Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
No. Don't be a twit. I am objecting to an argument that you will often see made, here and elsewhere
Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
Quite a bit resting on 'If' 'because' and 'OK' in that argument. The rest of it is fine.
Not my argument
Also, check out the famous baroque towns of south east Sicily: Noto, Modica, Ragusa, etc. All built after a terrible earthquake in the late 17th century, IIRC, and built in a gloriously harmonious style. And Modica has weird gritty chocolate which is apparently how all chocolate once was
Ars longa, vita brevis. I really need to go anti clock from here to do Taormina Cefalu Palermo etc
Might check out Pantalica necropolis tomorrow
That’s a shame. They are quite special
Taormina is beautiful (“so pretty it hurts” - Ernest Hemingway) but HORRIBLY touristy. Likewise Cefalu and, to a lesser extent, Palermo
However in Cefalu you can break into Aleister Crowley’s “Abbey of Thelema” and see where he fatally poisoned a friend with cat’s blood and then got a goat to rape his wife. It’s actually an old run down bungalow and when I broke in - literally, broke in, I had to climb in through a window - you could still see Crowley’s hideous paintings on the wall
I believe you can’t do that any more and the Abbey of Thelema is off limits and sold for millions. Still, I did it and I can sell you photos of me there if that helps
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
No. Don't be a twit. I am objecting to an argument that you will often see made, here and elsewhere
Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
All of which is actually true, and is a reason to not see the Atlantic slave trade as a 'unique' evil for which Britain alone needs to be punished, as some of the dumber elements of the left want to.
To come back to your original point, can I ask what happened to the bodies of the murdered Jews? Were they rendered down, the fat used for soap, the hair used to make blankets, and the teeth taken to make dentures?
If not I suggest the Holocaust still rather stands out.
She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.
The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
I've been to some nice places in Lancashire: Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.
It IS in Lancashire! Well, half of it - the Lancashire / Yorkshire border passing through the town hall.
EDIT and Saddleworth is Yorkshire.
Wasn't Mossley part in Lancs, part in Yorks and part in Cheshire?
Seems so from wiki.
"The historic counties of Lancashire, Cheshire and the West Riding of Yorkshire meet in Mossley and local government wards and church parishes correspond to their boundaries."
A painting by Aleister Crowley in the Abbey of Thelema in Cefalu, Sicily. This is in the goat-rape-cats-blood-murder room
I wonder if Putin has a stray missile.
It is one of the spookiest places I’ve ever been. The fact I had to break in made it only spookier
I have several photos of my visit - I wish I’d taken more. Googling it now it looks like all the paintings and murals have been horribly defaced and have essentially vanished. They had no artistic value, Crowley was as bad an artist as he was a poet, but the historical cultural value is immense
So much of modern western counter culture descends from Crowley and the Golden Dawn. He was a massive influence on Bowie and Led Zep, for s start
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
No. Don't be a twit. I am objecting to an argument that you will often see made, here and elsewhere
Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
All of which is actually true, and is a reason to not see the Atlantic slave trade as a 'unique' evil for which Britain alone needs to be punished, as some of the dumber elements of the left want to.
To come back to your original point, can I ask what happened to the bodies of the murdered Jews? Were they rendered down, the fat used for soap, the hair used to make blankets, and the teeth taken to make dentures?
If not I suggest the Holocaust still rather stands out.
Not the point, really. And I am offering death camps, and Jew deportations, as two separate facts of ancient history
My point is really just that the British Empire like every other empire known to history was about wealth and power, not about making the world a better place. And the triangular trade was actually a new development in evil: fat cats in continent A shipping bods from continent B to continent C because there was a lot of money to be made from people liking a spoon full of sugar in their tea. I don’t expect anyone to feel guilty about it any more than I expect the present generation of Germans to feel guilty about anything. I just get pissed off by the claim that the slave trade was either not a great evil, or not the backbone of the British Empire
@IshmaelZ posing that question about Norman slavery led me to think of something else, which I will admit I hadn't thought of for years - when was villeinage actually abolished in England?
The traditional view is it died with the Black Death. That was proved to be wrong in the 1960s when an examination of the records of the palatinate of Durham revealed it was more tightly controlled, due to the shortage of labour making villeins a more valuable resource.
But I am astonished to find that there is a record of Elizabeth I paying a certain Sir Henry Lee (presumably this one) very handsomely indeed to manumit 300 villeins as late as 1575.
I had no idea it lasted so deep into the Tudor era. I assumed the parish system of poor relief was the last vestige of it. But apparently not.
English land law being what it is (and villeins were land, pretty much) probably in the Settled Land Act 1925
I would have guessed it would actually have been abolished by Cromwell, if it had still been in force. It would certainly have been abolished under the Slavery Abolition Act 1833 if it had not been abolished before, although there were many slaves in Britain itself at that time.
