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Johnson could face a confidence vote from the Tory grassroots – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
    I confess, I'm a bit lost now.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens
    The book is outstanding, and the Amazon show is surprisingly good. I'm still struggling with how they are making a sequel.
    I love the book. But the Amazon version was meh.
    I thought David Tennant was superb.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    edited June 2022

    pigeon said:

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause,...

    TBF, after this govt, Labour's past eye watering spending plans look like financial probity and fiscal rectitude. Johnson and Sunak literally hosed money on a scale never before witnessed. They made Gordon Brown look like a miser. :D
    To be scrupulously fair, they did have the not-so-tiny excuse of a once-in-a-century plague cataclysm to deal with. They could reasonably get away with borrowing and printing money, which the rest of the Western world was doing to a greater or lesser extent at the same time, under such circumstances.

    That, however, was exceptional. They can't get away with borrowing and printing forever; QE is being fingered by some economists as part of the reason for the inflationary spike as it is.

    If Government can't pull those levers any more, or in any event can only use them to plug a proportion of the holes in its finances, then the only other options left to balance the books are austerity or tax rises. And I can see the next election being a competition between Labour tax rises and Tory austerity, and then it will depend on who can sell their policies the better. I think it likely that Labour will play the fairness card, with taxation being targeted at the earnings and assets of the comfortably off; the Tories will contend that more money isn't needed in the first place and that Labour is being profligate.

    The result of the first Corbyn manifesto in 2017 suggests that Labour can, in theory, still get the vote out if it is sufficiently motivated. In practice, I'm concerned that traditional age-turnout profiles may assert themselves and the Tories will do better than most people are expecting, even if the current leader remains in charge (my husband thinks that the outcome of the next GE will more closely resemble 1992 than 1997.) But, in truth, who knows?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
    Hes another David Miliband. Talked up because you've got to talk someone up. He will rock up with a banana at conference
    maybe. I see what you are saying but I think is so much more controlled as a person that he wont. His media performances are top drawer, but there's something, I don't know what that says but to me...

    Labour will vote for a lass next time.
    Him being gay could be an issue for some.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    That would be *brave*

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
    Hes another David Miliband. Talked up because you've got to talk someone up. He will rock up with a banana at conference
    maybe. I see what you are saying but I think is so much more controlled as a person that he wont. His media performances are top drawer, but there's something, I don't know what that says but to me...

    Labour will vote for a lass next time.
    He’s been promoted exceptionally quickly - a comment on the post-Corbyn talent desert in the opposition - and would risk the same fate as Hague if he went next. He’d be wise to bide his time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    edited June 2022
    Unusual place to stumble across this, and unusual for Boris to get something right in not pandering for once. At least for now.

    The Women Against State Pension Injustice (Waspi) campaign group has been recruiting senior political figures to support their campaign. They have now won public pledges of support from leaders across the political spectrum, with the exception of Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

    https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1623697/Waspi-women-state-pension-age-compensation-1950s-Women-Against-State-Pension-Injustice
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
    Hes another David Miliband. Talked up because you've got to talk someone up. He will rock up with a banana at conference
    maybe. I see what you are saying but I think is so much more controlled as a person that he wont. His media performances are top drawer, but there's something, I don't know what that says but to me...

    Labour will vote for a lass next time.
    Im being cheeky of course. What im gettimg at is he is being prematurely talked up like Miliband was, without any real evidence aside from he can talk to camera. Miliband turned out to be a dud yet Labour fawned over him for years as a ludicrous king over water figure. Streeting may or may not be a dud, time will tell but i fear he is already overpushed.
    Yes, girl next for them though
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Carnyx said:

    Just to help out, the new food strategy is not going down well in rusticland - notably T&H:


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/boris-johnson-faces-rural-fury-over-post-brexit-food-strategy

    And notably the NFU.

    'Commenting on the new government food strategy, leaked to the Guardian on Friday, Batters said she was “pleased to see a commitment on food security” but added that the original strategy had been “stripped to the bare bones” and that there was no plan left on how to implement its overall aims.

    “We want to be eating more British and more local food but again I just ask how,” she said, adding: “It’s all very well to have words but it’s got to have really meaningful delivery and we aren’t seeing that yet in this document.”

    Batters said she met Johnson on Friday and told him that farmers wanted to be supported to produce food, as well as help the environment. “I said that is what farmers in Tiverton want to see. Farmers want the detail.” She said that at present there was no clear policy.'

    I keep pointing this out up here. David Duguid represents a constituency which is farming, fishing and energy, and he is doing what he can to bugger all three. It will come back to bite him and all the rest of them on the bum.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
    Hes another David Miliband. Talked up because you've got to talk someone up. He will rock up with a banana at conference
    maybe. I see what you are saying but I think is so much more controlled as a person that he wont. His media performances are top drawer, but there's something, I don't know what that says but to me...

    Labour will vote for a lass next time.
    Him being gay could be an issue for some.
    I doubt it. Most of the country is past the point where this is likely to be a serious consideration. I suppose it might be off-putting to some religiously conservative demographic groups, but they are a relatively small minority and mainly concentrated in Labour safe seats.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    pigeon said:

    The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.

    No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.

    Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.

    Labours result will be worse than 2017 and only slightly better than 2019 despite the worst Cost of Living Crisis since Thatcher
    So, you think that he'll get - what - 210-220 seats? (Admittedly with much tougher boundaries than Corbyn faced.)

    Well. I love a man willing to make a prediction. Personally, I reckon the likeliest outcome is that he'll get somewhere around 250 seats; but given the LDs could well be back in the 20s, and the SNP will be close to sweeping the board in Scotland, that will probably be enough to deny the Conservatives a majority.

    Shall we make 235 the bet line? £1/seat?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    pigeon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
    Hes another David Miliband. Talked up because you've got to talk someone up. He will rock up with a banana at conference
    maybe. I see what you are saying but I think is so much more controlled as a person that he wont. His media performances are top drawer, but there's something, I don't know what that says but to me...

