Sir Michael Take CBE @MichaelTakeMP · 10h My ❤️goes out to #neilparish Many of us in the farming community innocently tap into our phones rural topics of interest such as: Milking, Stallion, Hoes, Waxed Jackets etc. We are then greeted with filth aimed at our loins. Neil was ambushed by such filth & has now sadly gone.😞
Sir Michael Take CBE @MichaelTakeMP · 10h My ❤️goes out to #neilparish Many of us in the farming community innocently tap into our phones rural topics of interest such as: Milking, Stallion, Hoes, Waxed Jackets etc. We are then greeted with filth aimed at our loins. Neil was ambushed by such filth & has now sadly gone.😞
Are people still being taken in by good old Mick Take?
A computer created this non-existent photo of a non-existent muddy dog
Now, imagine the chaos when this AI is let loose on human faces and bodies. Because it will happen, despite all the precautions taken. This tech is too powerful to be stopped
So you could type in the prompt:
“A realistic photo of Keir Starmer gorging on caviar and cocaine in a Labour Party office, during lockdown”
Or
“A realistic photo of a naked Boris Johnson being masturbated in the Cabinet Office by three naked ballet dancers on a tractor”
Or much much worse
This is going to cause unbelievable chaos. Truth is over. Art is imperilled
You've been able to mock up such images with software like Photoshop for decades. Why no such chaos hitherto?
No. This is in a different universe to Photoshop. You don’t understand
What is unique about Dalle is that it creates from words. But don't underestimate the similarities at the image processing level between the two. When you do a "smart erase" in Photoshop, and it "invents" what you see behind the image you remove, it's using a very similar neutral net.
People invest extra magic in the image generation which, as you say, is well worn (e.g. we've been using "this face does not exist" tech for quite a while for persona generation)
And the text interpretation is also not that sophisticated (and look what a bad job it does until a human curates its output...)
Yes, it has a powerful impact, but *only* when its workings are not well understood, and when it is well curated by humans.
On the curation, that's very true. We don't get to see the 90% of generated stuff that isn't interesting.
Yes we do. Dig a little deeper. Check this illuminating thread
“DALL-E is crazy impressive.
But I’m getting a feel for what it can and can’t do, and there are some quite noticeable limitations you won’t see on the curated publicised examples (including my own).
It is clearly far from perfect. As are human artists. However some of these limitations are built-in - anything to do with human faces, body parts, etc
Imagine DALL-E 3 or 4 with these shackles removed…
I like all the fails, especially the shopping trolleys and the mother and child but not so much the kitten. Now that we know it can produce indistinguishable-from-human art why limit it to that?
BTW a prediction, the likes of banksy and tracey Emin will when they get access to it produce art which will sell for squillions where their only input is the instruction.
Also, remember, this is "indistinguishable from human once it has been displayed on a flat 2d digital display".
Go and look at any of this art in the flesh and it becomes a thousand times more subtle, textured, and interesting as the light reflects off brush strokes as you move around it.
V. true. Happened to me loads, the strongest reaction I had was seeing Constable (an artist I’d always ranked behind Turner) watercolours in the Philly Museum of Art, the colours absolutely ZINGED off the paper and the confident exuberance of the brush strokes blew me away. Not to get too metaphysical but I think you can momentarily feel a connection with the human that made these things.
I agree about the connection, too. I get that holding stone tools. You can turn them in your hands and know that someone 5k years ago did the same, and you are the first person to do that since they dropped it.
I heard a story years ago at a booksigning for a book on archaeology that back in the 80s/90s there was a lot of argument about what a lot of stone age tools were actually for. An archaeologist doing his PhD (I think at Boxgrove) was the son of a master butcher. As part of his PhD, he laid out an array of genuine Stone Age tools and a half-carcass of an ox, and asked his father to get stuck in. His father looked at the tools, went 'oh, that's what I need to do the first bit', picked up whatever it was, and got on with it. A short while later, he had a fully butchered carcass, including taking off the skin, cracking bones for marrow, etc., and the archaeologists knew what everything was. The butcher asked if he could have the tools, because they were the best he'd ever used. Apparently, somewhere there is a video of the whole process.
If you go and look at the Time Team channel on YouTube they've just put up a new old episode (from S18) that covers basic napping techniques, and you can see a blade and a scraper - the two essential tools that basically do everything.
Sir Michael Take CBE @MichaelTakeMP · 10h My ❤️goes out to #neilparish Many of us in the farming community innocently tap into our phones rural topics of interest such as: Milking, Stallion, Hoes, Waxed Jackets etc. We are then greeted with filth aimed at our loins. Neil was ambushed by such filth & has now sadly gone.😞
Sir Michael Take CBE @MichaelTakeMP · 10h My ❤️goes out to #neilparish Many of us in the farming community innocently tap into our phones rural topics of interest such as: Milking, Stallion, Hoes, Waxed Jackets etc. We are then greeted with filth aimed at our loins. Neil was ambushed by such filth & has now sadly gone.😞
Are people still being taken in by good old Mick Take?
Like Jonathan Pie and Rosie Holt, the act was interesting at first but is now tedious.
I read that quite a large number of migrants crossed the Channel today, after zero crossings this week (due, of course, to the triumph of the Rwandan policy). So how do we explain these crossings today? Is it because a) the Rwandan threat has begun to wane, or b) the wind direction has finally shifted from north-east to south-west? My money's strongly on b).
I agree. 250 crossed today, according to the Mail
So this is it. Patel’s test. She needs to fly quite a few people to Rwanda to deter others, unless of course her plan was all bluster…
If she fails, and they keep coming, I suggest her career is over. She can’t dodge the issue any more
Yep. One way ticket to Rwanda please. For the lot. It's the kindest thing to prevent future hordes of dinghys. It is a Benthamite policy.
“Notwithstanding Rwanda’s history, the world must be under no illusion as to the truth. Rwanda is hostage to the Kagame dictatorship and is more akin to a detention camp than a state where the people are sovereign.” Theogene Rudasingwa, Rwanda ambassador to USA 1996-9
If the whole place is like a detention camp, guess what sort of treatment displaced foreigners in actual detention camps can expect?
That doesn't invalidate your point of course, but then slowly torturing a few of them to death in Trafalgar Square would be quite a deterrent too, and might equally be "Benthamite" if you mean by that, reduce suffering overall.
Then you need to propose an alternative. I’ve not seen anything convincing beyond virtue signalling and vague hand waving, which amount to: let them all come
I saw a prediction just now that 60-70,000 might arrive this way, this year. If that is anywhere near correct it is insupportable. The numbers are tripling every year
If we don’t find a solution now this will end with the Navy shooting at the boats to deter them, and many many drownings. No nation can allow a total loss of control of its borders
He could use some of the slave money* that he lives on to help rebuild Africa
* the legacy of reparations paid to British landowners to compensate them for their slaves being freed. Consider it a personal redemption
I expect the Tories to lose in 2024. And Starmer to lead a NOM govt. In a macabre way it will be entertaining to watch Labour struggle and completely fail to solve any of these intractable problems. They are bereft of ideas and entirely lacking in imagination or courage
So their fragile coalition might collapse quite quickly, under the weight of failure. And the Tories could be back in a year or two
I think that might be a good outcome from my personal selfish perspective. I suspect people assumed that sort of thing might happen prior to 1997
It depends on what happens to the Tories in defeat. As Leon says, there's no way Labour can fix the problems in short order; but they may be able to make the worst of the pain land somewhere other than on their wavering voters - or at least make the case that they have done so. The Tories have been wasteful in that regard.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
How can any of us compete with the skills honed in the OU? It requires us all to become suddenly mind bendingly incompetent and arrogant and that isn't always easy if you've spent years being the opposite.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
The Oxford Union stuff was utterly risible, especially when you consider that Dom kept Boris away from Andrew Neil because he knew he'd be slaughtered.