Technically, I think villeinage was brought to an end in 1922-25, practically, in the sixteenth century.
After 1350, society pulled in two ways. On the one hand, lords of the manor were bidding for labour, and willing to offer concessions to villeins to stop them running away from the manor. On the other, Parliament was clamping down on the labourers, trying to tie them to the land, and regulate wages. Often the same MP might be passing legislation to stop wage increases, while paying extra wages to keep his own estates functioning. Men might be villeins on one manor, and free tenants on another.
Juliet Barker details this very well in her book on the Peasants' Revolt (which was more accurately speaking, a lower middle class, minor gentry revolt). That's a good example of a revolt taking place because things are getting better, rather than because things are getting worse.
She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.
The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
I've been to some nice places in Lancashire: Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.
It IS in Lancashire! Well, half of it - the Lancashire / Yorkshire border passing through the town hall.
EDIT and Saddleworth is Yorkshire.
Wasn't Mossley part in Lancs, part in Yorks and part in Cheshire?
Seems so from wiki.
"The historic counties of Lancashire, Cheshire and the West Riding of Yorkshire meet in Mossley and local government wards and church parishes correspond to their boundaries."
Stockport had bits in Lancashire too. And Warrington had parts in Cheshire.
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
The Church preached against the enslavement of Christians. Chattel slavery was pretty well illegal throughout Western Europe by 1150. But, it was lawful to enslave pagans and infidels, and most conveniently for slavers, black Africans fell into those categories.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
No. Don't be a twit. I am objecting to an argument that you will often see made, here and elsewhere
Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
All of which is actually true, and is a reason to not see the Atlantic slave trade as a 'unique' evil for which Britain alone needs to be punished, as some of the dumber elements of the left want to.
To come back to your original point, can I ask what happened to the bodies of the murdered Jews? Were they rendered down, the fat used for soap, the hair used to make blankets, and the teeth taken to make dentures?
If not I suggest the Holocaust still rather stands out.
Not the point, really. And I am offering death camps, and Jew deportations, as two separate facts of ancient history
My point is really just that the British Empire like every other empire known to history was about wealth and power, not about making the world a better place. And the triangular trade was actually a new development in evil: fat cats in continent A shipping bods from continent B to continent C because there was a lot of money to be made from people liking a spoon full of sugar in their tea. I don’t expect anyone to feel guilty about it any more than I expect the present generation of Germans to feel guilty about anything. I just get pissed off by the claim that the slave trade was either not a great evil, or not the backbone of the British Empire
That the triangular trade got into its stride pretty much at the same time as the Enlightenment did adds a certain je ne sais quoi I feel.
I predict to continue as bad polls for Labour. If it bigger lead than 4, Tory’s below 33, or labour higher than 37, I’ll be surprised considering bad Labour polling from other pollsters recently.
Johnson’s poor approval ratings have improved slightly at -27, compared with -30 two weeks ago. Starmer holds an approval rating of -6, unchanged from two weeks ago.
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
No. Don't be a twit. I am objecting to an argument that you will often see made, here and elsewhere
Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
All of which is actually true, and is a reason to not see the Atlantic slave trade as a 'unique' evil for which Britain alone needs to be punished, as some of the dumber elements of the left want to.
To come back to your original point, can I ask what happened to the bodies of the murdered Jews? Were they rendered down, the fat used for soap, the hair used to make blankets, and the teeth taken to make dentures?
If not I suggest the Holocaust still rather stands out.
Not the point, really. And I am offering death camps, and Jew deportations, as two separate facts of ancient history
My point is really just that the British Empire like every other empire known to history was about wealth and power, not about making the world a better place. And the triangular trade was actually a new development in evil: fat cats in continent A shipping bods from continent B to continent C because there was a lot of money to be made from people liking a spoon full of sugar in their tea. I don’t expect anyone to feel guilty about it any more than I expect the present generation of Germans to feel guilty about anything. I just get pissed off by the claim that the slave trade was either not a great evil, or not the backbone of the British Empire
That the triangular trade got into its stride pretty much at the same time as the Enlightenment did adds a certain je ne sais quoi I feel.
Many of the pseudo-scientific justifications for the Holocaust grew out of the work of Charles Darwin.
History is full of ironies. My favourite is Richard III, seizing the throne to secure his position and his lands, ended up being overthrown and losing everything.
I predict to continue as bad polls for Labour. If it bigger than 4, Tory’s below 33, or labour higher than 37, I’m be surprised considering bad Labour polling from other pollsters recently.
A senior Labour source said: “We know what needs to be done between now and the next election and are ticking everything off on the list.
