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Support for Brexit drops to new low – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 3 in General
imageSupport for Brexit drops to new low – politicalbetting.com

That is a little doubt that the flagship policy of the Johnson administration has been the execution of Britain’s exit from the EU – Brexit.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,708
    edited April 28
    So, is Brexit disillusionment a leading or trailing indicator? If trailing, then maybe this is the Tory floor. If leading, maybe there's another 5%-6% to slip?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 15,523
    The government is using our Brexit freedoms to not put in place the checks it wanted because of Brexit, or something like that. Jacob Rees-Mogg explains better than me why Brexit would have cost £1 billion but now it won't thanks to Brexit.
    https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2022-04-28/hcws796
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    No matter how hard the Brexit t*rd is polished, it remains a t*rd

    Oh yes... and first!


    David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    ·
    1h
    JRM explaining that implementing a Canada-style FTA will reduce opportunities for British exporters, increase costs for British consumers & be anti-free trade*. I’m sure he used to call that ‘Project Fear propaganda’.

    *Those are the implications of everything he’s saying.

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,366
    edited April 28

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 21,799
    Tbf only about 37% of the electorate voted for it in the first place.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    Yvette Cooper
    @YvetteCooperMP
    ·
    3h
    Still? After 11 years? Seriously? #EdBallsDay

    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1519702022739701761

    ===

    Wakefield awaits...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,366

    No matter how hard the Brexit t*rd is polished, it remains a t*rd

    Oh yes... and first!


    David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    ·
    1h
    JRM explaining that implementing a Canada-style FTA will reduce opportunities for British exporters, increase costs for British consumers & be anti-free trade*. I’m sure he used to call that ‘Project Fear propaganda’.

    *Those are the implications of everything he’s saying.

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke
    Just when I think that it is impossible to get lower than Raab, Johnson, Truss or Patel, you go and mention JRM.

    I do not normally advocate violence but an 18th Century remedy like the Pillory or Stocks would seem appropriate for that antiquated jackass.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Sound like a VERY risky move under the circumstances?

    Surely an ayahuasca party would be MUCH safer!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    Have I missed something? Other than the usual, he's not remotely up to the top job, stuff?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    Have I missed something? Other than the usual, he's not remotely up to the top job, stuff?
    Johnson is under pressure because he er, hosted drinks parties...
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,708

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    Have I missed something? Other than the usual, he's not remotely up to the top job, stuff?
    He's highly unlikely to be in Parliament after the next election, come to that.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,455
    I think you need to ask how many people want another referendum....
    And the answer will be very few people. About 10%
    Even if we did have another vote, few would like the likely terms on offer (free movement, euro, schengen etc), saying Brexit was a bad decision is not quite the same as support for rejoin.
    It has fallen off the agenda.
    I think that the EU has gone back to being an obscure issue that no one particularly cares about.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    You think something might be about to happen to him which would knock him out of the running, as it were?

    Dear God, let it be so.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 52,574
    mwadams said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    Have I missed something? Other than the usual, he's not remotely up to the top job, stuff?
    He's highly unlikely to be in Parliament after the next election, come to that.
    When is the official start of the 'chicken run'?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077

    No matter how hard the Brexit t*rd is polished, it remains a t*rd

    Oh yes... and first!


    David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    ·
    1h
    JRM explaining that implementing a Canada-style FTA will reduce opportunities for British exporters, increase costs for British consumers & be anti-free trade*. I’m sure he used to call that ‘Project Fear propaganda’.

    *Those are the implications of everything he’s saying.

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke
    Just when I think that it is impossible to get lower than Raab, Johnson, Truss or Patel, you go and mention JRM.

    I do not normally advocate violence but an 18th Century remedy like the Pillory or Stocks would seem appropriate for that antiquated jackass.
    Please forego traditional taring & feathering. But feel free to pelt his sedan chair with rotting herring.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,366

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Leader of what? What form of leadership ability does he imagine he possesses? If you knocked on his head I suspect it would echo on the inside. I cannot imagine anyone more over-promoted than Raab.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    Finally, @YBarddCwsc is unmasked:


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Leader of what? What form of leadership ability does he imagine he possesses? If you knocked on his head I suspect it would echo on the inside. I cannot imagine anyone more over-promoted than Raab.
    Oxford and Cambridge degrees.

    But then, Cummings was at Oxford and Burgon at Cambridge.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 9,077
    So tell me, what are the odds that "Leon"'s next great opus will be -

    "I'm a Fugitive From an Alabama Chain Gang: Fear and Loathing on the Natchez Trace"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    So tell me, what are the odds that "Leon"'s next great opus will be -

    "I'm a Fugitive From an Alabama Chain Gang: Fear and Loathing on the Natchez Trace"

    How do you knap that in flint?
  • pingping Posts: 2,398
    edited April 28
    Lol West Ham

    49 seconds
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,366
    edited April 28
    darkage said:

    I think you need to ask how many people want another referendum....
    And the answer will be very few people. About 10%
    Even if we did have another vote, few would like the likely terms on offer (free movement, euro, schengen etc), saying Brexit was a bad decision is not quite the same as support for rejoin.
    It has fallen off the agenda.
    I think that the EU has gone back to being an obscure issue that no one particularly cares about.

