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The Daily Star sums it up perfectly – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314
    I seem to recall that Osborne and Gove went to the opera together?
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    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,109

    I seem to recall that Osborne and Gove went to the opera together?
    Gove is such a tart. Lol. Im still convinced hes flouncing tomorrow.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Doctor Pagel has some more fun advice for us in the Guardian


    Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and member of the Independent Sage group of experts

    “I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops. I now also wear one during face-to-face meetings at work and would if I was going to the cinema, theatre, etc. However, I have chosen to restrict my social activities or meet outside wherever possible during these weeks of very high levels of infection. Many will not be able to restrict their contacts, so a well-fitting, high-quality mask (FFP2/FFP3) is even more important to try to reduce their chance of catching Covid or of spreading it.”

    It's a sort of darwinism, isn't it. These people are just going to stop interacting with other people, and therefore stop breeding.
    I remember reading this in lockdown, and for some of the most intense it seemed on the nose.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Sun
    I cannot imagine a world without touch. To touch another human being, whether that's a comforting arm around the shoulder of an elderly relative, a hug with a friend you haven't seen in months, a passionate kiss that reignites an old flame, or even the old man on man, testosterone fuelled sparring in the ring that gets all the anger and aggression out. And you shake hands after.

    Being deprived of all of the above almost sent me insane during lockdown. I'm now of the opinion that, come what may, I'll take my chances.
    There's a group of people I call COVID Worriers. I don't mean those who are concerned about catching COVID-19. I'm on day 11 after getting COVID and it's no fun! I mean those who think that any discussion of COVID-19, any acknowledgement that we're in a new wave, any steps taken to avoid infection, are the top of a slippery slope leading inevitably to a complete lockdown.

    Someone making a personal choice to wear a mask on the Tube during a period of high infections is treated as if they are seeking to enslave us. This is such nonsense. Why are some here so scared of others' choices?
    I was referring to kle4's mention of a book about human beings who despise / avoid all physical contact. That was certainly how it felt during 2020, and isn't something I'd care to revisit.

    Why am I scared? Because lockdown damn nearly broke me. I've been prescribed benzos/beta blockers on and off ever since, and I'm still not completely "right". I'm not scared of other people's choices. I'm scared of being sent back into the hell that lockdown was and seeing my mind turn to mush again. So, thanks.
    I'm sorry you suffered during lockdown. I certainly didn't enjoy it either. I've published on the mental health effects of the pandemic. So, let me try and reassure you. We're not going back into lockdown. No-one is suggesting we go back into lockdown.

    The best way to ward off any future risk of lockdown is to introduce sensible public health measures, like good vaccination schemes, improved air filtration and better pandemic preparedness.

    I note that Japan avoided having any national lockdowns. That was, in part, because of high levels of mask wearing on public transport. If you see someone wearing a mask this week, applaud them. They're on your side.
    God help us if you are “publishing on covid” (which I seriously doubt)

    Japan avoided lockdown by entirely closing itself off from the world. They had a national quarantine rather than a lockdown. Only recently has anyone been allowed to visit the country, and even now you can only do it in tightly organised tour groups. Two and a half years later
    That's mainly politics not public health. Japanese people and permanent residents can come and go as they like, and it's never been like Taiwan was at one point where the virus wasn't circulating in the country. We had alpha direct from Wuhan, Beta from foreign tourists and delayed omega by a week or something until the quarantine was broken by returning Japanese and US military.

    To the extent that there's a coherent thought behind not letting foreign tourists in, it's that they can't be relied on to do the things most Japan residents are doing like wearing masks.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314
    Did someone once write a play about about this?

    PM: You could be CoE

    Zahawi: Really? What now, today? Are you sure. I thought I might have to wait a while longer.

    PM: yes. But you have to sell your soul. Total loyalty to me.

    Zahawi: It's sold. What time do I get the car to the treasury?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314
    Have any of us been more depressed about public life in years?

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    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,963

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Doctor Pagel has some more fun advice for us in the Guardian


    Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and member of the Independent Sage group of experts

    “I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops. I now also wear one during face-to-face meetings at work and would if I was going to the cinema, theatre, etc. However, I have chosen to restrict my social activities or meet outside wherever possible during these weeks of very high levels of infection. Many will not be able to restrict their contacts, so a well-fitting, high-quality mask (FFP2/FFP3) is even more important to try to reduce their chance of catching Covid or of spreading it.”

