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Graham Brady – the man to whom the VONC letters are sent – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 13 in General
imageGraham Brady – the man to whom the VONC letters are sent – politicalbetting.com

There is only one UK political betting story at the moment and that is whether Johnson is going to face a vote of no confidence amongst Conservative MPs. If 54 of them send letters to Graham Brady, the 1922 Committee Chair, he will initiate the ballot at Westminster amongst the parliamentary party. If Johnson fails to win a simple majority in that secret ballot he is is out. This could all be over within 24 hours.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,216
    Test
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 2,922
    edited June 3
    Second like Jeremy Hunt in the upcoming leadership contest.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,759
    - ”There is only one UK political betting story at the moment and that is whether Johnson is going to face a vote of no confidence amongst Conservative MPs.”

    There is another, and that is whether or not Johnson wins the VONC. As witnessed by the previous thread.

    Fascinatingly, another state in the news is facing an imminent and significant VONC. Yesterday, a motion was tabled in parliament against Morgan Johansson, Sweden’s justice minister. It immediately gained support from all 4 parties on the centre-right-far right bloc, making the result dependent on how an Independent MP and/or the Centre Party votes. So what? one might ask. Well, the fact is that the prime minister Magdalena Andersson will resign if the VONC in Johansson wins.

    What worries the Establishment is that the Independent MP is a leftist Kurd, profoundly unhappy with the Swedish Government desperately sooking up to Turkey in a probably forlorn attempt to obtain NATO membership. She has indicated she will support the VONC based not upon Johansson’s track record (which is dire), but purely on the Swedish government’s Turkey/Kurdistan moves.

    Very, very finely balanced, but we may well be facing yet another political crisis at a worrying time. The GE is in September anyway, but the minority government might not make it that long.

    Oddly, the Social Democrats also hit a modern polling high yesterday: 33%. Way ahead of the Moderates and Sweden Democrats. The Liberals and Greens are way below the 4% threshold.
  • BJTBJT Posts: 14
    "PBers will get bored reading about Mr. Brady."

    Maybe we already are. (And I will be tactically voting against this Government at the next election anyway)
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    BJT said:

    "PBers will get bored reading about Mr. Brady."

    Maybe we already are. (And I will be tactically voting against this Government at the next election anyway)

    On an objective level I'm loving it.

    This is what political watching is all about: huge fun!

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    p.s. morning all. I was in London yesterday and had a fantastic view of the flypast: right over my head. I'm not really a monarchist but I did find it rather moving.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,821
    Good morning and happy platinum jubilee bank holiday.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,996
    Sir Graham Brady.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,609
    edited June 3
    Heathener said:

    p.s. morning all. I was in London yesterday and had a fantastic view of the flypast: right over my head. I'm not really a monarchist but I did find it rather moving.

    We were hoping to get the flypast over our house. Sadly we just got the helicopters, but that was quite a sight in itself, although our dog wasn't so impressed and tried to scare them off.

    Trooping the colour was very, very impressive.

    Went to a do after that and at least one more do planned on Sunday and possibly Saturday so it's turning out to be an enjoyable event.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,851
    Hunt wins if all the other candidates blow up, or its a coronation - otherwise I think he, unfairly IMHO, loses the membership vote. Tom Tugendhat is ridiculously short and the 2022 Rory Stewart.

    Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss and Ben Wallace are who I'm watching for at the moment. Nadhim Zahawi is a longshot.

    Forget Rishi Sunak.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,821

    Hunt wins if all the other candidates blow up, or its a coronation - otherwise I think he, unfairly IMHO, loses the membership vote. Tom Tugendhat is ridiculously short and the 2022 Rory Stewart.

    Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss and Ben Wallace are who I'm watching for at the moment. Nadhim Zahawi is a longshot.

    Forget Rishi Sunak.

    I'm not convinced we can forget Rishi Sunak. He is by far the most professional and charismatic of those you name, and that will become obvious in televised hustings.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    edited June 3

    Hunt wins if all the other candidates blow up, or its a coronation - otherwise I think he, unfairly IMHO, loses the membership vote. Tom Tugendhat is ridiculously short and the 2022 Rory Stewart.

    Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss and Ben Wallace are who I'm watching for at the moment. Nadhim Zahawi is a longshot.

    Forget Rishi Sunak.

    I'm not convinced we can forget Rishi Sunak. He is by far the most professional and charismatic of those you name, and that will become obvious in televised hustings.
    Penny Mordaunt would wipe the floor with him imho DJL. She's by far the most charistmatic and interesting, again in my opinion.

    She won't get it I don't think because the Conservatives will need a decade out of power before they start coming to their senses about what wins elections. They have been blinded by Boris' win in 2019, ignoring how toxically unelectable Jeremy Corbyn was.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,851

    Hunt wins if all the other candidates blow up, or its a coronation - otherwise I think he, unfairly IMHO, loses the membership vote. Tom Tugendhat is ridiculously short and the 2022 Rory Stewart.

    Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss and Ben Wallace are who I'm watching for at the moment. Nadhim Zahawi is a longshot.

    Forget Rishi Sunak.

    I'm not convinced we can forget Rishi Sunak. He is by far the most professional and charismatic of those you name, and that will become obvious in televised hustings.
    I wouldn't back him at 40/1.

    He's politically inept, at the bottom of Tory party favourability ratings and was more unpopular than Boris in the most recent polling.

    He's holed beneath the waterline.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,070
    Latest @YouGov "Brexit: Right or Wrong" tracker data is out. Here's what the trend looks like. Wrong now 12 points ahead of Right. https://twitter.com/simonjhix/status/1532340342728556544/photo/1
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,375

    Hunt wins if all the other candidates blow up, or its a coronation - otherwise I think he, unfairly IMHO, loses the membership vote. Tom Tugendhat is ridiculously short and the 2022 Rory Stewart.

    Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss and Ben Wallace are who I'm watching for at the moment. Nadhim Zahawi is a longshot.

    Forget Rishi Sunak.

    I'm not convinced we can forget Rishi Sunak. He is by far the most professional and charismatic of those you name, and that will become obvious in televised hustings.
    I wouldn't back him at 40/1.

    He's politically inept, at the bottom of Tory party favourability ratings and was more unpopular than Boris in the most recent polling.

    He's holed beneath the waterline.
    Step forward Jim Hacker (ie Ben Wallace)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,821
    GB News reports the stories that matter.

    M&S slammed by angry customers for Jubilee sandwich with full boiled egg inside
    https://www.gbnews.uk/news/ms-slammed-by-angry-customers-for-jubilee-sandwich-with-full-boiled-egg-inside/309148
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    Penny Mordaunt is ridiculously capable:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqqqWAI-6QQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGqikf5Neas

    That last one is so funny.

