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Vulnerable and quadruple jabbed yet I still got COVID – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,244
    HYUFD said:

    Not in deep Red states as most voters there are anti abortion, though it might drive up Democrat turnout in blue and purple states which are more pro choice
    Not as simple as that.
    https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/

    And of course those figures are before an abortion ban.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935
    MattW said:

    It could have been an elephant trap by the Mail for Dorries.

    Use an old 2019 picture, caption it "last year", and crop it so that the recognisable but now dead bloke is not on the newspaper version.

    Lesson: Easy mistake to make (remember all those fake pictures of empty shelves retweeted by which were actually from Mar 2020 not 2021) you are responsible for stuff you retweet, and people like ND with armies of minitrolls can't afford to get it even slightly wrong.

    Does the DM have a reason to dislike ND?
    Eh? How would the DM know in advance that ND would retweet their article? Then refuse to take it down or clarify?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Boris must go but he is recognised by Ukraine and their President for the support they have received in their fight against the war criminal that is Putin

    Boris broke the covid rules and there is no dispute about that

    Starmer may or may not have broken covid rules but they lied about Rayners's attendance and he looks uncomfortable when being asked questions by journalists. The media will no doubt only be satisfied when he agrees to a review and interview by Durham Police but as one voter said this morning, 'they are all the same' and that is a fairly widespread view
    SKS didn't break the covid rules. And is being wrong about one person attending one of very many meetings receding into memory, in a busy day, a crime?

    I think you ought to report yourself to the police for not ebing able to tell us instantly what size of spanner the lady on Mr Parrish's tractor movie was holding.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,173
    Russia is now picking a fight with Israel.

    https://twitter.com/maxfras/status/1521412528810643456

    image
  • American federalism in this instance means that while Oklahoma can vote to ban abortions, Washington State can vote to keep abortion legal under state law. And OK cannot stop women from traveling to WA. Not cost free, but not impossible. This is safety valve for anti-abortion state, as for Ireland.
    Indeed, not impossible but a lot more expensive I imagine.

    Oklahoma to Washington State is over 1800 miles. A lot of the 22/26 states looking to ban abortion are contiguous meaning the distance some poor (literally and figuratively) women would have to travel to get basic healthcare rights is quite immense, a lot longer than eg the ferry ride from Belfast to Liverpool.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,756
    edited May 2022

    Russia is now picking a fight with Israel.

    https://twitter.com/maxfras/status/1521412528810643456

    image

    "Mr Z, do you need any help blowing up a bridge?"

    Unlikely, unfortunately.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Oh yes this is quite comparable to stock photos of empty shelves, I wonder if anyone else had already made that connection or if its all dissonance. Oh wait ...

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.

    I made that connection myself. No dissonance here thank you. I have never (to the best of my knowledge) complained about stock imagery being used to adorn articles, although if someone were to pretend a stock image wasn't a stock image, that should be pointed out.
    I know: that's exactly why I said "some". I could have excluded you explicitly, but I didn't want to out you as a Tory without permission.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,119

    I agree - which is why I support changing the nil rate n the Tory revenue tax and not the imposition of a windfall tax. Its lazy politics by the parties proposing it (my own included).

    So why are they doing so? Because they know there is zero chance of any money being raised by BP et al, so just use that reality as a stick to beat the Tories with.
    If the government increase the Petroleum Revenue Tax they will call it a windfall tax, same as Labour would if they won a snap GE.

    Windfall tax is simple politics to talk about, the details of the implementation are just that, details. You're reading too much into an imagined difference.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    SKS didn't break the covid rules. And is being wrong about one person attending one of very many meetings receding into memory, in a busy day, a crime?

    I think you ought to report yourself to the police for not ebing able to tell us instantly what size of spanner the lady on Mr Parrish's tractor movie was holding.
    Worse than a crime - a blunder.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,821
    IshmaelZ said:

    Which sounds like an inaccurate precis of the Rocky Horrow Picture Show
    Yeah. We await SKS in basque and stockings
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Which sounds like an inaccurate precis of the Rocky Horrow Picture Show
    You mean politics is stuck in a Time Warp?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Because the fons et origo of the idiocy, petulance and dishonesty is a Cabinet minister (with responsibility, incidentally, for the meejah).. Or is it your case that attaching cropped stock photos to tweets is SOP, nothing to see here, move along?
    Yes attaching stock photos to newspaper articles is 100% absolutely SOP.

    Tweets sharing the images in the articles, which are typically stock images, is also SOP.

    If newspaper articles couldn't use stock photos, and if stock photos couldn't be shared on Twitter, there'd be a lot less imagery adorning said articles going forwards.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,756
    edited May 2022

    Eh? How would the DM know in advance that ND would retweet their article? Then refuse to take it down or clarify?
    Perhaps they read her twitter feed!

    Just conspiralooing :smiley:

  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,241

    Excellent that you're on the mend, Mike - hope your wife is better soon too.

    Not sure if we've covered this - can't see it on the thread?

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_localelectionpoll_20220503.html

    Terrible for expectations management for Labour (Westminster!), but the methodology does look convincing. Roll on Thursday!

    Incidentally, I'm astonished by the predicted halving of Green representation. I think this may underestimate the power of incumbency for small parties - when you actually hold the seat, it's hard for anyone to say it's a wasted vote.

    I realise that doubting the sainted Baxter is considered close to heresy round here, but Electoral Calculus never passes the smell test for me - whenever I look at its projections for anywhere I know at all, they are significantly, sometimes wildly out. It's difficult to put a finger on why, but I suspect it underestimates both incumbency and tactical voting behaviour.

