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Vulnerable and quadruple jabbed yet I still got COVID – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 8 in General
imageVulnerable and quadruple jabbed yet I still got COVID – politicalbetting.com

Quite a number of PBers have been contacting me to ask how I am after reporting here during the Easter weekend that I had contracted COVID. Well it took just over a week but I am pretty much over it now. My wife still has it and remains infectious.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • CiceroCicero Posts: 1,173
    Vaccines still life savers, even if you catch the lurgy it seems. Good yiu are recovering well.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    The data shows vaccines broke the link between infection and serious illness/death. No vaccine is 100% effective. It could have been far worse without the jab. I got covid after being double jabbed.

    Glad you’re better.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 22,658
    edited May 3
    Glad your through the worst Mike.

    I'm not sure our expectations were over-stated. In fact, they were very much under-stated at the beginning of the pandemic. Indeed, that's why our experts ****** up so spectacularly.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 2,713
    I'm so glad you are over it now Mike.

    It remains a nasty virus that I would really rather not catch. This country's approach is far too lax.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    Glad to hear you’re on the mend, and I hope your wife quickly follows you in that.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 22,658
    Heathener said:

    I'm so glad you are over it now Mike.

    It remains a nasty virus that I would really rather not catch. This country's approach is far too lax.

    Anecdote time. I went to West Ham v Arsenal on Sunday, so for me that's the Jubilee Line from Waterloo to Stratford. I had to let three trains go before I could get on one.

    A couple of things. Masks have pretty much vanished. Also, I assumed there must be something on at the O2. Not many people got off at North Greenwich. They were all going to Westfield for shopping. Cost of living crisis? What crisis?
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm so glad you are over it now Mike.

    It remains a nasty virus that I would really rather not catch. This country's approach is far too lax.

    Anecdote time. I went to West Ham v Arsenal on Sunday, so for me that's the Jubilee Line from Waterloo to Stratford. I had to let three trains go before I could get on one.

    A couple of things. Masks have pretty much vanished. Also, I assumed there must be something on at the O2. Not many people got off at North Greenwich. They were all going to Westfield for shopping. Cost of living crisis? What crisis?
    Perhaps they are spending their money before inflation really erodes its value ?

    Our experience in the north east is pretty similar. It is incredibly rare you see a mask. Even on public transport. I’ve been to my GPS a couple of times recently and that is the only place I’ve wore a mask.

    COVID seems pretty much done and dusted to people. Whether that stays the case we shall see.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 2,713
    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    I'm so glad you are over it now Mike.

    It remains a nasty virus that I would really rather not catch. This country's approach is far too lax.

    Masks have pretty much vanished.
    It's madness. We should be wearing masks on public transport. A small price to pay.

    Abortion now heading for illegality in the US, Trump endorsing candidates and The Daily Mail doing everything possible to re-elect Boris, even if it means daily lies. I find myself less and less in sync with the west.

    p.s. people do their shopping just after pay day
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 2,713
    edited May 3
    Covid is not done and dusted. Daily infection rate is c. 130,000 and it continues to cause havoc in the travel sector and other industries.
    https://covid.joinzoe.com/

    Fortunately where I live lots of people still wear masks: roughly half in shops.

    I don't want to catch this as I too am vulnerable.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    Heathener said:

    Covid is not done and dusted. Daily infection rate is c. 130,000 and it continues to cause havoc in the travel sector and other industries.
    https://covid.joinzoe.com/

    Fortunately where I live lots of people still wear masks: roughly half in shops.

    I don't want to catch this as I too am vulnerable.

    I didn’t say it was done and dusted I said it seems done and dusted to people.

    Which it does. Life is pretty much like it was pre covid.

    We have to learn to live with it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,698
    Here in LA, mask wearing falls into two categories:

    - wear them all the time, including while outside and when no-one else is near (15% of people)
    - never where them, even if in an incredibly poorly ventilated place with lots of people (83% of people)

    And then there are 2% of people (inluding... errr.. me...) who will wear one when it seems higher risk, and will not the rest of the time.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261
    rcs1000 said:

    Here in LA, mask wearing falls into two categories:

    - wear them all the time, including while outside and when no-one else is near (15% of people)
    - never where them, even if in an incredibly poorly ventilated place with lots of people (83% of people)

    And then there are 2% of people (inluding... errr.. me...) who will wear one when it seems higher risk, and will not the rest of the time.

