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Johnson’s premiership is on a knife edge – politicalbetting.com

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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,789
    Mr. Observer, by that rationale the Labour Party you support remains indelibly stained by the tenure of Corbyn.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446

    Andy_JS said:

    "Boris Johnson’s allies concede Tory rebels close to triggering no-confidence vote" (via G search)

    https://www.ft.com/content/c7480de9-323a-410b-889b-dd24bbee593d

    The sentiment has been seriously anti-Boris in the last 72 hours. Hard to imagine anyone has been persuaded to stay their hand. Much easier to imagine seeing the PM booed so visibly in the public eye has convinced some waverers to finally put in their letter.

    I stand by my prediction made a while ago that there will be a VONC - and that Boris's premiership will cease this week.

    It will be quite the week for domestic politics. Maybe Durham police could add to the chaos too....
    The worst scenario (but unfortunately quite a likely one) is that there is a VONC but Boris survives by, say, 200 to 160 votes.

    That would be damage the whole party because it would tarnish the whole Conservative brand with Boris's failings.

    What would it take for you to evict him? Etc.
    Yeah, if I was a Tory MP concerned mainly about my job I don't think I'd send the letter in, but once the contest was on I'd vote to rip the bandage off.

    There's no "party shows support and puts the matter behind them" option here because you know there will be a load more scandals coming to light by this time next year.
    That’s why I see this as the end. I honestly can’t see how he wins the VONC. Where’s he going to get 180 + votes from?
    There's a strong constituency of MPs who believe Boris has a clear mandate, that these are the usual mid-term blues, that anyone else couldn't hold the coalition together and it's part of a broader plot to betray Brexit. That's on top of a core loyalist and payroll vote. So he will get a fair few votes.

    But, my reading of the runes is that this is far more like the IDS 2003 no confidence vote rather than the May 2018 no confidence vote so I expect it to be much closer.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    The worst possible scenario for the Brexit Revolutionary Party is them having a VONC and then Boris Johnson winning the vote. Then they’re deep into Lame Duck territory.

    It is also the most likely scenario.

    I have not changed my assessment:
    Boris Johnson will lead his party at the next general election.
    Boris Johnson will lead his party to defeat at the next general election.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,589

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Did Sir Graham travel down to London yesterday, is any blockage at Watford Junction to be regarded as suspicious, or is he to announce from Altrincham?

    If he does, will Johnson be for Sale?
    All depends on the size of his Crewe.
    None, they're on strike this morning.
    At what point do the RMT realise, that most of the City is now set up to be able to work from home on strike days, and that genuine disruption to business is mostly limited to the coffee shops and paper sellers?
    I can understand why the workers want to strike at this time of extreme pressure on prices.

    But the timing of tis strike, with a rail system that needs to attract people back to work, is awful.

    And add in the way some of the RMT's leadership support pro-Russian separatists in the Ukrainian war, and the timing is really suspicious.

    I want a strong, vibrant public transport system in the UK, with rail as a major component. The RMT want to destroy the system - in the same way manner their leaders' mates have destroyed eastern Ukraine.
    This is getting a bit reds under the bed, unless you think the Kremlin thinks long-range missiles are shipped to Ukraine via Bank station.

    ETA the strike appears to be a continuation of the dispute over job cuts and pensions rather than wages.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tube-strike-begins-today-with-passengers-warned-stations-will-be-closed/ar-AAY7nL4
    It's not 'reds under the beds'. It's the way the strike appears sus because the union's leadership chose to publicly associate itself with a topic that had zero to do with its business - and 'chose' a side which has proven to be fairly evil - as any look at what happened in the separatist states, or in the last 100 days - shows.

    It makes the timing of this strike - which will cause the UK harm - really suspicious.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    If Johnson does go - and I’ll believe it when I see it - we are still left with a governing party that has demonstrated it has no attachment to Parliamentary democracy or the rule of law. None of the potential candidates to replace him is going to change that.

    Lol. Getting the attack lines ready for phase two.
    Not really. I would actually like to be proved wrong. But very few Tories have opposed Johnson’s stifling of Parliament, making it harder to vote, ending the Electoral Commission’s independence, criminalising peaceful protest or moves to put the executive beyond judicial scrutiny, so I am not hopeful that the Orbanisation of the UK will end should he go.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    The worst possible scenario for the Brexit Revolutionary Party is them having a VONC and then Boris Johnson winning the vote. Then they’re deep into Lame Duck territory.

    It is also the most likely scenario.

