Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Johnson could face a confidence vote from the Tory grassroots – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 20 in General
imageJohnson could face a confidence vote from the Tory grassroots – politicalbetting.com

In an excellent piece in the I the paper’s Chief Political Commentator, Paul Waugh, sets out the mechanics of how Johnson could face a confidence vote from the Tory grassroots.

Read the full story here

«134

Comments

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 70,236
    edited June 11
    The tonking in Tiverton might focus minds
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 70,236
    I'll take the second too lol
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,652
    Oh go on then, I'll take third.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    Is there a market on him being egged during his conference speech?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,652
    I managed to get all green on Johnson exit date from now until the end of time. With the pay out of a decent curry meal if he leaves this year.

    3.5 at moment to leave in 2022.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    Pulpstar said:

    I'll take the second too lol

    Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.

    I bought one of these

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-500-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pCVBhCFARIsAGMxhAe8Uoif3Ldkm2fJhqWJnTVkMq4JYhxN1QFuGiiFV-rIvuTIwVSTHUwaAviBEALw_wcB

    With the panels

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/solarsaga-100w-solar-panel

    And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,205
    I did mention the 65 yesterday and there must be a real prospect of this happening
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    Hamilton is not having the best of seasons, is he?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    edited June 11

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll take the second too lol

    Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.

    I bought one of these

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-500-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pCVBhCFARIsAGMxhAe8Uoif3Ldkm2fJhqWJnTVkMq4JYhxN1QFuGiiFV-rIvuTIwVSTHUwaAviBEALw_wcB

    With the panels

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/solarsaga-100w-solar-panel

    And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
    I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.

    If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034
    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    Lance Stroll nose his session is over.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 2,785
    edited June 11
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll take the second too lol

    Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.

    I bought one of these

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-500-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pCVBhCFARIsAGMxhAe8Uoif3Ldkm2fJhqWJnTVkMq4JYhxN1QFuGiiFV-rIvuTIwVSTHUwaAviBEALw_wcB

    With the panels

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/solarsaga-100w-solar-panel

    And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
    I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.

    If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
    The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034
    ydoethur said:

    Lance Stroll nose his session is over.

    Has he blown it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    kyf_100 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll take the second too lol

    Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.

    I bought one of these

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-500-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pCVBhCFARIsAGMxhAe8Uoif3Ldkm2fJhqWJnTVkMq4JYhxN1QFuGiiFV-rIvuTIwVSTHUwaAviBEALw_wcB

    With the panels

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/solarsaga-100w-solar-panel

    And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
    I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.

    If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
    The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
    Well, it does at the moment. For how much longer?

    Next year power will be being produced at a thumping loss. Should the government abandon the price cap, things could go wahoonie shaped fast.

    And that's assuming current technology.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Lance Stroll nose his session is over.

    Has he blown it?
    No, he was just tyred out.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,065
    ydoethur said:

    Hamilton is not having the best of seasons, is he?

    Maybe his jewellery was like Samson's hair.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970
    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Lance Stroll nose his session is over.

    Has he blown it?
    No, he was just tyred out.
    To lose it once during practice for the Azerbaijan Grand Prix may be regarded as a misfortune...

    I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    Lancs South of Preston is a toilet, but go n of there and it is God's own county
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    kyf_100 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll take the second too lol

    Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.

    I bought one of these

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-500-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pCVBhCFARIsAGMxhAe8Uoif3Ldkm2fJhqWJnTVkMq4JYhxN1QFuGiiFV-rIvuTIwVSTHUwaAviBEALw_wcB

    With the panels

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/solarsaga-100w-solar-panel

    And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
    I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.

    If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
    The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
    Stop spoiling my fun. I’m feeling so bloody clever. 😇
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,578
    If it's not binding then Boris will just ignore any vote anyway.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,487
    Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.

    But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    edited June 11
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    Lancs South of Preston is a toilet, but go n of there and it is God's own county
    You mean the bit that looks a bit like Yorkshire but unfortunately has Lancastrians in it? Shropshire has always looked nice to me, but I’ve never spent a night in it.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970

    Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.

