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The Daily Star sums it up perfectly – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Like 'em or loathe 'em you've got to give it to the Tories. No other party does a better shambles.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is it really true that Sir Beer K*rm* has indeed received a FPN, is appealing against it, and has put an injunction on anyone that reports it??

    That’s what Twitter is saying quite convincingly

    If so - if it is true - what a sinister and slippery thing to do

    It was supported by a GBNews reporter but it seems unlikely as aside from him nobody 'valid' is claiming it
    I’ve seen it in a couple of places. One of them quite reliable. But yes it could easily be bullshit

    If true, tho, and if this emerges, it won’t be good for Korma
    Karma for Korma.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    Leon said:

    Doctor Pagel has some more fun advice for us in the Guardian


    Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and member of the Independent Sage group of experts

    “I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops. I now also wear one during face-to-face meetings at work and would if I was going to the cinema, theatre, etc. However, I have chosen to restrict my social activities or meet outside wherever possible during these weeks of very high levels of infection. Many will not be able to restrict their contacts, so a well-fitting, high-quality mask (FFP2/FFP3) is even more important to try to reduce their chance of catching Covid or of spreading it.”

    Do you have a list of people that most make you angry and follow them on Twitter? Whenever you feel that you are becoming a little too easy going and on the path to wokedom you verbally flagellate yourself with the opinions of Christina Pagel, or some anti-British Irishman from County Wicklow
    Ironically, Pagel caught covid a few months ago iirc.
  • Mail: Can even Boris the Greased Piglet wriggle out of this?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    PMQ's.
    Liaison Committee.
    Tomorrow.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Leon said:

    Doctor Pagel has some more fun advice for us in the Guardian


    Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and member of the Independent Sage group of experts

    “I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops. I now also wear one during face-to-face meetings at work and would if I was going to the cinema, theatre, etc. However, I have chosen to restrict my social activities or meet outside wherever possible during these weeks of very high levels of infection. Many will not be able to restrict their contacts, so a well-fitting, high-quality mask (FFP2/FFP3) is even more important to try to reduce their chance of catching Covid or of spreading it.”

    If only she would restrict her social media activities, not just her social activities.
  • Sorry are we listening to ransomers on Twitter now. A paper would have leaked if Starmer had got a FPN
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A rare positive take. People may disagree what merit is being looked for here - for both Sunak and Zahawi it was to be a loyal patsy after the previous guy quit - but it is probably true that Boris doesn't give a crap about the ethnicity of those he appoints, which is a good thing.

    Not the day’s biggest news, but having the Conservatives appoint a third ethnic minority chancellor in a row - all not just on merit but as the obvious candidate - says very good things about this country.

    https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1544426385846018051?cxt=HHwWhoC94a_n8-4qAAAA

    But Zahawi wasn't obvious at all.
    Not least because, as I pointed out above, he is a chemical engineer who founded a polling company.
    He has no noticeable economic knowledge or experience. Less than me in fact.
    Before becoming MPs:

    Ken Clarke read Law and then went straight into politics
    Gordon Brown was a Lecturer in Politics and then a Journalist
    Alistair Darling was a Solicitor
    George Osborne was a Journalist with a degree in History

    Before Hammond, the last CoE to have any background in economics or finance was Norman Lamont in 1993.
    We dodged a bullet with Truss, then ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,045
    pigeon said:

    Interesting to see whether Zahawi has an opportunity to cut corporation tax.

    My understanding is that the Treasury discovered that firms merely pocketed the tax cuts and paid it out in dividends - often to overseas owners - rather than making capital investments in their own businesses.

    Hence it was hiked, and generous write-offs provided for capital expenditures instead.

    OMG.

    Who gives a feck.

    He will be gone by the end of summer and no one will give a otter's arse what the hell he does in next six weeks.

    This regime is ending.
    It's only ending any time soon if the Tory leadership rules are changed, a second confidence vote is then called, and Johnson loses said vote. It's very far from certain that things will come to that. It would require the Tory rebels to feel very confident that they had the numbers to win this time, and for all those MPs to then go through with doing the deed.

    As I suggested in the previous thread, the Tory Parliamentary party may very well be too divided, and therefore too weak, confused and frightened, to commit. Because failing to dispatch Johnson for a second time would almost certainly mean that they were stuck with him until the next election - something that everyone outside of the loyalist faction would sincerely wish to avoid.
    The rules are likely to change very soon and only 33 more names are needed to axe Johnson

    It is clear tonight those numbers are there
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    dixiedean said:

    Well.
    10:50pm is a totally useless time to resign as a total non-entity.

    Clearly he is a closet remainer operating on European time, and thought it was 10 to midnight, and thus would be more dramatic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,927
    geoffw said:

    Like 'em or loathe 'em you've got to give it to the Tories. No other party does a better shambles.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is it really true that Sir Beer K*rm* has indeed received a FPN, is appealing against it, and has put an injunction on anyone that reports it??

    That’s what Twitter is saying quite convincingly

    If so - if it is true - what a sinister and slippery thing to do

    It was supported by a GBNews reporter but it seems unlikely as aside from him nobody 'valid' is claiming it
    I’ve seen it in a couple of places. One of them quite reliable. But yes it could easily be bullshit

    If true, tho, and if this emerges, it won’t be good for Korma
    Karma for Korma.

    Corbyn lost 13 Shadow Cabinet Ministers in June 2016, Johnson has only lost 3 Cabinet Ministers so far
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    We had this earlier.

    As far as I understand it, it is impossible for Starmer to appeal a FPN and get an injunction

    You do not have to accept a FPN. You say no, and then see if they decide to take it further.
    I do not think this has happened.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A rare positive take. People may disagree what merit is being looked for here - for both Sunak and Zahawi it was to be a loyal patsy after the previous guy quit - but it is probably true that Boris doesn't give a crap about the ethnicity of those he appoints, which is a good thing.

