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Johnson could face a confidence vote from the Tory grassroots – politicalbetting.com

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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    Leon said:

    A painting by Aleister Crowley in the Abbey of Thelema in Cefalu, Sicily. This is in the goat-rape-cats-blood-murder room


    I wonder if Putin has a stray missile.
  • algarkirk said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.

    It IS in Lancashire! Well, half of it - the Lancashire / Yorkshire border passing through the town hall.

    EDIT and Saddleworth is Yorkshire.
    OMG! Ingleton is 100% Yorkshire.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022

    algarkirk said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.

    It IS in Lancashire! Well, half of it - the Lancashire / Yorkshire border passing through the town hall.

    EDIT and Saddleworth is Yorkshire.
    Wasn't Mossley part in Lancs, part in Yorks and part in Cheshire?

    Seems so from wiki.

    "The historic counties of Lancashire, Cheshire and the West Riding of Yorkshire meet in Mossley and local government wards and church parishes correspond to their boundaries."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,278

    Leon said:

    A painting by Aleister Crowley in the Abbey of Thelema in Cefalu, Sicily. This is in the goat-rape-cats-blood-murder room


    I wonder if Putin has a stray missile.
    It is one of the spookiest places I’ve ever been. The fact I had to break in made it only spookier

    I have several photos of my visit - I wish I’d taken more. Googling it now it looks like all the paintings and murals have been horribly defaced and have essentially vanished. They had no artistic value, Crowley was as bad an artist as he was a poet, but the historical cultural value is immense

    So much of modern western counter culture descends from Crowley and the Golden Dawn. He was a massive influence on Bowie and Led Zep, for s start


    https://www.ilikeyouroldstuff.com/news/how-aleister-crowley-influenced-six-of-your-favourite-rock-bands
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
    No. Don't be a twit. I am objecting to an argument that you will often see made, here and elsewhere

    Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
    All of which is actually true, and is a reason to not see the Atlantic slave trade as a 'unique' evil for which Britain alone needs to be punished, as some of the dumber elements of the left want to.

    To come back to your original point, can I ask what happened to the bodies of the murdered Jews? Were they rendered down, the fat used for soap, the hair used to make blankets, and the teeth taken to make dentures?

    If not I suggest the Holocaust still rather stands out.
    Not the point, really. And I am offering death camps, and Jew deportations, as two separate facts of ancient history

    My point is really just that the British Empire like every other empire known to history was about wealth and power, not about making the world a better place. And the triangular trade was actually a new development in evil: fat cats in continent A shipping bods from continent B to continent C because there was a lot of money to be made from people liking a spoon full of sugar in their tea. I don’t expect anyone to feel guilty about it any more than I expect the present generation of Germans to feel guilty about anything. I just get pissed off by the claim that the slave trade was either not a great evil, or not the backbone of the British Empire
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354
    edited June 2022
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    @IshmaelZ posing that question about Norman slavery led me to think of something else, which I will admit I hadn't thought of for years - when was villeinage actually abolished in England?

    The traditional view is it died with the Black Death. That was proved to be wrong in the 1960s when an examination of the records of the palatinate of Durham revealed it was more tightly controlled, due to the shortage of labour making villeins a more valuable resource.

    But I am astonished to find that there is a record of Elizabeth I paying a certain Sir Henry Lee (presumably this one) very handsomely indeed to manumit 300 villeins as late as 1575.

    I had no idea it lasted so deep into the Tudor era. I assumed the parish system of poor relief was the last vestige of it. But apparently not.

    English land law being what it is (and villeins were land, pretty much) probably in the Settled Land Act 1925
    I would have guessed it would actually have been abolished by Cromwell, if it had still been in force. It would certainly have been abolished under the Slavery Abolition Act 1833 if it had not been abolished before, although there were many slaves in Britain itself at that time.
    Technically, I think villeinage was brought to an end in 1922-25, practically, in the sixteenth century.

    After 1350, society pulled in two ways. On the one hand, lords of the manor were bidding for labour, and willing to offer concessions to villeins to stop them running away from the manor. On the other, Parliament was clamping down on the labourers, trying to tie them to the land, and regulate wages. Often the same MP might be passing legislation to stop wage increases, while paying extra wages to keep his own estates functioning. Men might be villeins on one manor, and free tenants on another.