    But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?

    It's pretty offensive to label Priti Patel as second rate.
    (wait for it)
    Second-raters like me do not deserve that kind of shabby insult.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Lance Stroll nose his session is over.

    Has he blown it?
    No, he was just tyred out.
    To lose it once during practice for the Azerbaijan Grand Prix may be regarded as a misfortune...

    I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
    How are you fitting the horses into it? Two in the front, two in the back, you in the middle?

    Horses make great drivers. Just tendency to fly over hedges is the problem.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034

    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    Lancs South of Preston is a toilet, but go n of there and it is God's own county
    You mean the bit that looks a bit like Yorkshire but unfortunately has Lancastrians in it? Shropshire has always looked nice to me, but I’ve never spent a night in it.
    Yes that's fair

    Shropshire is lovely but the other side of Liverpool
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,944
    This "obscure" rule seems to appear whenever Tories can't get rid of their leader. ISTR it being floated under May.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 2,785

    kyf_100 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll take the second too lol

    Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.

    I bought one of these

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-500-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pCVBhCFARIsAGMxhAe8Uoif3Ldkm2fJhqWJnTVkMq4JYhxN1QFuGiiFV-rIvuTIwVSTHUwaAviBEALw_wcB

    With the panels

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/solarsaga-100w-solar-panel

    And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
    I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.

    If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
    The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
    Stop spoiling my fun. I’m feeling so bloody clever. 😇
    Heh, I looked at getting one myself in case of blackouts later this year. I think the US review site for the bluetti I was looking at worked out the kwh cost (unit + battery life) as $0.67 - so about twice the cost of electricity from the grid right now (I'm getting charged 27p per unit).

    Great to have as a backup though. I'm still thinking about getting one, because I'm worried about potential power cuts this winter.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 7,843
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Lancaster itself seemed all right to me, at least the bit I saw within a five minutes walk of the railway station. I visited a pub called The Pub, which was all merrily post-modern.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    So you don’t agree with me 🥹
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Lance Stroll nose his session is over.

    Has he blown it?
    No, he was just tyred out.
    To lose it once during practice for the Azerbaijan Grand Prix may be regarded as a misfortune...

    I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
    How are you fitting the horses into it? Two in the front, two in the back, you in the middle?

    Horses make great drivers. Just tendency to fly over hedges is the problem.
    Nah made it to Etna last night and said goodbye to them. Equitation last week, ancient hist this
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,615
    edited June 11
    @HYUFD

    I tried to make a nice post at the end of the last thread explaining what the issue is with your posts in response to your question. As usual you just ignore it or fail to understand. I don't know why you asked the question if you don't want the answer.

    Do you not think it is a coincidence that @Farooq also replied to you with an almost identical reply to mine explaining what the issue with your posts is.

    Does it not bother you that @MarqueeMark responded to you the way he did? You are on the same side.

    Do you not wonder why I have sociable conversations with @MarqueeMark and @Sean_F and not you?

    Does none of this stuff ever cross your mind.

    One thing is very clear many on here simply won't engage with you, although they will make jokes about you. Just like today you just don't get the jokes. I have often see you like comments when people are making fun of you or you respond as if they were being serious (as you did today).

    You don't have to take any notice of me, but why not ask someone you do respect like Mark or Sean?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 101,708
    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,591
    Three cheers for Prince Charles! If the Royal Family has a purpose it's to keep the country civilised. Patel's policy is so damaging to the reputation of the UK that not commenting would attract the same opprobrium as the Vatican got for the Pope's silence in the 30's.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    edited June 11
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Lance Stroll nose his session is over.

    Has he blown it?
    No, he was just tyred out.
    To lose it once during practice for the Azerbaijan Grand Prix may be regarded as a misfortune...

    I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
    How are you fitting the horses into it? Two in the front, two in the back, you in the middle?