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 27,713
    Good morning, one and all. Glad OGH is feeling better.
    Very few masks in the streets of our small town. Still restrictions in health related premises, though; pharmacy has restrictions, when one phones the surgery one is told not to actually come unless one has an appointment. Not sure about the dentist, but I'll find out next week!
    Quite a lot (for us) of people visited our little museum yesterday, though. Maskless.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,044
    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Here in LA, mask wearing falls into two categories:

    - wear them all the time, including while outside and when no-one else is near (15% of people)
    - never where them, even if in an incredibly poorly ventilated place with lots of people (83% of people)

    And then there are 2% of people (inluding... errr.. me...) who will wear one when it seems higher risk, and will not the rest of the time.

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.
    Italy just ended their mandate on masks. Pretty much sharp drop off in mask wearing rates although, as in LA, a minority who look to wear them outside
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,698
    edited May 3
    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Here in LA, mask wearing falls into two categories:

    - wear them all the time, including while outside and when no-one else is near (15% of people)
    - never where them, even if in an incredibly poorly ventilated place with lots of people (83% of people)

    And then there are 2% of people (inluding... errr.. me...) who will wear one when it seems higher risk, and will not the rest of the time.

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.
    I was in Koreatown (a district of LA known for its.. err.. Korean population), and was staggered to see 30-40% of people walking on the sidewalk* were wearing masks.

    Guys:
    (a) it's sunny, and sunlight kills Covid
    (b) it's Los Angeles! You'll next pass another pedestrian on Thursday.

    There is basically zero chance any of these people will catch Covid. Outdoor. In LA.

    * Pavement, damn it
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,044
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Here in LA, mask wearing falls into two categories:

    - wear them all the time, including while outside and when no-one else is near (15% of people)
    - never where them, even if in an incredibly poorly ventilated place with lots of people (83% of people)

    And then there are 2% of people (inluding... errr.. me...) who will wear one when it seems higher risk, and will not the rest of the time.

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.
    I was in Koreatown (a district of LA known for its.. err.. Korean population), and was staggered to see 30-40% of people walking on the sidewalk* were wearing masks.

    Guys:
    (a) it's sunny, and sunlight kills Covid
    (b) it's Los Angeles! You'll next pass another pedestrian on Thursday.

    There is basically zero chance any of these people will catch Covid. Outdoor. In LA.

    * Pavement, damn it
    But it is Koreatown, I always remember quite a few wearing masks pre-COVID
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,142
    edited May 3
    rcs1000 said:

    Here in LA, mask wearing falls into two categories:

    - wear them all the time, including while outside and when no-one else is near (15% of people)
    - never where them, even if in an incredibly poorly ventilated place with lots of people (83% of people)

    And then there are 2% of people (inluding... errr.. me...) who will wear one when it seems higher risk, and will not the rest of the time.

    Still have to wear masks inside over here, which is a little annoying as the cases have dropped to almost nothing (2 per 100,000 per day), but they have dropped all the capacity limits on venues, so it’s otherwise back to normal. Mask wearing outside was compulsory until February.

    Glad you’re recovering Mike, and hope your wife recovers soon. Three cheers for the vaccines, that have managed to turn something deadly into something manageable.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,195
    rcs1000 said:


    * Pavement, damn it

    Sidewalk is more accurate.

    Pavement is the stuff the sidewalk is made of
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,698
    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    You don't have to be a genius to see that the right to privacy does not guarantee abortions...

    On the other hand, I can't help feel this is may be a Pyrrhic victory, creating far more Democrat voters in November than would otherwise be the case.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464
    Heathener said:

    Covid is not done and dusted. Daily infection rate is c. 130,000 and it continues to cause havoc in the travel sector and other industries.
    https://covid.joinzoe.com/

    Fortunately where I live lots of people still wear masks: roughly half in shops.

    I don't want to catch this as I too am vulnerable.

    It is rare to see masks here and to be honest the vast majority recognise covid is something we have to live with and fortunately the vaccines have been a success

    If you want to wear a mask then that is your choice and talking of being vulnerable I am extremely vulnerable due to my age and health conditions but I am not paranoid about it
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 44,698
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Here in LA, mask wearing falls into two categories:

    - wear them all the time, including while outside and when no-one else is near (15% of people)
    - never where them, even if in an incredibly poorly ventilated place with lots of people (83% of people)

    And then there are 2% of people (inluding... errr.. me...) who will wear one when it seems higher risk, and will not the rest of the time.

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.
    I was in Koreatown (a district of LA known for its.. err.. Korean population), and was staggered to see 30-40% of people walking on the sidewalk* were wearing masks.

    Guys:
    (a) it's sunny, and sunlight kills Covid
    (b) it's Los Angeles! You'll next pass another pedestrian on Thursday.

    There is basically zero chance any of these people will catch Covid. Outdoor. In LA.

