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For those with short memories… – politicalbetting.com

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,043
    nico679 said:

    I think it’s pretty clear now that the rebels have the numbers to get rid of the clown . Given only 32 MPs needed to vote the other way last time .

    The problem is that kicking the can down the road to the autumn allows more time for him to recover and get his lapdog Zahawi to put operation save Johnson into full throttle .

    There’s also the Starmer situation re Durham police . Very hard to read how that plays out if he does get a FPN .

    Will the media attention on that give the clown more breathing space or will his resignation if he does get fined make life even more uncomfortable .

    I think the rebels need to act in the next two weeks and need to change the 1922 rules and move to another vote before recess.

    The 1922 are to make an announcement later today according to the BBC
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    With great sadness and regret, I have this morning tendered my resignation to the Prime Minister after I accepted and repeated assurances on Monday to the media which have now been found to be inaccurate.

    I wish my successor well - it is the best job in government. https://twitter.com/willquince/status/1544583312353673217/photo/1
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Heathener said:

    Whilst seeking that Dumbledore quote I also came across this one:

    “It is a curious thing, Harry, but perhaps those who are best suited to power are those who have never sought it. Those who, like you, have leadership thrust upon them, and take up the mantle because they must, and find to their own surprise that they wear it well.”

    Someone who always wanted to be king of the world should have been let nowhere near it.

    The problem is that quote is bullsh*t. An average person wields power very poorly over situations they are not adequately prepared for. For every thousand Average Joes going into battle, only one will end up being a go-forwards hero. At best, most will be mediocre.

    Most will ignore the mantle and let some other bu**er pick it up.

    And to be prepared, you need to show some desire for whatever that power is. If we were to take 650 people off the streets and make them MPs for four years, how many would sink? How many would swim? ow many would make good decisions? I'd argue *fewer* than we get from people choosing to stand for election - because they have a desire for that position, that power, and most will be at least partially prepared for it.

    In addition, most people put in a position of power that they do not want will say they cannot be @rsed and do the job poorly.

    And the same goes for management, politics and everything else.
    It's a lie we tell ourselves so we can think we'd do a better job whilst having an excuse as to why we dont try.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,652
    edited July 2022
    Leon said:

    The Flintstones as

    It’s weird how DALL-E hasn’t *quite* mastered eyes and noses - yet. I suspect this is a lagging glitch from its former constraint - don’t use faces

    Not another day of this drivel please.

    Is there really nothing better to do in Montenegro than spam a political website with this stuff?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,526

    Scott_xP said:

    We expect 1922 committee to confirm the process for electing its new executive today.

    Working proposition is they hold elections next Weds, with rebels on 1922 hoping for an immediate change in the rules and a second vote of confidence before summer recess.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1544565008956379136

    That's ambitious.
    I've taken my profit on the "Johnson not to be leader at Conservative conference" market. I think he'll be OK till the recess now, and then there's two weeks in September and then the conference.

    I know we are all very snooty about plotters, but actually what the Tory rebels need is a coherent plot. Everyone seems to be acting individually. Sunak doesn't know Javid is quitting, nor the reverse. There is no single slate of 1922 challengers. Nobody has a clue who the favourite to succeed Johnson is. If I were a dissident Tory backbencher, I'd be attracted to someone who seemed to have an actual plan. But nobody does.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Breaking - Lord Quince resigns
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone know how accurate this is ?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/raymondopolis/status/1544440058672951296
    Turkey found 694Mt of rare earths—that's 6x the size of all other global reserves and _15x_ the reserves of China, which currently dominates the market. Enough for >1,000 years at current demand. What happens now??

    I'd treat it with a healthy dose of scepticism. It appears to be a press release from a government agency, and Turley is in need of good financial news atm. And then there's the fact that most 'rare earths' are not actually rare: the problem is in the difficulty in extraction.

    I have no doubt that they have discovered massive deposits of rare earths. There's a long, long way from that to extracting them in meaningful quantities, and even further to profit.
    Yes, I'm aware of that, but the implication of the release is that the reserves are economic. That point was what I was curious about.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: the resignations have started again.

    Laura Trott, a rising star of the 2019 Tory intake, has quit has PPS to the Department for Transport:

    "Trust in politics is - and must always be - of the upmost importance, but sadly in recent months this has been lost. "

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1544579661971296261

    It hangs on whether Coffey or some other relatively senior ministers come to the right decision today.
    I thought she was staying?
    Boris himself has form in agreeing to stay then quitting later. Others should follow that example.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,134

    I have no doubt that they have discovered massive deposits of rare earths. There's a long, long way from that to extracting them in meaningful quantities, and even further to profit.

    Mmm, unless they can actually bring them to market at a similar overall price to China then China is going to continue to be the dominant source, because capitalism.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    This interview is surreal. Being asked to comment on two separate resignations that have occurred during its 10 minute duration!
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    Leon said:

    DALL-E 2 MORNING UPDATE

    DALL-E is now getting scarily, scarily good at faces. Despite the fact that faces have only been “permitted” for a week or two



    That person does not exist. Yet the only tiny clue is some blurring at the hairline/temple

    Conclusions: the potential for porn deep fakes is troubling. You’re still not allowed to use “real” faces - but inevitably that prohibition will fail. You’ll be able to depict anyone doing anything with 100% accuracy

    Also: photography as “art” is finished. Dead. DALL-E does this for free in seconds, 24/7

    Also: what happens when DALL-E is allowed to do moving images? Films? TV? With AI voice generation that will open up amazing possibilities for movies made with entirely fake “people” - who don’t need to be paid

    It is going to be fascinating watching this technology evolve, and its implications. Like you say, will it make actors redundant?

    Those Yorkshire puds look delicious too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288

    Mr. Leon, there are already, separately, computer voice 'actors' being developed. Voice actors have been hired, not told the detail, and been pissed to find their recorded voices were used to help develop the tech that may well put them out of work.

    At the moment, the voices are passable but not as good as human voice actors.

    This is a pretty good fake AI Morgan Freeman


    https://youtu.be/oxXpB9pSETo
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,652
    IanB2 said:

    Breaking - Lord Quince resigns

    Marmalade for the toast?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    pigeon said:

    Mr. Dickson, and that terrible decision is with him as Defence Secretary. You think a Nadine Dorries or similar would be better for Defence?

    I think the Conservatives need a period in opposition. About a century will do.

    PR Mr Starmer. PR.
    That's why the best outcome to the next election is one that leaves Labour as weak as possible, without the bloody Tories actually winning it again.

    If Labour is miles short of a majority, doubts its ability ever to win one again, has a large and potentially resurgent Conservative Opposition breathing down its neck, and ends up reliant on both the SNP and the Liberal Democrats, then they might be persuaded to yield.

    The likelihood of Labour abandoning FPTP if it wins outright is nil.
    Labour's problem is that so far they have only one policy which is to maintain the draconian Brexit but fix the Norhern Ireland protocol.

    As perhaps only twenty people in the country understand the Northern Ireland protocol and even less care it's not going to have them queuing round the blocks at polling stations.

    Meanwhile the door is open to anyone who wants to attract the now 60% in these islands who want the whole madcap scheme to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

    In short. Is Starmer's Labour party fit for purpose? I don't think so. Does Starmer understand this politics business? I don't think so. The first rule of politics is to find policies that voters want and the first rule of selling those policies is remember the first rule of copywriting. People don't want a drill they want a hole.
    The person who will be most delighted if the chaos of the Brexit wars resumes is Boris.
    Labour cannot appease Brexiteers. They must be confronted and defeated.

    Starmer surrendered yesterday: he is not fit for purpose. Labourites better pray that Durham police do their work for them.
    Labour needs the next election to be about the economy and catastrophic public services, not an ideological battle for Brexit returning red wall voters to the Tories.

