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Penny Mordaunt now favourite in next CON leader betting – politicalbetting.com

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    Applicant said:

    Bairstow needs a single off his next delivery to beat GL Jessop's 120 year old record.

    Dot. Zaltzman: "Gilbert Jessop fans are punching the air right now".
    [Imgur](https://imgur.com/9MMHCMy)

    [img]https://i.imgur.com/9MMHCMy.jpg[/img]
    View post on imgur.com
    https://imgur.com/9MMHCMy

    ..
    I still can’t get imgur pasting here since their upgrade 😫

    Free Pic of Tory Leader favourite in her swim wear to anyone who gives me a solution 😋

    If on PC right click on the image in imgur then open image in new tab. It then opens as a .jpg or .jpeg and can be copied and pasted into vanilla
    https://i.imgur.com/9MMHCMy.jpeg

  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    The gutless six. Zahawi might have had a chance but it'll have to be someone not currently in the Cabinet. Every one of them are soiled
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    edited June 2022

    Cookie said:

    Cricket sounds so sedate on sky, but RAUCOUS on TMS.

    Sky don't really appear to much care about sport.

    I know this is a ridiculous statement. I know sport is their raison d'etre. But - unless its football - they just don't seem that excited about it.
    I remember the first time Sky had the Ryder Cup coverage, and what, on the BBC, had always seemed one of the most fun-packed and eventful sporting events of the year was presented with all the enthusiasm of a traffic count.
    Sky's coverage of sport is becoming very stale and outdated, including football.

    One thing that is good on Sky's coverage of T20, they actually get current T20 elite players in the commentary box, rather than bloody Vaughan, Tuffers, etc who are absolutely f##king clueless about T20. Sadiq Mahmood the other night was really interesting basically putting the established commentators right about things like no you don't run a single there.
    The Test Match Special coverage on the BBC has been absolutely spot on. Great to listen to.
    Depends...do you want informed analysis or "entertainment". Its not informed analysis, its morons, totally clueless about modern cricket.

    Sky to their credit have realised they had too many who were clueless about modern cricket and shuffled them off (Botham, Holding, Bumble), replacing them generally with much more informed individuals.
    Hahaha. What a load of absolute tripe. The BBC commentators have probably forgotten more than the Sky team ever knew. Nothing comes close to TMS coverage. Period.
    They probably have, but the problem is the modern game is very different to when players like Botham or Tuffers were playing.
    Test cricket hasn’t changed that much. I think @FrancisUrquhart is right about T20 coverage, and that won’t change until they get more recent, or active players much more involved in coverage.
    Test cricket hasn't?

    That hour after tea would have happened in Boycott's day would it?

    Test cricket absolutely has evolved thanks to the developments in the very short game.
    I’d suggest that today was the exception. I give you last year at lords as the counter example. The pitch has played a huge role in allowing such a performance. Most 5th day wickets would not be that true, and with that much bounce, after tea on day 5.

    If you cast your mind back some decades the WI would play like this, and the great Aussie sides. In 2005 England scored 400 in one day of the ashes.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947
    Went for a walk when Root was out. Thought I'd be either back for the denouement, or avoid a spectacular, depressing collapse.
    Heard the last ball.
    Ill-timed.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,141

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I wonder how many times a team has scored over 500 in a test match, batting 1st, and gone on to lose?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    dixiedean said:

    Went for a walk when Root was out. Thought I'd be either back for the denouement, or avoid a spectacular, depressing collapse.
    Heard the last ball.
    Ill-timed.

    45 minutes till the Bairstow show on BBC2
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,880
    Roger said:

    Far more important the Scots are finally getting their act together. If the Eu have given a provisional nod to Ukraine that their request to join Scotland (and Northern Ireland) must be a shoo-in.

    Circumstances have never been better. The UK economy is going pear shaped Johnson is less popular than Thatcher and the Ruanda policy is sucking Scotland into something reputationally so damaging it'll take years to recover from.

    Just do it. This time there is no downside.

    "Ruanda"

    I rarely mention typos. but somehow that one says it all
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    kinabalu said:

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I wonder how many times a team has scored over 500 in a test match, batting 1st, and gone on to lose?
    Can’t be many. England got rolled in 2006 in Aussie in similar circs, after a great first innings, but we batted second I think.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    Keir Starmer Red Wall Net Approval Rating (12-13 June).

    Approve 30% (+2)
    Disapprove 33% (-2)
    Net -3% (+4)

    Changes +/- 6 June

    I thought he was hated

    His makeover as Sir Beer Korma is helping him look like a man of the people.
    The thousand-pound plus football tickets don't, though. ;)

    A man of the people - as long as the people are insanely wealthy...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    kinabalu said:

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I wonder how many times a team has scored over 500 in a test match, batting 1st, and gone on to lose?
    I always remember this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006–07_Ashes_series#2nd_Test
  • Options
    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,976
    edited June 2022
    Roger said:

    Far more important the Scots are finally getting their act together. If the Eu have given a provisional nod to Ukraine that their request to join Scotland (and Northern Ireland) must be a shoo-in.

    Circumstances have never been better. The UK economy is going pear shaped Johnson is less popular than Thatcher and the Ruanda policy is sucking Scotland into something reputationally so damaging it'll take years to recover from.

    Just do it. This time there is no downside.

    You’ve been reading the easy-read version then?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    kinabalu said:

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I wonder how many times a team has scored over 500 in a test match, batting 1st, and gone on to lose?
    Can’t be many. England got rolled in 2006 in Aussie in similar circs, after a great first innings, but we batted second I think.
    We batted first. And declared.

    See my link.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855

    Cookie said:

    Cricket sounds so sedate on sky, but RAUCOUS on TMS.

    Sky don't really appear to much care about sport.

    I know this is a ridiculous statement. I know sport is their raison d'etre. But - unless its football - they just don't seem that excited about it.
    I remember the first time Sky had the Ryder Cup coverage, and what, on the BBC, had always seemed one of the most fun-packed and eventful sporting events of the year was presented with all the enthusiasm of a traffic count.
    Sky's coverage of sport is becoming very stale and outdated, including football.

    One thing that is good on Sky's coverage of T20, they actually get current T20 elite players in the commentary box, rather than bloody Vaughan, Tuffers, etc who are absolutely f##king clueless about T20. Sadiq Mahmood the other night was really interesting basically putting the established commentators right about things like no you don't run a single there.
    The Test Match Special coverage on the BBC has been absolutely spot on. Great to listen to.
    Depends...do you want informed analysis or "entertainment". Its not informed analysis, its morons, totally clueless about modern cricket.

