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Vulnerable and quadruple jabbed yet I still got COVID – politicalbetting.com

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    “Boris Johnson is toxic for affluent, middle-class, liberal Conservatives.”

    My report from Red Wall suburbia to outer London on what voters are thinking ahead of the local elections this Thurs:


    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2022/05/boris-betrayed-us-from-the-red-wall-to-outer-london-are-the-tories-doomed-in-the-2022-local-elections
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:

    PM ends interview by saying “Who’s @reallorraine” and the Conservatives lose 5 million voters in one fell swoop 😂
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1521398267786977280

    So, who is #lorraine? Genuine Q
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,910
    OT. A strange day....

    I met my brother and his wife in Grasmere. He lives in Amsterdam and has had a Ukrainian mother and seventeen year old son living with them for six weeks. The son speaks reasonable English the mother not at all but she has a Dutch to Ukrainian app and conversation isn't difficult. How long they stay is unknown

    They're both well educated and are enjoying learning about Dutch culture. The son had always wanted to travel west and was originally hoping their destination was England. Once they have registered in an EU country they can't move freely which is why they didn't register in Poland or the Czech Republic which were their first ports of call......

    Later I met an English woman who had just left Russia. She has lived in Moscow for twenty five years and she loves her life there. She left because foreigners were advised to leave. She had a reasonably harrowing journey via Turkey and had arrived at her aunt's house in the UK a few days earlier. She had a media job in Moscow and was fascinating. She's a very bright lady. The extraordinary thing is that she believes Russia is in the right.

    The conversation is too long to get into but she refutes the argument that the Russians are ill informed. She herself is multi lingual and reads the European press every day. Though not everyone's a fan of Putin the vast majority support his actions. She believes NATO is a threat to Russia and Putin had no alternative but to do what he did
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    The old Tories (vote for us, we'll make you richer) are doomed.

    Hence we're left with the new Tories (vote for us to win the culture war). Which has the consequences we see around us, and also makes it harder for the country to become richer.

    This isn't going to end well, but the end could be some way off.
    Culture wars bother people like Leon for sure but I can’t see them bothering too many people. It’s the economy that matters and the cost of living. The Tories are doomed.
    Not sure. What was Brexit, after all, but a Battle in the Culture Wars?

    Johnson (or Biden) face the same problem as Putin. A long and protracted war in Ukraine will ultimately cause declining popularity, as sanctions (Putin) or economic costs (Johnson, Biden) really begin to bite.

    The longer the war continues, the more likely it is that all three are despatched.

    It is just a case of who goes first.

    If Putin goes first, maybe Johnson & Biden will get a victory bounce and pull through.

    But, if Putin has not gone by 2024 and the war is continuing, the economic consequences will kill both Johnson and Biden's re-election chances.
    Brexit was many things to many people. I don’t see it as wholly a battle in the culture wars. A lot of it for areas like mine, left behind areas, was the promise of levelling up.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    kle4 said:

    Also Primary Day in the great Hoosier State of Indiana

    In-person P-Day voting begins in a few hours, running from 6am - 6pm local time, which is EDT in most of the state EXCEPT for Northwest (Gary, Michigan City) and Southwest (Evanville) Indiana which are CDT.

    So first Indiana results will be coming in sometime after 11pm UK time tonight.

    According to the Gray Lady (NYT $)

    "Indiana’s primary also features some notable elections with implications for the direction of the Republican Party. This year, more incumbents at the state level are facing primary challengers from the right than in at least a decade, according to a review by The Indianapolis Star, potentially resulting in an even more conservative legislative supermajority.

    North of Indianapolis, in Hamilton County, the re-election campaign of the prosecutor D. Lee Buckingham against Greg Garrison, a conservative talk-show host, is garnering outsize attention: Mr. Buckingham has the support of former Vice President Mike Pence."

    Remains to be seen what impact today's news re: Roe v Wade may have on today's AND subsequent primaries as well as 2022 general election.

    Today too early to tell, obviously, but possible that as year progresses SCOTUS reversal of RvW could reduce current advantage in enthusiasm gap enjoyed by Republicans at present, by galvanizing, mobilizing and turning out Democrats & pro-choice swing voters, esp. in key, mostly-suburban counties and districts critical in key 2022 gubernatorial, senatorial, congressional, legislative and local races across America.

    I know this isnt the main takeaway, but what's a Hoosier?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosier
    No one knows why.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited May 2022
    nico679 said:

    The SCOTUS decision will inflame US politics at a time when it’s already deeply polarized .

    The choice is clear in November and this will impact many of the close races . Governors and state legislatures will be very much more at the forefront and it’s likely you’ll see a lot of up ballot effect .

    Make no mistake behind the scenes the Dems will know this is a gift from the court which could help them save the senate.

    Yup, that and letting Trump back on Twitter.

    Still, it remains to be seen if the court will actually do this. If they're religious ideologues they will, but if they're political hacks they won't: What a political hack would do would be to leak that they were going to overturn, then do something that doesn't actually technically overturn but lets states almost completely ban abortion in practice. After the leak this will appear moderate and not really do much for Dem turnout.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    PM ends interview by saying “Who’s @reallorraine” and the Conservatives lose 5 million voters in one fell swoop 😂
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1521398267786977280

    So, who is #lorraine? Genuine Q
    And me
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    Cyclefree said:

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Yes. Radio 4 was saying 26!states would ban/restrict abortion as a result - more than half of the US.

    If the voters in those states want to elect representatives who will do that why shouldn’t they be permitted to do so?

    The UK has no real understanding of proper federalism
    If the voters in those states want to elect representatives who will deny lack people the vote why shouldn't they be permitted to do so?

    After all, using the reasoning in the leaked decision, blacks having the right to vote is hardly rooted in history in the US. Why is that not as much of a "phony right" as the other rights criticised by this draft judgment?

    And if they should not be permitted to do so, on what basis do you say this?
    Because there is an explicit protection in the Bill of Rights (I think it’s there rather than the constitution but happy to be corrected). But if they could work through the process to amend the Bill of Rights then they would have the legal ability to do that. It wouldn’t be the right thing to do, of course…

    Alito’s argument isn’t based on “rooted in history” - that was an aside - and focusing on that gives an incorrect interpretation. His fundamental position is that (1) abortion is not a right explicitly protected in the constitution; (2) Roe vs Wade was a novel interpretation and a classical example of judicial activism; (3) he takes a strict view that the constitution does not support judicial activism; and therefore (4) the federal courts have no right to impose their views on state governments. It’s a narrow and dry interpretation of constitutional law but one I have a lot of sympathy for from a philosophical perspective.

    From a personal perspective, FWIW, I see abortion as a conflict between the rights of the mother and the rights of the unborn child. I would tend to choose viability (c 20 weeks) as the point when the child has the right to life. And I would certainly vote against any candidate who intended to ban it de jure or de facto.
    When we were wrestling with the details in Parliament in my time, I asked for evidence on when a foetus can start to feel pain (a bit analogously to the animal sentience issue). I was told "approximmately 20 weeks", which makes the current law look about right.

    I had what was pretty much the only amendment in the debate which got broad cross-party backbench support, proposing that, as part of the preparation for an abortion, women should receive a factual information sheet on the options available (including adoption, as well as the current position on child benefits). It didn't have official Government or Opposition support so didn't pass, but I still think it's a worthwhile idea - leaving the decision to the woman, but ensuring that she has all the information available to help make the choice.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    That GMB interview was a horror show for Bozo .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 2022

    This Supreme Court decision should make the mid terms even more interesting.

    What decision?
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/02/roe-v-wade-abortion-supreme-court-draft-opinion
    There has been no decision yet, the decision is not due until July this is just an alleged leak of a judicial opinion.

    However the SC would not be banning abortion even if the leak is correct, just leaving it up to states to decide. Which is fair enough, there is a case for saying it should not have been imposed at the Federal level.

    It would only really affect 7 states, Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Kentucky, Louisiana, Tennessee and West Virginia. All Trump and GOP voting states with Republican governors and state legislatures and the only US states where a majority of voters say abortion should be illegal

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/21/do-state-laws-on-abortion-reflect-public-opinion/
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    PM ends interview by saying “Who’s @reallorraine” and the Conservatives lose 5 million voters in one fell swoop 😂
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1521398267786977280

    So, who is #lorraine? Genuine Q
    And me
    It seems she is on telly 9-10 a.m. every day. who knew?

    *checks watch, deletes remarks about workshy slobs with nothing better to do between those hours*
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Hi Mike,

    Good to hear that you are over your bout of Covid, and I hope your wife is fully recovered soon.

    As I've reported here previously, my wife had it 3 times in under 3 months, but on each occasion I was testing negative. It's a funny bugger, this virus.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    PM ends interview by saying “Who’s @reallorraine” and the Conservatives lose 5 million voters in one fell swoop 😂
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1521398267786977280

    So, who is #lorraine? Genuine Q
    And me
    It seems she is on telly 9-10 a.m. every day. who knew?

    *checks watch, deletes remarks about workshy slobs with nothing better to do between those hours*
    I genuinely have no idea who she is or ever watch her programme
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Heathener said:

    *** BETTING POST ***

    You can get 2/1 on the LibDems winning control of Woking Council. 10 of the 30 seats are up for grabs and, knowing the area as I do, I think this is a value bet. They have made steady gains in recent times and they are already the largest party. It's clear that the party machine is up and running hard for this.

    I've only seen LibDem posters up and there is a lot of anger directed towards the Conservatives. In addition the tory run minority council has squandered huge amounts of money and the council is now the third most most debt-ridden in the country.

    I think at 2/1 this is value. I'm on.

    https://www.betfair.com/sport/politics

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/partygate-made-conservatives-grumpy-what-23812465

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/staggering-amount-woking-borough-council-23066714

    https://wokinglibdems.org.uk/en/article/2021/1421356/shock-by-election-win-paves-way-for-lib-dem-gain-in-woking

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/willforster/polling_day_in_woking

    Okay, let's look at the evidence (I live in Woking):

    Here's the current status:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Woking_Borough_Council_election

    So it's Conservatives 13, Lib Dems 12, Labour 3 and independents 2.

    16 seats are needed for a majority.

    These are the seats up for grabs:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Woking_Borough_Council_election

    So the Lib Dems need to flip four of the seven they didn't win in 2018 whilst holding on to the three they did win (that bit should be fine).

    Woking has 10 wards with three councillors each with them elected three out of every four years. Here are the seven the Lib Dems missed in 2018 and how they went in 2021 (i.e. different seats but same ward):

    Byfleet and West Byfleet - Tory gain from independent in 2021.
    Canalside - Comfortable Labour hold in 2021 with the Lib Dems in third behind the Tories.
    Goldsworth Park - Lib Dem gain in 2021.
    Heathlands - Tory hold but big swing to the Lib Dems in 2021.
    Horsell - Lib Dem gain in 2021.
    Knaphill - Tory hold in 2021 with the Lib Dems in third behind an independent who is running again in 2022.
    Pyrford - Fairly comfortable hold for the Tories in 2021.

    The Lib Dems need four of those. Goldsworth Park and Horsell should be in the bag. Heathlands includes Hook Heath, which is outrageously wealthy and is very much now core Lib Dem territory. But they still need to a 4.2 pp swing on 2021 to take it this time. And then they still need one more.

    It's a different independent standing in Byfleet and West Byfleet, so perhaps that's an opportunity, but looking at 2021, I think the presence of a strong independent hurts the Lib Dems. I suppose on a very good day, the Lib Dems could take Pyrford.

    On the whole, I'd be more tempted by the 4/9 on no overall control.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited May 2022
    kle4 said:

    Also Primary Day in the great Hoosier State of Indiana

    In-person P-Day voting begins in a few hours, running from 6am - 6pm local time, which is EDT in most of the state EXCEPT for Northwest (Gary, Michigan City) and Southwest (Evanville) Indiana which are CDT.

    So first Indiana results will be coming in sometime after 11pm UK time tonight.

    According to the Gray Lady (NYT $)

    "Indiana’s primary also features some notable elections with implications for the direction of the Republican Party. This year, more incumbents at the state level are facing primary challengers from the right than in at least a decade, according to a review by The Indianapolis Star, potentially resulting in an even more conservative legislative supermajority.

    North of Indianapolis, in Hamilton County, the re-election campaign of the prosecutor D. Lee Buckingham against Greg Garrison, a conservative talk-show host, is garnering outsize attention: Mr. Buckingham has the support of former Vice President Mike Pence."

    Remains to be seen what impact today's news re: Roe v Wade may have on today's AND subsequent primaries as well as 2022 general election.