    I expect there will be a time one day to reset our relationship with the EU. Some things have to come first.

    If Labour does get back into power, the current government has made it much easier to create a much closer relationship with the EU very quietly. When you give up on Parliamentary democracy, as the Tories have done, don't be surprised if the executive tools you have created to bypass scrutiny are used in ways that you do not like.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    TOPPING said:

    pigeon said:

    When it comes to it, MPs of whatever party, no matter how high-minded they can be when it’s their opponents in trouble, will overlook pretty much anything if they can justify it in pursuit of a higher cause (usually their job) and the polls have not turned against them. And, in truth, it’s only the last issue which really matters to them. Pincher’s groping hands, Boris’s parties and his repeated lies would be mere footnotes if the Tories were still consistently ahead in the polls.

    And Johnson would already be gone if the Tories were 20% adrift of Labour rather than averaging more like 6-7%. Small wonder if Mr & Mrs Average end up regarding politics and its practitioners as entirely devoid of ethics and principle. The evidence against them is overwhelming.

    Meanwhile, in other news, most of the British population is now living hand-to-mouth, or something very close to it:

    Most Lloyds Bank customers have less than £500 of savings in their accounts, its chief executive said.

    The head of the UK's biggest high street bank told the BBC: "80% of individuals and UK customers and families have less than £500 pounds worth of savings in their current account and their savings account."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62057301

    Frankly, the more I think about this, the more astonishing it becomes. The customer base of Lloyds must be broadly representative of the general population. I might've guessed that about a third of us had nothing or next to nothing in the bank, but four-fifths?!?! Anybody in this position who finds themselves out of a job, or with unexpected bills to settle, is immediately going to have to resort to debt - if they've not already maxed out their capacity to do so. Those of working age who end up unemployed, or having to take a new job with a substantial cut in income, will be staring almost immediately down the barrel of heat or eat dilemmas or being slung out onto the street.

    Essentially, a finding like this implies that most of the country - especially all those still paying rent or a mortgage - is now part of the precariat. Any significant spike in unemployment and a lot of these people will be sunk.

    driving around the M60 not so long ago I was struck by the sheer number of costly cars.... BMWs, VWs other top spec brands.... not sure how it sits with the above.
    So many "costly" cars are on cheap PCP deals issued when manufacturers could actually build cars and needed to hit a sales target.
    It has been a not yet enacted project of mine to go around taking photos of thoroughly normal perhaps council two-up two-downs with brand spanking new Range Rover Velars parked in front of them.
    I noted that tendency in some rougher areas where I live. A south African girl I knew said youd see a similar thing in townships.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    edited July 2022
    Roger said:

    Nick Robinson just gets better. His 8.05 slot isn't to be missed

    Zahawi is being skewered and it is well deserved.

    What a creep.......

    Was it just days ago that PBers were bigging up Zahawi as a model of good judgment and probity, relatively untainted by the BJ slurry spreader?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    When it comes to it, MPs of whatever party, no matter how high-minded they can be when it’s their opponents in trouble, will overlook pretty much anything if they can justify it in pursuit of a higher cause (usually their job) and the polls have not turned against them. And, in truth, it’s only the last issue which really matters to them. Pincher’s groping hands, Boris’s parties and his repeated lies would be mere footnotes if the Tories were still consistently ahead in the polls.

    And Johnson would already be gone if the Tories were 20% adrift of Labour rather than averaging more like 6-7%. Small wonder if Mr & Mrs Average end up regarding politics and its practitioners as entirely devoid of ethics and principle. The evidence against them is overwhelming.

    Meanwhile, in other news, most of the British population is now living hand-to-mouth, or something very close to it:

    Most Lloyds Bank customers have less than £500 of savings in their accounts, its chief executive said.

    The head of the UK's biggest high street bank told the BBC: "80% of individuals and UK customers and families have less than £500 pounds worth of savings in their current account and their savings account."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62057301

    Frankly, the more I think about this, the more astonishing it becomes. The customer base of Lloyds must be broadly representative of the general population. I might've guessed that about a third of us had nothing or next to nothing in the bank, but four-fifths?!?! Anybody in this position who finds themselves out of a job, or with unexpected bills to settle, is immediately going to have to resort to debt - if they've not already maxed out their capacity to do so. Those of working age who end up unemployed, or having to take a new job with a substantial cut in income, will be staring almost immediately down the barrel of heat or eat dilemmas or being slung out onto the street.

    Essentially, a finding like this implies that most of the country - especially all those still paying rent or a mortgage - is now part of the precariat. Any significant spike in unemployment and a lot of these people will be sunk.

    driving around the M60 not so long ago I was struck by the sheer number of costly cars.... BMWs, VWs other top spec brands.... not sure how it sits with the above.
    So many "costly" cars are on cheap PCP deals issued when manufacturers could actually build cars and needed to hit a sales target.
    A friend works in private banking for a bank that has an illustrious name. Perhaps “used to have an illustrious name”…

    It seems that they got lax about vetting the customers they allowed to join. And lending them money afterwards

    He describes large numbers of people who owned 5% of some very nice, completely unproductive assets and a fistful of credits cards drawn to the max.

    One of his jobs was to force such people to sell the unproductive assets and get the money for the bank back. Quite simply he was reducing peoples lifestyles by an order of magnitude.

    His guesstimate was that about 70% of the “rich” people you see, out and about, are fake.

    OT: toast still stuck in the toaster. Things will not change until there is proper vetting of new MPs. And, in a world of professional politicians who know nothing but Parliament, systematic professional training and development.
    It's bizarre. Living well within your means is a much happier state to be in.
    People living stress free, happy lives on middling incomes don't attract hordes of Instagram followers. Professional wankers posing in front of Ferraris do. Consumer capitalism and social media both promote the joys of empty, meaningless acquisition to great effect. A lot of people exist only to accumulate stuff.
    In knitting circles there's a concept known as SABLE - Stash Acquisition Beyond Life Expectancy. This is the acquisition of more yarn than a knitter has time remaining in their life to knit.

    There's a universal desire to collect things, driven in part by fear of future scarcity. I'm a bit more scared of a future scarcity of money to spend all my money protecting myself from a future scarcity of wool, but I don't think the two impulses are as different as people suppose.

    In some respects fearing a future scarcity of something that holds intrinsic value, such as knitting yarn, is more rational than building up a store of something that only has value because other people believe it does, like currency.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Zahawi is so far out of his depth it's embarrassing. He is the perfect Johnson Chancellor.

    The Today interview was even less convincing that the dodgy brief who was sent out to bat for the PM in the Commons yesterday.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The Flintstones as

    It’s weird how DALL-E hasn’t *quite* mastered eyes and noses - yet. I suspect this is a lagging glitch from its former constraint - don’t use faces

    Not another day of this drivel please.

    Is there really nothing better to do in Montenegro than spam a political website with this stuff?
    I thought they were his holiday snaps?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The Flintstones as

    It’s weird how DALL-E hasn’t *quite* mastered eyes and noses - yet. I suspect this is a lagging glitch from its former constraint - don’t use faces

    Not another day of this drivel please.

    Is there really nothing better to do in Montenegro than spam a political website with this stuff?
    Feel free to scroll past

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: the resignations have started again.

    Laura Trott, a rising star of the 2019 Tory intake, has quit has PPS to the Department for Transport:

    "Trust in politics is - and must always be - of the upmost importance, but sadly in recent months this has been lost. "

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1544579661971296261

    "In recent months". What a twat.
    Another reason the solicitor generals resignation was the best justified so far - he made direct reference to cumulative effect of scandals going back to last year.

