I thought Tugendhat was posh, stiff, formal and about 20 years out of date.
Maybe it's nostalgia.
I agree. I felt he is stupid. Just stupid. Why am I even bothering to sugar the pill? He's DIM
I know his type and he's like Ben Wallace. Fucking stupid if above average - IQ about 120 - but due to posh class status they over-estimate themselves by an order of magnitude. I often wonder if Cameron was the same
Yes but posh, patrician but not super bright PMs are often reasonably good eg Macmillan, Blair and Cameron, arguably Attlee and Churchill.
The most intelligent PM we have had in the last 40 years was probably the non posh Gordon Brown which says it all
There was Wilson, mind going further back.
Wilson did some significant social reforms and kept out of Vietnam but managed the economy pretty poorly
Massive advances in standard of living for your average punter between 64 and 77. TV, telephone, central heating, washing machines, cars, double glazing, even indoor toilets became the norm, not the exception.
I wonder whether he ever imagined that the white heat of technology would eventually result in wokies on social media cancelling everyone they disagreed with?
I thought Tugendhat was posh, stiff, formal and about 20 years out of date.
Maybe it's nostalgia.
I agree. I felt he is stupid. Just stupid. Why am I even bothering to sugar the pill? He's DIM
I know his type and he's like Ben Wallace. Fucking stupid if above average - IQ about 120 - but due to posh class status they over-estimate themselves by an order of magnitude. I often wonder if Cameron was the same
Yes but posh, patrician but not super bright PMs are often reasonably good eg Macmillan, Blair and Cameron, arguably Attlee and Churchill.
The most intelligent PM we have had in the last 40 years was probably the non posh Gordon Brown which says it all
There was Wilson, mind going further back.
Wilson did some significant social reforms and kept out of Vietnam but managed the economy pretty poorly
Massive advances in standard of living for your average punter between 64 and 77. TV, telephone, central heating, washing machines, cars, double glazing, even indoor toilets became the norm, not the exception.
Also rising inflation, especially in his final term, strikes and an IMF bailout
I still think that Wilson was the best PM of my lifetime.
Opinium @OpiniumResearch · 1h Among Tory 2019 voters it was a neck and neck between Tugendhat and Sunak.
However, among Conservative swing voters (who will decide whether the Tories hold their majority at the next election) the results were: Tugendhat 33% Sunak 28% Mordaunt 14% Badenoch 12% Truss 6%
I can't see Tugendhat going down particularly well in the Red Wall for now, although I think he's definitely a Tory prospect for the future. Penny can reach out to those kinds of constituencies, and Rishi may be able to charm them Blair-style.
The Red Wall is no different to anywhere else. Just slightly different demographic proportions.
I speak for the nation and took part in this poll and called it for Tom, then Penny, then Rishi, then Badenoch in the distance, and Truss, oh dear.
Sunak in a different league imo despite the derivative Blairisms. Easily the best performer on both style and substance. It was like a lead singer with his backing band. If I had a vote that's where it would go and it wouldn't be a tough choice.
Mordaunt seems vacant. Tug is a bit stodgy. Badenoch is miles from PM material. Truss is just bad on every level. Poundshop Maggie is too kind.
But all 5 would be fabulous PMs compared to the last bloke. This was my main feeling watching the debate. Sheer joy and relief that Boris Johnson is history. It's been a few days now but the heart remains cockled that he's gone.
How on earth did the Tories ever think it was ok to foist that man on the country? This is the question they'll be hoping doesn't occur to the electorate come the time. I hope it will.
It was the electorate themselves who gave 'that man' a majority of 80 to deliver Brexit and beat Corbyn
Does anyone think Truss could be next out after that?
No. The hardcore ERG types have nowhere else to go.
Kemi. She'll pick up a lot of those braverman votes and probably quite a few of the TT votes as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the final three becomes Kemi, Rishi and Penny and a final two of Rishi vs one of the other two.
There was something very flirty about Kemi saying to TT "he'll think differently when he's a minister." My dream is they have now hooked up at the afterparty and will announce a joint bid in the morning
I looked at the horse in High Plains Drifter. A fancy quarter horse. They are bred for speed over short distance (quarter mile racing, hence the name), roping, and barrel racing. High back end for power and turning. No good for jumping or dressage where you want the withers (shoulders) higher than the butt. But quarter horses are the biggest breed in the US and the best ones go for mega bucks.
Here is our fancy baby, a colt born this spring.
*Very* nice
It was the level of schooling rather than conformation that impressed me about the HPD horse
News of the day is my hunter mare has been scanned in foal to an ID stallion, huzzah!
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
It didn't help that most of Brown's premiership was the backwash from the worst economic crisis in most people's living memory, worse than Covid, worse than this one because the whole infrastructure was at risk of going under, and people had to pay for it or lose it.
I thought Tugendhat was posh, stiff, formal and about 20 years out of date.
Maybe it's nostalgia.
I agree. I felt he is stupid. Just stupid. Why am I even bothering to sugar the pill? He's DIM
I know his type and he's like Ben Wallace. Fucking stupid if above average - IQ about 120 - but due to posh class status they over-estimate themselves by an order of magnitude. I often wonder if Cameron was the same
Yes but posh, patrician but not super bright PMs are often reasonably good eg Macmillan, Blair and Cameron, arguably Attlee and Churchill.
The most intelligent PM we have had in the last 40 years was probably the non posh Gordon Brown which says it all
Fundamentally disagree. Brown did not have a single profound original thought, nor did he adopt such notably
Neither even did Thatcher, she took her ideas from intellectuals and think tanks
Which nails the main reason why Johnson turned into failure.
The good leaders know their failings and bring capable people in around them to compensate - whether Thatcher relying on Joseph for ideas or Whitelaw for antenna and diplomacy - or Reagan willing to defer to his very capable team including titans like Kissinger.
The clown was all too aware of his own failings and petrified of bringing intelligent capable politicians into his team for fear they would expose his flaws and emerge as potential rivals.
Out in the country, that one word straight answer smashed it out of the park.