    Today too early to tell, obviously, but possible that as year progresses SCOTUS reversal of RvW could reduce current advantage in enthusiasm gap enjoyed by Republicans at present, by galvanizing, mobilizing and turning out Democrats & pro-choice swing voters, esp. in key, mostly-suburban counties and districts critical in key 2022 gubernatorial, senatorial, congressional, legislative and local races across America.

    I know this isnt the main takeaway, but what's a Hoosier?

    Good question.

    Short answer: a native or assimilated resident of State of Indiana.

    What? See wiki blurb below, but fact is, Indiana has one of the strongest state identities in the USA, based in part (like WVa) of tendency of bigger, richer neighbors looking down their noses at them.

    Note that in much of upland South, a "hoosier" is a uncooth rural yokel (even by uncooth rural yokel standards).

    Further note that in the early 1800s, residents of Illinois were called "Suckers" a nickname they shed (on purpose) long ago.

    Personally think that "Sucker" and "Hoosier" have pretty much the same meaning. With the former coming to mean in American argot NOT people from what we call the Land of Lincoln, but just the general run of, well, suckers.

    While on the other hand, Hoosiers came to refer, not to a universal class, but just to folks from Indiana.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosier

    Addendum - there was a lot of French Canadian influence in the Midwest, on the Great Lakes AND the Ohio River and it's tributaries such as the Wabash, the Ganges (sort of) of Indiana. Hence "hoosier" which is French (ditto).
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I need educating about windfall taxes.

    Radio 4 this AM:

    7:20 Sir Ed interview: We will introduce a windfall tax on oil companies' excessive profits.
    (Also heavyweight denial of any Lib-Lab pact)
    7:30 (first I head) News Headline: BP makes £16bn loss.

    How does this work? Can a Govt say "we are having X billions of this, even though you made an overall loss because of the Ukraine War?"

    If this comes down to a Court scrimmage, I'd punt that the walking away from Russia voluntarily (if it was) would be a problem for BP.

    8:10 Sir Keir adopts the same position on BP. 20 minute interview and that was one of about three questions he answered, including about 4 goes at not answering whether the Durham Constabulary have been in contact again since the food-beer-food work event became news.

    Anne Marie Trevelyan suggesting that when Starmer gets his FPNs he doesn't have to resign. I can see what is at work here. "If Starmer doesn't resign for his egregious and wilful breach of Covid rules why should Johnson resign for the minor indiscretion of being ambushed by cake".

    If Starmer accepts an FPN he has to go.
    Why haven’t labour closed this story down. Starmer won’t be getting an FPN
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Roger said:

    OT. A strange day....

    I met my brother and his wife in Grasmere. He lives in Amsterdam and has had a Ukrainian mother and seventeen year old son living with them for six weeks. The son speaks reasonable English the mother not at all but she has a Dutch to Ukrainian app and conversation isn't difficult. How long they stay is unknown

    They're both well educated and are enjoying learning about Dutch culture. The son had always wanted to travel west and was originally hoping their destination was England. Once they have registered in an EU country they can't move freely which is why they didn't register in Poland or the Czech Republic which were their first ports of call......

    Later I met an English woman who had just left Russia. She has lived in Moscow for twenty five years and she loves her life there. She left because foreigners were advised to leave. She had a reasonably harrowing journey via Turkey and had arrived at her aunt's house in the UK a few days earlier. She had a media job in Moscow and was fascinating. She's a very bright lady. The extraordinary thing is that she believes Russia is in the right.

    The conversation is too long to get into but she refutes the argument that the Russians are ill informed. She herself is multi lingual and reads the European press every day. Though not everyone's a fan of Putin the vast majority support his actions. She believes NATO is a threat to Russia and Putin had no alternative but to do what he did

    I've no doubt many Germans in 1939 believed that Hitler had no alternative but to invade Poland etc.

    She has clearly gone native. What did she think NATO was planning to do to Russia if they hadn't invaded a foreign nation? NATO has always been defensive. Hell - if Putin had wanted to Russia could have joined NATO too.

    Insane.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    PM ends interview by saying “Who’s @reallorraine” and the Conservatives lose 5 million voters in one fell swoop 😂
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1521398267786977280

    So, who is #lorraine? Genuine Q
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorraine_Kelly

    I'd never heard of her either, but maybe you and I are not typical.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Also Primary Day in the great Hoosier State of Indiana

    In-person P-Day voting begins in a few hours, running from 6am - 6pm local time, which is EDT in most of the state EXCEPT for Northwest (Gary, Michigan City) and Southwest (Evanville) Indiana which are CDT.

    So first Indiana results will be coming in sometime after 11pm UK time tonight.

    According to the Gray Lady (NYT $)

    "Indiana’s primary also features some notable elections with implications for the direction of the Republican Party. This year, more incumbents at the state level are facing primary challengers from the right than in at least a decade, according to a review by The Indianapolis Star, potentially resulting in an even more conservative legislative supermajority.

    North of Indianapolis, in Hamilton County, the re-election campaign of the prosecutor D. Lee Buckingham against Greg Garrison, a conservative talk-show host, is garnering outsize attention: Mr. Buckingham has the support of former Vice President Mike Pence."

    Remains to be seen what impact today's news re: Roe v Wade may have on today's AND subsequent primaries as well as 2022 general election.

    Today too early to tell, obviously, but possible that as year progresses SCOTUS reversal of RvW could reduce current advantage in enthusiasm gap enjoyed by Republicans at present, by galvanizing, mobilizing and turning out Democrats & pro-choice swing voters, esp. in key, mostly-suburban counties and districts critical in key 2022 gubernatorial, senatorial, congressional, legislative and local races across America.

    I know this isnt the main takeaway, but what's a Hoosier?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosier
    No one knows why.
    I was going to joke that it meant "Who's here?" but according to Wikipedia it seems that's the most likely etymology.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    PM ends interview by saying “Who’s @reallorraine” and the Conservatives lose 5 million voters in one fell swoop 😂
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1521398267786977280

    So, who is #lorraine? Genuine Q
    And me
    It seems she is on telly 9-10 a.m. every day. who knew?

    *checks watch, deletes remarks about workshy slobs with nothing better to do between those hours*
    I genuinely have no idea who she is or ever watch her programme
    Just checked and apparently it has an audience of just 450,000 listeners
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,149

    Excellent that you're on the mend, Mike - hope your wife is better soon too.

    Not sure if we've covered this - can't see it on the thread?

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_localelectionpoll_20220503.html

    Terrible for expectations management for Labour (Westminster!), but the methodology does look convincing. Roll on Thursday!

    Incidentally, I'm astonished by the predicted halving of Green representation. I think this may underestimate the power of incumbency for small parties - when you actually hold the seat, it's hard for anyone to say it's a wasted vote.

    As I read it, Greens gained a lot in 2019, and so are heavily skewed to councillors not up for election this time.

    As to why they are predicted to halve - a belief that Lib Dems can win, so no point in a protest vote for an even-more-minor party?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I need educating about windfall taxes.

    Radio 4 this AM:

    7:20 Sir Ed interview: We will introduce a windfall tax on oil companies' excessive profits.
    (Also heavyweight denial of any Lib-Lab pact)
    7:30 (first I head) News Headline: BP makes £16bn loss.

    How does this work? Can a Govt say "we are having X billions of this, even though you made an overall loss because of the Ukraine War?"

    If this comes down to a Court scrimmage, I'd punt that the walking away from Russia voluntarily (if it was) would be a problem for BP.

    8:10 Sir Keir adopts the same position on BP. 20 minute interview and that was one of about three questions he answered, including about 4 goes at not answering whether the Durham Constabulary have been in contact again since the food-beer-food work event became news.

    You need educating about the basics of the constitution first. You would impose a tax by primary legislation. In what court would you expect a scrimmage about that?
    I think the issue being raised is what defines profit. There is no problem taxing excess oil company profits - even Thatcher did so and that legislation is still on the statute books. But if there is no profit to tax, its all a bit moot.

    The question then is what is profit? Its relatively simple for big profitable companies to reduce their stated profits. Whilst I am sure that Ukraine is slamming oil as it is my own industry I would be surprised if the losses were so large as to offset profits made everywhere else in this time of elevated oil prices.

    But how would a government or a court prove it...?
    We seem to work it out OK for corporation tax purposes.
    Sure - after the legal manipulation that goes on. I'll give you one example - Nestle UK pay Nestle SA a licencing fee, a pre-tax transfer of profits to the parent group. That is still profit made in the UK but isn't profit that tax is paid on in the UK.

    I'm not complaining about any of this, just pointing out that "poor BP made a loss" isn't strictly true. They just made a loss *in the UK* as a decision made by them as a group.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Alistair said:

    Can we not trot out the tired "Roe vs Wade energised the religious right" urban myth.

    The Southern Baptist Council was in favour of Roe vs Wade. Hard core opposition to abortion was seen as a suspiciously Catholic thing. The SBC celebrated the clarification and certainty that Roe brought and allowed them to focus on their main aim which was racially segregated schooling for their children.

    It was the ending of tax breaks for racist segregated schools and collages in the 1970s that activated the Religious Right in America.

    The Heritage Foundation started to reframe abortion through the lens of race (its always race in America). Abortion was coded as an activity abused by "the poor" (where "the poor" means minorities) to rile up the base. It took until the mid eighties before you could start to say that the Religious Right was solidly anti-abortion.

    With due respect, believe you are greatly under-estimating the impact of abortion in mobilizing evangelical, conservative Christians in the US behind conservative social causes AND the Republican Party. And in the process creating links leading to increasing cooperation with conservative Catholics.

    Was on the ground while this was happening, from West Virginia to Louisiana to Indiana to Washington State. Certainly the Heritage Foundation played a part, but it was NOT the driver. Much more grassroots, as harnessed - not propagated - by likes of Christian Coalition.
    Yes and the Christian Coalition includes Roman Catholics as well as Protestant evangelicals
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    HYUFD said:

    That twitter thread posted earlier by @Taz contains some damning economic analysis but imo the biggest condemnation of Tory economic mismanagement is the fact that at the next GE real wages will be below the level they were when Labour left office in 2010.

    Can any PB Tories refute or defend that? Still all Labour's fault is it?

    https://twitter.com/technopopulist/status/1521122232097021953?s=21&t=cTVgar1NfQtvogk2F1iNDA

    For many years most voters have bought the line that the Tories are best for managing the economy. Surely, that belief is going to be shattered now.

    Unemployment still half the level Labour left in 2010.

    If real wages are down it is because of inflation due to the Ukraine situation and demand rising in excess of supply post lockdown
    Real wages were down in the 10 years to 2020 because of Covid lockdown and the Ukraine?
  • Scott_xP said:

    "Who's Lorraine?" @BorisJohnson asks.

    It didn't sound like a dig, it sounded like he genuinely had NO idea who @reallorraine is.

    In an interview that was meant to tell @GMB viewers he was in touch with them..
    . https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1521399499595206656/photo/1

    While putting him in touch with everyone else?

    Are you surprised that the Prime Minister isn't a big daytime TV viewer?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Hi Mike,

    Good to hear that you are over your bout of Covid, and I hope your wife is fully recovered soon.

    As I've reported here previously, my wife had it 3 times in under 3 months, but on each occasion I was testing negative. It's a funny bugger, this virus.

    Was she ill three times or just testing positve on three ocassions? And testing with lateral flow or PCR? PCR will show positives for weeks and months after infection.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    IshmaelZ said:

    I do have a question for US-based PBers. How much of the desire to chain women to the bed comes from some deranged religious conviction and how much because it upsets the liberals?

    What I struggle to comprehend is how people vote for this. Vaginas are dangerous so we read in the UK and at least some Americans have them. Why would you vote to remove your own rights? To risk bleeding to death in agony (as @Cyclefree and Mrs RP have both said this morning). To subjugate your own gender - or at least your wives and daughters?

    I do what I can to empower my daughter and to shape the world so that she can be all that she wants to be. The idea of raising her to be some man's property and saying "if you are raped it's God's will" is just crazy.

    So do they do it because they genuinely believe in the non-rights of women? Or because they have been raised to hate liberals so hard that they will remove their own rights just to do them over?

    I read someone credible, can't remember who, who said that the way to understand this is racism: people who get abortions are disproportionately black. Same with free healthcare, can't have black people being treated on my tax dollar.

    This sounds incredible but compare the war on drugs, a senior member of Nixon's government is on record as saying it was just a proxy for a war on black people
    If you're going down that deeply unpleasant rabbit hole the logical outcome is that a ban on abortion will inevitably lead to more black people being born proportionately, which from the perspective of the racist is that the objective they're seeking?

