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A Wakefield by-election looking a distinct possibility – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs

    Hang on though, wasn't Khan found guilty by a jury?
    Having read some fascinating Barrister memoirs recently it is amazing how prosectors will go to trial, and juries convict, on some pretty thin evidence sometimes. But if Blunt is going out that strong he needs to base it more than he is, and he damn well better be right.
  • carnforth said:

    Best dinner yet.

    I decided to stay at my hotel to eat. Well.. I didn’t really decide; I fell asleep after my beer earlier and woke up to not many options nearby. I was just in time to get into the hotel restaurant. I had to go for the set menu which worked out rather well.

    Started with beef carpaccio, onions and capers. The main course was mackerel and another white fish (the lovely Italian waitress and I couldn’t work out what it’s called in English even with the help of our phones) with black rice and a creamy mustard sauce. Dessert (which I’m still eating!) is a sort of chocolate granola with roasted pear, a rich chocolate mousse and mascarpone. I’ve been washing it all down with a rather splendid bottle of local Roussillon white.





    Do you not find carpaccio bland? - I mean the meat itself not the gubbins with it. Perhaps I have been having low-quality carpaccio…
    I have had rather bland carpaccio before, but this had really good flavour even without the onions and capers. I suspect it might have been from a local mountain cow, like the ones I saw yesterday.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,118
    BREAKING: Philadelphia reimposes indoor mask mandate, first major U.S. city to do so
    https://twitter.com/medriva/status/1513579838342377473
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,035
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs
    I dislike a categorical statement of a miscarriage of justice without enough detail to allow me to come to a view as to whether I agree. It reminds me of the protestations made in defence of various convicted criminals by members of their family - it feels as though the defence is because of his friendship with the individual and not the facts of the case.

    But we'll see. The appeal will no doubt be made and the details reported.

    There's quite a long tradition of MPs supporting campaigns related to miscarriages of justice, but not normally involving the conviction of a fellow MP.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,733
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs

    Hang on though, wasn't Khan found guilty by a jury?
    Having read some fascinating Barrister memoirs recently it is amazing how prosectors will go to trial, and juries convict, on some pretty thin evidence sometimes. But if Blunt is going out that strong he needs to base it more than he is, and he damn well better be right.
    Which is my point, albeit badly expressed. If there is evidence that invalidates the verdict, fine. Otherwise I’d keep my mouth shut on the day of the verdict and support my friend in private.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,290
    " “This is going to be a large scale battle with hundreds of tanks and fighting vehicles — it’s going to be extremely brutal,” said Franz-Stefan Gady, a research fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London."

    "Frederick W. Kagan, the director of the Critical Threats project at the American Enterprise Institute:

    “In my mind, it’s a tossup.” "


    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/11/world/ukraine-russia-war-news
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,231

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs

    Hang on though, wasn't Khan found guilty by a jury?
    Yes he was.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,738

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.

    There are aspects to this. I'd like to think of myself as fairly (not abnormally) intelligent, fairly open-minded, and fairly open to new ideas. Which is why I'm on PB. ;) I'm also *amazingly* attractive, and can surpass Gimpo (*) in the bedroom department.

    I'd like to think I'd make a good MP. I don't have a particular love of money, and no particular ideology (aside from a general feeling of let people be what they want to be, as long as they do not hurt others.)

    But there is no way I'd ever become an MP. And for that reason I have an instinctive admiration for those who put themselves forward for the role. But I do fear that it does attract an above-average proportion of ner-do-wells on either side of the political divide. It's a power thing.

    (*) Of KLF fame.
    In some ways I'd love to contribute to politics, now that I actually know stuff & have some knowledge and experience to offer. But I'd hate the effect on my family and, frankly, it's all hypothetical because (a) I can barely find a party to vote for let alone represent and (b) there is NFW any party would take a bolshie woman like me.

    I could almost certainly be more useful elsewhere.

    When I studied politics at university the students were roughly divided into those who took it seriously and went into politics (they were all weird in some way and some you'd cross the road to avoid so odd were they) and others who were just interested in it intellectually. Whenever I see politicians trying to show how like us they are, I always remember the weird loons from uni days and go ..... hmmm....

    Not sure how we get better ones. But on the day that David Amess's murderer is convicted, it is worth remembering that many MPs are, however odd they may be, in it to serve the public.

    May the poor man rest in peace and his family find some consolation in justice finally having been done.
    Which is why I've always said I quite admire those who stand to be an MP, of whatever party. I wouldn't want myself - or my family - put through that scrutiny. And I don't have anything particularly to hide (and I believe the same for my family).

    However, I do think that power can attract both angels and demons, and politics is, in a way, the ultimate power. I can see why politics might appeal to ner-do-wells, as much as it does to the angels.

    I'd also add that IME at uni the lawyers were the weird loons. Even worse than architects (fx: shudders at mentioning the word...) And I say that as someone who studied engineering... ;)
    I know it seems odd, but what struck me in Parliament was how normal almost everyone was. OK, I have my quirky streaks, but my colleagues in all parties were mostly more like everyone else that I knew outside politics. Many were a bit taken aback to be there at all (it was 1997 so lots of us hadn't expected to win) but we settled down and had fun in the early years with a sense of achievement at getting in and helping what we felt was a good cause.

    Unusually interested in politics, obviously, some drinkers, and the usual mix of good, bad and so-so home lives, but very few actual weirdos.
    I can see that. But the problem is that both the angels and demons can hide themselves well. I bet no-one in parliament - not a single one of his colleagues of whatever party - knew about Imran Khan's crimes. It would not surprise me if none had any idea of his predilections.

    This is made worse by two factors: even demons can do good acts, especially if the acts self-serve their own interests. A classic example being Jimmy Saville's charity works. And the fact that partisanship means it is easy to think good of people in your own party, or bad of those in your opposition A trait, I must add, you do not generally fall into.

    I have a lot of time for someone who quietly does charity work, which you only find out about after you have known them for a while. I get concerned about people who, when you first meet them, shout: "I DO ALL THIS GOOD WORK!"

    (Again, not including you in that.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,878

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs

    Hang on though, wasn't Khan found guilty by a jury?
    Juries can get it wrong. Cf the Birmingham Six

    Reading Blunt's statement he feels something very bad happened en route to this trial

    "I was prepared to testify about the truly extraordinary sequence of events that has resulted in Imran being put through this nightmare"

    Now, I have no idea if he has some insider info. Or he is just an angry gay Tory MP misguidedly protesting the conviction of another gay Tory MP

    But Blunt is entitled to his view
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,290
    FT praising Johnson:

    FT View: It has been a long time since Britain had a foreign-policy success. Boris Johnson’s trip to Kyiv should be seen as marking one...

    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1513615430681653249
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:

    “My overriding memory of Imran is him piping up: is there no chance we could threaten to close the straits of Denmark as a negotiating position? The Spad there wrote it down and made a note to never trust this man with anything ever again,” the MP said. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/11/imran-ahmad-khan-tory-mp-in-sexual-assault-case-had-oddball-reputation?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I don't understand that and I strongly suspect you don't either, you just thought you'd C&P it because that's what you do best.