Just spent a wonderful family day in Southwold. A bit chillier than I would have liked, but fun. It was also bittersweet: my parents are getting older and noticeably frailer now. Where once they would have walked from the pier to the harbour and back, they now drive.
Thank goodness Covid is essentially over, so we can at least spend these more of these precious moments together.
As John Major said, 'when your back's against the wall, then it's time to turn round and fight.'
Doesn't that mean you will be fighting a wall?
Exactly
I do think that Operation Save Big Dog is going in studs-up. Nonetheless both Beergate and BasicInstinctgate seem to be gaining traction for Team Boris.
Perhaps Lynton Crosby,'s boys will reheat the Savile slur for good measure.
I read that quite a large number of migrants crossed the Channel today, after zero crossings this week (due, of course, to the triumph of the Rwandan policy). So how do we explain these crossings today? Is it because a) the Rwandan threat has begun to wane, or b) the wind direction has finally shifted from north-east to south-west? My money's strongly on b).
I agree. 250 crossed today, according to the Mail
So this is it. Patel’s test. She needs to fly quite a few people to Rwanda to deter others, unless of course her plan was all bluster…
If she fails, and they keep coming, I suggest her career is over. She can’t dodge the issue any more
Yep. One way ticket to Rwanda please. For the lot. It's the kindest thing to prevent future hordes of dinghys. It is a Benthamite policy.
“Notwithstanding Rwanda’s history, the world must be under no illusion as to the truth. Rwanda is hostage to the Kagame dictatorship and is more akin to a detention camp than a state where the people are sovereign.” Theogene Rudasingwa, Rwanda ambassador to USA 1996-9
If the whole place is like a detention camp, guess what sort of treatment displaced foreigners in actual detention camps can expect?
That doesn't invalidate your point of course, but then slowly torturing a few of them to death in Trafalgar Square would be quite a deterrent too, and might equally be "Benthamite" if you mean by that, reduce suffering overall.
Then you need to propose an alternative. I’ve not seen anything convincing beyond virtue signalling and vague hand waving, which amount to: let them all come
I saw a prediction just now that 60-70,000 might arrive this way, this year. If that is anywhere near correct it is insupportable. The numbers are tripling every year
If we don’t find a solution now this will end with the Navy shooting at the boats to deter them, and many many drownings. No nation can allow a total loss of control of its borders
I'm all for Quality Control on PB - but that's a rather high bar if a poster can't oppose this (imo silly and offensive) Rwanda plan unless they can solve the problem themselves.
Besides, there are an awful lot of ways that this scheme can fail to work- legal challenges, lack of capacity, or refugees vanishing into the night, off the top of my head. If that comes to pass, we're down in money and in wasting time on a dumb plan instead of a better one. (Cracking down on dodgy employers, say.)
In which case Just Doing Nothing (or to give it a classical spin, First Do No Harm) would be an improvement, from the point of view of government, if not politics.
As John Major said, 'when your back's against the wall, then it's time to turn round and fight.'
Doesn't that mean you will be fighting a wall?
Exactly
I do think that Operation Save Big Dog is going in studs-up. Nonetheless both Beergate and BasicInstinctgate seem to be gaining traction for Team Boris.
Perhaps Lynton Crosby,'s boys will reheat the Savile slur for good measure.
If they're doing this for some mid term council elections, I hate to think what they'll come up with for the next General Election.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
The Oxford Union stuff was utterly risible, especially when you consider that Dom kept Boris away from Andrew Neil because he knew he'd be slaughtered.
The Oxford Union and the Cambridge Union Society are just about 'show'. However that show does encourage thought in the audience. It's a bit odd that the clowns prosper so.
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
Question: the "Rayner did say it" defence. Remember it's in defence of a story claiming that male Tory ministers are so stupid and misogynistic that they can be distracted by a woman who may be in possession of a vagina.
Its all a bit "Women, Know Your Limits." With "Vote Conservative. If you're a man, obviously Torry should be in the bedroom or kitchen or tractor" added on.
I read that quite a large number of migrants crossed the Channel today, after zero crossings this week (due, of course, to the triumph of the Rwandan policy). So how do we explain these crossings today? Is it because a) the Rwandan threat has begun to wane, or b) the wind direction has finally shifted from north-east to south-west? My money's strongly on b).
I agree. 250 crossed today, according to the Mail
So this is it. Patel’s test. She needs to fly quite a few people to Rwanda to deter others, unless of course her plan was all bluster…
If she fails, and they keep coming, I suggest her career is over. She can’t dodge the issue any more
Yep. One way ticket to Rwanda please. For the lot. It's the kindest thing to prevent future hordes of dinghys. It is a Benthamite policy.
“Notwithstanding Rwanda’s history, the world must be under no illusion as to the truth. Rwanda is hostage to the Kagame dictatorship and is more akin to a detention camp than a state where the people are sovereign.” Theogene Rudasingwa, Rwanda ambassador to USA 1996-9
If the whole place is like a detention camp, guess what sort of treatment displaced foreigners in actual detention camps can expect?
That doesn't invalidate your point of course, but then slowly torturing a few of them to death in Trafalgar Square would be quite a deterrent too, and might equally be "Benthamite" if you mean by that, reduce suffering overall.
Then you need to propose an alternative. I’ve not seen anything convincing beyond virtue signalling and vague hand waving, which amount to: let them all come
I saw a prediction just now that 60-70,000 might arrive this way, this year. If that is anywhere near correct it is insupportable. The numbers are tripling every year
If we don’t find a solution now this will end with the Navy shooting at the boats to deter them, and many many drownings. No nation can allow a total loss of control of its borders
I'm all for Quality Control on PB - but that's a rather high bar if a poster can't oppose this (imo silly and offensive) Rwanda plan unless they can solve the problem themselves.
The idea that you shouldn't criticize if you can't come up with a solution yourself I have always thought to be particularly daft.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
The Oxford Union stuff was utterly risible, especially when you consider that Dom kept Boris away from Andrew Neil because he knew he'd be slaughtered.
And all that Boris learned there was that he couldn't beat a Liberal accountant from a state school. The guy he eventually defeated had the oratorical skills of a sub par Ian Blackford.
As John Major said, 'when your back's against the wall, then it's time to turn round and fight.'
Doesn't that mean you will be fighting a wall?
Exactly
I do think that Operation Save Big Dog is going in studs-up. Nonetheless both Beergate and BasicInstinctgate seem to be gaining traction for Team Boris.
Perhaps Lynton Crosby,'s boys will reheat the Savile slur for good measure.
If they're doing this for some mid term council elections, I hate to think what they'll come up with for the next General Election.
Poor council elections results for the Conservatives allegedly threaten Johnson, so the stakes are as high for him as the next GE. The PB faithful are buying into Beergate and Rayner so maybe the voters will too.
Question: the "Rayner did say it" defence. Remember it's in defence of a story claiming that male Tory ministers are so stupid and misogynistic that they can be distracted by a woman who may be in possession of a vagina.
Its all a bit "Women, Know Your Limits." With "Vote Conservative. If you're a man, obviously Torry should be in the bedroom or kitchen or tractor" added on.
There is independent evidence for this claim, given what is being said about two or is it three cabinet ministers who seem to be unsafe to be around, and downgrading the probability of quite a few cabinet members being the culprits as they are women. It does seem to be a real problem on the front bench.
Of course, we need to see what comes out in the wash.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
As John Major said, 'when your back's against the wall, then it's time to turn round and fight.'
