Before Brexit groups of school children could come on a joint permit and didn’t need a passport . The government refused to continue with this . Would any leaver have a problem with the old scheme continuing ? Did Leavers vote for this .
I very much doubt it . No 10 seems obsessed with putting up hurdles to any sort of cultural exchanges.
Just petty and vindictive .
Brexit was always going to have a long lead time of no gain and some pain. I doubt anyone anticipated quite what would break, but equally some things that people predicted would be bad are fine.
It really is too early to tell whether there is much gain to be had. (Of course there will be some in specific areas)
The tourists will still come, and if the school-children need a passport then perhaps it'll be seen as a greater adventure. Who knows. Too early to tell as I said above.
Is anyone still pretending that Brexit will result in anything beneficial? Even Boris doesn't seem to bother any more.
Well, yes, me. The reasons I voted to leave were very long-term reasons. It'd be a harsh thing if one was constrained by the thinking of one politician.
Care to name one of these 'long-term reasons'? I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm genuinely interested to learn what Brexit achieved other than bolster the career of Boris Johnson.
And Mr N. Farage. Though not Ms R. Davidson or Mr D. Ross.
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
No, No arguing about a piece of wood which may or may not have been somewhere in the first centaury.
We all know how it will tern out HYDF will say one thing somebody else will point out how perposturase it is, HYDF will double down then everybody will pile in, the chat will get boring, and then tomorrow some people will have overstated their crissum of HYDF and apologise and others will give him credit for sticking to his guns, now we don't want that do we.
If you need to argue there's always pineapple on Prize.
But betters still, can somebody agree we me that this shoes the Russians really did not expect to loss this ship?
I think they did some analysis though - if you add up all the bits of the True Cross you send up with enough wood for about 5…
Similarly I think there are several complete bodies of various saints
Before Brexit groups of school children could come on a joint permit and didn’t need a passport . The government refused to continue with this . Would any leaver have a problem with the old scheme continuing ? Did Leavers vote for this .
I very much doubt it . No 10 seems obsessed with putting up hurdles to any sort of cultural exchanges.
Just petty and vindictive .
Brexit was always going to have a long lead time of no gain and some pain. I doubt anyone anticipated quite what would break, but equally some things that people predicted would be bad are fine.
It really is too early to tell whether there is much gain to be had. (Of course there will be some in specific areas)
The tourists will still come, and if the school-children need a passport then perhaps it'll be seen as a greater adventure. Who knows. Too early to tell as I said above.
Is anyone still pretending that Brexit will result in anything beneficial? Even Boris doesn't seem to bother any more.
Well, yes, me. The reasons I voted to leave were very long-term reasons. It'd be a harsh thing if one was constrained by the thinking of one politician.
Care to name one of these 'long-term reasons'? I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm genuinely interested to learn what Brexit achieved other than bolster the career of Boris Johnson.
For me probably the biggest long term advantage is inter jurisdiction regulatory compaction.
That is because different places the UK and the EU in this case, can and sometimes will have different regulations, its possible to observe which are the best regulations. and relevant businesses can migrate there and thrive, when one set of regulations cover too large an area then its too easy for one set of regulations to kill an industry and we don't know what we are missing.
Depressing report about the language sector being devastated by Brexit red tape .
All because no 10 refuses to make it easier for school children from the EU to come to the UK.
Means less furrin being audibly spoken in Home Counties towns and a few further north/west. Result, from a certain point of view.
Wouldn't most foreign school trips have come to London or other centres of heritage and tourism?
My understanding* is they are common in Home Counties towns - near the Continent but cheaper than London. A quick check suggests a number in Margate, Tunbridge Wells, and Brighton - three towns taken at random.
But yes, add places such as Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh too.
*Edit: distinct impression. But IANAE and we do have at least one EFL teacher regular on PB.
OK. I'm no expert, though I did once see seven separate German school parties while walking along London's South Bank with a colleague from that country. One thing we see in London suburbs is school parties staying at the cheaper chain hotels and getting the tube into Central London (see recent threads for a discussion of where that might be).
“We think language schools are worth £35m to the local economy,” said Kevin Boorman, the council’s marketing manager.
“People elsewhere don’t understand that Hastings is the most deprived town in south-east England. The loss of students has an impact on the whole town. We know Hastings is improving and the tourism industry provides entry-level jobs. To lose language students is a massive blow to every generation.”
Huan Japes, membership director of English UK, the trade body for language schools, said 15% of members had closed permanently. “There’s another 15% that are not certain if they’ll see out the year,” he said. “We could be seeing a 30% loss across the country.”
Result!! Fewer furrin languages on the High Streets of the Home Counties. [Edit: not that I approve.]
Does anyone seriously think No 10 would have promoted any contrary policy, in a world where the Welsh are ticked off for speaking "furrin", i.e. the native language of Britain, in Wales?
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
No, No arguing about a piece of wood which may or may not have been somewhere in the first centaury.
We all know how it will tern out HYDF will say one thing somebody else will point out how perposturase it is, HYDF will double down then everybody will pile in, the chat will get boring, and then tomorrow some people will have overstated their crissum of HYDF and apologise and others will give him credit for sticking to his guns, now we don't want that do we.
If you need to argue there's always pineapple on Prize.
But betters still, can somebody agree we me that this shoes the Russians really did not expect to loss this ship?
Your autocorrect is pissed I think.
No, sorry, I'm Dyslectic, and do not put as much effort in to checking my posts as I could, so some mistakes come though.
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
No, No arguing about a piece of wood which may or may not have been somewhere in the first centaury.
We all know how it will tern out HYDF will say one thing somebody else will point out how perposturase it is, HYDF will double down then everybody will pile in, the chat will get boring, and then tomorrow some people will have overstated their crissum of HYDF and apologise and others will give him credit for sticking to his guns, now we don't want that do we.
If you need to argue there's always pineapple on Prize.
But betters still, can somebody agree we me that this shoes the Russians really did not expect to loss this ship?
Your autocorrect is pissed I think.
No, sorry, I'm Dyslectic, and do not put as much effort in to checking my posts as I could, so some mistakes come though.
Good evening
You do very well and I think most of us are aware of your dyslexia
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
Just remember, however bad things get with Boris, it would be worse with Corbyn. Out of NATO, no NLAWs to Ukraine, no special forces in Ukraine, he would be embarrassing us on the world stage with calls for peace and dialogue with Russia. We really dodged a bullet in 2019, thanks largely to the politics of Brexit. Funny how these things go.
That was worth reflecting on at the start, but has no additional impact. Its true and everyone has moved on.
Quick foray into the realm of psychiatry - I sense much of the "but oh god Corbyn would have been worse" sentiment being still advanced at this time when he's long been chip paper is reflexive guilt management from people who voted Con and enabled this disgrace of a PM and don't feel too great about it deep down, now they see clearly who and what he is.
We could call it Having Voted For Boris Derangement Syndrome (HVFBDS) - but we won't because that sort of thing is puerile, demeaning and tedious.
There could also be a 'not brave enough to vote for Boris so spoiled my ballot/voted for labour to avoid upsetting my wife' in 2019 syndrome (NBETVBSSMBVFLTAUMW), which could end up with deep feelings of shame and guilt (following contemplation of what Corbyn may have meant in terms of the conflict in Ukraine), which lead people to vote for Boris/ their local conservative council candidate. Not saying that this will be a statistically significant phenomenon, but it is one that still might exist.
presumably they will have to have got divorced in the meantime as well? I bought Farage's biography a few months ago which seemed to upset my wife . I thought sod it and escalated with highlighting former more hidden copies of The Revolt of the Right (Farage with a pint on the front cover) and A journey by Tony Blair on the bookshelf.
https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1515394868595539968 BREAKING: India reportedly cancels plans to buy 48 Mi-17 V5 helicopters from Russia… … This plan is being linked to India's push to transition towards domestic-made military equipment and is not framed as a rejection of Russia. But the timing of this move, if confirmed, is striking given U.S. pressure over India's Russia ties.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
Why anyone is still pretending Russia is anything other than Nazis with Nukes is beyond me.
Depressing report about the language sector being devastated by Brexit red tape .
All because no 10 refuses to make it easier for school children from the EU to come to the UK.
Means less furrin being audibly spoken in Home Counties towns and a few further north/west. Result, from a certain point of view.
Wouldn't most foreign school trips have come to London or other centres of heritage and tourism?
My understanding* is they are common in Home Counties towns - near the Continent but cheaper than London. A quick check suggests a number in Margate, Tunbridge Wells, and Brighton - three towns taken at random.
But yes, add places such as Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh too.