    Labour will vote for a lass next time.
    Him being gay could be an issue for some.
    I doubt it. Most of the country is past the point where this is likely to be a serious consideration. I suppose it might be off-putting to some religiously conservative demographic groups, but they are a relatively small minority and mainly concentrated in Labour safe seats.
    Sadly it only needs to be an issue for 4 or 5% and its maybe 30 to 40 seats difference overall
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,141
    edited June 2022
    Looks like trouble brewing again for intra-Tory, internecine strife over the legislation to override the Brexit deal :

    "One Tory source: “Rebellion already bewing. The govt is lying to its own MPs & the media about the illegal focus of this bill. The Tory party is sleepwalking into a repeat of the Owen Paterson vote & Partygate – yet again positioning the party full square in support of law-breaking over rule of law.” 4/7

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1535667675795431424

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,279

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    His poetry was awful, his paintings were worse, he has a weird squeaky voice (check recordings) and apparently he suffered awful halitosis

    And yet he hypnotised many people - nubile women into his late 60s - and he exerts a remarkable influence on our culture to this day. And now it turns out he may be in some senses responsible for the Invasion of Ukraine

    Chapeau, I say. Chapeau

    I always wondered what happened to the goat
    I don't want to encourage a seizure, but..

    'The Italian poet and war veteran D’Annunzio might have come closest to the Thelemite ideal with his short-lived Free City of Fiume, a regime governed by the arts that attracted numerous rebels, from anarchists and syndicalists to nationalists.[30] Crowley does not mention D’Annunzio in his autobiography, even though Crowley was in Italy in 1920, and D’Annunzio’s enterprise ended in December of that year.[31]'

    https://counter-currents.com/2010/09/aleister-crowley-as-political-theorist-part-2/
    *actually has seizure*
  • Old_HandOld_Hand Posts: 49
    Reverting to the triggering of an Extraordinary Meeting of the Conservative Party's National Convention, it is not some "obscure clause" of the Constitution but rules 12 and 13 in Schedule 3 (the Schedule that goes into detail about the National Convention). There is no secret about this provision - it is in plain sight and a copy of the Constitution is registered with the Electoral Commission.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    pigeon said:

    The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.

    No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.

    Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.

    Labours result will be worse than 2017 and only slightly better than 2019 despite the worst Cost of Living Crisis since Thatcher
    So, you think that he'll get - what - 210-220 seats? (Admittedly with much tougher boundaries than Corbyn faced.)

    Well. I love a man willing to make a prediction. Personally, I reckon the likeliest outcome is that he'll get somewhere around 250 seats; but given the LDs could well be back in the 20s, and the SNP will be close to sweeping the board in Scotland, that will probably be enough to deny the Conservatives a majority.

    Shall we make 235 the bet line? £1/seat?
    SNP very hard to judge this time. Ive got them likely closer to 2017 than 2019 or halfway between maybe as i dont expect an unusually big nationalist turnout for another UK election. 40 to 45 seats i think.
    Which is still complete dominance of course
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    His poetry was awful, his paintings were worse, he has a weird squeaky voice (check recordings) and apparently he suffered awful halitosis

    And yet he hypnotised many people - nubile women into his late 60s - and he exerts a remarkable influence on our culture to this day. And now it turns out he may be in some senses responsible for the Invasion of Ukraine

    Chapeau, I say. Chapeau

    I always wondered what happened to the goat
    I don't want to encourage a seizure, but..

    'The Italian poet and war veteran D’Annunzio might have come closest to the Thelemite ideal with his short-lived Free City of Fiume, a regime governed by the arts that attracted numerous rebels, from anarchists and syndicalists to nationalists.[30] Crowley does not mention D’Annunzio in his autobiography, even though Crowley was in Italy in 1920, and D’Annunzio’s enterprise ended in December of that year.[31]'

    https://counter-currents.com/2010/09/aleister-crowley-as-political-theorist-part-2/
    *actually has seizure*
    Is that the same Fiume that's now Rijeka in Croatia?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913

    ydoethur said:

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
    SKS abandoned Socialism for Thatcherism first (the day after the leadership Election)

    Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.

    SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
    Fuck me, you're in deep shit now...
    Oh dear have I insulted another Poster.

    No wonder I dont come on here much now
    There's only a certain number of times you can say exactly the same thing. Thanks for sparing us even more repeats
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Opinium's modified and frankly silly new methodology.

    If it wasn't broken, don't fix it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
    Hes another David Miliband. Talked up because you've got to talk someone up. He will rock up with a banana at conference
    maybe. I see what you are saying but I think is so much more controlled as a person that he wont. His media performances are top drawer, but there's something, I don't know what that says but to me...

    Labour will vote for a lass next time.
    Trouble is, the ones they have at the forefront are even more underwhelming than Starmer.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    pigeon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
    Hes another David Miliband. Talked up because you've got to talk someone up. He will rock up with a banana at conference
    maybe. I see what you are saying but I think is so much more controlled as a person that he wont. His media performances are top drawer, but there's something, I don't know what that says but to me...

    Labour will vote for a lass next time.
    Him being gay could be an issue for some.
    I doubt it. Most of the country is past the point where this is likely to be a serious consideration. I suppose it might be off-putting to some religiously conservative demographic groups, but they are a relatively small minority and mainly concentrated in Labour safe seats.
    Yes we are a much more tolerant country than even 20 years ago, but there are a fair few inner city seats with religious enclaves who are less keen on homosexuality. As you say, probably concentrated in safe seats anyway, but I do think it is a factor (among others). Personally think he is quite good, but there is the danger of projection on any face that is not yet that well known.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    ohnotnow said: " If you enjoy sci-fi (especially low-budget-but-serious) then 'Europa Report' is worth a watch on this subject." (of life on outer solar system moons)

    Thanks, I check it out.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Carnyx said:

    Just to help out, the new food strategy is not going down well in rusticland - notably T&H:


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/boris-johnson-faces-rural-fury-over-post-brexit-food-strategy

    And notably the NFU.

    'Commenting on the new government food strategy, leaked to the Guardian on Friday, Batters said she was “pleased to see a commitment on food security” but added that the original strategy had been “stripped to the bare bones” and that there was no plan left on how to implement its overall aims.

    “We want to be eating more British and more local food but again I just ask how,” she said, adding: “It’s all very well to have words but it’s got to have really meaningful delivery and we aren’t seeing that yet in this document.”

    Batters said she met Johnson on Friday and told him that farmers wanted to be supported to produce food, as well as help the environment. “I said that is what farmers in Tiverton want to see. Farmers want the detail.” She said that at present there was no clear policy.'