    Not the day’s biggest news, but having the Conservatives appoint a third ethnic minority chancellor in a row - all not just on merit but as the obvious candidate - says very good things about this country.

    https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1544426385846018051?cxt=HHwWhoC94a_n8-4qAAAA

    But Zahawi wasn't obvious at all.
    Not least because, as I pointed out above, he is a chemical engineer who founded a polling company.
    He has no noticeable economic knowledge or experience. Less than me in fact.
    Before becoming MPs:

    Ken Clarke read Law and then went straight into politics
    Gordon Brown was a Lecturer in Politics and then a Journalist
    Alistair Darling was a Solicitor
    George Osborne was a Journalist with a degree in History

    Before Hammond, the last CoE to have any background in economics or finance was Norman Lamont in 1993.
    Well yes.
    And isn't that all part of the problem?
    At least Truss has summat relevant on her CV?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    dixiedean said:

    PMQ's.
    Liaison Committee.
    Tomorrow.

    Oddly, I can see him putting in oddly strong performances.

    He's completely undercut, things are unravelling, so like England Crickets this summer he will just go on the offensive. He'll swing wildly, missing half the time and treading on his own stumps, but you won't be able to pin him down.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Leon said:

    Doctor Pagel has some more fun advice for us in the Guardian


    Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and member of the Independent Sage group of experts

    “I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops. I now also wear one during face-to-face meetings at work and would if I was going to the cinema, theatre, etc. However, I have chosen to restrict my social activities or meet outside wherever possible during these weeks of very high levels of infection. Many will not be able to restrict their contacts, so a well-fitting, high-quality mask (FFP2/FFP3) is even more important to try to reduce their chance of catching Covid or of spreading it.”

    Do you have a list of people that most make you angry and follow them on Twitter? Whenever you feel that you are becoming a little too easy going and on the path to wokedom you verbally flagellate yourself with the opinions of Christina Pagel, or some anti-British Irishman from County Wicklow
    [Gerry Adams voice] Covid hasn't gone away, you know!
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A rare positive take. People may disagree what merit is being looked for here - for both Sunak and Zahawi it was to be a loyal patsy after the previous guy quit - but it is probably true that Boris doesn't give a crap about the ethnicity of those he appoints, which is a good thing.

    Not the day’s biggest news, but having the Conservatives appoint a third ethnic minority chancellor in a row - all not just on merit but as the obvious candidate - says very good things about this country.

    https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1544426385846018051?cxt=HHwWhoC94a_n8-4qAAAA

    But Zahawi wasn't obvious at all.
    Not least because, as I pointed out above, he is a chemical engineer who founded a polling company.
    He has no noticeable economic knowledge or experience. Less than me in fact.
    Before becoming MPs:

    Ken Clarke read Law and then went straight into politics
    Gordon Brown was a Lecturer in Politics and then a Journalist
    Alistair Darling was a Solicitor
    George Osborne was a Journalist with a degree in History

    Before Hammond, the last CoE to have any background in economics or finance was Norman Lamont in 1993.
    Made famous by Julian Clary, who in reference to Norman Lamont made a large number of people in middle England (including Norman Lamont) ask "what is fisting?"
  • We had this earlier.

    As far as I understand it, it is impossible for Starmer to appeal a FPN and get an injunction

    You do not have to accept a FPN. You say no, and then see if they decide to take it further.
    I do not think this has happened.
    @DougSeal said it was legally impossible to get an injunction
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,927
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    A rare positive take. People may disagree what merit is being looked for here - for both Sunak and Zahawi it was to be a loyal patsy after the previous guy quit - but it is probably true that Boris doesn't give a crap about the ethnicity of those he appoints, which is a good thing.

    Not the day’s biggest news, but having the Conservatives appoint a third ethnic minority chancellor in a row - all not just on merit but as the obvious candidate - says very good things about this country.

    https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1544426385846018051?cxt=HHwWhoC94a_n8-4qAAAA

    But Zahawi wasn't obvious at all.
    Not least because, as I pointed out above, he is a chemical engineer who founded a polling company.
    He has no noticeable economic knowledge or experience. Less than me in fact.
    Before becoming MPs:

    Ken Clarke read Law and then went straight into politics
    Gordon Brown was a Lecturer in Politics and then a Journalist
    Alistair Darling was a Solicitor
    George Osborne was a Journalist with a degree in History

    Before Hammond, the last CoE to have any background in economics or finance was Norman Lamont in 1993.
    Well yes.
    And isn't that all part of the problem?
    At least Truss has summat relevant on her CV?
    Of our last 2 chancellors, Sunak read economics and was ex Goldman Sachs, Javid read economics and politics and worked for Chase Manhattan Bank.

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Apparently the Solicitor General has just resigned
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    pigeon said:

    Interesting to see whether Zahawi has an opportunity to cut corporation tax.

    My understanding is that the Treasury discovered that firms merely pocketed the tax cuts and paid it out in dividends - often to overseas owners - rather than making capital investments in their own businesses.

    Hence it was hiked, and generous write-offs provided for capital expenditures instead.

    OMG.

    Who gives a feck.

    He will be gone by the end of summer and no one will give a otter's arse what the hell he does in next six weeks.

    This regime is ending.
    It's only ending any time soon if the Tory leadership rules are changed, a second confidence vote is then called, and Johnson loses said vote. It's very far from certain that things will come to that. It would require the Tory rebels to feel very confident that they had the numbers to win this time, and for all those MPs to then go through with doing the deed.

    As I suggested in the previous thread, the Tory Parliamentary party may very well be too divided, and therefore too weak, confused and frightened, to commit. Because failing to dispatch Johnson for a second time would almost certainly mean that they were stuck with him until the next election - something that everyone outside of the loyalist faction would sincerely wish to avoid.
    The rules are likely to change very soon and only 33 more names are needed to axe Johnson

    It is clear tonight those numbers are there
    Would be delighted were you to be proven right.