    For Westminster elections I greatly preferred Flavible, but that hasn't been updated since last autumn and seems to be on the back burner at present: https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1462225206240587788
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421
    kjh said:

    I agree generally, but sometimes local factors are a bigger aspect as you point out re Tunbridge Wells. That is certainly the case with Guildford. Guildford is not LD controlled. It is in coalition with Indies and the Indies made the bigger wins (some wards by huge margins eg mine). This was because of Tory scandals and the local plan. You only have to speak to Mole Valley Tories to find out about what happened to the Guildford Tories. No love lost at the time.

    Re Tunbridge Wells - I have no knowledge although I used to live in Crowborough but lost contact now. A lovely area in which I believe you used to live also.
    Remind me, what went down in Guildford? In Woking, the attitude of the council has been "it's either tower blocks or building houses on green spaces and golf courses."

    But I don't see any tower blocks in Guildford, so I guess they went for new housing estates like this one:

    https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/new-homes/guildford/montague-place
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    Carnyx said:

    SKS didn't break the covid rules. And is being wrong about one person attending one of very many meetings receding into memory, in a busy day, a crime?

    I think you ought to report yourself to the police for not ebing able to tell us instantly what size of spanner the lady on Mr Parrish's tractor movie was holding.
    Starmer saying he didn't break the covid regulations is being challenged by Richard Holden, MP, the mail and others including 2 students who want the police to review the video they took

    There is nothing unreasonable about questioning the veracity of those events
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,173
    Sandpit said:

    You mean politics is stuck in a Time Warp?
    It's just a jump to the left and then a step to the right.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    dixiedean said:

    Hoosier has a movie of the name about a basketball team which helped cement the identity. I saw it on a plane in the days when there was no choice.
    Hoser was made famous by Bob and Doug on SNL. It means loser. From the convention that losing hockey teams at very low levels were responsible for hosing down the ice to be zambonied for the next game.
    Re: Hoosiers, you're putting the cart before the horse, the identity was well-cemented before the movie, which was a BIG hit in Indiana as was emblematic of local folks myths, centered around THE state sport of baskeball.

    As for hosers, think what you're giving is back-handed etymology, like "who's there?" for "hoosier".

    That is, an explanation after the fact, that has little or zero relationship to how the word came to be, but makes "sense" in modern language and context. But will defer to actual hockey players!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    edited May 2022
    Nigelb said:

    A good question, with a complicated answer.
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/five-myths-about-nato-and-afghanistan
    What a crappy article with many false premises and strawmen. Not addressing the point that NATO was there as an aggressor because no NATO state was at risk.

    Also, having listened to Richard Shireff, ex Dep Comd SACEUR say how the UK should step up against Russia, that UK defense forces should be hosed with more money, and that "UK society should prepare itself" or words to that effect the credibility which anyone should give to: "four dozen former senior U.S. and NATO military and political officials, including SACEURs, undersecretaries of defense, deputy assistant secretaries, members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, CENTCOM, the NATO Military Committee and national chiefs of defense" is tiny.

    Of course they are going to tell it how they want you to think it went.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,317
    HYUFD said:

    Not in deep Red states as most voters there are anti abortion, though it might drive up Democrat turnout in blue and purple states which are more pro choice
    But they were voting Republican anyway. It will motivate Democrats and Independents and maybe some Republicans who think 'For the grace of God that could be me'.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,317
    Glad you're over the Covid, Mike.

    The vaccines have disappointed? - No, I don't think so. I got it despite being vaxxed and had an unpleasant couple of weeks. It was quite nasty. But it was never scary. Eg I was never worried about hospital. This is the most important thing about vaccination and it works.
  • TOPPING said:

    What a crappy article with many false premises and strawmen. Not addressing the point that NATO was there as an aggressor because no NATO state was at risk.

    Also, having listened to Richard Shireff, ex Dep Comd SACEUR say how the UK should step up against Russia, that UK defense forces should be hosed with more money, and that "UK society should prepare itself" or words to that effect the credibility which anyone should give to: "four dozen former senior U.S. and NATO military and political officials, including SACEURs, undersecretaries of defense, deputy assistant secretaries, members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, CENTCOM, the NATO Military Committee and national chiefs of defense" is tiny.

    Of course they are going to tell it how they want you to think it went.
    NATO was not an aggressor, if it arrived in Afghanistan in 2005 then it was invited in by the Afghani government.

    Being invited in by the government of a state does not make you an aggressor.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Starmer saying he didn't break the covid regulations is being challenged by Richard Holden, MP, the mail and others including 2 students who want the police to review the video they took

    There is nothing unreasonable about questioning the veracity of those events
    I don’t know why Labour continues with this line that it doesn’t matter and there is nothing to see here. If there was truly nothing, you think they would have a better argument. It’s clear from yours - who is not a Tory-at-any-cost voter - plus arguably the Best PM polling that the voters are sceptical of Labour’s stance. Blaming it on the machinations of the Daily Mail is a lazy argument.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    tlg86 said:

    Remind me, what went down in Guildford? In Woking, the attitude of the council has been "it's either tower blocks or building houses on green spaces and golf courses."

    But I don't see any tower blocks in Guildford, so I guess they went for new housing estates like this one:

    https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/new-homes/guildford/montague-place
    Wow. That development is is Worpleston, which is about an hour’s walk from Guildford centre, and sold at a value £485,000 for a 2-bed mid-terrace!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,756
    edited May 2022
    Carnyx said:

    I know: that's exactly why I said "some". I could have excluded you explicitly, but I didn't want to out you as a Tory without permission.
    Since I think I made the reference to photos of empty shelves - it was actually about people on Twitter retweeting things without checking the content for being genuine.

    And the photos of empty shelves is an excellent comparator as they have been everywhere. Though TBF the photo reverse search tools etc have come a long way in a very short time.

    It's quite a tricky mistake never to make if you do a lot of retweeting.

