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The human factor – politicalbetting.com

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,602
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    My view of this is that it will only be a big problem if Johnson decides to go to court over the fines. If he just pays them, then he will get away with it on the basis that it is part of his unique political style. He has basically been saved by the war in Ukraine, it has completely overshadowed COVID, and a lot of people understandably struggle to come to terms with this reality and the injustice of it.

    With regard to the 'Rwanda' border policy, I don't think people really understand the detail of it. It is the usual thing where oppositions complain about the 'injustice' of a policy whilst proposing zero alternatives. If it works ok, and gets going, then the government will probably ultimately get some credit for it, particularly if it sorts out the illegal boat crossing problem. It will be a case of the government being the 'do-ers' and leading public opinion. Again this will feel like an enormous injustice to those that oppose it, but such is politics.
    We're about to become the thing we oppose - people traffickers. We're going to detail people and deport them to Rwanda where we claim our obligations to these people ends. They can choose to claim asylum in Rwanda, or leave, or die - we simply don't care.

    As detail comes out as to just how little we give a fuck about these people, I can't see how this becomes a vote winner for the Tories, just as the "deport people" policy never was for the New Party's precursors in the BNP. Iain Dale's reaction live on air was instructive and he's far from being an isolated case.

    Simple reality - this won't solve the boats problem. Once dumped in Rwanda the ones seeking the west will simply leave. And come back - as the Home Office have pointed out. Nor can we or do we catch all the boats. Nor are there "zero alternatives" to this - the government refuses to co-operate internationally because of Brexit and refuses to go after scum employers because exploitation of labour is exactly what the JRM Singapore-on-Thames wing of the party had in mind for Brexit.
    Yeah ok. I don't like it either. But what is the alternative solution exactly?
    If the concern is the safety of the people making the trip on dinghies, do we put on ferries to make the trip safe? And how many millions per year do we accept in to the UK to pursue their claims here? If we are at 1,000 per day under the current situation, that is the population of a large town coming to the UK every year. How long can that go on for?

    The brutal logic is that if you make the trip by small boat impossible, then people will stop using this route. In the absence of any other solution, this may be effective.
    This scheme doesn't make crossings impossible, though, does it ?

    The ones best placed to make crossings difficult are the French. If we have them a real incentive - for example agreeing to take a given number of asylum seekers from France for a given reduction in boat crossings - we might begin to address the issue without breaching our international treaty obligations.

    As it is, we are massively less generous than large parts of Europe in the numbers of refugees we accept - and palming off our obligations on a country a fraction of our size which is both far poorer and more overcrowded than we are is utterly immoral.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,302
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    My view of this is that it will only be a big problem if Johnson decides to go to court over the fines. If he just pays them, then he will get away with it on the basis that it is part of his unique political style. He has basically been saved by the war in Ukraine, it has completely overshadowed COVID, and a lot of people understandably struggle to come to terms with this reality and the injustice of it.

    With regard to the 'Rwanda' border policy, I don't think people really understand the detail of it. It is the usual thing where oppositions complain about the 'injustice' of a policy whilst proposing zero alternatives. If it works ok, and gets going, then the government will probably ultimately get some credit for it, particularly if it sorts out the illegal boat crossing problem. It will be a case of the government being the 'do-ers' and leading public opinion. Again this will feel like an enormous injustice to those that oppose it, but such is politics.
    We're about to become the thing we oppose - people traffickers. We're going to detail people and deport them to Rwanda where we claim our obligations to these people ends. They can choose to claim asylum in Rwanda, or leave, or die - we simply don't care.

    As detail comes out as to just how little we give a fuck about these people, I can't see how this becomes a vote winner for the Tories, just as the "deport people" policy never was for the New Party's precursors in the BNP. Iain Dale's reaction live on air was instructive and he's far from being an isolated case.

    Simple reality - this won't solve the boats problem. Once dumped in Rwanda the ones seeking the west will simply leave. And come back - as the Home Office have pointed out. Nor can we or do we catch all the boats. Nor are there "zero alternatives" to this - the government refuses to co-operate internationally because of Brexit and refuses to go after scum employers because exploitation of labour is exactly what the JRM Singapore-on-Thames wing of the party had in mind for Brexit.
    Yeah ok. I don't like it either. But what is the alternative solution exactly?
    If the concern is the safety of the people making the trip on dinghies, do we put on ferries to make the trip safe? And how many millions per year do we accept in to the UK to pursue their claims here? If we are at 1,000 per day under the current situation, that is the population of a large town coming to the UK every year. How long can that go on for?

    The brutal logic is that if you make the trip by small boat impossible, then people will stop using this route. In the absence of any other solution, this may be effective.
    It is a masterstroke by Patel, doubly so with her response: "what would you do" (to which there are few answers).

    I think going after the employers must surely be among the top alternatives. I also think I would prefer to process asylum seekers/refugees in the UK rather than Rwanda. It is not beyond the wit of man or remit of govt to ensure that they are processed safely (for the applicant and, by keeping them from "disappearing" into society, for society) before being granted asylum or via enforced return.

    Would it be expensive? Yes. Would it tick the boxes of the UK taking responsibility for handling refugees in a safe, controlled and effective manner? Yes also. I think the public might tolerate the govt spending money in such a way. It would also create jobs in the UK. Why I can see the slogan right now - UK asylum processing jobs for UK asylum processing workers.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,602
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I want everyone to know have a very high QI.

    Some people quite excited about a racial component to it, I note with interest.
    As I said last night Jews have the highest verbal reasoning scores and East Asians the highest numerical reasoning scores, as pretty much all IQ scores prove.

    Denying that is just denying fact
    So you ignore all the evidence that show it isn't a fact and that other variables are in play or do you also believe that Nepal has an average IQ of 43 which makes the average person from Nepal literally an idiot which is plainly nonsense.

    Do you also ignore the evidence I and @rcs1000 gave you about how anyone can be trained to perform 20 points better on an IQ test in the UK or USA.
    We know you have an ideological agenda against IQ tests yes.

    Even a 20 point improvement would not bridge the average 47 IQ points gap between say Japan and Mali

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
    We know you are ideologically flexible in as far as meeting the requirement of supporting any and all Tory leaders when in post, but that doesn't make you free from ideology, either.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    Interesting video. Somewhat bizarrely, there are a couple of racing wheelchairs propped up against the wall in the background.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,197
    MrEd said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    Guto has to earn his salary I suppose but for Joe and all those in other countries scratching their heads here's the unabridged version

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/19/1000-days-of-boris-johnson-as-prime-minister-proroguing-parliament-partygate
    The Guardian - Roger's sense of what is an unbiased source rises to the surface again.
    Almost as if the guardian stands against everything Tories/Johnson do. I imagine you could do similar for other governments.
    By the way, the left love to denigrate Testing and track and trace in the U.K. but it should be pointed out that we have tested more than any comparable country by a long way. Did it help? I think yes, and I give the example of what went wrong with the Wolverhampton lab that gave thousands of false negatives. This led to a surge in cases in the area they were from (south west such as Bath, Bristil, Gloucester etc). At the time I was sceptical that it was just retests, but I think it’s clear there was a real surge as infected people falsely thought they were not infected and spread the disease.
    We have paid billions, but all those ‘free’ lateral flow tests are part of that. So if you are one of those who have tested three times a day, and stockpiled 100 boxes of kits, you’ve had some of that money.
    And we also have the best genomic sequencing in the world.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,998
    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    edited April 2022
    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,602
    MrEd said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    Guto has to earn his salary I suppose but for Joe and all those in other countries scratching their heads here's the unabridged version

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/19/1000-days-of-boris-johnson-as-prime-minister-proroguing-parliament-partygate
    The Guardian - Roger's sense of what is an unbiased source rises to the surface again.
    Unabridged is not a synonym for unbiased, so your potshot at Roger is just stupid.
  • Options

    dixiedean said:

    mwadams said:

    dixiedean said:

    Beaten by wordle.
    First ever loss.
    Devastated.

    How many guesses did you get at the XOXOOO stage? My partner and I both failed, with 8 distinct guesses between us!
    Only two I'm afraid. Could see numerous options like yourself. Error was made earlier when I had the three letters all in the wrong place. Should have ignored them and gone for 5 unused common letters next.
    Got it in 5. Lucky 2nd guess maybe at the XOXOO stage, but there was only one other option I could see at that stage.
    Edit: Mrs P has just failed having had four XOXOO guesses - not a happy bunny. I think I'll quietly go and hide in the shed.
    Got it in 6 (Phew!) but lesson to be learned: When you've got three greens, think very hard about how many possibilities exist before proceeding!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    Eabhal said:

    Got promoted, start new job today.

    For any more tips on how to beat the cost of living crisis, feel free to get in touch.

    Congratulations and best wishes.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,302

    dixiedean said:

    mwadams said:

    dixiedean said:

    Beaten by wordle.
    First ever loss.
    Devastated.

    How many guesses did you get at the XOXOOO stage? My partner and I both failed, with 8 distinct guesses between us!
    Only two I'm afraid. Could see numerous options like yourself. Error was made earlier when I had the three letters all in the wrong place. Should have ignored them and gone for 5 unused common letters next.
    Got it in 5. Lucky 2nd guess maybe at the XOXOO stage, but there was only one other option I could see at that stage.
    Edit: Mrs P has just failed having had four XOXOO guesses - not a happy bunny. I think I'll quietly go and hide in the shed.
    Got it in 6 (Phew!) but lesson to be learned: When you've got three greens, think very hard about how many possibilities exist before proceeding!
    Didn't @Jonathan give the strategy of creating different words with several of the possible missing letters in to narrow down the options.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,395
    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    The camera from Dixons might well be giving 4K video. If you add in the fact that nearly all commercial cameras have CCDs that sensetive to near infrared - they actually have a filter to block this, and it is common for enthusiasts to remove it - well, you have a rather capable camera.

    Using cheap optics shouldn't really matter - for drone operations, pixel peeping* is probably not required.