Watch Tory MPs follow the Daily Mail route and denounce Tom Major as a traitor.
Telling an unambiguous truth is often an impactful thing to do in politics- for surprise value, if nothing else.
Trouble for all the other candidates is that they accepted office under Johnson, so they can't really say "Johnson isn't trustworthy, well DUH". The best they can go for is the Sunak approach of wanting to have believed BoJo but finally let down once too often. But even that is pretty weak. Anyone paying attention in the runup to 2019 knew what they were getting.
I was pleasantly surprised at Tom. Needs to cut down on the smiling a bit but otherwise came across as kind, sincere and honest.
Also, good glassmanship
I thought Kemi scored points by turning out in that nice yellow. wtf were the other women thinking, going all drab when you don't have to?
Truss should have turned up in a red evening dress to maximise the impression of unhinged, vampiric lunacy.
I thought Truss dressed like the kind of teacher you hated at school. Mordaunt dressed like the head teacher. I hated the fact that Sunak didn’t wear a tie. You know full well he has thousands of pounds worth in his walking in wardrobe but was told that he’d look cooler if he didn’t wear one.
covid has killed ties, only salesmen wear them these days
Time to kill them off for good. In today’s enlightened times, why shoul smart dress for people who identify as female be a floaty summer dress, and for mean a suit and tie? Business attire is changing, and for the better. What is the point of a tie?
Edit: posted after wearing said tie for 10 hours at graduation today...
I disagree. Ties are the one of the few ways that men can show creativity and personality in their business attire. When I was at school wearing your own tie in the Sixth Form felt like a massive privilege. I wore one that used to belong to Menzies Campbell. Now there was a leader who knew his ties.
So change business attire. Floral shirt. Yellow trousers. Ties are massively uncomfortable. And extremely sexist.
Or go the other way, wear nothing but a tie and show creativity and personality that way.
With the potential temps on Tuesday and more graduation. I have threatened just a pair of shorts under the robes. Would probably get me the sack though, at leas5 from the position of Marshal...
I was pleasantly surprised at Tom. Needs to cut down on the smiling a bit but otherwise came across as kind, sincere and honest.
Also, good glassmanship
I thought Kemi scored points by turning out in that nice yellow. wtf were the other women thinking, going all drab when you don't have to?
Truss should have turned up in a red evening dress to maximise the impression of unhinged, vampiric lunacy.
I thought Truss dressed like the kind of teacher you hated at school. Mordaunt dressed like the head teacher. I hated the fact that Sunak didn’t wear a tie. You know full well he has thousands of pounds worth in his walking in wardrobe but was told that he’d look cooler if he didn’t wear one.
covid has killed ties, only salesmen wear them these days
Time to kill them off for good. In today’s enlightened times, why shoul smart dress for people who identify as female be a floaty summer dress, and for mean a suit and tie? Business attire is changing, and for the better. What is the point of a tie?
Edit: posted after wearing said tie for 10 hours at graduation today...
For most men the tie could be the only thing of any colour that they wear in smart dress. It would be a retrograde to get rid of it, unless bright colours for suits were to become the norm.
So? Who needs colour? My colleague rocks a black three piece. They are uncomfortable and pointless.
You must either work in a funeral directors or a Masonic temple.
No, he’s a ‘cool’ academic (architecture). It’s his look.
Not making sense. If ties are uncomfortable you are doing it wrong and anyway the discomfort would manifest at the shirt rather than suit level
On suits I would totally invest in a bespoke one from an actual tailor. But doesn't that mean I need to remain at the weight / dimensions I am at now? Tricky, because I am still trying to remove the Covid belly I gained from 8 months on Sertraline.
I am now 2 and a bit weeks past the point where on the Monday night I decided I had to go see the doctor to go back on the happy pills, then Tuesday morning asked my many friends who are long-termers on happy pills which brands haven't killed them.
The list of "that made me fat / that made me psychotic / that made me floppy" persuaded me to sack that off and keep fighting. And with a bit of alcohol crutching I think I have pulled it off. So maybe I do need that tailored suit...
I thought Tugendhat was posh, stiff, formal and about 20 years out of date.
Maybe it's nostalgia.
I agree. I felt he is stupid. Just stupid. Why am I even bothering to sugar the pill? He's DIM
I know his type and he's like Ben Wallace. Fucking stupid if above average - IQ about 120 - but due to posh class status they over-estimate themselves by an order of magnitude. I often wonder if Cameron was the same
Yes but posh, patrician but not super bright PMs are often reasonably good eg Macmillan, Blair and Cameron, arguably Attlee and Churchill.
The most intelligent PM we have had in the last 40 years was probably the non posh Gordon Brown which says it all
Fundamentally disagree. Brown did not have a single profound original thought, nor did he adopt such notably
Neither even did Thatcher, she took her ideas from intellectuals and think tanks
Politicians have no business having original thoughts. They are salespeople and administrators, not intellectuals. Thatcher was successful because she understood this, as did Blair. Johnson was a talented salesperson but a poor administrator, and so failed.
I thought Tugendhat was posh, stiff, formal and about 20 years out of date.
Maybe it's nostalgia.
I agree. I felt he is stupid. Just stupid. Why am I even bothering to sugar the pill? He's DIM
I know his type and he's like Ben Wallace. Fucking stupid if above average - IQ about 120 - but due to posh class status they over-estimate themselves by an order of magnitude. I often wonder if Cameron was the same
Cameron/Clegg/Brown were miles ahead of this lot
No, they weren't. Cameron and Clegg are posh service industry versions of the soldiers, Brown is ASD and asocial
The only genuinely super-smart PMs of the modern era are the most successful - Churchill, Thatcher, Blair. The great tragedy of Boris is that he could have been one of those. But his flaws are too great
By super smart I mean combining genuinely hefty intellect with brilliant social antennae: knowing what the people want
We can see the same pattern in America, post war it is Clinton and Reagan and possibly Ike and Obama (but not quite)
Oliver Wendell Holmes described Franklin Delano Roosevelt as having "a second-class intellect but a first-class temperament".