    She's lost in the Conservative Party. Wish she would come over.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,399
    The reason Sunak cannot completely be dismissed is the same reason Boris couldn't completely be dismissed in 2018. The rules of the contest are such that if he stands and if he retains even a modest base of support within the parliamentary party, it will propel him through the early rounds. Unless you think the prior good disposition of MPs towards Sunak has completely evaporated, if he stands and MPs don't fancy the alternatives enough to spin off towards them, he is guaranteed a last 4 place with 20% of MPs supporting, and likely 16-17% is enough.

    And he, anyone, is guaranteed to go to the members of he transfers in to get 33% of the vote in the final round, with it increasingly likely from 25% MP support upwards.

    And just as I judged Boris's support base amongst MPs to be enough in 2019, I feel Sunak once the early rounds announce his presence, has a decent crack this time around.

    I think he's as likely to fall in the later voting rounds as to get through, but sneaking in to the member ballot is by no means impossible for him dependent on how other favoured candidates perform.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,484
    Sandpit said:

    Sir Graham Brady.

    Just barely though. And I'd abolish the whole medieval nonsense.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,609
    @Casino_Royale may I offer a hand of reconciliation?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,484

    GB News reports the stories that matter.

    M&S slammed by angry customers for Jubilee sandwich with full boiled egg inside
    https://www.gbnews.uk/news/ms-slammed-by-angry-customers-for-jubilee-sandwich-with-full-boiled-egg-inside/309148

    When you read the piece you realise its a classic piece of GBeebies clickbait. "See, even that uppity LD guy has read our piece!" "Slammed by angry customers" says the headline of a story that notes the butty got mixed reviews and some people love it.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    Pro_Rata and DJL point below to something that it's so easy to forget. This isn't about who will make the best Prime Minister. It's not about will be best to lead this country out of the mire. This isn't about who can be most trusted. Nor even about who can most effectively draw a line under this Caligula-era.

    It's about:

    1. Who Cons MPs prefer to shortlist and THEN

    2. Who the Membership most like


    Whilst I'm prepared to accept that the former are a bit more in touch with ordinary voters and I have very little faith that the latter are.

    This makes betting very difficult. It's not like most other markets. We're betting on a niche point of view which is not necessarily in sync with the rest of the nation.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,483
    PBers will never get bored reading about The Brady Bunch of letters.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,484
    Meanwhile at the UN https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/03/turkey-changes-name-to-turkiye-as-other-name-is-for-the-birds

    "Bonzo idea" says Number 10, and sends instructions that the UK be renamed Boris Island, to better reflect the ego of its Prime Minister who insists everything he's involved in is named after him (with the exception of his discarded children).
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,484
    Heathener said:

    Pro_Rata and DJL point below to something that it's so easy to forget. This isn't about who will make the best Prime Minister. It's not about will be best to lead this country out of the mire. This isn't about who can be most trusted. Nor even about who can most effectively draw a line under this Caligula-era.

    It's about:

    1. Who Cons MPs prefer to shortlist and THEN

    2. Who the Membership most like


    Whilst I'm prepared to accept that the former are a bit more in touch with ordinary voters and I have very little faith that the latter are.

    This makes betting very difficult. It's not like most other markets. We're betting on a niche point of view which is not necessarily in sync with the rest of the nation.

    Indeed. So the question isn't "who can win the next election" and is instead "who do people even more right wing than HY fancy for the job"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,305

    Hunt wins if all the other candidates blow up, or its a coronation - otherwise I think he, unfairly IMHO, loses the membership vote. Tom Tugendhat is ridiculously short and the 2022 Rory Stewart.

    Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss and Ben Wallace are who I'm watching for at the moment. Nadhim Zahawi is a longshot.

    Forget Rishi Sunak.

    I suspect Liz Truss doesn't get past the membership. Unless it is her v Hunt.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,897

    GB News reports the stories that matter.

    M&S slammed by angry customers for Jubilee sandwich with full boiled egg inside
    https://www.gbnews.uk/news/ms-slammed-by-angry-customers-for-jubilee-sandwich-with-full-boiled-egg-inside/309148

    Judging from the picture, it doesn’t seem as if that should have come as a total surprise to anyone who bought one.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    Caligula, by the way, lasted just 3 years and 4 months before being assassinated by his own guard.

    He presided over a massive financial crisis and food shortages. He indulged in sex with other men's wives, which he bragged about, and turned D̶o̶w̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶S̶t̶ the palace into a drunken brothel.

    And he thought he was divine

    ...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831
    Heathener said:

    BJT said:

    "PBers will get bored reading about Mr. Brady."

    Maybe we already are. (And I will be tactically voting against this Government at the next election anyway)

    On an objective level I'm loving it.

    This is what political watching is all about: huge fun!

    Holy crap, get a life. I would rather have my nails pulled out with pliars.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831
    Sandpit said:

    Sir Graham Brady.

    Just another Tory tosser.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,609

    GB News reports the stories that matter.

    M&S slammed by angry customers for Jubilee sandwich with full boiled egg inside
    https://www.gbnews.uk/news/ms-slammed-by-angry-customers-for-jubilee-sandwich-with-full-boiled-egg-inside/309148

    Judging from the picture, it doesn’t seem as if that should have come as a total surprise to anyone who bought one.
    I bought a Gala pie with the egg missing. Now I know why.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,169
    Good morning to everyone. Malcolm I see you're not very happy this morning!

    Was sorry to read about Mr Jessops blue tits yesterday but, as he posted, that's what happens in nature!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,305
    Heathener said:

    Hunt wins if all the other candidates blow up, or its a coronation - otherwise I think he, unfairly IMHO, loses the membership vote. Tom Tugendhat is ridiculously short and the 2022 Rory Stewart.

    Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss and Ben Wallace are who I'm watching for at the moment. Nadhim Zahawi is a longshot.

    Forget Rishi Sunak.

    I'm not convinced we can forget Rishi Sunak. He is by far the most professional and charismatic of those you name, and that will become obvious in televised hustings.
    Penny Mordaunt would wipe the floor with him imho DJL. She's by far the most charistmatic and interesting, again in my opinion.

    She won't get it I don't think because the Conservatives will need a decade out of power before they start coming to their senses about what wins elections. They have been blinded by Boris' win in 2019, ignoring how toxically unelectable Jeremy Corbyn was.
    If anyone can clean the Augean stables, tiz she.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,006

    Hunt wins if all the other candidates blow up, or its a coronation - otherwise I think he, unfairly IMHO, loses the membership vote. Tom Tugendhat is ridiculously short and the 2022 Rory Stewart.

    Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss and Ben Wallace are who I'm watching for at the moment. Nadhim Zahawi is a longshot.

    Forget Rishi Sunak.

    I suspect Liz Truss doesn't get past the membership. Unless it is her v Hunt.
    Why not?

    She's a complete lightweight who will likely be a very bad PM, but she will tell the membership what they want to hear.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,041
    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    BJT said:

    "PBers will get bored reading about Mr. Brady."