    * Pavement, damn it
    But it is Koreatown, I always remember quite a few wearing masks pre-COVID
    I'm afraid I wasn't going to the same clubs as you :smiley:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 47,939
    felix said:

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.

    @IshmaelZ you and I should take a trip to Spain to check this out...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,467
    People have collectively paid around £227,000,000 ($285,000,000) in cryptocurrency for land that does not physically exist. https://t.co/oO0vavwzGO
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745
    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    Blessed be the fruit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,467
    Still masks at work for me, but very few wearing them elsewhere near me.

    Numbers in my hospital have plummeted. On Friday we had 70, it weas 450 about 6 weeks ago.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745
    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Voters should be able to decide all things in a democracy. The problem is the US electoral system, which barely functions as a democracy any more. If they overturn this we know what happens. States not only ban abortion but ban women from leaving the state for abortion. This is the start of something very nasty that isn't remotely democratic.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.

    @IshmaelZ you and I should take a trip to Spain to check this out...
    NB - I live in a fairly low population rural and conservative area - especially before the tourists arrive in numbers.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261
    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 47,939
    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.

    @IshmaelZ you and I should take a trip to Spain to check this out...
    NB - I live in a fairly low population rural and conservative area - especially before the tourists arrive in numbers.
    So the tourists get the key benefit of this punlic transport? That's fine.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745
    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    He thought he was in Scotland.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 27,713
    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    According the Guardian (well, you wouldn't expect that to be positive about him) he was in Whitley Bay, N Tyneside but thought he was on Teeside!
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    He thought he was in Scotland.
    I have no idea what that is meant to mean.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.

    @IshmaelZ you and I should take a trip to Spain to check this out...
    NB - I live in a fairly low population rural and conservative area - especially before the tourists arrive in numbers.
    So the tourists get the key benefit of this punlic transport? That's fine.
    Ok - public. Whatever.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    According the Guardian (well, you wouldn't expect that to be positive about him) he was in Whitley Bay, N Tyneside but thought he was on Teeside!
    It is funny to see the typo capital of newpapers obsessing about gegorafy!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,334
    This is quite a claim, if true:

    "NSDC Secretary Oleksiy Danilov said that Russian President Vladimir Putin shared his plans to launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine with Hungarian authorities."

    https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1521224095848927233

    Although sadly it makes some sense. Hungary is covetously eyeing up some of Ukraine's territory. If true, how long before we start asking whether Hungary should remain in the EU and NATO?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 22,658

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    According the Guardian (well, you wouldn't expect that to be positive about him) he was in Whitley Bay, N Tyneside but thought he was on Teeside!
    Didn’t IDS visit the Nissan factory and say how good it was to see New Astor doing well in Europe? Didn’t go down well with the Mackems!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    It wasn't particularly controversial when enacted - by Republican as well as Democrat appointees, so 'imposition' is a stretch.
    And it has been settled law for half a century.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    You don't have to be a genius to see that the right to privacy does not guarantee abortions... .
    But being male helps.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 27,713
    felix said:

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    According the Guardian (well, you wouldn't expect that to be positive about him) he was in Whitley Bay, N Tyneside but thought he was on Teeside!
    It is funny to see the typo capital of newpapers obsessing about gegorafy!
    Usually gets it's facts such as where the PM actually is right though, even if it's spelling was* somewhat erratic at times.
    *was..... seems better lately.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745
    felix said:

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    He thought he was in Scotland.
    I have no idea what that is meant to mean.
    He was in Tyneside and thought he was on Teesside. So Sunderland, Scotland, whats the difference? With a few days to go before the election they couldn't have found a better way to tell the red wall they don't know or care who they are.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 8,015

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Voters should be able to decide all things in a democracy. The problem is the US electoral system, which barely functions as a democracy any more. If they overturn this we know what happens. States not only ban abortion but ban women from leaving the state for abortion. This is the start of something very nasty that isn't remotely democratic.
    The Handmaid's Tale is starting to look like a documentary.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745
    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    It wasn't particularly controversial when enacted - by Republican as well as Democrat appointees, so 'imposition' is a stretch.
    And it has been settled law for half a century.
    As they said they want to go back to traditional law. Like slavery and women as property. May the Lord open.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464
    Kay Burley seems to have the bit between her teeth over beergate (currygate) this morning
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,409
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. NorthWales, she's annoyed she wasn't invited?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,104
    Nigelb said:

    Glad to hear you’re on the mend, and I hope your wife quickly follows you in that.

    Very much seconded.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596

    You can’t ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. The US Supreme Court has decided women’s lives don’t matter.