    OTOH all the MPs who voted to keep Johnson a month ago knew perfectly well what they were committing to. The Chris Pincher revelations do not change the fundamentals one iota. Are that many of them, therefore, willing to change their minds now? I'll believe it when I see it and not before.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Sorry are we listening to ransomers on Twitter now. A paper would have leaked if Starmer had got a FPN

    If any judge has granted a superinjunction about the matter, they should be barred from the legal profession for life.
  • So Johnson brought in Sunak but now doesn't want Sunak because he's too Tory. Ok
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    PMQ's.
    Liaison Committee.
    Tomorrow.

    Oddly, I can see him putting in oddly strong performances.

    He's completely undercut, things are unravelling, so like England Crickets this summer he will just go on the offensive. He'll swing wildly, missing half the time and treading on his own stumps, but you won't be able to pin him down.
    Starmer will go easy.

    He knows that a wounded lying corrupt useless clown is a vote winner for Lab
  • Pulpstar said:

    Sorry are we listening to ransomers on Twitter now. A paper would have leaked if Starmer had got a FPN

    If any judge has granted a superinjunction about the matter, they should be barred from the legal profession for life.
    If I am wrong, Starmer should resign on that basis alone.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300
    Includes resignation letter.

    Twitter
    Alex Chalk@AlexChalkChelt·15m
    With great sadness I am resigning as Solicitor General. I won’t be doing media interviews.

    https://twitter.com/AlexChalkChelt/status/1544437737771655169
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Leon said:

    Doctor Pagel has some more fun advice for us in the Guardian


    Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and member of the Independent Sage group of experts

    “I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops. I now also wear one during face-to-face meetings at work and would if I was going to the cinema, theatre, etc. However, I have chosen to restrict my social activities or meet outside wherever possible during these weeks of very high levels of infection. Many will not be able to restrict their contacts, so a well-fitting, high-quality mask (FFP2/FFP3) is even more important to try to reduce their chance of catching Covid or of spreading it.”

    Do you have a list of people that most make you angry and follow them on Twitter? Whenever you feel that you are becoming a little too easy going and on the path to wokedom you verbally flagellate yourself with the opinions of Christina Pagel, or some anti-British Irishman from County Wicklow
    [Gerry Adams voice] Covid hasn't gone away, you know!
    Was it really Gerry Adams, or was he voiced by an actor?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The number of Britons who want Boris Johnson to resign has reached a new high, at 69%.

    The majority of 2019 Conservative voters (54%) also want to see the PM go, the first time this has been higher than the number who want him to stay (33%)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/07/05/b572b/1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1544423365712252928 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1544425921435901952/photo/1

    What about current Tory voters and Tory members
    They don't matter, they're already voting Tory anyway and don't need to be won back.

    What matters most is the plethora people who've stopped backing the Tories, all for their own varied reasons. Every "PB Tory" but you it seems, which really ought to set alarm bells going.
    They do matter, Tory members will decide the next Tory leader if Boris goes. There is also little evidence any alternative leader would do much better v Starmer than Boris is.

    You are no PB Tory, you voted Labour in 2001 and for Farage, you are a Tory leaning swing voter at most.

    You really are a moron. Now would be the perfect time not to support a political corpse. The fact that you think that supporting Johnson is the shibboleth for Conservatives is stupid beyond all reason. Personally I hope your party is utterly destroyed, since such destruction seems to be the only thing that would bring you all to your senses. Admittedly you may become supporters of a post Conservative Tory party, but as long as the crime scene off Whitehall is cleaned up, most of us, whether Tory or nor, will feel relief.
    31% to 34% are still voting Tory in most polls, even under Johnson and around a third of the public even tonight want him to stay.

    Yet 98% of PB now don't back the Tories and want Johnson out and you will scream and shout but Johnson loyalists are still about a a third of the country and cannot be ignored
    I see you are quite determined for me to award you the PB Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf Award (aka The Comical Ali Cup) once again for services to CCO Department of Spin. I shall also ask the Pope to consider you as a possible living saint; Saint HY Additional Patron Saint of Lost Causes (alongside St. Jude The Apostle)
    I would rather be the Saint of Lost Causes than the Vicar of Bray!
    But to be the former, you should still be a Remainer, instead of a Brayish conversion to whatevern the current Party wishes: we have always been at war with Europe, and all that stuff ...
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Doctor Pagel has some more fun advice for us in the Guardian


    Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and member of the Independent Sage group of experts

    “I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops. I now also wear one during face-to-face meetings at work and would if I was going to the cinema, theatre, etc. However, I have chosen to restrict my social activities or meet outside wherever possible during these weeks of very high levels of infection. Many will not be able to restrict their contacts, so a well-fitting, high-quality mask (FFP2/FFP3) is even more important to try to reduce their chance of catching Covid or of spreading it.”

    It's a sort of darwinism, isn't it. These people are just going to stop interacting with other people, and therefore stop breeding.
    I remember reading this in lockdown, and for some of the most intense it seemed on the nose.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Sun
    I cannot imagine a world without touch. To touch another human being, whether that's a comforting arm around the shoulder of an elderly relative, a hug with a friend you haven't seen in months, a passionate kiss that reignites an old flame, or even the old man on man, testosterone fuelled sparring in the ring that gets all the anger and aggression out. And you shake hands after.

    Being deprived of all of the above almost sent me insane during lockdown. I'm now of the opinion that, come what may, I'll take my chances.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Lord Finkelstein tells newsnight Johnson is a liar.

    No way around it

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    edited July 2022

    Leon said:

    Doctor Pagel has some more fun advice for us in the Guardian


    Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and member of the Independent Sage group of experts

    “I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops. I now also wear one during face-to-face meetings at work and would if I was going to the cinema, theatre, etc. However, I have chosen to restrict my social activities or meet outside wherever possible during these weeks of very high levels of infection. Many will not be able to restrict their contacts, so a well-fitting, high-quality mask (FFP2/FFP3) is even more important to try to reduce their chance of catching Covid or of spreading it.”