    A lot of people might countenance a return to the EEC, or as it would be styled these days, EFTA/EEA. It resolves the Schengen, Customs issues, etc whilst not worrying about the Euro as well as allowing national competences in farming and fisheries.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,094
    Ho-hum, are you still complaining about democracy? By it's nature, you win some and you lose some. You lost the argument. Don't you remember? I'm sure it was all over the media.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,366
    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Leader of what? What form of leadership ability does he imagine he possesses? If you knocked on his head I suspect it would echo on the inside. I cannot imagine anyone more over-promoted than Raab.
    Oxford and Cambridge degrees.

    But then, Cummings was at Oxford and Burgon at Cambridge.
    So he has a good memory. It does not mean he is a leader.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 6,483
    edited April 28
    darkage said:

    I think you need to ask how many people want another referendum....
    And the answer will be very few people. About 10%
    Even if we did have another vote, few would like the likely terms on offer (free movement, euro, schengen etc), saying Brexit was a bad decision is not quite the same as support for rejoin.
    It has fallen off the agenda.
    I think that the EU has gone back to being an obscure issue that no one particularly cares about.

    Even that's not easy for the government.

    "Brexit is in peril, and only Boris can save it" was a key part of the pitch in 2019, and I'm pretty sure that it is part of the plan for 2023/4. After all, not much else keeps the tribe together.

    Forget whether it's true or not, this is a political slogan, truth isn't that important. But there comes a point where the idea that Brexit was a mistake becomes so widespread that being its father and defender is a vote loser, not a vote winner.

    That tipping point isn't 47-39 (55-45 when you exclude DKs)... The question is where is the tipping point and will it be reached?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Leader of what? What form of leadership ability does he imagine he possesses? If you knocked on his head I suspect it would echo on the inside. I cannot imagine anyone more over-promoted than Raab.
    Oxford and Cambridge degrees.

    But then, Cummings was at Oxford and Burgon at Cambridge.
    So he has a good memory. It does not mean he is a leader.
    If he's already forgotten why Johnson's leadership has imploded, he's not even got that good a memory.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    I like this header. Punchy, welll written piece, two great points, 80% of 45% is lot more than 80% of 33%, and those who won Brexit vote could have had various types of Brexit and satisfied the 80% of 45% behind it. This is apparently hard brexits, but still thrrs Lord Frost and those behind him saying this is no Brexit at all, Brexit means embracing freedom to break away from the EU model.

    To be fair to Lord Frost, Boris and his Brexit government of leavers, just arn’t prepared to go the Frost way to true Brexit are they?

    Do you know what I mean, it feels not like Brexit but a sort of Brexit limbo? Government who created the current deal want it changed, business who backed Brexit didn’t anticipate such anti foreign worker Brexit, and Brexit Ultras like Lord Frost what quite big change from the current “we have wonderful Brexit” position.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,525
    If there is any credence to be given to M16 Rogue, the amount of porn watched seems to have turned the named politician entirely to wood.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,366
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Leader of what? What form of leadership ability does he imagine he possesses? If you knocked on his head I suspect it would echo on the inside. I cannot imagine anyone more over-promoted than Raab.
    Oxford and Cambridge degrees.

    But then, Cummings was at Oxford and Burgon at Cambridge.
    So he has a good memory. It does not mean he is a leader.
    If he's already forgotten why Johnson's leadership has imploded, he's not even got that good a memory.
    :D True!
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    mwadams said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    Have I missed something? Other than the usual, he's not remotely up to the top job, stuff?
    He's highly unlikely to be in Parliament after the next election, come to that.
    When is the official start of the 'chicken run'?
    When the new boundaries are approved, I guess.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,889
    If support for Brexit drops to say 25% by 2024 which seems more likely than not-there has been no Brexit dividend that anyone can see-then the future will be very interesting indeed.

    Johnson's dishonesty and the 'Brexit Bus' have segued in a way that most people are noticing and it seems to be accelerating.

    Perhaps Starmer will take a chance. With over half the country in favour it'll be quite a USP.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Roger said:

    If support for Brexit drops to say 25% by 2024 which seems more likely than not-there has been no Brexit dividend that anyone can see-then the future will be very interesting indeed.

    Johnson's dishonesty and the 'Brexit Bus' have segued in a way that most people are noticing and it seems to be accelerating.

    Perhaps Starmer will take a chance. With over half the country in favour it'll be quite a USP.

    You really think half the country would be in favour of joining the euro and Schengen?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    CD13 said:

    Ho-hum, are you still complaining about democracy? By it's nature, you win some and you lose some. You lost the argument. Don't you remember? I'm sure it was all over the media.

    I think you need to remember that Democracy means that people can disagree even after the event. "Remain" lost but that does not mean that those who voted that way must shut up forever.

    They are allowed to say it was a mistake, to have a contrary opinion.