    Juliet Barker details this very well in her book on the Peasants' Revolt (which was more accurately speaking, a lower middle class, minor gentry revolt). That's a good example of a revolt taking place because things are getting better, rather than because things are getting worse.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022
    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.

    It IS in Lancashire! Well, half of it - the Lancashire / Yorkshire border passing through the town hall.

    EDIT and Saddleworth is Yorkshire.
    Wasn't Mossley part in Lancs, part in Yorks and part in Cheshire?

    Seems so from wiki.

    "The historic counties of Lancashire, Cheshire and the West Riding of Yorkshire meet in Mossley and local government wards and church parishes correspond to their boundaries."
    Stockport had bits in Lancashire too. And Warrington had parts in Cheshire.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    A discrete existence? Alternative branch of the multiverse? From the Times?

    I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
    Who have you cast as Richard III in the elimination of this duke of York?
    Modern history is a mystery to me

    But, changing topic, is this roughly right?

    https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds

    If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
    The Church preached against the enslavement of Christians. Chattel slavery was pretty well illegal throughout Western Europe by 1150. But, it was lawful to enslave pagans and infidels, and most conveniently for slavers, black Africans fell into those categories.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    edited June 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
    No. Don't be a twit. I am objecting to an argument that you will often see made, here and elsewhere

    Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
    All of which is actually true, and is a reason to not see the Atlantic slave trade as a 'unique' evil for which Britain alone needs to be punished, as some of the dumber elements of the left want to.

    To come back to your original point, can I ask what happened to the bodies of the murdered Jews? Were they rendered down, the fat used for soap, the hair used to make blankets, and the teeth taken to make dentures?

    If not I suggest the Holocaust still rather stands out.
    Not the point, really. And I am offering death camps, and Jew deportations, as two separate facts of ancient history

    My point is really just that the British Empire like every other empire known to history was about wealth and power, not about making the world a better place. And the triangular trade was actually a new development in evil: fat cats in continent A shipping bods from continent B to continent C because there was a lot of money to be made from people liking a spoon full of sugar in their tea. I don’t expect anyone to feel guilty about it any more than I expect the present generation of Germans to feel guilty about anything. I just get pissed off by the claim that the slave trade was either not a great evil, or not the backbone of the British Empire
    That the triangular trade got into its stride pretty much at the same time as the Enlightenment did adds a certain je ne sais quoi I feel.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    edited June 2022
    The Opiniom!

    I predict to continue as bad polls for Labour. If it bigger lead than 4, Tory’s below 33, or labour higher than 37, I’ll be surprised considering bad Labour polling from other pollsters recently.
  • Bet on a Tory poll lead?
  • Johnson’s poor approval ratings have improved slightly at -27, compared with -30 two weeks ago. Starmer holds an approval rating of -6, unchanged from two weeks ago.

    While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
    No. Don't be a twit. I am objecting to an argument that you will often see made, here and elsewhere

    Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
    All of which is actually true, and is a reason to not see the Atlantic slave trade as a 'unique' evil for which Britain alone needs to be punished, as some of the dumber elements of the left want to.

    To come back to your original point, can I ask what happened to the bodies of the murdered Jews? Were they rendered down, the fat used for soap, the hair used to make blankets, and the teeth taken to make dentures?

    If not I suggest the Holocaust still rather stands out.
    Not the point, really. And I am offering death camps, and Jew deportations, as two separate facts of ancient history

    My point is really just that the British Empire like every other empire known to history was about wealth and power, not about making the world a better place. And the triangular trade was actually a new development in evil: fat cats in continent A shipping bods from continent B to continent C because there was a lot of money to be made from people liking a spoon full of sugar in their tea. I don’t expect anyone to feel guilty about it any more than I expect the present generation of Germans to feel guilty about anything. I just get pissed off by the claim that the slave trade was either not a great evil, or not the backbone of the British Empire
    That the triangular trade got into its stride pretty much at the same time as the Enlightenment did adds a certain je ne sais quoi I feel.
    Many of the pseudo-scientific justifications for the Holocaust grew out of the work of Charles Darwin.

    History is full of ironies. My favourite is Richard III, seizing the throne to secure his position and his lands, ended up being overthrown and losing everything.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    edited June 2022

    Bet on a Tory poll lead?