    Horses make great drivers. Just tendency to fly over hedges is the problem.
    Nah made it to Etna last night and said goodbye to them. Equitation last week, ancient hist this
    Is the island that big then for so long a stay?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,487
    Farooq said:

    Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.

    But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?

    It's pretty offensive to label Priti Patel as second rate.
    (wait for it)
    Second-raters like me do not deserve that kind of shabby insult.
    Don't overrate yourself, though.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,944
    edited June 11

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Lancaster itself seemed all right to me, at least the bit I saw within a five minutes walk of the railway station. I visited a pub called The Pub, which was all merrily post-modern.
    Their football ground is called Giant Axe.
    Which is a bit intimidating.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,084
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Southport?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Lance Stroll nose his session is over.

    Has he blown it?
    No, he was just tyred out.
    To lose it once during practice for the Azerbaijan Grand Prix may be regarded as a misfortune...

    I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
    How are you fitting the horses into it? Two in the front, two in the back, you in the middle?

    Horses make great drivers. Just tendency to fly over hedges is the problem.
    Nah made it to Etna last night and said goodbye to them. Equitation last week, ancient hist this
    Is the island that big then for so long a stay?
    It's 125% as big as Wales

    And some would say more interesting, though I couldn't possibly comment
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    edited June 11
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll take the second too lol

    Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.

    I bought one of these

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-500-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pCVBhCFARIsAGMxhAe8Uoif3Ldkm2fJhqWJnTVkMq4JYhxN1QFuGiiFV-rIvuTIwVSTHUwaAviBEALw_wcB

    With the panels

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/solarsaga-100w-solar-panel

    And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
    I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.

    If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
    The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
    Stop spoiling my fun. I’m feeling so bloody clever. 😇
    Heh, I looked at getting one myself in case of blackouts later this year. I think the US review site for the bluetti I was looking at worked out the kwh cost (unit + battery life) as $0.67 - so about twice the cost of electricity from the grid right now (I'm getting charged 27p per unit).

    Great to have as a backup though. I'm still thinking about getting one, because I'm worried about potential power cuts this winter.
    I suppose it’s most ideal for camping or glamping.

    Is wild glamping a term? Charge all the phones if out in nowhere, power a fridge if in one place?

    So as Doctor Y was saying about where it could go if pushi technology, a battery attached to them all day could power up electric car over night, so zero fuel cost?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    Dear Aston Martin

    You might benefit from reminding your drivers they're not playing Dodgems.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    A discrete existence? Alternative branch of the multiverse? From the Times?

    I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970

    Farooq said:

    Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.

    But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?

    It's pretty offensive to label Priti Patel as second rate.
    (wait for it)
    Second-raters like me do not deserve that kind of shabby insult.
    Don't overrate yourself, though.
    Don't take this away from me. You know. I know. We don't have to talk about it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,944
    edited June 11
    Lees is the first England opener to reach 20 in 7 successive innings since Strauss in 2006-7.
    Remarkably. Cook never did it in his career. How's that for a stat?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,012

    Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.

    But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?

    The key thing that saved Bozza on Monday was the size and loyalty of the payroll vote- I'd like to have thought that they weren't all pathetic lickspittles, but hey ho.

    So let's think through this next threat like a Bozza. What threat can the PM use to persuade members of the National Convention (many, I suspect smarting from their new status as ex-Councillors; many senior Romford Conservatives have just lost quite a lot of pay as they've gone down on Cabinet members to opposition backbenchers) to do the wrong thing?

    Whatever it is, it's what he'll try.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,487

    Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.

    But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?

    The Cabinet are in lock step with Boris now. They are all his placemen - had the chance to show their spine last week, but blew it. 2 or 3 resignations Tuesday morning before Cabinet and Boris was on the canvas, being counted out.

    Time to clean out the Augean stables.....
    Quite so; I think you're agreeing with me, and vice versa. Not a decent bit of Machiavellianism to be spotted among any of the spineless wimps.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    IshmaelZ said:

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    A discrete existence? Alternative branch of the multiverse? From the Times?