    *The somewhat derogatory term for photographers who demand perfect focus down to the individual pixel level - even when that means enlarging an image ridiculously to see it.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    “If it works” being the key line. It’s interesting putting this video together with the pictures of the tanks with sandbags and tyres tied to the side. Of the claimed 6000 nuclear warheads, how many functioning ICBM does Russia really possess I wonder…
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    nico679 said:

    The latest defence peddled by the Bozo lapdogs as in Blair got a parking ticket and that’s the same as a FPN for breaking lockdown rules is just going to wind people up .

    When Johnson made the rules he did not expect them to apply to him. That's the way he has lived his life. He has no idea how to dig himself out of this as a result.

  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,335
    Omnium said:

    Stocky said:

    Omnium said:

    dixiedean said:

    Beaten by wordle.
    First ever loss.
    Devastated.

    Snap. Gutted.
    And me. Could have been a 4.

    74 goes/first defeat.
    First loss in 58 for me. A small consolation was that I got quordle in 6 - first time I've done that.
    Got Wordle in 4 tiday, but took a full 9 for Quordle. There is an element of luck...
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    Beaten by wordle.
    First ever loss.
    Devastated.

    This one?

    Wordle 304 2/6

    ⬜⬜⬜🟩🟨
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    Smartarse.
    I always find I do much better on the 2nd Wordle of the day on a new device ;-)
    That was actually quite easy given the seed word. The yellow was the most useful thing it could be, a key vowel was excluded, and I knew from posts on here the solution would be quirky
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    It's easy to find ways to measure intelligence that don't suit this or that individual. I'm certain there isn't a universal measure.

    Oh and anybody who tries to apply these things in bulk to whole groups of people is up to no good.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    Roger said:

    Brandon Lewis in another car crash interview on Radio 4. I thought Corbyn's mob took a lot of beating but I think Johnson's are giving them a run for their money. "Lots of Prime Minister's have fixed penalty tickets" says Brandon

    Really? Which ones?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,536
    edited April 2022
    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Macron's campaign has released a video using Stoke-on-Trent as a warning of what might happen to France if Le Pen is elected.

    https://twitter.com/Macron2022/status/1516045565058072585

    Of course Stoke didn't become like that because of Brexit, it voted for Brexit because it had become like that.
    Less to do with Brexit and more that Stoke is a dump and people can’t escape quickly enough .
    I had a girlfriend from Stoke, once. Very pretty elfin blonde. Helen

    Worked in the record biz

    I have never met someone so desperately keen NOT to ever return to their hometown
    My father grew up in Stoke. He left to go to Uni and never went back. He does not have fond memories of the place
    Me (blockquptes buggered themselves .. ahem:

    So perhaps Macron is going to get some Parliamentary blowback from @Tissue_Price .

    Meanwhile:

    Unemployment in Stoke-on-Trent: 4.9%
    Unemployment in France: 7.4%

    I wonder if Remoaner twitter will be all over this? Judging by Comical Dave and friends, since Macron started screeching about the UK and refugees several weeks ago, des[ite our numbers being remarkbly similar to France's, we are back to full on trolling after a short truce for the start of the invasion of Ukraine.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    My view of this is that it will only be a big problem if Johnson decides to go to court over the fines. If he just pays them, then he will get away with it on the basis that it is part of his unique political style. He has basically been saved by the war in Ukraine, it has completely overshadowed COVID, and a lot of people understandably struggle to come to terms with this reality and the injustice of it.

    With regard to the 'Rwanda' border policy, I don't think people really understand the detail of it. It is the usual thing where oppositions complain about the 'injustice' of a policy whilst proposing zero alternatives. If it works ok, and gets going, then the government will probably ultimately get some credit for it, particularly if it sorts out the illegal boat crossing problem. It will be a case of the government being the 'do-ers' and leading public opinion. Again this will feel like an enormous injustice to those that oppose it, but such is politics.
    We're about to become the thing we oppose - people traffickers. We're going to detail people and deport them to Rwanda where we claim our obligations to these people ends. They can choose to claim asylum in Rwanda, or leave, or die - we simply don't care.

    As detail comes out as to just how little we give a fuck about these people, I can't see how this becomes a vote winner for the Tories, just as the "deport people" policy never was for the New Party's precursors in the BNP. Iain Dale's reaction live on air was instructive and he's far from being an isolated case.

    Simple reality - this won't solve the boats problem. Once dumped in Rwanda the ones seeking the west will simply leave. And come back - as the Home Office have pointed out. Nor can we or do we catch all the boats. Nor are there "zero alternatives" to this - the government refuses to co-operate internationally because of Brexit and refuses to go after scum employers because exploitation of labour is exactly what the JRM Singapore-on-Thames wing of the party had in mind for Brexit.
    Yeah ok. I don't like it either. But what is the alternative solution exactly?
    If the concern is the safety of the people making the trip on dinghies, do we put on ferries to make the trip safe? And how many millions per year do we accept in to the UK to pursue their claims here? If we are at 1,000 per day under the current situation, that is the population of a large town coming to the UK every year. How long can that go on for?

    The brutal logic is that if you make the trip by small boat impossible, then people will stop using this route. In the absence of any other solution, this may be effective.
    This scheme doesn't make crossings impossible, though, does it ?

    The ones best placed to make crossings difficult are the French. If we have them a real incentive - for example agreeing to take a given number of asylum seekers from France for a given reduction in boat crossings - we might begin to address the issue without breaching our international treaty obligations.

    As it is, we are massively less generous than large parts of Europe in the numbers of refugees we accept - and palming off our obligations on a country a fraction of our size which is both far poorer and more overcrowded than we are is utterly immoral.
    It seems to me that the scheme is likely to increase deaths as would-be migrants put themselves in more danger by taking greater risks in order to avoid detection.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    MattW said:

    So perhaps Macron is going to get some Parliamentary blowback from @Tissue_Price

    If Tissue Price ever gave his constituents the impression he thought NuL is part of Stoke, he'd be lucky to save his deposit at the next election.
  • Options
    AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004

    Much as I deplore attempts to turn PB into fillingtimebeforeyoudiewithwordgames.com, sheer frustration forces me to reproduce this.

    Wordle 304 X/6

    ⬛🟩⬛🟩🟩
    ⬛🟩⬛🟩🟩
    ⬛🟩⬛🟩🟩
    ⬛🟩⬛🟩🟩
    ⬛🟩⬛🟩🟩
    ⬛🟩⬛🟩🟩

    Sometimes when you have lots of different options you need to recognise it and put in a word you know to be wrong but which uses many of the other possible letters. The difficulty is recognising it and accepting it will take longer to get but reduce the risk of a wipe out.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,395
    TOPPING said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    My view of this is that it will only be a big problem if Johnson decides to go to court over the fines. If he just pays them, then he will get away with it on the basis that it is part of his unique political style. He has basically been saved by the war in Ukraine, it has completely overshadowed COVID, and a lot of people understandably struggle to come to terms with this reality and the injustice of it.

    With regard to the 'Rwanda' border policy, I don't think people really understand the detail of it. It is the usual thing where oppositions complain about the 'injustice' of a policy whilst proposing zero alternatives. If it works ok, and gets going, then the government will probably ultimately get some credit for it, particularly if it sorts out the illegal boat crossing problem. It will be a case of the government being the 'do-ers' and leading public opinion. Again this will feel like an enormous injustice to those that oppose it, but such is politics.
    We're about to become the thing we oppose - people traffickers. We're going to detail people and deport them to Rwanda where we claim our obligations to these people ends. They can choose to claim asylum in Rwanda, or leave, or die - we simply don't care.

    As detail comes out as to just how little we give a fuck about these people, I can't see how this becomes a vote winner for the Tories, just as the "deport people" policy never was for the New Party's precursors in the BNP. Iain Dale's reaction live on air was instructive and he's far from being an isolated case.

    Simple reality - this won't solve the boats problem. Once dumped in Rwanda the ones seeking the west will simply leave. And come back - as the Home Office have pointed out. Nor can we or do we catch all the boats. Nor are there "zero alternatives" to this - the government refuses to co-operate internationally because of Brexit and refuses to go after scum employers because exploitation of labour is exactly what the JRM Singapore-on-Thames wing of the party had in mind for Brexit.
    Yeah ok. I don't like it either. But what is the alternative solution exactly?
    If the concern is the safety of the people making the trip on dinghies, do we put on ferries to make the trip safe? And how many millions per year do we accept in to the UK to pursue their claims here? If we are at 1,000 per day under the current situation, that is the population of a large town coming to the UK every year. How long can that go on for?

    The brutal logic is that if you make the trip by small boat impossible, then people will stop using this route. In the absence of any other solution, this may be effective.
    It is a masterstroke by Patel, doubly so with her response: "what would you do" (to which there are few answers).

    I think going after the employers must surely be among the top alternatives. I also think I would prefer to process asylum seekers/refugees in the UK rather than Rwanda. It is not beyond the wit of man or remit of govt to ensure that they are processed safely (for the applicant and, by keeping them from "disappearing" into society, for society) before being granted asylum or via enforced return.

    Would it be expensive? Yes. Would it tick the boxes of the UK taking responsibility for handling refugees in a safe, controlled and effective manner? Yes also. I think the public might tolerate the govt spending money in such a way. It would also create jobs in the UK. Why I can see the slogan right now - UK asylum processing jobs for UK asylum processing workers.
    As before -

    1) Make the directors of the company personally liable for the documentation of the workforce - see SOX rules etc.
    2) Make it a 100K fine per offence.
    3) An undocumented worker who gives evidence in a successful prosecution against an employer gets 50K of the fine. Plus a 5 year work permit.

    The main problem will be for the courts dealing with the rush of private prosecutions bought by contingency fee lawyers on behalf of undocumented workers.

    The only question is whether you allow the penalties etc to be retroactive.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,905
    Eabhal said:

    Got promoted, start new job today.

    For any more tips on how to beat the cost of living crisis, feel free to get in touch.

    New boss is WFH and I don't have the replacement laptop.