    No I think, 36 or 37 to Boris on 34.

    Usually comes any second now don’t it? Let’s do the F A cup wiggly fingers bit. Wooooooooooooooo
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022

    The Opiniom!

    I predict to continue as bad polls for Labour. If it bigger than 4, Tory’s below 33, or labour higher than 37, I’m be surprised considering bad Labour polling from other pollsters recently.

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 36% (=)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDM: 13% (+2)

    Via @OpiniumResearch, 8-10 Jun.
    Changes w/ 25-27 May.

    Holding pattern continues

    Edit - Green 6, SNP 3
  • A senior Labour source said: “We know what needs to be done between now and the next election and are ticking everything off on the list.

    “If you had said the morning after the 2019 election Labour could be back in one term, people would have laughed at you.

    “But the work that Keir has been doing to reform the party, often without fanfare, means that we can seriously talk about winning the next election. The fact we’ve climbed out of the hole we were in was never a given.

    “Having dealt with the party machinery at the last conference, the plan was always that the next one will focus on setting out our plans for Britain. There’s no complacency but we remain confident of the strategy we have to get Keir to No 10.”
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    edited June 2022

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    I was spot on!

    I’m so Bloody brilliant 😌
  • SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Selective polling continues. You are boring
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    dixiedean said:

    algarkirk said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.

    It IS in Lancashire! Well, half of it - the Lancashire / Yorkshire border passing through the town hall.

    EDIT and Saddleworth is Yorkshire.
    Wasn't Mossley part in Lancs, part in Yorks and part in Cheshire?

    Seems so from wiki.

    "The historic counties of Lancashire, Cheshire and the West Riding of Yorkshire meet in Mossley and local government wards and church parishes correspond to their boundaries."
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1njpbeGN5Qu0H4MPZW5ZQBCyEWso&hl=en&ll=53.98841354269424,-1.2518224999999905&z=8
  • Similary, @Keir_Starmer's approval rating remains level on -6.

    30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
    36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)

    And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Must be an outlier :lol:
  • I don’t get this Keir is drag on Labour. His ratings are good
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061



    While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

    That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances.........
    Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour


  • While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

    That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances.........
    Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
    You were waiting for this.

    If he wants to go let’s get Wes in
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Selective polling continues. You are boring
    SKS is far more boring surely!!

    Lab are going to get an absolute tonking at the GE if they are only 2% ahead days after 41% of Tory MPs had no confidence in Boris
  • SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Selective polling continues. You are boring
    SKS is far more boring surely!!

    Lab are going to get an absolute tonking at the GE if they are only 2% ahead days after 41% of Tory MPs had no confidence in Boris
    I post all polls.

    You post the ones which you like.

    You aren’t serious about anything.
  • Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting
  • https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1535700931421020160

    Labour has improved a lot in the polls since the last election, but why aren't they doing better?

    Here are the top problems that soft Conservative voters have with the Labour Party.

    BJO is in denial of course
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506



    While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

    That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances.........
    Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
    How much of the whole poll has swingback built in?

    We agree the lead is actually 6% and Opinion ultra tough on Labour lead and shares, but there’s definitely drop off in Tory support in their sequence of polls, with that swing back built in, I reckon the raw figure (which they never share now?) before under the bonnet sorcery is much larger than 6. the 55% alliance figure is very consistent in the sequence.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Must be an outlier :lol:
    If it was an outlier I would been able to predict it spot on would I?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited June 2022

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Selective polling continues. You are boring
    SKS is far more boring surely!!

    Lab are going to get an absolute tonking at the GE if they are only 2% ahead days after 41% of Tory MPs had no confidence in Boris
    Opinium methodology shows a smaller Labour lead when compared to other pollsters. The old Opinium methodology would probably show a 10% lead. Would Labour be on course for an absolute tonking then?

    The mean Labour lead of 5-6% is not great but certainly not a disaster.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    All reported over the last couple of days:

    *Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes
    *NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result
    *Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies)
    *Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving
    *Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England

    Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Surprising. But you do get outliers from time to time.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061



    While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

    That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances.........
    Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
    You were waiting for this.