Reckon that would also be correct for Churchill and many of the others you mention.
Eisenhower is interesting, few (including himself) thought him high in IQ but he was - most unlike Churchill - a great listener. Though think it was more a case of Ike being what the people wanted, than him being super-attuned. Indeed, he was slipping badly on THAT score by his 2nd term.
Reagan is also interesting, because he had a knack for coming across as somewhat dense (or worse) but at least he always knew his mind. And was way smarter than his critics led themselves to believe.
I was pleasantly surprised at Tom. Needs to cut down on the smiling a bit but otherwise came across as kind, sincere and honest.
Also, good glassmanship
I thought Kemi scored points by turning out in that nice yellow. wtf were the other women thinking, going all drab when you don't have to?
Truss should have turned up in a red evening dress to maximise the impression of unhinged, vampiric lunacy.
I thought Truss dressed like the kind of teacher you hated at school. Mordaunt dressed like the head teacher. I hated the fact that Sunak didn’t wear a tie. You know full well he has thousands of pounds worth in his walking in wardrobe but was told that he’d look cooler if he didn’t wear one.
covid has killed ties, only salesmen wear them these days
Time to kill them off for good. In today’s enlightened times, why shoul smart dress for people who identify as female be a floaty summer dress, and for mean a suit and tie? Business attire is changing, and for the better. What is the point of a tie?
Edit: posted after wearing said tie for 10 hours at graduation today...
I disagree. Ties are the one of the few ways that men can show creativity and personality in their business attire. When I was at school wearing your own tie in the Sixth Form felt like a massive privilege. I wore one that used to belong to Menzies Campbell. Now there was a leader who knew his ties.
So change business attire. Floral shirt. Yellow trousers. Ties are massively uncomfortable. And extremely sexist.
Or go the other way, wear nothing but a tie and show creativity and personality that way.
With the potential temps on Tuesday and more graduation. I have threatened just a pair of shorts under the robes. Would probably get me the sack though, at leas5 from the position of Marshal...
I speak for the nation and took part in this poll and called it for Tom, then Penny, then Rishi, then Badenoch in the distance, and Truss, oh dear.
Sunak in a different league imo despite the derivative Blairisms. Easily the best performer on both style and substance. It was like a lead singer with his backing band. If I had a vote that's where it would go and it wouldn't be a tough choice.
Mordaunt seems vacant. Tug is a bit stodgy. Badenoch is miles from PM material. Truss is just bad on every level. Poundshop Maggie is too kind.
But all 5 would be fabulous PMs compared to the last bloke. This was my main feeling watching the debate. Sheer joy and relief that Boris Johnson is history. It's been a few days now but the heart remains cockled that he's gone.
How on earth did the Tories ever think it was ok to foist that man on the country? This is the question they'll be hoping doesn't occur to the electorate come the time. I hope it will.
It does seem odd to me, as a non Tory, seeing the PB Tories alight on one no-hoper moron then another, while it is patently clear that Sunak is the only halfway decent candidate on offer.
On suits I would totally invest in a bespoke one from an actual tailor. But doesn't that mean I need to remain at the weight / dimensions I am at now? Tricky, because I am still trying to remove the Covid belly I gained from 8 months on Sertraline.
I am now 2 and a bit weeks past the point where on the Monday night I decided I had to go see the doctor to go back on the happy pills, then Tuesday morning asked my many friends who are long-termers on happy pills which brands haven't killed them.
The list of "that made me fat / that made me psychotic / that made me floppy" persuaded me to sack that off and keep fighting. And with a bit of alcohol crutching I think I have pulled it off. So maybe I do need that tailored suit...
Keep it up my friend. Anti-depressants are to be avoided if at all possible. I understand that isn't always possible. And that vulnerable people aren't always the best to decide.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
"Emotional intelligence" is ofcourse notoriously hard to measure, but I think Mordaunt if elected could perform better than anyone on that front since possibly Macmillan, or possibly any other Prime Minister. Blair was much too absorbed within himself to ever really be genuinely emotionally intelligent.
I agree that Brown is at the top purely in intellect of recent Prime Ministers, and of the last century I would place Churchill/Atlee and Macmillan/Wilson at the top.
I did almost buy a green suit once, but chickened out. Some steps are too far.
It would have been popular on St. Patrick’s Day.
But NOT in the Shankill! Unless perhaps you also donned an Orange sombrero?
However, in that case, if you're a White person, you'd be personifying the flag of the Republic!
I'm up in Scotland and someone who used to live in Ayrshire told me that they had to put bars over the traffic lights because the insane Protestants used to throw stones at the green lights. I laughed but they weren't joking.
I thought Tugendhat was posh, stiff, formal and about 20 years out of date.
Maybe it's nostalgia.
I agree. I felt he is stupid. Just stupid. Why am I even bothering to sugar the pill? He's DIM
I know his type and he's like Ben Wallace. Fucking stupid if above average - IQ about 120 - but due to posh class status they over-estimate themselves by an order of magnitude. I often wonder if Cameron was the same
Yes but posh, patrician but not super bright PMs are often reasonably good eg Macmillan, Blair and Cameron, arguably Attlee and Churchill.
The most intelligent PM we have had in the last 40 years was probably the non posh Gordon Brown which says it all
Fundamentally disagree. Brown did not have a single profound original thought, nor did he adopt such notably
Neither even did Thatcher, she took her ideas from intellectuals and think tanks
Bloody hell. I don't want to be rude (lying there) but you aspiring to take part in the political debate is like a goldfish dreaming of being a Premier league striker. Plato wasn't much of a thinker either, he got most of his ideas from Socrates and the rest from conversations at the Academy. How do you think the life of the mind operates?
I speak for the nation and took part in this poll and called it for Tom, then Penny, then Rishi, then Badenoch in the distance, and Truss, oh dear.
Sunak in a different league imo despite the derivative Blairisms. Easily the best performer on both style and substance. It was like a lead singer with his backing band. If I had a vote that's where it would go and it wouldn't be a tough choice.