    Do you have a list of people that most make you angry and follow them on Twitter? Whenever you feel that you are becoming a little too easy going and on the path to wokedom you verbally flagellate yourself with the opinions of Christina Pagel, or some anti-British Irishman from County Wicklow
    [Gerry Adams voice] Covid hasn't gone away, you know!
    Was it really Gerry Adams, or was he voiced by an actor?
    Ipse dixit. The voicing by actors was earlier (and it happened to others, which included loyalists as well btw):
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ira-has-not-gone-away-adams-warns-ministers-ira-has-not-gone-away-1596152.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988–1994_British_broadcasting_voice_restrictions
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    PMQ's.
    Liaison Committee.
    Tomorrow.

    Oddly, I can see him putting in oddly strong performances.

    He's completely undercut, things are unravelling, so like England Crickets this summer he will just go on the offensive. He'll swing wildly, missing half the time and treading on his own stumps, but you won't be able to pin him down.
    Starmer will go easy.

    He knows that a wounded lying corrupt useless clown is a vote winner for Lab
    What’s the betting that Johnson is on the ropes at PMQs until Blackford lets him off by being irrelevant and pompous?
  • Andrew Mitchell except for Plodgate, always seemed quite sensible to me, perhaps I have a bad memory
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Interesting to see whether Zahawi has an opportunity to cut corporation tax.

    My understanding is that the Treasury discovered that firms merely pocketed the tax cuts and paid it out in dividends - often to overseas owners - rather than making capital investments in their own businesses.

    Hence it was hiked, and generous write-offs provided for capital expenditures instead.

    OMG.

    Who gives a feck.

    He will be gone by the end of summer and no one will give a otter's arse what the hell he does in next six weeks.

    This regime is ending.
    It's only ending any time soon if the Tory leadership rules are changed, a second confidence vote is then called, and Johnson loses said vote. It's very far from certain that things will come to that. It would require the Tory rebels to feel very confident that they had the numbers to win this time, and for all those MPs to then go through with doing the deed.

    As I suggested in the previous thread, the Tory Parliamentary party may very well be too divided, and therefore too weak, confused and frightened, to commit. Because failing to dispatch Johnson for a second time would almost certainly mean that they were stuck with him until the next election - something that everyone outside of the loyalist faction would sincerely wish to avoid.
    The rules are likely to change very soon and only 33 more names are needed to axe Johnson

    It is clear tonight those numbers are there
    Would be delighted were you to be proven right.

    OTOH all the MPs who voted to keep Johnson a month ago knew perfectly well what they were committing to. The Chris Pincher revelations do not change the fundamentals one iota. Are that many of them, therefore, willing to change their minds now? I'll believe it when I see it and not before.
    They really, really, really thought he'd stop instinctively lying if given one more chance to stop doing so?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Ziahawi must be the greatest cynic.

    He is gaming that Johnson remains at least a year and so he, Zihawi, is then a player.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    Genuinely scary.

    Public universities in Florida will be required to survey both faculty and students on their political beliefs and viewpoints, with the institutions at risk of losing their funding if the responses are not satisfactory to the state's Republican-led legislature.

    The unprecedented project, which was tucked into a law signed Tuesday by Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, is part of a long-running, nationwide right-wing push to promote "intellectual diversity" on campuses — though worries over a lack of details on the survey's privacy protections, and questions over what the results may ultimately be used for, hover over the venture.

    Based on the bill's language, survey responses will not necessarily be anonymous — sparking worries among many professors and other university staff that they may be targeted, held back in their careers or even fired for their beliefs.

    According to the bill's sponsor, state Sen. Ray Rodrigues, faculty will not be promoted or fired based on their responses, but, as The Tampa Bay Times reported Tuesday, the bill itself does not back up those claims.


    https://www.salon.com/2021/06/23/desantis-signs-bill-requiring-florida-students-professors-to-register-political-views-with-state/

    No. Completely justified. The horrendous onethink on American campuses has to be challenged. They are 99% Democrat and 98% Woke, yet the rest of America really is not, and this gulf is bad for any country
    I've got little confidence the situation will improve because of 'government surveys'. Too blunt. A softer approach, linking state funding with commitments to viewpoint diversity and freedom of speech would probably be more effective.
    But it is, at least, a start

    Extirpating Extreme Wokeness from Academe is an urgent need. That’s where CRT came from: the universities
    If only you knew as much about US universities and CRT as you do about AI.
    I think you're so embedded into ground zero of liberal California you fail to recognise CRT for the cancer it is.
    CRT is a bogeyman invented by the Right to dogwhistle racism. The people pushing CRT fears are the people who claim Trump won the election and that COVID vaccines are dangerous.
    CRT is a real thing invented by the Left to practice actual racism.
    CRT contains much that is wrong, a fair amount which is unobjectionable, and a few things which are probably right but which are very uncomfortable.

    The parts that look at the fact that we are all - at times - racist without realising it come into the last category.

    Unconscious bias is something that all of us claim not to have. But I'm afraid there's a lot research that suggests it is very real. One study that took me aback involved sending fake job applications from students graduating law schools, with all information identical except the colour of the skin of the applicant in the photo. The white candidates were offered interviews at a rate much higher than the African American ones.

    There is also plenty of evidence that white professors are more likely to call upon other white students over black ones to answer questions in lectures. And are more likely to accept excuses about "circumstances" to account for bad grades.

    For what it's worth, I am sure that the same thing works the other way around too. That black professors see kindred spirits in black students and call on them more often.

    But then we do also need to take a step back.

    Unconscious bias is not just about race. In the UK, there have been studies where people are asked to judge the intelligence of a speaker. Race was not the most important factor - accent was. Even if the actual words were the same, the person with the Liverpudlian accent was considered less intelligent than the one with the soft Edinburgh burr.

    And the level of unconscious bias we now see is far, far less than the explicit and conscious bias we've had in the past. In most of the developed world the equality of opportunity for a person of colour has never been greater. Socioeconomic inequality is - realistically - a bigger issue that unconscious bias or racism.
    The term CRT has been expanded by the Right to refer to almost any academic study of racism or racial inequality, or any sort of anti-racism initiative. Indeed, it's become a generic bogeyman for all evils in the world.