    Feel free to humiliate me by explaining.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Strange article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/11/melenchon-fans-in-his-paris-bastion-weigh-up-their-options

    The theme is in the title - Melanchon voters weighing up what to do, not quite sure. But every single one of the Melanchon voters interviewed says that of COURSE they'll now vote for Macron. I'm used to journalists deciding their theme before they do the interviews, but this is really extreme.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,733
    edited April 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Philadelphia reimposes indoor mask mandate, first major U.S. city to do so
    https://twitter.com/medriva/status/1513579838342377473

    Weirdly I thought the omicron wave was sharply declining in the states?
    Edit - worldometers supports that view.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    I just don't have words to describe this:

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/5093174/russian-soldier-rapes-baby-ukraine-war-arrested/

    SEND MORE WEPONS, SEND THEM NOW, AND KEEP SENDING THEM
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,733
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs

    Hang on though, wasn't Khan found guilty by a jury?
    Juries can get it wrong. Cf the Birmingham Six

    Reading Blunt's statement he feels something very bad happened en route to this trial

    "I was prepared to testify about the truly extraordinary sequence of events that has resulted in Imran being put through this nightmare"

    Now, I have no idea if he has some insider info. Or he is just an angry gay Tory MP misguidedly protesting the conviction of another gay Tory MP

    But Blunt is entitled to his view
    He is, but I’d question if tonight is the time to air it.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Philadelphia reimposes indoor mask mandate, first major U.S. city to do so
    https://twitter.com/medriva/status/1513579838342377473

    Weirdly I thought the omicron wave was sharply declining in the states?
    Thay are being hit with the Omicron BA2 Sub-Variant, at them moment, I think
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I'm normally a defender of MPs. My instinctive belief is that they are by and large above-average humans doing a difficult job. But good grief they seem determined to test this belief. A greater proportion than you would expect seem to be distinctly flawed or distinctly weird or both.

    There are aspects to this. I'd like to think of myself as fairly (not abnormally) intelligent, fairly open-minded, and fairly open to new ideas. Which is why I'm on PB. ;) I'm also *amazingly* attractive, and can surpass Gimpo (*) in the bedroom department.

    I'd like to think I'd make a good MP. I don't have a particular love of money, and no particular ideology (aside from a general feeling of let people be what they want to be, as long as they do not hurt others.)

    But there is no way I'd ever become an MP. And for that reason I have an instinctive admiration for those who put themselves forward for the role. But I do fear that it does attract an above-average proportion of ner-do-wells on either side of the political divide. It's a power thing.

    (*) Of KLF fame.
    In some ways I'd love to contribute to politics, now that I actually know stuff & have some knowledge and experience to offer. But I'd hate the effect on my family and, frankly, it's all hypothetical because (a) I can barely find a party to vote for let alone represent and (b) there is NFW any party would take a bolshie woman like me.

    I could almost certainly be more useful elsewhere.

    When I studied politics at university the students were roughly divided into those who took it seriously and went into politics (they were all weird in some way and some you'd cross the road to avoid so odd were they) and others who were just interested in it intellectually. Whenever I see politicians trying to show how like us they are, I always remember the weird loons from uni days and go ..... hmmm....

    Not sure how we get better ones. But on the day that David Amess's murderer is convicted, it is worth remembering that many MPs are, however odd they may be, in it to serve the public.

    May the poor man rest in peace and his family find some consolation in justice finally having been done.
    Which is why I've always said I quite admire those who stand to be an MP, of whatever party. I wouldn't want myself - or my family - put through that scrutiny. And I don't have anything particularly to hide (and I believe the same for my family).

    However, I do think that power can attract both angels and demons, and politics is, in a way, the ultimate power. I can see why politics might appeal to ner-do-wells, as much as it does to the angels.

    I'd also add that IME at uni the lawyers were the weird loons. Even worse than architects (fx: shudders at mentioning the word...) And I say that as someone who studied engineering... ;)
    I know it seems odd, but what struck me in Parliament was how normal almost everyone was. OK, I have my quirky streaks, but my colleagues in all parties were mostly more like everyone else that I knew outside politics. Many were a bit taken aback to be there at all (it was 1997 so lots of us hadn't expected to win) but we settled down and had fun in the early years with a sense of achievement at getting in and helping what we felt was a good cause.

    Unusually interested in politics, obviously, some drinkers, and the usual mix of good, bad and so-so home lives, but very few actual weirdos.
    I can see that. But the problem is that both the angels and demons can hide themselves well. I bet no-one in parliament - not a single one of his colleagues of whatever party - knew about Imran Khan's crimes. It would not surprise me if none had any idea of his predilections.

    This is made worse by two factors: even demons can do good acts, especially if the acts self-serve their own interests. A classic example being Jimmy Saville's charity works. And the fact that partisanship means it is easy to think good of people in your own party, or bad of those in your opposition A trait, I must add, you do not generally fall into.

    I have a lot of time for someone who quietly does charity work, which you only find out about after you have known them for a while. I get concerned about people who, when you first meet them, shout: "I DO ALL THIS GOOD WORK!"

    (Again, not including you in that.)
    Sure (and thank you) - I wouldn't claim to know much about most of my former colleagues' private lives. Everyone scooted back to their constituencies on Thursday night, and Mon-Thur I was too busy to socialise much.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs

    Hang on though, wasn't Khan found guilty by a jury?
    Yes. Wilberforce thought owning slaves overseas was wrong, though legal. Is Blunt saying that 15 year olds are fair game, despite being not legal? Not saying that's an untenable position, 15 y.o. me was having sex with greater-than-15 y.o.s and not feeling exploited then or now, but it's a brave position for him to be taking. Or is he saying that the evidence was wrong and this is a miscarriage of justice under existing law?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,733
    BigRich said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Philadelphia reimposes indoor mask mandate, first major U.S. city to do so
    https://twitter.com/medriva/status/1513579838342377473

    Weirdly I thought the omicron wave was sharply declining in the states?
    Thay are being hit with the Omicron BA2 Sub-Variant, at them moment, I think
    No sign on worldometers though. A very local outbreak?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,274
    edited April 2022

    Strange article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/11/melenchon-fans-in-his-paris-bastion-weigh-up-their-options

    The theme is in the title - Melanchon voters weighing up what to do, not quite sure. But every single one of the Melanchon voters interviewed says that of COURSE they'll now vote for Macron. I'm used to journalists deciding their theme before they do the interviews, but this is really extreme.

    I am fascinated by the inability of Sarkozy’s old party to grasp almost this whole agenda, but have no historic link to Nazis, and in fact link themselves to DeGaul. There’s clearly a French desire to vote some some of this agenda, just probably not from her.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,878

    Leon said:

    Best dinner yet.

    I decided to stay at my hotel to eat. Well.. I didn’t really decide; I fell asleep after my beer earlier and woke up to not many options nearby. I was just in time to get into the hotel restaurant. I had to go for the set menu which worked out rather well.

    Started with beef carpaccio, onions and capers. The main course was mackerel and another white fish (the lovely Italian waitress and I couldn’t work out what it’s called in English even with the help of our phones) with black rice and a creamy mustard sauce. Dessert (which I’m still eating!) is a sort of chocolate granola with roasted pear, a rich chocolate mousse and mascarpone. I’ve been washing it all down with a rather splendid bottle of local Roussillon white.





    That looks like an excellent dinner

    Beef carpaccio, red onions and capers. Mmm. Deliciously simple

    Not sure about creamy mustard sauce AND mackerel? Two strong flavours there. But if it works it works!
    The mustard flavour wasn’t overpowering at all. Just enough to notice it.
    Looks like mackerel with mustard is definitely a thing!

    https://www.tracklements.co.uk/recipes/a-recipe-by-mark-hix-grilled-mackerel-with-tracklements-robust-wholegrain-mustard/

    Lots of recipes. My suspicions are dispelled. Now I want to try it
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,841
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs

    Hang on though, wasn't Khan found guilty by a jury?
    Juries can get it wrong. Cf the Birmingham Six

    Reading Blunt's statement he feels something very bad happened en route to this trial

    "I was prepared to testify about the truly extraordinary sequence of events that has resulted in Imran being put through this nightmare"

    Now, I have no idea if he has some insider info. Or he is just an angry gay Tory MP misguidedly protesting the conviction of another gay Tory MP

    But Blunt is entitled to his view
    Of course, but as others have said, it would have been good to hear some solid basis for his confidence that there has been a miscarriage of justice.

    If Blunt feels he can only provide details at a later appropriate point, a more measured statement at this time would have been better.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    biggles said:

    Strange article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/11/melenchon-fans-in-his-paris-bastion-weigh-up-their-options

    The theme is in the title - Melanchon voters weighing up what to do, not quite sure. But every single one of the Melanchon voters interviewed says that of COURSE they'll now vote for Macron. I'm used to journalists deciding their theme before they do the interviews, but this is really extreme.