    On the stock photos in articles, imo the DM should have identified the source of the pic clearly in the piece as a basic editorial practice.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,528

    Boris must go but he is recognised by Ukraine and their President for the support they have received in their fight against the war criminal that is Putin

    Boris broke the covid rules and there is no dispute about that

    Starmer may or may not have broken covid rules but they lied about Rayners's attendance and he looks uncomfortable when being asked questions by journalists. The media will no doubt only be satisfied when he agrees to a review and interview by Durham Police but as one voter said this morning, 'they are all the same' and that is a fairly widespread view
    He cannot agree to an interview with Durham Police because Durham Police have said there is nothing to investigate. Lets assume it does happen because a minister tells them so:
    PLOD: We have reviewed again this video of you at this event. Can you confirm its purpose?
    KIER: It was a campaign event.
    PLOD: Thanks
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    Dura_Ace said:

    It'll be a relief for you when the locals are over and you can stop going on about it.
    I doubt those pursuing the story including the media will just go away because it is inconvenient for labour
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,695
    Wow. Sounds like PM's GMB interview was an absolute car crash.


    Adam Bienkov
    @AdamBienkov
    ·
    1h
    Replying to
    @AdamBienkov
    Susanna Reid told Boris Johnson that 77-year-old Elsie stays on the buses all day in order to stay warm and use less energy. Johnson responds by congratulating himself for making freedom passes 24 hours. Quite extraordinary.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1521396481265221632
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    Starmer saying he didn't break the covid regulations is being challenged by Richard Holden, MP, the mail and others including 2 students who want the police to review the video they took

    There is nothing unreasonable about questioning the veracity of those events
    Mad Nad tweeting a picture of him eating curry during lockdown is surely proof.

    Also great news that the late Frank Dobson was also present despite being cremated in 2019.

    Would have thought SKS sharing a table with an actual Socialist was also a give away that it was before lockdown and of course before he lied his way to being leader..
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Starmer saying he didn't break the covid regulations is being challenged by Richard Holden, MP, the mail and others including 2 students who want the police to review the video they took

    There is nothing unreasonable about questioning the veracity of those events
    Doesn't mean that Mr Holden is right, still less the DM. Timing, remember.We've had this beer bottle story for many months, so why are they coming out of the woodwork now? As DA says it's all about the election and how much shite can be flung before then.

    It's shameful to see you defending the DM and the Tories' approach to fair and measured political debate of the issues of the day.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Indeed, not impossible but a lot more expensive I imagine.

    Oklahoma to Washington State is over 1800 miles. A lot of the 22/26 states looking to ban abortion are contiguous meaning the distance some poor (literally and figuratively) women would have to travel to get basic healthcare rights is quite immense, a lot longer than eg the ferry ride from Belfast to Liverpool.
    Didn't say it was a walk to the park, just possible. Also keep in mind, in America we think nothing of driving or riding in a car or bus all day, not if we're going somewhere we want to get.

    My counter was to your implying it can't be done. It can be, and is. That does NOT justify making it harder for poor women to obtain their right to health care AND to choose.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    NATO was not an aggressor, if it arrived in Afghanistan in 2005 then it was invited in by the Afghani government.

    Being invited in by the government of a state does not make you an aggressor.
    It means that NATO took sides with the Afghan govt and hence conducted an aggressive war against the Taleban. Which of course it lost but that's another discussion.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Russia is now picking a fight with Israel.

    https://twitter.com/maxfras/status/1521412528810643456

    image

    One more country in the Middle East that’s no longer going to be neutral in this conflict.

    (Waits for Lavrov to re-ignite the tensions with the OPEC Gulf States over oil production).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,756
    After all that - glad you have improved, Mike.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421
    Sandpit said:

    Wow. That development is is Worpleston, which is about an hour’s walk from Guildford centre, and sold at a value £485,000 for a 2-bed mid-terrace!
    Yes, I'm not rushing down there to put in an offer.
  • TOPPING said:

    It means that NATO took sides with the Afghan govt and hence conducted an aggressive war against the Taleban. Which of course it lost but that's another discussion.
    In 2005 it was a defensive war against the Taleban, not an aggressive war.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Carnyx said:

    Doesn't mean that Mr Holden is right, still less the DM. Timing, remember.We've had this beer bottle story for many months, so why are they coming out of the woodwork now? As DA says it's all about the election and how much shite can be flung before then.

    It's shameful to see you defending the DM and the Tories' approach to fair and measured political debate of the issues of the day.

    The PM being delivered a birthday cake, was reported in the Times the day after it happened. Didn’t stop it suddenly becoming a story 18 months later.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    I doubt those pursuing the story including the media will just go away because it is inconvenient for labour
    YOu mean, convenient for Mr Johnson. Not quite the same thing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,292
    edited May 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Not as simple as that.
    https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/views-about-abortion/by/state/

    And of course those figures are before an abortion ban.
    So even on those figures majorities of voters in Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Dakota, Utah and Tennessee for example want to ban abortion which US Federal law currently prevents the Republican governor and Republican state they have elected from doing due to a previous SC ruling
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,695
    Wait until Johnson finds out he can't privatise ITV as punishment for his disaster of an interview.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,756

    If the government increase the Petroleum Revenue Tax they will call it a windfall tax, same as Labour would if they won a snap GE.

    Windfall tax is simple politics to talk about, the details of the implementation are just that, details. You're reading too much into an imagined difference.
    Thank-you.

    All helpful.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Sandpit said:

    The PM being delivered a birthday cake, was reported in the Times the day after it happened. Didn’t stop it suddenly becoming a story 18 months later.
    Man is delivered cake on his birthday = not news.
    Man does it while breaking his own covid rules and this only becomes clear later = news later.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,528

    Starmer saying he didn't break the covid regulations is being challenged by Richard Holden, MP, the mail and others including 2 students who want the police to review the video they took

    There is nothing unreasonable about questioning the veracity of those events
    Sure! But Richard Holden has provided no new evidence. The two students have provided no new evidence. Cases do get reopened and re-examined but there has to be a reason to do so.