    It's a sort of darwinism, isn't it. These people are just going to stop interacting with other people, and therefore stop breeding.
    I remember reading this in lockdown, and for some of the most intense it seemed on the nose.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Sun
    I cannot imagine a world without touch. To touch another human being, whether that's a comforting arm around the shoulder of an elderly relative, a hug with a friend you haven't seen in months, a passionate kiss that reignites an old flame, or even the old man on man, testosterone fuelled sparring in the ring that gets all the anger and aggression out. And you shake hands after.

    Being deprived of all of the above almost sent me insane during lockdown. I'm now of the opinion that, come what may, I'll take my chances.
    There's a group of people I call COVID Worriers. I don't mean those who are concerned about catching COVID-19. I'm on day 11 after getting COVID and it's no fun! I mean those who think that any discussion of COVID-19, any acknowledgement that we're in a new wave, any steps taken to avoid infection, are the top of a slippery slope leading inevitably to a complete lockdown.

    Someone making a personal choice to wear a mask on the Tube during a period of high infections is treated as if they are seeking to enslave us. This is such nonsense. Why are some here so scared of others' choices?
    I was referring to kle4's mention of a book about human beings who despise / avoid all physical contact. That was certainly how it felt during 2020, and isn't something I'd care to revisit.

    Why am I scared? Because lockdown damn nearly broke me. I've been prescribed benzos/beta blockers on and off ever since, and I'm still not completely "right". I'm not scared of other people's choices. I'm scared of being sent back into the hell that lockdown was and seeing my mind turn to mush again. So, thanks.
    I'm sorry you suffered during lockdown. I certainly didn't enjoy it either. I've published on the mental health effects of the pandemic. So, let me try and reassure you. We're not going back into lockdown. No-one is suggesting we go back into lockdown.

    The best way to ward off any future risk of lockdown is to introduce sensible public health measures, like good vaccination schemes, improved air filtration and better pandemic preparedness.

    I note that Japan avoided having any national lockdowns. That was, in part, because of high levels of mask wearing on public transport. If you see someone wearing a mask this week, applaud them. They're on your side.
    It's funny, it doesn't feel like they're on my side.

    It feels more like they're on the side of a cult obsessed with death statistics and restricting freedom as much as possible for a largely healthy cohort of people for whom it should all be a minor inconvenience.

    But hey-ho, I guess being in a cult works wonders for the people in the cult.
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,788
    edited July 2022
    Like Teresa May, BJ would probably earn millions on the comedy after dinner circuit. Yet he clings on, because he's so vain, he wants to be PM longer than Cameron.

    I can only guess he's hoping that something will come up and save him. Starmer getting a FPN maybe, but London Bridge Falling Down might give him a few months. Other than that, I don't know. Aliens being announced as real. Russia nuking Kyiv. TSE becoming a Pineapple on Pizza Specialist?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,907
    Does anyone think Boris is going to go without losing a confidence vote?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314
    I predict there will be a brief tomorrow from "sources" that of course Sunak and Javid could leave as they are very rich bankers who do not need ministerial salary,

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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think Boris is going to go without losing a confidence vote?

    Not me.

    Even after losing that I think the Queen - god bless her - will have to tell him it is over.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314
    CatMan said:

    Like Teresa May, BJ would probably earn millions on the comedy after dinner circuit. Yet he clings on, because he's so vain, he wants to be PM longer than Cameron.

    I can only guess he's hoping that something will come up and save him. Starmer getting a FPN maybe, but London Bridge Falling Down would probably give him a few months. Other than that, I don't know. Aliens being announced as real maybe. Russia nuking Kyiv. TSE becoming a Pineapple on Pizza Specialist.

    Yes. He is - as ever - waiting for something to turn up.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,894
    edited July 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think Boris is going to go without losing a confidence vote?

    No, and there will be at least a couple more dead cats before this is over methinks.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,894
    edited July 2022
    CatMan said:

    Like Teresa May, BJ would probably earn millions on the comedy after dinner circuit. Yet he clings on, because he's so vain, he wants to be PM longer than Cameron.