    It is called democracy.
    You can say it's a mistake, but unless you're going to advocate Rejoining, it's just a pointless whinge.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    Applicant said:

    Roger said:

    If support for Brexit drops to say 25% by 2024 which seems more likely than not-there has been no Brexit dividend that anyone can see-then the future will be very interesting indeed.

    Johnson's dishonesty and the 'Brexit Bus' have segued in a way that most people are noticing and it seems to be accelerating.

    Perhaps Starmer will take a chance. With over half the country in favour it'll be quite a USP.

    You really think half the country would be in favour of joining the euro and Schengen?
    I'd be very keen on Schengen, but would skip on the whole EU thing. #
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,366
    Applicant said:

    CD13 said:

    Ho-hum, are you still complaining about democracy? By it's nature, you win some and you lose some. You lost the argument. Don't you remember? I'm sure it was all over the media.

    I think you need to remember that Democracy means that people can disagree even after the event. "Remain" lost but that does not mean that those who voted that way must shut up forever.

    They are allowed to say it was a mistake, to have a contrary opinion.

    It is called democracy.
    You can say it's a mistake, but unless you're going to advocate Rejoining, it's just a pointless whinge.
    I do advocate rejoining. I would even accept EEA membership.

    My views on this have never been any secret here on PB
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,708
    Applicant said:

    CD13 said:

    Ho-hum, are you still complaining about democracy? By it's nature, you win some and you lose some. You lost the argument. Don't you remember? I'm sure it was all over the media.

    I think you need to remember that Democracy means that people can disagree even after the event. "Remain" lost but that does not mean that those who voted that way must shut up forever.

    They are allowed to say it was a mistake, to have a contrary opinion.

    It is called democracy.
    You can say it's a mistake, but unless you're going to advocate Rejoining, it's just a pointless whinge.
    No - we don't have to rejoin to oppose this government's Brexit policies. It was a mistake to leave, but that's done.

    It was also a mistake to leave in this way.

    There's a lot of work that can be done to make things significantly better, rebuilding relationships and creating opportunities for business and cultural life in Europe. But not with the Government that took us out, and continues to abuse those relationships.

    We might then see a turn for the positive.

    That is what most people opposed to Tory Brexit are hoping for. Not the strawman of rejoin/Schengen etc.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,737
    He's finally resigned: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/28/imran-ahmad-khan-mp-completes-resignation-process

    "Imran Ahmad Khan has said he has now resigned as Wakefield’s MP and will no longer be a parliamentarian from this Saturday, two and a half weeks after being found guilty of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old boy.

    Ahmad Khan told the Guardian he had submitted his resignation on Monday and that it was effective from 30 April. That means he will be paid his salary in full for April.

    The Conservative party will then choose a date for a byelection, which will probably take place in late June, after the jubilee bank holidays and local elections."
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    You think something might be about to happen to him which would knock him out of the running, as it were?

    Dear God, let it be so.
    If his chances can now be dismissed out of hand, relief all round.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,785
    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Leader of what? What form of leadership ability does he imagine he possesses? If you knocked on his head I suspect it would echo on the inside. I cannot imagine anyone more over-promoted than Raab.
    Oxford and Cambridge degrees.

    But then, Cummings was at Oxford and Burgon at Cambridge.
    Raab and Cummings are Titans compared to Burgon.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    edited April 28
    Notice however that only 49% think Brexit was wrong, just 1% more than the 48% who voted Remain in 2016.

    Of course we still have a trade deal with the EU, a real ultra hard Brexit would have been No Deal
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    Applicant said:

    CD13 said:

    Ho-hum, are you still complaining about democracy? By it's nature, you win some and you lose some. You lost the argument. Don't you remember? I'm sure it was all over the media.

    I think you need to remember that Democracy means that people can disagree even after the event. "Remain" lost but that does not mean that those who voted that way must shut up forever.

    They are allowed to say it was a mistake, to have a contrary opinion.

    It is called democracy.
    You can say it's a mistake, but unless you're going to advocate Rejoining, it's just a pointless whinge.
    But is life really any more than a succession of pointless whinges, anyway?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    edited April 28

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Leader of what? What form of leadership ability does he imagine he possesses? If you knocked on his head I suspect it would echo on the inside. I cannot imagine anyone more over-promoted than Raab.
    Oxford and Cambridge degrees.

    But then, Cummings was at Oxford and Burgon at Cambridge.
    Raab and Cummings are Titans compared to Burgon.
    Although Burgon has a better memory than Cummings, who can't even apparently remember his own rules on Covid isolation and whose past is a tissue of fabrications that would embarrass the cast of Death of A Salesman.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,708
    edited April 28
    HYUFD said:

    Notice however that only 49% think Brexit was wrong, just 1% more than the 48% who voted Remain in 2016.

    Of course we still have a trade deal with the EU, a real ultra hard Brexit would have been No Deal

    You are miscounting. The referendum vote excluded the "don't knows".

    ETA: the comparable number is 57%
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647
    The nutters on the bus go
    Brexit Brexit Brexit
    Brexit Brexit Brexit
    Brexit Brexit Brexit
    The nutters on the bus go
    Brexit Brexit Brexit
    All through the town

    :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    You mean like austerity Osborne who you in the left also despised from 2010 to 2015
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 22,722

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    You think something might be about to happen to him which would knock him out of the running, as it were?

