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Sunak leads by 9% as appearing a PM in waiting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,049
edited July 2022 in General
Sunak leads by 9% as appearing a PM in waiting – politicalbetting.com

Rishi Sunak looks more like a PM in waiting than Keir Starmer and Liz Truss, but none of them look like an obvious PM.> 34% agree Sunak looks like a PM in waiting vs 35% disagree (net -1)> Starmer: 30% agree vs 39% disagree (net -9)> Truss: 25% agree vs 37% disagree (net -12) pic.twitter.com/DKqrYzaNqH

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Comments

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,969
    Interesting to ponder for a Saturday evening

    Thatcher (in her prime) Vs Blair (in his prime) who would've won?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    "looks like a PM in waiting" struck me as creepy when they kept saying it about Kinnock in 1992. Still does.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    But Truss does better vs Lab on forced choice metric than Sunak. Curious.
  • If you were forced to choose, which of these would you prefer?

    A Labour government led by Keir Starmer: 40%
    A Conservative government led by Liz Truss: 39%

    via @OpiniumResearch, 21-22 Jul
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    GIN1138 said:

    Interesting to ponder for a Saturday evening

    Thatcher (in her prime) Vs Blair (in his prime) who would've won?

    Thatch. Not just a better fighter, it would be heavy vs flyweight.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    GIN1138 said:

    Interesting to ponder for a Saturday evening

    Thatcher (in her prime) Vs Blair (in his prime) who would've won?

    Whats the contest? Best PM Thatch, smarmiest c*** Blair
  • If you were forced to choose, which of these would you prefer?

    A Labour government led by Keir Starmer: 40%
    A Conservative government led by Liz Truss: 39%

    via @OpiniumResearch, 21-22 Jul

    Forced choice? According to those figures 21% ducked it!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,106
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.54 Liz Truss 65%
    2.92 Rishi Sunak 34%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.55 Liz Truss 65%
    2.94 Rishi Sunak 34%
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,555
    Rishi may benefit from having lived next door.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,282
    GIN1138 said:

    Interesting to ponder for a Saturday evening

    Thatcher (in her prime) Vs Blair (in his prime) who would've won?

    Blair I'd say

    Thatcher was sui generis, and created her own political reality via great success - despite her flaws

    Blair was more the classically excellent politician, suave, affable, plausible. charming, clever - he had everything going for him. So in an all-else-equal vote, Blair gets it

    But Thatcher is ten times the historical figure
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946

    If you were forced to choose, which of these would you prefer?

    A Labour government led by Keir Starmer: 40%
    A Conservative government led by Liz Truss: 39%

    via @OpiniumResearch, 21-22 Jul

    Progressive alliance malfunction there
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273
    And he'll be waiting a long time too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977

    If you were forced to choose, which of these would you prefer?

    A Labour government led by Keir Starmer: 40%
    A Conservative government led by Liz Truss: 39%

    via @OpiniumResearch, 21-22 Jul

    I think she would be very happy with that score, at this time, and Sunak devastated by it.

    Sure, he might score slightly better on appearing like a PM, but that's not a bad match up for Truss and makes claims she has no chance against Starmer look like hyperbole.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    edited July 2022
    GIN1138 said:

    Interesting to ponder for a Saturday evening

    Thatcher (in her prime) Vs Blair (in his prime) who would've won?

    It depends I suspect with which colour party one's political loyalty lies.
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 42% (-1)
    CON: 31% (-1)
    LDM: 10% (+1)

    via @DeltapollUK, 21-23 Jul

    (Changes with 14 Apr)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    edited July 2022
    Truss on a surge since this from 4 days ago
    with a Labour government under Keir Starmer...

    > ... leading a Sunak govt by 11 pts
    > ... leading a Mordaunt govt by 12 pts
    > ... leading a Truss govt by 14 pts https://t.co/Nwybw9BBAD
  • Opinium assumes swingback, so even with that Tories still lose
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,472
    edited July 2022
    nico679 said:

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    So reporting facts is now being a wanker. The deal is loaded towards New Zealand farmers to the detriment of UK ones .
    That's not a detriment.

    Free trade is good for all nations and in sectors boosts whoever has a competitive advantage.

    If our farmers think they are competitive and have a superior product then they have nothing to fear from a trade deal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    GIN1138 said:

    Interesting to ponder for a Saturday evening

    Thatcher (in her prime) Vs Blair (in his prime) who would've won?

