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YouGov CON members poll has Truss 24% ahead – politicalbetting.com

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  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sunak isn't Hilary Clinton. He's Jeb Bush.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    For anyone doing the fasting thing - it does work (I lost 18kg/40lbs doing it a few years ago) but don't get excited by the first week or so - that can just be water coming off.

    I'm now on the eat loads/exercise loads diet, and feel amazing. My mental health correlates with huge amounts of carbs + running.

    You can lose around half a stone in 4 weeks by giving up alcohol.
    Indeed. I have found the hard way that if you wish to lose weight then the alcohol has to go.

    Prof Taylor calls it "liquid toast"

    I tried it because nothing else was working. Amazingly this did work.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    HYUFD said:

    Truss cuts Starmer's lead as preferred PM over her to 5%, 39% to 34%

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1550156191619235843?s=20&t=f37hitfRgvk8yj8YRPXQPg

    It's one poll - can you not retain some semblance of objectivity until you see some further evidence? It may be this R&W poll is an outlier, we don't know.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Liz Truss backs privately funded royal yacht

    "I do support the idea of promoting our trade around the world. What I would be seeking is to get investment into a yacht, looking to the private sector to assist with that to make it financially viable”

    Victory for @christopherhope

    I wonder whether the Monarch will have to finish off each speech with "sponsored by....." and be required to do product placement like a James Bond movie? King Charles will turn to the camera and say "Not your Royal Yacht Lizzy, but Your M&S Royal Yacht Lizzy."
    Why stop at the yacht ?
    There are dozens of royal properties whose naming rights could be sold.
    The Saudi Aramco royal residence, etc.
    The Saudis tried it a while back, sponsoring national institutions but it didn’t really benefit them, seriously nobody equates Mecca Bingo Halls with quality.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Awful attack job on Rishi on C4 news.

    Even going into some support his parents provided to get his first property

    Asian families supporting their offspring to get on the property ladder...totally unheard of.
    Absolutely.

    It's not like Asian heritage people have this utterly fanatical belief that you have failed in life if you haven't made sure your kids have better than you.
    My mate from uni, I have seen second hand car salesman give less of a hard sell than his folks insisting that he must take the deposit for his first house and not go wasting his money on rent.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Truss for PM, JRM for Chancellor, Dorries as ForSec and Patel as HomeSec. The Mail and Express readers will die from orgasmic ecstasty.... The rest of us will get to enjoy the 16th Century :open_mouth:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    HYUFD said:

    Awful attack job on Rishi on C4 news.

    Even going into some support his parents provided to get his first property

    You watch C4 news? Hats off.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    She's decisive on the big issues (or at least looks like she is to the target audience). I suspect people like that. For all our general credulity if someone acts like the dog's bollocks we tend to assume there's something to it.

    But she'd be a damn fool to keep Dorries or JRM on - they're already backing her and no one else will give them a job, they aren't going to switch support if she fails to reward them later.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    kle4 said:

    Liz Truss bids for support from @TheScreamingEagles

    image

    I think I've got a photo of myself wearing that same helmet. I hope she'll wash her hair afterwards... ;)
    Why? Do you have nits?
    That was the joke, yes. I could easily have said: "I hope the next person to use it washes their hair well afterwards," if I wanted to make the joke about Truss.

    BTW, that little museum is quite good if anyone is ever in Ely, and it's just round the corner from the cathedral.
    Maybe things have calmed down enough in this country that they can reveal his final resting place properly.

    Though this plaque must really confuse people who do not know the history


    I was amused to find that Cromwell's hapless son was buried in a small village near Romsey in Southampton. I'd have thought they'd have killed him off.
    Part of the deal when Charles II returned to claim the throne was that only very limited number of head would roll, for their role in the Commonwealth aka Interregnum. Including most notably the Regicides, the men who signed the death warrant of Charles I or otherwise played major part in his trial and execution.

    Which included Oliver Cromwell but NOT Richard Cromwell.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632

    HYUFD said:

    Awful attack job on Rishi on C4 news.

    Even going into some support his parents provided to get his first property

    Asian families supporting their offspring to get on the property ladder...totally unheard of.
    Absolutely.

    It's not like Asian heritage people have this utterly fanatical belief that you have failed in life if you haven't made sure your kids have better than you.
    My mate from uni, I have seen second hand car salesman give less of a hard sell than his folks insisting that he must take the deposit for his first house and not go wasting his money on rent.
    I've posted on here many times that this is exactly what happened to me with my parents.

    Grandma Eagles was insistent that she was going to buy me all the furniture in the house.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Truss for PM, JRM for Chancellor, Dorries as ForSec and Patel as HomeSec. The Mail and Express readers will die from orgasmic ecstasty.... The rest of us will get to enjoy the 16th Century become Revolutionaries and strike a big deal with an American arms company for large supplies of guns, ammunition and crossed silver to kill them with :open_mouth:
    FTFY.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited July 2022
    Sunak must be really regretting not giving votes to Mordaunt.

    I wonder if in fact he did give Mordaunt lots of votes but Mordaunt support just weakened so much at the end that they completely miscalculated it.

    ie Sunak got quite a lot from Kemi and Penny almost zero (or about net zero vs the previous round).
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Truss for PM, JRM for Chancellor, Dorries as ForSec and Patel as HomeSec. The Mail and Express readers will die from orgasmic ecstasty.... The rest of us will get to enjoy the 16th Century become Revolutionaries and strike a big deal with an American arms company for large supplies of guns, ammunition and crossed silver to kill them with :open_mouth:
    FTFY.
    Wooden stakes and hammers might be more appropriate. The Undead seem to be immune to bullets.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Manipulated’ Alzheimer’s data may have misled research for 16 years
    Scandal surrounds 2006 article, keystone of recent dementia work, that critics say is based on ‘shockingly blatant’ evidence tampering
    Sarah Knapton" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/21/manipulated-alzheimers-data-may-have-misled-research-16-years/

    That's pretty dreadful if true.
    More on this, without a paywall.

    https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease
    Scientific fraud is regrettably not that uncommon, but it gets found out one way or another. Sometimes quickly, sometimes not.