    So while people might lament it took him so long at least he acknowledged the problems go way back and it just became too much. Not that the problems are new.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Jonathan said:

    Oh dear Zahawi. Oh dear.

    He burned through his entire reserves of self-respect during that interview.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited July 2022
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    pigeon said:

    When it comes to it, MPs of whatever party, no matter how high-minded they can be when it’s their opponents in trouble, will overlook pretty much anything if they can justify it in pursuit of a higher cause (usually their job) and the polls have not turned against them. And, in truth, it’s only the last issue which really matters to them. Pincher’s groping hands, Boris’s parties and his repeated lies would be mere footnotes if the Tories were still consistently ahead in the polls.

    And Johnson would already be gone if the Tories were 20% adrift of Labour rather than averaging more like 6-7%. Small wonder if Mr & Mrs Average end up regarding politics and its practitioners as entirely devoid of ethics and principle. The evidence against them is overwhelming.

    Meanwhile, in other news, most of the British population is now living hand-to-mouth, or something very close to it:

    Most Lloyds Bank customers have less than £500 of savings in their accounts, its chief executive said.

    The head of the UK's biggest high street bank told the BBC: "80% of individuals and UK customers and families have less than £500 pounds worth of savings in their current account and their savings account."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62057301

    Frankly, the more I think about this, the more astonishing it becomes. The customer base of Lloyds must be broadly representative of the general population. I might've guessed that about a third of us had nothing or next to nothing in the bank, but four-fifths?!?! Anybody in this position who finds themselves out of a job, or with unexpected bills to settle, is immediately going to have to resort to debt - if they've not already maxed out their capacity to do so. Those of working age who end up unemployed, or having to take a new job with a substantial cut in income, will be staring almost immediately down the barrel of heat or eat dilemmas or being slung out onto the street.

    Essentially, a finding like this implies that most of the country - especially all those still paying rent or a mortgage - is now part of the precariat. Any significant spike in unemployment and a lot of these people will be sunk.

    driving around the M60 not so long ago I was struck by the sheer number of costly cars.... BMWs, VWs other top spec brands.... not sure how it sits with the above.
    So many "costly" cars are on cheap PCP deals issued when manufacturers could actually build cars and needed to hit a sales target.
    It has been a not yet enacted project of mine to go around taking photos of thoroughly normal perhaps council two-up two-downs with brand spanking new Range Rover Velars parked in front of them.
    I noted that tendency in some rougher areas where I live. A south African girl I knew said youd see a similar thing in townships.
    On that savings point. How do Lloyds know what their customers hold in accounts with other banks? It's not as if the high street banks are usually particularly great for interest rates.

    But even so, you'd want to have a month or two in the savings account next to your current account, for immediate transfer as needed.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    IanB2 said:

    Breaking - Lord Quince resigns

    He was Will Quince, MP for Colchester last time I looked!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: the resignations have started again.

    Laura Trott, a rising star of the 2019 Tory intake, has quit has PPS to the Department for Transport:

    "Trust in politics is - and must always be - of the upmost importance, but sadly in recent months this has been lost. "

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1544579661971296261

    It hangs on whether Coffey or some other relatively senior ministers come to the right decision today.
    I can't believe she has stayed. Incredible. Reputation being shredded by the hour.

    As a low profile member of cabinet she could keep her job under a new PM, she should have gone for it.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Leon said:

    DALL-E 2 MORNING UPDATE

    DALL-E is now getting scarily, scarily good at faces. Despite the fact that faces have only been “permitted” for a week or two



    That person does not exist. Yet the only tiny clue is some blurring at the hairline/temple

    Conclusions: the potential for porn deep fakes is troubling. You’re still not allowed to use “real” faces - but inevitably that prohibition will fail. You’ll be able to depict anyone doing anything with 100% accuracy

    Also: photography as “art” is finished. Dead. DALL-E does this for free in seconds, 24/7

    Also: what happens when DALL-E is allowed to do moving images? Films? TV? With AI voice generation that will open up amazing possibilities for movies made with entirely fake “people” - who don’t need to be paid

    Wasn't this guy a Tory MP?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Roger said:

    Nick Robinson just gets better. His 8.05 slot isn't to be missed

    Zahawi is being skewered and it is well deserved.

    What a creep.......

    8.15, I think.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The Flintstones as

    It’s weird how DALL-E hasn’t *quite* mastered eyes and noses - yet. I suspect this is a lagging glitch from its former constraint - don’t use faces

    Not another day of this drivel please.

    Is there really nothing better to do in Montenegro than spam a political website with this stuff?
    Dwelling abroad in wonderful locations and spending all the time sitting on a (minor) UK political forum ... it's really sad.

    There is an alternative which is to immerse yourself in local culture. Get to know the people properly, try to speak their language, learn about their history and passions. It takes time and effort but is ultimately a much deeper experience and also gives you a much less superficial understanding of the world.

    Even as a tourist it's possible to immerse yourself in places, which many people do when they go on holiday.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking - Lord Quince resigns

    He was Will Quince, MP for Colchester last time I looked!
    Apparently he is (was) an education minister. But more significantly he was the one who agreed to go on the radio and tell Boris's lies on Monday, when no-one more senior would.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Just remarkable the cowardice and lack of judgement from almost all the Cabinet (a pass might be given to Wallace).

    This Wallace?

    ‘Defence Secretary Ben Wallace confirms 10,000 troop cut to the size of the British Army’


    How old is that? The Sea Kings are long gone since 2018 with only two in private hands at Portland for Marineflieger training.
    The carriers look the wrong way round too.
    IIRC we have 45 F35b, now
    24. 3 more due this year with all 47 delivered by the end of 2025.

    The acquisition rate was slowed down to, you guessed it, save money.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking - Lord Quince resigns

    He was Will Quince, MP for Colchester last time I looked!
    Lord! Quince resigns!
  • I would like to thank Nadhim for making Rachel Reeves look so good
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Roger said:

    Nick Robinson just gets better. His 8.05 slot isn't to be missed

    Zahawi is being skewered and it is well deserved.

    What a creep.......

    Was it just days ago that PBers were bigging up Zahawi as a model of good judgment and probity, relatively untainted by the BJ slurry spreader?
    Some. It became apparent some while ago he was shameless in defending the shameful as well.
  • 8/32 = 25%
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited July 2022
    Has nobody complimented Cyclefree on her header?

    I daresay it's entirely typical of the HoC that the MPs* are hogging all the limelight. Even though it's as a direct result of their sins. I know the Prodigal Son got a lot more attention than his goody twoshoes brother. But at least he repented and saw the light.

    Edit: And, to some extent, the HoL and Peers.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    Funny AND true.




  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    pigeon said:

    When it comes to it, MPs of whatever party, no matter how high-minded they can be when it’s their opponents in trouble, will overlook pretty much anything if they can justify it in pursuit of a higher cause (usually their job) and the polls have not turned against them. And, in truth, it’s only the last issue which really matters to them. Pincher’s groping hands, Boris’s parties and his repeated lies would be mere footnotes if the Tories were still consistently ahead in the polls.

    And Johnson would already be gone if the Tories were 20% adrift of Labour rather than averaging more like 6-7%. Small wonder if Mr & Mrs Average end up regarding politics and its practitioners as entirely devoid of ethics and principle. The evidence against them is overwhelming.

    Meanwhile, in other news, most of the British population is now living hand-to-mouth, or something very close to it:

    Most Lloyds Bank customers have less than £500 of savings in their accounts, its chief executive said.