Doesn't that mean you will be fighting a wall?
Exactly
I do think that Operation Save Big Dog is going in studs-up. Nonetheless both Beergate and BasicInstinctgate seem to be gaining traction for Team Boris.
Perhaps Lynton Crosby,'s boys will reheat the Savile slur for good measure.
If they're doing this for some mid term council elections, I hate to think what they'll come up with for the next General Election.
Poor council elections results for the Conservatives allegedly threaten Johnson, so the stakes are as high for him as the next GE. The PB faithful are buying into Beergate and Rayner so maybe the voters will too.
Quite, and showing how happy they are with
(a) accusing people of serious sexual harassment at work (b) accusing people of violating the covid laws in operation at the time in question, and the Durham police of corruption*
just because these people are non-Tory politicians.
*I don't recally them accusing the Durham polis of being bent when it came to the legality of eye tests at Barnard's Castle.
I read that quite a large number of migrants crossed the Channel today, after zero crossings this week (due, of course, to the triumph of the Rwandan policy). So how do we explain these crossings today? Is it because a) the Rwandan threat has begun to wane, or b) the wind direction has finally shifted from north-east to south-west? My money's strongly on b).
I agree. 250 crossed today, according to the Mail
So this is it. Patel’s test. She needs to fly quite a few people to Rwanda to deter others, unless of course her plan was all bluster…
If she fails, and they keep coming, I suggest her career is over. She can’t dodge the issue any more
Yep. One way ticket to Rwanda please. For the lot. It's the kindest thing to prevent future hordes of dinghys. It is a Benthamite policy.
“Notwithstanding Rwanda’s history, the world must be under no illusion as to the truth. Rwanda is hostage to the Kagame dictatorship and is more akin to a detention camp than a state where the people are sovereign.” Theogene Rudasingwa, Rwanda ambassador to USA 1996-9
If the whole place is like a detention camp, guess what sort of treatment displaced foreigners in actual detention camps can expect?
That doesn't invalidate your point of course, but then slowly torturing a few of them to death in Trafalgar Square would be quite a deterrent too, and might equally be "Benthamite" if you mean by that, reduce suffering overall.
Then you need to propose an alternative. I’ve not seen anything convincing beyond virtue signalling and vague hand waving, which amount to: let them all come
I saw a prediction just now that 60-70,000 might arrive this way, this year. If that is anywhere near correct it is insupportable. The numbers are tripling every year
If we don’t find a solution now this will end with the Navy shooting at the boats to deter them, and many many drownings. No nation can allow a total loss of control of its borders
I'm all for Quality Control on PB - but that's a rather high bar if a poster can't oppose this (imo silly and offensive) Rwanda plan unless they can solve the problem themselves.
Besides, there are an awful lot of ways that this scheme can fail to work- legal challenges, lack of capacity, or refugees vanishing into the night, off the top of my head. If that comes to pass, we're down in money and in wasting time on a dumb plan instead of a better one. (Cracking down on dodgy employers, say.)
In which case Just Doing Nothing (or to give it a classical spin, First Do No Harm) would be an improvement, from the point of view of government, if not politics.
So, again, just let them all in. That’s the extent of your solution.
At some point Labour will have to tell us exactly how they WOULD solve this problem, instead of sneering at every Tory attempt as “racist and offensive” yet offering no alternative
This could come back to bite Labour quite badly. If there is one way Starmer could lose, it’s the impression he is a nullity. A machine politician devoid of spark or ideas. A woke silhouette of a well meaning void
Why is the BBC even reporting on the Rayner “story”? Really shocking editorial decision.
Surely they could be focusing on the bust at Lady Mone’s, or even Liam Byrne’s bullying (and the accidental disclosure of his victim’s names to him during the inquiry).
They could even be reporting (steel yourself, Brexiters) on the news that the US has decided to share top classified intelligence on China/Taiwan with the Brits and the Brits only at a bilateral meeting early last month; construed as a vote of confidence in the UK’s pivot to the Indo-Pacific.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
FFS, do you really think Ms Rayner flashes at the PM?
It was a funny private joke, which the Tories tried to turn against her and now they look like the pathetic, flaccid dinosaurs that they are.
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
Edit: 'populated with Scots/Irish', I mean ... lots of other folk too plus the locals ... and Leon did point out English links (very interesting). Not surprising, much common cuisine.
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
Quite so. Pretty sure early C19th Scots would have better uses for beef tallow and lard than melting down large quantities of it to fry a very occasional chicken.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
Quite so. Pretty sure early C19th Scots would have better uses for beef tallow and lard than melting down large quantities of it to fry a very occasional chicken.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but it still seems very possible to me.
The Scots will fry anything, the traditional oil was lard, you don’t need modern deep fat criers.
The Scots-Irish settled the Appalachians, taking with them whisky, country music, a propensity for evangelical religion, and fried chicken.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
It is entirely both these things.
So let’s say she did it and joked about it. Is it then “vile misogynist abuse” to reveal that she did this, in the Mail?
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
The last time I watched PMQs, there were a bunch of people sitting on either side of the PM, and a bunch of people sitting right behind him. Quite hard to give him a secret wink I’d have thought.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
FFS, do you really think Ms Rayner flashes at the PM?
It was a funny private joke, which the Tories tried to turn against her and now they look like the pathetic, flaccid dinosaurs that they are.
And saddled with MP caught watching porn in the Step-Mother of Parliaments to boot.
No wonder Tories are making noises re: female quotas for parliament. AND likely to select a woman to defend Tiverton & Honiton? Unless they are REALLY feeling lucky?
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
FFS, do you really think Ms Rayner flashes at the PM?
It was a funny private joke, which the Tories tried to turn against her and now they look like the pathetic, flaccid dinosaurs that they are.
Well, she’s clearly happy to say she does it, when she’s had a couple of beers, on the commons terrace. Is she lying? I’ve no idea
Btw I quite like angela R. I reckon she’d be a much more interesting leader than Starmer and might actually have some fresh ideas. It would also be good for the country to have someone with her tough gritty background in charge. We’ve had enough lawyers and enough etonians for now
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
Dirty vag-possessing fiend. She knows the PM can't restrain himself.
Speaking of St Charles Ave in New Orleans, worked for a guy whose aunt & uncle lived in one of those big houses during the 1950s and 1960s.
On one memorable occasion, uncle came home from work to find aunt in tears. Because an couple of NO police had stopped by, because she'd wracked up an impressive number of unpaid parking tickets!
This visit upset the lady, and the fact that the cops had come to his home in his absence, questioning and scaring his wife, enraged my friends uncle.
Uncle belonged to a rather exclusive, old-school NO gentleman's club. No hanky-panky (except for some slot machines & poker playing) but with well-stocked (and well-used) bar.
Happened that the Mayor of New Orleans, deLesseps (Cheep) Morrison, was also a member. So uncle determined that he'd go down to the club, wait for His Honor to make is appearance - then shoot the son of a bitch!
My friend, a college student at the time, was staying with his uncle & aunt during a school break. He'd been out while all this was transpiring, and when he got back, his aunt told him what was going down.
So he hightailed it down to the club. When he got there, the attendants or whatever they called them, told him that "Mr Stanley" (his first name btw in Deep South fashion) was at the bar in a dangerous state. "I'm gonna killed the god-damn sonofabitch" he kept muttering into his drink(s).
Fortunately my friend was able to coax his uncle to return home BEFORE the mayor showed.
BTW, had ANOTHER friend, from somewhat different social strata, who got arrested around the same period, on suspicion for having murdered the mayor's mistress. Fortunately for him, turned out someone else had done that deed.