    If he wants to go let’s get Wes in
    I honestly dont know what to make of it Horse, it doesnt make any sense to me. I really dislike SKS, sure, but i still think BJ is a foul disaster.
    It suggests either BJ has some shy tory style appeal still or is generally more durable with voters or SKS is really not that well thought if, or is seen as very uninspiring.
    The figures arent compatible with the situation as generally understood and accepted by us
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Must be an outlier :lol:
    If it was an outlier I would been able to predict it spot on would I?
    I call it luck :)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.

    The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/poll-says-keir-starmer-worse-choice-for-pm-than-boris-johnson
  • So here a question.

    In 1997 polls had Labour 30 points ahead.

    Yet they won 43 to 29, far less than that.

    Poor methodology? Should Labour be doing that well because of error or are the polls better so they shouldn’t be 30 points ahead and instead we can trust 10+ is accurate?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    pigeon said:

    All reported over the last couple of days:

    *Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes
    *NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result
    *Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies)
    *Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving
    *Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England

    Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.

    This is the post of the day! Very dark days ahead.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Selective polling continues. You are boring
    SKS is far more boring surely!!

    Lab are going to get an absolute tonking at the GE if they are only 2% ahead days after 41% of Tory MPs had no confidence in Boris
    I post all polls.

    You post the ones which you like.

    You aren’t serious about anything.
    Well I am pretty sure you will think i am making this up but I assure you I am not

    My Lab MP rang me last Saturday to ask if i would be willing to stand for Lab in a By Election in the Ward where i live.

    I explained I had resigned my Membership thanks to my opinion of SKS and wouldn;t be willing to rejoin.

    He said he knew I had resigned my Membership but asked me to stand anyway.

    I didnt even know an election was imminent , turns out nominations were closing 48 hrs later

    My MP and the Labour Canvassers who came knocking on Thursday this week believe I am serious.

    Very serious about wanting Labour to lose
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Must be an outlier :lol:
    If it was an outlier I would been able to predict it spot on would I?
    Your prediction was an outlier
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022

    So here a question.

    In 1997 polls had Labour 30 points ahead.

    Yet they won 43 to 29, far less than that.

    Poor methodology? Should Labour be doing that well because of error or are the polls better so they shouldn’t be 30 points ahead and instead we can trust 10+ is accurate?

    I think it was disenchanted Tories who were non voters in opinion polls 93 to 97 turning out terrified of a 300 majority one party state because some disappeared in 2001 when the Labour surge of numbers also fell back by 3 million. It was a stop a slaughter turnout that partially worked in that it prevented a complete wipeout
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,256
    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    I don’t believe anyone here has argued that the British slave trade was ok. Like the holocaust it was the application of modern methods to an ancient evil.

    On the flip side many Brits recognised what was being done was wrong and convinced the government to not only ban slavery in the UK, but to use state assets to interdict the trade. That was a great thing.

    As with everything in history it’s complicated. But the modern day focus on the triangular trade, ignoring the existence of slavery in history and today, and ignoring the actions of the abolitionists is unbalanced and worth criticising.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.

    The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/poll-says-keir-starmer-worse-choice-for-pm-than-boris-johnson

    A lot of that is the "Devil You Know" argument.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,278
    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.

    The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/poll-says-keir-starmer-worse-choice-for-pm-than-boris-johnson

    Astonishing and unexpected

    Labour should be way ahead but Starmer is failing to cut it

    I still want Boris out but @ HYUFD will be along shortly to say I told you so
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785

    Speaking of odds, I think there is a 90 percent chance of bacterial life, on Mars -- and less than a 5 percent chance of anything higher.

    (And for some of the outer solar system moons with water? I don't know enough to have an opinion, other than, it's possible.)

    (from previous thread) If you enjoy sci-fi (especially low-budget-but-serious) then 'Europa Report' is worth a watch on this subject.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    pigeon said:

    All reported over the last couple of days:

    *Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes
    *NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result
    *Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies)
    *Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving
    *Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England

    Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.

    Big problems coming in schools as well. Not enough trainees coming through and higher than usual numbers of departures.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    So here a question.

    In 1997 polls had Labour 30 points ahead.

    Yet they won 43 to 29, far less than that.

    Poor methodology? Should Labour be doing that well because of error or are the polls better so they shouldn’t be 30 points ahead and instead we can trust 10+ is accurate?