    Maybe we already are. (And I will be tactically voting against this Government at the next election anyway)

    On an objective level I'm loving it.

    This is what political watching is all about: huge fun!

    Holy crap, get a life. I would rather have my nails pulled out with pliars.
    Good morning Malc. Hope all is well with you and yours and the weather is good.

    That comment of yours did make me chuckle.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,041

    Heathener said:

    Caligula, by the way, lasted just 3 years and 4 months before being assassinated by his own guard.

    He presided over a massive financial crisis and food shortages. He indulged in sex with other men's wives, which he bragged about, and turned D̶o̶w̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶S̶t̶ the palace into a drunken brothel.

    And he thought he was divine

    ...

    And he made Nadine Dorries culture secretary.
    As long as he and she stick around to reform the funding of the BBC that’s fine by me.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    edited June 3
    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    Caligula, by the way, lasted just 3 years and 4 months before being assassinated by his own guard.

    He presided over a massive financial crisis and food shortages. He indulged in sex with other men's wives, which he bragged about, and turned D̶o̶w̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶S̶t̶ the palace into a drunken brothel.

    And he thought he was divine

    ...

    And he made Nadine Dorries culture secretary.
    As long as he and she stick around to reform the funding of the BBC that’s fine by me.
    That's the only thing which matters to this country right now? I mean, there's perspective and then there's obsessive batshit crazy.

    The BBC funding will inevitably change no matter who is in charge from whatever politics. It's a commercial and contemporary trend that not even something as anachronistic as the licence fee can resist.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,444
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Graham Brady.

    Just another Tory tosser.
    'Sir Graham Brady MP' does sound alarmingly similar to a Viz character ...
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,647
    Heathener said:

    p.s. morning all. I was in London yesterday and had a fantastic view of the flypast: right over my head. I'm not really a monarchist but I did find it rather moving.

    We got a formation of jets around lunchtime, a Hurricane (repeatedly), and some sort of small WW2 fighter with Luftwaffe markings that everyone assured me was a Bf 109, but looked more like an FW 190 to me.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831

    Good morning to everyone. Malcolm I see you're not very happy this morning!

    Was sorry to read about Mr Jessops blue tits yesterday but, as he posted, that's what happens in nature!

    Morning OKC, I am indeed happy but when I read the drivel that someone is salivating about some tosspot Tory and whether he has had some cowardly unprincipled wasters send him a letter about whether to chuck out an out and out crook then I get annoyed. Tories are an abomonation, unprincipled spineless lickspittles.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,444
    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    BJT said:

    "PBers will get bored reading about Mr. Brady."

    Maybe we already are. (And I will be tactically voting against this Government at the next election anyway)

    On an objective level I'm loving it.

    This is what political watching is all about: huge fun!

    Holy crap, get a life. I would rather have my nails pulled out with pliars.
    Morning, Malky. A coolish haar off the North Sea this morning over here, but high up, so quite dull so far if dry. Looks as if you have no need to water your garden, though.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    BJT said:

    "PBers will get bored reading about Mr. Brady."

    Maybe we already are. (And I will be tactically voting against this Government at the next election anyway)

    On an objective level I'm loving it.

    This is what political watching is all about: huge fun!

    Holy crap, get a life. I would rather have my nails pulled out with pliars.
    Good morning Malc. Hope all is well with you and yours and the weather is good.

    That comment of yours did make me chuckle.
    Morning Taz, weather a bit grey today and may see some rain I think. I am halfway through extending borders in garden so hoping it hold off. Lovely yesterday and spent most of day in the garden and managed to avoid almost all the tosh and bollox of the mafia jamboree.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,647

    GB News reports the stories that matter.

    M&S slammed by angry customers for Jubilee sandwich with full boiled egg inside
    https://www.gbnews.uk/news/ms-slammed-by-angry-customers-for-jubilee-sandwich-with-full-boiled-egg-inside/309148

    When you read the piece you realise its a classic piece of GBeebies clickbait. "See, even that uppity LD guy has read our piece!" "Slammed by angry customers" says the headline of a story that notes the butty got mixed reviews and some people love it.
    "It *was* slammed by the angry ones. Of course we only found 3 of those and everyone else didn't care one way or the other."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,169
    edited June 3
    Worldle less straightforward this morning, but I do recall being told on a visit to the country in 1985 that on the map it looked (vaguely) like a lion.

    Of course, at the time it was more like USSR's poodle!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831

    GB News reports the stories that matter.

    M&S slammed by angry customers for Jubilee sandwich with full boiled egg inside
    https://www.gbnews.uk/news/ms-slammed-by-angry-customers-for-jubilee-sandwich-with-full-boiled-egg-inside/309148

    Judging from the picture, it doesn’t seem as if that should have come as a total surprise to anyone who bought one.
    I almost bought one the other day but went with pastrami.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156

    Good morning to everyone. Malcolm I see you're not very happy this morning!

    Was sorry to read about Mr Jessops blue tits yesterday but, as he posted, that's what happens in nature!

    Can you fill me in OKC? I was up in town all day.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831

    Hunt wins if all the other candidates blow up, or its a coronation - otherwise I think he, unfairly IMHO, loses the membership vote. Tom Tugendhat is ridiculously short and the 2022 Rory Stewart.

    Penny Mordaunt, Liz Truss and Ben Wallace are who I'm watching for at the moment. Nadhim Zahawi is a longshot.

    Forget Rishi Sunak.

    I suspect Liz Truss doesn't get past the membership. Unless it is her v Hunt.
    The only thing she needs passing is the u-bend.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,281
    Does anybody check whether Mr Brady actually gets 54 letters? I mean he could just get the one or none but decide to call a VoNC anyway.

    Or is this another "We Assume He's a Good Chap" convention?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    If Malcolm doesn't like the shenanigans of a leadership challenge and VONC then I am sorry.

    For most of us who enjoy politics and political betting, this is the equivalent of the FA Cup Final. It's not quite a General Election (= Champions League or World Cup) but it is great fun. It's not often a PM is challenged and potentially deposed, even with the Conservative Party.

    p.s. Malc may be sore after Ukraine's triumph at Hampden Park?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,444
    mwadams said:

    Heathener said:

    p.s. morning all. I was in London yesterday and had a fantastic view of the flypast: right over my head. I'm not really a monarchist but I did find it rather moving.