    The head of the UK's biggest high street bank told the BBC: "80% of individuals and UK customers and families have less than £500 pounds worth of savings in their current account and their savings account."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62057301

    Frankly, the more I think about this, the more astonishing it becomes. The customer base of Lloyds must be broadly representative of the general population. I might've guessed that about a third of us had nothing or next to nothing in the bank, but four-fifths?!?! Anybody in this position who finds themselves out of a job, or with unexpected bills to settle, is immediately going to have to resort to debt - if they've not already maxed out their capacity to do so. Those of working age who end up unemployed, or having to take a new job with a substantial cut in income, will be staring almost immediately down the barrel of heat or eat dilemmas or being slung out onto the street.

    Essentially, a finding like this implies that most of the country - especially all those still paying rent or a mortgage - is now part of the precariat. Any significant spike in unemployment and a lot of these people will be sunk.

    driving around the M60 not so long ago I was struck by the sheer number of costly cars.... BMWs, VWs other top spec brands.... not sure how it sits with the above.
    So many "costly" cars are on cheap PCP deals issued when manufacturers could actually build cars and needed to hit a sales target.
    It has been a not yet enacted project of mine to go around taking photos of thoroughly normal perhaps council two-up two-downs with brand spanking new Range Rover Velars parked in front of them.
    I noted that tendency in some rougher areas where I live. A south African girl I knew said youd see a similar thing in townships.
    On that savings point. How fo Lloyds know what their customers hold in accounts with other banks? It's not as if the high street banks are usually particularly great for interest rates.

    But even so, you'd want to have a month or two in the savings account next to your current account, for immediate transfer as needed.
    I genuinely have no idea what a good amount of savings would be to have as a contingency. I've always been fortunate I can err on the side of caution.
  • Laura Trott, utmost not upmost lol
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Any fiscally dry member of the government benches is going to be recoiling at the Johnson/Zahawi plan and wanting them out before they lock us into an inflation spiral, with their plan for massive public sector pay rises funded by debt printing. This is already proving to not be a shrewd appointment.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    I would like to thank Nadhim for making Rachel Reeves look so good

    I don't think he would be the worst Chancellor, but the timing is all wrong.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting to see how markets and the BoE respond IF Nadhim Zahawi opens the chequebook on public sector pay and cuts taxes in the middle of an inflationary crisis.. https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1544570044323188738

    Interesting isn't the word I'd use.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Carnyx said:

    Has nobody complimented Cyclefree on her header?

    No, I think most of us thought it was a bit out of place today tbh.
  • Andrew Murrison, who's just resigned as trade envoy to Morocco, says a third cabinet resignation is coming later today.
    https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/20258262.wiltshire-mp-reveals-third-cabinet-resignation-come-tonight/?ref=rss
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Scott_xP said:

    I don’t want to alarm you but a corrupt & discredited leader’s determination to cling on to power at any cost at all is often the backdrop to terrible things. And, as we saw in America just 18 months ago, to some very near misses.
    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1544577416542183425

    Totally different situation. Johnson still commands a majority in the house (VONC in the house would show that - no way would the conservatives bring him down like that). And a very different electoral system. No need for counties (say) to ratify the votes in each ward. So no legal route.

    And frankly, yes we all hate his guts, and yes his power has gone, but he is still able to form a cabinet (currently).

    Utter hyperbole.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,899

    Jonathan said:

    ‘The SNP will be rejoicing at Starmer's hard Brexit line‘

    "MAKE Brexit Work” sounds like one of Boris Johnson's test slogans for the next General Election. In fact it is now Labour's headline policy following Sir Keir Starmer's remarkable conversion to the Brexit cause. He unveiled the new slogan in a speech to the Centre for European Reform.

    It's an unexpected gift to Nicola Sturgeon, whose latest Indyref plan was getting heavy weather from sceptics in and out of the SNP. Suddenly she leads the only serious pro-European party in Scotland, apart from the Greens and the LibDems. Getting 50 per cent of the vote in the 2024 General Election looks easier now that the SNP is the obvious destination for the 62 per cent of Scots who voted to remain in the EU.

    (The Herald €)

    The SNP are promising yet more upheaval. Labour are promising relatively stability and a path to recovery. I am not sure the Scots will vote for more Brexit style chaos. A split in the U.K. will make Brexit look like a picnic.
    Labour and the Tories: two faces of the same dud coin.
    SNP and Tories, surely? Vote SNP for a Conservative government. Scots voters need to think separately about Westminster and Holyrood elections.
    You mean Labour needs Scots voters to think separately about Westminster and Holyrood elections? Not that voters ‘need’ to do anything, as all parties find out sooner or later.
    No, I mean that Scots voters who do not want a Conservative government in Westminster need to stop voting for the SNP in Westminster elections, even if they support and vote for the SNP at Holyrood.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    FTSE soaring on the news that the liar king may soon be gone....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    pigeon said:

    When it comes to it, MPs of whatever party, no matter how high-minded they can be when it’s their opponents in trouble, will overlook pretty much anything if they can justify it in pursuit of a higher cause (usually their job) and the polls have not turned against them. And, in truth, it’s only the last issue which really matters to them. Pincher’s groping hands, Boris’s parties and his repeated lies would be mere footnotes if the Tories were still consistently ahead in the polls.

    And Johnson would already be gone if the Tories were 20% adrift of Labour rather than averaging more like 6-7%. Small wonder if Mr & Mrs Average end up regarding politics and its practitioners as entirely devoid of ethics and principle. The evidence against them is overwhelming.

    Meanwhile, in other news, most of the British population is now living hand-to-mouth, or something very close to it:

    Most Lloyds Bank customers have less than £500 of savings in their accounts, its chief executive said.

    The head of the UK's biggest high street bank told the BBC: "80% of individuals and UK customers and families have less than £500 pounds worth of savings in their current account and their savings account."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62057301

    Frankly, the more I think about this, the more astonishing it becomes. The customer base of Lloyds must be broadly representative of the general population. I might've guessed that about a third of us had nothing or next to nothing in the bank, but four-fifths?!?! Anybody in this position who finds themselves out of a job, or with unexpected bills to settle, is immediately going to have to resort to debt - if they've not already maxed out their capacity to do so. Those of working age who end up unemployed, or having to take a new job with a substantial cut in income, will be staring almost immediately down the barrel of heat or eat dilemmas or being slung out onto the street.

    Essentially, a finding like this implies that most of the country - especially all those still paying rent or a mortgage - is now part of the precariat. Any significant spike in unemployment and a lot of these people will be sunk.

    driving around the M60 not so long ago I was struck by the sheer number of costly cars.... BMWs, VWs other top spec brands.... not sure how it sits with the above.
    So many "costly" cars are on cheap PCP deals issued when manufacturers could actually build cars and needed to hit a sales target.
    It has been a not yet enacted project of mine to go around taking photos of thoroughly normal perhaps council two-up two-downs with brand spanking new Range Rover Velars parked in front of them.
    I noted that tendency in some rougher areas where I live. A south African girl I knew said youd see a similar thing in townships.
    On that savings point. How fo Lloyds know what their customers hold in accounts with other banks? It's not as if the high street banks are usually particularly great for interest rates.

    But even so, you'd want to have a month or two in the savings account next to your current account, for immediate transfer as needed.
    I genuinely have no idea what a good amount of savings would be to have as a contingency. I've always been fortunate I can err on the side of caution.
    Quite. A logical minimum for an *immediate access* account adjacent to the current account is one months' income - in case there is a problem with your pay bank transfer, let alone worse. But financial advice columns seem to for 3-6 months which seems sensible, with anything above in possibly time limited accounts with other banks etc (even if they can be withdrawn early, it's penalised, hassle and slower). Either way, £500 won't cut it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    The Flintstones as real people




    It’s weird how DALL-E hasn’t *quite* mastered eyes and noses - yet. I suspect this is a lagging glitch from its former constraint - don’t use faces

    Hair colours totally wrong for Betty and Barny. Fail.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking - Lord Quince resigns

    He was Will Quince, MP for Colchester last time I looked!
    Apparently he is (was) an education minister. But more significantly he was the one who agreed to go on the radio and tell Boris's lies on Monday, when no-one more senior would.
    And felt aggrieved, when he realised what had been done to him!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited July 2022

    Jonathan said:

    ‘The SNP will be rejoicing at Starmer's hard Brexit line‘

    "MAKE Brexit Work” sounds like one of Boris Johnson's test slogans for the next General Election. In fact it is now Labour's headline policy following Sir Keir Starmer's remarkable conversion to the Brexit cause. He unveiled the new slogan in a speech to the Centre for European Reform.