    America is becoming a more and more alien country every year it seems. To be banning women from controlling their own bodies is utterly disgusting if that comes to pass.
    Black Pentecostal churches are also strongly anti abortion
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    PM ends interview by saying “Who’s @reallorraine” and the Conservatives lose 5 million voters in one fell swoop 😂
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1521398267786977280

    So, who is #lorraine? Genuine Q
    And me
    It seems she is on telly 9-10 a.m. every day. who knew?

    *checks watch, deletes remarks about workshy slobs with nothing better to do between those hours*
    I genuinely have no idea who she is or ever watch her programme
    It's because you watch Kay every morning! A bit like me 👍. Not sure how many viewers Kay gets.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Heathener said:

    *** BETTING POST ***

    You can get 2/1 on the LibDems winning control of Woking Council. 10 of the 30 seats are up for grabs and, knowing the area as I do, I think this is a value bet. They have made steady gains in recent times and they are already the largest party. It's clear that the party machine is up and running hard for this.

    I've only seen LibDem posters up and there is a lot of anger directed towards the Conservatives. In addition the tory run minority council has squandered huge amounts of money and the council is now the third most most debt-ridden in the country.

    I think at 2/1 this is value. I'm on.

    https://www.betfair.com/sport/politics

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/partygate-made-conservatives-grumpy-what-23812465

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/staggering-amount-woking-borough-council-23066714

    https://wokinglibdems.org.uk/en/article/2021/1421356/shock-by-election-win-paves-way-for-lib-dem-gain-in-woking

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/willforster/polling_day_in_woking

    Woking is only 26th on the LD target list for the next general election, no surprise they are targeting it
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    nico679 said:

    That GMB interview was a horror show for Bozo .

    It wasn’t good at all. Any Tory MPs our council candidates watching that would be mortified at such a poor performance. Was he briefed ? The line of questioning was predictable. All questions that should be easy enough to answer competently.
  • kle4 said:

    Also Primary Day in the great Hoosier State of Indiana

    In-person P-Day voting begins in a few hours, running from 6am - 6pm local time, which is EDT in most of the state EXCEPT for Northwest (Gary, Michigan City) and Southwest (Evanville) Indiana which are CDT.

    So first Indiana results will be coming in sometime after 11pm UK time tonight.

    According to the Gray Lady (NYT $)

    "Indiana’s primary also features some notable elections with implications for the direction of the Republican Party. This year, more incumbents at the state level are facing primary challengers from the right than in at least a decade, according to a review by The Indianapolis Star, potentially resulting in an even more conservative legislative supermajority.

    North of Indianapolis, in Hamilton County, the re-election campaign of the prosecutor D. Lee Buckingham against Greg Garrison, a conservative talk-show host, is garnering outsize attention: Mr. Buckingham has the support of former Vice President Mike Pence."

    Remains to be seen what impact today's news re: Roe v Wade may have on today's AND subsequent primaries as well as 2022 general election.

    Today too early to tell, obviously, but possible that as year progresses SCOTUS reversal of RvW could reduce current advantage in enthusiasm gap enjoyed by Republicans at present, by galvanizing, mobilizing and turning out Democrats & pro-choice swing voters, esp. in key, mostly-suburban counties and districts critical in key 2022 gubernatorial, senatorial, congressional, legislative and local races across America.

    I know this isnt the main takeaway, but what's a Hoosier?

    Good question.

    Short answer: a native or assimilated resident of State of Indiana.

    What? See wiki blurb below, but fact is, Indiana has one of the strongest state identities in the USA, based in part (like WVa) of tendency of bigger, richer neighbors looking down their noses at them.

    Note that in much of upland South, a "hoosier" is a uncooth rural yokel (even by uncooth rural yokel standards).

    Further note that in the early 1800s, residents of Illinois were called "Suckers" a nickname they shed (on purpose) long ago.

    Personally think that "Sucker" and "Hoosier" have pretty much the same meaning. With the former coming to mean in American argot NOT people from what we call the Land of Lincoln, but just the general run of, well, suckers.

    While on the other hand, Hoosiers came to refer, not to a universal class, but just to folks from Indiana.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosier

    Addendum - there was a lot of French Canadian influence in the Midwest, on the Great Lakes AND the Ohio River and it's tributaries such as the Wabash, the Ganges (sort of) of Indiana. Hence "hoosier" which is French (ditto).
    Canadians have the quite similar word Hoser, which was used a lot on How I Met Your Mother, that's the only reference to it I knew.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    PM ends interview by saying “Who’s @reallorraine” and the Conservatives lose 5 million voters in one fell swoop 😂
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1521398267786977280

    So, who is #lorraine? Genuine Q
    And me
    It seems she is on telly 9-10 a.m. every day. who knew?

    *checks watch, deletes remarks about workshy slobs with nothing better to do between those hours*
    I genuinely have no idea who she is or ever watch her programme
    It's because you watch Kay every morning! A bit like me 👍. Not sure how many viewers Kay gets.
    And the BBC
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    *giggles* have you not been following this on Twitter? This was yesterday's Mail expose of the new evidence. Look - here is evil Kier eating an illegal curry! How do we know it was illegal? Because corpses aren't allowed to be dug up to campaign so that's grave robbing and breaking lockdown and everyone should just vote Conservative because otherwise its a conspiracy.

    Funny how so many of the Twitter accounts pushing the Tory line are "@Dave596825" and similar...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Also Primary Day in the great Hoosier State of Indiana

    In-person P-Day voting begins in a few hours, running from 6am - 6pm local time, which is EDT in most of the state EXCEPT for Northwest (Gary, Michigan City) and Southwest (Evanville) Indiana which are CDT.

    So first Indiana results will be coming in sometime after 11pm UK time tonight.

    According to the Gray Lady (NYT $)

    "Indiana’s primary also features some notable elections with implications for the direction of the Republican Party. This year, more incumbents at the state level are facing primary challengers from the right than in at least a decade, according to a review by The Indianapolis Star, potentially resulting in an even more conservative legislative supermajority.

    North of Indianapolis, in Hamilton County, the re-election campaign of the prosecutor D. Lee Buckingham against Greg Garrison, a conservative talk-show host, is garnering outsize attention: Mr. Buckingham has the support of former Vice President Mike Pence."

    Remains to be seen what impact today's news re: Roe v Wade may have on today's AND subsequent primaries as well as 2022 general election.

    Today too early to tell, obviously, but possible that as year progresses SCOTUS reversal of RvW could reduce current advantage in enthusiasm gap enjoyed by Republicans at present, by galvanizing, mobilizing and turning out Democrats & pro-choice swing voters, esp. in key, mostly-suburban counties and districts critical in key 2022 gubernatorial, senatorial, congressional, legislative and local races across America.

    I know this isnt the main takeaway, but what's a Hoosier?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosier
    No one knows why.
    I was going to joke that it meant "Who's here?" but according to Wikipedia it seems that's the most likely etymology.
    Personally disagree, see my own quasi-learned explanation, based on several years of personal Hoosierdom. But it's a fun topic, and likely more than one explanation in the mix.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/02/dozens-migrants-land-dover-despite-rwanda-plan/

    Record number of Channel migrants reaching the UK as crossings ‘fuelled by Rwanda delays’

    ...

    It followed 11 days of bad weather that had prevented any migrants crossing the Channel, prompting speculation – dismissed by government sources – that the Rwanda plan was already deterring migrants.

    But on Monday night, France claimed the policy had created a window of opportunity that people-smugglers were exploiting. Pierre-Henri Dumont, the Calais MP, said there was evidence that criminals were encouraging migrants to attempt the crossing before the measures take effect.

    ...

    Genius

    PP fanbois pls explain

    I wonder if the government will ever have the nerve to send somebody to Rwanda if they really don't want to go. A truly unwilling transportee would have to be restrained and/or sedated in a nappy with at least two minimum wage Serco goons accompanying. It's not a happy picture.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited May 2022

    kle4 said:

    Also Primary Day in the great Hoosier State of Indiana

    In-person P-Day voting begins in a few hours, running from 6am - 6pm local time, which is EDT in most of the state EXCEPT for Northwest (Gary, Michigan City) and Southwest (Evanville) Indiana which are CDT.

    So first Indiana results will be coming in sometime after 11pm UK time tonight.

    According to the Gray Lady (NYT $)

    "Indiana’s primary also features some notable elections with implications for the direction of the Republican Party. This year, more incumbents at the state level are facing primary challengers from the right than in at least a decade, according to a review by The Indianapolis Star, potentially resulting in an even more conservative legislative supermajority.

    North of Indianapolis, in Hamilton County, the re-election campaign of the prosecutor D. Lee Buckingham against Greg Garrison, a conservative talk-show host, is garnering outsize attention: Mr. Buckingham has the support of former Vice President Mike Pence."

    Remains to be seen what impact today's news re: Roe v Wade may have on today's AND subsequent primaries as well as 2022 general election.

    Today too early to tell, obviously, but possible that as year progresses SCOTUS reversal of RvW could reduce current advantage in enthusiasm gap enjoyed by Republicans at present, by galvanizing, mobilizing and turning out Democrats & pro-choice swing voters, esp. in key, mostly-suburban counties and districts critical in key 2022 gubernatorial, senatorial, congressional, legislative and local races across America.

    I know this isnt the main takeaway, but what's a Hoosier?

    Good question.

    Short answer: a native or assimilated resident of State of Indiana.

    What? See wiki blurb below, but fact is, Indiana has one of the strongest state identities in the USA, based in part (like WVa) of tendency of bigger, richer neighbors looking down their noses at them.

    Note that in much of upland South, a "hoosier" is a uncooth rural yokel (even by uncooth rural yokel standards).

    Further note that in the early 1800s, residents of Illinois were called "Suckers" a nickname they shed (on purpose) long ago.

    Personally think that "Sucker" and "Hoosier" have pretty much the same meaning. With the former coming to mean in American argot NOT people from what we call the Land of Lincoln, but just the general run of, well, suckers.

    While on the other hand, Hoosiers came to refer, not to a universal class, but just to folks from Indiana.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosier

    Addendum - there was a lot of French Canadian influence in the Midwest, on the Great Lakes AND the Ohio River and it's tributaries such as the Wabash, the Ganges (sort of) of Indiana. Hence "hoosier" which is French (ditto).
    Wow, the things one learns on PB.

    Until 10 minutes ago, this was my only mental reference for the word:



  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Roger said:

    OT. A strange day....

    I met my brother and his wife in Grasmere. He lives in Amsterdam and has had a Ukrainian mother and seventeen year old son living with them for six weeks. The son speaks reasonable English the mother not at all but she has a Dutch to Ukrainian app and conversation isn't difficult. How long they stay is unknown

    They're both well educated and are enjoying learning about Dutch culture. The son had always wanted to travel west and was originally hoping their destination was England. Once they have registered in an EU country they can't move freely which is why they didn't register in Poland or the Czech Republic which were their first ports of call......

    Later I met an English woman who had just left Russia. She has lived in Moscow for twenty five years and she loves her life there. She left because foreigners were advised to leave. She had a reasonably harrowing journey via Turkey and had arrived at her aunt's house in the UK a few days earlier. She had a media job in Moscow and was fascinating. She's a very bright lady. The extraordinary thing is that she believes Russia is in the right.

    The conversation is too long to get into but she refutes the argument that the Russians are ill informed. She herself is multi lingual and reads the European press every day. Though not everyone's a fan of Putin the vast majority support his actions. She believes NATO is a threat to Russia and Putin had no alternative but to do what he did

    Interesting; leaving questions behind like:

    If so informed and supportive, why leave the country you love merely because someone advises you to. Does she not trust the hosts she supports?

    Does she really refute or merely reject the 'ill informed' argument. Does she say why media channels have been closed down?

    Does she think this is a war?

    What sort of threat is NATO to Russia, and why invade a non NATO country because of it?



  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Lorraine’s show on ITV averages around 1.2 million viewers, peaked at 1.7 million and is regularly beaten, as is GMB, by its BBC 1 rival.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I need educating about windfall taxes.

    Radio 4 this AM:

    7:20 Sir Ed interview: We will introduce a windfall tax on oil companies' excessive profits.
    (Also heavyweight denial of any Lib-Lab pact)
    7:30 (first I head) News Headline: BP makes £16bn loss.

    How does this work? Can a Govt say "we are having X billions of this, even though you made an overall loss because of the Ukraine War?"

    If this comes down to a Court scrimmage, I'd punt that the walking away from Russia voluntarily (if it was) would be a problem for BP.