    I think the question is lacking as the specific situation would still suit one or the other, even in their primes.

    Eg Boris in his prime would not have been well placed to fight 2015, whereas Cameron in his prime would not have been able to fight 2019 like Boris could.
  • Truss on a surge since this from 4 days ago
    with a Labour government under Keir Starmer...

    > ... leading a Sunak govt by 11 pts
    > ... leading a Mordaunt govt by 12 pts
    > ... leading a Truss govt by 14 pts https://t.co/Nwybw9BBAD

    Indeed, impressive from Truss. I will admit I don't have a clue why but then I didn't get Johnson either (although I do believe I was proven right in the end).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273
    edited July 2022

    GIN1138 said:

    Interesting to ponder for a Saturday evening

    Thatcher (in her prime) Vs Blair (in his prime) who would've won?

    It depends I suspect with which colour party one's political loyalty lies.
    Pointless question really.
    Which one is the incumbent? How long have they been in office? What's the state of the country? What's the prevailing political weather?
    So much of political success is timing and downright luck.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,106
    Opinium is better for Rishi; Yougov for Liz Truss. Until we see more details, it does look like there may be house effects.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,907
    So Truss wants to extend the Rwanda scheme . Next she’ll be promising to put them against a wall to be shot in her desperate attempt to ingratiate herself to the Tory Membership .
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,477
    Leon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Interesting to ponder for a Saturday evening

    Thatcher (in her prime) Vs Blair (in his prime) who would've won?

    Blair I'd say

    Thatcher was sui generis, and created her own political reality via great success - despite her flaws

    Blair was more the classically excellent politician, suave, affable, plausible. charming, clever - he had everything going for him. So in an all-else-equal vote, Blair gets it

    But Thatcher is ten times the historical figure
    Thatcher changed the country far more than Blair did.

    The question is whether the change was for the good or not.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,227
    Do we have a summary of which taxes they want to cut/raise and which spending they want to cut/raise for dishy and dizzy ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,477

    Rishi may benefit from having lived next door.

    How?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946

    Truss on a surge since this from 4 days ago
    with a Labour government under Keir Starmer...

    > ... leading a Sunak govt by 11 pts
    > ... leading a Mordaunt govt by 12 pts
    > ... leading a Truss govt by 14 pts https://t.co/Nwybw9BBAD

    Indeed, impressive from Truss. I will admit I don't have a clue why but then I didn't get Johnson either (although I do believe I was proven right in the end).
    Labours problem may be getting tactical support. On the forced choice the Lib Dems are only breaking about 1.4 to 1 for labour over conservative
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,907
    The Opinium polling method ignores a key component of polling which is a snapshot in time. They’re assuming something will happen in the future which may or may not happen .
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    Truss on a surge since this from 4 days ago
    with a Labour government under Keir Starmer...

    > ... leading a Sunak govt by 11 pts
    > ... leading a Mordaunt govt by 12 pts
    > ... leading a Truss govt by 14 pts https://t.co/Nwybw9BBAD

    Indeed, impressive from Truss. I will admit I don't have a clue why but then I didn't get Johnson either (although I do believe I was proven right in the end).
    It's all pointless noise at present. I expect, should she prevail, a Truss honeymoon and I expect it to be short.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946

    Opinium assumes swingback, so even with that Tories still lose

    Yes but the polling is in general tightening a little over the last week, labour need to see that halt before any possible new leader bounce
  • Truss on a surge since this from 4 days ago
    with a Labour government under Keir Starmer...

    > ... leading a Sunak govt by 11 pts
    > ... leading a Mordaunt govt by 12 pts
    > ... leading a Truss govt by 14 pts https://t.co/Nwybw9BBAD

    Indeed, impressive from Truss. I will admit I don't have a clue why but then I didn't get Johnson either (although I do believe I was proven right in the end).
    Labours problem may be getting tactical support. On the forced choice the Lib Dems are only breaking about 1.4 to 1 for labour over conservative
    "The progressive alliance" has always been bollocks.

    If Lib Dems wanted Labour, they'd be voting Labour.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,555
    edited July 2022
    I really would like to see more research on the Tory membership. I know we get the demographic stuff - older, more male, more southern but what exactly do they want? I'm sure Matthew Goodwin will have all kinds of polling of where they stand on 'woke issues' but I want to know what their priorities are. Why are they Tory members? What do they want the government to do?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,611
    nico679 said:

    So Truss wants to extend the Rwanda scheme . Next she’ll be promising to put them against a wall to be shot in her desperate attempt to ingratiate herself to the Tory Membership .