“If you had said the morning after the 2019 election Labour could be back in one term, people would have laughed at you.
“But the work that Keir has been doing to reform the party, often without fanfare, means that we can seriously talk about winning the next election. The fact we’ve climbed out of the hole we were in was never a given.
“Having dealt with the party machinery at the last conference, the plan was always that the next one will focus on setting out our plans for Britain. There’s no complacency but we remain confident of the strategy we have to get Keir to No 10.”
She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.
The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
I've been to some nice places in Lancashire: Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.
It IS in Lancashire! Well, half of it - the Lancashire / Yorkshire border passing through the town hall.
EDIT and Saddleworth is Yorkshire.
Wasn't Mossley part in Lancs, part in Yorks and part in Cheshire?
Seems so from wiki.
"The historic counties of Lancashire, Cheshire and the West Riding of Yorkshire meet in Mossley and local government wards and church parishes correspond to their boundaries."
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances......... Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances......... Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances......... Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
How much of the whole poll has swingback built in?
We agree the lead is actually 6% and Opinion ultra tough on Labour lead and shares, but there’s definitely drop off in Tory support in their sequence of polls, with that swing back built in, I reckon the raw figure (which they never share now?) before under the bonnet sorcery is much larger than 6. the 55% alliance figure is very consistent in the sequence.
Lab are going to get an absolute tonking at the GE if they are only 2% ahead days after 41% of Tory MPs had no confidence in Boris
Opinium methodology shows a smaller Labour lead when compared to other pollsters. The old Opinium methodology would probably show a 10% lead. Would Labour be on course for an absolute tonking then?
The mean Labour lead of 5-6% is not great but certainly not a disaster.
*Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes *NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result *Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies) *Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving *Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England
Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances......... Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
You were waiting for this.
If he wants to go let’s get Wes in
I honestly dont know what to make of it Horse, it doesnt make any sense to me. I really dislike SKS, sure, but i still think BJ is a foul disaster. It suggests either BJ has some shy tory style appeal still or is generally more durable with voters or SKS is really not that well thought if, or is seen as very uninspiring. The figures arent compatible with the situation as generally understood and accepted by us
"Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.
The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."
Poor methodology? Should Labour be doing that well because of error or are the polls better so they shouldn’t be 30 points ahead and instead we can trust 10+ is accurate?
*Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes *NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result *Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies) *Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving *Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England
Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.
This is the post of the day! Very dark days ahead.
Poor methodology? Should Labour be doing that well because of error or are the polls better so they shouldn’t be 30 points ahead and instead we can trust 10+ is accurate?
I think it was disenchanted Tories who were non voters in opinion polls 93 to 97 turning out terrified of a 300 majority one party state because some disappeared in 2001 when the Labour surge of numbers also fell back by 3 million. It was a stop a slaughter turnout that partially worked in that it prevented a complete wipeout
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
I don’t believe anyone here has argued that the British slave trade was ok. Like the holocaust it was the application of modern methods to an ancient evil.
On the flip side many Brits recognised what was being done was wrong and convinced the government to not only ban slavery in the UK, but to use state assets to interdict the trade. That was a great thing.
As with everything in history it’s complicated. But the modern day focus on the triangular trade, ignoring the existence of slavery in history and today, and ignoring the actions of the abolitionists is unbalanced and worth criticising.
"Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.
The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
"Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.
The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."
*Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes *NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result *Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies) *Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving *Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England
Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.
Big problems coming in schools as well. Not enough trainees coming through and higher than usual numbers of departures.
Poor methodology? Should Labour be doing that well because of error or are the polls better so they shouldn’t be 30 points ahead and instead we can trust 10+ is accurate?
I think it was disenchanted Tories who were non voters in opinion polls 93 to 97 turning out terrified of a 300 majority one party state because some disappeared in 2001 when the Labour surge of numbers also fell back by 3 million. It was a stop a slaughter turnout that partially worked in that it prevented a complete wipeout
They were trying to win it for the Tories. There was quite a belief, even on election day that they could still win. Mid point estimate was about 50 majority ISTR. Much smaller than the results.
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances......... Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
How much of the whole poll has swingback built in?
We agree the lead is actually 6% and Opinion ultra tough on Labour lead and shares, but there’s definitely drop off in Tory support in their sequence of polls, with that swing back built in, I reckon the raw figure (which they never share now?) before under the bonnet sorcery is much larger than 6. the 55% alliance figure is very consistent in the sequence.