    We got a formation of jets around lunchtime, a Hurricane (repeatedly), and some sort of small WW2 fighter with Luftwaffe markings that everyone assured me was a Bf 109, but looked more like an FW 190 to me.
    I wondered, could it be a Bf.108? Civilian type plane that is often used as a poor man's 109 for air shows and even crap films. Often dressed up in Luftwaffe colours and markings, though that could be authentic as quite a few did serve under RM Goering of course. Slightly blunter cowling and wingtips than a 109 though the cockpit isn't quite like a 190.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,112
    Mildly illuminating poll on Eastern European attitudes to the war - everyone blames Russia more than other causes, but several have substantial minorities blaming the West and/or Ukraine:

    https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/bulgarians-hungarians-slovaks-still-do-not-blame-putin-for-ukraine-war/

    On the whole, Ukraine will be pleased at the unanimous majority view, but the figures help explain some of the nuances in attitudes. Each country has different historical backgrounds, of course. Hungary has its own autocratic PM (Orban); Bulgaria is traditionally pro-Russian ("They saved us from the Turks"), the Baltic States have Russian-speaking minorities, some of whom feel discriminated against. By contrast, Poland has always been very Russosceptic and Czechia is the much more Western-oriented part of former Czechoslovakia.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    BJT said:

    "PBers will get bored reading about Mr. Brady."

    Maybe we already are. (And I will be tactically voting against this Government at the next election anyway)

    On an objective level I'm loving it.

    This is what political watching is all about: huge fun!

    Holy crap, get a life. I would rather have my nails pulled out with pliars.
    Good morning Malc. Hope all is well with you and yours and the weather is good.

    That comment of yours did make me chuckle.
    Morning Taz, weather a bit grey today and may see some rain I think. I am halfway through extending borders in garden so hoping it hold off. Lovely yesterday and spent most of day in the garden and managed to avoid almost all the tosh and bollox of the mafia jamboree.
    PS Taz, good morning to you and hope you and family are enjoying the long weekend.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,821
    mwadams said:

    Heathener said:

    p.s. morning all. I was in London yesterday and had a fantastic view of the flypast: right over my head. I'm not really a monarchist but I did find it rather moving.

    We got a formation of jets around lunchtime, a Hurricane (repeatedly), and some sort of small WW2 fighter with Luftwaffe markings that everyone assured me was a Bf 109, but looked more like an FW 190 to me.
    But these Fockers were Messerschmitts.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Yf5B6GbYk
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831
    Heathener said:

    If Malcolm doesn't like the shenanigans of a leadership challenge and VONC then I am sorry.

    For most of us who enjoy politics and political betting, this is the equivalent of the FA Cup Final. It's not quite a General Election (= Champions League or World Cup) but it is great fun. It's not often a PM is challenged and potentially deposed, even with the Conservative Party.

    p.s. Malc may be sore after Ukraine's triumph at Hampden Park?

    Nutjob, why would I be sore. The best team won. Unlike you I think through a Scottish prism , not under the bizarre English thinking that they should win everything.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,112

    - ”There is only one UK political betting story at the moment and that is whether Johnson is going to face a vote of no confidence amongst Conservative MPs.”

    There is another, and that is whether or not Johnson wins the VONC. As witnessed by the previous thread.

    Fascinatingly, another state in the news is facing an imminent and significant VONC. Yesterday, a motion was tabled in parliament against Morgan Johansson, Sweden’s justice minister. It immediately gained support from all 4 parties on the centre-right-far right bloc, making the result dependent on how an Independent MP and/or the Centre Party votes. So what? one might ask. Well, the fact is that the prime minister Magdalena Andersson will resign if the VONC in Johansson wins.

    What worries the Establishment is that the Independent MP is a leftist Kurd, profoundly unhappy with the Swedish Government desperately sooking up to Turkey in a probably forlorn attempt to obtain NATO membership. She has indicated she will support the VONC based not upon Johansson’s track record (which is dire), but purely on the Swedish government’s Turkey/Kurdistan moves.

    Very, very finely balanced, but we may well be facing yet another political crisis at a worrying time. The GE is in September anyway, but the minority government might not make it that long.

    Oddly, the Social Democrats also hit a modern polling high yesterday: 33%. Way ahead of the Moderates and Sweden Democrats. The Liberals and Greens are way below the 4% threshold.

    Interesting, thanks! That may have been an oulier, if

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_Swedish_general_election

    is up to date. You mentioned a while back that the Moderates no longer see a deal with the Sweden Democrats as anathema. Does thast apply to the Christian Democrats too? If so, a centre-right coalition looks plausible.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    BJT said:

    "PBers will get bored reading about Mr. Brady."

    Maybe we already are. (And I will be tactically voting against this Government at the next election anyway)

    On an objective level I'm loving it.

    This is what political watching is all about: huge fun!

    Holy crap, get a life. I would rather have my nails pulled out with pliars.
    Morning, Malky. A coolish haar off the North Sea this morning over here, but high up, so quite dull so far if dry. Looks as if you have no need to water your garden, though.
    Morning Carnyx, yes looking a bit ominous and grey after lovely day yesterday. I am hoping it holds off till evening. Everything is very very green though.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    If Malcolm doesn't like the shenanigans of a leadership challenge and VONC then I am sorry.

    For most of us who enjoy politics and political betting, this is the equivalent of the FA Cup Final. It's not quite a General Election (= Champions League or World Cup) but it is great fun. It's not often a PM is challenged and potentially deposed, even with the Conservative Party.

    p.s. Malc may be sore after Ukraine's triumph at Hampden Park?

    Nutjob, why would I be sore. The best team won. Unlike you I think through a Scottish prism , not under the bizarre English thinking that they should win everything.
    Yes they were very good.

    If you've seen my posts you'll know I'm one of the least nationalistic people on here: often deeply critical of this country especially our colonial past.

    But I sense I'm now getting a bit too serious for you. ;)

    Have a nice day. Guests arriving and I have some cooking to do.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Graham Brady.

    Just another Tory tosser.
    'Sir Graham Brady MP' does sound alarmingly similar to a Viz character ...
    The tories certainly act like Viz characters but with more evil intent.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,444
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    BJT said:

    "PBers will get bored reading about Mr. Brady."

    Maybe we already are. (And I will be tactically voting against this Government at the next election anyway)

    On an objective level I'm loving it.

    This is what political watching is all about: huge fun!

    Holy crap, get a life. I would rather have my nails pulled out with pliars.
    Morning, Malky. A coolish haar off the North Sea this morning over here, but high up, so quite dull so far if dry. Looks as if you have no need to water your garden, though.
    Morning Carnyx, yes looking a bit ominous and grey after lovely day yesterday. I am hoping it holds off till evening. Everything is very very green though.
    I was thinking more of the rain you have already had overnight - met doesn't look too bad so you may be lucky for today.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,831
    Heathener said:

    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    If Malcolm doesn't like the shenanigans of a leadership challenge and VONC then I am sorry.

    For most of us who enjoy politics and political betting, this is the equivalent of the FA Cup Final. It's not quite a General Election (= Champions League or World Cup) but it is great fun. It's not often a PM is challenged and potentially deposed, even with the Conservative Party.

    p.s. Malc may be sore after Ukraine's triumph at Hampden Park?

