Good. About time to blow the bloody doors off. Hopefully the Bill invokes Article 16 so its legal.
She's going to drive us over a cliff edge?
I hope so.
This is risky for the Tories. In 2020, if the EU responded harshly, and the economic situation worsened then I think the Tories could have gotten away with it by blaming the EU and banging a red, white and blue drum. I think now the electorate are much less forgiving of Boris's, and by extension the Government's, pissing around. If they take action that can be pointed to as worsening the economic situation then they are going to be fucked harder and angrier than a step-Turkish conscript looking to dodge the draft. On PornHub.
The EU are an empty suit bluffing, they aren't going to erect a hard border in Ireland and neither are we, so Invoke A16, unilaterally fix the problems, and then the issue is resolved and over. There'll be no need or requirement for any more actions to "preserve the Good Friday Agreement" then because it will have been preserved as there'll be no hard border anywhere.
But if you wanted co-ordinated cynical politics if it were me I'd have Truss push her hard bill for Northern Ireland, and in a completely unrelated move have Sunak suspend fuel duty for the duration of the war until fuel prices come down, ending the worst of inflation and thus meaning that the triple lock doesn't raise pensions by too much etc
See how much voters are bothered by the EU's threats when fuel is £1.20 a litre.
It's not so much the hard border but, as others have mentioned, it's the 'rebalancing measures' the EU might take. Maybe the EU impose a hard border, maybe they don't but voters won't care if there's nothing in the shops but lamb and potatoes.
"NASA Is Finally Ready to ‘Science’ UFOs The world’s top space agency has decided to lean into the discussion."
Hmm
Final para:
"The modern UAP story has been populated by quite an ensemble: lawmakers, defense officials, UFO activists, the Blink-182 rock star Tom DeLonge. Now the cast includes the world’s top space agency and its arsenal of sophisticated telescopes and space probes. NASA officials said they would make all of their findings available for anyone to see. No secrets! But that doesn’t mean that NASA will be able to control the public narrative surrounding this effort, or any discoveries. Once NASA starts talking about UFOs—well, like it or not, it’s a whole different conversation."
Can't we have another photo of a cup of coffee instead of this shit.
I'm also right about LAB LEAK
Remember when WHO reported that a "lab leak" was extremely unlikely? Remember when we were all banned from talking about it on social media for a year, because it is a "racist conspiracy theory"?
"Over two years after the coronavirus was first detected in China, the World Health Organization recommended in its strongest terms yet that a deeper investigation is required into whether a lab accident may be to blame"
The more I think about it, it feels to me like the tories are in existential crisis. They could well be on the cusp of a "collapse of the liberal party" wipeout in the next general election. It is early 2019 revisited. Johnson's reinvention of the conservative party looks at the moment like it has completely failed. So, someone has to repeat what Johnson did in 2019, but with the first priority being to fix market credibility. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Time is short.
Maybe Penny can reinvent them as the caring but discliplined party. Attractive matron.
The main alternative, and favourite for the moment, is Hunt - comparatively a focus on pure professionalism. I'm not sure how far that would go, or how long it would necessarily last, though.
Risk with Hunt is not only do the Tories fail to win back any voters lost to Labour or the LDs but they also leak Leavers back to RefUK and end up on the 20 to 25% they were on before May resigned and even worse than the 33% they are on now
Farage would likely return to lead RefUK if Hunt replaced Boris as Tory leader and PM
No he wouldn't. Why are you worrying about Leavers? We've left!
Hunt/Mordaunt/Wallace need to calm the Blue wall without frightening the RedWall. It's a tough balance to achieve, but at present Johnson has pissed off both sets of voters.
Hunt would likely try and return to May's Brexit Deal again, that would inevitably see some Tory Leavers leak to Farage and RefUK
No he wouldn't.
You primarily need to steady the nerves of Surrey voters and their ilk. They would prefer a softer redial of Brexit. Hunt does that for you.
Your RedWall are currently concerned with the economy. You sell the Single Market to them as a means of improving the economy whilst retaining their newly minted sovereignty. You say selected Europeans can then come in to do the jobs they don't want to do, but explain it wouldn't be the free for all that Labour would allow (even if that is a white lie). Hunt could do that for you.
You tell Farage and the ERG to **** off! Nobody likes them any more.
Personally I'd like to see the back of the Conservatives for a decade. The longer Johnson remains, the more likely I suspect that becomes a reality.
Reopen free movement which return to the single market requires and the redwall is lost to the Tories for good.
Farage also would be even more certain to return than with a return to May's Deal
Farage and the Tories would split what was left of the Tory vote after Johnson between them. Canada's Conservatives in 1993 would beckon.
The Tories are never going to get less than about 165 seats (as they won in 1997 and 2001). The Canadian Conservatives were reduced to 2 seats in 1993. Not much of a comparison.
If Farage's party overtook them, like Reform overtook the Canadian Tories in 1993 they would.
See also the Les Republicains collapse in France as it has lost support to Le Pen and Zemmour as well as Macron
No party led by Farage is ever going to overtake either the Tories or Labour - and probably not even the Lib Dems - in a GE. The best they can do is steal votes from them but even they they won't translate into seats. The dynamic simply isn't there.
If the Tories went for a policy to rejoin the EU or return to the single market and full free movement they might.
Before May went in Spring 2019 the Brexit Party were near neck and neck with the Tories in some polls. Until Johnson was elected Tory leader the Brexit Party even overtook the Tories in a few polls.
At the 2015 General Election UKIP got more votes than the LDs if not more seats
Can I just gently say to you that you seem to live a life that fails to recognise change, have a tendency to put labels on people, which frankly is silly as everyone is different, and cannot see how quickly the political scene is changing
You can be blind to the consequences and firm your opinions by looking backwards, but change requires a mindset to accept change, move on to adopt it as well as improving it.
Your way ends exactly as the dinosaurs who could not change, extinction
Any organisation which ignores its core customers and supporters also faces extinction
You really are not getting it
Core supporters do not into government make
I am a conservative that you insult and dismiss because I, along with many others even on here, do not accept Boris should lead the party and with the 148 will move heaven and earth to change the leadership and see the conservative party on a more collegiate and electable path
You have the 'Corbyn mindset' and see where that has got him, purity (except voting Plaid) comes at a price
Yes you need swing voters to get into government but ignore your core vote and you won't have any party left.
You won't even be the main opposition party let alone the government, see the Progressive Conservatives in Canada, Les Republicains and the Socialist Party in France, PASOK in Greece and Forza Italia in Italy and Fianna Fail in Ireland and of course Scottish Labour which all have suffered that fate, even if the latter 2 have seen a minor revival
The more I think about it, it feels to me like the tories are in existential crisis. They could well be on the cusp of a "collapse of the liberal party" wipeout in the next general election. It is early 2019 revisited. Johnson's reinvention of the conservative party looks at the moment like it has completely failed. So, someone has to repeat what Johnson did in 2019, but with the first priority being to fix market credibility. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Time is short.
Maybe Penny can reinvent them as the caring but discliplined party. Attractive matron.
The main alternative, and favourite for the moment, is Hunt - comparatively a focus on pure professionalism. I'm not sure how far that would go, or how long it would necessarily last, though.
Risk with Hunt is not only do the Tories fail to win back any voters lost to Labour or the LDs but they also leak Leavers back to RefUK and end up on the 20 to 25% they were on before May resigned and even worse than the 33% they are on now
Farage would likely return to lead RefUK if Hunt replaced Boris as Tory leader and PM
No he wouldn't. Why are you worrying about Leavers? We've left!
Hunt/Mordaunt/Wallace need to calm the Blue wall without frightening the RedWall. It's a tough balance to achieve, but at present Johnson has pissed off both sets of voters.
Hunt would likely try and return to May's Brexit Deal again, that would inevitably see some Tory Leavers leak to Farage and RefUK
No he wouldn't.
You primarily need to steady the nerves of Surrey voters and their ilk. They would prefer a softer redial of Brexit. Hunt does that for you.
Your RedWall are currently concerned with the economy. You sell the Single Market to them as a means of improving the economy whilst retaining their newly minted sovereignty. You say selected Europeans can then come in to do the jobs they don't want to do, but explain it wouldn't be the free for all that Labour would allow (even if that is a white lie). Hunt could do that for you.
You tell Farage and the ERG to **** off! Nobody likes them any more.
Personally I'd like to see the back of the Conservatives for a decade. The longer Johnson remains, the more likely I suspect that becomes a reality.
Reopen free movement which return to the single market requires and the redwall is lost to the Tories for good.
Farage also would be even more certain to return than with a return to May's Deal
Farage and the Tories would split what was left of the Tory vote after Johnson between them. Canada's Conservatives in 1993 would beckon.
The Tories are never going to get less than about 165 seats (as they won in 1997 and 2001). The Canadian Conservatives were reduced to 2 seats in 1993. Not much of a comparison.
If Farage's party overtook them, like Reform overtook the Canadian Tories in 1993 they would.
See also the Les Republicains collapse in France as it has lost support to Le Pen and Zemmour as well as Macron
No party led by Farage is ever going to overtake either the Tories or Labour - and probably not even the Lib Dems - in a GE. The best they can do is steal votes from them but even they they won't translate into seats. The dynamic simply isn't there.
If the Tories went for a policy to rejoin the EU or return to the single market and full free movement they might.
Before May went in Spring 2019 the Brexit Party were near neck and neck with the Tories in some polls. Until Johnson was elected Tory leader the Brexit Party even overtook the Tories in a few polls.
At the 2015 General Election UKIP got more votes than the LDs if not more seats
Can I just gently say to you that you seem to live a life that fails to recognise change, have a tendency to put labels on people, which frankly is silly as everyone is different, and cannot see how quickly the political scene is changing
You can be blind to the consequences and firm your opinions by looking backwards, but change requires a mindset to accept change, move on to adopt it as well as improving it.
Your way ends exactly as the dinosaurs who could not change, extinction
Any organisation which ignores its core customers and supporters also faces extinction
Which is precisely why the Tories stand on the brink of losing the blue wall. Their long term core customers.