    The granting of a right to safe abortions was apparently an imposition.
    Can't get my head around that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,478
    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:


    * Pavement, damn it

    Sidewalk is more accurate.

    Pavement is the stuff the sidewalk is made of
    bollocks you halfwit
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464
    edited May 3
    Nigelb said:

    You can’t ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. The US Supreme Court has decided women’s lives don’t matter.

    The granting of a right to safe abortions was apparently an imposition.
    Can't get my head around that.
    What on earth is happening to the US
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,054

    Nigelb said:

    You can’t ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. The US Supreme Court has decided women’s lives don’t matter.

    The granting of a right to safe abortions was apparently an imposition.
    Can't get my head around that.
    What on earth is happening to the US
    Trump happened - and appointed 3 members of the Supreme Court.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464

    Nigelb said:

    You can’t ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. The US Supreme Court has decided women’s lives don’t matter.

    The granting of a right to safe abortions was apparently an imposition.
    Can't get my head around that.
    What on earth is happening to the US
    Trump happened - and appointed 3 members of the Supreme Court.
    And some think he may win the presidency again
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745

    Nigelb said:

    You can’t ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. The US Supreme Court has decided women’s lives don’t matter.

    The granting of a right to safe abortions was apparently an imposition.
    Can't get my head around that.
    What on earth is happening to the US
    Its gone mental. But we could have asked the same question of any great country or empire that goes rapidly downhill. America is so much worse than its neighbours on pretty much every metric there is, yet propagandises the population that they are living the American dream and everyone wants to be them.

    Here's the brutal truth about this abortion thing. The hard right wing of the Republican Party are obsessed about life right up until the point of birth. Then it flips the other way and they do everything they can to deny the person decent education, healthcare, rights, jobs. Its as if they want a nation of drones to be born for them to profit from...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.

    @IshmaelZ you and I should take a trip to Spain to check this out...
    NB - I live in a fairly low population rural and conservative area - especially before the tourists arrive in numbers.
    So the tourists get the key benefit of this punlic transport? That's fine.
    You would surely qualify for free travel on such a service.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    He was also in Hartlepool earlier.

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    According the Guardian (well, you wouldn't expect that to be positive about him) he was in Whitley Bay, N Tyneside but thought he was on Teeside!
    He was in Hartlepool earlier in the day talking about Nuclear Power.

    I’d trust the guardian as much as I’d trust the Mail.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:


    * Pavement, damn it

    Sidewalk is more accurate.

    Pavement is the stuff the sidewalk is made of
    bollocks you halfwit
    Morning Malc, hope all is well with you and yours.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,104
    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    "dictated from above".

    Well now - isn't that always the case when you have rights embodied in a constitution? That there are some rights which are inalienable and inherent in the very fact of being human which cannot be taken away by any vote.

    If a democratic vote is the only and final determining factor, then presumably it would be ok - if voters chose this - to deprive women of the vote or black people or to make homosexuality illegal or to make it illegal to vote for a particular political party etc.

    There is always a tension between democracy and the idea of fundamental rights. But the argument that only those rights granted on the basis of popular support are valid is wrong and dangerous. After all, there are plenty of examples of really quite vile policies and deprivation of rights being very popular indeed.

    As for the "rooted in history" argument, this is so much baloney. The right to vote has not been rooted in history. It is quite a relatively recent innovation. The right to own slaves OTOH goes back to time immemorial. The legal reasoning in Roe v Wade may not be up to much but if this is what replaces it, it does not seem to be an improvement.

    What is also worrying, if the reports are to be believed, is the attack on two cases which advanced gay rights. Attack the Voting Rights Act which made sure black people were not denied the vote. Then women. Then gay people.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,526

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Voters should be able to decide all things in a democracy. The problem is the US electoral system, which barely functions as a democracy any more. If they overturn this we know what happens. States not only ban abortion but ban women from leaving the state for abortion. This is the start of something very nasty that isn't remotely democratic.
    Federal Abortion Clinics. If Democrats handle this right then access to abortion could be better for women in Republican states then it is now.
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787

    Kay Burley seems to have the bit between her teeth over beergate (currygate) this morning

    Labour have done such a poor job closing this down.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,582
    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    It was settled law at the time the question was asked…
  • theProletheProle Posts: 638

    You can’t ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. The US Supreme Court has decided women’s lives don’t matter.

    You can only ban legal murder - illegal murder still happens. Same with speeding or bank robbery. If you can't make laws because a small minority won't observe them, you rapidly end up with anarchy.