    It's an unexpected gift to Nicola Sturgeon, whose latest Indyref plan was getting heavy weather from sceptics in and out of the SNP. Suddenly she leads the only serious pro-European party in Scotland, apart from the Greens and the LibDems. Getting 50 per cent of the vote in the 2024 General Election looks easier now that the SNP is the obvious destination for the 62 per cent of Scots who voted to remain in the EU.

    (The Herald €)

    The SNP are promising yet more upheaval. Labour are promising relatively stability and a path to recovery. I am not sure the Scots will vote for more Brexit style chaos. A split in the U.K. will make Brexit look like a picnic.
    Labour and the Tories: two faces of the same dud coin.
    SNP and Tories, surely? Vote SNP for a Conservative government. Scots voters need to think separately about Westminster and Holyrood elections.
    You mean Labour needs Scots voters to think separately about Westminster and Holyrood elections? Not that voters ‘need’ to do anything, as all parties find out sooner or later.
    No, I mean that Scots voters who do not want a Conservative government in Westminster need to stop voting for the SNP in Westminster elections, even if they support and vote for the SNP at Holyrood.
    Nonsense. Not Labour is not the same as Tory.

    And note Labour and Conservative policies converging. Look how Corbynite the Johnson-Zahawi economics are.

    And would you make the same argument about LD MPs in Scotland and elsewhere?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    edited July 2022

    Jonathan said:

    ‘The SNP will be rejoicing at Starmer's hard Brexit line‘

    "MAKE Brexit Work” sounds like one of Boris Johnson's test slogans for the next General Election. In fact it is now Labour's headline policy following Sir Keir Starmer's remarkable conversion to the Brexit cause. He unveiled the new slogan in a speech to the Centre for European Reform.

    It's an unexpected gift to Nicola Sturgeon, whose latest Indyref plan was getting heavy weather from sceptics in and out of the SNP. Suddenly she leads the only serious pro-European party in Scotland, apart from the Greens and the LibDems. Getting 50 per cent of the vote in the 2024 General Election looks easier now that the SNP is the obvious destination for the 62 per cent of Scots who voted to remain in the EU.

    (The Herald €)

    The SNP are promising yet more upheaval. Labour are promising relatively stability and a path to recovery. I am not sure the Scots will vote for more Brexit style chaos. A split in the U.K. will make Brexit look like a picnic.
    Labour and the Tories: two faces of the same dud coin.
    SNP and Tories, surely? Vote SNP for a Conservative government. Scots voters need to think separately about Westminster and Holyrood elections.
    You mean Labour needs Scots voters to think separately about Westminster and Holyrood elections? Not that voters ‘need’ to do anything, as all parties find out sooner or later.
    No, I mean that Scots voters who do not want a Conservative government in Westminster need to stop voting for the SNP in Westminster elections, even if they support and vote for the SNP at Holyrood.
    What would have happened in the last 4 general elections if every Scottish constituency had returned a Labour MP?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: the resignations have started again.

    Laura Trott, a rising star of the 2019 Tory intake, has quit has PPS to the Department for Transport:

    "Trust in politics is - and must always be - of the upmost importance, but sadly in recent months this has been lost. "

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1544579661971296261

    It hangs on whether Coffey or some other relatively senior ministers come to the right decision today.
    I can't believe she has stayed. Incredible. Reputation being shredded by the hour.

    As a low profile member of cabinet she could keep her job under a new PM, she should have gone for it.
    Exactly.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Jonathan said:

    ‘The SNP will be rejoicing at Starmer's hard Brexit line‘

    "MAKE Brexit Work” sounds like one of Boris Johnson's test slogans for the next General Election. In fact it is now Labour's headline policy following Sir Keir Starmer's remarkable conversion to the Brexit cause. He unveiled the new slogan in a speech to the Centre for European Reform.

    It's an unexpected gift to Nicola Sturgeon, whose latest Indyref plan was getting heavy weather from sceptics in and out of the SNP. Suddenly she leads the only serious pro-European party in Scotland, apart from the Greens and the LibDems. Getting 50 per cent of the vote in the 2024 General Election looks easier now that the SNP is the obvious destination for the 62 per cent of Scots who voted to remain in the EU.

    (The Herald €)

    The SNP are promising yet more upheaval. Labour are promising relatively stability and a path to recovery. I am not sure the Scots will vote for more Brexit style chaos. A split in the U.K. will make Brexit look like a picnic.
    Labour and the Tories: two faces of the same dud coin.
    SNP and Tories, surely? Vote SNP for a Conservative government. Scots voters need to think separately about Westminster and Holyrood elections.
    You mean Labour needs Scots voters to think separately about Westminster and Holyrood elections? Not that voters ‘need’ to do anything, as all parties find out sooner or later.
    No, I mean that Scots voters who do not want a Conservative government in Westminster need to stop voting for the SNP in Westminster elections, even if they support and vote for the SNP at Holyrood.
    Given the SNP would never support the Tories at Westminster, Scots voters are unlikely to make much difference either way.

    Even if most SNP seats went back to Labour on current polls that would only be the difference between Labour most seats and a Labour majority. It would still require most of the redwall seats to go back to Labour from the Tories for the Tories to lose their majority first
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The Flintstones as

    It’s weird how DALL-E hasn’t *quite* mastered eyes and noses - yet. I suspect this is a lagging glitch from its former constraint - don’t use faces

    Not another day of this drivel please.

    Is there really nothing better to do in Montenegro than spam a political website with this stuff?
    Dwelling abroad in wonderful locations and spending all the time sitting on a (minor) UK political forum ... it's really sad.

    There is an alternative which is to immerse yourself in local culture. Get to know the people properly, try to speak their language, learn about their history and passions. It takes time and effort but is ultimately a much deeper experience and also gives you a much less superficial understanding of the world.

    Even as a tourist it's possible to immerse yourself in places, which many people do when they go on holiday.
    On this one trip I’ve been to Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana - driving from Nashville to New Orleans. I then went straight to Turkey via Germany and worked in Kusadasi, then I got a boat to Samos and then a couple of days later flew to Athens. Then I went on a long busy journey to Preveza and picked up a car

    From there I spent a week driving around Epirus and Meteora




    After that I bussed back to Athens, where I flew to Tbilisi Georgia. I spent two weeks in Georgia visiting Stalinist museums and 12th century monasteries, then I flew to Armenia, got another car, drove all over Armenia from Yerevan to Areni to Lake Sevan to Dilijan

    Then I flew back to Tbilisi, spent a few nights there, and finally flew to Montenegro via Istanbul. I’m now in the royal capital of Cetinje and from
    here I go to Lake Skadar

    I’ve been drunk with Yanks in Tupelo, Greeks in Parga, Russians in Gnishik, and Megrelians in Mrshketa. I’ve seen 1500 year old Ossetian churches and 90 year old New Orleans trannies and 1 week old Montegrin liquors and 10,000 year old carved megaliths and myself in the mirror looking about 390 years old after three months of nonstop travel and “immersion”

    I am now having some downtime. I’m sorry you are stuck in a semi in Surrey
  • Nadhim is a groper himself, he likes to grope women at parties allegedly

    Adding the word allegedly won't stop OGH being in trouble, @PBModerator has a firm rule against making allegations like that against people unless cited by legitimate news sources.
    Yes the FT reported as much. Alleged groper
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited July 2022
    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The Flintstones as

    It’s weird how DALL-E hasn’t *quite* mastered eyes and noses - yet. I suspect this is a lagging glitch from its former constraint - don’t use faces

    Not another day of this drivel please.

