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Can that elusive CON poll lead come in June or July? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,999

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was deeply underwhelmed by the muppet representing the train operators on R4 this morning. Apparently, there is currently no wage offer on the table because any wage increase has to be tied to changes in working practices etc.

    I repeat, the day before a national rail strike, there is no offer on the table. ....

    Still can't quite believe it.

    Yes, I heard that - astonishing. The RMT have asked for 7% - high, but below inflation. The employers have refused to say what they will offer. It's hardly surprising that the union has not backed down, with nothing on the table.

    I reckon a settlement of around 5% could be agreed, not unreasonable. But for some reason neither the government nor the employers seem interested in a settlement.

    I'm old enough to remember the halcyon days when the government and its supporters were lauding the return of a high wage economy that would level up, post Brexit and Covid. However, that seems to have somewhat run out of steam once the lorry drivers and a few other groups had been paid off.
    Managers have to manage and if they think that they need to impose new work rosters on their staff that is fair enough. They should negotiate for a period of time to see if a mutually acceptable compromise can be reached and, if not, they should impose what they think is necessary for their business. I have no problem with this.

    What I do have a problem with is refusing to discuss a wage increase at a time of 9% inflation. That is just unacceptable. And to try to pretend that the Union is being unreasonable about this is just dishonest. A settlement between 5 and 7% in the present situation is there for the taking at which point the specific proposals for managing the business can be made.

    The government wants a fight. No other conclusion is possible. Shame on them.
    The government aren't involved, they aren't the management.

    If the unions want an agreement they should be talking to the management, not the government.

    Though perhaps the government should be saying that since the railways aren't operating or serving the purpose they're there for that the subsidies the taxpayers are paying will be reduced so there will be less money for pay settlements.
    I am pretty sure government would get involved were management to start closing the most unprofitable lines.

    What you're spouting is rhetoric rather than reality.
    What I'm saying is my own opinion, nothing more than that.

    If the government wants to pay to keep unprofitable lines open then the management should say we're closing them unless you pay us £x

    Of course then the government should have a choice to say "OK we'll pay it" or "OK close it" or "actually we'll get a different operator to do so instead". Just as employers with striking staff should have the choice between paying the staff what they want, firing the staff, or hiring other staff instead.

    In my view unprofitable lines should be allowed to die. The state shouldn't be choosing winners or losers.
    There are a whole host of problems with saying 'unprofitable lines'.

    There are issues such as the social good a railway can provide; sometimes a good and practical way to provide public transport to some rural areas, particularly for travel to the cities. Like bus services, they are subsidised for the public good. Then there is the experience of the 1960s, when many of the marginal lines shut cost the other routes traffic, both freight and passenger.
    Passenger rail closures are a thing of the past. The rail industry knows that no passenger service withdrawal will be approved by the Secretary of State for Transport either CON or LAB.

    This is why we have 'closure by stealth' instead typically reducing the service on the line/stations which the rail operator would like to close to say one or two trains a day often at unpopular travel times.
    And is why the 'least used station' thing every year is a hoot. (I believe I might be one of the few people to have used Shippea Hill for a genuine reason).

    But IMO the idea that station closures are a thing of the past is dangerous. SSoTs change. Governments change. If the railways suffer a prolonged decrease in passengers and freight due to Covid and strikes, the impossible thought of full station closures will become real.

    Some stations were closed 15-20 years ago as part of the WCML upgrade - Etruria being an example.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,750

    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    franklyn said:

    Rail staff are hastening their own demise.
    Ticket offices will be closing from September (as they have done years ago on the London Underground). Driverless trains are perfectly viable, as on the Docklands Light Railway, which has never had a fatality.
    The present system is massively overstaffed and full of restrictive practices. Staffing costs inflate fares which in turn deter customers.
    The unions are totally short-sighted and clearly need to be reminded of Scargill

    Care to tell me how the bit in bold actually works.

    https://www.londonreconnections.com/2021/the-political-myth-of-the-driverless-tube-train/ will tell you everything anyone needs to know about how it's a complete myth unless you are starting from scratch (and even then it may not make sense).

    Heck Edinburgh, Manchester, Nottingham, Sheffield and Croydon have all introduced Trams since the DLR was built - but none of them are driverless. For the same reason you can't make our rail network driverless when it's easily accessibly by people.

    Only if a track is completely inaccessible to human beings is a driverless network plausible.

    Oh and train prices are set centrally based on a formula from the 70s (from memory) and are completely separate to costs because the network runs at a loss anyway.
    I don't pretend to be an expert but driverless trains are much easier to achieve than driverless trams. Trains run on physically isolated systems with control over all signalling, junctions and access.
    "physically isolated systems with control over all signalling, junctions and access"

    Er ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI8mXzEJFfE.
    Whether the train has a driver or not doesn't change the outcome for level crossing bandits.
    Indeed, suicide-by-train is very common and train drivers are rightly sometimes off for months afterwards, on full pay, in order to preserve their own mental health and process what happened.

    Presumably driverless trains don't need to take months off to process what happened when someone does that, and there isn't someone left with the emotional trauma of seeing and knowing what happened while they were driving and wrongly feeling guilty over something they had absolutely no control over.

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-happens-train-drivers-who-13463775
    *blinks in surprise*

    Robocar which runs over pedestrian with gay abandon = baaad

    Robotrain which ditto = goooood

    *does not compute*
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,743
    Pulpstar said:

    my estate agent just let me know that the landlord is putting up our rent from august by £400 a month

    cost of living and all that x


    https://twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1538867925993627648

    Landlords are going to pass on those interest rate rises in full.

    The thing is I don't remember them reducing rents when interest rates fell. They're shits of the highest order and @MaxPB is spot on about most of them.
    This is a common fallacy about the rental market.

    Landlords set rents at the highest levels tenants can afford. That amount is mostly independent of interest rates. They cannot increase them in line with interest rate rises, nor will they lower them when rates are lower (indeed low rates tend to see landlords buy up housing stock, which drives more middle class into rentals and increases average rental prices).

    Many individual landlords will of course try and increase rents but as a sector increase wont match the increased costs from higher interest rates.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,750

    Food for thought.


    How did the composition of the public sector change over that period?
    As those are percentage salary changes, that should be corrected for automatically.
  • Options
    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    Carnyx said:

    Food for thought.


    How did the composition of the public sector change over that period?
    As those are percentage salary changes, that should be corrected for automatically.
    I don't think it would. If you get rid of a load of high-earning civil servants then it could bring average pay down, even if everyone gets a pay rise.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,750

    Carnyx said:

    Food for thought.


    How did the composition of the public sector change over that period?
    As those are percentage salary changes, that should be corrected for automatically.
    I don't think it would. If you get rid of a load of high-earning civil servants then it could bring average pay down, even if everyone gets a pay rise.
    Not sure about that. A lot of lower level staff were disposed of in elimination or privatisation of basic functions, such as outsourcing of security, partial or actual closure of RN dockyards, etc. Would the armed services not be part of that figure, too?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    Jean-Luc Mélenchon's left wing alliance has already fractured, so that leaves Le Pen as the largest opposition party in the new French parliament.

    https://twitter.com/annesaurat/status/1538871261383868416
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Nigelb said:

    I wonder what can be up with BJ's sinuses? Inhaled a bit too much cordite on his Ukraine visits maybe.


    It's a strange one.
    For me, it's Starmer who sounds as though he needs his adenoids fixed.
    Didn't Ed Miliband have such an operation?

    In Boris case, probably Carrie complaining about his snoring.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Jean-Luc Mélenchon's left wing alliance has already fractured, so that leaves Le Pen as the largest opposition party in the new French parliament.

    https://twitter.com/annesaurat/status/1538871261383868416

    What a mess.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,749

    Jean-Luc Mélenchon's left wing alliance has already fractured, so that leaves Le Pen as the largest opposition party in the new French parliament.

    https://twitter.com/annesaurat/status/1538871261383868416

    I don't suppose that comes with any extra benefits in the French system, beyond bragging rights?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,973

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,749

    Jean-Luc Mélenchon's left wing alliance has already fractured, so that leaves Le Pen as the largest opposition party in the new French parliament.

    https://twitter.com/annesaurat/status/1538871261383868416

    One comment under that goes 'Comme des chiffonniers', which google tells me means 'Like ragpickers', which I feel like is a very specific insult which must be more common in France.
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,098

    Carnyx said:

    Food for thought.


    How did the composition of the public sector change over that period?
    As those are percentage salary changes, that should be corrected for automatically.
    I don't think it would. If you get rid of a load of high-earning civil servants then it could bring average pay down, even if everyone gets a pay rise.
    I assume you have some numbers for that 'load of high-earning civil servants' and their big salaries that were got rid off, and the pay rises that everyone else was getting? My partner worked for Glasgow City Council and afaicr she received zero payrises between 2010-2018.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,749

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    Look, if some Russian autocrat is willing to pay that for their wayward sprogs what right do we have to complain?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065

    Carnyx said:

    Food for thought.


