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Tears for Keir? – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2022

    Cyclefree said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Have we discussed the transfer of LFÇ to some non-English League yet. They showed yesterday at Wembley that they dislike the UK so I'm sure they would hate to win the English Premiership.

    Fake news, they just hate the establishment that committed a blood libel on the city.
    They booed ABIDE WITH ME

    They are vulgar, ugly, stupid, uncultured, infantile bags of shite. They’re not even *nails* enough to be called thugs any more
    I see you've been on the sauce again.

    I guess you'll be able to direct me to your posts criticising the Manchester City fans for not adhering to the minute's silence at the semi final.

    Your fake outrage is like Sweden's favourite son of dick getting outraged over something England has done.
    Scousers are the sort of people who would boo a Mozart symphony or piss on a Michelangelo sculpture JUST BECAUSE it is beautiful. They are quite vile

    Has anyone ever sat in a bar or a hotel or a restaurant then heard a load of Scouse accents coming through the door and thought “oh, great”

    That’s not true of any other accent. Not even brummie or Glaswegian. Liverpool accents? Yes

    That's a pretty ignorant and bigoted opinion. Personally I like the scouse accent, it's quite musical and has a lot of humour in it, quite sexy too. Plenty of culture in Liverpool too, the Beatles, Roger McGough, Alan Bleasdale, Willy Russell, Craig Charles, Alexei Sayle...
    "not even brummie or Glaswegian"... Christ, so much to unpack there. You are quite the snob, aren't you!
    It takes a real philistine to disparage Liverpool. Or if not a real one, someone playing one on TV.
    Liverpool is one of my favourite English cities, it's got an incredible energy and mythology.
    I rather liked my visit there. Some beautiful buildings and the waterfront museums are very good indeed. To me it has a feel of Naples about it.

    Anyway, here are some photos from Greece. You can try and guess the place. My only clue is that it starts with an I.





    Ithaca? The home of Odysseus?
    Tricky. Looks like northern mainland Greece? That Balkan/Ottoman architecture. Green and quite fertile


    Macedonia?

    Edit: Missed the clue. Starts with I?

    Ioannina is a good bet, but the hills are a bit bald

    Very hard!


  • TresTres Posts: 2,695

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    i.e. a lucky roll of the die.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    Cleethorpes is nice
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    "Gentlemen, you can't discuss politics in here! This is PB.com!"
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    They can, but it often sounds like the politics of envy.

    The best footballers generally end up at the best clubs, is it any surprise the best students end up at the best universities and Oxford?
    I recall reading research saying that the privately educated do less well than state school pupils at top universities on average though, suggesting they might not be the best students. Perhaps just the best coached for interviews and the most spoon fed through school.
    It’s a while back now but my grammar school did nothing to help me in the interview process for Cambridge. I strongly suspect that private school candidates had had interview training and practice. Could have made all the difference.
    Yeah my comprehensive didn't help me at all. I read a PG Wodehouse novel the night before the interview, in the hope that it might help me penetrate the Oxbridge worldview. Something must have worked since I got in. They may have just been confused by my Scottish qualifications.
    Perhaps you got in on your own merit without the hothousing from certain schools.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    It's not as bad as when the PB micro penis club started talking about their airport private member lounge access tiers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You can post a photo direct from your phone on the Vanilla site.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,249
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, one of the many advantages of having a Daughter in hospitality is that our knives get professionally sharpened. And I am sure you will all be delighted to know that using one of those sharp knives, some alcohol and your wonderful tips (for which many thanks) I managed to extract my splinter.

    Hooray!

    Of course, now that arm is covered in nettle stings as a result of more gardening.

    I like to live dangerously ....😀

    My wife just broke her wrist rollerblading 😟
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172



    Yeah my comprehensive didn't help me at all. I read a PG Wodehouse novel the night before the interview, in the hope that it might help me penetrate the Oxbridge worldview. Something must have worked since I got in. They may have just been confused by my Scottish qualifications.

    PG Wodehouse did not go to Oxford, or Cambridge, or any University, of course.

    He went from school straight into the world of work (clerical work in HSBC Bank, then jobbing journalism).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    I always presumed Vanilla just hates Portrait
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2022

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, one of the many advantages of having a Daughter in hospitality is that our knives get professionally sharpened. And I am sure you will all be delighted to know that using one of those sharp knives, some alcohol and your wonderful tips (for which many thanks) I managed to extract my splinter.

    Hooray!

    Of course, now that arm is covered in nettle stings as a result of more gardening.

    I like to live dangerously ....😀

    My wife just broke her wrist rollerblading 😟
    Sorry to hear that. Hope she mends soon

    Is it me or are PB-ers unusually prone to accidents?

    I ascribe this to our innate derring-do, not anything to do with age
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    edited May 2022
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    I always presumed Vanilla just hates Portrait
    I posted an old photo a couple of nights ago, from Vanilla on an iPhone, and it appeared upside down. Hence my theory. I may be wrong though.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/news/2022/landtagswahl-nordrhein-westfalen-2022.html#prognosen-hochrechnungen

    SPD-Green is still 1 seat short of a majority in projections although FDP could still drop out.

    Terrible result for the SPD. Assuming no SPD Green majority, there are several possible options. CDU Green would at least be a coalition of the winners. SPD Green FDP also very possible.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Have we discussed the transfer of LFÇ to some non-English League yet. They showed yesterday at Wembley that they dislike the UK so I'm sure they would hate to win the English Premiership.

    Fake news, they just hate the establishment that committed a blood libel on the city.
    They booed ABIDE WITH ME

    They are vulgar, ugly, stupid, uncultured, infantile bags of shite. They’re not even *nails* enough to be called thugs any more
    I see you've been on the sauce again.

    I guess you'll be able to direct me to your posts criticising the Manchester City fans for not adhering to the minute's silence at the semi final.

    Your fake outrage is like Sweden's favourite son of dick getting outraged over something England has done.
    Scousers are the sort of people who would boo a Mozart symphony or piss on a Michelangelo sculpture JUST BECAUSE it is beautiful. They are quite vile

    Has anyone ever sat in a bar or a hotel or a restaurant then heard a load of Scouse accents coming through the door and thought “oh, great”

    That’s not true of any other accent. Not even brummie or Glaswegian. Liverpool accents? Yes

    That's a pretty ignorant and bigoted opinion. Personally I like the scouse accent, it's quite musical and has a lot of humour in it, quite sexy too. Plenty of culture in Liverpool too, the Beatles, Roger McGough, Alan Bleasdale, Willy Russell, Craig Charles, Alexei Sayle...
    "not even brummie or Glaswegian"... Christ, so much to unpack there. You are quite the snob, aren't you!
    It takes a real philistine to disparage Liverpool. Or if not a real one, someone playing one on TV.
    Liverpool is one of my favourite English cities, it's got an incredible energy and mythology.
    I rather liked my visit there. Some beautiful buildings and the waterfront museums are very good indeed. To me it has a feel of Naples about it.

    Anyway, here are some photos from Greece. You can try and guess the place. My only clue is that it starts with an I.





    Iraklion, the palace at Knossos?
    Farooq got it. Well done!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    #PurpleTrain!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Have we discussed the transfer of LFÇ to some non-English League yet. They showed yesterday at Wembley that they dislike the UK so I'm sure they would hate to win the English Premiership.

    Fake news, they just hate the establishment that committed a blood libel on the city.
    They booed ABIDE WITH ME

    They are vulgar, ugly, stupid, uncultured, infantile bags of shite. They’re not even *nails* enough to be called thugs any more
    I see you've been on the sauce again.