Blue wall seats are Tory Remain seats, even in 2016 most Tory seats voted Leave not Remain
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
The more I think about it, it feels to me like the tories are in existential crisis. They could well be on the cusp of a "collapse of the liberal party" wipeout in the next general election. It is early 2019 revisited. Johnson's reinvention of the conservative party looks at the moment like it has completely failed. So, someone has to repeat what Johnson did in 2019, but with the first priority being to fix market credibility. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Time is short.
Maybe Penny can reinvent them as the caring but discliplined party. Attractive matron.
The main alternative, and favourite for the moment, is Hunt - comparatively a focus on pure professionalism. I'm not sure how far that would go, or how long it would necessarily last, though.
Risk with Hunt is not only do the Tories fail to win back any voters lost to Labour or the LDs but they also leak Leavers back to RefUK and end up on the 20 to 25% they were on before May resigned and even worse than the 33% they are on now
Farage would likely return to lead RefUK if Hunt replaced Boris as Tory leader and PM
No he wouldn't. Why are you worrying about Leavers? We've left!
Hunt/Mordaunt/Wallace need to calm the Blue wall without frightening the RedWall. It's a tough balance to achieve, but at present Johnson has pissed off both sets of voters.
Hunt would likely try and return to May's Brexit Deal again, that would inevitably see some Tory Leavers leak to Farage and RefUK
No he wouldn't.
You primarily need to steady the nerves of Surrey voters and their ilk. They would prefer a softer redial of Brexit. Hunt does that for you.
Your RedWall are currently concerned with the economy. You sell the Single Market to them as a means of improving the economy whilst retaining their newly minted sovereignty. You say selected Europeans can then come in to do the jobs they don't want to do, but explain it wouldn't be the free for all that Labour would allow (even if that is a white lie). Hunt could do that for you.
You tell Farage and the ERG to **** off! Nobody likes them any more.
Personally I'd like to see the back of the Conservatives for a decade. The longer Johnson remains, the more likely I suspect that becomes a reality.
Reopen free movement which return to the single market requires and the redwall is lost to the Tories for good.
Farage also would be even more certain to return than with a return to May's Deal
Farage and the Tories would split what was left of the Tory vote after Johnson between them. Canada's Conservatives in 1993 would beckon.
The Tories are never going to get less than about 165 seats (as they won in 1997 and 2001). The Canadian Conservatives were reduced to 2 seats in 1993. Not much of a comparison.
If Farage's party overtook them, like Reform overtook the Canadian Tories in 1993 they would.
See also the Les Republicains collapse in France as it has lost support to Le Pen and Zemmour as well as Macron
No party led by Farage is ever going to overtake either the Tories or Labour - and probably not even the Lib Dems - in a GE. The best they can do is steal votes from them but even they they won't translate into seats. The dynamic simply isn't there.
If the Tories went for a policy to rejoin the EU or return to the single market and full free movement they might.
Before May went in Spring 2019 the Brexit Party were near neck and neck with the Tories in some polls. Until Johnson was elected Tory leader the Brexit Party even overtook the Tories in a few polls.
At the 2015 General Election UKIP got more votes than the LDs if not more seats
Can I just gently say to you that you seem to live a life that fails to recognise change, have a tendency to put labels on people, which frankly is silly as everyone is different, and cannot see how quickly the political scene is changing
You can be blind to the consequences and firm your opinions by looking backwards, but change requires a mindset to accept change, move on to adopt it as well as improving it.
Your way ends exactly as the dinosaurs who could not change, extinction
Any organisation which ignores its core customers and supporters also faces extinction
Which is precisely why the Tories stand on the brink of losing the blue wall. Their long term core customers.
Blue wall seats are Tory Remain seats, even in 2016 most Tory seats voted Leave not Remain
They're Remain seats. Been telling you for a year the rural vote loathes Johnson.
The more I think about it, it feels to me like the tories are in existential crisis. They could well be on the cusp of a "collapse of the liberal party" wipeout in the next general election. It is early 2019 revisited. Johnson's reinvention of the conservative party looks at the moment like it has completely failed. So, someone has to repeat what Johnson did in 2019, but with the first priority being to fix market credibility. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Time is short.
Maybe Penny can reinvent them as the caring but discliplined party. Attractive matron.
The main alternative, and favourite for the moment, is Hunt - comparatively a focus on pure professionalism. I'm not sure how far that would go, or how long it would necessarily last, though.
Risk with Hunt is not only do the Tories fail to win back any voters lost to Labour or the LDs but they also leak Leavers back to RefUK and end up on the 20 to 25% they were on before May resigned and even worse than the 33% they are on now
Farage would likely return to lead RefUK if Hunt replaced Boris as Tory leader and PM
Farage is as busted a flush as Boris.
Farage is even far more busted than Boris and that is saying something
Farage and RefUK, whoever they are, are only in the mind of far right obsessives
If Hunt became PM and as is likely shifted back to May's Deal, Farage would return to lead RefUK within 5 minutes
Looks like Cheese n Crackers is now running the show. It must be that Boris senses that she is the most likely to resign from the Cabinet and do a Geoffrey. Nervous times for Boris.
These politicians on a journey are a dangerous bunch. Truss an ex-Lib Dem and previous remainer, Lord Frost a grey bureaucrat with mainstream views, both on a trajectory rightwards and it seems like once people get the momentum there is a danger they keep going. Whereas the more stable right or leftwingers are a little less likely to go bonkers.
That said Redwood seems also to have gone on a journey recently, towards Schumacher-esque autarchy.
The simpler explanation is that Truss and Frost are preparing for a leadership election.
Frost? Surely that would mean him resigning his peerage. And once resigned, he surely wouldn't get it back after a leadership challenge. Although I suppose Lord Home (of the Hirsel) did, back in the 60's.
As did Lord Hailsham. The difference is that they were both hereditary peers who disclaimed, and returned to the House of Lords as life peers, after a spell in the Commons. Don't think anyone has resigned a life peerage, and then been awarded another later on.
The more I think about it, it feels to me like the tories are in existential crisis. They could well be on the cusp of a "collapse of the liberal party" wipeout in the next general election. It is early 2019 revisited. Johnson's reinvention of the conservative party looks at the moment like it has completely failed. So, someone has to repeat what Johnson did in 2019, but with the first priority being to fix market credibility. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Time is short.
Maybe Penny can reinvent them as the caring but discliplined party. Attractive matron.
The main alternative, and favourite for the moment, is Hunt - comparatively a focus on pure professionalism. I'm not sure how far that would go, or how long it would necessarily last, though.
Risk with Hunt is not only do the Tories fail to win back any voters lost to Labour or the LDs but they also leak Leavers back to RefUK and end up on the 20 to 25% they were on before May resigned and even worse than the 33% they are on now
Farage would likely return to lead RefUK if Hunt replaced Boris as Tory leader and PM
No he wouldn't. Why are you worrying about Leavers? We've left!
Hunt/Mordaunt/Wallace need to calm the Blue wall without frightening the RedWall. It's a tough balance to achieve, but at present Johnson has pissed off both sets of voters.
Hunt would likely try and return to May's Brexit Deal again, that would inevitably see some Tory Leavers leak to Farage and RefUK
No he wouldn't.
You primarily need to steady the nerves of Surrey voters and their ilk. They would prefer a softer redial of Brexit. Hunt does that for you.
Your RedWall are currently concerned with the economy. You sell the Single Market to them as a means of improving the economy whilst retaining their newly minted sovereignty. You say selected Europeans can then come in to do the jobs they don't want to do, but explain it wouldn't be the free for all that Labour would allow (even if that is a white lie). Hunt could do that for you.
You tell Farage and the ERG to **** off! Nobody likes them any more.
Personally I'd like to see the back of the Conservatives for a decade. The longer Johnson remains, the more likely I suspect that becomes a reality.
Reopen free movement which return to the single market requires and the redwall is lost to the Tories for good.
Farage also would be even more certain to return than with a return to May's Deal
Farage and the Tories would split what was left of the Tory vote after Johnson between them. Canada's Conservatives in 1993 would beckon.
The Tories are never going to get less than about 165 seats (as they won in 1997 and 2001). The Canadian Conservatives were reduced to 2 seats in 1993. Not much of a comparison.
If Farage's party overtook them, like Reform overtook the Canadian Tories in 1993 they would.
See also the Les Republicains collapse in France as it has lost support to Le Pen and Zemmour as well as Macron
No party led by Farage is ever going to overtake either the Tories or Labour - and probably not even the Lib Dems - in a GE. The best they can do is steal votes from them but even they they won't translate into seats. The dynamic simply isn't there.
If the Tories went for a policy to rejoin the EU or return to the single market and full free movement they might.
Before May went in Spring 2019 the Brexit Party were near neck and neck with the Tories in some polls. Until Johnson was elected Tory leader the Brexit Party even overtook the Tories in a few polls.
At the 2015 General Election UKIP got more votes than the LDs if not more seats
Can I just gently say to you that you seem to live a life that fails to recognise change, have a tendency to put labels on people, which frankly is silly as everyone is different, and cannot see how quickly the political scene is changing
You can be blind to the consequences and firm your opinions by looking backwards, but change requires a mindset to accept change, move on to adopt it as well as improving it.
Your way ends exactly as the dinosaurs who could not change, extinction
Any organisation which ignores its core customers and supporters also faces extinction
Which is precisely why the Tories stand on the brink of losing the blue wall. Their long term core customers.
Blue wall seats are Tory Remain seats, even in 2016 most Tory seats voted Leave not Remain
I for one cannot believe that, after all this brouhaha, it turns out that a remarkably virulent novel bat coronavirus with strange evolutions at the Furin Cleavage Site emerged in the same Chinese city that hosts the only laboratory in the world which is investigating novel bat coronaviruses and trying to tweak them at the Furin Cleavage Site and testing them on humanised mice in order to make them more virulent - and now it turns out these things are probably connected?? What?