    I don't know how else to explain this to you. Policing is evidence-based. The police have investigated the complain and investigated the evidence. Making the same complaint about the same evidence doesn't create a new line of enquiry. #

    What could be done is that people could put in a complaint about the police that they have not properly carried out their duties. Which would be at least initially an internal investigation. As far as I know that hasn't been requested. Why not if the pursuit of justice is the motive and the complainants believe an actual crime has been committed?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,821

    Re: Hoosiers, you're putting the cart before the horse, the identity was well-cemented before the movie, which was a BIG hit in Indiana as was emblematic of local folks myths, centered around THE state sport of baskeball.

    As for hosers, think what you're giving is back-handed etymology, like "who's there?" for "hoosier".

    That is, an explanation after the fact, that has little or zero relationship to how the word came to be, but makes "sense" in modern language and context. But will defer to actual hockey players!
    Wiki seems to give first written use of "hoser" as 1981. But like most words it would have probably been in use long before that. See also "Shakespeare invented loads of words".
    No he didn't. He was the first to write down what his audience were saying. Otherwise how would your average Elizabethan punter have known what he was on about?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoser
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,884

    Hmm, Tomb Raider's been sold for $300m. Be interesting to see what angle the new games go... though I fear the games as a service nonsense may rear its ugly head.

    I can connect this story with trans issues, via an old nutty company and our nasty media.

    (Ku)Eidos to anyone else who can. ;)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    Carnyx said:

    Doesn't mean that Mr Holden is right, still less the DM. Timing, remember.We've had this beer bottle story for many months, so why are they coming out of the woodwork now? As DA says it's all about the election and how much shite can be flung before then.

    It's shameful to see you defending the DM and the Tories' approach to fair and measured political debate of the issues of the day.

    Starmer has brought this on himself ,and you need to remember that while I want Boris out of office today if possible, I am still a conservative voter by nature and am not just going to quietly go away and indeed there are a great many conservative mps across the party who are, and will continue to, seek answers to this episode

  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kjh said:

    But they were voting Republican anyway. It will motivate Democrats and Independents and maybe some Republicans who think 'For the grace of God that could be me'.
    Not sure about that and I think it’s lazy to make that assumption.

    Sure, it will motivate white, middle class educated liberals to vote and get out their Handmaiden Tale’s outfits. But the Democrats have them anyway and they are concentrated in already heavily Blue areas.

    However, there is a fair chunk of the Democrat base - particularly Black but also a good chunk of the Hispanic vote - which is socially conservative but votes Democrat.

    Turn this into a supercharger electoral issue and you might find a good chunk of those voters decide to exit the Democrat base.

    Then there is @SeaShantyIrish2’s point. People in the States are used to flying large distances for regular routine visits to see family etc given air travel is so connected. It actually takes nearly twice as long to get from Belfast to Liverpool by ferry than from Mobile Alabama to Boston MA. So saying people having to travel to get abortions is not going to be seen as necessarily an unreasonable point @BartholomewRoberts thinks to many people.

    In any event, I think what happens is that you get springing up a whole organisational network (and funding the cost) helping women who want abortions from banned states to those where it is not.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,292
    edited May 2022
    kjh said:

    I agree generally, but sometimes local factors are a bigger aspect as you point out re Tunbridge Wells. That is certainly the case with Guildford. Guildford is not LD controlled. It is in coalition with Indies and the Indies made the bigger wins (some wards by huge margins eg mine). This was because of Tory scandals and the local plan. You only have to speak to Mole Valley Tories to find out about what happened to the Guildford Tories. No love lost at the time.

    Re Tunbridge Wells - I have no knowledge although I used to live in Crowborough but lost contact now. A lovely area in which I believe you used to live also.
    Yes and where the Tories are currently in minority control they are likely to lose to LDs and Independents like Guildford on Thursday.

    The LDs now are largest party in Remain Mole Valley too with 22 seats to 12 for the Tories

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Mole_Valley_District_Council_election
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    Sure! But Richard Holden has provided no new evidence. The two students have provided no new evidence. Cases do get reopened and re-examined but there has to be a reason to do so.

    I don't know how else to explain this to you. Policing is evidence-based. The police have investigated the complain and investigated the evidence. Making the same complaint about the same evidence doesn't create a new line of enquiry. #

    What could be done is that people could put in a complaint about the police that they have not properly carried out their duties. Which would be at least initially an internal investigation. As far as I know that hasn't been requested. Why not if the pursuit of justice is the motive and the complainants believe an actual crime has been committed?
    Native has downstreamed some new evidence.
  • MalcolmDunnMalcolmDunn Posts: 139
    Glad you're better Mike. But is it really true that who've had four injections really get covid any more mildly than those who have only had three or fewer? Perhaps the disease is just not very lethal anymore? It never really was for the under 60's anyway.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Starmer has brought this on himself ,and you need to remember that while I want Boris out of office today if possible, I am still a conservative voter by nature and am not just going to quietly go away and indeed there are a great many conservative mps across the party who are, and will continue to, seek answers to this episode

    You mean, he's committed the political crime of not being liked by you? As the police investigated at the time - which is a damn sight more than they did for No 10 - it's difficult to see what else you can condemn him for.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,695
    Good on Susanna Reid for asking about the rise in Carer's Allowance the level of which the PM did not know.

    It is now £69.70 a week.

    It was £67.60.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    edited May 2022

    In 2005 it was a defensive war against the Taleban, not an aggressive war.
    The Afghan campaign (rightly or wrongly - as I said, certainly unsuccessfully) was about picking a side and conducting a war of extreme aggression against the other side.

    I know we have had this discussion previously when the villagers or wedding attendee victims of various NATO missile strikes should, in your opinion, have been grateful that they were obliterated in the cause of what you think was a defensive war but really, it was a war of aggression.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,920
    dixiedean said:

    Yeah. We await SKS in basque and stockings
    It was great when it all began
    I was a regular starmer fan
    But it was over when he had a Plan
    To breach lockdown rules and have a curry.