    You mean people actually PAY to be in Theresa May's company? More money than sense...
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    It does no favour to the Boris Must Go cause to have embittered old Remoaner Queens like Rifkind and Heseltine denouncing Boris. It just makes normal people think “ugh, this is all about Remainer revenge for Brexit”

    Get these ancient old twats off the telly. Thanks

    Remainers will want to hitch Brexit as closely as possible to Boris. Let the sinking ship drag Brexit down with him.

    So, not great seeing these old remoaner grandees if you’re a Brexiteer Tory who wants shot of Boris, but excellent news if you’re a remainer that first and foremost wants shot of Brexit.
    It's not really excellent news. The silly farts just remind people why they voted to leave.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,788
    GIN1138 said:

    CatMan said:

    Like Teresa May, BJ would probably earn millions on the comedy after dinner circuit. Yet he clings on, because he's so vain, he wants to be PM longer than Cameron.

    You mean people actually PAY to be in Theresa May's company? More money than sense...
    I know it's hard to believe, but yes:

    Former UK PM Theresa May earned £1.86 million in her 2 years since leaving Downing Street, figures show

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/former-uk-pm-theresa-may-085652000.html
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519
    That's not one I've heard of. Is it like The Barber of Seville?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,519

    @Steven_Swinford
    Boris Johnson was asked by an ally tonight if he was considering quitting

    He responded: “Fuck that”

    Allies claim Zahawi will be a better chancellor for Johnson: ‘We’ve ended up with a more suitable chancellor for growing the economy rather than balancing the books’


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544438495288205318

    I suppose it's asking the earth to get the Chancellor to have a stab at doing both?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,907
    edited July 2022
    The question is have the rebels genuinely increased their support from the number they had before or are they just bluffing? Difficult to say. It could be that everyone or almost everyone who came out against Johnson today was already part of the 148 before.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    I haven't seen much coverage here of the farmers' protests in the Netherlands but the situation looks quite serious. This evening they set fire to one of the main roads near Apeldoorn and they've been blocking roads and distribution centres. There are some reports of the police firing shots.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8O39L2sckk

    https://www.hartvannederland.nl/nieuws/politiek/liveblog-boerenprotest-dinsdag-5-juli
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314

    @Steven_Swinford
    Boris Johnson was asked by an ally tonight if he was considering quitting

    He responded: “Fuck that”

    Allies claim Zahawi will be a better chancellor for Johnson: ‘We’ve ended up with a more suitable chancellor for growing the economy rather than balancing the books’


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544438495288205318

    I suppose it's asking the earth to get the Chancellor to have a stab at doing both?
    a) Zahawi will have like about three months tops to "grow the economy"

    b) The Treasury will work to capture their new man pronto.

    c) If by some miracle Z lasts for a year or two - he will be responsible for the greatest balance of payments/sterling crisis/IMF debt crisis since the 1970s.

  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,874
    edited July 2022

    @Steven_Swinford
    Boris Johnson was asked by an ally tonight if he was considering quitting

    He responded: “Fuck that”

    Allies claim Zahawi will be a better chancellor for Johnson: ‘We’ve ended up with a more suitable chancellor for growing the economy rather than balancing the books’


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544438495288205318

    I suppose it's asking the earth to get the Chancellor to have a stab at doing both?
    a) Zahawi will have like about three months tops to "grow the economy"

    b) The Treasury will work to capture their new man pronto.

    c) If by some miracle Z lasts for a year or two - he will be responsible for the greatest balance of payments/sterling crisis/IMF debt crisis since the 1970s.

    It is not possible to “grow the economy” in three months.

    However, I believe there is some kind of “relaunch” scheduled next week where Boris and Rishi - now Zahawi - are supposed to outline some new economic strategy.

    Boris has found someone who will announce short-term tax cuts (perhaps a VAT cut on energy for example) and hopes the inevitable welcome from the right wing press snowballs into a turnaround.