I mean, who the FUCK could've predicted that? No wonder the World Health Organisation was completely bewildered by it all, for two and a half years
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Good. About time to blow the bloody doors off. Hopefully the Bill invokes Article 16 so its legal.
She's going to drive us over a cliff edge?
I hope so.
This is risky for the Tories. In 2020, if the EU responded harshly, and the economic situation worsened then I think the Tories could have gotten away with it by blaming the EU and banging a red, white and blue drum. I think now the electorate are much less forgiving of Boris's, and by extension the Government's, pissing around. If they take action that can be pointed to as worsening the economic situation then they are going to be fucked harder and angrier than a step-Turkish conscript looking to dodge the draft. On PornHub.
The EU are an empty suit bluffing, they aren't going to erect a hard border in Ireland and neither are we, so Invoke A16, unilaterally fix the problems, and then the issue is resolved and over. There'll be no need or requirement for any more actions to "preserve the Good Friday Agreement" then because it will have been preserved as there'll be no hard border anywhere.
But if you wanted co-ordinated cynical politics if it were me I'd have Truss push her hard bill for Northern Ireland, and in a completely unrelated move have Sunak suspend fuel duty for the duration of the war until fuel prices come down, ending the worst of inflation and thus meaning that the triple lock doesn't raise pensions by too much etc
See how much voters are bothered by the EU's threats when fuel is £1.20 a litre.
It's not so much the hard border but, as others have mentioned, it's the 'rebalancing measures' the EU might take. Maybe the EU impose a hard border, maybe they don't but voters won't care if there's nothing in the shops but lamb and potatoes.
Even if the EU take 'rebalancing measures' we'll still have food in the shops because trade will still happen either way, even if we were in the hardest of no deal Brexits we would still have food in the shops. Its not as if EU goods are unavailable in the rest of the wold.
And if peace in NI is preserved by British actions, then what purpose would rebalancing measures serve? Then it boils down to what it always was, a trade dispute, and absolutely nothing to do with the Good Friday Agreement.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
That c*nt of an Interior Minister - Darmanin? - needs to resign. Liverpool should pursue him relentlessly. He was lying his stupid French tits off even a week later when it was obvious he was lying to everyone, including him.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
How is it going round the world? Is it really over out there like it is here, if not why not?
When’s the next time us 20 year olds will get vaccine?
Could a bad variant come back to UK meaning some restrictions to save lives and protect the NHS?
Omicron has a few sub-variants which are more transmissible/immune-evading than even BA.2
The BA.4 and BA.5 sub-variants are the ones winning out the evolutionary race. They've caused a ramp up in South Africa first and in the US and we're just on the start of the BA.4/5 rise here.
The SA experience was that the rise in BA.4/5 did cause a bit of a rise in hospitalisations, but not as bad as the earlier Omicron wave. It looks like there is some immunity preservation between different Omicron sub-variants (and hybrid immunity - vaccine breakthrough infection-immunity is better still and broader). This implies that there shouldn't be as much of an increase here (hospital-wise, anyway).
It does seem that, for the first time, further mutations are occurring based off one particular variant (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, and Omicron were all antigenically distinct; none grew out of any of the others). This time, the mutations are all apparently occurring off of the Omicron stem. This is good news (as much as variant mutation can be good news) because very little infection-acquired immunity was retained from non-Omicron covid infections to protect against Omicron, and we could realistically assume that Omicron-acquired infection would be similarly limited at best against other putative non-Omicron-descended variants.
As the majority of immunity in the UK today amongst the younger ages (which were the engine room for the Delta surge) is Omicron-acquired immunity, it would have been bad news had this (shift to everything coming off the Omicron branch) not been the case. As it is, we should be in a pretty good place.
In addition, Moderna have managed to come up with an Omicron-specific booster that does provide a significant increase in protection (as well as widening it), so if we're looking at future covid all being Omicron-covid, that's good.
Summary: - New Omicron mini-wave from BA.4/5 just beginning in UK. Expectation is that it will be less than BA.2 or Omicron in terms of impact. - Omicron-descended variants look to be the future (my personal non-expert opinion), which would be good for both infection-acquired immunity retention (especially against severe disease) and for Omicron-tailored vaccines - Unlikely to see more doses for the younger echelons. The uptick at the moment in hospitalisations (which is from a low base) is amongst the older - If you're eligible for a second booster and you haven't had one, now is a very good time to get one - Cannot see restrictions being required or applied. Pharmaceutical Interventions (paxlovid, vaccines) far better than NPIs and less disruptive and less crude - Any focus we should do is on repairing the healthcare service from the impact to date, especially on the social care side, because that's the logjam in getting things through.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Yet again, Pagel and friends have popped up because Covid positive tests have risen in the past few days. When will people grasp that this thing is with us forever and will rise and fall forever, a la influenza? Get a grip FFS.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
But that's surely just a function of the extremely high profile nature of the match, and its intense desirability. A Champion's League Final, in Paris, between two of the most storied and talented teams on the planet, Real Madrid and Liverpool. Spain v England. And this after two years of everyone being starved of spectator sport, as well
Tickets were mega expensive and thus highly enticing to potential fakers
How is it going round the world? Is it really over out there like it is here, if not why not?
When’s the next time us 20 year olds will get vaccine?
Could a bad variant come back to UK meaning some restrictions to save lives and protect the NHS?
Omicron has a few sub-variants which are more transmissible/immune-evading than even BA.2
The BA.4 and BA.5 sub-variants are the ones winning out the evolutionary race. They've caused a ramp up in South Africa first and in the US and we're just on the start of the BA.4/5 rise here.
The SA experience was that the rise in BA.4/5 did cause a bit of a rise in hospitalisations, but not as bad as the earlier Omicron wave. It looks like there is some immunity preservation between different Omicron sub-variants (and hybrid immunity - vaccine breakthrough infection-immunity is better still and broader). This implies that there shouldn't be as much of an increase here (hospital-wise, anyway).
It does seem that, for the first time, further mutations are occurring based off one particular variant (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, and Omicron were all antigenically distinct; none grew out of any of the others). This time, the mutations are all apparently occurring off of the Omicron stem. This is good news (as much as variant mutation can be good news) because very little infection-acquired immunity was retained from non-Omicron covid infections to protect against Omicron, and we could realistically assume that Omicron-acquired infection would be similarly limited at best against other putative non-Omicron-descended variants.
As the majority of immunity in the UK today amongst the younger ages (which were the engine room for the Delta surge) is Omicron-acquired immunity, it would have been bad news had this (shift to everything coming off the Omicron branch) not been the case. As it is, we should be in a pretty good place.
In addition, Moderna have managed to come up with an Omicron-specific booster that does provide a significant increase in protection (as well as widening it), so if we're looking at future covid all being Omicron-covid, that's good.
Summary: - New Omicron mini-wave from BA.4/5 just beginning in UK. Expectation is that it will be less than BA.2 or Omicron in terms of impact. - Omicron-descended variants look to be the future (my personal non-expert opinion), which would be good for both infection-acquired immunity retention (especially against severe disease) and for Omicron-tailored vaccines - Unlikely to see more doses for the younger echelons. The uptick at the moment in hospitalisations (which is from a low base) is amongst the older - If you're eligible for a second booster and you haven't had one, now is a very good time to get one - Cannot see restrictions being required or applied. Pharmaceutical Interventions (paxlovid, vaccines) far better than NPIs and less disruptive and less crude - Any focus we should do is on repairing the healthcare service from the impact to date, especially on the social care side, because that's the logjam in getting things through.
How is it going round the world? Is it really over out there like it is here, if not why not?
When’s the next time us 20 year olds will get vaccine?
Could a bad variant come back to UK meaning some restrictions to save lives and protect the NHS?
Omicron has a few sub-variants which are more transmissible/immune-evading than even BA.2
The BA.4 and BA.5 sub-variants are the ones winning out the evolutionary race. They've caused a ramp up in South Africa first and in the US and we're just on the start of the BA.4/5 rise here.
The SA experience was that the rise in BA.4/5 did cause a bit of a rise in hospitalisations, but not as bad as the earlier Omicron wave. It looks like there is some immunity preservation between different Omicron sub-variants (and hybrid immunity - vaccine breakthrough infection-immunity is better still and broader). This implies that there shouldn't be as much of an increase here (hospital-wise, anyway).
It does seem that, for the first time, further mutations are occurring based off one particular variant (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, and Omicron were all antigenically distinct; none grew out of any of the others). This time, the mutations are all apparently occurring off of the Omicron stem. This is good news (as much as variant mutation can be good news) because very little infection-acquired immunity was retained from non-Omicron covid infections to protect against Omicron, and we could realistically assume that Omicron-acquired infection would be similarly limited at best against other putative non-Omicron-descended variants.
As the majority of immunity in the UK today amongst the younger ages (which were the engine room for the Delta surge) is Omicron-acquired immunity, it would have been bad news had this (shift to everything coming off the Omicron branch) not been the case. As it is, we should be in a pretty good place.
In addition, Moderna have managed to come up with an Omicron-specific booster that does provide a significant increase in protection (as well as widening it), so if we're looking at future covid all being Omicron-covid, that's good.
Summary: - New Omicron mini-wave from BA.4/5 just beginning in UK. Expectation is that it will be less than BA.2 or Omicron in terms of impact. - Omicron-descended variants look to be the future (my personal non-expert opinion), which would be good for both infection-acquired immunity retention (especially against severe disease) and for Omicron-tailored vaccines - Unlikely to see more doses for the younger echelons. The uptick at the moment in hospitalisations (which is from a low base) is amongst the older - If you're eligible for a second booster and you haven't had one, now is a very good time to get one - Cannot see restrictions being required or applied. Pharmaceutical Interventions (paxlovid, vaccines) far better than NPIs and less disruptive and less crude - Any focus we should do is on repairing the healthcare service from the impact to date, especially on the social care side, because that's the logjam in getting things through.