    Appreciate it doesn’t scan. But hey Ho.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786

    Sure! But Richard Holden has provided no new evidence. The two students have provided no new evidence. Cases do get reopened and re-examined but there has to be a reason to do so.

    I don't know how else to explain this to you. Policing is evidence-based. The police have investigated the complain and investigated the evidence. Making the same complaint about the same evidence doesn't create a new line of enquiry. #

    What could be done is that people could put in a complaint about the police that they have not properly carried out their duties. Which would be at least initially an internal investigation. As far as I know that hasn't been requested. Why not if the pursuit of justice is the motive and the complainants believe an actual crime has been committed?
    Durham Police have not responded to Richard Holden's letter and as we know these matters take time.

    Once that response is known then I would expect either the police will undertake a review or as you rightly say a complaint that the police have not acted properly could be quite likely
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,821
    OT a bit.
    But Whitley Bay seems a strange choice to be campaigning in.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Carnyx said:

    Man is delivered cake on his birthday = not news.
    Man does it while breaking his own covid rules and this only becomes clear later = news later.
    Why wasn't it clear at the time? The details as reported in the Times the following day don't appear to be substantively different from what is known now.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,920

    Sure! But Richard Holden has provided no new evidence. The two students have provided no new evidence. Cases do get reopened and re-examined but there has to be a reason to do so.

    I don't know how else to explain this to you. Policing is evidence-based. The police have investigated the complain and investigated the evidence. Making the same complaint about the same evidence doesn't create a new line of enquiry. #

    What could be done is that people could put in a complaint about the police that they have not properly carried out their duties. Which would be at least initially an internal investigation. As far as I know that hasn't been requested. Why not if the pursuit of justice is the motive and the complainants believe an actual crime has been committed?
    The only new evidence seems to be Rayner being there too. If it was legal before I do not see how this changes it.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    Glad you're better Mike. But is it really true that who've had four injections really get covid any more mildly than those who have only had three or fewer? Perhaps the disease is just not very lethal anymore? It never really was for the under 60's anyway.

    Omicron is inherently less severe to a given unvaccinated / naive immune system patient. But it’s higher infectiousness means it can quickly cause a massive clusterduck in a naive population. See China. The vaccine programme / prior infection in the West mean that covid isn’t something here people think about much. But in China it’s causing as big an impact on life as it ever did.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,714

    Starmer has brought this on himself ,and you need to remember that while I want Boris out of office today if possible, I am still a conservative voter by nature and am not just going to quietly go away and indeed there are a great many conservative mps across the party who are, and will continue to, seek answers to this episode

    You really are obsessed by this beergate/currygate thing - never seen so many posts on so little. Do you think Durham police are reading this? If not, why can't you just patiently wait and see what happens? If Starmer has committed gross crimes, the truth will out I'm sure.
  • MalcolmDunnMalcolmDunn Posts: 139
    Personally I wish the Daily Mail all the luck in the world in its quest to show that Starmer is a Grade A hypocrite and probably dishonest about covid rulebreaking too.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    on topic

    Glad you are feeling better Mike. Hope Mrs S recovers soon.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,096
    Probably not the headline they were aiming for...

    🔴Boris Johnson admits Government not doing enough on cost-of-living crisis

    Follow all the latest updates on our politics liveblog here 👇

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/05/03/boris-johnson-news-ukraine-keir-starmer-local-elections/ https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1521420230320340992/photo/1
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Applicant said:

    Why wasn't it clear at the time? The details as reported in the Times the following day don't appear to be substantively different from what is known now.
    Cake in itself doesn't mean anything - it could have been part of a working lunch within the bubble, ditto a glass of wine with lunch as BR pointed out. It was the details of the meeting/event (non workers, social to some degree). And the other events as well on different dates.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Durham Police have not responded to Richard Holden's letter and as we know these matters take time.

    Once that response is known then I would expect either the police will undertake a review or as you rightly say a complaint that the police have not acted properly could be quite likely
    "expect".

    You are assuming the police will lift a finger. So much for decency and justice in the Conservative mentality.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    dixiedean said:

    OT a bit.
    But Whitley Bay seems a strange choice to be campaigning in.

    Northern town, close to a massive new investment in a battery factory creating 3,000 jobs. A good example of levelling-up for the government to showcase.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,261
    MrEd said:

    Not sure about that and I think it’s lazy to make that assumption.

    Sure, it will motivate white, middle class educated liberals to vote and get out their Handmaiden Tale’s outfits. But the Democrats have them anyway and they are concentrated in already heavily Blue areas.

    However, there is a fair chunk of the Democrat base - particularly Black but also a good chunk of the Hispanic vote - which is socially conservative but votes Democrat.

    Turn this into a supercharger electoral issue and you might find a good chunk of those voters decide to exit the Democrat base.

    Then there is @SeaShantyIrish2’s point. People in the States are used to flying large distances for regular routine visits to see family etc given air travel is so connected. It actually takes nearly twice as long to get from Belfast to Liverpool by ferry than from Mobile Alabama to Boston MA. So saying people having to travel to get abortions is not going to be seen as necessarily an unreasonable point @BartholomewRoberts thinks to many people.