    I have not changed my assessment:
    Boris Johnson will lead his party at the next general election.
    Boris Johnson will lead his party to defeat at the next general election.

    Yes, I think the oaf survives the VONC, and the whole farce continues.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,446

    Mr. Observer, by that rationale the Labour Party you support remains indelibly stained by the tenure of Corbyn.

    He's a partisan Labour supporter who's fed up of being out of office after 12 years and now wants his team in power again. The hyperbole and superlatives about threats to democracy are part of that.

    I don't blame him. I'd probably be the same.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Jesse Norman:

    I have supported Boris Johnson for 15 years, for the London Mayoralty and for PM. Very sadly, I have written to him to say I can no longer do so, for the reasons set out below.

    https://twitter.com/jesse_norman/status/1533699235417403393

    Worth reading the letter.

    It's almost certainly on today.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    The Theresa May confidence vote was 200 to 117 - at a time after she’d lost her Parliamentary majority, and had proven several times to be utterly unable to enact her flagship piece of legislation.

    I know it appears to be the contrarian view on here, but I still don’t think the rebels have 180 votes, even if they do have the 54 required for the challenge.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565

    The worst possible scenario for the Brexit Revolutionary Party is them having a VONC and then Boris Johnson winning the vote. Then they’re deep into Lame Duck territory.

    It is also the most likely scenario.

    I have not changed my assessment:
    Boris Johnson will lead his party at the next general election.
    Boris Johnson will lead his party to defeat at the next general election.

    The second part of your assessment being shared by Tory MPs is why the first part will not come to pass. And once you have reached that assessment as a Tory MP, then "If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well it were done quickly".
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    Mr. Observer, by that rationale the Labour Party you support remains indelibly stained by the tenure of Corbyn.

    Corbyn is no longer a Labour MP. But, yes, Labour still has a long way to go to restore voters’ trust in the party. Let’s see if a new Tory leader revokes the measures that Johnson has put in place to erode our democracy. I would love it to happen, but as all viable candidates for the leadership backed them I can’t see it happening. I would love to be proved wrong, though.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    Steve Baker should be watched. Not necessarily as a possible runner, but for his opinion which will carry weight among brexiter mps.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    If Johnson does go - and I’ll believe it when I see it - we are still left with a governing party that has demonstrated it has no attachment to Parliamentary democracy or the rule of law. None of the potential candidates to replace him is going to change that.

    Lol. Getting the attack lines ready for phase two.
    Worried Tory MPs are going to shoot Labour’s biggest fox….
    Notable, though, that Wes Streeting (on R4 earlier) was every bit as vociferous as Roger Gale later on, and giving the same reason, that now was the time for Johnson to go, since none of the likely replacements were likely to be as bad as PM.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    edited June 2022
    Health Secretary Sajid Javid tells @BBCBreakfast it is "likely" the 54 letters threshold has been reached.

    https://twitter.com/ruddick/status/1533700781664346113?s=21&t=fGrAMwFhm-Lv_dbvnxPWVA
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited June 2022

    Mr. Observer, by that rationale the Labour Party you support remains indelibly stained by the tenure of Corbyn.

    As regularly argued here.

    And while it's true, hanging on to either would have been a worse stain.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Thread:

    There is *still* a widespread but *mistaken* assumption that, should Johnson survive a vote of no confidence, he is safe for another year. Yet, thanks to those who sought to defenestrate his predecessor, we know that this is *not* in fact the case. Chapter and verse in this 🧵1/4

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1533702181249064960

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    edited June 2022

    The worst possible scenario for the Brexit Revolutionary Party is them having a VONC and then Boris Johnson winning the vote. Then they’re deep into Lame Duck territory.

    It is also the most likely scenario.

    I have not changed my assessment:
    Boris Johnson will lead his party at the next general election.
    Boris Johnson will lead his party to defeat at the next general election.

    Good morning

    It does seem some of Boris's opponents are beginning to realise he may well be sacked and their response is he will survive and lead the party to defeat in 24

    The one certain thing about the conservative party is their desire for power and over the coming weeks it will become obvious that is has not diminished as they remove labour's biggest electoral asset
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    The worst possible scenario for the Brexit Revolutionary Party is them having a VONC and then Boris Johnson winning the vote. Then they’re deep into Lame Duck territory.

    It is also the most likely scenario.

    I have not changed my assessment:
    Boris Johnson will lead his party at the next general election.
    Boris Johnson will lead his party to defeat at the next general election.

    I disagree.
    There will be diehard Brexiteers who will fear for their project being 'indelibly stained'.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283
    Chances of VONC: 100%

    Chances of defeat at VONC: 63.5%
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    IanB2 said:

    BBC sources inside the Tories saying the leadership vote announcement is imminent.