    It's a bit racist to equate a well-funded settlement scheme in an African country with being shot.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Rishi may benefit from having lived next door.

    How?
    The Downing Street cat has an interview in the Express!
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,907
    edited July 2022

    nico679 said:

    So Truss wants to extend the Rwanda scheme . Next she’ll be promising to put them against a wall to be shot in her desperate attempt to ingratiate herself to the Tory Membership .

    It's a bit racist to equate a well-funded settlement scheme in an African country with being shot.
    The shooting would take place in a square in the UK with a baying mob of Tory members taking selfies and eating popcorn !
  • Opinium assumes swingback, so even with that Tories still lose

    Yes but the polling is in general tightening a little over the last week, labour need to see that halt before any possible new leader bounce
    Definitely tightening but my understanding was Opinium is trying to say what would happen at/during a GE campaign - and so the Tories would still lose
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,704

    If you were forced to choose, which of these would you prefer?

    A Labour government led by Keir Starmer: 40%
    A Conservative government led by Liz Truss: 39%

    via @OpiniumResearch, 21-22 Jul

    Forced choice? According to those figures 21% ducked it!
    Looks like we're on track for a hopelessly hung parliament unless Sir Keir pulls his finger out.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,517

    Truss on a surge since this from 4 days ago
    with a Labour government under Keir Starmer...

    > ... leading a Sunak govt by 11 pts
    > ... leading a Mordaunt govt by 12 pts
    > ... leading a Truss govt by 14 pts https://t.co/Nwybw9BBAD

    Indeed, impressive from Truss. I will admit I don't have a clue why but then I didn't get Johnson either (although I do believe I was proven right in the end).
    Labours problem may be getting tactical support. On the forced choice the Lib Dems are only breaking about 1.4 to 1 for labour over conservative
    "The progressive alliance" has always been bollocks.

    If Lib Dems wanted Labour, they'd be voting Labour.
    True but it still benefits both it just benefits the LDs far more than Lab and I say that as someone who has never voted Lab.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,227

    nico679 said:

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    So reporting facts is now being a wanker. The deal is loaded towards New Zealand farmers to the detriment of UK ones .
    That's not a detriment.

    Free trade is good for all nations and in sectors boosts whoever has a competitive advantage.

    If our farmers think they are competitive and have a superior product then they have nothing to fear from a trade deal.
    The reality:

    Once implemented, the NZ-UK FTA will remove:

    prohibitively high tariffs and restricted quota access for key meat and dairy exports
    £10-26 per hectolitre tariff on wine
    16% tariff on honey
    tariffs of up to 20% on seafood products
    8% tariffs on onions, kiwifruit and (at certain times of the year) apples.


    https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/free-trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements-concluded-but-not-in-force/new-zealand-united-kingdom-free-trade-agreement/key-facts-on-new-zealand-united-kingdom-trade/

    I doubt many British farmers are going to be affected by this.

    But it might affect other countries which export wine, honey, dairy products and fruit to the UK.

    Plus make those items a bit cheaper in the supermarkets.
  • Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,159
    I've bought more Truss.

    1.54 is nuts on current evidence, she is at least a 75% chance.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273

    Opinium assumes swingback, so even with that Tories still lose

    Yes but the polling is in general tightening a little over the last week, labour need to see that halt before any possible new leader bounce
    It's a tiny little though.
    I'm surprised how small it has been given how many never Borises there were. Seems an almost equal amount of only Borises.
    Imagine there's been a fair bit of churn.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273
    nico679 said:

    The Opinium polling method ignores a key component of polling which is a snapshot in time. They’re assuming something will happen in the future which may or may not happen .

    Yes.
    I didn't think polling was supposed to be predictive.
    Hence the If there were a GE today bit.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946

    Opinium assumes swingback, so even with that Tories still lose

    Yes but the polling is in general tightening a little over the last week, labour need to see that halt before any possible new leader bounce
    Definitely tightening but my understanding was Opinium is trying to say what would happen at/during a GE campaign - and so the Tories would still lose
    As it stands, yes that is correct
  • Opinium assumes swingback, so even with that Tories still lose

    Yes but the polling is in general tightening a little over the last week, labour need to see that halt before any possible new leader bounce
    Definitely tightening but my understanding was Opinium is trying to say what would happen at/during a GE campaign - and so the Tories would still lose
    As it stands, yes that is correct
    Presumably they have confidence in their model - but it is as far as I understand it, currently untested. The model they used for GE19 has been abandoned.