    I think it was disenchanted Tories who were non voters in opinion polls 93 to 97 turning out terrified of a 300 majority one party state because some disappeared in 2001 when the Labour surge of numbers also fell back by 3 million. It was a stop a slaughter turnout that partially worked in that it prevented a complete wipeout
    They were trying to win it for the Tories.
    There was quite a belief, even on election day that they could still win. Mid point estimate was about 50 majority ISTR. Much smaller than the results.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    I wonder if the Lab Candidate knows the MP was touting a non Party member to stand 48 hours before this.

    She lives on the other side of Town and I understand nobody from the Labour Branch i belonged to and where the contest is was willing to stand.

    Easy decision for me on who to vote for

    https://www.chesterfield.gov.uk/media/1996520/statement-of-persons-nominated.pdf
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    This is not news though. Been known for some time iirc.

    Of course many of the Nazi loved dabbling with the occult and nordic/aryan myths and so on.

    Quite clearly Putin's regime is as close to Nazi thinking as anything since the end of the War. By a mile.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022



    While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

    That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances.........
    Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
    How much of the whole poll has swingback built in?

    We agree the lead is actually 6% and Opinion ultra tough on Labour lead and shares, but there’s definitely drop off in Tory support in their sequence of polls, with that swing back built in, I reckon the raw figure (which they never share now?) before under the bonnet sorcery is much larger than 6. the 55% alliance figure is very consistent in the sequence.
    I dont know Rabbit. It all feels very holding pattern. Since the VONC we have redfield -2, Techne and Opinium +1 for Tories, margin of error stuff. Tories near their basement and Labour not convincing the electorate enough?
    The ComRes looks the outlier, everything else bouncing about the 6 or 7 lead (with opiniums different methofology keeping it 2 to 5 range).
    But im not sure. The best PM figure suggests labour would struggle to build a massive lead at the moment, but maybe a Zelensky/war leader mini effect is artificially boosting him for now?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    I don’t believe anyone here has argued that the British slave trade was ok. Like the holocaust it was the application of modern methods to an ancient evil.

    On the flip side many Brits recognised what was being done was wrong and convinced the government to not only ban slavery in the UK, but to use state assets to interdict the trade. That was a great thing.

    As with everything in history it’s complicated. But the modern day focus on the triangular trade, ignoring the existence of slavery in history and today, and ignoring the actions of the abolitionists is unbalanced and worth criticising.
    Disagree. As I have said, the triangular trade was unique: there's ancient analogues for economic slavery (m Eastern grain civilisations going to war to get slaves as agricultural workers) but not for the sheer frivolity of wanting to sell people sugar. And people who profess both Christian and enlightenment values get judged by those values, irrespective of what anyone else did in the past
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    pigeon said:

    All reported over the last couple of days:

    *Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes
    *NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result
    *Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies)
    *Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving
    *Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England

    Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.

    We have a bunch of untalented, entitled non-entities in charge surrounding themselves with Yes-Men whilst plundering the place to line their own pockets and that of the elderly who vote for them.

    It was never going to end well. The only question is how extensive the wreckage is and who has to pick up the pieces.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    SHS massive drag on Lab performance

    Poll says Keir Starmer worse choice for PM than Boris Johnson
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153



    While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

    That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances.........
    Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
    Wasn't Callaghan fifteen or twenty points ahead of Thatcher on the eve of the 1979 election?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,278

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    This is not news though. Been known for some time iirc.

    Of course many of the Nazi loved dabbling with the occult and nordic/aryan myths and so on.

    Quite clearly Putin's regime is as close to Nazi thinking as anything since the end of the War. By a mile.
    It’s news to me that Putin is LITERALLY INSPIRED BY PERVERTED ENGLISH ARISTO SATANISTS WHO FED BIRDS TO SKELETONS and got GOATS TO RAPE THEIR COCAINE-ADDICTED WIVES

    it’s just the greatest Daily Mail story EVER

    The invasion of Ukraine isn’t just the work of the devil, it is ACTUALLY THE WORK OF THE DEVIL
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.

    The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/poll-says-keir-starmer-worse-choice-for-pm-than-boris-johnson



    Labour should be way ahead but Starmer is failing to cut it

    I still want Boris out but @ HYUFD will be along shortly to say I told you so
    In the meantime you will have to put up with me
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    murali_s said:

    pigeon said:

    All reported over the last couple of days:

    *Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes
    *NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result
    *Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies)
    *Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving
    *Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England

    Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.

