347066368
    It's called the Atomic Energy Act. Nuclear secrets are restricted data and have an entirely different classification system. The President of the United States can't just declassify these documents; he would've had to wait for the Department of Energy.

    *
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706
    Tory donor switches to back Starmer. Says he would only come back if Badenoch was Tory leader

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1558062958382665729?s=20&t=hb7HQyfUn-6bApYuYoP1sQ
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,111
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Just to echo the posts on the last thread, Lothian, Moray, Aberdeenshire all looking extraordinarily dry at the mo (from recent travels). I've taken to watering the newly planted trees at work - they're pretty much dead, but birches are pretty resilient.

    There is also a big wildfire out at West Calder at the mo. It's not just England.

    We also have thunderstorms forecast for Sunday/Monday, but this has happened a few times and they have never materialised.
    Not so dry on the more pastoral hinterland of Lothian, but it does sound as if the rain shadow has had an effect on the high farming lower ground.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    There are reports that Salman Rushdie has been stabbed in New York.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62524922
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    There are reports that Salman Rushdie has been stabbed in New York.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62524922

    Don't be silly: knife crime is only an issue in London
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,779
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    We will all have to pick a side in the Coming American Civil War

    Religious Freaks or Cultural Marxists? Not exactly a fun choice. But we will have to choose

    At least it will be exciting

    You think there would be two sides? I wonder.
    The opening act of the war, the Franz Ferdinand moment, has just happened in New York.

    (Is that how I'm supposed to do it?)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,111
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Never mind the impact on Trump's chances, how on earth could an ex President be allowed to take nuclear codes with him? Even if it turns out he hasn't that should never have been a risk

    The codes are changed with the change in President - at which point the Biscuit* becomes stale.

    The significant of nuclear secrets (alongside the fact that they're rather consequential) is that the President does not have the ability to declassify them on his own.
    So the excuse that he just declassified on his way out of office (offered by a gazillion GOP stooges) cannot stand.

    https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/1558063112347066368
    It's called the Atomic Energy Act. Nuclear secrets are restricted data and have an entirely different classification system. The President of the United States can't just declassify these documents; he would've had to wait for the Department of Energy.

    *
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
    There's also a much wider issue with his attitude to government papers - refusing to follow federal law on their preservation and filing.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    HYUFD said:

    Tory donor switches to back Starmer. Says he would only come back if Badenoch was Tory leader

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1558062958382665729?s=20&t=hb7HQyfUn-6bApYuYoP1sQ

    ummmm...odd?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    We will all have to pick a side in the Coming American Civil War

    Religious Freaks or Cultural Marxists? Not exactly a fun choice. But we will have to choose

    At least it will be exciting

    You choose whichever side is prepared to respect democracy. Because if you have democracy, you can always get rid of the nutters.
    What if neither side does?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    rcs1000 said:

    There are reports that Salman Rushdie has been stabbed in New York.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62524922

    Don't be silly: knife crime is only an issue in London
    Was that really the moment for a joke?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,752
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I think there are some Southern legislatures that would like to reinstate anti miscegenation laws but they must know thats a dead letter>
    One of them said something like 'They said that about overturning Roe'.
    Roe was always on weak ground (and the Kansas vote suggests that actually ending the constitutional right to abortion might not make a lot of difference at State level). The reasoning behind Bird v Loving is a lot stronger.
    The late Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that the reasoning in Roe v Wade was suspect, even though she didn’t wish to overturn it.
    Of course it was suspect. The idea that a document written in 1787 had anything to say about modern medical practice is frankly absurd. The question in 1972 was what rights should a women have in relation to her own body. And that remains the question today. Roe-v-Wade didn't make much sense as an interpretation of holy writ but it offered a very sensible answer to that question balancing the rights of the various interests. Dods, on the other hand, allows States that feel so inclined to take away rights that women have now had for more than 50 years.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Another clear outcome of the Woke agenda is serious discrimination against Whites (and Asians)

    If you are a white American kid it is harder to get into med school, or law school, or a top university, and many other fields of American life, and this discrimination is getting worse. Meanwhile, American schools are teaching white kids that they are racists and always will be