    Hello PB!
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,602
    edited April 2022

    Nigelb said:

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    My view of this is that it will only be a big problem if Johnson decides to go to court over the fines. If he just pays them, then he will get away with it on the basis that it is part of his unique political style. He has basically been saved by the war in Ukraine, it has completely overshadowed COVID, and a lot of people understandably struggle to come to terms with this reality and the injustice of it.

    With regard to the 'Rwanda' border policy, I don't think people really understand the detail of it. It is the usual thing where oppositions complain about the 'injustice' of a policy whilst proposing zero alternatives. If it works ok, and gets going, then the government will probably ultimately get some credit for it, particularly if it sorts out the illegal boat crossing problem. It will be a case of the government being the 'do-ers' and leading public opinion. Again this will feel like an enormous injustice to those that oppose it, but such is politics.
    We're about to become the thing we oppose - people traffickers. We're going to detail people and deport them to Rwanda where we claim our obligations to these people ends. They can choose to claim asylum in Rwanda, or leave, or die - we simply don't care.

    As detail comes out as to just how little we give a fuck about these people, I can't see how this becomes a vote winner for the Tories, just as the "deport people" policy never was for the New Party's precursors in the BNP. Iain Dale's reaction live on air was instructive and he's far from being an isolated case.

    Simple reality - this won't solve the boats problem. Once dumped in Rwanda the ones seeking the west will simply leave. And come back - as the Home Office have pointed out. Nor can we or do we catch all the boats. Nor are there "zero alternatives" to this - the government refuses to co-operate internationally because of Brexit and refuses to go after scum employers because exploitation of labour is exactly what the JRM Singapore-on-Thames wing of the party had in mind for Brexit.
    Yeah ok. I don't like it either. But what is the alternative solution exactly?
    If the concern is the safety of the people making the trip on dinghies, do we put on ferries to make the trip safe? And how many millions per year do we accept in to the UK to pursue their claims here? If we are at 1,000 per day under the current situation, that is the population of a large town coming to the UK every year. How long can that go on for?

    The brutal logic is that if you make the trip by small boat impossible, then people will stop using this route. In the absence of any other solution, this may be effective.
    This scheme doesn't make crossings impossible, though, does it ?

    The ones best placed to make crossings difficult are the French. If we have them a real incentive - for example agreeing to take a given number of asylum seekers from France for a given reduction in boat crossings - we might begin to address the issue without breaching our international treaty obligations.

    As it is, we are massively less generous than large parts of Europe in the numbers of refugees we accept - and palming off our obligations on a country a fraction of our size which is both far poorer and more overcrowded than we are is utterly immoral.
    It seems to me that the scheme is likely to increase deaths as would-be migrants put themselves in more danger by taking greater risks in order to avoid detection.
    I've yet to see any comment on my idea from those who insist there's no alternative to Patel's.
  • Options
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    My view of this is that it will only be a big problem if Johnson decides to go to court over the fines. If he just pays them, then he will get away with it on the basis that it is part of his unique political style. He has basically been saved by the war in Ukraine, it has completely overshadowed COVID, and a lot of people understandably struggle to come to terms with this reality and the injustice of it.

    With regard to the 'Rwanda' border policy, I don't think people really understand the detail of it. It is the usual thing where oppositions complain about the 'injustice' of a policy whilst proposing zero alternatives. If it works ok, and gets going, then the government will probably ultimately get some credit for it, particularly if it sorts out the illegal boat crossing problem. It will be a case of the government being the 'do-ers' and leading public opinion. Again this will feel like an enormous injustice to those that oppose it, but such is politics.
    We're about to become the thing we oppose - people traffickers. We're going to detail people and deport them to Rwanda where we claim our obligations to these people ends. They can choose to claim asylum in Rwanda, or leave, or die - we simply don't care.

    As detail comes out as to just how little we give a fuck about these people, I can't see how this becomes a vote winner for the Tories, just as the "deport people" policy never was for the New Party's precursors in the BNP. Iain Dale's reaction live on air was instructive and he's far from being an isolated case.

    Simple reality - this won't solve the boats problem. Once dumped in Rwanda the ones seeking the west will simply leave. And come back - as the Home Office have pointed out. Nor can we or do we catch all the boats. Nor are there "zero alternatives" to this - the government refuses to co-operate internationally because of Brexit and refuses to go after scum employers because exploitation of labour is exactly what the JRM Singapore-on-Thames wing of the party had in mind for Brexit.
    Yeah ok. I don't like it either. But what is the alternative solution exactly?
    If the concern is the safety of the people making the trip on dinghies, do we put on ferries to make the trip safe? And how many millions per year do we accept in to the UK to pursue their claims here? If we are at 1,000 per day under the current situation, that is the population of a large town coming to the UK every year. How long can that go on for?

    The brutal logic is that if you make the trip by small boat impossible, then people will stop using this route. In the absence of any other solution, this may be effective.
    The proposals were always clear:
    SUPPLY
    Co-operate with France / the EU / the UNHCR on the movement of refugees and the camps in Calais
    Allow asylum claims to be made from France and elsewhere. There are zero legal ways to claim asylum from some countries and then we complain about boats
    Resource up the MCA, the Border Force and the Police. For all the comments about the boats and the Rwanda press release stopping them, that involves us catching the boats. We aren't catching the boats, hence the knee-jerk SEND IN THE NAVY followed by "why don't the Navy have the right boats for this operation"

    DEMAND
    Enforce the existing laws on employment. Require employers to send documents to HMRC for employees on payroll to confirm legal status
    Clamp down on the illegal employers. A "shop your boss" service with rewards for doing so. Stop the cheating scumbags paying slave wages in cash to avoid taxes

    The alternatives are not "deport to Rwanda" or "let children drown". If the children and their parents had a legal way to claim asylum don't you think they would be doing that already?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,187
    edited April 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    Brandon Lewis in another car crash interview on Radio 4. I thought Corbyn's mob took a lot of beating but I think Johnson's are giving them a run for their money. "Lots of Prime Minister's have fixed penalty tickets" says Brandon

    Really? Which ones?
    Eric Morecambe and Andre Previn (not as PMs, but you know what I mean) spring to mind, so try this for size, "Prime Ministers' have lots of fixed penalty tickets", which in fairness to Brandon might be true, well one in particular.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    Oh indeed, if you were a hobbyist trying to take photos of something a few miles away.

    Rather amusing to see a commercial camera stuck on the end of a model airplane used by the Russian military though, when we’ve been led to believe they have high-tech bespoke reconnaissance drones for this sort of thing. Maybe they’ve been watching McGyver, The A Team or Blue Peter for ideas!

    More ammunition for the paper tiger bear theory.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    I suspect your IQ is well above average @SouthamObserver regardless of what a test says.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,395
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    Oh indeed, if you were a hobbyist trying to take photos of something a few miles away.

    Rather amusing to see a commercial camera stuck on the end of a model airplane used by the Russian military though, when we’ve been led to believe they have high-tech bespoke reconnaissance drones for this sort of thing. Maybe they’ve been watching McGyver, The A Team or Blue Peter for ideas!

    More ammunition for the paper tiger bear theory.
    The interesting bit would be the hardening (or lack of) in the communications setup for the drone - is it encrypted? jam resistant?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,743
    edited April 2022
    Farooq said:

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    It's easy to find ways to measure intelligence that don't suit this or that individual. I'm certain there isn't a universal measure.

    Oh and anybody who tries to apply these things in bulk to whole groups of people is up to no good.
    Gazza was one of the most intelligent footballers ever in terms of football spatial awareness. This is a form of intelligence. Hundreds of thousands of kids spend thousands of hours practising and don't reach anywhere near his level. But he is as daft as a brush in terms of conventional intelligence.

    Equally I know some very, very bright academics who you might not trust to do something simple, like changing a fuse or cook a meal.

    Intelligence is not consistent across different aspects, someone very strong at the type of intelligence measured by IQ tests may or may not be less strong at the types of intelligence that are not well measured by IQ tests.

    Those who fetishize the tests tend to be those who still obsess about which school people went to. I wonder if they still need to convince themselves of how bright they are vs the rest of us. Truly bright people don't care about that and just live their lives.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    edited April 2022
    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    Guto has to earn his salary I suppose but for Joe and all those in other countries scratching their heads here's the unabridged version

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/19/1000-days-of-boris-johnson-as-prime-minister-proroguing-parliament-partygate
    The Guardian - Roger's sense of what is an unbiased source rises to the surface again.
    Unabridged is not a synonym for unbiased, so your potshot at Roger is just stupid.
    It's not, what is stupid is your comment. Sandpit puts the link to a Telegraph article asking why we are so obsessed with Partygate, Roger replies with a link to an article which is just one whinge-fest about all the bad things BJ has done. If it was unabridged, that article might have said some of the positives. Can't have that now, can we?

    It also had little relevance to Sandpit's original article. It was just another excuse to whack off another anti-BJ post.

    Next up - post 1.357,229,845 as to why Brexit is bad.

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,998
    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    “If it works” being the key line. It’s interesting putting this video together with the pictures of the tanks with sandbags and tyres tied to the side. Of the claimed 6000 nuclear warheads, how many functioning ICBM does Russia really possess I wonder…
    The improvised cope cages on Russian armoured vehicles are funny. But in the case of ICBMs, that's where COTS doesn't work. You want hyper-reliability of all components, and extra 1% failures on components soon add up. It's worth going specialised, even if it costs much more.

    But COTS is still great for items such as drones, which you want in large numbers and where it does not matter if you lose them occasionally because of technical failures.

    In a way it reminds me of the GBU-28 'bunker buster' bomb. At the start of Gulf War 1, the Americans realised that the Iraqis had deep bunkers that their traditional munitions could not damage. So in less than three weeks they developed the GBU-28 penetrator bombs. Because of timescales they could not design and construct the casings, so for the first few they just used retired 8-inch artillery barrels...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-28

    If necessity is not quite the mother of invention, then it is a close relative.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,395

    Farooq said:

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    It's easy to find ways to measure intelligence that don't suit this or that individual. I'm certain there isn't a universal measure.