    Sky to their credit have realised they had too many who were clueless about modern cricket and shuffled them off (Botham, Holding, Bumble), replacing them generally with much more informed individuals.
    Hahaha. What a load of absolute tripe. The BBC commentators have probably forgotten more than the Sky team ever knew. Nothing comes close to TMS coverage. Period.
    They probably have, but the problem is the modern game is very different to when players like Botham or Tuffers were playing.
    Test cricket hasn’t changed that much. I think @FrancisUrquhart is right about T20 coverage, and that won’t change until they get more recent, or active players much more involved in coverage.
    Test cricket hasn't?

    That hour after tea would have happened in Boycott's day would it?

    Test cricket absolutely has evolved thanks to the developments in the very short game.
    I’d suggest that today was the exception. I give you last year at lords as the counter example. The pitch has played a huge role in allowing such a performance. Most 5th day wickets would not be that true, and with that much bounce, after tea on day 5.

    If you cast your mind back some decades the WI would play like this, and the great Aussie sides. In 2005 England scored 400 in one day of the ashes.
    Brings back bad memories of ‘90s England bowlers being smashed for sixes all over the Caribbean.
  • Options
    Do those in the Red Wall believe the Government in the United Kingdom is currently taking the right measures to address the cost-of-living crisis?

    Yes 19% (-2)
    No 66% (+2)

    Changes +/- 6 June.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299

    kinabalu said:

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I wonder how many times a team has scored over 500 in a test match, batting 1st, and gone on to lose?
    Can’t be many. England got rolled in 2006 in Aussie in similar circs, after a great first innings, but we batted second I think.
    Adelaide 2006. We batted first. Collingwood score a double century.
  • Options
    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,141

    Cookie said:

    Cricket sounds so sedate on sky, but RAUCOUS on TMS.

    Sky don't really appear to much care about sport.

    I know this is a ridiculous statement. I know sport is their raison d'etre. But - unless its football - they just don't seem that excited about it.
    I remember the first time Sky had the Ryder Cup coverage, and what, on the BBC, had always seemed one of the most fun-packed and eventful sporting events of the year was presented with all the enthusiasm of a traffic count.
    Sky's coverage of sport is becoming very stale and outdated, including football.

    One thing that is good on Sky's coverage of T20, they actually get current T20 elite players in the commentary box, rather than bloody Vaughan, Tuffers, etc who are absolutely f##king clueless about T20. Sadiq Mahmood the other night was really interesting basically putting the established commentators right about things like no you don't run a single there.
    The Test Match Special coverage on the BBC has been absolutely spot on. Great to listen to.
    Depends...do you want informed analysis or "entertainment". Its not informed analysis, its morons, totally clueless about modern cricket.

    Sky to their credit have realised they had too many who were clueless about modern cricket and shuffled them off (Botham, Holding, Bumble), replacing them generally with much more informed individuals.
    Hahaha. What a load of absolute tripe. The BBC commentators have probably forgotten more than the Sky team ever knew. Nothing comes close to TMS coverage. Period.
    They probably have, but the problem is the modern game is very different to when players like Botham or Tuffers were playing.
    Test cricket hasn’t changed that much. I think @FrancisUrquhart is right about T20 coverage, and that won’t change until they get more recent, or active players much more involved in coverage.
    Test cricket hasn't?

    That hour after tea would have happened in Boycott's day would it?

    Test cricket absolutely has evolved thanks to the developments in the very short game.
    A genuine Alanis Morissette this. Too much white ball cricket means we can't grind it out now with the red ball in a test. All have a massive moan. But it's white ball cricket that has made this sort of test win far more likely than it used to be. All give a massive cheer.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299
    TimS said:

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I was just following it online while working and even there it was remarkable. Every time I looked up we were 12 or 16 runs further on.
    It was utterly brutal. If that hour was a tank battle it was the Battle of 73 Easting or the Battle of Norfolk.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,251
    TimS said:

    Party Trustworthiness (12-13 June):

    What % of the Red Wall fairly or significantly trusts (the Conservatives | Labour) to deliver on:

    National Security (43% | 41%)
    The NHS (33% | 50%)
    Taxation (30% | 40%)
    Housing (29% | 46%)
    Levelling Up (26% | 43%)

    Those are terrible numbers for any party looking to hold these seats

    Given the pretty recent legacy of Corbyn it's remarkable that Labour are only 2% behind on national security. Even more so during a period of conflict in Ukraine where the UK has generally done a good job. It just shows how much damage the Tories have done to themselves across the board.
    This shows why Corbyn and now Starmer should have attacked decades of Conservative defence cuts instead of giving them a free ride.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Far more important the Scots are finally getting their act together. If the Eu have given a provisional nod to Ukraine that their request to join Scotland (and Northern Ireland) must be a shoo-in.

    Circumstances have never been better. The UK economy is going pear shaped Johnson is less popular than Thatcher and the Ruanda policy is sucking Scotland into something reputationally so damaging it'll take years to recover from.

    Just do it. This time there is no downside.

    "Ruanda"

    I rarely mention typos. but somehow that one says it all
    Well, it is somewhere in Africa. You can't expect Roger to be au fait with the natives.

    Maybe, he was starring in this film:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbcob9qYivI

    (the English title / trailer is far more PC than the French one....)
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    kinabalu said:

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I wonder how many times a team has scored over 500 in a test match, batting 1st, and gone on to lose?
    This was the 6th highest 1st-innings score by a team that went on to lose, according to the Sky commentary.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited June 2022

    Applicant said:

    Bairstow needs a single off his next delivery to beat GL Jessop's 120 year old record.

    Dot. Zaltzman: "Gilbert Jessop fans are punching the air right now".
    [Imgur](https://imgur.com/9MMHCMy)

    [img]https://i.imgur.com/9MMHCMy.jpg[/img]
    View post on imgur.com
    https://imgur.com/9MMHCMy

    ..
    I still can’t get imgur pasting here since their upgrade 😫

    Free Pic of Tory Leader favourite in her swim wear to anyone who gives me a solution 😋
    If on PC right click on the image in imgur then open image in new tab. It then opens as a .jpg or .jpeg and can be copied and pasted into vanilla
    https://i.imgur.com/9MMHCMy.jpeg



    You win one penny 🙂

  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947
    Test cricket's been speeding up since the Sixties. The nadir of dullness. This coincides with one day cricket and has continued apace. It wasn't always that slow though.
    Bradman scored extremely rapidly, without ever playing it in the air.
    And Gilbert Jessop was 1902.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,141

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Thinks he can recreate the dynamic that won him the last election in order to win the next one. Thinks wrong.