    The amyloid hypothesis is in any event looking pretty dubious since numerous clinical trials based on it have failed.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Liz Truss backs privately funded royal yacht

    "I do support the idea of promoting our trade around the world. What I would be seeking is to get investment into a yacht, looking to the private sector to assist with that to make it financially viable”

    Victory for @christopherhope

    I wonder whether the Monarch will have to finish off each speech with "sponsored by....." and be required to do product placement like a James Bond movie? King Charles will turn to the camera and say "Not your Royal Yacht Lizzy, but Your M&S Royal Yacht Lizzy."
    Why stop at the yacht ?
    There are dozens of royal properties whose naming rights could be sold.
    The Saudi Aramco royal residence, etc.
    The Saudis tried it a while back, sponsoring national institutions but it didn’t really benefit them, seriously nobody equates Mecca Bingo Halls with quality.
    Meeca Bingo is great. They even have lots of people praying there...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Truss for PM, JRM for Chancellor, Dorries as ForSec and Patel as HomeSec. The Mail and Express readers will die from orgasmic ecstasty.... The rest of us will get to enjoy the 16th Century become Revolutionaries and strike a big deal with an American arms company for large supplies of guns, ammunition and crossed silver to kill them with :open_mouth:
    FTFY.
    Wooden stakes and hammers might be more appropriate. The Undead seem to be immune to bullets.
    Crossed silver should do the trick.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Liz Truss backs privately funded royal yacht

    "I do support the idea of promoting our trade around the world. What I would be seeking is to get investment into a yacht, looking to the private sector to assist with that to make it financially viable”

    Victory for @christopherhope

    I wonder whether the Monarch will have to finish off each speech with "sponsored by....." and be required to do product placement like a James Bond movie? King Charles will turn to the camera and say "Not your Royal Yacht Lizzy, but Your M&S Royal Yacht Lizzy."
    Why stop at the yacht ?
    There are dozens of royal properties whose naming rights could be sold.
    The Saudi Aramco royal residence, etc.
    The Saudis tried it a while back, sponsoring national institutions but it didn’t really benefit them, seriously nobody equates Mecca Bingo Halls with quality.
    Meeca Bingo is great. They even have lots of people praying there...
    Just imagine the confusion if somebody opened a kebab house in Mecca.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Give us a wee Finnish tip.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Give us a wee Finnish tip.
    I don't think Helsinki is his to give.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292
    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292
    Eabhal said:

    For anyone doing the fasting thing - it does work (I lost 18kg/40lbs doing it a few years ago) but don't get excited by the first week or so - that can just be water coming off.

    I'm now on the eat loads/exercise loads diet, and feel amazing. My mental health correlates with huge amounts of carbs + running.

    What fasting techniques did you use? How long, how often, etc?

    Ta
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Liz Truss backs privately funded royal yacht

    "I do support the idea of promoting our trade around the world. What I would be seeking is to get investment into a yacht, looking to the private sector to assist with that to make it financially viable”

    Victory for @christopherhope

    I wonder whether the Monarch will have to finish off each speech with "sponsored by....." and be required to do product placement like a James Bond movie? King Charles will turn to the camera and say "Not your Royal Yacht Lizzy, but Your M&S Royal Yacht Lizzy."
    Why stop at the yacht ?
    There are dozens of royal properties whose naming rights could be sold.
    The Saudi Aramco royal residence, etc.
    The Saudis tried it a while back, sponsoring national institutions but it didn’t really benefit them, seriously nobody equates Mecca Bingo Halls with quality.
    Meeca Bingo is great. They even have lots of people praying there...
    Just imagine the confusion if somebody opened a kebab house in Mecca.
    Last time I was at Mecca Bingo, you could not get kebabs but chili noodles were definitely available because I ate my friend's portion (she said it was too hot whereas I suspect it was only in the same kitchen as the chili jar)
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    When does this farce of an election finally come to an end?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Manipulated’ Alzheimer’s data may have misled research for 16 years
    Scandal surrounds 2006 article, keystone of recent dementia work, that critics say is based on ‘shockingly blatant’ evidence tampering
    Sarah Knapton" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/21/manipulated-alzheimers-data-may-have-misled-research-16-years/

    That's pretty dreadful if true.
    More on this, without a paywall.

    https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease
    Scientific fraud is regrettably not that uncommon, but it gets found out one way or another. Sometimes quickly, sometimes not.

    The amyloid hypothesis is in any event looking pretty dubious since numerous clinical trials based on it have failed.
    Yes, science generally always corrects, when the inability of others to reproduce results mounts up. There was a minor, innocent, erroneous paper in metal catalysed polymerisation that claimed aluminium was capable of catalysing ethylene polymerisation. In reality the active species was a tiny trace of another metal compound that was super active, but missed in the analysis. Not a case of deliberate fraud, but now accepted as false and the world moves on.

    Genuine frauds are all too common. All data should be free to scrutinise by anyone once published. Without wanting to drag Climate Change in too much, climate science had a big issue with NOT making data available. I hope that’s changing. I expect to make any data that I publish freely available and funding bodies demand this too.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    HYUFD said:

    Awful attack job on Rishi on C4 news.

    Even going into some support his parents provided to get his first property

    Asian families supporting their offspring to get on the property ladder...totally unheard of.
    Absolutely.

    It's not like Asian heritage people have this utterly fanatical belief that you have failed in life if you haven't made sure your kids have better than you.
    My mate from uni, I have seen second hand car salesman give less of a hard sell than his folks insisting that he must take the deposit for his first house and not go wasting his money on rent.
    I've posted on here many times that this is exactly what happened to me with my parents.

    Grandma Eagles was insistent that she was going to buy me all the furniture in the house.
    How about the mirrored ceilings?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    edited July 2022

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Give us a wee Finnish tip.
    Apologies that I am not able to oblige for the time being. I have been asked to hold off and will do so. It is nevertheless extremely serious.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Give us a wee Finnish tip.
    Apologies that I am not able to oblige for the time being. I have been asked to hold off and will do so. It is nevertheless extremely serious.
    Awwwwwwwww.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Truss for PM, JRM for Chancellor, Dorries as ForSec and Patel as HomeSec. The Mail and Express readers will die from orgasmic ecstasty.... The rest of us will get to enjoy the 16th Century become Revolutionaries and strike a big deal with an American arms company for large supplies of guns, ammunition and crossed silver to kill them with :open_mouth:
    FTFY.
    Wooden stakes and hammers might be more appropriate. The Undead seem to be immune to bullets.
    Crossed silver should do the trick.
    Daktari-style tranquilliser darts filled with holy water mixed with silver nitrate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    When does this farce of an election finally come to an end?