Good post that might help to quell the usual hysteria on here.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
That c*nt of an Interior Minister - Darmanin? - needs to resign. Liverpool should pursue him relentlessly. He was lying his stupid French tits off even a week later when it was obvious he was lying to everyone, including him.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
Indeed. Several Premier League grounds have capacities of 60k+ and sell out weekly. Fake tickets are a non-issue.
Because Man City v Chelsea or Liverpool v Man U, no matter how exciting, cannot begin to compare to a UCL final between Liverpool and Real Madrid in Paris
You get the all-English matches twice a season, guaranteed, in the EPL
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
And that's if we take him at his word that the 2,549 were all "fake". Given how wrong he's been before now, I see no reason to believe even that is honest now.
There've been far too many reports of people getting told their tickets were "fake" when they'd been acquired through legitimate venues.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
But that's surely just a function of the extremely high profile nature of the match, and its intense desirability. A Champion's League Final, in Paris, between two of the most storied and talented teams on the planet, Real Madrid and Liverpool. Spain v England. And this after two years of everyone being starved of spectator sport, as well
Tickets were mega expensive and thus highly enticing to potential fakers
Banknotes with face values of a tiny fraction of the value of football tickets have orders of magnitude better anti-forgery protection.
Surprisingly (not), the criminals have moved in to exploit this.
An electronic ticketing system that would control the secondary market, stamp out fakes and allow easy verification of tickets (think outer cordon at big games) is the way to go.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
I thought the point was that it now *isn't* a lot of fake tickets?
Is anyone following this, and have the French Govt explained yet why tear gas affected blind people carrying their walking sticks in a queue of wheelchair users at a disabled gate?
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
Indeed. Several Premier League grounds have capacities of 60k+ and sell out weekly. Fake tickets are a non-issue.
Because Man City v Chelsea or Liverpool v Man U, no matter how exciting, cannot begin to compare to a UCL final between Liverpool and Real Madrid in Paris
You get the all-English matches twice a season, guaranteed, in the EPL
Since when have major finals of any kind been afflicted by fake tickets on this scale? (2k+ is a lot!)
"NASA Is Finally Ready to ‘Science’ UFOs The world’s top space agency has decided to lean into the discussion."
Hmm
Final para:
"The modern UAP story has been populated by quite an ensemble: lawmakers, defense officials, UFO activists, the Blink-182 rock star Tom DeLonge. Now the cast includes the world’s top space agency and its arsenal of sophisticated telescopes and space probes. NASA officials said they would make all of their findings available for anyone to see. No secrets! But that doesn’t mean that NASA will be able to control the public narrative surrounding this effort, or any discoveries. Once NASA starts talking about UFOs—well, like it or not, it’s a whole different conversation."
Can't we have another photo of a cup of coffee instead of this shit.
I'm also right about LAB LEAK
Remember when WHO reported that a "lab leak" was extremely unlikely? Remember when we were all banned from talking about it on social media for a year, because it is a "racist conspiracy theory"?
"Over two years after the coronavirus was first detected in China, the World Health Organization recommended in its strongest terms yet that a deeper investigation is required into whether a lab accident may be to blame"
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
I thought the point was that it now *isn't* a lot of fake tickets?
Is anyone following this, and have the French Govt explained yet why tear gas affected blind people carrying their walking sticks in a queue of wheelchair users at a disabled gate?
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
But that's surely just a function of the extremely high profile nature of the match, and its intense desirability. A Champion's League Final, in Paris, between two of the most storied and talented teams on the planet, Real Madrid and Liverpool. Spain v England. And this after two years of everyone being starved of spectator sport, as well
Tickets were mega expensive and thus highly enticing to potential fakers
Banknotes with face values of a tiny fraction of the value of football tickets have orders of magnitude better anti-forgery protection.
Surprisingly (not), the criminals have moved in to exploit this.
An electronic ticketing system that would control the secondary market, stamp out fakes and allow easy verification of tickets (think outer cordon at big games) is the way to go.
The only organisation that has really got ticketing sorted properly, is the Glastonbury Festival.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
Indeed. Several Premier League grounds have capacities of 60k+ and sell out weekly. Fake tickets are a non-issue.
Because Man City v Chelsea or Liverpool v Man U, no matter how exciting, cannot begin to compare to a UCL final between Liverpool and Real Madrid in Paris
You get the all-English matches twice a season, guaranteed, in the EPL
Since when have major finals of any kind been afflicted by fake tickets on this scale? (2k+ is a lot!)
What credible source do we have that 2k+ were genuinely fake, rather than 'computer says no' "fake"?
Also do we have any information as to how many fake tickets turn up at a normal final? If it weren't for the atrocious security and handling we'd have never heard about the fake tickets.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
The more I think about it, it feels to me like the tories are in existential crisis. They could well be on the cusp of a "collapse of the liberal party" wipeout in the next general election. It is early 2019 revisited. Johnson's reinvention of the conservative party looks at the moment like it has completely failed. So, someone has to repeat what Johnson did in 2019, but with the first priority being to fix market credibility. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Time is short.
Maybe Penny can reinvent them as the caring but discliplined party. Attractive matron.
The main alternative, and favourite for the moment, is Hunt - comparatively a focus on pure professionalism. I'm not sure how far that would go, or how long it would necessarily last, though.
Risk with Hunt is not only do the Tories fail to win back any voters lost to Labour or the LDs but they also leak Leavers back to RefUK and end up on the 20 to 25% they were on before May resigned and even worse than the 33% they are on now
Farage would likely return to lead RefUK if Hunt replaced Boris as Tory leader and PM
No he wouldn't. Why are you worrying about Leavers? We've left!
Hunt/Mordaunt/Wallace need to calm the Blue wall without frightening the RedWall. It's a tough balance to achieve, but at present Johnson has pissed off both sets of voters.
Hunt would likely try and return to May's Brexit Deal again, that would inevitably see some Tory Leavers leak to Farage and RefUK
No he wouldn't.
You primarily need to steady the nerves of Surrey voters and their ilk. They would prefer a softer redial of Brexit. Hunt does that for you.
Your RedWall are currently concerned with the economy. You sell the Single Market to them as a means of improving the economy whilst retaining their newly minted sovereignty. You say selected Europeans can then come in to do the jobs they don't want to do, but explain it wouldn't be the free for all that Labour would allow (even if that is a white lie). Hunt could do that for you.
You tell Farage and the ERG to **** off! Nobody likes them any more.
Personally I'd like to see the back of the Conservatives for a decade. The longer Johnson remains, the more likely I suspect that becomes a reality.
Reopen free movement which return to the single market requires and the redwall is lost to the Tories for good.
Farage also would be even more certain to return than with a return to May's Deal
Farage and the Tories would split what was left of the Tory vote after Johnson between them. Canada's Conservatives in 1993 would beckon.
The Tories are never going to get less than about 165 seats (as they won in 1997 and 2001). The Canadian Conservatives were reduced to 2 seats in 1993. Not much of a comparison.
If Farage's party overtook them, like Reform overtook the Canadian Tories in 1993 they would.
See also the Les Republicains collapse in France as it has lost support to Le Pen and Zemmour as well as Macron
No party led by Farage is ever going to overtake either the Tories or Labour - and probably not even the Lib Dems - in a GE. The best they can do is steal votes from them but even they they won't translate into seats. The dynamic simply isn't there.
If the Tories went for a policy to rejoin the EU or return to the single market and full free movement they might.
Before May went in Spring 2019 the Brexit Party were near neck and neck with the Tories in some polls. Until Johnson was elected Tory leader the Brexit Party even overtook the Tories in a few polls.
At the 2015 General Election UKIP got more votes than the LDs if not more seats
That was all then. This is now. This is the mistake you always make. You never look at the small print.
It says:
"'Past performance does not guarantee future results' "
You ned a big sign stating this over your computer.
I'd originally dismissed Curtis' tweet as nonsense, but his subsequent retraction obviously written at lawyerpoint makes me think his now deleted tweet had more than a scintilla of truth to it.
Really? Would you expect YouGov to say/do nothing?
It's like ducking witches.
- If they float, they are witches. Burn them. - if they sink, they are innocent. Shame really.
Well Curtis clearly had pressure applied to make such a statement. The whiff of lawyers threatening to bankrupt him was very very easy to spot. Their remit is certainly not unalloyed truth.
If you don't want lawyers involved, its a good idea not to publicly libel your former employer.
If he could defend what he said, he'd not have backed down, the fact that he has so rapidly and unequivocally suggests he knows full well that he can't.
LOL - for a more generous take to YouGov, see @Malmesbury. It suggests he doesn't want to get into a ruinously expensive libel suit over it.
If he has libelled YouGov then what are they supposed to do? If they don't send the lawyers letter and get an apology then people say it must be true, they're not even challenging it. If they do, then you say lawyers are involved so it must be true.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't it seems.
He could well have left that lot up if we had the USA's more sensible views on freedom of speech. It's the fact the UK is the world capital of libel actions that meant he had to remove it.
Amber Heard might not be quite in agreement.
I followed the US election results closely. The view amongst US lawyers was that the voting machine manufacturers would have a tough time with libel against Giuliani and a couple of other bonkers Trumpers (Can't remember the mad woman's name) - it'd have been trivial in UK courts. Depp's team had to prove malice against Heard in court, it's a much much tougher job than in the UK courts. That's the legal fact - that the US jury came to conclude he'd gone over that very very high bar and the UK judge reckoned he'd failed to clear the much lower one is simply evidence that the US jury was wildly more pro-Depp than the UK judge (Or the UK judge much more pro Heard). The US bar for libel is way higher than the UK.
You don't think it is just that the US Jury actually got to hear a proper cross examination of the Heard claims whilst the UK judge dismissed many of the challenges without their being heard in court?
Not sure that can be described as being 'pro-Depp'.
There were lots of reasons why Depp won in the US, but lost in the UK, and I think it's lazy to just assume it was because of a biased judge.
To me, the most devastating evidence in the US case was from Amber Heard's own sister - a woman who also testified in London. In London, Depp's lawyer questioned her at length about her evidence that she had seen Depp grab Heard's hair, and throw things at her.