    I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
    Who have you cast as Richard III in the elimination of this duke of York?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 2,785

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll take the second too lol

    Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.

    I bought one of these

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-500-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pCVBhCFARIsAGMxhAe8Uoif3Ldkm2fJhqWJnTVkMq4JYhxN1QFuGiiFV-rIvuTIwVSTHUwaAviBEALw_wcB

    With the panels

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/solarsaga-100w-solar-panel

    And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
    I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.

    If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
    The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
    Stop spoiling my fun. I’m feeling so bloody clever. 😇
    Heh, I looked at getting one myself in case of blackouts later this year. I think the US review site for the bluetti I was looking at worked out the kwh cost (unit + battery life) as $0.67 - so about twice the cost of electricity from the grid right now (I'm getting charged 27p per unit).

    Great to have as a backup though. I'm still thinking about getting one, because I'm worried about potential power cuts this winter.
    I suppose it’s most ideal for camping or glamping.

    Is wild glamping a term? Charge all the phones if out in nowhere, power a fridge if in one place?
    A lot of people put them in self built camper vans, too, to go completely off grid. I really wish I had the skills to build one, some of the videos I watch of self builds on YouTube look really awesome.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 45,383
    kyf_100 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll take the second too lol

    Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.

    I bought one of these

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-500-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pCVBhCFARIsAGMxhAe8Uoif3Ldkm2fJhqWJnTVkMq4JYhxN1QFuGiiFV-rIvuTIwVSTHUwaAviBEALw_wcB

    With the panels

    https://uk.jackery.com/products/solarsaga-100w-solar-panel

    And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
    I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.

    If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
    The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
    You are falling guilty of the step function fallacy.

    These batteries will lose 0.02-0.05% or so of their capacity every cycle. (And they won't be cycled every day.)

    In all probability you'll notice somewhat less charge, but you won't be replacing the whole battery pack.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,498
    ydoethur said:

    Dear Aston Martin

    You might benefit from reminding your drivers they're not playing Dodgems.

    Stroll is a donkey who can't be fired.
    Vettel seemed to have a similar issue, suggesting that however much of a Donkey Sir Lancelot is, there may have been a handling issue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    dixiedean said:

    Lees is the first England opener to reach 20 in 7 successive innings since Strauss in 2006-7.
    Remarkably. Cook never did it in his career. How's that for a stat?

    wake me when he gets to 50.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,065
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Altrincham is (or was depending on your view) Cheshire.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,318
    On topic, this route to removing Boris would come into play if Boris is sanctioned by the Commons Privileges Committee. Both of which I think will happen.

    The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.

    Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,965
    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on him being egged during his conference speech?

    How do you propose getting into the Tory Conference?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    Applicant said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Altrincham is (or was depending on your view) Cheshire.
    They're a mercenary lot though there, they're for Sale now.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 6,970
    Applicant said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Altrincham is (or was depending on your view) Cheshire.
    yes, very good, check the others now... :wink:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 28,877

    On topic, this route to removing Boris would come into play if Boris is sanctioned by the Commons Privileges Committee. Both of which I think will happen.

    The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.

    Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.

    He can if there's a fridge to hand.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 20,944
    Applicant said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Altrincham is (or was depending on your view) Cheshire.
    And where were the other two?
    That's the joke.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    kinabalu said:

    On topic, this route to removing Boris would come into play if Boris is sanctioned by the Commons Privileges Committee. Both of which I think will happen.

    The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.

    Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.

    He can if there's a fridge to hand.
    He'll give us the cold shoulder.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,615

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on him being egged during his conference speech?

    How do you propose getting into the Tory Conference?
    I don't think he has to. He just needs to supply the eggs to the Tories going in.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on him being egged during his conference speech?

    How do you propose getting into the Tory Conference?
    I don't think he has to. He just needs to supply the eggs to the Tories going in.
    I was just making a little yolk, Officer.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,012

    On topic, this route to removing Boris would come into play if Boris is sanctioned by the Commons Privileges Committee. Both of which I think will happen.