Do you know the origin of the deep frying tradition in the South? It’s not a lie, they really do deep fry A LOT
I had some deep fried oysters last night. Hmm. Not bad. But I’d not choose to have them again. Give me them raw and salty please
I wonder if it is the heat down here. Making food go off quicker? If you deep fry something you can murder a lot of bugs and disguise a lot of rot, and deep fried food can then keep for a while…
I always assumed it was the “Scots-Irish” heritage. It’s definitely a thing.
As for the heat, god only knows what New Orleans was like in summer before air-con.
My aunt-in-law, who is now a celebrated children’s author, lived in Darwin for a period in the early 70s and she says half the population were literally driven insane and to alcoholism by the heat and humidity.
Don't think it's anything to do with Scots-Irish. Deep fat frying is not found in old cookbooks that I can recall. Fish and chips came with Jewish immigrants tyo the big cities of Scotland in the late C19.
I wonder if it is shallow pan frying that was imported to the US, and latr converted to industrial deep frying?
This guy thinks it is a form of preservation learned from Native Americans
What does the BBC know of Scotland? It cites just one report from Skye c 1760. And Boswell was probably half pished anyway.
Seriously, though, we need to demonstrate fried chicken US style in Scotland by say 1835 - which brings us nicely to Meg Dods Cookbook (recte by the protofeminist writer and editor Christian Johnstone AIUI). I can find broiling and/or shallow frying of chicken, veal etc. sometimes in egg and breadcrumbs but not deep frying (which is to be expected on open fires, no idea when deep frying domestically became easy - with the Victorian range?).
BTW I read in a history of food in WW2 that the reason fried chicken is so popular in the US was it was oneof the foods that was easy for Army etc cooks to produce en masse which helped create a sort of standardised US food style.
Yes. The guy I linked upthread makes a persuasive case that deep fried chicken is English, not Scottish
Which matches its popularity in English-settled parts of the South
Deep frying is unlikely to be a very healthy way to eat, because of how hot the oil is. A saturated fat like beef tallow is the safest; a poly-unsaturated fat like sunflower oil would be the most dangerous. However, one good thing is that the nutrients within the fish have been found to be somewhat protected from the heat because of its molecular structure. The same has not been proven for your saveloy though. Or your Mars bar. If that had any nutrients in the first place.
Well, the tourists in Edinburgh don't know that about their DFMBs do they? Or give a toss. It's their equivalent of our travel writer having a session with a shaman. Only less authentic.
Never heard anyone ever talk about a DFMB , one of those urban myths
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
Quite so. Pretty sure early C19th Scots would have better uses for beef tallow and lard than melting down large quantities of it to fry a very occasional chicken.
I tend to agree. The link I posted upthread suggests this was an upper class English dish imported into Virginia, via cookbooks owned by Jefferson etc, whence it spread across the south
The aristos could easily afford the fats for frying
LVIV, Ukraine — Long lines at gas stations across Ukraine are just the tip of a fuel crisis triggered partly by a Russian blockade of seaports and attacks on Ukrainian refineries and fuel storage depots.
NY Times blog
If this becomes about military fuel then Ukr have a big problem.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
Of course it can simultaneously be both. It's entirely possible for people to make self-deprecating jokes at themselves that would be utterly vile if others say of their own volition.
Eg hypothetically a woman might say she thinks she looks like a whale in a dress. I would not recommend you making that same comment to or about a woman though, or repeating it behind their back if you hear one saying it.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
It is entirely both these things.
So let’s say she did it and joked about it. Is it then “vile misogynist abuse” to reveal that she did this, in the Mail?
If she did it she was wrong to do so. Very wrong, but still very funny.
I tend not to read the Daily Mail, and any phrase such as that seems to point to troubles at the origin.
The war in Ukraine has weakened the Russian military so dramatically that fewer soldiers and armoured vehicles will partake in the country’s Victory Parade in Moscow on May 9.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
So the Daily Mail writes a story suggesting she wears clothes to show off her thighs a bit like Sharon Stone.
So after a few drinks she says "yep, it's all true, show him.the growler"
Now Tories are insisting that she is a fanny-flaunting fiend distracting a walking penis incapable of being PM for more than 5 minutes without accidentally impregnating some totty.
I once got told that I hire attractive females. To which I responded "yes it's true, I am High Heffner".
Saying "I am Hugh Heffner" in response to daft suggestions doesn't mean I am. Yet agreeing with a crap Daily Mail smear somehow makes it true
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I love southern fried chicken done properly. I am against the stereotypical mince that all Scottish people eat is deep fried Mars bars. Thee is a place for properly done fried food in a balanced diet..
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
Of course it can simultaneously be both. It's entirely possible for people to make self-deprecating jokes at themselves that would be utterly vile if others say of their own volition.
Eg hypothetically a woman might say she thinks she looks like a whale in a dress. I would not recommend you making that same comment to or about a woman though, or repeating it behind their back if you hear one saying it.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
Frying has been a mainstay of proletarian food forever.
Fried chicken Fish and chips Potato latkes Fritto misto
The idea that only aristo English had the means to fry chicken is bollocks.
But the PB Nats are talking about deep fat frying. An entirely different thing.
Fat would have been extremely precious until the mid 19th century and the beginnings of industrialised farming? Is my rough guess. Especially in poorer Scotland
You wouldn’t fill a whole tank to fry a humble hen. Unless you were rich - or, in America, blessed with tons of fat from plentiful game etc
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but it still seems very possible to me.
The Scots will fry anything, the traditional oil was lard, you don’t need modern deep fat criers.
The Scots-Irish settled the Appalachians, taking with them whisky, country music, a propensity for evangelical religion, and fried chicken.
It’s entirely plausible.
Utter pish , very few in Scotland would have been able to afford chickens many moons ago. Stereotypical sh**e, may have been different in the Appalachians. Back then it would have been more likely to be oysters and French wine. Or even vegetarion, beans , pulse etc.
Speaking of St Charles Ave in New Orleans, worked for a guy whose aunt & uncle lived in one of those big houses during the 1950s and 1960s.
On one memorable occasion, uncle came home from work to find aunt in tears. Because an couple of NO police had stopped by, because she'd wracked up an impressive number of unpaid parking tickets!
This visit upset the lady, and the fact that the cops had come to his home in his absence, questioning and scaring his wife, enraged my friends uncle.
Uncle belonged to a rather exclusive, old-school NO gentleman's club. No hanky-panky (except for some slot machines & poker playing) but with well-stocked (and well-used) bar.
Happened that the Mayor of New Orleans, deLesseps (Cheep) Morrison, was also a member. So uncle determined that he'd go down to the club, wait for His Honor to make is appearance - then shoot the son of a bitch!
My friend, a college student at the time, was staying with his uncle & aunt during a school break. He'd been out while all this was transpiring, and when he got back, his aunt told him what was going down.
So he hightailed it down to the club. When he got there, the attendants or whatever they called them, told him that "Mr Stanley" (his first name btw in Deep South fashion) was at the bar in a dangerous state. "I'm gonna killed the god-damn sonofabitch" he kept muttering into his drink(s).
Fortunately my friend was able to coax his uncle to return home BEFORE the mayor showed.
BTW, had ANOTHER friend, from somewhat different social strata, who got arrested around the same period, on suspicion for having murdered the mayor's mistress. Fortunately for him, turned out someone else had done that deed.
Do you know the origin of the deep frying tradition in the South? It’s not a lie, they really do deep fry A LOT
I had some deep fried oysters last night. Hmm. Not bad. But I’d not choose to have them again. Give me them raw and salty please
I wonder if it is the heat down here. Making food go off quicker? If you deep fry something you can murder a lot of bugs and disguise a lot of rot, and deep fried food can then keep for a while…
I always assumed it was the “Scots-Irish” heritage. It’s definitely a thing.