    This is the post of the day! Very dark days ahead.
    I know they all touched by the 'it could be me in the history books' thing but frankly who would want to take over as PM with all this coming?

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.

    The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/poll-says-keir-starmer-worse-choice-for-pm-than-boris-johnson



    Labour should be way ahead but Starmer is failing to cut it

    I still want Boris out but @ HYUFD will be along shortly to say I told you so
    In the meantime you will have to put up with me
    I always listen to you @bigjohnowls
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874


    I think it was disenchanted Tories who were non voters in opinion polls 93 to 97 turning out terrified of a 300 majority one party state because some disappeared in 2001 when the Labour surge of numbers also fell back by 3 million. It was a stop a slaughter turnout that partially worked in that it prevented a complete wipeout

    I'm sorry but that is just inaccurate and incorrect.

    We know the sampling methodology for polling in the 90s was far from as sophisticated as it is today. Some groups were wholly under-represented, others over-represented. Part of what happened from 92-97 was to make up for the polling disaster of 1992.

    I'd argue a contrary position - I think a lot of possible Labour voters stayed at home because they were so certain of victory. Turnout was well down on 1992 and that can't be blamed solely on disaffected Conservatives. Indeed, post-election polling in both 1997 and 2001 showed of those who didn't vote, 2/3 were going to vote Labour so had more people voted the result would have been worse for the Conservatives.

    2001 was an greater example of voter apathy (turnout sub 60%) because the outcome was in no doubt. Indeed, I'd argue the 2001 result was worse for the Conservatives than 1997 and in a number of southern seats, the Conservatives went backward from 1997.

    Conversely, you can see the first signs of the political shift in parts of the north and the midlands looking at the 2001 result as the Conservative vote share began the long journey up which would break the so-called "Red Wall" a generation later.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    rcs1000 said:



    While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

    That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances.........
    Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
    Wasn't Callaghan fifteen or twenty points ahead of Thatcher on the eve of the 1979 election?
    True but its not generslly the way is it? And Jim was a good bloke tbf
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    rcs1000 said:



    While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

    That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances.........
    Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
    Wasn't Callaghan fifteen or twenty points ahead of Thatcher on the eve of the 1979 election?
    True but its not generslly the way is it? And Jim was a good bloke tbf
    Jim also faced a cost of living crisis caused by a massive reduction in the quantity of oil & gas available to import, albeit in his case it was due to the beginnings of Iranian revolution.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    You mean the city of Avdiika which has a large coke plant which provides heat for the town via natural gas (apparently).
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    Not a BoJo fan as such but on Policy at the moment he is to the left of SKS and has implemented half of Corbyns Manifesto that SKS has dropped now the Leadership Election is done
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
    You make an excellent point.

    And without Neil Gaiman, would I ever have discovered Amanda Palmer?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,278
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    His poetry was awful, his paintings were worse, he has a weird squeaky voice (check recordings) and apparently he suffered awful halitosis

    And yet he hypnotised many people - nubile women into his late 60s - and he exerts a remarkable influence on our culture to this day. And now it turns out he may be in some senses responsible for the Invasion of Ukraine

    Chapeau, I say. Chapeau

    I always wondered what happened to the goat
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022
    stodge said:


    I think it was disenchanted Tories who were non voters in opinion polls 93 to 97 turning out terrified of a 300 majority one party state because some disappeared in 2001 when the Labour surge of numbers also fell back by 3 million. It was a stop a slaughter turnout that partially worked in that it prevented a complete wipeout

    I'm sorry but that is just inaccurate and incorrect.

    We know the sampling methodology for polling in the 90s was far from as sophisticated as it is today. Some groups were wholly under-represented, others over-represented. Part of what happened from 92-97 was to make up for the polling disaster of 1992.

    I'd argue a contrary position - I think a lot of possible Labour voters stayed at home because they were so certain of victory. Turnout was well down on 1992 and that can't be blamed solely on disaffected Conservatives. Indeed, post-election polling in both 1997 and 2001 showed of those who didn't vote, 2/3 were going to vote Labour so had more people voted the result would have been worse for the Conservatives.