    I guess you'll be able to direct me to your posts criticising the Manchester City fans for not adhering to the minute's silence at the semi final.

    Your fake outrage is like Sweden's favourite son of dick getting outraged over something England has done.
    Scousers are the sort of people who would boo a Mozart symphony or piss on a Michelangelo sculpture JUST BECAUSE it is beautiful. They are quite vile

    Has anyone ever sat in a bar or a hotel or a restaurant then heard a load of Scouse accents coming through the door and thought “oh, great”

    That’s not true of any other accent. Not even brummie or Glaswegian. Liverpool accents? Yes

    That's a pretty ignorant and bigoted opinion. Personally I like the scouse accent, it's quite musical and has a lot of humour in it, quite sexy too. Plenty of culture in Liverpool too, the Beatles, Roger McGough, Alan Bleasdale, Willy Russell, Craig Charles, Alexei Sayle...
    "not even brummie or Glaswegian"... Christ, so much to unpack there. You are quite the snob, aren't you!
    It takes a real philistine to disparage Liverpool. Or if not a real one, someone playing one on TV.
    Liverpool is one of my favourite English cities, it's got an incredible energy and mythology.
    I rather liked my visit there. Some beautiful buildings and the waterfront museums are very good indeed. To me it has a feel of Naples about it.

    Anyway, here are some photos from Greece. You can try and guess the place. My only clue is that it starts with an I.





    Iraklion, the palace at Knossos?
    Farooq got it. Well done!
    I drove through Ioannina about 4 hours ago. Which gives a pretty hefty clue where I am (and I have had beers and dinner since)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I like it. Interspersing politics with travel, gardening or F1 is like recurring subplots.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    I always presumed Vanilla just hates Portrait
    I posted an old photo a couple of nights ago, from Vanilla on an iPhone, and it appeared upside down. Hence my theory. I may be wrong though.
    To add: it looks correct in “preview” mode before posting, vexingly.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, one of the many advantages of having a Daughter in hospitality is that our knives get professionally sharpened. And I am sure you will all be delighted to know that using one of those sharp knives, some alcohol and your wonderful tips (for which many thanks) I managed to extract my splinter.

    Hooray!

    Of course, now that arm is covered in nettle stings as a result of more gardening.

    I like to live dangerously ....😀

    My wife just broke her wrist rollerblading 😟
    Sorry to hear that. Hope she mends soon

    Is it me or are PB-ers unusually prone to accidents?

    I ascribe this to our innate derring-do, not anything to do with age
    God yes! I am always bashing myself on table edges, doors etc, falling over and so on. I have a blood condition which means I bruise very easily and often find bruises where I don't even remember hurting myself. A few weeks back I fell quite heavily while trying to fix a down pipe which had come loose during wind. My thigh went black.

    Honestly, if I'd died suddenly the police would be round asking Husband questions about why his wife's body was covered in bruises.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited May 2022
    Mr Benn has written an astonishingly sensible thread (a few days ago) on the Northern Ireland Protocol.

    https://twitter.com/hilarybennmp/status/1525145388243615744?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg

    Remember when government was about finding solutions rather than just trying to get good editorial coverage from the Telegraph?

    I appreciate Benn is no longer a Labour front-bencher, but if he we’re to get a cabinet position in a new Labour government we should be lucky.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    kjh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, one of the many advantages of having a Daughter in hospitality is that our knives get professionally sharpened. And I am sure you will all be delighted to know that using one of those sharp knives, some alcohol and your wonderful tips (for which many thanks) I managed to extract my splinter.

    Hooray!

    Of course, now that arm is covered in nettle stings as a result of more gardening.

    I like to live dangerously ....😀

    My wife just broke her wrist rollerblading 😟
    Best wishes to her.
    Yes indeed - all the very best.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    They can, but it often sounds like the politics of envy.
    Possibly, but if so getting snowflakey about it probably doesn't help reduce envy or engender sympathy.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
    Didn't they say it was fully open in three parts, and Bond Street wouldn't be open. They've been hard pressed. How can Bond street not be ready - that'll be 5 years or so late!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Mr Benn has written an astonishingly sensible thread (a few days ago) on the Northern Ireland Protocol.

    https://twitter.com/hilarybennmp/status/1525145388243615744?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg

    Remember when government was about finding solutions rather than just trying to get good editorial coverage from the Telegraph?

    I appreciate Benn is no longer a Labour front-bencher, but if he we’re to get a cabinet position in a new Labour government we should be lucky.

    As if by magic...

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    Just saw this on the subject of Finland joining NATO (from an American friend) -

    "Make sure the coverage includes preexisting conditions, in this case having Russia as a neighbor."
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496



    Yeah my comprehensive didn't help me at all. I read a PG Wodehouse novel the night before the interview, in the hope that it might help me penetrate the Oxbridge worldview. Something must have worked since I got in. They may have just been confused by my Scottish qualifications.

    PG Wodehouse did not go to Oxford, or Cambridge, or any University, of course.

    He went from school straight into the world of work (clerical work in HSBC Bank, then jobbing journalism).
    And from his world of work at HSBC, wrote his early and very funny work 'Psmith in the City'.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Super Greek salad, rustic bread, famous spring water, truly excellent veal in red wine, half a litre of fine local red, views across the immortal mountains, £17 total

    That was the price of one and a half gin and tonics in a grim bar in JFK last month
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Hope you get an outing to the Turk's Head on St. Agnes.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    How is it that a post such as "Deputy director of the Attenborough Arts Centre, the University of Leicester" is filled by a peasant?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Omnium said:

    How is it that a post such as "Deputy director of the Attenborough Arts Centre, the University of Leicester" is filled by a peasant?

    They thought he would provide great serf-ice?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    Leon said:

    Super Greek salad, rustic bread, famous spring water, truly excellent veal in red wine, half a litre of fine local red, views across the immortal mountains, £17 total

    That was the price of one and a half gin and tonics in a grim bar in JFK last month

    Lefkas?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715

    Just saw this on the subject of Finland joining NATO (from an American friend) -

    "Make sure the coverage includes preexisting conditions, in this case having Russia as a neighbor."

    Had a conversation earlier with a mate where we agreed that Johnson's promise that UK would defend Finland militarily even while the NATO application goes in should perhaps come with a massive warning that some of his promises are utter bullshit.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    How is it that a post such as "Deputy director of the Attenborough Arts Centre, the University of Leicester" is filled by a peasant?

    They thought he would provide great serf-ice?
    Well finding someone that thinks that throwing things is a form of argiment is impressive.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited May 2022
    Lavrov seems to have downgraded Russian demands to “safety of people in eastern Ukraine”.

    https://twitter.com/russianembassy/status/1525883068074102792?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    Just saw this on the subject of Finland joining NATO (from an American friend) -

    "Make sure the coverage includes preexisting conditions, in this case having Russia as a neighbor."

    Well, Norway's been a member since 1949 and Turkey since 1952, plus Poland since 1999 and Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania since 2004. So it's not as though it's exactly a new thing for NATO to border Russia (or the USSR in Turkey's case).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
    Didn't they say it was fully open in three parts, and Bond Street wouldn't be open. They've been hard pressed. How can Bond street not be ready - that'll be 5 years or so late!
    I will soon be able to leave my flat on Shaftesbury Avenue at 9am, and be through Security at at Heathrow Terminal 3, well before 10.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
    Didn't they say it was fully open in three parts, and Bond Street wouldn't be open. They've been hard pressed. How can Bond street not be ready - that'll be 5 years or so late!
    I will soon be able to leave my flat on Shaftesbury Avenue at 9am, and be through Security at at Heathrow Terminal 3, well before 10.