    I keep pointing this out up here. David Duguid represents a constituency which is farming, fishing and energy, and he is doing what he can to bugger all three. It will come back to bite him and all the rest of them on the bum.
    Food and farming is yet another thorny issue that no Government is going to find easy to solve, because a big part of the solution to simultaneously achieving a healthier environment and better food security is to promote more plant based diets and end the era of everyday meat consumption (and to clarify, I say that as an omnivore not a vegan lobbyist.) Each acre that can be turned over to arable rather than livestock farming represents a reduction in carbon footprint and, critically, less animal shit to be dealt with - and in some parts of this country animal shit is a worse threat to the health of rivers than sewage release by water companies.

    Of course, in the middle of an inflationary spike when household budgets are already under pressure, the last thing a lot of folk want to be told is that meat and dairy generally should be used more sparingly, and that products like roasting chickens as well as beef steaks ought to be regarded as luxuries. Everybody likes cheap stuff and nobody wants to hear bad news.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Todays press is reporting that a focus group in Wakefield (where a by-election is pending) has marked
    @Keir_Starmer
    as “weak” “a barrier to voting Labour” and “a slippery slime ball”.

    The truth is, Labour needs a new Leader.
  • ydoethur said:

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
    SKS abandoned Socialism for Thatcherism first (the day after the leadership Election)

    Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.

    SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
    Fuck me, you're in deep shit now...
    Oh dear have I insulted another Poster.

    No wonder I dont come on here much now
    Hang around Mr Owls because the site needs a diversity of views.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862

    ydoethur said:

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
    SKS abandoned Socialism for Thatcherism first (the day after the leadership Election)

    Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.

    SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
    Fuck me, you're in deep shit now...
    Oh dear have I insulted another Poster.

    No wonder I dont come on here much now
    Hang around Mr Owls because the site needs a diversity of views.
    And there are never enough owls to go round as it is….
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
    SKS abandoned Socialism for Thatcherism first (the day after the leadership Election)

    Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.

    SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
    Fuck me, you're in deep shit now...
    Oh dear have I insulted another Poster.

    No wonder I dont come on here much now
    Hang around Mr Owls because the site needs a diversity of views.
    We've already got Hyufd, he's quite enough on the BoJo fanboy spectrum.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Roger said:

    ydoethur said:

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
    SKS abandoned Socialism for Thatcherism first (the day after the leadership Election)

    Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.

    SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
    Fuck me, you're in deep shit now...
    Oh dear have I insulted another Poster.

    No wonder I dont come on here much now
    There's only a certain number of times you can say exactly the same thing. Thanks for sparing us even more repeats
    SKSWNBPM hasnt sunk in to some Posters yet so I will pop up to remind the in denial Centrists as and when i feel fit
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Just to help out, the new food strategy is not going down well in rusticland - notably T&H:


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/boris-johnson-faces-rural-fury-over-post-brexit-food-strategy

    And notably the NFU.

    'Commenting on the new government food strategy, leaked to the Guardian on Friday, Batters said she was “pleased to see a commitment on food security” but added that the original strategy had been “stripped to the bare bones” and that there was no plan left on how to implement its overall aims.

    “We want to be eating more British and more local food but again I just ask how,” she said, adding: “It’s all very well to have words but it’s got to have really meaningful delivery and we aren’t seeing that yet in this document.”

    Batters said she met Johnson on Friday and told him that farmers wanted to be supported to produce food, as well as help the environment. “I said that is what farmers in Tiverton want to see. Farmers want the detail.” She said that at present there was no clear policy.'

    I keep pointing this out up here. David Duguid represents a constituency which is farming, fishing and energy, and he is doing what he can to bugger all three. It will come back to bite him and all the rest of them on the bum.
    Food and farming is yet another thorny issue that no Government is going to find easy to solve, because a big part of the solution to simultaneously achieving a healthier environment and better food security is to promote more plant based diets and end the era of everyday meat consumption (and to clarify, I say that as an omnivore not a vegan lobbyist.) Each acre that can be turned over to arable rather than livestock farming represents a reduction in carbon footprint and, critically, less animal shit to be dealt with - and in some parts of this country animal shit is a worse threat to the health of rivers than sewage release by water companies.

    Of course, in the middle of an inflationary spike when household budgets are already under pressure, the last thing a lot of folk want to be told is that meat and dairy generally should be used more sparingly, and that products like roasting chickens as well as beef steaks ought to be regarded as luxuries. Everybody likes cheap stuff and nobody wants to hear bad news.
    Thing is that I AM - in a way - a "vegan lobbyist". But the required shift to more plant-based foods (because we are literally running out of planet to grow the crops to grow the meat that a growing population demands) will be good for farming.

    Take away the pressure and you remove the need for industrial farming of the kind which is destroying ecosystems and lowering quality. Better quality meat reared more kindly to both the animals and the environment and sold for more profit will be the result of more plant-based food.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    IshmaelZ - If you are interested in modern slavery, you might want to read Francis Bok's book, "Escape from Slavery". His personal story is quite remarkable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bok

    Amazingly, considering what he went through, Bok has a good sense of humor. I got a kick out of his descriptions of his encounters with snow in North Dakota, and trying to find ready-to-wear clothes. (There aren't many American men who are six feet, six inches tall -- and weigh 150 pounds.)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited June 2022

    pigeon said:

    The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.

    No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.

    Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.

    Labours result will be worse than 2017 and only slightly better than 2019 despite the worst Cost of Living Crisis since Thatcher
    You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the Conservatives are on a similar number to 2019 (unless that is due to Johnson fighting hand to hand with Putin on the streets of Moscow, and winning) you and I will NEVER see non-Conservative governments EVER again, whether Labour are led by Starmer or the ghost of Karl Marx himself.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    pigeon said:

    The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.

    No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.

    Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.

    Labours result will be worse than 2017 and only slightly better than 2019 despite the worst Cost of Living Crisis since Thatcher
    You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the Conservatives are on a similar number to 2019 (unless that is due to Johnson fighting hand to hand with Putin on the streets of Moscow, and winning) you and I will NEVER see non-Conservative governments EVER again, whether Labour are led by Starmer or the ghost of Karl Marx himself.
    You will see non-Conservative governments again

    Its just Labour ones You will NEVER EVER see again
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    pigeon said:

    The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.