Mordaunt seems vacant. Tug is a bit stodgy. Badenoch is miles from PM material. Truss is just bad on every level. Poundshop Maggie is too kind.
But all 5 would be fabulous PMs compared to the last bloke. This was my main feeling watching the debate. Sheer joy and relief that Boris Johnson is history. It's been a few days now but the heart remains cockled that he's gone.
How on earth did the Tories ever think it was ok to foist that man on the country? This is the question they'll be hoping doesn't occur to the electorate come the time. I hope it will.
It does seem odd to me, as a non Tory, seeing the PB Tories alight on one no-hoper moron then another, while it is patently clear that Sunak is the only halfway decent candidate on offer.
I speak for the nation and took part in this poll and called it for Tom, then Penny, then Rishi, then Badenoch in the distance, and Truss, oh dear.
Sunak in a different league imo despite the derivative Blairisms. Easily the best performer on both style and substance. It was like a lead singer with his backing band. If I had a vote that's where it would go and it wouldn't be a tough choice.
Mordaunt seems vacant. Tug is a bit stodgy. Badenoch is miles from PM material. Truss is just bad on every level. Poundshop Maggie is too kind.
But all 5 would be fabulous PMs compared to the last bloke. This was my main feeling watching the debate. Sheer joy and relief that Boris Johnson is history. It's been a few days now but the heart remains cockled that he's gone.
How on earth did the Tories ever think it was ok to foist that man on the country? This is the question they'll be hoping doesn't occur to the electorate come the time. I hope it will.
It does seem odd to me, as a non Tory, seeing the PB Tories alight on one no-hoper moron then another, while it is patently clear that Sunak is the only halfway decent candidate on offer.
With our Lab hats on - come on the Truss! 😅
Oh yeah sorry. Liz Truss, she's amazing. Got the next election sewn up. She is the one we fear!
To keep up with the terrible sporting analogies, that debate was a bit like the Red Bull F1 team having a bit of a panic at the juniors they had available and plumping for the sensible candidate Perez post Alex Albon.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
I thought Tugendhat was posh, stiff, formal and about 20 years out of date.
Maybe it's nostalgia.
I agree. I felt he is stupid. Just stupid. Why am I even bothering to sugar the pill? He's DIM
I know his type and he's like Ben Wallace. Fucking stupid if above average - IQ about 120 - but due to posh class status they over-estimate themselves by an order of magnitude. I often wonder if Cameron was the same
Yes but posh, patrician but not super bright PMs are often reasonably good eg Macmillan, Blair and Cameron, arguably Attlee and Churchill.
The most intelligent PM we have had in the last 40 years was probably the non posh Gordon Brown which says it all
Fundamentally disagree. Brown did not have a single profound original thought, nor did he adopt such notably
Neither even did Thatcher, she took her ideas from intellectuals and think tanks
Politicians have no business having original thoughts. They are salespeople and administrators, not intellectuals. Thatcher was successful because she understood this, as did Blair. Johnson was a talented salesperson but a poor administrator, and so failed.
More than just talented. In the Bernie Madoff league he was.
I did almost buy a green suit once, but chickened out. Some steps are too far.
It would have been popular on St. Patrick’s Day.
But NOT in the Shankill! Unless perhaps you also donned an Orange sombrero?
However, in that case, if you're a White person, you'd be personifying the flag of the Republic!
I'm up in Scotland and someone who used to live in Ayrshire told me that they had to put bars over the traffic lights because the insane Protestants used to throw stones at the green lights. I laughed but they weren't joking.
Larkie is the real deal for this but it wouldn’t surprise me if it happened in bits of Ayrshire as well. Big Trumpers in Larkhall as well.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
I don't like any of this people, but in terms of pure intellect I'd say it went
1. Thatcher 2. Blair
[Big Gap]
3. Cameron 4. Brown 5. Major
[Big Gap]
6. May
[Very Big Gap]
7. Johnson
Harold Wilson is our brightest PM by a mile. If the recent bunch Blair snd Thatcher could master detail, interpret nuance and communicate succinctly. That’s true intelligence. The others could only manage part of that.
One thing for certain is Johnson is definitely not an towering intellectual. He is one of those classic seemingly bright kids who are good with words, which makes them appear far brighter than their peers. He definitely has "talent" for writing entertaining waffle, but it seems pretty clear that by the time he got to Oxford that was the peak of his level.
The problem is I think he believes he is far more intelligent than he really is, still harking back to those days as a school kid where he knocked together an essay in half an hour before class and still getting a good grade.
Could The Hat somehow win this thing? I know @HYUFD is a backer.
Is The Hat value??
Honestly? He would be a safe pair of hands. Compared to the Boris generation he would be a complete step forward. OK so he is posh, stilted and reserved. But compared to what we have now...?
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I speak for the nation and took part in this poll and called it for Tom, then Penny, then Rishi, then Badenoch in the distance, and Truss, oh dear.
Sunak in a different league imo despite the derivative Blairisms. Easily the best performer on both style and substance. It was like a lead singer with his backing band. If I had a vote that's where it would go and it wouldn't be a tough choice.
Mordaunt seems vacant. Tug is a bit stodgy. Badenoch is miles from PM material. Truss is just bad on every level. Poundshop Maggie is too kind.
But all 5 would be fabulous PMs compared to the last bloke. This was my main feeling watching the debate. Sheer joy and relief that Boris Johnson is history. It's been a few days now but the heart remains cockled that he's gone.
How on earth did the Tories ever think it was ok to foist that man on the country? This is the question they'll be hoping doesn't occur to the electorate come the time. I hope it will.
It does seem odd to me, as a non Tory, seeing the PB Tories alight on one no-hoper moron then another, while it is patently clear that Sunak is the only halfway decent candidate on offer.
As a Conservative member I agree. My head says Sunak, my heart Kemi and my betting book Penny.