I dont know Rabbit. It all feels very holding pattern. Since the VONC we have redfield -2, Techne and Opinium +1 for Tories, margin of error stuff. Tories near their basement and Labour not convincing the electorate enough? The ComRes looks the outlier, everything else bouncing about the 6 or 7 lead (with opiniums different methofology keeping it 2 to 5 range). But im not sure. The best PM figure suggests labour would struggle to build a massive lead at the moment, but maybe a Zelensky/war leader mini effect is artificially boosting him for now?
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
I don’t believe anyone here has argued that the British slave trade was ok. Like the holocaust it was the application of modern methods to an ancient evil.
On the flip side many Brits recognised what was being done was wrong and convinced the government to not only ban slavery in the UK, but to use state assets to interdict the trade. That was a great thing.
As with everything in history it’s complicated. But the modern day focus on the triangular trade, ignoring the existence of slavery in history and today, and ignoring the actions of the abolitionists is unbalanced and worth criticising.
Disagree. As I have said, the triangular trade was unique: there's ancient analogues for economic slavery (m Eastern grain civilisations going to war to get slaves as agricultural workers) but not for the sheer frivolity of wanting to sell people sugar. And people who profess both Christian and enlightenment values get judged by those values, irrespective of what anyone else did in the past
*Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes *NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result *Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies) *Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving *Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England
Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.
We have a bunch of untalented, entitled non-entities in charge surrounding themselves with Yes-Men whilst plundering the place to line their own pockets and that of the elderly who vote for them.
It was never going to end well. The only question is how extensive the wreckage is and who has to pick up the pieces.
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances......... Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
Wasn't Callaghan fifteen or twenty points ahead of Thatcher on the eve of the 1979 election?
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
This is not news though. Been known for some time iirc.
Of course many of the Nazi loved dabbling with the occult and nordic/aryan myths and so on.
Quite clearly Putin's regime is as close to Nazi thinking as anything since the end of the War. By a mile.
It’s news to me that Putin is LITERALLY INSPIRED BY PERVERTED ENGLISH ARISTO SATANISTS WHO FED BIRDS TO SKELETONS and got GOATS TO RAPE THEIR COCAINE-ADDICTED WIVES
it’s just the greatest Daily Mail story EVER
The invasion of Ukraine isn’t just the work of the devil, it is ACTUALLY THE WORK OF THE DEVIL
"Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.
The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."
*Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes *NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result *Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies) *Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving *Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England
Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.
This is the post of the day! Very dark days ahead.
I know they all touched by the 'it could be me in the history books' thing but frankly who would want to take over as PM with all this coming?
"Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.
The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."
I think it was disenchanted Tories who were non voters in opinion polls 93 to 97 turning out terrified of a 300 majority one party state because some disappeared in 2001 when the Labour surge of numbers also fell back by 3 million. It was a stop a slaughter turnout that partially worked in that it prevented a complete wipeout
I'm sorry but that is just inaccurate and incorrect.
We know the sampling methodology for polling in the 90s was far from as sophisticated as it is today. Some groups were wholly under-represented, others over-represented. Part of what happened from 92-97 was to make up for the polling disaster of 1992.
I'd argue a contrary position - I think a lot of possible Labour voters stayed at home because they were so certain of victory. Turnout was well down on 1992 and that can't be blamed solely on disaffected Conservatives. Indeed, post-election polling in both 1997 and 2001 showed of those who didn't vote, 2/3 were going to vote Labour so had more people voted the result would have been worse for the Conservatives.
2001 was an greater example of voter apathy (turnout sub 60%) because the outcome was in no doubt. Indeed, I'd argue the 2001 result was worse for the Conservatives than 1997 and in a number of southern seats, the Conservatives went backward from 1997.
Conversely, you can see the first signs of the political shift in parts of the north and the midlands looking at the 2001 result as the Conservative vote share began the long journey up which would break the so-called "Red Wall" a generation later.
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances......... Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
Wasn't Callaghan fifteen or twenty points ahead of Thatcher on the eve of the 1979 election?
True but its not generslly the way is it? And Jim was a good bloke tbf
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances......... Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
Wasn't Callaghan fifteen or twenty points ahead of Thatcher on the eve of the 1979 election?
True but its not generslly the way is it? And Jim was a good bloke tbf
Jim also faced a cost of living crisis caused by a massive reduction in the quantity of oil & gas available to import, albeit in his case it was due to the beginnings of Iranian revolution.
Ah, so you want to be with the winners, which is why you're now a BoJo fan.
Not a BoJo fan as such but on Policy at the moment he is to the left of SKS and has implemented half of Corbyns Manifesto that SKS has dropped now the Leadership Election is done
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
A number of my friends had Crowley fetishes in their late teens. They all grew out of it.