    The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.

    Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.

    Part of the question is going to be how much damage he does to the Conservative brand in the meantime.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,615
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on him being egged during his conference speech?

    How do you propose getting into the Tory Conference?
    I don't think he has to. He just needs to supply the eggs to the Tories going in.
    I was just making a little yolk, Officer.
    White, I believe you.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877
    On topic the “I” newspaper have been running “Boris in trouble about to go” stories all week whilst rest of Fleet Street and TV media have moved on realising Boris is there till election now - it must be something about the “I” editorial team - maybe fellow Travellers with 148 at heart.

    It is interesting though the last two Tory leaders have been threatened with same mechanism? Has it raised its self into view much in the past? Why not used on Sir John and Lady Thatcher? So what’s that mean - the Tories have changed and more factionally selfish these days?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on him being egged during his conference speech?

    How do you propose getting into the Tory Conference?
    I don't think he has to. He just needs to supply the eggs to the Tories going in.
    I was just making a little yolk, Officer.
    White, I believe you.
    Look, if I were able to get into the Tory conference and had a clear line of sight to Johnson, it wouldn't be eggs I'd be throwing. Waste of good food.

    Cowshit, now...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,501
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    A discrete existence? Alternative branch of the multiverse? From the Times?

    I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
    Who have you cast as Richard III in the elimination of this duke of York?
    Not to mention Bell-the-Cat.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 4,188

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    As far as I can tell, this one is entirely on Elizabeth and not the usual fall guys (usually her three idiot sons).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,501
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a market on him being egged during his conference speech?

    How do you propose getting into the Tory Conference?
    I don't think he has to. He just needs to supply the eggs to the Tories going in.
    I was just making a little yolk, Officer.
    White, I believe you.
    A hard shell, obvs, trying to convince the copper.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,501
    IshmaelZ said:

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    A discrete existence? Alternative branch of the multiverse? From the Times?

    I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
    The news is surprising. Maybe at his mother's behest? It's as big a u-turn as those of the Tories in London and Edinburgh.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,474

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    Get him in a Paddington suit and the job's a good un.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    A discrete existence? Alternative branch of the multiverse? From the Times?

    I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
    Who have you cast as Richard III in the elimination of this duke of York?
    Modern history is a mystery to me

    But, changing topic, is this roughly right?

    https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds

    If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    edited June 11
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    A discrete existence? Alternative branch of the multiverse? From the Times?

    I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
    Who have you cast as Richard III in the elimination of this duke of York?
    Modern history is a mystery to me

    But, changing topic, is this roughly right?

    https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds

    If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
    A Bishop inveighed against it under the Normans because it was seen as a Saxon practice. However:

    1) The Normans had villeinage, which was a distinction without a difference where slavery was concerned. The only theoretical distinction - and it was theoretical not real - was that villeins were tied to particular manors, rather than discrete property to be bought and sold separately. In practice, that could still happen.

    2) Although the slave trade was driven underground, it wasn't eliminated. There was no equivalent to the efforts of the West Africa Squadron of the Royal Navy.

    Edit - and it is certainly not true that there were no slaves in England for 600 years. There were not many of them defined as slaves, although they did exist, but that's because as noted above they were defined as villeins instead.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,065

    On topic, this route to removing Boris would come into play if Boris is sanctioned by the Commons Privileges Committee. Both of which I think will happen.

    The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.

    Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.

    Part of the question is going to be how much damage he does to the Conservative brand in the meantime.
    A great question, and it really could go either way. Boris has always been first and foremost a brand of his own so there's a chance the new leader can disassociate - if nothing else, there isn't really a Borisite faction as such.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 5,877

    Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.

    But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?

    The key thing that saved Bozza on Monday was the size and loyalty of the payroll vote- I'd like to have thought that they weren't all pathetic lickspittles, but hey ho.