    What I admire about you is your relentless optimism despite past experience.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Test
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    algarkirk said:



    Yeah my comprehensive didn't help me at all. I read a PG Wodehouse novel the night before the interview, in the hope that it might help me penetrate the Oxbridge worldview. Something must have worked since I got in. They may have just been confused by my Scottish qualifications.

    PG Wodehouse did not go to Oxford, or Cambridge, or any University, of course.

    He went from school straight into the world of work (clerical work in HSBC Bank, then jobbing journalism).
    And from his world of work at HSBC, wrote his early and very funny work 'Psmith in the City'.

    ... though praps the most painful work he ever wrote (excepting "In Alcala").
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    The unsaid comment on the subject, is that it’s way, way easier to get into the Russell Group universities if you’re paying the full fees, rather than going through the internal UK UCAS system
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
    Didn't they say it was fully open in three parts, and Bond Street wouldn't be open. They've been hard pressed. How can Bond street not be ready - that'll be 5 years or so late!
    I will soon be able to leave my flat on Shaftesbury Avenue at 9am, and be through Security at at Heathrow Terminal 3, well before 10.

    What I admire about you is your relentless optimism despite past experience.
    I am trying to remember who said that his definition of air superiority was no queuing at the airport.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830


    That was Tresco this is Bryher
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,523

    Mr Benn has written an astonishingly sensible thread (a few days ago) on the Northern Ireland Protocol.

    https://twitter.com/hilarybennmp/status/1525145388243615744?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg

    Remember when government was about finding solutions rather than just trying to get good editorial coverage from the Telegraph?

    I appreciate Benn is no longer a Labour front-bencher, but if he we’re to get a cabinet position in a new Labour government we should be lucky.

    Agreed that is very sensible. It is also worth pointing out that there are precedents. The EU has made various exceptions in the past for territories so that they can operate properly and smoothly with the EU even though strictly they breach EU rules to do so. This applies to Monaco, Liechtenstein and some of the strange enclaves around Switzerland. In each case the EU drew up a set of rules specific for those areas to meet their unique needs, even though those rules breached existing regulation.

    But as Benn has said this needs adult behaviour on both sides and I am not convinced we are going to see that from a PM who regards this as an issue on which he can set up straw men and then claim spurious wins.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    edited May 2022
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    The unsaid comment on the subject, is that it’s way, way easier to get into the Russell Group universities if you’re paying the full fees, rather than going through the internal UK UCAS system
    When I worked in HE, which was (a) not on the Russell Group and (b) in the days before caps were lifted, there were very large numbers of overseas students whose English and educational attainment wasn't up to standard for the uni (not on my courses so much, but in business and maths).

    It was a widely spoken officially unspoken secret that the uni recruited them as cash cows on inflated fees and outside capped numbers.

    Don't know whether that's still typical.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Lavrov seems to have downgraded Russian demands to “safety of people in eastern Ukraine”.

    https://twitter.com/russianembassy/status/1525883068074102792?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg

    He's a master of being able to ignore what he, and his leader, were saying very clearly only months ago about the goals.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    IshmaelZ said:



    That was Tresco this is Bryher

    Very romantic. Hope you get some sunny skies
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Cicero said:

    The latest military setbacks are placing the Russian forces in the Izyum pocket at considerable risk, yet there seems to be no attempt to extract troops from this danger, despite the fact that the new Ukrainian artillery has already demonstrated their enhanced capability. This maybe because the Russians cannot get them out, and this is the largest single force the Russians have in Ukraine, if so then there is a real risk that Izyum could become a decisive defeat for the invaders.

    The Russian response to the formal Finnish application to join NATO also has a few people scratching their heads here. Cutting off of Russian electricity supply has essentially no impact on Finland, whereas cutting off gas would have created problems. The implication is that this is simply a gesture, rather than anything substantive. The question is why the response is so low key, when the rhetoric coming from Moscow remains so determinedly bellicose. It seems that there is some uncertainty in Russia right now.

    What we are hearing is that the Kremlin is increasingly unable to take effective decisions, and that this could be the result of Putin´s rumoured health problems. Certainly it now seems that there is something of a debate in the security comittee about what to do next. As I mentioned a few days ago, there has been an undeclared call up, but this too small to add to the military capability of Russia and the new troops are anyway insufficiently trained and are being thinly distributed in combat groups that are already heavily demoralised. The Russian losses may indeed be closer to the UA estimates of 28,000 dead than the 15,000 estimate of the British MoD. Diplomatic pressure on Moscow is not only coming from the West, but from China and even from supposed allies in Central Asia.

    We feel that something big is brewing in Moscow, but when this breaks remains to be seen. The Kremlin is slowily losing its freedom of action and the military crisis is inexorably leading to a political crisis.

    If Putin does keel over, any word on a likely replacement?

    I believe under the constitution Mishustin is still next in line but all the indications are he's a fairly peripheral figure. Any possible Khrushchevs to his Malenkov?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    To find out would take a lot of in depth work, I suspect. I would further suspect that the subject would have an effect on outcomes.

    The first question is how much the knowledge imparted at school is actually useful for the university degree. Then there are the generic skills in studying, learning, revising etc

    In mathematics, a professor at a Russell Group university I did an MPhil with, was forced to start remedial classes for a percentage of the students. This was because a number were not fluent at fairly basic mathematical operations - differentiation and integration. Worse, they had trouble identifying which mathematical "tools" to use on a problem. The issue there wasn't background, just that he was seeing students with A at maths A level with this situation.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
    Didn't they say it was fully open in three parts, and Bond Street wouldn't be open. They've been hard pressed. How can Bond street not be ready - that'll be 5 years or so late!
    IIRC they poured the wrong sort of concrete underground and it screwed everything up.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817

    Lavrov seems to have downgraded Russian demands to “safety of people in eastern Ukraine”.

    https://twitter.com/russianembassy/status/1525883068074102792?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg

    In the last week the idea that Ukraine might actually win this war, as opposed to achieving a bloody and indecisive draw, has really gained momentum. The losses in the river crossing, the inability to wipe out those marines in Marisupal, the withdraws around Kharkiv, all seem to point to major problems. for the Russians.

    As I have said before though, be careful what you wish for. As Russia grows ever more desperate the risk of escalation to non conventional weapons increases exponentially. We live in very, very dangerous times with leadership that is less than optimal for such a situation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    To find out would take a lot of in depth work, I suspect. I would further suspect that the subject would have an effect on outcomes.

    The first question is how much the knowledge imparted at school is actually useful for the university degree. Then there are the generic skills in studying, learning, revising etc

    In mathematics, a professor at a Russell Group university I did an MPhil with, was forced to start remedial classes for a percentage of the students. This was because a number were not fluent at fairly basic mathematical operations - differentiation and integration. Worse, they had trouble identifying which mathematical "tools" to use on a problem. The issue there wasn't background, just that he was seeing students with A at maths A level with this situation.
    When was this? Wouldn't be surprised to learn it's still an issue today.

    It has got to the stage with our qualifications system that it is more or less impossible to do Maths A-level with an ordinary Maths GCSE. Which tells me somebody dropped an absolute bollock writing the spec.