    As soon as @Cicero can detonate his bombshell, by the sound of it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    Why don't you believe it is time travellers?

    As the article says, time travel is a theoretical possibility, via quantum physics (according to some)

    If it is time travellers, that explains some of the mysteries - ie how did they get here from stars eight trillion light years away? Answer, they didn't, they are from earth

    Also, it MIGHT explain the enigmatic quality of the data (to put it politely)

    Do I believe it is time travellers? On the balance of probabilities, no, but I can't rule it out entirely
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Diabetes and war

    Robert Tattersall takes a look at the historical impact of war on diabetes, highlighting the seemingly odd occurrence of reduced diabetes prevalence and mortality during wartime food rationing."

    https://diabetesonthenet.com/diabetes-digest/diabetes-and-war/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    When does this farce of an election finally come to an end?

    Immediately, but they won't officially tell us until September.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    ydoethur said:

    When does this farce of an election finally come to an end?

    As soon as @Cicero can detonate his bombshell, by the sound of it.
    This tantalising delicious breadcrumb has been driving me mad for days now. As my 5 year old says “it’s not fair!”. Surely there’s some third party online way finder we can be directed towards without incurring the wrath of govt lawyers?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924
    edited July 2022
    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Give us a wee Finnish tip.
    Apologies that I am not able to oblige for the time being. I have been asked to hold off and will do so. It is nevertheless extremely serious.
    Depends I presume which candidate the Minister is supporting in the leadership and whether they win. If the other candidate wins and sacks them much less of an issue and the whip just withdrawn if very serious issue and comes to light
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited July 2022
    Truss is surely going to have a problem appointing a Chancellor who isn’t completely bonkers, given that they will have no reputation left. The markets are hardly going to happy with huge tax cuts that don’t even claim to be funded.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    I find it incredible and depressing that someone who has so little support amongst her Parliamentary colleagues is going to be voted into power by a small unrepresentative group of voters.

    The Tories are destroying what remains of their USP.

    FWIW Husband is voting for Sunak.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Just watched Starmer interviewed by Beth Rigby .

    I thought he came across well , especially when talking about the stress of being investigated by Durham police .

    I still don’t understand why the public can’t seem to warm to him .

    I’m happy to have a PM who takes the job seriously . Since when did this become a crime .
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    edited July 2022
    This site hates Truss and is losing its shit.

    It's going to drive people away who have something different to say about her, affect the betting and lose people a lot of money.

    Get a grip. Be objective.

    @Gardenwalker one of the few making good observations here tonight. @rcs1000 too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924
    Cyclefree said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    I find it incredible and depressing that someone who has so little support amongst her Parliamentary colleagues is going to be voted into power by a small unrepresentative group of voters.

    The Tories are destroying what remains of their USP.

    FWIW Husband is voting for Sunak.

    The Tories survived IDS, they would survive Truss
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,145
    edited July 2022
    The question I really worry about with Truss is how much damage she could do within the short period of time. A return to a Labour government is obviously to be welcomed ; from my point of view ; but if it's a return to a socially ashen wasteland, what sort of gift is that.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Talking of Italian troubles, everyone remembers the Cyprus confiscation of depositor funds during the Euro crisis, but I ran across this, which I had never heard of, a few days ago:

    "In July 1992 Italy’s Socialist Prime Minister Giuliano Amato imposed a one-off levy on bank accounts. It was a mere 0.6% in comparison with Cyprus’s scheme, and it still left a lasting scar on the country’s financial psyche."

    A blog post on other confiscations:

    https://carolabinder.blogspot.com/2013/03/cyprus-levy-historical-precedents.html
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    I find it incredible and depressing that someone who has so little support amongst her Parliamentary colleagues is going to be voted into power by a small unrepresentative group of voters.

    The Tories are destroying what remains of their USP.

    FWIW Husband is voting for Sunak.

    The Tories survived IDS, they would survive Truss
    A lot easier to survive bad leaders in opposition. Especially ones that never actually get to an election.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    Telescopes focused on large distant objects would be ineffective at picking up small near objects - the tic tac is described as only 40ft long. This is the purpose of Avi Loeb’s (Harvard) Galileo Project. To image the whole sky but looking at near field objects. As he says, to collect replicable evidence with solid chain of custody of the data. He is happy to find nothing but has a good point that it is exactly the role of scientists to try and replicate interesting anomalous data in a controlled way. And the US Navy tic tac incidents certainly represent interesting anomalous data.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    I find it incredible and depressing that someone who has so little support amongst her Parliamentary colleagues is going to be voted into power by a small unrepresentative group of voters.

    The Tories are destroying what remains of their USP.

    FWIW Husband is voting for Sunak.

    The Tories survived IDS, they would survive Truss
    A lot easier to survive bad leaders in opposition. Especially ones that never actually get to an election.
    The Tories also survived 1997 and Labour survived 2010
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Another train journey Sunil has not been on...

    A charity executive boarded a London-bound sleeper train from Glasgow only to wake at dawn to find it had not moved an inch
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/caledonian-sleeper-passenger-wakes-to-find-hes-gone-nowhere-as-heatwave-halts-train-89gmlzdzf
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    "the latest nonsense"

    You aren't really following this story, are you?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    I find it incredible and depressing that someone who has so little support amongst her Parliamentary colleagues is going to be voted into power by a small unrepresentative group of voters.

    The Tories are destroying what remains of their USP.

    FWIW Husband is voting for Sunak.

    The Tories survived IDS, they would survive Truss
    A lot easier to survive bad leaders in opposition. Especially ones that never actually get to an election.
    The Tories also survived 1997 and Labour survived 2010
    1997 didn’t destroy the Tory USP. Everyone accepted the economy was doing well in 1997.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    No need to WTF a cabinet that hasn't been named yet.

    Once she's won she'll be riding high and there isn't going to be another leadership election for a while, I think she can reasonably do a Party Unity thing with people from all the factions in appropriate jobs. For instance leave JRM and Dorries where they are, they're ridiculous but they're not doing any serious damage. Then put Sunak or Javid back in as chancellor, get rid of Patel since she's quite incident-prone and doesn't seem to have endorsed, bring Hunt back in if he's up for it, that sort of thing.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    A warning for Truss seeing herself as the next Thatcher - Thatchers first few years were a complete economic disaster.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    edited July 2022
    nico679 said:

    Just watched Starmer interviewed by Beth Rigby .