    How to pay for it will not likely be Boris’s or Zahawi’s problem.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,322

    @Steven_Swinford
    Boris Johnson was asked by an ally tonight if he was considering quitting

    He responded: “Fuck that”

    Allies claim Zahawi will be a better chancellor for Johnson: ‘We’ve ended up with a more suitable chancellor for growing the economy rather than balancing the books’


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544438495288205318

    I suppose it's asking the earth to get the Chancellor to have a stab at doing both?
    a) Zahawi will have like about three months tops to "grow the economy"

    b) The Treasury will work to capture their new man pronto.

    c) If by some miracle Z lasts for a year or two - he will be responsible for the greatest balance of payments/sterling crisis/IMF debt crisis since the 1970s.

    Sounds like we're in for a massive dose of Laffer Curve/Reaganomics. Boris will see it as one last throw of the dice, but it could end up being spectacularly bad.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,322

    @Steven_Swinford
    Boris Johnson was asked by an ally tonight if he was considering quitting

    He responded: “Fuck that”

    Allies claim Zahawi will be a better chancellor for Johnson: ‘We’ve ended up with a more suitable chancellor for growing the economy rather than balancing the books’


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544438495288205318

    I suppose it's asking the earth to get the Chancellor to have a stab at doing both?
    a) Zahawi will have like about three months tops to "grow the economy"

    b) The Treasury will work to capture their new man pronto.

    c) If by some miracle Z lasts for a year or two - he will be responsible for the greatest balance of payments/sterling crisis/IMF debt crisis since the 1970s.

    It is not possible to “grow the economy” in three months.

    However, I believe there is some kind of “relaunch” scheduled next week where Boris and Rishi - now Zahawi - are supposed to outline some new economic strategy.

    Boris has found someone who will announce short-term tax cuts (perhaps a VAT cut on energy for example) and hopes the inevitable welcome from the right wing press snowballs into a turnaround.

    How to pay for it will not likely be Boris’s or Zahawi’s problem.
    Yes, I'm expecting eye-watering tax cuts. That probably Boris's only remaining card, and he's going to play it big.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,907
    edited July 2022

    @Steven_Swinford
    Boris Johnson was asked by an ally tonight if he was considering quitting

    He responded: “Fuck that”

    Allies claim Zahawi will be a better chancellor for Johnson: ‘We’ve ended up with a more suitable chancellor for growing the economy rather than balancing the books’


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544438495288205318

    Never Say Die. 😊
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,637
    edited July 2022

    The old political machines in the US almost always practiced what could now be called "critical ethnic theory"; they discriminated in favor of groups, especially Irish Catholics, saying that they had been badly treated in the past -- which was often true enough. As Chicago columnist Mike Royko summarized it, the first (and greatest) Mayor Daley was always a "quota man". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Royko

    True with caveat that past mistreatment was less a factor (though often useful as rhetorical persuasion) than contemporary voting strength.

    In Chicago back in the day, Mayor Daley the Elder and his minions knew the ethic, social & political complexion down to the precinct level. Better than the Census Bureau, in fact. No computers, just near-total door-to-door canvassing by precinct captains, who typically also held city jobs of varying degree of pay & status largely depending upon your precinct's voting performance. With the Mayor being just about the last guy in the Windy City you could hope to BS on THAT score.

    Incidentally, Mayor Daley was old-school enough to actually expect his precinct captains to not only deliver the vote, but to do their city jobs as well. Screw up with either, you'd get canned from both. As there was always an eager band of eager young beavers, aging brothers-in-law and other assorted hopefuls willing & perhaps able to take your place.

    Getting back to CRT, under the Daley machine, the critical race was definitely the Irish. Numbers of votes was the coin of the realm, but even as their numbers dropped (as more moved to the burbs) the Irish were first among equals, though the machine was actually founded by a Czech, Anton Cermak. Such was Hibernian psycho-politico dominance (pretty useful coinage!) that one notable German American politico back then was know far & wide as "Paddy" Bauler. And a Polish American congressman spelled his name O'Konski.

    Barack Obama had NOT yet made it to town, and nobody knew that HE was part-Irish!