    Blacks and Hispanics were even favoured for vaccines


    "Starting Thursday, Vermont explicitly gave Black adults and people from other minority communities priority status for vaccinations. It follows Montana, which in January announced that Native Americans and other people of color, because they are at higher risk of complications from covid-19, would be allowed to receive the vaccine."


    https://khn.org/news/article/vermont-gives-blacks-and-other-minority-residents-vaccine-priority/


    So. You're an American voter. You are white. You have three white kids. Which party do you vote for, the Democrats who are crazy about social justice and want to hinder the chances of your children because of their skin colour (and tell them they are racist), or the Republicans who might actually stop the state discriminating against your kids?

    For many people, I submit, that will be a no-brainer

    America is set on a disastrous course, and I am not sure how it can turn back
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Never mind the impact on Trump's chances, how on earth could an ex President be allowed to take nuclear codes with him? Even if it turns out he hasn't that should never have been a risk

    I don't even know if there are codes in that way, but it should be pretty damn hard to near impossible for Presidents to take any confidential materials they are not permitted to take, and certainly not their own judgement call. This isn't the days of Churchill taking boxes home, I hope.

    Edit:A lot of commentary from US republicans thesedays seems to imply that presidents are or should be beyond the law, at least when they hold the White House, or that a single person should hold the power to decide the election etc. That surely cannot be what the Founding Fathers intended. The New Founding Fathers perhaps.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited August 2022
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    The raid is politically neutral. Trump plays the victim, the Right claims persecution, the Left touts no one is above investigation, and the DOJ/FBI can show true impartiality when they don't prosecute It all cancels out. Everyone wins so no one wins.

    What happens if they have found the nuclear codes?
    They got changed at midday on 20 January 2021 if I understand correctly. I think that's a bit of a red herring.
    Oh no, the actual launch codes to many nuclear missiles were 12345 for several decades!

    The process that’s in place, is designed to make sure that the authority to launch actually comes from the President, rather than than everyone else thinking he’s bonkers or senile.
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    I don't think there are suggestions that he took nuclear codes (there's a card called a nuclear biscuit which has them on it) which are immediately changed anyway. Rather that he took documents related to nuclear secrets.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,547
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Never mind the impact on Trump's chances, how on earth could an ex President be allowed to take nuclear codes with him? Even if it turns out he hasn't that should never have been a risk

    The codes are changed with the change in President - at which point the Biscuit* becomes stale.

    The significant of nuclear secrets (alongside the fact that they're rather consequential) is that the President does not have the ability to declassify them on his own.
    So the excuse that he just declassified on his way out of office (offered by a gazillion GOP stooges) cannot stand.

    https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/1558063112347066368
    It's called the Atomic Energy Act. Nuclear secrets are restricted data and have an entirely different classification system. The President of the United States can't just declassify these documents; he would've had to wait for the Department of Energy.

    *
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
    There's also a much wider issue with his attitude to government papers - refusing to follow federal law on their preservation and filing.
    There's all of that.
    And the idea that he has been 'co-operating' with the authorities, given that he's still holding stuff eighteen months on, is absurd.

    But the (potential) presence of government nuclear secrets at Trump's residence gives the FBI rock solid justification for a warrant to recover them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706

    HYUFD said:

    Never mind the impact on Trump's chances, how on earth could an ex President be allowed to take nuclear codes with him? Even if it turns out he hasn't that should never have been a risk

    Wait until you hear about the former UK Foreign Secretary who, as FS, met with a KGB agent, didn't tell his staff, denied it for ages, and then said he couldn't remember if he discussed government business.
    Senior government ministers meet with unsavoury characters all the time. That is not the same as taking nuclear codes out of Whitehall when not in office
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Never mind the impact on Trump's chances, how on earth could an ex President be allowed to take nuclear codes with him? Even if it turns out he hasn't that should never have been a risk

    The codes are changed with the change in President - at which point the Biscuit* becomes stale.