    Nutjob, why would I be sore. The best team won. Unlike you I think through a Scottish prism , not under the bizarre English thinking that they should win everything.
    Yes they were very good.

    If you've seen my posts you'll know I'm one of the least nationalistic people on here: often deeply critical of this country especially our colonial past.

    But I sense I'm now getting a bit too serious for you. ;)

    Have a nice day. Guests arriving and I have some cooking to do.

    Don't undercook and poison your guests
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,070
    The pint glass story is entirely Brexit theatre to keep the headbangers onside.

    The government says since 2006 pint glasses have had to display the EU 'CE' symbol to show its a full pint, but say that this new guidance will help businesses use a Crown symbol as a "decorative" measure and they'll still have to use the legal conformity markings.
    https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1532620316803055616

    Here's what 'the government tells us' on the stamping of pint glasses versus historical reality. The original decision to allow the use of pint glasses without a crown stamp was taken not because of the EU, but as a common sense measure before...the 1966 World Cup. https://twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/1532623302786748416/photo/1
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,450
    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    Heathener said:

    p.s. morning all. I was in London yesterday and had a fantastic view of the flypast: right over my head. I'm not really a monarchist but I did find it rather moving.

    We got a formation of jets around lunchtime, a Hurricane (repeatedly), and some sort of small WW2 fighter with Luftwaffe markings that everyone assured me was a Bf 109, but looked more like an FW 190 to me.
    I wondered, could it be a Bf.108? Civilian type plane that is often used as a poor man's 109 for air shows and even crap films. Often dressed up in Luftwaffe colours and markings, though that could be authentic as quite a few did serve under RM Goering of course. Slightly blunter cowling and wingtips than a 109 though the cockpit isn't quite like a 190.
    Nice that there was a small tribute to Brenda’s German heritage, though slightly surprised that the vengeful WWII death cult didn’t require it to be shot down.

    I think there’s only one airworthy Würger so that would have been a very rare bird indeed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,444


    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sir Graham Brady.

    Just another Tory tosser.
    'Sir Graham Brady MP' does sound alarmingly similar to a Viz character ...
    The losing Tory candidate in the Romsey by-election in 2000 was, literally, Farmer Palmer.
    Bizarrely, there is a Farmer Palmer's farm/theme park in Dorset. I have absolutely no idea what the relationship, if indeed any, is ...
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,156
    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    If Malcolm doesn't like the shenanigans of a leadership challenge and VONC then I am sorry.

    For most of us who enjoy politics and political betting, this is the equivalent of the FA Cup Final. It's not quite a General Election (= Champions League or World Cup) but it is great fun. It's not often a PM is challenged and potentially deposed, even with the Conservative Party.

    p.s. Malc may be sore after Ukraine's triumph at Hampden Park?

    Nutjob, why would I be sore. The best team won. Unlike you I think through a Scottish prism , not under the bizarre English thinking that they should win everything.
    Yes they were very good.

    If you've seen my posts you'll know I'm one of the least nationalistic people on here: often deeply critical of this country especially our colonial past.

    But I sense I'm now getting a bit too serious for you. ;)

    Have a nice day. Guests arriving and I have some cooking to do.

    Don't undercook and poison your guests
    :smiley:
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,861
    Carnyx said:

    Supermarket Tory Lord not impressed by grains and rods ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/02/complete-nonsense-asda-boss-mocks-post-brexit-plan-to-return-to-imperial-measures

    'The Tory peer and Asda boss Lord Rose said returning to imperial weights and measures was “complete and utter nonsense” and would “add cost” for businesses.

    He told Times Radio: “I’ve never heard such nonsense in my life. I mean, we have got serious problems in the world and we’re now saying ‘let’s go backwards’.

    “Does anybody in this country below the age of about 40 know how many ounces there are in a pound?”

    BEIS insisted the move would not inflict further costs on businesses as there was no intention to require them to make a change.'

    But the Graun journalist notes something I hadn't quite realised - this proposal is completely futile anyway even on the Tories' (admittedly implicit) premisses about nasty EU banning Imperial stuff:

    'it is still legal to price goods in pounds and ounces if displayed alongside prices in grams and kilograms.'

    Yes. The whole argument is about whether someone can price and sell goods using Imperial measures alone, or if they have to give the metric values too. I welcome use of both systems.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,444

    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    Heathener said:

    p.s. morning all. I was in London yesterday and had a fantastic view of the flypast: right over my head. I'm not really a monarchist but I did find it rather moving.

    We got a formation of jets around lunchtime, a Hurricane (repeatedly), and some sort of small WW2 fighter with Luftwaffe markings that everyone assured me was a Bf 109, but looked more like an FW 190 to me.
    I wondered, could it be a Bf.108? Civilian type plane that is often used as a poor man's 109 for air shows and even crap films. Often dressed up in Luftwaffe colours and markings, though that could be authentic as quite a few did serve under RM Goering of course. Slightly blunter cowling and wingtips than a 109 though the cockpit isn't quite like a 190.
    Nice that there was a small tribute to Brenda’s German heritage, though slightly surprised that the vengeful WWII death cult didn’t require it to be shot down.

    I think there’s only one airworthy Würger so that would have been a very rare bird indeed.
    Anyway, perhaps someone on PB knows the answer. If one of us heard it and could confirm that the thing had a Merlin that would be easy - a Ha-1112 perhaps ex the Battle of Britain film.

    German engines sounded quite different, apparently. I remember my late mother telling me of the noise of the bombers proceeding overhead to paste Clydebank, though what she remembered most was the slow beat of the deliberately unsynchronised motors - not relevant to a single-eingine job obviously.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,139

    This is an insightful piece on the Brexit omertà. https://mattcarr.substack.com/p/the-silence-of-the-lambs?utm_source=twitter&sd=fs&s=r

    … Ukraine, the pandemic, and related matters are all contributing factors. But Brexit runs through almost all these developments like a stick of rock. Brexit has reduced the ability of airline companies to recruit baggage handlers and airport staff. Brexit paperwork continually slows down traffic at Dover and other ports.

    Brexit has increased export costs for small businesses and larger companies. The prospect of further Brexit tariffs is one reason why Jaguar Land Rover is talking about shifting battery production to Slovakia. The UK government’s sabre-rattling about the Northern Ireland Protocol has increased pressure on the pound by deterring investors.

    … there are certain aspects of our national experience that are entirely related to Brexit, and yet no one wants to mention them.

    … Brexit is unsayable to the Johnson cabal and the Tory Party. Real world problems cannot be spoken about by a Vote Leave government that is more concerned with its own salvation than the real world, and a party hollowed out by a rightwing takeover that has transformed support for Brexit into the lodestone of what it means to be a Tory or even a loyal citizen.