    I am fascinated by the inability of Sarkozy’s old party to grasp almost this whole agenda, but have no historic link to Nazis, and in fact link themselves to DeGaul. There’s clearly a French desire to vote some some of this agenda, just probably not from her.
    But you can't persuade DeStriker not to think about DeGaul.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Best dinner yet.

    I decided to stay at my hotel to eat. Well.. I didn’t really decide; I fell asleep after my beer earlier and woke up to not many options nearby. I was just in time to get into the hotel restaurant. I had to go for the set menu which worked out rather well.

    Started with beef carpaccio, onions and capers. The main course was mackerel and another white fish (the lovely Italian waitress and I couldn’t work out what it’s called in English even with the help of our phones) with black rice and a creamy mustard sauce. Dessert (which I’m still eating!) is a sort of chocolate granola with roasted pear, a rich chocolate mousse and mascarpone. I’ve been washing it all down with a rather splendid bottle of local Roussillon white.





    That looks like an excellent dinner

    Beef carpaccio, red onions and capers. Mmm. Deliciously simple

    Not sure about creamy mustard sauce AND mackerel? Two strong flavours there. But if it works it works!
    The mustard flavour wasn’t overpowering at all. Just enough to notice it.
    Do you mind if I ask which hotel you're staying at?

    I promise not to fly over and stalk you. I just love details

    You're in Banyuls, yes?
    I don’t mind at all! And you’d have to be quick to stalk me - I’m leaving first thing tomorrow and haven’t decided exactly where I’m headed yet.

    It’s called the Le Catalan, and yes in Banyuls. Its restaurant is Le Miradou.

    This is the hotel website https://www.hlecatalan.com/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,118
    IshmaelZ said:

    Feel free to humiliate me by explaining.

    The blue text is a link. If you click on it, a whole other web page opens and you can read about it...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Best dinner yet.

    I decided to stay at my hotel to eat. Well.. I didn’t really decide; I fell asleep after my beer earlier and woke up to not many options nearby. I was just in time to get into the hotel restaurant. I had to go for the set menu which worked out rather well.

    Started with beef carpaccio, onions and capers. The main course was mackerel and another white fish (the lovely Italian waitress and I couldn’t work out what it’s called in English even with the help of our phones) with black rice and a creamy mustard sauce. Dessert (which I’m still eating!) is a sort of chocolate granola with roasted pear, a rich chocolate mousse and mascarpone. I’ve been washing it all down with a rather splendid bottle of local Roussillon white.





    That looks like an excellent dinner

    Beef carpaccio, red onions and capers. Mmm. Deliciously simple

    Not sure about creamy mustard sauce AND mackerel? Two strong flavours there. But if it works it works!
    The mustard flavour wasn’t overpowering at all. Just enough to notice it.
    Looks like mackerel with mustard is definitely a thing!

    https://www.tracklements.co.uk/recipes/a-recipe-by-mark-hix-grilled-mackerel-with-tracklements-robust-wholegrain-mustard/

    Lots of recipes. My suspicions are dispelled. Now I want to try it
    Mackerel n horseradish is, rightly, a classic combo
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,878
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs

    Hang on though, wasn't Khan found guilty by a jury?
    Yes. Wilberforce thought owning slaves overseas was wrong, though legal. Is Blunt saying that 15 year olds are fair game, despite being not legal? Not saying that's an untenable position, 15 y.o. me was having sex with greater-than-15 y.o.s and not feeling exploited then or now, but it's a brave position for him to be taking. Or is he saying that the evidence was wrong and this is a miscarriage of justice under existing law?
    My reading of this is that Blunt (who does seem to have some serious knowledge of the case) feels that there might be a conspiracy at work, to bring down a gay Muslim MP (not a hard thing to do)

    Again I have zero idea if Blunt is right, or wrong, or whatever. Presumably there will be an appeal and hopefully it will all be aired

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,841
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs

    Hang on though, wasn't Khan found guilty by a jury?
    Yes. Wilberforce thought owning slaves overseas was wrong, though legal. Is Blunt saying that 15 year olds are fair game, despite being not legal? Not saying that's an untenable position, 15 y.o. me was having sex with greater-than-15 y.o.s and not feeling exploited then or now, but it's a brave position for him to be taking. Or is he saying that the evidence was wrong and this is a miscarriage of justice under existing law?
    The latter: he is "utterly appalled and distraught at the dreadful miscarriage of justice"
  • glwglw Posts: 9,971

    No sign on worldometers though. A very local outbreak?

    Quite possibly, the US has had very large regional variations compared to the UK.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,274
    edited April 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    biggles said:

    Strange article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/11/melenchon-fans-in-his-paris-bastion-weigh-up-their-options

    The theme is in the title - Melanchon voters weighing up what to do, not quite sure. But every single one of the Melanchon voters interviewed says that of COURSE they'll now vote for Macron. I'm used to journalists deciding their theme before they do the interviews, but this is really extreme.

    I am fascinated by the inability of Sarkozy’s old party to grasp almost this whole agenda, but have no historic link to Nazis, and in fact link themselves to DeGaul. There’s clearly a French desire to vote some some of this agenda, just probably not from her.
    But you can't persuade DeStriker not to think about DeGaul.
    That’s a really weird typo. Im blaming autocorrect. I have no evidence but it’s 2022 so I just have to say it lots, and with increasing volume, and it becomes true.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    BigRich said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Philadelphia reimposes indoor mask mandate, first major U.S. city to do so
    https://twitter.com/medriva/status/1513579838342377473

    Weirdly I thought the omicron wave was sharply declining in the states?
    Thay are being hit with the Omicron BA2 Sub-Variant, at them moment, I think
    No sign on worldometers though. A very local outbreak?
    I think its hitting different areas at defend times, some are still on the down slop of BA1, other the up slop of BA2 and yet others on the down slop on BA2, all of which are offsetting each other.

    The NYT state coved tracker is useful if you want to follow it: states Varey form +66% to -70% in a fortnight, but have little correlation to the rules in force in those states.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    From a Northern perspective, London extends to somewhere around Northampton.

    Which is written in jest, but just about sums up the self-congratulatory ignorance many PBers have of London.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IF it is proven Russia has just used chem weapons, then eeeeek


    "Ukraine: Nato will respond if Russia uses chemical weapons, warns Biden"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60870771

    WW3. Brace

    What do you mean *if it is proven*? You sound like Jeremy Corbyn. :wink:
    It is in Ukraine's interest to get the West evermore deeply involved in this war

    AND this is the Azov Battalion reporting this, AIUI (not the nicest people)

    So there is very good reason to be cautious. That said, I can well believe this has happened, the Russians in Donbas were urging on this precise tactic this morning, to be used against the last hold-outs in Mariupol. No one has denied those reports

    Therefore I fear this is likely true. We shall see
    I was always a little sceptical about the use of chemical weapons in Syria, for those reasons. For the rebels proven chemical weapons use was gold dust, as it gets the west involved. I don’t know enough to say that this is bollocks, which it probably is. The Russians seem capable of anything right now.
    It's not just that the Russians have escaped any bounds of morality, it's also that the use of Nuke/Bio/Chem weapons is in their interest

    It strikes fear
    It wins battles
    It might cause Ukraine to surrender, or make a painful peace
    It goads the west, which Putin wants, so he can then turn this disastrous war into something existential
    It makes Russia the centre of attention, the country that must be supplicated


    If you have abandoned any scruple, as Putin seems to have done, then this is entirely logical. What does he have to lose? We will not launch nukes at him, pre-emptively
    Frankly it is time to take the gloves off. Anti-ship missiles and Migs to Ukraine. Europe needs to massively cut the gas too. Forecast for the Russian economy contraction this year now 11%. That's nowhere near enough. We should be aiming for 20-30%.
    Time to sink the Black Sea Fleet?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,023

    Andy_JS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We need to think about a Le Pen presidency
    France’s far-right candidate could still defeat Macron, plunging Nato and the EU into turmoil
    Gideon Rachman" [via google search]

    https://www.ft.com/content/f1c99456-84b1-4193-b058-f72d0f738849

    Clickbait. There has only ever been one winner of this election. Any statement to the contrary is to drive likes and/or traffic.
    Okay. Ignore the polls that show an average of 52/48.
    Wouldn't you have to be somewhat selective to get polls 'that show an average of 52/48'? What average do all the 2nd round polls from say 1st April provide?
    No, it's not selective, although since I posted my comment a poll has been published with 55/45 which has improved Macron's position slightly.