In the US, the sister gave the same testimony about Depp's behaviour... But we also heard something else: Heard's sister had behaved abusively towards her. The same witness, different cross examination, and instead of being a devastating witness for Depp (as she was in London), she was now a devastating one for Heard, basically ensuring that everyone knew that she was no wide eyed innocent.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
From the little I can glean from the data, this mini wave might already have peaked in Portugal though? In any case, we can't go through this crap every time there is a wave/miniwave of a bug that is now statistically less dangerous than flu. It's with us forever, we have treatments. Let's move on.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
Indeed. Several Premier League grounds have capacities of 60k+ and sell out weekly. Fake tickets are a non-issue.
Because Man City v Chelsea or Liverpool v Man U, no matter how exciting, cannot begin to compare to a UCL final between Liverpool and Real Madrid in Paris
You get the all-English matches twice a season, guaranteed, in the EPL
Since when have major finals of any kind been afflicted by fake tickets on this scale? (2k+ is a lot!)
What credible source do we have that 2k+ were genuinely fake, rather than 'computer says no' "fake"?
Also do we have any information as to how many fake tickets turn up at a normal final? If it weren't for the atrocious security and handling we'd have never heard about the fake tickets.
There is also the fact, IIRC, that some tickets were rejected as Fake if they didn't scan properly, but it seems there was an issue with the scanners and bluetooth, etc
How the F can the French know that there are now exactly 2,498 fakes when the Interior Minister was insistent there were ~450,000 about 3 days ago? Idiots. Why trust anything they say?
"NASA Is Finally Ready to ‘Science’ UFOs The world’s top space agency has decided to lean into the discussion."
Hmm
Final para:
"The modern UAP story has been populated by quite an ensemble: lawmakers, defense officials, UFO activists, the Blink-182 rock star Tom DeLonge. Now the cast includes the world’s top space agency and its arsenal of sophisticated telescopes and space probes. NASA officials said they would make all of their findings available for anyone to see. No secrets! But that doesn’t mean that NASA will be able to control the public narrative surrounding this effort, or any discoveries. Once NASA starts talking about UFOs—well, like it or not, it’s a whole different conversation."
Can't we have another photo of a cup of coffee instead of this shit.
I'm also right about LAB LEAK
Remember when WHO reported that a "lab leak" was extremely unlikely? Remember when we were all banned from talking about it on social media for a year, because it is a "racist conspiracy theory"?
"Over two years after the coronavirus was first detected in China, the World Health Organization recommended in its strongest terms yet that a deeper investigation is required into whether a lab accident may be to blame"
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
Indeed. Several Premier League grounds have capacities of 60k+ and sell out weekly. Fake tickets are a non-issue.
No insult to the last PL match I was at (Norwich v Burnley) but it's hardly the Champion's League final.
In addition. I believe it was reported that many of the tickets came from hawkers outside the stadium, which is again something the French police and FA should be more concerned about.
How is it going round the world? Is it really over out there like it is here, if not why not?
When’s the next time us 20 year olds will get vaccine?
Could a bad variant come back to UK meaning some restrictions to save lives and protect the NHS?
Covid will never be over. There's no sign of most people being offered jabs again. We're not going back to rules and regulations because most people have long since had enough of them, the Government has zero credibility to demand their acceptance, and the Treasury can't afford to clobber businesses again. Besides which, trying to suppress Omicron is a fool's errand, as amply demonstrated by the Chinese Communist Party.
Moderna has a new jab that targets Omicron and appears to be eight times more effective against it than the legacy jab.
My guess is that - like with the flu vaccine - we'll have annual/bi-annual jabs as we get better at rapidly tweaking the formula to address new variants. And Covid simply becomes another cold/flu type thing.
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT. Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
On topic: Must admit, I've not followed the Twitter spat closely and, despite the one line nub of it (it seemed the polls were alleged to be unreasonably tweaked) on this header, I think this YouGov&ChrisTie affair may merit a little more header attention at some point down the line when the dust settles.
"NASA Is Finally Ready to ‘Science’ UFOs The world’s top space agency has decided to lean into the discussion."
Hmm
Final para:
"The modern UAP story has been populated by quite an ensemble: lawmakers, defense officials, UFO activists, the Blink-182 rock star Tom DeLonge. Now the cast includes the world’s top space agency and its arsenal of sophisticated telescopes and space probes. NASA officials said they would make all of their findings available for anyone to see. No secrets! But that doesn’t mean that NASA will be able to control the public narrative surrounding this effort, or any discoveries. Once NASA starts talking about UFOs—well, like it or not, it’s a whole different conversation."
Can't we have another photo of a cup of coffee instead of this shit.
I'm also right about LAB LEAK
Remember when WHO reported that a "lab leak" was extremely unlikely? Remember when we were all banned from talking about it on social media for a year, because it is a "racist conspiracy theory"?
"Over two years after the coronavirus was first detected in China, the World Health Organization recommended in its strongest terms yet that a deeper investigation is required into whether a lab accident may be to blame"
Time Laundering: Leaving a story alone for enough time to become less inconvenient to whatever narrative was most important when it first surfaced.
Literally every major story in the US seems to have some aspect of this.
Man caught going to Supreme Justices house with intent to kill? nah that's not a story
yet
People need to start suing the arse off whoever is responsible for this lab. I believe it's the US isn't it?
It's China and the US together. With Britain loyally assisting in the subsequent cover-up. Fauci is deeply implicated
Which is why we will never know FOR SURE, it is not in the interests of the two most powerful nations on earth to allow this, and enough time has elapsed to ensure there can be no 100% proof. The evidence is gone
However, anyone with a functioning nervous system can now work out what happened
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
Indeed. Several Premier League grounds have capacities of 60k+ and sell out weekly. Fake tickets are a non-issue.
Because Man City v Chelsea or Liverpool v Man U, no matter how exciting, cannot begin to compare to a UCL final between Liverpool and Real Madrid in Paris
You get the all-English matches twice a season, guaranteed, in the EPL
Since when have major finals of any kind been afflicted by fake tickets on this scale? (2k+ is a lot!)
What credible source do we have that 2k+ were genuinely fake, rather than 'computer says no' "fake"?
Also do we have any information as to how many fake tickets turn up at a normal final? If it weren't for the atrocious security and handling we'd have never heard about the fake tickets.
There is also the fact, IIRC, that some tickets were rejected as Fake if they didn't scan properly, but it seems there was an issue with the scanners and bluetooth, etc
How the F can the French know that there are now exactly 2,498 fakes when the Interior Minister was insistent there were ~450,000 about 3 days ago? Idiots. Why trust anything they say?
Precisely my point. They were 'computer says no' "fake".
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
Indeed. Several Premier League grounds have capacities of 60k+ and sell out weekly. Fake tickets are a non-issue.
No insult to the last PL match I was at (Norwich v Burnley) but it's hardly the Champion's League final.
In addition. I believe it was reported that many of the tickets came from hawkers outside the stadium, which is again something the French police and FA should be more concerned about.
Sure, it was badly organised but nevertheless but it would appear that a nontrivial amount of both sets of fans might have been buying from touts and dodgy ticket websites. Perhaps we will never know the whole truth.
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT. Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
The ten days is commonplace even when symptoms have disappeared. These days, it's symptoms that determine isolation, not testing.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
"But according to official numbers reviewed by The New York Times, the exact number of fake tickets intercepted by stewards manning the entrance gates was far lower: 2,589, to be exact.
That figure is almost three times the usual number of forgeries at the Champions League final, a game widely considered to be European soccer’s equivalent of the Super Bowl, but significantly lower than the figure used by Darmanin, who had as of Wednesday not provided details of the source of his estimate."
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
I'd originally dismissed Curtis' tweet as nonsense, but his subsequent retraction obviously written at lawyerpoint makes me think his now deleted tweet had more than a scintilla of truth to it.
Really? Would you expect YouGov to say/do nothing?
It's like ducking witches.
- If they float, they are witches. Burn them. - if they sink, they are innocent. Shame really.
Well Curtis clearly had pressure applied to make such a statement. The whiff of lawyers threatening to bankrupt him was very very easy to spot. Their remit is certainly not unalloyed truth.
If you don't want lawyers involved, its a good idea not to publicly libel your former employer.
If he could defend what he said, he'd not have backed down, the fact that he has so rapidly and unequivocally suggests he knows full well that he can't.
LOL - for a more generous take to YouGov, see @Malmesbury. It suggests he doesn't want to get into a ruinously expensive libel suit over it.
If he has libelled YouGov then what are they supposed to do? If they don't send the lawyers letter and get an apology then people say it must be true, they're not even challenging it. If they do, then you say lawyers are involved so it must be true.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't it seems.
He could well have left that lot up if we had the USA's more sensible views on freedom of speech. It's the fact the UK is the world capital of libel actions that meant he had to remove it.
Amber Heard might not be quite in agreement.
I followed the US election results closely. The view amongst US lawyers was that the voting machine manufacturers would have a tough time with libel against Giuliani and a couple of other bonkers Trumpers (Can't remember the mad woman's name) - it'd have been trivial in UK courts. Depp's team had to prove malice against Heard in court, it's a much much tougher job than in the UK courts. That's the legal fact - that the US jury came to conclude he'd gone over that very very high bar and the UK judge reckoned he'd failed to clear the much lower one is simply evidence that the US jury was wildly more pro-Depp than the UK judge (Or the UK judge much more pro Heard). The US bar for libel is way higher than the UK.
You don't think it is just that the US Jury actually got to hear a proper cross examination of the Heard claims whilst the UK judge dismissed many of the challenges without their being heard in court?
Not sure that can be described as being 'pro-Depp'.
There were lots of reasons why Depp won in the US, but lost in the UK, and I think it's lazy to just assume it was because of a biased judge.
To me, the most devastating evidence in the US case was from Amber Heard's own sister - a woman who also testified in London. In London, Depp's lawyer questioned her at length about her evidence that she had seen Depp grab Heard's hair, and throw things at her.