    Is there really nothing better to do in Montenegro than spam a political website with this stuff?
    Dwelling abroad in wonderful locations and spending all the time sitting on a (minor) UK political forum ... it's really sad.

    There is an alternative which is to immerse yourself in local culture. Get to know the people properly, try to speak their language, learn about their history and passions. It takes time and effort but is ultimately a much deeper experience and also gives you a much less superficial understanding of the world.

    Even as a tourist it's possible to immerse yourself in places, which many people do when they go on holiday.
    Out of order. Please don't make comments or cast nasturtiums about when, why, where or how people post on PB. All of us could have the finger pointed at us for being on here at various times and it is wholly without merit. People post on here for any number of reasons.

    Criticise @Leon for any of 1,000,000,000,000 valid reasons. But not just because he is posting instead of doing something else.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited July 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Good to have another Chancellor with a practical understanding of tax avoidance.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Fraser/status/1544427929916133381
    UK’s new chancellor of the exchequer Nadhim Zahawi used company in tax haven to buy his Warwickshire constituency home...

    How much tax has he avoided? (serious question)

    As I make it that will be subject to Stamp Duty, quite likely the supplementary 3% Stamp Duty, the £7,700 per annum (2023 number) for Annual Tax on Enveloped Dwellings, and usual tax on company profits (whatever applies to offshore companies) when he sells it. Plus a possible extra weight on Council Tax - not clear how that is done.

    It's not quite my field - what saving does he make? Periodic CGT or IHT on a second dwelling, perhaps - in exchange for the 0.5% capital value tax?

    Certainly a lot of Zahawi mudslinging has started.

    The Mirror has a long piece full of lurid statements, and peppered with things such as "prior to Mr Zahawi’s involvement", "This could be interpreted as", and so on.

    Sounds like they don't actually have anything.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-minister-nadhim-zahawi-pockets-25457511
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    @CorrectHorseBattery - link or it didn't happen.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,899
    edited July 2022
    Heathener said:

    Carnyx said:

    Has nobody complimented Cyclefree on her header?

    No, I think most of us thought it was a bit out of place today tbh.
    No, I liked the header and if you think about the most recent holes Boris has been in, the header is to the point. But it is tiresome if people just write "nice header" so I don't. Perhaps there should be a like button on headers as there is on btl posts. @rcs1000 is this possible?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak, Sajid Javid, Alex Chalk represent 3 v different Tory traditions - Boris Johnson has now lost every wing of the party - he can no longer govern - speaking on @GMB at 820
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1544580977334386690

    None of them represent the hard Brexit, tax cut wing
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    edited July 2022
    MattW said:

    pigeon said:

    When it comes to it, MPs of whatever party, no matter how high-minded they can be when it’s their opponents in trouble, will overlook pretty much anything if they can justify it in pursuit of a higher cause (usually their job) and the polls have not turned against them. And, in truth, it’s only the last issue which really matters to them. Pincher’s groping hands, Boris’s parties and his repeated lies would be mere footnotes if the Tories were still consistently ahead in the polls.

    And Johnson would already be gone if the Tories were 20% adrift of Labour rather than averaging more like 6-7%. Small wonder if Mr & Mrs Average end up regarding politics and its practitioners as entirely devoid of ethics and principle. The evidence against them is overwhelming.

    Meanwhile, in other news, most of the British population is now living hand-to-mouth, or something very close to it:

    Most Lloyds Bank customers have less than £500 of savings in their accounts, its chief executive said.

    The head of the UK's biggest high street bank told the BBC: "80% of individuals and UK customers and families have less than £500 pounds worth of savings in their current account and their savings account."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62057301

    Frankly, the more I think about this, the more astonishing it becomes. The customer base of Lloyds must be broadly representative of the general population. I might've guessed that about a third of us had nothing or next to nothing in the bank, but four-fifths?!?! Anybody in this position who finds themselves out of a job, or with unexpected bills to settle, is immediately going to have to resort to debt - if they've not already maxed out their capacity to do so. Those of working age who end up unemployed, or having to take a new job with a substantial cut in income, will be staring almost immediately down the barrel of heat or eat dilemmas or being slung out onto the street.

    Essentially, a finding like this implies that most of the country - especially all those still paying rent or a mortgage - is now part of the precariat. Any significant spike in unemployment and a lot of these people will be sunk.

    driving around the M60 not so long ago I was struck by the sheer number of costly cars.... BMWs, VWs other top spec brands.... not sure how it sits with the above.
    So many "costly" cars are on cheap PCP deals issued when manufacturers could actually build cars and needed to hit a sales target.
    A friend works in private banking for a bank that has an illustrious name. Perhaps “used to have an illustrious name”…

    It seems that they got lax about vetting the customers they allowed to join. And lending them money afterwards

    He describes large numbers of people who owned 5% of some very nice, completely unproductive assets and a fistful of credits cards drawn to the max.

    One of his jobs was to force such people to sell the unproductive assets and get the money for the bank back. Quite simply he was reducing peoples lifestyles by an order of magnitude.

    His guesstimate was that about 70% of the “rich” people you see, out and about, are fake.

    OT: toast still stuck in the toaster. Things will not change until there is proper vetting of new MPs. And, in a world of professional politicians who know nothing but Parliament, systematic professional training and development.
    It's bizarre. Living well within your means is a much happier state to be in.
    I don't believe the Lloyds numbers to be representative of the overall picture - it looks like current account and immediate reserve savings, and overdone conclusions. What Which used to call 'emergency money'.

    For example, 10 million people save into Personal Pensions, around 13 million into ISAs in the most recent year I can see.

    The 80% figure as an overall number is misleading imo.

    Lloyds will only know about people's accounts with them. Many of those 80% could have an ISA with a different bank or building society.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Andrew Murrison, who's just resigned as trade envoy to Morocco, says a third cabinet resignation is coming later today.
    https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/20258262.wiltshire-mp-reveals-third-cabinet-resignation-come-tonight/?ref=rss

    Gove ?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Scott_xP said:

    TOPPING said:

    It has been a not yet enacted project of mine to go around taking photos of thoroughly normal perhaps council two-up two-downs with brand spanking new Range Rover Velars parked in front of them.

    There is a caravan park near me where the cars outside are Range Rovers and Mercedes
    Yep. Junior's primary school has a lot of traveller kids. The middle-class parents turn up in beaten-up old Honda Jazzes, 10-year old Mondeos and the odd bike. The traveller parents turn up in Audis and BMWs.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    I thought Boris would probably resign on Monday. I’m starting to think that was overstating his chances.

    ====

    He will never resign. Haven't these commentators worked that out yet?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    For those with long memories, it's pretty clear that the job Johnson has handed to the already magnificently unimpressive Zahawi is to engineer a Barber boom (look it up, young people) but without the downsides. It is not possible.
  • Goodness me Nadhim looked out of his depth on Sky News. Poor guy
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    IanB2 said:

    Breaking - Lord Quince resigns

    He's no longer a membrillo of the government?

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    ConHome (Goodman): Few people find it easy to change and Johnson won’t even pretend to try. So I wrote [recently] that it was now up to the Cabinet to tell the Prime Minister that the game was up.

