Johnson could face a confidence vote from the Tory grassroots – politicalbetting.com
In an excellent piece in the I the paper’s Chief Political Commentator, Paul Waugh, sets out the mechanics of how Johnson could face a confidence vote from the Tory grassroots.
Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.
And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.
And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.
If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.
And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.
If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.
And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.
If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
Well, it does at the moment. For how much longer?
Next year power will be being produced at a thumping loss. Should the government abandon the price cap, things could go wahoonie shaped fast.
To lose it once during practice for the Azerbaijan Grand Prix may be regarded as a misfortune...
I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.
And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.
If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
Stop spoiling my fun. I’m feeling so bloody clever. 😇
Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.
But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?
She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.
The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
Lancs South of Preston is a toilet, but go n of there and it is God's own county
You mean the bit that looks a bit like Yorkshire but unfortunately has Lancastrians in it? Shropshire has always looked nice to me, but I’ve never spent a night in it.
To lose it once during practice for the Azerbaijan Grand Prix may be regarded as a misfortune...
I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
How are you fitting the horses into it? Two in the front, two in the back, you in the middle?
Horses make great drivers. Just tendency to fly over hedges is the problem.
She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.
The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
Lancs South of Preston is a toilet, but go n of there and it is God's own county
You mean the bit that looks a bit like Yorkshire but unfortunately has Lancastrians in it? Shropshire has always looked nice to me, but I’ve never spent a night in it.
Yes that's fair
Shropshire is lovely but the other side of Liverpool
Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.
And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.
If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
Stop spoiling my fun. I’m feeling so bloody clever. 😇
Heh, I looked at getting one myself in case of blackouts later this year. I think the US review site for the bluetti I was looking at worked out the kwh cost (unit + battery life) as $0.67 - so about twice the cost of electricity from the grid right now (I'm getting charged 27p per unit).
Great to have as a backup though. I'm still thinking about getting one, because I'm worried about potential power cuts this winter.
She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.
The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
I've been to some nice places in Lancashire: Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
Lancaster itself seemed all right to me, at least the bit I saw within a five minutes walk of the railway station. I visited a pub called The Pub, which was all merrily post-modern.
To lose it once during practice for the Azerbaijan Grand Prix may be regarded as a misfortune...
I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
How are you fitting the horses into it? Two in the front, two in the back, you in the middle?
Horses make great drivers. Just tendency to fly over hedges is the problem.
Nah made it to Etna last night and said goodbye to them. Equitation last week, ancient hist this
I tried to make a nice post at the end of the last thread explaining what the issue is with your posts in response to your question. As usual you just ignore it or fail to understand. I don't know why you asked the question if you don't want the answer.
Do you not think it is a coincidence that @Farooq also replied to you with an almost identical reply to mine explaining what the issue with your posts is.
Does it not bother you that @MarqueeMark responded to you the way he did? You are on the same side.
Do you not wonder why I have sociable conversations with @MarqueeMark and @Sean_F and not you?
Does none of this stuff ever cross your mind.
One thing is very clear many on here simply won't engage with you, although they will make jokes about you. Just like today you just don't get the jokes. I have often see you like comments when people are making fun of you or you respond as if they were being serious (as you did today).
You don't have to take any notice of me, but why not ask someone you do respect like Mark or Sean?
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
Three cheers for Prince Charles! If the Royal Family has a purpose it's to keep the country civilised. Patel's policy is so damaging to the reputation of the UK that not commenting would attract the same opprobrium as the Vatican got for the Pope's silence in the 30's.
To lose it once during practice for the Azerbaijan Grand Prix may be regarded as a misfortune...
I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
How are you fitting the horses into it? Two in the front, two in the back, you in the middle?
Horses make great drivers. Just tendency to fly over hedges is the problem.
Nah made it to Etna last night and said goodbye to them. Equitation last week, ancient hist this
Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.
But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?
It's pretty offensive to label Priti Patel as second rate. (wait for it) Second-raters like me do not deserve that kind of shabby insult.