    The significant of nuclear secrets (alongside the fact that they're rather consequential) is that the President does not have the ability to declassify them on his own.
    So the excuse that he just declassified on his way out of office (offered by a gazillion GOP stooges) cannot stand.

    https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/1558063112347066368
    It's called the Atomic Energy Act. Nuclear secrets are restricted data and have an entirely different classification system. The President of the United States can't just declassify these documents; he would've had to wait for the Department of Energy.

    *
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football
    There's also a much wider issue with his attitude to government papers - refusing to follow federal law on their preservation and filing.
    Not a 'sexy' offence though. We've already seen people, not Trump fans, declare that the raid will have been a massive boost to him if that is all it is about. Even though that is serious.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706

    HYUFD said:

    Tory donor switches to back Starmer. Says he would only come back if Badenoch was Tory leader

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1558062958382665729?s=20&t=hb7HQyfUn-6bApYuYoP1sQ

    ummmm...odd?
    Not only any Tory donor either but a hedge fund billionaire
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,752
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    IshmaelZ Posts: 19,116
    3:35PM
    DavidL said:
    » show previous quotes
    To take one very obvious example by the same logic the fact that in almost every culture women have a better life expectancy than men must conclusively prove that society is inherently biased against men and fails to recognise inherent female privilege, that any suggestion that women are disadvantaged or ever have been disadvantaged is a failure to recognise the structual biases that cause men to die at an earlier age.

    It is, quite frankly, both mad and depressing.

    @IshmaelZ said:
    So you really think that black people are *biologically* less well able than whites and Asians to be educated so as to become competent doctors, and that there is inherent white privilege here which qwe should just put up with cos there is nothing to be done about it?
    @DavidL says
    No, of course I don't. What I do say is that the answer to that problem is to look at the societal issues that result in that under performance and seek to address them. Which is not easy. But the answer is not to appoint doctors who come from a minority who are, bluntly, not up to the rather difficult job.

    30 odd years ago someone noticed that sheriffs were male, pale and stale. This, of course, reflected the profession that they had gained the requisite experience in. The answer was to appoint many female sheriffs. In my experience female solicitors, such as my wife, hated this because along with many excellent appointments they also appointed various incompetent female sheriffs who gave female sheriffs a bad name. Of course, they also appointed a lot of seriously incompetent male sheriffs too but they did not stand out so much amongst the profession. Those I spoke to wanted female Sheriffs to be appointed on merit, given a fair and even crack of the whip and an equal chance.

    Now, 30 odd years on, the profession is becoming increasingly female dominated as is the bench, albeit 20 years or so behind. The focus now is on whether there are sufficient minorities and we are in danger of making the same mistakes again.

    As a society we aspire to true equality of opportunity and rightly so. That means that those who face structural problems, whether of poverty, social breakdown, poor schooling or whatever should indeed be helped but the ideal that all are selected on merit is a really important principle and should not be abandoned, whether for gender or racial reasons.

    At what point does law start seeing the same problems as medicine, that encouragement of women to join these professions leads eventually to shortages, as they effectively “retire” in their thirties?
    I don't think that it will. The key difference is that it is relatively easy and cheap to train lawyers. We don't need lots of kit or fancy labs. We get books and precedent, pretty much all of which are now available online.

    The problem in medicine is that UK plc invests very serious money into training a doctor. If that doctor goes part time for family reasons in his or her 30s we have got a very poor return on that investment. Ditto if they retire in their late 50s because they have maxed out their pensions.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,836
    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I think there are some Southern legislatures that would like to reinstate anti miscegenation laws but they must know thats a dead letter>
    One of them said something like 'They said that about overturning Roe'.
    Roe was always on weak ground (and the Kansas vote suggests that actually ending the constitutional right to abortion might not make a lot of difference at State level). The reasoning behind Bird v Loving is a lot stronger.
    Roe was* an impeccable fusion of logical reasoning and modern interpretation of the constitution which balanced protection and respect for women with same for the unborn child. A superb piece of law. Right up there with the very best examples of that noble art.