As for the heat, god only knows what New Orleans was like in summer before air-con.
My aunt-in-law, who is now a celebrated children’s author, lived in Darwin for a period in the early 70s and she says half the population were literally driven insane and to alcoholism by the heat and humidity.
Don't think it's anything to do with Scots-Irish. Deep fat frying is not found in old cookbooks that I can recall. Fish and chips came with Jewish immigrants tyo the big cities of Scotland in the late C19.
I wonder if it is shallow pan frying that was imported to the US, and latr converted to industrial deep frying?
This guy thinks it is a form of preservation learned from Native Americans
What does the BBC know of Scotland? It cites just one report from Skye c 1760. And Boswell was probably half pished anyway.
Seriously, though, we need to demonstrate fried chicken US style in Scotland by say 1835 - which brings us nicely to Meg Dods Cookbook (recte by the protofeminist writer and editor Christian Johnstone AIUI). I can find broiling and/or shallow frying of chicken, veal etc. sometimes in egg and breadcrumbs but not deep frying (which is to be expected on open fires, no idea when deep frying domestically became easy - with the Victorian range?).
BTW I read in a history of food in WW2 that the reason fried chicken is so popular in the US was it was oneof the foods that was easy for Army etc cooks to produce en masse which helped create a sort of standardised US food style.
Yes. The guy I linked upthread makes a persuasive case that deep fried chicken is English, not Scottish
Which matches its popularity in English-settled parts of the South
Deep frying is unlikely to be a very healthy way to eat, because of how hot the oil is. A saturated fat like beef tallow is the safest; a poly-unsaturated fat like sunflower oil would be the most dangerous. However, one good thing is that the nutrients within the fish have been found to be somewhat protected from the heat because of its molecular structure. The same has not been proven for your saveloy though. Or your Mars bar. If that had any nutrients in the first place.
Well, the tourists in Edinburgh don't know that about their DFMBs do they? Or give a toss. It's their equivalent of our travel writer having a session with a shaman. Only less authentic.
Never heard anyone ever talk about a DFMB , one of those urban myths
I used to work in central Edinburgh. The chippies had posters in the windows to say they sold the things, i.e. for the tourists. Like the local equivalent of waterzooi in Brussel.
Frying has been a mainstay of proletarian food forever.
Fried chicken Fish and chips Potato latkes Fritto misto
The idea that only aristo English had the means to fry chicken is bollocks.
But the PB Nats are talking about deep fat frying. An entirely different thing.
Fat would have been extremely precious until the mid 19th century and the beginnings of industrialised farming? Is my rough guess. Especially in poorer Scotland
You wouldn’t fill a whole tank to fry a humble hen. Unless you were rich - or, in America, blessed with tons of fat from plentiful game etc
There was no deep fat frying in 'Highlander'. Nor in 'Highlander 2'. Therefore it's tricky to see how this myth arose!
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but it still seems very possible to me.
The Scots will fry anything, the traditional oil was lard, you don’t need modern deep fat criers.
The Scots-Irish settled the Appalachians, taking with them whisky, country music, a propensity for evangelical religion, and fried chicken.
It’s entirely plausible.
I provided early C19 recipes for Scottish shallow fat frying/broiling in breadcrumbs. That makes entire sense. Leon pointed out they were also used in England. Ditto.
What's the point of deep fat frying before Jewish immigrants and mass urban working classes needing quick f & c?
Edit: My mother used to make fried fish, in breadcrumbs. But it was always shallow fried. On one side, then turn over when golden.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
Pretty clear she jokes about it. So all the self pitying feminist victimology was just bollocks.
Does she actually DO it? I’ve no idea. Nor do you
You've got this wrong. She didn't do it - if she did, there'd be filmed evidence by now.
However, I do think the source of the story is Rayner herself. It's a joke Leon - you remember them? She's sitting with some Tory MP and she said "yeah, what I do with your boss is the Sharon Stone bit from Basic Instinct - discombobulates him completely, what a tosser. Ha ha." To extrapolate from that to her actually doing it because she didn't go to Oxford so can't match the PM's debating skills is some stretch. So in their desperation to smear, the DM has embellished a mildly amusing tale into a misogynistic lie.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
Of course it can simultaneously be both. It's entirely possible for people to make self-deprecating jokes at themselves that would be utterly vile if others say of their own volition.
Eg hypothetically a woman might say she thinks she looks like a whale in a dress. I would not recommend you making that same comment to or about a woman though, or repeating it behind their back if you hear one saying it.
False analogy
Not really. It isn't exactly parallel but the point is well made. You are wrong in saying the scenario you stated was mutually exclusive. They aren't. Both can be true. In fact that would be exactly my view.
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but it still seems very possible to me.
The Scots will fry anything, the traditional oil was lard, you don’t need modern deep fat criers.
The Scots-Irish settled the Appalachians, taking with them whisky, country music, a propensity for evangelical religion, and fried chicken.
It’s entirely plausible.
Utter pish , very few in Scotland would have been able to afford chickens many moons ago. Stereotypical sh**e, may have been different in the Appalachians. Back then it would have been more likely to be oysters and French wine. Or even vegetarion, beans , pulse etc.
Boswell claimed to have had fried chicken in the Outer Hebrides so I am calling shite.
@Leon is right that this seems to have a struck a nerve, and I too cannot really understand why.
The Rayner story is so old archaeological remnants are being discovered but apparently it's still worth trying to get your retaliation in last (just like two of my tips yesterday).
Clearly, the "friends of the Conservative Party" feel they have somehow to fight back. I can only think the returns from the local election canvassing are as bad a many suspect and the only response is to try the old "they're all as bad as each other" line to depress turnout and perhaps reduce losses.
As per usual, the "character" of prominent Labour figures is going to be an issue at the next election (as presumably all the important ones are now playing so badly for the Government). Perhaps they think Rayner is going to be the "weak link" just as they thought Prescott was in the 1990s. Trouble is, the electorate are more worried about paying for small things like food and energy than worrying about who said and did what in the dim and distant.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
Pretty clear she jokes about it. So all the self pitying feminist victimology was just bollocks.
Does she actually DO it? I’ve no idea. Nor do you
She jokes about it. After the Hate Mail wrote it and she decided to own their abuse.
Here's a radical idea. How about the neanderthal members of the cabinet maintain their ability to think and act rationally in proximity to women?
As ever in these situations, it's a good idea to swap genders and think if your reactions are the same. Would you have the same reaction to a male MP 'joking' privately about flashing their genitalia to distract a female opponent?
I'd also point out that no political party is free from such neandertals. You do not need to dig deep in the Conservatives, Labour, Lib Dems or the SNP to find prominent members who have had issues with the opposite sex.
As such - and I'm not excusing it - it is a symptom of a wider malaise in society.
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but it still seems very possible to me.
The Scots will fry anything, the traditional oil was lard, you don’t need modern deep fat criers.
The Scots-Irish settled the Appalachians, taking with them whisky, country music, a propensity for evangelical religion, and fried chicken.
It’s entirely plausible.
I provided early C19 recipes for Scottish shallow fat frying/broiling in breadcrumbs. That makes entire sense. Leon pointed out they were also used in England. Ditto.
What's the point of deep fat frying before Jewish immigrants and mass urban working classes needing quick f & c?
Edit: My mother used to make fried fish, in breadcrumbs. But it was always shallow fried. On one side, then turn over when golden.
I don’t ducking know, who do you think I am, Jane Grigson?