    However, it began focused on US legal studies. To quote the Wikipedia article, "One tenet of CRT is that racism and disparate racial outcomes are the result of complex, changing, and often subtle social and institutional dynamics, rather than explicit and intentional prejudices of individuals." That's hard to disagree with. The next bit is more complicated: "CRT scholars argue that the social and legal construction of race advances the interests of White people[7][11] at the expense of people of color,[12][13] and that the liberal notion of U.S. law as "neutral" plays a significant role in maintaining a racially unjust social order,[14] where formally color-blind laws continue to have racially discriminatory outcomes.[15]" It's hard to get into that without some expertise in US legal history and theory. Those decrying CRT as a threat to modern civilization, however, are clearly not actually trying to engage with what CRT actually argues.
    You are making the elementary error of arguing facts with people down the rabbit hole of paranoid conspiracy theories.
    CRT = Campaigning, Republican Tactic

    Believe JRM's opposition is based on misconception it stands for Copernican Revolution Theory.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,636
    maxh said:

    @williamglenn asserts that meritocracy is the enemy, dismissing the idea that CRT could be aiming for meritocracy, but without evidence.

    For example, schools have been put under pressure to abandon "merit-based, race-blind admissions exams" in favour of quotas.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/07/02/purge-asian-american-students-thomas-jefferson-has-begun/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Lord Finkelstein tells newsnight Johnson is a liar.

    No way around it

    Malcolm Rifkind not holding back...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    geoffw said:

    Like 'em or loathe 'em you've got to give it to the Tories. No other party does a better shambles.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Is it really true that Sir Beer K*rm* has indeed received a FPN, is appealing against it, and has put an injunction on anyone that reports it??

    That’s what Twitter is saying quite convincingly

    If so - if it is true - what a sinister and slippery thing to do

    It was supported by a GBNews reporter but it seems unlikely as aside from him nobody 'valid' is claiming it
    I’ve seen it in a couple of places. One of them quite reliable. But yes it could easily be bullshit

    If true, tho, and if this emerges, it won’t be good for Korma
    Karma for Korma.

    Corbyn lost 13 Shadow Cabinet Ministers in June 2016, Johnson has only lost 3 Cabinet Ministers so far
    True enough, though there's more at stake personally in quitting the Cabinet vs the Shadow Cabinet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    I laid half my ‘Boris out by conference’ bet earlier today at around 1.1.
    It’s now back up to 1.4 - tempting, or worth waiting for better value elsewhere ?
  • The Express ROFL!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Rifkind tearing into the sack of jizz on bbc.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Rifkind tearing into the sack of jizz on bbc.

    Blimey, standards really have slipped!
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The number of Britons who want Boris Johnson to resign has reached a new high, at 69%.

    The majority of 2019 Conservative voters (54%) also want to see the PM go, the first time this has been higher than the number who want him to stay (33%)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/07/05/b572b/1 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1544423365712252928 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1544425921435901952/photo/1

    What about current Tory voters and Tory members
    They don't matter, they're already voting Tory anyway and don't need to be won back.

    What matters most is the plethora people who've stopped backing the Tories, all for their own varied reasons. Every "PB Tory" but you it seems, which really ought to set alarm bells going.
    They do matter, Tory members will decide the next Tory leader if Boris goes. There is also little evidence any alternative leader would do much better v Starmer than Boris is.

    You are no PB Tory, you voted Labour in 2001 and for Farage, you are a Tory leaning swing voter at most.

    You really are a moron. Now would be the perfect time not to support a political corpse. The fact that you think that supporting Johnson is the shibboleth for Conservatives is stupid beyond all reason. Personally I hope your party is utterly destroyed, since such destruction seems to be the only thing that would bring you all to your senses. Admittedly you may become supporters of a post Conservative Tory party, but as long as the crime scene off Whitehall is cleaned up, most of us, whether Tory or nor, will feel relief.
    31% to 34% are still voting Tory in most polls, even under Johnson and around a third of the public even tonight want him to stay.

    Yet 98% of PB now don't back the Tories and want Johnson out and you will scream and shout but Johnson loyalists are still about a a third of the country and cannot be ignored
    I see you are quite determined for me to award you the PB Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf Award (aka The Comical Ali Cup) once again for services to CCO Department of Spin. I shall also ask the Pope to consider you as a possible living saint; Saint HY Additional Patron Saint of Lost Causes (alongside St. Jude The Apostle)
    I would rather be the Saint of Lost Causes than the Vicar of Bray!
    Ah, the Vicar of Bray! Wasn't he the one that changed his principles to remain in favour. Now I am sure you voted Remain, but continue to drone on about Leavers as though you were one? On the biggest principle of the current political age you traded your principles. You are the Vicar of Bray and I claim my £5
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    The Express ROFL!

    Madness.

    Tax cuts for all!!!

    Insane levels of delusion.

  • Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,927
    edited July 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    And the British people then elected him in December 2019 by the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 1987
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    Better to win today and face a problem tomorrow than lose today. Future you can solve any problems - a truism for government of all colours.

    Of course, the idea is they are suppose to at least attempt to solve the problems, and so far the Tory MPs as a majority do not wish to do so.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Nadine Dorries tweeted this and then very quickly deleted it. https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1544435322548883456/photo/1


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    And the British people then elected him December 2019 by the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 1987
    "Brsitish people".

    Voters in the UK, and only some of those who bothered to turn out.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    If the men in grey suits really exist then, this, is surely, is their hour?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    We had this earlier.

    As far as I understand it, it is impossible for Starmer to appeal a FPN and get an injunction

    You do not have to accept a FPN. You say no, and then see if they decide to take it further.
    I do not think this has happened.
    Irrelevant. Starmer said he'd resign if he was issued an FPN, not if he accepted one.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    And the British people then elected him in December 2019 by the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 1987
    But did they vote for Bozo or did they vote for anyone other than Corbyn...