    ...each Conservative MP must decide for himself or herself what to do next...what will worry Conservative MPs most is a growing view that Number Ten can’t stick to anything and doesn’t tell the truth – not so much to voters (which I’m afraid they will take more or less for granted), but to them, whether the matter to hand is Downing Street wallpaper, parties, Afghan dogs, Paterson, “buyer’s remorse” or the football Superleague.

    ...what’s likely to follow is the fourth iteration of Downing Street’s top team in less than three years; a troubled Party Conference, gridlock over the Northern Ireland Protocol and six months of governmental paralysis as we await the Privileges Committee’s inquiry – all amidst the worst drop in living standards in modern times.

    The legend is that it would take Delta Force or the equivalent to prise Johnson out of Number Ten. But I wonder whether if thwarted he might just storm off, leaving no agreed Prime Ministerial successor and a political crisis in his wake.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,043

    Nadhim is a groper himself, he likes to grope women at parties allegedly

    Adding the word allegedly won't stop OGH being in trouble, @PBModerator has a firm rule against making allegations like that against people unless cited by legitimate news sources.
    I cannot believe anyone should be allowed to throw out such a statement without evidence allegedly or otherwise on this forum
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    TOPPING said:

    It has been a not yet enacted project of mine to go around taking photos of thoroughly normal perhaps council two-up two-downs with brand spanking new Range Rover Velars parked in front of them.

    There is a caravan park near me where the cars outside are Range Rovers and Mercedes
    A surplus of new cars sold off via very cheap monthly lease deals is also a thing of the past. So that Land Rover you promised yourself at £449 a month is no more and rising fast.
  • Let's see how long it takes for me to be banned - after all Leon gets away with it
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Morning,

    The Pm fights on, after two bombshell resignations.

    No10 sources say Sajid Javid warned the PM he would quit but Rishi Sunak didn’t

    And that the PM feels “liberated” to go for growth - as well tax cuts - with a chancellor “who is an entrepreneur not a banker”.

    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1544560234781462529


    Unless the '22 get their act together we are so screwed

    Yep. Boris is about to apply the same approach to his personal spending to the British economy. The Daily Express may love it but Boris is someone who is on the verge of bankruptcy and who borrows from one credit card to 'pay off' another.

    He won't care as long as it keeps him in office for a bit longer.
    There is a very real danger that Johnson does irreparable damage to the nation's finances in the cause of his own self-preservation and then buggers off to America or somewhere when it is over leaving us to pick up the pieces. He is surely going to go down as the worst PM in modern history by a country mile.

    With the exception of HUFYD every Tory leaning poster on PB has turned against Johnson yet the Cabinet and huge sections of the membership still don't get it. It is genuinely baffling. I kinda see why why the cabinet stick with him because most of them are no-marks who would never be seen again without Johnson's patronage but are the membership really that dim and out of touch? (Perhaps I have just answered my own question)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    Yerevan



    New Orleans!



    Tbilisi


    Tennessee…


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    Nadhim is a groper himself, he likes to grope women at parties allegedly

    ... if Boris goes ...
    The wall is starting to crumble?
  • FT on the Presidents Club dinner mentions Zahawi once;

    "From the world of politics were Nadhim Zahawi, newly appointed undersecretary of state for children and families, and Jonathan Mendelsohn, a Labour peer and party fundraiser."

    https://www.ft.com/content/075d679e-0033-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c5b5

    CorrectScurrilousHorseBattery
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good to have another Chancellor with a practical understanding of tax avoidance.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Fraser/status/1544427929916133381
    UK’s new chancellor of the exchequer Nadhim Zahawi used company in tax haven to buy his Warwickshire constituency home...

    How much tax has he avoided? (serious question)

    As I make it that will be subject to Stamp Duty, quite likely the supplementary 3% Stamp Duty, the £7,700 per annum (2023 number) for Annual Tax on Enveloped Dwellings, and usual tax on company profits (whatever applies to offshore companies) when he sells it. Plus a possible extra weight on Council Tax - not clear how that is done.

    It's not quite my field - what saving does he make? Periodic CGT or IHT on a second dwelling, perhaps - in exchange for the 0.5% capital value tax?

    Certainly a lot of Zahawi mudslinging has started.

    The Mirror has a long piece full of lurid statements, and peppered with things such as "prior to Mr Zahawi’s involvement", "This could be interpreted as", and so on.

    Sounds like they don't actually have anything.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-minister-nadhim-zahawi-pockets-25457511
    Given that that offshore money comes from UK earnings - possibly quite a bit...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    I would like to thank Nadhim for making Rachel Reeves look so good

    Just heard her being economical with the truth on R5 - asked 'You're enjoying this aren't you?' - she denied it.
    Ridiculous - of course she is, I would be too if I were a Labour MP. I know she can't say that live on the radio.

    Which is of course the heart of the problem - we mock government ministers for spinning, yet sometimes the questions you get asked have no sensible answer that you can give.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    pigeon said:

    When it comes to it, MPs of whatever party, no matter how high-minded they can be when it’s their opponents in trouble, will overlook pretty much anything if they can justify it in pursuit of a higher cause (usually their job) and the polls have not turned against them. And, in truth, it’s only the last issue which really matters to them. Pincher’s groping hands, Boris’s parties and his repeated lies would be mere footnotes if the Tories were still consistently ahead in the polls.

    And Johnson would already be gone if the Tories were 20% adrift of Labour rather than averaging more like 6-7%. Small wonder if Mr & Mrs Average end up regarding politics and its practitioners as entirely devoid of ethics and principle. The evidence against them is overwhelming.

    Meanwhile, in other news, most of the British population is now living hand-to-mouth, or something very close to it:

    Most Lloyds Bank customers have less than £500 of savings in their accounts, its chief executive said.

    The head of the UK's biggest high street bank told the BBC: "80% of individuals and UK customers and families have less than £500 pounds worth of savings in their current account and their savings account."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62057301

    Frankly, the more I think about this, the more astonishing it becomes. The customer base of Lloyds must be broadly representative of the general population. I might've guessed that about a third of us had nothing or next to nothing in the bank, but four-fifths?!?! Anybody in this position who finds themselves out of a job, or with unexpected bills to settle, is immediately going to have to resort to debt - if they've not already maxed out their capacity to do so. Those of working age who end up unemployed, or having to take a new job with a substantial cut in income, will be staring almost immediately down the barrel of heat or eat dilemmas or being slung out onto the street.

    Essentially, a finding like this implies that most of the country - especially all those still paying rent or a mortgage - is now part of the precariat. Any significant spike in unemployment and a lot of these people will be sunk.

    driving around the M60 not so long ago I was struck by the sheer number of costly cars.... BMWs, VWs other top spec brands.... not sure how it sits with the above.
    So many "costly" cars are on cheap PCP deals issued when manufacturers could actually build cars and needed to hit a sales target.
    It has been a not yet enacted project of mine to go around taking photos of thoroughly normal perhaps council two-up two-downs with brand spanking new Range Rover Velars parked in front of them.
    I noted that tendency in some rougher areas where I live. A south African girl I knew said youd see a similar thing in townships.
    On that savings point. How fo Lloyds know what their customers hold in accounts with other banks? It's not as if the high street banks are usually particularly great for interest rates.

    But even so, you'd want to have a month or two in the savings account next to your current account, for immediate transfer as needed.
    I genuinely have no idea what a good amount of savings would be to have as a contingency. I've always been fortunate I can err on the side of caution.
    Quite. A logical minimum for an *immediate access* account adjacent to the current account is one months' income - in case there is a problem with your pay bank transfer, let alone worse. But financial advice columns seem to for 3-6 months which seems sensible, with anything above in possibly time limited accounts with other banks etc (even if they can be withdrawn early, it's penalised, hassle and slower). Either way, £500 won't cut it.
    Yes, you want 3-6 months’ expenses held in cash or very close to cash. Think what happens if your employer goes bust on the last day of the month - which is usually when they do - and you’re out of work and not been paid.