    Despite all this hissing and clucking over this particular issue, the available evidence is that modern democracies where abortion is banned (eg Ireland until recently) have very low rates of illegal abortion, and almost zero resultant maternal deaths.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596
    edited May 3
    Cyclefree said:

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    "dictated from above".

    Well now - isn't that always the case when you have rights embodied in a constitution? That there are some rights which are inalienable and inherent in the very fact of being human which cannot be taken away by any vote.

    If a democratic vote is the only and final determining factor, then presumably it would be ok - if voters chose this - to deprive women of the vote or black people or to make homosexuality illegal or to make it illegal to vote for a particular political party etc.

    There is always a tension between democracy and the idea of fundamental rights. But the argument that only those rights granted on the basis of popular support are valid is wrong and dangerous. After all, there are plenty of examples of really quite vile policies and deprivation of rights being very popular indeed.

    As for the "rooted in history" argument, this is so much baloney. The right to vote has not been rooted in history. It is quite a relatively recent innovation. The right to own slaves OTOH goes back to time immemorial. The legal reasoning in Roe v Wade may not be up to much but if this is what replaces it, it does not seem to be an improvement.

    What is also worrying, if the reports are to be believed, is the attack on two cases which advanced gay rights. Attack the Voting Rights Act which made sure black people were not denied the vote. Then women. Then gay people.
    You don't have to believe the reports - it is in the text of the leaked majority decision.
    If that is a fake - and no one has claimed it is - it's an extraordinarily detailed and convincing one.

    "Rooted in history" has no real legal basis either - it's just a preference of a particular justice to recognise only the rights which were thought important a couple of centuries back.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,104
    edited May 3

    You can’t ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. The US Supreme Court has decided women’s lives don’t matter.

    Yup - it is a charter for rapists who can not only rape women but force them to carry that child to term. Of course, the pro lifers will do nothing at all to help the children thus born or their mothers. As for women with an ectopic pregnancy, they face the very real prospect of bleeding to death.

    I would like to understand the legal basis for saying that the US government cannot mandate the wearing of a mask to prevent harm to others but can mandate that a woman must give birth against her wishes and despite any risks to her health.

    Let's hope that this is not the final decision.

    And @SouthamObserver we only need to look at our own country's politics to see that womens' lives and rights don't matter, not as much as they should and certainly not as much as mens.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,582
    rcs1000 said:

    Here in LA, mask wearing falls into two categories:

    - wear them all the time, including while outside and when no-one else is near (15% of people)
    - never where them, even if in an incredibly poorly ventilated place with lots of people (83% of people)

    And then there are 2% of people (inluding... errr.. me...) who will wear one when it seems higher risk, and will not the rest of the time.

    I got slightly irritated having to put one on at JFK as I disembarked from a week of flying around the States without a mask
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 38,142

    Kay Burley seems to have the bit between her teeth over beergate (currygate) this morning

    What she doesn’t know about parties, isn’t worth knowing.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 5,661

    Nigelb said:

    You can’t ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. The US Supreme Court has decided women’s lives don’t matter.

    The granting of a right to safe abortions was apparently an imposition.
    Can't get my head around that.
    What on earth is happening to the US
    Trump happened - and appointed 3 members of the Supreme Court.
    This is much bigger than Trump, though. Look at the Republican governors who have already done all they can to make abortions nearly impossible to access.

    It's been a few decades since the Republicans worked out that they could flip a significant block of votes based on this issue.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,558
    Three justices appointed by a President who got three million votes less than his opponent are going to pose so many long-term challenges to what remains of the US’s democracy over the coming decades.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,579

    Kay Burley seems to have the bit between her teeth over beergate (currygate) this morning

    Well that's because Kay followed the rules to the letter. No wonder she is annoyed that there are question marks over other people's behaviour.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 3,943
    Why on earth do people in the uk get so worked up about whether voters in Arkansas and New York get to decide on abortion rights rather than a constitutional court? Who bloody cares? I can’t remember there being a particularly vocal lobby about the issue in Northern Ireland and that was in your own country!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 21,195
    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    He was lost

    Care about the North East? He doesn't even know where he is.

    Bring a map to your next photo op @BorisJohnson.
    https://twitter.com/LabourNorth/status/1521216686535450628/photo/1


  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    Sandpit said:

    Kay Burley seems to have the bit between her teeth over beergate (currygate) this morning

    What she doesn’t know about parties, isn’t worth knowing.
    Morning Sandpit. How are your wife’s family bearing Up ?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,582
    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Yes. Radio 4 was saying 26!states would ban/restrict abortion as a result - more than half of the US.

    If the voters in those states want to elect representatives who will do that why shouldn’t they be permitted to do so?