    In any event, I think what happens is that you get springing up a whole organisational network (and funding the cost) helping women who want abortions from banned states to those where it is not.
    About two thirds of American voters don't want Roe vs Wade overturned, according to the polls. So if there are Democratic voters who are anti-abortion, there must be even more Republicans who are pro-abortion. I suspect this move will backfire on the Republicans, who will have to go on the airwaves to defend this policy every time a thirteen year old gets raped by her uncle then dies in childbirth.
    Abortion will still happen anyway, just like it always did; the rich will find a friendly doctor willing to do it for the right price, while the poor will find some pills on the Internet or risk sepsis with a coat hanger. All brought to you by Donald Trump, a man who probably kept half on NYC's abortionists in business during the 1980s.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,920
    Sandpit said:

    Northern town, close to a massive new investment in a battery factory creating 3,000 jobs. A good example of levelling-up for the government to showcase.
    True but the Tories have no chance at all of taking North Tyneside council.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    edited May 2022

    You really are obsessed by this beergate/currygate thing - never seen so many posts on so little. Do you think Durham police are reading this? If not, why can't you just patiently wait and see what happens? If Starmer has committed gross crimes, the truth will out I'm sure.
    Starmer has not committed a gross crime, indeed breaking covid regulations itself results in a FPN which is not registered as a crime

    As far as raising the issue it was Sky and Kay Burley/ Tamara Cohen who raised it throughout their morning programme but it seems the very mention of it is like lighting a touch paper to labour supporters

    This is Sky's report this morning

    https://news.sky.com/story/durham-police-should-reopen-investigation-into-sir-keir-starmer-lockdown-beers-footage-minister-says-12604490
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,330
    dixiedean said:

    Which is one interpretation.
    Which raises the issue. Why are the Mail and the Tories so keen on keeping the issue going?
    The only thought I can conclude is they know the PM has multiple fines, to be revealed next Friday.
    We can only hope!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,261
    dixiedean said:

    OT a bit.
    But Whitley Bay seems a strange choice to be campaigning in.

    He thought he was on Teesside.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,528
    Taz said:

    The only new evidence seems to be Rayner being there too. If it was legal before I do not see how this changes it.
    Which is the thing driving the Tories the most nuts. "SHE WAS THERE" "WHY DID LABOUR LIE" etc etc hasn't moved the police one bit. If as they have concluded from the primary evidence it was a campaign meeting then it doesn't matter if she was there or not.

    Its like someone demanding to know if I was tucking into a Burger King at Luton airport last Friday. I get my many trips through Luton mixed up and say I didn't. Then it comes to light that I did enjoy Whopper goodness on that occasion. "WHY DID HE LIE" is met with "I was legally there".

    Honestly don't get what Big_G and others are camping out for. Holden's letter presents no fresh evidence. The two Tiry students want to present the already reviewed evidence. Not liking someone doesn't provide a reason for the police to investigate baseless allegations.

    A good friend of mine was dragged through the ringer maliciously by their ex who made baseless allegations so serious the police had to investigate. There was no evidence - none - so it was quickly dropped. The ex then goes even more off the scale demanding this and that for the police who eventually had to threaten her with action unless she stopped wasting their time.

    Show us the evidence Big_G.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    Carnyx said:

    "expect".

    You are assuming the police will lift a finger. So much for decency and justice in the Conservative mentality.
    expect was either or on a possible outcome
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,096

    He thought he was on Teesside.
    "Ah, the famous Redcar Beacon." https://twitter.com/michaelglasper/status/1521257079335497739/photo/1


  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    Wow. Sounds like PM's GMB interview was an absolute car crash.


    Adam Bienkov
    @AdamBienkov
    ·
    1h
    Replying to
    @AdamBienkov
    Susanna Reid told Boris Johnson that 77-year-old Elsie stays on the buses all day in order to stay warm and use less energy. Johnson responds by congratulating himself for making freedom passes 24 hours. Quite extraordinary.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1521396481265221632

    Labour says if she votes for her Labour Council Candidate she will get up to £600 help.

    My sofa was in an up to 5000% off sale and they promised to end world famine if I purchased it.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,317
    tlg86 said:

    Remind me, what went down in Guildford? In Woking, the attitude of the council has been "it's either tower blocks or building houses on green spaces and golf courses."

    But I don't see any tower blocks in Guildford, so I guess they went for new housing estates like this one:

    https://www.taylorwimpey.co.uk/new-homes/guildford/montague-place
    Hi @tlg86 I wondered if you would post as I know you are in Woking. I lived in the Borough from being 9 until my early 30s and can tell lots of stories, some quite funny.

    Guildford Tories implosion is a long story and pre dates the local plan. There was infighting, a councillor sent down for corruption related to this stuff, an attempted coup to try and impose an elected mayor, corruption in getting the signatures for the referendum which was eventually lost by 90%. 20,000 written objections (yes really 20,000) against the local plan, which was an utter shambles, but passed on the eve of the local election that they knew they were going to lose. Fell out with the Mole Valley Tories over all this.

    Needless to say a significant number of Tories defected to the newly formed Indies. The LDs picked up what would have been their typical targets. The Indies stood in the safe Tory wards and slaughtered them with huge margins.

    I live in a rock solid safe Tory ward. It now has 3 Indy borough councillors and a Indy county councillor.

    That really is a brief summary. What happened really isn't a fair reflection on proper Tories and I'm sure they will be back, but they have been thrown out by their own supporters.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,317
    MrEd said:

    I don’t know why Labour continues with this line that it doesn’t matter and there is nothing to see here. If there was truly nothing, you think they would have a better argument. It’s clear from yours - who is not a Tory-at-any-cost voter - plus arguably the Best PM polling that the voters are sceptical of Labour’s stance. Blaming it on the machinations of the Daily Mail is a lazy argument.
    Saying there's nothing in it when there's nothing in it shows there's probably something in it?

    You seem to have wandered into that hall of mirrors of yours again.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    If you can’t define woman, never mind use the actual word ‘woman’ when it comes to women’s reproductive rights, then how do you campaign for women?

    - Birthing bodies have the right to freedom.

    Deciding if or when to become a parent is one of the most personal, life-changing decisions. Access to abortion & reproductive care is a decision we must trust each person to make based on what’s best for their health & their future


    https://twitter.com/holyroodmandy/status/1521384313396219909
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,165

    In 2005 it was a defensive war against the Taleban, not an aggressive war.
    The Taliban regime fell in November 2001 after Mazar-e-Sharif. When NATO turned up two years later they were not defending any NATO member from anything.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786

    Which is the thing driving the Tories the most nuts. "SHE WAS THERE" "WHY DID LABOUR LIE" etc etc hasn't moved the police one bit. If as they have concluded from the primary evidence it was a campaign meeting then it doesn't matter if she was there or not.