    Average last 20 polls:

    Macron 52.75%
    Le Pen 47.25%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_French_presidential_election#Macron_vs._Le_Pen
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,878

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Best dinner yet.

    I decided to stay at my hotel to eat. Well.. I didn’t really decide; I fell asleep after my beer earlier and woke up to not many options nearby. I was just in time to get into the hotel restaurant. I had to go for the set menu which worked out rather well.

    Started with beef carpaccio, onions and capers. The main course was mackerel and another white fish (the lovely Italian waitress and I couldn’t work out what it’s called in English even with the help of our phones) with black rice and a creamy mustard sauce. Dessert (which I’m still eating!) is a sort of chocolate granola with roasted pear, a rich chocolate mousse and mascarpone. I’ve been washing it all down with a rather splendid bottle of local Roussillon white.





    That looks like an excellent dinner

    Beef carpaccio, red onions and capers. Mmm. Deliciously simple

    Not sure about creamy mustard sauce AND mackerel? Two strong flavours there. But if it works it works!
    The mustard flavour wasn’t overpowering at all. Just enough to notice it.
    Do you mind if I ask which hotel you're staying at?

    I promise not to fly over and stalk you. I just love details

    You're in Banyuls, yes?
    I don’t mind at all! And you’d have to be quick to stalk me - I’m leaving first thing tomorrow and haven’t decided exactly where I’m headed yet.

    It’s called the Le Catalan, and yes in Banyuls. Its restaurant is Le Miradou.

    This is the hotel website https://www.hlecatalan.com/
    Nicely done.

    Checking TripAdvisor I see it has the "traveller's choice" mark, and they are often really reliable - it means you will get something good, whatever the price bracket. And the punters love the restaurant in the feedback

    I know nearby Collioure really well. We used to have weird family holidays there when I was but a lad. I loved the swim to the castle
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,975

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IF it is proven Russia has just used chem weapons, then eeeeek


    "Ukraine: Nato will respond if Russia uses chemical weapons, warns Biden"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60870771

    WW3. Brace

    What do you mean *if it is proven*? You sound like Jeremy Corbyn. :wink:
    It is in Ukraine's interest to get the West evermore deeply involved in this war

    AND this is the Azov Battalion reporting this, AIUI (not the nicest people)

    So there is very good reason to be cautious. That said, I can well believe this has happened, the Russians in Donbas were urging on this precise tactic this morning, to be used against the last hold-outs in Mariupol. No one has denied those reports

    Therefore I fear this is likely true. We shall see
    I was always a little sceptical about the use of chemical weapons in Syria, for those reasons. For the rebels proven chemical weapons use was gold dust, as it gets the west involved. I don’t know enough to say that this is bollocks, which it probably is. The Russians seem capable of anything right now.
    It's not just that the Russians have escaped any bounds of morality, it's also that the use of Nuke/Bio/Chem weapons is in their interest

    It strikes fear
    It wins battles
    It might cause Ukraine to surrender, or make a painful peace
    It goads the west, which Putin wants, so he can then turn this disastrous war into something existential
    It makes Russia the centre of attention, the country that must be supplicated


    If you have abandoned any scruple, as Putin seems to have done, then this is entirely logical. What does he have to lose? We will not launch nukes at him, pre-emptively
    Frankly it is time to take the gloves off. Anti-ship missiles and Migs to Ukraine. Europe needs to massively cut the gas too. Forecast for the Russian economy contraction this year now 11%. That's nowhere near enough. We should be aiming for 20-30%.
    Time to sink the Black Sea Fleet?
    No. But we should certainly be providing weapons to stop Russia blockading Odessa.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,425
    The news at 10 about violence against women in Ukraine is utterly horrific.

    The people doing this are savages.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IF it is proven Russia has just used chem weapons, then eeeeek


    "Ukraine: Nato will respond if Russia uses chemical weapons, warns Biden"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60870771

    WW3. Brace

    What do you mean *if it is proven*? You sound like Jeremy Corbyn. :wink:
    It is in Ukraine's interest to get the West evermore deeply involved in this war

    AND this is the Azov Battalion reporting this, AIUI (not the nicest people)

    So there is very good reason to be cautious. That said, I can well believe this has happened, the Russians in Donbas were urging on this precise tactic this morning, to be used against the last hold-outs in Mariupol. No one has denied those reports

    Therefore I fear this is likely true. We shall see
    I was always a little sceptical about the use of chemical weapons in Syria, for those reasons. For the rebels proven chemical weapons use was gold dust, as it gets the west involved. I don’t know enough to say that this is bollocks, which it probably is. The Russians seem capable of anything right now.
    It's not just that the Russians have escaped any bounds of morality, it's also that the use of Nuke/Bio/Chem weapons is in their interest

    It strikes fear
    It wins battles
    It might cause Ukraine to surrender, or make a painful peace
    It goads the west, which Putin wants, so he can then turn this disastrous war into something existential
    It makes Russia the centre of attention, the country that must be supplicated


    If you have abandoned any scruple, as Putin seems to have done, then this is entirely logical. What does he have to lose? We will not launch nukes at him, pre-emptively
    Frankly it is time to take the gloves off. Anti-ship missiles and Migs to Ukraine. Europe needs to massively cut the gas too. Forecast for the Russian economy contraction this year now 11%. That's nowhere near enough. We should be aiming for 20-30%.
    Time to sink the Black Sea Fleet?
    No. But we should certainly be providing weapons to stop Russia blockading Odessa.
    Amounts to much the same thing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,637
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Best dinner yet.

    I decided to stay at my hotel to eat. Well.. I didn’t really decide; I fell asleep after my beer earlier and woke up to not many options nearby. I was just in time to get into the hotel restaurant. I had to go for the set menu which worked out rather well.

    Started with beef carpaccio, onions and capers. The main course was mackerel and another white fish (the lovely Italian waitress and I couldn’t work out what it’s called in English even with the help of our phones) with black rice and a creamy mustard sauce. Dessert (which I’m still eating!) is a sort of chocolate granola with roasted pear, a rich chocolate mousse and mascarpone. I’ve been washing it all down with a rather splendid bottle of local Roussillon white.





    That looks like an excellent dinner

    Beef carpaccio, red onions and capers. Mmm. Deliciously simple

    Not sure about creamy mustard sauce AND mackerel? Two strong flavours there. But if it works it works!
    The mustard flavour wasn’t overpowering at all. Just enough to notice it.
    Looks like mackerel with mustard is definitely a thing!

    https://www.tracklements.co.uk/recipes/a-recipe-by-mark-hix-grilled-mackerel-with-tracklements-robust-wholegrain-mustard/

    Lots of recipes. My suspicions are dispelled. Now I want to try it
    Mackerel n horseradish is, rightly, a classic combo
    I've had mackerel and mustard sauce. Probably the logic is that the mustard, or horseradish, cut the oily fleshiness.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,274
    Cyclefree said:

    The news at 10 about violence against women in Ukraine is utterly horrific.

    The people doing this are savages.

    I feel helpless. Intellectually I know why the UK can’t do much more than it is doing, but emotionally when you see some of this stuff and the hint of chemical weapons? It’s tempting to say “sod it”.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,878
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Best dinner yet.