She is right about Blackpool, it’s a flipping dump of a place, as most of Lancashire is.
The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
I've been to some nice places in Lancashire: Altrincham, Todmorden, and Ingelton spring to mind
Lancaster itself seemed all right to me, at least the bit I saw within a five minutes walk of the railway station. I visited a pub called The Pub, which was all merrily post-modern.
Their football ground is called Giant Axe. Which is a bit intimidating.
Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.
But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?
The Cabinet are in lock step with Boris now. They are all his placemen - had the chance to show their spine last week, but blew it. 2 or 3 resignations Tuesday morning before Cabinet and Boris was on the canvas, being counted out.
To lose it once during practice for the Azerbaijan Grand Prix may be regarded as a misfortune...
I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
How are you fitting the horses into it? Two in the front, two in the back, you in the middle?
Horses make great drivers. Just tendency to fly over hedges is the problem.
Nah made it to Etna last night and said goodbye to them. Equitation last week, ancient hist this
Is the island that big then for so long a stay?
It's 125% as big as Wales
And some would say more interesting, though I couldn't possibly comment
Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.
And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.
If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
Stop spoiling my fun. I’m feeling so bloody clever. 😇
Heh, I looked at getting one myself in case of blackouts later this year. I think the US review site for the bluetti I was looking at worked out the kwh cost (unit + battery life) as $0.67 - so about twice the cost of electricity from the grid right now (I'm getting charged 27p per unit).
Great to have as a backup though. I'm still thinking about getting one, because I'm worried about potential power cuts this winter.
I suppose it’s most ideal for camping or glamping.
Is wild glamping a term? Charge all the phones if out in nowhere, power a fridge if in one place?
So as Doctor Y was saying about where it could go if pushi technology, a battery attached to them all day could power up electric car over night, so zero fuel cost?
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
Lees is the first England opener to reach 20 in 7 successive innings since Strauss in 2006-7. Remarkably. Cook never did it in his career. How's that for a stat?
Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.
But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?
The key thing that saved Bozza on Monday was the size and loyalty of the payroll vote- I'd like to have thought that they weren't all pathetic lickspittles, but hey ho.
So let's think through this next threat like a Bozza. What threat can the PM use to persuade members of the National Convention (many, I suspect smarting from their new status as ex-Councillors; many senior Romford Conservatives have just lost quite a lot of pay as they've gone down on Cabinet members to opposition backbenchers) to do the wrong thing?
Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.
But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?
The Cabinet are in lock step with Boris now. They are all his placemen - had the chance to show their spine last week, but blew it. 2 or 3 resignations Tuesday morning before Cabinet and Boris was on the canvas, being counted out.
Time to clean out the Augean stables.....
Quite so; I think you're agreeing with me, and vice versa. Not a decent bit of Machiavellianism to be spotted among any of the spineless wimps.
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.
And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.
If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
Stop spoiling my fun. I’m feeling so bloody clever. 😇
Heh, I looked at getting one myself in case of blackouts later this year. I think the US review site for the bluetti I was looking at worked out the kwh cost (unit + battery life) as $0.67 - so about twice the cost of electricity from the grid right now (I'm getting charged 27p per unit).
Great to have as a backup though. I'm still thinking about getting one, because I'm worried about potential power cuts this winter.
I suppose it’s most ideal for camping or glamping.
Is wild glamping a term? Charge all the phones if out in nowhere, power a fridge if in one place?
A lot of people put them in self built camper vans, too, to go completely off grid. I really wish I had the skills to build one, some of the videos I watch of self builds on YouTube look really awesome.
Happy to have conversation with you then, Pulpstar, As I’m not cooking dinner tonight. Shall I start? I have something to say because I am feeling so bloody clever.
And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
I've got ten of them and they're cooking my dinner.
If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
The problem is with a lot of these systems the batteries are only good for 500 cycles - even the higher quality ones like the Bluetti are rated for 2000 cycles, it's going to need replacing every five years at a cost per kwh that way exceeds the cost from the national grid.