    Link?
    Missing
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Sandpit said:

    The Theresa May confidence vote was 200 to 117 - at a time after she’d lost her Parliamentary majority, and had proven several times to be utterly unable to enact her flagship piece of legislation.

    I know it appears to be the contrarian view on here, but I still don’t think the rebels have 180 votes, even if they do have the 54 required for the challenge.

    I think there are four scenarios -

    1. No VoNC in 2022, which is still entirely possible, say 15%
    2. VoNC, but won convincingly by Boris, which is reckon is the most likely outcome, 55%.
    3. VoNC, which is won unconvincingly, which I would make a 25% chance.
    4. And then you have Boris losing a VoNC, which is reckon is just a 5% chance
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Thread:

    There is *still* a widespread but *mistaken* assumption that, should Johnson survive a vote of no confidence, he is safe for another year. Yet, thanks to those who sought to defenestrate his predecessor, we know that this is *not* in fact the case. Chapter and verse in this 🧵1/4

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1533702181249064960

    Gale said as much on R4.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    edited June 2022

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Did Sir Graham travel down to London yesterday, is any blockage at Watford Junction to be regarded as suspicious, or is he to announce from Altrincham?

    If he does, will Johnson be for Sale?
    All depends on the size of his Crewe.
    None, they're on strike this morning.
    At what point do the RMT realise, that most of the City is now set up to be able to work from home on strike days, and that genuine disruption to business is mostly limited to the coffee shops and paper sellers?
    I can understand why the workers want to strike at this time of extreme pressure on prices.

    But the timing of tis strike, with a rail system that needs to attract people back to work, is awful.

    And add in the way some of the RMT's leadership support pro-Russian separatists in the Ukrainian war, and the timing is really suspicious.

    I want a strong, vibrant public transport system in the UK, with rail as a major component. The RMT want to destroy the system - in the same way manner their leaders' mates have destroyed eastern Ukraine.
    This is getting a bit reds under the bed, unless you think the Kremlin thinks long-range missiles are shipped to Ukraine via Bank station.

    ETA the strike appears to be a continuation of the dispute over job cuts and pensions rather than wages.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tube-strike-begins-today-with-passengers-warned-stations-will-be-closed/ar-AAY7nL4
    It's not 'reds under the beds'. It's the way the strike appears sus because the union's leadership chose to publicly associate itself with a topic that had zero to do with its business - and 'chose' a side which has proven to be fairly evil - as any look at what happened in the separatist states, or in the last 100 days - shows.

    It makes the timing of this strike - which will cause the UK harm - really suspicious.
    This dispute has been rumbling on for months and there was a strike ballot last December, two months before Russia invaded Ukraine. What union would not oppose job losses and pension cuts? There is no obvious link to the war in Ukraine either in timing or effect.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/london-tube-strikes-2022-march-when-why-which-tfl-lines-affected-rmt-b984455.html (from March)
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215

    Thread:

    There is *still* a widespread but *mistaken* assumption that, should Johnson survive a vote of no confidence, he is safe for another year. Yet, thanks to those who sought to defenestrate his predecessor, we know that this is *not* in fact the case. Chapter and verse in this 🧵1/4

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1533702181249064960

    May resigned.

    He is safe unless he resigns or the 1922 committee change the rules mid-term (unlikely).
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    The worst possible scenario for the Brexit Revolutionary Party is them having a VONC and then Boris Johnson winning the vote. Then they’re deep into Lame Duck territory.

    It is also the most likely scenario.

    I have not changed my assessment:
    Boris Johnson will lead his party at the next general election.
    Boris Johnson will lead his party to defeat at the next general election.

    Good morning

    It does seem some of Boris's opponents are beginning to realise he may well be sacked and their response is he will survive and lead the party to defeat in 24

    The one certain thing about the conservative party is their desire for power and over the coming weeks this will be obvious that is has not diminished as they remove labour's biggest electoral asset
    May was worse than Cameron, Johnson was worse than anyone in modern history, quite possibly in all of history. Can the Tories find someone even more abysmal? Liz Truss would give it a go. Her apart, though, we may now be at rock bottom. However, beyond the attacks on democracy the next Tory leader still has to map out a path that keeps what are two very different parties together. That will take a hell of a lot of skill. Does any candidate posses it? I admit I know nothing about Penny Mordaunt, so maybe she is the one.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Never seen anything like the level of public anger over partygate. Tory MPs have spent a miserable weekend trying to defend the indefensible. Many have had enough.

    https://twitter.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1533702798034059264
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    I suspect that the RMT leadership have the same mindset as the NUM had under Scargill. They believe in their political views and don't understand others'. When you can make a case, the current circumstances are irrelevant.