    2001 was an greater example of voter apathy (turnout sub 60%) because the outcome was in no doubt. Indeed, I'd argue the 2001 result was worse for the Conservatives than 1997 and in a number of southern seats, the Conservatives went backward from 1997.

    Conversely, you can see the first signs of the political shift in parts of the north and the midlands looking at the 2001 result as the Conservative vote share began the long journey up which would break the so-called "Red Wall" a generation later.
    Fair enough. But thst does suggest Tory inclined whilst a smaller pool were more motivated to turn out given those that didnt were 2/3 labour. And that was in a stop labour effort as it was clear labour would win, but i accept dixies point the level was uncertain. But it was just a theory, im not putting my shirt on it
    2001 was definitely worse, they went backwards in vote numbers from a nadir. They were forunate that Blair was no longer quite as fresh and they probably got rescued by foot and mouth a bit too
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
    You make an excellent point.
    No need to sound surprised. It's not unheard of.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    edited June 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.

    The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/poll-says-keir-starmer-worse-choice-for-pm-than-boris-johnson

    Makes no sense. Starmer approval - 6 Johnson approval-26. Yet They say Johnson is ahead as best PM by 2 points. Ask a stupid question you get a stupid answer. How about asking who would make the better leader of the opposition?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,828
    stodge said:

    You mean the city of Avdiika which has a large coke plant which provides heat for the town via natural gas (apparently).
    It looks a long way away.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
    I confess, I'm a bit lost now.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.

    No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.

    Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
    I confess, I'm a bit lost now.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    rcs1000 said:



    While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.

    That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances.........
    Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
    Wasn't Callaghan fifteen or twenty points ahead of Thatcher on the eve of the 1979 election?
    True but its not generslly the way is it? And Jim was a good bloke tbf
    Callaghan knew it was the end. The famous statement to Donaghue about a "sea change" in politics of which nothing could be done.

    I detect nothing remotely like that happening with Starmer's Labour.

    His offering is better quality more professional management. It is not a fresh chapter and a new beginning.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,256
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    I don’t believe anyone here has argued that the British slave trade was ok. Like the holocaust it was the application of modern methods to an ancient evil.

    On the flip side many Brits recognised what was being done was wrong and convinced the government to not only ban slavery in the UK, but to use state assets to interdict the trade. That was a great thing.

    As with everything in history it’s complicated. But the modern day focus on the triangular trade, ignoring the existence of slavery in history and today, and ignoring the actions of the abolitionists is unbalanced and worth criticising.
    Disagree. As I have said, the triangular trade was unique: there's ancient analogues for economic slavery (m Eastern grain civilisations going to war to get slaves as agricultural workers) but not for the sheer frivolity of wanting to sell people sugar. And people who profess both Christian and enlightenment values get judged by those values, irrespective of what anyone else did in the past
    Sugar is not frivolous. It’s a commodity like any other.

    And of course the actors should be judged. But self flagellation to the exclusion of condemning other wrongs is unseemly
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    edited June 2022

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
    SKS abandoned Socialism for Thatcherism first (the day after the leadership Election)

    Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.

    SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    That would be *brave*
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,278

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
    I confess, I'm a bit lost now.
    https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/good-omens-amazon-viewers-guide-from-a-to-z
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
    I confess, I'm a bit lost now.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens
    The book is outstanding, and the Amazon show is surprisingly good. I'm still struggling with how they are making a sequel.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited June 2022
    pigeon said:

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause,...

    TBF, after this govt, Labour's past eye watering spending plans look like financial probity and fiscal rectitude. Johnson and Sunak literally hosed money on a scale never before witnessed. They made Gordon Brown look like a miser. :D
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
    SKS abandoned Socialism for Thatcherism first (the day after the leadership Election)

    Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.

    SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
    Fuck me, you're in deep shit now...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    pigeon said:

    The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.

    No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.

    Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.

    Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.

    Labours result will be worse than 2017 and only slightly better than 2019 despite the worst Cost of Living Crisis since Thatcher
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Just to help out, the new food strategy is not going down well in rusticland - notably T&H:


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/boris-johnson-faces-rural-fury-over-post-brexit-food-strategy

    And notably the NFU.

    'Commenting on the new government food strategy, leaked to the Guardian on Friday, Batters said she was “pleased to see a commitment on food security” but added that the original strategy had been “stripped to the bare bones” and that there was no plan left on how to implement its overall aims.