*Edit: distinct impression. But IANAE and we do have at least one EFL teacher regular on PB.
OK. I'm no expert, though I did once see seven separate German school parties while walking along London's South Bank with a colleague from that country. One thing we see in London suburbs is school parties staying at the cheaper chain hotels and getting the tube into Central London (see recent threads for a discussion of where that might be).
“We think language schools are worth £35m to the local economy,” said Kevin Boorman, the council’s marketing manager.
“People elsewhere don’t understand that Hastings is the most deprived town in south-east England. The loss of students has an impact on the whole town. We know Hastings is improving and the tourism industry provides entry-level jobs. To lose language students is a massive blow to every generation.”
Huan Japes, membership director of English UK, the trade body for language schools, said 15% of members had closed permanently. “There’s another 15% that are not certain if they’ll see out the year,” he said. “We could be seeing a 30% loss across the country.”
Result!! Fewer furrin languages on the High Streets of the Home Counties. [Edit: not that I approve.]
Does anyone seriously think No 10 would have promoted any contrary policy, in a world where the Welsh are ticked off for speaking "furrin", i.e. the native language of Britain, in Wales?
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
Why anyone is still pretending Russia is anything other than Nazis with Nukes is beyond me.
The only reason to doubt is the possibility their nukes might be as useless as the rest of their military.
Depressing report about the language sector being devastated by Brexit red tape .
All because no 10 refuses to make it easier for school children from the EU to come to the UK.
Means less furrin being audibly spoken in Home Counties towns and a few further north/west. Result, from a certain point of view.
Wouldn't most foreign school trips have come to London or other centres of heritage and tourism?
My understanding* is they are common in Home Counties towns - near the Continent but cheaper than London. A quick check suggests a number in Margate, Tunbridge Wells, and Brighton - three towns taken at random.
But yes, add places such as Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh too.
*Edit: distinct impression. But IANAE and we do have at least one EFL teacher regular on PB.
OK. I'm no expert, though I did once see seven separate German school parties while walking along London's South Bank with a colleague from that country. One thing we see in London suburbs is school parties staying at the cheaper chain hotels and getting the tube into Central London (see recent threads for a discussion of where that might be).
“We think language schools are worth £35m to the local economy,” said Kevin Boorman, the council’s marketing manager.
“People elsewhere don’t understand that Hastings is the most deprived town in south-east England. The loss of students has an impact on the whole town. We know Hastings is improving and the tourism industry provides entry-level jobs. To lose language students is a massive blow to every generation.”
Huan Japes, membership director of English UK, the trade body for language schools, said 15% of members had closed permanently. “There’s another 15% that are not certain if they’ll see out the year,” he said. “We could be seeing a 30% loss across the country.”
Result!! Fewer furrin languages on the High Streets of the Home Counties. [Edit: not that I approve.]
Does anyone seriously think No 10 would have promoted any contrary policy, in a world where the Welsh are ticked off for speaking "furrin", i.e. the native language of Britain, in Wales?
Ticked off by whom?
Some selfimportant turd in the street.
So what? I’ve been abused over my southern English accent in Glasgow.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
No, No arguing about a piece of wood which may or may not have been somewhere in the first centaury.
We all know how it will tern out HYDF will say one thing somebody else will point out how perposturase it is, HYDF will double down then everybody will pile in, the chat will get boring, and then tomorrow some people will have overstated their crissum of HYDF and apologise and others will give him credit for sticking to his guns, now we don't want that do we.
If you need to argue there's always pineapple on Prize.
But betters still, can somebody agree we me that this shoes the Russians really did not expect to loss this ship?
I think they did some analysis though - if you add up all the bits of the True Cross you send up with enough wood for about 5…
Similarly I think there are several complete bodies of various saints
This is not really a discussion that I what to go down, but I think, well am pretty certain that the original Quote was by John Calvin during the reformation, that there was enough wood around Crissindom clamming to be the true cross of Christ to rebuild Noah Ark. This was then repeated add-nosism by lots of other reformation people, and the catholic church decided to counter it with the Spanish inquisition and wars of religion. which upset a few people.
A couple of centenaries later, somebody has gone around and measured all of the bits of wood in catholic and Orthodox churches, and the answer is no not really depending on the size of the original cross there is probably less wood totalling up that amount, which does not mean that it all is wood form the cross, or even that any is, but perhaps the Catholics could of listened to there opponent and fact checked his clam instead of killing people, and that might have been better.
However a more modern interpretation of both fragments of the cross and other relics, is that 'God' is everywhere and in everything, and if people feel closer to God by being near an object that other have felt similar then good for them, but its not necessary, and there is now value in trying to verify or not the altentisaty of individual relics.
Before Brexit groups of school children could come on a joint permit and didn’t need a passport . The government refused to continue with this . Would any leaver have a problem with the old scheme continuing ? Did Leavers vote for this .
I very much doubt it . No 10 seems obsessed with putting up hurdles to any sort of cultural exchanges.
Just petty and vindictive .
The issue is one of principle.
Multiple schemes like this - individually small but make people’s lives a bit better - have been proposed by the UK government
The EU has rejected each and every one - life with the UK outside the EU must, in their view, be less pleasant and convenient for everyone (both EU and UK citizens). The UK - quite reasonable IMV - refuses to implement these schemes with reciprocation
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
BTW i am very much the opposite of nationalist - I believe divisions caused by it and the suppression of individual freedom when the "cause" is called upon is revolting but that is not genocide
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
I haven't posted much over the last few days for various reasons, one of which was my son in law’s mother funeral
She married his father in 1957, who was a chief engineer spending a lot of time at sea
She telegraphed him to suggest a day for their wedding, and he telegraphed her back from his ship and said that it should be OK but he was not certain
However, he told her to go ahead and signed off with 'que sera, sera' which became their lifelong motto ( they did marry on the day he planned)
The reason I have referred to this is that I have come to the conclusion that the conservative party is looking at defeat at the next GE but I do not fear Starmer , (though he is rather bland and colourless) but at my wife and my ages it really is a case of 'que sera, sera' for us to
I would just say that apart from rejecting the hard right (Farage) and the hard left (Corbyn), generally I can see positive in some policies of the left, right and very much the centre
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
Before Brexit groups of school children could come on a joint permit and didn’t need a passport . The government refused to continue with this . Would any leaver have a problem with the old scheme continuing ? Did Leavers vote for this .
I very much doubt it . No 10 seems obsessed with putting up hurdles to any sort of cultural exchanges.
Just petty and vindictive .
The issue is one of principle.
Multiple schemes like this - individually small but make people’s lives a bit better - have been proposed by the UK government
The EU has rejected each and every one - life with the UK outside the EU must, in their view, be less pleasant and convenient for everyone (both EU and UK citizens). The UK - quite reasonable IMV - refuses to implement these schemes with without reciprocation
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
I’d say attempting to destroy the idea of being Ukrainian absolutely fits the legal definition.
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
No, No arguing about a piece of wood which may or may not have been somewhere in the first centaury.
We all know how it will tern out HYDF will say one thing somebody else will point out how perposturase it is, HYDF will double down then everybody will pile in, the chat will get boring, and then tomorrow some people will have overstated their crissum of HYDF and apologise and others will give him credit for sticking to his guns, now we don't want that do we.
If you need to argue there's always pineapple on Prize.
But betters still, can somebody agree we me that this shoes the Russians really did not expect to loss this ship?
Your autocorrect is pissed I think.
No, sorry, I'm Dyslectic, and do not put as much effort in to checking my posts as I could, so some mistakes come though.
Many of them are inspired though.
A few days ago you referred to Chancellor Scholtz as a “German pollution”
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
Just remember, however bad things get with Boris, it would be worse with Corbyn. Out of NATO, no NLAWs to Ukraine, no special forces in Ukraine, he would be embarrassing us on the world stage with calls for peace and dialogue with Russia. We really dodged a bullet in 2019, thanks largely to the politics of Brexit. Funny how these things go.
That was worth reflecting on at the start, but has no additional impact. Its true and everyone has moved on.
Quick foray into the realm of psychiatry - I sense much of the "but oh god Corbyn would have been worse" sentiment being still advanced at this time when he's long been chip paper is reflexive guilt management from people who voted Con and enabled this disgrace of a PM and don't feel too great about it deep down, now they see clearly who and what he is.
We could call it Having Voted For Boris Derangement Syndrome (HVFBDS) - but we won't because that sort of thing is puerile, demeaning and tedious.