You are falling guilty of the step function fallacy.
These batteries will lose 0.02-0.05% or so of their capacity every cycle. (And they won't be cycled every day.)
In all probability you'll notice somewhat less charge, but you won't be replacing the whole battery pack.
You might benefit from reminding your drivers they're not playing Dodgems.
Stroll is a donkey who can't be fired. Vettel seemed to have a similar issue, suggesting that however much of a Donkey Sir Lancelot is, there may have been a handling issue.
Lees is the first England opener to reach 20 in 7 successive innings since Strauss in 2006-7. Remarkably. Cook never did it in his career. How's that for a stat?
On topic, this route to removing Boris would come into play if Boris is sanctioned by the Commons Privileges Committee. Both of which I think will happen.
The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.
Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.
On topic, this route to removing Boris would come into play if Boris is sanctioned by the Commons Privileges Committee. Both of which I think will happen.
The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.
Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.
On topic, this route to removing Boris would come into play if Boris is sanctioned by the Commons Privileges Committee. Both of which I think will happen.
The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.
Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.
On topic, this route to removing Boris would come into play if Boris is sanctioned by the Commons Privileges Committee. Both of which I think will happen.
The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.
Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.
Part of the question is going to be how much damage he does to the Conservative brand in the meantime.
On topic the “I” newspaper have been running “Boris in trouble about to go” stories all week whilst rest of Fleet Street and TV media have moved on realising Boris is there till election now - it must be something about the “I” editorial team - maybe fellow Travellers with 148 at heart.
It is interesting though the last two Tory leaders have been threatened with same mechanism? Has it raised its self into view much in the past? Why not used on Sir John and Lady Thatcher? So what’s that mean - the Tories have changed and more factionally selfish these days?
Is there a market on him being egged during his conference speech?
How do you propose getting into the Tory Conference?
I don't think he has to. He just needs to supply the eggs to the Tories going in.
I was just making a little yolk, Officer.
White, I believe you.
Look, if I were able to get into the Tory conference and had a clear line of sight to Johnson, it wouldn't be eggs I'd be throwing. Waste of good food.
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
A Bishop inveighed against it under the Normans because it was seen as a Saxon practice. However:
1) The Normans had villeinage, which was a distinction without a difference where slavery was concerned. The only theoretical distinction - and it was theoretical not real - was that villeins were tied to particular manors, rather than discrete property to be bought and sold separately. In practice, that could still happen.
2) Although the slave trade was driven underground, it wasn't eliminated. There was no equivalent to the efforts of the West Africa Squadron of the Royal Navy.
Edit - and it is certainly not true that there were no slaves in England for 600 years. There were not many of them defined as slaves, although they did exist, but that's because as noted above they were defined as villeins instead.
On topic, this route to removing Boris would come into play if Boris is sanctioned by the Commons Privileges Committee. Both of which I think will happen.
The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.
Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.
Part of the question is going to be how much damage he does to the Conservative brand in the meantime.
A great question, and it really could go either way. Boris has always been first and foremost a brand of his own so there's a chance the new leader can disassociate - if nothing else, there isn't really a Borisite faction as such.
Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.
But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?
The key thing that saved Bozza on Monday was the size and loyalty of the payroll vote- I'd like to have thought that they weren't all pathetic lickspittles, but hey ho.
So let's think through this next threat like a Bozza. What threat can the PM use to persuade members of the National Convention (many, I suspect smarting from their new status as ex-Councillors; many senior Romford Conservatives have just lost quite a lot of pay as they've gone down on Cabinet members to opposition backbenchers) to do the wrong thing?
Whatever it is, it's what he'll try.
That’s the concerning bit, you know, ripping up green taxes to win this vote, going to war with EU just to keep ERG happy. It’s the opposite of good government.
Big G saying how wonderful this threat from NCC is to Boris, but what do they want? When constituency chairmen surface on media they want every tax slashed regardless, regardless of its impact in economic cycle. They want green taxes gone. These constituency chairpersons sound like RefUK!