    Its like someone demanding to know if I was tucking into a Burger King at Luton airport last Friday. I get my many trips through Luton mixed up and say I didn't. Then it comes to light that I did enjoy Whopper goodness on that occasion. "WHY DID HE LIE" is met with "I was legally there".

    Honestly don't get what Big_G and others are camping out for. Holden's letter presents no fresh evidence. The two Tiry students want to present the already reviewed evidence. Not liking someone doesn't provide a reason for the police to investigate baseless allegations.

    A good friend of mine was dragged through the ringer maliciously by their ex who made baseless allegations so serious the police had to investigate. There was no evidence - none - so it was quickly dropped. The ex then goes even more off the scale demanding this and that for the police who eventually had to threaten her with action unless she stopped wasting their time.

    Show us the evidence Big_G.
    Evidence is for Richard Holden and others to provide and they are not going to let this go until they have been satisfied which of course could conclude Starmer was in compliance of covid regulations but equally it may not
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,528

    Starmer has not committed a gross crime, indeed breaking covid regulations itself results in a FPN which is not registered as a crime

    As far as raising the issue it was Sky and Kay Burley/ Tamara Cohen who raised it throughout their morning programme but it seems the very mention of it is like lighting a touch paper to labour supporters

    This is Sky's report this morning

    https://news.sky.com/story/durham-police-should-reopen-investigation-into-sir-keir-starmer-lockdown-beers-footage-minister-says-12604490
    And the final paras in the report?

    "Last month, the prime minister, Chancellor Rishi Sunak and Mr Johnson's wife Carrie Johnson were all issued fixed-penalty notices for attending an event to mark the prime minister's 56th birthday.

    The prime minister, who has faced persistent calls to resign over partygate, is thought to have been at more of the 12 events under investigation by Scotland Yard.

    The Met Police has said it will not issue any further partygate updates before the May local elections."

    This is why Labour are letting it rumble on. Every Single Report - a reminder of actual laws being broken and actual fines being issued against the PM and his missus and the Chancellor. Keeps the issue front and centre.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,537
    dixiedean said:

    Wiki seems to give first written use of "hoser" as 1981. But like most words it would have probably been in use long before that. See also "Shakespeare invented loads of words".
    No he didn't. He was the first to write down what his audience were saying. Otherwise how would your average Elizabethan punter have known what he was on about?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoser
    Every Shakespeare play includes a few slapstick interludes aimed at average Elizabethan punters, framed by highfalutin linguistic innovation designed to tease and delight the classically educated. Making up words was a national pastime then, as now.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    Which is the thing driving the Tories the most nuts. "SHE WAS THERE" "WHY DID LABOUR LIE" etc etc hasn't moved the police one bit. If as they have concluded from the primary evidence it was a campaign meeting then it doesn't matter if she was there or not.

    Its like someone demanding to know if I was tucking into a Burger King at Luton airport last Friday. I get my many trips through Luton mixed up and say I didn't. Then it comes to light that I did enjoy Whopper goodness on that occasion. "WHY DID HE LIE" is met with "I was legally there".

    Honestly don't get what Big_G and others are camping out for. Holden's letter presents no fresh evidence. The two Tiry students want to present the already reviewed evidence. Not liking someone doesn't provide a reason for the police to investigate baseless allegations.

    A good friend of mine was dragged through the ringer maliciously by their ex who made baseless allegations so serious the police had to investigate. There was no evidence - none - so it was quickly dropped. The ex then goes even more off the scale demanding this and that for the police who eventually had to threaten her with action unless she stopped wasting their time.

    Show us the evidence Big_G.
    Frank Dobson and Sharon Stone were there what more evidence do you need.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,336
    Well done Mike!, and I hope Mrs smithson gets over it soon. My wife is 76, fifteen years older than me, and I often wonder about the future.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,528

    Evidence is for Richard Holden and others to provide and they are not going to let this go until they have been satisfied which of course could conclude Starmer was in compliance of covid regulations but equally it may not
    They can whine all they want. You're absolutely right that it is for Holden et al to provide evidence - so why are you saying that his letter is sufficient for a police investigation to start?

    After I've made my initial baseless allegation against you and the police rightly dismiss it, are you ok if I write them a letter with no evidence whatsoever and they go and pull you in again for interview on something they have already decided was not a crime?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    Labour says if she votes for her Labour Council Candidate she will get up to £600 help.

    My sofa was in an up to 5000% off sale and they promised to end world famine if I purchased it.
    DFS does stand for Derbyshire food sharers doesn't it?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786

    And the final paras in the report?

    "Last month, the prime minister, Chancellor Rishi Sunak and Mr Johnson's wife Carrie Johnson were all issued fixed-penalty notices for attending an event to mark the prime minister's 56th birthday.

    The prime minister, who has faced persistent calls to resign over partygate, is thought to have been at more of the 12 events under investigation by Scotland Yard.

    The Met Police has said it will not issue any further partygate updates before the May local elections."

    This is why Labour are letting it rumble on. Every Single Report - a reminder of actual laws being broken and actual fines being issued against the PM and his missus and the Chancellor. Keeps the issue front and centre.
    I have no problem with that conclusion and repeat my hope that Thursday will herald the end of Boris's Premiership

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,244
    TOPPING said:

    The Afghan campaign (rightly or wrongly - as I said, certainly unsuccessfully) was about picking a side and conducting a war of extreme aggression against the other side.