    … Brexit problems have become the invisible terrors of which Tories dare not speak… The 2016 referendum was won because Leave campaigners pretended there would be no negative consequences for leaving the European Union. Any seeds of doubt would have threatened the vote, and to some extent their ongoing silence is a continuation of that.

    To acknowledge post-Brexit problems now would risk exposing the dishonesty and delusion at the heart of the Brexit project in the first place. It might lead the public to ask unwelcome questions about why these problems are taking place when Brexiteers denied that they would ever happen, and what Brexiters did to prepare for them or plan for them, and what they propose to do now.

    …Terrified of falling into the Red Wall Brexit trap, the Labour Party has been almost as silent as the government, focussing on ‘making Brexit work’, without saying how, and referring to - wait for it -’post-Brexit opportunities’ while studiously ignoring post-Brexit negativities.

    And how about the UK media? What about the state broadcaster? Can’t they ask the questions that politicians aren’t asking? They could, but with some exceptions, they prefer not to, and don’t draw the dots even when the outline of the picture is obvious.

    … a complex and precarious democracy of 67 million people is being asked to shut its eyes to the act of gratuitous self-harm it has inflicted on itself, in order to protect a dishonest government and a clueless political class from ignominy… there are no sunlit uplands waiting for us, only an endless series of crises made so much worse by the problems that we refuse to speak about.

    I think the article overdoes things, much of what they talk about is certainly not "entirely" related to Brexit, yet it also manages to miss the biggest parts of the self harm Brexit has done, which are the low calibre of people in the cabinet, and the constant need for division that keeps them in power.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,484
    Carnyx said:

    Supermarket Tory Lord not impressed by grains and rods ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/02/complete-nonsense-asda-boss-mocks-post-brexit-plan-to-return-to-imperial-measures

    'The Tory peer and Asda boss Lord Rose said returning to imperial weights and measures was “complete and utter nonsense” and would “add cost” for businesses.

    He told Times Radio: “I’ve never heard such nonsense in my life. I mean, we have got serious problems in the world and we’re now saying ‘let’s go backwards’.

    “Does anybody in this country below the age of about 40 know how many ounces there are in a pound?”

    BEIS insisted the move would not inflict further costs on businesses as there was no intention to require them to make a change.'

    But the Graun journalist notes something I hadn't quite realised - this proposal is completely futile anyway even on the Tories' (admittedly implicit) premisses about nasty EU banning Imperial stuff:

    'it is still legal to price goods in pounds and ounces if displayed alongside prices in grams and kilograms.'

    On the latter point - we know that "the EU banned it" is a lie. Its invariably a lie, and worse a lie that the liars lying about it know to be so. The problem is that we have too many people who have had weapons-grade ignorance shoved into their heads for years. So enough people believe the liars to be worth their while.

    I do have to ask a basic morality question though. When they are lying and know you are lying but do so because you think you will gain political benefits from ignorant people you are helping keep ignorant, do they ever wonder what happened to those grand ideals about public service?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,759

    - ”There is only one UK political betting story at the moment and that is whether Johnson is going to face a vote of no confidence amongst Conservative MPs.”

    There is another, and that is whether or not Johnson wins the VONC. As witnessed by the previous thread.

    Fascinatingly, another state in the news is facing an imminent and significant VONC. Yesterday, a motion was tabled in parliament against Morgan Johansson, Sweden’s justice minister. It immediately gained support from all 4 parties on the centre-right-far right bloc, making the result dependent on how an Independent MP and/or the Centre Party votes. So what? one might ask. Well, the fact is that the prime minister Magdalena Andersson will resign if the VONC in Johansson wins.

    What worries the Establishment is that the Independent MP is a leftist Kurd, profoundly unhappy with the Swedish Government desperately sooking up to Turkey in a probably forlorn attempt to obtain NATO membership. She has indicated she will support the VONC based not upon Johansson’s track record (which is dire), but purely on the Swedish government’s Turkey/Kurdistan moves.

    Very, very finely balanced, but we may well be facing yet another political crisis at a worrying time. The GE is in September anyway, but the minority government might not make it that long.

    Oddly, the Social Democrats also hit a modern polling high yesterday: 33%. Way ahead of the Moderates and Sweden Democrats. The Liberals and Greens are way below the 4% threshold.

    Interesting, thanks! That may have been an oulier, if

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_Swedish_general_election

    is up to date. You mentioned a while back that the Moderates no longer see a deal with the Sweden Democrats as anathema. Does thast apply to the Christian Democrats too? If so, a centre-right coalition looks plausible.
    Good morning Nick! You’re welcome.

    Yes, might be an outlier poll, but I think our new PM Magdalena Andersson is doing bloody well, in difficult circumstances. I have never voted for her party, and probably won’t in September, but I like the cut of her gibb. IMHO it is not an “outlier” but a genuine step up in Social Democrat support.

    The leader of my former party The Moderates - Ulf Kristersson - is unimpressive, and has had one of his biggest election issues, NATO membership, dragged out from under his feet. I might vote M anyway, but extremely reluctantly.

    The Sweden Democrats, Moderates and Christian Democrats act as a well-coordinated team these days. The Alliance is long dead. Absolutely guaranteed that they will build a coalition if they can. And *that* is what puts me off voting M! (There are other factors too).
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 18,484

    Carnyx said:

    Supermarket Tory Lord not impressed by grains and rods ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/02/complete-nonsense-asda-boss-mocks-post-brexit-plan-to-return-to-imperial-measures

    'The Tory peer and Asda boss Lord Rose said returning to imperial weights and measures was “complete and utter nonsense” and would “add cost” for businesses.

    He told Times Radio: “I’ve never heard such nonsense in my life. I mean, we have got serious problems in the world and we’re now saying ‘let’s go backwards’.

    “Does anybody in this country below the age of about 40 know how many ounces there are in a pound?”

    BEIS insisted the move would not inflict further costs on businesses as there was no intention to require them to make a change.'

    But the Graun journalist notes something I hadn't quite realised - this proposal is completely futile anyway even on the Tories' (admittedly implicit) premisses about nasty EU banning Imperial stuff:

    'it is still legal to price goods in pounds and ounces if displayed alongside prices in grams and kilograms.'

    Yes. The whole argument is about whether someone can price and sell goods using Imperial measures alone, or if they have to give the metric values too. I welcome use of both systems.
    Most consumers are too young to be imperial savvy. So it would take an absolute tool to *only* price in imperial. And before anyone says "what about pubs" take a look at their price list - 568ml is also displayed.

    So this is a confected argument for seniles and idiots to propose something that no business will do.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,070
    Taking back control-
    Aviation chaos: We need to talk about Brexit | The Independent https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airport-airline-chaos-flight-brexit-b2091300.html

    “Brexit was a mistake which is causing harm but we shouldn’t do anything to reverse it” is a bizarre way of thinking. It’s like mishandling a knife and then resolving to let yourself bleed to death.
    https://twitter.com/seanjonesqc/status/1532630897173962752
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    Cyclefree said:

    Does anybody check whether Mr Brady actually gets 54 letters? I mean he could just get the one or none but decide to call a VoNC anyway.