    No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.

    Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.

    Labours result will be worse than 2017 and only slightly better than 2019 despite the worst Cost of Living Crisis since Thatcher
    You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the Conservatives are on a similar number to 2019 (unless that is due to Johnson fighting hand to hand with Putin on the streets of Moscow, and winning) you and I will NEVER see non-Conservative governments EVER again, whether Labour are led by Starmer or the ghost of Karl Marx himself.
    You will see non-Conservative governments again

    Its just Labour ones You will NEVER EVER see again
    Well you haven't seen one of those since 1979.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    How you Johnson rampers think he gets a free ride over the economy baffles me.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    Knob recites knob.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    pigeon said:

    The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.

    No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.

    Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.

    Labours result will be worse than 2017 and only slightly better than 2019 despite the worst Cost of Living Crisis since Thatcher
    You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the Conservatives are on a similar number to 2019 (unless that is due to Johnson fighting hand to hand with Putin on the streets of Moscow, and winning) you and I will NEVER see non-Conservative governments EVER again, whether Labour are led by Starmer or the ghost of Karl Marx himself.
    You will see non-Conservative governments again

    Its just Labour ones You will NEVER EVER see again
    Well you haven't seen one of those since 1979.
    1997 I think

    Dyslexia is a terrible thing!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    pigeon said:

    The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.

    No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.

    Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.

    Labours result will be worse than 2017 and only slightly better than 2019 despite the worst Cost of Living Crisis since Thatcher
    You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. If the Conservatives are on a similar number to 2019 (unless that is due to Johnson fighting hand to hand with Putin on the streets of Moscow, and winning) you and I will NEVER see non-Conservative governments EVER again, whether Labour are led by Starmer or the ghost of Karl Marx himself.
    You will see non-Conservative governments again

    Its just Labour ones You will NEVER EVER see again
    Well you haven't seen one of those since 1979.
    1997 I think

    Dyslexia is a terrible thing!
    I stand by 1979 on your current terms.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,141
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    Truly bizarre. This means that he shares a cultural lineage with Jiimmy Page and David Bowie, yet presents himself as arising organically out of the mystic east of Slavic Civiisation. Would be comical if he wasn't so dangerous.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Just to help out, the new food strategy is not going down well in rusticland - notably T&H:


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/boris-johnson-faces-rural-fury-over-post-brexit-food-strategy

    And notably the NFU.

    'Commenting on the new government food strategy, leaked to the Guardian on Friday, Batters said she was “pleased to see a commitment on food security” but added that the original strategy had been “stripped to the bare bones” and that there was no plan left on how to implement its overall aims.

    “We want to be eating more British and more local food but again I just ask how,” she said, adding: “It’s all very well to have words but it’s got to have really meaningful delivery and we aren’t seeing that yet in this document.”

    Batters said she met Johnson on Friday and told him that farmers wanted to be supported to produce food, as well as help the environment. “I said that is what farmers in Tiverton want to see. Farmers want the detail.” She said that at present there was no clear policy.'

    I keep pointing this out up here. David Duguid represents a constituency which is farming, fishing and energy, and he is doing what he can to bugger all three. It will come back to bite him and all the rest of them on the bum.
    Food and farming is yet another thorny issue that no Government is going to find easy to solve, because a big part of the solution to simultaneously achieving a healthier environment and better food security is to promote more plant based diets and end the era of everyday meat consumption (and to clarify, I say that as an omnivore not a vegan lobbyist.) Each acre that can be turned over to arable rather than livestock farming represents a reduction in carbon footprint and, critically, less animal shit to be dealt with - and in some parts of this country animal shit is a worse threat to the health of rivers than sewage release by water companies.

    Of course, in the middle of an inflationary spike when household budgets are already under pressure, the last thing a lot of folk want to be told is that meat and dairy generally should be used more sparingly, and that products like roasting chickens as well as beef steaks ought to be regarded as luxuries. Everybody likes cheap stuff and nobody wants to hear bad news.
    Thing is that I AM - in a way - a "vegan lobbyist". But the required shift to more plant-based foods (because we are literally running out of planet to grow the crops to grow the meat that a growing population demands) will be good for farming.

    Take away the pressure and you remove the need for industrial farming of the kind which is destroying ecosystems and lowering quality. Better quality meat reared more kindly to both the animals and the environment and sold for more profit will be the result of more plant-based food.
    Farms based on rotation between livestock and arable is the best way of farming. The current push toward plant based is moving from shitty meat fed on shitty cash crops, to cutting out the middle man, and just feeding the populace on the shitty cash crop. Arguably the meat is healthier because at least it offers the same low quality ingredients in a more digestible form.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    pigeon said:

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause,...

    TBF, after this govt, Labour's past eye watering spending plans look like financial probity and fiscal rectitude. Johnson and Sunak literally hosed money on a scale never before witnessed. They made Gordon Brown look like a miser. :D
    TBF if corbyn had won in 2019 we would have the eye watering spending plus the covid spending
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    In the last year or so, I found this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_abolition_of_slavery_and_serfdom

    And have found it fascinating. (Not being a historian, I can't vouch for the accuracy of every detail, but I haven't seen anything suspicious in it.)

    Example: "International slave trade made a felony in Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves; this act takes effect on 1 January 1808, the earliest date permitted under the Constitution."

    "Abolition of the Slave Trade Act abolishes slave trading throughout the British Empire. Captains fined £120 per slave transported. Patrols sent to the African coast to arrest slaving vessels."

    (Britain and the United States decided on these bans, independently, within a few weeks of each other.)

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT reminder: The Alaska special election primary to replace the late Don Young is being held today. (Though mail ballots can be postmarked later.) There are 48 candidates, including "Santa Claus". The top four will go on to a general election, this August. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Alaska's_at-large_congressional_district_special_election

    Don't forget that they also holding the jungle primary for the November's election at the same time, the candidate lists aren't the same, and it's entirely possible that the winner of the special won't even be in the final round in November.