    * Such a crying shame to have to use the past tense here.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Rushdie news not great. Assailant fits the bill

    Stabbed "multiple times" - apparently. Who knows
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,547
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I think there are some Southern legislatures that would like to reinstate anti miscegenation laws but they must know thats a dead letter>
    One of them said something like 'They said that about overturning Roe'.
    Roe was always on weak ground (and the Kansas vote suggests that actually ending the constitutional right to abortion might not make a lot of difference at State level). The reasoning behind Bird v Loving is a lot stronger.
    Roe was* an impeccable fusion of logical reasoning and modern interpretation of the constitution which balanced protection and respect for women with same for the unborn child. A superb piece of law. Right up there with the very best examples of that noble art.

    * Such a crying shame to have to use the past tense here.
    And at the time a not particularly controversial, consensus decision.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    This does actually seem pretty stupid even for electronic voting machines (I recall John Oliver quoting Trump even as being able to see how stupid it was not to have a paper trail with the machines), but somehow I suspect he does not really care about integrity.


    Thousands of Brazilians have taken to the streets amid concern President Jair Bolsonaro will try to stay in power even if he loses October's election.

    Protesters marched in several cities on Thursday in defence of democracy over fears the far-right leader would not respect the outcome of the vote.

    Mr Bolsonaro has repeatedly sought to discredit Brazil's voting system.

    He has claimed that electronic voting machines enable cheating, because of the absence of a paper trail.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-62516251
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706
    Leon said:

    Rushdie news not great. Assailant fits the bill

    Stabbed "multiple times" - apparently. Who knows

    Not great but he always knew he was taking a huge risk in terms of the reaction amongst hardline Muslims when he wrote the Satanic Verses
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I think there are some Southern legislatures that would like to reinstate anti miscegenation laws but they must know thats a dead letter>
    One of them said something like 'They said that about overturning Roe'.
    Roe was always on weak ground (and the Kansas vote suggests that actually ending the constitutional right to abortion might not make a lot of difference at State level). The reasoning behind Bird v Loving is a lot stronger.
    Roe was* an impeccable fusion of logical reasoning and modern interpretation of the constitution which balanced protection and respect for women with same for the unborn child. A superb piece of law. Right up there with the very best examples of that noble art.

    * Such a crying shame to have to use the past tense here.
    It's only a superb piece of law in that it found a convoluted way to justify the outcome that it wanted (and you did, and I did). The fact that it was able to be overturned now shows it to have been an ineffective fudge.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Better news


    To summarize reports:

    Author Salman Rushdie was stabbed after taking stage at a Chautauqua Institute event. He received aid on-site and was able to eventually walk off stage with assistance.

    This man has been detained by police:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    There are reports that Salman Rushdie has been stabbed in New York.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62524922

    Don't be silly: knife crime is only an issue in London
    Was that really the moment for a joke?
    You've never come across Black comedy before?

    (Unless the wokers have removed that term).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,873
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Just to echo the posts on the last thread, Lothian, Moray, Aberdeenshire all looking extraordinarily dry at the mo (from recent travels). I've taken to watering the newly planted trees at work - they're pretty much dead, but birches are pretty resilient.

    There is also a big wildfire out at West Calder at the mo. It's not just England.

    We also have thunderstorms forecast for Sunday/Monday, but this has happened a few times and they have never materialised.
    We are three days out, so pretty likely now, but showers are always hit and miss. Fingers crossed.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    .

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    After reading all those Woke essays, I want seriously rightwing Republicans to win - just not Trump, he's toxic, mad, venal and a menacing narcissist

    A radical right government is the only way America can save itself. Which is a damn shame, because the radical right in the USA is fucking nuts. But at least they are patriotic, and not social justice commies. The American Left will actually destroy America

    Overturning Roe v. Wade might just screw the GOP.
    Yes, that was an idiotic piece of self-harm by the American Right. They had the Dems on the run, then that

    What an appalling choice Americans face. Cultural Marxists on the Left, bent on destroying the Enlightenment (and healthcare, education, etc) and religious freaks on the Right, who want to set back the rights of women by 50 years, and much else

    And yet it is not a choice from which American voters can turn away. It's the future of the country. It is one or the other, however hideous the alternatives

    I'd go with the religious freaks, as there is a chance a recognisably free and strong America may still emerge from that shitshow
    You are beyond redemption.