    The UK has no real understanding of proper federalism
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
    Scott_xP said:

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    He was lost

    Care about the North East? He doesn't even know where he is.

    Bring a map to your next photo op @BorisJohnson.
    https://twitter.com/LabourNorth/status/1521216686535450628/photo/1


    Ironic given labour have taken the north east for granted for many years and didn’t give a fuck about it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 51,464
    Taz said:

    Kay Burley seems to have the bit between her teeth over beergate (currygate) this morning

    Labour have done such a poor job closing this down.
    Tamara Cohen on 'her take' on Sky in discussion with Kay Burley says beergate is a growing problem for labour with inconsistencies emerging and Starmer is continuing to get questions about it with Durham Police being urged to undertake a proper investigation
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,582
    Foxy said:

    People have collectively paid around £227,000,000 ($285,000,000) in cryptocurrency for land that does not physically exist. https://t.co/oO0vavwzGO

    Surely this has to be money laundering or market abuse? There can be no rational reason for this…
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    In Spain restrictions lifted but a lot wear them still in shops and at work. They remain compulsory on punlic transport and in all health facilities including chemists.

    @IshmaelZ you and I should take a trip to Spain to check this out...
    Ha!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Voters should be able to decide all things in a democracy. The problem is the US electoral system, which barely functions as a democracy any more. If they overturn this we know what happens. States not only ban abortion but ban women from leaving the state for abortion. This is the start of something very nasty that isn't remotely democratic.
    Federal Abortion Clinics. If Democrats handle this right then access to abortion could be better for women in Republican states then it is now.
    Wouldn't get through the Senate. And the current Court would rule it unconstitutional even if it did.
    But it's a possible campaign idea I suppose.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,261
    Scott_xP said:

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    He was lost

    Care about the North East? He doesn't even know where he is.

    Bring a map to your next photo op @BorisJohnson.
    https://twitter.com/LabourNorth/status/1521216686535450628/photo/1


    So easy to trigger.... :)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 1,582

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Voters should be able to decide all things in a democracy. The problem is the US electoral system, which barely functions as a democracy any more. If they overturn this we know what happens. States not only ban abortion but ban women from leaving the state for abortion. This is the start of something very nasty that isn't remotely democratic.
    I think the feds could prevent states from banning women leaving for abortion. (I’d go with regulation of interstate commerce, but that might not be emotive enough for the headlines)
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745
    I do have a question for US-based PBers. How much of the desire to chain women to the bed comes from some deranged religious conviction and how much because it upsets the liberals?

    What I struggle to comprehend is how people vote for this. Vaginas are dangerous so we read in the UK and at least some Americans have them. Why would you vote to remove your own rights? To risk bleeding to death in agony (as @Cyclefree and Mrs RP have both said this morning). To subjugate your own gender - or at least your wives and daughters?

    I do what I can to empower my daughter and to shape the world so that she can be all that she wants to be. The idea of raising her to be some man's property and saying "if you are raped it's God's will" is just crazy.

    So do they do it because they genuinely believe in the non-rights of women? Or because they have been raised to hate liberals so hard that they will remove their own rights just to do them over?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    It was settled law at the time the question was asked…
    So the justices aren't actual perjurers, just dissembling politicians ?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 5,661

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Yes. Radio 4 was saying 26!states would ban/restrict abortion as a result - more than half of the US.

    If the voters in those states want to elect representatives who will do that why shouldn’t they be permitted to do so?

    The UK has no real understanding of proper federalism
    Though I guess those 26 states will include all the tiny-by-population flyover states where the Republicans dominate. So less than half the country really.

    And the democracy/states rights thing is tricky, as I'm sure you know really. Some things that could get 50% + 1 vote just aren't on. Especially when it's a majority being unpleasant to an outcaste minority.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,104

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Yes. Radio 4 was saying 26!states would ban/restrict abortion as a result - more than half of the US.

    If the voters in those states want to elect representatives who will do that why shouldn’t they be permitted to do so?

    The UK has no real understanding of proper federalism
    If the voters in those states want to elect representatives who will deny lack people the vote why shouldn't they be permitted to do so?

    After all, using the reasoning in the leaked decision, blacks having the right to vote is hardly rooted in history in the US. Why is that not as much of a "phony right" as the other rights criticised by this draft judgment?

    And if they should not be permitted to do so, on what basis do you say this?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Yes. Radio 4 was saying 26!states would ban/restrict abortion as a result - more than half of the US.

    If the voters in those states want to elect representatives who will do that why shouldn’t they be permitted to do so?