The Tories need to be out 10 years to sort themselves out, and only allowed back in when fiscally conservative again, back to centre right, and back on the green and woke agenda.
But you know there will be Boris fans whingeing, he only lost general election because of division from rebels hollowing him out from within, just like Corbynite say today, he was brilliant and right if not destroyed from within.
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
What I'd want to know is how far the Norman feudal system substituted for formal chattel slavery. IANAE but if all the lower ranks were serfs tied to the land they were as good as slaves in many ways; roughly equivalent to Scottish coal miners/saltworkers in the C18. Prsesumably, like them, they went with the land?
Compare the (admittedly short-lived) "apprenticeship" system in the Windies after the formal abolition of slavery.
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
Slavery was replaced by serfdom in the eleventh and twelfth centuries, for reasons that are still controversial, But though the word used to describe them changed, probably to get around the prohibition in the Bible, there wasn't that much difference between those two orders: serfs/villeins still owned nothing, were bound to their lord's land and their children inherited their status.
Then serfdom slowly died out in the century after the Black Death when it was no longer profitable because peasants kept leaving their land.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
Quite a bit resting on 'If' 'because' and 'OK' in that argument. The rest of it is fine.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
You must eat the gonads of the sea urchin. They are a traditional delicacy in Syracuse - and quite delicious, if an acquired taste
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
Quite a bit resting on 'If' 'because' and 'OK' in that argument. The rest of it is fine.
Not my argument
But I can point you to death camps and Jew deportations
Far be it from me to intrude on Tory intrigue, but it is interesting that Hunt and Mordaunt are favourites to succeed Boris, and quite a few distinguished Tories on here like Mordaunt; I can see why.
But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?
The key thing that saved Bozza on Monday was the size and loyalty of the payroll vote- I'd like to have thought that they weren't all pathetic lickspittles, but hey ho.
So let's think through this next threat like a Bozza. What threat can the PM use to persuade members of the National Convention (many, I suspect smarting from their new status as ex-Councillors; many senior Romford Conservatives have just lost quite a lot of pay as they've gone down on Cabinet members to opposition backbenchers) to do the wrong thing?
Whatever it is, it's what he'll try.
That’s the concerning bit, you know, ripping up green taxes to win this vote, going to war with EU just to keep ERG happy. It’s the opposite of good government.
Big G saying how wonderful this threat from NCC is to Boris, but what do they want? When constituency chairmen surface on media they want every tax slashed regardless, regardless of its impact in economic cycle. They want green taxes gone. These constituency chairpersons sound like RefUK!
The Tories need to be out 10 years to sort themselves out, and only allowed back in when fiscally conservative again, back to centre right, and back on the green and woke agenda.
But you know there will be Boris fans whingeing, he only lost general election because of division from rebels hollowing him out from within, just like Corbynite say today, he was brilliant and right if not destroyed from within.
Any threat to Boris is wonderful and one will succeed
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
Slavery was replaced by serfdom in the eleventh and twelfth centuries, for reasons that are still controversial, But though the word used to describe them changed, probably to get around the prohibition in the Bible, there wasn't that much difference between those two orders: serfs/villeins still owned nothing, were bound to their lord's land and their children inherited their status.
Then serfdom slowly died out in the century after the Black Death when it was no longer profitable because peasants kept leaving their land.
'Slave' is a very broad term. Cicero's 'slave' Tiro or Onesimus in the New Testament will have lived very different lives from captives in the silver mines, Spartacus and others.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
Quite a bit resting on 'If' 'because' and 'OK' in that argument. The rest of it is fine.
Not my argument
Also, check out the famous baroque towns of south east Sicily: Noto, Modica, Ragusa, etc. All built after a terrible earthquake in the late 17th century, IIRC, and built in a gloriously harmonious style. And Modica has weird gritty chocolate which is apparently how all chocolate once was
@IshmaelZ posing that question about Norman slavery led me to think of something else, which I will admit I hadn't thought of for years - when was villeinage actually abolished in England?