Those hillbillies got it from somewhere. The alternative theory was from black slaves, and history doesn’t exactly bestow them immense, lard-wasting wealth.
Edit: we seem to have got tangled up in deep fat frying. That does not seem to me essential to the invention of fried chicken.
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
Quite so. Pretty sure early C19th Scots would have better uses for beef tallow and lard than melting down large quantities of it to fry a very occasional chicken.
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but it still seems very possible to me.
The Scots will fry anything, the traditional oil was lard, you don’t need modern deep fat criers.
The Scots-Irish settled the Appalachians, taking with them whisky, country music, a propensity for evangelical religion, and fried chicken.
It’s entirely plausible.
I provided early C19 recipes for Scottish shallow fat frying/broiling in breadcrumbs. That makes entire sense. Leon pointed out they were also used in England. Ditto.
What's the point of deep fat frying before Jewish immigrants and mass urban working classes needing quick f & c?
Edit: My mother used to make fried fish, in breadcrumbs. But it was always shallow fried. On one side, then turn over when golden.
I don’t ducking know, who do you think I am, Jane Grigson?
Those hillbillies got it from somewhere. The alternative theory was from black slaves, and history doesn’t exactly bestow them immense, lard-wasting wealth.
Leon provided an interesting source - the First Nations. Worth looking at his source.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
FFS, do you really think Ms Rayner flashes at the PM?
It was a funny private joke, which the Tories tried to turn against her and now they look like the pathetic, flaccid dinosaurs that they are.
Yep. Exactly. To sexist and classist we can add sneaky and humourless.
Had a fairly apolitical few days. One thing I've noticed today is that people who aren't into politics aren't very interested in the porn story, and several find it amusing. Political friends (not just Labour) are outraged, but others seem to think MPs are probably up to all sorts, and Parish was just unlucky, Is that what others are hearing, or do I judst have unusually cynical friends?
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
Speaking of fried foods, one of my favorites - hushpuppies!
Which are small(ish) balls of deep-fried cornmeal. Traditionally southern; personally always associate them as accompaniment to coastal Carolina seafood.
Though my favorite hushpuppies of all time, were ones served by Ralph and Kacoos restaurants in Baton Rouge and Hammond, Louisiana (both history unfortunately). Anyway, these babies were big for hushpuppies, at least the size of golf balls. The crust was quite crunchy, and the insides soft in a good way.
When I was briefly semi-attached to Southern LA University in Hammond, used to go to R&K for lunch. The hushpuppies were gratis, served with everything. And everything was great. PLUS got a faculty discount!
Frying has been a mainstay of proletarian food forever.
Fried chicken Fish and chips Potato latkes Fritto misto
The idea that only aristo English had the means to fry chicken is bollocks.
But the PB Nats are talking about deep fat frying. An entirely different thing.
Fat would have been extremely precious until the mid 19th century and the beginnings of industrialised farming? Is my rough guess. Especially in poorer Scotland
You wouldn’t fill a whole tank to fry a humble hen. Unless you were rich - or, in America, blessed with tons of fat from plentiful game etc
There was no deep fat frying in 'Highlander'. Nor in 'Highlander 2'. Therefore it's tricky to see how this myth arose!
There is no such movie called Highlander 2. It does not exist. It just doesn't
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
I for one welcome Ishyvoo to the ranks of the PB Nats. We need more grumpiness.
Just didn't feel right. Shallow frying early on, when southern states being populated, yes. Industrial scale deep fat in Glasgow etc. late C19, yes. Modern deep fat frying on domestic cookers, yes. But the KFC story didn't ring true.
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but it still seems very possible to me.
The Scots will fry anything, the traditional oil was lard, you don’t need modern deep fat criers.
The Scots-Irish settled the Appalachians, taking with them whisky, country music, a propensity for evangelical religion, and fried chicken.
It’s entirely plausible.
I provided early C19 recipes for Scottish shallow fat frying/broiling in breadcrumbs. That makes entire sense. Leon pointed out they were also used in England. Ditto.
What's the point of deep fat frying before Jewish immigrants and mass urban working classes needing quick f & c?
Edit: My mother used to make fried fish, in breadcrumbs. But it was always shallow fried. On one side, then turn over when golden.
I don’t ducking know, who do you think I am, Jane Grigson?
Those hillbillies got it from somewhere. The alternative theory was from black slaves, and history doesn’t exactly bestow them immense, lard-wasting wealth.
Leon provided an interesting source - the First Nations. Worth looking at his source.
Yeh cos the migratory First Nations never mounted a buffalo without their deep fat fryer.
I don’t believe that theory at all. America likes to make up these connections; it’s a displacement strategy to avoid thinking about genocide.
I read that quite a large number of migrants crossed the Channel today, after zero crossings this week (due, of course, to the triumph of the Rwandan policy). So how do we explain these crossings today? Is it because a) the Rwandan threat has begun to wane, or b) the wind direction has finally shifted from north-east to south-west? My money's strongly on b).
I agree. 250 crossed today, according to the Mail
So this is it. Patel’s test. She needs to fly quite a few people to Rwanda to deter others, unless of course her plan was all bluster…
If she fails, and they keep coming, I suggest her career is over. She can’t dodge the issue any more
Yep. One way ticket to Rwanda please. For the lot. It's the kindest thing to prevent future hordes of dinghys. It is a Benthamite policy.
“Notwithstanding Rwanda’s history, the world must be under no illusion as to the truth. Rwanda is hostage to the Kagame dictatorship and is more akin to a detention camp than a state where the people are sovereign.” Theogene Rudasingwa, Rwanda ambassador to USA 1996-9
If the whole place is like a detention camp, guess what sort of treatment displaced foreigners in actual detention camps can expect?
That doesn't invalidate your point of course, but then slowly torturing a few of them to death in Trafalgar Square would be quite a deterrent too, and might equally be "Benthamite" if you mean by that, reduce suffering overall.
Then you need to propose an alternative. I’ve not seen anything convincing beyond virtue signalling and vague hand waving, which amount to: let them all come
I saw a prediction just now that 60-70,000 might arrive this way, this year. If that is anywhere near correct it is insupportable. The numbers are tripling every year
If we don’t find a solution now this will end with the Navy shooting at the boats to deter them, and many many drownings. No nation can allow a total loss of control of its borders
I'm all for Quality Control on PB - but that's a rather high bar if a poster can't oppose this (imo silly and offensive) Rwanda plan unless they can solve the problem themselves.
Besides, there are an awful lot of ways that this scheme can fail to work- legal challenges, lack of capacity, or refugees vanishing into the night, off the top of my head. If that comes to pass, we're down in money and in wasting time on a dumb plan instead of a better one. (Cracking down on dodgy employers, say.)
In which case Just Doing Nothing (or to give it a classical spin, First Do No Harm) would be an improvement, from the point of view of government, if not politics.
So, again, just let them all in. That’s the extent of your solution.
At some point Labour will have to tell us exactly how they WOULD solve this problem, instead of sneering at every Tory attempt as “racist and offensive” yet offering no alternative
This could come back to bite Labour quite badly. If there is one way Starmer could lose, it’s the impression he is a nullity. A machine politician devoid of spark or ideas. A woke silhouette of a well meaning void
Negotiate a deal with France. We agree to take between 5 and 20k asylum seekers from them each year (and none from the Calais region) contingent on agreed annual targets for large reductions in the number of crossings.
Provides a strong incentive for the French to tackle the problem at source, and legal route for significant numbers into the UK only if illegal crossings drop, potentially reducing the incentive to pay for illegal crossings.
It's more likely to succeed than Patel's nonsense, and actually not immoral.