There could also be a 'not brave enough to vote for Boris so spoiled my ballot/voted for labour to avoid upsetting my wife' in 2019 syndrome (NBETVBSSMBVFLTAUMW), which could end up with deep feelings of shame and guilt (following contemplation of what Corbyn may have meant in terms of the conflict in Ukraine), which lead people to vote for Boris/ their local conservative council candidate. Not saying that this will be a statistically significant phenomenon, but it is one that still might exist.
presumably they will have to have got divorced in the meantime as well? I bought Farage's biography a few months ago which seemed to upset my wife . I thought sod it and escalated with highlighting former more hidden copies of The Revolt of the Right (Farage with a pint on the front cover) and A journey by Tony Blair on the bookshelf.
Incidentally i am splitting up with my wife atm
Sorry to hear that.
Its fine! looking forward to it really - just got to sell the house and daughter off the university!
https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1515394868595539968 BREAKING: India reportedly cancels plans to buy 48 Mi-17 V5 helicopters from Russia… … This plan is being linked to India's push to transition towards domestic-made military equipment and is not framed as a rejection of Russia. But the timing of this move, if confirmed, is striking given U.S. pressure over India's Russia ties.
dont know the politics but logically doesnt that mean Russia has 48 more helicopters ? a bit like when BP gave away 20% stake in Rosneft
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
What’s your definition of “genocidal” if - taken at face value - the above doesn’t justify the term?
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
"The very idea of being Ukrainian has to be erased once and for all."
If that's not a definition of genocide I don't know what is.
Just remember, however bad things get with Boris, it would be worse with Corbyn. Out of NATO, no NLAWs to Ukraine, no special forces in Ukraine, he would be embarrassing us on the world stage with calls for peace and dialogue with Russia. We really dodged a bullet in 2019, thanks largely to the politics of Brexit. Funny how these things go.
That was worth reflecting on at the start, but has no additional impact. Its true and everyone has moved on.
Quick foray into the realm of psychiatry - I sense much of the "but oh god Corbyn would have been worse" sentiment being still advanced at this time when he's long been chip paper is reflexive guilt management from people who voted Con and enabled this disgrace of a PM and don't feel too great about it deep down, now they see clearly who and what he is.
We could call it Having Voted For Boris Derangement Syndrome (HVFBDS) - but we won't because that sort of thing is puerile, demeaning and tedious.
There could also be a 'not brave enough to vote for Boris so spoiled my ballot/voted for labour to avoid upsetting my wife' in 2019 syndrome (NBETVBSSMBVFLTAUMW), which could end up with deep feelings of shame and guilt (following contemplation of what Corbyn may have meant in terms of the conflict in Ukraine), which lead people to vote for Boris/ their local conservative council candidate. Not saying that this will be a statistically significant phenomenon, but it is one that still might exist.
presumably they will have to have got divorced in the meantime as well? I bought Farage's biography a few months ago which seemed to upset my wife . I thought sod it and escalated with highlighting former more hidden copies of The Revolt of the Right (Farage with a pint on the front cover) and A journey by Tony Blair on the bookshelf.
Incidentally i am splitting up with my wife atm
Sorry to hear that.
Its fine! looking forward to it really - just got to sell the house and daughter off the university!
Selling the house off to the university I can understand, but isn't it illegal to sell your daughter as well?
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
What’s your definition of “genocidal” if - taken at face value - the above doesn’t justify the term?
well its the legal definition of it of course - which I am pretty sure does not include rhetoric about saying there is no such thing as ukrainian (or northern Irish or Scottish etc )
https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1515394868595539968 BREAKING: India reportedly cancels plans to buy 48 Mi-17 V5 helicopters from Russia… … This plan is being linked to India's push to transition towards domestic-made military equipment and is not framed as a rejection of Russia. But the timing of this move, if confirmed, is striking given U.S. pressure over India's Russia ties.
Could it be partly because the Indians have noticed how easily the Ukrainian shot done Russian Helicopters?
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
I think given the murder rape etc use of the words "The very idea of being Ukrainian has to be erased once and for all” massively strengthens the argument that the murder rape etc amount to genocide.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon .Most people do not care about ukrainian/russian politics to want it to endanger their and their families lives.
I personally think the sinking of the russian warship (of course it being symbolic and a ship made all the military battle lovers goosh) was a mistake as i think russia was settling for a war in the east of ukraine where a settlement could then have been reached to save face of all and more importantly save a nuclear war
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
I would not call myself a Christian at all anymore but that is sick and offensive. What were they thinking?
I am a Christian - I find it mildly amusing…
Stapling reminds me of an episode in the Stieg Larsson trilogy where the protagonist, a formidable girl, is cornered in a deserted warehouse by an evil giant of a man---who has a condition (congenital analgesia} that he can't feel pain---and manages to multiply staple both his feet to the floor, and then to notify his worst enemies, a motor cycle gang, as to his whereabouts.
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
No, No arguing about a piece of wood which may or may not have been somewhere in the first centaury.
We all know how it will tern out HYDF will say one thing somebody else will point out how perposturase it is, HYDF will double down then everybody will pile in, the chat will get boring, and then tomorrow some people will have overstated their crissum of HYDF and apologise and others will give him credit for sticking to his guns, now we don't want that do we.
If you need to argue there's always pineapple on Prize.
But betters still, can somebody agree we me that this shoes the Russians really did not expect to loss this ship?
I think they did some analysis though - if you add up all the bits of the True Cross you send up with enough wood for about 5…
Similarly I think there are several complete bodies of various saints
I think that’s a slight exaggeration, but some of the saints had a surprisingly large number of knuckles.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
What’s your definition of “genocidal” if - taken at face value - the above doesn’t justify the term?
well its the legal definition of it of course - which I am pretty sure does not include rhetoric about saying there is no such thing as ukrainian (or northern Irish or Scottish etc )
“Genocidal rhetoric” is not the same as an act of genocide, but @Nigelb posted the legal definition just about your response and I’d say there is a prime facie case at least
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
What’s your definition of “genocidal” if - taken at face value - the above doesn’t justify the term?
well its the legal definition of it of course - which I am pretty sure does not include rhetoric about saying there is no such thing as ukrainian (or northern Irish or Scottish etc )
The words do not say there is no such thing, they say we should bring about a future state of affairs in which there will be no such thing. 3 guesses
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
No, No arguing about a piece of wood which may or may not have been somewhere in the first centaury.
We all know how it will tern out HYDF will say one thing somebody else will point out how perposturase it is, HYDF will double down then everybody will pile in, the chat will get boring, and then tomorrow some people will have overstated their crissum of HYDF and apologise and others will give him credit for sticking to his guns, now we don't want that do we.
If you need to argue there's always pineapple on Prize.
But betters still, can somebody agree we me that this shoes the Russians really did not expect to loss this ship?
Your autocorrect is pissed I think.
No, sorry, I'm Dyslectic, and do not put as much effort in to checking my posts as I could, so some mistakes come though.
Many of them are inspired though.
A few days ago you referred to Chancellor Scholtz as a “German pollution”
Did I LOL, that was not deliberate but is funny.
But that reminds me, Germany has in the last 24 hours pledged 1 Billion Euros to buy Arms form Ukraine. I wonder to what extent that is after being shamed by the non-invitation of Chancellor Scholtz to Ukraine?
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
What’s your definition of “genocidal” if - taken at face value - the above doesn’t justify the term?
well its the legal definition of it of course - which I am pretty sure does not include rhetoric about saying there is no such thing as ukrainian (or northern Irish or Scottish etc )
The words do not say there is no such thing, they say we should bring about a future state of affairs in which there will be no such thing. 3 guesses
Before Brexit groups of school children could come on a joint permit and didn’t need a passport . The government refused to continue with this . Would any leaver have a problem with the old scheme continuing ? Did Leavers vote for this .
I very much doubt it . No 10 seems obsessed with putting up hurdles to any sort of cultural exchanges.
Just petty and vindictive .
Brexit was always going to have a long lead time of no gain and some pain. I doubt anyone anticipated quite what would break, but equally some things that people predicted would be bad are fine.
It really is too early to tell whether there is much gain to be had. (Of course there will be some in specific areas)
The tourists will still come, and if the school-children need a passport then perhaps it'll be seen as a greater adventure. Who knows. Too early to tell as I said above.
Is anyone still pretending that Brexit will result in anything beneficial? Even Boris doesn't seem to bother any more.
Well, yes, me. The reasons I voted to leave were very long-term reasons. It'd be a harsh thing if one was constrained by the thinking of one politician.
Remainers are STILL too stupid to understand all this. It’s quite phenomenal
Some Leavers are STILL too stupid to understand that there are NO long term benefits. It’s quite phenomenal
You got five "likes" for this??