    So let's think through this next threat like a Bozza. What threat can the PM use to persuade members of the National Convention (many, I suspect smarting from their new status as ex-Councillors; many senior Romford Conservatives have just lost quite a lot of pay as they've gone down on Cabinet members to opposition backbenchers) to do the wrong thing?

    Whatever it is, it's what he'll try.
    That’s the concerning bit, you know, ripping up green taxes to win this vote, going to war with EU just to keep ERG happy. It’s the opposite of good government.

    Big G saying how wonderful this threat from NCC is to Boris, but what do they want? When constituency chairmen surface on media they want every tax slashed regardless, regardless of its impact in economic cycle. They want green taxes gone. These constituency chairpersons sound like RefUK!

    The Tories need to be out 10 years to sort themselves out, and only allowed back in when fiscally conservative again, back to centre right, and back on the green and woke agenda.

    But you know there will be Boris fans whingeing, he only lost general election because of division from rebels hollowing him out from within, just like Corbynite say today, he was brilliant and right if not destroyed from within.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,501
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    A discrete existence? Alternative branch of the multiverse? From the Times?

    I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
    Who have you cast as Richard III in the elimination of this duke of York?
    Modern history is a mystery to me

    But, changing topic, is this roughly right?

    https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds

    If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
    What I'd want to know is how far the Norman feudal system substituted for formal chattel slavery. IANAE but if all the lower ranks were serfs tied to the land they were as good as slaves in many ways; roughly equivalent to Scottish coal miners/saltworkers in the C18. Prsesumably, like them, they went with the land?

    Compare the (admittedly short-lived) "apprenticeship" system in the Windies after the formal abolition of slavery.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,495
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.

  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 276
    FPT reminder: The Alaska special election primary to replace the late Don Young is being held today. (Though mail ballots can be postmarked later.) There are 48 candidates, including "Santa Claus". The top four will go on to a general election, this August. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Alaska's_at-large_congressional_district_special_election
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,448
    edited June 11
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    A discrete existence? Alternative branch of the multiverse? From the Times?

    I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
    Who have you cast as Richard III in the elimination of this duke of York?
    Modern history is a mystery to me

    But, changing topic, is this roughly right?

    https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds

    If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
    Slavery was replaced by serfdom in the eleventh and twelfth centuries, for reasons that are still controversial, But though the word used to describe them changed, probably to get around the prohibition in the Bible, there wasn't that much difference between those two orders: serfs/villeins still owned nothing, were bound to their lord's land and their children inherited their status.

    Then serfdom slowly died out in the century after the Black Death when it was no longer profitable because peasants kept leaving their land.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,495
    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    Quite a bit resting on 'If' 'because' and 'OK' in that argument. The rest of it is fine.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,962
    edited June 11
    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    You must eat the gonads of the sea urchin. They are a traditional delicacy in Syracuse - and quite delicious, if an acquired taste

    Hint: they’re the orange bits
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,205
    edited June 11
    algarkirk said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.

    Saddleworth is another place that pretends to be in Yorkshire.
    http://whiterose.saddleworth.net/whitered.htm

    What about Coniston? Definitely Lancashire.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034
    EPG said:

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    As far as I can tell, this one is entirely on Elizabeth and not the usual fall guys (usually her three idiot sons).
    You think she is Mom from Futurama? Nice idea.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728

    algarkirk said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.

    Saddleworth is another place that pretends to be in Yorkshire.
    You can't Oldham back.

    Incidentally there's something wrong with my SkyQ box. It's just shown Ollie Pope hitting a four.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034
    edited June 11
    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    Quite a bit resting on 'If' 'because' and 'OK' in that argument. The rest of it is fine.

    Not my argument

    But I can point you to death camps and Jew deportations
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 52,205

    Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.

    But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?

    The key thing that saved Bozza on Monday was the size and loyalty of the payroll vote- I'd like to have thought that they weren't all pathetic lickspittles, but hey ho.