Jack Matthews @JackJmatt · Apr 30 Which English council is most dominated by a single party? Leicester City has 52/54 Labour councillors (1 each for LD and Con)
Election Maps UK @ElectionMapsUK · 1h Barking & Dagenham 50/51 Labour, the other seat is a vacancy so 100% Labour.
John Rentoul @JohnRentoul · 1h So it is. Barking and Dagenham the winner, then, I think
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
Assuming Oakshott's source isn't the same one that shone light on Dave's Oxford necrozoophilia, why doesn't this guy just go public? If he really wants to damage Rayner and generate sympathy for Boris why all the anonymous briefings? Does he think he won't be believed?
Incidentally, I think I know why the Tories are after Rayner. I reckon they think, and I agree, that our Ange will be quite a big hit with many of the northern and midland 'red wall' voters that the Tories are desperate to hold on to. What they'll think is: "She's a bit of a gobshite, Angie, but at least she tells it like it is and doesn't have all those airs and graces that most of them politicians have".
In a funny sort of way, I can see Angie becoming Labour's antidote to Boris's appeal with the white w/c vote. Starmer and Reeves will court the southern and metropolitan 'remainers'; Ange will win over the northern towns. Job done.
Had a fairly apolitical few days. One thing I've noticed today is that people who aren't into politics aren't very interested in the porn story, and several find it amusing. Political friends (not just Labour) are outraged, but others seem to think MPs are probably up to all sorts, and Parish was just unlucky, Is that what others are hearing, or do I judst have unusually cynical friends?
The Tory vote is in full retreat. How could it get worse? Oh well done Parish.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
Jack Matthews @JackJmatt · Apr 30 Which English council is most dominated by a single party? Leicester City has 52/54 Labour councillors (1 each for LD and Con)
Election Maps UK @ElectionMapsUK · 1h Barking & Dagenham 50/51 Labour, the other seat is a vacancy so 100% Labour.
John Rentoul @JohnRentoul · 1h So it is. Barking and Dagenham the winner, then, I think
The Tory flush is so busted they are only weeks away from John Redwood mounting a leadership coup surrounded by the customers from the bar in Star Wars.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
Pretty clear she jokes about it. So all the self pitying feminist victimology was just bollocks.
Does she actually DO it? I’ve no idea. Nor do you
She jokes about it. After the Hate Mail wrote it and she decided to own their abuse.
Here's a radical idea. How about the neanderthal members of the cabinet maintain their ability to think and act rationally in proximity to women?
As ever in these situations, it's a good idea to swap genders and think if your reactions are the same. Would you have the same reaction to a male MP 'joking' privately about flashing their genitalia to distract a female opponent?
I'd also point out that no political party is free from such neandertals. You do not need to dig deep in the Conservatives, Labour, Lib Dems or the SNP to find prominent members who have had issues with the opposite sex.
As such - and I'm not excusing it - it is a symptom of a wider malaise in society.
I gave you the reverse angle. I was accused of only hiring hotties. Which I parodied by saying "I am Hugh Heffner" whenever anyone mentioned either the accusation or made reference to the person who made it.
Here the Daily Mail writes a smear - she wears clothes to try and distract poor Boris like Sharon Stone. She owns it by saying "yep, it's true".
And that's the point. Your suggestion that all parties are full of sleazeballs is exactly what the Tories are trying to suggest. To save a man who accidentally can't look at a woman without wanting to shag it.
Yet it's not him who gets the grief. Its the women.
In my view if Raynor did do as alleged it was a very funny and private joke. Good for her, and a very dismal thing for anyone to make capital out of it. If she didn't do as alleged then it's outrageous that it's been suggested.
Tories again looking bloody ridiculous, and from an an entirely unforced error.
Quite. They'd be well advised to move on.
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
You think it’s permissible for a shadow cabinet minister to flash her vagina at the prime minister so as to unsettle him?
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
We can all be pretty clear that she hasn't. But I do agree that these vagina-wielding fiends should be kept away from rampant stallions like the Big Dog.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
The evidence now suggests that she really did do this, and then joked about it. Read Isabel Oakeshott’s otherwise-sympathetic piece in the Spectator
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The evidence? What fucking evidence. You have consumed too much sazerac.
Pretty clear she jokes about it. So all the self pitying feminist victimology was just bollocks.
Does she actually DO it? I’ve no idea. Nor do you
You've got this wrong. She didn't do it - if she did, there'd be filmed evidence by now.
However, I do think the source of the story is Rayner herself. It's a joke Leon - you remember them? She's sitting with some Tory MP and she said "yeah, what I do with your boss is the Sharon Stone bit from Basic Instinct - discombobulates him completely, what a tosser. Ha ha." To extrapolate from that to her actually doing it because she didn't go to Oxford so can't match the PM's debating skills is some stretch. So in their desperation to smear, the DM has embellished a mildly amusing tale into a misogynistic lie.
I do think discombobulation is a PMQs strategy for the opposition front bench. Ed Balls constantly gestured at Cameron, seemingly with this intention in mind, and IMHO he often succeeded.
Comments
Sir Michael Take CBE
@MichaelTakeMP
·
10h
My ❤️goes out to #neilparish
Many of us in the farming community innocently tap into our phones rural topics of interest such as: Milking, Stallion, Hoes, Waxed Jackets etc.
We are then greeted with filth aimed at our loins.
Neil was ambushed by such filth & has now sadly gone.😞
They are normally super keen to claim everything as a Scottish invention. Yet not “southern fried chicken”
Not sure why. KFC giving it a bad name?
Done correctly it’s a fantastic dish. Spicy and crunchy and salty and umami. Mmm
btw problem solved: Claas Dominator
https://www.claas.co.uk/news-testimonials/current/claas-news/claas-dominator---an-icon-among-combine-harvesters-for-half-a-century/2524360
"She knows she can't compete with his Oxford Union debating skills so she uses some skills he doesn't have."
Unpack that and puke.
https://youtu.be/hpHgJZKXa0M
Just spent a wonderful family day in Southwold. A bit chillier than I would have liked, but fun. It was also bittersweet: my parents are getting older and noticeably frailer now. Where once they would have walked from the pier to the harbour and back, they now drive.
Thank goodness Covid is essentially over, so we can at least spend these more of these precious moments together.
Perhaps Lynton Crosby,'s boys will reheat the Savile slur for good measure.
In which case Just Doing Nothing (or to give it a classical spin, First Do No Harm) would be an improvement, from the point of view of government, if not politics.
Northern English - a pork pie.
It then helpfully provides an example of use...
"you can't beat a good growler with brown sauce"
Some of us actually quite like historical accuracy ...
Its all a bit "Women, Know Your Limits." With "Vote Conservative. If you're a man, obviously Torry should be in the bedroom or kitchen or tractor" added on.
The guy he eventually defeated had the oratorical skills of a sub par Ian Blackford.
Of course, we need to see what comes out in the wash.
No wonder you want people to move on from the topic
This cannot be simultaneously “a funny private joke if it happened” but “a totally outrageous slur if it didn’t happen”
(a) accusing people of serious sexual harassment at work
(b) accusing people of violating the covid laws in operation at the time in question, and the Durham police of corruption*
just because these people are non-Tory politicians.
*I don't recally them accusing the Durham polis of being bent when it came to the legality of eye tests at Barnard's Castle.
At some point Labour will have to tell us exactly how they WOULD solve this problem, instead of sneering at every Tory attempt as “racist and offensive” yet offering no alternative
This could come back to bite Labour quite badly. If there is one way Starmer could lose, it’s the impression he is a nullity. A machine politician devoid of spark or ideas. A woke silhouette of a well meaning void
Surely they could be focusing on the bust at Lady Mone’s, or even Liam Byrne’s bullying (and the accidental disclosure of his victim’s names to him during the inquiry).