Hhahahahahahah
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The tragic, impotent anger of bewildered Remainers will never cease to amuse me. Quite intensely. If you lot had given us a referendum AT ANY POINT from 1990-2016, you could have avoided this, you sad fucks. Suck it up
Instead you pushed the patience of the voting public to an explosive limit, and actually got a vote to LEAVE outright
And what was your reaction to that? To try and annul the Brexit vote, and destroy democracy.
Brilliant, not.
I hope every single person who wanted a "people's vote" suffers a terrible canker of the genitals. You sowed the wind, you reaped a whirlwind
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Just remember, however bad things get with Boris, it would be worse with Corbyn. Out of NATO, no NLAWs to Ukraine, no special forces in Ukraine, he would be embarrassing us on the world stage with calls for peace and dialogue with Russia. We really dodged a bullet in 2019, thanks largely to the politics of Brexit. Funny how these things go.
That was worth reflecting on at the start, but has no additional impact. Its true and everyone has moved on.
Quick foray into the realm of psychiatry - I sense much of the "but oh god Corbyn would have been worse" sentiment being still advanced at this time when he's long been chip paper is reflexive guilt management from people who voted Con and enabled this disgrace of a PM and don't feel too great about it deep down, now they see clearly who and what he is.
We could call it Having Voted For Boris Derangement Syndrome (HVFBDS) - but we won't because that sort of thing is puerile, demeaning and tedious.
There could also be a 'not brave enough to vote for Boris so spoiled my ballot/voted for labour to avoid upsetting my wife' in 2019 syndrome (NBETVBSSMBVFLTAUMW), which could end up with deep feelings of shame and guilt (following contemplation of what Corbyn may have meant in terms of the conflict in Ukraine), which lead people to vote for Boris/ their local conservative council candidate. Not saying that this will be a statistically significant phenomenon, but it is one that still might exist.
presumably they will have to have got divorced in the meantime as well? I bought Farage's biography a few months ago which seemed to upset my wife . I thought sod it and escalated with highlighting former more hidden copies of The Revolt of the Right (Farage with a pint on the front cover) and A journey by Tony Blair on the bookshelf.
Incidentally i am splitting up with my wife atm
Sorry to hear that.
Its fine! looking forward to it really - just got to sell the house and daughter off the university!
Selling the house off to the university I can understand, but isn't it illegal to sell your daughter as well?
https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1515394868595539968 BREAKING: India reportedly cancels plans to buy 48 Mi-17 V5 helicopters from Russia… … This plan is being linked to India's push to transition towards domestic-made military equipment and is not framed as a rejection of Russia. But the timing of this move, if confirmed, is striking given U.S. pressure over India's Russia ties.
Could it be partly because the Indians have noticed how easily the Ukrainian shot done Russian Helicopters?
Ok probably not, but
It’s more that India wants to further develop its indigenous arms industry, and the disadvantages of buying Russian are rapidly coming to outweigh the advantages. And note that the poor performance of Russian kit has also been against other Russian kit operated by Ukraine.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Why do you object to this so much? The context is crucial. Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine out of existence. Make no mistake they tried to invade and seize Kiev and effect regime change. They failed. Now they are settling for trying to seize parts of the east while murdering civilians, raping children, and endless other horrors. Then on the tv they talk about the idea of BeingUkrainian must not be allowed. And you quibble about it not being genocidal talk? You couldn’t be more wrong.
Before Brexit groups of school children could come on a joint permit and didn’t need a passport . The government refused to continue with this . Would any leaver have a problem with the old scheme continuing ? Did Leavers vote for this .
I very much doubt it . No 10 seems obsessed with putting up hurdles to any sort of cultural exchanges.
Just petty and vindictive .
Brexit was always going to have a long lead time of no gain and some pain. I doubt anyone anticipated quite what would break, but equally some things that people predicted would be bad are fine.
It really is too early to tell whether there is much gain to be had. (Of course there will be some in specific areas)
The tourists will still come, and if the school-children need a passport then perhaps it'll be seen as a greater adventure. Who knows. Too early to tell as I said above.
Is anyone still pretending that Brexit will result in anything beneficial? Even Boris doesn't seem to bother any more.
We now elect and dismiss those who rule over us. That was always the primary and overwhelming gain of brexit.
It has happened. It is done. Rejoice
And we did before.
I voted at least 100 times for UVDL to be one of my presidents.
I actually voted against her. I wrote my vote on a piece of recycled paper, which was crayoned with her name and the word NO! quite fiercely inscribed against it, and then I took the slip of paper to a copse in the Forest of Dean and threw it gaily in the air, so the invisible fairies of EU democracy could whisk it by magic breezes to Brussels and show her, so she would step down in shame, as my president
Isn't that how EU democracy works?
Have I got that right?
Happily I may have forgotten some details, seeing as we left
Before Brexit groups of school children could come on a joint permit and didn’t need a passport . The government refused to continue with this . Would any leaver have a problem with the old scheme continuing ? Did Leavers vote for this .
I very much doubt it . No 10 seems obsessed with putting up hurdles to any sort of cultural exchanges.
Just petty and vindictive .
Brexit was always going to have a long lead time of no gain and some pain. I doubt anyone anticipated quite what would break, but equally some things that people predicted would be bad are fine.
It really is too early to tell whether there is much gain to be had. (Of course there will be some in specific areas)
The tourists will still come, and if the school-children need a passport then perhaps it'll be seen as a greater adventure. Who knows. Too early to tell as I said above.
Is anyone still pretending that Brexit will result in anything beneficial? Even Boris doesn't seem to bother any more.
We now elect and dismiss those who rule over us. That was always the primary and overwhelming gain of brexit.
It has happened. It is done. Rejoice
And we did before.
I voted at least 100 times for UVDL to be one of my presidents.
I actually voted against her. I wrote my vote on a piece of recycled paper, which was crayoned with her name and the word NO! quite fiercely inscribed against it, and then I took the slip of paper to a copse in the Forest of Dean and threw it gaily in the air, so the invisible fairies of EU democracy could whisk it by magic breezes to Brussels and show her, so she would step down in shame, as my president
Isn't that how EU democracy works?
Have I got that right?
Happily I may have forgotten some details, seeing as we left
I think we both had the same effect on the outcome!
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Why do you object to this so much? The context is crucial. Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine out of existence. Make no mistake they tried to invade and seize Kiev and effect regime change. They failed. Now they are settling for trying to seize parts of the east while murdering civilians, raping children, and endless other horrors. Then on the tv they talk about the idea of BeingUkrainian must not be allowed. And you quibble about it not being genocidal talk? You couldn’t be more wrong.
well its a legal definition that is not met by what the TV talk said - so its not genocide is it? - I really dont see how I could be more wrong as you say.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Why do you object to this so much? The context is crucial. Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine out of existence. Make no mistake they tried to invade and seize Kiev and effect regime change. They failed. Now they are settling for trying to seize parts of the east while murdering civilians, raping children, and endless other horrors. Then on the tv they talk about the idea of BeingUkrainian must not be allowed. And you quibble about it not being genocidal talk? You couldn’t be more wrong.
well its a legal definition that is not what the TV talk said - so its not genocide is it? - I really dont see how I could be more wrong.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon .Most people do not care about ukrainian/russian politics to want it to endanger their and their families lives…
Nothing like that gets broadcast in Russian TV so consistently without the approval of the state - and it echoes Putin’s own rhetoric. On its own it’s not genocide, but it provides strong evidence of intent. Add the multiple documented actions which meet the descriptions in the genocide convention clauses, and there is a case for genocide charges.
Pointing out what’s in front of your nose is not “fanning the flames”.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Why do you object to this so much? The context is crucial. Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine out of existence. Make no mistake they tried to invade and seize Kiev and effect regime change. They failed. Now they are settling for trying to seize parts of the east while murdering civilians, raping children, and endless other horrors. Then on the tv they talk about the idea of BeingUkrainian must not be allowed. And you quibble about it not being genocidal talk? You couldn’t be more wrong.
well its a legal definition that is not what the TV talk said - so its not genocide is it? - I really dont see how I could be more wrong.
Context, FFS.
well the original poster did not express it in context as you say - they just said it was genocidal talk - well its not is it? As for context I dont know , has Boris said they are committing genocide or the UN? No point willing something that is not technically true
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Why do you object to this so much? The context is crucial. Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine out of existence. Make no mistake they tried to invade and seize Kiev and effect regime change. They failed. Now they are settling for trying to seize parts of the east while murdering civilians, raping children, and endless other horrors. Then on the tv they talk about the idea of BeingUkrainian must not be allowed. And you quibble about it not being genocidal talk? You couldn’t be more wrong.
well its a legal definition that is not what the TV talk said - so its not genocide is it? - I really dont see how I could be more wrong.