    Arthur wasn't bothered that it was summer, the coal stocks were high, the UDM wouldn't fall in line, and Mrs Thatcher was spoiling for a fight. It's always time to fight the good fight for political leaders. The question is always "Will they come out?"

    From the point of view of the rank and file, strike action is often effective. But you have to trust your leaders.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Good morning. Racing into Westminster for a huge day. Told by three sources that a no confidence vote to be triggered imminently
    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1533705200107671553
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    The damaging thing about this letter for Boris Johnson is that it only fleetingly mentions partygate. Rather it’s an evisceration of the Prime Minister’s governing style and many of his policies, seen through a conservative lens.
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1533704691690876928
    https://twitter.com/Jesse_Norman/status/1533699235417403393
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Theresa May confidence vote was 200 to 117 - at a time after she’d lost her Parliamentary majority, and had proven several times to be utterly unable to enact her flagship piece of legislation.

    I know it appears to be the contrarian view on here, but I still don’t think the rebels have 180 votes, even if they do have the 54 required for the challenge.

    I think there are four scenarios -

    1. No VoNC in 2022, which is still entirely possible, say 15%
    2. VoNC, but won convincingly by Boris, which is reckon is the most likely outcome, 55%.
    3. VoNC, which is won unconvincingly, which I would make a 25% chance.
    4. And then you have Boris losing a VoNC, which is reckon is just a 5% chance
    So will you give me 10/1 on Boris losing a VONC before party conference ?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Can anyone argue with the letter from Jesse Norman , everything he says is true and the issues go well beyond partygate .

    As a Labour supporter I know Johnson going isn’t the best thing for their chances but if Johnson stays until the next GE how much more damage will he do to the country and to the office of PM.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Sandpit said:

    The Theresa May confidence vote was 200 to 117 - at a time after she’d lost her Parliamentary majority, and had proven several times to be utterly unable to enact her flagship piece of legislation.

    I know it appears to be the contrarian view on here, but I still don’t think the rebels have 180 votes, even if they do have the 54 required for the challenge.

    There does seem to be an element of projection in the predictions that Johnson is inevitably going to lose the VONC. The problem is still Brexit. The internal critics of Johnson, around whom in normal circumstances you might expect opposition to coalesce, are tainted by not being of the one true Brexit faith. This disrupts the normal process of creating confidence in an alternative future for the party.

    There is also still no other policy difference around which opposition to Johnson might form. If the only advantage of defenestrating Johnson is to replace him with a better person, rather than better policy, then that process is more fraught when it isn't obvious who the successor will be.

    It will be fascinating to see where the final tally ends up.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Sajid Javid says it’s “very possible” a confidence vote will be held in Boris Johnson imminently.

    Insists he will vote for the PM - but declines to rule out another tilt at the leadership if Boris is ousted #LBC

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1533705733765836800

    Aye, right...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Stocky said:

    Thread:

    There is *still* a widespread but *mistaken* assumption that, should Johnson survive a vote of no confidence, he is safe for another year. Yet, thanks to those who sought to defenestrate his predecessor, we know that this is *not* in fact the case. Chapter and verse in this 🧵1/4

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1533702181249064960

    May resigned.

    He is safe unless he resigns or the 1922 committee change the rules mid-term (unlikely).
    Two former 1922 Chairmen: 'If MPs believe that the 12-month rule is an impediment to their proper function and responsibilities for the leadership of their Party it is quite within their right to change these provisions.'

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1533702185271304195
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    For some Tory MPs, partygate just opens the door to wider concerns about everything from the NI protocol and the union to Rwanda, Channel 4, and “empty rhetoric” overtaking actual policy. Many complaints boil down to one core - it’s all “at odds with decent, proper conservatism”
    https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1533706339108675584
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Here we go. Broadcast spot up for Brady https://twitter.com/tamihoffman/status/1533706425691951104
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    nico679 said:

    Can anyone argue with the letter from Jesse Norman , everything he says is true and the issues go well beyond partygate .

    As a Labour supporter I know Johnson going isn’t the best thing for their chances but if Johnson stays until the next GE how much more damage will he do to the country and to the office of PM.

    Exactly how I feel. You cannot want the best for this country and want Boris Johnson to remain as Prime Minister. That applies whatever party you support.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Did Sir Graham travel down to London yesterday, is any blockage at Watford Junction to be regarded as suspicious, or is he to announce from Altrincham?