    8:10 Sir Keir adopts the same position on BP. 20 minute interview and that was one of about three questions he answered, including about 4 goes at not answering whether the Durham Constabulary have been in contact again since the food-beer-food work event became news.

    Anne Marie Trevelyan suggesting that when Starmer gets his FPNs he doesn't have to resign. I can see what is at work here. "If Starmer doesn't resign for his egregious and wilful breach of Covid rules why should Johnson resign for the minor indiscretion of being ambushed by cake".

    If Starmer accepts an FPN he has to go.
    Why haven’t labour closed this story down. Starmer won’t be getting an FPN
    I dont think the lying about Rayner being there has helped
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    PM ends interview by saying “Who’s @reallorraine” and the Conservatives lose 5 million voters in one fell swoop 😂
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1521398267786977280

    So, who is #lorraine? Genuine Q
    And me
    It seems she is on telly 9-10 a.m. every day. who knew?

    *checks watch, deletes remarks about workshy slobs with nothing better to do between those hours*
    I genuinely have no idea who she is or ever watch her programme
    I never watch her programme but I know who she is as I would imagine do about 80% of the population, although perhaps she is better known among her fellow-Scots than in England. She famously hates Esther McVey, who she used to work with.
  • HYUFD said:

    That twitter thread posted earlier by @Taz contains some damning economic analysis but imo the biggest condemnation of Tory economic mismanagement is the fact that at the next GE real wages will be below the level they were when Labour left office in 2010.

    Can any PB Tories refute or defend that? Still all Labour's fault is it?

    https://twitter.com/technopopulist/status/1521122232097021953?s=21&t=cTVgar1NfQtvogk2F1iNDA

    For many years most voters have bought the line that the Tories are best for managing the economy. Surely, that belief is going to be shattered now.

    Unemployment still half the level Labour left in 2010.

    If real wages are down it is because of inflation due to the Ukraine situation and demand rising in excess of supply post lockdown
    Real wages were down in the 10 years to 2020 because of Covid lockdown and the Ukraine?
    They weren't. That's a myth.

    Real wages grew but not much, but that's because we were having to repay all the splurges as Brown pissed away all the money pre-2010.

    Taking the pay growth rate upto 2010 and setting it as a baseline would be only viable if we didn't have a tremendous budget deficit in 2010. Actually Brown was using money we couldn't afford to pay wages that couldn't be afforded, that's neither viable nor sustainable nor an appropriate baseline to use.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    From my new 8,000-sample poll, now at http://LordAshcroftPolls.com - how much does partygate really matter? https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/1521403435484164097/photo/1
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 2022

    HYUFD said:

    That twitter thread posted earlier by @Taz contains some damning economic analysis but imo the biggest condemnation of Tory economic mismanagement is the fact that at the next GE real wages will be below the level they were when Labour left office in 2010.

    Can any PB Tories refute or defend that? Still all Labour's fault is it?

    https://twitter.com/technopopulist/status/1521122232097021953?s=21&t=cTVgar1NfQtvogk2F1iNDA

    For many years most voters have bought the line that the Tories are best for managing the economy. Surely, that belief is going to be shattered now.

    Unemployment still half the level Labour left in 2010.

    If real wages are down it is because of inflation due to the Ukraine situation and demand rising in excess of supply post lockdown
    Real wages were down in the 10 years to 2020 because of Covid lockdown and the Ukraine?
    More they flatlined through rising gas costs etc, though were still higher in 2021 than 2020

    https://news.sky.com/story/real-wages-effectively-flatlined-in-lost-decade-of-growth-but-theres-a-glimmer-of-light-12428375
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    HYUFD said:

    That twitter thread posted earlier by @Taz contains some damning economic analysis but imo the biggest condemnation of Tory economic mismanagement is the fact that at the next GE real wages will be below the level they were when Labour left office in 2010.

    Can any PB Tories refute or defend that? Still all Labour's fault is it?

    https://twitter.com/technopopulist/status/1521122232097021953?s=21&t=cTVgar1NfQtvogk2F1iNDA

    For many years most voters have bought the line that the Tories are best for managing the economy. Surely, that belief is going to be shattered now.

    Unemployment still half the level Labour left in 2010.

    If real wages are down it is because of inflation due to the Ukraine situation and demand rising in excess of supply post lockdown
    Real wages were down in the 10 years to 2020 because of Covid lockdown and the Ukraine?
    They weren't. That's a myth.

    Real wages grew but not much, but that's because we were having to repay all the splurges as Brown pissed away all the money pre-2010.

    Taking the pay growth rate upto 2010 and setting it as a baseline would be only viable if we didn't have a tremendous budget deficit in 2010. Actually Brown was using money we couldn't afford to pay wages that couldn't be afforded, that's neither viable nor sustainable nor an appropriate baseline to use.
    Brown was paying private sector wages?
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    I am glad to hear that you are getting better, Mike. Also, glad to hear that you were sensible about the paracetamol dosage. A woman round the corner from me died of a bleed to the brain at Easter after dosing on paracetamol and ibuprofen to counter the effects of her covid. One thing I found with covid was that it affected my memory and it was easy to forget when I had the last paracetamol so I had to write it down.

    I hope your wife soon tests negative. I had four days of testing positve with a very faint line, which was frustrating.

    Finally, some good news: Anne Robinson is leaving Countdown. Suzie Dent's word of the day: Relief.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,149

    Cyclefree said:

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Yes. Radio 4 was saying 26!states would ban/restrict abortion as a result - more than half of the US.

    If the voters in those states want to elect representatives who will do that why shouldn’t they be permitted to do so?

    The UK has no real understanding of proper federalism
    If the voters in those states want to elect representatives who will deny lack people the vote why shouldn't they be permitted to do so?

    After all, using the reasoning in the leaked decision, blacks having the right to vote is hardly rooted in history in the US. Why is that not as much of a "phony right" as the other rights criticised by this draft judgment?

    And if they should not be permitted to do so, on what basis do you say this?
    Because there is an explicit protection in the Bill of Rights (I think it’s there rather than the constitution but happy to be corrected). But if they could work through the process to amend the Bill of Rights then they would have the legal ability to do that. It wouldn’t be the right thing to do, of course…

    Alito’s argument isn’t based on “rooted in history” - that was an aside - and focusing on that gives an incorrect interpretation. His fundamental position is that (1) abortion is not a right explicitly protected in the constitution; (2) Roe vs Wade was a novel interpretation and a classical example of judicial activism; (3) he takes a strict view that the constitution does not support judicial activism; and therefore (4) the federal courts have no right to impose their views on state governments. It’s a narrow and dry interpretation of constitutional law but one I have a lot of sympathy for from a philosophical perspective.

    From a personal perspective, FWIW, I see abortion as a conflict between the rights of the mother and the rights of the unborn child. I would tend to choose viability (c 20 weeks) as the point when the child has the right to life. And I would certainly vote against any candidate who intended to ban it de jure or de facto.
    When we were wrestling with the details in Parliament in my time, I asked for evidence on when a foetus can start to feel pain (a bit analogously to the animal sentience issue). I was told "approximmately 20 weeks", which makes the current law look about right.

    I had what was pretty much the only amendment in the debate which got broad cross-party backbench support, proposing that, as part of the preparation for an abortion, women should receive a factual information sheet on the options available (including adoption, as well as the current position on child benefits). It didn't have official Government or Opposition support so didn't pass, but I still think it's a worthwhile idea - leaving the decision to the woman, but ensuring that she has all the information available to help make the choice.
    I wonder whether the claimed current judgement will create an opportunity for a better consideration, than a 50 year old Court ruling. Though Roe vs Wade was quite thoughtful.

    Is this on the cards after the elections later this year in the USA. I'm assuming it would need full Dem control.

    Perhaps I'm being naive, given US politics.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Back Home Again in Indiana - Jim Neighbors (1988 - Indy 500)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX43VZi7UKQ

    I once hear a very robust, upbeat version of this song, sung by the delegates and alternates to the 1986 Indiana State Democratic Convention.

    Whole crowd got up and belted it out. Lead by women, got the feeling that it was a standard for every high school choir in the whole state.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    To be fair to Mad Nad, the Daily Fail chose the picture not her, she just shared the article.

    And to be fair to the Daily Heil, its not unusual for papers to use stock photos in their articles, so they've attached an image of Keir eating curry to an article about Keir eating curry - not claimed that is the image of that event.

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/02/dozens-migrants-land-dover-despite-rwanda-plan/

    Record number of Channel migrants reaching the UK as crossings ‘fuelled by Rwanda delays’

    ...

    It followed 11 days of bad weather that had prevented any migrants crossing the Channel, prompting speculation – dismissed by government sources – that the Rwanda plan was already deterring migrants.

    But on Monday night, France claimed the policy had created a window of opportunity that people-smugglers were exploiting. Pierre-Henri Dumont, the Calais MP, said there was evidence that criminals were encouraging migrants to attempt the crossing before the measures take effect.

    ...

    Genius

    PP fanbois pls explain

    I wonder if the government will ever have the nerve to send somebody to Rwanda if they really don't want to go. A truly unwilling transportee would have to be restrained and/or sedated in a nappy with at least two minimum wage Serco goons accompanying. It's not a happy picture.
    Why not, they already do this when they're deporting people. One guy was so distressed to be leaving that the Serco goons killed him, IIRC. The government would probably live stream it on GB News for the edification of their mouth breather supporters.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    That twitter thread posted earlier by @Taz contains some damning economic analysis but imo the biggest condemnation of Tory economic mismanagement is the fact that at the next GE real wages will be below the level they were when Labour left office in 2010.

    Can any PB Tories refute or defend that? Still all Labour's fault is it?

    https://twitter.com/technopopulist/status/1521122232097021953?s=21&t=cTVgar1NfQtvogk2F1iNDA

    For many years most voters have bought the line that the Tories are best for managing the economy. Surely, that belief is going to be shattered now.

    Unemployment still half the level Labour left in 2010.

    If real wages are down it is because of inflation due to the Ukraine situation and demand rising in excess of supply post lockdown
    Are you reading that from the CCHQ autocue?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    HYUFD said:

    That twitter thread posted earlier by @Taz contains some damning economic analysis but imo the biggest condemnation of Tory economic mismanagement is the fact that at the next GE real wages will be below the level they were when Labour left office in 2010.

    Can any PB Tories refute or defend that? Still all Labour's fault is it?

    https://twitter.com/technopopulist/status/1521122232097021953?s=21&t=cTVgar1NfQtvogk2F1iNDA

    For many years most voters have bought the line that the Tories are best for managing the economy. Surely, that belief is going to be shattered now.

    Unemployment still half the level Labour left in 2010.

    If real wages are down it is because of inflation due to the Ukraine situation and demand rising in excess of supply post lockdown
    Are you reading that from the CCHQ autocue?
    Live from Teeside.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    IshmaelZ said:

    I do have a question for US-based PBers. How much of the desire to chain women to the bed comes from some deranged religious conviction and how much because it upsets the liberals?

    What I struggle to comprehend is how people vote for this. Vaginas are dangerous so we read in the UK and at least some Americans have them. Why would you vote to remove your own rights? To risk bleeding to death in agony (as @Cyclefree and Mrs RP have both said this morning). To subjugate your own gender - or at least your wives and daughters?

    I do what I can to empower my daughter and to shape the world so that she can be all that she wants to be. The idea of raising her to be some man's property and saying "if you are raped it's God's will" is just crazy.

    So do they do it because they genuinely believe in the non-rights of women? Or because they have been raised to hate liberals so hard that they will remove their own rights just to do them over?

    I read someone credible, can't remember who, who said that the way to understand this is racism: people who get abortions are disproportionately black. Same with free healthcare, can't have black people being treated on my tax dollar.

    This sounds incredible but compare the war on drugs, a senior member of Nixon's government is on record as saying it was just a proxy for a war on black people
    America is becoming a more and more alien country every year it seems. To be banning women from controlling their own bodies is utterly disgusting if that comes to pass.
    I can’t remember you coming out with the same hyperbole about the UK prior to 2019. Before which time Westminster had been content to devolve the issue to Stormont, with Northern Ireland adopting a distinctly different policy to the rest of the Uk?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I need educating about windfall taxes.

    Radio 4 this AM:

    7:20 Sir Ed interview: We will introduce a windfall tax on oil companies' excessive profits.
    (Also heavyweight denial of any Lib-Lab pact)
    7:30 (first I head) News Headline: BP makes £16bn loss.

    How does this work? Can a Govt say "we are having X billions of this, even though you made an overall loss because of the Ukraine War?"