    I decided to stay at my hotel to eat. Well.. I didn’t really decide; I fell asleep after my beer earlier and woke up to not many options nearby. I was just in time to get into the hotel restaurant. I had to go for the set menu which worked out rather well.

    Started with beef carpaccio, onions and capers. The main course was mackerel and another white fish (the lovely Italian waitress and I couldn’t work out what it’s called in English even with the help of our phones) with black rice and a creamy mustard sauce. Dessert (which I’m still eating!) is a sort of chocolate granola with roasted pear, a rich chocolate mousse and mascarpone. I’ve been washing it all down with a rather splendid bottle of local Roussillon white.





    That looks like an excellent dinner

    Beef carpaccio, red onions and capers. Mmm. Deliciously simple

    Not sure about creamy mustard sauce AND mackerel? Two strong flavours there. But if it works it works!
    The mustard flavour wasn’t overpowering at all. Just enough to notice it.
    Looks like mackerel with mustard is definitely a thing!

    https://www.tracklements.co.uk/recipes/a-recipe-by-mark-hix-grilled-mackerel-with-tracklements-robust-wholegrain-mustard/

    Lots of recipes. My suspicions are dispelled. Now I want to try it
    Mackerel n horseradish is, rightly, a classic combo
    I've had mackerel and mustard sauce. Probably the logic is that the mustard, or horseradish, cut the oily fleshiness.
    Yes, the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Like gravadlax: oily salmon with dill and mustard. Delicious. It works

    I am idiot!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,290
    Olga Tokariuk
    @olgatokariuk
    ·
    1h
    The only source reporting this so far is the Azov regiment. No independent/credible journalists are working in Mariupol now, so very difficult to verify. There were a lot of warnings earlier over Russia's potential use of chemical weapons in Ukraine

    https://twitter.com/olgatokariuk/status/1513602545025011715
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs

    Hang on though, wasn't Khan found guilty by a jury?
    Yes. Wilberforce thought owning slaves overseas was wrong, though legal. Is Blunt saying that 15 year olds are fair game, despite being not legal? Not saying that's an untenable position, 15 y.o. me was having sex with greater-than-15 y.o.s and not feeling exploited then or now, but it's a brave position for him to be taking. Or is he saying that the evidence was wrong and this is a miscarriage of justice under existing law?
    The latter: he is "utterly appalled and distraught at the dreadful miscarriage of justice"
    Sure but I don't see what the point being made is

    "I sat through some of the trial. The conduct of this case relied on lazy tropes about LGBT+ people that we might have thought we had put behind us decades ago."

    What is the lazy trope? That LBGT Muslims are capable of trying to seduce 15 year olds of the same sex as them, when actually that is inherently impossible? It may be that the complainant is in fact a liar, but I don't see that believing what he says is evidence of being anti gay or anti Muslim
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Philadelphia reimposes indoor mask mandate, first major U.S. city to do so
    https://twitter.com/medriva/status/1513579838342377473

    Weirdly I thought the omicron wave was sharply declining in the states?
    Edit - worldometers supports that view.
    BA.2 is taking over.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Feel free to humiliate me by explaining.

    The blue text is a link. If you click on it, a whole other web page opens and you can read about it...
    Steering clear of actual exposition, then. Your decision of course.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,733
    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Philadelphia reimposes indoor mask mandate, first major U.S. city to do so
    https://twitter.com/medriva/status/1513579838342377473

    Weirdly I thought the omicron wave was sharply declining in the states?
    Edit - worldometers supports that view.
    BA.2 is taking over.
    Maybe, but not much evidence in the case rates, or that masks will make any difference.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,580
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IF it is proven Russia has just used chem weapons, then eeeeek


    "Ukraine: Nato will respond if Russia uses chemical weapons, warns Biden"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60870771

    WW3. Brace

    What do you mean *if it is proven*? You sound like Jeremy Corbyn. :wink:
    It is in Ukraine's interest to get the West evermore deeply involved in this war

    AND this is the Azov Battalion reporting this, AIUI (not the nicest people)

    So there is very good reason to be cautious. That said, I can well believe this has happened, the Russians in Donbas were urging on this precise tactic this morning, to be used against the last hold-outs in Mariupol. No one has denied those reports

    Therefore I fear this is likely true. We shall see
    I was always a little sceptical about the use of chemical weapons in Syria, for those reasons. For the rebels proven chemical weapons use was gold dust, as it gets the west involved. I don’t know enough to say that this is bollocks, which it probably is. The Russians seem capable of anything right now.
    It's not just that the Russians have escaped any bounds of morality, it's also that the use of Nuke/Bio/Chem weapons is in their interest

    It strikes fear
    It wins battles
    It might cause Ukraine to surrender, or make a painful peace
    It goads the west, which Putin wants, so he can then turn this disastrous war into something existential
    It makes Russia the centre of attention, the country that must be supplicated


    If you have abandoned any scruple, as Putin seems to have done, then this is entirely logical. What does he have to lose? We will not launch nukes at him, pre-emptively
    Frankly it is time to take the gloves off. Anti-ship missiles and Migs to Ukraine. Europe needs to massively cut the gas too. Forecast for the Russian economy contraction this year now 11%. That's nowhere near enough. We should be aiming for 20-30%.
    Time to sink the Black Sea Fleet?
    No. But we should certainly be providing weapons to stop Russia blockading Odessa.
    Amounts to much the same thing.
    Hypothetically, how would you go about doing that? Air launched anti-ship missiles?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,290
    Cyclefree said:

    The news at 10 about violence against women in Ukraine is utterly horrific.

    The people doing this are savages.

    They are way worse than that.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,409
    Ok are we even going to see a by-election in Wakefield? Reading the facts of the case, it doesn’t quite seem imprisonable, certainly if it’s a first offence.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2022
    Crispin Blunt, in a hole, digging:

    Crispin Blunt MP attended the defence and summing up of Imran Ahmad Khan's trial.

    He was not present to see any of the prosecution witnesses. The victim and his parents broke down in tears on several occasions when giving evidence about the assault and the impact it's had.


    https://twitter.com/harry_horton/status/1513623057771937799

    Can’t see how he keeps the whip without withdrawing this.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1513625015895441413

    I am utterly appalled and distraught at the dreadful miscarriage of justice that has befallen my friend and colleague Imran Ahmad Khan, MP for Wakefield since December 2019. His conviction today is nothing short of an international scandal, with dreadful wider implications for millions of LGBT+ muslims around the world.

    I sat through some of the trial. The conduct of this case relied on lazy tropes about LGBT+ people that we might have thought we had put behind us decades ago.

    As a former Justice Minister I was prepared to testify about the truly extraordinary sequence of events that has resulted in Imran being put through this nightmare start to his Parliamentary career.

    I hope for the return of Imran Ahmad Khan to the public service that has exemplified his life to date. Any other outcome will be a stain on our reputation for justice, and an appalling own goal by Britain as we try to take a lead in reversing the Victorian era prejudice that still disfigures too much of the global statute book.


    https://www.blunt4reigate.com/news/statement-conviction-imran-ahmad-khan-mp

    https://twitter.com/CrispinBlunt/status/1513603624164859918
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,975
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IF it is proven Russia has just used chem weapons, then eeeeek


    "Ukraine: Nato will respond if Russia uses chemical weapons, warns Biden"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60870771

    WW3. Brace

    What do you mean *if it is proven*? You sound like Jeremy Corbyn. :wink:
    It is in Ukraine's interest to get the West evermore deeply involved in this war

    AND this is the Azov Battalion reporting this, AIUI (not the nicest people)

    So there is very good reason to be cautious. That said, I can well believe this has happened, the Russians in Donbas were urging on this precise tactic this morning, to be used against the last hold-outs in Mariupol. No one has denied those reports