    All those drugs have addled your mind.

    Not only do the GOP want to set the rights of women back fifty years, they want to bring back anti-miscegenation laws, disenfranchise blacks, but your messed up minds prefers that over people who focus on pronouns.
    I think there are some Southern legislatures that would like to reinstate anti miscegenation laws but they must know thats a dead letter>
    One of them said something like 'They said that about overturning Roe'.
    Roe was always on weak ground (and the Kansas vote suggests that actually ending the constitutional right to abortion might not make a lot of difference at State level). The reasoning behind Bird v Loving is a lot stronger.
    The late Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that the reasoning in Roe v Wade was suspect, even though she didn’t wish to overturn it.
    Of course it was suspect. The idea that a document written in 1787 had anything to say about modern medical practice is frankly absurd. The question in 1972 was what rights should a women have in relation to her own body. And that remains the question today. Roe-v-Wade didn't make much sense as an interpretation of holy writ but it offered a very sensible answer to that question balancing the rights of the various interests. Dods, on the other hand, allows States that feel so inclined to take away rights that women have now had for more than 50 years.
    Absolutely - the court in 1972 decided there should be a constitutional right so they pretty much invented one. That was always going to be open to challenge at a later date.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    There are reports that Salman Rushdie has been stabbed in New York.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62524922

    Don't be silly: knife crime is only an issue in London
    Was that really the moment for a joke?
    You've never come across Black comedy before?

    (Unless the wokers have removed that term).
    Why did you capitalise B in black?

    Was it a clever meta-joke? If so, bravo
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,699
    HYUFD said:

    Tory donor switches to back Starmer. Says he would only come back if Badenoch was Tory leader

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1558062958382665729?s=20&t=hb7HQyfUn-6bApYuYoP1sQ

    THat just makes no sense. Badenoch is on the right of the Tory party. Not happy so goes further left than and Tory leadership candidate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,547
    Leon said:

    Better news


    To summarize reports:

    Author Salman Rushdie was stabbed after taking stage at a Chautauqua Institute event. He received aid on-site and was able to eventually walk off stage with assistance.

    This man has been detained by police:

    There are other reports that he's OK, but no way to verify them for now.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,727
    Taz said:

    THat just makes no sense. Badenoch is on the right of the Tory party. Not happy so goes further left than and Tory leadership candidate.

    Badenoch is not clearly insane. Neither is Starmer.

    Both options are better than what is about to happen...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    IshmaelZ Posts: 19,116
    3:35PM
    DavidL said:
    » show previous quotes
    To take one very obvious example by the same logic the fact that in almost every culture women have a better life expectancy than men must conclusively prove that society is inherently biased against men and fails to recognise inherent female privilege, that any suggestion that women are disadvantaged or ever have been disadvantaged is a failure to recognise the structual biases that cause men to die at an earlier age.

    It is, quite frankly, both mad and depressing.

    @IshmaelZ said:
    So you really think that black people are *biologically* less well able than whites and Asians to be educated so as to become competent doctors, and that there is inherent white privilege here which qwe should just put up with cos there is nothing to be done about it?
    @DavidL says
    No, of course I don't. What I do say is that the answer to that problem is to look at the societal issues that result in that under performance and seek to address them. Which is not easy. But the answer is not to appoint doctors who come from a minority who are, bluntly, not up to the rather difficult job.

    30 odd years ago someone noticed that sheriffs were male, pale and stale. This, of course, reflected the profession that they had gained the requisite experience in. The answer was to appoint many female sheriffs. In my experience female solicitors, such as my wife, hated this because along with many excellent appointments they also appointed various incompetent female sheriffs who gave female sheriffs a bad name. Of course, they also appointed a lot of seriously incompetent male sheriffs too but they did not stand out so much amongst the profession. Those I spoke to wanted female Sheriffs to be appointed on merit, given a fair and even crack of the whip and an equal chance.