One thing for certain is Johnson is definitely not an towering intellectual. He is one of those classic seemingly bright kids who are good with words, which makes them appear far brighter than their peers. He definitely has "talent" for writing entertaining waffle, but it seems pretty clear that by the time he got to Oxford that was the peak of his level.
The problem is I think he believes he is far more intelligent than he really is, still harking back to those days as a school kid where he knocked together an essay in half an hour before class and still getting a good grade.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
I don't like any of this people, but in terms of pure intellect I'd say it went
1. Thatcher 2. Blair
[Big Gap]
3. Cameron 4. Brown 5. Major
[Big Gap]
6. May
[Very Big Gap]
7. Johnson
Harold Wilson is our brightest PM by a mile. If the recent bunch Blair snd Thatcher could master detail, interpret nuance and communicate succinctly. That’s true intelligence. The others could only manage part of that.
Wilson was indeed extremely intellectually clever. Like Macmillan, he could also understand and attend to people's emotions a bit, too.
I speak for the nation and took part in this poll and called it for Tom, then Penny, then Rishi, then Badenoch in the distance, and Truss, oh dear.
Sunak in a different league imo despite the derivative Blairisms. Easily the best performer on both style and substance. It was like a lead singer with his backing band. If I had a vote that's where it would go and it wouldn't be a tough choice.
Mordaunt seems vacant. Tug is a bit stodgy. Badenoch is miles from PM material. Truss is just bad on every level. Poundshop Maggie is too kind.
But all 5 would be fabulous PMs compared to the last bloke. This was my main feeling watching the debate. Sheer joy and relief that Boris Johnson is history. It's been a few days now but the heart remains cockled that he's gone.
How on earth did the Tories ever think it was ok to foist that man on the country? This is the question they'll be hoping doesn't occur to the electorate come the time. I hope it will.
It was the electorate themselves who gave 'that man' a majority of 80 to deliver Brexit and beat Corbyn
Yes, I know. But they could only pick him because he'd been put on the table like a big fluffy trifle. Far better to have kept it in the fridge.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I've found Brown's PhD dissertation online. Skimming through it, it reads like 500 pages of HYUFD.
Gordon Brown’s idea of a bedtime read was to snuggle up with “Varieties of Capitalism” by Hall, Soskice (OUP, 2001).
I’m pretty sure Thatcher too actually “read and understood” (a la Jackie Weaver), Hayek, Friedman et al. Not to mention Isaiah Berlin. She probably liked the idea of Oakeshott, but couldn’t be bothered reading all the way through.
I suspect Blair was more of a New Statesman Op Ed and bios of Bill Gates type character.
Cameron was very middle-brow in his cultural consumption, as far as I can tell.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I've found Brown's PhD dissertation online. Skimming through it, it reads like 500 pages of HYUFD.
Could The Hat somehow win this thing? I know @HYUFD is a backer.
Is The Hat value??
Honestly? He would be a safe pair of hands. Compared to the Boris generation he would be a complete step forward. OK so he is posh, stilted and reserved. But compared to what we have now...?
John Major 2022.
He would have to learn not say "I have served" and "to those who served" so often though.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
I don't like any of this people, but in terms of pure intellect I'd say it went
1. Thatcher 2. Blair
[Big Gap]
3. Cameron 4. Brown 5. Major
[Big Gap]
6. May
[Very Big Gap]
7. Johnson
I would have:
1. Blair 2. Thatcher 3. Johnson 4. Major 5. Cameron = Brown 7. May
Blair and Thatcher both supremely gifted politicians and brilliant at absorbing and synthesising information. But Thatcher was lacking in self awareness and was too dogmatic, suggesting a lack of intellectual flexibility, a basic inability to see the other point of view. Johnson is extremely intelligent but his fundamental weakness is that he is a terrible human being. Major I think is a lot smarter than people think, he is marked down by the educational snobs of the commentariat because he didn't go to university. Cameron and Brown both smart but a bit basic in their own ways. May intellectually inflexible, really basic.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
Brian May completed his PhD after a 40 year gap.
Yeah, but in the meantime he was you know a bit busy becoming a member of a world famous band. Gordon Brown taught at Glasgow College of Technology.
Nobody is suggesting Brown was a thickie (like Boris), but a part time PhD in the history of the Labour Party isn't exactly a PhD in Astro-physics.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I've found Brown's PhD dissertation online. Skimming through it, it reads like 500 pages of HYUFD.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
I don't like any of this people, but in terms of pure intellect I'd say it went
1. Thatcher 2. Blair
[Big Gap]
3. Cameron 4. Brown 5. Major
[Big Gap]
6. May
[Very Big Gap]
7. Johnson
Harold Wilson is our brightest PM by a mile. If the recent bunch Blair snd Thatcher could master detail, interpret nuance and communicate succinctly. That’s true intelligence. The others could only manage part of that.
I agree with that. At the top, it goes (Imo): Wilson, then Thatcher, then Blair.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I've found Brown's PhD dissertation online. Skimming through it, it reads like 500 pages of HYUFD.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I've found Brown's PhD dissertation online. Skimming through it, it reads like 500 pages of HYUFD.
She can't even make the bow stand up straight in the way the Blessed Margaret could.
Next.
Not a good day for The Truss.
I actually thought Tugendhat came over not badly at all - in some sense fundamentally trustworthy in his motivations, and trying as hard as he knows to do his best by people as he understands it.
I did almost buy a green suit once, but chickened out. Some steps are too far.
It would have been popular on St. Patrick’s Day.
But NOT in the Shankill! Unless perhaps you also donned an Orange sombrero?
However, in that case, if you're a White person, you'd be personifying the flag of the Republic!
I'm up in Scotland and someone who used to live in Ayrshire told me that they had to put bars over the traffic lights because the insane Protestants used to throw stones at the green lights. I laughed but they weren't joking.
Larkie is the real deal for this but it wouldn’t surprise me if it happened in bits of Ayrshire as well. Big Trumpers in Larkhall as well.