    Therefore I fear this is likely true. We shall see
    I was always a little sceptical about the use of chemical weapons in Syria, for those reasons. For the rebels proven chemical weapons use was gold dust, as it gets the west involved. I don’t know enough to say that this is bollocks, which it probably is. The Russians seem capable of anything right now.
    It's not just that the Russians have escaped any bounds of morality, it's also that the use of Nuke/Bio/Chem weapons is in their interest

    It strikes fear
    It wins battles
    It might cause Ukraine to surrender, or make a painful peace
    It goads the west, which Putin wants, so he can then turn this disastrous war into something existential
    It makes Russia the centre of attention, the country that must be supplicated


    If you have abandoned any scruple, as Putin seems to have done, then this is entirely logical. What does he have to lose? We will not launch nukes at him, pre-emptively
    Frankly it is time to take the gloves off. Anti-ship missiles and Migs to Ukraine. Europe needs to massively cut the gas too. Forecast for the Russian economy contraction this year now 11%. That's nowhere near enough. We should be aiming for 20-30%.
    Time to sink the Black Sea Fleet?
    No. But we should certainly be providing weapons to stop Russia blockading Odessa.
    Amounts to much the same thing.
    I think NATO sinking the entire Black Sea Fleet would be seen as direct military engagement with Russia, no?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,637

    Crispin Blunt, in a hole, digging:

    Crispin Blunt MP attended the defence and summing up of Imran Ahmad Khan's trial.

    He was not present to see any of the prosecution witnesses. The victim and his parents broke down in tears on several occasions when giving evidence about the assault and the impact it's had.


    https://twitter.com/harry_horton/status/1513623057771937799

    Can’t see how he keeps the whip without withdrawing this.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1513625015895441413

    I am utterly appalled and distraught at the dreadful miscarriage of justice that has befallen my friend and colleague Imran Ahmad Khan, MP for Wakefield since December 2019. His conviction today is nothing short of an international scandal, with dreadful wider implications for millions of LGBT+ muslims around the world.

    I sat through some of the trial. The conduct of this case relied on lazy tropes about LGBT+ people that we might have thought we had put behind us decades ago.

    As a former Justice Minister I was prepared to testify about the truly extraordinary sequence of events that has resulted in Imran being put through this nightmare start to his Parliamentary career.

    I hope for the return of Imran Ahmad Khan to the public service that has exemplified his life to date. Any other outcome will be a stain on our reputation for justice, and an appalling own goal by Britain as we try to take a lead in reversing the Victorian era prejudice that still disfigures too much of the global statute book.


    https://www.blunt4reigate.com/news/statement-conviction-imran-ahmad-khan-mp

    https://twitter.com/CrispinBlunt/status/1513603624164859918

    What's he trying to do, hit the Mohorovičić discontinuity?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,409
    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,274

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IF it is proven Russia has just used chem weapons, then eeeeek


    "Ukraine: Nato will respond if Russia uses chemical weapons, warns Biden"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60870771

    WW3. Brace

    What do you mean *if it is proven*? You sound like Jeremy Corbyn. :wink:
    It is in Ukraine's interest to get the West evermore deeply involved in this war

    AND this is the Azov Battalion reporting this, AIUI (not the nicest people)

    So there is very good reason to be cautious. That said, I can well believe this has happened, the Russians in Donbas were urging on this precise tactic this morning, to be used against the last hold-outs in Mariupol. No one has denied those reports

    Therefore I fear this is likely true. We shall see
    I was always a little sceptical about the use of chemical weapons in Syria, for those reasons. For the rebels proven chemical weapons use was gold dust, as it gets the west involved. I don’t know enough to say that this is bollocks, which it probably is. The Russians seem capable of anything right now.
    It's not just that the Russians have escaped any bounds of morality, it's also that the use of Nuke/Bio/Chem weapons is in their interest

    It strikes fear
    It wins battles
    It might cause Ukraine to surrender, or make a painful peace
    It goads the west, which Putin wants, so he can then turn this disastrous war into something existential
    It makes Russia the centre of attention, the country that must be supplicated


    If you have abandoned any scruple, as Putin seems to have done, then this is entirely logical. What does he have to lose? We will not launch nukes at him, pre-emptively
    Frankly it is time to take the gloves off. Anti-ship missiles and Migs to Ukraine. Europe needs to massively cut the gas too. Forecast for the Russian economy contraction this year now 11%. That's nowhere near enough. We should be aiming for 20-30%.
    Time to sink the Black Sea Fleet?
    No. But we should certainly be providing weapons to stop Russia blockading Odessa.
    Amounts to much the same thing.
    Hypothetically, how would you go about doing that? Air launched anti-ship missiles?
    I was surprised it wasn’t mined to buggery in the run up to the invasion. Or maybe it was, and they just had no way to interdict the mine sweepers.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,733

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    I’m not calling for him to be punished, I just don’t think he’s helping tonight.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,409

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    I’m not calling for him to be punished, I just don’t think he’s helping tonight.
    Yeah I was talking about Montie’s call to withdraw the whip.
  • Let’s do the sensible thing.

    If a Labour MP defended a convicted MP there would be outrage.

    And there was, when Webbe was given a reference by Corbyn.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,744
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Whatever the truth of the matter, Tim Montgomerie is well out of order

    If Blunt thinks there has been a miscarriage of justice, let him say so, and campaign for it to be reversed. That is not a sin, let alone a crime. What is this "withdraw the whip" nonsense?

    People are allowed to find convictions unsafe, in their own eyes - especially MPs, who have the power to change minds. The Birmingham Six were wrongly convicted, and MPs campaigned to have that reversed, and they were rightly successful, in the end
    There's history there. Blunt kick started the downfall of IDS, Monty's great patron.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/may/01/conservatives.uk
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,335
    edited April 2022

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
    He is entitled to his view in a free country, just the jury took a different one with its verdict
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Philadelphia reimposes indoor mask mandate, first major U.S. city to do so
    https://twitter.com/medriva/status/1513579838342377473

    Weirdly I thought the omicron wave was sharply declining in the states?
    Edit - worldometers supports that view.
    BA.2 is taking over.
    Maybe, but not much evidence in the case rates, or that masks will make any difference.
    Having just had covid (I assume BA2) my sense was that people STILL don’t understand the changed rules here, almost certainly because of the shiteness of government comms. It’s all - rightly - now symptoms based. If you feel poorly, stay in, otherwise carry on as normal. But lots of people don’t seem to grasp this.

    In any case, I’m glad I was late to covid and thus in the no-restrictions era, because it was all over in three and a half days, a moderate cold followed by a day (but only a day) of weird exhaustion. Then gone. No issues with destroyed taste or unstoppable coughs.

    Is BA2 much different to any other Omicron strain?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,587

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what is going on here?


    "Withdraw the whip from Blunt. Immediately."

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1513612487530274823?s=20&t=oRkoBAuSoQ5ojgsP0WMvXQ


    I genuinely have no idea. Is there some query over this conviction?!

    Golly

    Doesn't seem to appreciate that 15 years old is off limits irrespective of orientation
    Crispin Blunt doesn't strike me as a nutter, however. Eccentric but principled? He is saying this is an outrageous miscarriage of justice

    What a mess. Who knows
    He’d be better off keeping his thoughts to himself and helping his friend in private. It does no one favours for politicians to cast doubt on convictions in this way.
    Absolutely not. The job of an MP is to take a stand where they believe it matters, surely? Otherwise they are just lobby-fodder. You might as well elect 650 versions of GPT3 to approve of anything the government does

    British history is littered with examples of individual MPs who went against the grain and eventually won, even if others found them shrill, annoying or uncomfortable

    This dates from the origins of the English Civil War through to Wilberforce helping to Abolish Slavery

    If Blunt feels this way - and he claims he sat through some of the trial (which is more than anyone here did) - let him say what he likes (within the law), loud and clear

    I would argue this is morally right whatever the cause, even if it is one I disagree with. It's like jury trials. I detested that acquittal of the statue-topplers, but I had to accept it. That's how juries work. Ditto MPs
    I dislike a categorical statement of a miscarriage of justice without enough detail to allow me to come to a view as to whether I agree. It reminds me of the protestations made in defence of various convicted criminals by members of their family - it feels as though the defence is because of his friendship with the individual and not the facts of the case.