In the US, the sister gave the same testimony about Depp's behaviour... But we also heard something else: Heard's sister had behaved abusively towards her. The same witness, different cross examination, and instead of being a devastating witness for Depp (as she was in London), she was now a devastating one for Heard, basically ensuring that everyone knew that she was no wide eyed innocent.
I don't think I said the judge was biased. I said that he made decisions which prevented a proper cross examination of the witnesses and evidence. I am a strong believer in cock up rather than conspiracy. I just think the judge was wrong, not biased.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT. Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
The ten days is commonplace even when symptoms have disappeared. These days, it's symptoms that determine isolation, not testing.
Not if you want to avoid catching it. A positive LFT means you are very likely still infectious, whatever the isolation rules.
This is madness. Boris is a puppet of the ERG leading us on the road to destruction. Come on 1922, change the rules so that this man can be voted out on the say-so of a single MP. Anything. Get that treasonous europhile Hunt in. Now!
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT. Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
The ten days is commonplace even when symptoms have disappeared. These days, it's symptoms that determine isolation, not testing.
Not if you want to avoid catching it. A positive LFT means you are very likely still infectious, whatever the isolation rules.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT. Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
I have Covid.
This may mean that I am more ratty and irritable than normal. So, if I bite your head off because you said something stupid about aliens, then I apologise.
WRT the thread header, I am fairly sure I saw one company say their actual 2015 final poll was closer to the final result but had been pulled as it stood away from rest which were all, broadly, predicting a tie in vote sure.
The more I think about it, it feels to me like the tories are in existential crisis. They could well be on the cusp of a "collapse of the liberal party" wipeout in the next general election. It is early 2019 revisited. Johnson's reinvention of the conservative party looks at the moment like it has completely failed. So, someone has to repeat what Johnson did in 2019, but with the first priority being to fix market credibility. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Time is short.
Maybe Penny can reinvent them as the caring but discliplined party. Attractive matron.
The main alternative, and favourite for the moment, is Hunt - comparatively a focus on pure professionalism. I'm not sure how far that would go, or how long it would necessarily last, though.
Risk with Hunt is not only do the Tories fail to win back any voters lost to Labour or the LDs but they also leak Leavers back to RefUK and end up on the 20 to 25% they were on before May resigned and even worse than the 33% they are on now
Farage would likely return to lead RefUK if Hunt replaced Boris as Tory leader and PM
No he wouldn't. Why are you worrying about Leavers? We've left!
Hunt/Mordaunt/Wallace need to calm the Blue wall without frightening the RedWall. It's a tough balance to achieve, but at present Johnson has pissed off both sets of voters.
Hunt would likely try and return to May's Brexit Deal again, that would inevitably see some Tory Leavers leak to Farage and RefUK
No he wouldn't.
You primarily need to steady the nerves of Surrey voters and their ilk. They would prefer a softer redial of Brexit. Hunt does that for you.
Your RedWall are currently concerned with the economy. You sell the Single Market to them as a means of improving the economy whilst retaining their newly minted sovereignty. You say selected Europeans can then come in to do the jobs they don't want to do, but explain it wouldn't be the free for all that Labour would allow (even if that is a white lie). Hunt could do that for you.
You tell Farage and the ERG to **** off! Nobody likes them any more.
Personally I'd like to see the back of the Conservatives for a decade. The longer Johnson remains, the more likely I suspect that becomes a reality.
Reopen free movement which return to the single market requires and the redwall is lost to the Tories for good.
Farage also would be even more certain to return than with a return to May's Deal
Farage and the Tories would split what was left of the Tory vote after Johnson between them. Canada's Conservatives in 1993 would beckon.
The Tories are never going to get less than about 165 seats (as they won in 1997 and 2001). The Canadian Conservatives were reduced to 2 seats in 1993. Not much of a comparison.
If Farage's party overtook them, like Reform overtook the Canadian Tories in 1993 they would.
See also the Les Republicains collapse in France as it has lost support to Le Pen and Zemmour as well as Macron
No party led by Farage is ever going to overtake either the Tories or Labour - and probably not even the Lib Dems - in a GE. The best they can do is steal votes from them but even they they won't translate into seats. The dynamic simply isn't there.
If the Tories went for a policy to rejoin the EU or return to the single market and full free movement they might.
Before May went in Spring 2019 the Brexit Party were near neck and neck with the Tories in some polls. Until Johnson was elected Tory leader the Brexit Party even overtook the Tories in a few polls.
At the 2015 General Election UKIP got more votes than the LDs if not more seats
That was all then. This is now. This is the mistake you always make. You never look at the small print.
It says:
"'Past performance does not guarantee future results' "
You ned a big sign stating this over your computer.
If the Tories elected a leader committed to rejoining the EU they would get about 10% of the vote, the rest would defect to Farage's Party which would get about 30%.
Though that is near impossible to foresee given Tory members would vote against any pro EU leadership candidate unless Tory MPs committed suicide and gave a coronation to such a candidate
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
Out of a capacity of 80,000, even the total of 2,549 should have been managable.
I'm not defending the French. Clearly they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
Indeed. Several Premier League grounds have capacities of 60k+ and sell out weekly. Fake tickets are a non-issue.
No insult to the last PL match I was at (Norwich v Burnley) but it's hardly the Champion's League final.
In addition. I believe it was reported that many of the tickets came from hawkers outside the stadium, which is again something the French police and FA should be more concerned about.
Rather appropriately, the French FA is actually the Fédération Française de Football.
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT. Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
The ten days is commonplace even when symptoms have disappeared. These days, it's symptoms that determine isolation, not testing.
Not if you want to avoid catching it. A positive LFT means you are very likely still infectious, whatever the isolation rules.
There are people who still want to avoid catching it? Or taking LFTs?
What's the frigging point. The pandemics over, its a normal virus now, and we have vaccines. The time for LFTs was before we had vaccines.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
What chance that “Fake Ticket” actually means “Couldn’t be read by the computer, because the computer couldn’t connnect to the database”?
Plenty of fake tickets in the pictures of fans holding up tickets outside the ground.
Still at it and still unprepared to apologise for the terrible slurs on Liverpool fans.
Worst thing is someone who just doesn't admit to getting something wrong. Like I did with the invasion.
Sigh.
Nah, just calling out c**** who think it's acceptable to turn up to a football match with a fake ticket.
More than likely those with fake tickets were the victims of crime than criminals themselves.
There were cases of tickets bought from legitimate sources (such as the club themselves) and told that they were fake.
Of course turning up without a ticket at all is different.
You seriously think the clubs were distributing fake tickets?
I'm sorry, but if you buy from the black market, you're as guilty as the person making the fake ticket.
People who were told their tickets were fake, had purchased them from official sources.
Like TSE? But that's different to them actually being fake. And that image that I've linked to shows fans with fake tickets. I'd be shocked if they had bought them from Liverpool or UEFA.
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT. Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
I have Covid.
This may mean that I am more ratty and irritable than normal. So, if I bite your head off because you said something stupid about aliens, then I apologise.
The more I think about it, it feels to me like the tories are in existential crisis. They could well be on the cusp of a "collapse of the liberal party" wipeout in the next general election. It is early 2019 revisited. Johnson's reinvention of the conservative party looks at the moment like it has completely failed. So, someone has to repeat what Johnson did in 2019, but with the first priority being to fix market credibility. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Time is short.
Maybe Penny can reinvent them as the caring but discliplined party. Attractive matron.
The main alternative, and favourite for the moment, is Hunt - comparatively a focus on pure professionalism. I'm not sure how far that would go, or how long it would necessarily last, though.
Risk with Hunt is not only do the Tories fail to win back any voters lost to Labour or the LDs but they also leak Leavers back to RefUK and end up on the 20 to 25% they were on before May resigned and even worse than the 33% they are on now
Farage would likely return to lead RefUK if Hunt replaced Boris as Tory leader and PM
No he wouldn't. Why are you worrying about Leavers? We've left!
Hunt/Mordaunt/Wallace need to calm the Blue wall without frightening the RedWall. It's a tough balance to achieve, but at present Johnson has pissed off both sets of voters.
Hunt would likely try and return to May's Brexit Deal again, that would inevitably see some Tory Leavers leak to Farage and RefUK
No he wouldn't.
You primarily need to steady the nerves of Surrey voters and their ilk. They would prefer a softer redial of Brexit. Hunt does that for you.
Your RedWall are currently concerned with the economy. You sell the Single Market to them as a means of improving the economy whilst retaining their newly minted sovereignty. You say selected Europeans can then come in to do the jobs they don't want to do, but explain it wouldn't be the free for all that Labour would allow (even if that is a white lie). Hunt could do that for you.
You tell Farage and the ERG to **** off! Nobody likes them any more.
Personally I'd like to see the back of the Conservatives for a decade. The longer Johnson remains, the more likely I suspect that becomes a reality.
Reopen free movement which return to the single market requires and the redwall is lost to the Tories for good.
Farage also would be even more certain to return than with a return to May's Deal
Farage and the Tories would split what was left of the Tory vote after Johnson between them. Canada's Conservatives in 1993 would beckon.
The Tories are never going to get less than about 165 seats (as they won in 1997 and 2001). The Canadian Conservatives were reduced to 2 seats in 1993. Not much of a comparison.
If Farage's party overtook them, like Reform overtook the Canadian Tories in 1993 they would.
See also the Les Republicains collapse in France as it has lost support to Le Pen and Zemmour as well as Macron
No party led by Farage is ever going to overtake either the Tories or Labour - and probably not even the Lib Dems - in a GE. The best they can do is steal votes from them but even they they won't translate into seats. The dynamic simply isn't there.
If the Tories went for a policy to rejoin the EU or return to the single market and full free movement they might.
Before May went in Spring 2019 the Brexit Party were near neck and neck with the Tories in some polls. Until Johnson was elected Tory leader the Brexit Party even overtook the Tories in a few polls.
At the 2015 General Election UKIP got more votes than the LDs if not more seats
That was all then. This is now. This is the mistake you always make. You never look at the small print.
It says:
"'Past performance does not guarantee future results' "
You ned a big sign stating this over your computer.