    That's not to dispute their findings.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,159

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
  • dixiedean said:

    nico679 said:

    The Opinium polling method ignores a key component of polling which is a snapshot in time. They’re assuming something will happen in the future which may or may not happen .

    Yes.
    I didn't think polling was supposed to be predictive.
    Hence the If there were a GE today bit.
    That's not the issue, it's that they apply modelling to the polling to assume a Tory swingback, there's a Twitter thread somewhere. It's robust but only based on historical evidence. We're at risk of re-running the 2015 disaster if we down this road.
  • dixiedean said:

    Opinium assumes swingback, so even with that Tories still lose

    Yes but the polling is in general tightening a little over the last week, labour need to see that halt before any possible new leader bounce
    It's a tiny little though.
    I'm surprised how small it has been given how many never Borises there were. Seems an almost equal amount of only Borises.
    Imagine there's been a fair bit of churn.
    Polls don't normally change at leadership elections until the new leader is chosen.

    Until Boris is gone and his replacement is in place, its all very theoretical.
  • Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    Okay so you really do believe in cancel culture, I thought so.

    I am proud of Britain, especially all of the advancements we've made in the world like the web, healthcare.

    We are at our best when we are outward looking, tolerant and welcoming. We have always done our best as that kind of country. I do not think we are there.

    But as Blair said, "we will get back to that". Soon. It's coming.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    dixiedean said:

    Opinium assumes swingback, so even with that Tories still lose

    Yes but the polling is in general tightening a little over the last week, labour need to see that halt before any possible new leader bounce
    It's a tiny little though.
    I'm surprised how small it has been given how many never Borises there were. Seems an almost equal amount of only Borises.
    Imagine there's been a fair bit of churn.
    Its back to pre defenestration level. Im looking at it like this. We were doing 30, braked and went to 15 and have accelerated and are currently back to 30. Its a question of if the toe is still dipping the pedal.
    In other words there is movement, when does that movement hold or reverse.
    The supplementaires, forced choice etc suggest we should see a much tighter picture 'at some point' as it stands
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 42% (-1)
    CON: 31% (-1)
    LDM: 10% (+1)

    via @DeltapollUK, 21-23 Jul

    (Changes with 14 Apr)

    I miss @HYUFD's translating these polls into seats to show the size of the Tory majority.
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 42% (-1)
    CON: 31% (-1)
    LDM: 10% (+1)

    via @DeltapollUK, 21-23 Jul

    (Changes with 14 Apr)

    I miss @HYUFD's translating these polls into seats to show the size of the Tory majority.
    You can see some of those again once Britain's third female/first Asian Prime Minister kisses the Queen's hand. 😉
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,159

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    Okay so you really do believe in cancel culture, I thought so.

    I am proud of Britain, especially all of the advancements we've made in the world like the web, healthcare.

    We are at our best when we are outward looking, tolerant and welcoming. We have always done our best as that kind of country. I do not think we are there.

    But as Blair said, "we will get back to that". Soon. It's coming.
    You're football-team Labour, I get it - it's fine, and it's fun. I used to be the same.

    It's part of your identity. It's part of your purpose. Even the colour of the party logo and it's history excite you, and you really connect with it. They're the good guys, the rest the enemy.

    But, just be prepared for the day when it all gets much more complicated - when you realise your side isn't all perfect -and they really let you down.

    Then, it gets much more complicated - and those are very confusing years.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,646
    Evening all :)

    Three weeks of solid wall-to-wall publicity for the Conservative Party (and remember the old adage, all publicity is good publicity) and their rating edges up 2-3 points. Yes, part of it will be those who have returned to the fold with the expectation of Johnson's departure in five or six weeks.

    After my comments earlier, I find all polling extremely suspicious and dubious but if we didn't have the odd poll to discuss, we'd end up talking about Brexit all day every day.

    Tonight's numbers not so strong for Truss as this morning's ComRes in the Express yet the lack of enthusiasm for any potential PM continues.