    Now, 30 odd years on, the profession is becoming increasingly female dominated as is the bench, albeit 20 years or so behind. The focus now is on whether there are sufficient minorities and we are in danger of making the same mistakes again.

    As a society we aspire to true equality of opportunity and rightly so. That means that those who face structural problems, whether of poverty, social breakdown, poor schooling or whatever should indeed be helped but the ideal that all are selected on merit is a really important principle and should not be abandoned, whether for gender or racial reasons.

    At what point does law start seeing the same problems as medicine, that encouragement of women to join these professions leads eventually to shortages, as they effectively “retire” in their thirties?
    I don't think that it will. The key difference is that it is relatively easy and cheap to train lawyers. We don't need lots of kit or fancy labs. We get books and precedent, pretty much all of which are now available online.

    The problem in medicine is that UK plc invests very serious money into training a doctor. If that doctor goes part time for family reasons in his or her 30s we have got a very poor return on that investment. Ditto if they retire in their late 50s because they have maxed out their pensions.
    The pensions issue is the most interesting, because anyone working in the private sector can’t hope to ever get a pension worth taking early.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    There are reports that Salman Rushdie has been stabbed in New York.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62524922

    Don't be silly: knife crime is only an issue in London
    Was that really the moment for a joke?
    You've never come across Black comedy before?

    (Unless the wokers have removed that term).
    Why did you capitalise B in black?

    Was it a clever meta-joke? If so, bravo
    Any cleverness in my posts is likely to be coincidental.

    I actually capitalised it as when looking at the wikipedia page when I was looking at alternative names it seemed like the black in black humour was a label, and capitalisation therefore seemed appropriate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory donor switches to back Starmer. Says he would only come back if Badenoch was Tory leader

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1558062958382665729?s=20&t=hb7HQyfUn-6bApYuYoP1sQ

    THat just makes no sense. Badenoch is on the right of the Tory party. Not happy so goes further left than and Tory leadership candidate.
    I knew a young female Tory who after the 2017 election went for Corbyn instead - people are strange.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,111
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    IshmaelZ Posts: 19,116
    3:35PM
    DavidL said:
    » show previous quotes
    To take one very obvious example by the same logic the fact that in almost every culture women have a better life expectancy than men must conclusively prove that society is inherently biased against men and fails to recognise inherent female privilege, that any suggestion that women are disadvantaged or ever have been disadvantaged is a failure to recognise the structual biases that cause men to die at an earlier age.

    It is, quite frankly, both mad and depressing.

    @IshmaelZ said:
    So you really think that black people are *biologically* less well able than whites and Asians to be educated so as to become competent doctors, and that there is inherent white privilege here which qwe should just put up with cos there is nothing to be done about it?
    @DavidL says
    No, of course I don't. What I do say is that the answer to that problem is to look at the societal issues that result in that under performance and seek to address them. Which is not easy. But the answer is not to appoint doctors who come from a minority who are, bluntly, not up to the rather difficult job.

    30 odd years ago someone noticed that sheriffs were male, pale and stale. This, of course, reflected the profession that they had gained the requisite experience in. The answer was to appoint many female sheriffs. In my experience female solicitors, such as my wife, hated this because along with many excellent appointments they also appointed various incompetent female sheriffs who gave female sheriffs a bad name. Of course, they also appointed a lot of seriously incompetent male sheriffs too but they did not stand out so much amongst the profession. Those I spoke to wanted female Sheriffs to be appointed on merit, given a fair and even crack of the whip and an equal chance.

    Now, 30 odd years on, the profession is becoming increasingly female dominated as is the bench, albeit 20 years or so behind. The focus now is on whether there are sufficient minorities and we are in danger of making the same mistakes again.

    As a society we aspire to true equality of opportunity and rightly so. That means that those who face structural problems, whether of poverty, social breakdown, poor schooling or whatever should indeed be helped but the ideal that all are selected on merit is a really important principle and should not be abandoned, whether for gender or racial reasons.