    I know we have had this discussion previously when the villagers or wedding attendee victims of various NATO missile strikes should, in your opinion, have been grateful that they were obliterated in the cause of what you think was a defensive war but really, it was a war of aggression.
    Legally speaking, that's dubious.
    It was certainly an aggressive war, but that's not the same thing - though I'd agree with you that NATO's involvement was questionable.

    Iraq very probably was a war of aggression, despite the UN figleaf. since it was based on deliberate misinformation.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935

    They can whine all they want. You're absolutely right that it is for Holden et al to provide evidence - so why are you saying that his letter is sufficient for a police investigation to start?

    After I've made my initial baseless allegation against you and the police rightly dismiss it, are you ok if I write them a letter with no evidence whatsoever and they go and pull you in again for interview on something they have already decided was not a crime?
    People can and do write such letters to the police, but they are generally considered a bit bonkers. Not the type of person you would want in charge of media regulation, or anything at all really.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Taz said:

    True but the Tories have no chance at all of taking North Tyneside council.
    I think the party leaders choose campaign locations as much for the national news, as for the local candidates.

    We are deep in mid-term, with the government expecting heavy losses, so being able to point to concrete achievements in job creation outside of large cities, helps with the messaging across the country and especially the ‘red wall’ areas, who are expecting results from electing Conservatives in 2019.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,821
    Taz said:

    True but the Tories have no chance at all of taking North Tyneside council.
    And the battery factory is in Blyth, which doesn't have elections. Blyth is out of sight, hidden by St Mary's lighthouse, and very much out of mind in Whitley Bay these days. I doubt many unemployed factory workers can afford Whitley Bay.
    What's more, construction doesn't even start till next year.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    Nigelb said:

    Legally speaking, that's dubious.
    It was certainly an aggressive war, but that's not the same thing - though I'd agree with you that NATO's involvement was questionable.

    Iraq very probably was a war of aggression, despite the UN figleaf. since it was based on deliberate misinformation.
    Anji Hunter on the radio today saying how in govt in 2003 everyone believed the security services that the UK was genuinely under threat from WMD...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,821
    kjh said:

    Hi @tlg86 I wondered if you would post as I know you are in Woking. I lived in the Borough from being 9 until my early 30s and can tell lots of stories, some quite funny.

    Guildford Tories implosion is a long story and pre dates the local plan. There was infighting, a councillor sent down for corruption related to this stuff, an attempted coup to try and impose an elected mayor, corruption in getting the signatures for the referendum which was eventually lost by 90%. 20,000 written objections (yes really 20,000) against the local plan, which was an utter shambles, but passed on the eve of the local election that they knew they were going to lose. Fell out with the Mole Valley Tories over all this.

    Needless to say a significant number of Tories defected to the newly formed Indies. The LDs picked up what would have been their typical targets. The Indies stood in the safe Tory wards and slaughtered them with huge margins.

    I live in a rock solid safe Tory ward. It now has 3 Indy borough councillors and a Indy county councillor.

    That really is a brief summary. What happened really isn't a fair reflection on proper Tories and I'm sure they will be back, but they have been thrown out by their own supporters.
    That doesn't sound rock solid to me.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,421
    kjh said:

    Hi @tlg86 I wondered if you would post as I know you are in Woking. I lived in the Borough from being 9 until my early 30s and can tell lots of stories, some quite funny.

    Guildford Tories implosion is a long story and pre dates the local plan. There was infighting, a councillor sent down for corruption related to this stuff, an attempted coup to try and impose an elected mayor, corruption in getting the signatures for the referendum which was eventually lost by 90%. 20,000 written objections (yes really 20,000) against the local plan, which was an utter shambles, but passed on the eve of the local election that they knew they were going to lose. Fell out with the Mole Valley Tories over all this.

    Needless to say a significant number of Tories defected to the newly formed Indies. The LDs picked up what would have been their typical targets. The Indies stood in the safe Tory wards and slaughtered them with huge margins.

    I live in a rock solid safe Tory ward. It now has 3 Indy borough councillors and a Indy county councillor.

    That really is a brief summary. What happened really isn't a fair reflection on proper Tories and I'm sure they will be back, but they have been thrown out by their own supporters.
    But is it simply nimbyism that did for the Tories? That is, we don't want tower blocks and we don't want new housing estates either.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 954
    Yes, one thought. Over the past two weeksa this country appears to have the worst death rate from COVID of anywhere in the world!
    By not publicising daily figures, by not allowing free testing, by simply keeping quiet the government has seemingly convinced many people that the issue is not a major problem any more. Whereas we are not just living with COVID we are dying from it as well.
    I have had the four jabs but still wear a mask in enclosed places, even the Gym, I am usually the only one. Last week two regulars went down with it!!!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786

    They can whine all they want. You're absolutely right that it is for Holden et al to provide evidence - so why are you saying that his letter is sufficient for a police investigation to start?

    After I've made my initial baseless allegation against you and the police rightly dismiss it, are you ok if I write them a letter with no evidence whatsoever and they go and pull you in again for interview on something they have already decided was not a crime?
    Durham Police said they will respond to Holdens letter and that response will determine whether or not the matter concludes and what further steps may be taken by Holden and other conservative mps
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,165
    edited May 2022
    Sandpit said:

    One more country in the Middle East that’s no longer going to be neutral in this conflict.

    (Waits for Lavrov to re-ignite the tensions with the OPEC Gulf States over oil production).
    Israel are trying to stay neutral because they don't want Russia to kick the furniture over in Syria to the detriment of Israel.

    There's also a lot of Israeli avionics in the Su-30M (and probably many other things) so they are trying to take the long view on the strategic value of the Israel-Russia relationship but Lavrov's making it difficult to sell neutrality in Jerusalem.
  • Anyway Afghanistan was a defensive war since they started it with 9/11, which is the only time in NATO's entire history that Article 5 has been invoked.

    So it'd be entirely appropriate for NATO to be involved, since it all began with an attack on a NATO state which led to Article 5 being invoked.
This discussion has been closed.