    I used to be wary of this but I'm much less so now. It's looking more desperate than inspired.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,141
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Far more important the Scots are finally getting their act together. If the Eu have given a provisional nod to Ukraine that their request to join Scotland (and Northern Ireland) must be a shoo-in.

    Circumstances have never been better. The UK economy is going pear shaped Johnson is less popular than Thatcher and the Ruanda policy is sucking Scotland into something reputationally so damaging it'll take years to recover from.

    Just do it. This time there is no downside.

    "Ruanda"

    I rarely mention typos. but somehow that one says it all
    That's the local spelling no?
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    kinabalu said:

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I wonder how many times a team has scored over 500 in a test match, batting 1st, and gone on to lose?
    This was the 4th highest losing first innings in Test History.
    It was also a new record for boundaries in a test match
    It was also the 2nd highest aggregate score in a Test in England
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Boris Johnson Red Wall Net Approval Rating (12-13 June).

    Approve 32% (+2)
    Disapprove 50% (+1)
    Net -18% (+1)

    Changes +/- 6 June

    Hello Horse and hope all is well.

    So more people approve of Boris in the RW seats than SKS :) ?
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I wonder how many times a team has scored over 500 in a test match, batting 1st, and gone on to lose?
    This was the 6th highest 1st-innings score by a team that went on to lose, according to the Sky commentary.
    Being very pedantic, Kinabula said "batting first", in which case it's the fourth highest to go on to lose (and third if you ignore timeless tests - one of the higher ones finished on Day 6).

    The Sky stat includes those batting second.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,922
    edited June 2022

    kinabalu said:

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I wonder how many times a team has scored over 500 in a test match, batting 1st, and gone on to lose?
    Can’t be many. England got rolled in 2006 in Aussie in similar circs, after a great first innings, but we batted second I think.
    That was the Collingwood double hundred test, we got 551/6 declared batting first then rolled for 129 after a 513 ftom Australia and they knocked them off 4 down
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Test cricket's been speeding up since the Sixties. The nadir of dullness. This coincides with one day cricket and has continued apace. It wasn't always that slow though.
    Bradman scored extremely rapidly, without ever playing it in the air.
    And Gilbert Jessop was 1902.

    I’m glad I posted this Jessop bloke - thanks to Blanche. He looks like he wants to flipping hit it out ground

    What an utter mess I’ve made of this thread
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,832
    Evening all :)

    Mixed sporting fortunes for the southern hemisphere today - poor for the kiwis at Nottingham but a superb performance by the Aussie sprinter at Ascot.

    On the two seemingly key matters of the day - first, Northern Ireland. I don't normally comment on these matters because I am ignorant of the detail and the context. I gave the province no thought at all in 2016 - that's my fault.

    The UK leaving the EU has meant, I believe, a genuine economic divergence between us and the Republic since the latter achieved independence. They followed us into the EEC in 1973 and prior to that I had the sense of a fairly integrated economic relationship.

    As for the Rwanda issue, irrespective of the ludicrous position of a Government pledged to net zero and sustainability allowing a virtually empty flight to Kigali (which smacks more of political vanity than anything approaching common sense), I'm presuming the aim continues to be to dissuade those who seek economic asylum in the UK from so doing. I fear our language and wealth will always be a draw (whether in itself or as a gateway to America) so short of switching to Esperanto and impoverishing ourselves (or allowing Sunak to do it for us) we will always have a problem.

    I understand "out of sight, out of mind" and Kigali meets that in spades - I'm also slightly dubious given our own obvious labour shortages whether the tenor of the migration debate might not have changed even if the politics haven't.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,793
    Is there any evidence that the Rwanda plan has any popular support?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    I still have hope the next election is coming and Johnson won’t be PM forever. The people of this great nation are not, on the whole, wicked. They believe in the rule of law, and they have seen through Johnson.

    Things are never as bad or as good as they seem.
  • Options

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    So what's your solution to the boat people?
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,922
    dixiedean said:

    Test cricket's been speeding up since the Sixties. The nadir of dullness. This coincides with one day cricket and has continued apace. It wasn't always that slow though.
    Bradman scored extremely rapidly, without ever playing it in the air.
    And Gilbert Jessop was 1902.

    Indeed the fastest first class hundred in county cricket was 1920 in 35 minutes by Percy George Herbert Fender who later had involvement in cooking up Bodyline with Douglas Jardine
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    So what's your solution to the boat people?
    If you think leaving the ECHR “solves” the boat people you are an idiot.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,832
    darkage said:

    Is there any evidence that the Rwanda plan has any popular support?

    @HYUFD has put up polling showing 44-40 in favour with big majorities in favour among Conservative and LEAVE voters (who are for some the only voters who matter).
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,922
    stodge said:

    darkage said:

    Is there any evidence that the Rwanda plan has any popular support?

    @HYUFD has put up polling showing 44-40 in favour with big majorities in favour among Conservative and LEAVE voters (who are for some the only voters who matter).
    YouGov poll, details on their site. slight advantage in favour but amongst strongly held opinion, strongly against is ahead by a few points.
  • Options
    SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,248
    edited June 2022
    darkage said:

    Is there any evidence that the Rwanda plan has any popular support?

    Yes - a YouGov poll on Monday suggested 44% in favour, 40% against, 16% don't know.

    Of course, much will depend on success or failure. That's a fairly even divide, and you can see it shifting rather a lot. My personal view is it is quite likely to be an expensive failure, but I accept that my opinion on the morality of it probably biases me.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    Which western countries do you think are going in the right direction?
  • Options

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    So what's your solution to the boat people?
    Isn't your point there just, "Something must be done. This is something. We must do this."?
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    Which western countries do you think are going in the right direction?
    Few to none.

    The liberal order which I took for granted growing up is under concerted attack.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Mixed sporting fortunes for the southern hemisphere today - poor for the kiwis at Nottingham but a superb performance by the Aussie sprinter at Ascot.

    On the two seemingly key matters of the day - first, Northern Ireland. I don't normally comment on these matters because I am ignorant of the detail and the context. I gave the province no thought at all in 2016 - that's my fault.

    The UK leaving the EU has meant, I believe, a genuine economic divergence between us and the Republic since the latter achieved independence. They followed us into the EEC in 1973 and prior to that I had the sense of a fairly integrated economic relationship.