Sorry might have been Larkhall, my knowledge of weegie geography is poor. They said SW Scotland and I assumed Ayrshire.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I've found Brown's PhD dissertation online. Skimming through it, it reads like 500 pages of HYUFD.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
I don't like any of this people, but in terms of pure intellect I'd say it went
1. Thatcher 2. Blair
[Big Gap]
3. Cameron 4. Brown 5. Major
[Big Gap]
6. May
[Very Big Gap]
7. Johnson
Harold Wilson is our brightest PM by a mile. If the recent bunch Blair snd Thatcher could master detail, interpret nuance and communicate succinctly. That’s true intelligence. The others could only manage part of that.
I agree with that. At the top, it goes (Imo): Wilson, then Thatcher, then Blair.
In modern era.
Otherwise you need Gladstone in the list. And Disraeli.
I’m surprised at the latent Wilson appreciation on here. Historians seem to rate him as something of an administrative let-down, too focused on politicking for his own good.
I accept he was the smartest PM since the war, though.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
Brian May completed his PhD after a 40 year gap.
Yeah, but in the meantime he was you know a bit busy becoming a member of a world famous band. Gordon Brown taught at Glasgow College of Technology.
Nobody is suggesting Brown was a thickie (like Boris), but a part time PhD in the history of the Labour Party isn't exactly a PhD in Astro-physics.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
Brian May completed his PhD after a 40 year gap.
Yeah, but in the meantime he was you know a bit busy becoming a member of a world famous band. Gordon Brown taught at Glasgow College of Technology.
Nobody is suggesting Brown was a thickie (like Boris), but a part time PhD in the history of the Labour Party isn't exactly a PhD in Astro-physics.
Gordon Brown’s idea of a bedtime read was to snuggle up with “Varieties of Capitalism” by Hall, Soskice (OUP, 2001).
I’m pretty sure Thatcher too actually “read and understood” (a la Jackie Weaver), Hayek, Friedman et al. Not to mention Isaiah Berlin. She probably liked the idea of Oakeshott, but couldn’t be bothered reading all the way through.
I suspect Blair was more of a New Statesman Op Ed and bios of Bill Gates type character.
Cameron was very middle-brow in his cultural consumption, as far as I can tell.
I don’t think Boris is “extremely intelligent”. He is naturally gifted, but lazy, and I think his curiosity about the world ended approx age 18.
He only scraped a second in Classics.
I doubt he is especially numerate, either
I have a theory about Boris. I know there are issues about his home life etc but he got a scholarship to Eton. I just wonder whether like a lot of high achievers at a young age he suffered as a result. Ended up settling for being a superficial rake.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
Brian May completed his PhD after a 40 year gap.
Yeah, but in the meantime he was you know a bit busy becoming a member of a world famous band. Gordon Brown taught at Glasgow College of Technology.
Nobody is suggesting Brown was a thickie (like Boris), but a part time PhD in the history of the Labour Party isn't exactly a PhD in Astro-physics.
A PhD is a PhD. At least from Russell group unis.
The time taken is irrelevant.
IIRC GB was also busy being head of the student union - so effectively taking a year or two off his PhD.
I don’t think Boris is “extremely intelligent”. He is naturally gifted, but lazy, and I think his curiosity about the world ended approx age 18.
He only scraped a second in Classics.
I doubt he is especially numerate, either
I have a theory about Boris. I know there are issues about his home life etc but he got a scholarship to Eton. I just wonder whether like a lot of high achievers at a young age he suffered as a result. Ended up settling for being a superficial rake.
Or simply he developed quicker as a child and then hit his level.
It isn't rare to see it at every level of education where people breeze a certain level, but then the next step up is just that one step too far and go from first to middle of the pack.
I notice Rishi wasn't wearing a tie whereas Tom was.
And since many on here felt Sunak was the better performer, that must mean the public knocked him a few points for informality. Ties making a comeback, baby.
Gordon Brown’s idea of a bedtime read was to snuggle up with “Varieties of Capitalism” by Hall, Soskice (OUP, 2001).
I’m pretty sure Thatcher too actually “read and understood” (a la Jackie Weaver), Hayek, Friedman et al. Not to mention Isaiah Berlin. She probably liked the idea of Oakeshott, but couldn’t be bothered reading all the way through.
I suspect Blair was more of a New Statesman Op Ed and bios of Bill Gates type character.
Cameron was very middle-brow in his cultural consumption, as far as I can tell.
I was pleasantly surprised at Tom. Needs to cut down on the smiling a bit but otherwise came across as kind, sincere and honest.
Also, good glassmanship
I thought Kemi scored points by turning out in that nice yellow. wtf were the other women thinking, going all drab when you don't have to?
Truss should have turned up in a red evening dress to maximise the impression of unhinged, vampiric lunacy.
I thought Truss dressed like the kind of teacher you hated at school. Mordaunt dressed like the head teacher. I hated the fact that Sunak didn’t wear a tie. You know full well he has thousands of pounds worth in his walking in wardrobe but was told that he’d look cooler if he didn’t wear one.
covid has killed ties, only salesmen wear them these days
Time to kill them off for good. In today’s enlightened times, why shoul smart dress for people who identify as female be a floaty summer dress, and for mean a suit and tie? Business attire is changing, and for the better. What is the point of a tie?
Edit: posted after wearing said tie for 10 hours at graduation today...
I like wearing a suit and tie, I feel more productive as I mentally switch into work mode. But the tie at least will not remain a ubiquitous part of business attire, I am sure.
My work attire has not really changed in the last 300 years so I am not chucking my ties just yet.
Does anyone think Truss could be next out after that?
No. The hardcore ERG types have nowhere else to go.
Kemi. She'll pick up a lot of those braverman votes and probably quite a few of the TT votes as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the final three becomes Kemi, Rishi and Penny and a final two of Rishi vs one of the other two.
There was something very flirty about Kemi saying to TT "he'll think differently when he's a minister." My dream is they have now hooked up at the afterparty and will announce a joint bid in the morning
I looked at the horse in High Plains Drifter. A fancy quarter horse. They are bred for speed over short distance (quarter mile racing, hence the name), roping, and barrel racing. High back end for power and turning. No good for jumping or dressage where you want the withers (shoulders) higher than the butt. But quarter horses are the biggest breed in the US and the best ones go for mega bucks.