They could even be reporting (steel yourself, Brexiters) on the news that the US has decided to share top classified intelligence on China/Taiwan with the Brits and the Brits only at a bilateral meeting early last month; construed as a vote of confidence in the UK’s pivot to the Indo-Pacific.
One sniff of flange and he's off. You can't stop him, before you can say "you can't afford the child maintenance payments" he's already shagged it and knocked it up.
It was a funny private joke, which the Tories tried to turn against her and now they look like the pathetic, flaccid dinosaurs that they are.
Personally I find her cunning stunt mildly amusing, but I’m probably in a minority. More importantly, Labour made such a meal of the accusation being a vile piece of misogynist abuse they can’t now walk it back and say “oh well it was just a gag, isn’t she a card, let’s all move on”
The Scots will fry anything, the traditional oil was lard, you don’t need modern deep fat criers.
The Scots-Irish settled the Appalachians, taking with them whisky, country music, a propensity for evangelical religion, and fried chicken.
It’s entirely plausible.
You have consumed too much sazerac.
No wonder Tories are making noises re: female quotas for parliament. AND likely to select a woman to defend Tiverton & Honiton? Unless they are REALLY feeling lucky?
Btw I quite like angela R. I reckon she’d be a much more interesting leader than Starmer and might actually have some fresh ideas. It would also be good for the country to have someone with her tough gritty background in charge. We’ve had enough lawyers and enough etonians for now
I don’t even much rate Ms Rayner, but this comes across as misogynistic, classist, and pathetic.
Its all her fault.
The aristos could easily afford the fats for frying
NY Times blog
If this becomes about military fuel then Ukr have a big problem.
Eg hypothetically a woman might say she thinks she looks like a whale in a dress. I would not recommend you making that same comment to or about a woman though, or repeating it behind their back if you hear one saying it.
Fried chicken
Fish and chips
Potato latkes
Fritto misto
The idea that only aristo English had the means to fry chicken is bollocks.
I tend not to read the Daily Mail, and any phrase such as that seems to point to troubles at the origin.
Telegraph.
How's that wary war thing going Vlad?
Pretty clear she jokes about it. So all the self pitying feminist victimology was just bollocks.
Does she actually DO it? I’ve no idea. Nor do you
So after a few drinks she says "yep, it's all true, show him.the growler"
Now Tories are insisting that she is a fanny-flaunting fiend distracting a walking penis incapable of being PM for more than 5 minutes without accidentally impregnating some totty.
I once got told that I hire attractive females. To which I responded "yes it's true, I am High Heffner".
Saying "I am Hugh Heffner" in response to daft suggestions doesn't mean I am. Yet agreeing with a crap Daily Mail smear somehow makes it true
Thee is a place for properly done fried food in a balanced diet..
Here's a radical idea. How about the neanderthal members of the cabinet maintain their ability to think and act rationally in proximity to women?
Fat would have been extremely precious until the mid 19th century and the beginnings of industrialised farming? Is my rough guess. Especially in poorer Scotland
You wouldn’t fill a whole tank to fry a humble hen. Unless you were rich - or, in America, blessed with tons of fat from plentiful game etc
Some berk heard it, and decided to leak a mangled version to the Mail which then accused her of being some kind of scarlet woman.
Yes, the Mail reporting was misogynistic.
The PM criticised the story and disavowed any knowledge of it.
Stereotypical sh**e, may have been different in the Appalachians.
Back then it would have been more likely to be oysters and French wine. Or even vegetarion, beans , pulse etc.
What's the point of deep fat frying before Jewish immigrants and mass urban working classes needing quick f & c?
Edit: My mother used to make fried fish, in breadcrumbs. But it was always shallow fried. On one side, then turn over when golden.
However, I do think the source of the story is Rayner herself. It's a joke Leon - you remember them? She's sitting with some Tory MP and she said "yeah, what I do with your boss is the Sharon Stone bit from Basic Instinct - discombobulates him completely, what a tosser. Ha ha." To extrapolate from that to her actually doing it because she didn't go to Oxford so can't match the PM's debating skills is some stretch. So in their desperation to smear, the DM has embellished a mildly amusing tale into a misogynistic lie.
@Leon is right that this seems to have a struck a nerve, and I too cannot really understand why.
The Rayner story is so old archaeological remnants are being discovered but apparently it's still worth trying to get your retaliation in last (just like two of my tips yesterday).
Clearly, the "friends of the Conservative Party" feel they have somehow to fight back. I can only think the returns from the local election canvassing are as bad a many suspect and the only response is to try the old "they're all as bad as each other" line to depress turnout and perhaps reduce losses.
As per usual, the "character" of prominent Labour figures is going to be an issue at the next election (as presumably all the important ones are now playing so badly for the Government). Perhaps they think Rayner is going to be the "weak link" just as they thought Prescott was in the 1990s. Trouble is, the electorate are more worried about paying for small things like food and energy than worrying about who said and did what in the dim and distant.
I'd also point out that no political party is free from such neandertals. You do not need to dig deep in the Conservatives, Labour, Lib Dems or the SNP to find prominent members who have had issues with the opposite sex.
As such - and I'm not excusing it - it is a symptom of a wider malaise in society.
Those hillbillies got it from somewhere.
The alternative theory was from black slaves, and history doesn’t exactly bestow them immense, lard-wasting wealth.
Edit: we seem to have got tangled up in deep fat frying. That does not seem to me essential to the invention of fried chicken.
Which are small(ish) balls of deep-fried cornmeal. Traditionally southern; personally always associate them as accompaniment to coastal Carolina seafood.
Though my favorite hushpuppies of all time, were ones served by Ralph and Kacoos restaurants in Baton Rouge and Hammond, Louisiana (both history unfortunately). Anyway, these babies were big for hushpuppies, at least the size of golf balls. The crust was quite crunchy, and the insides soft in a good way.
When I was briefly semi-attached to Southern LA University in Hammond, used to go to R&K for lunch. The hushpuppies were gratis, served with everything. And everything was great. PLUS got a faculty discount!
I don’t believe that theory at all.
America likes to make up these connections; it’s a displacement strategy to avoid thinking about genocide.
We agree to take between 5 and 20k asylum seekers from them each year (and none from the Calais region) contingent on agreed annual targets for large reductions in the number of crossings.
Provides a strong incentive for the French to tackle the problem at source, and legal route for significant numbers into the UK only if illegal crossings drop, potentially reducing the incentive to pay for illegal crossings.
It's more likely to succeed than Patel's nonsense, and actually not immoral.
Jack Matthews
@JackJmatt
·
Apr 30
Which English council is most dominated by a single party? Leicester City has 52/54 Labour councillors (1 each for LD and Con)
Election Maps UK
@ElectionMapsUK
·
1h
Barking & Dagenham 50/51 Labour, the other seat is a vacancy so 100% Labour.
John Rentoul
@JohnRentoul
·
1h
So it is. Barking and Dagenham the winner, then, I think
In a funny sort of way, I can see Angie becoming Labour's antidote to Boris's appeal with the white w/c vote. Starmer and Reeves will court the southern and metropolitan 'remainers'; Ange will win over the northern towns. Job done.
Desperate desperate Tories and Leon.
Here the Daily Mail writes a smear - she wears clothes to try and distract poor Boris like Sharon Stone. She owns it by saying "yep, it's true".
And that's the point. Your suggestion that all parties are full of sleazeballs is exactly what the Tories are trying to suggest. To save a man who accidentally can't look at a woman without wanting to shag it.
Yet it's not him who gets the grief. Its the women.