    If this comes down to a Court scrimmage, I'd punt that the walking away from Russia voluntarily (if it was) would be a problem for BP.

    8:10 Sir Keir adopts the same position on BP. 20 minute interview and that was one of about three questions he answered, including about 4 goes at not answering whether the Durham Constabulary have been in contact again since the food-beer-food work event became news.

    Anne Marie Trevelyan suggesting that when Starmer gets his FPNs he doesn't have to resign. I can see what is at work here. "If Starmer doesn't resign for his egregious and wilful breach of Covid rules why should Johnson resign for the minor indiscretion of being ambushed by cake".

    If Starmer accepts an FPN he has to go.
    Why haven’t labour closed this story down. Starmer won’t be getting an FPN
    I dont think the lying about Rayner being there has helped
    I agree and have said the same.

    It just looks bad.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,278
    Good to hear you have recovered well Mike.

    Best wishes for a swift recovery to Mrs Smithson :)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    To be fair to Mad Nad, the Daily Fail chose the picture not her, she just shared the article.

    And to be fair to the Daily Heil, its not unusual for papers to use stock photos in their articles, so they've attached an image of Keir eating curry to an article about Keir eating curry - not claimed that is the image of that event.

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.
    BR Lolz pt94......
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,357

    IshmaelZ said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I need educating about windfall taxes.

    Radio 4 this AM:

    7:20 Sir Ed interview: We will introduce a windfall tax on oil companies' excessive profits.
    (Also heavyweight denial of any Lib-Lab pact)
    7:30 (first I head) News Headline: BP makes £16bn loss.

    How does this work? Can a Govt say "we are having X billions of this, even though you made an overall loss because of the Ukraine War?"

    If this comes down to a Court scrimmage, I'd punt that the walking away from Russia voluntarily (if it was) would be a problem for BP.

    8:10 Sir Keir adopts the same position on BP. 20 minute interview and that was one of about three questions he answered, including about 4 goes at not answering whether the Durham Constabulary have been in contact again since the food-beer-food work event became news.

    You need educating about the basics of the constitution first. You would impose a tax by primary legislation. In what court would you expect a scrimmage about that?
    I think the issue being raised is what defines profit. There is no problem taxing excess oil company profits - even Thatcher did so and that legislation is still on the statute books. But if there is no profit to tax, its all a bit moot.

    The question then is what is profit? Its relatively simple for big profitable companies to reduce their stated profits. Whilst I am sure that Ukraine is slamming oil as it is my own industry I would be surprised if the losses were so large as to offset profits made everywhere else in this time of elevated oil prices.

    But how would a government or a court prove it...?
    Politically you talk about taxing profits, but I believe the tax on the statute books is a simple revenue tax, which reduces the bookkeeping tricks available for avoidance compared to taxing profits.
  • HYUFD said:

    That twitter thread posted earlier by @Taz contains some damning economic analysis but imo the biggest condemnation of Tory economic mismanagement is the fact that at the next GE real wages will be below the level they were when Labour left office in 2010.

    Can any PB Tories refute or defend that? Still all Labour's fault is it?

    https://twitter.com/technopopulist/status/1521122232097021953?s=21&t=cTVgar1NfQtvogk2F1iNDA

    For many years most voters have bought the line that the Tories are best for managing the economy. Surely, that belief is going to be shattered now.

    Unemployment still half the level Labour left in 2010.

    If real wages are down it is because of inflation due to the Ukraine situation and demand rising in excess of supply post lockdown
    Real wages were down in the 10 years to 2020 because of Covid lockdown and the Ukraine?
    They weren't. That's a myth.

    Real wages grew but not much, but that's because we were having to repay all the splurges as Brown pissed away all the money pre-2010.

    Taking the pay growth rate upto 2010 and setting it as a baseline would be only viable if we didn't have a tremendous budget deficit in 2010. Actually Brown was using money we couldn't afford to pay wages that couldn't be afforded, that's neither viable nor sustainable nor an appropriate baseline to use.
    Brown was paying private sector wages?
    No but there's a multiplier effect for all the public sector expenditure that couldn't be afforded - plus the tax gap of not taxing the private sector the amount needed to pay the public sector.

    Pay people more (but via borrowing) people have more disposable income, can spend more in discretionary expenditure in private venues, the private venues can pay staff more.

    Taxes go up (to pay for public sector), people have less disposable income, can spend less in discretionary expenditure, the private sector has less to pay its staff with.

    You can't divorce the two.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    *** BETTING POST ***

    You can get 2/1 on the LibDems winning control of Woking Council. 10 of the 30 seats are up for grabs and, knowing the area as I do, I think this is a value bet. They have made steady gains in recent times and they are already the largest party. It's clear that the party machine is up and running hard for this.

    I've only seen LibDem posters up and there is a lot of anger directed towards the Conservatives. In addition the tory run minority council has squandered huge amounts of money and the council is now the third most most debt-ridden in the country.

    I think at 2/1 this is value. I'm on.

    https://www.betfair.com/sport/politics

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/partygate-made-conservatives-grumpy-what-23812465

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/staggering-amount-woking-borough-council-23066714

    https://wokinglibdems.org.uk/en/article/2021/1421356/shock-by-election-win-paves-way-for-lib-dem-gain-in-woking

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/willforster/polling_day_in_woking

    Woking is only 26th on the LD target list for the next general election, no surprise they are targeting it
    Although it might be a target in the GE, it is not being especially done so in these local elections. There are no calls for help even from boroughs without election (eg where I am and I am only 5 miles from Woking). It is and has been for many years a very tight and actively fought borough by both the Tories an LDs and with a Tory run borough who are in a minority and with financial issues it is prime territory for LD gains to take overall control. Just a tough set of circumstances for the Tories here really.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,353

    nico679 said:

    The SCOTUS decision will inflame US politics at a time when it’s already deeply polarized .

    The choice is clear in November and this will impact many of the close races . Governors and state legislatures will be very much more at the forefront and it’s likely you’ll see a lot of up ballot effect .

    Make no mistake behind the scenes the Dems will know this is a gift from the court which could help them save the senate.

    Yup, that and letting Trump back on Twitter.

    Still, it remains to be seen if the court will actually do this. If they're religious ideologues they will, but if they're political hacks they won't: What a political hack would do would be to leak that they were going to overturn, then do something that doesn't actually technically overturn but lets states almost completely ban abortion in practice. After the leak this will appear moderate and not really do much for Dem turnout.
    That's what I expect to happen. Some of the intended legislation in deep Red States, if Roe is overturned, is pretty grim, and would surely impact upon the Republicans' chances.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    kle4 said:

    Also Primary Day in the great Hoosier State of Indiana

    In-person P-Day voting begins in a few hours, running from 6am - 6pm local time, which is EDT in most of the state EXCEPT for Northwest (Gary, Michigan City) and Southwest (Evanville) Indiana which are CDT.

    So first Indiana results will be coming in sometime after 11pm UK time tonight.

    According to the Gray Lady (NYT $)

    "Indiana’s primary also features some notable elections with implications for the direction of the Republican Party. This year, more incumbents at the state level are facing primary challengers from the right than in at least a decade, according to a review by The Indianapolis Star, potentially resulting in an even more conservative legislative supermajority.

    North of Indianapolis, in Hamilton County, the re-election campaign of the prosecutor D. Lee Buckingham against Greg Garrison, a conservative talk-show host, is garnering outsize attention: Mr. Buckingham has the support of former Vice President Mike Pence."

    Remains to be seen what impact today's news re: Roe v Wade may have on today's AND subsequent primaries as well as 2022 general election.

    Today too early to tell, obviously, but possible that as year progresses SCOTUS reversal of RvW could reduce current advantage in enthusiasm gap enjoyed by Republicans at present, by galvanizing, mobilizing and turning out Democrats & pro-choice swing voters, esp. in key, mostly-suburban counties and districts critical in key 2022 gubernatorial, senatorial, congressional, legislative and local races across America.

    I know this isnt the main takeaway, but what's a Hoosier?

    Good question.

    Short answer: a native or assimilated resident of State of Indiana.

    What? See wiki blurb below, but fact is, Indiana has one of the strongest state identities in the USA, based in part (like WVa) of tendency of bigger, richer neighbors looking down their noses at them.

    Note that in much of upland South, a "hoosier" is a uncooth rural yokel (even by uncooth rural yokel standards).

    Further note that in the early 1800s, residents of Illinois were called "Suckers" a nickname they shed (on purpose) long ago.

    Personally think that "Sucker" and "Hoosier" have pretty much the same meaning. With the former coming to mean in American argot NOT people from what we call the Land of Lincoln, but just the general run of, well, suckers.

    While on the other hand, Hoosiers came to refer, not to a universal class, but just to folks from Indiana.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosier

    Addendum - there was a lot of French Canadian influence in the Midwest, on the Great Lakes AND the Ohio River and it's tributaries such as the Wabash, the Ganges (sort of) of Indiana. Hence "hoosier" which is French (ditto).
    Canadians have the quite similar word Hoser, which was used a lot on How I Met Your Mother, that's the only reference to it I knew.
    Same word I think, also used in US, esp in northern states.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo should have hidden in a fridge again this morning

    He is to address the Ukraine Parliament this morning, the first Western leader to do so, so not hiding in a fridge
    I'm with you BigG.

    Boris must go ..then again he is the greatest Wartime Prime Minister since Churchill, and he didn't really break any Covid rules, and the Gray report must be canned because it was written by a Labour shill, and Starmer broke loads of rules whilst Boris was ambushed by a cake. Phew!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited May 2022

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    To be fair to Mad Nad, the Daily Fail chose the picture not her, she just shared the article.

    And to be fair to the Daily Heil, its not unusual for papers to use stock photos in their articles, so they've attached an image of Keir eating curry to an article about Keir eating curry - not claimed that is the image of that event.

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.
    BR Lolz pt94......
    How's it a Lolz? I despise the Daily Heil and am not a fan of Mad Nadz, as my choice of nomenclature for both of them should have made clear.

    But I'm also not a fan of Twitter lies and disinformation. News articles using stock imagery is nothing new and people misrepresenting it are just being stupid.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/02/dozens-migrants-land-dover-despite-rwanda-plan/

    Record number of Channel migrants reaching the UK as crossings ‘fuelled by Rwanda delays’

    ...

    It followed 11 days of bad weather that had prevented any migrants crossing the Channel, prompting speculation – dismissed by government sources – that the Rwanda plan was already deterring migrants.

    But on Monday night, France claimed the policy had created a window of opportunity that people-smugglers were exploiting. Pierre-Henri Dumont, the Calais MP, said there was evidence that criminals were encouraging migrants to attempt the crossing before the measures take effect.

    ...

    Genius

    PP fanbois pls explain

    I wonder if the government will ever have the nerve to send somebody to Rwanda if they really don't want to go. A truly unwilling transportee would have to be restrained and/or sedated in a nappy with at least two minimum wage Serco goons accompanying. It's not a happy picture.
    Your kidding. The first transportee will have his pockets (if not mouth) stuffed with gold, given likely as not a free passport for him and 20 of his closest (FAM) friends and told to make a good show of it for the cameras.

    Before flying back club class a few days later to his allocated council house in Chester Terrace.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Sean_F said:

    nico679 said:

    The SCOTUS decision will inflame US politics at a time when it’s already deeply polarized .

    The choice is clear in November and this will impact many of the close races . Governors and state legislatures will be very much more at the forefront and it’s likely you’ll see a lot of up ballot effect .

    Make no mistake behind the scenes the Dems will know this is a gift from the court which could help them save the senate.

    Yup, that and letting Trump back on Twitter.

    Still, it remains to be seen if the court will actually do this. If they're religious ideologues they will, but if they're political hacks they won't: What a political hack would do would be to leak that they were going to overturn, then do something that doesn't actually technically overturn but lets states almost completely ban abortion in practice. After the leak this will appear moderate and not really do much for Dem turnout.
    That's what I expect to happen. Some of the intended legislation in deep Red States, if Roe is overturned, is pretty grim, and would surely impact upon the Republicans' chances.
    Not in deep Red states as most voters there are anti abortion, though it might drive up Democrat turnout in blue and purple states which are more pro choice
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,910

    Roger said:

    OT. A strange day....

    I met my brother and his wife in Grasmere. He lives in Amsterdam and has had a Ukrainian mother and seventeen year old son living with them for six weeks. The son speaks reasonable English the mother not at all but she has a Dutch to Ukrainian app and conversation isn't difficult. How long they stay is unknown

    They're both well educated and are enjoying learning about Dutch culture. The son had always wanted to travel west and was originally hoping their destination was England. Once they have registered in an EU country they can't move freely which is why they didn't register in Poland or the Czech Republic which were their first ports of call......