    Similarly, History a-level is a very bad preparation for degree level study as I've outlined before. This is largely because all the advice academics working for OFQUAL gave was consciously rejected in favour of personal hobby horses.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited May 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    The parents/students are not the only ones trying to game the system.

    The Colleges are just as interested in gaming the system.

    So, for example, if the Admissions Tutor admits students from Hills Rd SFC, or Varndean SFC, or Farnborough SFC (to name 3 outstanding state schools who get tonnes of people into Oxbridge), then their socio-economic background is no different from students at private schools like Haberdashers Aske or St Pauls or Nottingham High School -- but the former make the College look much better as they can hit "state school" targets.

    The overwhelming bias of Oxbridge remains geography -- 40 to 45 per cent of the intake is usually London and the South East.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    DavidL said:

    Lavrov seems to have downgraded Russian demands to “safety of people in eastern Ukraine”.

    https://twitter.com/russianembassy/status/1525883068074102792?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg

    In the last week the idea that Ukraine might actually win this war, as opposed to achieving a bloody and indecisive draw, has really gained momentum. The losses in the river crossing, the inability to wipe out those marines in Marisupal, the withdraws around Kharkiv, all seem to point to major problems. for the Russians.

    As I have said before though, be careful what you wish for. As Russia grows ever more desperate the risk of escalation to non conventional weapons increases exponentially. We live in very, very dangerous times with leadership that is less than optimal for such a situation.
    Although it's encouraging he only wants those in Eastern Ukraine to be safe. I mean, that's something the Russians could arrange tomorrow simply by getting their forces the fuck out of there.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
    Didn't they say it was fully open in three parts, and Bond Street wouldn't be open. They've been hard pressed. How can Bond street not be ready - that'll be 5 years or so late!
    I will soon be able to leave my flat on Shaftesbury Avenue at 9am, and be through Security at at Heathrow Terminal 3, well before 10.

    Using the Heathrow Express, I’ve done “close door in Camden” to “sipping champagne in the Eva Air Lounge at LHR T3” in just under 1 hour. Which felt incredible

    But I needed lots of green lights and good timing

    People diss Heathrow but in many ways it is superbly located, for the main airport of a great world city. Even better now with the Liz Line
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    The latest military setbacks are placing the Russian forces in the Izyum pocket at considerable risk, yet there seems to be no attempt to extract troops from this danger, despite the fact that the new Ukrainian artillery has already demonstrated their enhanced capability. This maybe because the Russians cannot get them out, and this is the largest single force the Russians have in Ukraine, if so then there is a real risk that Izyum could become a decisive defeat for the invaders.

    The Russian response to the formal Finnish application to join NATO also has a few people scratching their heads here. Cutting off of Russian electricity supply has essentially no impact on Finland, whereas cutting off gas would have created problems. The implication is that this is simply a gesture, rather than anything substantive. The question is why the response is so low key, when the rhetoric coming from Moscow remains so determinedly bellicose. It seems that there is some uncertainty in Russia right now.

    What we are hearing is that the Kremlin is increasingly unable to take effective decisions, and that this could be the result of Putin´s rumoured health problems. Certainly it now seems that there is something of a debate in the security comittee about what to do next. As I mentioned a few days ago, there has been an undeclared call up, but this too small to add to the military capability of Russia and the new troops are anyway insufficiently trained and are being thinly distributed in combat groups that are already heavily demoralised. The Russian losses may indeed be closer to the UA estimates of 28,000 dead than the 15,000 estimate of the British MoD. Diplomatic pressure on Moscow is not only coming from the West, but from China and even from supposed allies in Central Asia.

    We feel that something big is brewing in Moscow, but when this breaks remains to be seen. The Kremlin is slowily losing its freedom of action and the military crisis is inexorably leading to a political crisis.

    If Putin does keel over, any word on a likely replacement?

    I believe under the constitution Mishustin is still next in line but all the indications are he's a fairly peripheral figure. Any possible Khrushchevs to his Malenkov?
    Putin is clearly toast. I don't think anyone knows who might replace him though. It's just a vacuum.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    To find out would take a lot of in depth work, I suspect. I would further suspect that the subject would have an effect on outcomes.

    The first question is how much the knowledge imparted at school is actually useful for the university degree. Then there are the generic skills in studying, learning, revising etc

    In mathematics, a professor at a Russell Group university I did an MPhil with, was forced to start remedial classes for a percentage of the students. This was because a number were not fluent at fairly basic mathematical operations - differentiation and integration. Worse, they had trouble identifying which mathematical "tools" to use on a problem. The issue there wasn't background, just that he was seeing students with A at maths A level with this situation.
    My medical school feeds back on its admissions via in course assessments, which is fairly straightforwrd when all students are on the same course compared to a multiplicity. Hence we have eliminated some stations at interview and introduced others. One thing that was dropped was the personal statement, as these were often ghost-written for the applicants. I am not aware of downgrading of private schooling as part of this though.

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
    Didn't they say it was fully open in three parts, and Bond Street wouldn't be open. They've been hard pressed. How can Bond street not be ready - that'll be 5 years or so late!
    I will soon be able to leave my flat on Shaftesbury Avenue at 9am, and be through Security at at Heathrow Terminal 3, well before 10.

    Using the Heathrow Express, I’ve done “close door in Camden” to “sipping champagne in the Eva Air Lounge at LHR T3” in just under 1 hour. Which felt incredible

    But I needed lots of green lights and good timing

    People diss Heathrow but in many ways it is superbly located, for the main airport of a great world city. Even better now with the Liz Line
    I read that as the Liz Truss Line 😳
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    To find out would take a lot of in depth work, I suspect. I would further suspect that the subject would have an effect on outcomes.

    The first question is how much the knowledge imparted at school is actually useful for the university degree. Then there are the generic skills in studying, learning, revising etc

    In mathematics, a professor at a Russell Group university I did an MPhil with, was forced to start remedial classes for a percentage of the students. This was because a number were not fluent at fairly basic mathematical operations - differentiation and integration. Worse, they had trouble identifying which mathematical "tools" to use on a problem. The issue there wasn't background, just that he was seeing students with A at maths A level with this situation.
    Many of our intake (pharmacy) needs extra maths help, and the bits I teach (chemistry) sees some very low standards on arrival. Chemistry in particular suffers from a ‘lies to children’ approach where I need to tell them stuff they think they know is wrong.
    Favourite lie? Electrons as dots and crosses. Should be banned.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    To find out would take a lot of in depth work, I suspect. I would further suspect that the subject would have an effect on outcomes.

    The first question is how much the knowledge imparted at school is actually useful for the university degree. Then there are the generic skills in studying, learning, revising etc

    In mathematics, a professor at a Russell Group university I did an MPhil with, was forced to start remedial classes for a percentage of the students. This was because a number were not fluent at fairly basic mathematical operations - differentiation and integration. Worse, they had trouble identifying which mathematical "tools" to use on a problem. The issue there wasn't background, just that he was seeing students with A at maths A level with this situation.
    When was this? Wouldn't be surprised to learn it's still an issue today.

    It has got to the stage with our qualifications system that it is more or less impossible to do Maths A-level with an ordinary Maths GCSE. Which tells me somebody dropped an absolute bollock writing the spec.

    Similarly, History a-level is a very bad preparation for degree level study as I've outlined before. This is largely because all the advice academics working for OFQUAL gave was consciously rejected in favour of personal hobby horses.
    About 10 years back. He said it was getting worse. The problem, he thought, was that the students seemed to have less ability to use knowledge but were ace at certain, restricted examples. Not enough being taught the "why" of the set examples.