    Also, remember that there's the ranked choice voting of the top four candidates.
    In the general. Today's rule is, vote for just ONE candidate out of 51 on ballot (plus write-ins IF you want to get creative!)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Alaska's_at-large_congressional_district_special_election

    And here is timeline as per this link
    https://elections.alaska.gov/specialelections.php

    April 1 by 5pm - Candidate Filing Deadline
    April 4 by 12pm - Candidate Withdrawal Deadline
    April 27 - Ballots Mailed to Voters
    May 12 - Voter Registration Deadline
    May 27 - Early & Absentee In-Person Voting Begins
    May 27 - Voters may apply to request a ballot be delivered electronically
    May 27 - Absentee Review Board Begins
    June 11 - Requests for electronic ballot delivery must be received by 5pm
    June 11 - Election Day
    June 11 - Ballots must either be postmarked by this day or physically received by DOE
    June 11 - First ballot count
    June 15 - Second ballot count
    June 17 - Third ballot count
    June 21 - Deadline to Receive Absentee Ballots
    June 21 - Final ballot count
    June 23 - State Review Board begins
    June 25 - Target certification date
    June 26 by 12:00pm - Candidate withdrawal deadline for the Special General Election [August 16, same day as regular Alaska primary]

    Ballots issued and returned as of Friday night, June 10

    Issued = 507,997 (all active registered voters)
    Received = 125,751 (24.8%)
    > lot of returns today PLUS returns with valid postmarks after today, will be interesting to see just how much there is there AND how much gets counted for tonight's initial, unofficial results.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506



    While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

    That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances.........
    Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
    How much of the whole poll has swingback built in?

    We agree the lead is actually 6% and Opinion ultra tough on Labour lead and shares, but there’s definitely drop off in Tory support in their sequence of polls, with that swing back built in, I reckon the raw figure (which they never share now?) before under the bonnet sorcery is much larger than 6. the 55% alliance figure is very consistent in the sequence.
    I dont know Rabbit. It all feels very holding pattern. Since the VONC we have redfield -2, Techne and Opinium +1 for Tories, margin of error stuff. Tories near their basement and Labour not convincing the electorate enough?
    The ComRes looks the outlier, everything else bouncing about the 6 or 7 lead (with opiniums different methofology keeping it 2 to 5 range).
    But im not sure. The best PM figure suggests labour would struggle to build a massive lead at the moment, but maybe a Zelensky/war leader mini effect is artificially boosting him for now?
    The people posting here do know this is an under the bonnet opinion poll, the 33% and 34% for Tories in last two are swing back adjusted, and that’s why we love this poll so much?

    Would be funny to see someone post with two weeks to go “we are only 5 behind on last Opiniom so still in with a chance”

    I agree this 2% adjusted is the 6/7% unadjusted from others. But what if there isn’t any swingback during next election? It looks like Tories will find it hard getting behind Johnson and foot solider for him, so maybe 4 or 5 lead is happy days for Labour. If you offer Labour a 4 or 5% election win tonight and Libdems doubling their MPs, surely both parties would snap your hand off? It would put them in power.

    Would be interesting to see if greens poll 7 or 8 on election night, we are presuming not so will the labour lead grow at Green expense as we enter the last weeks and months to polling?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    How you Johnson rampers think he gets a free ride over the economy baffles me.
    I am not a johnson ramper...I despise the tories I just hate labour more
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited June 2022
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    "...everyone one knows they are total planks..." translates as:

    "I, @Pagan2, think Labour are total planks and I'd love it if everyone else thought the same but I have no actual evidence of that."

    Personally, I happen to think the Tory leadership are a bunch of lying, self-serving, fuckwits but I am sensible enough to realise that not everyone is as enlightened as me.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    Time to start the Pagan Party?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2022
    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    "...everyone one knows they are total planks..." translates as:

    "I, @Pagan2, think Labour are total planks and I'd love it if everyone else thought the same but I have no actual evidence of that."

    Personally, I happen to think the Tory leadership are a bunch of lying, self-serving, fuckwits but I am sensible enough to realise that not everyone is as enlightened as me.
    A sentiment I agree with, I think the same of the labour and lib dem leadership and politicians too however I wish everyone was as enlightened as me and realised all our politicians are shit and best thing to do is not elect the fuckwits
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Saw Top Gun Maverick this evening too, excellent all round, best action film for a long time
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    Time to start the Pagan Party?
    I think our political system is crap yes. I did a header post about what I think needs to be reformed too.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    If I was ever able to end an article with so perfect a final line I would die happy.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/11/pence-trump-jan-6-lawyer-memo-00038996
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    You are late have you brought a note.

    Still now you are here i can retire to bed safely in knowledge my viewpoint will be represented
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022

    pigeon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
    Hes another David Miliband. Talked up because you've got to talk someone up. He will rock up with a banana at conference
    maybe. I see what you are saying but I think is so much more controlled as a person that he wont. His media performances are top drawer, but there's something, I don't know what that says but to me...

    Labour will vote for a lass next time.
    Him being gay could be an issue for some.
    I doubt it. Most of the country is past the point where this is likely to be a serious consideration. I suppose it might be off-putting to some religiously conservative demographic groups, but they are a relatively small minority and mainly concentrated in Labour safe seats.
    Yes we are a much more tolerant country than even 20 years ago, but there are a fair few inner city seats with religious enclaves who are less keen on homosexuality. As you say, probably concentrated in safe seats anyway, but I do think it is a factor (among others). Personally think he is quite good, but there is the danger of projection on any face that is not yet that well known.
    There are a few comfortable shire areas with less than enlightened views. This is where I don't get the Red Wall is socially conservative bit.
    If you're a lesbian couple who sign on, smoke dope and play house music all day, where are you less likely to be hassled and probably.arrested?
    Surrey or Wigan ?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    HYUFD said:

    Saw Top Gun Maverick this evening too, excellent all round, best action film for a long time

    Were there any polls on it? 👍
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    No one at all has any answers. It's all shades of brown.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    No one at all has any answers. It's all shades of brown.
    precisely, and I think labours wheels come off the bus when they need to say what they will do. I don't think the tories have any answers either but when times are bad most will vote tory rather than labour unless its clear one party has an actual answer as they will believe rightly or wrongly that no matter how bad things are labour will make it worse.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    Some of us have morals and basic decency...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506

    ydoethur said:

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
    SKS abandoned Socialism for Thatcherism first (the day after the leadership Election)

    Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.

    SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
    Fuck me, you're in deep shit now...
    No apologies Ms Rabbit
    None needed. I love all the crazy personalities and wide spread opinions on PB 🙂. You are the only Corbynista posting so keep your point of view about what change of policy is needed up on here. Maybe Nick Palmer also prefers a more left wing Labour manifesto. I’m not saying the gist of your argument is wrong - Labour we’re in power 13 years with huge working majorities, but they left many things as they inherited them that havn’t worked great for the last four decades - under New Labour there was a cartel of energy firms and suppliers nakedly ripping everyone off and even David Cameron got it for example.

    https://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-10-19/energy-secretary-silent-on-cameron-energy-remark/

    What was New Labours sop to the left apart from Ban on hunting with hounds?

    Another angle to it though we often wonder why all the polls shift without apparent reason, and it’s the fortnight drag from weeks ago into the polls phenomenon - it sounds unnecessary but it’s true.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    No one at all has any answers. It's all shades of brown.
    precisely, and I think labours wheels come off the bus when they need to say what they will do. I don't think the tories have any answers either but when times are bad most will vote tory rather than labour unless its clear one party has an actual answer as they will believe rightly or wrongly that no matter how bad things are labour will make it worse.
    I think that is a wrong attitude.
    Nevertheless. I suspect your analysis may be right.
    Labour only wins when it is able to project a positive view of the future. Unfortunately, there isn't a conceivable one. So we'll get another lying, cynical Tory one.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    Some of us have morals and basic decency...
    you are a lib dem though they have neither
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    From 3% last time you are referring to? And admitting the 34 and 33 Tory % in last two polls from this firm have swing back built in that possibly might never happen if Johnson is still there splitting the party?

    How more helpful and polite can I say this? 😆
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    No one at all has any answers. It's all shades of brown.
    precisely, and I think labours wheels come off the bus when they need to say what they will do. I don't think the tories have any answers either but when times are bad most will vote tory rather than labour unless its clear one party has an actual answer as they will believe rightly or wrongly that no matter how bad things are labour will make it worse.
    I think that is a wrong attitude.
    Nevertheless. I suspect your analysis may be right.
    Labour only wins when it is able to project a positive view of the future. Unfortunately, there isn't a conceivable one. So we'll get another lying, cynical Tory one.
    I don't actually have any attitude except our system of governance is not fit for the 21st century and the last people we should trust to govern us are the people who stand for election under our current system.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    No one at all has any answers. It's all shades of brown.
    precisely, and I think labours wheels come off the bus when they need to say what they will do. I don't think the tories have any answers either but when times are bad most will vote tory rather than labour unless its clear one party has an actual answer as they will believe rightly or wrongly that no matter how bad things are labour will make it worse.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyI1gxQU17I&t=79s
    Sorry cant be arsed to look something to say then say it
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    From 3% last time you are referring to? And admitting the 34 and 33 Tory % in last two polls from this firm have swing back built in that possibly might never happen if Johnson is still there splitting the party?

    How more helpful and polite can I say this? 😆
    What exactly have Opinium done to the headline figures?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    Maybe it’s the promise of Boris’ departure that closes the gap?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    No one at all has any answers. It's all shades of brown.
    precisely, and I think labours wheels come off the bus when they need to say what they will do. I don't think the tories have any answers either but when times are bad most will vote tory rather than labour unless its clear one party has an actual answer as they will believe rightly or wrongly that no matter how bad things are labour will make it worse.
    I think that is a wrong attitude.
    Nevertheless. I suspect your analysis may be right.
    Labour only wins when it is able to project a positive view of the future. Unfortunately, there isn't a conceivable one. So we'll get another lying, cynical Tory one.
    I don't actually have any attitude except our system of governance is not fit for the 21st century and the last people we should trust to govern us are the people who stand for election under our current system.
    Apologies. I wasn't meaning your attitude. But the attitudes of voters you accurately described in your post. We are actually agreeing here. Except I think we'd be better with Labour. That's opinion. On the analysis we don't disagree at all.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    From 3% last time you are referring to? And admitting the 34 and 33 Tory % in last two polls from this firm have swing back built in that possibly might never happen if Johnson is still there splitting the party?

    How more helpful and polite can I say this? 😆
    What exactly have Opinium done to the headline figures?
    They've got new methodology.
    Like to see polling which hasn't. It may be wildly wrong, but at least it shows trends...
    Opinium has been returning 2-4 point leads since they changed. Therefore, today's poll is an MoE movement only.
  • EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    From 3% last time you are referring to? And admitting the 34 and 33 Tory % in last two polls from this firm have swing back built in that possibly might never happen if Johnson is still there splitting the party?

    How more helpful and polite can I say this? 😆
    What exactly have Opinium done to the headline figures?
    We want to know how people would vote if there was a general election tomorrow not how opinion polling companies think they will vote when the opinion polling companies think the next election will be. We may if we wish expect a swingback from mid-term unpopularity as the next election approaches, but if we choose to do that we will be double counting.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    No one at all has any answers. It's all shades of brown.
    precisely, and I think labours wheels come off the bus when they need to say what they will do. I don't think the tories have any answers either but when times are bad most will vote tory rather than labour unless its clear one party has an actual answer as they will believe rightly or wrongly that no matter how bad things are labour will make it worse.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyI1gxQU17I&t=79s
    Sorry cant be arsed to look something to say then say it
    I'm saying your run-on sentence was horrific.
    Only because you don't want tories again. However I think its going to prove accurate
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    dixiedean said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    From 3% last time you are referring to? And admitting the 34 and 33 Tory % in last two polls from this firm have swing back built in that possibly might never happen if Johnson is still there splitting the party?

    How more helpful and polite can I say this? 😆
    What exactly have Opinium done to the headline figures?
    They've got new methodology.
    They call it building in swingback. They get the raw figures sort of in line with the 6 7 8’s everyone else reporting, and work under the bonnet on idea governments “always” get a certain swing back once elections are announced and campaigns underway, this firm reckon they can say know how much and adjust it into the figures their survey actually returned. I think the mainstream media are more grown up about this these days so you won’t see any silly “labour lead slashed to two” headlines from them like some posts here this evening.

    I love this poll, and the fact it’s two a month, because it’s always so predictable for the better and smarter poll analysts (like I was spot on tonight) so I really feel if the headline figures for each party show a consistent shift in this one we can believe it’s going on.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022
    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Doesn't matter if it is....labour has no answers to the cost of living and everyone one knows they are total planks, they will take one look at the manifesto and go yeah no thanks. I want tories out of power....I despise them just labour is worse and lib dems are beyond condemnation.