    Labour has suffered the almost complete media blackout the Conservative in-sack ferret fighting has provided yet Conference season is approaching and we now need to start seeing some meat on the bones of the Labour programme for the next GE.

    I suspect the speech made by Rachel Reeves will be the most significant of the Conference season.
  • Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    Okay so you really do believe in cancel culture, I thought so.

    I am proud of Britain, especially all of the advancements we've made in the world like the web, healthcare.

    We are at our best when we are outward looking, tolerant and welcoming. We have always done our best as that kind of country. I do not think we are there.

    But as Blair said, "we will get back to that". Soon. It's coming.
    You're football-team Labour, I get it - it's fine, and it's fun. I used to be the same.

    It's part of your identity. It's part of your purpose. Even the colour of the party logo and it's history excite you, and you really connect with it. They're the good guys, the rest the enemy.

    But, just be prepared for the day when it all gets much more complicated - when you realise your side isn't all perfect -and they really let you down.

    Then, it gets much more complicated - and those are very confusing years.
    We're back to Condescending_Royale again, goodness me you are wound up tonight.

    I've voted Tory and Lib Dem you silly sausage.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    Okay so you really do believe in cancel culture, I thought so.

    I am proud of Britain, especially all of the advancements we've made in the world like the web, healthcare.

    We are at our best when we are outward looking, tolerant and welcoming. We have always done our best as that kind of country. I do not think we are there.

    But as Blair said, "we will get back to that". Soon. It's coming.
    You're football-team Labour, I get it - it's fine, and it's fun. I used to be the same.

    It's part of your identity. It's part of your purpose. Even the colour of the party logo and it's history excite you, and you really connect with it. They're the good guys, the rest the enemy.

    But, just be prepared for the day when it all gets much more complicated - when you realise your side isn't all perfect -and they really let you down.

    Then, it gets much more complicated - and those are very confusing years.
    That's what you get for supporting the Tories!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    Okay so you really do believe in cancel culture, I thought so.

    I am proud of Britain, especially all of the advancements we've made in the world like the web, healthcare.

    We are at our best when we are outward looking, tolerant and welcoming. We have always done our best as that kind of country. I do not think we are there.

    But as Blair said, "we will get back to that". Soon. It's coming.
    You're football-team Labour, I get it - it's fine, and it's fun. I used to be the same.

    It's part of your identity. It's part of your purpose. Even the colour of the party logo and it's history excite you, and you really connect with it. They're the good guys, the rest the enemy.

    But, just be prepared for the day when it all gets much more complicated - when you realise your side isn't all perfect -and they really let you down.

    Then, it gets much more complicated - and those are very confusing years.
    Pots and kettles there mate! Another incoming off topic? Fill yer boots!
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 42% (-1)
    CON: 31% (-1)
    LDM: 10% (+1)

    via @DeltapollUK, 21-23 Jul

    (Changes with 14 Apr)

    I miss @HYUFD's translating these polls into seats to show the size of the Tory majority.
    You can see some of those again once Britain's third female/first Asian Prime Minister kisses the Queen's hand. 😉
    Are you on commission, getting a bit weird now
  • I do get it, Condescending_Royale would much prefer a nice echo chamber where we all say well done for pointing out those awful adverts at Waterloo Station and that evil company BT for putting them up
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited July 2022
    On topic I think this is too close to call but not for long. The margin between the first poll of BJ and JH ended up dropping 12/13% so I think this is too close to call right how. After the two televised debates I think the polls will stabilise and we should know the winner as the poll leader around the 6-7th August barring a big surprise.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,544

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    That's half of Scotland and Northern Ireland added to the contempt list.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    edited July 2022

    nico679 said:

    So Truss wants to extend the Rwanda scheme . Next she’ll be promising to put them against a wall to be shot in her desperate attempt to ingratiate herself to the Tory Membership .

    It's a bit racist to equate a well-funded settlement scheme in an African country with being shot.
    He didn't equate the scheme to being shot at all, he suggested an intentionally ridiculous escalation to go a lot further than the scheme.

    You can regard the premise that the Tory membership are only interested in being tougher and tougher on potential migrants/asylum seekers as entirely incorrect, but the quote isn't saying the scheme is like being shot.

    So its not the least bit racist about the scheme, it's comic exaggeration of the Tory membership (comedic value may be in the eye of the beholder) priorities.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited July 2022
    Thinking of rulers past,
    has anybody else here seen Private Eye's cover with Johnson's legacy? It combines a loo & poo.