    Oh and anybody who tries to apply these things in bulk to whole groups of people is up to no good.
    Gazza was one of the most intelligent footballers ever in terms of football spatial awareness. This is a form of intelligence. Hundreds of thousands of kids spend thousands of hours practising and don't reach anywhere near his level. But he is as daft as a brush in terms of conventional intelligence.

    Equally I know some very, very bright academics who you might not trust to do something simple, like changing a fuse or cook a meal.

    Intelligence is not consistent across different aspects, someone very strong at the type of intelligence measured by IQ tests may or may not be less strong at the types of intelligence that are not well measured by IQ tests.

    Those who fetishize the tests tend to be those who still obsess about which school people went to. I wonder if they still need to convince themselves of how bright they are vs the rest of us. Truly bright people don't care about that and just live their lives.
    Yes, there is something about the whole MENSA thing which reminds me of people trying to prove they are posh by inventing ridiculously elaborate rules for social etiquette.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    Guto has to earn his salary I suppose but for Joe and all those in other countries scratching their heads here's the unabridged version

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/19/1000-days-of-boris-johnson-as-prime-minister-proroguing-parliament-partygate
    The Guardian - Roger's sense of what is an unbiased source rises to the surface again.
    Almost as if the guardian stands against everything Tories/Johnson do. I imagine you could do similar for other governments.
    By the way, the left love to denigrate Testing and track and trace in the U.K. but it should be pointed out that we have tested more than any comparable country by a long way. Did it help? I think yes, and I give the example of what went wrong with the Wolverhampton lab that gave thousands of false negatives. This led to a surge in cases in the area they were from (south west such as Bath, Bristil, Gloucester etc). At the time I was sceptical that it was just retests, but I think it’s clear there was a real surge as infected people falsely thought they were not infected and spread the disease.
    We have paid billions, but all those ‘free’ lateral flow tests are part of that. So if you are one of those who have tested three times a day, and stockpiled 100 boxes of kits, you’ve had some of that money.
    And we also have the best genomic sequencing in the world.
    The same people moaning about the billions spent are also the same people moaning about the end of free tests...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    edited April 2022
    Department for Education has just 25% of civil servants in the office, as Mogg demands all civil servants return there full time.

    Jacob Rees-Mogg calls for civil servants to return to the office https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61145692

    I'm conflicted about this. In one way I'm surprised that it's only 25% given that they seem to have lots of boozy parties. But in another way it would be much easier for all of us if 100% of the civil servants at the DfE were not in the office at any time ever.

    As for going back in full time, I think the man's a fool. It would be better to look at selling off some of the government office space to see if we could raise some cash to make even a tiny payment be it but a drop in the ocean of our pandemic bills.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Partygate is being handled so badly by Johnson because he has absolutely no idea how the vast majority of people judge issues, standards or behaviours. He has always lived in a very different world where the rules don’t apply to him. But now they do and he’s floundering.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,335
    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    So far as I can see, the media in other countries are not terribly interested in Partygate - they mostly think Boris Johnson is a bit of a joke and are aware that he's in some difficulty, but they're really not covering the details in the press that I dip into (French, German, Danish, Israeli, US). Britain in general doesn't get that much coverage these days.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,296
    dixiedean said:

    Beaten by wordle.
    First ever loss.
    Devastated.

    I've never lost at wordle for the very sound reason I have never played it.
  • Options
    @Farooq

    'But intelligence is about connecting the unconnected, or finding a new angle on something; that makes you clever.'

    Absolutely. That's why you see so little of it on PB. In fact apart from you and me one rarely sees signs of true intelligence here.

    And sometimes I'm not so sure about you... ;)
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,395

    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    “If it works” being the key line. It’s interesting putting this video together with the pictures of the tanks with sandbags and tyres tied to the side. Of the claimed 6000 nuclear warheads, how many functioning ICBM does Russia really possess I wonder…
    The improvised cope cages on Russian armoured vehicles are funny. But in the case of ICBMs, that's where COTS doesn't work. You want hyper-reliability of all components, and extra 1% failures on components soon add up. It's worth going specialised, even if it costs much more.

    But COTS is still great for items such as drones, which you want in large numbers and where it does not matter if you lose them occasionally because of technical failures.

    In a way it reminds me of the GBU-28 'bunker buster' bomb. At the start of Gulf War 1, the Americans realised that the Iraqis had deep bunkers that their traditional munitions could not damage. So in less than three weeks they developed the GBU-28 penetrator bombs. Because of timescales they could not design and construct the casings, so for the first few they just used retired 8-inch artillery barrels...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-28

    If necessity is not quite the mother of invention, then it is a close relative.
    By the time you have stripped all the bits off, and lathed the interior smooth and turned the outside down, the 8 inch gun barrel is just a very nice steel tube with thick walls.

    A long way from using a plastic water bottle as a fuel tank - I would be wondering about the fuel eating the plastic....
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,386
    News from Ukraine is not good. At this rate it's more likely that Putin will press the button before Johnson having to resign.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,536

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    So far as I can see, the media in other countries are not terribly interested in Partygate - they mostly think Boris Johnson is a bit of a joke and are aware that he's in some difficulty, but they're really not covering the details in the press that I dip into (French, German, Danish, Israeli, US). Britain in general doesn't get that much coverage these days.
    I am to follow France24 and DW, and occasionally newspapers.

    France 24 were running "UK up shit creek" type headlines for a number of days. And "first UK PM to break the law".

    I have yet to see whether they run the Stoke on Trent video.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Farooq said:

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    It's easy to find ways to measure intelligence that don't suit this or that individual. I'm certain there isn't a universal measure.

    Oh and anybody who tries to apply these things in bulk to whole groups of people is up to no good.
    Gazza was one of the most intelligent footballers ever in terms of football spatial awareness. This is a form of intelligence. Hundreds of thousands of kids spend thousands of hours practising and don't reach anywhere near his level. But he is as daft as a brush in terms of conventional intelligence.

    Equally I know some very, very bright academics who you might not trust to do something simple, like changing a fuse or cook a meal.

    Intelligence is not consistent across different aspects, someone very strong at the type of intelligence measured by IQ tests may or may not be less strong at the types of intelligence that are not well measured by IQ tests.

    Those who fetishize the tests tend to be those who still obsess about which school people went to. I wonder if they still need to convince themselves of how bright they are vs the rest of us. Truly bright people don't care about that and just live their lives.
    Yes, there is something about the whole MENSA thing which reminds me of people trying to prove they are posh by inventing ridiculously elaborate rules for social etiquette.
    Or people trying to prove they are woke, by inventing rediculously elaborate language rules and expressions for everyday speech.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989
    edited April 2022
    Lastest EMA puts Labour 6 points ahead, 15 seats short of an overall majority under the new proposed boundaries.
    If you assume that half the Green vote goes to Labour, then Labour are just four seats short of an overall majority.

    I'm beginning to wonder if a Labour overall majority at 5 on Betfair is of value.

    This is the projection if half the Green vote goes to Labour.


  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,395
    edited April 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    It's easy to find ways to measure intelligence that don't suit this or that individual. I'm certain there isn't a universal measure.

    Oh and anybody who tries to apply these things in bulk to whole groups of people is up to no good.
    Gazza was one of the most intelligent footballers ever in terms of football spatial awareness. This is a form of intelligence. Hundreds of thousands of kids spend thousands of hours practising and don't reach anywhere near his level. But he is as daft as a brush in terms of conventional intelligence.

    Equally I know some very, very bright academics who you might not trust to do something simple, like changing a fuse or cook a meal.

    Intelligence is not consistent across different aspects, someone very strong at the type of intelligence measured by IQ tests may or may not be less strong at the types of intelligence that are not well measured by IQ tests.

    Those who fetishize the tests tend to be those who still obsess about which school people went to. I wonder if they still need to convince themselves of how bright they are vs the rest of us. Truly bright people don't care about that and just live their lives.
    Yes, there is something about the whole MENSA thing which reminds me of people trying to prove they are posh by inventing ridiculously elaborate rules for social etiquette.
    Or people trying to prove they are woke, by inventing rediculously elaborate language rules and expressions for everyday speech.
    Or people try to prove they are anti-woke by etc etc



    He said: "Once on Caladan, I saw the body of a drowned fisherman recovered. He--"
    "Drowned?" It was the stillsuit manufacturer's daughter.

    Paul hesitated, then: "Yes. Immersed in water until dead. Drowned."

    "What an interesting way to die," she murmered.

    Paul's smile became brittle. He returned his attention to the banker. "The interesting thing about his man was the wounds on his shoulders --made by another fisherman's claw-boots. This fisherman was one of several in a boat -- a craft for traveling on water -- that foundered . . . sank beneath the water. Another fisherman helping recover the body said he'd seen marks like this man's wounds several times. They meant another drowning fisherman had tried to stand on this poor fellow's shoulders in the attempt to reach up to the surface to reach air."

    "Why is this interesting?" the banker asked.

    "Because of an observation made by my father at the time. He said the drowning man who climbs on your shoulders to save himself is understandable -- except when you see it happen in the drawing room." Paul hesitated just long enough for the banker to see the coming, then "And, I should add, except when you see it at the dinner table."

  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Observer, IQ tests measure, very accurately, how good someone is at doing IQ tests.

    It's all those dim Nepalis which condemn HYUFD's comedy map. Thank God the logistics of suporting an Everest climb are so elementary.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,989
    Wordle 304 5/6

    ⬜🟨⬜⬜⬜
    ⬜🟩⬜⬜🟨
    ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
    🟩🟩⬜🟩🟨
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    News from Ukraine is not good. At this rate it's more likely that Putin will press the button before Johnson having to resign.

    Which news is this?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    Oh indeed, if you were a hobbyist trying to take photos of something a few miles away.