    I thought he came across well , especially when talking about the stress of being investigated by Durham police .

    I still don’t understand why the public can’t seem to warm to him .

    I’m happy to have a PM who takes the job seriously . Since when did this become a crime .

    I think he comes across better when he's out campaining than when he's at PMQs, or when he's on telly giving a response to something the government has done. I've no idea why, except maybe he thinks he needs to act more "serious" when he's doing that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited July 2022
    Sunak is so polished and Truss so clearly struggling with her thoughts, why are almost all the vox pop talking Conservative heads on every news channel batting for Truss?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,653
    Andy_JS said:

    "Diabetes and war

    Robert Tattersall takes a look at the historical impact of war on diabetes, highlighting the seemingly odd occurrence of reduced diabetes prevalence and mortality during wartime food rationing."

    https://diabetesonthenet.com/diabetes-digest/diabetes-and-war/

    The relationship is an interesting one, but it is well recognised that calorie restriction is good for longevity.

    One problem though is that low birthweight babies get more diabetes and vascular diseas as adults. So a half century after the war rationing, there may be trouble:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25463063/


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    Why don't you believe it is time travellers?

    As the article says, time travel is a theoretical possibility, via quantum physics (according to some)

    If it is time travellers, that explains some of the mysteries - ie how did they get here from stars eight trillion light years away? Answer, they didn't, they are from earth

    Also, it MIGHT explain the enigmatic quality of the data (to put it politely)

    Do I believe it is time travellers? On the balance of probabilities, no, but I can't rule it out entirely
    Just sharing concerns?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,653
    CatMan said:

    nico679 said:

    Just watched Starmer interviewed by Beth Rigby .

    I thought he came across well , especially when talking about the stress of being investigated by Durham police .

    I still don’t understand why the public can’t seem to warm to him .

    I’m happy to have a PM who takes the job seriously . Since when did this become a crime .

    I think he comes across better when he's out campaining than when he's at PMQs, or when he's on telly giving a response to something the government has done. I've no idea why, except maybe he thinks he needs to act more "serious" when he's doing that.
    Yeah, he needs to chill a bit, get out of his suit and tie, and be himself.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    For anyone doing the fasting thing - it does work (I lost 18kg/40lbs doing it a few years ago) but don't get excited by the first week or so - that can just be water coming off.

    I'm now on the eat loads/exercise loads diet, and feel amazing. My mental health correlates with huge amounts of carbs + running.

    You can lose around half a stone in 4 weeks by giving up alcohol.
    Indeed. I have found the hard way that if you wish to lose weight then the alcohol has to go.

    Prof Taylor calls it "liquid toast"

    It's fairly boring but exercising more and reducing sugar, salt and alcohol intake alongside eating more veg, oily fish and lean meat makes for general health improvement.

    I think sleeping is very important - not so much masterly inactivity in general but actual proper sleep.
    Less stodge = less Stodge?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    "the latest nonsense"

    You aren't really following this story, are you?
    More than you might think, but i am very skpetical. Fortean Times had an article this month. There is nothing that’s been shown that has convinced me of anything that might be inexplicable.
    Sadly too many people WANT it to be aliens and thus drives their logic.
    It might just as likely be Angels.
    I keep hearing that the good stuff doesn’t get released. I call bollocks, it doesn’t exist. I’ve been following Fortean stuff since I was 10.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    alex_ said:

    A warning for Truss seeing herself as the next Thatcher - Thatchers first few years were a complete economic disaster.

    And Truss will only get two.

    Well, actually one as there will be a leadership election next summer.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    I find it incredible and depressing that someone who has so little support amongst her Parliamentary colleagues is going to be voted into power by a small unrepresentative group of voters.

    The Tories are destroying what remains of their USP.

    FWIW Husband is voting for Sunak.

    The Tories survived IDS, they would survive Truss
    A lot easier to survive bad leaders in opposition. Especially ones that never actually get to an election.
    The Tories also survived 1997 and Labour survived 2010
    1997 didn’t destroy the Tory USP. Everyone accepted the economy was doing well in 1997.
    Anyway the question at the moment is not the survival of the Tory Party. It’s the survival of the country.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    You are genuinely thick, then. "Occam's razor" is the most overused meme in history, it is merely an incredibly unreliable rule of thumb, it says (in the popular misunderstanding of it) it looks as if the earth is static and the sun revolves around it once a day, so obv...

    You I think are the guy who said that global warming doesn't really matter because people already live in really hot and really cold places?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    This site hates Truss and is losing its shit.

    It's going to drive people away who have something different to say about her, affect the betting and lose people a lot of money.

    Get a grip. Be objective.

    @Gardenwalker one of the few making good observations here tonight. @rcs1000 too.

    I have lost count of how many people in the last few days have messaged me to say how shocked they are that truss might win. These are generally fairly apolitical people but centre right leaning, rarely if ever want to discuss politics but they do
    vote. Classic Bluewallers you might say.

    On the one hand she starts with such low expectations she must surely outperform. On the other hand, she may find no matter what she does the public have already made up their minds on her: loose cannon, cyborg etc…

    Her Cabinet will make or break her. Get rid of Rees Mogg and Mad Nads. Retain Wallace and Gove. Find big jobs for Penny, Tugs, Kemi. Persuade back Hunt even. Then she has a chance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    I find it incredible and depressing that someone who has so little support amongst her Parliamentary colleagues is going to be voted into power by a small unrepresentative group of voters.

    The Tories are destroying what remains of their USP.

    FWIW Husband is voting for Sunak.

    The Tories survived IDS, they would survive Truss
    A lot easier to survive bad leaders in opposition. Especially ones that never actually get to an election.
    The Tories also survived 1997 and Labour survived 2010
    1997 didn’t destroy the Tory USP. Everyone accepted the economy was doing well in 1997.

    They survived defeats in 1945 after the depression and 1974 with sky high inflation and strikes too
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    For anyone doing the fasting thing - it does work (I lost 18kg/40lbs doing it a few years ago) but don't get excited by the first week or so - that can just be water coming off.

    I'm now on the eat loads/exercise loads diet, and feel amazing. My mental health correlates with huge amounts of carbs + running.

    You can lose around half a stone in 4 weeks by giving up alcohol.
    Indeed. I have found the hard way that if you wish to lose weight then the alcohol has to go.