Here is our fancy baby, a colt born this spring.
*Very* nice
It was the level of schooling rather than conformation that impressed me about the HPD horse
News of the day is my hunter mare has been scanned in foal to an ID stallion, huzzah!
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I've found Brown's PhD dissertation online. Skimming through it, it reads like 500 pages of HYUFD.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
Brian May completed his PhD after a 40 year gap.
Yeah, but in the meantime he was you know a bit busy becoming a member of a world famous band. Gordon Brown taught at Glasgow College of Technology.
Nobody is suggesting Brown was a thickie (like Boris), but a part time PhD in the history of the Labour Party isn't exactly a PhD in Astro-physics.
A PhD is a PhD. At least from Russell group unis.
The time taken is irrelevant.
IIRC GB was also busy being head of the student union - so effectively taking a year or two off his PhD.
Yours truly owns a copy of Gordon Brown's biography of James Maxton. A solid if unexciting tome.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I've found Brown's PhD dissertation online. Skimming through it, it reads like 500 pages of HYUFD.
I thought Tugendhat was posh, stiff, formal and about 20 years out of date.
Maybe it's nostalgia.
I agree. I felt he is stupid. Just stupid. Why am I even bothering to sugar the pill? He's DIM
I know his type and he's like Ben Wallace. Fucking stupid if above average - IQ about 120 - but due to posh class status they over-estimate themselves by an order of magnitude. I often wonder if Cameron was the same
Yes but posh, patrician but not super bright PMs are often reasonably good eg Macmillan, Blair and Cameron, arguably Attlee and Churchill.
The most intelligent PM we have had in the last 40 years was probably the non posh Gordon Brown which says it all
Fundamentally disagree. Brown did not have a single profound original thought, nor did he adopt such notably
Neither even did Thatcher, she took her ideas from intellectuals and think tanks
Bloody hell. I don't want to be rude (lying there) but you aspiring to take part in the political debate is like a goldfish dreaming of being a Premier league striker. Plato wasn't much of a thinker either, he got most of his ideas from Socrates and the rest from conversations at the Academy. How do you think the life of the mind operates?
I refer you to Mr Fish in the Periodical known as Viz.
I speak for the nation and took part in this poll and called it for Tom, then Penny, then Rishi, then Badenoch in the distance, and Truss, oh dear.
Sunak in a different league imo despite the derivative Blairisms. Easily the best performer on both style and substance. It was like a lead singer with his backing band. If I had a vote that's where it would go and it wouldn't be a tough choice.
Mordaunt seems vacant. Tug is a bit stodgy. Badenoch is miles from PM material. Truss is just bad on every level. Poundshop Maggie is too kind.
But all 5 would be fabulous PMs compared to the last bloke. This was my main feeling watching the debate. Sheer joy and relief that Boris Johnson is history. It's been a few days now but the heart remains cockled that he's gone.
How on earth did the Tories ever think it was ok to foist that man on the country? This is the question they'll be hoping doesn't occur to the electorate come the time. I hope it will.
It was the electorate themselves who gave 'that man' a majority of 80 to deliver Brexit and beat Corbyn
Brexiteers would have voted for a blancmange to get brexit done. Everyone would vote for a blancmange to stop Corbyn.
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I've found Brown's PhD dissertation online. Skimming through it, it reads like 500 pages of HYUFD.
I was pleasantly surprised at Tom. Needs to cut down on the smiling a bit but otherwise came across as kind, sincere and honest.
Also, good glassmanship
I thought Kemi scored points by turning out in that nice yellow. wtf were the other women thinking, going all drab when you don't have to?
Truss should have turned up in a red evening dress to maximise the impression of unhinged, vampiric lunacy.
I thought Truss dressed like the kind of teacher you hated at school. Mordaunt dressed like the head teacher. I hated the fact that Sunak didn’t wear a tie. You know full well he has thousands of pounds worth in his walking in wardrobe but was told that he’d look cooler if he didn’t wear one.
covid has killed ties, only salesmen wear them these days
Time to kill them off for good. In today’s enlightened times, why shoul smart dress for people who identify as female be a floaty summer dress, and for mean a suit and tie? Business attire is changing, and for the better. What is the point of a tie?
Edit: posted after wearing said tie for 10 hours at graduation today...
I like wearing a suit and tie, I feel more productive as I mentally switch into work mode. But the tie at least will not remain a ubiquitous part of business attire, I am sure.
My work attire has not really changed in the last 300 years so I am not chucking my ties just yet.
I hope you still have your mourning bands and weepers, last worn for the death of the late King Olav V in 1991!
Brown was/is an intellectual. However he lost (maybe never had) the knack for retail politics and was plagued with self-doubt.
If Mordaunt, for example, became PM, she would certainly be the thickest PM in living memory.
They have all tended to be above average IQ, if not necessarily “intellectual”.
Mordaunt is clearly both brighter and more intellectually and emotionally flexible than May, I would say.
Emotionally flexible, sure, but not smarter, I’d say.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown 2. Thatcher 3. Blair 4. Boris 5. Cameron / May / Major
Where is the evidence for Brown's great intellect?
He got a PhD, which requires some intellect… although sometimes I think it as much requires stubbornness!
He took forever to complete it (in fact he would now be kicked out of most PhD programmes these days for taking too long. Nobody will give you 10 years to complete at a good institution now) and it was the history of the Labour Party for a select few years...not at all impressive really.
He was doing it part-time. I have a good colleague who took that long. I had a student who took that long, and turned the work into a very successful business afterwards. If you don’t have some intellectual ability, no amount of time will be enough for a PhD. It still usually demonstrates some ability.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
I've found Brown's PhD dissertation online. Skimming through it, it reads like 500 pages of HYUFD.