The traditional view is it died with the Black Death. That was proved to be wrong in the 1960s when an examination of the records of the palatinate of Durham revealed it was more tightly controlled, due to the shortage of labour making villeins a more valuable resource.
But I am astonished to find that there is a record of Elizabeth I paying a certain Sir Henry Lee (presumably this one) very handsomely indeed to manumit 300 villeins as late as 1575.
I had no idea it lasted so deep into the Tudor era. I assumed the parish system of poor relief was the last vestige of it. But apparently not.
Don't forget that they also holding the jungle primary for the November's election at the same time, the candidate lists aren't the same, and it's entirely possible that the winner of the special won't even be in the final round in November.
Also, remember that there's the ranked choice voting of the top four candidates.
Three cheers for Prince Charles! If the Royal Family has a purpose it's to keep the country civilised. Patel's policy is so damaging to the reputation of the UK that not commenting would attract the same opprobrium as the Vatican got for the Pope's silence in the 30's.
Indeed. Compared to the culture war rantngs of both sides of the polarity these days, the monarchy looks increasingly sane.
As I mentioned a little earlier on, those up in arms on the right should also pause to consider why they haven't criticised Charles in thirty years of his strictures on how our entire physical built environment should look, and what we should all live in ; not a few of which have actually turned out to be ahead of the game, as for his similar hobby-horses on the environment and organic farming, from all the way back in the 1980s, too.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
Three cheers for Prince Charles! If the Royal Family has a purpose it's to keep the country civilised. Patel's policy is so damaging to the reputation of the UK that not commenting would attract the same opprobrium as the Vatican got for the Pope's silence in the 30's.
I thought it was basically a recooked abandoned Blair policy from the early 00s?
@IshmaelZ posing that question about Norman slavery led me to think of something else, which I will admit I hadn't thought of for years - when was villeinage actually abolished in England?
The traditional view is it died with the Black Death. That was proved to be wrong in the 1960s when an examination of the records of the palatinate of Durham revealed it was more tightly controlled, due to the shortage of labour making villeins a more valuable resource.
But I am astonished to find that there is a record of Elizabeth I paying a certain Sir Henry Lee (presumably this one) very handsomely indeed to manumit 300 villeins as late as 1575.
I had no idea it lasted so deep into the Tudor era. I assumed the parish system of poor relief was the last vestige of it. But apparently not.
English land law being what it is (and villeins were land, pretty much) probably in the Settled Land Act 1925
Three cheers for Prince Charles! If the Royal Family has a purpose it's to keep the country civilised. Patel's policy is so damaging to the reputation of the UK that not commenting would attract the same opprobrium as the Vatican got for the Pope's silence in the 30's.
I thought it was basically a recooked Blair policy from the early 00s?
You would hope after this lapse of time we would be more civilised than the war criminal.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
Quite a bit resting on 'If' 'because' and 'OK' in that argument. The rest of it is fine.
Not my argument
Also, check out the famous baroque towns of south east Sicily: Noto, Modica, Ragusa, etc. All built after a terrible earthquake in the late 17th century, IIRC, and built in a gloriously harmonious style. And Modica has weird gritty chocolate which is apparently how all chocolate once was
Ars longa, vita brevis. I really need to go anti clock from here to do Taormina Cefalu Palermo etc
@IshmaelZ posing that question about Norman slavery led me to think of something else, which I will admit I hadn't thought of for years - when was villeinage actually abolished in England?
The traditional view is it died with the Black Death. That was proved to be wrong in the 1960s when an examination of the records of the palatinate of Durham revealed it was more tightly controlled, due to the shortage of labour making villeins a more valuable resource.
But I am astonished to find that there is a record of Elizabeth I paying a certain Sir Henry Lee (presumably this one) very handsomely indeed to manumit 300 villeins as late as 1575.
I had no idea it lasted so deep into the Tudor era. I assumed the parish system of poor relief was the last vestige of it. But apparently not.