    Prof Taylor calls it "liquid toast"

    It's fairly boring but exercising more and reducing sugar, salt and alcohol intake alongside eating more veg, oily fish and lean meat makes for general health improvement.

    I think sleeping is very important - not so much masterly inactivity in general but actual proper sleep.
    Less stodge = less Stodge?
    But hopefully not vice versa
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited July 2022

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    No need to WTF a cabinet that hasn't been named yet.

    Once she's won she'll be riding high and there isn't going to be another leadership election for a while, I think she can reasonably do a Party Unity thing with people from all the factions in appropriate jobs. For instance leave JRM and Dorries where they are, they're ridiculous but they're not doing any serious damage. Then put Sunak or Javid back in as chancellor, get rid of Patel since she's quite incident-prone and doesn't seem to have endorsed, bring Hunt back in if he's up for it, that sort of thing.
    Dorries - depends what your views are on channel4. The idea that she could make Sunak Chancellor is quite amusing though!

    “Your policies are economic lunacy”. “ How do you fancy implementing them?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    Why don't you believe it is time travellers?

    As the article says, time travel is a theoretical possibility, via quantum physics (according to some)

    If it is time travellers, that explains some of the mysteries - ie how did they get here from stars eight trillion light years away? Answer, they didn't, they are from earth

    Also, it MIGHT explain the enigmatic quality of the data (to put it politely)

    Do I believe it is time travellers? On the balance of probabilities, no, but I can't rule it out entirely
    I just think it is really verging into the realms of fifties and sixties sci fi. It cannot be ruled out but I think it highly unlikely.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    IshmaelZ said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    You are genuinely thick, then. "Occam's razor" is the most overused meme in history, it is merely an incredibly unreliable rule of thumb, it says (in the popular misunderstanding of it) it looks as if the earth is static and the sun revolves around it once a day, so obv...

    You I think are the guy who said that global warming doesn't really matter because people already live in really hot and really cold places?
    Don’t think I said that, certainly not in that way. My point is people who want to believe it’s aliens have no other possible explanations in their decision tree. It’s either aliens or some other earth tech that no one know about. Why limit it to that?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    "the latest nonsense"

    You aren't really following this story, are you?
    More than you might think, but i am very skpetical. Fortean Times had an article this month. There is nothing that’s been shown that has convinced me of anything that might be inexplicable.
    Sadly too many people WANT it to be aliens and thus drives their logic.
    It might just as likely be Angels.
    I keep hearing that the good stuff doesn’t get released. I call bollocks, it doesn’t exist. I’ve been following Fortean stuff since I was 10.
    And again - big sigh - if this is your position you have to explain the antics of the entire American Establishment from President Obama to Senator Rubio to the new head of NASA to the ex heads of the CIA, the US Navy, MI, journalists at the NYT, WashPo, Newsweek, the Hill, CNN, and so on

    Do you REALLY think that this entire UAP story can be explained by "glitches in new shiny kit", and no one has worked this out in the USA?

    Occam's razor, which you profess to wield, suggests your explanation is twaddle
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    alex_ said:

    Truss is surely going to have a problem appointing a Chancellor who isn’t completely bonkers, given that they will have no reputation left. The markets are hardly going to happy with huge tax cuts that don’t even claim to be funded.

    Would Rishi accept if offered the job?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    IshmaelZ said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    You are genuinely thick, then. "Occam's razor" is the most overused meme in history, it is merely an incredibly unreliable rule of thumb, it says (in the popular misunderstanding of it) it looks as if the earth is static and the sun revolves around it once a day, so obv...

    You I think are the guy who said that global warming doesn't really matter because people already live in really hot and really cold places?
    Don’t think I said that, certainly not in that way. My point is people who want to believe it’s aliens
    have no other possible explanations in their decision tree. It’s either aliens or some other earth tech that no one know about. Why limit it to that?
    There’s lots of potential exotic explanations but it’s useful for most purposes to catch-all them as “aliens”. What is meant is that they are intelligently designed/controlled but not made by us.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    When does this farce of an election finally come to an end?

    5th September. Winner goes to the Palace the next day.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    IDS in drag is not going to cut the mustard. The difference of course is that IDS was never Prime Minister.

    The more you deconstruct Liz Truss the worse it gets. Confidence is just going to collapse and the freedom of action for a chaotic government will be very limited. In the end who are her allies in the Parliamentary party and the Cabinet? Is JRM pitching for Chancellor? Does she leave Patel or Dorries in place? This could be an even worse cabinet than Johnson´s last gasp. In short, WTF?

    Give us a wee Finnish tip.
    Apologies that I am not able to oblige for the time being. I have been asked to hold off and will do so. It is nevertheless extremely serious.
    Thank you.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    "the latest nonsense"

    You aren't really following this story, are you?
    More than you might think, but i am very skpetical. Fortean Times had an article this month. There is nothing that’s been shown that has convinced me of anything that might be inexplicable.
    Sadly too many people WANT it to be aliens and thus drives their logic.
    It might just as likely be Angels.
    I keep hearing that the good stuff doesn’t get released. I call bollocks, it doesn’t exist. I’ve been following Fortean stuff since I was 10.
    And again - big sigh - if this is your position you have to explain the antics of the entire American Establishment from President Obama to Senator Rubio to the new head of NASA to the ex heads of the CIA, the US Navy, MI, journalists at the NYT, WashPo, Newsweek, the Hill, CNN, and so on

    Do you REALLY think that this entire UAP story can be explained by "glitches in new shiny kit", and no one has worked this out in the USA?

    Occam's razor, which you profess to wield, suggests your explanation is twaddle
    There are many possible explanations for what some Americans are doing. Have they suddenly become rational again? I thought we were still doing Gilead? It could be a pitch for more money. It might be some ‘believers’ in high office. It could be anything.
    I go back to my position of the hugely increased access to recording technology across the globe, and the staggering lack of decent photos of these UAP, or to use the old name, UFOs.

  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited July 2022
    nico679 said:

    Just watched Starmer interviewed by Beth Rigby .

    I thought he came across well , especially when talking about the stress of being investigated by Durham police .

    I still don’t understand why the public can’t seem to warm to him .

    I’m happy to have a PM who takes the job seriously . Since when did this become a crime .

    Yep. I agree. I think that many people are to some extent passive: they want to be inspired and entertained, instead of favoring a stable decently honest government so they can pursue their own stuff.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    A bit of an off-the-wall one re Truss’ chances and GE 2024.