    If he does, will Johnson be for Sale?
    All depends on the size of his Crewe.
    None, they're on strike this morning.
    At what point do the RMT realise, that most of the City is now set up to be able to work from home on strike days, and that genuine disruption to business is mostly limited to the coffee shops and paper sellers?
    I can understand why the workers want to strike at this time of extreme pressure on prices.

    But the timing of tis strike, with a rail system that needs to attract people back to work, is awful.

    And add in the way some of the RMT's leadership support pro-Russian separatists in the Ukrainian war, and the timing is really suspicious.

    I want a strong, vibrant public transport system in the UK, with rail as a major component. The RMT want to destroy the system - in the same way manner their leaders' mates have destroyed eastern Ukraine.
    This is getting a bit reds under the bed, unless you think the Kremlin thinks long-range missiles are shipped to Ukraine via Bank station.

    ETA the strike appears to be a continuation of the dispute over job cuts and pensions rather than wages.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tube-strike-begins-today-with-passengers-warned-stations-will-be-closed/ar-AAY7nL4
    It's not 'reds under the beds'. It's the way the strike appears sus because the union's leadership chose to publicly associate itself with a topic that had zero to do with its business - and 'chose' a side which has proven to be fairly evil - as any look at what happened in the separatist states, or in the last 100 days - shows.

    It makes the timing of this strike - which will cause the UK harm - really suspicious.
    This dispute has been rumbling on for months and there was a strike ballot last December, two months before Russia invaded Ukraine. What union would not oppose job losses and pension cuts? There is no obvious link to the war in Ukraine either in timing or effect.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/london-tube-strikes-2022-march-when-why-which-tfl-lines-affected-rmt-b984455.html (from March)
    It just shows how we have regressed a half century. 10% inflation and "Enemies of the State" behind any strike. The Tories think we are soft in the head.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Just read that Jesse Norman letter. The Tories - and the country - need a lot more like him.

    BoZo expelled most of them...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    Scott_xP said:

    Sajid Javid says it’s “very possible” a confidence vote will be held in Boris Johnson imminently.

    Insists he will vote for the PM - but declines to rule out another tilt at the leadership if Boris is ousted #LBC

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1533705733765836800

    Aye, right...

    I've been betting on the basis the the vote, being secret, will involve a goodly chuck of the government payroll voting against him (but not admitting it). If I'm wrong then he may win the vote, probably narrowly.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Tory MPs will vote on the prime minister’s future this evening from 1800.

    The threshold has been reached to trigger a confidence ballot.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61701064
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    For the Smarkets VONC market:

    Margin of 100 or more either way = 230/129 (64%)
    Margin of 50 or more either way = 205/154 (57%)
    Closest = 180/179

    Don't know where the odds have gone, but if you don't think it close, either way, cover 100+.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    NEW: We can expect a vote of confidence in the Prime Minister to happen today

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/1533705693341093889
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    NEW: No confidence vote in Boris Johnson’s leadership among Conservative MPs to be held *today*. https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1533707735199584259/photo/1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    BBC political editor saying the vote may happen today
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Theresa May confidence vote was 200 to 117 - at a time after she’d lost her Parliamentary majority, and had proven several times to be utterly unable to enact her flagship piece of legislation.

    I know it appears to be the contrarian view on here, but I still don’t think the rebels have 180 votes, even if they do have the 54 required for the challenge.

    I think there are four scenarios -

    1. No VoNC in 2022, which is still entirely possible, say 15%
    2. VoNC, but won convincingly by Boris, which is reckon is the most likely outcome, 55%.
    3. VoNC, which is won unconvincingly, which I would make a 25% chance.
    4. And then you have Boris losing a VoNC, which is reckon is just a 5% chance
    1 has gone already...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Did Sir Graham travel down to London yesterday, is any blockage at Watford Junction to be regarded as suspicious, or is he to announce from Altrincham?

    If he does, will Johnson be for Sale?
    All depends on the size of his Crewe.
    None, they're on strike this morning.
    At what point do the RMT realise, that most of the City is now set up to be able to work from home on strike days, and that genuine disruption to business is mostly limited to the coffee shops and paper sellers?
    I can understand why the workers want to strike at this time of extreme pressure on prices.

    But the timing of tis strike, with a rail system that needs to attract people back to work, is awful.

    And add in the way some of the RMT's leadership support pro-Russian separatists in the Ukrainian war, and the timing is really suspicious.