    So they often turned out to be able to do very well at certain examples of differentiation and integration, but when presented with a problem, they had no idea how or what of their "tool sets" to use.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    The latest military setbacks are placing the Russian forces in the Izyum pocket at considerable risk, yet there seems to be no attempt to extract troops from this danger, despite the fact that the new Ukrainian artillery has already demonstrated their enhanced capability. This maybe because the Russians cannot get them out, and this is the largest single force the Russians have in Ukraine, if so then there is a real risk that Izyum could become a decisive defeat for the invaders.

    The Russian response to the formal Finnish application to join NATO also has a few people scratching their heads here. Cutting off of Russian electricity supply has essentially no impact on Finland, whereas cutting off gas would have created problems. The implication is that this is simply a gesture, rather than anything substantive. The question is why the response is so low key, when the rhetoric coming from Moscow remains so determinedly bellicose. It seems that there is some uncertainty in Russia right now.

    What we are hearing is that the Kremlin is increasingly unable to take effective decisions, and that this could be the result of Putin´s rumoured health problems. Certainly it now seems that there is something of a debate in the security comittee about what to do next. As I mentioned a few days ago, there has been an undeclared call up, but this too small to add to the military capability of Russia and the new troops are anyway insufficiently trained and are being thinly distributed in combat groups that are already heavily demoralised. The Russian losses may indeed be closer to the UA estimates of 28,000 dead than the 15,000 estimate of the British MoD. Diplomatic pressure on Moscow is not only coming from the West, but from China and even from supposed allies in Central Asia.

    We feel that something big is brewing in Moscow, but when this breaks remains to be seen. The Kremlin is slowily losing its freedom of action and the military crisis is inexorably leading to a political crisis.

    If Putin does keel over, any word on a likely replacement?

    I believe under the constitution Mishustin is still next in line but all the indications are he's a fairly peripheral figure. Any possible Khrushchevs to his Malenkov?
    Putin is clearly toast. I don't think anyone knows who might replace him though. It's just a vacuum.
    Nature abhors a vacuum.

    What worries me is it might be somebody worse. Sure, the Soviet leadership gradually improved from Stalin, but the Tsar to Lvov to Kerensky to Lenin to Stalin was definitely a series of backward steps (which is not based on any starry-eyed enthusiasm for the Tsar, Lvov, Kerensky or Lenin).
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    ydoethur said:



    To find out would take a lot of in depth work, I suspect. I would further suspect that the subject would have an effect on outcomes.

    The first question is how much the knowledge imparted at school is actually useful for the university degree. Then there are the generic skills in studying, learning, revising etc

    In mathematics, a professor at a Russell Group university I did an MPhil with, was forced to start remedial classes for a percentage of the students. This was because a number were not fluent at fairly basic mathematical operations - differentiation and integration. Worse, they had trouble identifying which mathematical "tools" to use on a problem. The issue there wasn't background, just that he was seeing students with A at maths A level with this situation.

    When was this? Wouldn't be surprised to learn it's still an issue today.

    It has got to the stage with our qualifications system that it is more or less impossible to do Maths A-level with an ordinary Maths GCSE. Which tells me somebody dropped an absolute bollock writing the spec.

    Similarly, History a-level is a very bad preparation for degree level study as I've outlined before. This is largely because all the advice academics working for OFQUAL gave was consciously rejected in favour of personal hobby horses.
    Personally I found my (American-based international) mathematics - all about manipulating numbers and formulae - almost entirely useless as a preparation for university maths (all about proving theorems), which in turn was almost entirely useless for the maths PhD (all about developing new theorems, however useless). A pity, since I took maths because I was good at it at school, and I'd probably have enjoyed something like history a lot more. I ended up in IT, like most of the students who I knew, regardless of what they studied.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    The latest military setbacks are placing the Russian forces in the Izyum pocket at considerable risk, yet there seems to be no attempt to extract troops from this danger, despite the fact that the new Ukrainian artillery has already demonstrated their enhanced capability. This maybe because the Russians cannot get them out, and this is the largest single force the Russians have in Ukraine, if so then there is a real risk that Izyum could become a decisive defeat for the invaders.

    The Russian response to the formal Finnish application to join NATO also has a few people scratching their heads here. Cutting off of Russian electricity supply has essentially no impact on Finland, whereas cutting off gas would have created problems. The implication is that this is simply a gesture, rather than anything substantive. The question is why the response is so low key, when the rhetoric coming from Moscow remains so determinedly bellicose. It seems that there is some uncertainty in Russia right now.

    What we are hearing is that the Kremlin is increasingly unable to take effective decisions, and that this could be the result of Putin´s rumoured health problems. Certainly it now seems that there is something of a debate in the security comittee about what to do next. As I mentioned a few days ago, there has been an undeclared call up, but this too small to add to the military capability of Russia and the new troops are anyway insufficiently trained and are being thinly distributed in combat groups that are already heavily demoralised. The Russian losses may indeed be closer to the UA estimates of 28,000 dead than the 15,000 estimate of the British MoD. Diplomatic pressure on Moscow is not only coming from the West, but from China and even from supposed allies in Central Asia.

    We feel that something big is brewing in Moscow, but when this breaks remains to be seen. The Kremlin is slowily losing its freedom of action and the military crisis is inexorably leading to a political crisis.

    If Putin does keel over, any word on a likely replacement?

    I believe under the constitution Mishustin is still next in line but all the indications are he's a fairly peripheral figure. Any possible Khrushchevs to his Malenkov?
    Putin is clearly toast. I don't think anyone knows who might replace him though. It's just a vacuum.
    Nature abhors a vacuum.

    What worries me is it might be somebody worse. Sure, the Soviet leadership gradually improved from Stalin, but the Tsar to Lvov to Kerensky to Lenin to Stalin was definitely a series of backward steps (which is not based on any starry-eyed enthusiasm for the Tsar, Lvov, Kerensky or Lenin).
    Actually nature seems pretty damn keen on vacuums. More or less anyway.

    I don't think it's likely that any new leader will be worse than Putin because Putin is obviously mad.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    To find out would take a lot of in depth work, I suspect. I would further suspect that the subject would have an effect on outcomes.

    The first question is how much the knowledge imparted at school is actually useful for the university degree. Then there are the generic skills in studying, learning, revising etc

    In mathematics, a professor at a Russell Group university I did an MPhil with, was forced to start remedial classes for a percentage of the students. This was because a number were not fluent at fairly basic mathematical operations - differentiation and integration. Worse, they had trouble identifying which mathematical "tools" to use on a problem. The issue there wasn't background, just that he was seeing students with A at maths A level with this situation.
    My medical school feeds back on its admissions via in course assessments, which is fairly straightforwrd when all students are on the same course compared to a multiplicity. Hence we have eliminated some stations at interview and introduced others. One thing that was dropped was the personal statement, as these were often ghost-written for the applicants. I am not aware of downgrading of private schooling as part of this though.

    I used to read personal statements (just don’t have time nowadays). I recall about two that stood out over the years, from hundreds. Mostly they are identykit that schools ‘think’ Unis want to see. In reality I couldn’t give a shit how many DoE expeditions the kid has done. I’d rather know what makes them different, what makes them them. Schools don’t seem to understand that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    The unsaid comment on the subject, is that it’s way, way easier to get into the Russell Group universities if you’re paying the full fees, rather than going through the internal UK UCAS system
    When I worked in HE, which was (a) not on the Russell Group and (b) in the days before caps were lifted, there were very large numbers of overseas students whose English and educational attainment wasn't up to standard for the uni (not on my courses so much, but in business and maths).