    Addendum - worth noting that among the "critical ethnics" of Mayor Daley's theory were included Black & Latino Americans, in the wards, neighborhoods and precincts where they predominated. Generally with a lag as the old-line Irish, Italian and Jewish leadership hung on, but as a rule the Mayor & his top alderman-henchmen did NOT try to imitate King Cnut in holding back the rising tide.
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,378

    @Steven_Swinford
    Boris Johnson was asked by an ally tonight if he was considering quitting

    He responded: “Fuck that”

    Allies claim Zahawi will be a better chancellor for Johnson: ‘We’ve ended up with a more suitable chancellor for growing the economy rather than balancing the books’


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544438495288205318

    I suppose it's asking the earth to get the Chancellor to have a stab at doing both?
    a) Zahawi will have like about three months tops to "grow the economy"

    b) The Treasury will work to capture their new man pronto.

    c) If by some miracle Z lasts for a year or two - he will be responsible for the greatest balance of payments/sterling crisis/IMF debt crisis since the 1970s.

    It is not possible to “grow the economy” in three months.

    However, I believe there is some kind of “relaunch” scheduled next week where Boris and Rishi - now Zahawi - are supposed to outline some new economic strategy.

    Boris has found someone who will announce short-term tax cuts (perhaps a VAT cut on energy for example) and hopes the inevitable welcome from the right wing press snowballs into a turnaround.

    How to pay for it will not likely be Boris’s or Zahawi’s problem.
    For all the spin, Zahawi will face the same problems Sunak did. Namely global headwinds and in the immediate term, Brexit and long-term productivity struggles. The latter requires investment that will struggle to give without abandoning sound money. Brexit provides a medium-term drag and the politics of it mean the easiest ways of stopping that are off the table. Global headwinds can't be blamed on the government but people do and are why only healthy governments survive them.

    The fundamental problem for the Tories is that Boris' lies may be the only way they can reconcile tough decisions that will deeply upset their voters or look bonkers.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,314

    @Steven_Swinford
    Boris Johnson was asked by an ally tonight if he was considering quitting

    He responded: “Fuck that”

    Allies claim Zahawi will be a better chancellor for Johnson: ‘We’ve ended up with a more suitable chancellor for growing the economy rather than balancing the books’


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544438495288205318

    I suppose it's asking the earth to get the Chancellor to have a stab at doing both?
    a) Zahawi will have like about three months tops to "grow the economy"

    b) The Treasury will work to capture their new man pronto.

    c) If by some miracle Z lasts for a year or two - he will be responsible for the greatest balance of payments/sterling crisis/IMF debt crisis since the 1970s.

    It is not possible to “grow the economy” in three months.

    However, I believe there is some kind of “relaunch” scheduled next week where Boris and Rishi - now Zahawi - are supposed to outline some new economic strategy.

    Boris has found someone who will announce short-term tax cuts (perhaps a VAT cut on energy for example) and hopes the inevitable welcome from the right wing press snowballs into a turnaround.

    How to pay for it will not likely be Boris’s or Zahawi’s problem.
    Yes, I'm expecting eye-watering tax cuts. That probably Boris's only remaining card, and he's going to play it big.
    When I said "Zahawi will have like about three months tops to "grow the economy", I meant that is how long before the 1922 end this nightmare not how long he would technically have tp actaully do something.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,637

    That's not one I've heard of. Is it like The Barber of Seville?
    More like the Pincher of Tamworth.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,907
    edited July 2022
    How the Guardian sees the new appointments.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk
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    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    Well BJ made it past midnight, which looked tricky at one point, when the do the men in grey suits (and white coats) from the '22 have a chat with him? It'll be interesting to see how the '22 vote pans out next week, unless BJ has a master hand I suspect it will be pretty ruthless (though there is a hardcore of BJ backers.... which could make for interesting times).
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513

    I seem to recall that Osborne and Gove went to the opera together?
    The dramadoc Brexit had a chance meeting of Boris and Gove at the opera.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513
    The real news is the BBC is to outsource Antiques Roadshow.

    Treat the Empire with extreme care, BBC tells Antiques Roadshow hosts
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/05/bbc-tells-antiques-roadshow-producers-careful-objects-linked/ (£££)
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,408
    I thought the rats were supposed to be first off the ship, not left in charge?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513
    UK to follow EU and adopt mandatory speed limiters in cars
    https://www.gbnews.uk/news/uk-to-follow-eu-and-adopt-mandatory-speed-limiters-in-cars/331856

    Brexit — take back control (or recognise commercial reality).
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,513
    New thread.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,994
    edited July 2022
    Deleted
This discussion has been closed.