    As for the Rwanda issue, irrespective of the ludicrous position of a Government pledged to net zero and sustainability allowing a virtually empty flight to Kigali (which smacks more of political vanity than anything approaching common sense), I'm presuming the aim continues to be to dissuade those who seek economic asylum in the UK from so doing. I fear our language and wealth will always be a draw (whether in itself or as a gateway to America) so short of switching to Esperanto and impoverishing ourselves (or allowing Sunak to do it for us) we will always have a problem.

    I understand "out of sight, out of mind" and Kigali meets that in spades - I'm also slightly dubious given our own obvious labour shortages whether the tenor of the migration debate might not have changed even if the politics haven't.

    They're both just performative nonsense to shore up Big Dog's ever dwindling band of admirers by owning the Libs.
    Best to just ignore.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    Which western countries do you think are going in the right direction?
    You mean rotating in a counterclockwise direction?
  • Options

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    Is the Australian Labor Party wicked for having the same policy?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,252
    darkage said:

    Is there any evidence that the Rwanda plan has any popular support?

    44-40 in favour via YouGov
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    Which western countries do you think are going in the right direction?
    Few to none.

    The liberal order which I took for granted growing up is under concerted attack.
    I fear too many have taken their eyes of the ball, focussing too much on narrow interest groups (those things that get called woke) at the expense of defending the basics of modern liberal democracy.
    That said, the world of 2022 is amazingly better than the world of say 1997, a generation ago.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    So what's your solution to the boat people?
    If you think leaving the ECHR “solves” the boat people you are an idiot.
    Solution an unfortunate word in this context
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    Is the Australian Labor Party wicked for having the same policy?
    It is news to me that the ALP wish to leave the ECHR.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    IshmaelZ said:

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    So what's your solution to the boat people?
    If you think leaving the ECHR “solves” the boat people you are an idiot.
    Solution an unfortunate word in this context
    Specially if it’s the final one.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited June 2022

    darkage said:

    Is there any evidence that the Rwanda plan has any popular support?

    Yes - a YouGov poll on Monday suggested 44% in favour, 40% against, 16% don't know.

    Of course, much will depend on success or failure. That's a fairly even divide, and you can see it shifting rather a lot. My personal view is it is quite likely to be an expensive failure, but I accept that my opinion on the morality of it probably biases me.
    It will probably have the same effect as a similar policy had on Australia. From being thought of internationally as reasonably civilised it's now seen as pretty Redneck.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    IshmaelZ said:

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    So what's your solution to the boat people?
    If you think leaving the ECHR “solves” the boat people you are an idiot.
    Solution an unfortunate word in this context
    My thought too but it’s always poor form to Godwinise.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,252

    darkage said:

    Is there any evidence that the Rwanda plan has any popular support?

    Yes - a YouGov poll on Monday suggested 44% in favour, 40% against, 16% don't know.

    Of course, much will depend on success or failure. That's a fairly even divide, and you can see it shifting rather a lot. My personal view is it is quite likely to be an expensive failure, but I accept that my opinion on the morality of it probably biases me.
    The answer will be in it's effect once implemented
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947

    dixiedean said:

    Test cricket's been speeding up since the Sixties. The nadir of dullness. This coincides with one day cricket and has continued apace. It wasn't always that slow though.
    Bradman scored extremely rapidly, without ever playing it in the air.
    And Gilbert Jessop was 1902.

    Indeed the fastest first class hundred in county cricket was 1920 in 35 minutes by Percy George Herbert Fender who later had involvement in cooking up Bodyline with Douglas Jardine
    Which was the first use of video analysis. Bowling to a set plan and selection based on the plan, not the other way round. Completely revolutionary field placings (now illegal).
    The game hasn't changed that much.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    So what's your solution to the boat people?
    If you think leaving the ECHR “solves” the boat people you are an idiot.
    Solution an unfortunate word in this context
    So if you were PM what would you do instead?
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Far more important the Scots are finally getting their act together. If the Eu have given a provisional nod to Ukraine that their request to join Scotland (and Northern Ireland) must be a shoo-in.

    Circumstances have never been better. The UK economy is going pear shaped Johnson is less popular than Thatcher and the Ruanda policy is sucking Scotland into something reputationally so damaging it'll take years to recover from.

    Just do it. This time there is no downside.

    "Ruanda"

    I rarely mention typos. but somehow that one says it all
    That's the local spelling no?
    Neau
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,922
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Test cricket's been speeding up since the Sixties. The nadir of dullness. This coincides with one day cricket and has continued apace. It wasn't always that slow though.
    Bradman scored extremely rapidly, without ever playing it in the air.
    And Gilbert Jessop was 1902.

    Indeed the fastest first class hundred in county cricket was 1920 in 35 minutes by Percy George Herbert Fender who later had involvement in cooking up Bodyline with Douglas Jardine
    Which was the first use of video analysis. Bowling to a set plan and selection based on the plan, not the other way round. Completely revolutionary field placings (now illegal).
    The game hasn't changed that much.
    Yes, traditional leg theory converted to fast bowling. Fender had noted Bradman was very uncomfortable against Larwood on a 5th day pitch in the 1930 tour to short pitched bowling. Tbf i think most people on a 5th day uncovered pitch against one of our quickest ever bowlers might have baulked
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,880
    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130
    Leon said:

    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?

    Rwanda?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130

    Leon said:

    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?

    Rwanda?
    Ha! I was too slow...
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,922
    Leon said:

    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?

    Baku always Baku
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,966
    Leon said:

    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?

    Where haven’t you been before?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    MrEd said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Far more important the Scots are finally getting their act together. If the Eu have given a provisional nod to Ukraine that their request to join Scotland (and Northern Ireland) must be a shoo-in.

    Circumstances have never been better. The UK economy is going pear shaped Johnson is less popular than Thatcher and the Ruanda policy is sucking Scotland into something reputationally so damaging it'll take years to recover from.

    Just do it. This time there is no downside.

    "Ruanda"

    I rarely mention typos. but somehow that one says it all
    Well, it is somewhere in Africa. You can't expect Roger to be au fait with the natives.

    Maybe, he was starring in this film:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbcob9qYivI

    (the English title / trailer is far more PC than the French one....)
    That's quite funny. I once had to do a poster with two 'James Bonds' standing either side of an 'Ursula Andress'. After I finished shooting one of the male models said '

    'That was really embarrassing!'.

    'Why?' I asked.

    'I put my hand down her bikini bottom'. He said

    'Did she complain?' I asked.

    'No' he said. 'But the other guy already had his hand there'
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?

    You’re two days too late to see the F1 race in Baku!