    And what would one do for Trump's ? I think his ego tells him his image should be graven on Mount Rushmore. If so, macabrely I suppose it should include dead people a sort of Satan of the north.
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 42% (-1)
    CON: 31% (-1)
    LDM: 10% (+1)

    via @DeltapollUK, 21-23 Jul

    (Changes with 14 Apr)

    I miss @HYUFD's translating these polls into seats to show the size of the Tory majority.
    You can see some of those again once Britain's third female/first Asian Prime Minister kisses the Queen's hand. 😉
    Are you on commission, getting a bit weird now
    Commission for what? I was making a joke, hence the wink emoji.

    Being serious, I think only fools pay much attention to midterm polls. A Tory poll lead once the new leader in place will probably be seen (because all new leaders normally get a bounce), but I wouldn't read anything into it.
  • Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    That's half of Scotland and Northern Ireland added to the contempt list.
    I am HeldInContemptBattery, a wonderful honour. You can call me that from here!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    1.53 for Truss looks big to me, the question is does is get bigger ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    Labrador Man Speaks Out, hurrah!

    I am going to stuff a small polyester White Ensign up my arse, and stand to attention while farting it out in time to Land of Hope and Glory on my favourite Joe Loss Orchestra Patriotic Hits long playing record. This post deserves no less.
  • STORY

    Major Tory donor threatened to 'expose' Treasurer after row at 'unity dinner'

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1550926220392480768

    That's an odd name for a penis, is that what you get in these Tory circles?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,648
    nico679 said:

    So Truss wants to extend the Rwanda scheme . Next she’ll be promising to put them against a wall to be shot in her desperate attempt to ingratiate herself to the Tory Membership .

    I’m intrigued. How would putting the Tory membership against a wall and shooting them ingratiate her with this electorate?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    That's half of Scotland and Northern Ireland added to the contempt list.
    I am HeldInContemptBattery, a wonderful honour. You can call me that from here!
    You get my vote CHB. Whilst I disagree with much if not most of what you say I certainly enjoy you saying it.
  • Thatcher's greatest legacy, surely woke BT must be up there, just terrible
  • Omnium said:

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    That's half of Scotland and Northern Ireland added to the contempt list.
    I am HeldInContemptBattery, a wonderful honour. You can call me that from here!
    You get my vote CHB. Whilst I disagree with much if not most of what you say I certainly enjoy you saying it.
    You can be in my cabinet any day, it would be a government of terrible bantz
  • ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    So Truss wants to extend the Rwanda scheme . Next she’ll be promising to put them against a wall to be shot in her desperate attempt to ingratiate herself to the Tory Membership .

    I’m intrigued. How would putting the Tory membership against a wall and shooting them ingratiate her with this electorate?
    Pour encourager les autres.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    So Truss wants to extend the Rwanda scheme . Next she’ll be promising to put them against a wall to be shot in her desperate attempt to ingratiate herself to the Tory Membership .

    I’m intrigued. How would putting the Tory membership against a wall and shooting them ingratiate her with this electorate?
    Party memberships often seem very self destructive to those outside the party.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,646
    If you want to see how bad it can get for a centre-right Government head to Austria where the once dominant People's Party has sunk to third place in a poll for the first time since who knows when..

    The latest poll for TV Osterreich is as follows (changes from last Federal election):

    SPD: 31% (+10)
    Freedom Party (FPO): 23% (+7)
    People's Party (OVP): 20% (-17)
    NEOS: 11% (+3)
    Greens: 9% (-5)
    People, Freedom, Rights (MFG): 4% (new)

    That means the governing OVP-Green coalition has fallen from 51% at the last election to 29% now.

    Could an FPO-OVP coalition take over? I suspect the SPD-NEOS-Green option (analogous to Germany) is the other option.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500

    Omnium said:

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    That's half of Scotland and Northern Ireland added to the contempt list.
    I am HeldInContemptBattery, a wonderful honour. You can call me that from here!
    You get my vote CHB. Whilst I disagree with much if not most of what you say I certainly enjoy you saying it.
    You can be in my cabinet any day, it would be a government of terrible bantz
    Well, don't let the bastards get you down :)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,762

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    That's half of Scotland and Northern Ireland added to the contempt list.
    I am HeldInContemptBattery, a wonderful honour. You can call me that from here!
    I’m proud to be contemptible!
  • Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    That's half of Scotland and Northern Ireland added to the contempt list.
    I am HeldInContemptBattery, a wonderful honour. You can call me that from here!
    You get my vote CHB. Whilst I disagree with much if not most of what you say I certainly enjoy you saying it.
    You can be in my cabinet any day, it would be a government of terrible bantz
    Well, don't let the bastards get you down :)
    "Them's the breaks"

    - Plato
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977

    STORY

    Major Tory donor threatened to 'expose' Treasurer after row at 'unity dinner'

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1550926220392480768

    That's an odd name for a penis, is that what you get in these Tory circles?