    But we'll see. The appeal will no doubt be made and the details reported.

    There's quite a long tradition of MPs supporting campaigns related to miscarriages of justice, but not normally involving the conviction of a fellow MP.
    I have to agree with Leon here - he has a right to express the opinion if he genuinely believes there has been a miscarriage of justice, and the idea of withdrawing the whip just for that is absurd.

    He may well prove deeply misguided - and his constituency party, or his constituents, have the opportunity to deliver their own verdict in due course.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,409

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
    Perhaps a crazy comparator, but was Chris Mullins sending a terrible message when he campaigned for the Birmingham 6?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,409

    Let’s do the sensible thing.

    If a Labour MP defended a convicted MP there would be outrage.

    And there was, when Webbe was given a reference by Corbyn.

    The evidence presented in the Webbe case was more cut and dried.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    HYUFD said:

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
    He was not convicted at the time, until a verdict is given then there should be no problem whatsoever in character references from those who know the accused in any civilised legal system
    It's a response to the verdict:
    Statement on the Conviction of Imran Ahmad Khan MP

    https://www.blunt4reigate.com/news/statement-conviction-imran-ahmad-khan-mp
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,637
    HYUFD said:

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
    He was not convicted at the time, until a verdict is given then there should be no problem whatsoever in character references from those who know the accused in any civilised legal system
    Mr Blunt didn't give a character reference as a witness in the trial, so "character reference" is not relevant.

    Also, to condemn the trial before the conviction as a travesty etc. would be contempt, whether in court or outside, so your logic doesn't make sense.
  • Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
    Perhaps a crazy comparator, but was Chris Mullins sending a terrible message when he campaigned for the Birmingham 6?
    Desperate rather than crazy, GW.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,409

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
    Perhaps a crazy comparator, but was Chris Mullins sending a terrible message when he campaigned for the Birmingham 6?
    Desperate rather than crazy, GW.
    Desperate?
    I don’t know Imran Khan from Adam.

    Indeed, the fact that he’s a Brexity Tory MP disposes me to think he’s thick as fuck and not suited to public life.

    I just think it’s weird that Crispin Blunt (another person I am minded to despise) apparently can’t express an opinion on the case.

    I may have missed some very pertinent detail here.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,637
    HYUFD said:

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
    He is entitled to his view in a free country, just the jury took a different one with its verdict
    There has been too much blather, to put it mildly, in this supposedly free country from the Tories on the courts giving wrong decisions = decisions they don't like in recent years. So you should not be surprised by people becoming sensitive to Tory MPs saying straight off like that that conviction x, whether in a judge or jury trial, is dud.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,335
    edited April 2022
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
    He is entitled to his view in a free country, just the jury took a different one with its verdict
    There has been too much blather, to put it mildly, in this supposedly free country from the Tories on the courts giving wrong decisions = decisions they don't like in recent years. So you should not be surprised by people becoming sensitive to Tory MPs saying straight off like that that conviction x, whether in a judge or jury trial, is dud.
    In a free country you have the right to disagree with the legal judgement of a judge on the law or the verdict of a jury on the facts in a court of law.

    However you also have to accept that is the court's and the law's decision on the outcome unless an appeal is successful
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,587
    Cyclefree said:

    The news at 10 about violence against women in Ukraine is utterly horrific.

    The people doing this are savages.

    I’m afraid it’s been clear for some time that widespread atrocities have been committed, for which their leaders are fully responsible.
    Brutality towards men women and children, and mass murder, are deliberate policy.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,007

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
    Perhaps a crazy comparator, but was Chris Mullins sending a terrible message when he campaigned for the Birmingham 6?
    He was an admirable MP (even though I disagreed with his political views) and a very nice man. I vaguely recall he had a very small cameo role as a vicar in the tv adaption of one of his books.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,290
    edited April 2022

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Philadelphia reimposes indoor mask mandate, first major U.S. city to do so
    https://twitter.com/medriva/status/1513579838342377473

    Weirdly I thought the omicron wave was sharply declining in the states?
    Edit - worldometers supports that view.
    BA.2 is taking over.
    Maybe, but not much evidence in the case rates, or that masks will make any difference.
    Having just had covid (I assume BA2) my sense was that people STILL don’t understand the changed rules here, almost certainly because of the shiteness of government comms. It’s all - rightly - now symptoms based. If you feel poorly, stay in, otherwise carry on as normal. But lots of people don’t seem to grasp this.

    In any case, I’m glad I was late to covid and thus in the no-restrictions era, because it was all over in three and a half days, a moderate cold followed by a day (but only a day) of weird exhaustion. Then gone. No issues with destroyed taste or unstoppable coughs.

    Is BA2 much different to any other Omicron strain?
    I had a look at the NHS guidance rules today as an acquaintance came down with the plague and we debated on txt what was going to happen.

    The text is appalling. At the end of reading it I had no better idea of what someone who has symptoms or tests + should do. In fact, I had less idea. It is all over the place: stay at home, carry on, don't stay at home, keep away from vulnerables, but you can carry on as normal if you don't feel unwell, you might isolate for five days, then again perhaps it should be ten and so on and on.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I’ve stayed a member of the APPG on Global LGBT Rights against my better judgment mainly because I was determined not to be bullied out as a gender critical lesbian but chair Crispin Blunt’s statement tonight is the last straw. I’ll be resigning tomorrow....

    Some politicians really need to learn they cannot substitute their own judgment for that of the verdict of a jury who have heard all the evidence.


    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1513633869429358597
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,841

    Let’s do the sensible thing.

    If a Labour MP defended a convicted MP there would be outrage.

    And there was, when Webbe was given a reference by Corbyn.

    The evidence presented in the Webbe case was more cut and dried.
    Were you at both trials? If not, how can you be sure?

    At both trials a jury listened to all the evidence and found the defendants guilty. Absent a successful appeal or a mistrial, I don't see how we can decide that one trial had 'better' evidence than the other.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2022
    Crispin Blunt’s statement defending Imran Khan is leading to a mass resignation from the APPG on LGBT which he chairs - including @RhonddaBryant @StewartMcDonald and @joannaccherry

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1513636441770897416
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,274

    Crispin Blunt’s statement defending Imran Khan is leading to a mass resignation from the APPG on LGBT which he chairs - including @RhonddaBryant @StewartMcDonald and @joannaccherry

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1513636441770897416

    Worth saying that APPGs are a complete irrelevance. I’m sure you know that but just saying, because folk do confuse them with Select Committees.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,274
    edited April 2022

    Let’s do the sensible thing.

    If a Labour MP defended a convicted MP there would be outrage.

    And there was, when Webbe was given a reference by Corbyn.

    The evidence presented in the Webbe case was more cut and dried.
    Were you at both trials? If not, how can you be sure?

    At both trials a jury listened to all the evidence and found the defendants guilty. Absent a successful appeal or a mistrial, I don't see how we can decide that one trial had 'better' evidence than the other.
    Yup. Not for any of us to judge. He was found guilty by a jury of his peers. The Court of appeal will or will not be persuaded to take another look, but there’s checks and balances in place.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    biggles said:

    Crispin Blunt’s statement defending Imran Khan is leading to a mass resignation from the APPG on LGBT which he chairs - including @RhonddaBryant @StewartMcDonald and @joannaccherry

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1513636441770897416

    Worth saying that APPGs are a complete irrelevance. I’m sure you know that but just saying, because folk do confuse them with Select Committees.
    Be interesting to see who else resigns:

    https://www.appglgbt.org/members
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651

    Crispin Blunt’s statement defending Imran Khan is leading to a mass resignation from the APPG on LGBT which he chairs - including @RhonddaBryant @StewartMcDonald and @joannaccherry

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1513636441770897416

    Couldn't they rather seek to eject him as Chair? APPGs are pretty loose are they not?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,274
    edited April 2022

    biggles said:

    Crispin Blunt’s statement defending Imran Khan is leading to a mass resignation from the APPG on LGBT which he chairs - including @RhonddaBryant @StewartMcDonald and @joannaccherry

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1513636441770897416

    Worth saying that APPGs are a complete irrelevance. I’m sure you know that but just saying, because folk do confuse them with Select Committees.
    Be interesting to see who else resigns:

    https://www.appglgbt.org/members
    I would have lost money betting against Peter Bottomley being a member. Blimey.