    I want a strong, vibrant public transport system in the UK, with rail as a major component. The RMT want to destroy the system - in the same way manner their leaders' mates have destroyed eastern Ukraine.
    This is getting a bit reds under the bed, unless you think the Kremlin thinks long-range missiles are shipped to Ukraine via Bank station.

    ETA the strike appears to be a continuation of the dispute over job cuts and pensions rather than wages.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tube-strike-begins-today-with-passengers-warned-stations-will-be-closed/ar-AAY7nL4
    It's not 'reds under the beds'. It's the way the strike appears sus because the union's leadership chose to publicly associate itself with a topic that had zero to do with its business - and 'chose' a side which has proven to be fairly evil - as any look at what happened in the separatist states, or in the last 100 days - shows.

    It makes the timing of this strike - which will cause the UK harm - really suspicious.
    This dispute has been rumbling on for months and there was a strike ballot last December, two months before Russia invaded Ukraine. What union would not oppose job losses and pension cuts? There is no obvious link to the war in Ukraine either in timing or effect.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/london-tube-strikes-2022-march-when-why-which-tfl-lines-affected-rmt-b984455.html (from March)
    It just shows how we have regressed a half century. 10% inflation and "Enemies of the State" behind any strike. The Tories think we are soft in the head.
    Mind, quite a few PBers obviously have lentil soup for brains under that criterion.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    "Its on. Like fat Pat's thong"
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Theresa May confidence vote was 200 to 117 - at a time after she’d lost her Parliamentary majority, and had proven several times to be utterly unable to enact her flagship piece of legislation.

    I know it appears to be the contrarian view on here, but I still don’t think the rebels have 180 votes, even if they do have the 54 required for the challenge.

    I think there are four scenarios -

    1. No VoNC in 2022, which is still entirely possible, say 15%
    2. VoNC, but won convincingly by Boris, which is reckon is the most likely outcome, 55%.
    3. VoNC, which is won unconvincingly, which I would make a 25% chance.
    4. And then you have Boris losing a VoNC, which is reckon is just a 5% chance
    Big difference of opinion then! I'd go 0/10/25/65
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    edited June 2022
    Brady confirms the threshold has been reached

    Vote will be this evening/
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Leon said:

    I think he will go simply because… I think he should go


    That is to say: I like - or liked - Boris. I voted Leave. I am grateful for him delivering Brexit and saving us from a terrible 2nd vote. I am grateful for him crushing Corbyn forever. I had genuine hopes - however foolish - that he would be a good if not great PM. And I’ve resisted the clamour for his departure until now. I’m still suspicious of it’s motivations

    But this Partygate stuff is not going away. The weekend showed it. He has no new ideas: the Norman letter is painfully accurate

    There is no purpose served in him staying. So I believe he should go, and if he’s lost relatively loyal people like me then 🤷‍♂️

    You very very very strongly objected to the 2nd vote (fair enough) but don't object to him stretching the constitution to breaking point and constantly lying (all before partygate)?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Looks like it’s on.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I suspect the swift poll does Johnson no favours - limited time to work on the waverers.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565
    Threshold not reached but "exceeded"......
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    To be dispatched with dispatch.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    I still can’t see how Johnson survives a narrow victory. He needs to win convincingly
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215

    Threshold not reached but "exceeded"......
    Will we get to know the actual number?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Does a vote today help Johnson? It seems to me that it probably does as it gives MPs less opportunity to talk to each other and for potential replacements to phone around.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Theresa May confidence vote was 200 to 117 - at a time after she’d lost her Parliamentary majority, and had proven several times to be utterly unable to enact her flagship piece of legislation.

    I know it appears to be the contrarian view on here, but I still don’t think the rebels have 180 votes, even if they do have the 54 required for the challenge.

    I think there are four scenarios -

    1. No VoNC in 2022, which is still entirely possible, say 15%
    2. VoNC, but won convincingly by Boris, which is reckon is the most likely outcome, 55%.
    3. VoNC, which is won unconvincingly, which I would make a 25% chance.
    4. And then you have Boris losing a VoNC, which is reckon is just a 5% chance
    Interesting. I have no idea so I wonder why you think 2) and 4)? They seem both high and low.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Theresa May confidence vote was 200 to 117 - at a time after she’d lost her Parliamentary majority, and had proven several times to be utterly unable to enact her flagship piece of legislation.

    I know it appears to be the contrarian view on here, but I still don’t think the rebels have 180 votes, even if they do have the 54 required for the challenge.