    Which means the place probably looks at its best.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Test cricket's been speeding up since the Sixties. The nadir of dullness. This coincides with one day cricket and has continued apace. It wasn't always that slow though.
    Bradman scored extremely rapidly, without ever playing it in the air.
    And Gilbert Jessop was 1902.

    Indeed the fastest first class hundred in county cricket was 1920 in 35 minutes by Percy George Herbert Fender who later had involvement in cooking up Bodyline with Douglas Jardine
    Which was the first use of video analysis. Bowling to a set plan and selection based on the plan, not the other way round. Completely revolutionary field placings (now illegal).
    The game hasn't changed that much.
    Yes, traditional leg theory converted to fast bowling. Fender had noted Bradman was very uncomfortable against Larwood on a 5th day pitch in the 1930 tour to short pitched bowling. Tbf i think most people on a 5th day uncovered pitch against one of our quickest ever bowlers might have baulked
    Always thought it was remarkably sweet that Larwood emigrated to Australia.
    Having almost caused them to break off diplomatic relations.
    Another way the game hasn't changed.
    Aussies whinge when getting beaten.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,252
    I had no idea that this EU member country is acting much as UK but have not heard any condemnation of this scheme on here

    Denmark's 'zero' refugees policy

    As part of its 2019 election mandate, Denmark's ruling Social Democratic party said a core policy was to process asylum applications outside the European Union. The government has a "zero" refugees policy and started revoking residence permits from Syrian refugees last year.

    In June 2021, legislation was passed allowing refugees to be sent to a country outside the EU to be processed and Denmark has had talks with countries in and outside the EU about a potential arrangement, potentially involving Tunisia and/or Ethiopia.

    Last year, Denmark's immigration minister Mattias Tesfaye signed a three-year memorandum of understanding with Rwanda, which led to speculation that a processing facility would be opened in east Africa.

    The Danish government has agreed to provide funding for any asylum system.

    Mr Tesfaye has recently said Denmark is in talks with Rwanda to transfer asylum seekers to east Africa.

    According to Zachary Whyte, Associate Professor at the Center for Advanced Migration Studies (AMIS) at the University of Copenhagen, who wrote in a recent blog post: "The Danish plans involve an initial screening of asylum seekers for vulnerability, before they are transferred to a third country, which could be Rwanda.

    "Their asylum cases will be processed there. If they are recognised as refugees, they will be settled there. If not, their possible deportation will be the responsibility of that third country."

    Mr Tesfaye said the current system is "unsustainable" and over 22,000 people have died trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea, adding the UK agreement is a "good step forward".

    "We are in dialogue with Rwanda, and we have a good cooperation based on a broad partnership, but we do not have an agreement on transfer of asylum seekers," he added.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,375

    darkage said:

    Is there any evidence that the Rwanda plan has any popular support?

    Yes - a YouGov poll on Monday suggested 44% in favour, 40% against, 16% don't know.

    Of course, much will depend on success or failure. That's a fairly even divide, and you can see it shifting rather a lot. My personal view is it is quite likely to be an expensive failure, but I accept that my opinion on the morality of it probably biases me.
    Put it this way.

    The number of people leaving on an airplane today is in single figures. Perhaps low single figures (I heard seven this morning, I don't know now.)

    The number of people arriving on small boats today was 250.

    Now let's be clear- for those seven, it's a really really terrible thing to happen in their already terrible lives. The fact that my government is doing this makes me less proud to be British.

    But the cold hard number is that 7 is 3 percent of 250. And a 97% chance of success is what would normally be described as a pretty sure thing. And the odds are better than that really, becuase there will be more boats tomorrow and the next day.

    There are lots of ways of stopping the evil of the small boat trafficers. The trouble is that they all involve letting more people in (by making the legal routes available) or, worse than that, co-operating with France. And since the UK isn't prepared to do either of those things, and ideally many British people wouldn't admit anyone at all, the government is reduced to shouting and acting like a thug.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,880

    Leon said:

    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?

    Where haven’t you been before?
    I’ve not seen Armenia outside Yerevan. But I’ve not been to Uzbekistan either

    Fuck it. Both!
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    £1 Million a passenger. Boris looking pretty embarrassed
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,984
    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/06/14/revealed-brexit-hating-libdem-husband-of-controversial-cadwalladr-decision-judge/

    I'm tempted to say that they could have chosen a better judge to preside over the Banks v Cadwalladr case, but then I suspect many judges would have such conflicts of interest.

    That needs to be appealed

    Saying that you can say anything to your loyal followers because they already believe any old garbage about your adversaries is not a good development
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,292
    If Boris removes us from the ECHR then a return to hanging cannot be far off. I find it inconceivable that Boris could resist it.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?

    Rwanda.
    Like all SSA, Rwanda is a paradise for rich white men (and if you are white you are by definition rich by local standards.) When you are non white, destitute and with no form of local support network, it must be hell.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947
    edited June 2022

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Test cricket's been speeding up since the Sixties. The nadir of dullness. This coincides with one day cricket and has continued apace. It wasn't always that slow though.
    Bradman scored extremely rapidly, without ever playing it in the air.
    And Gilbert Jessop was 1902.

    Indeed the fastest first class hundred in county cricket was 1920 in 35 minutes by Percy George Herbert Fender who later had involvement in cooking up Bodyline with Douglas Jardine
    Which was the first use of video analysis. Bowling to a set plan and selection based on the plan, not the other way round. Completely revolutionary field placings (now illegal).
    The game hasn't changed that much.
    Yes, traditional leg theory converted to fast bowling. Fender had noted Bradman was very uncomfortable against Larwood on a 5th day pitch in the 1930 tour to short pitched bowling. Tbf i think most people on a 5th day uncovered pitch against one of our quickest ever bowlers might have baulked
    "With a prayer and a curse they prepare for the hearse,
    Undertakers look on with broad grins.
    Oh, they'd be a lot calmer in Ned Kelly's armour
    When Larwood the wrecker begins."

    5 feet 7 I've just learned.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544
    IshmaelZ said:

    🔺 Update: Boris Johnson has opened the door to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights to make it easier to remove illegal migrants from the UK

    Oh goody

    Link?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rwanda-flights-come-up-with-your-own-plan-liz-truss-tells-church-critics-h3m0n7l3h

    I find it difficult to describe the PM as anything other than wicked, and the UK as fucked.
    So what's your solution to the boat people?
    If you think leaving the ECHR “solves” the boat people you are an idiot.
    Solution an unfortunate word in this context
    Madagascar was mooted by the Nazis before the Wansee conference.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    .
    kinabalu said:

    That hour after tea will live long in the memory.