    How did the composition of the public sector change over that period?
    As those are percentage salary changes, that should be corrected for automatically.
    I don't think it would. If you get rid of a load of high-earning civil servants then it could bring average pay down, even if everyone gets a pay rise.
    I assume you have some numbers for that 'load of high-earning civil servants' and their big salaries that were got rid off, and the pay rises that everyone else was getting? My partner worked for Glasgow City Council and afaicr she received zero payrises between 2010-2018.
    No, I don't have any numbers. My point is just that those figures in isolation could be misleading.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,749

    Carnyx said:

    Food for thought.


    How did the composition of the public sector change over that period?
    As those are percentage salary changes, that should be corrected for automatically.
    I don't think it would. If you get rid of a load of high-earning civil servants then it could bring average pay down, even if everyone gets a pay rise.
    I assume you have some numbers for that 'load of high-earning civil servants' and their big salaries that were got rid off, and the pay rises that everyone else was getting? My partner worked for Glasgow City Council and afaicr she received zero payrises between 2010-2018.
    The idea the getting rid of the top ranks would materially make a difference is the 'we should build on brownfield first' of this issue - sure, it's not entirely irrelevant, but it also is not going to address the principal issue entirely as people pretend it would.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    franklyn said:

    Rail staff are hastening their own demise.
    Ticket offices will be closing from September (as they have done years ago on the London Underground). Driverless trains are perfectly viable, as on the Docklands Light Railway, which has never had a fatality.
    The present system is massively overstaffed and full of restrictive practices. Staffing costs inflate fares which in turn deter customers.
    The unions are totally short-sighted and clearly need to be reminded of Scargill

    Care to tell me how the bit in bold actually works.

    https://www.londonreconnections.com/2021/the-political-myth-of-the-driverless-tube-train/ will tell you everything anyone needs to know about how it's a complete myth unless you are starting from scratch (and even then it may not make sense).

    Heck Edinburgh, Manchester, Nottingham, Sheffield and Croydon have all introduced Trams since the DLR was built - but none of them are driverless. For the same reason you can't make our rail network driverless when it's easily accessibly by people.

    Only if a track is completely inaccessible to human beings is a driverless network plausible.

    Oh and train prices are set centrally based on a formula from the 70s (from memory) and are completely separate to costs because the network runs at a loss anyway.
    BiB: This is the root of the problem.

    Privatisation was mismanaged, it should have led to the abolition of subsidies but didn't.

    Japan has a highly developed rail network mostly operating without any subsidies. Subsidies should only exist for eg very rural routes etc if they provide a strategic reason they should be open but aren't viable otherwise.

    Rail staff wages should be entirely paid for by rail customers ticket prices, and other associated related revenues. The government shouldn't be in the business of picking and choosing businesses to succeed or fail.
    Parts of the rail network are vastly profitable - otherwise the Open Access Providers wouldn't run long distance services from the North into London.

    The issue is that local short distance networks aren't profitable yet MPs love them and wish for more to be built. Heck round here the current Sedgefield MP wants a station opened at Ferryhill (population 10,000) to provide services to Teesside.

    I suspect the number of commuters wanting an hourly service from Ferryhill to Boro is about 0.01% and that's probably generous.
    If the local short distances aren't profitable, then the government shouldn't be in the business of picking and choosing winners and losers.

    The Japanese manage a highly efficient rail system, mostly without subsidies. We should do the same.
    The rail services on the north island of Hokkaido are 100% public owned, and subsidised.
    And it is hard to see how we would replicate the Japanese model. You'd have to have abolished planning controls before you started hyper expensive projects like HS2, for example.
    Private rail in Japan either owns or has extremely long leases on its rail. It makes up to a third of its money from real estate development. And it consists of local monopolies, not competitors sharing track owned by an operating company, on short term franchises.
    BiB - Hmmm. Are you aware on my opinion of planning controls?

    Two birds, one stone, springs to mind. Win, win.

    It makes sense for rail operators to be involved in development, because developing an area they're serving by rail improves their rail investment, improving the rail network can improve the area they've invested in. Its a virtuous circle.

    So yes, embracing what the Japanese have very successfully done and emulating their lessons seems to make sense.

    PS Hokkaido is less populated than Scotland, so yes different policies in Scotland than England may make sense.
    That's why I say your opinions on this are fantasy.
    We're discussing how government and/or management deal with the current wage round.

    You're planning for your benign dictatorship.

    There are various debates to be had over all kinds of policies - but the government you support isn't contemplating any of what you propose.
    I don't support the government.

    Primarily because they aren't contemplating any of what I propose on much of anything right now.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,627
    edited June 2022

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    It's supply and demand. Half the world would buy/rent a flat in London if they could afford to. Probably more than half actually.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    franklyn said:

    Rail staff are hastening their own demise.
    Ticket offices will be closing from September (as they have done years ago on the London Underground). Driverless trains are perfectly viable, as on the Docklands Light Railway, which has never had a fatality.
    The present system is massively overstaffed and full of restrictive practices. Staffing costs inflate fares which in turn deter customers.
    The unions are totally short-sighted and clearly need to be reminded of Scargill

    Care to tell me how the bit in bold actually works.

    https://www.londonreconnections.com/2021/the-political-myth-of-the-driverless-tube-train/ will tell you everything anyone needs to know about how it's a complete myth unless you are starting from scratch (and even then it may not make sense).

    Heck Edinburgh, Manchester, Nottingham, Sheffield and Croydon have all introduced Trams since the DLR was built - but none of them are driverless. For the same reason you can't make our rail network driverless when it's easily accessibly by people.

    Only if a track is completely inaccessible to human beings is a driverless network plausible.

    Oh and train prices are set centrally based on a formula from the 70s (from memory) and are completely separate to costs because the network runs at a loss anyway.
    I don't pretend to be an expert but driverless trains are much easier to achieve than driverless trams. Trains run on physically isolated systems with control over all signalling, junctions and access.
    "physically isolated systems with control over all signalling, junctions and access"

    Er ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI8mXzEJFfE.
    Whether the train has a driver or not doesn't change the outcome for level crossing bandits.
    Indeed, suicide-by-train is very common and train drivers are rightly sometimes off for months afterwards, on full pay, in order to preserve their own mental health and process what happened.

    Presumably driverless trains don't need to take months off to process what happened when someone does that, and there isn't someone left with the emotional trauma of seeing and knowing what happened while they were driving and wrongly feeling guilty over something they had absolutely no control over.

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-happens-train-drivers-who-13463775
    *blinks in surprise*

    Robocar which runs over pedestrian with gay abandon = baaad

    Robotrain which ditto = goooood

    *does not compute*
    What are you talking about?

    Pedestrians shouldn't be on train tracks. Pedestrians should be on the road, apart from motorways.

    Trains should have crossings when they intersect with roads and pedestrians and cars should never use a railway crossing when its not safe to do so. If they do, and they're hit, then there's bugger all a driver or a robot can do abut it.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Food for thought.


    How did the composition of the public sector change over that period?
    As those are percentage salary changes, that should be corrected for automatically.
    I don't think it would. If you get rid of a load of high-earning civil servants then it could bring average pay down, even if everyone gets a pay rise.
    I assume you have some numbers for that 'load of high-earning civil servants' and their big salaries that were got rid off, and the pay rises that everyone else was getting? My partner worked for Glasgow City Council and afaicr she received zero payrises between 2010-2018.
    The idea the getting rid of the top ranks would materially make a difference is the 'we should build on brownfield first' of this issue - sure, it's not entirely irrelevant, but it also is not going to address the principal issue entirely as people pretend it would.
    Yeah but a million here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,034

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    Don’t pay it then
  • Options

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    Don’t pay it then
    And be homeless, ok great suggestion
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,627
    edited June 2022

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    Don’t pay it then
    And be homeless, ok great suggestion
    There's plenty of cheap housing in this country. It's just that it's in unfashionable places like Burnley, Caernarfon, Stoke-on-Trent, Middlesbrough, Cumbernauld, etc.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,034

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    Don’t pay it then
    And be homeless, ok great suggestion
    Or move somewhere cheaper
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    Don’t pay it then
    And be homeless, ok great suggestion
    Arf, clicked on one that advertised for £725.

    Turns out that was the weekly price :D
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    franklyn said:

    Rail staff are hastening their own demise.
    Ticket offices will be closing from September (as they have done years ago on the London Underground). Driverless trains are perfectly viable, as on the Docklands Light Railway, which has never had a fatality.
    The present system is massively overstaffed and full of restrictive practices. Staffing costs inflate fares which in turn deter customers.
    The unions are totally short-sighted and clearly need to be reminded of Scargill

    Care to tell me how the bit in bold actually works.

    https://www.londonreconnections.com/2021/the-political-myth-of-the-driverless-tube-train/ will tell you everything anyone needs to know about how it's a complete myth unless you are starting from scratch (and even then it may not make sense).

    Heck Edinburgh, Manchester, Nottingham, Sheffield and Croydon have all introduced Trams since the DLR was built - but none of them are driverless. For the same reason you can't make our rail network driverless when it's easily accessibly by people.

    Only if a track is completely inaccessible to human beings is a driverless network plausible.