    The UK has no real understanding of proper federalism
    If voters in those states want to elect representatives who will bring back slavery shouldn't they be permitted to do so? How about stoning gays? Or making women the property of their menfolk?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    He was lost

    Care about the North East? He doesn't even know where he is.

    Bring a map to your next photo op @BorisJohnson.
    https://twitter.com/LabourNorth/status/1521216686535450628/photo/1


    Ironic given labour have taken the north east for granted for many years and didn’t give a fuck about it.
    It is! And having managed to steal the NE away from Labour the Tories can't find enough ways to hand it back quickly. The Tyneside / Teesside thing has not gone down well. I also saw some ironic humour from hangers that the real surprise in Boris's visit to Hartlepool was a rare sighting of their MP.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 1,453
    Given where the US seems to be headed politically we’d better hope the whole Ukraine and Russia thing gets wrapped up before 2024.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,104
    O/T - I never knew such a thing existed - a tulipiere. And now I really want one.

    Sigh ..... https://twitter.com/advollyr/status/1520747025981231105?s=21&t=ZOlqwlFpfvSLznps6m_S0A
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 31,467

    Foxy said:

    People have collectively paid around £227,000,000 ($285,000,000) in cryptocurrency for land that does not physically exist. https://t.co/oO0vavwzGO

    Surely this has to be money laundering or market abuse? There can be no rational reason for this…
    At least with tulip bulbs you have flowers every Spring!
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    He was lost

    Care about the North East? He doesn't even know where he is.

    Bring a map to your next photo op @BorisJohnson.
    https://twitter.com/LabourNorth/status/1521216686535450628/photo/1


    Ironic given labour have taken the north east for granted for many years and didn’t give a fuck about it.
    It is! And having managed to steal the NE away from Labour the Tories can't find enough ways to hand it back quickly. The Tyneside / Teesside thing has not gone down well. I also saw some ironic humour from hangers that the real surprise in Boris's visit to Hartlepool was a rare sighting of their MP.
    I know. I’m on the same page as you. It beggars belief.

    Although I cannot say I have seen or heard of anyone too bothered, outside political circles, on the Tyneside/Teesside thing.

    It’s not like when IDS went to Nissan and praised Newcastle United.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 38,596

    Three justices appointed by a President who got three million votes less than his opponent are going to pose so many long-term challenges to what remains of the US’s democracy over the coming decades.

    Note that two of them, along with Roberts, were on the team that argued Bush v Gore.
    And Bush, of course, appointed Alito.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745

    Taz said:

    Kay Burley seems to have the bit between her teeth over beergate (currygate) this morning

    Labour have done such a poor job closing this down.
    Tamara Cohen on 'her take' on Sky in discussion with Kay Burley says beergate is a growing problem for labour with inconsistencies emerging and Starmer is continuing to get questions about it with Durham Police being urged to undertake a proper investigation
    Expect all of this to be rapidly dropped on Friday morning. The glorious combination of (a) there's no evidence and (b) they're just trying to shore up Tory votes will see the press move rapidly onto the next subject. Which as we know will be the Met issuing actual fines for actual law breaking by the Big Dog.

    We can pretty much predict that a few lone voices will try to deflect these - we can't pass judgement on Boris being fined by the police until the other police conduct a new investigation and fine Starmer. But nobody will care by then. The din of the people demanding the crook be removed from office will be deafening.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,526
    theProle said:

    You can’t ban abortions. You can only ban safe abortions. The US Supreme Court has decided women’s lives don’t matter.

    You can only ban legal murder - illegal murder still happens. Same with speeding or bank robbery. If you can't make laws because a small minority won't observe them, you rapidly end up with anarchy.

    Despite all this hissing and clucking over this particular issue, the available evidence is that modern democracies where abortion is banned (eg Ireland until recently) have very low rates of illegal abortion, and almost zero resultant maternal deaths.
    One reason why there were low rates of illegal abortion in Ireland, was that it was relatively easy for Irish women to travel to Britain for an abortion. There are Republican states in the US from which it will be a lot harder to travel to Democrat states to access abortion services
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049

    I do have a question for US-based PBers. How much of the desire to chain women to the bed comes from some deranged religious conviction and how much because it upsets the liberals?

    What I struggle to comprehend is how people vote for this. Vaginas are dangerous so we read in the UK and at least some Americans have them. Why would you vote to remove your own rights? To risk bleeding to death in agony (as @Cyclefree and Mrs RP have both said this morning). To subjugate your own gender - or at least your wives and daughters?

    I do what I can to empower my daughter and to shape the world so that she can be all that she wants to be. The idea of raising her to be some man's property and saying "if you are raped it's God's will" is just crazy.