    I wonder how many times a team has scored over 500 in a test match, batting 1st, and gone on to lose?
    Eight, of which this was the fourth highest.

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_fielding_first=1;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=team_score;result=2;template=results;type=team;view=innings
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    Is it true? Just two left?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?

    Where haven’t you been before?
    I’ve not seen Armenia outside Yerevan. But I’ve not been to Uzbekistan either

    Fuck it. Both!
    Kazakhstan might be an idea before Vlad moves on to his next target.
  • Options
    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/wakefield-by-election-boris-johnson-conservative-voters-1681471

    These wounds are only just beginning to heal, he said, and he is confident Sir Keir Starmer is the man to help with this – even if he admits he would like to see “more charisma” from the Labour leader.

    “But Starmer is a serious political person who wants to do something for this country rather than for themselves. And that appeals to me.”

    The threat of low voter turnout is not due to a lack of politics in Wakefield. Market traders are quick to praise the Government support through the Covid-19 pandemic, but talk of their concern over the rising price of fuel.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,922
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Test cricket's been speeding up since the Sixties. The nadir of dullness. This coincides with one day cricket and has continued apace. It wasn't always that slow though.
    Bradman scored extremely rapidly, without ever playing it in the air.
    And Gilbert Jessop was 1902.

    Indeed the fastest first class hundred in county cricket was 1920 in 35 minutes by Percy George Herbert Fender who later had involvement in cooking up Bodyline with Douglas Jardine
    Which was the first use of video analysis. Bowling to a set plan and selection based on the plan, not the other way round. Completely revolutionary field placings (now illegal).
    The game hasn't changed that much.
    Yes, traditional leg theory converted to fast bowling. Fender had noted Bradman was very uncomfortable against Larwood on a 5th day pitch in the 1930 tour to short pitched bowling. Tbf i think most people on a 5th day uncovered pitch against one of our quickest ever bowlers might have baulked
    Always thought it was remarkably sweet that Larwood emigrated to Australia.
    Having almost caused them to break off diplomatic relations.
    Another way the game hasn't changed.
    Aussies whinge when getting beaten.
    Well even Jardine himself ended up on tolerable terms with Jack Fingleton etc. It was only Bradman who acted like a baby for the rest of his life and refused to talk about Jardine or Bodyline.
    The year after Bodyline the Windies toured and Constantine and Martindale tormented us with bodyline, Jardine yold Les Ames to stay off strike and hed deal with 'this nonsense' himself.
    Basically he spent 5 hours on his tip toes often dropping it off his chin one handed to score 127. Often sited as the best innings ever played against fast leg theory (alongside Fingletons 187 in Bodyline series)
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,984
    rcs1000 said:

    Keystone said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    I know we're unlikely to get any joined up thinking from this deeply unserious government, but what actually is their claim for Rwanda?

    Is that Rwanda is so horrible, would-be users of people smugglers - almost 'entirely genuine asylum seekers escaping persecution - will choose torture or death instead?

    Or is that Rwanda is kind, like Britain but with more sunshine? The asylum seekers will be well looked after - the people smugglers are doing a useful job?

    It’s because it is safe, but fairly grim

    If you’re an asylum seeker (which most of them are not, they are economic migrants) then you would be happy with safety alone. If they are not happy, then it was something else that attracted them all the way to the UK, it wasn’t “asylum” per se

    Do it, Priti, do it
    One of the people scheduled to be deported is a 19-year old Iranian who has 2 brothers, 4 uncles and their families, all of them British citizens, living here. That is why he is here.

    Now, tell me why it is a good thing to deport him to Rwanda.
    To discourage others

    Every case will have a bleeding heart story attached. There is no happy or easy solution to this. But the best solution - for everyone - is the Australian solution. We cannot just let them all in, that’s giving up all control of our borders and will encourage yet more to come, 100,000s a year

    Oz shows that you have to be tough for a few months, then they stop. I profoundly doubt the UKG has the bollocks to do an Oz. so we will yield, and the problem will get worse, and the next time around the dilemma will be even more acute
    You do not discourage anyone by deporting one individual. Even the government has admitted that only a few hundred at most will be deported.

    This is just performative cruelty to an individual who has close family here.

    And before you ask what would I do, I put my ideas down a few months back. They were rather more intelligent than this sort of ineffective nonsense.



    I think i remember your ideas, despite them being forgettable kittens-n-roses nonsense. But do tell us again
    The current Refugee Convention is no longer fit for purpose. The distinction between an asylum seeker and economic migrant is nonsensical. We want to have a sensible level of immigration, which attracts the people we want and gives us some level of control.

    So opt out of the Conventions, agree an annual number of migrants with a points based system: skills, family connections etc, after proper open debate in Parliament, followed by necessary planning for infrastructure / services etc. Merely being a refugee and persecuted is insufficient to get you a place - save in very exceptional circumstances. Applications made from outside the U.K. only - thus disincentivising travel here. If you get accepted,you get flown here safely.

    Plus @rcs1000's measures to discourage the black economy.

    Something along these lines would be better than what we have now.

    Not that any party will propose this.

    But if I do set up "The Kittens'n'Roses" party (and frankly I feel it is mighty churlish of the country not to put me in charge) then something like this will be in my manifesto.

    That and making people have nice front gardens and banning plastic grass.
    What about the channel crossings.
    Deal with the French.
    We agree to take 2000 refugees from France each month - but from a centre inland, not from Calais.
    For every migrant who arrive in the UK by boat, we reduce that total by 2.

    Totals to be reset each year.
    And.,.. how do you stop the Channel crossings?

    There is a hundred miles of coastline, or more. A near infinity of beaches and coves. It is impossible to police all that 24/7/365. I believe the French when they say they literally cannot do it. Tho they could certainly do MORE

    The only way is to deter, make it not worth the crossing. Rwanda

    Next
    You seem to forget that - before Covid - Channel Crossing barely existed at all.
    You’re delusional. This is nothing to do with covid, or, if it is associated it is mostly accidental

    True story: I remember watching a programme about Channel crossing BY LORRY several years ago (long before Covid). Back then I suddenly thought, Fuck, why don’t they just come by boat? What’s stopping them? It will be much easer and we can’t turn them back because they might drown

    It was an epiphany, and it turned out I was right. Once you realise a boat is the best way, there is no going back. As it were. Think of it as like the Wheeled Luggage of Illicit Migration to Britain. Once we all realised wheeled luggage made way more sense, that is what we did, about 30 years after it was invented

    BTW we need to put a time frame around our bet

    You said “a year” and a 50% drop so I suggest this, as we are near the solstice:

    @rcs1000 bets @leon that migrations to the UK by boat, in toto, will be at least 50% down in the period 21 June 2022 to 21 June 2023, from where they were in the period 21 June 2021 to 21 June 2022

    @leon disagrees!