    Oh and train prices are set centrally based on a formula from the 70s (from memory) and are completely separate to costs because the network runs at a loss anyway.
    I don't pretend to be an expert but driverless trains are much easier to achieve than driverless trams. Trains run on physically isolated systems with control over all signalling, junctions and access.
    "physically isolated systems with control over all signalling, junctions and access"

    Er ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI8mXzEJFfE.
    Whether the train has a driver or not doesn't change the outcome for level crossing bandits.
    Indeed, suicide-by-train is very common and train drivers are rightly sometimes off for months afterwards, on full pay, in order to preserve their own mental health and process what happened.

    Presumably driverless trains don't need to take months off to process what happened when someone does that, and there isn't someone left with the emotional trauma of seeing and knowing what happened while they were driving and wrongly feeling guilty over something they had absolutely no control over.

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-happens-train-drivers-who-13463775
    *blinks in surprise*

    Robocar which runs over pedestrian with gay abandon = baaad

    Robotrain which ditto = goooood

    *does not compute*
    What are you talking about?

    Pedestrians shouldn't be on train tracks. Pedestrians should be on the road, apart from motorways.

    Trains should have crossings when they intersect with roads and pedestrians and cars should never use a railway crossing when its not safe to do so. If they do, and they're hit, then there's bugger all a driver or a robot can do abut it.
    Much as I admire the sheer unbendingness of your free action, free consequence form of Darwinian libertarianism, robotrain hitting car is a non zero in terms of passenger safety as well.

    And sure your reply will be the free market balance of such things, but that may not be in favour of robotrain!
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,966
    edited June 2022

    Jean-Luc Mélenchon's left wing alliance has already fractured, so that leaves Le Pen as the largest opposition party in the new French parliament.

    https://twitter.com/annesaurat/status/1538871261383868416

    This is what I was alluding to last night.
    The PS are far closer to Macron than Melenchon. Possibly the Greens too. And as for the PCF working with a trot...
    It always was a marriage of convenience. And to be fair it worked for them all. The Left as a whole has far more representation now than they would have had sans NUPES.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited June 2022

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    Don’t pay it then
    And be homeless, ok great suggestion
    It's not where you'll want to spend the rest of your life but it's London for just over a grand a month.

    https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/61702238/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=network&campaign=rich_results

    Found a cupboard in Hillingdon for £1100 too.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,627

    Jean-Luc Mélenchon's left wing alliance has already fractured, so that leaves Le Pen as the largest opposition party in the new French parliament.

    https://twitter.com/annesaurat/status/1538871261383868416

    They don't hang around in France do they.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    On the subject of public sector pay, they readvertised the public sector job I took in 2017 and the pay has gone up 4.8% over 5 years. I still get the bulletins from the union and they are arguing whereabouts the increase is going to fall between 1% and 2% this year. They can't recruit and keep putting out surveys asking why people are put off applying for the job, but don't give the option of saying the pay isn't high enough. They've also recruited a load of low quality staff which is causing them problems. Once they correct the pay for new recruits, which they will inevitably need to do, they will have also to correct the pay for the existing staff as well.
  • Options

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    Don’t pay it then
    And be homeless, ok great suggestion
    Or move somewhere cheaper
    London rents have been jacked up all over, there is nowhere "cheap"
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    Don’t pay it then
    And be homeless, ok great suggestion
    Or move somewhere cheaper
    London rents have been jacked up all over, there is nowhere "cheap"
    Don't know your exact circs, but Slough looks reasonably priced. Commute in from there ?
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    Hello Kaliningrad, little known but historically significant in Europe for such a small spot

    Lithuania's blocking of certain goods coming in by rail from Russia is a bit disruptive short term, though readily overcome, but politically could be like chucking a stick of dynamite in through a door. Will make for an interesting few days to see if it sticks. In all honesty what is Russia really going to do?

    In Ukraine, Russia is still winning as its stands in the context of milestone objectives in the Donbas. It appears, however, some of the heavy kit from the West is starting to be used to effect. Fairly deep Russian supply & logistic operations are now being struck which is return to the fighting approach at the start of the 'Special Miltary Operation'. Its not only the range with which the kit can throw, its the range at which you can stand back and the mobility to scoot. Static Ukrainian artillery has taken a very large hit in the Donbas so it can help reduce the frequent local overmatch that Ukrainian forces are facing with less risk. For ther military geeks, the direct versus indirect fire approaches of Russia & Ukraine are being lab tested for everyone to see.

    Not sure if the MLRS are fielded yet by Ukraine but those things are not your bog standard rocket launcher. If they get to extensive use, you dont want to be under that umbrella. Russian troops have not yet faced something quite like it.


  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,750

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    franklyn said:

    Rail staff are hastening their own demise.
    Ticket offices will be closing from September (as they have done years ago on the London Underground). Driverless trains are perfectly viable, as on the Docklands Light Railway, which has never had a fatality.
    The present system is massively overstaffed and full of restrictive practices. Staffing costs inflate fares which in turn deter customers.
    The unions are totally short-sighted and clearly need to be reminded of Scargill

    Care to tell me how the bit in bold actually works.

    https://www.londonreconnections.com/2021/the-political-myth-of-the-driverless-tube-train/ will tell you everything anyone needs to know about how it's a complete myth unless you are starting from scratch (and even then it may not make sense).

    Heck Edinburgh, Manchester, Nottingham, Sheffield and Croydon have all introduced Trams since the DLR was built - but none of them are driverless. For the same reason you can't make our rail network driverless when it's easily accessibly by people.

    Only if a track is completely inaccessible to human beings is a driverless network plausible.

    Oh and train prices are set centrally based on a formula from the 70s (from memory) and are completely separate to costs because the network runs at a loss anyway.
    I don't pretend to be an expert but driverless trains are much easier to achieve than driverless trams. Trains run on physically isolated systems with control over all signalling, junctions and access.
    "physically isolated systems with control over all signalling, junctions and access"

    Er ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI8mXzEJFfE.
    Whether the train has a driver or not doesn't change the outcome for level crossing bandits.
    Indeed, suicide-by-train is very common and train drivers are rightly sometimes off for months afterwards, on full pay, in order to preserve their own mental health and process what happened.

    Presumably driverless trains don't need to take months off to process what happened when someone does that, and there isn't someone left with the emotional trauma of seeing and knowing what happened while they were driving and wrongly feeling guilty over something they had absolutely no control over.

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-happens-train-drivers-who-13463775
    *blinks in surprise*

    Robocar which runs over pedestrian with gay abandon = baaad

    Robotrain which ditto = goooood

    *does not compute*
    What are you talking about?

    Pedestrians shouldn't be on train tracks. Pedestrians should be on the road, apart from motorways.

    Trains should have crossings when they intersect with roads and pedestrians and cars should never use a railway crossing when its not safe to do so. If they do, and they're hit, then there's bugger all a driver or a robot can do abut it.
    There are many, many places where people are legally on the tracks. They are called "level crossings" and there are different kinds.

    The liability of the railways is not affected by there not being much there can be done about it. Indeed, there is a considerable duty of care to children, irrespective of whether they are trespassing or not. Why do you think the BRB had this film made for schools?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXGqwCbeFD8

    Also - the other problem is whether the train itself is affected. Peoplke have a habit of being in cars, for instance.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,627
    edited June 2022
    Yokes said:

    Hello Kaliningrad, little known but historically significant in Europe for such a small spot

    Lithuania's blocking of certain goods coming in by rail from Russia is a bit disruptive short term, though readily overcome, but politically could be like chucking a stick of dynamite in through a door. Will make for an interesting few days to see if it sticks. In all honesty what is Russia really going to do?

    In Ukraine, Russia is still winning as its stands in the context of milestone objectives in the Donbas. It appears, however, some of the heavy kit from the West is starting to be used to effect. Fairly deep Russian supply & logistic operations are now being struck which is return to the fighting approach at the start of the 'Special Miltary Operation'. Its not only the range with which the kit can throw, its the range at which you can stand back and the mobility to scoot. Static Ukrainian artillery has taken a very large hit in the Donbas so it can help reduce the frequent local overmatch that Ukrainian forces are facing with less risk. For ther military geeks, the direct versus indirect fire approaches of Russia & Ukraine are being lab tested for everyone to see.

    Not sure if the MLRS are fielded yet by Ukraine but those things are not your bog standard rocket launcher. If they get to extensive use, you dont want to be under that umbrella. Russian troops have not yet faced something quite like it.


    My great grandmother was born there, so I take an interest in it.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2022
    AI still has a long way to go .... to me this example is exactly what happened with the whole "sentient discussion": if you prompt with the seed of an answer, the transformer architecture will latch onto this seed. It's really a game of mirrors ...

    1 + 1 = 3 or 4 ?

    3...

    https://twitter.com/SebastienBubeck/status/1538757720005783553?s=20&t=6dKyTIeU5lhsEblrTUMxBw
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,611
    edited June 2022
    I’m on a DLR at the moment, which is of course driverless and has been since its inception. It’s a completely segregated track system though, no level crossings.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,193
    HAH. I’m in the COOLEST BAR in Dilijan, Armenia.

    SOVATS VOZNI

    Sit on THAT and swivel
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,546

    Pulpstar said:

    my estate agent just let me know that the landlord is putting up our rent from august by £400 a month

    cost of living and all that x


    https://twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1538867925993627648

    Landlords are going to pass on those interest rate rises in full.