    For most people in this country now the election is do you want syphilis , gonorhea or herpes
    No one at all has any answers. It's all shades of brown.
    precisely, and I think labours wheels come off the bus when they need to say what they will do. I don't think the tories have any answers either but when times are bad most will vote tory rather than labour unless its clear one party has an actual answer as they will believe rightly or wrongly that no matter how bad things are labour will make it worse.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyI1gxQU17I&t=79s
    Sorry cant be arsed to look something to say then say it
    I'm saying your run-on sentence was horrific.
    Only because you don't want tories again. However I think its going to prove accurate
    Which would be a nightmare. 5 more years of breaking the law, adjusting the voting system and openly funnelling huge quantities of cash to their mates. And their wives and children.
    Whilst openly laughing at everyone else for their stupidity at playing by the rules.
    Boring leader and trans people, mind. That Boris is a laugh.
  • EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    From 3% last time you are referring to? And admitting the 34 and 33 Tory % in last two polls from this firm have swing back built in that possibly might never happen if Johnson is still there splitting the party?

    How more helpful and polite can I say this? 😆
    What exactly have Opinium done to the headline figures?
    We want to know how people would vote if there was a general election tomorrow not how opinion polling companies think they will vote when the opinion polling companies think the next election will be. We may if we wish expect a swingback from mid-term unpopularity as the next election approaches, but if we choose to do that we will be double counting.
    Agreed
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587


    Is Hull a Red Wall seat?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    dixiedean said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    From 3% last time you are referring to? And admitting the 34 and 33 Tory % in last two polls from this firm have swing back built in that possibly might never happen if Johnson is still there splitting the party?

    How more helpful and polite can I say this? 😆
    What exactly have Opinium done to the headline figures?
    They've got new methodology.
    They call it building in swingback. They get the raw figures sort of in line with the 6 7 8’s everyone else reporting, and work under the bonnet on idea governments “always” get a certain swing back once elections are announced and campaigns underway, this firm reckon they can say know how much and adjust it into the figures their survey actually returned. I think the mainstream media are more grown up about this these days so you won’t see any silly “labour lead slashed to two” headlines from them like some posts here this evening.

    I love this poll, and the fact it’s two a month, because it’s always so predictable for the better and smarter poll analysts (like I was spot on tonight) so I really feel if the headline figures for each party show a consistent shift in this one we can believe it’s going on.
    Yes.
    In that sense it is showing no change.
    The stability of the polling is actually the great mystery right now.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,662
    Alistair said:
    Heh. I've only ever been in the one facing Nicolson Street, with the green signs. Is that the one you're supposed to go to? I've forgotten what the controversy was.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    dixiedean said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    From 3% last time you are referring to? And admitting the 34 and 33 Tory % in last two polls from this firm have swing back built in that possibly might never happen if Johnson is still there splitting the party?

    How more helpful and polite can I say this? 😆
    What exactly have Opinium done to the headline figures?
    They've got new methodology.
    They call it building in swingback. They get the raw figures sort of in line with the 6 7 8’s everyone else reporting, and work under the bonnet on idea governments “always” get a certain swing back once elections are announced and campaigns underway, this firm reckon they can say know how much and adjust it into the figures their survey actually returned. I think the mainstream media are more grown up about this these days so you won’t see any silly “labour lead slashed to two” headlines from them like some posts here this evening.

    I love this poll, and the fact it’s two a month, because it’s always so predictable for the better and smarter poll analysts (like I was spot on tonight) so I really feel if the headline figures for each party show a consistent shift in this one we can believe it’s going on.
    I call it luck! :lol:
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    edited June 2022
    How damaging to the Tories is this coming announcement on Farming, Food and Environment?

    With a bit of skin in this game I think it’s a bit dangerous for Tories not to follow through on Brexit promises on farming and food production and fishing etc - there’s lots of constituency’s that could change hands if the policy is as much a dogs dinner as now being reported, much more than they think.

    image
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    SIX MONTHS and FIVE DAYS since the last Tory poll lead...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    carnforth said:



    Is Hull a Red Wall seat?

    Sunday Sport has a believable headline?
    Sign of the end times.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    How damaging to the Tories is this coming announcement on Farming, Food and Environment?

    With a bit of skin in this game I think it’s a bit dangerous for Tories not to follow through on Brexit promises on farming and food production and fishing etc - there’s lots of constituency’s that could change hands if the policy is as much a dogs dinner as now being reported, much more than they think.

    image

    It's beyond embarrassing now. Every day another announcement plucked out of thin air or from the wastebasket of stupid ideas rejected for the next manifesto. Anything. Literally anything to give the press something to print.

    One bonkers idea after another.

    No direction. No vision. No purpose. No point.

    The albatross continues to rot around the party's neck.


  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Eabhal said:

    Alistair said:
    Heh. I've only ever been in the one facing Nicolson Street, with the green signs. Is that the one you're supposed to go to? I've forgotten what the controversy was.
    I've (almost) always gone to the one at the mosque as it is tastier.

    I was told it was a family feud but i have no idea the details or if it is true.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    I know very little about the modern Church, but its internal politics have historically been titanically vicious over the centuries, with a great many popes very unpopular with the bureaucracy, but this piece full of accusations of the current pope's alleged cruelty, bullying and vindictiveness (of his church opponents) is certainly not something I had stumbled across before.

    https://unherd.com/2022/06/is-this-the-end-of-pope-francis/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    Pagan2 said:

    Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair

    You do know as soon as labour releases a manifesto they are going to plummet I assume....they are polling well till they actually say what they will do then people will go nah fuck off idiots
    The manifesto will be pure vanilla. No idiocy to scare people.
    Historically a successful choice I believe.

    Sure it can mean little of idea from anyone, including the new government, about what it will do, but plans often go awry anyway, and that's a problem for another day.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    The problem with Heather Wheeler's comments is that the main town in her constituency is Swadlincote in Derbyshire which isn't exactly known for its beauty.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
    I confess, I'm a bit lost now.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens
    The book is outstanding, and the Amazon show is surprisingly good. I'm still struggling with how they are making a sequel.
    They are probably struggling with how to do it too, even with some notes.