    Dear God, let it be so.
    If his chances can now be dismissed out of hand, relief all round.
    He might be about to come to a sticky end.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    mwadams said:

    Applicant said:

    CD13 said:

    Ho-hum, are you still complaining about democracy? By it's nature, you win some and you lose some. You lost the argument. Don't you remember? I'm sure it was all over the media.

    I think you need to remember that Democracy means that people can disagree even after the event. "Remain" lost but that does not mean that those who voted that way must shut up forever.

    They are allowed to say it was a mistake, to have a contrary opinion.

    It is called democracy.
    You can say it's a mistake, but unless you're going to advocate Rejoining, it's just a pointless whinge.
    No - we don't have to rejoin to oppose this government's Brexit policies. It was a mistake to leave, but that's done.

    It was also a mistake to leave in this way.

    There's a lot of work that can be done to make things significantly better, rebuilding relationships and creating opportunities for business and cultural life in Europe. But not with the Government that took us out, and continues to abuse those relationships.

    We might then see a turn for the positive.

    That is what most people opposed to Tory Brexit are hoping for. Not the strawman of rejoin/Schengen etc.
    Quite , with the possibility of something like EEA.

    The mouthbreathers' chorus of "We fucked things up so things gonna stay fucked up, democracy innit" is remarkable, when they could be listing say the 25 greatest benefits of leaving which have emerged in the 6 years since the vote. Truly remarkable.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,366
    HYUFD said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    You mean like austerity Osborne who you in the left also despised from 2010 to 2015
    Actually, I voted for Cameron and Osborne.

    I suppose from your political viewpoint, that makes me a "Lefty"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    You think something might be about to happen to him which would knock him out of the running, as it were?

    Dear God, let it be so.
    If his chances can now be dismissed out of hand, relief all round.
    He might be about to come to a sticky end.
    Don't be too hard on him.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,708
    I'm taking a moment to observe that OGH is an evil genius whose header has caused us to flap around rehearsing all our favourite Brexit lines, to distract us from the vicious argument about National Parks on the previous thread.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,305
    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    CD13 said:

    Ho-hum, are you still complaining about democracy? By it's nature, you win some and you lose some. You lost the argument. Don't you remember? I'm sure it was all over the media.

    I think you need to remember that Democracy means that people can disagree even after the event. "Remain" lost but that does not mean that those who voted that way must shut up forever.

    They are allowed to say it was a mistake, to have a contrary opinion.

    It is called democracy.
    You can say it's a mistake, but unless you're going to advocate Rejoining, it's just a pointless whinge.
    But is life really any more than a succession of pointless whinges, anyway?
    You complaining?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 50,178
    Cookie said:

    I am 100% sure that if we had voted to remain - and then seen the EU behave as they did over vaccines - and prevarication as they have over Ukraine - and spend the last six years attempting to extract more and more to prop up the Euro and extract trade from the city - and we're ruled over by unpopular leaders trying to govern us through a shitstorm who were irrevocably associated with Remain- that we would be seeing just as much regret over the decision to Remain as we do here over leave.

    Although if we had remained, we wouldn't have realised how imposingly the EU had screwed up over vaccines as we would have been in the EU scheme.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,889
    Interestingly in 2016 Tory Cabinet Ministers voted overwhelmingly Remain. 23 out of 30. I can't find the number of Tory MPs but I'd assume it was a majority. It's easy to forget that Leavers were a small rump gathered around oddballs like IDS
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    CD13 said:

    Ho-hum, are you still complaining about democracy? By it's nature, you win some and you lose some. You lost the argument. Don't you remember? I'm sure it was all over the media.

    I think you need to remember that Democracy means that people can disagree even after the event. "Remain" lost but that does not mean that those who voted that way must shut up forever.

    They are allowed to say it was a mistake, to have a contrary opinion.

    It is called democracy.
    You can say it's a mistake, but unless you're going to advocate Rejoining, it's just a pointless whinge.
    I do advocate rejoining. I would even accept EEA membership.

    My views on this have never been any secret here on PB
    If only Remainers had been talking about EEA in 2016.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,785
    Applicant said:

    Roger said:

    If support for Brexit drops to say 25% by 2024 which seems more likely than not-there has been no Brexit dividend that anyone can see-then the future will be very interesting indeed.

    Johnson's dishonesty and the 'Brexit Bus' have segued in a way that most people are noticing and it seems to be accelerating.

    Perhaps Starmer will take a chance. With over half the country in favour it'll be quite a USP.

    You really think half the country would be in favour of joining the euro and Schengen?
    I think most of us who were not of the faith would be contented enough to turn the clock back to early 2016. That is impossible, so we are never going back in my lifetime, so Putin has his way.

    Even some of us enthusiastic former Remainers had no desire to join the Euro. The loss of freedom of movement on the other hand was personally my biggest loss.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    You think something might be about to happen to him which would knock him out of the running, as it were?