    The thing is I don't remember them reducing rents when interest rates fell. They're shits of the highest order and @MaxPB is spot on about most of them.
    This is a common fallacy about the rental market.

    Landlords set rents at the highest levels tenants can afford. That amount is mostly independent of interest rates. They cannot increase them in line with interest rate rises, nor will they lower them when rates are lower (indeed low rates tend to see landlords buy up housing stock, which drives more middle class into rentals and increases average rental prices).
    That's not true. And is one of various fairy stories used by activist groups. One of the most common mistakes in the fuckwit media (ie all of it except specialists) is to pretend that a survey of rental adverts - perhaps 1-2% of all tenancies at any one time - is a fair representation of what is being paid by a normal tenant in the country.

    But then we know that rental journos are usually as ignorant as planks, and as well-informed as a house-brick.

    Most LLs set initial rents at market or a little below, when attracting a tenant, and then keep raises small in order to keep the tenant if they a) look after the property and b) pay the rent reliably.

    Changing tenants is *&^% expensive and the time of highest risk and charges, so it is worth paying quite a high price in reduced rents. It costs perhaps 6-9 months rent to change a tenant, and years to get that back in any rent increases.

    Personally I am just re-renting a house (trad 2 bed terrace) after several years, which started with a brand new kitchen. I supplied a worktop saver, but I still need to replace all the worktops because the T has ruined them with hot pans, and replace the hob to boot, and the sink in the bathroom because they cracked that. That plus other bits will be 3x the maximum legal deposit, and there is no point in a court claim due to time and costs. On top there is fees (4-6 week's rent), leaning, lick of paint, partial new carpet, handyman bits etc. None necessary if a T stays.

    I'll be renting at about 10% below the max I am told I can get - £550 not £600 pcm, in order to secure a reliable, long-term tenant, and then rent increases will be CPI once a year. T will be targeted to be someone with a reason to be there for several years eg someone with a child just entering the local primary school, and preferably a 2 earner couple for security.

    As always with mine, up to 2 dogs will be allowed once I am convinced (dog interview by my dog consultant aka another dog breeding tenant who has 8 dogs) that said dogs are trained and civilised.

    Good tenants are worth their weight in gold, and it is very common not to increase rents at all during a tenancy for a few years to retain a tenant who does not for example ruin worktops with hot pans, or have a dog or a child they don't care for properly.

    I have several long term good tenants who are now at 15-25% below market rent, and it is fine.

    Reflect on it, and you will see that the rental policy set to the max in the Estate Agent's window will ignore some elements of real long-term cost, and that the most economic solution is somewhat different to the max headline rent.

    It's a practice most common amongst precisely the LLs - small long term pension generators for example with 1-2 properties - who are being driven out. Which is just another facet of increasingly moronic rental laws. Though the Gove Reforms have promise, as he may be a little bullshit-proof.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    I read your comment and laughed about the unicorns...

    And then I thought, you know what, in this day and age free homes for everyone is not beyond the wit of mankind. Sure, something else would have to give but if society wanted it badly enough it could be done.

    Not saying it's a good idea, just that it's not as impossible as unicorns.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,614

    I wonder what can be up with BJ's sinuses? Inhaled a bit too much cordite on his Ukraine visits maybe.


    Inhaling too much of something that begins co- and ends -e?
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    Andy_JS said:

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    It's supply and demand. Half the world would buy/rent a flat in London if they could afford to. Probably more than half actually.
    Off topic, but this perfectly illustrates why housing need cannot be met through planning policies.

  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,222
    Yokes said:

    Hello Kaliningrad, little known but historically significant in Europe for such a small spot

    Lithuania's blocking of certain goods coming in by rail from Russia is a bit disruptive short term, though readily overcome, but politically could be like chucking a stick of dynamite in through a door. Will make for an interesting few days to see if it sticks. In all honesty what is Russia really going to do?

    In Ukraine, Russia is still winning as its stands in the context of milestone objectives in the Donbas. It appears, however, some of the heavy kit from the West is starting to be used to effect. Fairly deep Russian supply & logistic operations are now being struck which is return to the fighting approach at the start of the 'Special Miltary Operation'. Its not only the range with which the kit can throw, its the range at which you can stand back and the mobility to scoot. Static Ukrainian artillery has taken a very large hit in the Donbas so it can help reduce the frequent local overmatch that Ukrainian forces are facing with less risk. For ther military geeks, the direct versus indirect fire approaches of Russia & Ukraine are being lab tested for everyone to see.

    Not sure if the MLRS are fielded yet by Ukraine but those things are not your bog standard rocket launcher. If they get to extensive use, you dont want to be under that umbrella. Russian troops have not yet faced something quite like it.


    Since Russia announced it does not intend to recognise Lithuanian independence any more, you could say that the dynamite was thrown by Putin. Very dangerous. We have ahad several Russian air incursions into Estonian air space today.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    I read your comment and laughed about the unicorns...

    And then I thought, you know what, in this day and age free homes for everyone is not beyond the wit of mankind. Sure, something else would have to give but if society wanted it badly enough it could be done.

    Not saying it's a good idea, just that it's not as impossible as unicorns.
    I thought this was an interesting video,

    Why shipping container homes are overrated
    https://youtu.be/Ef7hQ35bfIU
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,611

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    I read your comment and laughed about the unicorns...

    And then I thought, you know what, in this day and age free homes for everyone is not beyond the wit of mankind. Sure, something else would have to give but if society wanted it badly enough it could be done.

    Not saying it's a good idea, just that it's not as impossible as unicorns.
    Unicorns are presumably also not beyond the wit of modern genomics.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,262
    I can't get all that fussed about the idea that Boris tried to land his mistress Carrie a six figure job in the F.O. It's a measure of how low things have sunk that none of us is surprised any more.

    It's what came after the story broke which really stinks. The No.10 machine muscling into The Sunday Times to pull the story is the stuff of third world corruption.

    How much more of this putrid situation must we endure?
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,262
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    HAH. I’m in the COOLEST BAR in Dilijan, Armenia.

    SOVATS VOZNI

    Sit on THAT and swivel

    Your rodomontade is tedious
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,193
    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Just read chapter 1 of the Oldham report, 20 pages or so of key findings.

    It doesn't quite read to me as a the general cover up of Leon's summarising, but of a council post 2010 fighting the issue hard, on policy and operation fronts, actively trying to be upfront, but not always succeeding to turn the screw on the abusers tightly or quickly enough, or always managing to get the on the ground coordination right. It definitely highlights failures, very serious failures, especially in 2005-2010, but it doesn't read to me as a damning report on the post 2010 efforts of the council.

    Report link contained within this BBC article:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-61863603

    It's interesting that you're so keen to specifically exonerate Oldham Council from 2010 onwards, but heap blame on them over 2005-2010

    Of course this would have nothing to do with the Labour Leader of Oldham Council elected in 2011?

    That person being Jim McMahon, now Shadow Minister for DEFRA in Keir Starmer's Shadow Cabinet

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_McMahon_(politician)
    I have been impressed at times with Jim McMahon and warmed to him when he was elected in his by election, both how he put himself across and looking at his history as a campaigning council leader. Later he was supposedly the shadow minister dissing Rayner for campaigning in leopard print, where I thought he was being a bit of a pillock.

    So, yes, I pretty well knew who leader A was and where he is now, and that he stands very much on my part of the political spectrum (albeit I'm not an actual activist beyond these pages nor a current member of any party), but my honest reading of the key findings is genuinely that his tenure was a phase where they were very aware and making a strong effort to crack down on this kind of exploitation and as such what I have read does not diminish him in my estimation.

    Perhaps I see a distinction pre and post 2010 more because of that awareness, but it is clearly there in the findings, and the image of a council not getting everything right even in the midst of a push to do better is an important one for other councils and leaders grappling with this. And that image actually has little to do with the stripe of his politics, but his experience and actions being leader in the midst of that storm and is something leaders anywhere on the political spectrum can gain lessons from.
    Hahahahaha


    AHAHAHAHA
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,546

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    If there aren't enough houses for the demand then the initiative should be to increase the rental sector, not reduce it. Whenever the authorities artificially depress supply, or increase universal costs, market forces tend to drive the price of a scarce resource higher.

    Since the Private Rental Sector is more densely occupied than the Owner Occupied sector, such a shift would also help reduce pressure on housing supply. See the English Housing Survey as to which sector has all the unused 2nd spare bedrooms.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,627
    TimS said:

    I’m on a DLR at the moment, which is of course driverless and has been since its inception. It’s a completely segregated track system though, no level crossings.

    The DLR is fantastic. It's a shame they can't expand it to other parts of London.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    edited June 2022

    AI still has a long way to go .... to me this example is exactly what happened with the whole "sentient discussion": if you prompt with the seed of an answer, the transformer architecture will latch onto this seed. It's really a game of mirrors ...

    1 + 1 = 3 or 4 ?

    3...

    https://twitter.com/SebastienBubeck/status/1538757720005783553?s=20&t=6dKyTIeU5lhsEblrTUMxBw

    I dunno.