    It was a widely spoken officially unspoken secret that the uni recruited them as cash cows on inflated fees and outside capped numbers.

    Don't know whether that's still typical.
    A friend went to an interview at Oxbridge (not saying which one :-) ) for a PhD.

    At the end, he was told that his application was very interesting and they would get back to him....

    At which point he mentioned that, despite his British accent, he was an overseas student and would be paying full fees.

    They offered him the place on the spot.

    As he put it, the most expensive library card on Earth.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
    Didn't they say it was fully open in three parts, and Bond Street wouldn't be open. They've been hard pressed. How can Bond street not be ready - that'll be 5 years or so late!
    I will soon be able to leave my flat on Shaftesbury Avenue at 9am, and be through Security at at Heathrow Terminal 3, well before 10.

    In 2023, you will! From May 24th, you need to change trains at Paddington (Crossrail station to main line station).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    The latest military setbacks are placing the Russian forces in the Izyum pocket at considerable risk, yet there seems to be no attempt to extract troops from this danger, despite the fact that the new Ukrainian artillery has already demonstrated their enhanced capability. This maybe because the Russians cannot get them out, and this is the largest single force the Russians have in Ukraine, if so then there is a real risk that Izyum could become a decisive defeat for the invaders.

    The Russian response to the formal Finnish application to join NATO also has a few people scratching their heads here. Cutting off of Russian electricity supply has essentially no impact on Finland, whereas cutting off gas would have created problems. The implication is that this is simply a gesture, rather than anything substantive. The question is why the response is so low key, when the rhetoric coming from Moscow remains so determinedly bellicose. It seems that there is some uncertainty in Russia right now.

    What we are hearing is that the Kremlin is increasingly unable to take effective decisions, and that this could be the result of Putin´s rumoured health problems. Certainly it now seems that there is something of a debate in the security comittee about what to do next. As I mentioned a few days ago, there has been an undeclared call up, but this too small to add to the military capability of Russia and the new troops are anyway insufficiently trained and are being thinly distributed in combat groups that are already heavily demoralised. The Russian losses may indeed be closer to the UA estimates of 28,000 dead than the 15,000 estimate of the British MoD. Diplomatic pressure on Moscow is not only coming from the West, but from China and even from supposed allies in Central Asia.

    We feel that something big is brewing in Moscow, but when this breaks remains to be seen. The Kremlin is slowily losing its freedom of action and the military crisis is inexorably leading to a political crisis.

    If Putin does keel over, any word on a likely replacement?

    I believe under the constitution Mishustin is still next in line but all the indications are he's a fairly peripheral figure. Any possible Khrushchevs to his Malenkov?
    Putin is clearly toast. I don't think anyone knows who might replace him though. It's just a vacuum.
    Nature abhors a vacuum.

    What worries me is it might be somebody worse. Sure, the Soviet leadership gradually improved from Stalin, but the Tsar to Lvov to Kerensky to Lenin to Stalin was definitely a series of backward steps (which is not based on any starry-eyed enthusiasm for the Tsar, Lvov, Kerensky or Lenin).
    Certainly there are plenty of extreme RU nationalists around who see Putin as a ponceyboots. If one of them picks up the crown...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2022
    DavidL said:

    Lavrov seems to have downgraded Russian demands to “safety of people in eastern Ukraine”.

    https://twitter.com/russianembassy/status/1525883068074102792?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg

    In the last week the idea that Ukraine might actually win this war, as opposed to achieving a bloody and indecisive draw, has really gained momentum. The losses in the river crossing, the inability to wipe out those marines in Marisupal, the withdraws around Kharkiv, all seem to point to major problems. for the Russians.

    As I have said before though, be careful what you wish for. As Russia grows ever more desperate the risk of escalation to non conventional weapons increases exponentially. We live in very, very dangerous times with leadership that is less than optimal for such a situation.
    However I find it hard to believe anyone in the Russian elite, part from the possibly-dying Putin, actually wants this war, let alone any escalation to “nukes’ or “chemical attacks” or whatever

    If you are in the Russian elite you have - or you had - a pretty fantastic life. You are rich beyond imagining. You enjoy the fine fruits of western life - glam flats in London, yachts in Nice and Capri, holidays in the Cyclades and education for your kids at Eton and Harvard - and now this has all been taken away and for WHAT? So you can be hated by the world and lose most of your assets and face an increasingly restive Russian demos

    And now Putin risks going even further and simply killing everyone on earth

    I don’t believe more than a few dozen people in Russia want to risk this. Literally a handful of nutters. Meanwhile Putin’s madness means Russia will become a Chinese colony, if the world survives

    Mad Vlad must be in danger of losing all control. I bet the army hates him

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
    Didn't they say it was fully open in three parts, and Bond Street wouldn't be open. They've been hard pressed. How can Bond street not be ready - that'll be 5 years or so late!
    Ah, but two of those "three parts" are already open! Heathrow/Reading to Paddington (surface station), and Liverpool Street (surface station) to Shenfield.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    To find out would take a lot of in depth work, I suspect. I would further suspect that the subject would have an effect on outcomes.

    The first question is how much the knowledge imparted at school is actually useful for the university degree. Then there are the generic skills in studying, learning, revising etc

    In mathematics, a professor at a Russell Group university I did an MPhil with, was forced to start remedial classes for a percentage of the students. This was because a number were not fluent at fairly basic mathematical operations - differentiation and integration. Worse, they had trouble identifying which mathematical "tools" to use on a problem. The issue there wasn't background, just that he was seeing students with A at maths A level with this situation.
    My medical school feeds back on its admissions via in course assessments, which is fairly straightforwrd when all students are on the same course compared to a multiplicity. Hence we have eliminated some stations at interview and introduced others. One thing that was dropped was the personal statement, as these were often ghost-written for the applicants. I am not aware of downgrading of private schooling as part of this though.

    I used to read personal statements (just don’t have time nowadays). I recall about two that stood out over the years, from hundreds. Mostly they are identykit that schools ‘think’ Unis want to see. In reality I couldn’t give a shit how many DoE expeditions the kid has done. I’d rather know what makes them different, what makes them them. Schools don’t seem to understand that.
    When I first went into teaching I was stunned to find that some students spent more time writing their personal statements than doing their English coursework.

    When I asked why, I was assured it was really important they get it right as a good personal statement was vital for uni applications.

    In vain did I assure them it was unlikely to make the slightest difference...

    I think you would be horrified to still see how much time is wasted on those aforesaid identikit statements. Literally months of effort. For nothing.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
      

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    The latest military setbacks are placing the Russian forces in the Izyum pocket at considerable risk, yet there seems to be no attempt to extract troops from this danger, despite the fact that the new Ukrainian artillery has already demonstrated their enhanced capability. This maybe because the Russians cannot get them out, and this is the largest single force the Russians have in Ukraine, if so then there is a real risk that Izyum could become a decisive defeat for the invaders.

    The Russian response to the formal Finnish application to join NATO also has a few people scratching their heads here. Cutting off of Russian electricity supply has essentially no impact on Finland, whereas cutting off gas would have created problems. The implication is that this is simply a gesture, rather than anything substantive. The question is why the response is so low key, when the rhetoric coming from Moscow remains so determinedly bellicose. It seems that there is some uncertainty in Russia right now.