    Dear God, let it be so.
    If his chances can now be dismissed out of hand, relief all round.
    He might be about to come to a sticky end.
    Don't be too hard on him.
    He did not, after all, join in the PM's intemperate critique of the senior clergy last weekend...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    Cookie said:

    I am 100% sure that if we had voted to remain - and then seen the EU behave as they did over vaccines - and prevarication as they have over Ukraine - and spend the last six years attempting to extract more and more to prop up the Euro and extract trade from the city - and we're ruled over by unpopular leaders trying to govern us through a shitstorm who were irrevocably associated with Remain- that we would be seeing just as much regret over the decision to Remain as we do here over leave.

    No, no, no: if we hadn't left we wouldn't be having any arguments about the EU at all.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,715
    edited April 28
    CatMan said:

    He's finally resigned: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/28/imran-ahmad-khan-mp-completes-resignation-process

    "Imran Ahmad Khan has said he has now resigned as Wakefield’s MP and will no longer be a parliamentarian from this Saturday, two and a half weeks after being found guilty of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old boy.

    Ahmad Khan told the Guardian he had submitted his resignation on Monday and that it was effective from 30 April. That means he will be paid his salary in full for April.

    The Conservative party will then choose a date for a byelection, which will probably take place in late June, after the jubilee bank holidays and local elections."

    As far as I am aware, Khan did not have to resign, as he is appealing, no?

    The former Labour MP for Leicester East has not resigned, as she is appealing her conviction.

    She has been expelled from the Labour Party, but she is still an MP. And a recall petition cannot start until the appeal has been heard.

    Khan is entitled to appeal -- and he could have, if he wished, remained as an MP until the appeal process was completed.

    So he seems to have gone reasonably promptly, all things considered.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 2,861
    Does anyone with a brain cell actually think Brexit is good?

    As I said at the time Brexit is a self inflicted calamity and people who voted “Leave” are morons. Nothing has changed…
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,094
    Moan away if you wish. But most of you don't know why you lost. Saying the same thing again isn't productive, and incidentally, Einstein always denied that quote.

    Anyone who voted for it is a fool or a knave and probably both. Keep believing that. Keep believing that France will welcome us back with open arms. The referendum result could have been different, but the mindset of some Remainers were and remain their worst enemy.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,366
    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    CD13 said:

    Ho-hum, are you still complaining about democracy? By it's nature, you win some and you lose some. You lost the argument. Don't you remember? I'm sure it was all over the media.

    I think you need to remember that Democracy means that people can disagree even after the event. "Remain" lost but that does not mean that those who voted that way must shut up forever.

    They are allowed to say it was a mistake, to have a contrary opinion.

    It is called democracy.
    You can say it's a mistake, but unless you're going to advocate Rejoining, it's just a pointless whinge.
    I do advocate rejoining. I would even accept EEA membership.

    My views on this have never been any secret here on PB
    If only Remainers had been talking about EEA in 2016.
    In 2016, EEA was not an option. We were offered "Remain" or "Leave". That was it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,394
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    I am 100% sure that if we had voted to remain - and then seen the EU behave as they did over vaccines - and prevarication as they have over Ukraine - and spend the last six years attempting to extract more and more to prop up the Euro and extract trade from the city - and we're ruled over by unpopular leaders trying to govern us through a shitstorm who were irrevocably associated with Remain- that we would be seeing just as much regret over the decision to Remain as we do here over leave.

    Although if we had remained, we wouldn't have realised how imposingly the EU had screwed up over vaccines as we would have been in the EU scheme.
    Not according to Remainers.

    :lol::lol::lol:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 16,923
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Epic irony fail given the circumstances.
    You think something might be about to happen to him which would knock him out of the running, as it were?

    Dear God, let it be so.
    If his chances can now be dismissed out of hand, relief all round.
    He might be about to come to a sticky end.
    Don't be too hard on him.
    He did not, after all, join in the PM's intemperate critique of the senior clergy last weekend...
    I see what you did there!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    edited April 28

    HYUFD said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    You mean like austerity Osborne who you in the left also despised from 2010 to 2015
    Actually, I voted for Cameron and Osborne.

    I suppose from your political viewpoint, that makes me a "Lefty"
    For Socialists the Cameron and Osborne government was worse than the current Boris and Sunak one as it was pursuing deeper spending cuts while this one has even increased spending.

    Liberals however hate this government more than the Coalition, because of Brexit as well as the fact the latter included the LDs unlike this one
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 46,234
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    I am 100% sure that if we had voted to remain - and then seen the EU behave as they did over vaccines - and prevarication as they have over Ukraine - and spend the last six years attempting to extract more and more to prop up the Euro and extract trade from the city - and we're ruled over by unpopular leaders trying to govern us through a shitstorm who were irrevocably associated with Remain- that we would be seeing just as much regret over the decision to Remain as we do here over leave.

    Although if we had remained, we wouldn't have realised how imposingly the EU had screwed up over vaccines as we would have been in the EU scheme.
    I would argue that us having Brexited actually benefited the EU during Covid. They were so petrified of having been seen to have f*cked up vaccine procurement, they caved and threw billions at Pfizer.