English land law being what it is (and villeins were land, pretty much) probably in the Settled Land Act 1925
I would have guessed it would actually have been abolished by Cromwell, if it had still been in force. It would certainly have been abolished under the Slavery Abolition Act 1833 if it had not been abolished before, although there were many slaves in Britain itself at that time.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
No. Don't be a twit. I am objecting to an argument that you will often see made, here and elsewhere
Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
Quite a bit resting on 'If' 'because' and 'OK' in that argument. The rest of it is fine.
Not my argument
Also, check out the famous baroque towns of south east Sicily: Noto, Modica, Ragusa, etc. All built after a terrible earthquake in the late 17th century, IIRC, and built in a gloriously harmonious style. And Modica has weird gritty chocolate which is apparently how all chocolate once was
Ars longa, vita brevis. I really need to go anti clock from here to do Taormina Cefalu Palermo etc
Might check out Pantalica necropolis tomorrow
That’s a shame. They are quite special
Taormina is beautiful (“so pretty it hurts” - Ernest Hemingway) but HORRIBLY touristy. Likewise Cefalu and, to a lesser extent, Palermo
However in Cefalu you can break into Aleister Crowley’s “Abbey of Thelema” and see where he fatally poisoned a friend with cat’s blood and then got a goat to rape his wife. It’s actually an old run down bungalow and when I broke in - literally, broke in, I had to climb in through a window - you could still see Crowley’s hideous paintings on the wall
I believe you can’t do that any more and the Abbey of Thelema is off limits and sold for millions. Still, I did it and I can sell you photos of me there if that helps
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
The slave trade was not ok, whatever may have happened in the ancient world, and nor was the holocaust. Are you trolling, or perhaps trying to ensnare political opponents into saying things that can be later used against them?
No. Don't be a twit. I am objecting to an argument that you will often see made, here and elsewhere
Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
All of which is actually true, and is a reason to not see the Atlantic slave trade as a 'unique' evil for which Britain alone needs to be punished, as some of the dumber elements of the left want to.
To come back to your original point, can I ask what happened to the bodies of the murdered Jews? Were they rendered down, the fat used for soap, the hair used to make blankets, and the teeth taken to make dentures?
If not I suggest the Holocaust still rather stands out.
Comments
3.5 at moment to leave in 2022.
I bought one of these
https://uk.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-500-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-pCVBhCFARIsAGMxhAe8Uoif3Ldkm2fJhqWJnTVkMq4JYhxN1QFuGiiFV-rIvuTIwVSTHUwaAviBEALw_wcB
With the panels
https://uk.jackery.com/products/solarsaga-100w-solar-panel
And it’s been out on the bedroom balcony And we have both dried our hair after showering together, on the power of todays sun and now it’s charging our phones!
If we were serious about reducing our dependence on Mad Vlad, putting solar panels and batteries in every house would make a massive difference.
Syracuse. Looks lovely, is actually the quarry which was a death camp for Athenian POWs in 413.
Raises the question, if the British slave trade was ok because the ancient world hAD sLaVEs yOu knOW, if they also had death camps and forced deportation and enslavement of Jews, doesn't the holocaust get a clean bill of health too?
Next year power will be being produced at a thumping loss. Should the government abandon the price cap, things could go wahoonie shaped fast.
And that's assuming current technology.
The cabinet has an honest straight talking member, make them the compromise candidate,
I have just picked up a Sicilian hire car. Never had one that didn’t have a virtually clean sheet on pick up before. This one has 9 defects all moderate or serious, and comes with the warning that if you park on the street in Catania it'll be nicked as soon as your back is turned.
But what does this tell us about the Cabinet? It's extraordinary that neither of the favourites are in the Cabinet. Equally, it's strange (not) that some senior members of the Cabinet, Raab and Patel for example, are reckoned to have no chance. I know that Sunak sort of blew it, but you'd expect others in the Cabinet to emerge to grab the crown. Unless, of course, appointments to the Cabinet were made by somebody who wanted second-raters who agreed with him?