    Rather amusing to see a commercial camera stuck on the end of a model airplane used by the Russian military though, when we’ve been led to believe they have high-tech bespoke reconnaissance drones for this sort of thing. Maybe they’ve been watching McGyver, The A Team or Blue Peter for ideas!

    More ammunition for the paper tiger bear theory.
    The interesting bit would be the hardening (or lack of) in the communications setup for the drone - is it encrypted? jam resistant?
    Indeed. If you wanted one military-spec part on what’s otherwise a hobbyist model plane, it would be the communications link to the ground. They wouldn’t want to reveal the location of the controller, nor any video recordings of the mission, to an enemy that (as happened here) picked one up after it landed ‘out’.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,383

    Farooq said:

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    It's easy to find ways to measure intelligence that don't suit this or that individual. I'm certain there isn't a universal measure.

    Oh and anybody who tries to apply these things in bulk to whole groups of people is up to no good.
    Gazza was one of the most intelligent footballers ever in terms of football spatial awareness. This is a form of intelligence. Hundreds of thousands of kids spend thousands of hours practising and don't reach anywhere near his level. But he is as daft as a brush in terms of conventional intelligence.

    Equally I know some very, very bright academics who you might not trust to do something simple, like changing a fuse or cook a meal.

    Intelligence is not consistent across different aspects, someone very strong at the type of intelligence measured by IQ tests may or may not be less strong at the types of intelligence that are not well measured by IQ tests.

    Those who fetishize the tests tend to be those who still obsess about which school people went to. I wonder if they still need to convince themselves of how bright they are vs the rest of us. Truly bright people don't care about that and just live their lives.
    I'd be wary of the claim about being compensated by other types of intelligence. For one thing, what are they? And if they can be identified, they will be measured and what will you say then when it turns out that some people rank low in these new alternative types of intelligence?

    I'd refer you to the Sun's table of international willy sizes posted earlier. It might not be valid but how troubled should we be that some people's are bigger or smaller than others?
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18292969/british-mens-willies-66th-biggest-in-world/
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    Farooq said:

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    It's easy to find ways to measure intelligence that don't suit this or that individual. I'm certain there isn't a universal measure.

    Oh and anybody who tries to apply these things in bulk to whole groups of people is up to no good.
    Gazza was one of the most intelligent footballers ever in terms of football spatial awareness. This is a form of intelligence. Hundreds of thousands of kids spend thousands of hours practising and don't reach anywhere near his level. But he is as daft as a brush in terms of conventional intelligence.

    Equally I know some very, very bright academics who you might not trust to do something simple, like changing a fuse or cook a meal.

    Intelligence is not consistent across different aspects, someone very strong at the type of intelligence measured by IQ tests may or may not be less strong at the types of intelligence that are not well measured by IQ tests.

    Those who fetishize the tests tend to be those who still obsess about which school people went to. I wonder if they still need to convince themselves of how bright they are vs the rest of us. Truly bright people don't care about that and just live their lives.
    Yes but IQ tests measure spatial awareness as well as verbal and numerical reasoning.

    So even Gazza would have his skills reflected in them to some degree
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,743
    Barnesian said:

    Lastest EMA puts Labour 6 points ahead, 15 seats short of an overall majority under the new proposed boundaries.
    If you assume that half the Green vote goes to Labour, then Labour are just four seats short of an overall majority.

    I'm beginning to wonder if a Labour overall majority at 5 on Betfair is of value.

    This is the projection if half the Green vote goes to Labour.


    Backing Labour in a UK GE is a bit like wanting to bowl first in test cricket.

    “When you win the toss – bat. If you are in doubt, think about it, then bat. If you have very big doubts, consult a colleague – then bat.”

    Generally back the Tories. If you are in doubt, back the Tories for a bit less. If you have very big doubts, back NOM.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    Oh indeed, if you were a hobbyist trying to take photos of something a few miles away.

    Rather amusing to see a commercial camera stuck on the end of a model airplane used by the Russian military though, when we’ve been led to believe they have high-tech bespoke reconnaissance drones for this sort of thing. Maybe they’ve been watching McGyver, The A Team or Blue Peter for ideas!

    More ammunition for the paper tiger bear theory.
    Toy remote control tank with torch and camera duct taped to it makes a very serviceable tool for archaeologists.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,536
    Carnyx said:

    One for @TheScreamingEagles and other PB Francophiles.

    SHAFTED BY FRENCH British men’s willies are only the 66th biggest in the world, study finds – & even French fared better
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18292969/british-mens-willies-66th-biggest-in-world/

    That the Sun needed to specify men's willies is presumably some sort of argument in the trans debate but I've no idea on which side.

    Cry bollocks on this report, The Sun! India is supposedly above the British member, but India needed to have smaller condoms because the international standard sized ones, well, you can imagine....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6161691.stm

    (Plus there will be 87 guys on here saying "Well, they never measured MINE!")
    Oh! What a beauty! I've never seen one as big as that before.

    Kenneth Williams sings the Marrow Song
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyTPEVv-hNE
    Photo carefully foreshortened, like "crowd" photos on fairly diffusely populated beaches 2 years back.
    LOL. Self-reported :smile:

    The survey relied on self-reported data from 86 countries to determine the average penis size of a nation and ranked them from biggest to smallest
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    Barnesian said:

    Lastest EMA puts Labour 6 points ahead, 15 seats short of an overall majority under the new proposed boundaries.
    If you assume that half the Green vote goes to Labour, then Labour are just four seats short of an overall majority.

    I'm beginning to wonder if a Labour overall majority at 5 on Betfair is of value.

    This is the projection if half the Green vote goes to Labour.


    131 gains is an awful lot of gains. It's only been achieved four times by any party since 1928 - 1929, 1931, 1945, 1997. A case could be made that all of those were truly exceptional circumstances and perfect storms for the incumbent government (apart from 1931 where it was the government making the gains).

    To put it in context, Starmer is starting from roughly where Cameron did, in every sense, and Cameron could only manage just over a hundred gains.

    I wouldn't be tempted by less than 10-1 as value.

    So given my track record you should probably take the 5-1 :smile:
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,386

    News from Ukraine is not good. At this rate it's more likely that Putin will press the button before Johnson having to resign.

    Which news is this?
    Russia invading Ukraine????
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Barnesian said:

    Lastest EMA puts Labour 6 points ahead, 15 seats short of an overall majority under the new proposed boundaries.
    If you assume that half the Green vote goes to Labour, then Labour are just four seats short of an overall majority.

    I'm beginning to wonder if a Labour overall majority at 5 on Betfair is of value.

    This is the projection if half the Green vote goes to Labour.


    And if half the RefUK vote goes to the Conservatives too Labour would be further away from a majority again, even if still with most seats
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,602

    MrEd said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    Guto has to earn his salary I suppose but for Joe and all those in other countries scratching their heads here's the unabridged version

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/19/1000-days-of-boris-johnson-as-prime-minister-proroguing-parliament-partygate
    The Guardian - Roger's sense of what is an unbiased source rises to the surface again.
    Almost as if the guardian stands against everything Tories/Johnson do. I imagine you could do similar for other governments.
    By the way, the left love to denigrate Testing and track and trace in the U.K. but it should be pointed out that we have tested more than any comparable country by a long way. Did it help? I think yes, and I give the example of what went wrong with the Wolverhampton lab that gave thousands of false negatives. This led to a surge in cases in the area they were from (south west such as Bath, Bristil, Gloucester etc). At the time I was sceptical that it was just retests, but I think it’s clear there was a real surge as infected people falsely thought they were not infected and spread the disease.
    We have paid billions, but all those ‘free’ lateral flow tests are part of that. So if you are one of those who have tested three times a day, and stockpiled 100 boxes of kits, you’ve had some of that money.
    And we also have the best genomic sequencing in the world.
    Which is fine, except that most of the billions were wasted on PCR testing at testing centres, and the follow up track and trace effort.
    In terms of infection prevention far less efficient than lateral flow tests, and much more expensive.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,395
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    Oh indeed, if you were a hobbyist trying to take photos of something a few miles away.

    Rather amusing to see a commercial camera stuck on the end of a model airplane used by the Russian military though, when we’ve been led to believe they have high-tech bespoke reconnaissance drones for this sort of thing. Maybe they’ve been watching McGyver, The A Team or Blue Peter for ideas!

    More ammunition for the paper tiger bear theory.
    The interesting bit would be the hardening (or lack of) in the communications setup for the drone - is it encrypted? jam resistant?
    Indeed. If you wanted one military-spec part on what’s otherwise a hobbyist model plane, it would be the communications link to the ground. They wouldn’t want to reveal the location of the controller, nor any video recordings of the mission, to an enemy that (as happened here) picked one up after it landed ‘out’.
    Yes - I could see an argument for using off-the-shelf model planes with cameras as el-cheapo drones. The equivalent of send a private with a pair of binoculars.... But the worry would be tracking of the communications - more from the controller end. You might not mind if your x hundred £ drone gets blasted, but radiating your position over a period of hours on a battlefield doesn't sound like a good idea.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,296
    ydoethur said:

    Department for Education has just 25% of civil servants in the office, as Mogg demands all civil servants return there full time.

    Jacob Rees-Mogg calls for civil servants to return to the office https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61145692

    I'm conflicted about this. In one way I'm surprised that it's only 25% given that they seem to have lots of boozy parties. But in another way it would be much easier for all of us if 100% of the civil servants at the DfE were not in the office at any time ever.

    As for going back in full time, I think the man's a fool. It would be better to look at selling off some of the government office space to see if we could raise some cash to make even a tiny payment be it but a drop in the ocean of our pandemic bills.

    At my work we have targes of 20% back this month, 40% next and 60% thereafter. I am not sure if that will be about the norm thereafter though. I think that there is no chance of us getting anywhere near 100% again.

    Personally, I find this a mixture of good and bad. Organisations are becoming less responsive to their users, more remote, less personal. OTOH work is becoming a lot more tolerable for many in rather boring jobs and I think that our work life balance is being recallibrated in a positive way.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,743

    Farooq said:

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    It's easy to find ways to measure intelligence that don't suit this or that individual. I'm certain there isn't a universal measure.