    The loser will pay £50 to a refugee charity chosen by the winner

    @edmundintokyo, as per, can be the traditional arbiter of disputes

    Agreed?
    Perhaps a better question might be - how to stop cross-Mediterranean immigration? "Illegal immigration" into the UK is likely to be a function of flows into Spain, Italy, Greece and Turkey. And those numbers are already in the hundreds of thousands per year - and are rising.

    Patel's measures might successfully lower the proportion of illegal immigrants into Europe who continue on to the UK.

    But the rising tide is likely to mean overall numbers continue to rise...
    Fortunately, the United Nations has a portal with data on Mediterranean crossings: https://data.unhcr.org/en/situations/mediterranean

    "And those numbers are already in the hundreds of thousands per year - and are rising"

    This is the chart on the boat crossings of the Med:


    You are aware of the policies the EU uses (hiding behind a shield of barely plausible deniability) to deter cross-Med immigration?

    If the UK tried that I would personally match into Downing Street and drag Boris out by his ears
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,966
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?

    Where haven’t you been before?
    I’ve not seen Armenia outside Yerevan. But I’ve not been to Uzbekistan either

    Fuck it. Both!
    Samarkand?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,299
    I love Liverpool's transfer policy spend what you earn and don't go into debt.

    Gutted by this move, he's taken Origi's old squad number.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61742358
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,947
    Roger said:

    £1 Million a passenger. Boris looking pretty embarrassed

    First time for everything.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,375

    Is it true? Just two left?

    You know what... I'm beginning to suspect that the overwhelming majority of these so-called "Asylum seekers" are actually...

    Asylum seekers.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I had no idea that this EU member country is acting much as UK but have not heard any condemnation of this scheme on here

    Denmark's 'zero' refugees policy

    As part of its 2019 election mandate, Denmark's ruling Social Democratic party said a core policy was to process asylum applications outside the European Union. The government has a "zero" refugees policy and started revoking residence permits from Syrian refugees last year.

    In June 2021, legislation was passed allowing refugees to be sent to a country outside the EU to be processed and Denmark has had talks with countries in and outside the EU about a potential arrangement, potentially involving Tunisia and/or Ethiopia.

    Last year, Denmark's immigration minister Mattias Tesfaye signed a three-year memorandum of understanding with Rwanda, which led to speculation that a processing facility would be opened in east Africa.

    The Danish government has agreed to provide funding for any asylum system.

    Mr Tesfaye has recently said Denmark is in talks with Rwanda to transfer asylum seekers to east Africa.

    According to Zachary Whyte, Associate Professor at the Center for Advanced Migration Studies (AMIS) at the University of Copenhagen, who wrote in a recent blog post: "The Danish plans involve an initial screening of asylum seekers for vulnerability, before they are transferred to a third country, which could be Rwanda.

    "Their asylum cases will be processed there. If they are recognised as refugees, they will be settled there. If not, their possible deportation will be the responsibility of that third country."

    Mr Tesfaye said the current system is "unsustainable" and over 22,000 people have died trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea, adding the UK agreement is a "good step forward".

    "We are in dialogue with Rwanda, and we have a good cooperation based on a broad partnership, but we do not have an agreement on transfer of asylum seekers," he added.

    This is not politiskvæddemål.com.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,984

    tlg86 said:

    https://order-order.com/2022/06/14/revealed-brexit-hating-libdem-husband-of-controversial-cadwalladr-decision-judge/

    I'm tempted to say that they could have chosen a better judge to preside over the Banks v Cadwalladr case, but then I suspect many judges would have such conflicts of interest.

    Judge supports her husband's views. Wow. Guido writes:

    Guido has no intention of impugning the integrity of the judge in this case...

    Yeh, right, of course he doesn't. So why publish this tittle tattle?
    Clicks and shares
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    edited June 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    I had no idea that this EU member country is acting much as UK but have not heard any condemnation of this scheme on here

    Denmark's 'zero' refugees policy

    As part of its 2019 election mandate, Denmark's ruling Social Democratic party said a core policy was to process asylum applications outside the European Union. The government has a "zero" refugees policy and started revoking residence permits from Syrian refugees last year.

    In June 2021, legislation was passed allowing refugees to be sent to a country outside the EU to be processed and Denmark has had talks with countries in and outside the EU about a potential arrangement, potentially involving Tunisia and/or Ethiopia.

    Last year, Denmark's immigration minister Mattias Tesfaye signed a three-year memorandum of understanding with Rwanda, which led to speculation that a processing facility would be opened in east Africa.

    The Danish government has agreed to provide funding for any asylum system.

    Mr Tesfaye has recently said Denmark is in talks with Rwanda to transfer asylum seekers to east Africa.

    According to Zachary Whyte, Associate Professor at the Center for Advanced Migration Studies (AMIS) at the University of Copenhagen, who wrote in a recent blog post: "The Danish plans involve an initial screening of asylum seekers for vulnerability, before they are transferred to a third country, which could be Rwanda.

    "Their asylum cases will be processed there. If they are recognised as refugees, they will be settled there. If not, their possible deportation will be the responsibility of that third country."

    Mr Tesfaye said the current system is "unsustainable" and over 22,000 people have died trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea, adding the UK agreement is a "good step forward".

    "We are in dialogue with Rwanda, and we have a good cooperation based on a broad partnership, but we do not have an agreement on transfer of asylum seekers," he added.

    This is not politiskvæddemål.com.
    It was an exceptionally silly post by Big G.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,984

    Some Democratic organizations are backing Trumpistas -- in Republican primaries:
    "All three have something else in common: They’re benefiting, either directly or indirectly, from a cluster of Democratic-associated groups spending millions of dollars in contested Republican primaries this month. In some cases these groups are attacking more mainstream Republicans and in others they are amplifying messages from the election-denying candidates.

    The apparent bet these organizations are placing is that such far-right candidates, who hold polarizing views on various issues, would be easier to defeat in the November midterms when a broader slice of the electorate will be casting ballots."
    source($): https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/13/democrats-interference-primaries/

    The organizations are probably correct that, in most general elections, Trumpistas will be easier to defeat than more rational Republicans -- but there is the obvious risk of backfire with such tactics.