    Later I met an English woman who had just left Russia. She has lived in Moscow for twenty five years and she loves her life there. She left because foreigners were advised to leave. She had a reasonably harrowing journey via Turkey and had arrived at her aunt's house in the UK a few days earlier. She had a media job in Moscow and was fascinating. She's a very bright lady. The extraordinary thing is that she believes Russia is in the right.

    The conversation is too long to get into but she refutes the argument that the Russians are ill informed. She herself is multi lingual and reads the European press every day. Though not everyone's a fan of Putin the vast majority support his actions. She believes NATO is a threat to Russia and Putin had no alternative but to do what he did

    I've no doubt many Germans in 1939 believed that Hitler had no alternative but to invade Poland etc.

    She has clearly gone native. What did she think NATO was planning to do to Russia if they hadn't invaded a foreign nation? NATO has always been defensive. Hell - if Putin had wanted to Russia could have joined NATO too.

    Insane.


    It is well known that people's opinions are formed over time and they override logic and even proven facts. Which is why getting excited by a front page headline in the Express is so fatuous. People are more likely to change their newspaper than believe a story that contradics a belief.

    Which is why I was so fascinated by this womans point of view. To meet someione so evidently bright without an axe to grind but to have it so wrong (from my point of view) is rarely as stark.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    NATO has always been defensive.

    What was NATO doing running ISAF in Afghanistan from 2005 to 2021? There wasn't much chance of the Taliban crossing the Rhine.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    *** BETTING POST ***

    You can get 2/1 on the LibDems winning control of Woking Council. 10 of the 30 seats are up for grabs and, knowing the area as I do, I think this is a value bet. They have made steady gains in recent times and they are already the largest party. It's clear that the party machine is up and running hard for this.

    I've only seen LibDem posters up and there is a lot of anger directed towards the Conservatives. In addition the tory run minority council has squandered huge amounts of money and the council is now the third most most debt-ridden in the country.

    I think at 2/1 this is value. I'm on.

    https://www.betfair.com/sport/politics

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/partygate-made-conservatives-grumpy-what-23812465

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/staggering-amount-woking-borough-council-23066714

    https://wokinglibdems.org.uk/en/article/2021/1421356/shock-by-election-win-paves-way-for-lib-dem-gain-in-woking

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/willforster/polling_day_in_woking

    Woking is only 26th on the LD target list for the next general election, no surprise they are targeting it
    Although it might be a target in the GE, it is not being especially done so in these local elections. There are no calls for help even from boroughs without election (eg where I am and I am only 5 miles from Woking). It is and has been for many years a very tight and actively fought borough by both the Tories an LDs and with a Tory run borough who are in a minority and with financial issues it is prime territory for LD gains to take overall control. Just a tough set of circumstances for the Tories here really.
    I expect the heaviest Tory losses on Thursday to be in anti Brexit areas which most dislike Boris.

    Woking was 56% Remain, similar councils in Remain areas of the Home Counties like Guildford and South Oxfordshire have already gone LD so I would not be surprised to see the LDs take it.

    The Tories are also likely to lose Tunbridge Wells on Thursday too partly for the same reasons as well as local factors
  • Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/02/dozens-migrants-land-dover-despite-rwanda-plan/

    Record number of Channel migrants reaching the UK as crossings ‘fuelled by Rwanda delays’

    ...

    It followed 11 days of bad weather that had prevented any migrants crossing the Channel, prompting speculation – dismissed by government sources – that the Rwanda plan was already deterring migrants.

    But on Monday night, France claimed the policy had created a window of opportunity that people-smugglers were exploiting. Pierre-Henri Dumont, the Calais MP, said there was evidence that criminals were encouraging migrants to attempt the crossing before the measures take effect.

    ...

    Genius

    PP fanbois pls explain

    I wonder if the government will ever have the nerve to send somebody to Rwanda if they really don't want to go. A truly unwilling transportee would have to be restrained and/or sedated in a nappy with at least two minimum wage Serco goons accompanying. It's not a happy picture.
    If that imagery went viral it'd probably do wonders for discouraging the people smuggling trade though. So getting a song and dance about how truly unwilling the people are is probably exactly what would be wanted.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,149
    IshmaelZ said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I need educating about windfall taxes.

    Radio 4 this AM:

    7:20 Sir Ed interview: We will introduce a windfall tax on oil companies' excessive profits.
    (Also heavyweight denial of any Lib-Lab pact)
    7:30 (first I head) News Headline: BP makes £16bn loss.

    How does this work? Can a Govt say "we are having X billions of this, even though you made an overall loss because of the Ukraine War?"

    If this comes down to a Court scrimmage, I'd punt that the walking away from Russia voluntarily (if it was) would be a problem for BP.

    8:10 Sir Keir adopts the same position on BP. 20 minute interview and that was one of about three questions he answered, including about 4 goes at not answering whether the Durham Constabulary have been in contact again since the food-beer-food work event became news.

    You need educating about the basics of the constitution first. You would impose a tax by primary legislation. In what court would you expect a scrimmage about that?
    One of the questions I am asking.

    We have no shortage of Court Actions challenging law or interpretation of law.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I need educating about windfall taxes.

    Radio 4 this AM:

    7:20 Sir Ed interview: We will introduce a windfall tax on oil companies' excessive profits.
    (Also heavyweight denial of any Lib-Lab pact)
    7:30 (first I head) News Headline: BP makes £16bn loss.

    How does this work? Can a Govt say "we are having X billions of this, even though you made an overall loss because of the Ukraine War?"

    If this comes down to a Court scrimmage, I'd punt that the walking away from Russia voluntarily (if it was) would be a problem for BP.

    8:10 Sir Keir adopts the same position on BP. 20 minute interview and that was one of about three questions he answered, including about 4 goes at not answering whether the Durham Constabulary have been in contact again since the food-beer-food work event became news.

    Anne Marie Trevelyan suggesting that when Starmer gets his FPNs he doesn't have to resign. I can see what is at work here. "If Starmer doesn't resign for his egregious and wilful breach of Covid rules why should Johnson resign for the minor indiscretion of being ambushed by cake".

    If Starmer accepts an FPN he has to go.
    Why haven’t labour closed this story down. Starmer won’t be getting an FPN
    Hypothesis: Starmer knows the Labour campaign event was legal. Both because the police have said "nothing to suggest an offence being committed" when looking at the evidence and because he's a top lawyer.

    So, what does allowing this to rumble on do? He knows at the end of this that he will be cleared. Again. Which will make all the Tories demanding he get a fine for having a curry with Frank Dobson look stupid.

    But far more than that - what is everyone reading this story doing? They are saying "Boris broke the law". Reinforced over and over and over again. That they want Starmer to get a fine like Boris restates that Boris got fined for breaking the law. So instead of the campaign being able to move onto areas the Tories want to talk about (like Council Tax) the tank is neatly parked on the Tories lawn.

    "Boris broke the law and got fined. Its not fair that the police won't investigate Starmer." just keep reminding people that the PM is a crook.

    Perhaps that is why he has allowed it to roll on and on.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    kle4 said:

    Also Primary Day in the great Hoosier State of Indiana

    In-person P-Day voting begins in a few hours, running from 6am - 6pm local time, which is EDT in most of the state EXCEPT for Northwest (Gary, Michigan City) and Southwest (Evanville) Indiana which are CDT.

    So first Indiana results will be coming in sometime after 11pm UK time tonight.

    According to the Gray Lady (NYT $)

    "Indiana’s primary also features some notable elections with implications for the direction of the Republican Party. This year, more incumbents at the state level are facing primary challengers from the right than in at least a decade, according to a review by The Indianapolis Star, potentially resulting in an even more conservative legislative supermajority.

    North of Indianapolis, in Hamilton County, the re-election campaign of the prosecutor D. Lee Buckingham against Greg Garrison, a conservative talk-show host, is garnering outsize attention: Mr. Buckingham has the support of former Vice President Mike Pence."

    Remains to be seen what impact today's news re: Roe v Wade may have on today's AND subsequent primaries as well as 2022 general election.

    Today too early to tell, obviously, but possible that as year progresses SCOTUS reversal of RvW could reduce current advantage in enthusiasm gap enjoyed by Republicans at present, by galvanizing, mobilizing and turning out Democrats & pro-choice swing voters, esp. in key, mostly-suburban counties and districts critical in key 2022 gubernatorial, senatorial, congressional, legislative and local races across America.

    I know this isnt the main takeaway, but what's a Hoosier?

    Good question.

    Short answer: a native or assimilated resident of State of Indiana.

    What? See wiki blurb below, but fact is, Indiana has one of the strongest state identities in the USA, based in part (like WVa) of tendency of bigger, richer neighbors looking down their noses at them.

    Note that in much of upland South, a "hoosier" is a uncooth rural yokel (even by uncooth rural yokel standards).

    Further note that in the early 1800s, residents of Illinois were called "Suckers" a nickname they shed (on purpose) long ago.

    Personally think that "Sucker" and "Hoosier" have pretty much the same meaning. With the former coming to mean in American argot NOT people from what we call the Land of Lincoln, but just the general run of, well, suckers.

    While on the other hand, Hoosiers came to refer, not to a universal class, but just to folks from Indiana.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosier

    Addendum - there was a lot of French Canadian influence in the Midwest, on the Great Lakes AND the Ohio River and it's tributaries such as the Wabash, the Ganges (sort of) of Indiana. Hence "hoosier" which is French (ditto).
    Canadians have the quite similar word Hoser, which was used a lot on How I Met Your Mother, that's the only reference to it I knew.
    Hoosier has a movie of the name about a basketball team which helped cement the identity. I saw it on a plane in the days when there was no choice.
    Hoser was made famous by Bob and Doug on SNL. It means loser. From the convention that losing hockey teams at very low levels were responsible for hosing down the ice to be zambonied for the next game.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900

    IshmaelZ said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I need educating about windfall taxes.

    Radio 4 this AM:

    7:20 Sir Ed interview: We will introduce a windfall tax on oil companies' excessive profits.
    (Also heavyweight denial of any Lib-Lab pact)
    7:30 (first I head) News Headline: BP makes £16bn loss.

    How does this work? Can a Govt say "we are having X billions of this, even though you made an overall loss because of the Ukraine War?"

    If this comes down to a Court scrimmage, I'd punt that the walking away from Russia voluntarily (if it was) would be a problem for BP.

    8:10 Sir Keir adopts the same position on BP. 20 minute interview and that was one of about three questions he answered, including about 4 goes at not answering whether the Durham Constabulary have been in contact again since the food-beer-food work event became news.

    You need educating about the basics of the constitution first. You would impose a tax by primary legislation. In what court would you expect a scrimmage about that?
    I think the issue being raised is what defines profit. There is no problem taxing excess oil company profits - even Thatcher did so and that legislation is still on the statute books. But if there is no profit to tax, its all a bit moot.

    The question then is what is profit? Its relatively simple for big profitable companies to reduce their stated profits. Whilst I am sure that Ukraine is slamming oil as it is my own industry I would be surprised if the losses were so large as to offset profits made everywhere else in this time of elevated oil prices.

    But how would a government or a court prove it...?
    Politically you talk about taxing profits, but I believe the tax on the statute books is a simple revenue tax, which reduces the bookkeeping tricks available for avoidance compared to taxing profits.
    I agree - which is why I support changing the nil rate n the Tory revenue tax and not the imposition of a windfall tax. Its lazy politics by the parties proposing it (my own included).

    So why are they doing so? Because they know there is zero chance of any money being raised by BP et al, so just use that reality as a stick to beat the Tories with.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,149

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    To be fair to Mad Nad, the Daily Fail chose the picture not her, she just shared the article.

    And to be fair to the Daily Heil, its not unusual for papers to use stock photos in their articles, so they've attached an image of Keir eating curry to an article about Keir eating curry - not claimed that is the image of that event.

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.
    BR Lolz pt94......
    Faceplant.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Hmm, Tomb Raider's been sold for $300m. Be interesting to see what angle the new games go... though I fear the games as a service nonsense may rear its ugly head.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/02/dozens-migrants-land-dover-despite-rwanda-plan/

    Record number of Channel migrants reaching the UK as crossings ‘fuelled by Rwanda delays’

    ...

    It followed 11 days of bad weather that had prevented any migrants crossing the Channel, prompting speculation – dismissed by government sources – that the Rwanda plan was already deterring migrants.

    But on Monday night, France claimed the policy had created a window of opportunity that people-smugglers were exploiting. Pierre-Henri Dumont, the Calais MP, said there was evidence that criminals were encouraging migrants to attempt the crossing before the measures take effect.