    Does my dog have intelligence? I'd say he does. Not a vast amount to be fair but he can work out the best way through a new hedge or how to lick the very bottom of a deep yoghurt pot of a type he's never seen before.

    Can he tell you what 1 + 1 equals? Not a chance.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    I wonder what can be up with BJ's sinuses? Inhaled a bit too much cordite on his Ukraine visits maybe.


    Inhaling too much of something that begins co- and ends -e?
    Codeine? Don't you usually take that with water?
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,627
    JonWC said:

    There is a LibDem poster in the window of the Honiton Conservative Club... pretty much sums it up.

    Outside or inside.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,193
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    HAH. I’m in the COOLEST BAR in Dilijan, Armenia.

    SOVATS VOZNI

    Sit on THAT and swivel

    Your rodomontade is tedious
    But I am “a cognoscenti” of travel, I know whereof I speak

    COME AND JOIN ME

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g1160895-d23479593-Reviews-Sovats_Vozni-Dilijan_Tavush_Province.html

    Don’t order gin and tonic, tho: it takes about an hour. With two staff doing it. I’ve no idea why
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,999
    TimS said:

    I’m on a DLR at the moment, which is of course driverless and has been since its inception. It’s a completely segregated track system though, no level crossings.

    Point of order:

    The DLR is driverless, but it is not crewless. AIUI the trains cannot run in revenue service without a train captain (conductor) on board. Who has to be trained to be able to drive the trains manually (there are controls behind panels at either end), and (at least used to) have to open and close the doors at each station.

    Therefore the savings from being 'driverless' are not quite as much as you might expect.

    People discussing this really need to make distinctions between driverless and crewless: only the latter is truly automatic.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,627
    edited June 2022
    The new Elizabeth Line has drivers. I thought they might have automated it.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,098
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Jean-Luc Mélenchon's left wing alliance has already fractured, so that leaves Le Pen as the largest opposition party in the new French parliament.

    https://twitter.com/annesaurat/status/1538871261383868416

    This is what I was alluding to last night.
    The PS are far closer to Macron than Melenchon. Possibly the Greens too. And as for the PCF working with a trot...
    It always was a marriage of convenience. And to be fair it worked for them all. The Left as a whole has far more representation now than they would have had sans NUPES.
    Must admit the unbridled, not to say demented, joy expressed by Mélenchon at having stuffed Macron has put me off him a bit.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,999

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    I read your comment and laughed about the unicorns...

    And then I thought, you know what, in this day and age free homes for everyone is not beyond the wit of mankind. Sure, something else would have to give but if society wanted it badly enough it could be done.

    Not saying it's a good idea, just that it's not as impossible as unicorns.
    I thought this was an interesting video,

    Why shipping container homes are overrated
    https://youtu.be/Ef7hQ35bfIU
    I haven't seen the video, but my dad owned more than a few shipping containers in his time, and has always thought it a crazy idea. Whilst they can be made to work (Grand Designs had a brilliant one in NI), they require so much work to make them liveable spaces you might as well just go for bespoke prefab.

    https://www.granddesignsmagazine.com/grand-designs-houses/shipping-container-home-county-derry-2014/
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,627
    How is this going to be enforced?

    "British tourists will be fined £645 for going to the toilet in Spanish sea under new rules"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10934131/British-tourists-fined-645-going-toilet-Spanish-sea-new-rules.html
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,262

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    I read your comment and laughed about the unicorns...

    And then I thought, you know what, in this day and age free homes for everyone is not beyond the wit of mankind. Sure, something else would have to give but if society wanted it badly enough it could be done.

    Not saying it's a good idea, just that it's not as impossible as unicorns.
    I thought this was an interesting video,

    Why shipping container homes are overrated
    https://youtu.be/Ef7hQ35bfIU
    Shame it was so unbalanced. I mean, he interviewed two highly critical people and, erm, no one pro. Drearily one-sided.

    As I'm sure you know, there was an amazing one on Grand Designs a few years back. Well worth watching for the pros and cons:

    https://www.granddesignsmagazine.com/grand-designs-houses/shipping-container-home-county-derry-2014/

    https://www.livinginacontainer.com/the-grand-designs-shipping-container-house-ireland/

    Here's the link to the full programme:

    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/grand-designs/on-demand/57386-006

    Recommended viewing.
  • Options
    Ooh! I’ve just been given two tickets to see Diana Ross at the O2 on Friday. I’m told they were rather expensive tickets too - £250 each. I should probably try to sell them to pay next month’s rent, but that might upset the donor if they found out so I’m going!
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812
    Leon said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Just read chapter 1 of the Oldham report, 20 pages or so of key findings.

    It doesn't quite read to me as a the general cover up of Leon's summarising, but of a council post 2010 fighting the issue hard, on policy and operation fronts, actively trying to be upfront, but not always succeeding to turn the screw on the abusers tightly or quickly enough, or always managing to get the on the ground coordination right. It definitely highlights failures, very serious failures, especially in 2005-2010, but it doesn't read to me as a damning report on the post 2010 efforts of the council.

    Report link contained within this BBC article:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-61863603

    It's interesting that you're so keen to specifically exonerate Oldham Council from 2010 onwards, but heap blame on them over 2005-2010

    Of course this would have nothing to do with the Labour Leader of Oldham Council elected in 2011?

    That person being Jim McMahon, now Shadow Minister for DEFRA in Keir Starmer's Shadow Cabinet

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_McMahon_(politician)
    I have been impressed at times with Jim McMahon and warmed to him when he was elected in his by election, both how he put himself across and looking at his history as a campaigning council leader. Later he was supposedly the shadow minister dissing Rayner for campaigning in leopard print, where I thought he was being a bit of a pillock.

    So, yes, I pretty well knew who leader A was and where he is now, and that he stands very much on my part of the political spectrum (albeit I'm not an actual activist beyond these pages nor a current member of any party), but my honest reading of the key findings is genuinely that his tenure was a phase where they were very aware and making a strong effort to crack down on this kind of exploitation and as such what I have read does not diminish him in my estimation.

    Perhaps I see a distinction pre and post 2010 more because of that awareness, but it is clearly there in the findings, and the image of a council not getting everything right even in the midst of a push to do better is an important one for other councils and leaders grappling with this. And that image actually has little to do with the stripe of his politics, but his experience and actions being leader in the midst of that storm and is something leaders anywhere on the political spectrum can gain lessons from.
    Hahahahaha


    AHAHAHAHA
    I'm glad you like my rather worthy attempt at answering insinuation with full boring disclosure.

    I'm sure neither you nor that journalistic gentlemen they sometimes repute you to be would have any self-interest whatsoever invested in slanting things a certain way.

    Enjoy your drink!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,750

    AI still has a long way to go .... to me this example is exactly what happened with the whole "sentient discussion": if you prompt with the seed of an answer, the transformer architecture will latch onto this seed. It's really a game of mirrors ...

    1 + 1 = 3 or 4 ?

    3...

    https://twitter.com/SebastienBubeck/status/1538757720005783553?s=20&t=6dKyTIeU5lhsEblrTUMxBw

    I dunno.

    Does my dog have intelligence? I'd say he does. Not a vast amount to be fair but he can work out the best way through a new hedge or how to lick the very bottom of a deep yoghurt pot of a type he's never seen before.

    Can he tell you what 1 + 1 equals? Not a chance.
    Er ...

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090810025241.htm
    https://www.science.org/content/article/dog-brains-have-knack-numbers-much-ours
    But maybe you don't have a Border Collie?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,999
    Andy_JS said:

    The new Elizabeth Line has drivers. I thought they might have automated it.

    CR will know chapter and verse, but a problem with the Elizabeth Line is that it interacts with the existing network on both ends, and especially the western end. Therefore they have to deal with three different signalling systems (this is one of the reasons for the delays).

    AIUI the central section is Automatic Train Operation / ETCS Level 2 compatible, and could be 'driverless'. The same is not true of the rest of the Crossrail network.
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,684
    Andy_JS said:

    JonWC said:

    There is a LibDem poster in the window of the Honiton Conservative Club... pretty much sums it up.

    Outside or inside.
    Inside....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2022
    Heathener said:

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    I read your comment and laughed about the unicorns...

    And then I thought, you know what, in this day and age free homes for everyone is not beyond the wit of mankind. Sure, something else would have to give but if society wanted it badly enough it could be done.

    Not saying it's a good idea, just that it's not as impossible as unicorns.
    I thought this was an interesting video,

    Why shipping container homes are overrated
    https://youtu.be/Ef7hQ35bfIU
    Shame it was so unbalanced. I mean, he interviewed two highly critical people and, erm, no one pro. Drearily one-sided.

    As I'm sure you know, there was an amazing one on Grand Designs a few years back. Well worth watching for the pros and cons:

    https://www.granddesignsmagazine.com/grand-designs-houses/shipping-container-home-county-derry-2014/

    https://www.livinginacontainer.com/the-grand-designs-shipping-container-house-ireland/

    Here's the link to the full programme:

    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/grand-designs/on-demand/57386-006

    Recommended viewing.
    That confirms the argument they are making in the video....Build cost £130,000 (in 2014).....i.e. required lots of work to convert a couple of cheap metal cans into a home.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,999

    Ooh! I’ve just been given two tickets to see Diana Ross at the O2 on Friday. I’m told they were rather expensive tickets too - £250 each. I should probably try to sell them to pay next month’s rent, but that might upset the donor if they found out so I’m going!