    So let's think through this next threat like a Bozza. What threat can the PM use to persuade members of the National Convention (many, I suspect smarting from their new status as ex-Councillors; many senior Romford Conservatives have just lost quite a lot of pay as they've gone down on Cabinet members to opposition backbenchers) to do the wrong thing?

    Whatever it is, it's what he'll try.
    That’s the concerning bit, you know, ripping up green taxes to win this vote, going to war with EU just to keep ERG happy. It’s the opposite of good government.

    Big G saying how wonderful this threat from NCC is to Boris, but what do they want? When constituency chairmen surface on media they want every tax slashed regardless, regardless of its impact in economic cycle. They want green taxes gone. These constituency chairpersons sound like RefUK!

    The Tories need to be out 10 years to sort themselves out, and only allowed back in when fiscally conservative again, back to centre right, and back on the green and woke agenda.

    But you know there will be Boris fans whingeing, he only lost general election because of division from rebels hollowing him out from within, just like Corbynite say today, he was brilliant and right if not destroyed from within.
    Any threat to Boris is wonderful and one will succeed
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,495
    Fishing said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Republic now!

    Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty

    If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.

    Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.

    As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.

    The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.

    Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3

    A discrete existence? Alternative branch of the multiverse? From the Times?

    I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
    Who have you cast as Richard III in the elimination of this duke of York?
    Modern history is a mystery to me

    But, changing topic, is this roughly right?

    https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds

    If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
    Slavery was replaced by serfdom in the eleventh and twelfth centuries, for reasons that are still controversial, But though the word used to describe them changed, probably to get around the prohibition in the Bible, there wasn't that much difference between those two orders: serfs/villeins still owned nothing, were bound to their lord's land and their children inherited their status.

    Then serfdom slowly died out in the century after the Black Death when it was no longer profitable because peasants kept leaving their land.
    'Slave' is a very broad term. Cicero's 'slave' Tiro or Onesimus in the New Testament will have lived very different lives from captives in the silver mines, Spartacus and others.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 20,962
    edited June 11
    IshmaelZ said:

    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    Quite a bit resting on 'If' 'because' and 'OK' in that argument. The rest of it is fine.

    Not my argument
    Also, check out the famous baroque towns of south east Sicily: Noto, Modica, Ragusa, etc. All built after a terrible earthquake in the late 17th century, IIRC, and built in a gloriously harmonious style. And Modica has weird gritty chocolate which is apparently how all chocolate once was
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,205
    edited June 11
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Maybe Heather Wheeler is right about Blackpool

    She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.

    The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
    I've been to some nice places in Lancashire:
    Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
    Wars have been started for lesser reasons than describing Todmorden as being in Lancashire.

    Saddleworth is another place that pretends to be in Yorkshire.
    You can't Oldham back.

    Incidentally there's something wrong with my SkyQ box. It's just shown Ollie Pope hitting a four.
    They are doing live deep fakes now?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    @IshmaelZ posing that question about Norman slavery led me to think of something else, which I will admit I hadn't thought of for years - when was villeinage actually abolished in England?

    The traditional view is it died with the Black Death. That was proved to be wrong in the 1960s when an examination of the records of the palatinate of Durham revealed it was more tightly controlled, due to the shortage of labour making villeins a more valuable resource.

    But I am astonished to find that there is a record of Elizabeth I paying a certain Sir Henry Lee (presumably this one) very handsomely indeed to manumit 300 villeins as late as 1575.

    I had no idea it lasted so deep into the Tudor era. I assumed the parish system of poor relief was the last vestige of it. But apparently not.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 45,383

    FPT reminder: The Alaska special election primary to replace the late Don Young is being held today. (Though mail ballots can be postmarked later.) There are 48 candidates, including "Santa Claus". The top four will go on to a general election, this August. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Alaska's_at-large_congressional_district_special_election

    Don't forget that they also holding the jungle primary for the November's election at the same time, the candidate lists aren't the same, and it's entirely possible that the winner of the special won't even be in the final round in November.