    I was very satisfied with the adaptation. I've probably read the book more than any other I own.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    edited June 2022

    dixiedean said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    From 3% last time you are referring to? And admitting the 34 and 33 Tory % in last two polls from this firm have swing back built in that possibly might never happen if Johnson is still there splitting the party?

    How more helpful and polite can I say this? 😆
    What exactly have Opinium done to the headline figures?
    They've got new methodology.
    They call it building in swingback. They get the raw figures sort of in line with the 6 7 8’s everyone else reporting, and work under the bonnet on idea governments “always” get a certain swing back once elections are announced and campaigns underway, this firm reckon they can say know how much and adjust it into the figures their survey actually returned. I think the mainstream media are more grown up about this these days so you won’t see any silly “labour lead slashed to two” headlines from them like some posts here this evening.

    I love this poll, and the fact it’s two a month, because it’s always so predictable for the better and smarter poll analysts (like I was spot on tonight) so I really feel if the headline figures for each party show a consistent shift in this one we can believe it’s going on.
    I call it luck! :lol:
    It’s actually easy Sunhil. The gaps never been more than 4, labour never more than 38, Tories never lower than the 33 last time that was 33 playing 36, and post vonc polls from other firms, though not many, have been static (let’s see what happens after two weeks) It was easy, and why this poll will be the one to quickly reveal the % for each party is on the move.

    I’ll show you how easy it is by telling you the result of the next Opinium poll right here right now. Labour 37/38, Tories 34/33. And I’ll explain why. The post vonc narrative now building and will dominate next few weeks of a governing party split and at war, with awful impact on policies, will feed into that next poll, but it will be surprising if it shifts this methodology more than into gap of 3 or 4.

    By all means keep this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 2022
    kle4 said:

    I know very little about the modern Church, but its internal politics have historically been titanically vicious over the centuries, with a great many popes very unpopular with the bureaucracy, but this piece full of accusations of the current pope's alleged cruelty, bullying and vindictiveness (of his church opponents) is certainly not something I had stumbled across before.

    https://unherd.com/2022/06/is-this-the-end-of-pope-francis/

    No surprise, as its author is Damian Thomson, an arch conservative, traditionalist and loyalist to Pope Benedict who has long been very critical of the more liberal approach taken by Pope Francis
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    The problem with Heather Wheeler's comments is that the main town in her constituency is Swadlincote in Derbyshire which isn't exactly known for its beauty.
    But it is where the nativity story is set:

    "They wrapped him in Swadlincote and laid him in a manger."

    Goodnight!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506

    How damaging to the Tories is this coming announcement on Farming, Food and Environment?

    With a bit of skin in this game I think it’s a bit dangerous for Tories not to follow through on Brexit promises on farming and food production and fishing etc - there’s lots of constituency’s that could change hands if the policy is as much a dogs dinner as now being reported, much more than they think.

    image

    It's beyond embarrassing now. Every day another announcement plucked out of thin air or from the wastebasket of stupid ideas rejected for the next manifesto. Anything. Literally anything to give the press something to print.

    One bonkers idea after another.

    No direction. No vision. No purpose. No point.

    The albatross continues to rot around the party's neck.


    Eat more Venison to save the planet seems to be the headline they want out there. Which is odd for HUGE policy announcement across several important industries wanting reassurance post Brexit, and not getting it.

    I think I am saying same thing as you, but I’ve never been much of a drama queen 😇
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    The problem with Heather Wheeler's comments is that the main town in her constituency is Swadlincote in Derbyshire which isn't exactly known for its beauty.
    But it is where the nativity story is set:

    "They wrapped him in Swadlincote and laid him in a manger."

    Goodnight!
    The story I think you should have dome is of the woman on the island doing such good work for God he blessed the well so it’s the best beer in world from the water 🍺
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Johnson cuts the Labour lead to just 2% with Opinium tonight after winning his VONC last week.

    Still yet another PB thread predicting his demise

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1535698379703037952?s=20&t=g5Q5K-mgRBs0Yp4BeQrdKQ

    From 3% last time you are referring to? And admitting the 34 and 33 Tory % in last two polls from this firm have swing back built in that possibly might never happen if Johnson is still there splitting the party?

    How more helpful and polite can I say this? 😆
    What exactly have Opinium done to the headline figures?
    They've got new methodology.
    They call it building in swingback. They get the raw figures sort of in line with the 6 7 8’s everyone else reporting, and work under the bonnet on idea governments “always” get a certain swing back once elections are announced and campaigns underway, this firm reckon they can say know how much and adjust it into the figures their survey actually returned. I think the mainstream media are more grown up about this these days so you won’t see any silly “labour lead slashed to two” headlines from them like some posts here this evening.

    I love this poll, and the fact it’s two a month, because it’s always so predictable for the better and smarter poll analysts (like I was spot on tonight) so I really feel if the headline figures for each party show a consistent shift in this one we can believe it’s going on.
    Yes.
    In that sense it is showing no change.
    The stability of the polling is actually the great mystery right now.
    Not to dixiedean who posts here, he’s always talking about this mysterious 2 / 3 week lag.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    The problem with Heather Wheeler's comments is that the main town in her constituency is Swadlincote in Derbyshire which isn't exactly known for its beauty.
    Never heard of it, if I'm honest.
    If it's anything like Blackpool, though, it can fuck right off.
    Seriously? She's from Swadlincote? No fecking offence, but if she thinks her dull, shitey e mids market town is a better than Birmingham then she was born blind.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    The problem with Heather Wheeler's comments is that the main town in her constituency is Swadlincote in Derbyshire which isn't exactly known for its beauty.
    Never heard of it, if I'm honest.
    If it's anything like Blackpool, though, it can fuck right off.
    It's not that far from me. An old pit village, but quite gentrified now.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,828
    What can we expect with the Protocol bill come Monday? Failure in the Commons? It's difficult to see how a PM who's had 40% of his MPs no confidence him can pass controversial legislation.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    I see from tomorrow's Mail that Johnson' attack on the monarchy, just a week after Platinum Jubilee, is now in full swing.

    As he has attacked or broken or fecked up every single other institution then why not the ultimate one, the monarchy?

    When will Tory members wake up to the destruction this man is wreaking across everything they believe in?
This discussion has been closed.