    Result - they ended up with almost the same experience as us, despite having totally ballsed up the beginning of their vaccination programme.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,785
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    Raab was hosting drinks last night to try and rally his leadership bid according to Telegraph snouts.
    Leader of what? What form of leadership ability does he imagine he possesses? If you knocked on his head I suspect it would echo on the inside. I cannot imagine anyone more over-promoted than Raab.
    Oxford and Cambridge degrees.

    But then, Cummings was at Oxford and Burgon at Cambridge.
    Raab and Cummings are Titans compared to Burgon.
    Although Burgon has a better memory than Cummings, who can't even apparently remember his own rules on Covid isolation and whose past is a tissue of fabrications that would embarrass the cast of Death of A Salesman.
    Tbf to Cummings, who is of a similar age to me, we do tend to forget the odd thing or two. Burgon and his ilk seem to me to be fundamentally wicked people.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,887
    A poll which means exactly what the reader wants it to mean, as can be seen in this thread. But I get that’s it’s hard to keep generating fresh thread headers.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647
    HYUFD said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    You mean like austerity Osborne who you in the left also despised from 2010 to 2015
    You voted Remain just like Osborne.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    CD13 said:

    Moan away if you wish. But most of you don't know why you lost. Saying the same thing again isn't productive, and incidentally, Einstein always denied that quote.

    Anyone who voted for it is a fool or a knave and probably both. Keep believing that. Keep believing that France will welcome us back with open arms. The referendum result could have been different, but the mindset of some Remainers were and remain their worst enemy.

    We lost because clever but dishonest people lied to stupid and gullible people. I wonder which category you are in.

    ....

    I have reached a conclusion.

    ....

    Nobody thinks that rejoining is a possibility for at least a (genuine) generation. Straw manning.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,887
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61260511

    Discussed to death I imagine but…. Wow.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,708
    CD13 said:

    Moan away if you wish. But most of you don't know why you lost. Saying the same thing again isn't productive, and incidentally, Einstein always denied that quote.

    Anyone who voted for it is a fool or a knave and probably both. Keep believing that. Keep believing that France will welcome us back with open arms. The referendum result could have been different, but the mindset of some Remainers were and remain their worst enemy.

    I completely agree with that. For all the lies and obfuscations of Leave, what lost the referendum for Remain was the cloth eared arrogance of many remainers and the resulting laziness of the Remain campaign.

    We are, however, moving into a phase where a lot of Leavers feel that the new boss is same as the old boss, and they were taken for fools by that side too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923

    HYUFD said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    You mean like austerity Osborne who you in the left also despised from 2010 to 2015
    You voted Remain just like Osborne.
    Yes and I also voted for Cameron as I now vote for Boris, I have never suggested otherwise. Nor am I leftwing
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,615
    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    CD13 said:

    Ho-hum, are you still complaining about democracy? By it's nature, you win some and you lose some. You lost the argument. Don't you remember? I'm sure it was all over the media.

    I think you need to remember that Democracy means that people can disagree even after the event. "Remain" lost but that does not mean that those who voted that way must shut up forever.

    They are allowed to say it was a mistake, to have a contrary opinion.

    It is called democracy.
    You can say it's a mistake, but unless you're going to advocate Rejoining, it's just a pointless whinge.
    But is life really any more than a succession of pointless whinges, anyway?
    Brexit is definitely a succession of pointless whinges, hence the continuation of whingeing even though Brexiteers are in charge.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,412
    Is Jonny Depp gonna win this time?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,394
    biggles said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61260511

    Discussed to death I imagine but…. Wow.

    I was shocked how little attention that received on the Six o'clock News tonight.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 6,398
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    OT. Is Moon Rabbit a reincarnation of that Enoch Powell fan whose name I've forgotten?

    Another great avatar from you Rogerdamus.

    Are you a New Wave fan?
    Thank you. One I took in Paris last winter. Yes I am (If you're talking about the French Nouvelle Vague) A big fan. I like most French Cinema of that time.
    As wiki puts it succinctly, a French art film movement that emerged in the late 1950s. The movement was characterized by its rejection of traditional filmmaking conventions in favor of experimentation and a spirit of iconoclasm. New Wave filmmakers explored new approaches to editing, visual style, and narrative, as well as engagement with the social and political upheavals of the era, often making use of irony or exploring existential themes. The New Wave is often considered one of the most influential movements in the history of cinema.

    Are you familiar with David Boring and Like a Velvet Glove Cast in Iron? Struck me as New Wave cinema scripts as soon as I read them. 🙂

    So one of yours. Its excellent because I didn’t think that.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,080
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    You mean like austerity Osborne who you in the left also despised from 2010 to 2015
    Actually, I voted for Cameron and Osborne.

    I suppose from your political viewpoint, that makes me a "Lefty"
    For Socialists the Cameron and Osborne government was worse than the current Boris and Sunak one as it was pursuing deeper spending cuts while this one has even increased spending.