    ...

    Genius

    PP fanbois pls explain

    I wonder if the government will ever have the nerve to send somebody to Rwanda if they really don't want to go. A truly unwilling transportee would have to be restrained and/or sedated in a nappy with at least two minimum wage Serco goons accompanying. It's not a happy picture.
    Why not, they already do this when they're deporting people. One guy was so distressed to be leaving that the Serco goons killed him, IIRC. The government would probably live stream it on GB News for the edification of their mouth breather supporters.
    For The (Final) Rwanda Solution to work they are going to have to do a lot more of it with much greater frequency.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,661
    If you go on GMB, you should know who Lorraine Kelly is. No doubt about that.
  • moonshine said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I do have a question for US-based PBers. How much of the desire to chain women to the bed comes from some deranged religious conviction and how much because it upsets the liberals?

    What I struggle to comprehend is how people vote for this. Vaginas are dangerous so we read in the UK and at least some Americans have them. Why would you vote to remove your own rights? To risk bleeding to death in agony (as @Cyclefree and Mrs RP have both said this morning). To subjugate your own gender - or at least your wives and daughters?

    I do what I can to empower my daughter and to shape the world so that she can be all that she wants to be. The idea of raising her to be some man's property and saying "if you are raped it's God's will" is just crazy.

    So do they do it because they genuinely believe in the non-rights of women? Or because they have been raised to hate liberals so hard that they will remove their own rights just to do them over?

    I read someone credible, can't remember who, who said that the way to understand this is racism: people who get abortions are disproportionately black. Same with free healthcare, can't have black people being treated on my tax dollar.

    This sounds incredible but compare the war on drugs, a senior member of Nixon's government is on record as saying it was just a proxy for a war on black people
    America is becoming a more and more alien country every year it seems. To be banning women from controlling their own bodies is utterly disgusting if that comes to pass.
    I can’t remember you coming out with the same hyperbole about the UK prior to 2019. Before which time Westminster had been content to devolve the issue to Stormont, with Northern Ireland adopting a distinctly different policy to the rest of the Uk?
    You're categorically wrong, I always thought it was disgusting that it wasn't available in Northern Ireland. And I've always found Northern Ireland to be alien too.

    However women in Northern Ireland were quite easily able to go across the water and get an abortion in a civilised country like England, Scotland or Wales. They shouldn't have to, but they were able to easily. The same basic ease won't be readily available to the unfortunate people in America being denied control over their own country.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/02/dozens-migrants-land-dover-despite-rwanda-plan/

    Record number of Channel migrants reaching the UK as crossings ‘fuelled by Rwanda delays’

    ...

    It followed 11 days of bad weather that had prevented any migrants crossing the Channel, prompting speculation – dismissed by government sources – that the Rwanda plan was already deterring migrants.

    But on Monday night, France claimed the policy had created a window of opportunity that people-smugglers were exploiting. Pierre-Henri Dumont, the Calais MP, said there was evidence that criminals were encouraging migrants to attempt the crossing before the measures take effect.

    ...

    Genius

    PP fanbois pls explain

    I wonder if the government will ever have the nerve to send somebody to Rwanda if they really don't want to go. A truly unwilling transportee would have to be restrained and/or sedated in a nappy with at least two minimum wage Serco goons accompanying. It's not a happy picture.
    If that imagery went viral it'd probably do wonders for discouraging the people smuggling trade though. So getting a song and dance about how truly unwilling the people are is probably exactly what would be wanted.
    It would make you proud to be British wouldn't it Bart.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:


    * Pavement, damn it

    Sidewalk is more accurate.

    Pavement is the stuff the sidewalk is made of
    bollocks you halfwit
    Morning Malc, hope all is well with you and yours.
    Morning Taz, yes all very well thanks. Back at work after the long weekend. Hope you and family are well.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    To be fair to Mad Nad, the Daily Fail chose the picture not her, she just shared the article.

    And to be fair to the Daily Heil, its not unusual for papers to use stock photos in their articles, so they've attached an image of Keir eating curry to an article about Keir eating curry - not claimed that is the image of that event.

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.
    BR Lolz pt94......
    How's it a Lolz? I despise the Daily Heil and am not a fan of Mad Nadz, as my choice of nomenclature for both of them should have made clear.

    But I'm also not a fan of Twitter lies and disinformation. News articles using stock imagery is nothing new and people misrepresenting it are just being stupid.
    So the cabinet minister responsible for media publicly attacks the leader of the opposition for something the police have already said was not a crime using a fake photo, and it is the people who point this out that are misrepresenting.......
  • TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/02/dozens-migrants-land-dover-despite-rwanda-plan/

    Record number of Channel migrants reaching the UK as crossings ‘fuelled by Rwanda delays’

    ...

    It followed 11 days of bad weather that had prevented any migrants crossing the Channel, prompting speculation – dismissed by government sources – that the Rwanda plan was already deterring migrants.

    But on Monday night, France claimed the policy had created a window of opportunity that people-smugglers were exploiting. Pierre-Henri Dumont, the Calais MP, said there was evidence that criminals were encouraging migrants to attempt the crossing before the measures take effect.

    ...

    Genius

    PP fanbois pls explain

    I wonder if the government will ever have the nerve to send somebody to Rwanda if they really don't want to go. A truly unwilling transportee would have to be restrained and/or sedated in a nappy with at least two minimum wage Serco goons accompanying. It's not a happy picture.
    If that imagery went viral it'd probably do wonders for discouraging the people smuggling trade though. So getting a song and dance about how truly unwilling the people are is probably exactly what would be wanted.
    It would make you proud to be British wouldn't it Bart.
    No, absolutely not. Nothing about the situation in the Channel makes me proud. I'm ashamed of how many people are drowning in the Channel at the minute, it is a tragedy we need to stop and there are no good solutions, so we need to choose the least bad solution.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo should have hidden in a fridge again this morning

    He is to address the Ukraine Parliament this morning, the first Western leader to do so, so not hiding in a fridge
    He's not responsible to them. He's hiding from the voters of the UK. The fridge doesn't have to be painted white.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    In connection with learned discussion re: Hoosier, in spirit of semi-candid disclosure, my avatar, Eugene Victor Deb, Indiana's greatest son.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited May 2022

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I need educating about windfall taxes.

    Radio 4 this AM:

    7:20 Sir Ed interview: We will introduce a windfall tax on oil companies' excessive profits.
    (Also heavyweight denial of any Lib-Lab pact)
    7:30 (first I head) News Headline: BP makes £16bn loss.

    How does this work? Can a Govt say "we are having X billions of this, even though you made an overall loss because of the Ukraine War?"

    If this comes down to a Court scrimmage, I'd punt that the walking away from Russia voluntarily (if it was) would be a problem for BP.

    8:10 Sir Keir adopts the same position on BP. 20 minute interview and that was one of about three questions he answered, including about 4 goes at not answering whether the Durham Constabulary have been in contact again since the food-beer-food work event became news.

    Anne Marie Trevelyan suggesting that when Starmer gets his FPNs he doesn't have to resign. I can see what is at work here. "If Starmer doesn't resign for his egregious and wilful breach of Covid rules why should Johnson resign for the minor indiscretion of being ambushed by cake".

    If Starmer accepts an FPN he has to go.
    Why haven’t labour closed this story down. Starmer won’t be getting an FPN
    Hypothesis: Starmer knows the Labour campaign event was legal. Both because the police have said "nothing to suggest an offence being committed" when looking at the evidence and because he's a top lawyer.

    So, what does allowing this to rumble on do? He knows at the end of this that he will be cleared. Again. Which will make all the Tories demanding he get a fine for having a curry with Frank Dobson look stupid.

    But far more than that - what is everyone reading this story doing? They are saying "Boris broke the law". Reinforced over and over and over again. That they want Starmer to get a fine like Boris restates that Boris got fined for breaking the law. So instead of the campaign being able to move onto areas the Tories want to talk about (like Council Tax) the tank is neatly parked on the Tories lawn.

    "Boris broke the law and got fined. Its not fair that the police won't investigate Starmer." just keep reminding people that the PM is a crook.

    Perhaps that is why he has allowed it to roll on and on.
    Which is one interpretation.
    Which raises the issue. Why are the Mail and the Tories so keen on keeping the issue going?
    The only thought I can conclude is they know the PM has multiple fines, to be revealed next Friday.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    To be fair to Mad Nad, the Daily Fail chose the picture not her, she just shared the article.

    And to be fair to the Daily Heil, its not unusual for papers to use stock photos in their articles, so they've attached an image of Keir eating curry to an article about Keir eating curry - not claimed that is the image of that event.

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.
    BR Lolz pt94......
    How's it a Lolz? I despise the Daily Heil and am not a fan of Mad Nadz, as my choice of nomenclature for both of them should have made clear.

    But I'm also not a fan of Twitter lies and disinformation. News articles using stock imagery is nothing new and people misrepresenting it are just being stupid.
    So the cabinet minister responsible for media publicly attacks the leader of the opposition for something the police have already said was not a crime using a fake photo, and it is the people who point this out that are misrepresenting.......
    She didn't use a fake photo, that's been falsely cropped to imply that. She shared an article from a Daily Heil article, and the Daily Heil used a stock photo of Keir eating curry to attach to a story about . . . Keir eating curry. She referenced Keir eating curry in her text too.

    Stock photos are nothing new.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Yes we’re all good too thanks and back to work today.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/02/dozens-migrants-land-dover-despite-rwanda-plan/

    Record number of Channel migrants reaching the UK as crossings ‘fuelled by Rwanda delays’

    ...

    It followed 11 days of bad weather that had prevented any migrants crossing the Channel, prompting speculation – dismissed by government sources – that the Rwanda plan was already deterring migrants.

    But on Monday night, France claimed the policy had created a window of opportunity that people-smugglers were exploiting. Pierre-Henri Dumont, the Calais MP, said there was evidence that criminals were encouraging migrants to attempt the crossing before the measures take effect.

    ...

    Genius

    PP fanbois pls explain

    I wonder if the government will ever have the nerve to send somebody to Rwanda if they really don't want to go. A truly unwilling transportee would have to be restrained and/or sedated in a nappy with at least two minimum wage Serco goons accompanying. It's not a happy picture.
    If that imagery went viral it'd probably do wonders for discouraging the people smuggling trade though. So getting a song and dance about how truly unwilling the people are is probably exactly what would be wanted.
    It would make you proud to be British wouldn't it Bart.
    No, absolutely not. Nothing about the situation in the Channel makes me proud. I'm ashamed of how many people are drowning in the Channel at the minute, it is a tragedy we need to stop and there are no good solutions, so we need to choose the least bad solution.
    Not been many reports of anyone drowning recently. They are guaranteed to be picked up now and brought in on a decent shop going by the news. Would be cheaper to do it by ferries rather than half the navy and planes/ drones doing it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I need educating about windfall taxes.

    Radio 4 this AM:

    7:20 Sir Ed interview: We will introduce a windfall tax on oil companies' excessive profits.
    (Also heavyweight denial of any Lib-Lab pact)
    7:30 (first I head) News Headline: BP makes £16bn loss.

    How does this work? Can a Govt say "we are having X billions of this, even though you made an overall loss because of the Ukraine War?"

    If this comes down to a Court scrimmage, I'd punt that the walking away from Russia voluntarily (if it was) would be a problem for BP.

    8:10 Sir Keir adopts the same position on BP. 20 minute interview and that was one of about three questions he answered, including about 4 goes at not answering whether the Durham Constabulary have been in contact again since the food-beer-food work event became news.

    Anne Marie Trevelyan suggesting that when Starmer gets his FPNs he doesn't have to resign. I can see what is at work here. "If Starmer doesn't resign for his egregious and wilful breach of Covid rules why should Johnson resign for the minor indiscretion of being ambushed by cake".

    If Starmer accepts an FPN he has to go.
    Why haven’t labour closed this story down. Starmer won’t be getting an FPN
    Hypothesis: Starmer knows the Labour campaign event was legal. Both because the police have said "nothing to suggest an offence being committed" when looking at the evidence and because he's a top lawyer.

    So, what does allowing this to rumble on do? He knows at the end of this that he will be cleared. Again. Which will make all the Tories demanding he get a fine for having a curry with Frank Dobson look stupid.

    But far more than that - what is everyone reading this story doing? They are saying "Boris broke the law". Reinforced over and over and over again. That they want Starmer to get a fine like Boris restates that Boris got fined for breaking the law. So instead of the campaign being able to move onto areas the Tories want to talk about (like Council Tax) the tank is neatly parked on the Tories lawn.