    I think it is clear that Lord Ranger has absolutely no idea how our honours system works.

    In a three page letter of complaint to Mr Karim, seen by the Sunday Mirror and copied in to Boris Johnson and party chairman Ben Elliot, Lord Ranger warned Mr Karim: “Remember it is illegal to buy honours for cash and if you receive any honour for paying money, I will be the first to expose you.”

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,366
    Which one is Leon?

    We Went Alien Hunting With Conspiracy Theorists
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No5C6YRzZ74
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 42% (-1)
    CON: 31% (-1)
    LDM: 10% (+1)

    via @DeltapollUK, 21-23 Jul

    (Changes with 14 Apr)

    I miss @HYUFD's translating these polls into seats to show the size of the Tory majority.
    You can see some of those again once Britain's third female/first Asian Prime Minister kisses the Queen's hand. 😉
    Lol, I think we need to see how much shit the contenders throw at each other during the campaign. Some of that shit is going to stick to the Conservative brand imo.

    We haven't had that in the previous two changes: May was unopposed at this stage and Johnson was so far ahead and Hunt too nice to throw the dirt.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,648

    Which one is Leon?

    We Went Alien Hunting With Conspiracy Theorists
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No5C6YRzZ74

    Which one?
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 42% (-1)
    CON: 31% (-1)
    LDM: 10% (+1)

    via @DeltapollUK, 21-23 Jul

    (Changes with 14 Apr)

    I miss @HYUFD's translating these polls into seats to show the size of the Tory majority.
    You can see some of those again once Britain's third female/first Asian Prime Minister kisses the Queen's hand. 😉
    Lol, I think we need to see how much shit the contenders throw at each other during the campaign. Some of that shit is going to stick to the Conservative brand imo.

    We haven't had that in the previous two changes: May was unopposed at this stage and Johnson was so far ahead and Hunt too nice to throw the dirt.
    Not sure I've said this before but love your photo, Ben
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,762

    Evening, peeps! Got back from Inverness mid-afternoon. Haven't commented since Thursday because I found the long train rides a little more exhausting than I envisaged, such that on both Thursday and Friday I fell asleep while browsing PB :lol:

    Anyway, did Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh on Thursday, and Inverness to Thurso and Wick on Friday. Which means that, to all intents and purposes, I've done the official National Rail network. Except no! Barking Riverside station opened last Monday during the heatwave, so I'll have to do that this coming Monday (it's closed this weekend, so soon after opening).

    Kyle of Lochalsh:

    Were you awake when passing Reston?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,106
    Toms said:

    Thinking of rulers past,
    has anybody else here seen Private Eye's cover with Johnson's legacy? It combines a loo & poo.

    And what would one do for Trump's ? I think his ego tells him his image should be graven on Mount Rushmore. If so, macabrely I suppose it should include dead people a sort of Satan of the north.

    Poor taste from the Eye; it's vulgar, unfunny and not even particularly apt.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,611
    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    So Truss wants to extend the Rwanda scheme . Next she’ll be promising to put them against a wall to be shot in her desperate attempt to ingratiate herself to the Tory Membership .

    It's a bit racist to equate a well-funded settlement scheme in an African country with being shot.
    He didn't equate the scheme to being shot at all, he suggested an intentionally ridiculous escalation to go a lot further than the scheme.

    You can regard the premise that the Tory membership are only interested in being tougher and tougher on potential migrants/asylum seekers as entirely incorrect, but the quote isn't saying the scheme is like being shot.

    So its not the least bit racist about the scheme, it's comic exaggeration of the Tory membership (comedic value may be in the eye of the beholder) priorities.
    If the comic exaggeration ends up with shooting people, then the starting point has to be seen as something bad, and that's purely a function of the destination.