    At what point does law start seeing the same problems as medicine, that encouragement of women to join these professions leads eventually to shortages, as they effectively “retire” in their thirties?
    I don't think that it will. The key difference is that it is relatively easy and cheap to train lawyers. We don't need lots of kit or fancy labs. We get books and precedent, pretty much all of which are now available online.

    The problem in medicine is that UK plc invests very serious money into training a doctor. If that doctor goes part time for family reasons in his or her 30s we have got a very poor return on that investment. Ditto if they retire in their late 50s because they have maxed out their pensions.
    The pensions issue is the most interesting, because anyone working in the private sector can’t hope to ever get a pension worth taking early.
    Doctors *are* often self-employed. The issue is the general cap on pensions: it applies to any scheme.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT
    IshmaelZ Posts: 19,116
    3:35PM
    DavidL said:
    » show previous quotes
    To take one very obvious example by the same logic the fact that in almost every culture women have a better life expectancy than men must conclusively prove that society is inherently biased against men and fails to recognise inherent female privilege, that any suggestion that women are disadvantaged or ever have been disadvantaged is a failure to recognise the structual biases that cause men to die at an earlier age.

    It is, quite frankly, both mad and depressing.

    @IshmaelZ said:
    So you really think that black people are *biologically* less well able than whites and Asians to be educated so as to become competent doctors, and that there is inherent white privilege here which qwe should just put up with cos there is nothing to be done about it?
    @DavidL says
    No, of course I don't. What I do say is that the answer to that problem is to look at the societal issues that result in that under performance and seek to address them. Which is not easy. But the answer is not to appoint doctors who come from a minority who are, bluntly, not up to the rather difficult job.

    30 odd years ago someone noticed that sheriffs were male, pale and stale. This, of course, reflected the profession that they had gained the requisite experience in. The answer was to appoint many female sheriffs. In my experience female solicitors, such as my wife, hated this because along with many excellent appointments they also appointed various incompetent female sheriffs who gave female sheriffs a bad name. Of course, they also appointed a lot of seriously incompetent male sheriffs too but they did not stand out so much amongst the profession. Those I spoke to wanted female Sheriffs to be appointed on merit, given a fair and even crack of the whip and an equal chance.

    Now, 30 odd years on, the profession is becoming increasingly female dominated as is the bench, albeit 20 years or so behind. The focus now is on whether there are sufficient minorities and we are in danger of making the same mistakes again.

    As a society we aspire to true equality of opportunity and rightly so. That means that those who face structural problems, whether of poverty, social breakdown, poor schooling or whatever should indeed be helped but the ideal that all are selected on merit is a really important principle and should not be abandoned, whether for gender or racial reasons.

    At what point does law start seeing the same problems as medicine, that encouragement of women to join these professions leads eventually to shortages, as they effectively “retire” in their thirties?
    I don't think that it will. The key difference is that it is relatively easy and cheap to train lawyers. We don't need lots of kit or fancy labs. We get books and precedent, pretty much all of which are now available online.

    The problem in medicine is that UK plc invests very serious money into training a doctor. If that doctor goes part time for family reasons in his or her 30s we have got a very poor return on that investment. Ditto if they retire in their late 50s because they have maxed out their pensions.
    Like I've said before, we should pay doctors less so that they have to work full time to make ends meet and have to keep at it until they reach retirement age. It's not like they are capable of doing something else instead, and there will be no shortage of teenagers [whose parents are] desperate [for them to] get into med school.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,699
    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    THat just makes no sense. Badenoch is on the right of the Tory party. Not happy so goes further left than and Tory leadership candidate.

    Badenoch is not clearly insane. Neither is Starmer.

    Both options are better than what is about to happen...
    I’m not worried

    Hope, not handouts, will help us pay the fuel bill.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,699
    Leon said:

    Rushdie news not great. Assailant fits the bill

    Stabbed "multiple times" - apparently. Who knows

    Saw him at Hay a couple of years ago. Airport-style security at the door. Rushdie came and left by helicopter.

    The constant fear and enveloping security must have been a huge burden over the years.
This discussion has been closed.