    Oh and anybody who tries to apply these things in bulk to whole groups of people is up to no good.
    Gazza was one of the most intelligent footballers ever in terms of football spatial awareness. This is a form of intelligence. Hundreds of thousands of kids spend thousands of hours practising and don't reach anywhere near his level. But he is as daft as a brush in terms of conventional intelligence.

    Equally I know some very, very bright academics who you might not trust to do something simple, like changing a fuse or cook a meal.

    Intelligence is not consistent across different aspects, someone very strong at the type of intelligence measured by IQ tests may or may not be less strong at the types of intelligence that are not well measured by IQ tests.

    Those who fetishize the tests tend to be those who still obsess about which school people went to. I wonder if they still need to convince themselves of how bright they are vs the rest of us. Truly bright people don't care about that and just live their lives.
    I'd be wary of the claim about being compensated by other types of intelligence. For one thing, what are they? And if they can be identified, they will be measured and what will you say then when it turns out that some people rank low in these new alternative types of intelligence?

    I'd refer you to the Sun's table of international willy sizes posted earlier. It might not be valid but how troubled should we be that some people's are bigger or smaller than others?
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18292969/british-mens-willies-66th-biggest-in-world/
    Emotional intelligence is a big one. Women are better at it than men. Men designed the IQ tests.....
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    News from Ukraine is not good. At this rate it's more likely that Putin will press the button before Johnson having to resign.

    Which news is this?
    Russia invading Ukraine????
    Yes, but you were intimating some particularly "new" bad new was pushing Putin towards the button?
  • Options
    kjh said:

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    I suspect your IQ is well above average @SouthamObserver regardless of what a test says.
    Some people are naturally a bit coy about it.

    TSE for example has a brain the size of a planet but prefers people to think he's a duffer, such is his modesty.

    Others are the reverse of course. Think of the Flintknappers you know.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    To answer your question directly, IQ tests measure one's ability to succeed at IQ tests. That's about it. Anybody who thinks they are an objective measure of intelligence, or anything else, is ill-informed.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    One for @TheScreamingEagles and other PB Francophiles.

    SHAFTED BY FRENCH British men’s willies are only the 66th biggest in the world, study finds – & even French fared better
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18292969/british-mens-willies-66th-biggest-in-world/

    That the Sun needed to specify men's willies is presumably some sort of argument in the trans debate but I've no idea on which side.

    Cry bollocks on this report, The Sun! India is supposedly above the British member, but India needed to have smaller condoms because the international standard sized ones, well, you can imagine....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6161691.stm

    (Plus there will be 87 guys on here saying "Well, they never measured MINE!")
    Oh! What a beauty! I've never seen one as big as that before.

    Kenneth Williams sings the Marrow Song
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyTPEVv-hNE
    Photo carefully foreshortened, like "crowd" photos on fairly diffusely populated beaches 2 years back.
    LOL. Self-reported :smile:

    The survey relied on self-reported data from 86 countries to determine the average penis size of a nation and ranked them from biggest to smallest
    So it actually assesses which nation has the biggest whoppers then?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,743

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    To answer your question directly, IQ tests measure one's ability to succeed at IQ tests. That's about it. Anybody who thinks they are an objective measure of intelligence, or anything else, is ill-informed.
    They should include the question "what does this test measure" within the test!
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,998

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    Oh indeed, if you were a hobbyist trying to take photos of something a few miles away.

    Rather amusing to see a commercial camera stuck on the end of a model airplane used by the Russian military though, when we’ve been led to believe they have high-tech bespoke reconnaissance drones for this sort of thing. Maybe they’ve been watching McGyver, The A Team or Blue Peter for ideas!

    More ammunition for the paper tiger bear theory.
    The interesting bit would be the hardening (or lack of) in the communications setup for the drone - is it encrypted? jam resistant?
    Indeed. If you wanted one military-spec part on what’s otherwise a hobbyist model plane, it would be the communications link to the ground. They wouldn’t want to reveal the location of the controller, nor any video recordings of the mission, to an enemy that (as happened here) picked one up after it landed ‘out’.
    Yes - I could see an argument for using off-the-shelf model planes with cameras as el-cheapo drones. The equivalent of send a private with a pair of binoculars.... But the worry would be tracking of the communications - more from the controller end. You might not mind if your x hundred £ drone gets blasted, but radiating your position over a period of hours on a battlefield doesn't sound like a good idea.
    There are already stories that the Ukrainians have learnt this lesson the hard way - DJI drones broadcast their position, so the Russians have used COTS stuff (counter-drone kit bought from DJI) to target wherever the drone took off from - and if you are not careful, the operator.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I want everyone to know have a very high QI.

    Some people quite excited about a racial component to it, I note with interest.
    As I said last night Jews have the highest verbal reasoning scores and East Asians the highest numerical reasoning scores, as pretty much all IQ scores prove.

    Denying that is just denying fact
    So you ignore all the evidence that show it isn't a fact and that other variables are in play or do you also believe that Nepal has an average IQ of 43 which makes the average person from Nepal literally an idiot which is plainly nonsense.

    Do you also ignore the evidence I and @rcs1000 gave you about how anyone can be trained to perform 20 points better on an IQ test in the UK or USA.
    We know you have an ideological agenda against IQ tests yes.

    Even a 20 point improvement would not bridge the average 47 IQ points gap between say Japan and Mali

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
    No I have no ideological objection to IQ test. I have set them and used them myself for many many years. It was part of my job many years ago.

    I have an ideological objection to their misuse which is what you are doing.

    Again you misuse the info I gave you. I said I could increase the IQ of a UK or US citizen by 20 points. A Mali citizen could be increased by much much more, but that involves a proper education.

    Do you really think Africans are that stupid? Do you understand how racist that is? Does it never cross your mind why African Americans score much higher than Africans? Was there a sudden genetic change to their minds or could it just be there are other obvious reasons and that their IQ hasn't changed it is just idiots like you not understanding how IQ tests work.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Covfefe said:

    There’s a Federal election in Australia in a few weeks’ time (May 21). In the past week, the opposition leader has revealed himself to be more gaffe-prone than Biden, the polls have moved and the betting market has shifted dramatically. Could there be an article here?

    Looks like 2019 again and Morrison is doing better/less badly on the personal ratings as HYUFD has pointed out.
    I’m sticking with the opposition win on this one. The 2pp is still a huge swing on last time.

    At the moment.
    No it isn't, the 2PP polls had Labor ahead in 2019 too and were completely wrong.

    Labor's 2PP lead has also fallen as well as its primary lead to almost nothing as Morrison has extended his preferred PM lead
    The big question is have they changed the methodology which contributed to the miss last time?
    I'd be surprised if they haven't.
    A miss last time doesn't mean another one in the same direction.
    Nor does it mean there won't be an overcorrection or an inadequate one.
    Last time it was the Preferred PM figures that were correct, the 2PP numbers were miles off.

    Given again there is such a distortion between the 2 any methodology changes have been minor at most
    Okay. I’ll take the bait and bite. You are slightly over egging it I’m sure.

    At the last election there was a big gap between preferred leaders, but recently it closed up to nothing, since the election called Morrison has had an uptick, but that is all, preferred pm still very close this time.

    Where are you getting it from, I’m getting it from here.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_Australian_federal_election

    If the election voted today, it’s an opposition win or pretty much dead heat. All polls AND preferred PM point to that by my analysis.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989
    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    Lastest EMA puts Labour 6 points ahead, 15 seats short of an overall majority under the new proposed boundaries.
    If you assume that half the Green vote goes to Labour, then Labour are just four seats short of an overall majority.

    I'm beginning to wonder if a Labour overall majority at 5 on Betfair is of value.

    This is the projection if half the Green vote goes to Labour.


    And if half the RefUK vote goes to the Conservatives too Labour would be further away from a majority again, even if still with most seats
    Yes - 14 short of an overall majority.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,007
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I want everyone to know have a very high QI.

    Some people quite excited about a racial component to it, I note with interest.
    As I said last night Jews have the highest verbal reasoning scores and East Asians the highest numerical reasoning scores, as pretty much all IQ scores prove.

    Denying that is just denying fact
    So you ignore all the evidence that show it isn't a fact and that other variables are in play or do you also believe that Nepal has an average IQ of 43 which makes the average person from Nepal literally an idiot which is plainly nonsense.

    Do you also ignore the evidence I and @rcs1000 gave you about how anyone can be trained to perform 20 points better on an IQ test in the UK or USA.
    We know you have an ideological agenda against IQ tests yes.

    Even a 20 point improvement would not bridge the average 47 IQ points gap between say Japan and Mali

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
    No I have no ideological objection to IQ test. I have set them and used them myself for many many years. It was part of my job many years ago.

    I have an ideological objection to their misuse which is what you are doing.

    Again you misuse the info I gave you. I said I could increase the IQ of a UK or US citizen by 20 points. A Mali citizen could be increased by much much more, but that involves a proper education.

    Do you really think Africans are that stupid? Do you understand how racist that is? Does it never cross your mind why African Americans score much higher than Africans? Was there a sudden genetic change to their minds or could it just be there are other obvious reasons and that their IQ hasn't changed it is just idiots like you not understanding how IQ tests work.
    In fairness if your prior points towards desirable hierarchies of humans, you would never bother to think about the impacts of environmental stress on cognitive development.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965

    News from Ukraine is not good. At this rate it's more likely that Putin will press the button before Johnson having to resign.

    Which news is this?
    Russia invading Ukraine????
    Yes, but you were intimating some particularly "new" bad new was pushing Putin towards the button?
    Well. The battle for the Donbas has started in earnest today. Whether that is good or bad news is a moot point.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,999

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    There is a Russian phrase for this sort of thing - инжиниринг стоимости. Lit. "value engineering".

    This can seem strange to Western eyes who are more acculturated to their militaries paying 80 quid for a "mil spec" o-ring.