    What we are hearing is that the Kremlin is increasingly unable to take effective decisions, and that this could be the result of Putin´s rumoured health problems. Certainly it now seems that there is something of a debate in the security comittee about what to do next. As I mentioned a few days ago, there has been an undeclared call up, but this too small to add to the military capability of Russia and the new troops are anyway insufficiently trained and are being thinly distributed in combat groups that are already heavily demoralised. The Russian losses may indeed be closer to the UA estimates of 28,000 dead than the 15,000 estimate of the British MoD. Diplomatic pressure on Moscow is not only coming from the West, but from China and even from supposed allies in Central Asia.

    We feel that something big is brewing in Moscow, but when this breaks remains to be seen. The Kremlin is slowily losing its freedom of action and the military crisis is inexorably leading to a political crisis.

    If Putin does keel over, any word on a likely replacement?

    I believe under the constitution Mishustin is still next in line but all the indications are he's a fairly peripheral figure. Any possible Khrushchevs to his Malenkov?
    Putin is clearly toast. I don't think anyone knows who might replace him though. It's just a vacuum.
    Nature abhors a vacuum.

    What worries me is it might be somebody worse. Sure, the Soviet leadership gradually improved from Stalin, but the Tsar to Lvov to Kerensky to Lenin to Stalin was definitely a series of backward steps (which is not based on any starry-eyed enthusiasm for the Tsar, Lvov, Kerensky or Lenin).
    Certainly there are plenty of extreme RU nationalists around who see Putin as a ponceyboots. If one of them picks up the crown...
    On the other hand there is Navalny …

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,715
    kle4 said:

    Lavrov seems to have downgraded Russian demands to “safety of people in eastern Ukraine”.

    https://twitter.com/russianembassy/status/1525883068074102792?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg

    He's a master of being able to ignore what he, and his leader, were saying very clearly only months ago about the goals.
    He could try stopping bombing them. Just a suggestion...
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    ydoethur said:



    To find out would take a lot of in depth work, I suspect. I would further suspect that the subject would have an effect on outcomes.

    The first question is how much the knowledge imparted at school is actually useful for the university degree. Then there are the generic skills in studying, learning, revising etc

    In mathematics, a professor at a Russell Group university I did an MPhil with, was forced to start remedial classes for a percentage of the students. This was because a number were not fluent at fairly basic mathematical operations - differentiation and integration. Worse, they had trouble identifying which mathematical "tools" to use on a problem. The issue there wasn't background, just that he was seeing students with A at maths A level with this situation.

    When was this? Wouldn't be surprised to learn it's still an issue today.

    It has got to the stage with our qualifications system that it is more or less impossible to do Maths A-level with an ordinary Maths GCSE. Which tells me somebody dropped an absolute bollock writing the spec.

    Similarly, History a-level is a very bad preparation for degree level study as I've outlined before. This is largely because all the advice academics working for OFQUAL gave was consciously rejected in favour of personal hobby horses.
    Personally I found my (American-based international) mathematics - all about manipulating numbers and formulae - almost entirely useless as a preparation for university maths (all about proving theorems), which in turn was almost entirely useless for the maths PhD (all about developing new theorems, however useless). A pity, since I took maths because I was good at it at school, and I'd probably have enjoyed something like history a lot more. I ended up in IT, like most of the students who I knew, regardless of what they studied.
    And so ... during your PhD, you discovered Palmer's Theorem, which is ... what? Can it be stated succinctly ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    The unsaid comment on the subject, is that it’s way, way easier to get into the Russell Group universities if you’re paying the full fees, rather than going through the internal UK UCAS system
    When I worked in HE, which was (a) not on the Russell Group and (b) in the days before caps were lifted, there were very large numbers of overseas students whose English and educational attainment wasn't up to standard for the uni (not on my courses so much, but in business and maths).

    It was a widely spoken officially unspoken secret that the uni recruited them as cash cows on inflated fees and outside capped numbers.

    Don't know whether that's still typical.
    A friend went to an interview at Oxbridge (not saying which one :-) ) for a PhD.

    At the end, he was told that his application was very interesting and they would get back to him....

    At which point he mentioned that, despite his British accent, he was an overseas student and would be paying full fees.

    They offered him the place on the spot.

    As he put it, the most expensive library card on Earth.
    They bought him Bodley and soul?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    To find out would take a lot of in depth work, I suspect. I would further suspect that the subject would have an effect on outcomes.

    The first question is how much the knowledge imparted at school is actually useful for the university degree. Then there are the generic skills in studying, learning, revising etc

    In mathematics, a professor at a Russell Group university I did an MPhil with, was forced to start remedial classes for a percentage of the students. This was because a number were not fluent at fairly basic mathematical operations - differentiation and integration. Worse, they had trouble identifying which mathematical "tools" to use on a problem. The issue there wasn't background, just that he was seeing students with A at maths A level with this situation.
    Many of our intake (pharmacy) needs extra maths help, and the bits I teach (chemistry) sees some very low standards on arrival. Chemistry in particular suffers from a ‘lies to children’ approach where I need to tell them stuff they think they know is wrong.
    Favourite lie? Electrons as dots and crosses. Should be banned.
    The pluses and minuses version of physics saved the life of Marcus McDilda. Which may have accidentally led to a chain (ha!) of events that helped end WWII.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Lavrov seems to have downgraded Russian demands to “safety of people in eastern Ukraine”.

    https://twitter.com/russianembassy/status/1525883068074102792?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg

    In the last week the idea that Ukraine might actually win this war, as opposed to achieving a bloody and indecisive draw, has really gained momentum. The losses in the river crossing, the inability to wipe out those marines in Marisupal, the withdraws around Kharkiv, all seem to point to major problems. for the Russians.

    As I have said before though, be careful what you wish for. As Russia grows ever more desperate the risk of escalation to non conventional weapons increases exponentially. We live in very, very dangerous times with leadership that is less than optimal for such a situation.
    Although it's encouraging he only wants those in Eastern Ukraine to be safe. I mean, that's something the Russians could arrange tomorrow simply by getting their forces the fuck out of there.
    You are clearly forgetting the nazis and facists that Ukraine is allegedly run by.

    The Eurovision popular vote decision last night was truly stunning. From 39 countries (since you can't vote for yourself) the maximum vote was 468. Ukraine got 430 which might be explained by 20 firsts and 19 seconds. For all the money Russia spends on propaganda, bot farms and the like that is a truly catastrophic outcome.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Leon said:

    Super Greek salad, rustic bread, famous spring water, truly excellent veal in red wine, half a litre of fine local red, views across the immortal mountains, £17 total

    That was the price of one and a half gin and tonics in a grim bar in JFK last month

    I seem to recall some bloke on here going on about how rubbish was Greek cuisine. Wish I could remember who it was so you could enlighten him.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    As I sit at anchor in New Grimsby Sound enjoying a Tanqueray moment I cannot help deprecating the travelogue one upmanship which has infected PB

    I applaud PB’s new explorations of food and travel. I suspect they are also a diversion from the fucking terrible state of the world, whether you are talking British politics or, indeed, anything else
    Yes hoping to murder a Scillonian lobster in due course. Will report.
    Wonderful seafood down there. Enjoy

    Photo!
    Not set up for that ATM but will try to set up an Imgur account or something
    You just go on the Vanilla site and its a doddle. Chooses photos from your phone
    Test:

    Regrettably, in the past couple of weeks Vanilla has started obeying the metadata in phone photos which says which way up the phone was. And so, it rotates them on screen. It is a downgrade.
    Bugger! BTW it was a digital camera, not a phone.
    Anyway, tell us about the Elizabeth line…
    Um, OK!