    Also, remember that there's the ranked choice voting of the top four candidates.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,534
    edited June 11
    Roger said:

    Three cheers for Prince Charles! If the Royal Family has a purpose it's to keep the country civilised. Patel's policy is so damaging to the reputation of the UK that not commenting would attract the same opprobrium as the Vatican got for the Pope's silence in the 30's.

    Indeed. Compared to the culture war rantngs of both sides of the polarity these days, the monarchy looks increasingly sane.

    As I mentioned a little earlier on, those up in arms on the right should also pause to consider why they haven't criticised Charles in thirty years of his strictures on how our entire physical built environment should look, and what we should all live in ; not a few of which have actually turned out to be ahead of the game, as for his similar hobby-horses on the environment and organic farming, from all the way back in the 1980s, too.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,830
    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,862
    edited June 11
    Roger said:

    Three cheers for Prince Charles! If the Royal Family has a purpose it's to keep the country civilised. Patel's policy is so damaging to the reputation of the UK that not commenting would attract the same opprobrium as the Vatican got for the Pope's silence in the 30's.

    I thought it was basically a recooked abandoned Blair policy from the early 00s?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034
    ydoethur said:

    @IshmaelZ posing that question about Norman slavery led me to think of something else, which I will admit I hadn't thought of for years - when was villeinage actually abolished in England?

    The traditional view is it died with the Black Death. That was proved to be wrong in the 1960s when an examination of the records of the palatinate of Durham revealed it was more tightly controlled, due to the shortage of labour making villeins a more valuable resource.

    But I am astonished to find that there is a record of Elizabeth I paying a certain Sir Henry Lee (presumably this one) very handsomely indeed to manumit 300 villeins as late as 1575.

    I had no idea it lasted so deep into the Tudor era. I assumed the parish system of poor relief was the last vestige of it. But apparently not.

    English land law being what it is (and villeins were land, pretty much) probably in the Settled Land Act 1925
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    GIN1138 said:

    Roger said:

    Three cheers for Prince Charles! If the Royal Family has a purpose it's to keep the country civilised. Patel's policy is so damaging to the reputation of the UK that not commenting would attract the same opprobrium as the Vatican got for the Pope's silence in the 30's.

    I thought it was basically a recooked Blair policy from the early 00s?
    You would hope after this lapse of time we would be more civilised than the war criminal.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,034
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    algarkirk said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    FPT



    Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.

    Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?


    Quite a bit resting on 'If' 'because' and 'OK' in that argument. The rest of it is fine.

    Not my argument
    Also, check out the famous baroque towns of south east Sicily: Noto, Modica, Ragusa, etc. All built after a terrible earthquake in the late 17th century, IIRC, and built in a gloriously harmonious style. And Modica has weird gritty chocolate which is apparently how all chocolate once was
    Ars longa, vita brevis. I really need to go anti clock from here to do Taormina Cefalu Palermo etc

    Might check out Pantalica necropolis tomorrow
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,728
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    @IshmaelZ posing that question about Norman slavery led me to think of something else, which I will admit I hadn't thought of for years - when was villeinage actually abolished in England?

    The traditional view is it died with the Black Death. That was proved to be wrong in the 1960s when an examination of the records of the palatinate of Durham revealed it was more tightly controlled, due to the shortage of labour making villeins a more valuable resource.

    But I am astonished to find that there is a record of Elizabeth I paying a certain Sir Henry Lee (presumably this one) very handsomely indeed to manumit 300 villeins as late as 1575.

    I had no idea it lasted so deep into the Tudor era. I assumed the parish system of poor relief was the last vestige of it. But apparently not.

    English land law being what it is (and villeins were land, pretty much) probably in the Settled Land Act 1925
    I would have guessed it would actually have been abolished by Cromwell, if it had still been in force. It would certainly have been abolished under the Slavery Abolition Act 1833 if it had not been abolished before, although there were many slaves in Britain itself at that time.
This discussion has been closed.