    I noticed it was all put together with blind rivets too which implies it is hand-made.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I want everyone to know have a very high QI.

    Some people quite excited about a racial component to it, I note with interest.
    As I said last night Jews have the highest verbal reasoning scores and East Asians the highest numerical reasoning scores, as pretty much all IQ scores prove.

    Denying that is just denying fact
    So you ignore all the evidence that show it isn't a fact and that other variables are in play or do you also believe that Nepal has an average IQ of 43 which makes the average person from Nepal literally an idiot which is plainly nonsense.

    Do you also ignore the evidence I and @rcs1000 gave you about how anyone can be trained to perform 20 points better on an IQ test in the UK or USA.
    We know you have an ideological agenda against IQ tests yes.

    Even a 20 point improvement would not bridge the average 47 IQ points gap between say Japan and Mali

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
    No I have no ideological objection to IQ test. I have set them and used them myself for many many years. It was part of my job many years ago.

    I have an ideological objection to their misuse which is what you are doing.

    Again you misuse the info I gave you. I said I could increase the IQ of a UK or US citizen by 20 points. A Mali citizen could be increased by much much more, but that involves a proper education.

    Do you really think Africans are that stupid? Do you understand how racist that is? Does it never cross your mind why African Americans score much higher than Africans? Was there a sudden genetic change to their minds or could it just be there are other obvious reasons and that their IQ hasn't changed it is just idiots like you not understanding how IQ tests work.
    The best argument against this kind of scientific racism, is cricket. The fact that Indians, W Indians and whiteys are competitive with one another at something requiring such a huge range of physical and mental skills is pretty good evidence that we are all God's chillun.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,395

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1513420781073489922?s=21&t=nQ5-6DmLJUWs4NMEPnjgjA

    Did this video get posted yet? A tear down of a Russian drone, showing it to be made of a camera sold in Dixons and a fuel tank made from an Evian bottle.

    Lots of thoughts spring to mind. “Does the US budget really need to be so high?” being one.

    Closely followed by “how can anyone argue with a straight face that the supersonic novel propulsion UAP might be Russian?”.

    Finally “Is a Black Sea Kursk disaster just a matter of time?”.

    That’s rather amusing. Presumably they need to get a bigger Evian bottle - if it landed intact, it likely ran out of fuel.

    As for the “Black Sea Kursk Disaster”, that was last week’s news in Russia. A sailor with a cigarette apparently, then one thing leads to another, and before you know it you’ve got a 12,000 tonne submarine and 450 missing seamen.
    I watched that video. I have zero problem with a simple Canon camera being used in a drone (with the mode select superglued, LOL) - as long as it works, it'll be cost-effective, easy to source and easy to construct. The top-of-water-bottle is slightly more dodgy. But again, if it works...

    COTS is good. You may lose 1% reliability and 5% capability (*), but if COTS means you can make two or three times the number, then you're onto a winner.

    (*) Numbers picked out of my behind.
    Oh indeed, if you were a hobbyist trying to take photos of something a few miles away.

    Rather amusing to see a commercial camera stuck on the end of a model airplane used by the Russian military though, when we’ve been led to believe they have high-tech bespoke reconnaissance drones for this sort of thing. Maybe they’ve been watching McGyver, The A Team or Blue Peter for ideas!

    More ammunition for the paper tiger bear theory.
    The interesting bit would be the hardening (or lack of) in the communications setup for the drone - is it encrypted? jam resistant?
    Indeed. If you wanted one military-spec part on what’s otherwise a hobbyist model plane, it would be the communications link to the ground. They wouldn’t want to reveal the location of the controller, nor any video recordings of the mission, to an enemy that (as happened here) picked one up after it landed ‘out’.
    Yes - I could see an argument for using off-the-shelf model planes with cameras as el-cheapo drones. The equivalent of send a private with a pair of binoculars.... But the worry would be tracking of the communications - more from the controller end. You might not mind if your x hundred £ drone gets blasted, but radiating your position over a period of hours on a battlefield doesn't sound like a good idea.
    There are already stories that the Ukrainians have learnt this lesson the hard way - DJI drones broadcast their position, so the Russians have used COTS stuff (counter-drone kit bought from DJI) to target wherever the drone took off from - and if you are not careful, the operator.
    Interesting if they made that mistake - since in 2014, the Russians were apparently rather good at hitting fixed positions with artillery, cued by intercepted radio transmissions.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,296
    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I want everyone to know have a very high QI.

    Some people quite excited about a racial component to it, I note with interest.
    As I said last night Jews have the highest verbal reasoning scores and East Asians the highest numerical reasoning scores, as pretty much all IQ scores prove.

    Denying that is just denying fact
    So you ignore all the evidence that show it isn't a fact and that other variables are in play or do you also believe that Nepal has an average IQ of 43 which makes the average person from Nepal literally an idiot which is plainly nonsense.

    Do you also ignore the evidence I and @rcs1000 gave you about how anyone can be trained to perform 20 points better on an IQ test in the UK or USA.
    We know you have an ideological agenda against IQ tests yes.

    Even a 20 point improvement would not bridge the average 47 IQ points gap between say Japan and Mali

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
    No I have no ideological objection to IQ test. I have set them and used them myself for many many years. It was part of my job many years ago.

    I have an ideological objection to their misuse which is what you are doing.

    Again you misuse the info I gave you. I said I could increase the IQ of a UK or US citizen by 20 points. A Mali citizen could be increased by much much more, but that involves a proper education.

    Do you really think Africans are that stupid? Do you understand how racist that is? Does it never cross your mind why African Americans score much higher than Africans? Was there a sudden genetic change to their minds or could it just be there are other obvious reasons and that their IQ hasn't changed it is just idiots like you not understanding how IQ tests work.
    The best argument against this kind of scientific racism, is cricket. The fact that Indians, W Indians and whiteys are competitive with one another at something requiring such a huge range of physical and mental skills is pretty good evidence that we are all God's chillun.
    It would be nice if some of the other children let us win occasionally.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I want everyone to know have a very high QI.

    Some people quite excited about a racial component to it, I note with interest.
    As I said last night Jews have the highest verbal reasoning scores and East Asians the highest numerical reasoning scores, as pretty much all IQ scores prove.

    Denying that is just denying fact
    So you ignore all the evidence that show it isn't a fact and that other variables are in play or do you also believe that Nepal has an average IQ of 43 which makes the average person from Nepal literally an idiot which is plainly nonsense.

    Do you also ignore the evidence I and @rcs1000 gave you about how anyone can be trained to perform 20 points better on an IQ test in the UK or USA.
    We know you have an ideological agenda against IQ tests yes.

    Even a 20 point improvement would not bridge the average 47 IQ points gap between say Japan and Mali

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
    No I have no ideological objection to IQ test. I have set them and used them myself for many many years. It was part of my job many years ago.

    I have an ideological objection to their misuse which is what you are doing.

    Again you misuse the info I gave you. I said I could increase the IQ of a UK or US citizen by 20 points. A Mali citizen could be increased by much much more, but that involves a proper education.

    Do you really think Africans are that stupid? Do you understand how racist that is? Does it never cross your mind why African Americans score much higher than Africans? Was there a sudden genetic change to their minds or could it just be there are other obvious reasons and that their IQ hasn't changed it is just idiots like you not understanding how IQ tests work.
    The best argument against this kind of scientific racism, is cricket. The fact that Indians, W Indians and whiteys are competitive with one another at something requiring such a huge range of physical and mental skills is pretty good evidence that we are all God's chillun.
    Indeed so. Too many Amercians, in particular, say ‘race’ when they mean ‘class’.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,602
    Russia erecting new statues of Lenin in occupied Ukraine.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1516029171591430144

    Bizarre.
    Unless you think of him as one of a long line of Russian imperialists.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,383
    The Sun's guide to which days off to book in order to maximise the length of your breaks.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/18294945/bank-holiday-weekends-annual-leave-trick-2022/

    When I last had a job, I did the opposite and would take a day off each week in the latter half of the year but then I was not struggling with taking the family on holiday.
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,386

    News from Ukraine is not good. At this rate it's more likely that Putin will press the button before Johnson having to resign.

    Which news is this?
    Russia invading Ukraine????
    Yes, but you were intimating some particularly "new" bad new was pushing Putin towards the button?
    Reports suggest that many more Russians have gone into Donbas this morning. This suggests Russian regrouping has finished.
    (Donbas keeps trying to autocorrect to Doncaster!)
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    edited April 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I want everyone to know have a very high QI.

    Some people quite excited about a racial component to it, I note with interest.
    As I said last night Jews have the highest verbal reasoning scores and East Asians the highest numerical reasoning scores, as pretty much all IQ scores prove.

    Denying that is just denying fact
    So you ignore all the evidence that show it isn't a fact and that other variables are in play or do you also believe that Nepal has an average IQ of 43 which makes the average person from Nepal literally an idiot which is plainly nonsense.

    Do you also ignore the evidence I and @rcs1000 gave you about how anyone can be trained to perform 20 points better on an IQ test in the UK or USA.
    We know you have an ideological agenda against IQ tests yes.

    Even a 20 point improvement would not bridge the average 47 IQ points gap between say Japan and Mali

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
    To quote the article that you cite:

    "IQ scores typically reflect the quality of education and resources available to people in their local geographic region. Areas of the world with lower IQ scores are typically poorer and less developed, particularly in the area of education, compared to countries with higher IQ scores."

    Which does rather suggest that IQ tests are not a simple measure of intelligence, but rather a lot of other societal influences too.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    Nigelb said:

    Russia erecting new statues of Lenin in occupied Ukraine.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1516029171591430144

    Bizarre.
    Unless you think of him as one of a long line of Russian imperialists.

    Statues of Lenin were actually quite popular in Ukraine - but they were all removed in 2014. Putting them back up is a symbolic act by the Russians, to demonstrate they are ‘back in charge’.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,395

    The Sun's guide to which days off to book in order to maximise the length of your breaks.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/18294945/bank-holiday-weekends-annual-leave-trick-2022/

    When I last had a job, I did the opposite and would take a day off each week in the latter half of the year but then I was not struggling with taking the family on holiday.