Just my observations to him earlier, but seems little point as he is in denial over anything like a reasoned argument
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT. Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
The ten days is commonplace even when symptoms have disappeared. These days, it's symptoms that determine isolation, not testing.
Not if you want to avoid catching it. A positive LFT means you are very likely still infectious, whatever the isolation rules.
There are people who still want to avoid catching it? Or taking LFTs?
What's the frigging point. The pandemics over, its a normal virus now, and we have vaccines. The time for LFTs was before we had vaccines.
I don't even think "avoiding catching it" is even remotely possible, unless you literally stay in your bedroom alone forever and order all your food via biosecure drone.
2015 feels like an incorrect assumption was baked in, the Tories were ahead all along (maybe from the June 2014 Newark by-election) and the reality was fairly static but systematically wrong. See also, possibly, 2019.
2017 is forgivable as things were changing so much so rapidly.
Let's talk about 2017 more, it has all the wrong lessons.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT. Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
I have Covid.
This may mean that I am more ratty and irritable than normal. So, if I bite your head off because you said something stupid about aliens, then I apologise.
Someone is denying that the aliens are here??!
FFS
Robert has temporary covid psychosis. When he recovers sanity he'll be the first to admit that they walk among us.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
What chance that “Fake Ticket” actually means “Couldn’t be read by the computer, because the computer couldn’t connnect to the database”?
Plenty of fake tickets in the pictures of fans holding up tickets outside the ground.
Still at it and still unprepared to apologise for the terrible slurs on Liverpool fans.
Worst thing is someone who just doesn't admit to getting something wrong. Like I did with the invasion.
Sigh.
Nah, just calling out c**** who think it's acceptable to turn up to a football match with a fake ticket.
I get that you are an Arsenal fan and have issues with Liverpool fans, maybe they disrupted your sleep at Highbury or the Emirates once and you still hold it against them but from the moment the problems were emerging you were very happy to blame Liverpool fans.
Since then as the truth has come out but by not you seem to have looked for smaller and smaller things to find fault with as if they were evil crimes. I expect you to start complying that some of the Liverpool fans didn’t wash their hands after taking a puss next.
As Leon said - this was a massive game and so the prevalence of fake tickets was always going to be higher.
The fact that such big games had been disrupted by Covid added to the desire to get tickets.
Added to the improvement of tech to be able to create very convincing fakes by small scale operators it’s something that will grow as a problem and this is the first high profile experience of probably many to come.
Then there are many, not just players friends who got official club tickets that were declared fake, but also reports from UEFA sponsors and guests with the same problem.
So maybe get off the high horse and when Arsenal make it to a major final again you can come back and ask me to apologise when absolutely no Arsenal fans present fake or “fake” tickets.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
You're right, that is a tiny sample. Doesn't explain why many legitimate tickets bought from legitimate sources were being rejected as fake.
How do you know those ones are fake incidentally?
You're the only one still banging this drum of "fake tickets" rather than realising the problem was the authorities screwed up.
Liverpool fans turning up with fake tickets does not excuse the authorities of their responsibility. But fans turning up with fake tickets should be called out for what they are.
Look at the font of Liverpool v Real Madrid CF. Compare the F of CF with the gates open at 18:00. The F should be before the 1, but in the tickets held by the fans in the image, it is level with the 0s.
The more I think about it, it feels to me like the tories are in existential crisis. They could well be on the cusp of a "collapse of the liberal party" wipeout in the next general election. It is early 2019 revisited. Johnson's reinvention of the conservative party looks at the moment like it has completely failed. So, someone has to repeat what Johnson did in 2019, but with the first priority being to fix market credibility. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Time is short.
Maybe Penny can reinvent them as the caring but discliplined party. Attractive matron.
The main alternative, and favourite for the moment, is Hunt - comparatively a focus on pure professionalism. I'm not sure how far that would go, or how long it would necessarily last, though.
Risk with Hunt is not only do the Tories fail to win back any voters lost to Labour or the LDs but they also leak Leavers back to RefUK and end up on the 20 to 25% they were on before May resigned and even worse than the 33% they are on now
Farage would likely return to lead RefUK if Hunt replaced Boris as Tory leader and PM
No he wouldn't. Why are you worrying about Leavers? We've left!
Hunt/Mordaunt/Wallace need to calm the Blue wall without frightening the RedWall. It's a tough balance to achieve, but at present Johnson has pissed off both sets of voters.
Hunt would likely try and return to May's Brexit Deal again, that would inevitably see some Tory Leavers leak to Farage and RefUK
No he wouldn't.
You primarily need to steady the nerves of Surrey voters and their ilk. They would prefer a softer redial of Brexit. Hunt does that for you.
Your RedWall are currently concerned with the economy. You sell the Single Market to them as a means of improving the economy whilst retaining their newly minted sovereignty. You say selected Europeans can then come in to do the jobs they don't want to do, but explain it wouldn't be the free for all that Labour would allow (even if that is a white lie). Hunt could do that for you.
You tell Farage and the ERG to **** off! Nobody likes them any more.
Personally I'd like to see the back of the Conservatives for a decade. The longer Johnson remains, the more likely I suspect that becomes a reality.
Reopen free movement which return to the single market requires and the redwall is lost to the Tories for good.
Farage also would be even more certain to return than with a return to May's Deal
Farage and the Tories would split what was left of the Tory vote after Johnson between them. Canada's Conservatives in 1993 would beckon.
The Tories are never going to get less than about 165 seats (as they won in 1997 and 2001). The Canadian Conservatives were reduced to 2 seats in 1993. Not much of a comparison.
If Farage's party overtook them, like Reform overtook the Canadian Tories in 1993 they would.
See also the Les Republicains collapse in France as it has lost support to Le Pen and Zemmour as well as Macron
No party led by Farage is ever going to overtake either the Tories or Labour - and probably not even the Lib Dems - in a GE. The best they can do is steal votes from them but even they they won't translate into seats. The dynamic simply isn't there.
If the Tories went for a policy to rejoin the EU or return to the single market and full free movement they might.
Before May went in Spring 2019 the Brexit Party were near neck and neck with the Tories in some polls. Until Johnson was elected Tory leader the Brexit Party even overtook the Tories in a few polls.
At the 2015 General Election UKIP got more votes than the LDs if not more seats
That was all then. This is now. This is the mistake you always make. You never look at the small print.
It says:
"'Past performance does not guarantee future results' "
You ned a big sign stating this over your computer.
If the Tories elected a leader committed to rejoining the EU they would get about 10% of the vote, the rest would defect to Farage's Party which would get about 30%.
Though that is near impossible to foresee given Tory members would vote against any pro EU leadership candidate unless Tory MPs committed suicide and gave a coronation to such a candidate
I am ever so grateful there are saner voices in the conservative party
You are clever in some ways but utterly stupid in others
2015 feels like an incorrect assumption was baked in, the Tories were ahead all along (maybe from the June 2014 Newark by-election) and the reality was fairly static but systematically wrong. See also, possibly, 2019.
2017 is forgivable as things were changing so much so rapidly.
Let's talk about 2017 more, it has all the wrong lessons.
One thing about 2017 is that Labour candidates reported that they got lots of responses that they thought it was safe to vote for their good local candidate because Corbyn was nowhere near winning. Perhaps if the polling had been more accurate it would have had a corrective effect.
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT. Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
My brother has just had it, and one of our receptionists brought it back from Spain. Neither too bad though.
Well, thoughts and prayers for the PB thickos who were blaming Liverpool fans around 6 to 9pm on Saturday the 28th of May.
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
What chance that “Fake Ticket” actually means “Couldn’t be read by the computer, because the computer couldn’t connnect to the database”?
Plenty of fake tickets in the pictures of fans holding up tickets outside the ground.
Still at it and still unprepared to apologise for the terrible slurs on Liverpool fans.
Worst thing is someone who just doesn't admit to getting something wrong. Like I did with the invasion.
Sigh.
Nah, just calling out c**** who think it's acceptable to turn up to a football match with a fake ticket.
I get that you are an Arsenal fan and have issues with Liverpool fans, maybe they disrupted your sleep at Highbury or the Emirates once and you still hold it against them but from the moment the problems were emerging you were very happy to blame Liverpool fans.
Since then as the truth has come out but by not you seem to have looked for smaller and smaller things to find fault with as if they were evil crimes. I expect you to start complying that some of the Liverpool fans didn’t wash their hands after taking a puss next.
As Leon said - this was a massive game and so the prevalence of fake tickets was always going to be higher.
The fact that such big games had been disrupted by Covid added to the desire to get tickets.
Added to the improvement of tech to be able to create very convincing fakes by small scale operators it’s something that will grow as a problem and this is the first high profile experience of probably many to come.
Then there are many, not just players friends who got official club tickets that were declared fake, but also reports from UEFA sponsors and guests with the same problem.
So maybe get off the high horse and when Arsenal make it to a major final again you can come back and ask me to apologise when absolutely no Arsenal fans present fake or “fake” tickets.
I didn't get a ticket for Paris 2006. I didn't try to get one on the black market.
I don't recall their being problems (other than the Barca team bus got a police escort and Arsenal's didn't and were late).
Comments
Remember when WHO reported that a "lab leak" was extremely unlikely? Remember when we were all banned from talking about it on social media for a year, because it is a "racist conspiracy theory"?
"Over two years after the coronavirus was first detected in China, the World Health Organization recommended in its strongest terms yet that a deeper investigation is required into whether a lab accident may be to blame"
.https://twitter.com/AP/status/1535037093814075398?s=20&t=4dC_HpwmWRxDlTEkLSUW2w
You won't even be the main opposition party let alone the government, see the Progressive Conservatives in Canada, Les Republicains and the Socialist Party in France, PASOK in Greece and Forza Italia in Italy and Fianna Fail in Ireland and of course Scottish Labour which all have suffered that fate, even if the latter 2 have seen a minor revival
France’s sports minister has written to Liverpool to apologise to fans about the events at the Champions League final in Paris and accepting that it could have brought back “painful memories” of the Hillsborough disaster.