Context, FFS.
well the original poster did not express it in context as you say - they just said it was genocidal talk - well its not is it? As for context I dont know , has Boris said they are committing genocide or the UN? No point willing something that is not technically true
It absolutely IS genocidal talk. Denying an entire country the right to be a country. Take a step back and think about it a bit.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
What’s your definition of “genocidal” if - taken at face value - the above doesn’t justify the term?
well its the legal definition of it of course - which I am pretty sure does not include rhetoric about saying there is no such thing as ukrainian (or northern Irish or Scottish etc )
The words do not say there is no such thing, they say we should bring about a future state of affairs in which there will be no such thing. 3 guesses
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
What’s your definition of “genocidal” if - taken at face value - the above doesn’t justify the term?
well its the legal definition of it of course - which I am pretty sure does not include rhetoric about saying there is no such thing as ukrainian (or northern Irish or Scottish etc )
The words do not say there is no such thing, they say we should bring about a future state of affairs in which there will be no such thing. 3 guesses
you had that glass of wine
you had another
you are not and never have been a lawyer
whatever - i never play the man but the ball -
Well, you have had the definition quoted to you. Part of the definition of the crime is an INTENT. Statements by the suspect of how he wants things to be in future are pretty good evidence of intent.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Why do you object to this so much? The context is crucial. Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine out of existence. Make no mistake they tried to invade and seize Kiev and effect regime change. They failed. Now they are settling for trying to seize parts of the east while murdering civilians, raping children, and endless other horrors. Then on the tv they talk about the idea of BeingUkrainian must not be allowed. And you quibble about it not being genocidal talk? You couldn’t be more wrong.
well its a legal definition that is not what the TV talk said - so its not genocide is it? - I really dont see how I could be more wrong.
Context, FFS.
well the original poster did not express it in context as you say - they just said it was genocidal talk - well its not is it? As for context I dont know , has Boris said they are committing genocide or the UN? No point willing something that is not technically true
It absolutely IS genocidal talk. Denying an entire country the right to be a country. Take a step back and think about it a bit.
If that is what the West thinks there can be no justification for not becoming directly involved on the ground.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Why do you object to this so much? The context is crucial. Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine out of existence. Make no mistake they tried to invade and seize Kiev and effect regime change. They failed. Now they are settling for trying to seize parts of the east while murdering civilians, raping children, and endless other horrors. Then on the tv they talk about the idea of BeingUkrainian must not be allowed. And you quibble about it not being genocidal talk? You couldn’t be more wrong.
well its a legal definition that is not what the TV talk said - so its not genocide is it? - I really dont see how I could be more wrong.
Context, FFS.
well the original poster did not express it in context as you say - they just said it was genocidal talk - well its not is it? As for context I dont know , has Boris said they are committing genocide or the UN? No point willing something that is not technically true
It absolutely IS genocidal talk. Denying an entire country the right to be a country. Take a step back and think about it a bit.
If that is what the West thinks there can be no justification for not becoming directly involved on the ground.
To be fair we are, with the exception that all our kit is being used by Ukrainians, not our own troops.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Why do you object to this so much? The context is crucial. Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine out of existence. Make no mistake they tried to invade and seize Kiev and effect regime change. They failed. Now they are settling for trying to seize parts of the east while murdering civilians, raping children, and endless other horrors. Then on the tv they talk about the idea of BeingUkrainian must not be allowed. And you quibble about it not being genocidal talk? You couldn’t be more wrong.
well its a legal definition that is not what the TV talk said - so its not genocide is it? - I really dont see how I could be more wrong.
Context, FFS.
well the original poster did not express it in context as you say - they just said it was genocidal talk - well its not is it? As for context I dont know , has Boris said they are committing genocide or the UN? No point willing something that is not technically true
It absolutely IS genocidal talk. Denying an entire country the right to be a country. Take a step back and think about it a bit.
If that is what the West thinks there can be no justification for not becoming directly involved on the ground.
so they either do not think that or they are pragmatic enough to not end civilisation
According to that French polling people believe that France will be more negatively affected by the sanctions than the Russians???? Seriously? Is there a national crisis of confidence going on. Perhaps they are trying to make a point about how much they feel they are suffering right now?
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
No, No arguing about a piece of wood which may or may not have been somewhere in the first centaury.
We all know how it will tern out HYDF will say one thing somebody else will point out how perposturase it is, HYDF will double down then everybody will pile in, the chat will get boring, and then tomorrow some people will have overstated their crissum of HYDF and apologise and others will give him credit for sticking to his guns, now we don't want that do we.
If you need to argue there's always pineapple on Prize.
But betters still, can somebody agree we me that this shoes the Russians really did not expect to loss this ship?
I think they did some analysis though - if you add up all the bits of the True Cross you send up with enough wood for about 5…
Similarly I think there are several complete bodies of various saints
I think that’s a slight exaggeration, but some of the saints had a surprisingly large number of knuckles.
I agree with the PB-ers who say the Ukrainian invasion looks an awful lot like genocide
It is an attempt to cancel a country. To remove it from history, to eradicate its identity. Is that not genocide?
I understand this is a solemn question, as it then entails quite fierce commitments by us
quite - it will mean WW3 (and the death of 99% of people in the UK) if countries take the law on it literally so lets be careful about it shall we?
Let’s just sacrifice all Ukrainians over your care for the definition, shall we?
well you want WW3 then and nuclear war?
I do not believe for a moment that Russians will commit suicide to “win” Ukraine.
oh good I am not prepared to take the risk personally of your hunch
Are you prepared to sacrifice the Poles too on your hunch that they will?
Poles they are NATO are they not so I doubt Russia will attack.
So the Ukrainians aren’t worth it because of a piece of paper?
well thats the way the world works in reality - Why do Ukraine matter more (for they sure do in many eyes) than say the people of Congo or Rwanda of a few years ago? We are all pragmatic and need to be - When its our self preservation then a piece of paper does matter
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
The (and very very rare) Irish nationalists who talk about eliminating the Protestant culture in NI are regarded by the other 99.999% of Irish people as weird, disgusting fuckwits.
I agree with the PB-ers who say the Ukrainian invasion looks an awful lot like genocide
It is an attempt to cancel a country. To remove it from history, to eradicate its identity. Is that not genocide?
I understand this is a solemn question, as it then entails quite fierce commitments by us
quite - it will mean WW3 (and the death of 99% of people in the UK) if countries take the law on it literally so lets be careful about it shall we?
Some of us think there is a moral obligation to carry out promises we have made in treaties, rather than hiding behind the utterly bizarre assertion that those promises should not be interpreted "literally."
Before Brexit groups of school children could come on a joint permit and didn’t need a passport . The government refused to continue with this . Would any leaver have a problem with the old scheme continuing ? Did Leavers vote for this .
I very much doubt it . No 10 seems obsessed with putting up hurdles to any sort of cultural exchanges.
Just petty and vindictive .
Brexit was always going to have a long lead time of no gain and some pain. I doubt anyone anticipated quite what would break, but equally some things that people predicted would be bad are fine.
It really is too early to tell whether there is much gain to be had. (Of course there will be some in specific areas)
The tourists will still come, and if the school-children need a passport then perhaps it'll be seen as a greater adventure. Who knows. Too early to tell as I said above.
Is anyone still pretending that Brexit will result in anything beneficial? Even Boris doesn't seem to bother any more.
Well, yes, me. The reasons I voted to leave were very long-term reasons. It'd be a harsh thing if one was constrained by the thinking of one politician.
Remainers are STILL too stupid to understand all this. It’s quite phenomenal
Some Leavers are STILL too stupid to understand that there are NO long term benefits. It’s quite phenomenal
You got five "likes" for this??
Hhahahahahahah
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The tragic, impotent anger of bewildered Remainers will never cease to amuse me. Quite intensely. If you lot had given us a referendum AT ANY POINT from 1990-2016, you could have avoided this, you sad fucks. Suck it up
Instead you pushed the patience of the voting public to an explosive limit, and actually got a vote to LEAVE outright
And what was your reaction to that? To try and annul the Brexit vote, and destroy democracy.
Brilliant, not.
I hope every single person who wanted a "people's vote" suffers a terrible canker of the genitals. You sowed the wind, you reaped a whirlwind
I feel for you, I really do. It must be hard to to bear the gradual realisation thatr your beloved project is, in fact, a heap of shite that helps no one.
Your hero Putin must be experiencing similar feelings right now.