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Scott_xP said:

    Nadine Dorries tweeted this and then very quickly deleted it. https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1544435322548883456/photo/1


    hahaha
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    And the British people then elected him in December 2019 by the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 1987
    Against Corbyn.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Interesting to see whether Zahawi has an opportunity to cut corporation tax.

    My understanding is that the Treasury discovered that firms merely pocketed the tax cuts and paid it out in dividends - often to overseas owners - rather than making capital investments in their own businesses.

    Hence it was hiked, and generous write-offs provided for capital expenditures instead.

    OMG.

    Who gives a feck.

    He will be gone by the end of summer and no one will give a otter's arse what the hell he does in next six weeks.

    This regime is ending.
    It's only ending any time soon if the Tory leadership rules are changed, a second confidence vote is then called, and Johnson loses said vote. It's very far from certain that things will come to that. It would require the Tory rebels to feel very confident that they had the numbers to win this time, and for all those MPs to then go through with doing the deed.

    As I suggested in the previous thread, the Tory Parliamentary party may very well be too divided, and therefore too weak, confused and frightened, to commit. Because failing to dispatch Johnson for a second time would almost certainly mean that they were stuck with him until the next election - something that everyone outside of the loyalist faction would sincerely wish to avoid.
    The rules are likely to change very soon and only 33 more names are needed to axe Johnson

    It is clear tonight those numbers are there
    Would be delighted were you to be proven right.

    OTOH all the MPs who voted to keep Johnson a month ago knew perfectly well what they were committing to. The Chris Pincher revelations do not change the fundamentals one iota. Are that many of them, therefore, willing to change their minds now? I'll believe it when I see it and not before.
    They really, really, really thought he'd stop instinctively lying if given one more chance to stop doing so?
    It does seem like they've finally realised that he isn't going to stop lying
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,839

    If the men in grey suits really exist then, this, is surely, is their hour?

    The Greys Leon is always talking about?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited July 2022
    dixiedean said:

    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Interesting to see whether Zahawi has an opportunity to cut corporation tax.

    My understanding is that the Treasury discovered that firms merely pocketed the tax cuts and paid it out in dividends - often to overseas owners - rather than making capital investments in their own businesses.

    Hence it was hiked, and generous write-offs provided for capital expenditures instead.

    OMG.

    Who gives a feck.

    He will be gone by the end of summer and no one will give a otter's arse what the hell he does in next six weeks.

    This regime is ending.
    It's only ending any time soon if the Tory leadership rules are changed, a second confidence vote is then called, and Johnson loses said vote. It's very far from certain that things will come to that. It would require the Tory rebels to feel very confident that they had the numbers to win this time, and for all those MPs to then go through with doing the deed.

    As I suggested in the previous thread, the Tory Parliamentary party may very well be too divided, and therefore too weak, confused and frightened, to commit. Because failing to dispatch Johnson for a second time would almost certainly mean that they were stuck with him until the next election - something that everyone outside of the loyalist faction would sincerely wish to avoid.
    The rules are likely to change very soon and only 33 more names are needed to axe Johnson

    It is clear tonight those numbers are there
    Would be delighted were you to be proven right.

    OTOH all the MPs who voted to keep Johnson a month ago knew perfectly well what they were committing to. The Chris Pincher revelations do not change the fundamentals one iota. Are that many of them, therefore, willing to change their minds now? I'll believe it when I see it and not before.
    They really, really, really thought he'd stop instinctively lying if given one more chance to stop doing so?
    Naturally - he promised!

    Edit:Someone read these people the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog, quick (the turtle one works too)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Interesting thing tonight. Still a few Tory MPs who genuinely seem to think we’ve had the worse of the Pincher revelations. A brave assumption.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1544444079609610247
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited July 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    Correct. And Lab thought it would be a great idea to oppose him in 2019 with an unrepentant Britain-hating anti-semite.
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    And the British people then elected him in December 2019 by the biggest Tory landslide since Thatcher in 1987
    Did they? Or was it that they hated Corbyn more.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Those he did not resign will pay a price says Finkelstein.

  • TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    Correct. And Lab thought it would be a great idea to oppose him in 2019 with an unrepentant Britain-hating anti-semite.
    I've said sorry, we've said sorry. He's gone. We made a mistake. We accept it
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    Rifkind tearing into the sack of jizz on bbc.

    Don’t they provide wine and snacks in the green room any more?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    edited July 2022
    Lib Dem's know who to blame...
    image
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    Scott_xP said:

    Nadine Dorries tweeted this and then very quickly deleted it. https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1544435322548883456/photo/1


    I assume because someone pointed out to her that Priti Patel would have sent him to Rwanda if she was in charge then
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Doctor Pagel has some more fun advice for us in the Guardian


    Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and member of the Independent Sage group of experts

    “I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops. I now also wear one during face-to-face meetings at work and would if I was going to the cinema, theatre, etc. However, I have chosen to restrict my social activities or meet outside wherever possible during these weeks of very high levels of infection. Many will not be able to restrict their contacts, so a well-fitting, high-quality mask (FFP2/FFP3) is even more important to try to reduce their chance of catching Covid or of spreading it.”

    It's a sort of darwinism, isn't it. These people are just going to stop interacting with other people, and therefore stop breeding.
    I remember reading this in lockdown, and for some of the most intense it seemed on the nose.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Sun
    I cannot imagine a world without touch. To touch another human being, whether that's a comforting arm around the shoulder of an elderly relative, a hug with a friend you haven't seen in months, a passionate kiss that reignites an old flame, or even the old man on man, testosterone fuelled sparring in the ring that gets all the anger and aggression out. And you shake hands after.

    Being deprived of all of the above almost sent me insane during lockdown. I'm now of the opinion that, come what may, I'll take my chances.
    There's a group of people I call COVID Worriers. I don't mean those who are concerned about catching COVID-19. I'm on day 11 after getting COVID and it's no fun! I mean those who think that any discussion of COVID-19, any acknowledgement that we're in a new wave, any steps taken to avoid infection, are the top of a slippery slope leading inevitably to a complete lockdown.