    Diana Ross headlined a festival just outside our village last week...
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,262
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    HAH. I’m in the COOLEST BAR in Dilijan, Armenia.

    SOVATS VOZNI

    Sit on THAT and swivel

    Your rodomontade is tedious
    But I am “a cognoscenti” of travel, I know whereof I speak

    COME AND JOIN ME

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g1160895-d23479593-Reviews-Sovats_Vozni-Dilijan_Tavush_Province.html

    Don’t order gin and tonic, tho: it takes about an hour. With two staff doing it. I’ve no idea why
    I prefer to listen to people who spend real time in a place, immersing, putting down roots, learning the language. They are the ones I pay attention to, not a dilettantish gadfly.
  • Options
    Pro_Rata said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    franklyn said:

    Rail staff are hastening their own demise.
    Ticket offices will be closing from September (as they have done years ago on the London Underground). Driverless trains are perfectly viable, as on the Docklands Light Railway, which has never had a fatality.
    The present system is massively overstaffed and full of restrictive practices. Staffing costs inflate fares which in turn deter customers.
    The unions are totally short-sighted and clearly need to be reminded of Scargill

    Care to tell me how the bit in bold actually works.

    https://www.londonreconnections.com/2021/the-political-myth-of-the-driverless-tube-train/ will tell you everything anyone needs to know about how it's a complete myth unless you are starting from scratch (and even then it may not make sense).

    Heck Edinburgh, Manchester, Nottingham, Sheffield and Croydon have all introduced Trams since the DLR was built - but none of them are driverless. For the same reason you can't make our rail network driverless when it's easily accessibly by people.

    Only if a track is completely inaccessible to human beings is a driverless network plausible.

    Oh and train prices are set centrally based on a formula from the 70s (from memory) and are completely separate to costs because the network runs at a loss anyway.
    I don't pretend to be an expert but driverless trains are much easier to achieve than driverless trams. Trains run on physically isolated systems with control over all signalling, junctions and access.
    "physically isolated systems with control over all signalling, junctions and access"

    Er ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI8mXzEJFfE.
    Whether the train has a driver or not doesn't change the outcome for level crossing bandits.
    Indeed, suicide-by-train is very common and train drivers are rightly sometimes off for months afterwards, on full pay, in order to preserve their own mental health and process what happened.

    Presumably driverless trains don't need to take months off to process what happened when someone does that, and there isn't someone left with the emotional trauma of seeing and knowing what happened while they were driving and wrongly feeling guilty over something they had absolutely no control over.

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-happens-train-drivers-who-13463775
    *blinks in surprise*

    Robocar which runs over pedestrian with gay abandon = baaad

    Robotrain which ditto = goooood

    *does not compute*
    What are you talking about?

    Pedestrians shouldn't be on train tracks. Pedestrians should be on the road, apart from motorways.

    Trains should have crossings when they intersect with roads and pedestrians and cars should never use a railway crossing when its not safe to do so. If they do, and they're hit, then there's bugger all a driver or a robot can do abut it.
    Much as I admire the sheer unbendingness of your free action, free consequence form of Darwinian libertarianism, robotrain hitting car is a non zero in terms of passenger safety as well.

    And sure your reply will be the free market balance of such things, but that may not be in favour of robotrain!
    Trains with drivers hit pedestrians too. Suicide-by-train is a very real thing in this country already, indeed it represents about 5% of all suicides I believe.

    A car is designed to be able to stop at a short distance if required. If I am driving in a pedestrian area, then the speed limit will typically be 20mph or 30mph and I'll be required to do an emergency stop if required within seconds. The stopping distance of a car at those speeds can be measured in metres - typically 6 metres at 20mph and 14 metres at 30mph.

    A driver in an area with pedestrians need the hazard awareness that eg a child could step onto the road and be prepared to stop if needed. I have had a child step onto the road in front of my car before, and I was able to stop in time.

    The stopping distance by a train on the other hand varies from half a kilometre to multiple kilometres, not 6 metres.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,404

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    I read your comment and laughed about the unicorns...

    And then I thought, you know what, in this day and age free homes for everyone is not beyond the wit of mankind. Sure, something else would have to give but if society wanted it badly enough it could be done.

    Not saying it's a good idea, just that it's not as impossible as unicorns.
    I thought this was an interesting video,

    Why shipping container homes are overrated
    https://youtu.be/Ef7hQ35bfIU
    I always enjoy the contortions people go through to get past the real problem - if your population has been growing at 300k+ a year for years and you haven’t been building 300k+ bedrooms, then there is huge shortage.

    Second homes, Russian oligarchs, Chinese oligarchs, brown field sites etc are all distractions.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,193
    Andy_JS said:

    How is this going to be enforced?

    "British tourists will be fined £645 for going to the toilet in Spanish sea under new rules"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10934131/British-tourists-fined-645-going-toilet-Spanish-sea-new-rules.html

    What a ridiculous circumlocution. “Going to the toilet in the sea”

    Are British people dragging entire soft-close John Lewis toilet fittings into the Med?
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    MattW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    my estate agent just let me know that the landlord is putting up our rent from august by £400 a month

    cost of living and all that x


    https://twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1538867925993627648

    Landlords are going to pass on those interest rate rises in full.

    The thing is I don't remember them reducing rents when interest rates fell. They're shits of the highest order and @MaxPB is spot on about most of them.
    This is a common fallacy about the rental market.

    Landlords set rents at the highest levels tenants can afford. That amount is mostly independent of interest rates. They cannot increase them in line with interest rate rises, nor will they lower them when rates are lower (indeed low rates tend to see landlords buy up housing stock, which drives more middle class into rentals and increases average rental prices).
    That's not true. And is one of various fairy stories used by activist groups. One of the most common mistakes in the fuckwit media (ie all of it except specialists) is to pretend that a survey of rental adverts - perhaps 1-2% of all tenancies at any one time - is a fair representation of what is being paid by a normal tenant in the country.

    But then we know that rental journos are usually as ignorant as planks, and as well-informed as a house-brick.

    Most LLs set initial rents at market or a little below, when attracting a tenant, and then keep raises small in order to keep the tenant if they a) look after the property and b) pay the rent reliably.

    Changing tenants is *&^% expensive and the time of highest risk and charges, so it is worth paying quite a high price in reduced rents. It costs perhaps 6-9 months rent to change a tenant, and years to get that back in any rent increases.

    Personally I am just re-renting a house (trad 2 bed terrace) after several years, which started with a brand new kitchen. I supplied a worktop saver, but I still need to replace all the worktops because the T has ruined them with hot pans, and replace the hob to boot, and the sink in the bathroom because they cracked that. That plus other bits will be 3x the maximum legal deposit, and there is no point in a court claim due to time and costs. On top there is fees (4-6 week's rent), leaning, lick of paint, partial new carpet, handyman bits etc. None necessary if a T stays.

    I'll be renting at about 10% below the max I am told I can get - £550 not £600 pcm, in order to secure a reliable, long-term tenant, and then rent increases will be CPI once a year. T will be targeted to be someone with a reason to be there for several years eg someone with a child just entering the local primary school, and preferably a 2 earner couple for security.

    As always with mine, up to 2 dogs will be allowed once I am convinced (dog interview by my dog consultant aka another dog breeding tenant who has 8 dogs) that said dogs are trained and civilised.

    Good tenants are worth their weight in gold, and it is very common not to increase rents at all during a tenancy for a few years to retain a tenant who does not for example ruin worktops with hot pans, or have a dog or a child they don't care for properly.

    I have several long term good tenants who are now at 15-25% below market rent, and it is fine.

    Reflect on it, and you will see that the rental policy set to the max in the Estate Agent's window will ignore some elements of real long-term cost, and that the most economic solution is somewhat different to the max headline rent.

    It's a practice most common amongst precisely the LLs - small long term pension generators for example with 1-2 properties - who are being driven out. Which is just another facet of increasingly moronic rental laws. Though the Gove Reforms have promise, as he may be a little bullshit-proof.
    I'm not sure people will go in to it any more: too regulated, too much risk. That was my conclusion. Its going to lead to a crisis in supply of rental housing pushing up rents, and this is going to be a social disaster. We need to massively increase the capacity of housing associations and Councils to provide social housing.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,999
    Yokes said:

    Hello Kaliningrad, little known but historically significant in Europe for such a small spot

    Lithuania's blocking of certain goods coming in by rail from Russia is a bit disruptive short term, though readily overcome, but politically could be like chucking a stick of dynamite in through a door. Will make for an interesting few days to see if it sticks. In all honesty what is Russia really going to do?

    In Ukraine, Russia is still winning as its stands in the context of milestone objectives in the Donbas. It appears, however, some of the heavy kit from the West is starting to be used to effect. Fairly deep Russian supply & logistic operations are now being struck which is return to the fighting approach at the start of the 'Special Miltary Operation'. Its not only the range with which the kit can throw, its the range at which you can stand back and the mobility to scoot. Static Ukrainian artillery has taken a very large hit in the Donbas so it can help reduce the frequent local overmatch that Ukrainian forces are facing with less risk. For ther military geeks, the direct versus indirect fire approaches of Russia & Ukraine are being lab tested for everyone to see.