It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
His poetry was awful, his paintings were worse, he has a weird squeaky voice (check recordings) and apparently he suffered awful halitosis
And yet he hypnotised many people - nubile women into his late 60s - and he exerts a remarkable influence on our culture to this day. And now it turns out he may be in some senses responsible for the Invasion of Ukraine
I think it was disenchanted Tories who were non voters in opinion polls 93 to 97 turning out terrified of a 300 majority one party state because some disappeared in 2001 when the Labour surge of numbers also fell back by 3 million. It was a stop a slaughter turnout that partially worked in that it prevented a complete wipeout
I'm sorry but that is just inaccurate and incorrect.
We know the sampling methodology for polling in the 90s was far from as sophisticated as it is today. Some groups were wholly under-represented, others over-represented. Part of what happened from 92-97 was to make up for the polling disaster of 1992.
I'd argue a contrary position - I think a lot of possible Labour voters stayed at home because they were so certain of victory. Turnout was well down on 1992 and that can't be blamed solely on disaffected Conservatives. Indeed, post-election polling in both 1997 and 2001 showed of those who didn't vote, 2/3 were going to vote Labour so had more people voted the result would have been worse for the Conservatives.
2001 was an greater example of voter apathy (turnout sub 60%) because the outcome was in no doubt. Indeed, I'd argue the 2001 result was worse for the Conservatives than 1997 and in a number of southern seats, the Conservatives went backward from 1997.
Conversely, you can see the first signs of the political shift in parts of the north and the midlands looking at the 2001 result as the Conservative vote share began the long journey up which would break the so-called "Red Wall" a generation later.
Fair enough. But thst does suggest Tory inclined whilst a smaller pool were more motivated to turn out given those that didnt were 2/3 labour. And that was in a stop labour effort as it was clear labour would win, but i accept dixies point the level was uncertain. But it was just a theory, im not putting my shirt on it 2001 was definitely worse, they went backwards in vote numbers from a nadir. They were forunate that Blair was no longer quite as fresh and they probably got rescued by foot and mouth a bit too
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
"Boris Johnson makes a better prime minister than Keir Starmer would despite Partygate, the cost of living crisis and the confidence vote in Johnson held by his MPs, according to the latest Observer poll.
The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."
Makes no sense. Starmer approval - 6 Johnson approval-26. Yet They say Johnson is ahead as best PM by 2 points. Ask a stupid question you get a stupid answer. How about asking who would make the better leader of the opposition?
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.
No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.
Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.
Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
That is a travesty for SKS. If he cant beat Bozo in a head to head in these circumstances......... Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
Wasn't Callaghan fifteen or twenty points ahead of Thatcher on the eve of the 1979 election?
True but its not generslly the way is it? And Jim was a good bloke tbf
Callaghan knew it was the end. The famous statement to Donaghue about a "sea change" in politics of which nothing could be done.
I detect nothing remotely like that happening with Starmer's Labour.
His offering is better quality more professional management. It is not a fresh chapter and a new beginning.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
I don’t believe anyone here has argued that the British slave trade was ok. Like the holocaust it was the application of modern methods to an ancient evil.
On the flip side many Brits recognised what was being done was wrong and convinced the government to not only ban slavery in the UK, but to use state assets to interdict the trade. That was a great thing.
As with everything in history it’s complicated. But the modern day focus on the triangular trade, ignoring the existence of slavery in history and today, and ignoring the actions of the abolitionists is unbalanced and worth criticising.
Disagree. As I have said, the triangular trade was unique: there's ancient analogues for economic slavery (m Eastern grain civilisations going to war to get slaves as agricultural workers) but not for the sheer frivolity of wanting to sell people sugar. And people who profess both Christian and enlightenment values get judged by those values, irrespective of what anyone else did in the past
Sugar is not frivolous. It’s a commodity like any other.
And of course the actors should be judged. But self flagellation to the exclusion of condemning other wrongs is unseemly
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause,...
TBF, after this govt, Labour's past eye watering spending plans look like financial probity and fiscal rectitude. Johnson and Sunak literally hosed money on a scale never before witnessed. They made Gordon Brown look like a miser.
The key barrier to Labour doing well at the next GE isn't the leadership of Starmer. The fact that he's grey and people therefore don't take much notice of him is quite sufficient to explain his poorer than expected performance in polls versus Boris Johnson. None of this matters, however, when we get to the next GE campaign, there's a lot of attention on the Labour leader and manifesto, and he can go head to head with the Prime Minister under circumstances in which the latter's gibbering buffoon schtick has long since ceased to be amusing, even to those who found it so in previous years.
No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.
Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.
Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.
Labours result will be worse than 2017 and only slightly better than 2019 despite the worst Cost of Living Crisis since Thatcher
'Commenting on the new government food strategy, leaked to the Guardian on Friday, Batters said she was “pleased to see a commitment on food security” but added that the original strategy had been “stripped to the bare bones” and that there was no plan left on how to implement its overall aims.