    “We want to be eating more British and more local food but again I just ask how,” she said, adding: “It’s all very well to have words but it’s got to have really meaningful delivery and we aren’t seeing that yet in this document.”

    Batters said she met Johnson on Friday and told him that farmers wanted to be supported to produce food, as well as help the environment. “I said that is what farmers in Tiverton want to see. Farmers want the detail.” She said that at present there was no clear policy.'
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    ydoethur said:

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
    SKS abandoned Socialism for Thatcherism first (the day after the leadership Election)

    Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.

    SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
    Fuck me, you're in deep shit now...
    No apologies Ms Rabbit
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    ydoethur said:

    SKS fans Please Explain

    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 36% (-)
    CON: 34% (+1)
    LDEM: 13% (+2)
    GRN: 6% (-2)

    via
    @OpiniumResearch
    , 08 - 10 Jun

    Your laughable Johnny Owls. This methodology has swing back built in as you know.

    Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
    SKS abandoned Socialism for Thatcherism first (the day after the leadership Election)

    Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.

    SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
    Fuck me, you're in deep shit now...
    Oh dear have I insulted another Poster.

    No wonder I dont come on here much now
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,256
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
    I confess, I'm a bit lost now.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens
    The book is outstanding, and the Amazon show is surprisingly good. I'm still struggling with how they are making a sequel.
    I love the book. But the Amazon version was meh.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
    Hes another David Miliband. Talked up because you've got to talk someone up. He will rock up with a banana at conference
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    Oh come on. Pratchett and Gaiman made a masterpiece out of it.
    I confess, I'm a bit lost now.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens
    The book is outstanding, and the Amazon show is surprisingly good. I'm still struggling with how they are making a sequel.
    Gaiman and Pratchett had the notes for "668: The Neighbour of the Devil" but they couldn't schedule time to actually write it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes

    Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al

    Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley

    “A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”

    https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA

    A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants


    https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw

    A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.

    It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
    His poetry was awful, his paintings were worse, he has a weird squeaky voice (check recordings) and apparently he suffered awful halitosis

    And yet he hypnotised many people - nubile women into his late 60s - and he exerts a remarkable influence on our culture to this day. And now it turns out he may be in some senses responsible for the Invasion of Ukraine

    Chapeau, I say. Chapeau

    I always wondered what happened to the goat
    I don't want to encourage a seizure, but..

    'The Italian poet and war veteran D’Annunzio might have come closest to the Thelemite ideal with his short-lived Free City of Fiume, a regime governed by the arts that attracted numerous rebels, from anarchists and syndicalists to nationalists.[30] Crowley does not mention D’Annunzio in his autobiography, even though Crowley was in Italy in 1920, and D’Annunzio’s enterprise ended in December of that year.[31]'

    https://counter-currents.com/2010/09/aleister-crowley-as-political-theorist-part-2/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Carnyx said:

    Just to help out, the new food strategy is not going down well in rusticland - notably T&H:


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/boris-johnson-faces-rural-fury-over-post-brexit-food-strategy

    And notably the NFU.

    'Commenting on the new government food strategy, leaked to the Guardian on Friday, Batters said she was “pleased to see a commitment on food security” but added that the original strategy had been “stripped to the bare bones” and that there was no plan left on how to implement its overall aims.

    “We want to be eating more British and more local food but again I just ask how,” she said, adding: “It’s all very well to have words but it’s got to have really meaningful delivery and we aren’t seeing that yet in this document.”

    Batters said she met Johnson on Friday and told him that farmers wanted to be supported to produce food, as well as help the environment. “I said that is what farmers in Tiverton want to see. Farmers want the detail.” She said that at present there was no clear policy.'

    Farmers have been thrown overboard to appease the teachings of the Great Helmsman.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting

    Surely Labour's next Leader hasn't been born yet?
    No that Labours next PM

    Labour is finished as a force IMO
    Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
    "Labour’s next leader must be Wes Streeting"

    Please explain your workings.
    Hes another David Miliband. Talked up because you've got to talk someone up. He will rock up with a banana at conference
    maybe. I see what you are saying but I think is so much more controlled as a person that he wont. His media performances are top drawer, but there's something, I don't know what that says but to me...

    Labour will vote for a lass next time.
This discussion has been closed.