    Someone making a personal choice to wear a mask on the Tube during a period of high infections is treated as if they are seeking to enslave us. This is such nonsense. Why are some here so scared of others' choices?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Two weeks ago a senior Tory MP told me Boris Johnson’s big reshuffle would end up happening by proxy because of the sheer number of resignations

    They said it would be like the Theresa May’s end of days all over again with a drumbeat of ministers quitting and being replaced

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544444416794185728
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,296
    It does no favour to the Boris Must Go cause to have embittered old Remoaner Queens like Rifkind and Heseltine denouncing Boris. It just makes normal people think “ugh, this is all about Remainer revenge for Brexit”

    Get these ancient old twats off the telly. Thanks
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    OT - in UK, does "pleased" mean "appalled"?
  • Johnson is safe.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    Correct. And Lab thought it would be a great idea to oppose him in 2019 with an unrepentant Britain-hating anti-semite.
    I've said sorry, we've said sorry. He's gone. We made a mistake. We accept it
    Ha! Indeed. Not criticising you but it needs to be pointed out from time to time when we talk about the useless twat Johnson.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    Correct. And Lab thought it would be a great idea to oppose him in 2019 with an unrepentant Britain-hating anti-semite.
    I've said sorry, we've said sorry. He's gone. We made a mistake. We accept it
    Ha! Indeed. Not criticising you but it needs to be pointed out from time to time when we talk about the useless twat Johnson.
    The point I make is that the Tories nonetheless did not need to vote him in as party leader.

    Against Corbyn, get it - still stupid but I get it.

    But against Hunt, no I do not
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Rifkind: “The antipathy to Boris Johnson in Scotland is matched in England & Wales as well. This is no longer a north/south divide or 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 / 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 divide, pretty much the whole country thinks he’s a loser, should not be PM, does not have the integrity or honesty to command.”#Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544444960937836546


    He's not wrong...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    "Any cabinet minister, or indeed junior minister, who does not now leave through the door that Sunak and Javid have opened is opting to assist him and must be judged accordingly" ✍️ @Dannythefink https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/now-others-must-follow-and-do-the-right-thing-769xrl3bx?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1657056651-1
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Doctor Pagel has some more fun advice for us in the Guardian


    Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London and member of the Independent Sage group of experts

    “I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on public transport and in shops. I now also wear one during face-to-face meetings at work and would if I was going to the cinema, theatre, etc. However, I have chosen to restrict my social activities or meet outside wherever possible during these weeks of very high levels of infection. Many will not be able to restrict their contacts, so a well-fitting, high-quality mask (FFP2/FFP3) is even more important to try to reduce their chance of catching Covid or of spreading it.”

    It's a sort of darwinism, isn't it. These people are just going to stop interacting with other people, and therefore stop breeding.
    I remember reading this in lockdown, and for some of the most intense it seemed on the nose.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Sun
    I cannot imagine a world without touch. To touch another human being, whether that's a comforting arm around the shoulder of an elderly relative, a hug with a friend you haven't seen in months, a passionate kiss that reignites an old flame, or even the old man on man, testosterone fuelled sparring in the ring that gets all the anger and aggression out. And you shake hands after.

    Being deprived of all of the above almost sent me insane during lockdown. I'm now of the opinion that, come what may, I'll take my chances.
    There's a group of people I call COVID Worriers. I don't mean those who are concerned about catching COVID-19. I'm on day 11 after getting COVID and it's no fun! I mean those who think that any discussion of COVID-19, any acknowledgement that we're in a new wave, any steps taken to avoid infection, are the top of a slippery slope leading inevitably to a complete lockdown.

    Someone making a personal choice to wear a mask on the Tube during a period of high infections is treated as if they are seeking to enslave us. This is such nonsense. Why are some here so scared of others' choices?
    Because for a considerable period of time such people were dictating to the country how many people were allowed in our homes and many are understandably scarred by the experience.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,296
    moonshine said:

    Rifkind tearing into the sack of jizz on bbc.

    Don’t they provide wine and snacks in the green room any more?
    Hahahaha

    Seriously. Properly funny. LOL
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    It does no favour to the Boris Must Go cause to have embittered old Remoaner Queens like Rifkind and Heseltine denouncing Boris. It just makes normal people think “ugh, this is all about Remainer revenge for Brexit”

    Get these ancient old twats off the telly. Thanks

    Leon. You are not normal. That is not necessarily a compliment. Anyway, they can't be much older than you are they?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    edited July 2022
    Surely being Health Sec vs being Chief of Staff (and literally at the centre of power and basically door keeper to the emperor) is a demotion?

    Leo would not have done this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,927
    Leon said:

    It does no favour to the Boris Must Go cause to have embittered old Remoaner Queens like Rifkind and Heseltine denouncing Boris. It just makes normal people think “ugh, this is all about Remainer revenge for Brexit”

    Get these ancient old twats off the telly. Thanks

    Both of course in the Cabinet which led the Tories to their worst landslide defeat since 1832, trashing the leader who led the Tories to their biggest landslide win since 1987.

    Yet no recognition of that from either of them
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Leon said:

    It does no favour to the Boris Must Go cause to have embittered old Remoaner Queens like Rifkind and Heseltine denouncing Boris. It just makes normal people think “ugh, this is all about Remainer revenge for Brexit”

    Get these ancient old twats off the telly. Thanks

    A fair point really. It can be entertaining, but the usual crowd of opponents don't add value to this. It's the Brexiteers, the hard right, the utterly loyal turning on him which signals an end. They are the ones who would demonstrate to the viewers that a tide has turned - not people going 'We bloody told you so!'