    Liberals however hate this government more than the Coalition, because of Brexit as well as the fact the latter included the LDs unlike this one
    Do you really think it is just Brexit? There are ex Tories who post here who voted to leave who hate Boris and all he stands for (if he stands for anything other than himself). How do you explain that if it is brexit?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    biggles said:

    A poll which means exactly what the reader wants it to mean, as can be seen in this thread. But I get that’s it’s hard to keep generating fresh thread headers.

    49 R 41L 8 DK Mar 22, 2016 Ipsos MORI 1,023

    It shows that we are pretty much in the middle of the range of pre-ref polls in 2016, the above being closest I can eyeball. To quote a great Conservative PM, Nothing Has Changed.

    https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,492
    Roger said:

    Interestingly in 2016 Tory Cabinet Ministers voted overwhelmingly Remain. 23 out of 30. I can't find the number of Tory MPs but I'd assume it was a majority. It's easy to forget that Leavers were a small rump gathered around oddballs like IDS

    The official position of the Conservative Party in the 2016 Referendum was neutral even though the Party's leader and Prime Minister was actively campaigning for a Remain vote.

    In 1975, Wilson was officially neutral and allowed Labour MPs to campaign on both sides.

    The difference was in 2016 the referendum was the outcome of Cameron's post-2015 election "negotiations" for a revised form of membership with the rest of the EU. The club refused to change the rules for one member so we voted to leave (basically).

    Cameron couldn't even insist on Cabinet loyalty but he couldn't force any of them to resign so we had the curious position of those taking opposing views on a fundamental political question sitting round the same Cabinet table.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 1,708
    tlg86 said:

    biggles said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61260511

    Discussed to death I imagine but…. Wow.

    I was shocked how little attention that received on the Six o'clock News tonight.
    It's the breakdown too - $20bn in military aid is a lot. I assume that's anticipating a long haul and amping up manufacturing on the things they need.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,637
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    I am 100% sure that if we had voted to remain - and then seen the EU behave as they did over vaccines - and prevarication as they have over Ukraine - and spend the last six years attempting to extract more and more to prop up the Euro and extract trade from the city - and we're ruled over by unpopular leaders trying to govern us through a shitstorm who were irrevocably associated with Remain- that we would be seeing just as much regret over the decision to Remain as we do here over leave.

    Although if we had remained, we wouldn't have realised how imposingly the EU had screwed up over vaccines as we would have been in the EU scheme.
    Now who's using Project Fear.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 16,785
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    You mean like austerity Osborne who you in the left also despised from 2010 to 2015
    Actually, I voted for Cameron and Osborne.

    I suppose from your political viewpoint, that makes me a "Lefty"
    For Socialists the Cameron and Osborne government was worse than the current Boris and Sunak one as it was pursuing deeper spending cuts while this one has even increased spending.

    Liberals however hate this government more than the Coalition, because of Brexit as well as the fact the latter included the LDs unlike this one
    You do write some rubbish. Having never been a Socialist or a Liberal how do you know how their minds work?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 1,279
    edited April 28
    Given that the Hard Brexit policy is so closely identified with Boris Johnson personally, I did idly wonder if the collapse of his own popularity had contaminated the Brexit brand. Then I remembered that so many other leading Conservatives are perhaps even more closely identified with the policy.

    The economic reality is that British companies, particularly SMEs, have seen a dramatic fall in exports. Farming and Fishing have been especially damaged but all have been affected as export markets closed but greater competition developed in the domestic market. This is an extra burden that is shackling British economic performance at a time when there is a growing global economic crisis, so it is not that much of a surprise that Britain has fallen to the bottom of the G7 growth curve. The failure of the Conservative government to develop a coherrent post Brexit economic policy is evident, and essentially this is because David Frost, JRM and others on the Conservative side do not hold their views for coherrent economic reasons.

    Unless the Tories can communicate clear economic goals for their hard Brexit policies before the next GE, then they are quite likely to lose. After that, at the very least, Britain will probably U-turn and begin to seek much closer alignment with the EU. Eventually a half-in/half-out alignment might emerge, and although this is much weaker than full membership, the direction of travel will be clear. Maybe then Britain either rejoins, or joins wider arrangements which are the successor to the the current EU in all but name. In any event, it is hard to see how the electorate would forgive a political party identified with a disastrous failure that had cost the country so much, both economically and reputationally.

    It really is a perfect storm: dishonesty, sleaze, and the implosion of their flagship policy. What strikes me too, is that it is Conservatives, like Ken Clarke, who are the most contemptuous of the current leadership.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,887
    tlg86 said:

    biggles said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61260511

    Discussed to death I imagine but…. Wow.

    I was shocked how little attention that received on the Six o'clock News tonight.
    Given what the Kremlin has already said and done this week, it should be top of everyone’s mind. Entirely the right move by the US, but very ballsy - and ballsy on behalf of us all.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 4,780
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    You mean like austerity Osborne who you in the left also despised from 2010 to 2015
    Actually, I voted for Cameron and Osborne.

    I suppose from your political viewpoint, that makes me a "Lefty"
    For Socialists the Cameron and Osborne government was worse than the current Boris and Sunak one as it was pursuing deeper spending cuts while this one has even increased spending.