    That does strike me as unethical.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,252

    IshmaelZ said:

    I had no idea that this EU member country is acting much as UK but have not heard any condemnation of this scheme on here

    Denmark's 'zero' refugees policy

    As part of its 2019 election mandate, Denmark's ruling Social Democratic party said a core policy was to process asylum applications outside the European Union. The government has a "zero" refugees policy and started revoking residence permits from Syrian refugees last year.

    In June 2021, legislation was passed allowing refugees to be sent to a country outside the EU to be processed and Denmark has had talks with countries in and outside the EU about a potential arrangement, potentially involving Tunisia and/or Ethiopia.

    Last year, Denmark's immigration minister Mattias Tesfaye signed a three-year memorandum of understanding with Rwanda, which led to speculation that a processing facility would be opened in east Africa.

    The Danish government has agreed to provide funding for any asylum system.

    Mr Tesfaye has recently said Denmark is in talks with Rwanda to transfer asylum seekers to east Africa.

    According to Zachary Whyte, Associate Professor at the Center for Advanced Migration Studies (AMIS) at the University of Copenhagen, who wrote in a recent blog post: "The Danish plans involve an initial screening of asylum seekers for vulnerability, before they are transferred to a third country, which could be Rwanda.

    "Their asylum cases will be processed there. If they are recognised as refugees, they will be settled there. If not, their possible deportation will be the responsibility of that third country."

    Mr Tesfaye said the current system is "unsustainable" and over 22,000 people have died trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea, adding the UK agreement is a "good step forward".

    "We are in dialogue with Rwanda, and we have a good cooperation based on a broad partnership, but we do not have an agreement on transfer of asylum seekers," he added.

    This is not politiskvæddemål.com.
    It was an exceptionally silly post by Big G.
    Why is is silly drawing attention to an EU member state following the same policy as UK

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544

    IshmaelZ said:

    I had no idea that this EU member country is acting much as UK but have not heard any condemnation of this scheme on here

    Denmark's 'zero' refugees policy

    As part of its 2019 election mandate, Denmark's ruling Social Democratic party said a core policy was to process asylum applications outside the European Union. The government has a "zero" refugees policy and started revoking residence permits from Syrian refugees last year.

    In June 2021, legislation was passed allowing refugees to be sent to a country outside the EU to be processed and Denmark has had talks with countries in and outside the EU about a potential arrangement, potentially involving Tunisia and/or Ethiopia.

    Last year, Denmark's immigration minister Mattias Tesfaye signed a three-year memorandum of understanding with Rwanda, which led to speculation that a processing facility would be opened in east Africa.

    The Danish government has agreed to provide funding for any asylum system.

    Mr Tesfaye has recently said Denmark is in talks with Rwanda to transfer asylum seekers to east Africa.

    According to Zachary Whyte, Associate Professor at the Center for Advanced Migration Studies (AMIS) at the University of Copenhagen, who wrote in a recent blog post: "The Danish plans involve an initial screening of asylum seekers for vulnerability, before they are transferred to a third country, which could be Rwanda.

    "Their asylum cases will be processed there. If they are recognised as refugees, they will be settled there. If not, their possible deportation will be the responsibility of that third country."

    Mr Tesfaye said the current system is "unsustainable" and over 22,000 people have died trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea, adding the UK agreement is a "good step forward".

    "We are in dialogue with Rwanda, and we have a good cooperation based on a broad partnership, but we do not have an agreement on transfer of asylum seekers," he added.

    This is not politiskvæddemål.com.
    It was an exceptionally silly post by Big G.
    Though it does show that a harsh asylum policy to control our borders is perfectly compatible with EU, and even Schengen membership. All it takes is the triumph of the will.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845

    IshmaelZ said:

    I had no idea that this EU member country is acting much as UK but have not heard any condemnation of this scheme on here

    Denmark's 'zero' refugees policy

    As part of its 2019 election mandate, Denmark's ruling Social Democratic party said a core policy was to process asylum applications outside the European Union. The government has a "zero" refugees policy and started revoking residence permits from Syrian refugees last year.

    In June 2021, legislation was passed allowing refugees to be sent to a country outside the EU to be processed and Denmark has had talks with countries in and outside the EU about a potential arrangement, potentially involving Tunisia and/or Ethiopia.

    Last year, Denmark's immigration minister Mattias Tesfaye signed a three-year memorandum of understanding with Rwanda, which led to speculation that a processing facility would be opened in east Africa.

    The Danish government has agreed to provide funding for any asylum system.

    Mr Tesfaye has recently said Denmark is in talks with Rwanda to transfer asylum seekers to east Africa.

    According to Zachary Whyte, Associate Professor at the Center for Advanced Migration Studies (AMIS) at the University of Copenhagen, who wrote in a recent blog post: "The Danish plans involve an initial screening of asylum seekers for vulnerability, before they are transferred to a third country, which could be Rwanda.

    "Their asylum cases will be processed there. If they are recognised as refugees, they will be settled there. If not, their possible deportation will be the responsibility of that third country."

    Mr Tesfaye said the current system is "unsustainable" and over 22,000 people have died trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea, adding the UK agreement is a "good step forward".

    "We are in dialogue with Rwanda, and we have a good cooperation based on a broad partnership, but we do not have an agreement on transfer of asylum seekers," he added.

    This is not politiskvæddemål.com.
    It was an exceptionally silly post by Big G.
    Why is is silly drawing attention to an EU member state following the same policy as UK

    Your silly line at the top rendered the whole thing a dunciad.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,130

    Is it true? Just two left?

    You know what... I'm beginning to suspect that the overwhelming majority of these so-called "Asylum seekers" are actually...

    Asylum seekers.
    I think they are all people looking for a better life.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    stodge said:

    darkage said:

    Is there any evidence that the Rwanda plan has any popular support?

    @HYUFD has put up polling showing 44-40 in favour with big majorities in favour among Conservative and LEAVE voters (who are for some the only voters who matter).
    YouGov poll, details on their site. slight advantage in favour but amongst strongly held opinion, strongly against is ahead by a few points.
    On an issue like this 'strongly held opinion' is really important. For some this could be a vote changer and there are very few such issues around.

    Some believe a Mail or an Express headline can do it but that isn't how it works.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,544
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve no idea where I’m going tomorrow. Literally no idea. Could do a roadtrip around Armenia. Go back to Georgia. Fly to Baku. Go to Uzbekistan. It’s like the dice man only with more Caucasus

    Tell me, PB. Where shall i go?

    Where haven’t you been before?
    I’ve not seen Armenia outside Yerevan. But I’ve not been to Uzbekistan either

    Fuck it. Both!
    Don't fancy the flints in Nagorno-Karabag? It looks very scenic...
This discussion has been closed.