    I've noticed quite a few single people doing this over the years.

    One chap I worked with booked a long weekend in a different town in Europe every other week, it seemed.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,296
    dixiedean said:

    News from Ukraine is not good. At this rate it's more likely that Putin will press the button before Johnson having to resign.

    Which news is this?
    Russia invading Ukraine????
    Yes, but you were intimating some particularly "new" bad new was pushing Putin towards the button?
    Well. The battle for the Donbas has started in earnest today. Whether that is good or bad news is a moot point.
    I think it is seriously bad news. It suggests that the Russia has lost meme was, at best, seriously premature. Fighting in open country is going to be very tough for the Ukrainians and they are already surrounded on 3 sides, south, north and east. Supply is going to become a major issue very rapidly. The Ukrainians are well equipped and trained but this is going to be a whole lot harder than taking out pretty much static columns trapped on narrow roads. I hope I am wrong about this.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,383
    EPG said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I want everyone to know have a very high QI.

    Some people quite excited about a racial component to it, I note with interest.
    As I said last night Jews have the highest verbal reasoning scores and East Asians the highest numerical reasoning scores, as pretty much all IQ scores prove.

    Denying that is just denying fact
    So you ignore all the evidence that show it isn't a fact and that other variables are in play or do you also believe that Nepal has an average IQ of 43 which makes the average person from Nepal literally an idiot which is plainly nonsense.

    Do you also ignore the evidence I and @rcs1000 gave you about how anyone can be trained to perform 20 points better on an IQ test in the UK or USA.
    We know you have an ideological agenda against IQ tests yes.

    Even a 20 point improvement would not bridge the average 47 IQ points gap between say Japan and Mali

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
    No I have no ideological objection to IQ test. I have set them and used them myself for many many years. It was part of my job many years ago.

    I have an ideological objection to their misuse which is what you are doing.

    Again you misuse the info I gave you. I said I could increase the IQ of a UK or US citizen by 20 points. A Mali citizen could be increased by much much more, but that involves a proper education.

    Do you really think Africans are that stupid? Do you understand how racist that is? Does it never cross your mind why African Americans score much higher than Africans? Was there a sudden genetic change to their minds or could it just be there are other obvious reasons and that their IQ hasn't changed it is just idiots like you not understanding how IQ tests work.
    In fairness if your prior points towards desirable hierarchies of humans, you would never bother to think about the impacts of environmental stress on cognitive development.
    That is the real issue. Misusing differences in IQ or willy size to construct a table of "better" humans. The other thing that cannot be done is using international comparisons to infer genetic differences.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    News from Ukraine is not good. At this rate it's more likely that Putin will press the button before Johnson having to resign.

    Which news is this?
    Russia invading Ukraine????
    Yes, but you were intimating some particularly "new" bad new was pushing Putin towards the button?
    Reports suggest that many more Russians have gone into Donbas this morning. This suggests Russian regrouping has finished.
    (Donbas keeps trying to autocorrect to Doncaster!)
    That's not going to move the clock any closer to midnight though.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,395
    Nigelb said:

    Russia erecting new statues of Lenin in occupied Ukraine.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1516029171591430144

    Bizarre.
    Unless you think of him as one of a long line of Russian imperialists.


    ...Is there still a Tsar?”

    “Yes, but he is not a Romanoff. It’s another family. He is much more powerful, and much more despotic.”
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    edited April 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Glad it’s not just me!

    Zoe Strimpel in the Telegraph:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/17/sorry-remainiacs-britain-far-laughing-stock-world/

    She’s completely right, that people from other countries are wondering why the PM being given a cake on his birthday is a big story.

    “There is more than a shred of Remainiac venom in the relentless condemnation of Britain still afoot. It’s there in Partygate, a matter so trivial, in the scheme of things, that no other ruling party in the world would be brought to its knees by it. It’s there in the reaction to the Rwanda asylum plan (a policy that has yet to be pulled off without disaster, but which, based on initial reports into what the asylum seekers can expect there, is not as awful and inhumane as the Britain-haters want to believe). And it’s there, mystifyingly, in our handling of Ukraine.

    “Britain’s self-loathing problem hangs itself on whatever is going. In the case of Partygate, it’s a hugely over-egged question of which ministers secretly consumed which foodstuffs in company, where and for how long during lockdown. There is some understandable anger among parts of the electorate over this, but in the main it has simply become an excuse for distorting or drowning out everything else going on. Like trying to come up with a workable border policy. Or our exemplary attempts to save Europe from the grotesque ambition of a malign, nuke-happy Russia.

    “The most embarrassing thing of all about Partygate is that in almost any other country, it wouldn’t even bubble to the surface. This is partly because most places are actually in worse shape than Britain, and next to the unrest and discontent they face, a scandal over cakes and ale would be, well, a luxury. A joke.”

    It's not cakes and ale, as you well know. It's about breaking the law when you are a law-maker and lying to Parliament.
    CD13 said:

    Ms Cyclefree,

    I hesitate to step into a minefield but sodium valproate was known to be toxic many years ago. I can't date the discovery of known teratogenicity but I suspect it was many years ago too.

    All drugs are toxic, and Paracelsus - the original toxicologist - stated centuries ago a truism. "The dose makes the poison," In high doses, oxygen is toxic, as is water. However, the risk/benefit ratio may mean they can still be used with precautions. That is up to the prescriber. In the UK - the GP. Very occasionally, it can he consultant-only. This isn't like the case of thalidomide - testing is much more through nowadays. I'm not medically qualified, but spent half my career in the pharmaceutical industry searching for toxicity in new drug entities

    However, it is up to the medical people to decide the usage. Sodium valproate is very effective at what it does. But Medics err on the side of caution. Despite this, no one is 100% accurate all the time. I'm not suggesting mistakes are never made, but newspaper headlines of 'scandal' are always thrown around. It may be a scandal - I don't know. But it's not unknown for newspapers to spice up their articles.

    The Cumberledge report is worth reading. The toxicity of this drug was known quite some time ago. The issues are the level of disclosure to pregnant woman and, more importantly, the failure to provide compensation, as other countries (France) are doing.

    The Cumberledge report is not just about this issue but about two other medical treatments which caused harm and its conclusions about the failures of the medical authorities to deal properly with risks and the consequences when these become apparent deserve much wider dissemination and consideration than they are getting.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,296
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I want everyone to know have a very high QI.

    Some people quite excited about a racial component to it, I note with interest.
    As I said last night Jews have the highest verbal reasoning scores and East Asians the highest numerical reasoning scores, as pretty much all IQ scores prove.

    Denying that is just denying fact
    So you ignore all the evidence that show it isn't a fact and that other variables are in play or do you also believe that Nepal has an average IQ of 43 which makes the average person from Nepal literally an idiot which is plainly nonsense.

    Do you also ignore the evidence I and @rcs1000 gave you about how anyone can be trained to perform 20 points better on an IQ test in the UK or USA.
    We know you have an ideological agenda against IQ tests yes.

    Even a 20 point improvement would not bridge the average 47 IQ points gap between say Japan and Mali

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
    To quote the article that you cite:

    "IQ scores typically reflect the quality of education and resources available to people in their local geographic region. Areas of the world with lower IQ scores are typically poorer and less developed, particularly in the area of education, compared to countries with higher IQ scores."

    Which does rather suggest that IQ tests are not a simple measure of intelligence, but rather a lot of other societal influences too.
    The alternative, of course, is that a lot of intelligence comes from the stimulation of the mind by professional education in conditions of good nutrition and housing, ie environmental factors rather than potential.
  • Options
    Waiting for my train just outside Girona railway station. The line is raised through the whole city, so no pesky crossings - and the ticket office, shops and café all fit underneath. The bus station is opposite, and underground.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited April 2022
    Are there alternative drugs available for epilepsy ?

    Women of child bearing age need to be informed of the risks of anything potentially teratogenic - with benefits and risks clearly laid out - removing warnings is scandalous.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    It's easy to find ways to measure intelligence that don't suit this or that individual. I'm certain there isn't a universal measure.

    Oh and anybody who tries to apply these things in bulk to whole groups of people is up to no good.
    Gazza was one of the most intelligent footballers ever in terms of football spatial awareness. This is a form of intelligence. Hundreds of thousands of kids spend thousands of hours practising and don't reach anywhere near his level. But he is as daft as a brush in terms of conventional intelligence.

    Equally I know some very, very bright academics who you might not trust to do something simple, like changing a fuse or cook a meal.

    Intelligence is not consistent across different aspects, someone very strong at the type of intelligence measured by IQ tests may or may not be less strong at the types of intelligence that are not well measured by IQ tests.

    Those who fetishize the tests tend to be those who still obsess about which school people went to. I wonder if they still need to convince themselves of how bright they are vs the rest of us. Truly bright people don't care about that and just live their lives.
    Yes but IQ tests measure spatial awareness as well as verbal and numerical reasoning.

    So even Gazza would have his skills reflected in them to some degree
    Bollocks. I can do spacial awareness tests yet I can't kick a football for toffee and I am spectacularly useless at DIY yet I know what to do. I am sure the converse is true.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990

    kjh said:

    I doubt my IQ is above average. It could well be below. I look at those tests and my brain just freezes over. My mind does not work in a way that amenable to taking them. They clearly measure something, but I am not sure exactly what it is.

    I suspect your IQ is well above average @SouthamObserver regardless of what a test says.
    Some people are naturally a bit coy about it.

    TSE for example has a brain the size of a planet but prefers people to think he's a duffer, such is his modesty.

    Others are the reverse of course. Think of the Flintknappers you know.
    Back in the late 40's when my classmates and I were heading towards the old 11+ we were given 'IQ tests' of the sort used in the exam on at least a monthly basis, the idea being that we would understand exactly what answers the test-setters wanted.
    I suspect the people who eventually passed would have done so anyway!
This discussion has been closed.