    "Boris broke the law and got fined. Its not fair that the police won't investigate Starmer." just keep reminding people that the PM is a crook.

    Perhaps that is why he has allowed it to roll on and on.
    Which is one interpretation.
    Which raises the issue. Why are the Mail and the Tories so keen on keeping the issue going?
    The only thought I can conclude is they know the PM has multiple fines, to be revealed next Friday.
    Sure! We know this is coming and they had tried to smooth the impact by pre-leaking some of them. And then the pivot to "we can get Kier fined as well!!!"

    Except that to be fined you need to have done something wrong. And the only evidence submitted - even after days of P1 leads is a video by Tory/Corbynite (same thing) students which the police have already reviewed.

    And so they miss the target. But "Kier looks as shifty as Boris" just reminds everyone how shifty Boris is. Well done Tories, well done.
  • Keir ate curry is a stupid story befitting the Heil in its stupidity, but the Heil used a stock photo of Keir eating curry to attach to their stupid Keir ate a curry story is even stupider.

    What kind of idiocy is this? Have we nothing smarter to discuss, are we all to be reduced to the most petulant and pathetic discussions imaginable? Ridiculous on all sides it seems.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    *** BETTING POST ***

    You can get 2/1 on the LibDems winning control of Woking Council. 10 of the 30 seats are up for grabs and, knowing the area as I do, I think this is a value bet. They have made steady gains in recent times and they are already the largest party. It's clear that the party machine is up and running hard for this.

    I've only seen LibDem posters up and there is a lot of anger directed towards the Conservatives. In addition the tory run minority council has squandered huge amounts of money and the council is now the third most most debt-ridden in the country.

    I think at 2/1 this is value. I'm on.

    https://www.betfair.com/sport/politics

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/partygate-made-conservatives-grumpy-what-23812465

    https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/staggering-amount-woking-borough-council-23066714

    https://wokinglibdems.org.uk/en/article/2021/1421356/shock-by-election-win-paves-way-for-lib-dem-gain-in-woking

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/willforster/polling_day_in_woking

    Woking is only 26th on the LD target list for the next general election, no surprise they are targeting it
    Although it might be a target in the GE, it is not being especially done so in these local elections. There are no calls for help even from boroughs without election (eg where I am and I am only 5 miles from Woking). It is and has been for many years a very tight and actively fought borough by both the Tories an LDs and with a Tory run borough who are in a minority and with financial issues it is prime territory for LD gains to take overall control. Just a tough set of circumstances for the Tories here really.
    I expect the heaviest Tory losses on Thursday to be in anti Brexit areas which most dislike Boris.

    Woking was 56% Remain, similar councils in Remain areas of the Home Counties like Guildford and South Oxfordshire have already gone LD so I would not be surprised to see the LDs take it.

    The Tories are also likely to lose Tunbridge Wells on Thursday too partly for the same reasons as well as local factors
    I agree generally, but sometimes local factors are a bigger aspect as you point out re Tunbridge Wells. That is certainly the case with Guildford. Guildford is not LD controlled. It is in coalition with Indies and the Indies made the bigger wins (some wards by huge margins eg mine). This was because of Tory scandals and the local plan. You only have to speak to Mole Valley Tories to find out about what happened to the Guildford Tories. No love lost at the time.

    Re Tunbridge Wells - I have no knowledge although I used to live in Crowborough but lost contact now. A lovely area in which I believe you used to live also.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Dura_Ace said:

    NATO has always been defensive.

    What was NATO doing running ISAF in Afghanistan from 2005 to 2021? There wasn't much chance of the Taliban crossing the Rhine.
    A good question, with a complicated answer.
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/five-myths-about-nato-and-afghanistan
  • Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    To be fair to Mad Nad, the Daily Fail chose the picture not her, she just shared the article.

    And to be fair to the Daily Heil, its not unusual for papers to use stock photos in their articles, so they've attached an image of Keir eating curry to an article about Keir eating curry - not claimed that is the image of that event.

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.
    BR Lolz pt94......
    How's it a Lolz? I despise the Daily Heil and am not a fan of Mad Nadz, as my choice of nomenclature for both of them should have made clear.

    But I'm also not a fan of Twitter lies and disinformation. News articles using stock imagery is nothing new and people misrepresenting it are just being stupid.
    So the cabinet minister responsible for media publicly attacks the leader of the opposition for something the police have already said was not a crime using a fake photo, and it is the people who point this out that are misrepresenting.......
    She didn't use a fake photo, that's been falsely cropped to imply that. She shared an article from a Daily Heil article, and the Daily Heil used a stock photo of Keir eating curry to attach to a story about . . . Keir eating curry. She referenced Keir eating curry in her text too.

    Stock photos are nothing new.
    Hmm. Tories (some) complain about stock photos of empty shelves in Brexit is shite articles. Then Tories don't complain about stock photos of SKS + curry in SKS is shite articles. Cognitive dissonance in there somewhere ....
    Oh yes this is quite comparable to stock photos of empty shelves, I wonder if anyone else had already made that connection or if its all dissonance. Oh wait ...

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.

    I made that connection myself. No dissonance here thank you. I have never (to the best of my knowledge) complained about stock imagery being used to adorn articles, although if someone were to pretend a stock image wasn't a stock image, that should be pointed out.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    edited May 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo should have hidden in a fridge again this morning

    He is to address the Ukraine Parliament this morning, the first Western leader to do so, so not hiding in a fridge
    I'm with you BigG.

    Boris must go ..then again he is the greatest Wartime Prime Minister since Churchill, and he didn't really break any Covid rules, and the Gray report must be canned because it was written by a Labour shill, and Starmer broke loads of rules whilst Boris was ambushed by a cake. Phew!
    Boris must go but he is recognised by Ukraine and their President for the support they have received in their fight against the war criminal that is Putin

    Boris broke the covid rules and there is no dispute about that

    Starmer may or may not have broken covid rules but they lied about Rayners's attendance and he looks uncomfortable when being asked questions by journalists. The media will no doubt only be satisfied when he agrees to a review and interview by Durham Police but as one voter said this morning, 'they are all the same' and that is a fairly widespread view
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    moonshine said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    I do have a question for US-based PBers. How much of the desire to chain women to the bed comes from some deranged religious conviction and how much because it upsets the liberals?

    What I struggle to comprehend is how people vote for this. Vaginas are dangerous so we read in the UK and at least some Americans have them. Why would you vote to remove your own rights? To risk bleeding to death in agony (as @Cyclefree and Mrs RP have both said this morning). To subjugate your own gender - or at least your wives and daughters?

    I do what I can to empower my daughter and to shape the world so that she can be all that she wants to be. The idea of raising her to be some man's property and saying "if you are raped it's God's will" is just crazy.

    So do they do it because they genuinely believe in the non-rights of women? Or because they have been raised to hate liberals so hard that they will remove their own rights just to do them over?

    I read someone credible, can't remember who, who said that the way to understand this is racism: people who get abortions are disproportionately black. Same with free healthcare, can't have black people being treated on my tax dollar.

    This sounds incredible but compare the war on drugs, a senior member of Nixon's government is on record as saying it was just a proxy for a war on black people
    America is becoming a more and more alien country every year it seems. To be banning women from controlling their own bodies is utterly disgusting if that comes to pass.
    I can’t remember you coming out with the same hyperbole about the UK prior to 2019. Before which time Westminster had been content to devolve the issue to Stormont, with Northern Ireland adopting a distinctly different policy to the rest of the Uk?
    You're categorically wrong, I always thought it was disgusting that it wasn't available in Northern Ireland. And I've always found Northern Ireland to be alien too.

    However women in Northern Ireland were quite easily able to go across the water and get an abortion in a civilised country like England, Scotland or Wales. They shouldn't have to, but they were able to easily. The same basic ease won't be readily available to the unfortunate people in America being denied control over their own country.
    American federalism in this instance means that while Oklahoma can vote to ban abortions, Washington State can vote to keep abortion legal under state law. And OK cannot stop women from traveling to WA. Not cost free, but not impossible. This is safety valve for anti-abortion state, as for Ireland.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,149

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    To be fair to Mad Nad, the Daily Fail chose the picture not her, she just shared the article.

    And to be fair to the Daily Heil, its not unusual for papers to use stock photos in their articles, so they've attached an image of Keir eating curry to an article about Keir eating curry - not claimed that is the image of that event.

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.
    BR Lolz pt94......
    How's it a Lolz? I despise the Daily Heil and am not a fan of Mad Nadz, as my choice of nomenclature for both of them should have made clear.

    But I'm also not a fan of Twitter lies and disinformation. News articles using stock imagery is nothing new and people misrepresenting it are just being stupid.
    So the cabinet minister responsible for media publicly attacks the leader of the opposition for something the police have already said was not a crime using a fake photo, and it is the people who point this out that are misrepresenting.......
    It could have been an elephant trap by the Mail for Dorries.

    Use an old 2019 picture, caption it "last year", and crop it so that the recognisable but now dead bloke is not on the newspaper version.

    Lesson: Easy mistake to make (remember all those fake pictures of empty shelves retweeted by which were actually from Mar 2020 not 2021) you are responsible for stuff you retweet, and people like ND with armies of minitrolls can't afford to get it even slightly wrong.

    Does the DM have a reason to dislike ND?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    To be fair to Mad Nad, the Daily Fail chose the picture not her, she just shared the article.

    And to be fair to the Daily Heil, its not unusual for papers to use stock photos in their articles, so they've attached an image of Keir eating curry to an article about Keir eating curry - not claimed that is the image of that event.

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.
    BR Lolz pt94......
    How's it a Lolz? I despise the Daily Heil and am not a fan of Mad Nadz, as my choice of nomenclature for both of them should have made clear.

    But I'm also not a fan of Twitter lies and disinformation. News articles using stock imagery is nothing new and people misrepresenting it are just being stupid.
    So the cabinet minister responsible for media publicly attacks the leader of the opposition for something the police have already said was not a crime using a fake photo, and it is the people who point this out that are misrepresenting.......
    She didn't use a fake photo, that's been falsely cropped to imply that. She shared an article from a Daily Heil article, and the Daily Heil used a stock photo of Keir eating curry to attach to a story about . . . Keir eating curry. She referenced Keir eating curry in her text too.

    Stock photos are nothing new.
    It's a cropped photo from 2015 where SKS is eating a meal with the sadly deceased Frank Dobson to reflect the fact he took over Frank's (safe) seat.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Keir ate curry is a stupid story befitting the Heil in its stupidity, but the Heil used a stock photo of Keir eating curry to attach to their stupid Keir ate a curry story is even stupider.

    What kind of idiocy is this? Have we nothing smarter to discuss, are we all to be reduced to the most petulant and pathetic discussions imaginable? Ridiculous on all sides it seems.

    Because the fons et origo of the idiocy, petulance and dishonesty is a Cabinet minister (with responsibility, incidentally, for the meejah).. Or is it your case that attaching cropped stock photos to tweets is SOP, nothing to see here, move along?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eek said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nadine LOLz part 94

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1521092894987325445

    The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was. Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

    To be fair to Mad Nad, the Daily Fail chose the picture not her, she just shared the article.

    And to be fair to the Daily Heil, its not unusual for papers to use stock photos in their articles, so they've attached an image of Keir eating curry to an article about Keir eating curry - not claimed that is the image of that event.

    As a corollary any time an article is shared about "empty shelves" due to supply issues/panic buying etc the same few stock photos get rotated and shared on Twitter like that with the news articles. Some idiots then choose to believe that photo is a real photo rather than simply a stock image.
    BR Lolz pt94......
    How's it a Lolz? I despise the Daily Heil and am not a fan of Mad Nadz, as my choice of nomenclature for both of them should have made clear.

    But I'm also not a fan of Twitter lies and disinformation. News articles using stock imagery is nothing new and people misrepresenting it are just being stupid.
    So the cabinet minister responsible for media publicly attacks the leader of the opposition for something the police have already said was not a crime using a fake photo, and it is the people who point this out that are misrepresenting.......
    She didn't use a fake photo, that's been falsely cropped to imply that. She shared an article from a Daily Heil article, and the Daily Heil used a stock photo of Keir eating curry to attach to a story about . . . Keir eating curry. She referenced Keir eating curry in her text too.

    Stock photos are nothing new.
    It's a cropped photo from 2015 where SKS is eating a meal with the sadly deceased Frank Dobson to reflect the fact he took over Frank's (safe) seat.
    Which sounds like an inaccurate precis of the Rocky Horrow Picture Show
This discussion has been closed.