    So do they do it because they genuinely believe in the non-rights of women? Or because they have been raised to hate liberals so hard that they will remove their own rights just to do them over?

    I read someone credible, can't remember who, who said that the way to understand this is racism: people who get abortions are disproportionately black. Same with free healthcare, can't have black people being treated on my tax dollar.

    This sounds incredible but compare the war on drugs, a senior member of Nixon's government is on record as saying it was just a proxy for a war on black people
  • TazTaz Posts: 4,787
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 3,530
    Heathener said:

    Covid is not done and dusted. Daily infection rate is c. 130,000 and it continues to cause havoc in the travel sector and other industries.
    https://covid.joinzoe.com/

    Fortunately where I live lots of people still wear masks: roughly half in shops.

    I don't want to catch this as I too am vulnerable.

    Covid is absolutely as done and dusted as its going to get, now its just any other virus.

    Whether you personally want to catch it or not is neither here nor there, unless you lock yourself at home and never leave it for the rest of your life the chances are you're going to catch it.

    In Mike's case the vaccine worked, it did its job. Preventing "cases" isn't the purpose of the vaccine, preventing hospitalisation and death is. I'm glad that Mike is OK and that the vaccine did its job for him. 💉👍

    Heathener, it is utterly unreasonable for you to expect restrictions on other people's liberties including masks, in order to prevent a spread of a virus that is going to spread anyway and which everyone vulnerable has already been offered four vaccines for.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 7,967
    rcs1000 said:

    Here in LA, mask wearing falls into two categories:

    - wear them all the time, including while outside and when no-one else is near (15% of people)
    - never where them, even if in an incredibly poorly ventilated place with lots of people (83% of people)

    And then there are 2% of people (inluding... errr.. me...) who will wear one when it seems higher risk, and will not the rest of the time.

    First, thank you Mike for your report, we have been collectively & individually concerned about your condition. Sorry that you & yours have been having it so rough. And very glad you're feeling better!

    As per observation in from Smithson the Younger in El Lay, here in Seattle % of people taking the Middle Way with masking is higher than 2%, at least in my very Woke neighborhood. In local big grocery store, would guess maybe 35%-40% still masked. Higher in smaller shops particularly where staff is masked. For me, and many others, feeling of solidarity with owners & workers of these places is part of the equation.

    My personal practice is similar to RCS perhaps slightly more as I am a) approaching OGH's age cohort with several risk factors; and b) kind of guy who wears belt AND suspenders (actually visa versa).
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 16,049

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:

    So much for the recent additions to the Supreme Court having stated under oath that they regarded Roe v Wade as settled law during the confirmations.

    US politics is going to get even uglier.

    My view on this is the same as @rcs1000 namely abortion should be legal but the voters need to decide it, not the courts. Much of the reason why the debate has been so poisonous is the view it was dictated from above - and I’d have the same view is the Supreme Court imposed a law favouring to conservatives.

    Re Roe v Wade, it has been widely seen as a poor (in terms of legal reasoning) judgement. Even Ginsburg recognised that.
    Yes. Radio 4 was saying 26!states would ban/restrict abortion as a result - more than half of the US.

    If the voters in those states want to elect representatives who will do that why shouldn’t they be permitted to do so?

    The UK has no real understanding of proper federalism
    26! Is way over half the US.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 17,745
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    felix said:

    OT - I noticed with some surprise that Boris was campaigning very visibly in Sunderland yesterday - and area which still has all 3 Labour MPs. Probably means nothing but....

    He was lost

    Care about the North East? He doesn't even know where he is.

    Bring a map to your next photo op @BorisJohnson.
    https://twitter.com/LabourNorth/status/1521216686535450628/photo/1


    Ironic given labour have taken the north east for granted for many years and didn’t give a fuck about it.
    It is! And having managed to steal the NE away from Labour the Tories can't find enough ways to hand it back quickly. The Tyneside / Teesside thing has not gone down well. I also saw some ironic humour from hangers that the real surprise in Boris's visit to Hartlepool was a rare sighting of their MP.
    I know. I’m on the same page as you. It beggars belief.

    Although I cannot say I have seen or heard of anyone too bothered, outside political circles, on the Tyneside/Teesside thing.

    It’s not like when IDS went to Nissan and praised Newcastle United.
    The dirty truth is that plenty of people working at Nissan support Newcastle because they are from there. So less of a fuss. But the Tyne / Tees thing? Have seen a lot of stuff on social media. Remember the Tories have taken over from Labour saying "you can trust us to improve your area finally". Not knowing where that area is probably doesn't help.
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