    Edit - By which I mean good on him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,335
    edited April 2022
    Representative of Macron's campaign on Newsnight 'We have done a lot for this working class'

    How ungrateful they are!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Crispin Blunt’s statement defending Imran Khan is leading to a mass resignation from the APPG on LGBT which he chairs - including @RhonddaBryant @StewartMcDonald and @joannaccherry

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1513636441770897416

    Worth saying that APPGs are a complete irrelevance. I’m sure you know that but just saying, because folk do confuse them with Select Committees.
    Be interesting to see who else resigns:

    https://www.appglgbt.org/members
    I would have lost money betting against Peter Bottomley being a member. Blimey.

    Edit - By which I mean good on him.
    Maybe he just joins anything. I seem to recall a story about him joining a new APPG, which was vital because they are required to have cross party support and he was the only non Labour figure.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,663
    HYUFD said:

    Representative of Macron's campaign on Newsnight 'We have done a lot for this working class'

    Hpw ungrateful they are!

    I get that edgy Tories are gagging for Le Pen to win but not every banal statement from the Macron camp needs to be fisked.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,335
    edited April 2022
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Representative of Macron's campaign on Newsnight 'We have done a lot for this working class'

    Hpw ungrateful they are!

    I get that edgy Tories are gagging for Le Pen to win but not every banal statement from the Macron camp needs to be fisked.
    It was more the way she said 'this working class' rather than 'the working class'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651
    edited April 2022

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    The jury sat through a trial & passed judgement on Imran Ahmad Khan. This is an intervention from a law-maker defending a convicted child sex offender.

    Aside from anything else, it sends a terrible message to any victim yet to get justice in the UK - of which there are many


    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1513614205974466566
    Perhaps a crazy comparator, but was Chris Mullins sending a terrible message when he campaigned for the Birmingham 6?
    I think people are overreacting a tad, since I think others are right you are allowed to comment particularly as courts and juries are not infallible, so the more strident commentary doesn't quite hit the mark for me.

    How he has commented, so fulsomely and without setting out any particulars of why he feels that way about from rather vague allusions, is more problematic than that he has commented at all, as it makes it look like just angrily defending a mate rather than some identification of a procedural or legal flaw in the case or of its evidence.
  • Do the Tories care about CoL?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,476

    Crispin Blunt may be an idiot, but I think we should be very careful about punishing people who speak out for others, even if such speaking out seems v daft.

    Well the police certainly shouldn't be involved. But he can be judged for his words.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,274

    Do the Tories care about CoL?

    Who is Colin?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,409
    I see the mass resignations, so perhaps I am missing an important detail here.

    I’ll wait to see what emerges before I comment further.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    NEW: statement from the Conservative party on Crispin Blunt’s defence of Imran Ahmad Khan;

    “A jury of Mr Khan's peers has found him guilty of a criminal offence. We completely reject any allegations of impropriety against our independent judiciary, the jury or Mr Khan's victim.”


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1513640164366639107
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651
    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Representative of Macron's campaign on Newsnight 'We have done a lot for this working class'

    Hpw ungrateful they are!

    I get that edgy Tories are gagging for Le Pen to win but not every banal statement from the Macron camp needs to be fisked.
    It was more the way she said 'this working class' rather than 'the working class'.
    That's a lot to put on a single word.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,580
    @trussliz

    Reports that Russian forces may have used chemical agents in an attack on the people of Mariupol. We are working urgently with partners to verify details.

    Any use of such weapons would be a callous escalation in this conflict and we will hold Putin and his regime to account.


    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1513636563405713416
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651

    NEW: statement from the Conservative party on Crispin Blunt’s defence of Imran Ahmad Khan;

    “A jury of Mr Khan's peers has found him guilty of a criminal offence. We completely reject any allegations of impropriety against our independent judiciary, the jury or Mr Khan's victim.”


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1513640164366639107

    Well, sometimes they have a problem with the independent judiciary.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,290

    Tom Wenseleers
    @TWenseleers
    ·
    1h
    Nice thread on the new Omicron subvariants BA.4 & BA.5, originating in South Africa (Gauteng Province). Some of the mutations present, including L452R in the spike protein (which was present in Delta, but absent in Omicron BA.1+2), could confer a slight immune escape advantage.

    https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1513619229010018314
  • kle4 said:

    NEW: statement from the Conservative party on Crispin Blunt’s defence of Imran Ahmad Khan;

    “A jury of Mr Khan's peers has found him guilty of a criminal offence. We completely reject any allegations of impropriety against our independent judiciary, the jury or Mr Khan's victim.”


    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1513640164366639107

    Well, sometimes they have a problem with the independent judiciary.
    Often they do
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,651

    @trussliz

    Reports that Russian forces may have used chemical agents in an attack on the people of Mariupol. We are working urgently with partners to verify details.

    Any use of such weapons would be a callous escalation in this conflict and we will hold Putin and his regime to account.


    https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1513636563405713416

    If the reports are true it certainly won't stop the 'Russia would know that would lead to a response, they wouldn't be that stupid' kind of denial. Even though the Russian authorities provably could be that stupid. It's like how some people refuse to accept Russia's involvement in the Salisbury poisonings, because it was bungled, as though Russia hit squads are faultless.

    With so much of the world watching and analysing Ukraine I would think you could not hide such an event for long, even if you can ensure allies and the sympathetic like India to play along.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,739
    Keir Starmer in April 2019: "Climate change is the issue of our time, and as Extinction Rebellion protest showed us this week, the next generation are not going to forgive us if we don't take action. There's been lots of talk, now we need action"

    Keir Starmer today. Motorists were already being hammered by prices at the pump, and now millions can’t even access fuel. The government must immediately impose injunctions to put a stop to this disruption.

    What a complete idiot
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Philadelphia reimposes indoor mask mandate, first major U.S. city to do so
    https://twitter.com/medriva/status/1513579838342377473

    Weirdly I thought the omicron wave was sharply declining in the states?
    Edit - worldometers supports that view.
    BA.2 is taking over.
    Maybe, but not much evidence in the case rates, or that masks will make any difference.
    Having just had covid (I assume BA2) my sense was that people STILL don’t understand the changed rules here, almost certainly because of the shiteness of government comms. It’s all - rightly - now symptoms based. If you feel poorly, stay in, otherwise carry on as normal. But lots of people don’t seem to grasp this.

    In any case, I’m glad I was late to covid and thus in the no-restrictions era, because it was all over in three and a half days, a moderate cold followed by a day (but only a day) of weird exhaustion. Then gone. No issues with destroyed taste or unstoppable coughs.

    Is BA2 much different to any other Omicron strain?
    I had a look at the NHS guidance rules today as an acquaintance came down with the plague and we debated on txt what was going to happen.

    The text is appalling. At the end of reading it I had no better idea of what someone who has symptoms or tests + should do. In fact, I had less idea. It is all over the place: stay at home, carry on, don't stay at home, keep away from vulnerables, but you can carry on as normal if you don't feel unwell, you might isolate for five days, then again perhaps it should be ten and so on and on.

    Like most Omicron cases mine was mild, and a friend who is 80 has tested positive with no symptoms at all. On the other hand, a friend aged 50 was just able to stay out of hospital, and was in bed for 2 weeks feeling dreadful. He makes the point that the LFT test doesn't tell you what variant you've got - in retrospect he assumes it was Delta, which he's heard is on the rise again (is that correct?).
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