Horses make great drivers. Just tendency to fly over hedges is the problem.
Shropshire is lovely but the other side of Liverpool
Great to have as a backup though. I'm still thinking about getting one, because I'm worried about potential power cuts this winter.
I tried to make a nice post at the end of the last thread explaining what the issue is with your posts in response to your question. As usual you just ignore it or fail to understand. I don't know why you asked the question if you don't want the answer.
Do you not think it is a coincidence that @Farooq also replied to you with an almost identical reply to mine explaining what the issue with your posts is.
Does it not bother you that @MarqueeMark responded to you the way he did? You are on the same side.
Do you not wonder why I have sociable conversations with @MarqueeMark and @Sean_F and not you?
Does none of this stuff ever cross your mind.
One thing is very clear many on here simply won't engage with you, although they will make jokes about you. Just like today you just don't get the jokes. I have often see you like comments when people are making fun of you or you respond as if they were being serious (as you did today).
You don't have to take any notice of me, but why not ask someone you do respect like Mark or Sean?
Palace to ‘support Andrew in rebuilding his life’ as pariah prince makes surprise return to public duty
If the royal family hoped — and most of them did — that the Duke of York would quietly fade away into a discrete existence of horse riding and private lunches with the Queen behind castle walls, their hopes have been dashed.
Prince Andrew — who recently paid a multimillion-pound settlement to Virginia Giuffre to keep her allegations of sexual abuse, which he denies, out of court — is set to make a controversial return to public life on Monday.
As a member of the Order of the Garter, this country’s oldest and most senior order of chivalry, Andrew, 62, will appear alongside senior members of the royal family at the Garter Day service at Windsor Castle.
The Buckingham Palace machine has put an ocean between itself and the pariah prince, repeatedly clarifying that it does not speak for Andrew, who is no longer a working member of the royal family, and that it does not expect to again.
Today the mood music has suddenly changed, with an acknowledgment that the “Andrew problem” needs fixing. In response to questions from The Sunday Times regarding his planned attendance at Garter Day, a senior palace source said: “Clearly at some point soon, thought will have to be given to how to support the duke as, away from the public gaze, he seeks to slowly rebuild his life in a different direction. There is of course a real awareness and sensitivity to public feelings.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/palace-to-support-andrew-in-rebuilding-his-life-as-poison-prince-makes-surprise-return-to-public-duty-r6jskx9b3
Which is a bit intimidating.
Time to clean out the Augean stables.....
And some would say more interesting, though I couldn't possibly comment
Is wild glamping a term? Charge all the phones if out in nowhere, power a fridge if in one place?
So as Doctor Y was saying about where it could go if pushi technology, a battery attached to them all day could power up electric car over night, so zero fuel cost?
You might benefit from reminding your drivers they're not playing Dodgems.
I can think of a permanent solution to the Andrew problem.
Remarkably. Cook never did it in his career. How's that for a stat?
So let's think through this next threat like a Bozza. What threat can the PM use to persuade members of the National Convention (many, I suspect smarting from their new status as ex-Councillors; many senior Romford Conservatives have just lost quite a lot of pay as they've gone down on Cabinet members to opposition backbenchers) to do the wrong thing?
Whatever it is, it's what he'll try.
These batteries will lose 0.02-0.05% or so of their capacity every cycle. (And they won't be cycled every day.)
In all probability you'll notice somewhat less charge, but you won't be replacing the whole battery pack.
Vettel seemed to have a similar issue, suggesting that however much of a Donkey Sir Lancelot is, there may have been a handling issue.
The 22 don't have to change their rules, but as with May, a "quiet word" might be had suggesting they are so minded. Whisky and pearl-handled revolver time.
Boris is still in deep poo. He can run, but ultimately he can't hide from the voters.
That's the joke.
It is interesting though the last two Tory leaders have been threatened with same mechanism? Has it raised its self into view much in the past? Why not used on Sir John and Lady Thatcher? So what’s that mean - the Tories have changed and more factionally selfish these days?