    I think there are four scenarios -

    1. No VoNC in 2022, which is still entirely possible, say 15%
    2. VoNC, but won convincingly by Boris, which is reckon is the most likely outcome, 55%.
    3. VoNC, which is won unconvincingly, which I would make a 25% chance.
    4. And then you have Boris losing a VoNC, which is reckon is just a 5% chance
    1 has gone already...
    With 2 soon to follow.....

    See if anybody goes on the media saying Boris must remain as PM (other than Nadine, natch).
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,789
    If you're so inclined, 8.8 to lay Starmer as next PM on Betfair.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW: No confidence vote in Boris Johnson’s leadership among Conservative MPs to be held *today*. https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1533707735199584259/photo/1

    Sir Graham Brady MP says: "The threshold of 15% of the parliamentary party seeking a vote of confidence in the leader of the Conservative Party has been exceeded.

    "In accordance with the rules, a ballot will be held between 18:00 and 20:00 today MONDAY 6th JUNE - details to be confirmed.

    "The votes will be counted immediately afterwards. An announcement will be made at a time to be advised. Arrangements for the anno will be released later today."
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215

    Threshold not reached but "exceeded"......
    I know you think he'll lose it but how certain are you? In percentage terms?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Does a vote today help Johnson? It seems to me that it probably does as it gives MPs less opportunity to talk to each other and for potential replacements to phone around.

    Bit naive to assume they don’t have lots of WhatsApp etc going on.
    BBC now linking the boos on Friday to the vote...
    Top trolling.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
    NEW: Brady spoke to PM last night...

    PM to write to Tory MPs to warn contest would be "destructive, decisive and distracting."

    No10 will try spin this as chance to draw line under months of frenzy... point to 14m voters V 15% of MPs.. looking for "clean and decisive" result !


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1533709037488971776
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,523
    FPT
    Taz said:

    stodge said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re the Cost of Living, round me the price of petrol has shot up. It is now 20 pence higher than the price it dropped to after Sunak's bung.

    Really painful.

    Even if the PM is replaced, what does the new PM say or do about this? What would Labour say or do?

    At our local petrol station, diesel had been significantly more expensive than petrol, but I noticed that today they were the same price. Because petrol had risen, not that diesel had fallen.
    Yes, during my fortnight away, petrol at my local Tesco's had risen from 162.9p to 171.9p per litre. Diesel at 183.9p per litre. Extraordinary prices - I'd love to see the breakdown of the cost of a litre between the oil company, the refinery, the transport, fuel duty etc to see where (if anywhere) the profit is being made.

    I can't believe this isn't going to have an impact through the economy going forward. The quadrupling of oil prices in 1973-74 was a severe shock - this not on the same scale but still considerable.
    It’s going to have a colossal impact and the rise in oil prices has not stopped yet.

    I’d be interested in what @Richard_Tyndall thinks on this and where the bottlenecks are. Refining capacity ? Production capacity ? Also more importantly what can be done to reduce the price per barrel.

    Sadly I would suggest nothing.

    All the things you mention are bottlenecks in the system but the basic issue is that we need to either produce more oil or reduce our need for it. Yes other countries can pump a bit more but we can't. The low oil prices of the last 5 years and the actions of the Government to sideline and marginalize hydrocarbon exploration and development in the UK mean there is no ability of companies to ramp up production in the foreseeable future.

    We are almost entirely in the hands of OPEC at the moment and without some very significant geopolitical changes I don't see the price dropping significantly any time soon.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Can I be first to link it to D-Day for Boris?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    Smarkets: 1.83 Wins, 2.04 Loses
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    🍿 😀
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Brady has done Johnson a huge favour here. Not sure he has done much to help the Conservative party or the country, though.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited June 2022

    Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
    NEW: Brady spoke to PM last night...

    PM to write to Tory MPs to warn contest would be "destructive, decisive and distracting."

    No10 will try spin this as chance to draw line under months of frenzy... point to 14m voters V 15% of MPs.. looking for "clean and decisive" result !


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1533709037488971776

    Johnson’s continued leadership is exactly that “ destructive , decisively (bad) and distracting “.
  • JonWCJonWC Posts: 288
    Now that Operation Thorpe Big Dog is confirmed in full swing it must be the 10th time ministers have been dragged onto the airwaves to say something that was proven untrue within days.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    I still can’t see how Johnson survives a narrow victory. He needs to win convincingly

    I disagree. For anyone else I would agree.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    I've laid Smarkets Johnson Win by 0 - 50 @ 3.8
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Does a vote today help Johnson? It seems to me that it probably does as it gives MPs less opportunity to talk to each other and for potential replacements to phone around.