One thing for certain is Johnson is definitely not an towering intellectual. He is one of those classic seemingly bright kids who are good with words, which makes them appear far brighter than their peers. He definitely has "talent" for writing entertaining waffle, but it seems pretty clear that by the time he got to Oxford that was the peak of his level.
The problem is I think he believes he is far more intelligent than he really is, still harking back to those days as a school kid where he knocked together an essay in half an hour before class and still getting a good grade.
Cameron was once known as the “essay-crisis prime minister”, different though he was from Boris in many ways:
Comments
It was the level of schooling rather than conformation that impressed me about the HPD horse
News of the day is my hunter mare has been scanned in foal to an ID stallion, huzzah!
The good leaders know their failings and bring capable people in around them to compensate - whether Thatcher relying on Joseph for ideas or Whitelaw for antenna and diplomacy - or Reagan willing to defer to his very capable team including titans like Kissinger.
The clown was all too aware of his own failings and petrified of bringing intelligent capable politicians into his team for fear they would expose his flaws and emerge as potential rivals.
So now we see the consequence of his inadequacy.
Trouble for all the other candidates is that they accepted office under Johnson, so they can't really say "Johnson isn't trustworthy, well DUH". The best they can go for is the Sunak approach of wanting to have believed BoJo but finally let down once too often. But even that is pretty weak. Anyone paying attention in the runup to 2019 knew what they were getting.
I am now 2 and a bit weeks past the point where on the Monday night I decided I had to go see the doctor to go back on the happy pills, then Tuesday morning asked my many friends who are long-termers on happy pills which brands haven't killed them.
The list of "that made me fat / that made me psychotic / that made me floppy" persuaded me to sack that off and keep fighting. And with a bit of alcohol crutching I think I have pulled it off. So maybe I do need that tailored suit...
Reckon that would also be correct for Churchill and many of the others you mention.
Eisenhower is interesting, few (including himself) thought him high in IQ but he was - most unlike Churchill - a great listener. Though think it was more a case of Ike being what the people wanted, than him being super-attuned. Indeed, he was slipping badly on THAT score by his 2nd term.
Reagan is also interesting, because he had a knack for coming across as somewhat dense (or worse) but at least he always knew his mind. And was way smarter than his critics led themselves to believe.
I suspect in terms of pure intellect, it goes.
1. Brown
2. Thatcher
3. Blair
4. Boris
5. Cameron / May / Major
And a smile.
However, in that case, if you're a White person, you'd be personifying the flag of the Republic!
Anti-depressants are to be avoided if at all possible.
I understand that isn't always possible. And that vulnerable people aren't always the best to decide.
I agree that Brown is at the top purely in intellect of recent Prime Ministers, and of the last century I would place Churchill/Atlee and Macmillan/Wilson at the top.
As a Magdalen man once said, there is only one thing worse than having gone to Oxford...
1. Thatcher
2. Blair
[Big Gap]
3. Cameron
4. Brown
5. Major
[Big Gap]
6. May
[Very Big Gap]
7. Johnson
Is The Hat value??
Lay Truss
Back the hat
tonight.
Tomorrow will be another day.
OR is the LEFT photo the waxworks?
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/prime-minister-margaret-thatcher-london-madame-tussauds-wax-museum-marie-tussaud-was-born-as-marie-grosholtz-uk-71076953.jpg
i think i am right in saying that Brown is the only one with a PhD?
The problem is I think he believes he is far more intelligent than he really is, still harking back to those days as a school kid where he knocked together an essay in half an hour before class and still getting a good grade.
John Major 2022.
PhDs are generally on very specific topics. That’s academia.
I’ve not read Brown’s PhD. I don’t know what it was like. PhDs are funny things and I’ve seen some crappy ones get passed, so I’m not saying this is slam dunk evidence.
And at the age of 17 under some mad scottish scheme to hot house kids into uni at a younger age.
It's curtains. But not at No 10 for her.
https://era.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/7136
I’m pretty sure Thatcher too actually “read and understood” (a la Jackie Weaver), Hayek, Friedman et al. Not to mention Isaiah Berlin. She probably liked the idea of Oakeshott, but couldn’t be bothered reading all the way through.
I suspect Blair was more of a New Statesman Op Ed and bios of Bill Gates type character.
Cameron was very middle-brow in his cultural consumption, as far as I can tell.
1. Blair
2. Thatcher
3. Johnson
4. Major
5. Cameron = Brown
7. May
Blair and Thatcher both supremely gifted politicians and brilliant at absorbing and synthesising information. But Thatcher was lacking in self awareness and was too dogmatic, suggesting a lack of intellectual flexibility, a basic inability to see the other point of view.
Johnson is extremely intelligent but his fundamental weakness is that he is a terrible human being.
Major I think is a lot smarter than people think, he is marked down by the educational snobs of the commentariat because he didn't go to university.
Cameron and Brown both smart but a bit basic in their own ways.
May intellectually inflexible, really basic.
Nobody is suggesting Brown was a thickie (like Boris), but a part time PhD in the history of the Labour Party isn't exactly a PhD in Astro-physics.
Next.
He is naturally gifted, but lazy, and I think his curiosity about the world ended approx age 18.
He only scraped a second in Classics.
I doubt he is especially numerate, either
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19216932/tory-leadership-contestants-telly-clash-honesty-politics/
I actually thought Tugendhat came over not badly at all - in some sense fundamentally trustworthy in his motivations, and trying as hard as he knows to do his best by people as he understands it.
Otherwise you need Gladstone in the list. And Disraeli.
I accept he was the smartest PM since the war, though.
The time taken is irrelevant.
Being incurious about finance did help him out a bit though when Livingstone seemingly presumed Boris fiddled his taxes.
It isn't rare to see it at every level of education where people breeze a certain level, but then the next step up is just that one step too far and go from first to middle of the pack.
Gladstone just visited them.
Lucky people have a partner who makes it four, although he/she may be lying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0qi571LBOM
Almost bordering on unhinged . Is this really the person you want with the nuclear codes .
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/david-cameron-s-conference-speech-shows-the-essay-crisis-prime-minister-has-finally-planned-ahead