    A bit morbid, but there has to be a fairly substantial chance of London Bridge in the next 2 years.

    Might a rally round the flag effort actually help the incumbent?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    Truss is surely going to have a problem appointing a Chancellor who isn’t completely bonkers, given that they will have no reputation left. The markets are hardly going to happy with huge tax cuts that don’t even claim to be funded.

    Would Rishi accept if offered the job?
    Truss’s position is that Sunak is killing growth and wrecking the economy. Sunak’s position is that Truss’s flagship economic policies are lunacy. It surely isn’t a serious possibility.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    This site hates Truss and is losing its shit.

    It's going to drive people away who have something different to say about her, affect the betting and lose people a lot of money.

    Get a grip. Be objective.

    @Gardenwalker one of the few making good observations here tonight. @rcs1000 too.

    I don't hate her. She's saying the economic system isn't working for folk.
    She's not wrong either.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Andy_JS said:

    When does this farce of an election finally come to an end?

    5th September. Winner goes to the Palace the next day.
    If her Maj can hold on until then then at least the fat clown wont be leading the nation in mourning which would mainly involve him telling us how she could not reign without his constant help and she had told him no premier was greater etc etc.

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    dixiedean said:

    This site hates Truss and is losing its shit.

    It's going to drive people away who have something different to say about her, affect the betting and lose people a lot of money.

    Get a grip. Be objective.

    @Gardenwalker one of the few making good observations here tonight. @rcs1000 too.

    I don't hate her. She's saying the economic system isn't working for folk.
    She's not wrong either.
    Saying the system isn’t working doesn’t mean her “solutions” will make things better.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    "the latest nonsense"

    You aren't really following this story, are you?
    More than you might think, but i am very skpetical. Fortean Times had an article this month. There is nothing that’s been shown that has convinced me of anything that might be inexplicable.
    Sadly too many people WANT it to be aliens and thus drives their logic.
    It might just as likely be Angels.
    I keep hearing that the good stuff doesn’t get released. I call bollocks, it doesn’t exist. I’ve been following Fortean stuff since I was 10.
    And again - big sigh - if this is your position you have to explain the antics of the entire American Establishment from President Obama to Senator Rubio to the new head of NASA to the ex heads of the CIA, the US Navy, MI, journalists at the NYT, WashPo, Newsweek, the Hill, CNN, and so on


    Do you REALLY think that this entire UAP story can be explained by "glitches in new shiny kit", and no one has worked this out in the USA?

    Occam's razor, which you profess to wield, suggests your explanation is twaddle
    Anyone talking about mere glitches in kit has not paid attention to the totality of evidence and testimony, it’s as simple as that. There IS something highly puzzling going on. None of us can know what it is but we can certainly apply ourselves in speculating.

    This is also bang on mission for this website, since this has become a major political story in the US (and elsewhere in fact), with ongoing rounds of fresh legislation, quangos and congressional oversight sessions and hearings.

    What’s disappointed me in the last 18months since I first raised the topic here, is that no one more expert than I in the machinations of US congressional politics has been able to better explain what’s going on from a political perspective, or even really attempt to.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924

    Andy_JS said:

    When does this farce of an election finally come to an end?

    5th September. Winner goes to the Palace the next day.
    If her Maj can hold on until then then at least the fat clown wont be leading the nation in mourning which would mainly involve him telling us how she could not reign without his constant help and she had told him no premier was greater etc etc.

    At least Boris has always been a monarchist, unlike former Republicans Truss and Starmer, allegedly now converted to the Crown
  • @BartholomewRoberts do you agree or disagree that voting Labour in 2019 was endorsing anti-Semitism
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924
    edited July 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    Truss is surely going to have a problem appointing a Chancellor who isn’t completely bonkers, given that they will have no reputation left. The markets are hardly going to happy with huge tax cuts that don’t even claim to be funded.

    Would Rishi accept if offered the job?
    Rishi is more likely to be offered Ambassador to Moscow by Truss or Ambassador to Pakistan than to be her Chancellor, most likely it will be Kwarteng or Clarke
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    moonshine said:

    This site hates Truss and is losing its shit.

    It's going to drive people away who have something different to say about her, affect the betting and lose people a lot of money.

    Get a grip. Be objective.

    @Gardenwalker one of the few making good observations here tonight. @rcs1000 too.

    I have lost count of how many people in the last few days have messaged me to say how shocked they are that truss might win. These are generally fairly apolitical people but centre right leaning, rarely if ever want to discuss politics but they do
    vote. Classic Bluewallers you might say.

    On the one hand she starts with such low expectations she must surely outperform. On the other hand, she may find no matter what she does the public have already made up their minds on her: loose cannon, cyborg etc…

    Her Cabinet will make or break her. Get rid of Rees Mogg and Mad Nads. Retain Wallace and Gove. Find big jobs for Penny, Tugs, Kemi. Persuade back Hunt even. Then she has a chance.
    Barring a depth charge that sinks her from the past or she blows up in the debates then Truss will be PM.

    And the Tories will have swapped one albatross for an albatruss around their necks and 2024 is lost.

    I don't hate her, but she definitely has the air of someone who the job will send bonkers within months as it all goes to her head and the desire to be the most radical ever PM blows up spectacularly.

    Pass the popcorn, Jeeves.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    "the latest nonsense"

    You aren't really following this story, are you?
    More than you might think, but i am very skpetical. Fortean Times had an article this month. There is nothing that’s been shown that has convinced me of anything that might be inexplicable.
    Sadly too many people WANT it to be aliens and thus drives their logic.
    It might just as likely be Angels.
    I keep hearing that the good stuff doesn’t get released. I call bollocks, it doesn’t exist. I’ve been following Fortean stuff since I was 10.
    And again - big sigh - if this is your position you have to explain the antics of the entire American Establishment from President Obama to Senator Rubio to the new head of NASA to the ex heads of the CIA, the US Navy, MI, journalists at the NYT, WashPo, Newsweek, the Hill, CNN, and so on

    Do you REALLY think that this entire UAP story can be explained by "glitches in new shiny kit", and no one has worked this out in the USA?

    Occam's razor, which you profess to wield, suggests your explanation is twaddle
    There are many possible explanations for what some Americans are doing. Have they suddenly become rational again? I thought we were still doing Gilead? It could be a pitch for more money. It might be some ‘believers’ in high office. It could be anything.
    I go back to my position of the hugely increased access to recording technology across the globe, and the staggering lack of decent photos of these UAP, or to use the old name, UFOs.