Cowshit, now...
But, changing topic, is this roughly right?
https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds
If it is it seems that England abolished the slave trade twice, the first time in 1070 odd, and there was therefore a, what, 600 year gap in which no English person owned anybody else? Which makes this claim that the triangular trade had some sort of hereditary, life's rich tapestry, that’s the way we've always done it, justification even sillier than it looks.
1) The Normans had villeinage, which was a distinction without a difference where slavery was concerned. The only theoretical distinction - and it was theoretical not real - was that villeins were tied to particular manors, rather than discrete property to be bought and sold separately. In practice, that could still happen.
2) Although the slave trade was driven underground, it wasn't eliminated. There was no equivalent to the efforts of the West Africa Squadron of the Royal Navy.
Edit - and it is certainly not true that there were no slaves in England for 600 years. There were not many of them defined as slaves, although they did exist, but that's because as noted above they were defined as villeins instead.
Big G saying how wonderful this threat from NCC is to Boris, but what do they want? When constituency chairmen surface on media they want every tax slashed regardless, regardless of its impact in economic cycle. They want green taxes gone. These constituency chairpersons sound like RefUK!
The Tories need to be out 10 years to sort themselves out, and only allowed back in when fiscally conservative again, back to centre right, and back on the green and woke agenda.
But you know there will be Boris fans whingeing, he only lost general election because of division from rebels hollowing him out from within, just like Corbynite say today, he was brilliant and right if not destroyed from within.
Compare the (admittedly short-lived) "apprenticeship" system in the Windies after the formal abolition of slavery.
Then serfdom slowly died out in the century after the Black Death when it was no longer profitable because peasants kept leaving their land.
Hint: they’re the orange bits
http://whiterose.saddleworth.net/whitered.htm
What about Coniston? Definitely Lancashire.
Incidentally there's something wrong with my SkyQ box. It's just shown Ollie Pope hitting a four.
But I can point you to death camps and Jew deportations
The traditional view is it died with the Black Death. That was proved to be wrong in the 1960s when an examination of the records of the palatinate of Durham revealed it was more tightly controlled, due to the shortage of labour making villeins a more valuable resource.
But I am astonished to find that there is a record of Elizabeth I paying a certain Sir Henry Lee (presumably this one) very handsomely indeed to manumit 300 villeins as late as 1575.
I had no idea it lasted so deep into the Tudor era. I assumed the parish system of poor relief was the last vestige of it. But apparently not.
Also, remember that there's the ranked choice voting of the top four candidates.
As I mentioned a little earlier on, those up in arms on the right should also pause to consider why they haven't criticised Charles in thirty years of his strictures on how our entire physical built environment should look, and what we should all live in ; not a few of which have actually turned out to be ahead of the game, as for his similar hobby-horses on the environment and organic farming, from all the way back in the 1980s, too.
Might check out Pantalica necropolis tomorrow
EDIT and Saddleworth is Yorkshire.
Variants are: the Arabs were at it too, and it was black Africans who delivered the black Africans to the slave ships.
Taormina is beautiful (“so pretty it hurts” - Ernest Hemingway) but HORRIBLY touristy. Likewise Cefalu and, to a lesser extent, Palermo
However in Cefalu you can break into Aleister Crowley’s “Abbey of Thelema” and see where he fatally poisoned a friend with cat’s blood and then got a goat to rape his wife. It’s actually an old run down bungalow and when I broke in - literally, broke in, I had to climb in through a window - you could still see Crowley’s hideous paintings on the wall
I believe you can’t do that any more and the Abbey of Thelema is off limits and sold for millions. Still, I did it and I can sell you photos of me there if that helps
To come back to your original point, can I ask what happened to the bodies of the murdered Jews? Were they rendered down, the fat used for soap, the hair used to make blankets, and the teeth taken to make dentures?
If not I suggest the Holocaust still rather stands out.