    Liberals however hate this government more than the Coalition, because of Brexit as well as the fact the latter included the LDs unlike this one
    You have a unique ability to know exactly what your opponents think, don't you? You will go far.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,889
    biggles said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61260511

    Discussed to death I imagine but…. Wow.

    That should get him five or six nukes. More than enough to see off the Russians. Three at Moscow. Two at Cap Ferrat and one at Kensington
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    moonshine said:

    Is Jonny Depp gonna win this time?

    I've seen bits of his evidence livestreamed. He is very, very funny, running rings round his cross examiners.

    Goering, mind you, had the room in stitches throughout his trial at Nuremberg, and Wilde was pretty good in the witness box, so it is not a prognosticator of the outcome.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,492
    HYUFD said:


    For Socialists the Cameron and Osborne government was worse than the current Boris and Sunak one as it was pursuing deeper spending cuts while this one has even increased spending.

    Liberals however hate this government more than the Coalition, because of Brexit as well as the fact the latter included the LDs unlike this one

    An interesting distortion of history - the Coalition supported measures to bring the public finances back under control after the disasters of the Brown era and the global financial crash of 2008. The recovery from that and the return of tax receipts helped get the deficit under control.

    The reason the current Conservative administration is "hated" (your word, not mine) by Liberals and liberals is it is far more illiberal than its predecessors as can be seen in the legislation passed which continues to concentrate and centralise power within Whitehall and with Ministers in contrast to the Cameron period where MPs like Nick Hurd strongly supported the de-centralisation of power away from Whitehall and back to accountable local authorities.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 6,366
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    You mean like austerity Osborne who you in the left also despised from 2010 to 2015
    Actually, I voted for Cameron and Osborne.

    I suppose from your political viewpoint, that makes me a "Lefty"
    For Socialists the Cameron and Osborne government was worse than the current Boris and Sunak one as it was pursuing deeper spending cuts while this one has even increased spending.

    Liberals however hate this government more than the Coalition, because of Brexit as well as the fact the latter included the LDs unlike this one
    Please explain how voting Conservative makes me a Leftie
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't hold all the cards.

    Thank goodness for the PM's oven ready deal!

    The irony is the more the government talks about fixing the Northern Ireland Protocol it reminds the voters about Brexit and how badly Boris Johnson has handled it.

    Elect a clown, you get a circus. Still, the punters like the entertainment and nobody worries about anything happening outside the Big Tent...

    IMO, this version of the Tory Party deserves to be utterly routed at the next election and replaced with the sort of Conservatives that used to do competent, fiscal policies. You know..... serious people with some actual ability unlike the suit called Raab and the Hang'em and Flog'em Home Secretary we have.
    You mean like austerity Osborne who you in the left also despised from 2010 to 2015
    Actually, I voted for Cameron and Osborne.

    I suppose from your political viewpoint, that makes me a "Lefty"
    For Socialists the Cameron and Osborne government was worse than the current Boris and Sunak one as it was pursuing deeper spending cuts while this one has even increased spending.

    Liberals however hate this government more than the Coalition, because of Brexit as well as the fact the latter included the LDs unlike this one
    You do write some rubbish. Having never been a Socialist or a Liberal how do you know how their minds work?
    You only have to see the anti austerity riots in the Coalition years leading to Corbyn being elected Labour leader to see that.

    Some of those same Socialist voters who voted Labour then and despised Cameron and Osborne and loved Corbyn are indifferent about Starmer and vote Green and many not that bothered about Brexit either.


    However some voters who voted for Cameron in 2010 and 2015 are now voting for Starmer Labour or the LDs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    For Socialists the Cameron and Osborne government was worse than the current Boris and Sunak one as it was pursuing deeper spending cuts while this one has even increased spending.

    Liberals however hate this government more than the Coalition, because of Brexit as well as the fact the latter included the LDs unlike this one

    An interesting distortion of history - the Coalition supported measures to bring the public finances back under control after the disasters of the Brown era and the global financial crash of 2008. The recovery from that and the return of tax receipts helped get the deficit under control.

    The reason the current Conservative administration is "hated" (your word, not mine) by Liberals and liberals is it is far more illiberal than its predecessors as can be seen in the legislation passed which continues to concentrate and centralise power within Whitehall and with Ministers in contrast to the Cameron period where MPs like Nick Hurd strongly supported the de-centralisation of power away from Whitehall and back to accountable local authorities.
    Which does not defeat my point that Socialists hated the Cameron and Osborne government even more than this one at all, even if Liberals loathe this government more than Cameron's
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 19,157
    Leon said:

    Cheers PB from Natchez. Mississippi

    Made it!





    Tote that barge, an' lift that bale.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 1,887
    IshmaelZ said:

    moonshine said:

    Is Jonny Depp gonna win this time?

    I've seen bits of his evidence livestreamed. He is very, very funny, running rings round his cross examiners.

    Goering, mind you, had the room in stitches throughout his trial at Nuremberg, and Wilde was pretty good in the witness box, so it is not a prognosticator of the outcome.
    Out of interest, is that true of Goering? Would have assumed it was a joke only I know it’s often said the prosecution of him was incompetent.
This discussion has been closed.