    If we were talking about exactly the same deal, costing exactly the same amount of money, but done not with Rwanda, but Barbados, then it wouldn't be a case of, "What next? Shooting them?" but "What next? Sending them to the Maldives?"
  • Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 42% (-1)
    CON: 31% (-1)
    LDM: 10% (+1)

    via @DeltapollUK, 21-23 Jul

    (Changes with 14 Apr)

    I miss @HYUFD's translating these polls into seats to show the size of the Tory majority.
    You can see some of those again once Britain's third female/first Asian Prime Minister kisses the Queen's hand. 😉
    Lol, I think we need to see how much shit the contenders throw at each other during the campaign. Some of that shit is going to stick to the Conservative brand imo.

    We haven't had that in the previous two changes: May was unopposed at this stage and Johnson was so far ahead and Hunt too nice to throw the dirt.
    My recollection of 2019 was that it was much more vitriolic than this one.

    Anyway I'm not sure a bit of bloodletting is bad for the soul in a contest. It aids the new leader in saying that this is a fresh start.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,517

    Brendan May: "Global citizen, EU passport holder 🇪🇺, British resident."

    In other words, a wanker.
    Ah yes, that's consensus politics alright
    Let me let you into a little secret: I have zero time for non-patriots.

    If you're not proud of your British citizenship and this country, then you have my contempt.

    If you do, then I am very interested in views no matter what your political angle.
    Patriotism is a generally malign force which has been manipulated many times throughout history for nefarious ends.

    I love Britain for good things it is and does. It is also where I feel comfortable because I speak the language and know the culture, history, laws and customs.

    At the same time I am not proud of all it stands for or has done. Nor would I say Britain is any better as a country than a dozen other similar democratic, liberal western countries. Better for me but not better per se.

    If that earns me your contempt, so be it. I can live with that.
    Ditto. I love our traditions and my default is to support England/GB in a sporting event, but it is not unconditional. If we cheat, use gamesmanship, do dishonourable things etc then that is lost and I also enjoy the traditions of other countries.

    All things being equal I support and love England/Britain. All things aren't always equal though.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,101
    Just for Leon:



  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,215

    Evening, peeps! Got back from Inverness mid-afternoon. Haven't commented since Thursday because I found the long train rides a little more exhausting than I envisaged, such that on both Thursday and Friday I fell asleep while browsing PB :lol:

    Anyway, did Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh on Thursday, and Inverness to Thurso and Wick on Friday. Which means that, to all intents and purposes, I've done the official National Rail network. Except no! Barking Riverside station opened last Monday during the heatwave, so I'll have to do that this coming Monday (it's closed this weekend, so soon after opening).

    Kyle of Lochalsh:

    Congratulations. You definetly saved the best until last!

    It is odd how these lines (the far north line and the Kyle line) have not been exploited for tourism; they are great.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,215

    Wick station is only the 4th most northerly station, after Thurso, Georgemas Junction and Scotscalder, but serves as the terminus of the Far North Line.

    Looks like you got there on a nice day. When I was at Wick it was in the middle of summer but grim. Freezing cold, wet.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,455
    Amazing catch in this evening's women's cricket match incidentally. How do people manage to jump like that?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,362

    Anyway, did Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh on Thursday, and Inverness to Thurso and Wick on Friday. Which means that, to all intents and purposes,

    You haven't done this one

    A charity executive boarded a London-bound sleeper train from Glasgow only to wake at dawn to find it had not moved an inch https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/caledonian-sleeper-passenger-wakes-to-find-hes-gone-nowhere-as-heatwave-halts-train-89gmlzdzf
  • darkage said:

    Evening, peeps! Got back from Inverness mid-afternoon. Haven't commented since Thursday because I found the long train rides a little more exhausting than I envisaged, such that on both Thursday and Friday I fell asleep while browsing PB :lol:

    Anyway, did Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh on Thursday, and Inverness to Thurso and Wick on Friday. Which means that, to all intents and purposes, I've done the official National Rail network. Except no! Barking Riverside station opened last Monday during the heatwave, so I'll have to do that this coming Monday (it's closed this weekend, so soon after opening).

    Kyle of Lochalsh:

    Congratulations. You definetly saved the best until last!

    It is odd how these lines (the far north line and the Kyle line) have not been exploited for tourism; they are great.
    It's all diesel is it? All lines should be electrified, a real mess they are not
This discussion has been closed.