    It’s actually the middle classes who are most affected by this. People with large mortgages and expensive commitments such as school fees or car loans, who live month-to-month in the current account, even if they are paying into a pension for the long term.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    geoffw said:

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking - Lord Quince resigns

    He's no longer a membrillo of the government?

    He’s peeled off.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Carnyx said:

    Has nobody complimented Cyclefree on her header?

    I daresay it's entirely typical of the HoC that the MPs* are hogging all the limelight. Even though it's as a direct result of their sins. I know the Prodigal Son got a lot more attention than his goody twoshoes brother. But at least he repented and saw the light.

    Edit: And, to some extent, the HoL and Peers.

    I hate to have to spell stuff like this out but did you not spot the implicit compliment in my "Poop poop" comment ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    ..


  • Can we have @MoonRabbit unbanned please @MikeSmithson @PBModerator @TSE
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913

    Nadhim is a groper himself, he likes to grope women at parties allegedly

    Adding the word allegedly won't stop OGH being in trouble, @PBModerator has a firm rule against making allegations like that against people unless cited by legitimate news sources.
    Yes the FT reported as much. Alleged groper
    Just being an 'alleged' groper is quite a compliment in today's Tory Party
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Andrew Murrison, who's just resigned as trade envoy to Morocco, says a third cabinet resignation is coming later today.
    https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/20258262.wiltshire-mp-reveals-third-cabinet-resignation-come-tonight/?ref=rss

    Which didn't happen - see the time stamp.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    Actually, Thankyou to @Heathener for making me look back over the last 3 months. What an incredible, magical experience. Three continents and maybe eight countries. An absolute privilege. I will never forget the spring and summer of 2022 - when I just kept travelling

    I recommend it to anyone. You need to do it alone, tho. And that can be tough at times
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    OllyT said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Morning,

    The Pm fights on, after two bombshell resignations.

    No10 sources say Sajid Javid warned the PM he would quit but Rishi Sunak didn’t

    And that the PM feels “liberated” to go for growth - as well tax cuts - with a chancellor “who is an entrepreneur not a banker”.

    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1544560234781462529


    Unless the '22 get their act together we are so screwed

    Yep. Boris is about to apply the same approach to his personal spending to the British economy. The Daily Express may love it but Boris is someone who is on the verge of bankruptcy and who borrows from one credit card to 'pay off' another.

    He won't care as long as it keeps him in office for a bit longer.
    There is a very real danger that Johnson does irreparable damage to the nation's finances in the cause of his own self-preservation and then buggers off to America or somewhere when it is over leaving us to pick up the pieces. He is surely going to go down as the worst PM in modern history by a country mile.

    With the exception of HUFYD every Tory leaning poster on PB has turned against Johnson yet the Cabinet and huge sections of the membership still don't get it. It is genuinely baffling. I kinda see why why the cabinet stick with him because most of them are no-marks who would never be seen again without Johnson's patronage but are the membership really that dim and out of touch? (Perhaps I have just answered my own question)
    A more credible hypothesis is that the cabinet are very well aware what a utter sh*tstorm of bad news is coming down the line this year, and are/were hoping to leave the liar king around for a while longer, to take the blame for it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    OllyT said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Morning,

    The Pm fights on, after two bombshell resignations.

    No10 sources say Sajid Javid warned the PM he would quit but Rishi Sunak didn’t

    And that the PM feels “liberated” to go for growth - as well tax cuts - with a chancellor “who is an entrepreneur not a banker”.

    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1544560234781462529


    Unless the '22 get their act together we are so screwed

    Yep. Boris is about to apply the same approach to his personal spending to the British economy. The Daily Express may love it but Boris is someone who is on the verge of bankruptcy and who borrows from one credit card to 'pay off' another.

    He won't care as long as it keeps him in office for a bit longer.
    There is a very real danger that Johnson does irreparable damage to the nation's finances in the cause of his own self-preservation and then buggers off to America or somewhere when it is over leaving us to pick up the pieces. He is surely going to go down as the worst PM in modern history by a country mile.

    With the exception of HUFYD every Tory leaning poster on PB has turned against Johnson yet the Cabinet and huge sections of the membership still don't get it. It is genuinely baffling. I kinda see why why the cabinet stick with him because most of them are no-marks who would never be seen again without Johnson's patronage but are the membership really that dim and out of touch? (Perhaps I have just answered my own question)
    The membership want hard Brexit and tax cuts, if Boris and Zahawi deliver they may well get behind him again
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    For those with long memories, it's pretty clear that the job Johnson has handed to the already magnificently unimpressive Zahawi is to engineer a Barber boom (look it up, young people) but without the downsides. It is not possible.

    Neither will be in office long enough to engineer anything.

    Johnson wont resign but I think the 1922 will end this next week.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    geoffw said:

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking - Lord Quince resigns

    He's no longer a membrillo of the government?

    He’s peeled off.
    ok, peels! *

    * bowling terminology.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
  • Andrew Murrison, who's just resigned as trade envoy to Morocco, says a third cabinet resignation is coming later today.
    https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/20258262.wiltshire-mp-reveals-third-cabinet-resignation-come-tonight/?ref=rss

    Which didn't happen - see the time stamp.
    Ah yes. Not helpful for the Wiltshire Times to tweet it this morning!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    Actually, Thankyou to @Heathener for making me look back over the last 3 months. What an incredible, magical experience. Three continents and maybe eight countries. An absolute privilege. I will never forget the spring and summer of 2022 - when I just kept travelling

    I recommend it to anyone. You need to do it alone, tho. And that can be tough at times

    Nevertheless it's after 10 am there, and you should be out seeing or doing something...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    Mordaunt back as fav for next CP leader:

    Mordaunt 5.8
    Sunak 6.2
    Truss 10
    Zahawi 10
    Wallace 10.5
    Hunt 13.5
    Javid 14
  • HYUFD said:
    Oh fuck off, where's my student debt cut?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited July 2022

    Heathener said:

    Carnyx said:

    Has nobody complimented Cyclefree on her header?

    No, I think most of us thought it was a bit out of place today tbh.
    No, I liked the header and if you think about the most recent holes Boris has been in, the header is to the point. But it is tiresome if people just write "nice header" so I don't. Perhaps there should be a like button on headers as there is on btl posts. @rcs1000 is this possible?
    On Daily Kos the have a comment at the top that just says "tip jar" that's apparently used for that kind of purpose. Maybe the first person to post a comment could post "tip jar" or "nice header" or something instead of "first" and then people can click like if they want to show their appreciation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, Thankyou to @Heathener for making me look back over the last 3 months. What an incredible, magical experience. Three continents and maybe eight countries. An absolute privilege. I will never forget the spring and summer of 2022 - when I just kept travelling

    I recommend it to anyone. You need to do it alone, tho. And that can be tough at times

    Nevertheless it's after 10 am there, and you should be out seeing or doing something...
    After 3 months of constant wonderful but sometimes pretty challenging solo travel, I think I know when I need to be “doing something”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Stocky said:

    Mordaunt back as fav for next CP leader:

    Mordaunt 5.8
    Sunak 6.2
    Truss 10
    Zahawi 10
    Wallace 10.5
    Hunt 13.5
    Javid 14

    Wallace should be higher, Sunak lower but otherwise about right
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Has Mordaunt said much over the last day . Wouldn’t it be better for her to get out of the cabinet now.
This discussion has been closed.