“We want to be eating more British and more local food but again I just ask how,” she said, adding: “It’s all very well to have words but it’s got to have really meaningful delivery and we aren’t seeing that yet in this document.”
Batters said she met Johnson on Friday and told him that farmers wanted to be supported to produce food, as well as help the environment. “I said that is what farmers in Tiverton want to see. Farmers want the detail.” She said that at present there was no clear policy.'
OMFG this is the Daily Mail triple page splash to end all triple page splashes
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
Comments
EDIT and Saddleworth is Yorkshire.
Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
Taormina is beautiful (“so pretty it hurts” - Ernest Hemingway) but HORRIBLY touristy. Likewise Cefalu and, to a lesser extent, Palermo
However in Cefalu you can break into Aleister Crowley’s “Abbey of Thelema” and see where he fatally poisoned a friend with cat’s blood and then got a goat to rape his wife. It’s actually an old run down bungalow and when I broke in - literally, broke in, I had to climb in through a window - you could still see Crowley’s hideous paintings on the wall
I believe you can’t do that any more and the Abbey of Thelema is off limits and sold for millions. Still, I did it and I can sell you photos of me there if that helps
To come back to your original point, can I ask what happened to the bodies of the murdered Jews? Were they rendered down, the fat used for soap, the hair used to make blankets, and the teeth taken to make dentures?
If not I suggest the Holocaust still rather stands out.
Seems so from wiki.
"The historic counties of Lancashire, Cheshire and the West Riding of Yorkshire meet in Mossley and local government wards and church parishes correspond to their boundaries."
I have several photos of my visit - I wish I’d taken more. Googling it now it looks like all the paintings and murals have been horribly defaced and have essentially vanished. They had no artistic value, Crowley was as bad an artist as he was a poet, but the historical cultural value is immense
So much of modern western counter culture descends from Crowley and the Golden Dawn. He was a massive influence on Bowie and Led Zep, for s start
https://www.ilikeyouroldstuff.com/news/how-aleister-crowley-influenced-six-of-your-favourite-rock-bands
My point is really just that the British Empire like every other empire known to history was about wealth and power, not about making the world a better place. And the triangular trade was actually a new development in evil: fat cats in continent A shipping bods from continent B to continent C because there was a lot of money to be made from people liking a spoon full of sugar in their tea. I don’t expect anyone to feel guilty about it any more than I expect the present generation of Germans to feel guilty about anything. I just get pissed off by the claim that the slave trade was either not a great evil, or not the backbone of the British Empire
After 1350, society pulled in two ways. On the one hand, lords of the manor were bidding for labour, and willing to offer concessions to villeins to stop them running away from the manor. On the other, Parliament was clamping down on the labourers, trying to tie them to the land, and regulate wages. Often the same MP might be passing legislation to stop wage increases, while paying extra wages to keep his own estates functioning. Men might be villeins on one manor, and free tenants on another.
Juliet Barker details this very well in her book on the Peasants' Revolt (which was more accurately speaking, a lower middle class, minor gentry revolt). That's a good example of a revolt taking place because things are getting better, rather than because things are getting worse.
I predict to continue as bad polls for Labour. If it bigger lead than 4, Tory’s below 33, or labour higher than 37, I’ll be surprised considering bad Labour polling from other pollsters recently.
While 28% think Johnson would make the best prime minister, 26% opted for Starmer.
History is full of ironies. My favourite is Richard III, seizing the throne to secure his position and his lands, ended up being overthrown and losing everything.
Usually comes any second now don’t it? Let’s do the F A cup wiggly fingers bit. Wooooooooooooooo
LAB: 36% (=)
CON: 34% (+1)
LDM: 13% (+2)
Via @OpiniumResearch, 8-10 Jun.
Changes w/ 25-27 May.
Holding pattern continues
Edit - Green 6, SNP 3
“If you had said the morning after the 2019 election Labour could be back in one term, people would have laughed at you.
“But the work that Keir has been doing to reform the party, often without fanfare, means that we can seriously talk about winning the next election. The fact we’ve climbed out of the hole we were in was never a given.
“Having dealt with the party machinery at the last conference, the plan was always that the next one will focus on setting out our plans for Britain. There’s no complacency but we remain confident of the strategy we have to get Keir to No 10.”
Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 36% (-)
CON: 34% (+1)
LDEM: 13% (+2)
GRN: 6% (-2)
via
@OpiniumResearch
, 08 - 10 Jun
I’m so Bloody brilliant 😌
30% approve of the job he is doing (nc)
36% disapprove of the job he is doing (nc)
And yet Keir remains the most popular leader since Blair
Where are you now Boris abandoned socialism for dry Thatcherism 😆
Obviously other polls have him ahead and its one poll only but this one figure set should alarm Labour
If he wants to go let’s get Wes in
Lab are going to get an absolute tonking at the GE if they are only 2% ahead days after 41% of Tory MPs had no confidence in Boris
You post the ones which you like.
You aren’t serious about anything.
Labour has improved a lot in the polls since the last election, but why aren't they doing better?
Here are the top problems that soft Conservative voters have with the Labour Party.
BJO is in denial of course
We agree the lead is actually 6% and Opinion ultra tough on Labour lead and shares, but there’s definitely drop off in Tory support in their sequence of polls, with that swing back built in, I reckon the raw figure (which they never share now?) before under the bonnet sorcery is much larger than 6. the 55% alliance figure is very consistent in the sequence.
The mean Labour lead of 5-6% is not great but certainly not a disaster.
*Plans for crippling nationwide rail strikes
*NHS pay settlement likely to be capped at 3%; strikes likely as a result
*Health Secretary insisting that NHS nevertheless requires no more money (despite forthcoming pay disputes and a huge number of unfilled vacancies)
*Record high petrol prices, threatening an exodus of low paid workers from many essential occupations that require a lot of driving
*Predicted total collapse of the ambulance service in at least one region of England
Never mind a revolt by pissed off elderly suits in the shires, I can see the current Government being brought down by impending systemic collapse should things carry on as they are.
It suggests either BJ has some shy tory style appeal still or is generally more durable with voters or SKS is really not that well thought if, or is seen as very uninspiring.
The figures arent compatible with the situation as generally understood and accepted by us
The Opinium figures, which will raise further concerns within Labour over the party leader’s performance, shows that the prime minister has a two-point lead over his opponent."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/poll-says-keir-starmer-worse-choice-for-pm-than-boris-johnson
In 1997 polls had Labour 30 points ahead.
Yet they won 43 to 29, far less than that.
Poor methodology? Should Labour be doing that well because of error or are the polls better so they shouldn’t be 30 points ahead and instead we can trust 10+ is accurate?
My Lab MP rang me last Saturday to ask if i would be willing to stand for Lab in a By Election in the Ward where i live.
I explained I had resigned my Membership thanks to my opinion of SKS and wouldn;t be willing to rejoin.
He said he knew I had resigned my Membership but asked me to stand anyway.
I didnt even know an election was imminent , turns out nominations were closing 48 hrs later
My MP and the Labour Canvassers who came knocking on Thursday this week believe I am serious.
Very serious about wanting Labour to lose
On the flip side many Brits recognised what was being done was wrong and convinced the government to not only ban slavery in the UK, but to use state assets to interdict the trade. That was a great thing.
As with everything in history it’s complicated. But the modern day focus on the triangular trade, ignoring the existence of slavery in history and today, and ignoring the actions of the abolitionists is unbalanced and worth criticising.
Remember Putin’s Rasputin, Alexander Dugin? The mystical Russian nationalist guy who yearns for Russian supremacy and asked for Brexit and advised Putin to invade Ukraine et al
Turns out he is a sworn devotee of devil worshipping Aleister Crowley
“A deeper dive into the writings of “Putin’s Rasputin,” Aleksandr Dugin, reveals that his Neo-Eurasian worldview is influenced by chaos magick, which grew out of the teachings of 20th century occultist Aleister Crowley.”
https://twitter.com/skywatch_tv/status/1512445159954259968?s=21&t=e1aOfA2Kp5o5zPTYTOR7OA
A video of Dugin reciting Crowley magick chants
https://youtu.be/l_PcWPlgzgw
Labour should be way ahead but Starmer is failing to cut it
I still want Boris out but @ HYUFD will be along shortly to say I told you so
There was quite a belief, even on election day that they could still win. Mid point estimate was about 50 majority ISTR. Much smaller than the results.
She lives on the other side of Town and I understand nobody from the Labour Branch i belonged to and where the contest is was willing to stand.
Easy decision for me on who to vote for
https://www.chesterfield.gov.uk/media/1996520/statement-of-persons-nominated.pdf
Of course many of the Nazi loved dabbling with the occult and nordic/aryan myths and so on.
Quite clearly Putin's regime is as close to Nazi thinking as anything since the end of the War. By a mile.
The ComRes looks the outlier, everything else bouncing about the 6 or 7 lead (with opiniums different methofology keeping it 2 to 5 range).
But im not sure. The best PM figure suggests labour would struggle to build a massive lead at the moment, but maybe a Zelensky/war leader mini effect is artificially boosting him for now?