    Not sure if the MLRS are fielded yet by Ukraine but those things are not your bog standard rocket launcher. If they get to extensive use, you dont want to be under that umbrella. Russian troops have not yet faced something quite like it.

    As ever, thanks. One thing people over on ARRSE are saying is that a problem with the MLRS system is logistics: one launcher can get through a vast amount of ordnance in a day. I can see that becoming a big issue.

    Having the guns is all well and good: keeping them supplied with ammo is a very different issue.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,193
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    HAH. I’m in the COOLEST BAR in Dilijan, Armenia.

    SOVATS VOZNI

    Sit on THAT and swivel

    Your rodomontade is tedious
    But I am “a cognoscenti” of travel, I know whereof I speak

    COME AND JOIN ME

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g1160895-d23479593-Reviews-Sovats_Vozni-Dilijan_Tavush_Province.html

    Don’t order gin and tonic, tho: it takes about an hour. With two staff doing it. I’ve no idea why
    I prefer to listen to people who spend real time in a place, immersing, putting down roots, learning the language. They are the ones I pay attention to, not a dilettantish gadfly.
    you mean one of a cognoscenti, like you, a real connoisseurs of travel, an afficionadio
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,404

    Heathener said:

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    I read your comment and laughed about the unicorns...

    And then I thought, you know what, in this day and age free homes for everyone is not beyond the wit of mankind. Sure, something else would have to give but if society wanted it badly enough it could be done.

    Not saying it's a good idea, just that it's not as impossible as unicorns.
    I thought this was an interesting video,

    Why shipping container homes are overrated
    https://youtu.be/Ef7hQ35bfIU
    Shame it was so unbalanced. I mean, he interviewed two highly critical people and, erm, no one pro. Drearily one-sided.

    As I'm sure you know, there was an amazing one on Grand Designs a few years back. Well worth watching for the pros and cons:

    https://www.granddesignsmagazine.com/grand-designs-houses/shipping-container-home-county-derry-2014/

    https://www.livinginacontainer.com/the-grand-designs-shipping-container-house-ireland/

    Here's the link to the full programme:

    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/grand-designs/on-demand/57386-006

    Recommended viewing.
    That confirms the argument they are making in the video....Build cost £130,000 (in 2014).....i.e. required lots of work to convert a couple of cheap metal cans into a home.
    Shipping containers are fairly rubbish at anything except containing stuff for shipping.

    In the U.K., the housing problem isn’t constructions costs.

    It’s a bit like the fuel costs and space flight thing. If we could get house prices down to the point that construction cost is the problem - then we wouldn’t have a problem.
  • Options

    Ooh! I’ve just been given two tickets to see Diana Ross at the O2 on Friday. I’m told they were rather expensive tickets too - £250 each. I should probably try to sell them to pay next month’s rent, but that might upset the donor if they found out so I’m going!

    Diana Ross headlined a festival just outside our village last week...
    Childerley Hall? A friend of mine was singing on the main stage the night before.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,189
    edited June 2022
    Heathener said:

    I can't get all that fussed about the idea that Boris tried to land his mistress Carrie a six figure job in the F.O. It's a measure of how low things have sunk that none of us is surprised any more.

    It's what came after the story broke which really stinks. The No.10 machine muscling into The Sunday Times to pull the story is the stuff of third world corruption.

    How much more of this putrid situation must we endure?

    This sort of scandal felled the Douglas- Home Government.

    I am not comparing in any way Ms Symonds to Christine Keeler, nonetheless we have a Prime Minister who is so cavalier with blurring the lines between his national security sensitive professional life with his sexually incontinent private life that he really does appear to be a potential risk to national security.

    Scratching a Times story is one thing, at least there are no super injunctions that should worry us...

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,193
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    HAH. I’m in the COOLEST BAR in Dilijan, Armenia.

    SOVATS VOZNI

    Sit on THAT and swivel

    Your rodomontade is tedious
    But I am “a cognoscenti” of travel, I know whereof I speak

    COME AND JOIN ME

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g1160895-d23479593-Reviews-Sovats_Vozni-Dilijan_Tavush_Province.html

    Don’t order gin and tonic, tho: it takes about an hour. With two staff doing it. I’ve no idea why
    I prefer to listen to people who spend real time in a place, immersing, putting down roots, learning the language. They are the ones I pay attention to, not a dilettantish gadfly.
    you mean one of a cognoscenti, like you, a real connoisseurs of travel, an afficionadiomus?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,611

    TimS said:

    I’m on a DLR at the moment, which is of course driverless and has been since its inception. It’s a completely segregated track system though, no level crossings.

    Point of order:

    The DLR is driverless, but it is not crewless. AIUI the trains cannot run in revenue service without a train captain (conductor) on board. Who has to be trained to be able to drive the trains manually (there are controls behind panels at either end), and (at least used to) have to open and close the doors at each station.

    Therefore the savings from being 'driverless' are not quite as much as you might expect.

    People discussing this really need to make distinctions between driverless and crewless: only the latter is truly automatic.
    Yes it does of course have a conductor. During quiet times of day, like just now, they like to come and check people have touched in with their cards too.

    It is to all intents and purposes driverless though. The braking, queuing and spacing of trains is all automated.

    A completely crewless train would of course be a health and safety disaster.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,193

    dixiedean said:

    Jean-Luc Mélenchon's left wing alliance has already fractured, so that leaves Le Pen as the largest opposition party in the new French parliament.

    https://twitter.com/annesaurat/status/1538871261383868416

    This is what I was alluding to last night.
    The PS are far closer to Macron than Melenchon. Possibly the Greens too. And as for the PCF working with a trot...
    It always was a marriage of convenience. And to be fair it worked for them all. The Left as a whole has far more representation now than they would have had sans NUPES.
    Must admit the unbridled, not to say demented, joy expressed by Mélenchon at having stuffed Macron has put me off him a bit.
    You LIKED him, hitherto?
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202

    Yokes said:

    Hello Kaliningrad, little known but historically significant in Europe for such a small spot

    Lithuania's blocking of certain goods coming in by rail from Russia is a bit disruptive short term, though readily overcome, but politically could be like chucking a stick of dynamite in through a door. Will make for an interesting few days to see if it sticks. In all honesty what is Russia really going to do?

    In Ukraine, Russia is still winning as its stands in the context of milestone objectives in the Donbas. It appears, however, some of the heavy kit from the West is starting to be used to effect. Fairly deep Russian supply & logistic operations are now being struck which is return to the fighting approach at the start of the 'Special Miltary Operation'. Its not only the range with which the kit can throw, its the range at which you can stand back and the mobility to scoot. Static Ukrainian artillery has taken a very large hit in the Donbas so it can help reduce the frequent local overmatch that Ukrainian forces are facing with less risk. For ther military geeks, the direct versus indirect fire approaches of Russia & Ukraine are being lab tested for everyone to see.

    Not sure if the MLRS are fielded yet by Ukraine but those things are not your bog standard rocket launcher. If they get to extensive use, you dont want to be under that umbrella. Russian troops have not yet faced something quite like it.

    As ever, thanks. One thing people over on ARRSE are saying is that a problem with the MLRS system is logistics: one launcher can get through a vast amount of ordnance in a day. I can see that becoming a big issue.

    Having the guns is all well and good: keeping them supplied with ammo is a very different issue.
    Artillery of any kind is huge on consumable spend. I assume the Americans and British have supplied the the cartridges and the support trucks.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,262
    In important global news, the largest freshwater fish ever recorded has been caught in the Mekong. It is not, surprisingly, one of the giant catfish but a freshwater stingray:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-61862169

    I once canoed with a friend down the Mekong from the upper reaches in a rickety local canoe. It's the most batshit crazy thing I've ever done.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,098
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Jean-Luc Mélenchon's left wing alliance has already fractured, so that leaves Le Pen as the largest opposition party in the new French parliament.

    https://twitter.com/annesaurat/status/1538871261383868416

    This is what I was alluding to last night.
    The PS are far closer to Macron than Melenchon. Possibly the Greens too. And as for the PCF working with a trot...
    It always was a marriage of convenience. And to be fair it worked for them all. The Left as a whole has far more representation now than they would have had sans NUPES.
    Must admit the unbridled, not to say demented, joy expressed by Mélenchon at having stuffed Macron has put me off him a bit.
    You LIKED him, hitherto?
    Not as much as you liked Putin, but un peu.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,999
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    I’m on a DLR at the moment, which is of course driverless and has been since its inception. It’s a completely segregated track system though, no level crossings.

    Point of order:

    The DLR is driverless, but it is not crewless. AIUI the trains cannot run in revenue service without a train captain (conductor) on board. Who has to be trained to be able to drive the trains manually (there are controls behind panels at either end), and (at least used to) have to open and close the doors at each station.

    Therefore the savings from being 'driverless' are not quite as much as you might expect.