    Today is really bad news for Johnson. His MPs have been at Jubly events for a double weekend and have been bagged up and down the country by constituents who have told them in no uncertain terms what needs to happen.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,565
    Stocky said:

    Threshold not reached but "exceeded"......
    I know you think he'll lose it but how certain are you? In percentage terms?
    I just cannot see how the majority of Conservative MPs can see how Boris can turn this around. I knew in February he was done. The last 72 hours have been utterly toxic. It just has to be better to give someone else a go. Whoever that might be.

    I think Boris loses by 40-50. Possibly more.

    He could still pull off a stay of execution by announcing that he will resign in spring 2023, plenty of time to put a new PM in place by the 2023 Conference after a lengthy hustings. But even then - why should the Party wait that long, losing seats and councillors aplenty in the meantime?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Aren't there going to be some tory MPs who hadn't planned to be back today after the long weekend?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    The Jesse Norman letter deserves its own thread. He nails it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    A reminder that Theresa May lasted as Prime Minister for 1,106 days.

    Boris Johnson is currently on 1,048.


    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1533709665040846848
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    kjh said:

    I still can’t see how Johnson survives a narrow victory. He needs to win convincingly

    I disagree. For anyone else I would agree.
    I do see what you mean.. ah well. Here goes months of horrendous party infighting
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited June 2022

    Harry Cole @MrHarryCole
    NEW: Brady spoke to PM last night...

    PM to write to Tory MPs to warn contest would be "destructive, decisive and distracting."

    No10 will try spin this as chance to draw line under months of frenzy... point to 14m voters V 15% of MPs.. looking for "clean and decisive" result !


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1533709037488971776

    And how many of those 14m would still vote for Johnson ?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215

    Stocky said:

    Threshold not reached but "exceeded"......
    I know you think he'll lose it but how certain are you? In percentage terms?
    I just cannot see how the majority of Conservative MPs can see how Boris can turn this around. I knew in February he was done. The last 72 hours have been utterly toxic. It just has to be better to give someone else a go. Whoever that might be.

    I think Boris loses by 40-50. Possibly more.

    He could still pull off a stay of execution by announcing that he will resign in spring 2023, plenty of time to put a new PM in place by the 2023 Conference after a lengthy hustings. But even then - why should the Party wait that long, losing seats and councillors aplenty in the meantime?
    If he promises to resign in spring 2023 this would only be a promise and I doubt whether they will believe him. They shouldn't believe him.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    kjh said:

    I still can’t see how Johnson survives a narrow victory. He needs to win convincingly

    I disagree. For anyone else I would agree.
    The Bullingdon Barnacle needs the Crowbar of Confidence to shift him.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862

    Can I just quietly say I did predict it would happen today for a while now and I am so pleased to have been vindicated

    Congratulations on such a rare achievement! :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,283

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Theresa May confidence vote was 200 to 117 - at a time after she’d lost her Parliamentary majority, and had proven several times to be utterly unable to enact her flagship piece of legislation.

    I know it appears to be the contrarian view on here, but I still don’t think the rebels have 180 votes, even if they do have the 54 required for the challenge.

    I think there are four scenarios -

    1. No VoNC in 2022, which is still entirely possible, say 15%
    2. VoNC, but won convincingly by Boris, which is reckon is the most likely outcome, 55%.
    3. VoNC, which is won unconvincingly, which I would make a 25% chance.
    4. And then you have Boris losing a VoNC, which is reckon is just a 5% chance
    1 has gone already...
    Yes, a singularly poor prediction
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    I do see what you mean.. ah well. Here goes months of horrendous party infighting

    BoZo narrowly survives.

    Tories humiliated in both by elections.

    Ministerial resignations followed by a brutal reshuffle.

    Strap in :)
  • I think there is little chance he loses
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Thank goodness it isn't an STV election, or we'd be waiting until Friday for a result.

    Come on Tories, show you do have some integrity and give the lying oaf the boot.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Stocky said:

    Smarkets: 1.83 Wins, 2.04 Loses

    Betfair 2.2 for Johnson not to be PM by party conference.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    Javid's self immolating on radio 4
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215

    Aren't there going to be some tory MPs who hadn't planned to be back today after the long weekend?

    Good point. They have to attend to vote is my understanding.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    A reminder that Theresa May lasted as Prime Minister for 1,106 days.

    Boris Johnson is currently on 1,048.


    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1533709665040846848

    Has he beaten Brown yet, or does he need to survive the week?
This discussion has been closed.