    Or is this another "We Assume He's a Good Chap" convention?

    He already has the knighthood so I reckon we're pretty safe? Having said that, he's a bit bonkers cos he actually ran for leader last time...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,070

    So this is a confected argument for seniles and idiots to propose something that no business will do.

    The weirdest thing about this (and there are many weird things about this) is who is it meant to be aimed at? How many non-Tory voters are going to look at this and say “you know what, I think I’ll give these imperial measures guys my vote at the next election”?
    https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1532633797484761091
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,236
    Scott_xP said:

    The pint glass story is entirely Brexit theatre to keep the headbangers onside.

    The government says since 2006 pint glasses have had to display the EU 'CE' symbol to show its a full pint, but say that this new guidance will help businesses use a Crown symbol as a "decorative" measure and they'll still have to use the legal conformity markings.
    https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1532620316803055616

    Here's what 'the government tells us' on the stamping of pint glasses versus historical reality. The original decision to allow the use of pint glasses without a crown stamp was taken not because of the EU, but as a common sense measure before...the 1966 World Cup. https://twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/1532623302786748416/photo/1

    The strategic problem is that the intended audience for all this is dying out.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,139
    edited June 3
    Scott_xP said:

    Taking back control-
    Aviation chaos: We need to talk about Brexit | The Independent https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airport-airline-chaos-flight-brexit-b2091300.html

    “Brexit was a mistake which is causing harm but we shouldn’t do anything to reverse it” is a bizarre way of thinking. It’s like mishandling a knife and then resolving to let yourself bleed to death.
    https://twitter.com/seanjonesqc/status/1532630897173962752

    Not really. Some divorces are mistakes and people find out the grass is not greener. For that group it would still be the exception rather than the rule to get back together with the ex.

    Perhaps we should try and tempt the EU with friends with benefits instead of a second marriage or bitter enemies bitching about each other?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,759
    Forgot to say @NickPalmer that the Centre Party leader Annie Lööf went out on her instagram this morning and said she will NOT be backing the VONC. So all now down to that Independent MP (elected as Left Party but fell out).
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    BJT said:

    "PBers will get bored reading about Mr. Brady."

    Maybe we already are. (And I will be tactically voting against this Government at the next election anyway)

    On an objective level I'm loving it.

    This is what political watching is all about: huge fun!

    Holy crap, get a life. I would rather have my nails pulled out with pliars.
    It's an interesting case study of institutional and individual moral failure.

    I am amazed they haven't managed to find 54 letters, even for the Tories.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 2,916
    TECHNE this week

    Lab 40% (nc)
    Con 32% (-1)
    Lib Dem 12% (+1)
    Green 6% (nc)
    SNP 4% (nc)

    1,632 questioned Tue & Wed. Changes with 25-26 May.

    Details & data - https://t.co/KHeGBCcKNZ https://t.co/McOgOmKf0u
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 17,000
    Cyclefree said:

    Does anybody check whether Mr Brady actually gets 54 letters? I mean he could just get the one or none but decide to call a VoNC anyway.

    Or is this another "We Assume He's a Good Chap" convention?

    Embarrassing if votes against came to less than no of letters required

    Pure guess, he does a count with his vice chair to verify number, and the letters are kept in a sealed box in case of disputes later
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    Just saw my first bunting in Scotland - old people's home.

    They had some on my girlfriend's ward (psychiatry) but they had to take it down as a ligature risk... rather a dark image.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,759

    Scott_xP said:

    Taking back control-
    Aviation chaos: We need to talk about Brexit | The Independent https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airport-airline-chaos-flight-brexit-b2091300.html

    “Brexit was a mistake which is causing harm but we shouldn’t do anything to reverse it” is a bizarre way of thinking. It’s like mishandling a knife and then resolving to let yourself bleed to death.
    https://twitter.com/seanjonesqc/status/1532630897173962752

    Not really. Some divorces are mistakes and people find out the grass is not greener. For that group it would still be the exception rather than the rule to get back together with the ex.

    Perhaps we should try and tempt the EU with friends with benefits instead of a second marriage or bitter enemies bitching about each other?
    Friends with benefits? Are they gonna shaft England or is England shafting them?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,851
    kjh said:

    @Casino_Royale may I offer a hand of reconciliation?

    Of course, thank you.

    And sorry about yesterday too - I am very proud of our country, its traditions and heritage, and I get easily upset by those who don't feel the same way.

    My apologies.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,139
    Scott_xP said:

    So this is a confected argument for seniles and idiots to propose something that no business will do.

    The weirdest thing about this (and there are many weird things about this) is who is it meant to be aimed at? How many non-Tory voters are going to look at this and say “you know what, I think I’ll give these imperial measures guys my vote at the next election”?
    https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1532633797484761091
    Not going after new votes but aimed at re-enforcing the 2019 vote by maintaining turnout and discouraging a switch back to other parties.

    And it is a tiny piece in their jigsaw, that they are not going to even ever implement. Pretty much guaranteed we will get similar intentions from the govt in 2023 and 2024 when they need a favourable story to the Mail and Express.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 1,488
    Scott_xP said:

    So this is a confected argument for seniles and idiots to propose something that no business will do.

    The weirdest thing about this (and there are many weird things about this) is who is it meant to be aimed at? How many non-Tory voters are going to look at this and say “you know what, I think I’ll give these imperial measures guys my vote at the next election”?
    https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1532633797484761091
    The problem with Dead Cats is you eventually get used to them.

    Maybe a writhing hippo? An angry cobra? (Was wondering if Johnson might deploy troops to west Ukraine or something).
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 2,916
    Morning everyone. More Jubing, more drift, more sitting on the obverse of a fat cretin, more sense of disbelief, more wonderimg how much swing in Tiverton will see the LDs loop the loop.
    Paris, on the eve 9f the war.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,139

    Scott_xP said:

    Taking back control-
    Aviation chaos: We need to talk about Brexit | The Independent https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airport-airline-chaos-flight-brexit-b2091300.html

    “Brexit was a mistake which is causing harm but we shouldn’t do anything to reverse it” is a bizarre way of thinking. It’s like mishandling a knife and then resolving to let yourself bleed to death.
    https://twitter.com/seanjonesqc/status/1532630897173962752

    Not really. Some divorces are mistakes and people find out the grass is not greener. For that group it would still be the exception rather than the rule to get back together with the ex.

    Perhaps we should try and tempt the EU with friends with benefits instead of a second marriage or bitter enemies bitching about each other?
    Friends with benefits? Are they gonna shaft England or is England shafting them?
    As I understand it both Europe and UK are feminine.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,759
    Eabhal said:

    Just saw my first bunting in Scotland - old people's home.