    May 24th - Abbey Wood to Paddington (via Canary Wharf, Whitechapel etc.) opens. However, the links from Stratford to Whitechapel, and Paddington (Crossrail) to Acton, along with the new Bond Street platforms, don't open till 2023!
    Didn't they say it was fully open in three parts, and Bond Street wouldn't be open. They've been hard pressed. How can Bond street not be ready - that'll be 5 years or so late!
    Ah, but two of those "three parts" are already open! Heathrow/Reading to Paddington (surface station), and Liverpool Street (surface station) to Shenfield.
    The bits of Paddington that are Crossrail are a quite surreal ghost-town.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    The unsaid comment on the subject, is that it’s way, way easier to get into the Russell Group universities if you’re paying the full fees, rather than going through the internal UK UCAS system
    When I worked in HE, which was (a) not on the Russell Group and (b) in the days before caps were lifted, there were very large numbers of overseas students whose English and educational attainment wasn't up to standard for the uni (not on my courses so much, but in business and maths).

    It was a widely spoken officially unspoken secret that the uni recruited them as cash cows on inflated fees and outside capped numbers.

    Don't know whether that's still typical.
    A friend went to an interview at Oxbridge (not saying which one :-) ) for a PhD.

    At the end, he was told that his application was very interesting and they would get back to him....

    At which point he mentioned that, despite his British accent, he was an overseas student and would be paying full fees.

    They offered him the place on the spot.

    As he put it, the most expensive library card on Earth.
    They bought him Bodley and soul?
    He did like my version of British Academic Integrity -

    "These are my beliefs and principles. If you don't like them, well, I have others I can sell you, for the right price."
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Lavrov seems to have downgraded Russian demands to “safety of people in eastern Ukraine”.

    https://twitter.com/russianembassy/status/1525883068074102792?s=21&t=JzmqCAaelRzKfIsPgknGjg

    In the last week the idea that Ukraine might actually win this war, as opposed to achieving a bloody and indecisive draw, has really gained momentum. The losses in the river crossing, the inability to wipe out those marines in Marisupal, the withdraws around Kharkiv, all seem to point to major problems. for the Russians.

    As I have said before though, be careful what you wish for. As Russia grows ever more desperate the risk of escalation to non conventional weapons increases exponentially. We live in very, very dangerous times with leadership that is less than optimal for such a situation.
    Although it's encouraging he only wants those in Eastern Ukraine to be safe. I mean, that's something the Russians could arrange tomorrow simply by getting their forces the fuck out of there.
    You are clearly forgetting the nazis and facists that Ukraine is allegedly run by.

    The Eurovision popular vote decision last night was truly stunning. From 39 countries (since you can't vote for yourself) the maximum vote was 468. Ukraine got 430 which might be explained by 20 firsts and 19 seconds. For all the money Russia spends on propaganda, bot farms and the like that is a truly catastrophic outcome.
    439 points!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    The unsaid comment on the subject, is that it’s way, way easier to get into the Russell Group universities if you’re paying the full fees, rather than going through the internal UK UCAS system
    When I worked in HE, which was (a) not on the Russell Group and (b) in the days before caps were lifted, there were very large numbers of overseas students whose English and educational attainment wasn't up to standard for the uni (not on my courses so much, but in business and maths).

    It was a widely spoken officially unspoken secret that the uni recruited them as cash cows on inflated fees and outside capped numbers.

    Don't know whether that's still typical.
    A friend went to an interview at Oxbridge (not saying which one :-) ) for a PhD.

    At the end, he was told that his application was very interesting and they would get back to him....

    At which point he mentioned that, despite his British accent, he was an overseas student and would be paying full fees.

    They offered him the place on the spot.

    As he put it, the most expensive library card on Earth.
    They bought him Bodley and soul?
    He did like my version of British Academic Integrity -

    "These are my beliefs and principles. If you don't like them, well, I have others I can sell you, for the right price."
    Full Marx for that insight.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Nadhim Zahawi for next PM, he finally speaks on the last acceptable bigotry, the persecution of the privately educated.

    Nadhim Zahawi: Oxbridge shouldn’t ‘tilt the system’ to favour state schools

    Education Secretary says UK should be ‘proud’ of its private schools as Education Select Committee chair says ‘meritocracy’ is still lacking


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/14/nadhim-zahawi-oxbridge-shouldnt-tilt-system-favour-state-schools/

    Ha ha who said satire is dead.
    I'm the grandson of humble immigrants to this country, it was a private education that allowed my father and myself to flourish and succeed in this country.
    Wonderful stuff indeed. That means people cannot critique overrepresentation of the public school educated?
    The latest fashion is for your children to be tutored personally through A levels - 4 subjects, 4 tutors, while “attending” a local state institution.

    This is cheaper than private school and allows you to claim that your are a member of the Head Count.

    The state schools play along, to the point of not reporting absence, since having a child with 4 predicted A************* and going to a top university makes you look better…..
    There’s an interesting rule for UK expatriates, that one must be resident in the UK for two years before university admission, in order to “take advantage” of the UK uni fees schedule.

    Until a few years ago, this would lead to expatriate parents moving back to the UK as their kids approached GCSEs, but now it’s resulting in their decision to remain expatriates and deal with the ‘overseas’ fees, because of the discrimination against private schools.
    I'm always slightly nervous about calling the discrimination card without clear evidence. I'm also well aware that when I was at Cambridge, from a State school, 1992-95 then there was an awful lot of the same noise about how Private school pupils were disadvantage.

    The issue I had was that - at that time - those colleges with the highest proportion of State pupils (Trinity and Kings) were top of the Topkins Table (i.e. got the most Firsts).

    Because it seems like it would be pretty easy to see if less talented - on average - people were coming from the State schools. Simply: does a 21 year old from a private school achieve better academic results (on average) or not.

    If one judged (and incentivized) the Colleges on output, then it would clearly be in their interests to attract those with the most potential.

    And, fwiw, I suspect that would mean that (on average) State school pupils would come in with slightly lower grades, because they would be less likely to have fully achieved their potential.
    The unsaid comment on the subject, is that it’s way, way easier to get into the Russell Group universities if you’re paying the full fees, rather than going through the internal UK UCAS system
    When I worked in HE, which was (a) not on the Russell Group and (b) in the days before caps were lifted, there were very large numbers of overseas students whose English and educational attainment wasn't up to standard for the uni (not on my courses so much, but in business and maths).

    It was a widely spoken officially unspoken secret that the uni recruited them as cash cows on inflated fees and outside capped numbers.

    Don't know whether that's still typical.
    A friend went to an interview at Oxbridge (not saying which one :-) ) for a PhD.

    At the end, he was told that his application was very interesting and they would get back to him....

    At which point he mentioned that, despite his British accent, he was an overseas student and would be paying full fees.

    They offered him the place on the spot.

    As he put it, the most expensive library card on Earth.
    They bought him Bodley and soul?
    He did like my version of British Academic Integrity -

    "These are my beliefs and principles. If you don't like them, well, I have others I can sell you, for the right price."
    Full Marx for that insight.
    Good to see that you aren't OF(STED) your punning game.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    @SJAMcBride
    Boris Johnson has written a 2,200-word essay for tomorrow's @BelTel in which he sets out his Northern Ireland policy in multiple areas - Irish language, SF FM, abortion, Troubles amnesty & lots on the protocol. Much more interesting than such pieces from politicians tend to be.


    https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1525907695664091136
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Test
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    Test

    I think you've tested positive!
This discussion has been closed.