    Nothing makes a grateful person ungrateful faster than being told they should be grateful. And nothing makes a person who realises they made a mistake get stubborn faster than being told 'I told you so'.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Scott_xP said:

    Two weeks ago a senior Tory MP told me Boris Johnson’s big reshuffle would end up happening by proxy because of the sheer number of resignations

    They said it would be like the Theresa May’s end of days all over again with a drumbeat of ministers quitting and being replaced

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1544444416794185728

    A revolving door is being fitted on No10
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Andrew Mitchell except for Plodgate, always seemed quite sensible to me, perhaps I have a bad memory

    I think he was a bit unlucky over plodgate tbh, got stitched up.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited July 2022
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    Correct. And Lab thought it would be a great idea to oppose him in 2019 with an unrepentant Britain-hating anti-semite.
    I've said sorry, we've said sorry. He's gone. We made a mistake. We accept it
    Ha! Indeed. Not criticising you but it needs to be pointed out from time to time when we talk about the useless twat Johnson.
    It is true. But he's gone.
    So. About that useless twat who hasn't and won't.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Surely being Health Sec vs being Chief of Staff (and literally at the centre of power and basically door keeper to the emperor) is a demotion?

    Leo would not have done this.

    Understand Steve Barclay was in the running for both top jobs this evening - not just health sec but chancellor.

    As a former health minister and chief sec to treasury he had experience in both departments.

    No10 considered him for chancellor, ended up giving him health.


    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1544445477650841601

    Zahawi was their "safety" candidate...
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited July 2022

    OT - in UK, does "pleased" mean "appalled"?

    Not in normal usage.

    Out of the mouth of a politician, yes, it can mean that. The lying scumbags.

    See Orwell: Politics and the English language, 1946.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    Correct. And Lab thought it would be a great idea to oppose him in 2019 with an unrepentant Britain-hating anti-semite.
    I've said sorry, we've said sorry. He's gone. We made a mistake. We accept it
    Ha! Indeed. Not criticising you but it needs to be pointed out from time to time when we talk about the useless twat Johnson.
    The point I make is that the Tories nonetheless did not need to vote him in as party leader.

    Against Corbyn, get it - still stupid but I get it.

    But against Hunt, no I do not
    Oh absolutely. I was team Hunt but read some (any) of @HYUFD's posts to understand why the party voted him in.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    CatMan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nadine Dorries tweeted this and then very quickly deleted it. https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1544435322548883456/photo/1


    I assume because someone pointed out to her that Priti Patel would have sent him to Rwanda if she was in charge then
    Could be worse, could have gotten the wrong picture.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    It does no favour to the Boris Must Go cause to have embittered old Remoaner Queens like Rifkind and Heseltine denouncing Boris. It just makes normal people think “ugh, this is all about Remainer revenge for Brexit”

    Get these ancient old twats off the telly. Thanks

    Both of course in the Cabinet which led the Tories to their worst landslide defeat since 1832, trashing the leader who led the Tories to their biggest landslide win since 1987.

    Yet no recognition of that from either of them
    You voted remain. Like they did. No recognition of that from you either.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    On this forum at least, it strikes me that it's those on the political right who are more in favour of cancel culture and against freedom of speech. Two examples from tonight - CRT and Christina Pagel.

    Us lefties, on the other hand, are more easy-going. Give your views, and let's argue the toss - but don't tell people to shut up.

    Who is cancelling her? Her views are as relevant as what Patsy Palmer or the Gogglebox crew think but she is free to make them if invited by idiot media to do so. As we are to point out we dont care what she thinks.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    Correct. And Lab thought it would be a great idea to oppose him in 2019 with an unrepentant Britain-hating anti-semite.
    I've said sorry, we've said sorry. He's gone. We made a mistake. We accept it
    Ha! Indeed. Not criticising you but it needs to be pointed out from time to time when we talk about the useless twat Johnson.
    The point I make is that the Tories nonetheless did not need to vote him in as party leader.

    Against Corbyn, get it - still stupid but I get it.

    But against Hunt, no I do not
    Oh absolutely. I was team Hunt but read some (any) of @HYUFD's posts to understand why the party voted him in.
    Despite our differences in political views, you are one of my favourite posters and one of the most sensible people here. I'd vote for a party led by you any day
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Any word on Lord Falconer?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Andrew Mitchell except for Plodgate, always seemed quite sensible to me, perhaps I have a bad memory

    I think he was a bit unlucky over plodgate tbh, got stitched up.
    To be honest I think that was what I recall too, I think the Police lied
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    It does no favour to the Boris Must Go cause to have embittered old Remoaner Queens like Rifkind and Heseltine denouncing Boris. It just makes normal people think “ugh, this is all about Remainer revenge for Brexit”

    Get these ancient old twats off the telly. Thanks

    A fair point really. It can be entertaining, but the usual crowd of opponents don't add value to this. It's the Brexiteers, the hard right, the utterly loyal turning on him which signals an end. They are the ones who would demonstrate to the viewers that a tide has turned - not people going 'We bloody told you so!'

    Nothing makes a grateful person ungrateful faster than being told they should be grateful. And nothing makes a person who realises they made a mistake get stubborn faster than being told 'I told you so'.
    To all those Boris Johnson apologists, past or present, I told you so. lol.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    People pointing out Boris has only @ HYUFD defending him on here.
    Well there's Leon. It's all pro-Boris. Followed by "he has to go" in the last sentence.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    dixiedean said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Former Conservative Foreign Secretary Malcolm Rifkind: “He was always unfit to be Prime Minister and a lot of people knew that right from the very beginning.” #Newsnight
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1544442808274415616

    Well yes we said that. Tories voted him for leader anyway
    Correct. And Lab thought it would be a great idea to oppose him in 2019 with an unrepentant Britain-hating anti-semite.
    I've said sorry, we've said sorry. He's gone. We made a mistake. We accept it
    Ha! Indeed. Not criticising you but it needs to be pointed out from time to time when we talk about the useless twat Johnson.
    It is true. But he's gone.
    So. About that useless twat who hasn't and won't.
    That's democracy for you. Our rather, our political system.
  • dixiedean said:

    People pointing out Boris has only @ HYUFD defending him on here.
    Well there's Leon. It's all pro-Boris. Followed by "he has to go" in the last sentence.

    Leon is a character, he doesn't actually believe anything
This discussion has been closed.