I agree with the PB-ers who say the Ukrainian invasion looks an awful lot like genocide
It is an attempt to cancel a country. To remove it from history, to eradicate its identity. Is that not genocide?
I understand this is a solemn question, as it then entails quite fierce commitments by us
quite - it will mean WW3 (and the death of 99% of people in the UK) if countries take the law on it literally so lets be careful about it shall we?
Some of us think there is a moral obligation to carry out promises we have made in treaties, rather than hiding behind the utterly bizarre assertion that those promises should not be interpreted "literally."
well go and fight yourself then if you feel you have that much moral obligation - you are allowed
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
The (and very very rare) Irish nationalists who talk about eliminating the Protestant culture in NI are regarded by the other 99.999% of Irish people as weird, disgusting fuckwits.
I agree with the PB-ers who say the Ukrainian invasion looks an awful lot like genocide
It is an attempt to cancel a country. To remove it from history, to eradicate its identity. Is that not genocide?
I understand this is a solemn question, as it then entails quite fierce commitments by us
quite - it will mean WW3 (and the death of 99% of people in the UK) if countries take the law on it literally so lets be careful about it shall we?
Let’s just sacrifice all Ukrainians over your care for the definition, shall we?
well you want WW3 then and nuclear war?
I do not believe for a moment that Russians will commit suicide to “win” Ukraine.
oh good I am not prepared to take the risk personally of your hunch
Are you prepared to sacrifice the Poles too on your hunch that they will?
Poles they are NATO are they not so I doubt Russia will attack.
So the Ukrainians aren’t worth it because of a piece of paper?
the continued supply of weapons is killing people not the other way around and prolonging things
Why can’t they just surrender and get it over with? Is that your line? Have you seen great treatment that the Russians have shown so far in occupied areas? Would you fucking surrender? For gods sake, take a look at yourself.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Why do you object to this so much? The context is crucial. Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine out of existence. Make no mistake they tried to invade and seize Kiev and effect regime change. They failed. Now they are settling for trying to seize parts of the east while murdering civilians, raping children, and endless other horrors. Then on the tv they talk about the idea of BeingUkrainian must not be allowed. And you quibble about it not being genocidal talk? You couldn’t be more wrong.
well its a legal definition that is not what the TV talk said - so its not genocide is it? - I really dont see how I could be more wrong.
Context, FFS.
well the original poster did not express it in context as you say - they just said it was genocidal talk - well its not is it? As for context I dont know , has Boris said they are committing genocide or the UN? No point willing something that is not technically true
It absolutely IS genocidal talk. Denying an entire country the right to be a country. Take a step back and think about it a bit.
If that is what the West thinks there can be no justification for not becoming directly involved on the ground.
Actually that’s not true. Any duty to act has to include evaluation of the likely consequences.
Supplying Ukraine with sufficient arms to defeat the invasion is a proportionate, and justified response.
I agree with the PB-ers who say the Ukrainian invasion looks an awful lot like genocide
It is an attempt to cancel a country. To remove it from history, to eradicate its identity. Is that not genocide?
I understand this is a solemn question, as it then entails quite fierce commitments by us
quite - it will mean WW3 (and the death of 99% of people in the UK) if countries take the law on it literally so lets be careful about it shall we?
Some of us think there is a moral obligation to carry out promises we have made in treaties, rather than hiding behind the utterly bizarre assertion that those promises should not be interpreted "literally."
well go and fight yourself then if you feel you have that much moral obligation - you are allowed
I am not allowed actually, it would be a criminal offence. The moral obligation does not bind me personally, it binds my country. And yours, assuming you are a citizen of one of the signatories.
According to that French polling people believe that France will be more negatively affected by the sanctions than the Russians???? Seriously? Is there a national crisis of confidence going on. Perhaps they are trying to make a point about how much they feel they are suffering right now?
The French are always miserable. La morosite
It is quite odd
They arguably live in the most beautiful country on earth, with lots of green space and fine landscapes, gorgeous cities and towns (preserved by their tendency to swiftly surrender), a fine if stagnant cuisine, a variety of fairly benign climates, and a culture that is well past its best but is still widely respected, and which can, occasionally, still be world class
OK they lost the worldwide culture/language wars to the hated Anglo-Saxons, but still. I don't quite understand their constant whingeing. They are some of the luckiest people on earth. Yet also perpetually hacked off
Why? Is it the shame of the last century of military defeat? Is it the shame of being overshadowed by other cultures they deem barely equal if not inferior? Is it just some determination to be annoyed, whatever?
back to the Sinking of the Russian Flagship Moskova.
It seems that the Russian Orthodox Church had placed one of there relocks on the ship, a fragment from the cross that Jesus was crucified on. That has presumably gone down with the Ship.
(Please can we not argue about weather it was really a fragment of the cross, HYDF will say one thing and everybody else the other and we will be here all night, so please lets not go down that road. However the significant thing here is the Russian Orthodox Church pronated that it was. and this shoes:
1) The ridiculously close relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Russian State and armed forces. Whatever ones opinion of the separation of church and state, Russia today is at an absolute extreme end of this spectrum.
2) The Russians really did not expect this ship to be sunk.
No, No arguing about a piece of wood which may or may not have been somewhere in the first centaury.
We all know how it will tern out HYDF will say one thing somebody else will point out how perposturase it is, HYDF will double down then everybody will pile in, the chat will get boring, and then tomorrow some people will have overstated their crissum of HYDF and apologise and others will give him credit for sticking to his guns, now we don't want that do we.
If you need to argue there's always pineapple on Prize.
But betters still, can somebody agree we me that this shoes the Russians really did not expect to loss this ship?
I think they did some analysis though - if you add up all the bits of the True Cross you send up with enough wood for about 5…
Similarly I think there are several complete bodies of various saints
I think that’s a slight exaggeration, but some of the saints had a surprisingly large number of knuckles.
Just remember, however bad things get with Boris, it would be worse with Corbyn. Out of NATO, no NLAWs to Ukraine, no special forces in Ukraine, he would be embarrassing us on the world stage with calls for peace and dialogue with Russia. We really dodged a bullet in 2019, thanks largely to the politics of Brexit. Funny how these things go.
That was worth reflecting on at the start, but has no additional impact. Its true and everyone has moved on.
Really? I reckon there are still plenty in Labour who would get us out of NATO even if it meant throwing Ukraine under Russian tank tracks...
You are a bit more Reds under to he bed than even most blue blooded Conservative I suspect. Don't worry, we'll all be fine should the Conservatives lose the next election.
For his manifold faults Starmer has dragged Labour back from being a stop the war interest group, and the Corbynista faction seem to have lost any influence, which is good news.
From a Centrist viewpoint our current Government seem rather extreme and unnecessarily confrontational with anyone who doesn't worship in the Church of St. Boris.His Government have taken us out of plenty of pre- Common Market international arrangements that have made our nation poorer and less secure. Euratom for one. This is why I consider them to be as dreadfully poor as the mercifully defeated Corbyn alternative Government. It is just a shame both Corbyn and Johnson couldn't have lost in parallel in 2019.
More revolting, openly genocidal rhetoric on Russian state TV. The very idea of being Ukrainian, he says, “has to be erased once and for all.” Meanwhile, calling this a war is still punishable by years in Russian prison. https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1514928787527548932
i dont think that is genocidal talk . It is nationalistic of course. Can we stop corrupting the word
I don’t think you could be more wrong. What do you think genocide is?
well its not that ! the equivalent would be an Irish nationalist saying the very idea of being northern irish needs to be erased - its nationalistic talk not genocidal
In the context of sending thousands of troops into a country, murdering, raping, bombing, killing thousands, and saying that that country should not exist, pretty much makes it genocide to me.
well legally its not
There is a very strong prima facie case for genocide. Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met. Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
except whilst all that may be true its not what i said was not genocide (the TV talk ).I dont wnat to especially dance on pin heads here but find fanning the flames of this war very worrying given the world is at stake. There needs to be a negotiation and and end soon
If you are going to nitpick, (b) fits the bill. At best they are gaslighting an entire fucking country. But I think your just being silly.
I am sorry but gaslighting an entire country is not genocide either -
Why do you object to this so much? The context is crucial. Russia is trying to wipe Ukraine out of existence. Make no mistake they tried to invade and seize Kiev and effect regime change. They failed. Now they are settling for trying to seize parts of the east while murdering civilians, raping children, and endless other horrors. Then on the tv they talk about the idea of BeingUkrainian must not be allowed. And you quibble about it not being genocidal talk? You couldn’t be more wrong.
well its a legal definition that is not what the TV talk said - so its not genocide is it? - I really dont see how I could be more wrong.