    So all you have is "there are many possible explanations" which allows you to not actually specify one, because if you do then we can scrutinise it, and it will probably come up embarrassingly short. As most of them do. Because this really is a profound mystery, not "glitches on lenses"
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,653
    edited July 2022

    Sunak is so polished and Truss so clearly struggling with her thoughts, why are almost all the vox pop talking Conservative heads on every news channel batting for Truss?

    Could be any number of reasons, including some less salubrious ones.

    I think though that each represent a faction of Johnsonism.

    Sunak is the big spender, desperate to be liked, who has all the social polish of a top Public School Education, and oozes privilege.

    Truss is the ruthless opportunist blonde, who changes policy when the wind changes, and leaves a trail of minor scandals. Full of patriotic bravado and puffery.

    Though both lack the jovial self depreciating falsity of the "Boris" stage act.

    So we get a fraction of what went before.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    "the latest nonsense"

    You aren't really following this story, are you?
    More than you might think, but i am very skpetical. Fortean Times had an article this month. There is nothing that’s been shown that has convinced me of anything that might be inexplicable.
    Sadly too many people WANT it to be aliens and thus drives their logic.
    It might just as likely be Angels.
    I keep hearing that the good stuff doesn’t get released. I call bollocks, it doesn’t exist. I’ve been following Fortean stuff since I was 10.
    And again - big sigh - if this is your position you have to explain the antics of the entire American Establishment from President Obama to Senator Rubio to the new head of NASA to the ex heads of the CIA, the US Navy, MI, journalists at the NYT, WashPo, Newsweek, the Hill, CNN, and so on


    Do you REALLY think that this entire UAP story can be explained by "glitches in new shiny kit", and no one has worked this out in the USA?

    Occam's razor, which you profess to wield, suggests your explanation is twaddle
    Anyone talking about mere glitches in kit has not paid attention to the totality of evidence and testimony, it’s as simple as that. There IS something highly puzzling going on. None of us can know what it is but we can certainly apply ourselves in speculating.

    This is also bang on mission for this website, since this has become a major political story in the US (and elsewhere in fact), with ongoing rounds of fresh legislation, quangos and congressional oversight sessions and hearings.

    What’s disappointed me in the last 18months since I first raised the topic here, is that no one more expert than I in the machinations of US congressional politics has been able to better explain what’s going on from a political perspective, or even really attempt to.
    At heart I think you believe it’s aliens. I don’t think it is, any more than it was when Second World War pilots saw Foo Fighters, or the first reports of something skimming like flying saucers, or the Warminster flap of the 60s and 70s, or Travis Walton or any of it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    alex_ said:

    dixiedean said:

    This site hates Truss and is losing its shit.

    It's going to drive people away who have something different to say about her, affect the betting and lose people a lot of money.

    Get a grip. Be objective.

    @Gardenwalker one of the few making good observations here tonight. @rcs1000 too.

    I don't hate her. She's saying the economic system isn't working for folk.
    She's not wrong either.
    Saying the system isn’t working doesn’t mean her “solutions” will make things better.
    Not it doesn't at all.
    But it is at least a start of a conversation that hasn't been had. Except by Corbyn.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    Truss is surely going to have a problem appointing a Chancellor who isn’t completely bonkers, given that they will have no reputation left. The markets are hardly going to happy with huge tax cuts that don’t even claim to be funded.

    Would Rishi accept if offered the job?
    Rishi is more likely to be offered Ambassador to Moscow by Truss or Ambassador to Pakistan than to be her Chancellor, most likely it will be Kwarteng or Clarke
    Lilico has pointed out that Truss and Sunak are so split on the economics that he could not possibly be in her cabinet and maintain Cabinet responsibility levels.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    "the latest nonsense"

    You aren't really following this story, are you?
    More than you might think, but i am very skpetical. Fortean Times had an article this month. There is nothing that’s been shown that has convinced me of anything that might be inexplicable.
    Sadly too many people WANT it to be aliens and thus drives their logic.
    It might just as likely be Angels.
    I keep hearing that the good stuff doesn’t get released. I call bollocks, it doesn’t exist. I’ve been following Fortean stuff since I was 10.
    And again - big sigh - if this is your position you have to explain the antics of the entire American Establishment from President Obama to Senator Rubio to the new head of NASA to the ex heads of the CIA, the US Navy, MI, journalists at the NYT, WashPo, Newsweek, the Hill, CNN, and so on


    Do you REALLY think that this entire UAP story can be explained by "glitches in new shiny kit", and no one has worked this out in the USA?

    Occam's razor, which you profess to wield, suggests your explanation is twaddle
    Anyone talking about mere glitches in kit has not paid attention to the totality of evidence and testimony, it’s as simple as that. There IS something highly puzzling going on. None of us can know what it is but we can certainly apply ourselves in speculating.

    This is also bang on mission for this website, since this has become a major political story in the US (and elsewhere in fact), with ongoing rounds of fresh legislation, quangos and congressional oversight sessions and hearings.

    What’s disappointed me in the last 18months since I first raised the topic here, is that no one more expert than I in the machinations of US congressional politics has been able to better explain what’s going on from a political perspective, or even really attempt to.
    Hmm, is it coincidence your username is that of a UK WW2 radar-spoofing bit of kit?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    dixiedean said:

    This site hates Truss and is losing its shit.

    It's going to drive people away who have something different to say about her, affect the betting and lose people a lot of money.

    Get a grip. Be objective.

    @Gardenwalker one of the few making good observations here tonight. @rcs1000 too.

    I don't hate her. She's saying the economic system isn't working for folk.
    She's not wrong either.
    I'm so old that I thought that Brexit had fixed that because it was all the neo-liberal european technocrats fault.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    We have one poll. One.
    There’s not enough to go on, really.

    Which is annoying for PBers because we have been treated to a veritable feast of political news for months.

    Personally I am eating humble pie, as I long thought the “anti-Truss” vote was big enough to exclude her. Steve Baker was right and I was wrong.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    moonshine said:

    This site hates Truss and is losing its shit.

    It's going to drive people away who have something different to say about her, affect the betting and lose people a lot of money.

    Get a grip. Be objective.

    @Gardenwalker one of the few making good observations here tonight. @rcs1000 too.