It was never going to end well. The only question is how extensive the wreckage is and who has to pick up the pieces.
Poll says Keir Starmer worse choice for PM than Boris Johnson
it’s just the greatest Daily Mail story EVER
The invasion of Ukraine isn’t just the work of the devil, it is ACTUALLY THE WORK OF THE DEVIL
https://twitter.com/Newnews_eu/status/1535700428842799105?s=20&t=Awison1nNa0ZqXS4f1Y35w
Labour is finished as a force IMO
We know the sampling methodology for polling in the 90s was far from as sophisticated as it is today. Some groups were wholly under-represented, others over-represented. Part of what happened from 92-97 was to make up for the polling disaster of 1992.
I'd argue a contrary position - I think a lot of possible Labour voters stayed at home because they were so certain of victory. Turnout was well down on 1992 and that can't be blamed solely on disaffected Conservatives. Indeed, post-election polling in both 1997 and 2001 showed of those who didn't vote, 2/3 were going to vote Labour so had more people voted the result would have been worse for the Conservatives.
2001 was an greater example of voter apathy (turnout sub 60%) because the outcome was in no doubt. Indeed, I'd argue the 2001 result was worse for the Conservatives than 1997 and in a number of southern seats, the Conservatives went backward from 1997.
Conversely, you can see the first signs of the political shift in parts of the north and the midlands looking at the 2001 result as the Conservative vote share began the long journey up which would break the so-called "Red Wall" a generation later.
It seems odd that anyone - except the exceptionally addled - could find anything remotely interesting in the mountain of shit he produced.
And without Neil Gaiman, would I ever have discovered Amanda Palmer?
And yet he hypnotised many people - nubile women into his late 60s - and he exerts a remarkable influence on our culture to this day. And now it turns out he may be in some senses responsible for the Invasion of Ukraine
Chapeau, I say. Chapeau
I always wondered what happened to the goat
2001 was definitely worse, they went backwards in vote numbers from a nadir. They were forunate that Blair was no longer quite as fresh and they probably got rescued by foot and mouth a bit too
No, the real issue is neither the leader nor presenting a coherent policy platform, i.e. demonstrating that Labour stands for something substantial. The real problem is that Labour is only going to be able to look serious to wavering electors, especially after the debacle of the second Corbyn manifesto with its almost limitless unfunded spending pledges, by rigorously costing everything and explaining where the money is going to come from. The public sector, particularly as concerns the perennial problem areas of health and social care, is in a decrepit state, putting it right is going to require even more money, and - whilst Labour can probably get away with borrowing to invest up to a point - a lot of that is going to have to come from yet more tax rises.
Tax and spend is where Labour is vulnerable, because it'll help to rally the Tory voter base (who will inevitably be the primary targets of any hikes) to the cause, and allow the Conservatives to scream about profligacy whilst simultaneously shaking their own magic money tree (i.e. pretending that cutting taxes instead will magically generate any extra funding needed, because Laffer Curve,) or simply stating that the extra funding isn't really needed at all. Expect plenty of the traditional guff about efficiency savings and LGBTQIA+ arts officers in district councils to be trotted out during the next election campaign.
Ultimately, the Tory core vote is both efficiently distributed and very selfish. It won't be at all difficult to convince them to troop back out to vote for any Tory Government, including one led by Boris Johnson, if they think that the alternative will cost them any money at all. Given also the Scottish situation, the aim has to be to seize enough territory from the Conservatives to remove them from office, and then worry about what to do with the new Parliamentary arithmetic after that. Labour will be doing very well if it can become the largest single party; a repetition of 1997 is not on the cards.
I detect nothing remotely like that happening with Starmer's Labour.
His offering is better quality more professional management. It is not a fresh chapter and a new beginning.
And of course the actors should be judged. But self flagellation to the exclusion of condemning other wrongs is unseemly
Reeves is more of a Thatcherite on the economy than Sunak will ever be.
SKS fans are laughable Mr Rabbit
Please explain your workings.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/11/boris-johnson-faces-rural-fury-over-post-brexit-food-strategy
And notably the NFU.
'Commenting on the new government food strategy, leaked to the Guardian on Friday, Batters said she was “pleased to see a commitment on food security” but added that the original strategy had been “stripped to the bare bones” and that there was no plan left on how to implement its overall aims.
“We want to be eating more British and more local food but again I just ask how,” she said, adding: “It’s all very well to have words but it’s got to have really meaningful delivery and we aren’t seeing that yet in this document.”
Batters said she met Johnson on Friday and told him that farmers wanted to be supported to produce food, as well as help the environment. “I said that is what farmers in Tiverton want to see. Farmers want the detail.” She said that at present there was no clear policy.'
No wonder I dont come on here much now