Context, FFS.
well the original poster did not express it in context as you say - they just said it was genocidal talk - well its not is it? As for context I dont know , has Boris said they are committing genocide or the UN? No point willing something that is not technically true
It absolutely IS genocidal talk. Denying an entire country the right to be a country. Take a step back and think about it a bit.
If that is what the West thinks there can be no justification for not becoming directly involved on the ground.
Actually that’s not true. Any duty to act has to include evaluation of the likely consequences.
Supplying Ukraine with sufficient arms to defeat the invasion is a proportionate, and justified response.
To defeat an invasion, sure. But if genocide is going on should we be slow stepping this? Is allowing a little bit of genocide to go on ok? I feel like there aren't half measures where the g word is coming in.
Before Brexit groups of school children could come on a joint permit and didn’t need a passport . The government refused to continue with this . Would any leaver have a problem with the old scheme continuing ? Did Leavers vote for this .
I very much doubt it . No 10 seems obsessed with putting up hurdles to any sort of cultural exchanges.
Just petty and vindictive .
Brexit was always going to have a long lead time of no gain and some pain. I doubt anyone anticipated quite what would break, but equally some things that people predicted would be bad are fine.
It really is too early to tell whether there is much gain to be had. (Of course there will be some in specific areas)
The tourists will still come, and if the school-children need a passport then perhaps it'll be seen as a greater adventure. Who knows. Too early to tell as I said above.
Is anyone still pretending that Brexit will result in anything beneficial? Even Boris doesn't seem to bother any more.
Well, yes, me. The reasons I voted to leave were very long-term reasons. It'd be a harsh thing if one was constrained by the thinking of one politician.
Remainers are STILL too stupid to understand all this. It’s quite phenomenal
Some Leavers are STILL too stupid to understand that there are NO long term benefits. It’s quite phenomenal
You got five "likes" for this??
Hhahahahahahah
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The tragic, impotent anger of bewildered Remainers will never cease to amuse me. Quite intensely. If you lot had given us a referendum AT ANY POINT from 1990-2016, you could have avoided this, you sad fucks. Suck it up
Instead you pushed the patience of the voting public to an explosive limit, and actually got a vote to LEAVE outright
And what was your reaction to that? To try and annul the Brexit vote, and destroy democracy.
Brilliant, not.
I hope every single person who wanted a "people's vote" suffers a terrible canker of the genitals. You sowed the wind, you reaped a whirlwind
I feel for you, I really do. It must be hard to to bear the gradual realisation thatr your beloved project is, in fact, a heap of shite that helps no one.
Your hero Putin must be experiencing similar feelings right now.
I agree with the PB-ers who say the Ukrainian invasion looks an awful lot like genocide
It is an attempt to cancel a country. To remove it from history, to eradicate its identity. Is that not genocide?
I understand this is a solemn question, as it then entails quite fierce commitments by us
quite - it will mean WW3 (and the death of 99% of people in the UK) if countries take the law on it literally so lets be careful about it shall we?
Let’s just sacrifice all Ukrainians over your care for the definition, shall we?
well you want WW3 then and nuclear war?
I do not believe for a moment that Russians will commit suicide to “win” Ukraine.
oh good I am not prepared to take the risk personally of your hunch
Are you prepared to sacrifice the Poles too on your hunch that they will?
Poles they are NATO are they not so I doubt Russia will attack.
So the Ukrainians aren’t worth it because of a piece of paper?
the continued supply of weapons is killing people not the other way around and prolonging things
Why can’t they just surrender and get it over with? Is that your line? Have you seen great the Russians have been so far in occupied areas? Would you fucking surrender? For gods sake, take a look at yourself.
no, if ukrainian its a hard decision - but I am not and supplying weapons is only prolonging the war and killing people. At some point it has to stop . You really dont want endless years of active war stalemate there. there are a lot of people on here who are used to winning in a virtuous way. Sometimes life cannot be like that and you have to be more pragmatic. Weigh up the bigger risk , weigh up the bigger evil (of an endless unwinnable war that will destroy at least one country )- the sinking of that ship was probably a mistake despite the gooshing it led to amongst militiary battle types on here and elsewhere. What is going to be needed is a localised conflict in the east of Ukraine and then a face saving settlement for both sides - what else can there be ?
It's very revealing that pro-Kremlin figures are already explicitly advocating a withdrawal and what really stands out here is the comment - "do we need to get into another Afghanistan, but even worse?". https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1515412789698912266
I agree with the PB-ers who say the Ukrainian invasion looks an awful lot like genocide
It is an attempt to cancel a country. To remove it from history, to eradicate its identity. Is that not genocide?
I understand this is a solemn question, as it then entails quite fierce commitments by us
quite - it will mean WW3 (and the death of 99% of people in the UK) if countries take the law on it literally so lets be careful about it shall we?
Let’s just sacrifice all Ukrainians over your care for the definition, shall we?
well you want WW3 then and nuclear war?
I do not believe for a moment that Russians will commit suicide to “win” Ukraine.
oh good I am not prepared to take the risk personally of your hunch
Are you prepared to sacrifice the Poles too on your hunch that they will?
Poles they are NATO are they not so I doubt Russia will attack.
So the Ukrainians aren’t worth it because of a piece of paper?
the continued supply of weapons is killing people not the other way around and prolonging things
Why can’t they just surrender and get it over with? Is that your line? Have you seen great the Russians have been so far in occupied areas? Would you fucking surrender? For gods sake, take a look at yourself.
no, if ukrainian its a hard decision - but I am not and supplying weapons is only prolonging the war and killing people. At some point it has to stop . You really dont want endless years of active war stalemate there. there are a lot of people on here who are used to winning in a virtuous way. Sometimes life cannot be like that and you have to be more pragmatic. Weigh up the bigger risk , weigh up the bigger evil (of an endless unwinnable war that will destroy at least one country )- the sinking of that ship was probably a mistake despite the gooshing it led to amongst militiary battle types on here and elsewhere. What is going to be needed is a localised conflict in the east of Ukraine and then a face saving settlement for both sides - what else can there be ?
Well it’s not impossible that Russia actually loses. I ask you this though. If the Russians were in East Anglia would you want Ukrainians sending arms or would you rather we just surrendered? I believe evil needs to be fought. We should help the Ukrainians to resist evil in its purest form.
I see we seem to have another troll in. I´d suggest Rentokil to remove it.
Meanwhile the definition of Genocide is pretty clear: a crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. There is a likelihood but not a certainty that Russian crimes are genocidal in nature.
However, genocidal or not, there is simply no doubt that the Russian army is committing war crimes. It is deliberately targetting civilians and cimmitting crimes against humanity as defined under the 1949 Geneva Conventions and the Rome statute of the International Criminal Court with acts that include:
murder. extermination. enslavement. deportation. mass systematic rape and sexual enslavement in a time of war. other inhumane acts.
The contempt of the civilised world for the brutality of the Russian attack is wholly justified. Given that there is photgraphic evidence of those committing various crimes, I sincerely hope that those responsible who have survived in the Russian armed forces should face a criminal tribunal and those that sent them should be equally condemned.
But let justice run down like water, And righteousness like a mighty stream.
The situation inside Russia itself is getting worse and the repression continues to grow. It is a delirium of absurd lies and wild threats. The country seems to be on the brink of a nervous breakdown with consequences we do not yet understand.
I agree with the PB-ers who say the Ukrainian invasion looks an awful lot like genocide
It is an attempt to cancel a country. To remove it from history, to eradicate its identity. Is that not genocide?
I understand this is a solemn question, as it then entails quite fierce commitments by us
quite - it will mean WW3 (and the death of 99% of people in the UK) if countries take the law on it literally so lets be careful about it shall we?
Some of us think there is a moral obligation to carry out promises we have made in treaties, rather than hiding behind the utterly bizarre assertion that those promises should not be interpreted "literally."
well go and fight yourself then if you feel you have that much moral obligation - you are allowed
I am not allowed actually, it would be a criminal offence. The moral obligation does not bind me personally, it binds my country. And yours, assuming you are a citizen of one of the signatories.
as my name suggests I am not big on being honoured to do what "my" country says
It's very revealing that pro-Kremlin figures are already explicitly advocating a withdrawal and what really stands out here is the comment - "do we need to get into another Afghanistan, but even worse?". https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1515412789698912266
Interesting development, if it can be taken at face value.
The French love to moan especially about their leaders and protesting is a national pastime . They don’t even realize they got off lightly with just a 4% energy price rise. One can only imagine the drama if they were subjected to the extortionate price rises in the UK . Having said all this and having lived there in the past my love for the country and its people remains .