    I have lost count of how many people in the last few days have messaged me to say how shocked they are that truss might win. These are generally fairly apolitical people but centre right leaning, rarely if ever want to discuss politics but they do
    vote. Classic Bluewallers you might say.

    On the one hand she starts with such low expectations she must surely outperform. On the other hand, she may find no matter what she does the public have already made up their minds on her: loose cannon, cyborg etc…

    Her Cabinet will make or break her. Get rid of Rees Mogg and Mad Nads. Retain Wallace and Gove. Find big jobs for Penny, Tugs, Kemi. Persuade back Hunt even. Then she has a chance.
    Barring a depth charge that sinks her from the past or she blows up in the debates then Truss will be PM.

    And the Tories will have swapped one albatross for an albatruss around their necks and 2024 is lost.

    I don't hate her, but she definitely has the air of someone who the job will send bonkers within months as it all goes to her head and the desire to be the most radical ever PM blows up spectacularly.

    Pass the popcorn, Jeeves.

    And yet. Just maybe, she’ll get things right? I always start every PM’s term with a promise to give them a chance, even if I voted against them. I’ll afford her the same treatment. I hope my benefit of the doubt can last longer than lunchtime on her first day with the initial cabinet appointments. Let’s see!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    Truss is surely going to have a problem appointing a Chancellor who isn’t completely bonkers, given that they will have no reputation left. The markets are hardly going to happy with huge tax cuts that don’t even claim to be funded.

    Would Rishi accept if offered the job?
    Rishi is more likely to be offered Ambassador to Moscow by Truss or Ambassador to Pakistan than to be her Chancellor, most likely it will be Kwarteng or Clarke
    Lilico has pointed out that Truss and Sunak are so split on the economics that he could not possibly be in her cabinet and maintain Cabinet responsibility levels.

    However. That didn't prevent her from doing exactly that.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited July 2022

    moonshine said:

    This site hates Truss and is losing its shit.

    It's going to drive people away who have something different to say about her, affect the betting and lose people a lot of money.

    Get a grip. Be objective.

    @Gardenwalker one of the few making good observations here tonight. @rcs1000 too.

    I have lost count of how many people in the last few days have messaged me to say how shocked they are that truss might win. These are generally fairly apolitical people but centre right leaning, rarely if ever want to discuss politics but they do
    vote. Classic Bluewallers you might say.

    On the one hand she starts with such low expectations she must surely outperform. On the other hand, she may find no matter what she does the public have already made up their minds on her: loose cannon, cyborg etc…

    Her Cabinet will make or break her. Get rid of Rees Mogg and Mad Nads. Retain Wallace and Gove. Find big jobs for Penny, Tugs, Kemi. Persuade back Hunt even. Then she has a chance.
    Barring a depth charge that sinks her from the past or she blows up in the debates then Truss will be PM.

    And the Tories will have swapped one albatross for an albatruss around their necks and 2024 is lost.

    I don't hate her, but she definitely has the air of someone who the job will send bonkers within months as it all goes to her head and the desire to be the most radical ever PM blows up spectacularly.

    Pass the popcorn, Jeeves.

    Every time I hear Truss speak I can't stop thinking of Miranda Richardson's Queenie in Blackadder II.

    Let's hope the power doesn't go to her head quite as much.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Popular Mechanics suggests (alongside British astronaut Tim Peake) that the UFOs might be terrestrial time travellers

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40665405/are-ufos-time-traveling-humans/

    If they are aliens travelling from outside the solar system how have they not been spotted given the amount of star gazing that goes on. It is not feasible.

    As for time travellers I just don’t believe that either.
    When radar was in its infancy there were many unexplained things picked up, often known as angels. Better tech and better understanding meant we don’t see them anymore. I would not be surprised if the latest nonsense is similar - glitches in new shiny kit, seemingly showing solid objects performing gravity and physics defying acts.
    And from there people leap to either aliens, or advanced earth kit that we know nothing about.
    I miss Occam.
    "the latest nonsense"

    You aren't really following this story, are you?
    More than you might think, but i am very skpetical. Fortean Times had an article this month. There is nothing that’s been shown that has convinced me of anything that might be inexplicable.
    Sadly too many people WANT it to be aliens and thus drives their logic.
    It might just as likely be Angels.
    I keep hearing that the good stuff doesn’t get released. I call bollocks, it doesn’t exist. I’ve been following Fortean stuff since I was 10.
    And again - big sigh - if this is your position you have to explain the antics of the entire American Establishment from President Obama to Senator Rubio to the new head of NASA to the ex heads of the CIA, the US Navy, MI, journalists at the NYT, WashPo, Newsweek, the Hill, CNN, and so on

    Do you REALLY think that this entire UAP story can be explained by "glitches in new shiny kit", and no one has worked this out in the USA?

    Occam's razor, which you profess to wield, suggests your explanation is twaddle
    There are many possible explanations for what some Americans are doing. Have they suddenly become rational again? I thought we were still doing Gilead? It could be a pitch for more money. It might be some ‘believers’ in high office. It could be anything.
    I go back to my position of the hugely increased access to recording technology across the globe, and the staggering lack of decent photos of these UAP, or to use the old name, UFOs.

    So all you have is "there are many possible explanations" which allows you to not actually specify one, because if you do then we can scrutinise it, and it will probably come up embarrassingly short. As most of them do. Because this really is a profound mystery, not "glitches on lenses"
    Where is all the evidence? If it’s the stuff that’s in the mainstream it’s weak. It’s often said that way better stuff exist- where is it?
    A side question - do you believe in ghosts? I’ve never seen (or heard) one. I suspect most cases devolve to the brain trying to make sense of poor data, like Australian aunt who saw a barn owl at night and turned it into the ghost of a little old lady.

    Pilots, no matter how well trained and experienced can still be wrong, and can still be confused.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,292
    This is an excellent graphic on the UAP conundrum: helps to visualise what might and might not be happening


  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    dixiedean said:

    This site hates Truss and is losing its shit.

    It's going to drive people away who have something different to say about her, affect the betting and lose people a lot of money.

    Get a grip. Be objective.

    @Gardenwalker one of the few making good observations here tonight. @rcs1000 too.

    I don't hate her. She's saying the economic system isn't working for folk.
    She's not wrong either.
    I'm so old that I thought that Brexit had fixed that because it was all the neo-liberal european technocrats fault.
    No, Brexit fixed it because we could untether ourselves from Euro-sclerosis.
This discussion has been closed.