    They had some on my girlfriend's ward (psychiatry) but they had to take it down as a ligature risk... rather a dark image.

    I remember the silver jubilee in Scotland. Nada. And the monarchy is *much* less popular in the country now than it was then.

    My mum, who is a classic soppy royal family fan, took us down to wave wee saltires and lion rampant flags at her maj outside Holyroodhouse once. I cannot remember the queen or her carriage, but I think those wee flags might have been the start of my journey to supporting sovereignty. The other thing I remember is that there weren’t many people there.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,006

    Carnyx said:

    Supermarket Tory Lord not impressed by grains and rods ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/02/complete-nonsense-asda-boss-mocks-post-brexit-plan-to-return-to-imperial-measures

    'The Tory peer and Asda boss Lord Rose said returning to imperial weights and measures was “complete and utter nonsense” and would “add cost” for businesses.

    He told Times Radio: “I’ve never heard such nonsense in my life. I mean, we have got serious problems in the world and we’re now saying ‘let’s go backwards’.

    “Does anybody in this country below the age of about 40 know how many ounces there are in a pound?”

    BEIS insisted the move would not inflict further costs on businesses as there was no intention to require them to make a change.'

    But the Graun journalist notes something I hadn't quite realised - this proposal is completely futile anyway even on the Tories' (admittedly implicit) premisses about nasty EU banning Imperial stuff:

    'it is still legal to price goods in pounds and ounces if displayed alongside prices in grams and kilograms.'

    On the latter point - we know that "the EU banned it" is a lie. Its invariably a lie, and worse a lie that the liars lying about it know to be so. The problem is that we have too many people who have had weapons-grade ignorance shoved into their heads for years. So enough people believe the liars to be worth their while.

    I do have to ask a basic morality question though. When they are lying and know you are lying but do so because you think you will gain political benefits from ignorant people you are helping keep ignorant, do they ever wonder what happened to those grand ideals about public service?
    There is such a thing as a noble lie- some people put religion in that category.

    You could, I suppose, argue that passports and pint crowns are noble lies. If Brexit is good in itself, a lie or two to get the public to do the right thing might be considered worthwhile.

    Dom C's remarks about that bus come close to acknowledging that- though I think he saw that as an incomplete truth, rather than a lie. Some of BoJo's philosophical musings skirt the same idea.

    But a flat out lie? Is any Brexit Backer ready to totally fess up? "Yes, X was a lie, but it was necessary to get this great thing to happen."

    (No, "the other side lies as well" is not sufficient excuse. Partly because "they did it too" never is sufficient, but also because Rejoin is, if not dead, hibernating right now.)
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 2,707
    I'm surprised by how relaxed everyone seems to be by the Red Arrows traitorously painting the sky over yesterday's celebrations with the French flag. Haven't they had time in the last fifty years to work out how to do a Union Jack? I guess at least it wasn't the Russian flag..
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,759

    Scott_xP said:

    Taking back control-
    Aviation chaos: We need to talk about Brexit | The Independent https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airport-airline-chaos-flight-brexit-b2091300.html

    “Brexit was a mistake which is causing harm but we shouldn’t do anything to reverse it” is a bizarre way of thinking. It’s like mishandling a knife and then resolving to let yourself bleed to death.
    https://twitter.com/seanjonesqc/status/1532630897173962752

    Not really. Some divorces are mistakes and people find out the grass is not greener. For that group it would still be the exception rather than the rule to get back together with the ex.

    Perhaps we should try and tempt the EU with friends with benefits instead of a second marriage or bitter enemies bitching about each other?
    Friends with benefits? Are they gonna shaft England or is England shafting them?
    As I understand it both Europe and UK are feminine.
    Err… don’t go googling or anything, but female-female encounters do not necessarily omit shafting.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 44,851

    Scott_xP said:

    Taking back control-
    Aviation chaos: We need to talk about Brexit | The Independent https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airport-airline-chaos-flight-brexit-b2091300.html

    “Brexit was a mistake which is causing harm but we shouldn’t do anything to reverse it” is a bizarre way of thinking. It’s like mishandling a knife and then resolving to let yourself bleed to death.
    https://twitter.com/seanjonesqc/status/1532630897173962752

    Not really. Some divorces are mistakes and people find out the grass is not greener. For that group it would still be the exception rather than the rule to get back together with the ex.

    Perhaps we should try and tempt the EU with friends with benefits instead of a second marriage or bitter enemies bitching about each other?
    I think that, in time, the UK and the EU will adopt a closer and more cooperative relationship with each other but we'll never go back to full EU membership. You can't ever put the genie wholly back in the box.

    We had decades of friction over our membership for very good reasons and I think both sides recognise it was the wrong model for both the EU and the UK.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,821
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    mwadams said:

    Heathener said:

    p.s. morning all. I was in London yesterday and had a fantastic view of the flypast: right over my head. I'm not really a monarchist but I did find it rather moving.

    We got a formation of jets around lunchtime, a Hurricane (repeatedly), and some sort of small WW2 fighter with Luftwaffe markings that everyone assured me was a Bf 109, but looked more like an FW 190 to me.
    I wondered, could it be a Bf.108? Civilian type plane that is often used as a poor man's 109 for air shows and even crap films. Often dressed up in Luftwaffe colours and markings, though that could be authentic as quite a few did serve under RM Goering of course. Slightly blunter cowling and wingtips than a 109 though the cockpit isn't quite like a 190.
    Nice that there was a small tribute to Brenda’s German heritage, though slightly surprised that the vengeful WWII death cult didn’t require it to be shot down.

    I think there’s only one airworthy Würger so that would have been a very rare bird indeed.
    Anyway, perhaps someone on PB knows the answer. If one of us heard it and could confirm that the thing had a Merlin that would be easy - a Ha-1112 perhaps ex the Battle of Britain film.

    German engines sounded quite different, apparently. I remember my late mother telling me of the noise of the bombers proceeding overhead to paste Clydebank, though what she remembered most was the slow beat of the deliberately unsynchronised motors - not relevant to a single-eingine job obviously.
    You probably saw an RAF Texan (used for training) flying about with (or behind) the Spitfires and Hurricanes yesterday.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,759

    Morning everyone. More Jubing, more drift, more sitting on the obverse of a fat cretin, more sense of disbelief, more wonderimg how much swing in Tiverton will see the LDs loop the loop.
    Paris, on the eve 9f the war.

    The sense of unstoppable decline is palpable. And you didn’t even mention Sterling becoming an emerging market currency.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 6,609

    kjh said:

    @Casino_Royale may I offer a hand of reconciliation?

    Of course, thank you.

    And sorry about yesterday too - I am very proud of our country, its traditions and heritage, and I get easily upset by those who don't feel the same way.

    My apologies.
    What a nice response. Thank you.
This discussion has been closed.