Amélie Oudéa-Castéra also admitted there had been “several successive failures” by the French authorities at the Stade de France which led to thousands of fans being locked out and French riot police using tear gas often indiscriminately.
It is a significant climb-down by the minister who had initially claimed Liverpool were partly to blame for the mayhem, telling French radio station RTL soon after the final that the club failed to properly organise its supporters and that there was a “mass gathering” of 30,000-to-40,000 Liverpool fans without tickets outside the venue.
An official 30-page report commissioned by the French prime minister has on Friday accepted there were 1,644 fake tickets in the Liverpool end and a total of only 2,589. It also blames operational failures, poor signage, a lack of information and reduced train station facilities for the problems.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/french-minister-apologises-to-liverpool-fans-for-bringing-back-painful-memories-of-hillsborough-8vnjj28t6
https://www.ft.com/content/ebdbc1cf-5cfd-42ac-a4fa-1e928eb702ff
I mean, who the FUCK could've predicted that? No wonder the World Health Organisation was completely bewildered by it all, for two and a half years
Contrary to what's been spouted in the press, most people don't do this.
And if peace in NI is preserved by British actions, then what purpose would rebalancing measures serve? Then it boils down to what it always was, a trade dispute, and absolutely nothing to do with the Good Friday Agreement.
The BA.4 and BA.5 sub-variants are the ones winning out the evolutionary race. They've caused a ramp up in South Africa first and in the US and we're just on the start of the BA.4/5 rise here.
The SA experience was that the rise in BA.4/5 did cause a bit of a rise in hospitalisations, but not as bad as the earlier Omicron wave. It looks like there is some immunity preservation between different Omicron sub-variants (and hybrid immunity - vaccine breakthrough infection-immunity is better still and broader). This implies that there shouldn't be as much of an increase here (hospital-wise, anyway).
It does seem that, for the first time, further mutations are occurring based off one particular variant (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, and Omicron were all antigenically distinct; none grew out of any of the others). This time, the mutations are all apparently occurring off of the Omicron stem. This is good news (as much as variant mutation can be good news) because very little infection-acquired immunity was retained from non-Omicron covid infections to protect against Omicron, and we could realistically assume that Omicron-acquired infection would be similarly limited at best against other putative non-Omicron-descended variants.
As the majority of immunity in the UK today amongst the younger ages (which were the engine room for the Delta surge) is Omicron-acquired immunity, it would have been bad news had this (shift to everything coming off the Omicron branch) not been the case. As it is, we should be in a pretty good place.
In addition, Moderna have managed to come up with an Omicron-specific booster that does provide a significant increase in protection (as well as widening it), so if we're looking at future covid all being Omicron-covid, that's good.
Summary:
- New Omicron mini-wave from BA.4/5 just beginning in UK. Expectation is that it will be less than BA.2 or Omicron in terms of impact.
- Omicron-descended variants look to be the future (my personal non-expert opinion), which would be good for both infection-acquired immunity retention (especially against severe disease) and for Omicron-tailored vaccines
- Unlikely to see more doses for the younger echelons. The uptick at the moment in hospitalisations (which is from a low base) is amongst the older
- If you're eligible for a second booster and you haven't had one, now is a very good time to get one
- Cannot see restrictions being required or applied. Pharmaceutical Interventions (paxlovid, vaccines) far better than NPIs and less disruptive and less crude
- Any focus we should do is on repairing the healthcare service from the impact to date, especially on the social care side, because that's the logjam in getting things through.
What annoys me is that fans turning up with fake tickets gets dismissed as something that happens all the time. It most certainly does not.
Tickets were mega expensive and thus highly enticing to potential fakers
Thanks.
😂
You get the all-English matches twice a season, guaranteed, in the EPL
There've been far too many reports of people getting told their tickets were "fake" when they'd been acquired through legitimate venues.
Surprisingly (not), the criminals have moved in to exploit this.
An electronic ticketing system that would control the secondary market, stamp out fakes and allow easy verification of tickets (think outer cordon at big games) is the way to go.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/03/omicron-covid-subvariant-drives-spike-in-cases-and-deaths-in-portgual
'Computer says no' doesn't mean "fake".
Is anyone following this, and have the French Govt explained yet why tear gas affected blind people carrying their walking sticks in a queue of wheelchair users at a disabled gate?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017tht (1st item?)
Literally every major story in the US seems to have some aspect of this.
Man caught going to Supreme Justices house with intent to kill?
nah
that's not a story
yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCkagYixpuc
There is one clear winner from this week’s turmoil. And it’s not Keir Starmer or the Tory rebels
As the fog of war lifts, here are the consequences of a massive week in politics
Analysis:
https://news.sky.com/story/theres-one-clear-winner-after-boris-johnsons-grim-week-and-its-not-keir-starmer-or-the-tory-rebels-12631454
Also do we have any information as to how many fake tickets turn up at a normal final? If it weren't for the atrocious security and handling we'd have never heard about the fake tickets.
Worst thing is someone who just doesn't admit to getting something wrong. Like I did with the invasion.
Sigh.
It says:
"'Past performance does not guarantee future results' "
You ned a big sign stating this over your computer.
To me, the most devastating evidence in the US case was from Amber Heard's own sister - a woman who also testified in London. In London, Depp's lawyer questioned her at length about her evidence that she had seen Depp grab Heard's hair, and throw things at her.
In the US, the sister gave the same testimony about Depp's behaviour... But we also heard something else: Heard's sister had behaved abusively towards her. The same witness, different cross examination, and instead of being a devastating witness for Depp (as she was in London), she was now a devastating one for Heard, basically ensuring that everyone knew that she was no wide eyed innocent.
How the F can the French know that there are now exactly 2,498 fakes when the Interior Minister was insistent there were ~450,000 about 3 days ago? Idiots. Why trust anything they say?
** Boris Johnson wasn’t sold on a full range assault on the Protocol - but agreed to it this week after losing the VONC
** How the cabinet lined up in 2 Cabinet subcommittee meetings
** Pain ahead https://twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1535276343037988866
In addition. I believe it was reported that many of the tickets came from hawkers outside the stadium, which is again something the French police and FA should be more concerned about.
My guess is that - like with the flu vaccine - we'll have annual/bi-annual jabs as we get better at rapidly tweaking the formula to address new variants. And Covid simply becomes another cold/flu type thing.
My children both had a second round if it a couple of weeks back. 24 hours of high temp (just shy of 104F for one of them), and 10 days before a clear LFT.
Daughter was staying with us, but we managed to avoid getting it by being very careful.
Which is why we will never know FOR SURE, it is not in the interests of the two most powerful nations on earth to allow this, and enough time has elapsed to ensure there can be no 100% proof. The evidence is gone
However, anyone with a functioning nervous system can now work out what happened
I wouldn't believe a word this guy says.
There were cases of tickets bought from legitimate sources (such as the club themselves) and told that they were fake.
Of course turning up without a ticket at all is different.
I'm sorry, but if you buy from the black market, you're as guilty as the person making the fake ticket.
"But according to official numbers reviewed by The New York Times, the exact number of fake tickets intercepted by stewards manning the entrance gates was far lower: 2,589, to be exact.
That figure is almost three times the usual number of forgeries at the Champions League final, a game widely considered to be European soccer’s equivalent of the Super Bowl, but significantly lower than the figure used by Darmanin, who had as of Wednesday not provided details of the source of his estimate."
That article, by the way, is from 1 June.
Numerous trustworthy reports of people being told they were fake when bought or otherwise acquired (eg from sponsors/players) from legitimate sources.
We should all know by now that just because 'computer says no' it doesn't mean that the computer is correct.
Legitimate tickets were being rejected as "fake".
A positive LFT means you are very likely still infectious, whatever the isolation rules.
https://tinyurl.com/2p83cnrv
This may mean that I am more ratty and irritable than normal. So, if I bite your head off because you said something stupid about aliens, then I apologise.
Though that is near impossible to foresee given Tory members would vote against any pro EU leadership candidate unless Tory MPs committed suicide and gave a coronation to such a candidate
FFF.
Fail, fail, fail.
What's the frigging point. The pandemics over, its a normal virus now, and we have vaccines. The time for LFTs was before we had vaccines.
Very shoot and scoot - attack takes 4 minutes.
They have 18 vehicles working in sections of 3.
https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/focus/20220610-meet-the-ukrainian-forces-using-french-supplied-caesar-howitzers
FFS
2017 is forgivable as things were changing so much so rapidly.
Let's talk about 2017 more, it has all the wrong lessons.
How do you know those ones are fake incidentally?
You're the only one still banging this drum of "fake tickets" rather than realising the problem was the authorities screwed up.
https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1535283450852388864
https://news.sky.com/story/theres-one-clear-winner-after-boris-johnsons-grim-week-and-its-not-keir-starmer-or-the-tory-rebels-12631454
Since then as the truth has come out but by not you seem to have looked for smaller and smaller things to find fault with as if they were evil crimes. I expect you to start complying that some of the Liverpool fans didn’t wash their hands after taking a puss next.
As Leon said - this was a massive game and so the prevalence of fake tickets was always going to be higher.
The fact that such big games had been disrupted by Covid added to the desire to get tickets.
Added to the improvement of tech to be able to create very convincing fakes by small scale operators it’s something that will grow as a problem and this is the first high profile experience of probably many to come.
Then there are many, not just players friends who got official club tickets that were declared fake, but also reports from UEFA sponsors and guests with the same problem.
So maybe get off the high horse and when Arsenal make it to a major final again you can come back and ask me to apologise when absolutely no Arsenal fans present fake or “fake” tickets.
Real v fake:
https://tinyurl.com/4sw85m8w
Look at the font of Liverpool v Real Madrid CF. Compare the F of CF with the gates open at 18:00. The F should be before the 1, but in the tickets held by the fans in the image, it is level with the 0s.
You are clever in some ways but utterly stupid in others
Farage at 30% - really
This is one of your stupid posts
I don't recall their being problems (other than the Barca team bus got a police escort and Arsenal's didn't and were late).