I’ve never understood all this anti French sentiment in the UK .
I agree with the PB-ers who say the Ukrainian invasion looks an awful lot like genocide
It is an attempt to cancel a country. To remove it from history, to eradicate its identity. Is that not genocide?
I understand this is a solemn question, as it then entails quite fierce commitments by us
quite - it will mean WW3 (and the death of 99% of people in the UK) if countries take the law on it literally so lets be careful about it shall we?
Some of us think there is a moral obligation to carry out promises we have made in treaties, rather than hiding behind the utterly bizarre assertion that those promises should not be interpreted "literally."
well go and fight yourself then if you feel you have that much moral obligation - you are allowed
I am not allowed actually, it would be a criminal offence. The moral obligation does not bind me personally, it binds my country. And yours, assuming you are a citizen of one of the signatories.
so your morality is not above committing a criminal offence then? I presume then you are a reservist . Why dont you resign and do your moral duty then if you feel so strong?
Comments
Similarly I think there are several complete bodies of various saints
That is because different places the UK and the EU in this case, can and sometimes will have different regulations, its possible to observe which are the best regulations. and relevant businesses can migrate there and thrive, when one set of regulations cover too large an area then its too easy for one set of regulations to kill an industry and we don't know what we are missing.
You do very well and I think most of us are aware of your dyslexia
BREAKING: India reportedly cancels plans to buy 48 Mi-17 V5 helicopters from Russia…
… This plan is being linked to India's push to transition towards domestic-made military equipment and is not framed as a rejection of Russia. But the timing of this move, if confirmed, is striking given U.S. pressure over India's Russia ties.
A couple of centenaries later, somebody has gone around and measured all of the bits of wood in catholic and Orthodox churches, and the answer is no not really depending on the size of the original cross there is probably less wood totalling up that amount, which does not mean that it all is wood form the cross, or even that any is, but perhaps the Catholics could of listened to there opponent and fact checked his clam instead of killing people, and that might have been better.
However a more modern interpretation of both fragments of the cross and other relics, is that 'God' is everywhere and in everything, and if people feel closer to God by being near an object that other have felt similar then good for them, but its not necessary, and there is now value in trying to verify or not the altentisaty of individual relics.
Multiple schemes like this - individually small but make people’s lives a bit better - have been proposed by the UK government
The EU has rejected each and every one - life with the UK outside the EU must, in their view, be less pleasant and convenient for everyone (both EU and UK citizens). The UK - quite reasonable IMV - refuses to implement these schemes with reciprocation
BTW i am very much the opposite of nationalist - I believe divisions caused by it and the suppression of individual freedom when the "cause" is called upon is revolting but that is not genocide
She married his father in 1957, who was a chief engineer spending a lot of time at sea
She telegraphed him to suggest a day for their wedding, and he telegraphed her back from his ship and said that it should be OK but he was not certain
However, he told her to go ahead and signed off with 'que sera, sera' which became their lifelong motto ( they did marry on the day he planned)
The reason I have referred to this is that I have come to the conclusion that the conservative party is looking at defeat at the next GE but I do not fear Starmer , (though he is rather bland and colourless) but at my wife and my ages it really is a case of 'que sera, sera' for us to
I would just say that apart from rejecting the hard right (Farage) and the hard left (Corbyn), generally I can see positive in some policies of the left, right and very much the centre
A few days ago you referred to Chancellor Scholtz as a “German pollution”
If that's not a definition of genocide I don't know what is.
Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The intent to destroy Ukraine as a nation is pretty clear, and at least four of those five tests have been met.
Whether a genocide case would be proven is an open question, but to say that “it isn’t genocide, legally” is just incorrect.
Note that some of Hitler’s crew were prosecuted under genocide for their actions in destroying the Czechoslovakian state. Separately from the Holocaust charges.
Ok probably not, but
I personally think the sinking of the russian warship (of course it being symbolic and a ship made all the military battle lovers goosh) was a mistake as i think russia was settling for a war in the east of ukraine where a settlement could then have been reached to save face of all and more importantly save a nuclear war
But I think your just being silly.
you had that glass of wine
you had another
you are not and never have been a lawyer
But that reminds me, Germany has in the last 24 hours pledged 1 Billion Euros to buy Arms form Ukraine. I wonder to what extent that is after being shamed by the non-invitation of Chancellor Scholtz to Ukraine?
His funeral was held today in StPetersburg
8th Army was stationed near Mykolayiv, where its commander LtGen Andrey Mordvichev was killed in mid-March
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1515358532853551113
Hhahahahahahah
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The tragic, impotent anger of bewildered Remainers will never cease to amuse me. Quite intensely. If you lot had given us a referendum AT ANY POINT from 1990-2016, you could have avoided this, you sad fucks. Suck it up
Instead you pushed the patience of the voting public to an explosive limit, and actually got a vote to LEAVE outright
And what was your reaction to that? To try and annul the Brexit vote, and destroy democracy.
Brilliant, not.
I hope every single person who wanted a "people's vote" suffers a terrible canker of the genitals. You sowed the wind, you reaped a whirlwind
And note that the poor performance of Russian kit has also been against other Russian kit operated by Ukraine.
Isn't that how EU democracy works?
Have I got that right?
Happily I may have forgotten some details, seeing as we left
Add the multiple documented actions which meet the descriptions in the genocide convention clauses, and there is a case for genocide charges.
Pointing out what’s in front of your nose is not “fanning the flames”.
It is an attempt to cancel a country. To remove it from history, to eradicate its identity. Is that not genocide?
I understand this is a solemn question, as it then entails quite fierce commitments by us
Your hero Putin must be experiencing similar feelings right now.
For gods sake, take a look at yourself.
Any duty to act has to include evaluation of the likely consequences.
Supplying Ukraine with sufficient arms to defeat the invasion is a proportionate, and justified response.
It is quite odd
They arguably live in the most beautiful country on earth, with lots of green space and fine landscapes, gorgeous cities and towns (preserved by their tendency to swiftly surrender), a fine if stagnant cuisine, a variety of fairly benign climates, and a culture that is well past its best but is still widely respected, and which can, occasionally, still be world class
OK they lost the worldwide culture/language wars to the hated Anglo-Saxons, but still. I don't quite understand their constant whingeing. They are some of the luckiest people on earth. Yet also perpetually hacked off
Why? Is it the shame of the last century of military defeat? Is it the shame of being overshadowed by other cultures they deem barely equal if not inferior? Is it just some determination to be annoyed, whatever?
For his manifold faults Starmer has dragged Labour back from being a stop the war interest group, and the Corbynista faction seem to have lost any influence, which is good news.
From a Centrist viewpoint our current Government seem rather extreme and unnecessarily confrontational with anyone who doesn't worship in the Church of St. Boris.His Government have taken us out of plenty of pre- Common Market international arrangements that have made our nation poorer and less secure. Euratom for one. This is why I consider them to be as dreadfully poor as the mercifully defeated Corbyn alternative Government. It is just a shame both Corbyn and Johnson couldn't have lost in parallel in 2019.
I believe evil needs to be fought. We should help the Ukrainians to resist evil in its purest form.
Meanwhile the definition of Genocide is pretty clear: a crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. There is a likelihood but not a certainty that Russian crimes are genocidal in nature.
However, genocidal or not, there is simply no doubt that the Russian army is committing war crimes. It is deliberately targetting civilians and cimmitting crimes against humanity as defined under the 1949 Geneva Conventions and the Rome statute of the International Criminal Court with acts that include:
murder.
extermination.
enslavement.
deportation.
mass systematic rape and sexual enslavement in a time of war.
other inhumane acts.
The contempt of the civilised world for the brutality of the Russian attack is wholly justified. Given that there is photgraphic evidence of those committing various crimes, I sincerely hope that those responsible who have survived in the Russian armed forces should face a criminal tribunal and those that sent them should be equally condemned.
But let justice run down like water, And righteousness like a mighty stream.
The situation inside Russia itself is getting worse and the repression continues to grow. It is a delirium of absurd lies and wild threats. The country seems to be on the brink of a nervous breakdown with consequences we do not yet understand.
🌹LAB: 43% (+3)
🌳CON: 32% (-2)
🔶LDM: 9% (-1)
via, @DeltapollUK • Changes w/08-11/03
@bigjohnowls please explain
Where did this one come from? I agree with you, but why did you post it?😀
I’ve never understood all this anti French sentiment in the UK .
Disastrous poll for the Tories, at what point will we discuss a Labour landslide?