    People discussing this really need to make distinctions between driverless and crewless: only the latter is truly automatic.
    Yes it does of course have a conductor. During quiet times of day, like just now, they like to come and check people have touched in with their cards too.

    It is to all intents and purposes driverless though. The braking, queuing and spacing of trains is all automated.

    A completely crewless train would of course be a health and safety disaster.
    But that's the point: because you still need a crew member on board, the cost savings are much reduced. A DLR train captain earns £42,000 a year (*). A tube driver earns £59,000. Whilst that is a £17,000 'saving' per train, the costs of full automation are in the many hundreds of millions.

    It basically is not worth the cost except on new and self-contained systems.

    (*) As far as I can tell.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    The former Governor of Missouri has made a crazy militaristic campaign video where he talks about "RINO Hunting": We are sick and tired of the Republicans in Name Only surrendering to Joe Biden & the radical Left.

    https://twitter.com/EricGreitens/status/1538876823978713089
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,262
    On the subject of containers, as I'm sure you all know there's a whole 'thing' about van life in the UK at the moment. It all went viral in lockdown and I know several people who have pursued this path.

    The most amusing video, to me, is this one. She's quite the gal but the opening makes me laugh every time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R4GMJZP2A8

    To be fair to her, she really did build the thing herself ... and even damaged those finger nails doing so
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,611
    Heathener said:

    In important global news, the largest freshwater fish ever recorded has been caught in the Mekong. It is not, surprisingly, one of the giant catfish but a freshwater stingray:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-61862169

    I once canoed with a friend down the Mekong from the upper reaches in a rickety local canoe. It's the most batshit crazy thing I've ever done.

    “The creatures outside looked from Leon to Heathener, and from Heathener to Leon, and from Leon to Heathener again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,262
    TimS said:

    Heathener said:

    In important global news, the largest freshwater fish ever recorded has been caught in the Mekong. It is not, surprisingly, one of the giant catfish but a freshwater stingray:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-61862169

    I once canoed with a friend down the Mekong from the upper reaches in a rickety local canoe. It's the most batshit crazy thing I've ever done.

    “The creatures outside looked from Leon to Heathener, and from Heathener to Leon, and from Leon to Heathener again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
    :smiley:

    Maybe that's why he irritates me so much!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I was deeply underwhelmed by the muppet representing the train operators on R4 this morning. Apparently, there is currently no wage offer on the table because any wage increase has to be tied to changes in working practices etc.

    I repeat, the day before a national rail strike, there is no offer on the table. ....

    Still can't quite believe it.

    Yes, I heard that - astonishing. The RMT have asked for 7% - high, but below inflation. The employers have refused to say what they will offer. It's hardly surprising that the union has not backed down, with nothing on the table.

    I reckon a settlement of around 5% could be agreed, not unreasonable. But for some reason neither the government nor the employers seem interested in a settlement.

    I'm old enough to remember the halcyon days when the government and its supporters were lauding the return of a high wage economy that would level up, post Brexit and Covid. However, that seems to have somewhat run out of steam once the lorry drivers and a few other groups had been paid off.
    Managers have to manage and if they think that they need to impose new work rosters on their staff that is fair enough. They should negotiate for a period of time to see if a mutually acceptable compromise can be reached and, if not, they should impose what they think is necessary for their business. I have no problem with this.

    What I do have a problem with is refusing to discuss a wage increase at a time of 9% inflation. That is just unacceptable. And to try to pretend that the Union is being unreasonable about this is just dishonest. A settlement between 5 and 7% in the present situation is there for the taking at which point the specific proposals for managing the business can be made.

    The government wants a fight. No other conclusion is possible. Shame on them.
    The government aren't involved, they aren't the management.

    If the unions want an agreement they should be talking to the management, not the government.

    Though perhaps the government should be saying that since the railways aren't operating or serving the purpose they're there for that the subsidies the taxpayers are paying will be reduced so there will be less money for pay settlements.
    I am pretty sure government would get involved were management to start closing the most unprofitable lines.

    What you're spouting is rhetoric rather than reality.
    What I'm saying is my own opinion, nothing more than that.

    If the government wants to pay to keep unprofitable lines open then the management should say we're closing them unless you pay us £x

    Of course then the government should have a choice to say "OK we'll pay it" or "OK close it" or "actually we'll get a different operator to do so instead". Just as employers with striking staff should have the choice between paying the staff what they want, firing the staff, or hiring other staff instead.

    In my view unprofitable lines should be allowed to die. The state shouldn't be choosing winners or losers.
    Well that's just ridiculous, as you would no longer have a network – only the most popular lines would stay open. Would you apply the same test to roads, where only the most used roads remained open? Road and rail networks are a cost of running an economy.
    Considering the entire road network is self-funded, yes I would.
    The entire road network is profitable, sure. But certain roads are undoubtedly unprofitable.

    If I remember correctly (and this may be wrong, and is certainly pre-covid, so is definitely out of date):

    Intercity services are generally profitable, with operators paying the government to run trains.

    The South East commuter network is unprofitable, but the margins are small and it's complicated by how revenues (& costs) are split between TFL services and railway operators.

    Everything else is highly unprofitable.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,750

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    I’m on a DLR at the moment, which is of course driverless and has been since its inception. It’s a completely segregated track system though, no level crossings.

    Point of order:

    The DLR is driverless, but it is not crewless. AIUI the trains cannot run in revenue service without a train captain (conductor) on board. Who has to be trained to be able to drive the trains manually (there are controls behind panels at either end), and (at least used to) have to open and close the doors at each station.

    Therefore the savings from being 'driverless' are not quite as much as you might expect.

    People discussing this really need to make distinctions between driverless and crewless: only the latter is truly automatic.
    Yes it does of course have a conductor. During quiet times of day, like just now, they like to come and check people have touched in with their cards too.

    It is to all intents and purposes driverless though. The braking, queuing and spacing of trains is all automated.

    A completely crewless train would of course be a health and safety disaster.
    But that's the point: because you still need a crew member on board, the cost savings are much reduced. A DLR train captain earns £42,000 a year (*). A tube driver earns £59,000. Whilst that is a £17,000 'saving' per train, the costs of full automation are in the many hundreds of millions.

    It basically is not worth the cost except on new and self-contained systems.

    (*) As far as I can tell.
    Presumably the TCs need route familiarity, too. Relatively easy on DLR, 38km total route length, with little change. But elsewhere ...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,609
    This story perhaps explains our troll from this morning.

    Our @nytvideo team went to Estonia to interview a dozen Ukrainian refugees who survived the siege of Mariupol & were then forced to resettle in Russia. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have been forcibly removed & pressured to take Russian citizenship.
    https://twitter.com/SimonOstrovsky/status/1538801580442636289
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,034
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Renting is an organised scam.

    Not enough houses = charge as much as they want or you're homeless

    Absolute bollox, you suggesting free houses for all, with unicorns in the gardens to boot
    No I am saying that £2000 a month for a flat in London is lunacy.
    Don’t pay it then
    And be homeless, ok great suggestion
    It's not where you'll want to spend the rest of your life but it's London for just over a grand a month.

    https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/61702238/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=network&campaign=rich_results

    Found a cupboard in Hillingdon for £1100 too.
    When I first moved to London I had 3 flat mates, I then upgraded to 2 flat mates - even after I bought - to afford the mortgage.

    I don’t think many normal people rent these flats on their own
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,609
    edited June 2022
    (Deleted on reflection.)
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    Ooh! I’ve just been given two tickets to see Diana Ross at the O2 on Friday. I’m told they were rather expensive tickets too - £250 each. I should probably try to sell them to pay next month’s rent, but that might upset the donor if they found out so I’m going!

    Diana Ross headlined a festival just outside our village last week...
    Childerley Hall? A friend of mine was singing on the main stage the night before.
    Yep, Childerley.

    My cousin is playing Glastonbury this year with the band he is in.

    https://www.ridingthelow.co.uk/
    Cool! I want to know which one of these you're related to..

    VOCALS : GOBSHITE RAMBO

    GUITAR : SKELEGOG

    GUITAR : BUTCH MYSTIQUE

    BASS : TACTILE SASQUATCH

    My friend is the Brand New Heavies' current singer. She got me backstage at the last gig of theirs I went to; I ended up drinking quite heavily with the very friendly band for about an hour.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,193
    TimS said:

    Heathener said:

    In important global news, the largest freshwater fish ever recorded has been caught in the Mekong. It is not, surprisingly, one of the giant catfish but a freshwater stingray:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-61862169

    I once canoed with a friend down the Mekong from the upper reaches in a rickety local canoe. It's the most batshit crazy thing I've ever done.

    “The creatures outside looked from Leon to Heathener, and from Heathener to Leon, and from Leon to Heathener again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
    If “canoeing down the Mekong” is the most “batshit crazy thing” @Heathener has ever done, I suggest there is quite a difference between us
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,193
    OK this maybe a first

    TripAdvisor is completely right. The food here in “SOVATS VOZNI” is brilliant. Simple Caucasus wild mushrooms, lightly fried in egg and some wild herbs. Looks like tripe….

    Yet sensational. You see mushroom sellers hawking these shrooms all along the forest roads here. I can understand why
This discussion has been closed.